Joe Rogan Experience #1891 - Duncan Trussell

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Narrator 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music)

Joe Rogan 0:13 (laughs) Hello, Duncan.

Duncan Trussell 0:16 Hello!

Joe Rogan 0:18 I don't think this is gonna work.

Duncan Trussell 0:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:23 (laughs) Oh my God, I can't see. Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 0:27 Oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 0:28 I can't, like ... I can't see at all.

Duncan Trussell 0:32 All right.

Joe Rogan 0:32 I don't know how you're supposed to see out of that.

Duncan Trussell 0:33 It is a deadly outfit.

Joe Rogan 0:36 I guess I'll just put that on when I wanna say something incriminating.

Duncan Trussell 0:39 Yeah. S- What do you mean?

Joe Rogan 0:41 Well, the Thought Police. So pull up that article, Jamie, at the beginning of this podcast. We should probably go right into this. 'Cause apparently, the Department of Homeland Security (sniffs) and Twitter-

Duncan Trussell 0:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 ... were working together. Are we on?

Duncan Trussell 1:00 (sniffs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01 I don't hear ... There we go. The Department of Homeland Security was, uh, they, they had a plan to police information and they were working with Twitter in some fashion. Like, look at this. "Quietly broadening its effort to curb speech it considers dangerous."

Duncan Trussell 1:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19 What does that mean?

Duncan Trussell 1:20 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:21 "An investigation by The Intercept has found years of internal DHS memos, emails, and documents obtained via leaks and an ongoing lops and on- ... (clears throat) And an ongoing lawsuit as well as public documents illustrate the expansive effort by the agency to influence the tech platforms."

Duncan Trussell 1:38 Shit.

Joe Rogan 1:39 "The work, much of which remains unknown to the American public," dun, dun, dun, "came into clearer view earlier this year when DHS announced a new Disinformation Governance Board-"

Duncan Trussell 1:50 Good lord.

Joe Rogan 1:51 "... a panel designed to police misinformation, false information spread unintentionally; disinformation, false information spread internally."

Duncan Trussell 1:59 Intentionally?

Joe Rogan 2:00 "And mal- ... Intentionally," excuse me. "And malinformation, factual information shared typically out of context, with harmful intent." Malinformation's a weird one.

Duncan Trussell 2:11 Malinformation?

Joe Rogan 2:12 Yeah. 'Cause it's factual, but it's shared-

Duncan Trussell 2:15 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:15 ... typically out of context.

Duncan Trussell 2:18 Out of context. "With harmful intent." That's where you're like, "Y- look, you don't understand why mowed down those reporters-"

Joe Rogan 2:24 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 2:24 "... with a chopper. It's outta context. You can't just show the video."

Joe Rogan 2:29 "While the board was widely ridiculed, immediately scaled back, and then shut down within a few months, other initiatives are underway as DHS pivots to monitoring social media now that its original mandate, the War on Terror, has been wound down." So that's been wound down apparently.

Duncan Trussell 2:45 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:46 "Platforms have got to get comfortable with government. It's really interesting how hesitant they remain," Microsoft executive Matt Masterson, former DHS official, texted-

Duncan Trussell 2:58 What?

Joe Rogan 2:58 ... Jen Easterly. L- Look at that. "Platforms have got to get comfortable-"

Duncan Trussell 3:02 Comfortable.

Joe Rogan 3:02 "... with government." Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 3:05 What does that mean?

Joe Rogan 3:06 I don't know. Tim Pool sent me this this morning. I didn't get a chance to re- ... I was i- in the gym.

Duncan Trussell 3:11 Look, you gotta get comfortable with government.

Joe Rogan 3:13 Yeah, that's what I've been saying.

Duncan Trussell 3:14 Just get comfortable.

Joe Rogan 3:15 Yeah, why aren't you comfortable, Duncan?

Duncan Trussell 3:16 Cozy up.

Joe Rogan 3:17 Why aren't you comfortable?

Duncan Trussell 3:17 Put on some sweatpants.

Joe Rogan 3:19 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 3:19 Cozy up. Wow, that's creepy.

Joe Rogan 3:25 That's what we need to do.

Duncan Trussell 3:26 I mean, I guess we all kind of suspected it though, right? It's not like anybo- ... That's ... Is that a shocker?

Joe Rogan 3:32 Well, what, what, uh, Tim Pool said is that Twitter was working with them. That, uh, they, I guess, like, they weren't being honest about it and they were working with them. What were you telling me? That, uh, that Jimmy Kimmel tweeted something and tried to delete it?

Duncan Trussell 3:47 Yeah, looks like (sniffs) ... I could be wrong about this, but Kimmel was pissed at Musk.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Why?

Duncan Trussell 3:54 For buying Twitter, but-

Joe Rogan 3:55 But wh- what does he care?

Duncan Trussell 3:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:56 What is he mad about?

Duncan Trussell 3:57 So basically, like, a lot of people seem to be really upset with Elon for buying Twitter because Elon is saying that he's not going to censor Twitter anymore. He's gonna, like, let ... You know, all the banned people are gonna get back on apparently. You know, it's like they're trying to figure it out, how to do it. And so this has upset a lot of people who were happy with the idea that it was being, like, hyper-moderated in a way, I think, that fits in with their politics.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 4:31 Right? That was the idea.

Joe Rogan 4:32 That was the idea.

Duncan Trussell 4:32 So it's like ... So, like, their team was in control for a second and now somebody ... You know what it reminds me of? It's like when a new booker shows up at a comedy club. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:44 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 4:44 And all the comics start talking shit. It's, like, scary.

Joe Rogan 4:49 Uh, "It has been interesting over the years to watch you blossom from the electric car guy into a fully formed piece of shit." Wow.

Duncan Trussell 4:58 And look, see, it says, "This tweet was deleted by the tweet author."

Joe Rogan 5:02 Learn more. What-

5:03 He was, uh, replying to a tweet that Elon tweeted-

5:06 Oh, what was the tweet?

5:06 ... that Elon deleted, which I think-

5:08 Oh.

5:08 ... was the thing.

5:08 That was the tweet where it's ... This, uh, it's like the Santa Monica Observer or something like that, was tweeting something about the Paul Pelosi attack. And that Santa Monica Observer has been known to tweet things that are- aren't, that aren't correct. Or at least has ... Or not tweet, publish things that aren't correct. At least has in one instance that they were citing. Something about Hillary Clinton. I don't know. But y- you know, he ... I think what Elon tweeted was, "There's a tiny chance that we might not be getting the full story," and then he tweeted that story.

Duncan Trussell 5:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:47 And th- this is the idea that maybe Paul Pelosi knew this guy. 'Cause people have been trying to pin that guy and say that he was, uh, a right wing MAGA guy. But didn't he live in, like, some fucking hippie collective and he made, like, hemp jewelry?

Duncan Trussell 6:01 He did Wutu pipeline.... he went Woo to Q. So, like, he-- apparently, he had some kind of, uh, blog or something. I think he started off Woo, super hippie, ayahuasca, mystical, and then gradually kind of devolved into Q. He-

Joe Rogan 6:22 QAnon.

Duncan Trussell 6:23 ... QAnon. The best analysis I saw of it was a reporter saying that what the real story here is not, like, um, is- is that this- there's people who are psychotic all over San Francisco from doing so much speed, meth, drugs. That's the real story. The real story is that all over, like, the great cities of America, people are, like, high as a fucking kite and have been for so long that they're, like, spinning out of control, and that that's what it is. That's the story of stories is, like, yeah, sure, this guy w- went Woo to Q. Very common. It happens. You start off, you're, like, into, like, taking supplements. That leads to a new supplement you've never heard of. That leads to, like, some weird website you go to. The next thing you know, you're rubbing weird balm all over your body.

Joe Rogan 7:14 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 7:14 (laughs) With a- under a crystal. Still fine, still cool, but somewhere along the way, you- you get on, like, one of these slides that lead you down into Q. And then the next thing you know, you're, like, completely, like, deep in that. So, that's what I've heard. He's Woo to Q, Woo to Q pipeline.

Joe Rogan 7:33 Oh, interesting.

Duncan Trussell 7:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:34 That, I like- I like that term. Is that a- a new term, Woo to Q? I've never heard that before.

Duncan Trussell 7:38 It's been floating around for a little bit. It's just, like, it's just one of the- you know, it's one of the things that happens. It's like-

Joe Rogan 7:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 7:45 You know Robert Anton Wilson, the great Robert Anton Wilson? His recommendation is maintain agnosticism when it comes to the exploration philosophically of these- of anything really.

Joe Rogan 7:56 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 7:56 But- so when you're contemplating this or that, let yourself believe it, but don't believe it all the way. Maintain agnosticism. You can, like, play around with the idea that the Earth is flat. You can play around with the idea that, uh, the Illuminati elite run the planet. You can play around with any idea you want, in fact, in the great simulator of your brain. But don't go all the way. If you go all the way, that's where you can start, like, spiraling out and-

Joe Rogan 8:25 Here, "Woo Anon, the creep of QAnon into Southern California's New Age world." Oh, wow.

Duncan Trussell 8:31 Yeah, that's it. Woo to Q.

Joe Rogan 8:34 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 8:38 Woo to Q pipeline right there.

Joe Rogan 8:40 Okay, so this is a new thing. You know, the- I think part of the problem with a lot of these theories is that some people, um, n- I'm just gonna try to say this as kindly as possible. They don't have good brains. And I say this as a person who has, like, a decent brain.

Duncan Trussell 9:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:00 But I know people with fantastic brains. It's not- there's no- there's no fairness. You know? I met this guy the other night, this poor guy, I don't know what was wrong with him, but he was, like, hunched over and, you know, he was very, very frail and hunched over. And, uh, whether this is, uh, because of a disease or whether this is because, uh, I don't know what was wro- there was- something was wrong with him. And I'm like, "This is not fair. It's not fair." This guy got, uh, just to shit roll the dice.

Duncan Trussell 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:30 And now he has this body that's failing him. And then you can meet someone like Francis Ngannou, who has this insanely perfect body, like, he's like the super alpha.

Duncan Trussell 9:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:40 UFC heavyweight champion, six foot six, 265 pounds of just pure athleticism.

Duncan Trussell 9:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:50 It's not fair. It's not fair. And then that- the same applies to, I think, everything. Like, all sorts of aspects of being a human being. And the same applies to the way your brain works. And if you're a person who unfortunately, for n- no fault of your own, you- you- you have this brain that's, like, not that good.

Duncan Trussell 10:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:14 And it can't discern things that are illogical. It can't- it can't make reasonable conclusions.

Duncan Trussell 10:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:21 It can't look at things objectively. It just can't.

