Joe Rogan Experience #1906 - David Goggins

1. 0:00 – 1:28

   Vacations vs. “mental aid stations”: how Goggins recovers without stopping

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. DGDavid Goggins0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Now, you do a podcast every fucking day, man?

   3. NANarrator0:15

      Pretty much.

   4. DGDavid Goggins0:15

      God ...

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      This, uh, this week, every day.

   6. DGDavid Goggins0:16

      Don't give a fuck, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      But I was just on vacation.

   8. DGDavid Goggins0:20

      How was vacation?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      It was nice. Little ... W- vacations are hard, you know, because, like ... (clears throat) Even though I enjoy rest, I always feel like I shouldn't be.

   10. DGDavid Goggins0:29

       (laughs) Like, oh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Always, you know?

   12. DGDavid Goggins0:31

       I get it. I get it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       You go on vacations?

   14. DGDavid Goggins0:33

       No.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Never?

   16. DGDavid Goggins0:35

       No.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       (laughs)

   18. DGDavid Goggins0:36

       Nope.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       For me, creatively, it's good. It's good to get a reset, 'cause I come back in guns blazing, like, a really ... Uh, I don't, uh, don't risk any mental burnout when I do it.

   20. DGDavid Goggins0:47

       Well, I have resets, but my resets are like, um, I call them aid stations, mental aid stations.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Mm.

   22. DGDavid Goggins0:53

       So when you're going fucking hard and you're grinding all the fucking time, like, everybody knows there's 24 hours in a day, but when I'm in the shower, it's a mental aid station.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Mm-hmm.

   24. DGDavid Goggins1:02

       I don't think about shit. I don't fucking think about people. I don't think about work. I don't think about running. I don't think about working out. When I'm in the car, another fucking mental aid station. When I'm fucking eating, mental aid station. So, people eating and they working, all this other shit, man. So I g- I can grind hard because a lot of the times, man, I'm in mental fucking aid stations-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       Hmm.

   26. DGDavid Goggins1:23

       ... chilling.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       So you have little mini vacations. Hmm.

   28. DGDavid Goggins1:25

       Mini vacations, man, all day long. All day long.

2. 1:28 – 4:37

   Responsibility to the audience & calling out fake motivation culture

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:28

      (laughs) Do you feel now almost a responsibility to, like, stay at it all the time 'cause so many people are watching and paying attention and drawing inspiration from you?

   2. DGDavid Goggins1:39

      100%. I mean, like, I probably would've retired a long time ago, but I get these emails from people, and it's like they're living through me. Like, their strength comes through what they know I'm doing. So there's so many times I wanna get up and say, "Oh, man, fuck it, man. I got mine. I'm good." And I'm like, "Fuck. Fucking Tommy out there, motherfuckers."

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:04

      (laughs)

   4. DGDavid Goggins2:04

      Fucking Tommy talking about-

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:05

      Tommy in his email.

   6. DGDavid Goggins2:06

      ... Tommy talking about ... Fucking, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:07

      He saved his life.

   8. DGDavid Goggins2:08

      "Man, I ran 10 miles last night because of you, man." I'm like, you know, a lot of people can live off of that and they can fucking be good with that, and, you know, a lot of motivational people come out here, man, and run their motherfucking mouths about shit, and I know they are not doing shit. They sit back and they're fucking, like, you know, they have their little brainstorming sessions about, "Oh, what should we say? What's gonna-"

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:30

      Yeah.

   10. DGDavid Goggins2:31

       "... what's gonna connect with people?" While they're sitting on their fucking ass. My brainstorming sessions is fucking out there in the fucking grip of life fucking grinding, and that's where I think all my material comes from to suck. Every bit of it comes from the suck.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:45

       Hmm. And that's the difference between ... There's a, there's, like, a whole industry now that's dedicated to trying to help people get motivated, and a lot of the people that are involved in that are very unqualified.

   12. DGDavid Goggins2:58

       100%.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:58

       'Cause they're not really doing anything.

   14. DGDavid Goggins3:00

       No.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       There's so many people that haven't actually done anything, but they'll try to teach you how to get your life in order-

   16. DGDavid Goggins3:07

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:07

       ... and how to get your mind right, and develop that warrior mentality. I'm like, "Bitch, you don't have that."

   18. DGDavid Goggins3:12

       Well, they're utilizing the weakness of the world right now.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:14

       Yeah.

   20. DGDavid Goggins3:14

       The world's in a very bad place, so the pe- these, these people who are, like, con artists, they sit back and say, "Oh, I can come up with this. I can come up with this, and this right here can probably make me some money."

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:25

       Yeah.

   22. DGDavid Goggins3:26

       So they're in it for, for, for fucked up reasons.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       There's just not a whole lot of people like you. You're, you know ... I love that phrase, "uncommon amongst uncommon men," 'cause it's, it's such a good phrase because it just shows you, you, you've been on this path for so long and you're grinding for so long, but you're also honest about there's moments where you don't wanna fucking do this-

   24. DGDavid Goggins3:50

       No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       ... which is why it's so interesting, because you do it.

   26. DGDavid Goggins3:55

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:55

       You, you do it without any reservation. You just go through it.

   28. DGDavid Goggins4:00

       Right.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       But you always talk about, "I don't wanna fucking do this shit," but you always do it.

