Joe Rogan Experience #1875 - Dave Smith

1. 0:00 – 1:22

   Intellectual humility & stress-testing libertarian ideas

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

   3. DSDave Smith0:12

      But that's good.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Yeah.

   5. DSDave Smith0:13

      I think that's what makes you so good at what you do.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Yeah, the last thing you wanna do is be like, super confident and wrong. (laughs)

   7. DSDave Smith0:20

      Yeah, right, exactly. You wanna at least be always questioning. Like, always maintaining that possibility. "I could be wrong about everything."

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      When you start... When you, when you go over stuff, like when you talk about like, libertarian ideas, and you, you, you look at like, the way the government is run now, do you, do you run through that thought process, like, "Maybe the only way to do it is the way that we're doing it right now"?

   9. DSDave Smith0:43

      Yeah, I, I try my best to always do that. I mean, I'm guilty of not doing it. But I try my best to always be like, "Okay, well maybe, theoretically, uh, they know something I don't know," which kinda means like, "This is the best way to do it." Or maybe I'm just wrong, and my theoretical model couldn't work, and this is the best. But that... Try to give like, the toughest arguments against it, and then go like, "Okay, but we still didn't need to kill a million Iraqis." You know what I mean?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Oh, yeah.

   11. DSDave Smith1:07

       Like, we still didn't need to do this, or we still at least didn't need a... But I try my best. I use... It's dangerous, 'cause the more, the further into it I get, the more convinced I am that I'm right, and then that's also dangerous. 'Cause I'm not as insecure about it as I used to be.

2. 1:22 – 3:07

   Reforming a broken system: Ron Paul’s “end the worst first” approach

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:22

      It feels like the only way... Like, the system is broken. Everyone sort of agrees that. The... And the only way to do it right would be to create a more ethical, moral, logical system that's actually based on Constitutional rights, and how the government is supposed to be, in terms of like, the kinda power they're supposed to have versus what they're always constantly trying to acquire. But if you did that, how much would you have to blow the system up? And how would we run things? Like, what, what period of vulnerability would we have while we're trying to reestablish a new system? And how would we know if the system could even work correctly without being influenced by money and power, and all the shit that's fucked it up-

   2. DSDave Smith2:07

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:07

      ... for, for what we've got right now?

   4. DSDave Smith2:08

      It's, it's a daunting challenge. I think that... Like, what, what Ron Paul used to always say was basically... I mean, these are my words, not his, but there was... Basically his plan was, he goes, "End all the worst shit first."

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:20

      Hmm.

   6. DSDave Smith2:20

      Like, end all the most evil shit first. So the first thing is like, stop bombing third-world countries.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:26

      Right.

   8. DSDave Smith2:26

      Stop locking people in jail for victimless crimes. Stop doing, like... Stop bailing out-

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:30

      Yeah.

   10. DSDave Smith2:30

       ... billionaires and corporations and stuff.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:32

       Yeah.

   12. DSDave Smith2:32

       Like, stop that first. You know, you don't, you don't start with like, "Well, okay, if there's a vulnerable population that's, like, dependent on this government program, get rid of it tomorrow."

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:40

       Right.

   14. DSDave Smith2:40

       You know, so like, try, you try to do that. And then the more of the corruption that you roll back, you're gonna see le-... You know, like, less wealth being extracted from regular American people and going to special interests, kind of build that up over time. But it's a challenging thing to go ba-... To go from this insane system to something less insane-

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       Right.

   16. DSDave Smith3:00

       ... is tough. And throughout human history, usually it's a... There's a pretty rough period in between there.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       Sure.

   18. DSDave Smith3:06

       It's usually not a smooth transition.

3. 3:07 – 4:03

   From republic to empire—fast: America’s rapid rise and who runs it

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:07

      Well, it's kinda fascinating when you think that this is the only country that has been really established as, like, a colony that went on to take over the world. And it did it inside of 300 years-

   2. DSDave Smith3:20

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      ... which is pretty fucking wild.

   4. DSDave Smith3:22

      Yeah, that's the most wild part, is the time, the time span, 'cause-

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:25

      It's pretty crazy.

   6. DSDave Smith3:26

      'Cause going from being a republic to an empire has happened before, but we're the most powerful empire in world history. At, at, at least in terms of, like, raw power.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:36

      Right.

   8. DSDave Smith3:36

      Like, the, the technology, the level of wealth, all that shit. And we, we did it in a very short time.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:41

      And some of the most unexceptional people are the ones who want to run it, which is so weird. When you see like, the Squad... Did you see that, that debate that she was having with those bankers, where they were talking about eliminating fossil fuels? Uh-

   10. DSDave Smith3:55

       She made me root for the bankers, Joe.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       I was rooting for the bankers.

   12. DSDave Smith3:58

       Ju-... It is quite a feat to get me to say-

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       And also-

   14. DSDave Smith4:01

       ... "You know, I think the head of Goldman Sachs is making a good point."

