Joe Rogan Experience #1967 - Mike Vecchione

1. 0:00 – 1:11

   Meeting Mike Vecchione: 23 years in comedy and leaving teaching behind

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (drumbeats) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      We're up. What's up?

   3. MVMike Vecchione0:13

      All right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      How are you, man? Pleasure to meet you.

   5. MVMike Vecchione0:15

      Thanks for having me on, Joe. It's a pleasure to be here.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Hey, my pleasure. You're a funny motherfucker, man.

   7. MVMike Vecchione0:19

      Thank you, man.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      I enjoy your shit.

   9. MVMike Vecchione0:20

      Thank you, man.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       How long have you been doing it?

   11. MVMike Vecchione0:22

       23.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       Nice.

   13. MVMike Vecchione0:23

       Started in October of 2000. Did about three and a half years in Philly with, um, um, De Rosa, Big J, those guys, and then moved h- to New York at the end of, uh, 2003.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Nice.

   15. MVMike Vecchione0:37

       Yeah. I was a teacher. I got a master's in special education. I was working with, uh, kids who had behavioral problems for about eight years.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       You seem like a guy who would work with kids with behavioral problems.

   17. MVMike Vecchione0:47

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       You're very calm.

   19. MVMike Vecchione0:48

       (laughs) Yeah. Very calming.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       (laughs)

   21. MVMike Vecchione0:50

       Very calming. But, uh, th- it was very, very challenging. Very challenging.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       I can imagine that.

   23. MVMike Vecchione0:54

       'Cause kids would, uh, flip, you know, a lot. Every day at work was something different, you know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Oh, man.

   25. MVMike Vecchione0:59

       I worked in a behavioral school for a while, and then, uh, and then went back at night and got my master's 'cause I figured if I'm gonna do this, I might as well teach, and then, uh, taught in a classroom in, in three different public school systems. So, uh-

2. 1:11 – 2:08

   Open mics, bombing, and the heartbreak catalyst that pushed him to grind

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:11

      When did you decide to leave to go comedy full time?

   2. MVMike Vecchione1:16

      Um, I did about th- I started going to open mics. I was in a relationship and, uh, I thought we were gonna get married, and it broke up. I think a lot of comics have this story, you know, where it's a, it's like a heartbreak situation, and then I was just on my own, kinda out there, finishing up my master's. So I started just going to open mics at the Laff House, which is not there anymore. It's a, um, comedy club on South Street, and I just started going every Wednesday, and then I started going on Thursdays and a little bit more, and then I wasn't funny at first. You know, I'd bomb, I would do okay, bomb, do okay, bomb, but I was like, you know, "I'm probably not gonna be able to do this, but it's gonna help me public speaking-wise."

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:53

      Mm.

   4. MVMike Vecchione1:53

      "It's gonna help me somewhere down the line, you know? I got a good vibe for it." So I was like, "Let me just keep doing it." And at that point, you know, I was, uh, you know, alone and I was going through a tough time, so I was like, "I kinda don't care if I fail. I kinda just don't care. I'm gonna just fail-

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:08

      Wow.

3. 2:08 – 4:14

   New York in the early 2000s: club-hopping, face-time, and the Cellar table culture

   1. MVMike Vecchione2:08

      ... and just figure it out, and just keep coming at it." And, uh, because I'm a sensitive guy, so it's like, oh, you know, failure is, had been tough to take. So, uh, I just, just kept doing it. I just kinda, it kinda dropped off because I was going through a tough time. I didn't care about failure, so I just kept doing it and doing it and doing it. And then at the end of 2003, I was working a job I didn't, didn't wanna do anymore, and I just decided to move to New York, and that's when it really... Like, I'm a really... I don't know how much time you spent in New York. I know you're a Boston guy, but, um, I'm a product of the New York City comedy clubs, really, is what I like to say.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:44

      Just hopping, going from club to club?

   3. MVMike Vecchione2:45

      Just hopping. I mean, it's not so much like that anymore, but it used to be. Uh, I don't know how much time you spent there, but it was like you would just run from club to club to club to club to make money.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:54

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   5. MVMike Vecchione2:54

      And that's how I would do it, you know? And, uh, the big club was the Comedy Cellar. Still is.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:59

      Sure.

