Joe Rogan Experience #2012 - Gad Saad

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Gad Saad 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) How are you, sir?

Gad Saad 0:13 Oh my God, I'm excited to see you.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Good to see you. It's always great to see you.

Gad Saad 0:16 I think this is the ninth time I appear, so am I entering kind of Hall of Fame status, or...

Joe Rogan 0:22 Yeah, there's like a-after five, anybody with more than five. (laughs)

Gad Saad 0:26 S- that should be like the top line on my CV. Forget about all the other bullshit. Nine times on Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan 0:32 We've had some fun conversations.

Gad Saad 0:33 Yeah, before we start, today, July 25th, is the release of my latest book.

Joe Rogan 0:38 All right.

Gad Saad 0:39 Here's a copy for you, sir.

Joe Rogan 0:40 Thank you very much. The Sad Truth About Happiness: Eight Secrets for Leading the Good Life.

Gad Saad 0:46 Boom.

Joe Rogan 0:47 All right.

Gad Saad 0:48 Please read it.

Joe Rogan 0:49 I will.

Gad Saad 0:49 You'll enjoy it. Lot of-

Joe Rogan 0:50 Did you do the audiobook?

Gad Saad 0:52 Oh, f- you know, I swear to God, the number one thing I was worried that you were going to ask me-

Joe Rogan 0:56 (laughs)

Gad Saad 0:56 ... was that, and you lead off with that. Uh, so here's what happened.

Joe Rogan 1:00 An actor does it.

Gad Saad 1:02 So he has a beautiful voice.

Joe Rogan 1:03 (laughs)

Gad Saad 1:05 I, I insisted, I said, "Joe Rogan berated me on his show for maybe 15 minutes. Listen to him." They pitched it to the audio publisher. The pu- audio publisher said, "Sorry, we do in-house narration."

Joe Rogan 1:19 Well, now...

Gad Saad 1:19 So I think for the next book, I'll put it as part of the contract.

Joe Rogan 1:22 Yeah, it has to be. They're silly. They're silly, especially in, you're a public figure. Like, there's hours, and hours, and hours-

Gad Saad 1:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30 ... and hours, and hours, and hours of you talking.

Gad Saad 1:32 Indeed.

Joe Rogan 1:32 Now, when people wanna hear your words, they wanna hear them through your mouth.

Gad Saad 1:36 And it's personal stories.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Yes.

Gad Saad 1:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38 It makes no sense.

Gad Saad 1:40 I, I'm sold. I've, believe me, I've fought the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:42 That's so crazy.

Gad Saad 1:42 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:42 But it's such a, it's such a silly fight to have when someone's a professional public speaker-

Gad Saad 1:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48 ... like yourself. Like, it doesn't make any sense.

Gad Saad 1:51 With a v- very velvety voice.

Joe Rogan 1:53 Velvety.

Gad Saad 1:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:54 Smooth. And, you know, uh, w- who's closer to the subject matter, right?

Gad Saad 1:59 Indeed, indeed.

Joe Rogan 1:59 Like, come on. You know the truth behind the words.

Gad Saad 2:02 I-

Joe Rogan 2:02 Like, you're gonna say these things, you, if you're talking about especially like real life experiences, you're saying them as you.

Gad Saad 2:09 I lead off, by the way, in, in th- first chapter to talk about sort of existential happiness, about how I came very close to being aborted in Lebanon. I don't want somebody else to be telling that story.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Right, right.

Gad Saad 2:21 So...

Joe Rogan 2:21 Right, right, right. Of course. Your story is wild.

Gad Saad 2:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:26 You know, um, what I find about people like yourself that have been through, um, (sighs) u- uh, like, like a really scary thing, really scary-

Gad Saad 2:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:37 ... like genuinely scary, like scary threats, th- threats to your life, war zone stuff.

Gad Saad 2:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:43 Folks like yourself have so much less patience for nonsense.

Gad Saad 2:47 Exactly, and that's why I sometimes can appear irascible-

Joe Rogan 2:51 Yeah.

Gad Saad 2:51 ... when I go after p- 'Cause sometimes people will say, "You know, when I meet you, you seem so much nicer and warmer than how you are on social media."

Joe Rogan 2:59 (laughs)

Gad Saad 2:59 But I'm not trying to be mean on social media. It's that I'm pissed off at the bullshit.

Joe Rogan 3:03 Yeah.

Gad Saad 3:03 And so it comes across as though, you know, I'm cantankerous and combative, but I'm just really fighting, hopefully, the good fight.

Joe Rogan 3:10 W- the real problem with social media is the problem with human beings. It's tribal groupthink.

Gad Saad 3:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:15 And it, it overwhelms these groups of people that you associate with, and then narratives get formed, and you can't stray outside those narratives. You can't even look at objective reality. You can't look at data. You can't look at da- It just becomes so crazy at the ideology and the adherence to that ideology trumps everything. Trumps the truth. It trumps y- your willing, as long as the politician's on your side, to ignore craziness, corruption, horrible shit. You ignore all of it.

Gad Saad 3:47 Perfect example of that, I hate to say that I'm, I've seen his feed, Meathead from All in the Family, Rob Reiner. Have you ever gone to his...

Joe Rogan 3:56 (sighs) I read a couple of tweets and then I'm like, "I'm out." (laughs)

Gad Saad 4:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:00 I love his work too much.

Gad Saad 4:01 But, I know, I know. It's hard to then like his work when he's-

Joe Rogan 4:05 Yeah. I, I-

Gad Saad 4:05 He is so overwhelmingly a- obsessed with, with Trump. Stephen King is another guy who-

Joe Rogan 4:13 Yeah.

Gad Saad 4:13 ... uh, fits that description.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Something happens to old liberals-

Gad Saad 4:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:17 ... with a ton of money. (laughs)

Gad Saad 4:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:21 It's like something happens to those old creative types.

Gad Saad 4:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:26 It just, you know, doesn't make sense.

Gad Saad 4:28 It-

Joe Rogan 4:28 It doesn't make sense that you're arguing with people online about it all day long if you're Rob Reiner or if you're Stephen King, like putting, you know, nasty tweets out. It's like, come on.

Gad Saad 4:38 So I actually, I, I wrote, maybe it was shameless plugging of my book, but I, I re- responded to Rob Reiner. I said, "Let me send you a copy of my book. Man, there's so much that you have to be happy about. Stop m- being mired endlessly in vitriol." I mean, that's all he does. I mean, imagine this guy, how many things he's got to be grateful about. He's a creative guy-

Joe Rogan 5:00 Yeah.

Gad Saad 5:00 ... a talented guy, and he spends all day obsessing on issues that ultimately he's got no control over.

Joe Rogan 5:06 Well, people f- viewed Trump as an existential-

Gad Saad 5:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:10 ... threat to the, the f- the, the very fundamentals of the country. They, they-

Gad Saad 5:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:15 ... thought that he was gonna come in and he was gonna represent corruption, uh, at on a level that we've never seen before. But the problem with doing that and saying that is that it opens the door to examining all the other corruption. Like, how much corruption is there?

Gad Saad 5:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:30 Like how much, what do you, w- who's, how much money are you guys making? Like, how-

Gad Saad 5:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:34 ... where is this money coming from? There's so much corruption that's readily available that once you start opening the door to calling someone a monster, then everyone gets to look at you and go-

Gad Saad 5:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:44 ... "Hey, but what about you guys? Like, what are you doing?" Or, w- what about, what about drone bombings? What about, like-

Gad Saad 5:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:50 ... let's talk about some real problems. So that, what is it, what about the fentanyl crisis? Like, what about, you know, what about the, the, the borders where, like, criminals are coming through? Like, how many are being sent back? What's the numbers?

Gad Saad 6:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:01 What's the numbers? I mean, a lot of them are good people that just wanna find a better way to live, and good for them. And I would do it t- I would do it too if I could sneak across into America-

Gad Saad 6:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:10 ... and be assimilated, I would fucking do it.

Gad Saad 6:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:12 Why wouldn't you?

Gad Saad 6:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:13 If you, if you got a bad roll of the dice and you're living in somewhere that's less favorable and you get the opportunity to just... All you have to do is get across the river and they let you in. But how many of those people shouldn't be here? How many of those people are dangerous? How many? What's the number? It's not zero. What's the number?

Gad Saad 6:28 Well, well, I could tell you that, uh, I've, we've talked about this in the past when we've talked about people who come from certain cultures where there is rampant antisemitism, right?

Joe Rogan 6:37 Yes.

Gad Saad 6:38 And so if you let people that are coming from cultures where, when they're polled, somewhere between 90% to 99% of them will exhibit-... rampant Jew hatred. It doesn't take much of a, uh, social- sociologist or a, you know, survey analyst to recognize that out of all those people that are coming in, you're going to have an increase of Jew hatred. Yesterday, I was out with some friends, um, here in Austin, and so one of them asked me, "Have you, have you seen an uptake on, uh, you know, Jew hatred? Are you exposed to more?" And I say, "Oh, it's, it's, it's endless." It's not. I mean, it's usually on social media.

Joe Rogan 7:10 W- w- do you think it's ramped up or do you think now that Elon has, uh, taken over Twitter and allowed much more free speech-

Gad Saad 7:18 Hard for me to tell.

Joe Rogan 7:19 ... do you think?

Gad Saad 7:19 I don't, I really don't know, but it, there is kind of a normalized... Now, many of them are behind anonymous accounts.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Of course.

Gad Saad 7:26 But there is kind of a, a cavalier normalization of just say- so for example, I think someone had retweeted, you know, a promotional thing about my book, and someone said, you know, "Why are you promoting the Jew?" You're like, "My God, this, this guy could be your, your son's teacher. He could be your-"

Joe Rogan 7:45 Yeah.

Gad Saad 7:45 ... uh, the grocer at the store."

Joe Rogan 7:47 You know what? I, I have a real concern with that, and I also have a real concern with vested entities, like s- organizations that would want people to be at each other's throats, stirring up things with fake social media posts.

Gad Saad 8:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:02 'Cause this is a real problem that's happening in the world right now.

Gad Saad 8:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:06 You know, um, someone, um, tweeted a bunch of different examples, uh, of where dozens and dozens of accounts are saying the same inflammatory things with the exact same wordage. Exact. And they're all, like, you know, they have numbers and letters-

Gad Saad 8:23 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 8:23 ... in their accounts, like just random accounts. And, you know, you go to their page, it looks kinda real. They have a photo. There's, like, them with a flag. It's like, and you go through it, and you, but you get this sense, like, oh, you're, you're a bot. Like, you're not even-

Gad Saad 8:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:36 ... a real person. Like, so you, you're an agent of, you're stirring up bullshit. So there's a certain aspect of our culture. I don't know what the percentage is, but there's a certain aspect of the conversations online that are being flavored by fake accounts that are designed to get people upset with each other.

Gad Saad 8:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:58 It's like psychological warfare on a level that no one anticipated and no one's prepared for, because th- when you have the two things we already discussed, like this adherence to the ideology no matter what, no matter what, like e- there's no... You can't objectively, logically defend any of the things that are in, in opposition of it.

Gad Saad 9:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:21 And then you have this.

Gad Saad 9:22 So are you... I, I noticed, uh, I mean, obviously we follow each other on Twitter. You almost never, I mean, short of the recent thing you did with, uh, Peter Hotez, you almost never weigh in on anything. Is- has- was that sort of a conscious thing for you to step back and-

Joe Rogan 9:37 Yeah. Well, with that one, it was like, okay, this is crazy. You're, you're, you're-

Gad Saad 9:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:41 ... you're saying that he, he was, he made some crazy tweet about neo-fascist leanings.

Gad Saad 9:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that.

Joe Rogan 9:49 Like, what are you talking about?

Gad Saad 9:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:50 Like, with Robert Kennedy Jr., with me. I'm like, this is dangerous. Like, what you're saying is totally untrue.

Gad Saad 9:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:56 You know it's untrue, and you're willing to just say it because it, like, the, the more you can discredit someone who's in opposition to some of your ideas, the, the more you can somehow or another in your weird game of checkers you're playing, like, elevate yourself. But you don't think people know what you're doing? Like, that's like the, the most clear obv- neo-fascist? Like, what the fuck are you saying?