4. 4:03 – 6:39

   Student loan forgiveness, college costs, and the ‘Ponzi scheme’ critique

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:03

      Imagine that she was dangling the carrot of the $10,000 we gave back in student loan debt forgiveness-

   2. DSDave Smith4:10

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:10

      ... that those people are gonna have bank accounts, and those people that got that free money are gonna take that free money outta your bank account. Like, that was the immediate thing that she dangled, which lets you know some of the incentive involved in giving student loan debt.

   4. DSDave Smith4:25

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:26

      It's not really that we wanna help these people. It's that now we will have influence over those people for voting.

   6. DSDave Smith4:33

      Oh, it... This was clearly like, just throwing a carrot, like pre-mid-term elections.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:36

      Right. So how about, how come only $10,000? How about all of it?

   8. DSDave Smith4:39

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:39

      If you're gonna really absolve student loan debt, if someone's $700,000 in the hole or whatever their... What's like, worst-case scenario if someone goes to med school, someone gets a PhD?

   10. DSDave Smith4:47

       Oh, yeah, if they do all of that, probably 3, 400 at least, probably-

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       Yeah, and then it compounds with interest-

   12. DSDave Smith4:53

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       ... over the decades. Like, I was reading this story about this woman who took out $150,000 in student loans and she hasn't been able to pay them back, and now she's 250,000 in the hole.

   14. DSDave Smith5:02

       Yeah, jeez. And they're the most vicious type of loans, too.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       Of course, 'cause you never pay it back.

   16. DSDave Smith5:05

       Like, it's easier to get out of credit card debt, you know? It's, uh... You can't even get out through bankruptcy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       Oh, it's the only one you can't get out of.

   18. DSDave Smith5:09

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       People are having their Social Security docked, people who've made it to the end of life. They're, they're rel- relying on government assistance, right? It's essentially government assistance that we pay for, and they're getting that docked to pay for student loan debt.

   20. DSDave Smith5:25

       Yeah, it's such a, it's such a fucked-up system. Like, I'm completely against student loan debt, just 'ca-... I, I, uh, um, you know, forgiving the debt, just 'cause I think it's like... It's, it's just... You're just punishing the taxpayers for the, the debt of a, in many cases, a more privileged group. It's like, the, the people who didn't go to college now have to bail out the people who did, you know? But man, it is such a fucked-up system that they trap these 18-year-old kids-

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:52

       It's ruthless.

   22. DSDave Smith5:52

       ... into signing up for... And that no one at the colleges even... Like, the fact... I mean, obviously the politicians are, like, soulless and the bankers are just trying to make money, but that none of... No one in the university...... ever has the, the h- basic human decency to look at one of these kids who goes, "Hey, you know you're spending 150 grand on a gender studies major? Just think about that. Think about whether or not this is really a good idea." They just go, "Oh, okay. We'll take the money."

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:19

       Well, all they're-

   24. DSDave Smith6:19

       "No problem."

   25. JRJoe Rogan6:19

       ... hoping is they're gonna get a job in university.

   26. DSDave Smith6:22

       Right. It's a Ponzi scheme, basically.

   27. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       If you... yeah.

   28. DSDave Smith6:23

       You'll teach this to other people until no one's signing up for this anymore.

   29. JRJoe Rogan6:27

       (laughs)

   30. DSDave Smith6:28

       You'll s- you'll learn useless shit that isn't even true, and then you'll teach it to other people who wanna use- learn this useless shit to teach it to other people. And let's just hope we keep getting new investors into this thing until it all goes belly up.

5. 6:39 – 9:13

   Woke activism in tech, workplace pressure, and the rise of platform censorship

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:39

      And what's really wild is then most, especially tech companies, they're so progressive and so liberal. And they're kind of trapped in that ideology, which can hamper what they want to do and what they're, what they're allowed to do with their company. Because you get activists who are employees. So your employees become ac- And they go straight from universities, where they're indoctrinated into this ideology, and then they permeate these tech companies. And some of 'em are fucked.

   2. DSDave Smith7:09

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:10

      And some of, some of 'em are realizing it and they're pushing back and they go, "Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Stop, stop, stop. You guys are killing our stock. You're fucking up the bus-" Like it's a, it's a giant loss in terms of like whether or not it's good for the overall company. It's a giant loss for some of 'em, like Netflix.

   4. DSDave Smith7:25

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:26

      Netflix took a giant hit after all that Ch- Chappelle shit.

   6. DSDave Smith7:29

      Oh, yeah, yeah. Of course. Well, it... I mean, it just... And, and if you think about like with the tech censorship stuff, uh, um, if you think about like in like 2014, 2015, this basically didn't exist. This isn't that long ago that y- you kind of could say whatever you wanted to. Yeah, I'll have a little bit. Thank you. You could say whatever you wanted to on, on Twitter, more or l- I mean, I remember-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:49

      (laughs)

   8. DSDave Smith7:49

      ... like really wild people saying crazy shit on Twitter. And there was never even a thought like, "Oh, you're gonna get kicked off for saying this."

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:56

      Right.

   10. DSDave Smith7:56

       It was just like, it's, it's the internet.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:57

       That's Twitter.

   12. DSDave Smith7:58

       That's Twitter.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:58

       Yeah.

   14. DSDave Smith7:58

       YouTube. You could say what you wanted to.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:00

       Twitter has hardcore porn.