   7. MVMike Vecchione2:59

      But it's like, uh, the Boston Comedy Club-

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:02

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MVMike Vecchione3:02

      ... I wa- I, I started in New York the last days of the Boston Comedy Club.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       Oh, okay.

   11. MVMike Vecchione3:05

       With Nate and Dustin Shaef and a lot of these guys. So I, uh, I started there, and then what we do is you, I'd go to an open mic first to ch- to make sure you got stage time, and then I would go to The Boston, and The Boston, different comics would run the weeknights, so you would go and hang out and see if you could get on. So I, and then I would do that, and then at the end of the night, you would go to The Cellar and just hang out and just... Hanging out was a big thing back then because you should get your face around, get people to know who you are, and every club had their different, every, uh, city has their different scene, and in New York, we'd end up at The Cellar with, um, Patrice, Keith Robinson, Jim Norton, those guys.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       Yeah.

   13. MVMike Vecchione3:46

       And you'd hang out and, uh, they would just break balls at the table, different time, you know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:51

       Yeah.

   15. MVMike Vecchione3:51

       Everybody would break balls, and then people would get to know you slowly.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:54

       Isn't it crazy to say 2003 is a different time?

   17. MVMike Vecchione3:57

       Different time.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:57

       You talk like you're talking about the '20s. (laughs)

   19. MVMike Vecchione3:59

       Yeah. (laughs) It, but it was a very different, it was a very different landscape back then.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:03

       Yeah.

   21. MVMike Vecchione4:03

       And that's what you had to do. You had to hang and get your face around so people went, "Oh, you know, maybe Mike would be good to open," or "Maybe so-and-so would be good to open for you on the road." You know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       Yeah.

   23. MVMike Vecchione4:12

       And that's how you would get work.

4. 4:14 – 5:29

   Road gigs vs club life: developing material in tough rooms

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      Yeah, I moved to New York in '91, I think, '91 or '92, somewhere around there.

   2. MVMike Vecchione4:19

      Wow.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:19

      And, um, I did the clubs. I did Boston, but mostly I did the road because, like, I lived in New Rochelle. I couldn't afford to live in Manhattan-

   4. MVMike Vecchione4:28

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:28

      ... 'cause I couldn't afford a parking spot, and I did road gigs so much and y- I had a car, and, uh, my thought was like, "I could do these little clubs, but I don't make any money."

   6. MVMike Vecchione4:38

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:38

      "Or I could do, like, Long Island and Connecticut and Jersey."

   8. MVMike Vecchione4:42

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:42

      "And I could make, you know, 150 bucks, 200 bucks for a show."

   10. MVMike Vecchione4:45

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       "And I'd have money."

   12. MVMike Vecchione4:46

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:47

       "And, and I'd be able to do long sets." And I was always a big fan of Hicks, and I knew that Hicks, he did mostly the road.

   14. MVMike Vecchione4:54

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:54

       And he did, like, these real shitholes.

   16. MVMike Vecchione4:56

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       As good as he was-

   18. MVMike Vecchione4:58

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       ... I was like, I always thought that, like, shitholes made shitty comics.

   20. MVMike Vecchione5:01

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       But Hicks kinda changed my mind about that, like, you could do great comedy in front of shitty rooms.

   22. MVMike Vecchione5:06

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:07

       And just sort it out, yeah.

   24. MVMike Vecchione5:07

       And win them over. Yeah, that's really something. That's really what it is 'cause if you let the room change you, you can become a shitty comic that way.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:14

       You can.

   26. MVMike Vecchione5:14

       But if you go, "No, I'm gonna flip them, but on my terms."

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:17

       Yeah.

   28. MVMike Vecchione5:18

       That's a lost art also because if you're big, you know, you have your own fans and stuff, that doesn't come into play, but if you're good and you're on the road, you don't have your own fans, it's like you have to, like, keep just working them-

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:29

       Yeah.

5. 5:29 – 7:52

   Handling hecklers without losing the crowd: ‘neutralizing’ the disruption

   1. MVMike Vecchione5:29

      ... working them, working them. I was at the Atlanta Punchline and this happened where it was, uh, the crowd, you know, they didn't know me, and there was a drunk woman, "It's my birthday! It's my birthday!" Like, making it about her, and, like, younger in comedy, I would've just bailed and just tried to score off of her and win and just, you know, do a penalty kill. You know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:50

      Yeah.