Gad Saad 10:17 Did you feel more angry at the fact that you had already had a conversation with him, and so you, there was some kind of personal connection between you two? I mean, I understand he's not your best friend.

Joe Rogan 10:27 For sure. I've had him on at least... W- was he on twice?

Narrator 10:31 Twice, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:32 Twice. I've had him on twice.

Gad Saad 10:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:33 I was very nice to him.

Gad Saad 10:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:34 Even w- in disagreement with him, like in issues of health. I was very nice to him.

Gad Saad 10:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:40 (sighs) But you can't just say stuff like that. And, you know, it's like, I just wanted to say, like, have a debate with the guy.

Gad Saad 10:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Like, have a debate with the guy.

Gad Saad 10:47 So what ended up happening? I think it got up to, like, two-

Joe Rogan 10:49 He's-

Gad Saad 10:49 ... $2 million.

Joe Rogan 10:50 ... he's not, he's not gonna do it.

Gad Saad 10:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 10:51 He won't do it. You know.

Gad Saad 10:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:53 I don't think he wants to do it. You know, and there's, there's the idea that, like, Robert Kennedy would be too silver-tongued, like, psh, psh, psh. Oh, come on. 'Cause he's a lawyer, you know.

Gad Saad 11:03 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 11:03 And he's really good at arguing stuff. Like, like, if you- e- either you either have facts or you don't have facts.

Gad Saad 11:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:07 And if you're scared to debate the facts, I have to go, "What are these facts?"

Gad Saad 11:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:11 Or what's bothering you?

Gad Saad 11:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Like, what are you worried that he might bring up?

Gad Saad 11:14 I mean-

Joe Rogan 11:14 Like, what are we saying?

Gad Saad 11:15 ... it, it could be the case. So for example, I've been often asked, "Why don't you debate creationists-

Joe Rogan 11:20 Right.

Gad Saad 11:20 ... about evolution?" And I take the position there of Richard Dawkins, which is, it's not that I'm too haughty to debate anyone. It's that there's almost no chance that I could present any evidence that would cause you to alter your position.

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah.

Gad Saad 11:34 So it's really a losing proposition. So could it be that Peter Hotez is coming from that perspective?

Joe Rogan 11:40 It could, but you know what I would say to that? Even in your case, it is preposterous for someone to, to not believe that at least there's a process of evolution n- at, at this stage of, of-

Gad Saad 11:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:52 ... it's, it's kinda crazy to, 'cause there's like f- there's evidence of things that are happening where things are adapting to their environment-

Gad Saad 11:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:58 ... right now that we've, we've tracked.

Gad Saad 12:00 Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 12:01 Like, you know there's a little antelope in the Congo that swims underwater and eats fish?

Gad Saad 12:05 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 12:06 Yeah. It's called a duiker. I think it's called a duiker, D-U-I-K-E-R, I think that's how you say it. But this little animal evolved, uh, lived on grasslands, and the grasslands became rainforest. And when the grasslands, these little, like, prairie animals-

Gad Saad 12:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:21 ... were trapped inside the Congo. There's an amazing BBC documentary about it.

Gad Saad 12:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:25 But they've got, like, these things are evolving.

Gad Saad 12:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:28 Like, they're figuring out how to swim. (laughs)

Gad Saad 12:30 But believe me, having spent 30 years trying to convince some of my academic colleagues about the value of evolution in studying human behavior, they all go, "La, la, la, I don't wanna hear it."

Joe Rogan 12:40 Right, right. With human behavior.

Gad Saad 12:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:42 And especially with, y- you know, w-

Gad Saad 12:44 Oh, there we go.

Joe Rogan 12:45 ... certain narratives.... so this one is just swimming in the water, but these motherfuckers can go underwater. They can sw- the, the duikers that they were talking about in the Congo, they can swim under water for like a 100 yards.

Gad Saad 12:56 Why do I feel that the crocodile's about to hit any second now?

Joe Rogan 12:59 'Cause we've seen too many of those videos. (laughs)

Gad Saad 13:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:02 (laughs)

Gad Saad 13:02 That, that is arguably one of the scariest-

Joe Rogan 13:05 Scenarios?

Gad Saad 13:05 ... nat- yes, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:06 The scariest, the fucking scariest.

Speaker 13:08 Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I have to pause. Something happened with my video-

Joe Rogan 13:11 Oh.

Speaker 13:11 ... feed right now.

Joe Rogan 13:12 Oh.

Speaker 13:12 It's some, doing some, it's mixing your two things really strangely. I need to-

Joe Rogan 13:16 Do we, we got to reboot?

Speaker 13:17 ... pass it to, not a reboot, I just gotta figure out what happened.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Oh, okay.

Gad Saad 13:19 But we got everything else?

Speaker 13:20 No, yeah, it's so, it's just, yeah when I cut to your camera-

Joe Rogan 13:22 What's it-

Speaker 13:23 ... it's blending them together in a strange way.

Joe Rogan 13:24 So the people only listening to audio, this is a special segment of the podcast.

Speaker 13:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:28 It's only just for you.

Gad Saad 13:29 There you go.

Joe Rogan 13:30 'Cause the video's fucked. Should we stop talking?

Speaker 13:33 I mean, you can keep talking, it's just that the video looks weird, so I don't want to be a distraction.

Joe Rogan 13:37 All right. Well, let's fix it.

Speaker 13:39 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 13:39 We'll pause. We'll be right back. We're back.

Gad Saad 13:41 All right. Uh-

Joe Rogan 13:42 Little technical difficulties.

Gad Saad 13:43 Can I... I just wanna close the parenthesis on something that happened from last show.

Joe Rogan 13:47 Oh.

Gad Saad 13:47 Incredible story. You ready?

Joe Rogan 13:49 Yeah.

Gad Saad 13:50 That's actually speaks about connecting with people. So, last show you had asked me, or not you had asked me, we were talking about who would be some guests that we'd really wanna have on our respective shows and y- you probably don't remember what my two celebrities were, do you? Have I just-

Joe Rogan 14:04 I don't, I don't remember.

Gad Saad 14:04 Clint Eastwood.

Joe Rogan 14:06 Mm.

Gad Saad 14:06 And, first I appreciate his politics and I've been watching him since I was a kid in Lebanon. Uh, number two was Burt Bacharach who's, I don't, do you remember who that is? Burt-

Joe Rogan 14:17 I remember the name.

Gad Saad 14:18 Burt Bacharach i- is the, uh, music composer who's basically written songs for everybody. Uh, he was featured in one of the Austin Powers movie-

Joe Rogan 14:28 Oh.

Gad Saad 14:29 ... where he, the guy says, "Ladies and gentlemen, Burt Bacharach." You know? Anyways, uh, after our chat aired, I go on my Instagram, I have a personal DM, private DM from what looks like the account of Burt Bacharach, who's, you know, arguably the biggest musical, you know, composer in the United States. So I'm extremely excited. It turns out it was his son, who said, "Oh, y- your, your clip with Joe Rogan, uh, was passed onto me, uh, and I think I would, it would be great for, I'd love for my dad to come on your show."

Joe Rogan 15:08 Oh.

Gad Saad 15:09 And... Now, cut to the punchline, it never ended up happening, he recently passed away, so perhaps he wasn't, I mean, he was like 94, 95. But just the fact that you and I are having a conversation, someone else picks it up and then my word can n- my world can intersect with Burt Bacharach, whom there is no conceivable place where his word and, world and mine would ever connect. That's the beauty of life.

Joe Rogan 15:35 Wow. That is the beauty of life. That's awesome.

Gad Saad 15:38 Isn't that amazing?

Joe Rogan 15:39 Yeah. Cl-

Gad Saad 15:39 You are a connector, sir.

Joe Rogan 15:41 I try to be. Clint Eastwood would be an interesting guy to talk to. Like, the guy still works.

Gad Saad 15:46 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 15:46 You know, he's like 93 years old, he's still out there making movies.

Gad Saad 15:49 Yeah, well I don't-

Joe Rogan 15:50 Still enjoys it.

Gad Saad 15:50 I remember in Lebanon when I, I, you know, I only learned English in, in, when I moved to, to Canada when I was 11. And I, I got all the communication I needed to get, even though there wasn't much dialogue in the spaghetti westerns. I would look at him and I would say, "That's, that's the man." You know? And so he's-

Joe Rogan 16:09 Remember Every Which Way But Loose?

Gad Saad 16:10 Of course.

Joe Rogan 16:11 He hung around with an orangutan. (laughs)

Gad Saad 16:14 (laughs) So that's a bit later, right? That's-

Joe Rogan 16:15 That's a fucking movie.

Gad Saad 16:16 That's in the '70s, right?

Joe Rogan 16:18 I, I believe so.

Gad Saad 16:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:20 I believe it was the '70s.

Gad Saad 16:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:22 He played a bare knuckle boxer-

Gad Saad 16:23 That's right.

Joe Rogan 16:24 ... who traveled around with an orangutan.

Gad Saad 16:27 That's right, that's right.

Joe Rogan 16:27 (laughs)

Gad Saad 16:27 Yeah, I think that sounds like '77. But I'm talking in the '60s. I'm talking, you know, '65, '67, '68 when I'm, you know, four or five years old and I'm watching this guy in, in, in Lebanon.

Joe Rogan 16:39 Wow.

Gad Saad 16:40 That's the power of, you know, the male archetype. It's in- it's incredible.

Joe Rogan 16:44 That is still Every Which Way But Loose, right? I'm not conflating two movies, right? That's the movie that, where he was the bare knuckle boxer, isn't it?

Gad Saad 16:50 I think that sounds right.

Joe Rogan 16:51 Yeah.

Speaker 16:52 I think so, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:54 Yeah.

Gad Saad 16:54 And I think at the-

Joe Rogan 16:55 (laughs)

Gad Saad 16:55 ... time his, his love interest in the, in that movie-

Narrator 16:58 Oh, Jesus.

Joe Rogan 16:58 What the hell was that, Jamie?

Gad Saad 16:59 ... was that-

Joe Rogan 16:59 Jesus, Jamie. You got the wrong tab open up, son.

Gad Saad 17:01 (laughs)

Speaker 17:01 I started the trailer and it's the first-

Joe Rogan 17:04 How dare you.

Narrator 17:04 ... how about taking in a new movie? Okay. What do you have in mind?

Speaker 17:06 I guess that's what this trailer is and I don't know why there's nothing on it.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Oh, you can't see the video?

Speaker 17:11 I don't know yet, so I don't know.

Gad Saad 17:11 Oh, what is happening?

Joe Rogan 17:13 Okay.

Narrator 17:14 (sighs)

Speaker 17:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:15 But it's weird. Oh, there's the video.

Gad Saad 17:16 That's the one.

Narrator 17:17 Well, uh, yeah I guess so.

Speaker 17:19 I don't know what that voice is over it.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Yeah. It seems like someone was-

Gad Saad 17:22 Oh, I said '77, it's '78, there you go.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Yeah.

Gad Saad 17:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:26 It's such a dumbass movie. (laughs)

Gad Saad 17:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:30 Those movies are great though.

Gad Saad 17:32 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:32 I love movies from that era, like ridiculous like, like, uh, Smokey and the Bandit.

Gad Saad 17:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:37 I mean, come on man.

Gad Saad 17:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:39 Jackie Gleason, you got Burt Reynolds-

Gad Saad 17:42 Burt Reynolds, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:42 ... Sally Field.

Gad Saad 17:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Come on man, that, that's a fun movie.

Gad Saad 17:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:47 Jackie Gleason plays a, a cop. It's hilarious.

Gad Saad 17:51 Yeah, yeah. Uh, what, what's your favorite movie of all time if you had to pick one?

Joe Rogan 17:54 I really don't think I have one, but you know what I watched recently, I re-watched, is, um, 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Gad Saad 18:01 Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 18:01 I forgot how good that was. That movie is amazing. It's not just amazing, it's amazing visually and it's from 1968.

Gad Saad 18:10 Yeah, it's amazing.

Joe Rogan 18:11 The, the special effects are so good, like all through it, like even the apes in the beginning, you know the scene where they're evolving?

Gad Saad 18:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:20 When they encounter the monolith.

Gad Saad 18:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:22 The fucking special effects on the apes is pretty goddamn good for 1968.

Gad Saad 18:27 Yeah, yeah. My, my all time favorite, the original 12 Angry Men.