Duncan Trussell 10:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:24 It's like a- like a- a two-gear car. It's like (imitates engine revving) .

Duncan Trussell 10:30 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:30 And then other people have a Tesla, and that thing can just sort of maneuver around ide- "Oh, I see what's going on here. Oh, this is a conflux of all these-"

Duncan Trussell 10:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:40 "... conspiracy theories that all come together." And-

Duncan Trussell 10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:43 This person has unfortunately adopted these wholesale-

Duncan Trussell 10:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:47 ... and hasn't looked into them at all-

Duncan Trussell 10:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:49 ... and now thinks there's lizard people that are shape-changers, that are behind closed doors, that are running the world-

Duncan Trussell 10:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 10:54 ... and that are trying to collapse all the societies. (sniffs) You know, there's- there's a real benefit to letting the- the fucking culture figure out what's right and what's wrong. But along the way, people are gonna get tricked, they're gonna get duped.

Duncan Trussell 11:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:13 And some people are gonna fall into the hands of very manipulative people that are very charismatic.

Duncan Trussell 11:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:21 And they have wacky fucking ideas about lizard people, or whatever it is.

Duncan Trussell 11:26 Whatever. Look at fucking, uh, Heaven's Gate, Jonestown.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Yep, yep. Yep, yep.

Duncan Trussell 11:31 Fuck, think of that. Like how-

Joe Rogan 11:33 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 11:34 ... out of it do you have to be to get to the point where someone is like, "It's time to drink cyanide." Or- and, you know, he'd been doing the test or something every day for a while. But how out of it? Like, if you want to- that's- see, that's what's scary about being human. We're hackable.

Joe Rogan 11:51 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 11:51 We're fuckin' hackable, dude.

Joe Rogan 11:53 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 11:53 And- and people are really good at hacking us. And you- you might think you have the most incredible mind of all time. But you're still susceptible. In the same way, you got a great immune system.

Joe Rogan 12:06 Have you ever been hypnotized?

Duncan Trussell 12:08 Yeah, I got hypnotized. My mom hypnotized me and a wart came off my hand.... isn't that weird? She s-

Joe Rogan 12:14 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 12:14 She was, like, studying psychology. She hypnotized me. I had this wart on this finger, and then over the next few days, it just kinda, like, fell off.

Joe Rogan 12:23 Hypnosis is real, man.

Duncan Trussell 12:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:26 It really does work. Um, but what it is, is not what everybody thinks it is. I think, uh, before... Well, n- I should just correct that. It, w- it's not what I thought it was. I thought, like, you don't know what's going on and you go into, like, some sort of a, a trance and the person can get you to do anything. "Give me your ATM code."

Duncan Trussell 12:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:44 But, but what it really is, is, like, it puts you in a state of mind where you're very aware that you're in this state of mind. And I've been thinking about it a lot and I've been thinking about, like, the cult thing a lot, and just the, the, the c- the cult of joining one party or another party too. You know, like, deciding you're a conservative or deciding-

Duncan Trussell 13:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:03 ... you're a progressive. I think it's a part of the design of the human animal that got us to cooperate in tribes. I think in order for things to work and function, you have to have a very strong inclination that there's one leader.

Duncan Trussell 13:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:22 And, uh, and then, you know, you have to have resistance to that to find the better next leader.

Duncan Trussell 13:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:28 And so that's w- where people get angry at this one person that's running the whole thing. But I think that when you scale that out to, like, 300 million people, it just doesn't work.

Duncan Trussell 13:38 How could it?

Joe Rogan 13:39 It doesn't work. It's chaos.

Duncan Trussell 13:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:42 We, we, we didn't design it for that.

Duncan Trussell 13:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:45 We d-... Or, or whatever designed us, I should say, didn't design us for that. Designed us for, like, tribes of 150 people. I think what the internet is, is the great connector, and the internet is connecting reality with this animal that desires to have a singular leader-

Duncan Trussell 14:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:07 ... because it wants someone to protect the tribe. But then the internet is, like, spitting and pissing and shitting all over that. It's like an antidote to it.

Duncan Trussell 14:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Like the, the, like, Twitter's, Twitter's fact-checking the president of the United States' incorrect facts.

Duncan Trussell 14:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:23 Which is crazy that that's happening.

Duncan Trussell 14:26 Well, this is, "The emperor wears no clothes."

Joe Rogan 14:29 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 14:30 That's the fable, right?

Joe Rogan 14:31 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 14:31 Like the naked dude's going around.

Joe Rogan 14:34 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 14:34 Everybody's scared of him, so they're like, "Beautiful robes."

Joe Rogan 14:37 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 14:37 And then some kid is like, "He's naked. Look, he's obviously naked." And then another person like, "Oh yeah, you're right, he is." It's like, that is the pot, that is the, like, I guess the hope of the internet, is that truth comes out and it destabilizes bad power stru- bad structures.

Joe Rogan 14:57 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 14:58 You know?

Joe Rogan 14:58 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 14:58 You want to. You wanna throw a monkey wrench in this shit that doesn't work so that it, like, stops working and you rebuild instead of patching up old wobbly things that are, like, smoke's coming out, gears are flying off, and you're supposed to pretend like it's working.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Right.

Duncan Trussell 15:15 That's where it gets creepy is, like, you know, if the, if, if the machine that is failing starts telling tech companies or whoever, like, what is real and what isn't, then a, a broken machine is then, like, articulating truth which then... So if someone starts telling the truth, "The emperor wears no clothes," and then, like, Twitter throws up underneath like, "This is potential misinformation." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:42 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 15:42 (laughs) Or whatever.

Joe Rogan 15:43 And that's why this Department of Homeland Security thing is so creepy, because that would be the same people, the same people that are telling you things that are factually inaccurate or that are getting fact-checked on Twitter, would be the very people that would get to dictate what is mal-information.

Duncan Trussell 16:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:03 Like, mal-information was the craziest one. Like, everybody thinks you shouldn't be able to say things that aren't true, right? Or if you do, you must correct them. Like, y- are you, are you telling the truth or are you manipulating with lies?

Duncan Trussell 16:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:16 You can't manipulate with lies. So if maybe you said something and you thought it was true, let's correct that.

Duncan Trussell 16:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:23 But if you just keep doing that over and over and over again and you never admit that, and then you're the one who gets to dictate what's mal-information-

Duncan Trussell 16:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:32 ... it's like the death rows of a dying system.

Duncan Trussell 16:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:37 And it's reaching out in a t- and it's acting and behaving the way it used to be able to behave when it had total access to what gets in- what, what people get informed about or not.

Duncan Trussell 16:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:48 It had complete control of that at one point in time.

Duncan Trussell 16:51 Well, it's massive. I mean, we're talking about... How many offices are filled with people working for the government right now? Like, how many? If you put them in a, in a building, like, would the building go all the way to the moon?

Joe Rogan 17:02 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 17:02 Would it be, like, a high-rise that went... Uh, probably the moon would be covered with government office buildings. But, like, it's j- it's massive. And then it's so huge that, you know, just, people get put into departments. And s- and some of the people that get put into departments are good, smart people, and some of the people that get put in the departments, they suck. And then-

Joe Rogan 17:23 Right, like everything in all walks of life.

Duncan Trussell 17:25 Yeah. Right?

Joe Rogan 17:26 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 17:26 That, that's all it takes. So you get one, like... Everybody's had a shitty manager. You get one shitty manager in some job where, like, he's g- he's got a little more power than he's supposed to have, and then he's probably got people around him who are like, "This is a bad idea." And he's like, "Well, you're fired." And then people come in who are like, "This is a really good idea." He's like, "You're a genius if you think this is a good idea, 'cause it is." Then you have this, like, terrible geometry of, like, wh- where contagion happens, where this one asshole s- like, starts getting surrounded by concentric circles of assholes, and then those people have so much power. And, um, and that's, I think, what's going on with it, is it's just, like, there's just too many people running things, and of those people, there's gotta be some that are great, I know there is, and there's some that are just...... abject, monstrous, power hungry, coked up assholes. And I think that's when you start seeing shit like that, it's clearly a sign of... I mean, again, maybe I'm being naive, but I'd like to imagine that that's coming from, like, a few assholes. That's not coming from the totality of the US government, all of it. It's just coming from, like, what? A thousand assholes?

Joe Rogan 18:39 But then there's also the real problem of actual misinformation that's being spread by bad parties, right? Like, we know that. We know that there's misinformation that gets spread by bad governments, by, uh, like, our enemies. Like, we know that there's a whole industry-

Duncan Trussell 19:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:00 ... for, like, these Russian troll farms.

Duncan Trussell 19:02 Sure.

Joe Rogan 19:02 You know, we've talked about this before but... In f- on Facebook, 19 of the top 20 Christian sites were being run by Russian troll farms.

Duncan Trussell 19:11 Oh, yeah. I remember you saying that. That's-

Joe Rogan 19:13 You know how nuts that is?

Duncan Trussell 19:14 ... fucked up.

Joe Rogan 19:15 That means they're, like... They're... Like, some conversations that are insane, that don't make any sense, like, how is this, how is this a conversation? Well, it might not be. It might be-

Duncan Trussell 19:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:26 ... we're getting manipulated. It might be there's a bunch of pe- And then, the problem with people, we were talking about before, that we have this natural inclination to follow leaders. We do that online too, man.

Duncan Trussell 19:36 Sure.

Joe Rogan 19:36 And if there's, like, some really good tweets that point in a certain direction, people will start agreeing with it.

Duncan Trussell 19:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:42 People are easily... The idea that manipulation only applies to, like, verbal or, or, or written in a statement. No, it fucking applies to tweets too. You can manipulate people with stuff.

Duncan Trussell 19:51 Dude, I get manipulated all the fucking time.

Joe Rogan 19:54 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 19:54 Are you kidding me? I'm, like, always getting caught up in bullshit online. I'm, I'm... I, like, go through, like, phases of like, "Yeah. Oh, my God."

Joe Rogan 20:01 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 20:02 I, I, I... Pendulum between teams or I'll get caught up in some, like, deep, crazy conspiracy. I... Like, I get... Like, I... It's a very potent... By the way, I'm not saying it's potent because I get manipulated easily but, uh, it's a potent drug.

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yes. It is.