   3. MVMike Vecchione5:50

      Just, just play the set out that way and walk away with the victory. But I decided, you know, "You know what? Let me neutralize her. I don't wanna make it about her. She's being selfish," you know? Stay in the pocket 'cause, and, and I hadn't won the other people over yet. They were still on the fence about, "Who's this guy?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:04

      Yeah.

   5. MVMike Vecchione6:04

      So it's like just keep-... just keep coming, just keep coming. And then working them and bringing them to you, and bringing them to you. And neutralize her, 'cause she's a distraction, and just keeping bringing them, bringing them, bringing them. And at the end, like, I, I, it was good. It was a good set. But I got off stage, I was like, "Oh my God, that was so much work."

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:23

      (laughs)

   7. MVMike Vecchione6:23

      And nobody's gonna know about it. No one's gonna know-

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      Right.

   9. MVMike Vecchione6:26

      ... what happened here. And I walked to the bar and there's a couple of comics at the bar, and one guy looks at me and goes, "I saw what happened."

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:34

       (laughs)

   11. MVMike Vecchione6:34

       He goes, (laughs) "I saw what you did. That was great. That was masterful." I go, "Thank..." At least one witness.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:40

       (laughs)

   13. MVMike Vecchione6:40

       I got one witness who saw what it was.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       Oh, and a comic who knows, like, what it is-

   15. MVMike Vecchione6:44

       Yeah, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:44

       ... and how hard it is to do.

   17. MVMike Vecchione6:45

       It's my birthday.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:46

       Oh God, there's so many of them out there.

   19. MVMike Vecchione6:48

       It's really something. You just go to a, just go to karaoke.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       (sighs) Oh man.

   21. MVMike Vecchione6:51

       What are you doing? Just go to karaoke.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Some lady was fucking up Ron White's set the other night, in, in our club. She yelled out, "Can I get a picture with you?"

   23. MVMike Vecchione7:01

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       She kept saying that in the middle of his fucking bits. Like, he'd be in the middle of the setup, you hear, "Can I get a picture with you?" Oh, it's the worst. And it's f-

   25. MVMike Vecchione7:13

       It's, it's really something 'cause if the crowd's not on your side-

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:15

       Right.

   27. MVMike Vecchione7:15

       ... and you come too hard at her, you know what I mean? Then they're gonna be like, "Whoa, what is this guy?"

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       Right. Right.

   29. MVMike Vecchione7:20

       "This guy's angry now?" It's like they kinda don't get the dynamic of what's happening.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:24

       Right.
6. 7:52 – 12:39

   What if life went differently? Incremental success and comedy as a lifelong build

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:52

      Do you ever stop and think, like, what if you didn't break up with that girl? Like, what if you were still in that relationship-

   2. MVMike Vecchione7:58

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:58

      ... and you never pursued comedy?

   4. MVMike Vecchione8:00

      Yeah. All the time.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:01

      Fuck.

   6. MVMike Vecchione8:02

      All the time. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:03

      Oh my God.

   8. MVMike Vecchione8:04

      And I just... But you know what? I could've, I would've been married. I would've had kids, you know, whatever, and I, I just would've lived that life.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:09

      Yeah.

   10. MVMike Vecchione8:09

       There was a fork in the road. You know what I mean? It was really sad, 'cause I was teaching at the time, working at a behavioral school, and I was with her. And I was like, "Oh, this is probably how this is gonna play out."

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:18

       Yeah.

   12. MVMike Vecchione8:19

       I don't, I don't have that in, the, the thing in me to go out and get spots. 'Cause going out and get spot, getting spots is like, you have to go out and you have to hustle.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:29

       Yeah.

   14. MVMike Vecchione8:29

       And I didn't, I was already working hard in, in my job and, you know, trying to get my master's. I was on a different path. So I didn't have that extra in me to go and try to get, you know, spots at clubs and stuff.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:40

       So when you say that, like, you, wh- when, when, in, at that moment, did, you kind of were, you weren't in a good place, right? So-

   16. MVMike Vecchione8:48

       She broke up with me and I was really, really, uh, we were, we had dated in college and then we, uh, she's from Philadelphia so I hadn't any, n- no ties to Philadelphia. So I move to Philadelphia to try to find a job to be with her. She was in law school. And, um, so yeah, that's, that's what it was.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:07

       I hope she watches you-

   18. MVMike Vecchione9:07

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:08

       ... on YouTube now.