   30. DGDavid Goggins4:04

       That's it.
3. 4:37 – 5:58

   “Perform without purpose”: discipline without the golden carrot

   1. DGDavid Goggins4:37

      (laughs) It's a true statement. But, but what I do though, man, is I, I came up with this thing called perform without purpose! And so many people, they need to have a 5K, a 10K. "I need to have a, a, a, a course in front of me. I need to have something in front of me for me to get my fucking ass up and do some shit." And that used to be me. And nowadays, you know, shit, for the past 20-some years, I don't need fucking purpose. And people miss out on this, man. The purpose ... We- we're all looking for this golden purpose. Is it this? Is it that? Is it making money? Who- is it, is it my family? Motherfucker, the purpose is you. We forget that. Every fucking day I wake up and I don't wanna do some fucking shit, I'm like, "Okay, man, do you wanna be a bitch today? Do you wanna feel like a little bitch? Do you wanna walk around all day knowing that you could but you didn't?" So I, I ... It's perform without purpose. You have to learn how to get up and do shit when you ain't got no fucking 5K, no 10K, nothing. Nothing exists. Your life fucking sucks. You're in the fucking dungeon. But guess what, motherfucker? I'm still going to get it, because when that time comes ... Because the time is gonna come! When that purpose is there, you'll be ready. But most of us fucking aren't ready because we don't know how to do without having the golden carrot in front of us.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:56

      Yeah.

   3. DGDavid Goggins5:56

      And so you're all fucked.

4. 5:58 – 6:51

   Earning the “ah” moment: daily suffering, daily payoff

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:58

      There's also this thing where if you do it, once it's over, you get a break.

   2. DGDavid Goggins6:02

      Oh!

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:02

      Like, that's what a 10K is. That's what a marathon is. "I'm gonna train for this marathon." And you're, you're training and you're training for that big day, but you're also recognizing when that marathon's over, "Ah."

   4. DGDavid Goggins6:12

      That's right. That's right. And as you get better at that "ah" moment-... the "ah" moment becomes less and less. So my "ah" moments now are like, "Oh, I ran today, I went to the gym today, I did this and this today, I studied today." (sighs) I have about eight hours off. And those eight hours are glorious to me. And every day, you go back out and you start earning that. A- a- and every day you wake up, it sucks, and when it's over, you feel better. It sucks, you feel better. And as you get going, as every step you take in that journey, as you're like, for me, run, I run every day, fucking hate it, but every step I take, I'm like, "All right, motherfucker. You're beating the demon again."

5. 6:51 – 8:28

   Running on broken knees: pain tolerance, anatomy, and the choice to endure

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:51

      You run every day, but I don't think people understand how fucked up your knees are.

   2. DGDavid Goggins6:56

      No. No, they don't care.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:56

      Like, you- you- you run every... When you sent me that X-ray after your surgery, and I looked at what they did to your knee-

   4. DGDavid Goggins7:05

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:06

      ... and, and I looked at what it looks like-

   6. DGDavid Goggins7:09

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:09

      ... what the actual bone on bone looks like, and-

   8. DGDavid Goggins7:12

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:12

      ... how it had distorted, because there's no cushioning at all-

   10. DGDavid Goggins7:16

       No.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:16

       ... and the doctor said to you, "I can't even believe you can fucking walk on these knees."

   12. DGDavid Goggins7:21

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       Forget about run thousands of miles. So you're doing this every day in constant pain.

   14. DGDavid Goggins7:26

       Right. Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:28

       What is it like?

   16. DGDavid Goggins7:29

       Well, I don't suggest-

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:30

       Explain your knees, first of all.

   18. DGDavid Goggins7:31

       So, okay. So pe- people think that my knees are bad from a lot of running, and they're wrong. I'm, I- I- I wasn't born healthy. I wasn't born with some great body alignment, some great... You know, I have sickle cell, I have all kind of shit. I have all kind of health issues. You know, all kind of... I'm, I'm fucked up. So I had a choice to make and the choice was, you know, growing up, you know, "Okay, this hurts, that hurts. We can just sit down and do nothing or we can see how far we can push the human body." So on that journey, as I started getting more and more into my mind and started realizing that while, what I'm capable of doing, my mind got stronger. So the, so the pain in my knees, while it sucked, I've been doing it for so long, it was like it became my new norm. Like, "Okay, my knees hurt. Fuck it. Stop..." You know, and I, and I call it, like, um, stop feeling sorry for yourself, but you sometimes have to ignore your feelings.

6. 8:28 – 15:16

   The surgeries, edema, and the meniscus that ‘broke tools’

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:28

      I'm gonna send Jamie a picture of your knee.

   2. DGDavid Goggins8:30

      Oh, no, do it. I, I, I think Jamie has some, uh... (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:33

      Do you have a picture of his knee, Jamie? Did I ever sh- show, send it to you, Jamie? Um, - I have it here. Hold on. Let me just... But keep going.

   4. DGDavid Goggins8:42

      No, so it's like, for, for me, I, I made the decision and my decision was to be the best person I could. And I basically, a lot of mornings, I wake up and say, "Fuck your feelings." And that doesn't mean, like, you know, don't take it literally, "Fuck your feelings." But sometimes you have to go beyond what you're feeling. And my knees were fucked, but guess what? I wanted to run and I knew that, okay, you can get knee replacements, this and that. Like I said, it wasn't because of I ran too much. People always wanna say, "Oh, man, you ran so much, so you fucked up your body." You know, you don't wanna be like David Goggins. I hear that all the time. "You don't wanna be like David Goggins." But-

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:20

      So there's your knee.

   6. DGDavid Goggins9:21

      Yeah, there it is. So that's the plate.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:22

      First of all, look at, look at the fact that there's zero space between those bones.

   8. DGDavid Goggins9:26

      Yes, sir.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      From the top, from your, your tibia to your femur, there's zero space. It's just kneecap covering two bones that are rubbing against each other. And so this was after surgery, where they had to cut your knee, slice your shin, like, in half, and then take a chunk out of it, because it had deformed so much from you running with bone on bone, that it was starting to, like, swell out in one direction-

   10. DGDavid Goggins9:58

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:58

       ... and it was changing the alignment of your leg.

