Joe Rogan Experience #1861 - Dave Mustaine

1. 0:00 – 4:18

   Catching up on martial arts roots: Benny “The Jet” and the old kickboxing era

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Open up, come on. Dave, what's happening? How are you?

   3. DMDave Mustaine0:15

      Here we are finally, yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      I'm excited to talk to you, man. You've had a wild ride for a life.

   5. DMDave Mustaine0:20

      I have. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      (laughs) You really have. I love people like you.

   7. DMDave Mustaine0:22

      But always kept my hands on the wheel.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      Yeah. No, you, well, you, obviously, you're here, right?

   9. DMDave Mustaine0:27

      Yes, sir.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Yeah. And, what a fucking wi- wild ride though. I mean, everything. Your religious background, the, the, the, being in the first Metallica. I mean, it's pretty wild. What is it like, like looking back, does it seem, I, I mean, be- being a part of Megadeth and being a part of Metallica, like you're rock royalty.

   11. DMDave Mustaine0:52

       Thanks, thanks. I, uh, I, you know, uh, first off, thanks for having me on, to all your listeners.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       My pleasure.

   13. DMDave Mustaine0:57

       And it's, uh, it's, uh, uh, I'm stoked to be here. And, uh, um, yeah, what was, what was it like? Uh, there's, there's so much to explain. Of course, you, you know, being in showbiz, that there's different degrees of, of, you know, how excited you can get. And then, if you have one of those days and it's like, "Ah, shit, it'll never be better than this." And then, you know, keep working hard, you keep applying yourself, associating with the right people, and, uh, there's always gonna be another level. My sensei, uh, out in California, used to train with Sensei Benny "The Jet" Urquidez. And he would say-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       One of the all-time greats.

   15. DMDave Mustaine1:30

       Yeah, yeah. That's my first-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       I love that guy.

   17. DMDave Mustaine1:31

       ... my first black belt came from Sensei Benny. Yeah, and-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       That's amazing.

   19. DMDave Mustaine1:34

       ... yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       Were you at the Jet Center?

   21. DMDave Mustaine1:35

       Yeah, I was in ... I, I'm number 17, so-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       When I went to California, that was one of the first places I went to. I wanted to go to The Comedy Store-

   23. DMDave Mustaine1:41

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       ... and I wanted to go to the Jet Center.

   25. DMDave Mustaine1:43

       That got ruined in the earthquake in-

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       Yeah, I was there right afterwards.

   27. DMDave Mustaine1:47

       ... at Northridge. Oh, that's right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       And when the rains came-

   29. DMDave Mustaine1:48

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       ... the, the roof was all fucked up, and they wound up having to close the place down.
2. 4:18 – 11:14

   Bloodsport, kumite myths, and pre-UFC “who would win?” speculation

   1. DMDave Mustaine4:18

      uh, I, I, I guess he's had a lot of fights like that. I heard that the, the story about Frank Dux was actually about Sensei Benny too. Did you ever hear about that one?

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:26

      No, well the Frank Dux thing was kind of a hoax, right? Like, he'd claimed to be a part of some-

   3. DMDave Mustaine4:32

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:32

      ... kumite that was proven to not really happen. Is that r- what, what was-

   5. DMDave Mustaine4:37

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:37

      ... the exact story?

   7. DMDave Mustaine4:38

      Okay. So, uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:39

      Because I know they tried to make it into Bloodsport, right?

   9. DMDave Mustaine4:42

      They did. Uh-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:42

       Yeah.

   11. DMDave Mustaine4:42

       ... but it's not true.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:43

       But they tried to-

   13. DMDave Mustaine4:44

       So, well, from, from what I know, this is, this is what I know, uh, what I was told, so I don't know how accurate this is. But I heard from the people who participated in this whole thing, so... What had happened was, uh, the movie with Jean-Claude Van Damme, and, um, Frank Dux, uh, I was told that, uh, Frank Dux wasn't the guy who had actually, uh, been the fighter in that, and that it was Benny "The Jet" Urquidez. And that when, um, he had come home or something, he had his school in the Los Angeles area, Simi Valley area, somewhere like that. And, uh, uh, Sensei Ruben, uh, Benny's older brother, and, uh, Sensei, uh, Arnold, his other brother. He had nine brothers and sisters, they were all black belts.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Oh. (laughs)

   15. DMDave Mustaine5:27

       And, um, his mother was a professional wrestler and his dad was a professional boxer, or vice versa. One was a boxer, one was a wrestler.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       What a terrible house to break into.