Duncan Trussell 20:18 The internet's a gr- a potent drug. There's all kinds of operators. It's not just Russian troll farms. It's Discordians. It's just basic, like, trolls who are bored. It's who knows what? Probably some cult we'll never know about. Just some weird cult on an island somewhere with some nefarious purpose that's, like, trying to put some certain information on the internet. It's a ocean of madness and maybe, like, uh, the, the, the, the, uh, horrible idea is, "Okay. We can control the ocean of madness. That's what we're gonna do because some of these people are, are tr- are, are o-other states trying to cause discord in our society that could lead to a civil war or the collapse of the United States. We've gotta do something about this. Call up Twitter. Listen, it's a problem. You gotta let us tell you what's real and what's not real." And at first, maybe that's great. It's like, "Look, this is 100% coming from Russian trolls. This, this, whatever this is, this is Russian AI trolls." But then, all of a sudden, the president calls that department. He's like, "Hey, is there any way that you could also start applying that to, uh, people who say that I seem like I'm kinda out of it?" You know what I mean? (laughs) And then... (laughs) It's like-

Joe Rogan 21:35 (laughs) But it's not even him. He's not call, making that call.

Duncan Trussell 21:38 It's like, yeah. His, his butler or some-

Joe Rogan 21:40 It's all... Well, it's all... Imagine, just imagine. You know how, like, if you're a lawyer and you have, like, uh, uh, uh, a sneaky suspicion that your client is probably guilty but it's your job to get them off.

Duncan Trussell 21:56 Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 21:57 Yeah. It's your job.

Duncan Trussell 21:58 You have to.

Joe Rogan 21:58 If you're a lawyer-

Duncan Trussell 21:59 You swear an oath.

Joe Rogan 21:59 Yeah, if you're a lawyer, your job is not to make a judgment in your head, "I think maybe this guy's lying and maybe he did it."

Duncan Trussell 22:07 No.

Joe Rogan 22:08 Your judgment is to try to get your client off, right?

Duncan Trussell 22:10 That's it.

Joe Rogan 22:11 And that's why a lot of defense attorneys, man, that's a slippery, fucking weird w- world-

Duncan Trussell 22:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:17 ... to be in, right? But, but don't you think it's the same way in the government?

Duncan Trussell 22:20 Sure.

Joe Rogan 22:20 If you, if you're a person... If you're... (laughs) Like, if you, if you're that poor lady who's the White House press secretary-

Duncan Trussell 22:26 Worst job on Earth. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:27 (laughs) It's the fucking worst job.

Duncan Trussell 22:29 Worst job.

Joe Rogan 22:30 It's the worst job! You get all the hate of the president and none of the power.

Duncan Trussell 22:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:34 And fucking everybody hates you.

Duncan Trussell 22:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:36 And-

Duncan Trussell 22:36 You're a, you're, like, a punching bag. You just have to absorb that-

Joe Rogan 22:39 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 22:40 ... every day.

Joe Rogan 22:40 And you're under, like, extreme stress. You're a n- a person... Like, no one knows who you are. All of a sudden you have to speak publicly-

Duncan Trussell 22:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:49 ... for the country. That is such an insane role.

Duncan Trussell 22:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:53 And, and to be young, like this lady who's doing it now. Like, how old is she? 30 something?

Duncan Trussell 22:58 I don't know. Young.

Joe Rogan 22:59 She's so young.

Duncan Trussell 23:00 Young.

Joe Rogan 23:00 To, to, to p- to be in a position like that where you have a, like, a notebook in front of you and you have to, like, (laughs) answer, answer these complex questions of, "What the fuck is going on in Yemen?"

Duncan Trussell 23:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:10 Like, "What is go- why are we giving so much money to Ukraine? What are..." And the, "But, well, well, the president feels... The, the, the president..." You're, you're fucking talking for the whole country.

Duncan Trussell 23:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:19 That's such a crazy role.

Duncan Trussell 23:21 You have to, like, go into a meeting and they tell you what you're probably-

Joe Rogan 23:26 Oh, she's 48. She looks great. Goddamn. I always thought she was, like, 33.

Narrator 23:31 I had no idea.

Joe Rogan 23:32 She's healthy as fuck.

Duncan Trussell 23:33 Healthy, healthy press secretary.

Joe Rogan 23:35 Um-

Duncan Trussell 23:35 But yeah, you gotta go in a meeting. You have to, like... They're gonna tell you, like, "Look, they're gonna ask you about this for sure. Yesterday, the, v- we saw the vice president, and the vice president," this obviously didn't happen, "The vice president grabbed a baby out of someone's arms and threw the baby on the ground. Now, the, the reason this happened is because, uh, we accidentally dosed her with some new MKUltra shit."

Joe Rogan 24:02 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 24:02 "And she thought that she was, like, a Greek goddess and the baby was, like, a Hydra head. Don't worry about it. It was a bad experiment. But-"

Joe Rogan 24:11 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 24:12 "Anyway, you... They're gonna ask you, 'Why did the vice president throw the fucking baby on the ground?' You don't tell them we drugged her with an, accidentally with an MKUltra drug. You gotta say, uh, low blood sugar."... uh, the vice president's having low blood sugar and, and her hands shook, and she didn't really throw the baby, obviously. You've got to, like, go out there with that just load of shit-

Joe Rogan 24:33 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 24:33 ... and figure out a way to say it, not just to, like, one reporter but to, like, 20 rep- they... They, like, one will ask-

Joe Rogan 24:39 And the whole world.

Duncan Trussell 24:40 Yeah, the whole world.

Joe Rogan 24:41 The whole world's watching.

Duncan Trussell 24:42 You just... Yeah, yeah. You have to come up with some weird turn of phrase that doesn't make any sense, like-

Joe Rogan 24:47 When she had to explain why Joe Biden was bringing up a woman who was dead-

Duncan Trussell 24:53 Top of mind.

Joe Rogan 24:54 Top of mind. She was top of mind.

Duncan Trussell 24:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:57 I mean, it was really like the... It was like for what she had to work with, it was some incredible gaslighting.

Duncan Trussell 25:05 Amazing. She stuck to top of mind.

Joe Rogan 25:07 Top of mind's a good one because it's nonsense. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 25:10 'Cause you're sitting there thinking, like, "What does top of mind mean?"

Joe Rogan 25:13 (laughs) It's a new thing you can say.

Duncan Trussell 25:14 You're getting distracted by it, so you're like, "Is top of mind a thing?"

Joe Rogan 25:18 Top of mind. Yeah. Top of mind. Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 25:19 Top of mind. And she just kept saying it was top of mind.

Joe Rogan 25:21 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 25:21 You know, top of mind. T-O-M, top of mind. Okay. What? And the reporters are like, "T-..." But, but they're all thinking it's... I don't even know that top of mind exists. That's brilliant 'cause I, I don't think she just came up with top of mind. I think they were sitting back and they were like, "Just say top of mind over and over."

Joe Rogan 25:40 I think, I think that exactly is probably what happens, like, there's probably some sort of consultation on what's the best phrasing.

Duncan Trussell 25:46 Top of mind?

Joe Rogan 25:47 Top of mind sounds good.

Duncan Trussell 25:49 Yeah. Top of mind. That's good. That's real good.

Joe Rogan 25:51 So that's her job. Just like a defense attorney, it's their job to try to get their client off.

Duncan Trussell 25:57 No, I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 25:57 That's her job. What?

26:00 Sorry about that. (clears throat) That's... The video played on accident.

26:03 What happened?

26:03 I didn't mean for that to happen.

Duncan Trussell 26:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:04 Oh. That was... I thought you were... You had an interjection.

26:07 No. It was just the, uh, reaction video-

26:08 This, her hairy gap.

26:09 ... that happened.

Narrator 26:10 W- Was, uh... As you all know, you guys were watching, uh, today's event, a very important event on, uh, food insecurity. The president was naming, uh, the congressional champions on this issue and was acknowledging her incredible work. He had, uh, he had already planned to welcome-

Joe Rogan 26:23 This is after he said, called out her name when she was dead.

Narrator 26:26 ... the congresswoman's family, uh, to the White House on Friday. There will be, uh, a bill signing in her honor this coming Friday. Uh, so of course, she was on his mind. She was of top of mind-

Duncan Trussell 26:38 Of top of mind.

Narrator 26:38 ... for the president. He, uh, looks very much looks forward to discussing her remarkable legacy of public service with them when he sees her family this coming Friday.

26:48 He said, "Jackie, are you here? Where's Jackie? She must not be here."

26:51 No, I totally understand. I just, I just explained she was on top of mind.

Duncan Trussell 26:55 Mm.

Narrator 26:56 Uh, um, you know, and this wasn't-

Joe Rogan 26:57 Look at her eyes fluttering. She's like, shh.

Narrator 26:59 What we were able to witness today and what the president was able to lift up, uh, in this, uh, at this conference, at this event, uh, was how her, uh, her focus on, um, wanting to, uh, deal with, combat foo- food insecurity in America.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Pause. Pause, please.

Duncan Trussell 27:18 And this is-

Joe Rogan 27:18 Imagine if this is someone working for you. Imagine if you were in an office somewhere.

Duncan Trussell 27:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:23 Duncan, you're the CEO of a corporation.

Duncan Trussell 27:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:25 And something like this happens, and this person explains what happened to you. You'd go, "I can't have you work for me anymore 'cause you're a liar."

Duncan Trussell 27:34 Oh, I thought you meant-

Joe Rogan 27:35 Like, you're lying.

Duncan Trussell 27:36 I thought you meant, like-

Joe Rogan 27:37 No. If you're wor-... If, if you're, like, a CEO of a company and this la-... Like, what... You, like-

Duncan Trussell 27:41 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:41 ... have a meeting of, like, there's some sort of a disaster took place, like, "What happened?" And then you're confronted with information like this.

Duncan Trussell 27:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:48 Nobody said over and over again, "Where's Jackie? Is Jackie here?"

Duncan Trussell 27:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:52 "Jackie must not be here." Like, are you trying to say that he didn't forget that she was dead?

Duncan Trussell 28:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:01 Because now I can't trust you about anything.

Duncan Trussell 28:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:04 You've sacrificed, for the obvious, any trust that I could have in you about anything in the future.

Duncan Trussell 28:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:10 'Cause it's so obvious.

Duncan Trussell 28:12 Right. Well, I mean, that's their jo-... I mean, that's their job is to, like, professionally let it slide.

Joe Rogan 28:16 But it doesn't work. Here's the thing. It doesn't work.

Duncan Trussell 28:18 It kind of works.

Joe Rogan 28:19 Does it kind of work?

Duncan Trussell 28:20 It kind of fucking works, man, because-

Joe Rogan 28:22 It works 'cause you have to drop it.

Duncan Trussell 28:23 You have... The news cycle won't... You can't keep going back to top of mind. The news cycle's got to move on.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Right.

Duncan Trussell 28:28 They know that. You just th-... You just, like, uh, you know, slow it down enough, and then some other shit happens, and then everybody gets memory-sold. People forget about it, and then it just moves on. Do-

Joe Rogan 28:38 Imagine if Biden was doing your brain surgery, and everyone was trying to tell you he's great, he's fine, there's nothing wrong.