   12. DGDavid Goggins10:00

       Right. This happened back in 2000. 2001, I was going through BUD/S. So this happened for a long... This is, this right here has been going on for a long time. So... And it got to a point where I was like, "Okay, I'm done." And that's the plate that's in there right now. So as you see the wedge, that part right there in the bone that's opened up?

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:21

       Yeah.

   14. DGDavid Goggins10:21

       So they had to cut it, realign it, and then, um, now the, uh, alignment's better. But this is now about 17 months ago, 17, 18 months ago when this happened. So yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:32

       Couldn't they get some screws that fit? Go back to that real quick. There was one.

   16. DGDavid Goggins10:36

       What, those (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       (laughs) That was the one- That was the one that sticks right out of the fucking bone. Hey, cut that shit off.

   18. DGDavid Goggins10:41

       (laughs) Yeah, follow that shit down.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       Why is that thing, is that thing sticking into your leg?

   20. DGDavid Goggins10:44

       No, I don't... Well, I feel the plate every single time I move.

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:47

       Yeah?

   22. DGDavid Goggins10:48

       So every time my... So, 'cause it's, like, connected to the hamstring.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:51

       Hmm.

   24. DGDavid Goggins10:52

       So whenever I fucking, whenever I move, that plate is very irritating. So every step, even, like, when I walk, when I run, it's just, it's this very irritating thing. And then you gotta wait for so long for that leg to start getting back into place. And if you see that other picture I sent of the foam, my, my foam leg that I put my hand in, I think Jennifer sent it to you, Jamie, with the foam leg. You'll see this in a second. This is fucked up. So, like, the swelling in that leg was fucking nuts for-

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       Oh, when you had edema?

   26. DGDavid Goggins11:24

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:24

       You showed it to me in Vegas.

   28. DGDavid Goggins11:25

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan11:26

       You, you s- you were-

   30. DGDavid Goggins11:26

       I, I-
7. 15:16 – 17:34

   Moab 240 and the spiral: racing huge miles, then suddenly unable to run

   1. DGDavid Goggins15:16

      Much worse. Like, I was done. I went from running 200 mile to... I, I did 240-mile race in, in 2020, October of 2020. It was Moab. Went out there, got second place, 62 hours. Knee was fucked up, getting it drained before the fucking race, but I still ran 240 miles. Literally, five or six days before the race, I'm getting it drained, and it was a baseball-sized fucking, um... It's called a Baker's Assist. So they drained it, and I went in there and did the race. Finished it, and I was like, "Okay, here we go." Went on to do some more races. I did like another 200 miler, did a couple more races, and then, like I said, Cam came down. Right after that, I went and got this surgery done. And I went from running every day to now, I have some fucking leg that just dangles. And after that surgery, it just fucking dangled, and I was like, "Okay, man, I'm fucked."

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:05

      As... Just from that little piece of meniscus?

   3. DGDavid Goggins16:06

      Just that little piece of meniscus. And I'm sitting there thinking, "Okay, man. This is not... This doesn't make any sense to me. There's, there's something fucked. I don't understand why I can't... I can't put any pressure on my leg." The, the amount of blood they were taking out was, was unbelievable. So there's the blood right there.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:22

      (laughs) Jesus Christ.

   5. DGDavid Goggins16:23

      That's the blood, dude.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:24

      Oh my God. There's one, two, three, four, five, six-

   7. DGDavid Goggins16:26

      And you see the black blood?

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:28

      Yeah.

   9. DGDavid Goggins16:29

      That is deoxygenated blood. So whatever was going on, whatever the fuck was going on...

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       That's why it looks different colors? So the-

   11. DGDavid Goggins16:36

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       ... red blood is the b- the blood that has oxygen?

   13. DGDavid Goggins16:38

       That's right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:39

       And that was just, like, coagulated-

   15. DGDavid Goggins16:41

       Yes.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       ... just fucked up blood?

   17. DGDavid Goggins16:43

       Yep.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:44

       Jesus.

   19. DGDavid Goggins16:45

       Yeah. So that... So after surgery, I'm like, I'm like seven, seven days out or whatever the fuck it was, I... And once again, I don't know the exact times, but I have them in the book. I have everything fucking dialed in. Um, I went back and I was like, "Man, I'm f- I'm fucked up." I mean, it was a simple meniscus surgery, man. Like people-

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       Yeah.

   21. DGDavid Goggins17:02

       ... go back a week later. They're playing two weeks, three weeks-

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       Yeah.

   23. DGDavid Goggins17:04

       ... tops. I'm like, "Man, I'm never gonna fucking run again. I'm gonna walk with a fucking limp." So I'm going back, I'm getting fucking, like, um, literally getting my knee drained every week, getting PRP. I'm like, "Man." But in the back of my mind, I, I know how far I can push myself. I know my body so fucking well. So well. And I'm like, "This is, um, this is wrong." I go, "I, I'm never gonna run again. I'm never gonna run again." And I walk with a limp. So this went on for about six, six months. So

8. 17:34 – 26:16

   Second opinions & the HTO solution: high tibial osteotomy and realignment logic

   1. DGDavid Goggins17:34

      I had the surgery done in February. It was, uh, February, March, April, May, June. About four months, four months after the surgery, four or five months, I'm like, "Hey, Jennifer. Um, I gotta find another, uh, s- you know, somebody else to look at my fucking knee." So I try to keep my shit together, but imagine when you go from every day of your fucking life grinding, and you go to nothing.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:58

      Mm-hmm.

   3. DGDavid Goggins17:59

      Like literally, like, 90-minute surgery, done.

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:02

      That's crazy that it was just a little meniscus scope.