   17. DMDave Mustaine5:35

       Oh my God-

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       (laughs)

   19. DMDave Mustaine5:35

       You know, he, he, he, uh, B- uh, Sensei Benny used to tell me that when the kids would get in fights, the dad would say, "Go outside and fight barefoot in the stickers." And, and I thought, wow, that's (laughs) , talk about getting-

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       That's hardcore.

   21. DMDave Mustaine5:45

       ... toughened up. Yeah, 'cause he used to tell me he would get his teeth worked on without any, uh, novocaine, and, and I was saying-

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       Jesus.

   23. DMDave Mustaine5:50

       ... "Cleaning, right?" No, uh, they, they just, yeah. And, and, and so I was, that, I could, couldn't do that. I, I drive past denters- dentist offices and I get freaked out.

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:00

       I know Benny participated in some kind of a mixed rules kumite ty- type situation and I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was in Hawaii. See if you can find that out, Jamie.

   25. DMDave Mustaine6:12

       The, the story with Dux though, when, when Ar- Arnold and, and, uh, Ruben, um, they had gone to Frank Dux's school and they ... Th- this is what the family told me, they walked in, they locked the door, there was a student or two there, they told them, "You need to leave." The students left and they went in the back office of Frank's dojo ... Now this is what I heard, you know, and, and I, and I'm not saying this to draw Frank Dux out of, uh, retirement or anything like that, you know, that, that's, that's just what I heard, um, is that, uh, when Ar- uh, Arnold and Ruben went in there, he, he freaked out and kinda lost control of himself and, and, uh, that they had words and, and fortunately there were no fisticuffs, but that was the story. And, uh, so when I watched it again, it was really neat to think that, you know, Jean-Claude Van Damme was portraying Sensei Benny instead of this other person.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       So I'm confused about the story. So Benny and someone else went to visit Frank Dux?

   27. DMDave Mustaine7:11

       Ruben, Ruben and Arnold went there because it was Benny's story.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:15

       Oh, I see. So Ruben and Arnold went there to confront Frank Dux 'cause Frank Dux had ripped off Benny's story?

   29. DMDave Mustaine7:20

       Right. That's what I was told.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       So this, this is, th- and this is Benny's story that was about the kumite that we'd-
3. 11:14 – 13:03

   From street trouble to training: belts, self-defense, and learning to avoid fights

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:14

      What d- what year did you start martial arts?

   2. DMDave Mustaine11:17

      I was 12.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:18

      Wow.

   4. DMDave Mustaine11:19

      I was 12. I was, uh-

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:20

      So you, you have a black belt in karate, right?

   6. DMDave Mustaine11:23

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:24

      You have a black belt in what else?

   8. DMDave Mustaine11:25

      In Taekwondo, yeah, for two years.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:26

      In TaeKwonDo and you have a purple belt in Jujitsu?

   10. DMDave Mustaine11:29

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:29

       That's-

   12. DMDave Mustaine11:30

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:30

       That's a very impressive resume. That's really amazing.

   14. DMDave Mustaine11:33

       Yeah. I've, I've managed to be really smart and stay out of a lot of trouble too, and, and, and those were one of the things that Sensei Benny told me when we first started working together was, you know, "When a guy's coming down the street and he doesn't look like he's your friend, change sides of the street. If he changes sides of the street, turn around." You know? I, I, I don't go looking for trouble anymore. There was a period in my life where, you know, that kinda, uh, m- people, uh, those kind of people and that kinda stuff was, you know, go out, get drunk, cause some problems. We lived down in Huntington Beach, you know, all the surf kids would go down there and fight people from another neighborhood or another school or something stupid like that, but ...

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:10

       A lot of tough guys came from Huntington Beach.That's where-

   16. DMDave Mustaine12:12

       I-

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:12

       ... Tank Abbott came from. That's where, uh, Tito Ortiz came from Huntington Beach.

   18. DMDave Mustaine12:17

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       Just a lot of guys.

   20. DMDave Mustaine12:18

       Yeah. There was a guy there when I went to high school there named Polo. He was a, a, one of a bunch of Samoans that were down there. And I remember, I was at a kegger party one night and, and some guy hit him right in the face with a crowbar, and he did not move.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:32

       (laughs)

   22. DMDave Mustaine12:32

       And I thought, "Oh my God." It was one of those, you know, those hexagonal crowbars, you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       Oh, Jesus Christ.