   16. DSDave Smith8:02

       Well, that's the other thing that's very weird about what is, is allowed and what's not allowed.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:06

       Which I'm for. I don't think sh- I'm not saying th- they should censor hardcore porn. If you wanna follow a porn star, if they wanna post pictures of them fucking and videos of them fucking-

   18. DSDave Smith8:14

       Yeah, I don't care.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:15

       ... who cares?

   20. DSDave Smith8:16

       Well, I just... I also ju- Yeah, I'm completely against any of the censorship. I think it's an awful slippery slope to go down.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       It's a giant slippery slope.

   22. DSDave Smith8:23

       And-

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:23

       And it shouldn't be navigated by people who are, again, indoctrinated into this system that they get straight out of universities and they're, they're locked into these progressive ideas.

   24. DSDave Smith8:32

       Yeah, but the oth- I, I agree with all that. But I mean, th- so the point I was just making is when you talk about like the bottom line. So you could see why originally back then why they weren't kicking people off of their platforms is 'cause like, well, there's no incentive for them to kick people off the platform. The whole point is they want people to be on their platform. There'd certainly be no incentive to kick like really popular people off of their platform.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       Right.

   26. DSDave Smith8:54

       That's w- That's how they get people in, onto their platform. And it is, there is a lot of truth to the fact that a lot of these kids coming out of the universities came in with this woke ideology. But there was also like tremendous pressure from the top coming down. So like what really, really sparked all of it was in 2016 once Trump won.

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       Mm-hmm.

6. 9:13 – 13:15

   Berenson, COVID speech policing, and NIH/pharma conflicts of interest

   1. DSDave Smith9:13

      And then Congress hauled all the heads of the, uh, the, the big tech companies in front of Congress and basically threatened the shit out of 'em that like, "Look, Donald Trump won and here's why he won. He won because of fake news and Russian interference in social media. And so you guys gotta do something to crack down on them." And you see that to this day. Did you see, uh, Alex Berenson like shared the evidence? I mean, he was able to get back on Twitter through that lawsuit. But he shared that, that the White House specifically asked about Alex Berenson.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:40

      Yeah. We read it.

   3. DSDave Smith9:41

      And said, "Why are they still on Twitter?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:42

      We read it. Uh, we read the-

   5. DSDave Smith9:44

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      ... quotes and who quoted them on the podcast.

   7. DSDave Smith9:46

      Now, technically speaking, they didn't say, "Kick Alex Berenson off of Twitter."

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:52

      Right. What are you doing about it?

   9. DSDave Smith9:53

      But they, but they did go, "What are you doing?" It's like this mafia shit almost. So that's, you know... I guess you could kind of say it's not exactly a violation of the First Amendment 'cause they just asked. But it's kind of like someone robbing you by just asking for your money-

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:07

       Well, here's, here's-

   11. DSDave Smith10:07

       ... in an aggressive way.

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       ... another more important point. He was right.

   13. DSDave Smith10:13

       That is pretty important.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:14

       This is a very important point, which is why he's back on.

   15. DSDave Smith10:16

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       He was cit- he was citing studies. He was using the Israeli data. He was talking to scientists-

   17. DSDave Smith10:24

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:24

       ... that were willing to go outside of the company line. And there's quite a few of them. These are legit people. So what he was getting in trouble for with the government was being correct.

   19. DSDave Smith10:35

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:35

       Which is really crazy 'cause you're talking about a health pandemic. So you're talking about decisions that could possibly either save people's lives, ruin people's lives, save people's health, ruin people's health. The only way you're gonna know what's what is if you get accurate data. So if there's a guy who's talking about data, but the data's inconvenient to whatever the narrative is, if it's because it's inconvenient because the pharmaceutical companies fund 75% of all the ads on television and how many campaigns and how much, how much money do they have invested in this? And does the government actually have a piece of the Moderna vaccine? Isn't that-

   21. DSDave Smith11:12

       Well, there was... So, uh, Rand Paul, I don't know if you saw one of these moments where he w- It, it was, uh, months ago now, but where he was, uh, grilling Fauci in one of those-

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:19

       Yeah.

   23. DSDave Smith11:20

       ... Rand Paul versus Fauci moments. And he said that they found out through a freedom, uh, Freedom of Information Act that it was something like $135 million in royalties had been paid out to scientists on the NIH, uh, at the NIH from pharmaceutical companies. And he asks Fauci straight up, he goes, "Have you received any money? Will you disclose all the money you've received?" And Fauci, in a roundabout way, you know, was like, "Well, Doc- Dr. Paul, I think I may have had one royalty for very small money, but no, I don't n- I... The law doesn't require me to reveal that." So like, hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       Oh.

   25. DSDave Smith11:53

       Don't you think like, shouldn't we know that? Shouldn't we at least be able to know like, how much money does Fauci make-

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:58

       Yes.

   27. DSDave Smith11:58

       ... from Pfizer and Moderna? 'Cause that seems like a tiny conflict of interest.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:02

       A giant conflict of interest.

