CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 2:02
Merlin’s origin story: from caterpillars and snakes to bat science
Joe and Merlin open with Merlin’s unusual name and a funny childhood story about collecting large snakes that terrified neighbors. Merlin explains his early obsession with nature and how that curiosity eventually led him toward bats.
- •Merlin’s full name origin and the “M.D.” joke
- •Early nature interests: monarch caterpillars, then a snake phase
- •A runaway 7-foot coachwhip snake incident with new neighbors
- •Transition from general naturalist curiosity to specializing in bats
- 2:02 – 3:51
Austin’s bat panic: debunking the “rabid bat invasion” headlines
Merlin describes moving to Austin partly because of its bats—and because the city was a global center of bat fearmongering in the 1980s. He breaks down how misinformation spread and why people misinterpret bat behavior as attacks.
- •Austin headlines claiming bats were invading and mostly rabid
- •Fear of the unknown and misunderstanding bat flight behavior
- •Example of a man blaming a bat for scratches caused by a rose bush
- •Bats often fly near people to catch insects, not to attack
- 3:51 – 6:35
Congress Avenue Bridge: turning eradication threats into a tourism and ecology win
The conversation shifts to the famous bridge colony (up to 1.5 million bats) and the public efforts to eradicate them. Merlin explains how meeting a bat up close changes perceptions and how preserving the colony benefited Austin economically and ecologically.
- •Congress Avenue Bridge colony size and public fascination
- •Petitions and health warnings pushing for eradication
- •Showing a live bat to skeptics as a persuasion tool
- •Bats as major nightly consumers of crop and yard pests
- •Bats now contribute millions in tourism dollars to Austin
- 6:35 – 8:04
Why you want bats nearby: mosquito control, reduced pesticides, and biodiversity context
Merlin lays out the practical value of bats, including studies showing they consume disease-carrying mosquitoes. He explains why bat-driven pest control works best when surrounding ecosystems support bats year-round.
- •Bats as primary controllers of night-flying insects (including mosquitoes)
- •Wisconsin bat-house study: multiple mosquito species eaten, including West Nile carriers
- •Mediterranean rice paddies: bat houses reduced the need for pesticides
- •Biodiversity matters: bats need alternative habitats/food outside pest seasons
- •Economic threshold concept: bats reduce damage enough to avoid pesticide use
- 8:04 – 11:55
How to build and place a bat house (and why bats like tight crevices)
Joe learns bat houses are like birdhouses but open at the bottom, and Merlin explains how bats choose them. Merlin details design specs—especially crevice width—and ties it to predator avoidance strategies.
- •Bat houses: open-bottom design and passive attraction (no bait needed)
- •Occupancy timing can vary from a week to a year or more
- •Ideal roost crevices: ~3/4 inch to 1 inch wide
- •Tight spaces help bats defend against rat snakes
- •Placement and design determine success more than “luring” tactics
- 11:55 – 16:41
Winning hearts instead of battles: Merlin’s conservation strategy
Merlin explains why he left a dream research job to focus on bat conservation when bats were widely hated. He outlines a diplomacy-first approach: listening, solving people’s problems, and building allies rather than fighting enemies.
- •Quitting a globe-trotting research job to do full-time conservation
- •Early conservation challenge: people preferred paying to kill bats
- •“Win friends, not battles” philosophy
- •Listening as a primary tool for changing minds
- •Helping people and bats simultaneously as a durable strategy
- 16:41 – 22:10
Austin bat species and extreme flight performance (radar, speeds, and tracking limits)
Merlin identifies the bridge bats as mostly Brazilian free-tailed bats, with a smaller presence of cave myotis. He describes astonishing flight speeds, radar tracking of mass emergence, and the practical challenges of tracking bats across borders at night.
- •Bridge colony composition: mostly Brazilian free-tailed, some cave myotis
- •Why the name changed from “Mexican” to “Brazilian” free-tailed bat
- •Free-tailed bats: high-altitude flight and ~100 mph with tailwind
- •Doppler radar shows fast county-to-county movement after emergence
- •Radio tracking is possible, but cross-border tracking can be risky
- 22:10 – 24:56
Global bat diversity and Merlin’s photography: from flying foxes to tiny bumblebee bats
The discussion expands to worldwide bat variation, including huge flying foxes and one of the smallest mammals. Merlin explains how he trains bats for photography, borrowing principles from falconry, to capture rare natural behaviors.
- •Largest bats: flying foxes approaching a 6-foot wingspan
- •Smallest mammals include Thailand’s bumblebee bat
- •Flying fox range across Old World tropics and conservation concern
- •Merlin’s training method for photos: reward-based conditioning like falconry
- •Building the world’s largest bat photo collection via trained natural behavior
- 24:56 – 27:42
Bats, food, and disease narratives: Ebola blame, hunting pressure, and a media misquote
Merlin explains where and why bats are eaten and emphasizes that overharvest threatens key ecological roles like reforestation seed dispersal. He also addresses misinformation, including early Wuhan market claims and a personal story of being misrepresented by a reporter.