   5. DGDavid Goggins18:05

      90-minute surgery, done. And I was like, "Okay, man, this is..." Anyway, so I found this guy named Dr. Gemoll outta New York. And we fly there, but I'm like, "He can't fix this, man." Because I knew it was a lot more than knees. It was just... It was all kind of this fucked up body shit. And I, um, I walk in the office and he decides to see me, and me and Jennifer in there. Jennifer's happy.... she's happy as shit. She's like, "Oh my God, man. This guy's gonna be able to get you a, a fucking meniscus replacement." He, he was all kind of gurued out.

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:37

      Mm-hmm.

   7. DGDavid Goggins18:38

      But I'm a realist, bro. I will push myself and I will go as far as I can, but I also am a realist. I also knew in the back of my mind, "I'm not gonna try to ruin your fucking party, Jennifer." This is what I'm saying to myself. "But this shit's done."

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:51

      Mm-hmm.

   9. DGDavid Goggins18:51

      "It's over." So... But I went just to pretty much appease her and just see what, you know, if there was anything left. So I walk in the office and the doc's like, uh, "Yeah, I'm looking at your X-rays." And that's the doctor who's like, "I don't know how..." This is one of the... Dr. Gamal, look him up, world-renowned motherfucker, dude. And when this guy looked at me, straight-faced, he said, "Man, I don't know how you did anything with those knees, anything, let alone run 200 miles back to back, 240 miles, whatever the fuck you did. I don't know how you did it." And so I'm like, "Okay, whatever. Can we get it fixed?" And he didn't want to get there 'cause he knew I was fucked. He's like, "No, you know, we, we can maybe, you know, try an, an unloader brace. Maybe an unloader brace will help you out." And I was like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:38

       What's an unloader brace?

   11. DGDavid Goggins19:39

       So basically, my knee went in on the meniscus side, on the inside-

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:43

       Mm-hmm.

   13. DGDavid Goggins19:43

       ... so it was, like, jamming the inside. So this brace kinda like... It kinda helps realign the knee a little bit, so then you cannot have so much pressure on the inside of your leg. So that's it right there.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:54

       Oh, okay, so on one side...

   15. DGDavid Goggins19:55

       Yeah, so basically... Uh, I'm like, man... I'm like, "Okay, I'm not... Uh, so this is all you have for me?" I'm like, "You can't do shit for me?" And he was like, um, "No." And he was walking out of the office and he could tell. I was like... I wasn't too fucked up, but I was like... 'Cause I kind of was preparing myself for the next part of my journey. I don't like to lay in my shit too long. You know, I give myself a couple minutes and say, "Okay, motherfucker, we gotta man the fuck up. We gotta get back in this fucking... Like, what's next? You know, let's go, let's go see what... You know, let's, let's go back to college, let's, let's do something 'cause you're, you're running and your athletic career is done." So he got to the door, he opened it, and as he was literally... He was shouldered out the motherfucking door. And I'm looking at Jennifer, I'm like, "Well, you know, we'll go back to fucking... You know, we'll go back to Nevada and fucking start again." And he was like, "Tried the unloader brace out, and there's one more thing we could possibly do for you." And I'm like, (laughs) "Motherfucker, like, get your little monkey fucking ass back in here, bro."

   16. JRJoe Rogan20:57

       (laughs)

   17. DGDavid Goggins20:58

       "Like, what is it?" Like, like, like, like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:00

       Right.

   19. DGDavid Goggins21:00

       ... "What the fuck is going on?" So he was like, "Yeah, there's this surgery called HTO." And he was like, "You can go in, we can fucking, you know, pretty much break your tibia." It's called high tibia osteotomy. They go in and they break your tibia. They, they, they, like, slice into it, and they, they wedge it to the point where they realign your leg back up. It's a very painful surgery and it's very painful afterwards. Painful as fuck afterwards. And they put that plate, the plate you saw, back on, and then your leg is... So, so your knee is still where it was 'cause this doesn't get fixed, so it takes several months for that knee to start working its way back into where the alignment is. So now my leg is just now... So here it is.

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:46

       Here we can see it in an image.

   21. DGDavid Goggins21:47

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan21:48

       So they, they, they take a slice out of it-

   23. DGDavid Goggins21:50

       Yep.

   24. JRJoe Rogan21:50

       ... 'cause it's deformed-

   25. DGDavid Goggins21:52

       Yep.

   26. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       ... and that slice lowers the part that's deformed and tries to make it a, a more natural shape. But you're still dealing with bone on bone, so you're still deal- you're still dealing with the pain of arthritis, essentially. 'Cause you... Do you have any cartilage in your knees?

   27. DGDavid Goggins22:10

       Not much. Not much at all, if any. So the thing about it, it takes that pressure off of that... So it was complete bone on bone.

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:18

       Right.

   29. DGDavid Goggins22:18

       What that surgery does is it takes it over to the lateral side, so on the outside. So I had, I have a nice meniscus over there. That thing wasn't touched for years, 'cause when I was born, all the pressure was on the, uh, m- my, um, medial meniscus.