   24. DMDave Mustaine12:38

       It wasn't like a, like a tire iron-

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:40

       (laughs)

   26. DMDave Mustaine12:40

       ... where you just turn the knobs, and he just whacked him, and I thought, "Somebody's gonna die." (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:46

       Jesus Christ. Yeah, some people can take inhumane punishment. Like, it's, uh, a superhuman, like I've, I've seen Mark Hunt in the early days. Like Crow Cop kicked him in the head. C- Crow Cop kicks people to just go unconscious. Crow Cop kicked him in the head, he just sort of fell down, got right back up, and everybody was like, "How?"

4. 13:03 – 21:43

   MMA evolution and Mark Kerr: early UFC, addiction, and extreme stories

   1. DMDave Mustaine13:03

      Hey, did you ever know a guy named Mark Carr?

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:05

      Mark Carr?

   3. DMDave Mustaine13:06

      They used to call him The Specimen.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:08

      Mark Kerr.

   5. DMDave Mustaine13:09

      Kerr.

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:09

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   7. DMDave Mustaine13:09

      Kerr, Kerr, Kerr, Kerr, Kerr.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:10

      Yes.

   9. DMDave Mustaine13:10

      Mark Kerr, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:11

       Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He was, uh, in the early days of the UFC.

   11. DMDave Mustaine13:14

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:15

       I was at some- a couple of his fights. Definitely one, where he tapped a guy by shoving his chin into his eye socket.

   13. DMDave Mustaine13:22

       Oh, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       He got on top of the guy, and I think it was, uh, Ron Waterson- Ron Waterman? Ron Waterman. He- so Mark Kerr gets on top of him, and he's, like, grabbing the back of his head and he shoves his chin into the guy's eye socket.

   15. DMDave Mustaine13:36

       Oh, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:37

       And the dude taps. I was like, "That- that's effective."

   17. DMDave Mustaine13:40

       He's a big guy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:42

       (laughs) He was huge.

   19. DMDave Mustaine13:42

       Yeah. I- I remember we hung out for a little while and, and, uh, he was staying at my pad in, in Scottsdale.

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       Oh, really?

   21. DMDave Mustaine13:49

       Yeah. There was a time, uh, he was, uh, getting himself, uh, straightened out and, and, you know, um, he knew that I had a history in- got my-

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:58

       Was this after The Smashing Machine documentary?

   23. DMDave Mustaine14:01

       I think so.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:02

       Did you ever see it?

   25. DMDave Mustaine14:03

       I- I heard of it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:04

       The documentary's-

   27. DMDave Mustaine14:05

       And I might have seen some of it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan14:06

       It's wild.

   29. DMDave Mustaine14:07

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:07

       It's wild. It sh- it, it, it t- what they were trying to do... Like, oftentimes in documentaries, like, they'll start following someone with a very specific ad- objective, but then the whole world changes.
5. 21:43 – 28:19

   First guitar at 13: influences, self-teaching, and early songwriting instincts

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:43

      What was the first year you picked up a guitar?

   2. DMDave Mustaine21:45

      I was 13.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:46

      Oh. So right around the ti- same time you-

   4. DMDave Mustaine21:48

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:48

      ... first started doing martial arts?

   6. DMDave Mustaine21:49

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:50

      And what, like back then, what was the music that you were into? Like, what did you listen to?

   8. DMDave Mustaine21:54

      When I was 13, I had a very limited musical, uh, um, library. My sisters listened to a lot of Motown, my brother-in-laws listened to a lot of the, uh, uh, pop stuff that was in America at the time, Frankie Valli, and, and you know, Paul Revere & the Raiders and stuff. This is when I'm just a little kid.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:12

      Right.

   10. DMDave Mustaine22:12

       So it's, you know, Gary Puck and The Union Gap, and you know, all those old bands. Um, and it wasn't until my youngest sister, who's, uh, a little bit older than me started dating, um, that I got exposed to a little bit harder music. And, and that started with a little bit of, um, Deep Purple, and then, uh, Mott the Hoople, and a little bit of some David Bowie, and then we discovered KISS and, and Ted Nugent.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:38

       (laughs)

   12. DMDave Mustaine22:38

       And, uh, the other one was, uh... KISS, Ted Nugent, who was the other band back then? Led Zeppelin. Those three. Yeah, that made all the difference in the world for me with the guitar.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       And so when you first started getting into the guitar-

   14. DMDave Mustaine22:50

       (coughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:50

       ... were you taking any lessons? Or were you trying to learn on your own?