- •Fruit bats as major seed dispersers (up to 98% into cleared areas in parts of Africa)
- •Ebola association and backlash reduces tolerance for bats
- •Wuhan market: Merlin notes no evidence bats were sold there in early searches
- •Old World regions where bat hunting is common (Indonesia, SE Asia, Madagascar, Pacific islands)
- •Thailand breakfast with poachers and the Associated Press “looking for new ways to eat bats” distortion
- 27:42 – 44:06
Economics, hunting, and compromise: Samoa flying foxes and making allies of “the enemy”
Merlin argues conservation works when it aligns incentives and respects human realities, including hunting. He recounts how befriending commercial hunters in American Samoa led to game laws, a hunting moratorium, recovery of flying foxes, and even a national park.
- •Merlin’s non-sentimental framing: conservation must work for people too
- •Hunters as necessary surrogate predators in altered ecosystems
- •American Samoa: commercial hunting for Guam delicacy devastated flying foxes
- •Building trust with hunters led to self-imposed bans and a five-year moratorium
- •Outcome: flying fox recovery and establishment of a national park
- 44:06 – 50:27
Bats as elite pollinators and seed dispersers: Brazil-nut relatives, floral reflectors, and “spring-loaded” pollen
Using a hard seed pod sample, Merlin shows how some rainforest plants evolve to allow bat access while blocking primates and birds. He describes bat-pollinated flowers with reflectors, precise timing, and mechanisms that place pollen on specific bat body parts to avoid cross-species mixing.
- •Sapicaya (Brazil-nut relative): armored fruit designed to favor bat dispersal
- •Bats as highly effective long-distance pollinators and seed dispersers
- •Flowers use acoustic/visual reflectors to guide bats at night
- •Mucuna flowers: open after dark, require precise tongue insertion, then fire pollen
- •Different flowers deposit pollen on distinct bat body zones (rump, throat, snout, etc.)
- 50:27 – 1:06:25
Bat senses and social intelligence: echolocation “vision,” friendships, and learning by observation
Merlin corrects the myth that bats have poor vision and explains echolocation as an additional way of perceiving texture and space. He shares evidence of complex social bonds and striking learning ability, including small bats learning training behavior by watching others.
- •Bats often have good vision plus echolocation (perceiving hard vs soft surfaces)
- •Social systems likened to primates, whales, and elephants
- •Banding studies suggest long-term associations and group stability over years
- •Altruism: adopting orphans and helping others in need
- •Training anecdote: a tiny bat learns the reward behavior by observation
- 1:06:25 – 1:16:56
Vampire bats and rabies risk: separating horror lore from real-world statistics
The conversation turns to true vampire bats in Latin America, why they became problematic around cattle, and how rabies fears are commonly exaggerated. Merlin offers a risk perspective: avoid handling grounded bats, and remember bat rabies deaths are rare compared with other hazards.
- •True vampire bats exist but are limited to Latin America
- •Cattle and deforestation created an easy food supply, increasing vampire bat issues
- •Rabies risk context: 1–2 bat-related rabies deaths/year in US+Canada (per Merlin)
- •Sampling bias: sick bats are easier to catch, inflating perceived rabies rates
- •Practical advice: don’t handle bats found in daytime; seek vaccination after exposure
- 1:16:56 – 1:39:39
Field-adventure highlight reel: curare arrows, insurgents, “jaguar” signals, cobras, and bandits
Merlin shows a curare-tipped arrowhead container and recounts intense field incidents from his bat expeditions. Stories include being chased by communist insurgents, nearly ambushed by Yanomamö, river bandits, and close encounters with cobras—underscoring his theme that relationships and judgment keep you alive.
- •Yanomamo arrowhead kit and curare poisoning design
- •Captured/chased by insurgents; saved by being in the local leader’s Jeep
- •Near-miss with hostile tribes using “jaguar noises” as communication
- •Cave crawl with a cobra passing inches away
- •River bandits confrontation and lessons about pacifism vs protecting a team
- 1:39:39 – 1:51:37
Legacy, Bat Conservation International split, and a call to support merlintuttle.org
Merlin reflects on appearing on Letterman, founding Bat Conservation International, and later leaving amid leadership conflicts. He outlines his current mission—keeping his photo and knowledge archive accessible, building an endowment, and directing listeners to donate and follow his organization online.
- •1984 Letterman clip and public bat education through media
- •Clarifying he’s no longer with Bat Conservation International
- •Founders vs boards: diverging priorities and being pushed out
- •Current work: Merlin Tuttle’s Bat Conservation and preserving his archive/legacy
- •Call to action: donate and follow “Merlin Tuttle Bats” social accounts