   29. DSDave Smith12:04

       Yeah. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:04

       And-
7. 13:15 – 21:18

   Hunter Biden laptop, FBI signals to platforms, and ‘impossible’ moderation demands

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:15

      Right. And they also affected that Hunter Biden story. They-

   2. DSDave Smith13:19

      Well, that's the other thing. What... and... What... I mean, wasn't that pretty incredible, dude, what Zuckerberg said to you?

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:24

      It was-

   4. DSDave Smith13:25

      I mean, that was... Look, it... he... You asked him about the Hunter Biden story.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:30

      Yeah.

   6. DSDave Smith13:30

      And his first response to you was, "Well, here's what happened. The FBI told us there was gonna be this, this misinformation, this Russian"-

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:39

      Yeah.

   8. DSDave Smith13:39

      ... "misinformation coming." Now, I'm not saying the FBI told him specifically, "You have to turn down the Hunter Biden story." But when you asked him about the Hunter Biden story, the first thing he said was, "Well, the FBI..." So clearly, at least he took it that way, and then when the story came out, the FBI and the CIA and all these intelligence, uh, people are saying, "This has all the earmarks of Russian disinformation."

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:03

      Yeah.

   10. DSDave Smith14:04

       And Joe Biden's bragging about this at the time. So if nothing else, they at least clearly sent a signal to these companies that like, "This is the one. This is what we were"-

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:13

       Right.

   12. DSDave Smith14:13

       ... "talking about."

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:13

       Now, could you imagine if you're these people at Facebook, what do you do? Like, what, what... If you get that phone call or whatever it is, email, probably a fucking person-to-person meeting when they put your phone in a basket.

   14. DSDave Smith14:27

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:28

       Really. What is it... what is it like and what do you do? And do you go into a deep dive and try to find out what's legit and what's not legit? Do you go and interview the people from the New York Post that wrote the article? What do you do?

   16. DSDave Smith14:40

       Yeah. It's, it's, it's a weird situation where they're kind of asking you to have this level of expertise in a thing that is not your area of expertise.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:48

       Right.

   18. DSDave Smith14:49

       Or do you just have some faith in the system and go, "Well, I mean, this is the FBI telling me this, and if they're saying it's Russian, uh, misinformation, then I don't wanna put it out there if that could affect the results of an election."

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:01

       Imagine if it is.

   20. DSDave Smith15:01

       And so maybe you err on that side.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:03

       Right, imagine if it is.

   22. DSDave Smith15:04

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:04

       Imagine if you've been warned and then it is Russian d- Russian disinformation, but you also allow people to share it and it turns out to actually affect the election.

   24. DSDave Smith15:12

       Yeah. Well, that's-

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:13

       Uh, swings the election the other way, Trump wins again, and then we find out it's a hoax, and we find out he really is in cahoots with Russia. That was the big fear, right? And that's, that's not a narrative that you didn't hear. Like you, you heard constantly he was in bed with Russia. You heard-

   26. DSDave Smith15:27

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       ... constantly Russia had stuff on him. Russia has this, Russia has that, he did this, people peed on him.

   28. DSDave Smith15:32

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       You know, there was-

   30. DSDave Smith15:33

       Yes.
8. 21:18 – 23:18

   War messaging, Eisenhower’s warning, and the military-industrial complex

   1. DSDave Smith21:18

      Well, it's like I see people up here, it's like, um, 'cause all the people who are like selling the, the war in, in Ukraine right now and how we have to send more weapons in and we have to cr- crack down harder on, on Russia and be more involved in the war, it's like all the same people who sold the war in Iraq. I mean, not all of 'em, but a whole bunch of 'em are like the exact same people.

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:35

      They're just people who sell war.

   3. DSDave Smith21:37

      Like it's a ... Yeah. And, and you're like, you, and those same people were complaining about misinformation.

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:41

      And this is-

   5. DSDave Smith21:42

      And they're like the ones who sold the war in Iraq and then they go, "Okay, remember how I told you that Saddam Hussein was in bed with Osama bin Laden and he had nukes that he was gonna, uh, detonate in Kansas? Well, let me tell you what's going on now." And you're like, "How do you get to tell me what's going on now?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan21:54

      (laughs)

   7. DSDave Smith21:55

      How are you even here?

   8. JRJoe Rogan21:56

      This is precisely what they warned about, like when, when Eisenhower gave that speech.

   9. DSDave Smith22:02

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan22:03

       It's precisely what he was warning about.

   11. DSDave Smith22:05

       Well-

   12. JRJoe Rogan22:05

       We're warning about undue influence and that there's a whole business behind war now-

   13. DSDave Smith22:10

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan22:11

       ... and they wanna go to war.

   15. DSDave Smith22:12

       So he, B- Eisenhower basically said that b- 'cause it, during World War II, we built up this arms industry that has never been built up before. And now you have these companies and that, that's, he coined the term, the military-industrial complex. And you see this all over the place in, in Washington DC, man. There are like these think tanks that get funded by the weapons manufacturers. And then those think tanks come up with pieces about why we need to go fight a war.

   16. JRJoe Rogan22:40

       Yeah.

   17. DSDave Smith22:40

       And then they go and lobby the politicians to support some other war. It's like a- it's- it's, yeah. It's something out of like a crazy movie.