   16. DMDave Mustaine22:54

       I'm self-taught, so-

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:55

       Oh.

   18. DMDave Mustaine22:55

       ... I, I, um, you know, I tried to do the lesson thing. Uh, I even tried it again, you know, a few years ago, and, and the guy that was trying to explain it to me, uh, he made it more confusing for me than-

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:10

       (laughs)

   20. DMDave Mustaine23:10

       ... than, you know, going into it. So I mean, for some people, lessons are, are, I think for most people, lessons are important. But if you've, if you've already figured out how to do it, don't unfigure it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:21

       Yeah. Right. Like it, what I would imagine, like applying a system, like a, the, the system of notes to something that you've sort of intuitively picked up.

   22. DMDave Mustaine23:30

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:31

       Like, did you just, you figured out what sounds it makes while you're moving your fingers in different positions, and then you mimic the sounds you heard in albums? Like, how does one how to t- learn how to teach themselves how to play the guitar?

   24. DMDave Mustaine23:44

       I, I started with an acoustic and was plunking around a little bit on that. My sister played piano, and Joe, she was so awful.

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:49

       (laughs)

   26. DMDave Mustaine23:50

       It, it, I mean, uh, the music coming out of our apartment sounded like two cats having sex. And, and I, all I know is that, uh, there was an acoustic guitar there, and I thought, "I, I need to make some noise to drown out what she's doing." And, uh, so that started it. And she liked Cat Stevens. Uh, we had a music book of the Anthology for The Beatles, which is another huge band for me with my songwriting, because of the weird chord structures. They have moving bass note that, uh, you know, the chord will say- stay the same and the bass will move, or vice versa, the bass will stay the same and the chord will move. So not a lot of movement happens, but it seems like a lot's going on in the songs. And then besides, uh, Elton John, Bowie was, uh, Cat Stevens. I don't know if I said that or not, but he was a huge pop success back in the day, you know. Um-

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:35

       Yeah.

   28. DMDave Mustaine24:36

       ... part of that whole hippie movement, and, and, uh, he actually went back to Afghanistan and, and changed his name back to Yusef Islam, I think.

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:44

       Yeah.

   30. DMDave Mustaine24:45

       And, um, boy, he had a beautiful voice. That's one thing for sure.
6. 28:19 – 38:35

   Rock’s drug culture then vs. now: management, enabling, and staying alive

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:19

      "Sit down. Don't write that down. Don't say that." You know, it just... Back then... Do you think that the, the drug and alcohol thing is the same today in music? Or do you think it's less? Do you think it's just not promoted by the... I mean, h- what do you think the difference is between the influence of drugs and alcohol in the early days versus now?

   2. DMDave Mustaine28:43

      Well, I think, I think in the early days of the music business, uh, first off, the drugs weren't as strong. And, um, you know, they didn't have, uh, like, for example, something as simple as, uh, you know, the, the marijuana that, that I used to smoke when I was a kid versus what's, uh, being manufactured and grown nowadays is quite different. And, uh, I think that the stigmatism for people about smoking is, uh, less. And I, I think that, um, there's a lot of, uh, n- other things that people use out on the road to, to cope with things that could be dealt with, with, you know, good management, good, good support system, um. And, and most importantly, you know, having somebody who's gonna tell you the truth. You know, I'm, I'm a grown-up, I'm a big boy, so when, when I, I have stuff happening in my career and, um, it could have been avoided or, or somebody didn't tell me and I find out later, that sucks.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:37

      Yeah.

   4. DMDave Mustaine29:37

      You know? And, and for a lot of people when that stuff happens, they respond in a negative way with, um, you know, uh, either self-sabotage or, or, you know, they medicate themselves. And, and I remember back when I was drinking, um, you know, I, I... There was a thing someone said at one of those meetings and I thought it was kinda clever. The guy said, "You know, I drank when my team won and I drank when my team lost, and I drank when my team played, and I drank when my team was in the off season."

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      (laughs)

   6. DMDave Mustaine30:02

      And I thought, "All right. Well, that's, that's about me. Uh, what team were we not rooting for anymore?" So...