Duncan Trussell 28:46 Oh, my God. Can you fucking imagine?

Joe Rogan 28:49 Can you imagine? Imagine you have, like, a rare sort of brain disease.

Duncan Trussell 28:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:53 And they have to open you up, and it's only, like, a seven out of 10 chance you'll even survive the operation.

Duncan Trussell 28:58 Imagine if he was your Uber driver.

Joe Rogan 29:00 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 29:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:09 Oh, my God.

Duncan Trussell 29:13 Get out of here.

Joe Rogan 29:13 Yeah. We don't have to play it. We- we've all heard, heard him do it. You want to do it? You want to play it?

29:17 No. I was just...

29:18 Do you feel like playing it?

29:19 I was just showing it to him. It was... It felt like a good time to put them up there.

29:22 Do you want to play it?

29:23 I'll play it.

Narrator 29:24 And I want to thank all of you here for, including bipartisan elected officials like representative government Senator Braun, Senator Booker, Representative... Jackie, are you here? Where's Jackie? I, I didn't think she wanted to... She wasn't going to be here. To help make this a reality. And thanks to Senator Stabenow, Representative DeLauro for their leadership and-

29:44 I don't want to. What happened-

Joe Rogan 29:46 You'd be like, "Grandpa. Grandpa." (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 29:49 Well, he's a grandpa.

Joe Rogan 29:50 He's a grandpa.

Duncan Trussell 29:51 We put a very, very old man-

Joe Rogan 29:54 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:55 ... in the most stressful job on earth.

Joe Rogan 29:58 On earth.

Duncan Trussell 29:59 On earth. It's like-

Joe Rogan 30:01 On earth. Worse than working in an Amazon warehouse.

Duncan Trussell 30:03 Yeah, man. Like, a job that if I had that fucking job, I'd probably be, like, talking like that, too.

Joe Rogan 30:09 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 30:09 But just 'cause I'd be blasted on ketamine all the fucking time.

Joe Rogan 30:13 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 30:13 (laughs) I'd be, like, so high 'cause it's the only way you could cope with it.

Joe Rogan 30:17 How could you even cope with it if you're high? It's ridic... You... If you were a logical person, you'd be like, "We have to disband this position."

Duncan Trussell 30:23 Y-

Joe Rogan 30:23 "This position is ridiculous."

Duncan Trussell 30:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:25 "It's, it's... It might, we might as well be a king. I'm the king of this land for four years."

Duncan Trussell 30:30 Easier.

Joe Rogan 30:30 "And for four years I'll be a just king."

Duncan Trussell 30:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:32 "Yeah, I'll be a good king to the land."

Duncan Trussell 30:35 It's a-

Joe Rogan 30:36 It's-

Duncan Trussell 30:36 ... brutal crap.

Joe Rogan 30:37 It fucking c- It works if there's 150 people.

Duncan Trussell 30:39 What do they get paid? What does the-

Joe Rogan 30:40 It's not a good salary for what they get.

Duncan Trussell 30:43 It's like, what is it, what is the pres-

Narrator 30:44 400K, I think.

Duncan Trussell 30:45 400K. We're paying our fucking president-

Joe Rogan 30:47 That's one Bert Kreischer show.

Duncan Trussell 30:49 What the fuck? We should be paying them more. If we were paying them more, maybe more people would be, like, getting the job. Like, they should get, shouldn't they get at least like, what, like, I don't know, a- an A celebrity gets for one movie? Shouldn't they at least-

Joe Rogan 31:04 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 31:05 ... get that? We're go- we're gonna pay them half a million dollars to, like-

Joe Rogan 31:07 What's even creepier is w- they all wind up being insanely wealthy.

Duncan Trussell 31:12 I wonder how that happens.

Joe Rogan 31:13 It's, it's really interesting. What happens is they give speeches. So they give speeches to these, uh, people that helped them get into position of-

Duncan Trussell 31:24 What do you mean?

Joe Rogan 31:24 ... being a president. So, like, say if there's a large corporation.

Duncan Trussell 31:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:27 And the large corporation, they donate a lot of money towards campaigns and they also, "Oink, oink, we'd love to hear you talk some day."

Duncan Trussell 31:34 Wait, you're not saying the corporations that give hundreds of millions d- to of dollars for the president to come give this speech, are actually secretly bribing them, are you jo-

Joe Rogan 31:42 Well that doesn't even make sense.

Duncan Trussell 31:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:44 No one would think that.

Duncan Trussell 31:45 Why would you do that?

Joe Rogan 31:46 I would just think it's a really, um, fortuitous pipeline to insane wealth to become a president and then give speeches.

Duncan Trussell 31:54 Well, I, listen, if I was running a big corporation, you better believe I'd love to have a president come and give a five-minute speech. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:00 A friend of mine saw Hilla- Hillary Clinton speak once. And he s-

Duncan Trussell 32:03 What did she say?

Joe Rogan 32:04 He said it was really weird. It's like you're just watching someone get paid.

Duncan Trussell 32:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:11 You know, you're just watching some boring-ass speech. I remember when Giuliani, Giuliani came to California, and, uh, some people I know went to see that too, and it was the same sort of thing. They were like, "This is weird." This was, like, right after 9/11. And it's like, wow, you're just he- you're just here seeing a guy, like, get paid. They're just saying a bunch of things and they're, they're like, "Okay, another 10 more minutes and then I'm gonna get outta here." And I'm, what am I doing? Like, what do, what are those speeches? Ima- im- imagine a speech that's worth a half a million dollars. Imagine you're gonna bring a president in-

Duncan Trussell 32:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:46 ... and he's gonna give a speech to all your CEOs and all these folks and it's gonna be worth, in value to you, a half a million dollars.

Duncan Trussell 32:52 Half a million dollar speech is a great speech.

Joe Rogan 32:55 It's not like, it's not like Fluffy selling out the Dodgers stadium and crushing and doing stand-up and having people cry laughing for an hour and a half. No, no, no. He's just gonna go ... He's not an act, he's not the Rolling Stones, he's not Tool. He's just gonna go (laughs) up there and they're gonna talk about things that everybody already agrees on, like, "The environment is a real issue."

Duncan Trussell 33:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:16 "And we're gonna, we're gonna solve it-"

Duncan Trussell 33:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:18 "... bipartisan means." And there's these, these, these speeches that they give. Like, what are they saying? What kind of information do you have that you, y- like, "I have the secrets of the scrolls. I'll read them all to you."

Duncan Trussell 33:30 That's what I would need.

Joe Rogan 33:30 That's what's worth a half a million dollars.

Duncan Trussell 33:31 It's like w- I-

Joe Rogan 33:32 Or half a billion.

Duncan Trussell 33:33 If you press your taint seven times-

Joe Rogan 33:36 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 33:36 ... and then pull your earlobes down-

Joe Rogan 33:39 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 33:39 ... your hair will grow back.

Joe Rogan 33:40 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 33:41 And it actually works. That's a four-

Joe Rogan 33:43 Right, that's worth a half a million dollars.

Duncan Trussell 33:44 ... that's a half a million dollar speech, but yeah, it's w-

Joe Rogan 33:46 But they're worth half a billion at one point.

Duncan Trussell 33:49 Oh, you mean the presidents?

Joe Rogan 33:51 The, yeah, they get to, like, crazy wealth, like, wild amounts of money come at them.

Duncan Trussell 33:56 R- right. Yeah, I mean, it's like, what's funny about this sort of thing is, it's inarguably true. Like, it's just you can't describe it in any other way. It's like the, we can't just hand bags of money to people when we want them to, like, do, do things for us in the government. But, we can, like, hide it and do a speech. You can't ... The other, funny thing is there has to be a speech 'cause, like, that is a thing where it's like, well, how do you quantify the, the worth of a presidential speech? You can't have them come and say, like, "Paint the wall." Or, like, "Clean a bathroom," and you give them $400,000.

Joe Rogan 34:33 Right.

Duncan Trussell 34:33 It has to be a speech. And so it's like you, you, all of this stuff, it's all out there. It's 100% true. We're not being cynical or conspiratorial. It's fucking weird to pay s- anybody that much for a speech, much less somebody who's still in power and is going to be responsible for potentially passing legislation or helping legislation pass that's gonna massively impact whatever your particular industry is. It's obvious what's going on. But this is the kind of stuff, speaking of hypnosis, that's, like, just on the periphery, right? Like, if you wanna hang out in, uh, default reality, you're not really supposed to spend too much time thinking about that. You're not supposed to spend too much s- time thinking about the fact that private corporations and public government, uh, uh, g- uh, sectors of government are weirdly the same thing. They're connected by an invisible-

Joe Rogan 35:31 It's not even invisible.

Duncan Trussell 35:33 Barely invisible. Like, it's, it's just kind of shadowy ... You're not supposed to th- like, the idea is that private sector is supposed to be separate from the public sector. The private sector, if it influences the public sector, it does it via voting. That was the idea of democracy, voting. Not through, like, donating money to the campaigns-

Joe Rogan 35:51 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 35:52 ... that make them get elected 'cause they have the most money. That, you know, 'cause, like, a- there's probably the most charismatic, incredible, brilliant dude out there. He's got it all figured out, for real. Like, someone who makes JFK look like a complete fucking idiot, like someone like that good. And I don't know, he's living somewhere and maybe he's like, "Man, I think I could really help." But he's like, "How am I gonna raise $500 million to run a presidential campaign? I can't do that." So he doesn't run. He can't. And if he did try to run, he couldn't get the money to get to the point where the other ones have gotten to because they're being supported by the corporations. So, really what we've done is, like, we've managed to filter out all the other people who could be awesome because they can't get the money. It's so sad if you think about it. It really is. Remember this last election ...You're looking at the two choices. (laughs) Like, imagine the Olympics, you know, or, or, or any, like, any other competition. Imagine if, like, you're watching the two finalists in some Olympic, I don't know, gymnastic challenge. I don't know, like, uh, tumbling or, uh, ice skating. And like, they both are really bad at fucking ice skating. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:10 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 37:10 You know what I mean? And you gotta pick one. It's a binary now, but they're both, in different ways, they're like really bad at it, but you've gotta pick one. That's what really sucks. That, to me, is like the real embarrassment in our country right now is it's like w- you're giving us a shitty binary every fucking time. And if I say, "I don't wanna participate in the binary," people are like, "No, don't you get it? The state, our country's future is, is in your hands." And you're like, "Yeah, but I don't like either of them. They both seem awful. One, I don't like. The other, I don't like ne- I would not leave my kids alone with either of them. I don't wanna fucking support it at all." But we have to 'cause it's a binary, and do you not love your country? Do you not believe in democracy? But really, you're looking at like, surely there were better people than this. Like, surely this isn't, like, the greatest representation of leadership. And th- like, if there was, if... I'm sorry, I'm ranting a little too much here.