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:33

       So your knee had been misaligned your whole life.
9. 26:16 – 30:46

   Front-loading life and identity beyond athletics: preparing for the next chapter

   1. DGDavid Goggins26:16

      Gotta be able to move them. But what I like about... And this was, this was, like, literally a, a trained skill for me, was I'm, I'm always preparing for, like, not being a bitch. Like, a lot of people get to a point, like for instance, like, if Jennifer can't do something, like if, you know, if, if, if she can't go for a run or whatever, just like 'cause she... something's wrong, like some simple shit, it's gonna bother her. I got to a point in my life where I realized this is life, and so I move on past things real quick. So people are like, "Oh my God, what are you gonna do, David, if you can't run?" Motherfucker, I'll swim or I'll go to college or I'll do something else. This... Like, like, this isn't my life. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very aware how quick life can take shit from you, and I've always prepared my mind for the next chapter. And what happened with me was I started this thing called front loading. So when I was young, I used to be a little piece of shit. You know, like, fucking, "Oh, I'm not good enough. I can't do this. I can't do that." But the second I got my head out of my ass and I realized, "Man, you can achieve a lot of shit if you get off your ass and you start moving and you start motivating yourself, start becoming a self-motivator." So I started front loading. And front loading is people are like, "Man, you've done so much by 47," because I don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring me. So my, my military resume's fat. You know, I fucking did a lot in the military. I did a lot outside the military. I've, I've, I've made money. I've, I've, I've done almost every race out there, hard race in the world. I've broken pull-up records. I've done a lot of shit. So when these bad times come... And also, now, like, like, not only that. Like, work your ass off so, so you can enjoy. Yeah, yeah, you're taking a shot. You know, you, you may not live to be old, but what if you do and you worked your ass off when you were able, and you were able to fucking get up early, able to grind? If you front load it properly, the back half of your fucking life is money. And that's what I did. The second I realized that, "Man, you are a piece of shit. We gotta get going. Because at 47, man, you're not gonna be able to do any of this shit. 50, whatever you are." So I front loaded. So all these bad things have happened to me, I sit back and go, "Man, how are you handling this so well?" Motherfucker, I've, I've done it. I front loaded. I have the money I need. I have the success I need. I have the fucking... The, the determination, the willpower, and also the pride in myself so when I wake up every morning, I know who the fuck I am. I front loaded perfectly, so I don't care what's taken from me.

   2. JRJoe Rogan28:46

      But it's gotta still... It's gotta be a strange position to be in where your body is your medium. The body is the vehicle for you to express yourself.

   3. DGDavid Goggins28:56

      Right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan28:56

      And your body's breaking down.

   5. DGDavid Goggins28:58

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan28:58

      And I know that they considered doing knee replacements on you, too.

   7. DGDavid Goggins29:03

      Yep, yep.

   8. JRJoe Rogan29:03

      And what was that conversation like?

   9. DGDavid Goggins29:05

      It was, it was very basic, man. It's like, "Hey, you know, you're not gonna be able to do some of the shit that you've done," even though o- obviously people are, but that was the conversation. And I, I know it sounds weird. It was totally fine with me. It was fine because I had... Dude, people don't understand. This, this, this wasn't like, a, a part-time job. Man, when you've done what I... Like, Kobe Bryant. When Kobe fucking retired at last game, he had like 60 points or some shit. He walked off the court. He didn't fucking cry. He didn't say, "Oh, my God. I'm gonna miss the sport. What the fuck?" He walked off. He gave, he gave everything he could. Man, when you fucking give what I've given, and motherfuckers like to say, "Oh, you..." Fuck you. You don't fucking know shit, which is what makes me who I am. I've given everything. People make... "Oh, you, you ran on fucked up knees. You taped your feet up. You blah, blah. You had two heart surgeries, you kept on going." Yep, sure did. I had somewhere to fucking go. I had somewhere to fucking go and I got there. And buddy, when motherfuckers tell you, "You can take a break now." Hey, you're fucked up? As long as my knees are halfway working, I got the run. You're telling me may- may- maybe a chance I can't run no more? Hmm. Give me an excuse to fucking not do shit, but as long as I have no excuse, I gotta do it. But I wa- I was, I was happy where I was. I gave everything. I gave everything to who I am. And that's why I'm... People are always, "I don't believe that." Don't, don't believe it. I gave everything. And when you give everything, man, you have no regret. People didn't understand me. People don't understand me now. I don't give a fuck.I know exactly what I was doing. I'm not a masochist, I'm not crazy, I'm not this and that. People try to title me and label me. No, I had something to fucking do.

10. 30:46 – 40:42

    Studying darkness & clearing the ‘mental garage’ so discipline can fit

    1. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       Well, the way I describe it to people when people ask me, like, "Why does he do all these things?" Like what is- what is the motivation here? I go, "He's on a mental journey that very few people have ever been on." Because the- w- people don't understand you. They- or they misunderstand you, or they purposely misinterpret the way you're living your life. You're trying to understand your mind in a way that very few human beings ever get to understand their mind, because you're taking your mind into these terrible dark places all the time and you're trying to pull things out of that. You're trying to learn things about yourself and about your potential from that.

    2. DGDavid Goggins31:32

       That's exactly it.

    3. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       And that's what people don't understand.

    4. DGDavid Goggins31:34

       I studied the darkness. Y- y- you find no fucking answers in the light. None. It's too happy, it's too nice. It- we're not- we don't need to be taught how to live in happiness. We don't n- that- that just comes naturally to us, happy moments. But the dark times, man, you can't- and you can't get there unless you put yourself there. Life will take you there, but when you get into those dark moments, that's why people- that's why people... H- how are you able to... Man, I couldn't fucking read and write till I was a junior in high school. How are you able to write like this, man? Motherfucker, I go to such places in my mind and I study the darkness. Like, it's not just physical. When I was growing up and I saw my mom getting beat and I got beat, and I was some stuttering little Black kid in an all white school and I'm on stage and I gotta say one line, one fucking line in front of fucking 15 people, and I walk off stage coming with a fucking stutter. All those insecurities and all those fucking things, man, I used to go home and fucking cry. I'm like, "Oh, my God, man, I'm fucked up. This is all fucked up." I- I- I'm, "Hang on, man." As I got older, "We gotta study this shit, man. The only way we're gonna fucking get through this if you study it." So every time I'm in a dark moment and life's fucked up around me, whether it be physical or just life, I get in it, man, with a fucking pen and paper. I'm like, "Okay, this fucking sucks. I can feel like I'm fucking losing my shit, but let's fucking study this. Let's come out of this motherfucker a genius." You know, I studied the- I studied the- the- the- the black matter of the mind, the dark matter, you know, like fucking Stephen Hawking. If that's- if that's fucking his name, I said it right.