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      (laughs)

   8. DMDave Mustaine30:07

      But, you know, there's, there's so many reasons why people, um, make it or don't make it in the music business. And I think, much like yourself, uh, you know, and I... Getting to know each other earlier this afternoon, um, you know, you, you have to take care of yourself. You really, really do. And, and there's so many things in, in the music industry that, that, um, you know, the, the history, the, uh, the, the people that you're working with. You know, a lot of people don't wanna say anything bad about somebody but, I mean, imagine how much better things would be if somebody really said, "You know what? Th- uh, he's a nice guy, but he stole from us." Or, "You know, this guy is... He- he's good at this, but he's terrible at that." You know? Everybody's so afraid to offend anybody with, with, uh, stuff like that. But yet, you know, in other areas of life, offending people doesn't mean shit. You know? So we, we've had some times when we've had some people on our, on our, uh, crew and, um-... uh, tours that we've been on. The last tour we were on, not my band, but another band, their bus drove right up to the Canadian border and the driver got out and left them all sitting there.

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:11

      (laughs) Why?

   10. DMDave Mustaine31:13

       So yeah, it's the music business.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:14

       Why did he do that?

   12. DMDave Mustaine31:14

       Because he had a DUI or something like that, and you can't get up into Canada, so...

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       Oh my God, that's hilarious. (laughs)

   14. DMDave Mustaine31:18

       You know, it's so convoluted, all this stuff. But see, like, back in the day, you know, uh, back in the '60s or '70s when I was talking about, you know, different eras, different messes, different managers, you know, managers used to manage the mess. They don't manage the mess anymore. They don't wanna tolerate that shit, 'cause there's always somebody around the corner that's ready to work harder than you.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       Mm-hmm.

   16. DMDave Mustaine31:36

       It's like that motivational thing that Arnold said, long time, "Somebody's out there getting stronger, running farther," you know, all that stuff. I love those motivational tapes.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, someone is out there doing it. And if you do fuck up and you wanna just take Xanax all day and, and, and do coke and you don't write new music, someone's gonna come along.

   18. DMDave Mustaine31:56

       They are.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:56

       And unfortunately, everybody... But that, but that's... Isn't that a part of, like, the whole rock and roll mystique? A part of the whole mystique was the guy who did crazy drugs and was kinda half out of it, but would go on stage and be brilliant.

   20. DMDave Mustaine32:09

       Sometimes. You know, that's-

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       Yeah.

   22. DMDave Mustaine32:10

       And Keith Moon, you know, yeah, that's, that worked for Keith. But I think that's... You know, a player like Keith is so all over the place, you know, he doesn't have a song with a pattern.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:19

       Right.

   24. DMDave Mustaine32:19

       So it's just go out there and, and just hit everything. Um, there, I, I know of a lot of musicians that, that, um, will drink when they play. I, I know a lot that don't. Um, I don't know very many anymore that do drugs. Um, that's just something that's been kinda, kinda-

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:36

       Phased out?

   26. DMDave Mustaine32:38

       Yeah. Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:38

       Just because the impact it has on your body?

   28. DMDave Mustaine32:40

       Well, not only that, but the, the things that it makes the people do and, and the kinda people that are around that. I think that, you know-

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:47

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DMDave Mustaine32:48

       ... like, again, like I was saying, herb is less of a stigmatism, so people are a little bit more open with that.
7. 38:35 – 43:45

   Tour reality: “Book of Lies,” 72-week runs, and being young in Metallica

   1. DMDave Mustaine38:35

      They call the tour books The Big Lie, too. So, speaking of touring... (laughs)

   2. JRJoe Rogan38:39

      The tour books?

   3. DMDave Mustaine38:40

      Yeah, when you're out on tour, you know, you get these, these, uh, itineraries. And, and, um, I don't know when you travel if you, uh, go for long stints at a time or not, or if, if, uh, the UFC, when they travel, if they, uh, go for long stints at a time. But when we go, we usually have, uh, an itinerary, which is our, our little book, and we call it the Book of Lies because-

   4. JRJoe Rogan38:59

      (laughs)

   5. DMDave Mustaine38:59

      ... all the information when the tour starts (laughs) is all accurate, but by the time you get out in, uh, to that first date, stuff starts changing.

   6. JRJoe Rogan39:06

      Oh, so you call that the big lie?

   7. DMDave Mustaine39:07

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan39:07

      H- what is the longest time you've ever been on tour for?