   18. JRJoe Rogan22:48

       And you can see ... And you can see that same thing in response to disease.

   19. DSDave Smith22:52

       Oh yeah, exactly.

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:53

       The pharmaceutical companies get involved. The response to disease is always their pharmaceutical products. It's never lifestyle and health changes. What's one of the, one of the best videos of Fauci is early on before the pandemic kicked off where he's saying, "Just lose weight. You don't need a mask, it's not gonna work. Just don't drink, don't smoke."

   21. DSDave Smith23:14

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:14

       "Try to take care of yourself. That's the most important thing." Like where did all that go?

   23. DSDave Smith23:17

       Well, and-

9. 23:18 – 40:14

   COVID policy fallout: mandates, passports, ventilators, and lockdown damage

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:18

      Well, that's not convenient to pharmaceutical companies. And it's also lumping everybody physically into the same boat, in the same category of risk. It's so crazy. And that's what's really freaking people out 'cause they're trying to do it to little children.

   2. DSDave Smith23:32

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:32

      'Cause they're trying to do that now to little children where there's significant risk of myocarditis. It's a real thing. We know, we, we know it's a thing. These goddamn commercials that you see where they're talking about little kids and myocarditis on television. Like, when, when was that an issue?

   4. DSDave Smith23:45

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:45

      You're, you're trying to pretend that this was an issue before? This was not an issue that you needed to advertise on television, the risk of myocarditis in children and just give them some medicine and then they're gonna grow up and be happy and healthy. Like, you don't even fucking know that-

   6. DSDave Smith23:57

      No.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:57

      ... 'cause you don't know the extent of the heart damage. You don't know that.

   8. DSDave Smith24:00

      There, there was a... There was another clip of Fauci, um, that was... It was, uh, in, it was in... during the lockdown regime before Operation Warp Speed. So before, before the vaccine regime when we were still in the lockdown regime. And I... This video I haven't seen go as viral, but I- I played it on my podcast, my... uh, part of the problem. If you go look, it's in, like, one of the last five episodes if someone wa- anyone wants to check it out. But he was saying point blank during, during the COVID lockdowns, that when people were going, "Well, maybe we could get a vaccine and that'll get us out of these lockdowns." And he was like, "No, no, no, because even if we got a vaccine, it would take at least two years of trials before we would know whether this vaccine was safe. And then sometimes vaccines can have a negative effect-"

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:44

      Yeah.

   10. DSDave Smith24:44

       "...where actually you're worse at fighting off the, the virus afterward." And he kind of breaks down this whole thing. Then, then all of a sudden, once Operation Warp Speed starts and then once Biden gets in, you're not allowed to talk about that anymore. And in fact, when I was on with you, it was a couple of times ago, it was the clip, uh, that we went... that you got, like, all this fu- this heat for. And Fauci even responded. And essentially what you were saying was like, "Hey, if you're a young person, just be really healthy."

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:10

       Yeah.

   12. DSDave Smith25:10

       "That's my advice to you. Eat healthy, exercise, get a lot of sunlight, get vitamin D." Like, all these things. And that became like a, like a controversial statement. There is... All of the science backs that up, that that is absolutely excellent advice.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       But it had nothing to do with science at that point. It was a narrative.

   14. DSDave Smith25:27

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:27

       "This is what's going to get us out of this horrible thing we're in now. Take it." And everybody had to take it. And if you didn't take it, there was all this crazy nonsense. Like, first of all, they knew in the beginning that it wasn't gonna stop infection. They knew. The... Burke said that.

   16. DSDave Smith25:42

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:43

       She said that now. "I should have said that before."

   18. DSDave Smith25:45

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       She said that, "I knew that it wasn't going to prevent infection."

   20. DSDave Smith25:48

       She said, like, we oversold it a little or something like that, yeah, right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:51

       I don't know what she was... what she said, how she said it. But, you know, that, that was known back then. And it's also if you talk to virologists about respiratory illnesses, like, you can't contain them.

   22. DSDave Smith26:03

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:04

       You, you do your be-... Like, can you stop yourself from getting it? Yeah. If you completely isolate from humanity and you stay on a ranch and you never leave and you get your own well water and you wait this bitch out.

   24. DSDave Smith26:14

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:14

       That's possible. You could do that. But other than that, if you're gonna be in contact with human beings, and especially something that you can spread before you know you have it, which apparently is the case.

   26. DSDave Smith26:26

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan26:26

       Like, people could have a mild form of it and be spreading it, and then other people can die from it.

   28. DSDave Smith26:30

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan26:30

       And you might not be affected by it by... at all, but the other people that get it might die. And so that was the big fear, right? And everybody was like, "If you are irresponsible at this point, you're contributing to this horrible situation." I get that. But why didn't we put that same sort of... same sort of focus and, and, and same sort of pressure on people to take care of their health? Because that makes a big fucking difference. A giant difference.