    5. JRJoe Rogan33:09

       (laughs)

    6. DGDavid Goggins33:09

       That motherfucker studied the space and shit.

    7. JRJoe Rogan33:12

       Yeah.

    8. DGDavid Goggins33:12

       That's what I consider myself, man. You know, I- I was on a journey, like- just like you said. I mean, you- you- you couldn't have said it any better. And so many people get it wrong and I don't give a fuck, man. You can't... For me, I cannot help people... There's- there's a lot of cookie cutter shit out here in this world. "Oh, discipline, wake up early, take cold shower, fuck this, fuck that," whatever.

    9. JRJoe Rogan33:33

       (laughs)

    10. DGDavid Goggins33:33

        It's all fucking bullshit. It's not. But what they don't teach you within the cookie cutter is, like, our minds are like a fucking garage. And the garage, you... If you open a garage that's all cluttered up, it's all fucked up, you can't put your car in there. You got fucking boats and you got fucking kids' toys and shit everywhere. But if you organize that fucking garage and you put everything in its rightful spot, you can pull that car in there. You can put two cars in there, you can put bikes in there. And that's like with the mind. People talk about discipline and fucking determination and fucking, you know, repetitions and all of this shit. Consistency. Why people fall off the wagon so often is because their mind is full of shit. There's no room in that mind for discipline. There's no room for consistency. They may do it once or twice, but then the mind takes over and that cluttered fucking garage comes in. And then, it's like a circuit breaker, man. A circuit breaker just overloads and it fucking sparks. And our minds, that's- that's our mind, man. It's like a fucking circuit breaker that has so much shit in it, you keep on loading it, you can't put any more into it. So I've- I talk about it in there, man, so much about clearing space in your fucking mind so then you have room for all those discipline. Waking up early, taking those... 'Cause they- they- they do mean something, but we don't get to that fucking dark matter that is keeping you from clearing out that mental garage.

    11. JRJoe Rogan35:03

        That's a good way to put it 'cause that is the mind of most people, is filled with stuff that they have to move around-

    12. DGDavid Goggins35:11

        Oh, my God.

    13. JRJoe Rogan35:11

        ... to get to what they want, and it's constantly piling up-

    14. DGDavid Goggins35:15

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan35:15

        ... and just shit, unorganized and...

    16. DGDavid Goggins35:17

        Organize mine, man. You're looking at fucking... I gotta take care of the kids, the kid's schedule is all fucked up, my husband, my- my wife, you know. I'm- I- I fucking... I'm going by McDonald's to get this and I- I'm rushing my schedule. Everything's just fucked.

    17. JRJoe Rogan35:29

        And I wish I was doing this, but I'm doing that-

    18. DGDavid Goggins35:31

        That's it.

    19. JRJoe Rogan35:31

        ... and that and this, and I want a raise, but I can't get one.

    20. DGDavid Goggins35:34

        That's it.

    21. JRJoe Rogan35:34

        My boss is an asshole.

    22. DGDavid Goggins35:36

        Where is greatness in that, man?

    23. JRJoe Rogan35:37

        Yeah.

    24. DGDavid Goggins35:38

        You can't... you- you can't fit discipline into that. You can't fit structure. You can't fit consistency. You can't fit the grind. And then when you try, it just gets fucking... it- it gets fucking overrun by the fucking clutter in your fucked up mental garage.

    25. JRJoe Rogan35:53

        When you are in these dark places and you're gathering up these lessons, how difficult is it to try to bring that back and convey it to people when you're not in that space? Like, when you're in that space, when you're in the Moab 240-

    26. DGDavid Goggins36:11

        Mm-hmm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan36:11

        ... and you- you're going uphill and you're in the middle of the g- it's just deep suck.

    28. DGDavid Goggins36:16

        Right.

    29. JRJoe Rogan36:17

        How do you convey where that mental fortitude t- comes from? How do you bring that back? It's almost like you've got something you can't even hold in your hand-

    30. DGDavid Goggins36:26

        Right.
11. 40:42 – 48:51

    Ultra-endurance as a ‘compressed lifetime’ and the talent wall in fighters

    1. JRJoe Rogan40:42

       And how much of that is tied to doing things physically, though?

    2. DGDavid Goggins40:47

       Oh.

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:47

       There's like th- there's a, there's a certain kind of physical struggle that you go through, particularly with what you excel at, which is endurance athlete work. When, when there's a mental and physical thing that happens when the two of them are together.

    4. DGDavid Goggins41:02

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan41:02

       It doesn't happen in anything else. Like, you can do hard work, hard mental work, and it's very difficult, and y- I'm sure you can learn a lot from that.

    6. DGDavid Goggins41:10

       Right.

    7. JRJoe Rogan41:10

       But it doesn't have the physical pain that comes with the suck of endurance work.

    8. DGDavid Goggins41:17

       Yes. There's nothing, nothing in the world that you're able... I'm able to get... Let's say I... That Moab 240 I was in, 62 hours. Fucking sucked. It's just...

    9. JRJoe Rogan41:31

       With blown out knees?