Joe Rogan 18:32 Mm.

Gad Saad 18:32 I first saw... And actually it speaks to what we talked about earlier about how you can't get someone to change their mind when they're in a tribal mindset, because I watched the, the movie for the first time in a first semester. I was an MBA student and I was taking a, uh, organizational behavior class, where the professor assigned us that movie to watch it to demonstrate group dynamics. Because for those of you who don't... Have, have you seen it, Joe?

Joe Rogan 18:56 I don't think I have.

Gad Saad 18:58 Oh, you need to. Rent it tonight. So basically-

Joe Rogan 18:59 Who's in it?

Gad Saad 19:00 It's, uh, Henry Fonda.

Joe Rogan 19:02 Oh wait-

Gad Saad 19:02 That's it. That's the one.

Joe Rogan 19:05 Okay.Okay. I think I have, but it was a long, long time ago.

Gad Saad 19:09 So, let me tell you the premise.

Joe Rogan 19:10 Okay.

Gad Saad 19:10 Uh, 12 guys get together in a room. They're trying to discuss whether a guy should be put to de- uh, you know, found guilty. They take a s- a poll. 11 say, "He's absolutely guilty. Let's go home." One guy, Henry Fonda, says, "Hey, let's, let's sit and talk about it." The rest of the movie is how he gets each of the 11 other guys to flip their positions. And so that's why I had watched it in that MBA course, because it demonstrates how, you know, there are techniques you can use to try to persuade people. Of course-

Joe Rogan 19:41 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 19:41 ... today you could almost never do it. I could never convince Rob Reiner of anything, but, you know ...

Joe Rogan 19:45 Ah, I mean, I wouldn't s- necessarily say that. I think some people are just like really deeply cemented in their belief systems.

Gad Saad 19:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:53 And I mean, maybe they can relax. It's still, it's still po- y- you're, you're a human being. If you're a human being and you're willing to look at objective truth, you can realize that, like, there's some other things afoot. There's like, there's a tribal aspect to all of our ideological, um, problems that makes o- objective reasoning a giant problem. It d- it just, like, it gets in the way of everything, because people are so tribally committed right now. And that, they're tribally committed to this idea that the other side is the end of the world if they take power.

Gad Saad 20:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:26 And there's all these different things that are bounced back a- around, these c- these societal issues that keep getting bounced back around, where you go like, "What? What a- why aren't these resolved?" Like, the Roe v. Wade one, and now they're talking about, uh, g- gay marriage, like s- doing the same thing with gay marriage. Like, it's just ... Why do you wanna do this? Uh, d- are you doing this because you just want people to squabble about shit? 'Cause that's what it seems like, 'cause that's the only reason why you would ha- have, like, Supreme Court conversations about gay marriage in 2023.

Gad Saad 20:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:56 Like, why would y-

Gad Saad 20:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:58 Who the fuck? Why ... What?

Gad Saad 21:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:00 Like, what do you j- f-

Gad Saad 21:02 We've already had that debate, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:03 That's ... We're gone.

Gad Saad 21:04 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:04 We passed that. We passed that.

Gad Saad 21:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:06 So if that's still an i- if e- people even wanna bring it up for debate, like, j- are ... Is that real? Or is this one of those things that keeps us culturally squabbling, and it keeps people, like, ideologically connected to one group and, uh, opposed with all their vitri- all the other group. The other, the group, th- they're, they're monsters. They're evil.

Gad Saad 21:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:26 The, the, the ruin of society.

Gad Saad 21:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:28 And this, this fucking bipolar aspect to our, our society is just, it's f- it's fed by social media. It's fed by these fake accounts. It's fed-

Gad Saad 21:39 Th-

Joe Rogan 21:39 ... by, you know, soulless commentators.

Gad Saad 21:42 Th- the saddest part is when that tribalism comes into your own family, so ...

Joe Rogan 21:48 Ugh.

Gad Saad 21:48 So here's an incredible story. Uh, I had, I've appeared on Tucker Carlson's sh- I mean, his old show, uh, several times on television, but his long-form, uh, podcast that he used to do, uh, he had invited us to ... Us meaning my, my family and I, to Florida to do his show. He was super gracious, super warm with everybody, with our ki- with my kids and so on. And so I put out a tweet just thanking him for his hospitality. "Hey, Tucker, it was so nice to meet you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to chat," blah, blah, blah. A cousin of mine, Joe, who went through the Lebanese Civil War with me and who was my best friend growing up in Lebanon. So you would think that if there's ever a relationship that's cemented in the trials and tribulations of our childhood, it would be that relationship.

Joe Rogan 22:33 Yeah.

Gad Saad 22:34 So he puts out a tweet, and he says something. I mean, I don't remember it exactly, although I quote it in the book, Unhappiness, uh, because I'm basically arguing, "Don't, don't live your life like my cousin."

Joe Rogan 22:44 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 22:44 Uh, he puts out a tweet saying something like, "Have you no shame?" Right? So he decides to publicly shame me for being associated or agreeing to go on Tucker Carlson's show. That shows you what tribalism can do to the human mind. It takes something as difficult as what we went through through the Lebanese Civil War, and it, uh, erases it because he can't believe that I could do something as grotesque as to talk to Tucker Carlson.

Joe Rogan 23:12 Yeah. There ... And if you g- asked him for examples, specific examples of why Tucker Carlson is so horrible, that's where it would get interesting.

Gad Saad 23:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:20 'Cause some people might be able to say some things they found disagreeable, but most people are just sticking to a narrative.

Gad Saad 23:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:26 There's just this narrative that he is evil incarnate. He is a transphobe or, uh, uh-

Gad Saad 23:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:32 ... whatever it is.

Gad Saad 23:33 He's a, he's a Putin stooge.

Joe Rogan 23:35 Mm-hmm. Yeah. He's a Putin stooge. They, they ... There's all these different things.

Gad Saad 23:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:38 But, yeah. They, they wanna ignore all evidence that he's a lovely guy.

Gad Saad 23:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:42 Because it's like it's-

Gad Saad 23:43 And he really is.

Joe Rogan 23:45 Y- th- uh, by all accounts. By all accounts. All the people that I know that have had interactions with him say he's a very lovely guy, including my friend, Steve Rinella. He had him on a podcast, and these people that, you know, they had these ideas of who he was before he came on his podcast. And he's like, "They all came away from, like, saying, 'I really like him.'"

Gad Saad 24:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:00 "He's a really nice guy."

Gad Saad 24:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:02 Even if you don't agree with his politics, he seems like a really nice guy.

Gad Saad 24:05 Gracious, down to earth. Uh, what I-

Joe Rogan 24:08 Yeah.

Gad Saad 24:08 What I love ... Y- y- you know how y- y- you often say if you wanna know whether the date that you're out o- with is a good person, see how she, he or she treats the server at the restaurant?

Joe Rogan 24:17 Sure.

Gad Saad 24:17 So the way he interacted with my children, right? He, he, he was focused on them. He was at- um, "So how are you doing? How are you enjoy-" Right? So he's-

Joe Rogan 24:25 Yeah.

Gad Saad 24:25 ... he's taking his ti- uh, he- he's not acting haughty, you know, "I'm this big star." He is focused on my children. I thought that was really lovely. That's what I was trying to convey in that tweet. But to my cousin, that was beyond the pale.

Joe Rogan 24:37 Hmm. Yeah, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that someone would turn on you like that.

Gad Saad 24:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:45 It's just so foolish. It's so foolish because it's, uh, first of all, that should be something that you would have a conversation with somebody about. Like if I care about someone, they're, they're talking to someone that I find egregious, you know, I think you would have a conversation with them. You'd call them up, and you'd go-

Gad Saad 25:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:02 ... "Hey man, just, this is what I think."

Gad Saad 25:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 And like, "You tell me what you think."

Gad Saad 25:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:05 "I wanna know what you think." Uh, so, but there are certain ...... like, narratives that you can't... Like, anything on Fox News is the Hitler.

Gad Saad 25:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:14 It's, it's the Hitler. It's the evil. It's the-

Gad Saad 25:16 Well, I'll be on-

Joe Rogan 25:17 ... the, and-

Gad Saad 25:18 I'll be on the Hitler channel tomorrow-

Joe Rogan 25:19 (laughs)

Gad Saad 25:19 ... when I go to Greg Gutfeld.

Joe Rogan 25:21 Yeah. It's like, I mean, I think they're trying to reform that in some sort of a way.

Gad Saad 25:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:27 And I think, uh, Fox News is getting a lot of pushback from people on the right that are very concerned with, you know, some of the decisions they're making and that they're, they're kinda going down the same path that a lot of these other corporations have gone down.

Gad Saad 25:42 Do you have a sense of what, uh, happened with the T- do you have any...

Joe Rogan 25:45 Uh-uh.

Gad Saad 25:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:47 So I don't know what happened with Tucker Carlson. I don't know why he got fired. I know as much as the average person who reads Reddit (laughs) .

Gad Saad 25:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:54 You know (laughs) .

Gad Saad 25:54 That's right.

Joe Rogan 25:54 I know some conspiracies. I know, I know he was, uh, a, the, he was, like, this kinda wild fella when you think about, like, what he was doing on a, a major television show, implicating the CIA in the assassination, assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Gad Saad 26:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:12 And he's saying with, like, utmost certainty.

Gad Saad 26:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Right? It's like-

Gad Saad 26:16 But, so you think that the reason of firing him was that they, he, they thought that he didn't adhere to some journalistic ethic or rigor or something like that?

Joe Rogan 26:24 I don't know.

Gad Saad 26:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:25 That could be the case.

Gad Saad 26:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:26 I don't know.

Gad Saad 26:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:27 Um, I would think that when you have a network that's run by advertising, you know, I mean, it's, yeah, that's what you do for income.

Gad Saad 26:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:36 You know? Um, I would imagine there's a lot of pressure by those people, those advertisers, to, uh, eliminate threats to their, their business.

Gad Saad 26:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:46 So if you got some wild dude on Fox News who's, uh, saying a bunch of shit about whatever it is, whether it's, uh, the, "Why are we in Ukraine?"

Gad Saad 26:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:57 Whether it's, uh, "Why are you mandating vaccines?" Whether it's, uh, what, uh, you know, the, this, having that kinda stuff on regular television, it's a big problem to anybody that's selling advertisement that's in those businesses.

Gad Saad 27:10 Apparently Budweiser didn't learn that lesson.

Joe Rogan 27:14 Well, see, the difference between Budweiser and pharmaceutical drug companies is that Budweiser's not prescribed.

Gad Saad 27:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:21 It's not recommended by your doctor.

Gad Saad 27:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:24 You don't get a (laughs) pres-

Gad Saad 27:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:25 You don't go to CVS to pick it up.

Gad Saad 27:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:27 It's, uh, that's different. And so this is, like, something that you can't really, um, you can't really criticize a, a brand and, like, say, "Uh, yeah, we don't, we don't buy Pfizer around these parts anymore." (laughs) Like, it doesn't, that doesn't work. It's not gonna work. You can do that with Budweiser, though. And you can do that with, like... That's probably gonna happen with some other stuff too. Like, people are upset at the country music channel.

Gad Saad 27:54 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:54 You know, because they, the Jason Aldean song-

Gad Saad 27:55 Yeah, a Jason Aldean song, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:56 Try That in a Small Town.

Gad Saad 27:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:59 The level of outrage, like now, I'm not saying that that's the greatest song the world's ever known, you know? But the level of outrage coming from people that are upset about that song is so strange when there are hundreds of rap songs out there-

Gad Saad 28:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:17 ... that are infinitely worse and also enjoyable. And, uh-

Gad Saad 28:21 Misogynistic-

Joe Rogan 28:23 Yeah. Uh-huh.

Gad Saad 28:23 ... glorifying violence-

Joe Rogan 28:24 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 28:24 ... the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 28:24 Oh, yeah.

Gad Saad 28:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:25 And no, no complaints at all.

Gad Saad 28:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 28:27 And we're not even talking about old stuff. There's new stuff too. There's, there's, there's hip hop. There's w- wild rock songs. There's a l- lot of wild shit. And to be focusing on that one, and it, it's the racial aspect of it was crazy, because, like, the real Antifa problems that were happening during the BLM, I think it was a lot of white people doing that.