Joe Rogan 38:14 No, it's perfect.

Duncan Trussell 38:15 I- i- here's the thing. Imagine this. We could reverse all the conditioning everyone fucking has been injected with on one side or the other for the last 10 years, right? There, uh, then we, like, just present like, all right, here's this dude and this dude. One is Trump. One is Biden. Would you like either of these people to be president? Who would be like, "Oh, yeah, let's get the fucking, like, megalomaniac or let's get the old, like, man who can't really put a, a sentence together"? Those are definitely the best choices out of all the other awesome charismatic young people out there who you could pick. It's really depressing, man. It's really depressing, and it's sad that we're all at each other's throats fighting over these, like, you know what I mean, a, a stupid binary. Like, we're presented with a dumb binary. It's, uh... I don't know why I keep saying fucking binary.

Joe Rogan 39:08 No, it's a really good point. It's a really good point because that's what separates most people. It's not really their values. It's that you think the other person is on the other party and the other party is inherently bad. Everybody's doing it. It's, it's mostly incorrect. Most people agree on most things. Most people are good people, most people. We can't concentrate on the ones that aren't the most.

Duncan Trussell 39:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:37 And we can't align ourselves with the ones who aren't the most. The people that are the most assholeish on the left that freak you out are just like the people that are most assholeish on the right that freak you out.

Duncan Trussell 39:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:50 They're the, the, the fucking, the rare extremes because that's just the spectrum of fucking human beings.

Duncan Trussell 39:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:56 With any ideology, you're gonna have the worst examples and the best examples. You can meet Christians that literally make you wanna go to church.

Duncan Trussell 40:04 Yeah, sure.

Joe Rogan 40:04 They're like, "My God, the way this man carries himself, the way this woman lives her life, the way they talk, the way-"

Duncan Trussell 40:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:09 "... they treat people, I wanna be like that."

Duncan Trussell 40:12 It's incredible.

Joe Rogan 40:12 I want, I wanna be like that. Like, they can t- because they're good at it. They're really good.

Duncan Trussell 40:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:18 They're good. And there's, that's like that with everything.

Duncan Trussell 40:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:22 With everything.

Duncan Trussell 40:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:23 With politicians, with everything. And if we are, as a group, aligned with only one of two choices, and so you're either on this side or you're on that side, and you always look at the people across the fence, "Fuck you," and they look at you, "Fucking losers."

Duncan Trussell 40:36 Sad.

Joe Rogan 40:37 And it's dumb. It's dumb, and it's the best way to keep us divided. It's fucking stupid. Most people agree on most things, and the things that we disagree on, we should be able to talk through.

Duncan Trussell 40:50 Right, it shouldn't be. There should not be a prohibition on a, a conversation about- Shit, man, I don't think that whatever this system is that's picking the people we have to vote for, that gets it down to two people, I don't think this system is working very well. Like, any- Let's imagine w- you were designing a machine. The machine somehow could scan apples. You press a button, and the machine rolls out two of the best apples out of, like, 500 apples. I don't know why you want the machine. You just like good apples. But imagine, you press a button and two fucking worm-filled rotten apples roll out. And instead of being like, "Oh, shit, the machine's broken," you go like, "The machine works. Clearly, these are the best fucking apples. Pick one of them. You can only pick one of them. But don't say our machine's broken." (electronic music) "It's picking the best apples. Look, they're great." It's that s- And then, of course, there's gonna be, like, bitterness and fighting and, and, and, and division because it's like, like cognitive dissonance, man. It's like you, you have to, like, find a way to fix in your head that you have hitched your fucking wagon to a bad apple, right?

Joe Rogan 42:07 Yes, exactly.

Duncan Trussell 42:07 And that sucks, and, uh, and that's gonna create insecurity. Insecurity creates, uh, fear-

Joe Rogan 42:14 Resentment, fear.

Duncan Trussell 42:14 ... resentment, anger.

Joe Rogan 42:15 Anger, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 42:15 So then a- but then you just have a shit ton of insecure people battling each other because they're both somehow incapable of saying, "Yeah, our guy sucks. So does your guy. Yeah, our guy really sucks too." (laughs) The moment we start saying that, then things could get really cool.

Joe Rogan 42:31 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 42:31 That's where it could get really interesting 'cause, I mean, I think we, most people should agree, like, come on. Come on. Is your guy really that great? You pick which guy it is. Really? Is that the best example of, like, an American or a human being? Is that the best exam- I mean, would you want that guy to...... be, be alone with your kids. And I'm saying you could use this for anybody. You could use that test, if you don't have kids, would you want that, I don't know, uh, w- would you want that guy to be alone with, I don't know, uh, I can't fill in the blank if you don't have kids. I'm sorry for doing, like, uh, breed-

Joe Rogan 43:06 No, no, it's-

Duncan Trussell 43:06 ... breeder talk.

Joe Rogan 43:07 It's good, it's a good one, like the-

Duncan Trussell 43:09 But-

Joe Rogan 43:09 ... most, the people that you're, you're, you protect over.

Duncan Trussell 43:13 I, I, and I don't mean alone with your kids like they're gonna abuse your kids. I mean alone with your-

Joe Rogan 43:16 I know what you're saying.

Duncan Trussell 43:17 Like, are they gonna be able to, uh, tend to your kid? Are they gonna remember to feed your kids? Are they gonna, like, keep your kids from doing all the crazy shit kids do? Will they even be able to pick your kid up and put your kid in the crib? Like, are they capable of being alone with your children? If the answer is no, you gotta find someone else for the fucking job-

Joe Rogan 43:37 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 43:37 ... because they're in charge of all of us!

Joe Rogan 43:39 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 43:40 They're in charge of all of us! You gotta find someone who can, like, d- who's like, who's going to, like, be able to do shit that, like, keeps all of our fucking kids okay. You know? And if they can't be alone with kids, then probably they shouldn't be president, if you ask me. They shouldn't be president if they can't drive a car. I don't think they should be president. This isn't an ageist thing to say. I mean, it's whatever age you are, you should be able to drive a car. You should know how to, like, get in a car and drive it down the road and use your turn signals and what the speed limit is. It, it teaches you what everyone goes through every fucking day when they have to drive to work, when they're driving. So to know how to drive a car, you should be able to be alone with kids. I think this is (laughs) we should put this in the fucking Constitution.

Joe Rogan 44:23 Right.

Duncan Trussell 44:24 Like, this, thi- we should have built into how we're doing these things, like, prerequisites, prerequisites for the job, just like any other job. You know? It doesn't have to be, like, intense prerequisites, but it- it's just really depressing, you know, when there's a, a prohibition on just pointing out the obvious shit.

Joe Rogan 44:42 But here's the problem, what are the alternatives? We'd have to blow up the system. And if you wanted to blow up the system, the people that are in power would have to lose power. They're not gonna-

Duncan Trussell 44:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:51 ... do that. The FBI's like, "You know what? We're not the best at investigating shit. You guys take over." The CIA's like, "Qu- you know, intelligence, have we done the best? I don't know."

Duncan Trussell 45:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:01 "Maybe there's a better option. Why don't you guys take it?"

Duncan Trussell 45:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:03 (laughs) That's fucking never gonna happen, ever, ever, ever, ever.

Duncan Trussell 45:07 No.

Joe Rogan 45:07 The idea is just to continue to improve upon the systems that we already have. They're not perfect, but they're better than nothing. And if we blow it all up, who the fuck is gonna take... If we blow it all up, it's William Wallace up in this bitch. Okay? If, if you decide-

Duncan Trussell 45:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:21 ... that this, this government no longer has power over the people, and then a bunch of people start assuming power and saying that they have power, you got a real fucking problem.

Duncan Trussell 45:29 I don't think you gotta blow it up. I don't-

Joe Rogan 45:30 Don't, don't blow it up.

Duncan Trussell 45:31 I don't think it's even necessary.

Joe Rogan 45:33 But that's what I'm saying, it's like that's the only way it's going to change.

Duncan Trussell 45:36 I think there's other ways it could change, but, eh, what it would require is, you know, okay, this is-

Joe Rogan 45:42 But when I, when I say change, I mean, like, a complete restructuring. I don't mean, like, let's make it so the politics don't get bought out by money. I mean a way where people have to be informed about the things that they have opinions on that are super critical.

Duncan Trussell 45:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:58 So, like, there's a real responsibility for everyone that's involved in all these decision-making aspects of voting to know what the fuck the consequences are for real.

Duncan Trussell 46:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:10 The problem is when it comes to certain things like climate change, right? You say, "Climate change," say, "You don't, you don't ag- agree with the consensus of climate change?"

Duncan Trussell 46:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:18 If you don't jump onboard immediately, people o- wanna bark at you, and very f- very few of them have done any research.

Duncan Trussell 46:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:27 And I'm not saying that climate change is not real. I'm just saying when something's like that where it's like, "This is what it is, and the scientists a-" Uh, almost immediately, I'm like, "Hold on."

Duncan Trussell 46:39 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 46:40 "Hold on. How, where are you getting this information from, and why do you think it's going to be this insane disaster? Are you sure?"

Duncan Trussell 46:50 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:51 "Are you absolutely sure? Or is it possible that this has, this has happened throughout history? That people have always talked about whether it's the Ice Age is coming or whether it's a... There's always been some big fearmongering thing about some climate disaster. It's always happened."

Duncan Trussell 47:09 You know what's funny to me about that stuff, is people take themselves out of the climate. So it's like people talk about climate change as though the climate were something external-

Joe Rogan 47:19 Right.

Duncan Trussell 47:19 ... to the human. Whereas, like, there's an in- an interior climate-

Joe Rogan 47:23 Right.

Duncan Trussell 47:23 ... like a s- a subconscious climate, a, a semiconscious climate that, like, is the sum total of the interior lives of everyone on the planet. And that gets left out 'cause we can't quantify-

Joe Rogan 47:35 That is a climate. It's a climate of fear.

Duncan Trussell 47:36 It's a-

Joe Rogan 47:37 It's a climate of compassion.

Duncan Trussell 47:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:38 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 47:38 What- yeah, whatever it could be.

Joe Rogan 47:40 Whatever it is.

Duncan Trussell 47:40 But it's, and there's storms.

Joe Rogan 47:41 Yup.

Duncan Trussell 47:41 There's storms-

Joe Rogan 47:42 (sighs)

Duncan Trussell 47:42 ... hurricanes that rip through that.