   30. DSDave Smith26:56

       Yeah.
10. 40:14 – 47:34

    Trust collapse: ivermectin ‘horse paste,’ media credibility, and populist overlap

    1. JRJoe Rogan40:14

       No, it's fucking, it's wild, man. Or the people that spread that story about, uh, folks that were, uh, they were having overdoses of ivermectin, and so they were being rushed into the hospitals. They had no room for gunshot patients 'cause so many people were taking ivermectin.

    2. DSDave Smith40:31

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:31

       A total 100% fabrication and lie that was in Rolling Stone, that Rachel Maddow tweeted, and then she doubled down on it afterwards-

    4. DSDave Smith40:42

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan40:42

       ... after it was proven. We looked at the photo. We were like, "Why are those people wearing coats?" It's August-

    6. DSDave Smith40:46

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:46

       ... in Oklahoma.

    8. DSDave Smith40:48

       Well, it also just, i- i- ... If you would just had anyone who knew anything, I'm not a doctor or anything, but if you know anyone who knows anything about it, you would just look at that, like I did the second I read that story, and go, "That doesn't sound right." Because ivermectin is known for being a very safe drug. N- whether the argument is that it, it helps with COVID or not, it's n- ... The reason why, at the beginning, doctors were giving it to people is 'cause they were kind of like, (clicks tongue) "Well, this may help or it may not, but it's definitely not a dangerous drug to take."

    9. JRJoe Rogan41:12

       It's one, it's on the World Health Organization's-

    10. DSDave Smith41:14

        So-

    11. JRJoe Rogan41:14

        ... list of most important medicines.

    12. DSDave Smith41:15

        Yeah. Like, so that ... So it just made no sense. You'd at least go in being skeptical of this. By the way-

    13. JRJoe Rogan41:20

        Billions of prescriptions.

    14. DSDave Smith41:20

        ... didn't it just get added-

    15. JRJoe Rogan41:21

        Yes.

    16. DSDave Smith41:22

        It just got added as a COVID treatment, I believe.

    17. JRJoe Rogan41:24

        Yeah.

    18. DSDave Smith41:25

        So, uh-

    19. JRJoe Rogan41:25

        I don't know what the ... Find out what that is, 'cause what I've heard is it's just, they just put it on there because, just to give people information about it, whether or not-

    20. DSDave Smith41:34

        You know-

    21. JRJoe Rogan41:34

        ... they're admitting that it's, uh, it's, it's def-

    22. DSDave Smith41:37

        But why do they even call it ivermectin? Why don't they call it horse paste?

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:40

        (laughs)

    24. DSDave Smith41:40

        Like, why do they even, why would they even refer to it like this?

    25. JRJoe Rogan41:42

        Well, see, the, that, n- ... Here's the crazy thing. That might have worked on some people at the moment, where people are like, "Oh my God, these idiots are taking horse paste."But now, given the amount of time that's gone on, what it's done, really, is it's eroded significantly people's respect and people's trust in mainstream news.

    26. DSDave Smith42:01

        Which I think is good.

    27. JRJoe Rogan42:02

        Which is fucking very good.

    28. DSDave Smith42:03

        'Cause, you know-

    29. JRJoe Rogan42:03

        We, we got to find out what CNN really is.

    30. DSDave Smith42:05

        Yeah, well that's-
11. 47:34 – 56:25

    Culture war as a deliberate distraction: Occupy/Tea Party to ‘woke’ corporate alignment

    1. JRJoe Rogan47:34

       Yeah. And those culture war issues, that's the most important thing that you're saying. And this is something that people need to get in their head, that these culture war issues that w-... we, we're seeing in the news every day. There is an element of distraction about that. No matter how much you think these issues are important, they are important, they certainly are. They are to people.

    2. DSDave Smith47:54

       Yeah. There's lots of them that are, that are very important. Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan47:56

       They're very important. But they're not talking about them because they're important.

    4. DSDave Smith47:59

       Right.

    5. JRJoe Rogan48:00

       They're talking about them because they know this will solidify people's adherence to the ideology, whether it's the right-wing ideology or the left-wing ideology. When you have people like Stacey Abrams saying that a fetal heartbeat is, is an illusion? Like how did she say it?

    6. DSDave Smith48:15

       Yeah. It's not, it's not real.

    7. JRJoe Rogan48:17

       She said-

    8. DSDave Smith48:17

       What you're hearing there isn't real or something like that.

    9. JRJoe Rogan48:20

       What did she, what did she say about a heartbeat? 'Cause this is like-

    10. DSDave Smith48:23

        She said at six weeks-

    11. JRJoe Rogan48:24

        ... established biology.

    12. DSDave Smith48:26

        I heard my daughter's heartbeat when she was a six-week-old. I mean, you know, like I-

    13. JRJoe Rogan48:30

        It's established biology. This is wild ideological crazy-

    14. DSDave Smith48:36

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan48:36

        ... cult talk.

    16. DSDave Smith48:37

        Well, you just go, "Well, what was making that woomp-woomp, woomp-woomp sound that me and my wife listened to in the ultrasounds?"

    17. JRJoe Rogan48:41

        Like what did she say? She said is a ... no such thing as a prenatal heartbeat at six weeks. The sound is manufactured. That just that statement alone should discredit you to the point where people should never listen to anything you ever say again.