Gad Saad 28:50 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:50 Wasn't it? It was a lot of, like-

Gad Saad 28:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:52 ... lost liberal whites who are very angry who decided to take up this movement and smash things. So, like, the racial aspect of it, there's nothing racial about the lyrics.

Gad Saad 29:03 Or how about the Tracey Ull- did you see the Tracey Ullman, uh, controversy?

Joe Rogan 29:07 No, I did not.

Gad Saad 29:07 So she, she wrote in the, I don't know if you remember, in, I think it was 1988, she had this, like, iconic song, Fast Car.

Joe Rogan 29:14 Yes.

Gad Saad 29:15 Uh-

Joe Rogan 29:15 Oh, right, right.

Gad Saad 29:16 Right?

Joe Rogan 29:16 Right, right.

Gad Saad 29:16 And then this, uh, I guess she's a country music singer.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Tracey Chapman.

Narrator 29:20 Chapman.

Gad Saad 29:20 Chapman. Did I say Ullman?

Joe Rogan 29:21 Yeah.

Narrator 29:21 Yeah.

Gad Saad 29:21 Oh, that's, she's the actress, right? She's a comedian, Tracey Ullman.

Narrator 29:23 Yes.

Gad Saad 29:23 Tracey Chapman.

Narrator 29:24 Chapman.

Gad Saad 29:24 Thank you.

Narrator 29:25 Yeah.

Gad Saad 29:25 And then this, this, uh, singer asked for her permission, I guess-

Joe Rogan 29:30 Yeah.

Gad Saad 29:30 ... to, to do-

Joe Rogan 29:31 Luke Combs.

Gad Saad 29:31 ... to do a cover and so on.

Joe Rogan 29:33 It's amazing.

Gad Saad 29:33 And, and then people came out that, you know, "The white guy is usurping this," blah.

Joe Rogan 29:37 Yeah. Well, but that's always gonna happen.

Gad Saad 29:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:40 You're always gonna have a certain amount of people to say that.

Gad Saad 29:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:42 It doesn't mean it's real. It's, uh, it also... And apparently she's happy that he's doing it.

Gad Saad 29:48 Well, no kidding. I mean-

Joe Rogan 29:48 So everybody's good. And it's a great song.

Gad Saad 29:50 It is.

Joe Rogan 29:50 I mean, it's really good to see. He didn't even change the gender. Like, when he sang it.

Gad Saad 29:54 Yeah, yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 29:55 You know?

Gad Saad 29:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:56 "I can b- come and check out girl." He says, "Checkout girl."

Gad Saad 29:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:59 Yeah.

Gad Saad 29:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what else is up? What's h- I think we were gonna talk about, uh, uh, what my impression of some of the prices in Austin.

Joe Rogan 30:08 Oh, yeah. You were telling me that, uh, an espresso was $8.

Gad Saad 30:11 I, so yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:12 (laughs)

Gad Saad 30:12 So yes, yes- yesterday, I went out with, actually I was at my, at that, at the hotel. And, uh, two friends came by to, one of whom I think has been on your show, Michael Malice.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Yeah, I love that dude.

Gad Saad 30:23 And, yeah, he's lovely. And the other, the other guy is a professor at UT Austin who's really, Richard Lowry, who's really fighting. He's very much of a academic honey badger fighting against all the woke stuff. And so we were just hanging out. Uh, one of, one of the guys ordered a Diet Coke, and two of us ordered, uh, two espressos. Uh, the bill came. It was, uh, with the tip, $28.

Joe Rogan 30:44 (laughs)

Gad Saad 30:46 And I'm thinking, "This is like Oprah money." Like, who, who can, who can, you know, afford these prices? You, you tell me. What's, what's going on in Austin? It's all-

Joe Rogan 30:56 I have no idea. I didn't go to that place. I don't know, but-

Gad Saad 30:58 But I mean, in general, the real estate, everything is completely doubled, tripled. It's, it's going... I mean, I understand that it's because it's a hot place.

Joe Rogan 31:05 Yeah, but espresso shouldn't be eight bucks, right? (laughs)

Gad Saad 31:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:07 Like what did (laughs) what did espresso cost?

Gad Saad 31:10 Well, in Montreal, it'll be...

Joe Rogan 31:12 ... four or five is normal. What's normal in Montreal?

Gad Saad 31:14 Mon- Montreal would be maybe for an espresso, so it's a short espresso, single espresso, at 3.50.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Which it's hard for people to believe, but when I was growing up, there was no Starbucks.

Gad Saad 31:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:24 People did not... They did not like coffee like they like coffee now. They are the greatest drug dealers the world's ever known.

Gad Saad 31:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:33 They (laughs) they're slinging that sweet caffeine all over this country, and that's what it is. It's the best drug-dealing operation the world's ever known, 'cause it's a super mild, productive drug that-

Gad Saad 31:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:44 ... everybody enjoys.

Gad Saad 31:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 31:46 Feels like a warm hug-

Gad Saad 31:47 Oh, oh, I f- I feel, I feel the-

Joe Rogan 31:48 ... as my friend Tate Fletcher likes to say.

Gad Saad 31:49 ... the, the requisite drug conversations coming up. Here we go on a 30-minute conversation of drugs. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:53 Yeah, but this is, like, a good drug, like caffeine as it-

Gad Saad 31:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:56 ... like, there's... Whatever bad effects you get from coffee, they're so minimal. There's even, like, links to, like, good health benefits from it.

Gad Saad 32:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:05 I think there's worry... People used to worry about dehydration, but I don't think they worry about that as much anymore when it comes to drinking coffee. They used to think that if you drank a lot of coffee, you would get dehydrated, but there's a certain amount of hydration you're actually getting from drinking coffee too. So it's, like, kinda complicated, 'cause it is kind of a diuretic, but it also-

Gad Saad 32:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:23 ... like, you're also drinking it.

Gad Saad 32:24 So that hit... Perfect segue into one of the chapters of the book. I talk about everything in moderation-

Joe Rogan 32:29 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 32:30 ... which, of course, Aristotle already talked about, the golden mean. You know, if a soldier is too cowardly, it's not good. If he's too reckless, he's going to die.

Joe Rogan 32:39 Right.

Gad Saad 32:39 And so like most things, the sweet spot is in the middle. And so in that chapter, I go through a bewildering number of phenomena, all of which adhere to that inverted U. Too little, not good. Too much is not good, and, and the ideal point is in the middle. Exercise intensity, inverted U. Alcohol consumption, inverted U.

Joe Rogan 32:59 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 32:59 Coffee consumption, inverted U. Fish consumption, inverted U. And so I thought that was a really cool chapter to cover, because it's arguably the most universal law that we can find. So many things adhere to that inverted U, and I think we had discussed this last time that I was on this show, the ancient Greeks were already aware of it.

Joe Rogan 33:19 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 33:19 I mean, A- A- Aristotle in his Nico, uh, Machian Ethics talks exact... I mean, he doesn't call it the inverted U. He calls it the golden mean. And so to our earlier conversation, the last time I was here and, and going through the research for this book, the amount of insights I f- found from Seneca, Epictetus, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius was just breathtaking. It was unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Yeah, I, um, I just got back from Greece.

Gad Saad 33:45 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 33:45 Yeah, I was in Greece for two weeks. And, uh, I saw the Parthenon, and we went to Ilissus, uh, went to Dalos, went to a bunch of different islands. It was really interesting, man.

Gad Saad 33:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:58 We were d- We, we checked out a bunch of ruins. And, uh, it's just so... It's so hard to even wrap your head around what was going on there 2,000-plus years ago.

Gad Saad 34:10 Yeah, indeed. I, I did five islands, so maybe we can compare notes. I did Corfu, Crete, Naxos, Santorini.

Joe Rogan 34:20 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 34:20 And the fifth one, I'm leaving to the end, I asked the captain, "Take us..." Uh, at the time, I was traveling with a buddy of mine after school. This is, like, 1990. I said, "Take us to an island that's completely void of tourists." And so he dropped us off on an island, volcanic island, called Folegandros. And we spent, I think, maybe two days there, not a single tourist, just hanging out with the locals. They didn't speak a word of French or English, and it was just magical.

Joe Rogan 34:44 Wow.

Gad Saad 34:45 What, where did you go? Which islands did you go to?

Joe Rogan 34:47 (sighs) We went to a bunch of them. I can't remember all the names. Mykonos.

Gad Saad 34:51 Oh, right, but that, that is-

Joe Rogan 34:53 Which is not an island.

Gad Saad 34:53 That's, that's tons of tourists, right? That was-

Joe Rogan 34:54 Yeah, there was a lot of people there.

Gad Saad 34:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:56 We went to, um... Oh my God. I'm not gonna remember. A bunch of weird ones.

Gad Saad 35:02 Yeah, okay. Cool.

Joe Rogan 35:02 But it was really, it was really fun.

Gad Saad 35:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:04 And it was relaxing, but the most mind-blowing thing was seeing the Parthenon-

Gad Saad 35:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:09 ... seeing U- uh, Ilissus and walking around there.

Gad Saad 35:13 Yeah, we just came back from Portugal. We did 16 days in Portugal, first time ever. Uh, and I-

Joe Rogan 35:19 I think it's Ilissus. I'm saying Ilissus. It's Ilissus, sorry.

Gad Saad 35:21 Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, uh, really enjoyed, uh, Portugal with the exception, apologies to all of my Portuguese listeners and fans, not a very attractive language. And-

Joe Rogan 35:32 You don't like their language?

Gad Saad 35:33 I don't like that. Italian-

Joe Rogan 35:34 But when you hear it coming out of Brazil, it sounds amazing.

Gad Saad 35:37 Brazilian Portuguese is nicer than Portuguese Portuguese.

Joe Rogan 35:40 Oh, no.

Gad Saad 35:41 Eh, I, I'm, I'm, I'm stealing here some... I think there was this comedian who said this, but who, who said something that, like, uh, Portuguese is akin to someone having a perpetual stroke in the way that, you know, ʝɐ̃wɔ̃, right? They- there's kind of a twisting of the mouth that appears unnatural.

Joe Rogan 35:59 Huh.

Gad Saad 35:59 Uh, and I can see that, because I found it, uh, it wasn't the most pleasant. So now I'm gonna get hate mail from Portuguese people.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Yeah, they're gonna be very mad at you-

Gad Saad 36:06 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 36:06 ... 'cause Brazilian Portuguese is beautiful.

Gad Saad 36:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:09 It's got a, it's got a flow.

Gad Saad 36:10 It's got a flow, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:11 It's a, like, there's like a-

Gad Saad 36:13 But I mean, it- it's a-

Joe Rogan 36:13 ... it's almost like they're dancing.

Gad Saad 36:14 Italian, you know, it's a universally loved language. French as spoken in France, now I'm going to upset the next group of people.

Joe Rogan 36:21 Oh, no. (laughs)

Gad Saad 36:22 Quebec French is an affront to human dignity.

Joe Rogan 36:26 What?

Gad Saad 36:26 Yes, sir. I'm, I said it.

Joe Rogan 36:28 H- wh- what?

Gad Saad 36:28 Yes. It's horrifying.

Joe Rogan 36:30 I can't believe what you're saying.

Gad Saad 36:31 And, and now listen to this. My wife is able to switch her French depending on whom she's speaking with. So if she's speaking with someone who speaks international French, she'll speak in her regular manner. Not Parisian French, but, like, an international French. I speak an international French 'cause we're from Lebanon. When she speaks to a Quebecer, she turns into a complete Quebecer, and oftentimes I say, "How did you just do that? That sounds so inauthentic." She goes, "Well, no, because if I speak in the regular French, then I- it'll come across as haughty." But that, to me, is so strange, because that would be like I speak with an Oxford accent with one person-

Joe Rogan 37:08 Right.

Gad Saad 37:08 ... and then I turn into the Southern drawl-

Joe Rogan 37:10 (laughs)

Gad Saad 37:11 ... with the other person depending on who... That doesn't sound... That, there's a falsity to that. So y- you, you tell me.

Joe Rogan 37:16 Yeah, there, there's a good argument, there's a good argu- argument that there's a falsity to that. Yeah. But there's also a good argument that-... like, there's, like, a cultural, agreed-upon way of communicating. You know?