    10. DGDavid Goggins41:32

        Blown out knees. Literally, like, the, uh, uh, a few days before the race, I'm getting drained, before the race. So, that's in your fucking mind, man. Like, it ain't like, "Oh, I just show up at the start and they're like, 'Oh, this is fucking great. I'm gonna fucking have a good time out here.'" No. I'm thinking, "All right, I just had my fucking knees drained." Like, "I'm, I'm in pain at mile zero." And that's in your brain. I have 240 miles of fucking head in me, and there's nothing in life, nothing in life... This is why I love endurance sports so much. I love it and I hate it. It's a love-hate relationship. 62 hours, I equate that to fucking seven years of life. You can't get that, man. So, what I know that ultra does for me is it packs in, it packs in... I can't, I can't live several lifetimes. I can't. It take... 'Cause the knowledge I need to gain for this life I live in a day, I need two or three or four lifetimes to be where I wanna go. Ultra gives it to me in fucking high definition real fast. 62 hours, you go out there, fucking suffer, you come back, "Oh, that was 62 hours. I gained seven fucking years of knowledge." The ups and downs, the pain, the suffering, the, the... You, you learn how to chunk...... this shit down, like, "Oh my God, man, I'm at mile 100. How the fuck am I gonna get to mile 118?" It, everything becomes... You, you start to learn life out there and you learn so much in such a condensed period of time and nothing in the world can do it like pushing yourself to the absolute limit. I, I, I call it like... So people have talent, people have a lot of talent, and this is going beyond your talent. So when talent... When there's no more talent, what happens to you? Most people quit. People only go to their talent level. And once your talent level is gone, it becomes a mental game, that, that whole mental game sets in then. And most people can only perform to their talent and they realize, "Man, why am I always messing up right here?"

    11. JRJoe Rogan43:45

        Hmm.

    12. DGDavid Goggins43:46

        "Wh- why, why is this, like, my big, my big hurdle?" It's because you're performing to your talent, and then after that, your mind has nothing for you.

    13. JRJoe Rogan44:00

        Hmm.

    14. DGDavid Goggins44:01

        Nothing for you. I see, I see fighters, I see runners, I see people who they're great, but they get to the edge of their talent and it's like, "Fuck, man. What, what's, what's up?" Because you're now at the point now where your talent ain't gonna do shit for you, my friend. Now it's the mental game, and that's where people get lost in life, get lost in that next level, and that next level is found for me in the things that I do, and that's misunderstood.

    15. JRJoe Rogan44:31

        That's a giant problem with fighters.

    16. DGDavid Goggins44:33

        Yep.

    17. JRJoe Rogan44:34

        There's many fighters that are-

    18. DGDavid Goggins44:35

        It's a talent problem.

    19. JRJoe Rogan44:36

        ... at an elite level in the gym.

    20. DGDavid Goggins44:37

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan44:38

        But when they get tired-

    22. DGDavid Goggins44:40

        Yep.

    23. JRJoe Rogan44:40

        ... and when they get pushed, and when they get into that... The, there's a, when the world starts narrowing-

    24. DGDavid Goggins44:46

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan44:46

        ... and the walls start closing in and they can't see peripherally anymore-

    26. DGDavid Goggins44:51

        Yep.

    27. JRJoe Rogan44:51

        ... and they're exhausted and they start making mistakes, so all of their understanding of what to do next gets clouded because they're thinking about quitting, they're thinking about being exhausted, "When am I gonna get a break?"

    28. DGDavid Goggins45:02

        Yep.

    29. JRJoe Rogan45:03

        "How much do I have left in the tank?"

    30. DGDavid Goggins45:05

        Mm-hmm.
12. 48:51 – 1:10:18

    Part-time savage, morning meetings, and hard truths (including obesity culture)

    1. JRJoe Rogan48:51

       But you know what's interesting about this book is you talk about how there was moments, even though you're clearly deep-end qualified, clearly deep-end certified-

    2. DGDavid Goggins49:00

       Yes, sir.

    3. JRJoe Rogan49:01

       ... you took some time and you hadn't been in the deep end for a while, and you were kind of a part-time savage now.

    4. DGDavid Goggins49:06

       That's right.

    5. JRJoe Rogan49:06

       This is kind of bullshit, and you're recognizing it in yourself. Even though you know your ability, you know your history-

    6. DGDavid Goggins49:13

       Yep.

    7. JRJoe Rogan49:13

       ... you know what you've been capable of doing in the past, you're like, "But I haven't been there."

    8. DGDavid Goggins49:16

       Nope.

    9. JRJoe Rogan49:17

       "Haven't been there in a while," and you gotta go back.

    10. DGDavid Goggins49:19

        What's funny about that part-time savage thing in there, man, where I fucking totally dogged myself, 'cause the truth, um, all this became nice. Waking up, motherfucker-

    11. JRJoe Rogan49:28

        Success.

    12. DGDavid Goggins49:29

        Baking an egg is motherfucking-

    13. JRJoe Rogan49:31

        (laughs)

    14. DGDavid Goggins49:31

        ... fuck, fuck, protein shake, early morning shit. And I stopped having those hard conversations with myself. Boy, my whole life, that's why my friends hate my ass, boy, 'cause I'm hard on me. And if I'm hard on me, I don't give a fuck about you. I don't give a fuck about what you think. I don't give a fuck if you think about me nothing else. Hard on myself, bro. Every morning I woke up, "All right, motherfucker," I call it my morning meeting. My morning meeting. We all have these fucking meetings all fucking day long, you know. We go to work, w- we're, we're working for somebody else. They want a meeting 'cause they wanna be successful, so we all sit our ass down, try and make them better, try and make them more money, try and make them more powerful. We don't do that for ourselves. So every morning I wake up, I used to, I, I, I had to get back into it again 'cause in that chapter, you see, I get, became a little bitch. That morning meeting, I wake up, "Okay, Goggins, what did you do fucked up yesterday? Where were you at?" And I just go through and I analyze my life. And then I went through a period of time there, man, where I stopped having those conversations. You know how you-

    15. JRJoe Rogan50:31

        Mm-hmm.

    16. DGDavid Goggins50:31

        ... let's say you and your wife go out, and let's say, I, I don't, I don't know, I'm just making up a story here. You and your wife go out and you see your cousin, and your cousin's fat as fuck.