    18. DSDave Smith48:55

        And what does she even mean?

    19. JRJoe Rogan48:56

        Like who is, who is manufacturing it?

    20. DSDave Smith48:57

        Who is manuf- just like my, my wife's, uh, like OB was just in the corner going-

    21. JRJoe Rogan49:00

        He's like this. Yeah. (singing)

    22. DSDave Smith49:00

        "Woomp, woop, woomp, woomp, too-whoop."

    23. JRJoe Rogan49:01

        Saying, "Dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum."

    24. DSDave Smith49:02

        "That's your baby." (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan49:03

        Yeah. Like what? He's faking it?

    26. DSDave Smith49:04

        (laughs)

    27. JRJoe Rogan49:04

        Like what does that mean? She supports no limits on abortion. Um, that's crazy too, 'cause you're saying like eight months and four weeks, or eight months and three weeks rather? Like right before-

    28. DSDave Smith49:16

        I mean if-

    29. JRJoe Rogan49:17

        ... the, the kid's coming out?

    30. DSDave Smith49:18

        Well, this is-
12. 56:25 – 1:01:05

    January 6, ‘fed’ questions, and reframing ‘conspiracy theory’

    1. JRJoe Rogan56:25

       Well, the January 6th thing is not a small thing. Like when people entered the Capitol with zip ties, that's not a small thing. You know? And I don't think dismissing how fucked up that was is ... I, I, I understand what you're saying.

    2. DSDave Smith56:40

       No, I'm not, I'm not even saying that it wasn't fucked up or the guy who had zip ties ... And I heard ... I don't know exactly what the story was with that guy with the zip ties. I ... I'm not downplaying it.

    3. JRJoe Rogan56:48

       But there were ... There was people-

    4. DSDave Smith56:48

       I'm saying-

    5. JRJoe Rogan56:49

       ... in there that were 100% unhinged.

    6. DSDave Smith56:50

       I think there were some people in there that had they gotten their hands on Mike Pence or something like that, like something very ugly could have happened. So I'm-

    7. JRJoe Rogan56:56

       100%.

    8. DSDave Smith56:56

       I don't mean to downplay that aspect of it. I'm just saying that, like, those people, even had they done something to Mike Pence or something like that, would have been shut down by ... L- I mean, the military would have come in. The National Guard would have come in. They were never a real threat to take over the United States of America and implement fascism. My point is that these people that I'm talking about are really powerful and actually affecting the lives of everyday Americans. And my other thing is that a lot of those people in January 6th weren't that guy.

    9. JRJoe Rogan57:24

       Right.

    10. DSDave Smith57:25

        And were just people kind of in the crowd who entered the building.

    11. JRJoe Rogan57:27

        I can't believe we're inside. Yeah.

    12. DSDave Smith57:28

        And also what the hell was going on with Mike Epps, and how does it make any sense that he is being-

    13. JRJoe Rogan57:32

        Ray Epps.

    14. DSDave Smith57:32

        Ray Epps. I'm sorry. My f- (laughs) Not Mike Epps.

    15. JRJoe Rogan57:34

        Mike Epps the comedian. Sorry, Mike.

    16. DSDave Smith57:35

        That's a, that's a great, great comedian. (laughs) Mike ...

    17. JRJoe Rogan57:37

        Sorry, Mike.

    18. DSDave Smith57:37

        By the way, for the record, Mike Epps was not in January 6th.

    19. JRJoe Rogan57:40

        (laughs) .

    20. DSDave Smith57:40

        I'd like to correct the record and apologize to Mike Epps.

    21. JRJoe Rogan57:42

        (laughs)

    22. DSDave Smith57:43

        So sorry. Ray Epps, who Democrats are now defending as, like, some guy who's being villainized ... Uh, vilified. Uh-

    23. JRJoe Rogan57:49

        Who's defending him?

    24. DSDave Smith57:50

        Well, there was some Democrat in Congress the other day who was like, "Just leave the guy alone. I mean, he wasn't a fed."

    25. JRJoe Rogan57:55

        Well, we should be concerned.

    26. DSDave Smith57:55

        Well, look-

    27. JRJoe Rogan57:56

        You should be concerned if he's not a fed, then he's on the other team. So why would you be defending him if he's literally inciting violence?

    28. DSDave Smith58:03

        Yeah. You would be calling him-

    29. JRJoe Rogan58:04

        Yeah.

    30. DSDave Smith58:04

        ... an insurrectionist or a domestic terrorist.
13. 1:01:05 – 2:05:45

    Ukraine, NATO expansion, and nuclear brinksmanship fears

    1. DSDave Smith1:01:05

       Yeah. Also really worthwhile is watching his, uh, his interviews with Putin.... um, that, that-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

       Hmm.

    3. DSDave Smith1:01:10

       ... series of interviews-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

       Yeah.

    5. DSDave Smith1:01:11

       ... that he did, pa- particularly considering what's going on right now, which is like the, to me, the most important thing in the world. And, um, it's, it's, this is like the next thing where now ... You know like, you know like how kinda now me and you could talk about ... Like you could talk ab- I, I tweet, I put things on YouTube about, like, the vaccine, you know, and negative effects of the vaccine. And I'm just like not worried about it. It's just like not, like it's not that hot right now. But last year ...