Gad Saad 37:29 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:29 Like, if you started talking like, "Thee, for thou."

Gad Saad 37:32 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:32 Like, if you started talking like that today, people would go, "What are you doing, man?"

Gad Saad 37:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:35 "We don't talk like that anymore."

Gad Saad 37:37 D- do you think I have an accent in English?

Joe Rogan 37:39 You don't have an accent. You have, um, a very distinct way of talking.

Gad Saad 37:45 Okay. So you couldn't say, oh, you're American or Canadian. It's, you-

Joe Rogan 37:50 Well, you have thi- so there, there's that. Like, your, your words are very clear, but there's like, there's something going on.

Gad Saad 37:56 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 37:56 You know?

Gad Saad 37:57 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:57 There's, it's clear there's something going on there.

Gad Saad 37:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:00 But that's an, a fascinating thing about a person that's able to speak multiple languages. It's like you're, you're speaking English, but you're speaking English perfectly with like a little bit of a twist to it.

Gad Saad 38:10 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:11 Which is, I guess, an accent. So like, I guess the answer is yes.

Gad Saad 38:13 My, arguably my only regret as a parent so far, may it be the only one that I ever experience, has been that we haven't passed on our linguistic heritage, we meaning my wife and I-

Joe Rogan 38:26 Hmm.

Gad Saad 38:26 ... to our children. So I speak, you know, Arabic is my mother tongue, French, English, and Hebrew. My wife speaks Armenian. And so between the two of us, we've got five languages. And yet, our children only speak French and English. And the reason for that is because if I were to speak to them in Arabic or Hebrew, my mother, um, my wife would be locked out. And if she speaks to them in Armenian, I would be locked out. And so we ended up just agreeing on the two co- the two languages that we both speak. But now, both, both our children are telling us that they reg-... Because when they see me meeting someone who's Arabic and we d- we break out the beautiful Arabic, at least my son has been saying, you know, "Daddy, you should only speak to me in, in Arabic." But now it feels as if it's a vocabulary lesson, right?

Joe Rogan 39:12 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 39:13 Uh, so I'm telling him, "Here is how you say ka." He goes, "No, but just speak to me."

Joe Rogan 39:17 Right, right, right.

Gad Saad 39:18 But that's easy to do when you're, you know, one year old. When you're 11, 12, 13, it's, it feels false to start speaking to you in Arabic when you don't speak a word of Arabic, you know?

Joe Rogan 39:28 Yeah. But that's a great way for him to learn.

Gad Saad 39:30 Yeah, indeed.

Joe Rogan 39:31 Wouldn't it be?

Gad Saad 39:32 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 39:32 'Cause he'd have to keep up.

Gad Saad 39:33 He'd have to keep up.

Joe Rogan 39:34 Yeah. That's what they say, like if you really wanna learn a language, really wanna learn it-

Gad Saad 39:38 Just-

Joe Rogan 39:38 ... move to a place.

Gad Saad 39:39 Oh, absolutely. I mean, one of the things that I regret the most is that I haven't been able to return ever to Lebanon. Because if I were to go to, on a visiting professorship to, say, American University of Beirut for a year, they're going to come back flawless Arabic speakers.

Joe Rogan 39:52 Hmm.

Gad Saad 39:53 And, uh, with, and especially, I mean, now my daughter's 14, he's 11, so they're sort of entering that period where they're pretty much soon not going to be able to ever speak it like a native speaker.

Joe Rogan 40:04 Hmm.

Gad Saad 40:04 There's something magical that happens around puberty where if you learn a language after that period, you can never speak it without an accent.

Joe Rogan 40:13 Really?

Gad Saad 40:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:14 Wow.

Gad Saad 40:14 And, and, and it really is, and no one exactly knows what, what causes that mechanism. But, so for example, I learned English at 11. And tha- that's, that was the genesis for why I asked you do I have an accent. Because I would expect that the time at which I learned it, I snuck in just before that period.

Joe Rogan 40:33 Hmm.

Gad Saad 40:33 Had I learned it when I was 13, 14, 15, I could have spoken it, you know, perfectly, but you would have detected a much stronger accent.

Joe Rogan 40:41 That's interesting.

Gad Saad 40:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:43 That's a strange thing about human development and, and just the sounds that we all agree upon that equal the words.

Gad Saad 40:50 Yeah. Well, there, there are tons of sounds in Arabic. Let's see if you can do them. You ready?

Joe Rogan 40:54 Okay. All right.

Gad Saad 40:54 First time ever on, on the Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 40:56 Give me a try.

Gad Saad 40:57 Okay, so for example, my last name, everybody, all Americans will say Saad. You just extend the A.

Joe Rogan 41:03 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 41:03 But the proper way to say it, it's Gad Saad.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Saad.

Gad Saad 41:08 Right. It's an 3in.

Joe Rogan 41:09 Like Arnold, like if Arnold was gonna say it. Saaz.

Gad Saad 41:12 Sort of like, exactly.

Joe Rogan 41:13 Aah.

Gad Saad 41:13 Or for example, hih. Can you say hih?

Joe Rogan 41:16 Hih.

Gad Saad 41:17 Not hih. There's hih, hih, and hih. They're coming from different parts from my throat.

Joe Rogan 41:22 What?

Gad Saad 41:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:24 (laughs) Those are all the same.

Gad Saad 41:25 So if I say, if I say, uh, the Arabic people are going to laugh at this.

Joe Rogan 41:28 Okay.

Gad Saad 41:29 Inta khara, that means you're shit. Okay?

Joe Rogan 41:31 Okay.

Gad Saad 41:31 It's a hih.

Joe Rogan 41:33 Inta khara.

Gad Saad 41:33 Okay, okay. Inta hamar, that means you're, you're an ass. Okay? You're an idiot.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Say it again.

Gad Saad 41:39 Inta, the second one?

Joe Rogan 41:40 Yeah, the second one.

Gad Saad 41:41 Inta hamar.

Joe Rogan 41:42 Inta hamar.

Gad Saad 41:43 But see, you're saying hih. It's hih.

Joe Rogan 41:48 Okay. (laughs)

Gad Saad 41:50 (laughs) First time ever, are we breaking new ground?

Joe Rogan 41:52 Oh yeah, for sure. I've never even tried to say these words.

Gad Saad 41:54 Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, you know, it's, Arabic, ye- ear- earlier I, I, I, I said some, uh, derogatory things about Portuguese and about French-Canadians. So let me be fair and say not Arabic, Hebrew, which is also, you know, one of m- from my heritage, is a violently ugly language.

Joe Rogan 42:14 (laughs)

Gad Saad 42:15 (laughs) On the other hand, Arabic as spoken by the Lebanese, and I'm not saying this 'cause I'm Lebanese. 'Cause you know Arabic comes in many different dialects, right? There is Iraqi Arabic, there is North African Arabic, there is Egyptian Arabic. The Lebanese Arabic is really the, the Italian of Arabic dialects. Get ready for some comments now coming your way.

Joe Rogan 42:36 Isn't it weird how when, uh, they have horror movies, when- whenever someone's like calling a demon, they always have to do it in an old language?

Gad Saad 42:43 Th- meaning? Like what-

Joe Rogan 42:45 It's always in Latin or something.

Gad Saad 42:46 Oh, right. Okay.

Joe Rogan 42:47 Right? They're, they're always reading from some book they're not supposed to be reading from.

Gad Saad 42:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:50 What does it say? (Latin)

Gad Saad 42:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:53 And they're like, "Rrrr." And then the demons come.

Gad Saad 42:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:56 Like you have to say the magic old words that people don't understand.

Gad Saad 43:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:00 There's probably some weird... You're a psychologist.

Gad Saad 43:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:03 You understand that shit.

Gad Saad 43:04 That's interesting.

Joe Rogan 43:04 What's going on there?

Gad Saad 43:05 Yeah, woof, you're putting me on the li- well I just th-

Joe Rogan 43:07 'Cause it's always, right, it's always like a dead language.

Gad Saad 43:10 Well, I think it's because-

Joe Rogan 43:11 Or an old language.

Gad Saad 43:11 ... of that. There, so because it's an extinct language, it somehow ca-

Joe Rogan 43:15 Calling demons.

Gad Saad 43:16 It's calling demons that exist in another world. I, I think it's as simple as that.

Joe Rogan 43:20 What a dumb concept that the way to call demons is like by saying a word, like making a noise with your mouth. It's the perfect frequency.

Gad Saad 43:27 Or say Candyman in front of the-

Joe Rogan 43:29 Right. (laughs)

Gad Saad 43:29 ... in front of the mirror three times.Scariest movie of all time, since we were talking earlier about our favorite movie, Halloween, first one, Jamie Lee Curtis.

Joe Rogan 43:40 Is it really?

Gad Saad 43:40 Till- till today, I would probably have a heart... See, what scares me about horror movies is not the supernatural stuff. It's the being startled.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Mm.

Gad Saad 43:49 You see what I mean?

Joe Rogan 43:50 Yeah.

Gad Saad 43:50 Where he- he comes, a- and you- you... Right? So oftentimes when I'm watching a horror movie, I will block my ears because it's that sudden sound that s- really scares me.

Joe Rogan 44:00 I think if I had to pick a all-time scariest movie, I think I would say the first Alien.

Gad Saad 44:08 Love that movie.

Joe Rogan 44:09 The first Alien movie, that is a scary movie.

Gad Saad 44:12 That is scary.

Joe Rogan 44:13 It's very different than all the other Alien movies. 'Cause in all the other Alien movies, the aliens are kinda out in the open and- and you shoot a bunch of them.

Gad Saad 44:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:20 They're coming from all over the place. It's m- way unrealistic, by the way.

Gad Saad 44:23 Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:24 Way... Uh, we can get into that.

Gad Saad 44:25 Ha- have you seen the documentary of the making of Alien?

Joe Rogan 44:28 I have, yeah.

Gad Saad 44:29 It's- isn't that amazing?

Joe Rogan 44:30 Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. That, uh, HR... How do you say his name? Giger?

Gad Saad 44:34 I- I think that- that sounds right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:34 HR Giger, the- the- the artist that designed it?

Gad Saad 44:37 The artist, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:37 Oh my God.

Gad Saad 44:38 It's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 44:38 What a unique vision.

Gad Saad 44:39 (exhales) Unreal.

Joe Rogan 44:41 Like, the- the strange... His art was so strange.

Gad Saad 44:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:44 And that creature that he created was fucking amazing.

Gad Saad 44:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:47 It was literally, like, the ultimate, terrifying alien predator.

Gad Saad 44:52 And a f- a feminist empowerment, 'cause the alien is a female.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Oh, the big one, the mother, remember?

Gad Saad 44:58 The mother is the girl, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:00 In the second one? But this movie's so fucking good.

Gad Saad 45:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:02 It's so good and it's so scary. It's a great sci-fi movie, but it's also fucking scary.

Gad Saad 45:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:09 Like- like you're talking about being startled.

Gad Saad 45:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:11 Like, and that- that alien in this movie is elusive and intelligent and traps people.

Gad Saad 45:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:19 And- and- and you- you get to see it in brief glances.

Gad Saad 45:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:23 And then in the new movies after that, like, the- like, Aliens, it's kind of a different things going on.

Gad Saad 45:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:29 'Cause you can kill them easy.

Gad Saad 45:30 Yeah, you can.

Joe Rogan 45:30 Now you just blasting a bunch of them.

Gad Saad 45:32 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:32 And then the mother is at you, but you got a robot body-

Gad Saad 45:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:35 ... so you're all good. Like, it's just so much ridiculousness that it just hurts my feelings.

Gad Saad 45:38 Have you ever... (laughs) Have you ever seen 1980 Brian De Palma's Dressed to Kill, which is kind of a precursor to all the transgender stuff that we hear today. Have you seen that movie?

Joe Rogan 45:49 No.

Gad Saad 45:49 Oh, it's fantastic. Michael Caine, Angie Dickinson. Look, you- you're amazing, Jamie.

Joe Rogan 45:57 Jamie's a wizard.

Gad Saad 45:57 It- it comes out. I mean, you're a wizard. You have to see this movie, Joe.

Joe Rogan 46:01 Is she supposedly transgender in this movie?

Gad Saad 46:03 No. So what happens is sh- uh, can I give away some stuff, or...

