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Joe Rogan Experience #2020 - Python Cowboy

Mike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel is a licensed wildlife trapper of invasive and dangerous species, contracted python hunter, and owner of Martin County Trapping and Wildlife Rescue. www.pythoncowboy.com

Joe RoganhostMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmelguest
Jun 27, 20241h 54mWatch on YouTube ↗

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  1. 0:0015:00

    (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. NA

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Yeehaw.

    4. MK

      Am I wearing these?

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. MK

      Okay.

    7. JR

      Wear 'em. You feel weird?

    8. MK

      No, I'm just ...

    9. JR

      Have you done a podcast before?

    10. MK

      I have. Uh, not quite to this level, I don't think, but ...

    11. JR

      Uh, how did you get ... first of all, how bad is the python and invasive species situation in Florida?

    12. MK

      It, it is bad. It's definitely bad. You know, you, you have these TV shows that make especially the python thing seem like it's a lot worse than it is. Um, you know, or a lot easier than it is, I should say. It's a bad situation. We have our native wildlife being wiped out. But it's not like you're just gonna go out there and you're tripping over pythons, you know? It, it's not the case. Uh, I search very, very hard to find them.

    13. JR

      There was an estimate of 500,000 pythons in the Everglades.

    14. MK

      C- could be more. Um, I personally think there's less.

    15. JR

      Really?

    16. MK

      Uh, I do, I do. We don't really know what's out there. Uh, the estimates have been 100,000 all the way up to 3,000,000.

    17. JR

      Mm.

    18. MK

      And-

    19. JR

      How do they estimate?

    20. MK

      That's the thing. They're just going off of captures, really, and the decline of native wildlife, which there's other factors at play when it comes to the decline of our native wildlife. Obviously, pythons are eating up our native wildlife in the Everglades without a doubt. Uh, there is a lot of evidence of that. But our Everglades is a struggling place as it is right now between the water management, the overpopulation of our state. We have a growing panther population that we're looking like we're having trouble sustaining. And, um, all-

    21. JR

      Sustaining? How so?

    22. MK

      Uh, well, we see a lot of depredation in Collier and Henry County, um, from-

    23. JR

      And when you mean depredation, you mean attacking wildlife?

    24. MK

      Uh, a- attacking not so much wildlife, but p-

    25. JR

      Uh, excuse me. Um-

    26. MK

      ... pets and livestock.

    27. JR

      Livestock.

    28. MK

      Yes, sir.

    29. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MK

      Um, a- and we just see that there's more panthers than we're accounting for, uh, just from, uh, vehicular deaths.

  2. 15:0030:00

    (exhales) Oh. …

    1. JR

      (exhales) Oh.

    2. MK

      So, I get ahold of it and it starts dragging me. It's pulling me off the island. I-

    3. JR

      So, is it wrapped around you? Are you just hanging on?

    4. MK

      No, no, no, no, no. It's, it's stretched out and-

    5. JR

      But you're hanging on?

    6. MK

      I'm hanging onto it. Yeah, it's-

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. MK

      ... it's the, uh, this thing's eaten alligators, eaten deer. It's the biggest thing out here. It's not worried about nothing. It's not scared of me, you know what I mean? It's, it's kind of seeing what I'm doing. So, I got ahold of it and it's starting to-

    9. JR

      Are you wearing gloves?

    10. MK

      No.

    11. JR

      How are you able to really grab it?

    12. MK

      If I had gloves on, I wouldn't be able to grab it. I, I need my bare hands to be able to work and, and feel everything, have the grip. Um, gloves, gloves will just get in the way.

    13. JR

      Even something with, like, a texture to it?

    14. MK

      I don't want any of that.

    15. JR

      Okay.

    16. MK

      I don't want any of that. They just get in the way. Um, so, I got the snake dragging me out and in the swamp, uh, you know, losing this battle. I'm able to dig my heels down and into the limestone that I'm standing on, the limestone island, and I'm able to, to, to stop her. I'm not gaining on her, but I got her stopped and we're kind of in this Everglades tug-of-war right now. And she starts to get pissed off. She starts hissing, she starts turning around on me, and this, this is what I want. But, I gotta (laughs) not get bit, you know what I mean?

    17. JR

      Holy fuck.

    18. MK

      Um, a snake this size, to my advantage, they're, they're slower than a smaller snake. They have a lot of body mass. They're gonna tire out quickly, and, uh, her strikes aren't gonna be lightning fast. So, she's striking at me, I'm dodging her strikes. Every-

    19. JR

      Oh, my God. (laughs)

    20. MK

      Everything's going good. Everything-

    21. JR

      You Floyd Mayweather out there. (laughs)

    22. MK

      (laughs) Yeah. Doing a little duck and weave. Everything's going good. Um, normally when a strike, uh, when a snake strikes, it's gonna strike out, recoil back, get ready, strike again, recoil back. That's how they strike. That's how they get that power. They kind of, like, recoil their body. So, it's, it struck, I dodged it, it recoils back, like, a third of the way and hits me with this little sneak attack strike that I wasn't expecting. This snake is wh- anywhere from 10 to 20 years or more old, so it's been around the block. It's a smart snake, and, um, you know, snakes don't normally do that. I think she, she kind of knew what she was doing. She struck, she got me on my arm, got an artery, got some veins coming off my artery.