   20. MVMike Vecchione9:09

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:09

       (laughs)

   22. MVMike Vecchione9:10

       I mean, I think she's got a good life. She had a good, she was a good person. She had a, her head on her shoulders and she was-

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       She wasn't into you. It's okay, right?

   24. MVMike Vecchione9:16

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:17

       Yeah, yeah.

   26. MVMike Vecchione9:17

       It hurt though, man. It hurt.

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       I'm sure.

   28. MVMike Vecchione9:18

       And it's heartbreak like that that causes you to go, "Oh yeah, I gotta..." Uh, it, it, it makes you raw. You know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:25

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MVMike Vecchione9:25

       It makes you raw and it makes you go, like, "I'm gonna go out and take some chances and-"
7. 12:39 – 16:39

   Competition mindset, wrestling lessons, and pre-show mental preparation

   1. MVMike Vecchione12:39

      I learned that from wrestling too, like wrestling, like, I was good for my area, like, I learned to wrestle in Flo- in, uh, Ohio and then... Which is a great state and we had a great program, and then I moved to Florida and I finished high school in, uh, Florida, so I wrestled down there. And it's like, I was so focused. I don't know how you were as a competitor, but I was so focused on the win. I wa- I, I wanted to get the win, I wanted to get... It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:03

      Yeah.

   3. MVMike Vecchione13:03

      It's not... And I would psych myself out before matches a lot of times by overthinking it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:08

      Mm.

   5. MVMike Vecchione13:09

      You know? And it's like, "No, no, no, no, it's about the process."

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:12

      Yeah.

   7. MVMike Vecchione13:13

      It's about the process. Train hard, and then... But when it's time to compete then, I wish would've had this back then, it's like, you have to just get yourself up and go out there and just do the things that you train to do.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:25

      Yeah.

   9. MVMike Vecchione13:26

      And I was too focused on the, "Oh, I wanna win, I wanna feel the, I wanna feel the victory." It's like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:30

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MVMike Vecchione13:31

       ... "I wanna win." It's like, "No, no, no, it's the process. Stick to the process." Uh, but I wish would've had that before I went out and competed, like, go out there and just cut through this guy. I didn't have that attitude. I was tired from cutting weight, and, you know, when you go to these tournaments when you wrestle, you, you weigh in. You weigh in and then you would go have breakfast, and then there's a time where you just digest and lay around on the mat a little bit.

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:52

       Mm-hmm.

   13. MVMike Vecchione13:52

       And then start slowly drilling and getting ready for the match. And during that time is when you should be getting your mind right to go out there and, like, take it to them.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:01

       Yeah.

   15. MVMike Vecchione14:01

       And the guys who were successful did that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       Yeah.

   17. MVMike Vecchione14:03

       And I couldn't see it back then, but looking back and having perspective on it, it's like, "I wish I was that." So now I keep that in mind in standup, you know? 'Cause a lot of, a lot of standup is that, you know, being mentally prepared to go up.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:15

       Yes.

   19. MVMike Vecchione14:16

       You know?

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:17

       Yeah. I always tell comics, like, "Don't go up, ju- don't just go cold."

   21. MVMike Vecchione14:20

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       Like, warm your mind up.

   23. MVMike Vecchione14:21

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:22

       I, I pace around.

   25. MVMike Vecchione14:23

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:23

       I breathe deep, I stretch out, I go over my notes. Like, get... You know, maybe you don't need to do that, but you should. It's just, like, good for the head. Just get your, get your mind right.

   27. MVMike Vecchione14:32

       What do you think about before you go up? I mean, you're, you're working these arenas now.

   28. JRJoe Rogan14:36

       Yeah.

   29. MVMike Vecchione14:36

       These gigantic venues. So what do you think about before you go up?