Joe Rogan 46:06 Uh, yeah, it's a spoiler alert.

Gad Saad 46:07 Oh, it's a spoiler alert.

Joe Rogan 46:07 It's a movie from the '20s.

Gad Saad 46:08 Okay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:08 43 years old. You got it.

Gad Saad 46:11 (laughs) Well, but if somebody wants to see it. So she is sexually frustrated with her- in her marriage, so she goes to see a psychiatrist, played by Michael Caine, who, as she's telling him her sto- her sexual stories, is becoming aroused. But he turns out to be a guy who wants to become a transsexual. Him, the psychiatrist.

Joe Rogan 46:32 (laughs)

Gad Saad 46:32 And so he doesn't like the idea of being aroused as a male, because it is then, you know, attacking his desire to- to make the transition into being a female. And so Dressed to Kill, the movie, is him dressing up as a... There you go. That's Michael Caine.

Joe Rogan 46:47 Oh my God.

Gad Saad 46:48 It's phenomenal. I saw it as a 15-year-old. I think that was my first exposure to, you know, transsexual operations and so on.

Joe Rogan 46:55 Oh my God.

Gad Saad 46:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:58 Oh, wow.

Gad Saad 46:59 Yeah, yeah. This is- this is an amazing movie. I highly, highly recommend it.

Joe Rogan 47:02 1980?

Gad Saad 47:03 1980. 15 years old.

Joe Rogan 47:05 Wow.

Gad Saad 47:06 This was the year, by the way, that year when my... Not... This is a weird segue, but when my parents were freed in Lebanon f- after having been kidnapped by Fatah in 1980.

Joe Rogan 47:20 Wow.

Gad Saad 47:21 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I remember I was 15 years old. Another thing that happened to me when I was 15 years old, I broke my nose in soccer and then had to have it reset by the- the surgeon. And so for about a week, I wore a face cast.

Joe Rogan 47:35 Did you get it fixed where you can breathe out of both nostrils?

Gad Saad 47:38 Uh, I think I can, yeah. Uh, but yeah. It was, uh, bad.

Joe Rogan 47:41 That is so important. If anybody out here is listening and you have a deviated septum, get that fixed, if you can, if you're- it's safe to do. Because i- it's like the- the- the benefits of being able to breathe out of your nose.

Gad Saad 47:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:56 Uh! Uh!

Gad Saad 47:57 Speaking of athletics, I remember many years ago I had come on this show where I was singing the glory of, yeah, Lionel Messi. And you were like, "Who?"

Joe Rogan 48:06 Right.

Gad Saad 48:06 "Who's Lionel Messi?" And then you mentioned some MMA fighter that I'd never heard of, and I remember your exact response. You s- you looked at me and said, "How dare you, sir?"

Joe Rogan 48:15 (laughs)

Gad Saad 48:16 Uh, let me flip it back to you.

Joe Rogan 48:17 Okay.

Gad Saad 48:17 How dare you? So are you now? You are a Messi fan finally? You've come around to the- to the truth?

Joe Rogan 48:22 Well, he's a amazing soccer player. I mean...

Gad Saad 48:25 Oh, that goal. Wow.

Joe Rogan 48:28 There's no denying.

Gad Saad 48:29 Okay, well let me... Le- since I'm on the number one show in the world-

Joe Rogan 48:32 He's a wizard. Didn't they offer him like some fucking insane amount of money-

Narrator 48:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 48:36 ... and he just said no?

Gad Saad 48:37 S- Saudi Arabia.

Joe Rogan 48:38 How much did they offer him?

Narrator 48:38 A different guy just got offered a billion dollars for one year.

Gad Saad 48:41 Yeah, Mbappe.

Joe Rogan 48:41 What?

Narrator 48:42 Yeah.

Gad Saad 48:42 Mbappe. Mbappe, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:43 What? A billion for a year?

Narrator 48:45 Well, 330 of that is so that he can transfer to the team, and then 771 is for his services...

Gad Saad 48:51 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 48:51 ... to play soccer for a year.

Joe Rogan 48:52 Jesus!

Gad Saad 48:52 They're buying everybody, the Saudis.

Narrator 48:54 And LeBron...

Joe Rogan 48:55 Jesus.

Narrator 48:56 LeBron said if they offered him, he'd fucking take off and play for them but...

Joe Rogan 48:58 They have so much money.

Gad Saad 49:00 But let me tell you something.

Joe Rogan 49:00 LeBron will become Saudi Arabian king.

Narrator 49:03 (laughs)

Gad Saad 49:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:03 He'll be- he'll be, he'll be the king of basketball over there.

Narrator 49:06 That's right. Uh...

Joe Rogan 49:06 What?

Narrator 49:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:08 That is so crazy.

Narrator 49:09 Yeah. Yup, yup.

Gad Saad 49:10 The- December 18th, 2022 World Cup Final. You talk about the- the power, the emotional power of sports, right? My family and I were sitting and watching the World Cup Final. And we had... Our- our... The e- the extent to which we were emotionally vested in Messi winning the World Cup can only be a- can only demonstrate the beauty of sports, right?

Joe Rogan 49:32 Yeah.

Gad Saad 49:32 Because here's a guy that-... right? We've never met him.

Joe Rogan 49:36 Right.

Gad Saad 49:36 We, he, we're not Argentinean, right?

Joe Rogan 49:38 Right.

Gad Saad 49:39 He doesn't know that we're alive.

Joe Rogan 49:41 Right, right, right.

Gad Saad 49:41 And yet it's life and death for us that he should ... I mean, it was so harrowing. I don't know if you watched the game, that at one point, my son, who's 11 years old, said, "I, I can't watch this anymore. I'm going to have a heart attack." Uh, that's the p- the power of sports, that it can pull us in and it can make us truly tribe. And on my case, before you, before you in- uh, interject, it was kind of driven ... My desire for him to win was driven by a really a purity strand. It was that it seemed cosmically unjust for the greatest soccer player of all time to not have won the World Cup.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Mm.

Gad Saad 50:16 So when he won it, to me, it seemed like the world is right. Beauty has won.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Ah, I get it.

Gad Saad 50:22 Look at this guy.

Joe Rogan 50:22 That's awesome.

Gad Saad 50:23 And I sh- I should add, what a guy, right? Humble, sweet, family man.

Joe Rogan 50:31 What's fascinating to me is as happy as they are, the people on the other team that were rooting for them, they're devastated right now.

Gad Saad 50:37 Yeah. They're-

Joe Rogan 50:38 That's, that's the weird thing about sports.

Gad Saad 50:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:41 You can get so attached to what's happening that a loss is like really a loss.

Gad Saad 50:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:47 Can't believe we fucking lost to Kansas City.

Gad Saad 50:49 Well, (laughs) well, in, in, in my first book ever, 2007, The Evolutionary Basics of Consumption, I talk about studies, uh, not my studies, um, I was citing other works, that looked at what happens to the testosterone levels of fans as a function of whether their team wins or loses. Of course-

Joe Rogan 51:06 How do you test that? (laughs)

Gad Saad 51:08 Well, (laughs) well, it's been tested. Uh, you just take salivary assays of fans as their team is winning or losing.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Oh, you can get-

Gad Saad 51:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:14 ... the testosterone levels from that?

Gad Saad 51:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:16 That's interesting.

Gad Saad 51:17 Yeah, and so b-

Joe Rogan 51:18 Wow.

Gad Saad 51:18 Now, what, it's not surprising, as you would know as a-

Joe Rogan 51:21 Right.

Gad Saad 51:21 ... as a fighter, that if y- you and I fight and you defeat me, your testosterone level goes up, my testosterone level goes down.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Like a video game.

Gad Saad 51:29 Like a video game. Uh, except what's happening here is that there is a vicarious endocrinological response. The fans are having the same increases in their testosterone levels or decreases as a function of their team winning or not.

Joe Rogan 51:44 Ah.

Gad Saad 51:44 That's quite extra- and that shows you why it, we become so bonded to our favorite players and so on. We are really going through this battle with them.

Joe Rogan 51:52 Yeah, that's ... It's really the case with fighters. When people have a fighter that they're really a giant fan of and that person gets l- beaten in a devastating manner-

Gad Saad 52:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:02 ... oh, it's so heartbreaking.

Gad Saad 52:04 There's even studies, by the way, that have looked at what happens to sexual behavior of fans after their team wins or loses. So if, if let's say you, if your wife is upset that you're not, you haven't been producing in the bedroom, she should pray that the husband's favorite team wins. Because if he wins, he has an inc- increase in testosterone level-

Joe Rogan 52:30 Mm.

Gad Saad 52:30 ... increases their libidinal drive.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Mm.

Gad Saad 52:32 And so we're animals.

Joe Rogan 52:35 It's just, uh, it's just attaching so much of your own emotions to something completely out of your control and just rooting on it.

Gad Saad 52:43 Exa- but do you, do you-

Joe Rogan 52:44 It's kind of nuts.

Gad Saad 52:45 ... do you have a, a fan in any sport where y- you've ever been that vested in?

Joe Rogan 52:50 Well, I, it, there was one time, I remember, when I was a kid, um, I was a giant fan of Donald Curry. Donald Curry was the welterweight boxing champion at the time, and he, uh, had a rivalry with this other guy, Milton McCrory. And, uh, Donald Curry knocked him out, he became like my favorite boxer. And then Donald Curry, he got beat by this guy, Lloyd Hunnigan. It was a devastating loss, like people couldn't believe Lloyd Hunnigan beat Donald Curry. And it was like, Donald Curry might be on the down slide, but I was still like a giant fan of his. And then Donald Curry fought Mike McCallum, and Mike McCallum hit him with a left hook to the body and a left hook to the chin, and put him out, like out cold, and I couldn't believe it. And I, I ran-

Gad Saad 53:35 There we go.

Joe Rogan 53:35 ... here it is right here, I ran out of the house-

Narrator 53:39 And we've been very good at this-

Joe Rogan 53:39 ... watch this. Boom.

Narrator 53:41 ... hand by McCallum.

Gad Saad 53:42 So the, the-

Joe Rogan 53:43 Out cold.

Gad Saad 53:43 ... the one with the black shorts is your guy, right?

Joe Rogan 53:46 The guy down is my guy.

Gad Saad 53:47 Yeah, okay.

Narrator 53:48 He's down. He's gone. Looks like he's getting up.

Joe Rogan 53:52 So I, I'm, I misremembered it, it wasn't left hook to the body, it was like he goes with a right hand, and then a left hook behind it.

Narrator 53:57 He gets hit in the jaw, but he's still going.

Joe Rogan 53:59 But he just, he KO'd, KO'd Donald Curry, and I-

Gad Saad 54:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:03 ... couldn't believe it. And so I put on my running shoes. I couldn't stay home. I c- I just couldn't-

Gad Saad 54:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:07 ... deal with it. I couldn't deal with it.

Gad Saad 54:09 Wow.

Joe Rogan 54:09 And I went running in the snow. And I ran right ... No, it wasn't in the snow. I'm thinking of another story. It's another time when someone lost that I went running in the snow. I don't think it was in the snow. I think it was warm. I don't, would've ... I don't remember, but I remember I went running. And as I'm running and I'm running down the road, I'm thinking to myself, "I am never gonna be this invested in someone else winning or losing ever again."

Gad Saad 54:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:31 I was so devastated that he lost. I couldn't believe it.

Gad Saad 54:34 What, what was the bond? What, what, why, why did-

Joe Rogan 54:36 His technique.

Gad Saad 54:37 Okay.

Joe Rogan 54:37 His technique was perfect. He was crisp, like he was coiled. They called him, uh, h- his, his ... What was his nickname? Something cobra.

Gad Saad 54:48 Here comes Jamie.

Joe Rogan 54:52 I forget what his nickname was, but his, his technique was so crisp.

Narrator 54:57 Lone Star Cobra.

Joe Rogan 54:58 Lone Star Cobra.

Gad Saad 54:59 There you go.

Joe Rogan 54:59 He was out of Fort Worth.

Narrator 55:01 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:01 And his technique was so sharp. I just really, I always admired guys who t- were able to find like the shortest path to k- Yeah.

Gad Saad 55:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:11 ... connecting with a shot-

Gad Saad 55:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:12 ... where it's just like the technique is so dialed in.