Joe Rogan 47:44 Yeah, civil war.

Duncan Trussell 47:45 Civil war or just riots or, or-

Joe Rogan 47:47 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 47:48 ... war. And, and-

Joe Rogan 47:49 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 47:49 ... so whenever you're seeing a war happen, you are looking at, like, a, a sort of subjective, internal, yet collective societal hurricane happening-

Joe Rogan 47:59 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 47:59 ... and destroying stuff, but it's doing it via, like, the human system, the human biome. And we... So, to me, uh, I think that, that the f- there isn't a quick fix to this. But, uh, Carl Jung, Carl Jung, you know who Carl Jung is? He's like Freud's-

Joe Rogan 48:18 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 48:18 ... p- okay. Carl Jung... I'm, I'm sure a million people have already said this on your podcast. His idea was that leaders are a projection of the collective unconscious. So whatever the world leader is that you're looking at, you're actually looking at a, a physical representation of the internal, subjective lives of the collective. Right? So when you see, like, a, uh, Biden, you're seeing the shadow of society. When you're seeing a Trump, it's our shadow. That's what you're looking at. Like, this is where, uh...... where the inner, uh, connectivity, interdependence comes up. It's like we're all connected. Whoever the person is that ends up being the mouthpiece for all of us, we all have a tiny little thread of quantum energy injected into that thing and we're kind of looking at ourselves. Part of ourselves we might not want to admit is there. So, the idea would be, if you can find in your own little internal climate a way to cool it down, cool it down. Stop heating up so much. Get peace.

Joe Rogan 49:26 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 49:26 Stop... I remember a long time ago, man, you talked to me about this. About, like, it was really, it stuck with me for the longest time because I was more turbulent back then, but it's this idea of, like, maintaining an even keel. You know what I mean? Find a way to be stable consistently every day in your own life and stability will appear naturally around you, right? But if you are prone to reactivity, anger, freak outs, whatever it is, uh, mania, whatever the thing is, then the people around you, they're always kind of worried, like, "What version of this dude am I getting today? Am I gonna get the happy version or am I gonna get the freaked out version? Am I gonna get the angry version? I'm gonna get the cool version." And if it's really extreme the way your behavior is warping and shifting, you could only expect chaos around you, because people get nervous around instability, right? So, the... Then if that was... If all of us were reactive, like if suddenly a wave of reactivity swept through the whole planet and people started thinking it was normal to, like, pendulum between moods and to react to the moods and, like, "This is me!" Or, "What the fuck?!" Or extremes, then you would expect the representation of all of us to be kind of fucked up. And so the idea is, if we could all kind of calm down a little bit, find some peace, find a way to, like, be actually calm, not repressed. Like, you know, when you're freaking out on mushrooms and you try to pretend you're not.

Joe Rogan 50:54 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 50:54 Or when you go to a party where they give weed. I don't know if you've ever been to an edible weed party-

Joe Rogan 50:59 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 50:59 ... and everyone's trying to pretend they're not freaking the fuck out.

Joe Rogan 51:03 (cymbals crashing) (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 51:03 (laughs) Ahh! The worst parties. But-

Joe Rogan 51:06 Dude, I was a judge at a cannabis cup.

Duncan Trussell 51:08 There you go.

Joe Rogan 51:09 Ugh. I was, like, seven, eight different flavors in, 'cause you have l-... Like-

Duncan Trussell 51:14 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 51:14 ... they give you, like, a pill box.

Duncan Trussell 51:16 Brutal.

Joe Rogan 51:16 You know, like a Monday through Sunday pill box? And each one of them has a different strain and you're supposed to test each strain.

Duncan Trussell 51:23 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 51:23 By the time you get to Wednesday... (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 51:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:28 You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Duncan Trussell 51:30 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 51:31 I remember talking to this dude who was telling me about the cannabis community. It was really interesting, because, uh, I was b- beyond barbecued to the point where, like-

Duncan Trussell 51:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:41 ... words were coming out and I would hear the sounds that the words would make and I would see the words coming out of the person's mouth, but what I got was feelings.

Duncan Trussell 51:52 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 51:52 I got, like, bars of feelings.

Duncan Trussell 51:55 Wow.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Like registered feelings above each word. So as this guy was talking, I w-... I could tell what he was trying to do, and he was trying to say that he loves and appreciates the cannabis community and he feels very close to them, a- as a community and that they all have each other's backs, "And I know if anything goes wrong with me, the cannabis community has my back." And it was this, this thing that he was doing when he was c- communicating with me because I was so barbecued. I got to realize, like, that's what we're doing all the time.

Duncan Trussell 52:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:25 We're doing all the time. We're not always just trying to get our words out.

Duncan Trussell 52:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:29 We're trying to, like, project a tone and, and, and figure out a way to get people to like us more.

Duncan Trussell 52:38 Yes.

Joe Rogan 52:38 Or, or think, be more impressed by us, or-

Duncan Trussell 52:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:42 Or... And, and that's like a giant percentage of what people do when they talk all day.

Duncan Trussell 52:49 Yeah. Well, it's insecurity. I mean it-

Joe Rogan 52:52 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 52:52 It's like the idea is y- you have... I just read this shit, man. It blew my fucking mind. Here's the idea. Everything is your mind, right? So, not like spiritual woo-woo-y. Literally everything you see is your mind, because your sense organs are taking in phenomena and that's all getting translated via your brain into something we call reality. So literally, when you're seeing the color yellow, you're seeing your own mind. That's the way your mind translates whatever the particular wavelength of yellow is into the thing that you call yellow. It's literally your mind. Everything you're seeing is your mind. That's just the way it is. But, what happens is we start thinking it's not our mind. There's a me and a you. Every... There's an outside me and an inside me, even though this is 100% not the case. There is probably something outside of you, but that's not what you're seeing.

Joe Rogan 53:52 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 53:52 You're seeing a incredible symphony of neurotransmitters that are all harmonizing in a way that produces your reality. So when you see an enemy or a friend, when you see your, someone you love and someone you hate, all your mind. The feeling of love, your mind. The feeling of hate, your mind. So, when you get really fucking confused, not realizing this is all in my mind, you start picking shit out. This person, that person, this thing, that thing, and you would start attaching to it. You start attaching to it to try to feel better, right? So you're like, "If I can make this person like me, I'm gonna feel better. Now I'm gonna feel good again or something's gonna make me feel better." And this is what, what you're talking about. This is where-

Joe Rogan 54:37 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 54:37 ... you begin the never-ending cycle, uh, in Buddhism called samsara, where it's just a never-ending attempt to rearrange your mind into some way that is going to give you a sense of like, "Okay, everything's fine now."

Joe Rogan 54:53 Never-ending.

Duncan Trussell 54:54 Never-ending.

Joe Rogan 54:55 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 54:55 Na- not only never-ending in this life, but literally zillions of incarnations you've been doing the same fucking thing over and over again in different ways. And so the moment you realize, "This is my mind. This is all in my mind," then all of a sudden...... that's when you can- that's when shit gets really interesting, because now you, you, you, you might begin to change the way you start trying to get shit out of your mind. Out of, out of like, you know, uh, how, uh, getting the thing you desire, pushing away. You stop defending as much too.

Joe Rogan 55:28 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 55:28 You're defending against your own fucking mind. I mean, you know what I mean? Like so many people are super defensive all the time.

Joe Rogan 55:34 Right.

Duncan Trussell 55:34 They're trying to keep themselves from being hurt, which is really smart, but what they're defending themselves from is words, perceived opinions, real like high level social animal shit. They're not defending themselves against bear attacks, lions, arrows. They're defending themselves against like psychic impacts. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 55:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 55:58 So it's not even a danger. Like when someone says some shitty thing to you and you get triggered and then you react to that shitty thing, like experiment with not reacting. See what happens if you don't get revenge when the person does the thing to you they always do that you get revenge for. You just don't get revenge. You just don't do the thing that you thought you had to do or they're gonna do it again. Watch what happens. Nothing. You're fine. Nothing happens. You don't need the aggression, the defense. So yeah, man. That's really interesting to me. It's just your mind, and you're at war with your own fucking mind.

Joe Rogan 56:33 All day long for the rest of your life. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 56:36 All day long for the rest of your life.

Joe Rogan 56:39 Ugh.

Duncan Trussell 56:40 Every day a raging war against yourself. I mean, again, I'm not saying that you don't need from time to time to set boundaries and tell someone, "Don't fucking do that." But m- uh, at least for me personally, a lot of the time the stuff that like I was like getting all bristly about, it really was just my own- it was my own bullshit. There wasn't really anything to get bristly about or to defend against there.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 57:07 And when you start doing that kind of like internal peace work, man, all of a sudden shit around you starts changing 'cause it's your mind. The idea is if this is all your mind, then if your mind calm down, maybe all this stuff around you will calm down too.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 57:25 That's the idea. It might actually be the same thing, so if you start getting calm, if you start getting a little space between you and your thoughts, just maybe, just maybe that your enemies won't seem quite like enemies anymore. The people that you have been waking up in the middle of the night thinking about pouring acid in their mouth.

Joe Rogan 57:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 57:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:51 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 57:51 Maybe you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll realize it's like the, the example that gets, that I read, and then I'll shut the fuck up, I'm sorry everybody.

Joe Rogan 57:59 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 57:59 The example that I read, the example that I read was it's like someone shoots an arrow at you and they miss. It lands at your feet. This is when someone says something shitty to you or you get upset about something someone's doing. You don't see that person for weeks maybe, but the example is the arrow lands at your feet and you pick it up and you start stabbing yourself with the arrow going, "Why did they shoot me with this arrow? I can't believe they did that." Every time you bring them to your mind, every time you wake up thinking about them, every time you have that fake conversation when you see them and you're gonna one-up 'em.

Joe Rogan 58:32 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 58:32 That's just you going, "Aah, yeah, why did they shoot me with this arrow?"

Joe Rogan 58:36 Right.

Duncan Trussell 58:37 You know, you're just massacring yourself with your own mind. You don't have to do that. You actually can stop. You don't have to constantly be stabbing yourself.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Yeah, it's great advice.

Duncan Trussell 58:50 I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 58:51 No, no, no. It really is great advice. And th- that's the problem with the human mind is it doesn't come with an owner's manual and they're all different, you know? Again, some of them are lawn mowers, some of them are Ferraris.

Duncan Trussell 59:05 Well, I mean-

Joe Rogan 59:07 We don't come with a fucking owner's manual.

Duncan Trussell 59:09 Nothing. Nothing.