   9. DMDave Mustaine39:10

      72 weeks.

   10. JRJoe Rogan39:11

       Oh, my God. (laughs)

   11. DMDave Mustaine39:14

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan39:16

       That had to feel so bizarre when you came off the road after that much time.

   13. DMDave Mustaine39:19

       Yeah. It was back in the day when beds had quarter slots on 'em too, so we, we were, uh, sitting in these cheap hotels and watching WGN all day long. I, I sure learned a lot about the Atlanta Braves during (laughs) that period, but, uh, yeah, it was rough.

   14. JRJoe Rogan39:32

       Quarter slots mean you put a quarter in to pay for the television?

   15. DMDave Mustaine39:35

       No, the bed would vibrate.

   16. JRJoe Rogan39:37

       Oh. Okay.

   17. DMDave Mustaine39:39

       Remember those? That's like m- m- bygone past.

   18. JRJoe Rogan39:41

       Boy, I do remember that, now that you bring it up. I don't think I ever experienced it personally, but I think I saw it in movies or something. Maybe one time when I was a kid they had that. I don't know when-

   19. DMDave Mustaine39:52

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan39:52

       ... they got rid of that, but that was the most bizarre thing.

   21. DMDave Mustaine39:54

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan39:55

       You probably s- (laughs)

   23. DMDave Mustaine39:55

       We stayed at all those nice, fine establishments.

   24. JRJoe Rogan39:58

       (laughs) Is that supposed to enhance sex? You put a quarter in and your bed vibrates?

   25. DMDave Mustaine40:01

       Well, if you're having sex with a bed, I guess.

   26. JRJoe Rogan40:04

       Yeah, I don't understand why that would be a b- a net benefit to have a vibrating bed, but people would pay for it. (laughs)

   27. DMDave Mustaine40:09

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan40:10

       I think everybody forgot about vibrating beds. You might've just revived an industry. (laughs)

   29. DMDave Mustaine40:14

       There you go. (laughs) 'Cause I completely forgot. There it is, Magic Fingers Relaxation com- Service. "For your comfort, this bed is equipped with..." The same.

   30. JRJoe Rogan40:27

       What is it? "The same Magic Fingers?"
8. 43:45 – 51:22

   Leaving Metallica and ownership of riffs: songwriting credit, royalties, and closure

   1. JRJoe Rogan43:45

      Yeah. When you, um, left Metallica, and then when, did you go right into Megadeth? Or did you other... What'd you do right after Metallica?

   2. DMDave Mustaine43:57

      I, I think in my mind I went right into Megadeth, but, um, a- at the time, I, I was still kinda trying to, you know, um, digest everything that took place. Uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan44:09

      Well, you were still only 20.

   4. DMDave Mustaine44:11

      Yeah, yeah. The thing that bothered me the most was I had all my music and I left it behind, and I said, "Don't use my music," and of course they did.

   5. JRJoe Rogan44:19

      Oh, really?

   6. DMDave Mustaine44:19

      Yeah, they used it on the first record, on the second record. There's parts of my music on a song on the third record. All the solos on the first record are mine, except that they're just performed by Kirk. And close, but not the same. You know, he's not a bad guitar player. He, he-

   7. JRJoe Rogan44:33

      Did you get royalties for that?

   8. DMDave Mustaine44:35

      Uh, well, uh, most of them, yeah. But Kirk got my royalties for Metal Militia for many, many years. And, you know, he has to see the check, so I know somebody saw that I wasn't getting paid.

   9. JRJoe Rogan44:46

      So, there's a sadness and bitterness.

   10. DMDave Mustaine44:48

       Not bitterness, I'm-

   11. JRJoe Rogan44:49

       No bitterness?

   12. DMDave Mustaine44:50

       I'm over it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan44:50

       A little upset?

   14. DMDave Mustaine44:51

       You know, my, it's just money, you know? Like you said-

   15. JRJoe Rogan44:53

       Yeah.