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:40

       Well, arenas, uh, one of the things that I do is I have index cards. So I write out befo- I'll get there early and I'll write out, like, um, just bullet points of all the sets or all the bits, and I'll put them on cards.
8. 16:39 – 21:43

   Performing with joy and empathy: loosening grip on jokes and loving the crowd

   1. MVMike Vecchione16:39

      That's really something. That's really something. I know when I go, I was very, uh, connected to my jokes. I'm like, "This is all about these jokes. It's all about these jokes." I'd, I'd fine-tune them and everything. But then I started to realize it's, it is, the preparation is about your jokes, but it's also about two things. One, going up and having a good time.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:00

      Yeah.

   3. MVMike Vecchione17:00

      You know what I mean? Like, have fun with it. You did all the preparation, now go up and be playful with them. Go up and be playful and be loose. I have to tell myself that, 'cause I'm connected to that. Like, I'm just like, "Let's go-

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:11

      Yeah.

   5. MVMike Vecchione17:11

      ... to the jokes." And the other thing I started doing before I would go up is, uh, what you said. Love the crowd. Love them. Like, love them. Because they have hard lives. They're going through divorce, bankruptcy, all kinds of, like, problems and they, they came out to get a break from that. And, uh, like, in my joke-writing I would forget that. I was like, "This is about the jo- it's about m-" It's like, no, no, no, no. Connect with them, 'cause they maybe need a break-

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:40

      Yeah.

   7. MVMike Vecchione17:40

      ... in their life, you know? And be playful and, you know, love them before you go up. That always helps.

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:46

      Yeah.

   9. MVMike Vecchione17:46

      Even if the set goes bad and you have that mindset going up, it's much easier, it's much easier to deal with.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:52

       Isn't it interesting that standup is such a big thing in terms of, like, how many people go to see it, and how many people love it, and, you know, how many, uh, shows there are on the country at any given time? It's a huge art form in terms of, like, how many people pay for it. But...... very few people share how they do it, and no one teaches it.

   11. MVMike Vecchione18:15

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:15

       It's like, no one can teach you how to do your way-

   13. MVMike Vecchione18:18

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:18

       ... because your way is different than Nate's way.

   15. MVMike Vecchione18:20

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:20

       And Nate's way is different than Ari Shaffir's way.

   17. MVMike Vecchione18:22

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:22

       Like, everybody's got their own style-

   19. MVMike Vecchione18:24

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:24

       ... and their own thing.

   21. MVMike Vecchione18:25

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:25

       And you kinda gotta teach yourself. And all these things you're saying-

   23. MVMike Vecchione18:29

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:29

       ... like knowing how to just go out and love those people, have a good time, be playful. Like, you gotta learn that-

   25. MVMike Vecchione18:34

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:34

       ... on your own.

   27. MVMike Vecchione18:34

       But that's my thing, 'cause I'm t- I'm connected to the jokes.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:37

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MVMike Vecchione18:37

       Like, if you're a guy with a ton of charisma and no act, like, you have a different, you have a different set of struggles.

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:43

       Mm-hmm.
9. 21:43 – 25:29

   Wrestling as MMA’s foundation and the weight-cutting problem

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:43

      And d- wrestling's the most important discipline for MMA, I think.

   2. MVMike Vecchione21:46

      Do you think?

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:46

      Yeah, I think it's the foundation, because the wrestler can dictate where the fight takes place, you know?

   4. MVMike Vecchione21:51

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:51

      If the wrestler chooses to stand, he can stand. If the wrestler wants to get back up, he can get back up.

   6. MVMike Vecchione21:56

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:56

      And if- and the wrestler knows how to take the guy down, whereas, like, even though every fight starts standing up, and it's a big advantage for the striker while they're standing up-

   8. MVMike Vecchione22:04

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:04

      ... but the wrestler, if the wrestler knows how to strike, the striker has to think about two different things simultaneously.

   10. MVMike Vecchione22:10

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:10

       Has to think, "Maybe this guy's gonna shoot, and what if this guy punches me?"

   12. MVMike Vecchione22:13

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:13

       "What if this guy kicks me?"

   14. MVMike Vecchione22:14

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:14

       So there's, like, so many more options that the wrestler has, and there's that threat of the take down-

   16. MVMike Vecchione22:19

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:19

       ... that looms large-

   18. MVMike Vecchione22:20

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:21

       ... that, like, paralyzes guys with anticipation. It's the most important foundation. It's, it's everything in, in MMA. If you can't wrestle, good luck-

   20. MVMike Vecchione22:30

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:30

       ... 'cause you, unless you can land a wild shot-

   22. MVMike Vecchione22:32

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:32

       ... like, you know, uh, Jorge Masvidal and Ben Askren-

   24. MVMike Vecchione22:34

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:35

       ... and unless you get that wild shot off-

   26. MVMike Vecchione22:36

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       ... right away and knock the guy out, it's a long night against the best, one of the best wrestlers.