    17. JRJoe Rogan50:40

        (laughs)

    18. DGDavid Goggins50:40

        I don't know, I don't know if they are or not, hopefully not. If they are, apologize, maybe.

    19. JRJoe Rogan50:44

        (laughs)

    20. DGDavid Goggins50:45

        So, they go out and you see your cousin, she's fat as fuck, he's fat as fuck, whoever, and you guys get back in the car and you guys, "Man, did you see motherfucking Mary Jo, how fat she was?" That's what we do. We go back and the hard conversation that you should be having with Mary Jo, "Hey, Mary Jo, you fucking gained some weight, huh, sister? Fucking kind of big." That's what I do to myself. A lot of people that we see all day long, we see 'em. If we don't have that hard conversation with 'em. We, we walk around... I'd rather you fucking hate me and get better than like me and stay the same. And that's how I feel about David Goggins. Motherfucker, I'd rather me hate, "Oh, I hate you, David, man. I hate you, David." But I get better from it. I get better from it. And that's why when people see me and I know you, you're, you're in my little foxhole, if you're in my foxhole and you become a piece of shit, "Hey, come here, brother. Let me talk to you real quick, brother."

    21. JRJoe Rogan51:39

        (laughs)

    22. DGDavid Goggins51:39

        People don't like that shit, man. But I'm not gonna allow you to go to a place that's gonna be hard to get out of. It's gonna be hard. If I allow you to gain five more pounds or allow you to take four more days off of school or allow you to keep on procrastinating in your fucking life, and I see it and I tell Jennifer behind your back, I'm doing you no fucking justice.

    23. JRJoe Rogan52:01

        Right.

    24. DGDavid Goggins52:01

        Zero justice. So, where this world is now, you can't say a motherfucking thing. I do. I still do and I always will. Don't like me. Don't like me. I'm good with that.

    25. JRJoe Rogan52:14

        That's exactly what's going on with, like, fat models.

    26. DGDavid Goggins52:18

        That's it. I'm proud.

    27. JRJoe Rogan52:19

        People are like, "You're beautiful no matter what," but that's not true.

    28. DGDavid Goggins52:24

        And the thing about it is, I have no problem if you want to be fat. I have no problem with anybody. If you wanna be whatever the fuck you wanna be. But make sure you fucking... If you're fat, motherfucker, go, go be fat. Go be real fucking fat.

    29. JRJoe Rogan52:37

        But let's be real, nobody wants to be fat.

    30. DGDavid Goggins52:39

        Nobody does. That's why I said it, man. Nobody does.
13. 1:10:18 – 1:29:34

    Childhood trauma, confronting his father, and his mother’s ‘prisoner’ chapter

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:10:18

       It's so painful reading about your childhood and the experiences with your father, and then when you went back and met your father as an adult and got with him and watched him get drunk and then watched him get belligerent and, and experience it all over again, and then think about what happened to him to make him who he is.

    2. DGDavid Goggins1:10:44

       Yeah, that fucked me up, dude. But I had to go, like... I, I realized I was fucked. I realized I was, I was just a sorry motherfucker. You know, I quit pararescue. I was afraid of the water. Every time shit got hard... Like I said, I didn't have talent, you know. I, I fucking didn't have shit. And whenever shit got hard for me, I thought I was on my way out and I, and I got sucked back in. I'd become, I'd become a loser again, real quick. And I see 'em all the time. There's a lot of fucking losers out here that won't face it. It's like, "Oh, man. Got to go back and visit this motherfucker." I hadn't, I haven't seen my dad in fucking years, man. Years. But I knew where I came from. I knew where my mindset came from. I knew where my demons were. So my whole idea when I went back to see my dad was I was hoping that I could just fucking call myself a loser and it's because of you, Dad. So I was hoping to go back and get the confirmation that I always wanted, that it wasn't my fault, that voice in my head was so loud, "It's not your fault, David. It's not your fault you can't read and write. It's not your fault that people call you fucking nigga. It's not your fault... It's not your fault this, not your fault that. It's not your fault that you're fat. It's not your fault that you're... That, that you quit shit. It's not your fault." So I was like, "Okay, man. I'm gonna go back, visit this motherfucker so I can just squash it and I can just go on and be a fucking loser, 'cause you fucked me up." And when I got there, I went... Drove to Buffalo, saw my dad, same routine as it was when I was eight years old, man. Walked in, "What's up?" Went to Skateland. I sat on that fucking couch that he would cheat on my mom with, and I sat on that couch in the corner and I was like, "God. What the fuck, man?" And it was a whole normal day. And the more I was around him, he started... Now he started getting drunk. And, and I won't go through the whole thing, but I started seeing him, man. I started having a conver- I always had these conversations with myself. I'm like, "Man, this motherfucker, he came from hell." His dad would put him in front of a furnace and, like, if he moved, he'd get burnt. So when, when, when my dad got beat, um, his dad would put him in front of a furnace and if he wouldn't move, he'd fucking get burnt up. So my dad just had to sit there and take it. So he never dealt with his fucking demons. So his demons became mine.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:12:58

       Hmm.

    4. DGDavid Goggins1:12:59

       His demons became mine. And mem- mem... Mo- motherfuckers think you die and, and, and the demon goes with you, man. Don't be a fucking fool, bro. You know? Like, that's why I'm proud of myself. My... I took his demons and mine. And people are always looking for some great fucking apology. You know, "Oh, my God." Like, "Um," you know, "He... My, my dad needs to say sorry," or people who fucking called you out your name or... Nobody gonna come back to say sorry to you, motherfucker.... ain't nobody saying shit to you. You better fucking man the fuck up. So I looked at him. He didn't face his demons, but I'm gonna face mine. So on that drive back home, that's what I started doing.

Episode duration: 2:34:51