Gad Saad 55:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:16 Y- you know, there's guys that like Gervonta Davis is like that, their technique is so dialed in, that when you watch them uncork, it's like, "Oh my god," the efficiency of it. The way-

Gad Saad 55:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:25 And so I was just a giant fan of the guy. I just loved as a person who like really enjoyed technique, I, I-

Gad Saad 55:32 I-

Joe Rogan 55:32 ... like watching someone who's exceptional at it.

Gad Saad 55:34 I recently put, I, I, uh, maybe a few months ago, I put out a, a sort of a hypothetical what if scenario, where I-... I, I think this was on Twitter, where I asked, you know, people who follow me, would I be able to step on an NFL field and, under any circumstance, simply get a single yard as a running back, right? So, in other words-

Joe Rogan 55:59 Right.

Gad Saad 56:00 Right. So, now, for example, if I go into a boxing ring with someone, the only way I'm going to survive is if I keep running around long enough, 'cause the, the singular time that they hit me, I'm unlikely to be able to withstand that.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Right.

Gad Saad 56:14 So, that's, I'm gone, right? If I play basketball, I think I have enough skills that I can receive the ball and pass it off to someone, right? And so then I started thinking, "What about other sports? Could the average person who doesn't play that sport survive long enough to do something?" I'm obviously not going to get 100 yards, but a single yard, what are your thoughts?

Narrator 56:34 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 56:35 I, I thought maybe I was being presumptuous, maybe now I'm, I'm an old guy, but I thought that it could be possible for the front line to make enough of a hole for me to run through for one yard and I would just dro-... I'd just need to get a single yard.

Joe Rogan 56:47 Yeah, that's possible.

Gad Saad 56:48 And, but m-... A lot of people thought there is no chance that that would happen because they would catch you in the, in the back field, they would tackle you, and then you would die.

Narrator 56:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:57 Well, they probably could do that, too. That could happen as well. But if the defense is so strong that they can just create a small enough opening for you to go one yard, I think that's reasonable.

Gad Saad 57:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:07 You, it would suck for you, though, dude.

Gad Saad 57:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:09 They're gonna pile on top of you. You're never gonna be the same again.

Gad Saad 57:12 And especially since I've lost so much weight. At least before I looked like a linebacker, a fat linebacker.

Narrator 57:17 You wanna see that?

Joe Rogan 57:17 Yeah, that was...

Narrator 57:18 You wanna see that?

Joe Rogan 57:18 You don't want that happening to you.

Gad Saad 57:19 What was that?

Joe Rogan 57:20 What was that just happened there?

Narrator 57:21 Play fast. Watch, watch, watch again.

Joe Rogan 57:22 Watch this guy.

Narrator 57:22 This is the running back trying to get the ball to get one yard.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Watch this.

Narrator 57:27 No.

Gad Saad 57:27 Bam.

Joe Rogan 57:27 Boom.

Narrator 57:28 His helmet's off and he's hurt.

Gad Saad 57:30 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 57:31 Oh, my God. He got attacked old.

Narrator 57:32 And that's one of five guys that are gonna try to stop you from doing that.

Joe Rogan 57:34 Attack old.

Gad Saad 57:35 (laughs)

Narrator 57:35 These guys are so powerful.

Joe Rogan 57:37 So...

Gad Saad 57:37 So, so Jamie is in the camp of, "I'm not getting a single yard."

Narrator 57:40 There's a lot of-

Joe Rogan 57:40 Well, but-

Narrator 57:41 There's a lot of other variables, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:42 But it is possible that the defense could have prevented that if the defense is extraordinary-

Narrator 57:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:48 ... and the guys are on point, and there's, there's, you know. Games, things happen, right? People are trying to control things and people are charging forward. It's possible that there's an opening just big enough for anyone to get three yards.

Gad Saad 58:02 Right. J-...

Joe Rogan 58:04 Or, or one yard rather, three feet.

Gad Saad 58:05 Di-... Do you think you could step on a soccer field and look anything short of a complete moron?

Joe Rogan 58:11 No. No. Impossible.

Gad Saad 58:13 No. Now, I actually-

Joe Rogan 58:13 No.

Gad Saad 58:13 ... saw you recently, and I was really delighted to hear that, where you were singing the praises of how fit soccer players are.

Joe Rogan 58:19 Oh, my God. We went to see the, the games here in Austin, and when you watch professionals... First of all, here's one reason why soccer is problematic for television. They don't get breaks.

Gad Saad 58:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:30 So, there's no breaks like-

Narrator 58:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:31 ... you know, "We'll be right back with another word from Nabisco." (laughs) You know, there's none of that.

Narrator 58:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:36 So, if you have commercials, like, you have to interrupt the play of the game.

Narrator 58:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:40 And then people have to catch up, and then it's not... What? Is it not live now, or are you gonna, like, have half of a commercial-

Narrator 58:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:45 ... and half of the game? Like, what are you gonna do?

Gad Saad 58:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:48 How are you gonna do that? 'Cause they don't stop.

Gad Saad 58:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:49 They just keep going. And you have to be insanely fit. Those guys look like thoroughbreds. Like, their legs-

Gad Saad 58:56 I know.

Joe Rogan 58:56 ... were just fucking shredded.

Gad Saad 58:58 So, there was a study a few years ago, I can't cite what it was, but that looked at who were the fittest athletes. Number one was soccer.

Joe Rogan 59:05 It has to be.

Gad Saad 59:05 Do you know what number two was?

Joe Rogan 59:07 No.

Gad Saad 59:07 Squash players.

Joe Rogan 59:09 Why?

Gad Saad 59:10 I, I'm guessing because there are a lot of those very, very quick accelerations that you have to engage in to be able to get... The, the ball is very dead, right?

Joe Rogan 59:19 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 59:19 And so you really have to have this incredible quickness to be able... So, I, I, I-

Joe Rogan 59:24 What a weird thing for an elite athlete to choose.

Gad Saad 59:27 Uh, Jamie, can we check the rankings of the-

Joe Rogan 59:30 What? I don't even really think I could describe squash.

Gad Saad 59:32 Yeah. You know, I tried to play it. I got very claustrophobic.

Joe Rogan 59:35 Really?

Gad Saad 59:35 No, I'm, I'm being serious 'cause-

Joe Rogan 59:37 Let me see what it looks like.

Narrator 59:38 Squash, okay.

Joe Rogan 59:39 Show me a squash game.

Narrator 59:40 It's like a in... It's like a racquetball, right?

Gad Saad 59:43 No, but with a s-... with a m- ball that's more dead. Racquetball, the ball has a lot more give.

Narrator 59:49 Um...

Gad Saad 59:49 It bounces more.

Narrator 59:51 I was just trying to look. I found other sports that sound like they would be more, but I didn't find it in a scientific study.

Gad Saad 59:56 My, my wife has been trying to get me into pickleball. What are th-... what are our thoughts about that?

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 (laughs)

Gad Saad 1:00:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 Uh, I hear people like it.

Gad Saad 1:00:04 Have I, have I just lost, uh, a few testosterone points?

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 No, but people... No. Come on, man. People like pickleball. Um...

Gad Saad 1:00:10 Well, apparently there's a whole craze of pickleball now because it's not quite as difficult as tennis. You don't have to cover as much ground. It's still a racket game.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 It looks like a lot of damage to the knees, son.

Gad Saad 1:00:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 That's what I'm looking at right there.

Gad Saad 1:00:22 In terms of squash, we're talking?

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 You're running around.

Gad Saad 1:00:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 A lot of fucking explosive movements. For old guys like us?

Gad Saad 1:00:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 Best stick to yoga. (laughs)

Narrator 1:00:32 (laughs) Yeah, pickleball you can play with a beer in your hand, so you, you'd be all right.

Gad Saad 1:00:34 Actually, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:34 Yeah. Pickleball, pickleball's the way to go, son.

Gad Saad 1:00:37 By, by the way, uh, and I'm not gonna s-... call it ping pong. Table tennis.

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 Oh, my God. Insane.

Gad Saad 1:00:43 I, I used-

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 I watched a lot of it.

Gad Saad 1:00:44 When I was, when I was a graduate student, uh, there was a, uh, a fellow student who... We were roughly the same level, so we could have these wrong... long rallies.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Yeah.

Gad Saad 1:00:52 We'd play for two, three hours. We'd be drenched.

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Oh, it's very, very, very athletic. It's also amazing to watch.

Gad Saad 1:00:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Like, their reads-

Gad Saad 1:01:00 Yeah. It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 ... like, knowing where the ball's coming and to be able to get to the side of the table, and they'll whack it over there, and then they step sideways-

Gad Saad 1:01:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 ... and dudes are hitting 'em behind their backs.

Gad Saad 1:01:07 Yeah, it's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Like, it's wild. It's wild.

Gad Saad 1:01:10 It's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 Those exchanges are so fast.

Gad Saad 1:01:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 It's inc-... And you're just... this little ball, just tracking this little ball, whacking it with your thing.

Gad Saad 1:01:18 Uh, now, I just... Now that you said it, that you went to the soccer match here, that's because Austin has a team, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Oh, yeah, they have a... It's the only real professional team in town.

Gad Saad 1:01:27 So, are you willing, on your show, to commit to inviting Dr. Gad Saad to a game when Inter Miami comes over? Because Gad should see-

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 Well, Gad, I s-

Gad Saad 1:01:36 ... Lionel Messi in p-... in person?

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 I would be p-... happy to do that if I am going to be here while that is happening. So, I have a lot of commitments, you know-

Gad Saad 1:01:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 ... I don't necessarily know that I'll ... I don't know when that is.

Gad Saad 1:01:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 You know?

Gad Saad 1:01:50 But would, would you wanna go?

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 But if, but if ... Yes. Yes, yes, yes. If I was free, I 100% wanna go with you.

Gad Saad 1:01:55 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 I really enjoyed it.

Gad Saad 1:01:56 I see.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Gad Saad 1:01:58 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 You know?

Gad Saad 1:01:59 You just made my day. You made me happy speaking of-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Matthew McConaughey, who's the coolest.

Gad Saad 1:02:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 S- such a good guy.

Gad Saad 1:02:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 He's one of the owners too, so, so he's there.

Gad Saad 1:02:06 Of Austin?

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 Yeah.

Gad Saad 1:02:07 Oh, is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I don't ... I- I'm not mis-saying that, right?

Narrator 1:02:11 I don't think so, but yeah, they just actually played here be- right before Messi joined the team. (whistles)

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 I don't wanna, like, misstate his position.

Narrator 1:02:17 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 He, he's something ... I think he's one of the owners. I don't pay ... I unfortunately don't pay attention to that. But I do pay attention to him. He's a super cool guy.

Narrator 1:02:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 And he, you know, was with us, explaining it to us. Like, he ha- he loves it. He fucking loves it.

Gad Saad 1:02:31 You know who else is surprisingly into soccer? Do you know the Canadian actor Ryan Reynolds?

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 Oh, no shit.

Gad Saad 1:02:38 Have you heard?

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 Is it really?

Gad Saad 1:02:39 He is the part owner-

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 Yeah, there he is. He's one of the-

Gad Saad 1:02:41 ... of Wrexham.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 He's co-owner, okay.

Gad Saad 1:02:42 Okay. Can you-

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 I knew it, I knew he was.

Gad Saad 1:02:44 Jamie-

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 I just wanted to be sure.

Gad Saad 1:02:45 Let's do Ryan.

Narrator 1:02:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was ... I could-

Gad Saad 1:02:47 Wrexham.

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 Mm.

Gad Saad 1:02:48 W-R-E-X-

Narrator 1:02:50 Yeah, Ryan Reynolds and, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 Yeah, he ... They purchased-

Narrator 1:02:53 ... Rob McElhenney.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 ... a team, right?

Narrator 1:02:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 What a wild baller move. "I'm gonna purchase a sports team."

Gad Saad 1:02:57 Really?

Narrator 1:02:57 And they got good.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 They got, they got good after-

Gad Saad 1:03:00 Yeah.

Narrator 1:03:00 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 After they purchased 'em?

Gad Saad 1:03:01 Speaking of-

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 It's like the magic touch.

Gad Saad 1:03:02 Speaking of Blake Lively, I actually have her in the current book that came out today as a, uh, manifestation of a truly beautiful woman. Do we, do we agree on that?