Joe Rogan 59:10 Yeah, and you're, you're, you're sorting out some of the most complex things. You're, you're sorting out languages that are different, emotions that are different.

Duncan Trussell 59:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:21 Cultures that are different.

Duncan Trussell 59:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:23 Genders that are different. All these fucking different things being sorted out in real time while we melt the Earth. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 59:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:31 Why the fucking ocean's filled up with our garbage.

Duncan Trussell 59:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:35 And the temperature keeps rising and everyone's like, "Don't worry, it's fine."

Duncan Trussell 59:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:39 "Buy this Miami beachfront condo." (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 59:42 Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah, that's so sad.

Joe Rogan 59:46 But the thing is like what, uh, you know, there's too many variables. I don't think we have a mind that's designed for the variables that exist in modern society. There's too many variables because you're getting news from the entire world, so you're getting in everything catastrophic that happens amongst seven point-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 ... whatever billion people.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 That's too much data, okay? And you're, you're interacting with people that are nowhere near you primarily.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 (laughs) Most of your human interactions-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 ... are coming via cyber world.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 Which is fucking bizarre to accept. And then on top of that, you're probably having to sit through traffic and you're probably stacked on top of a bunch of people in an apartment building.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 And you're probably annoyed that there's so many fucking people around you all- it's an unnatural state.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 For most people.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 Most people. And it's, it's all rapidly changing while we remain the same, so it's all putting these new demands on us-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 ... while we remain the same biological entity that existed when the railroad was a big freak out.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 The trains are gonna kill people. They go too fast.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:01 Too fast.

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 That's what they thought, right?

Duncan Trussell 1:01:02 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Didn't they think like 35 miles an hour or something like that?

Duncan Trussell 1:01:05 35, after 35-

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 You're dead.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:06 ... you're dead fucking meat.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 (farts)

Duncan Trussell 1:01:07 People are just gonna keel... It's the same thing we did with 5G.... they were doing that with trains, when they're like, when they-

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 That might be, that might be real, though. That might be getting us right now-

Duncan Trussell 1:01:15 5G?

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 ... we don't know about it yet.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:16 Zapping us?

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 You know what someone said to me about 5G?

Duncan Trussell 1:01:18 What?

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 They said that 5G is eventually going to evolve to the pla- point where it could be implemented as, like, uh, a radar system in someone's home.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:28 I said that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Is that you?

Duncan Trussell 1:01:30 Yeah, I read that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Tell me, tell me what you said.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:32 Oh, damn it, Joe. You know, man. Again, let me just-

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:01:35 We're in clown suits. You know what? We're in fucking clown suits.

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 I'm sorry. I forgot it was you that told me.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:39 So, no-

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 I was trying to remember.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:40 Oh, no, I don't care. Here- here's the thing. Whatever I say after this, it's probably wrong. Uh, but I did- 'cause I, 'cause I, I go on really weird rabbit holes on the internet, and the, that, the problem is, I don't remember where I get the data from, okay? So-

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Jamie'll find the data.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 But what was the premise of it?

Duncan Trussell 1:01:55 Premise is that, potentially, 5G could be used as some kind of radar system that, like, it's so powerful that you could theoretically see people moving inside of buildings using 5G somehow. There might be a way to, like, look at the way the 5G is being, like, I don't know, moved.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 But doesn't that make sense, though? That, like, ultimately, that's gonna happen? And if, if we have phones, and everybody carries a phone with them, right? So you know where you're v- Unless you've, you're one of those really rebellious ultra-marathon runners who puts his fucking phone in his-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:26 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 ... desk drawer when he gets into work and just leaves it there all day-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 ... most people have their phone on them. So there's proximity tracking, right?

Duncan Trussell 1:02:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 You, you know where you are at all points in time.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 And if you have some sort of a thing that's just like, "You know, the Misinformation and Mal-information Board is, uh, r- r- requiring that we install these in all chips," and all that is doing is utilizing 5D, 5G to get a sense of everything that's in the space.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 It would be im- i- i- l- I don't know if it's possible with today's technology, but that doesn't seem outrageous at all, that they would ... It just, the fact that you can send a fucking video instantaneously to your friend in Italy, like that. (snaps fingers)

Duncan Trussell 1:03:04 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Like that.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 You send a video. They get it on their iMessage. "Oh, shit, that looks cool."

Duncan Trussell 1:03:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 That is wild. Th- the idea that it could track y- your movements and know the 3D space around it, that doesn't even seem outrageous.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:16 It's not that outrageous. I mean, uh, yeah, I don't think people really like to deal with how surveilled we already are, and because the surveillance is being ... is broken up among a-

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Fast computers, 5G networks, and radar that passes-

Duncan Trussell 1:03:31 Ah! We need it. All right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 ... through walls are bringing X-ray vision closer to reality. It's real. Yeah, it makes sense.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:36 There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 So there it is.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:38 So that was ideas, like, because-

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 Thank god it's real.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:41 Well, uh, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 We would've cut it out. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:03:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 We didn't want to get in trouble with the v- the, the new board.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:45 Mal-information, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 That would be mal-information.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:48 That would be-

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 That'd be mi- misinformation. That's even worse than mal-information.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:52 Th- Dude, imagine if, like, the shit got in your house. That's where it gets really creepy. Like, somehow, the fact, you're like, "All right, well, it's, it's just the Ministry of Truth on Twitter, whatever, dude. Twitter's dumb. I, I don't care anyway. It's just the Ministry of Truth on Facebook or Inso- I don't care."

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 Well, that's what TikTok is.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:07 TikTok, whatever, I don't fucking care. You really don't care. It's like ... But imagine if it was just on screens, i- i- in your house, right? Like, if hanging in your house, there was, I don't know, just a light that, if someone starts speaking misinformation, it starts glowing red or something, and you're like, "Oh, shit. He was s- What? That thing you just said, it's like, the light's blinking, so it's bullshit." (laughs) It would be, it would be fucking horrible. It would be scary. But somehow, because it's like we still externalize the social media as, like, an outside space, even though it's in our house, it's in our pockets right next to us all the time-

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:43 ... it seems like, "All right, you know, the, whatever that is, it's just on the outside. It's not on the inside yet," but it's, really, it's, it's, it's kinda is. You turn on the TV, I don't care what you're fucking watching, man. I mean, it's like, okay, it's fucked up that everybody knows that most of our politicians in some way, shape, or form are making money from various-

Joe Rogan 1:05:08 How much do you think they make? Like, how much do you think Obama's worth? Let's take a guess.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:13 Incalculable. Who knows?

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 Let's take a guess.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:16 A billion? A billion?

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 How much do you think he's worth, Jamie?

1:05:19 Uh-

Duncan Trussell 1:05:19 School price is right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:21 500 million sounds like a good number.

1:05:23 I'll go with ... I'll go lower. I'll go three.

1:05:26 Three. Three's good.

1:05:26 300.

1:05:26 Three's reasonable. He's a reasonable man. Let's see.

1:05:30 Um.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:31 Well, those numbers are wrong. The how much is-

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 I know, it's-

Duncan Trussell 1:05:33 ... someone's worth.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 I don't know how to find it correctly.

1:05:35 (laughs) Maybe ... No, I think that'd probably be pretty public.

1:05:37 It's like-

1:05:38 It's like an Elon Musk type deal.

1:05:39 And when I type it, everything's saying 70.

1:05:41 70 million? That's it?

1:05:43 Hm.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:44 Well, aga- again, we're talking about, like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Hm.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:47 ... the way this gets quantified.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 (laughs)

1:05:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:05:50 The quantification mechanism is like-

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 But what's it worth? What's the value of it?

Duncan Trussell 1:05:55 Y- Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 Billions.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:55 Well, yeah. You could nav-

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:57 You, like, it's like they, they have shit we will never even hear about.

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 Elon bought Twitter for 44 billion. What do you think it's worth (laughs) to be the president? You know, that should put it into perspective.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Twit- Twitter's worth 44 billion. What's it worth to be the president of the United States? It's gotta be worth 20.

1:06:11 Yeah, I'm also seeing Michelle's worth at least 70 also.

1:06:15 Going up.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:16 How about that?

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 It's a lot of money. Congratulations. Look, he was a great president. I, if out of all the presidents that would speak, I would like to see, to just see him speak.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:24 He was really good at giving speeches, huh?

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 He was a fantastic statesman.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:28 God, those were the good old days.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 You know, whether or not, you know, he, you know, I don't, who the fuck knows what it's like to be the president? But as far as, like, a representative of the United States, I think he was the best ever.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:38 The best ever. We've got that wonderful interview he did. I don't remember who, what show he was on, where they asked him about UFOs, and he, like, really did a kind of micro pause or something, like UF-

Joe Rogan 1:06:49 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:49 ... in the UFO boards, it always pu- pops up every once in a while. It's like this weird moment where he's like, "I, I can't talk about that," but it's like, on his face-

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:57 ... you kinda see this, like, thing, that if you're into UFOs, you're like, "Oh, fuck." He's, like, bummed that he can't talk about it, but he knows something.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 I'm sure they know something. I don't know how much the president gets to know. Uh, y- 'cause the problem is a guy like Trump. Like, what would keep him from blabbing? (laughs) ... if, if they told him ... I mean, he was on a show once and they asked him about UFOs too, and he said something about he, he knows some things, but he can't talk about them.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:20 Yeah. There's a lot of things-

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 But just that saying that-

Duncan Trussell 1:07:22 ... that he can't talk about.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 ... is y- that means they're real. If you say you know some things and you t- can't talk about them, you're essentially saying they're real.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:30 Because if it's like, "It's all nonsense," wouldn't you tell the people it's all nonsense? Tell us it's nonsense, sir. Make me sleep well at night.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 You're the president. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:07:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 But if you say, "There's some things I know and I can't talk about them."

Duncan Trussell 1:07:40 I mean, we're post that.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 I think that's, I think that's basically what he said.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:43 But we're p- I- aren't we post thinking UFOs are fake now? Like, I, like now if you-

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:47 ... if you believe UFOs are bullshit, you're in a minority now, because you're talking about the US government has been doing, like, uh, hearings where they are saying, "Yeah, some of this stuff we don't know, but we've picked it up," so it's ... the phenomena is real. It's no longer just swamp gas. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 The question is, how many of them are drones? How many of them are super sophisticated drones from other countries? How many of them are drones that we have that are top secret, just like the Blackbird and Stealth Bomber and all these different-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 ... things they've worked on? How many of those are top secret drones? And then is there anything that's not? Like that tic-tac one that Commander David Fravor found off the coast of San Diego-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 ... in 2004. That's the craziest one, 'cause there's multiple jets watched this thing. They got it on radar. They got a ... they got visual. They got a video of it taking off at an insane rate of speed. They don't know what the fuck that thing was. No visible heat signature.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 Moving at, at speeds that are impossible to describe how fast it is. Going from 50,000 feet to 50 in a second.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:59 'Cause that's how, like ... they said it just a- it just appeared there, you know? 'Cause a, I think a radar blip, is it a second? Uh, how long is a ra-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:06 No idea.