   16. DMDave Mustaine44:53

       ... you know, at the end of the day, y- you know, um, my happiness and my family, my wife and my children are more important to me than, than anything in this world. And, and, um, you know, I, I, I love our fans. I, I have so many things in this life that I'm happy about. But man, it's, it's, it's my family, and, and-

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:12

       (sniffs)

   18. DMDave Mustaine45:13

       ... obviously my relationship with God. I, I, I take that very, very personal. And, you know, I don't talk to people about it. I, I don't, I don't push it on them at all. It's my thing. And, and, uh, I just look at it like, where I'm at right now, um, yeah, 20 in Metallica, and now look at me, I'm 60 in Megadeth. And, and-

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:32

       (laughs)

   20. DMDave Mustaine45:32

       ... and I'm a Grammy winner and I'm a New York Times bestselling author. All these things that if, if... You know, I was signing autographs the other day, Joe, and, and I, I, I had these boxes. There was 3,000 jackets I had to sign. And for a moment, I flashed back to elementary school when I was in front of the chalkboard, I swore to God, and I had to write. Did you ever have to do that?

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       Yeah, sure.

   22. DMDave Mustaine45:53

       God. And I don't know what brought that up, but I thought, "Oh my God, I can't even believe that." And, and thinking about, you know, where I'm at now today, and, and, and you know, just how the slightest deviation from where I was going could have ended me up anywhere else in the world. 'Cause I wanted to do so many things. I wanted to be a, uh, professional athlete. I wanted to play baseball. You know, I, I, I thought about... I had a, uh, cousin who was a fighter pilot, and I thought that would be really great too. But, you know...

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       You know, Dave, I think that's the case with a lot of people that wind up becoming successful at things. They could have gone in a bunch of different directions. They just chose to go in this one, but they still have other interests in things. Because I think the type of people that become really successful, like with you playing guitar, is, they are the type of people that can kinda be good at anything. They just have to love that thing.

   24. DMDave Mustaine46:42

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:42

       Like, I'm sure you love playing guitar, which is why you're so good at playing guitar.

   26. DMDave Mustaine46:46

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:46

       If you loved something else as much as you love that, you'd be just as good at that. I think it's an expression of who you are as a person.

   28. DMDave Mustaine46:53

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       And I think that's one of the more unique things about guitar playing to me.

   30. DMDave Mustaine46:57

       Mm-hmm.
9. 51:22 – 59:07

   Jehovah’s Witness upbringing: control, ostracism, and the push to escape

   1. DMDave Mustaine51:22

      I may have when my mom was forcing me to be a Jehovah's Witness, though.

   2. JRJoe Rogan51:25

      Oh.

   3. DMDave Mustaine51:25

      Who knows? I could've put- had velvet everything.

   4. JRJoe Rogan51:28

      What year did that happen?

   5. DMDave Mustaine51:30

      Oh, God, I, uh, I, um ... When I was seven.

   6. JRJoe Rogan51:34

      Seven?

   7. DMDave Mustaine51:35

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan51:35

      So, do you remember a time before the Jehovah's Witness? Do you remember having to join?

   9. DMDave Mustaine51:39

      Barely.

   10. JRJoe Rogan51:40

       Barely?

   11. DMDave Mustaine51:40

       Barely. Um, my mom and dad got divorced when I was four, like I said, so there was a lot of, uh, uh, disruption in our-

   12. JRJoe Rogan51:47

       My friend Kirk Metsger, who's a, uh, fantastic comedian, he, uh, was raised Jehovah's Witness.

   13. DMDave Mustaine51:53

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan51:53

       He has some crazy fucking stories about him.

   15. DMDave Mustaine51:56

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan51:56

       And he managed to escape, and one of the things he said that it's helped him with is like he sees cult-like thinking in like political ideologies. He see- he sees it in like social movements. He's like, "Oh, you're not allowed to question this. No, no, I grew up with this. I know what the fuck this is."

   17. DMDave Mustaine52:12

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan52:12

       "This is- this is a cult. You just don't think it's a cult because you think you're- you're out to do good."

   19. DMDave Mustaine52:17

       Mm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan52:17

       "And so, you're not allowing any discourse or any discussion. You're in a fucking cult."

   21. DMDave Mustaine52:20

       Mm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan52:21

       "You don't know when you're in a cult, but you're in a cult."

   23. DMDave Mustaine52:22

       Mm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan52:23

       It's interesting to hear it from guys like that- it's like people who come from communist countries-

   25. DMDave Mustaine52:26

       Mm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan52:27

       ... that get- become very conservative when they come to America.

   27. DMDave Mustaine52:29

       Mm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan52:30

       Like, they- they don't wanna hear any Marxism talk. "Shut the fuck up."