   28. MVMike Vecchione22:41

       Right. And that wild shot, are you gonna be able to do that every time?

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:44

       Hmm, most likely no.

   30. MVMike Vecchione22:45

       Yeah.
10. 25:29 – 34:21

    Boxing deep dive: Loma, Tank, Fury, Wilder, and why the sport struggles to make fights

    1. MVMike Vecchione25:29

       That's... It's in boxing too. I'm a huge boxing fan.

    2. JRJoe Rogan25:32

       Me too.

    3. MVMike Vecchione25:32

       And, um, I go see... I live by the Garden. I go see Lomachenko-

    4. JRJoe Rogan25:36

       Mm-hmm.

    5. MVMike Vecchione25:36

       ... anytime he's at the Garden.

    6. JRJoe Rogan25:37

       Oh, yeah.

    7. MVMike Vecchione25:37

       Like I'll go see him fight. He's unreal. But it's like, he's gonna fight Devin Haney, you know.

    8. JRJoe Rogan25:42

       Mm-hmm. That's a great fight.

    9. MVMike Vecchione25:42

       So, but he's like... It's a great fight.

    10. JRJoe Rogan25:44

        I'm so excited.

    11. MVMike Vecchione25:44

        I'm so happy it's happening-

    12. JRJoe Rogan25:45

        Yeah, I'm so excited about that.

    13. MVMike Vecchione25:46

        ... at 135. But Haney, I think cuts down from fif- 150, 156-

    14. JRJoe Rogan25:50

        Mm-hmm.

    15. MVMike Vecchione25:50

        Something like that, he's walking around. And, uh, but that's just the-

    16. JRJoe Rogan25:53

        Loma's tiny.

    17. MVMike Vecchione25:54

        Loma's the smaller guy.

    18. JRJoe Rogan25:54

        For that guy. Yeah, he's much smaller than those guys.

    19. MVMike Vecchione25:57

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan25:57

        And that, you saw that in the Teofimo Lopez fight.

    21. MVMike Vecchione25:59

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan26:00

        Like, Lopez is big.

    23. MVMike Vecchione26:02

        He is.

    24. JRJoe Rogan26:02

        He's scary.

    25. MVMike Vecchione26:03

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan26:03

        You know, it's just that power is just such a big advantage-

    27. MVMike Vecchione26:06

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan26:06

        ... and for a big guy who cuts a lot of weight to get to 135.

    29. MVMike Vecchione26:09

        Right, right.

    30. JRJoe Rogan26:10

        Yeah.
11. 34:21 – 1:02:22

    Stalling, stand-ups, and ‘purity of the sport’: Joe’s strong take on MMA refereeing

    1. MVMike Vecchione34:21

       But is there a thing in MMA where it's like a... Are they calling stalemates faster?

    2. JRJoe Rogan34:25

       You mean, getting people back up? They-

    3. MVMike Vecchione34:27

       Yeah, like if the t- if the guy's on top-

    4. JRJoe Rogan34:29

       Mm-hmm.

    5. MVMike Vecchione34:29

       ... and he's not making progress or the guy on bottom isn't getting a wrist or working towards, um, you know, a submission, will they stop them and stand them up faster? I think that's better for the sport. In, in wrestling, they'll hit 'em wi- they'll hit guys with stalling quick.

    6. JRJoe Rogan34:41

       Mm-hmm.

    7. MVMike Vecchione34:42

       To keep the action moving. I know that's not a thing in MMA, but you, you know, it does help the-

    8. JRJoe Rogan34:47

       It used to be-

    9. MVMike Vecchione34:48

       ... optics of it.

    10. JRJoe Rogan34:49

        It used to be in, in Pride they would give them a yellow card and it would take 10% of your purse.

    11. MVMike Vecchione34:53

        Oh, wow.