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 Or is it, like, continuous now? How do they work? Do they work the same way they used to work in those old movies that go boop, bleep, bloop, bloop? Remember, like, Close Encounters?

Duncan Trussell 1:09:16 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:16 You see, you see the things in the radar.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:18 Oh, I've seen what you're sa-

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 I mean, it's gotta be more sophisticated than that now, right?

Duncan Trussell 1:09:20 It's like ... yeah. Now, it's just like, uh, you ... it's looking at ripples or something. Like, it's not-

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:24 There's no space in between. It's just instantaneously you could see whatever the fuck it is.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 So, whatever the fuck this thing was, they tracked this, and this thing moved at a way that is indescribable.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:34 Look-

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 They, they can't, they can't imagine some way using the methods that we know about propulsion systems and applying it to this craft and getting it to move the way it did.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:43 We ... I ... we've said this, I've said this on ... I feel like we've said everything once on your podcast by now, but, like, coral reef, some blind creature starts developing an optic nerve. And all of a sudden, one day after billions of years or millions of years evolution, the eye opens. You see the coral reef instead of just having to, like, sense movement in the fucking coral reef.

Joe Rogan 1:10:07 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:07 That's gonna be a crazy moment for the first thing to see that when all it's been feeling are these, like, weird shifts and movements. So, probably, whatever this technology is, and if you, like, go, like, Terrence McKenna and look at technology as some kind of, you know, appendage of the, uh, uh, planet, some new, like, sensory apparatus that's, uh, peering out of the collective, then, uh, probably we're just getting the ability to see what's really out there. And what's really out there is probably what people have been saying for thousands of years, people who spent lifetimes meditating in the forest and went through all this weird shit, and they started seeing it too. What's out there is enumerable forms of life and intelligence that aren't locked into the classic idea of what life looks like, carbon-based life.

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:01 We're just starting to see the gods. That's what they used to call them. The gods, angels, whatever. Theirs is m- d- devas or, uh, uh, jinn.

Joe Rogan 1:11:10 And that's what our technology is. It's enab-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:12 It's starting to pick up that.

Joe Rogan 1:11:13 ... enabling us ... it's, yeah, enabling us to see something that's always been here.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:17 Always. Just living with us, like, we're, we're ... and we're gonna have to deal with that. It's gonna-

Joe Rogan 1:11:22 Doesn't that make sense-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:24 ... that we, we've been colonized a long time ago, and they just go in and out of the ocean, do as they f- please-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:30 ... move in ways that we can't track, we don't understand? And it wasn't until really, really recently that they've been able to do, use radar to detect them.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 Like, when was the invention of radar?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:41 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 Was that 150 years ago now, right?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:44 No idea.

Joe Rogan 1:11:44 When did they figure out radar? Imagine before radar. Fucking what? What'd you see?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:50 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:51 You don't have a video. There's no video yet.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:53 No video.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 V- video didn't even h- start happening until the 1800s, right?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:56 Y-

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 So, at what point in time were they supposed to, like, have, like, an accurate re- ... it would be so easy to spy on us.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:02 You had to carve it into a pyramid (laughs) if you saw it.

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 (laughs) Anybody believe you?

Duncan Trussell 1:12:05 You had to take a chisel and car-

Joe Rogan 1:12:07 That's Mikey. He's full of shit. He's always talking about being visited by gods.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:11 You're carving a UFO into the pyramid again?

Joe Rogan 1:12:14 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:12:15 Stop it! Stop writing on the f- pyramid!

Joe Rogan 1:12:18 You know, when you discuss ancient civilizations and you look at the, the Great Pyramids of Egypt and all the structures of Egypt, they're so magnificent that you have to wonder, like, what was that society like? What was that culture like when those things were up and running? What was that like, man?

Duncan Trussell 1:12:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:36 'Cause I am ... I'm, I mean, I'm absolutely not an archeologist or a historian, but when I look at those structures and someone says that those things are 5,000 years old and you think about how l- long ago that was, like, how fucking smart were those people?

Duncan Trussell 1:12:56 Very smart.

Joe Rogan 1:12:57 What ... how ... what ... how did they know all that? How did they do it? What was it like living amongst them? What the fuck, man? The Great Pyramid of Giza is, like, 2,300,000 stones.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:11 They're monstrous. They're so ...... the, the way it's engineered is so beyond imagination, that 5,000 years ago, people could ... But, obviously, they did. So, what were they like, man? And what happened? What is ... I think it's the Graham Hancock, Randall Carlson idea.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:29 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:13:29 I think that we had r- ... Human beings had reached a veer- very high level of sophistication, and we got fucking flat-lined again by comet impacts.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:39 That's the Younger Dryas Impact Theory, and it makes a fuck load of sense when you s- see things like the pyramids, when you see thing ... Like, the ... All these old structures, especially ones they can't really date that well. Like, that's the dirty secret about that carbon dating stuff. You gotta date carbon. You're not gonna date rocks, right? So, you have to find, like, organic material in between-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:59 ... the rocks, stuff that's around the rocks.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:01 You just don't really know when everybody cut it. You just make a really good assessment-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:05 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 ... based on the carbon-based data, you know. But the thing is, like, you can't ... You don't know when they cut that. When did they move that?

Duncan Trussell 1:14:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:12 When did ... How many thousands of years did it take to set up the civilization? Where the fuck did it come from?

Duncan Trussell 1:14:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:18 How did they get these stones that were many tons from a quarry that was 500 miles away? How did they do that? Like, I think that's the story of some of the stones in the King's Chamber. They figure ... See if that's ... this is correct. I think they figured out that some of the stones in the King's Chamber were from 500 miles away.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:40 The King's Chamber is the one that looks like a factory or something. Like, it's weird. Like the one that's, like, in th- ... the ins- ... What is the chamber?

Joe Rogan 1:14:48 The King's Chamber, they c- ... I don't know why they call it the King's Chamber. Um, I think it might have to do with just the size of the stones and-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:55 That-

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 ... the magnificence of it.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:57 Yeah, whatever the fuck that was.

Joe Rogan 1:14:59 I don't know. Why did, why do they call it the King's Chamber? So, anyway, um, see if you, if you, uh, find the, the King's Chamber, the stones for the King's Chamber were cut from a quarry 500 miles away. Google that. See if that's correct 'cause I think that was one of the big mysteries. Like, how the fuck are they moving this stuff? It's not even that it was, like, right next to it and they slowly rolled it into place. They took it from 500 miles away. "Archeologists uncover the ............................" Yeah, look at that, "The pyramid stones were known to have been transported from over 500 miles away, but archeologists do not agree on how the ancient Egyptians ..." I guess it probably says pulled that off. That's just the headline. How the fuck could they do it? There's a new article on construction.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:47 That's from 2017.

Joe Rogan 1:15:48 Oh.

Narrator 1:15:48 That's super new, but-

Joe Rogan 1:15:49 But all of it is just guessing. The, the bottom line is, those ... there's so many stones. I think the numbers that have ... I had a bid on it. If you cut and placed 10 stones a day, that's 664 years for one pyramid. So, they, they think they pulled them on ropes and pulleys and shit, but, dude, they're, they're cut so perfectly, you can't get a razor blade in between them.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:10 I mean, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:16:11 It's wild.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:11 It's ... What's funny is, like, we ... To try to understand stuff, we ... Obviously, we try to use a precedent, like, our own technology. So, we use the height of our technology and then try to think about how they did it. But if we're talking ab- ... I mean, it's possible that we only exist ... Well, we exist in more than one reality. Like, that we're in th- ... We're in time-space right now, but there's aspects of us that are outside of time-space. There's aspects of us that, uh, we call our soul or whatever. It's some hyper-dimensional formation that, like, flowers with each incarnation. Like, when a flower blooms, that's your life, and then it dies-

Joe Rogan 1:16:54 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:54 ... and another flower blooms. That's your next life, and another flower blooms. So, if that's what's going on, and some civilization figured that out, so that instead of being unconscious about the greater whatever-the-fuck-it-is, the, the hyper-dimensional tree that we're all, like, fruiting on, then God knows what you could do in that point. You could just make the tree grow a pyramid maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:17:19 You know? Like, in the same way it grew you.

Narrator 1:17:21 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:17:21 You know, you could just make it, like, gr- ... like, bring stones from ... Who knows? You know, we think we're so advanced. Like, I'm sure that, uh, however cognizant, uh, a monkey is, like, when it's like, using a tool or showing its friends how to use a tool, or its kids how to, like, break open f- ... a nut, or how to use the stick to get the ants out, I'm sure it's like, (laughs) "We are very advanced." Like, "This is a very advanced thing it's doing." It probably thinks it's, like, advanced if it could think that.

Joe Rogan 1:17:53 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:54 Similarly, we think we're so fucking advanced with our internet and all that stuff. It just might be that, like, we're, we're the same way. We're just putting a stick in a ants nest.

Joe Rogan 1:18:04 What Jamie just pulled up there is what the pyramid originally looked like.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:07 That gold capstone.

Joe Rogan 1:18:08 It had a gold capstone. It was covered ... I think it was in limestone. Is that what it was covered with?

Narrator 1:18:14 Mm-hmm. Yeah, this ... The r- ... thing I have pulled says, "In 1303 AD, there's an earthquake that loosened up some of it," and I guess that's when they took it all.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:23 Was it-

Joe Rogan 1:18:23 And then people started stealing it-

Narrator 1:18:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:25 ... and they used it to build stuff.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:26 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:18:27 Which is so dumb. Imagine. Imagine they stole pieces of rock from one of the greatest constructions human beings have ever known to build whatever shitty thing they were gonna make.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:39 Probably a toilet.

Joe Rogan 1:18:39 (laughs)

Narrator 1:18:40 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:18:40 There was probably someone shitting in the-

Joe Rogan 1:18:42 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:18:42 ... fucking stones of the pyramid-

Joe Rogan 1:18:45 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:18:45 ... built by the great masters.

Joe Rogan 1:18:46 (laughs) Oh, 100%.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:47 Go up to the pyramid. Find a, uh, stone that you like in your bidet.

Joe Rogan 1:18:51 Yeah, "I'm gonna build a sauna-"

Duncan Trussell 1:18:53 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:54 "... out of the outside of the pyramid."

Narrator 1:18:55 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:18:55 No