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 Oh, she's gorgeous. Yeah.

Gad Saad 1:03:13 She's phenomenal.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 Yeah, truly beautiful.

Gad Saad 1:03:15 And, and, and exudes-

Joe Rogan 1:03:15 That's like a duh. (laughs)

Gad Saad 1:03:17 Yeah. Well, it depends if you're like that type.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 There's certain people ... Ah. There's, there's like a level of beauty, beauty, and then everything else is just different versions of that.

Gad Saad 1:03:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 That's what I think.

Gad Saad 1:03:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 I think it'd be a bit too picky, first of all. And I also think-

Gad Saad 1:03:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 ... (laughs) that there's like a level of beauty that's like you hit a level of, like, beauty and it's like everything else is just different.

Gad Saad 1:03:37 So, who, for, on a, on a man, who would be a guy, uh, that you would think is kinda the epitome of gorgeous?

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 Jason Momoa.

Narrator 1:03:44 Mm-hmm.

Gad Saad 1:03:45 Jason Momoa?

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 He's perfect.

Gad Saad 1:03:46 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 He's perfect. He's beautiful, he's tall.

Gad Saad 1:03:48 Big, tall, big.

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 He's from an a- an island.

Gad Saad 1:03:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 He's got tan skin. He's look ... Is always smiling.

Gad Saad 1:03:53 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 He's like a man's man.

Narrator 1:03:55 This is not the scientific study, but I was just trying to find where soccer lists on this ranking. This is the most-

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 What?

Narrator 1:04:00 It's overall fitness rating, but this is based off of physical demands. It has soc- soccer-

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 One, number one is water polo.

Narrator 1:04:06 ... 25.

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 What? 26.

Narrator 1:04:08 Oh.

Gad Saad 1:04:08 Oh, come on.

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 Mm. You know, you never wrestled, did you?

Narrator 1:04:12 That's, yeah, the other thing I had had wrestling as number one.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Boxing? Okay, first of all, errr. Let me hit the brakes. Um, martial arts being number five and then boxing being number six, that is way too general. You can't say martial arts, 'cause martial arts is jujitsu and it's also like fucking karate at the mall. And then-

Gad Saad 1:04:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 ... if you go down, go, go down, I don't ... I can't speak to rugby league, but, you know, I talked to guys like Volkanovski who used to play. It's fucking hardcore shit. That's all believable. But why is wrestling ... Keep going down.

Narrator 1:04:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 Keep going down. Why is wrestling way down below basketball? Sh-

Gad Saad 1:04:47 Oh, there's squash.

Narrator 1:04:48 Oh, they're tied actually, but-

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Sh- sh- whatever it is. Shut the fuck up.

Narrator 1:04:51 (laughs)

Gad Saad 1:04:51 This is a bullshit study.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Shut the fuck up. Let me tell you something.

Gad Saad 1:04:54 What's the reference there?

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 Number one is wrestling. Number one.

Gad Saad 1:04:57 Is, is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 100%. Put it at number one.

Gad Saad 1:04:59 You mean G- Greco-Roman wrestling, you mean?

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 Whether it's Greco-Roman or whether it's freestyle or whatever it is, folk style, whatever wrestling. That is the most physically demanding sport, for sure. It's so hard to do. It's so hard. And to be at an elite level?

Gad Saad 1:05:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 Like, like a, like a Daniel Cormier level?

Gad Saad 1:05:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Like ... (exhales)

Gad Saad 1:05:21 I- I'm going to pretend I know who that is. But go ahead.

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 He's f- two division UFC world champion.

Gad Saad 1:05:26 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 He was also an Olympic wrestler.

Gad Saad 1:05:28 Nice.

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 I- there's, there's levels that these guys are at that is their fucking fitness is off the charts, their athleticism is off the charts.

Gad Saad 1:05:36 Well, you know my ... I, I think we probably discussed this before. This is not wrestling, but my brother was an Olympic, uh, judoka.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 Oh, well that's another one, man.

Gad Saad 1:05:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Judo is hardcore. I've, I've trained a bunch with judo guys. They're ridiculously strong-

Gad Saad 1:05:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 ... because they're throwing bodies around all the time.

Gad Saad 1:05:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 And that throwing bodies around, when they grab ahold of you, it's a totally different feeling.

Gad Saad 1:05:58 So, I- I'm sure I've said this story befo-

Narrator 1:06:00 Judo's number one ) .

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 What's that?

Narrator 1:06:02 Boxing and wre- wrestling number one, boxing two.

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 Yeah, that's, that's how it should be.

Narrator 1:06:05 Soccer none.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 That, that's ... What is this website? This website's a good website.

Narrator 1:06:09 I just ... Athletic ability or so? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 (laughs) Yeah. That's that website made for this.

Gad Saad 1:06:11 If it agrees with my thinking, it's a good website. If it doesn't, it's a bullshit website. Okay. What, where's soccer there, Jimmy?

Narrator 1:06:17 Judo's number nine on this list.

Gad Saad 1:06:19 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Yeah, wrestling-

Gad Saad 1:06:20 That's bullshit.

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 ... MMA, that's, that's accurate. That's accurate. Because if you look at guys like, uh, uh, Karelin, Alexander Karelin, who's the scariest fucking wrestler of all time. Like, if anybody says, like, "Who's the scariest wrestler of all time?" It's Karelin. He, they used to call him The Experiment 'cause his f- his paren- or his parents were like normal size. Like, kinda tiny, like 5'7". And he's a fucking panther, like a human panther.

Gad Saad 1:06:46 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Six foot two, 300 pounds, and you know what his move is?

Narrator 1:06:50 Yikes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 He throws people around. He picks them up and beats them with the earth.

Gad Saad 1:06:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 He's the most terrifying wrestler ever 'cause he would just hoist them up in the air and s- ... Look at that picture. See that picture?

Narrator 1:07:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:01 I have that picture framed in, on metal, printed on metal in the gym just to remind me of what a pussy I am.

Gad Saad 1:07:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 You should always know that dudes like that have existed and probably still exist today.

Gad Saad 1:07:13 Okay, so let's-

Joe Rogan 1:07:13 He was fucking terrifying.

Gad Saad 1:07:15 Let's play the f- the football game of can I get a yard. You go in with this guy-

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Zero chance. Zero chance.

Gad Saad 1:07:20 No, not winning. How long can you last?

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 I'd have to run away. It would just be as lo-

Gad Saad 1:07:25 Just ... Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 ... until he catches me.

Gad Saad 1:07:27 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:07:27 I would have to run away, and I probably wouldn't be able to run away. He's faster than me. He's big-

Gad Saad 1:07:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 ... and fast.

Gad Saad 1:07:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 The thing about Karelin was he was 300 pounds, but he moved like a cat.He had crazy flexibility, like ridiculous flexibility and mobility. He did all these mobility drills, like if you watch his workouts, they were extraordinary. 'Cause, like, he's doing a lot of things like shield casts with giant steel plates, so he's doing a lot of this shit. So his, like, rotational muscles-

Gad Saad 1:07:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 ... his ability to manipulate things in awkward positions was off the charts. It was all, like, heavy kettlebell work.

Gad Saad 1:08:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 That guy was a freak. And his mobility, he would sh- all these mobility drills and different thing... Like, look what he's doing.

Gad Saad 1:08:09 Oh my goodness.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 Look at this. I mean, this is a fucking Olympic gold medalist wrestler.

Gad Saad 1:08:15 What year is this, '80s?

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 (sighs) I think his last wr- wr- wrestling matches were around, I wanna say before 2000, because he did have offers. He d- he had, like, one Fugazi MMA fight. It was, like, a fake MMA fight, 'cause they did a few of those in Ch- in Japan. They used t- they had a weird sort of symbiosis with pro wrestling-

Gad Saad 1:08:39 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 ... and MMA.

Gad Saad 1:08:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 And so there was MMA fights in Japan that are allegedly fixed, and they look fixed. You watch them, you're going, "Get the fuck out of here."

Gad Saad 1:08:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 Like, it's like you- you see, like, a fake tap-

Gad Saad 1:08:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:50 ... you see, like, someone giving their arm up or something. There was some of that going on. And so it seems like he got involved in one of those-

Gad Saad 1:08:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 ... where they gave him a shit ton of money and they said, "Come over here. It's kind of pro wrestling, but kind of not. We'll say it's an MMA fight." It's one of those deals. But if he did fight MMA, everyone would be fucked, everyone.

Gad Saad 1:09:09 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 Everyone would be fucked. And if you figured out how to strike, oh my Jesus.

Gad Saad 1:09:14 You know, I- I- I'm not sure if I've- we've talked about this before, but, uh, the precursor of MMA, I had had that conversation with my brother, the judo guy, because we would go out to night clubs and he would... You know, he's very, very small guy, probably 5'3", but built like a pit bull. And he'd- he'd kind of interact with the world as though he's 6'8", the bouncers and so on. And I once asked him, "Do you think you can take these guys?" And he said, "If I can get them. Like, if they knock me out before I get to them, then they knock me out. But if I get them and I can bring them down, then they're dead." And I think from my very, very limited knowledge of MMA, the guys who usually win are precisely those guys who can do exactly what he said, right?

Joe Rogan 1:09:59 W- yeah, sort of, but kind of everybody knows how to defend that now. It's just how well can you defend and how good of a striker is that wrestler? Because there's this gentleman who's, uh, coming up on the scene right now, his name's Bo Nickal. And he's an elite, like, blue chip wrestler, like a elite wrestler.

Gad Saad 1:10:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 Like Olympic caliber wrestler. And now he's competing in MMA and his last fight was a- a first round knockout with his hands, and he showed that he's got sick boxing skills too.

Gad Saad 1:10:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Which is the most terrifying thing. When you've got a guy who's above and beyond you in grappling, like once he gets a hold of you, you're Fucksville. There's no way... You're a fucking one-way ticket to Fucksville.

Gad Saad 1:10:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 He's gonna slam you to the ground, he's gonna control you, he's gonna beat your ass. They're just too good at wrestling.

Gad Saad 1:10:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:47 And then also he can fuck you up standing.

Gad Saad 1:10:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 That's where it gets really dangerous. So if a guy like Karelin learned how to stand up, that would've been the end, 'cause there- there's certain freaks that, like, he just, like, athletic freaks, where you're just like, "I don't under- what are you gonna do with that? What are you gonna do with that?"

Gad Saad 1:11:02 So in the MMA, in the history of MMA, is there someone that is akin to Messi in terms of, like, a Michael Jordan or a Messi in the MMA?

Joe Rogan 1:11:09 There's a few. There's a few that are in that conversation. I think the number one consensus greatest of all time is Jon Jones. 'Cause Jon Jones just went up and easily won the heavyweight title with a first round submission, easily, just took the guy down, strangled him, quick. And the way he did it was, like, so extraordinary, his control of distance, his management of the space, like the way he set it up. It's- it's really tough to argue that he's not the greatest of all time. U- undefeated as a light heavyweight, had one defeat that was a disqualification, that's 100% bullshit. He was on top of this guy, smashing him, beating the fuck out of him, but they said that he did 12 to 6 elbows, which are the dumbest fucking ever rule in MMA. 'Cause what if it's 12:05? What if it's 12:05?

Gad Saad 1:11:52 Sorry, what does that mean? I- I don't see what you mean.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 Oh, I'm sorry.

Gad Saad 1:11:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 From the position on the clock.

Gad Saad 1:11:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 Y- an elbow straight down is illegal.

Gad Saad 1:11:58 Oh, I see.

Joe Rogan 1:11:58 Doesn't make any sense.

Gad Saad 1:11:59 You have- you have to do it sideways? What, wha- how do you do it?

Joe Rogan 1:12:01 Y- you do it at an angle.

Gad Saad 1:12:02 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 But it's literally because the athletic commissions that were sanctioning MMA initially, they said, you know, "We've seen those things on ESPN where people break bricks with their elbows. You can't do that. It's too dangerous."

Gad Saad 1:12:16 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:16 "So you can't do that on the ground." You can't even do it standing up, I don't believe. I think if someone comes straight at you and tomahawk elbows you, I believe that's illegal.

Gad Saad 1:12:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 I- I'm not sure about that. But on the ground, it's most certainly illegal. And it's the dumbest rule. It doesn't