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

       Yeah.

    7. DSDave Smith1:01:37

       ... you were doing that, you were like, "Man, this might get me flagged. This might get me like kicked off." Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       The conversation that you and I had.

    9. DSDave Smith1:01:42

       Oh yeah, we got so much like heat for that. It was-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:44

        So much for me saying young people, I would tell them, "Don't get vaccinated."

    11. DSDave Smith1:01:47

        Yeah, like and that, just, just that comment, and then-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:50

        Yeah.

    13. DSDave Smith1:01:50

        ... going on to say, "I would tell them to be really healthy and all of this,"-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:52

        Yeah.

    15. DSDave Smith1:01:52

        ... that comment, we, it was like trending for a week afterward.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:56

        Yeah.

    17. DSDave Smith1:01:56

        The White House is commenting on it, Fauci. But now, this conversation we just had, doubling down on it-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

        Yeah.

    19. DSDave Smith1:02:01

        ... and defending it, this isn't gonna trend, because it's just we're not in that right now, but right ... But then you see with, with the Russia thing, when that first starts, then all of a sudden if ... That's what's hot now. And this is how they always do this. Like in the moment, they try to really make it ... They try to make you intimidated to say the important thing in the moment. But man, dude, this thing with Russia is just like the craziest thing in the world. Like the idea that we're actually flirting with a nuclear conflict with Russia is the most important priority in the history of humanity is that America and Russia do not go to war. There's nothing more important than that. That's, that's it. We'll destroy h- the, the human species if we do this. And yet there's this war right on Russia's border and there's no effort to negotiate going on. There's a, like no effort. In fact, wh- from th- from very, uh, solid reporting that actually America through Boris Johnson in, in U- told Ukraine not to negotiate with Russia at the very beginning of the war when they had a deal worked out.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:03:02

        (exhales)

    21. DSDave Smith1:03:02

        They had a, they had a deal worked out, it's been reported in multiple sources, that they had a deal worked out and the deal was basically that Vladimir Putin would pull back, he would pull back his troops and leave Ukraine under the condition that th- the very simple conditions that Ukraine, uh, uh, guaranteed, um, autonomy for the Donbas region and agreed to never join NATO. And like that was the deal. Like okay, I'm not saying everyone thinks that's the perfect deal, but it's better than what we got right now.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:03:27

        Better than nuclear war.

    23. DSDave Smith1:03:28

        And, and right now just the other day ... Dude, the official narrative on this, this whole war, it's just like it makes no sense. A- and again, like I said, remember, the same people who are pushing this are the ones who were telling you Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and stuff. But the official narrative, Joe, is basically that, um, okay so uh, uh, Vladimir Putin is a, a madman, a crazy war criminal who's hellbent on, um, reforming the Soviet Union and this is a real threat that he could do this, but also he's, he's getting humiliated in this war in Ukraine. It's like he's j- he's losing to the poorest country in Europe and he's just getting humiliated and beat back, but he's still a real threat to take over all of Europe. And he's a complete madman, by the way, Joe. But when he says he's gonna use nuclear weapons, don't listen to that. He'd never actually do that even though he's a complete madman. And as everyone says this, this war, the word they use over and over and over again, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton, all of them, unprovoked. Vladimir Putin led an unprovoked war in Ukraine. But then it's just like with Osama bin Laden, what they did with him then. Don't listen to him. Whatever you do, don't listen to what he's actually saying 'cause none of that's his motivations. Like what, his motivations are what we tell you. Osama bin Laden hates us, uh, 'cause we're free. And then like Ron Paul would just go like, "Yeah, but that's not what he's saying at all." Like o- he, h- Osama bin Laden was so clear about why he hated America. I mean he's like, "Look, I hate you because you murder innocent civilians in the Muslim world, you prop up brutal dictators in the Muslim world, you prop up Israel who mistreats the Palestinian people, and you have our, your, uh, your bases in our holy land in the Arabian Peninsula." And then they're like, "No, he hates us 'cause we're free." He didn't mention anything about freedom there. And then if you say that they're like, "Well are you defending Osama bin Laden?" And you're like, "No, I'm just saying listen to your enemies. There's a reason why he hates us." And if you listen to Vladimir Putin and what he's saying, I mean look, he's wrong for invading, uh, Ukraine. And y- I mean you know me, Joe, I'm the most antiwar fuck- fucking person there is and there's no excuse for that. I'm like tens of thousands of people have died. It's horrible. A- and a lot of them are soldiers but a lot of them are civilians. And um, but to say he was unprovoked is like insane. It's just only people who know nothing about the history of this conflict would say there was no provocation.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:47

        Did you see the conversation that Roger Waters had with that CNN guy?

    25. DSDave Smith1:05:50

        Yeah, and Ro- 'cause Roger-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:05:51

        Amazing.

    27. DSDave Smith1:05:51

        ... Waters was awesome on that.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:05:52

        Yeah.

    29. DSDave Smith1:05:53

        'Cause he knows what he's talking about, dude.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:05:55

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 3:15:29