    12. JRJoe Rogan34:53

        So if you got a yellow card in Pride, that meant you weren't trying to win or you were stalling.

    13. MVMike Vecchione34:58

        Right.

    14. JRJoe Rogan34:58

        And if the, the referee pulled that yellow card out, people were fucking freaking out. Like, you know, if you're getting paid a million dollars, $100,000 is now gone-

    15. MVMike Vecchione35:05

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan35:05

        ... for that yellow card. You're like, "Fuck."

    17. MVMike Vecchione35:07

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan35:08

        And that's a big deal. But-

    19. MVMike Vecchione35:09

        Yeah, is it a warning first? They give a warning before they put the yellow card?

    20. JRJoe Rogan35:13

        I think it was up to the referee's discretion in Pride. I don't remember exactly how they did it, but when they did it, it was a big fucking deal and the crowd would cheer and, you know, and then the guy would a- adjust accordingly. 'Cause if you got two yellow cards, you're fucked.

    21. MVMike Vecchione35:25

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan35:26

        I mean, I don't even know if they gave two yellow cards. I reme- I don't remember that ever happening. I'm sure it did, but I don't remember it ever happening in a fight. But in MMA, the, the controversy is about whether or not you should stand someone up, because you have five minutes. And if someone takes someone down and they're on top of them, it's up to the person who's on the bottom to get back up.

    23. MVMike Vecchione35:46

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan35:46

        Like, that, that's your job.

    25. MVMike Vecchione35:48

        Right.

    26. JRJoe Rogan35:48

        And the guy on top, it's up to him to hold you down. I don't believe in standups. It might be more entertaining for the audience-

    27. MVMike Vecchione35:54

        Right, right.

    28. JRJoe Rogan35:55

        ... but I'm a purist in terms of, like, I think you should control your own destiny in there. And if a guy can hold you down and just punch you in the face while you're on the b- even if it's boring-

    29. MVMike Vecchione36:04

        Right.

    30. JRJoe Rogan36:05

        ... he's doing what he wants to do.
12. 1:02:22 – 1:15:28

    Mental toughness culture: David Goggins, cold plunges, and the discipline to beat ‘the inner voice’

    1. MVMike Vecchione1:02:22

       And that's what, uh ... Goggins, Goggins is my favorite. He's my favorite guy, man.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:02:27

       No, he's amazing.

    3. MVMike Vecchione1:02:27

       I watch all this stuff. I, I put on ... There's this thing on, uh, YouTube called Goggins Motivation.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       (laughs)

    5. MVMike Vecchione1:02:31

       So I'll be stretching, and it's just him talking.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:34

       Yeah.

    7. MVMike Vecchione1:02:34

       It's just, he's unreal, man.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:02:36

       No, he's unreal. And that's-

    9. MVMike Vecchione1:02:37

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:37

        That guy. You wanna talk about mental toughness, that guy has destroyed knees.

    11. MVMike Vecchione1:02:41

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:41

        And he-

    13. MVMike Vecchione1:02:42

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:42

        ... he runs thousands of miles, and it's just like every day he's running 15, 20 miles.

    15. MVMike Vecchione1:02:46

        Right.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:46

        Every day.

    17. MVMike Vecchione1:02:47

        Right.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:47

        With destroyed knees.

    19. MVMike Vecchione1:02:48

        But he, he's taken his life where he came from, which is a terrible, terrible situation, and transformed himself.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:56

        Mm-hmm.

    21. MVMike Vecchione1:02:56

        That's what I love about him.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:57

        Yeah.

    23. MVMike Vecchione1:02:58

        The fact ... And he, and he's able to articulate it.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:03:00

        Yeah.

    25. MVMike Vecchione1:03:00

        You know? And he does it very well. And he also talks about mental toughness in a way that I've never heard anybody talk about mental toughness. You know, when I was growing up, maybe it's the same for you, it's like, "You gotta be mentally tough. You gotta be mentally tough. You gotta suck it up. Suck it up."

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:03:12

        Mm-hmm.

    27. MVMike Vecchione1:03:12

        And it's like, you're processing that, but he breaks down, "What does that actually mean? In the suck." Which is what he called ... You know what I mean?

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:03:20

        Yeah.

    29. MVMike Vecchione1:03:20

        Like, it's that conversation that you're having with yourself-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:22

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:41:14