   29. DMDave Mustaine52:33

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan52:33

       Like, "We grew up in a communist country. Get the fuck outta here with that."
10. 59:07 – 1:23:57

    From occult detours to born-again Christianity: black magic stories and belief debates

    1. DMDave Mustaine59:07

       ... so I had to do like any, uh, normal guy would do. Um, (clears throat) when you get out of one thing that sucks, you do something else to extremes. So, um, w- when, uh, I bailed on the JW thing with my mom, I ran away from home up to Idaho where my sister lived and, and, uh, she was practicing black magic. So, like, I-

    2. JRJoe Rogan59:26

       Whoa.

    3. DMDave Mustaine59:26

       ... I got into black magic. And, uh, I li- she, she, uh, did not practice black, she was doing white, uh, white magic. Uh, but I, I had practiced some black magic, uh, on two people. And, um, it was-

    4. JRJoe Rogan59:37

       What does that mean?

    5. DMDave Mustaine59:39

       Oh, I don't wanna get into it, but, what the, the whole thing is, but, um, you, you, uh, as, as simply said, you know, you have somebody that you don't like and, and, uh, the power of suggestion in your mind, you could, um, say or do something and then, you know, uh, hope and pray that something will take place, uh, that that will even the score, so to speak, you know? Uh, do I believe that if I prayed for your shirt to be white right now that it would happen? Well, if, if, if, you know, the powers that be, you know, uh, the spirits of the universe want things to change, I could be struck blind right now by a white light and-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

       But if he turned my shirt white, I think that'd be a waste of a curse.

    7. DMDave Mustaine1:00:18

       Right.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

       It's really not a bad curse.

    9. DMDave Mustaine1:00:19

       Well, so the curses I did-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

        (laughs)

    11. DMDave Mustaine1:00:20

        ... I did one on one guy that I was at school, and my nephew had told him that I was, uh, practicing Kung Fu Sun Tzu at the time. And, and, um, so he was like the t- uh, the school tough guy. And I, I, it was my first day at school, so he walked past me and sucker punched me in the stomach and I buckled over and I thought, "Oh, all right, here we go. This is gonna suck, this school." So we're going home and the buses are two-bus ride, big bus to a small drop-off, a little bus out to where we lived out in, in the, the rural, uh, area. And, uh, we get off the first bus and everybody circles around, and he's gonna beat me up, and nothing happens. And so I get on the bus and he gets in the bus and he walks out and elbows me in the back of the head when he's getting out, and I had some chewing tobacco in my mouth, so I swallowed it. And I got so sick and I knew I had to do something or it was gonna keep happening. So I put a hex on him that he would get physically injured, and he did. And, and the other hex that I did was a girl in night school we went to in Marina.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

        How did he get physically injured?

    13. DMDave Mustaine1:01:22

        I, I, it, it was just something that had to do with...

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:25

        But do you think, but he sounds like an asshole. Is, guys like that get hurt all the time.

    15. DMDave Mustaine1:01:29

        He did get hurt.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:30

        Yeah, but did, do you think that it, he got hurt because you put a hex on him, or do you think he got hurt because he's an asshole and he's probably doing stupid shit every day? Guys like that always get hurt.

    17. DMDave Mustaine1:01:40

        I think he got hurt because he's an asshole and I put a hex on him.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        Both?... both those things.

    19. DMDave Mustaine1:01:44

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

        What's that? Like, how do you do a hex?

    21. DMDave Mustaine1:01:48

        The whole reason I wouldn't play conjuring anymore was because-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:51

        Right.

    23. DMDave Mustaine1:01:51

        ... it has the instructions on how to do it. So, uh, I don't want anybody to learn how to do this. But I will tell you this much, the, uh, it involved, uh, um, using some food sources and, and making an effigy of sorts-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

        Jesus.

    25. DMDave Mustaine1:02:05

        ... and then, and then, um, you have to, um, you do certain things to identify the doll, you know? And then, um, you, uh, break off a leg or an arm of the doll and, uh, it's basically what he did. I broke the leg off and the guy got in a car crash and his leg got mauled and, and, um-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

        Wow.

    27. DMDave Mustaine1:02:28

        ... you know, this was 45 years ago, so the statute of limitations have expired. But even still-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:32

        I don't think you can get in trouble for hexes.

    29. DMDave Mustaine1:02:35

        Maybe. In the spiritual world, you do. Um-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:37

        Yeah, but I don't think there's a statute of limitations in the spiritual world.

Episode duration: 2:56:31