    23. JR

      (exhales)

    24. MK

      And, uh, that, that doesn't do it justice at all. Um, their, their teeth are all, they're punctures. So, uh, you know, they're like needles, so they puncture down deep, but-

    25. JR

      You can see them here. They're fucking crazy.

    26. MK

      ... you can see that top one gets right into my main vein, and the real bad one was on the top of my arm that you can't see, where it's on this... I think it's an artery, I may be wrong, coming, coming, uh, on the top of my arm. And I got very lucky. Uh, normally w- when they bite, they, they latch on, and she woulda latched on, she woulda wrapped around me, and, you know, I would've been in a very, very bad situation being out there by myself.

    27. JR

      (exhales)

    28. MK

      Thank the good Lord, I, I had him on my side that day. Um, she struck, she bit, I was able to grab her head, and I don't know if it's how I pushed it forward and pulled her off, or what, 'cause all their teeth are recurved like, like fish hooks almost, kinda. Got her right off of me. Grabbed her head, pushed her off of me. She didn't latch on. She was trying to bite again. Maybe, maybe that's, she didn't think she had a good bite and she was trying to re-grip, but I got lucky. N- now I have her head. I'm bit, I'm spraying blood.

    29. JR

      (exhales)

    30. MK

      ... all over the Everglades, but I, I have her head. So now, now my main thing is controlling her without exerting myself too much, 'cause every time I'm, I'm doing anything, I mean, it's, it's... I've never seen blood come out of my body like this, you know-

  3. 30:0045:00

    Oh. …

    1. MK

      There's nothing wrong with that. There's a, there's a right and wrong way with anything, like owning a gun or, or anything else. Um, you know, it's, we shouldn't necessarily make these animals illegal, because what we've seen when ... Just recently, they've made iguanas and tegus illegal in Florida to own as pets, and we're seeing people dump their pets because FWC has been going around. And they said they wouldn't, but they have been. They've been going around and actually euthanizing people's pets.

    2. JR

      Oh.

    3. MK

      And to someone that, you know, this iguana or this python even or anything, to a lot of people, it's, it's like a dog. It's like someone killing your dog. It, it really is. And, um, they would much rather turn it loose and give it the chance to survive than to have it euthanized.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MK

      And then what you're left with is irresponsible pet owners. You're, you're left with people that are breaking the law to own these animals.... probably don't have proper enclosures, probably don't take good care of them, and probably will just release them when they're done with them. So you take all of the good away and you're left with the bad, when instead, we should put popu- pop, uh, regulations in, in place, proper regulations, where people then are forced to house these animals correctly. Um, and the problem is no longer pet iguanas or pet pythons, it's wild breeding animals. And when they made these, um, iguanas illegal just this past year, they've now stopped all of that free management we had of people coming from all over the country, coming to Florida, catching these iguanas, catching these tegus, taking them out of the state and selling them where they can't survive anyway 'cause it's too cold. Um, and it was, it was helping us. It was helping control these populations. Now all of that is gone. Um, y- you're not allowed to do that anymore. And this year in particular, I'm seeing more baby iguanas than I ever have in my entire life. It's, it's out of control.

    6. JR

      So that was the primary way that they were regulating, or that they were controlling the population size, was people coming in and grabbing them?

    7. MK

      No, that's not the primary way, but that was a huge way. Um, that was-

    8. JR

      What percentage do you think it was?

    9. MK

      That was on top of what myself and, and other, uh, people in the state are doing. Um, that was for, especially for the juveniles and baby iguanas, that's 90, 90%.

    10. JR

      Whoa.

    11. MK

      Um, you know, that, that's what they're after. They go out there, they trap them. Uh, I, I'm, it may even be, you know, bigger than I'm thinking. Uh, the, a lot of people were making livings off coming down here, catching them, taking them out of state.

    12. JR

      And out of state they can't survive?

    13. MK

      No, it's too cold. Uh, y- you see it just with, you don't have these animals surviving in North Florida.

    14. JR

      Really?

    15. MK

      It gets, it gets too cold.

    16. JR

      Interesting.

    17. MK

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      That's crazy then. So it's like te- almost like a perfect scenario, because they can't be invasive. They can't survive.

    19. MK

      Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and that's the thing, you know. We all fought against this when they were trying to get these, these new laws passed, because at face value it seems like, oh yeah, make them illegal, it, it'll help.

    20. JR

      Right.

    21. MK

      But, um, you know, when you talk to the experts and the people that really know, it's, it's counterproductive.

    22. JR

      And at this point there's so many iguanas in Florida that the idea of eradicating them-

    23. MK

      Uh, no. We're never getting, we're never getting rid of the pythons, we're never getting rid of the iguanas. They're here to stay, but management is absolutely essential.

    24. JR

      Is it possible to manage the pythons in the Everglades?

    25. MK

      Yes. It, it is. Um, you know, how effectively it is remain to be seen. Uh, I feel right now we're losing, we're losing that battle. But that's because the state really ties our hands. Um, for the general public, it's almost impossible for them to go out and hunt these pythons. They just don't have the access. Um, you know, they're not getting compensated for it, nothing like that. A lot of these areas where the pythons are, you're not legally allowed to go off the trail in a vehicle, and that's the only way you can get around. Uh-

    26. JR

      So you have to stay on trail?

    27. MK

      Y- you have to stay on levies, roadways, um, in-

    28. JR

      Is there an extensive trail system or is it mostly just wild?

    29. MK

      No, it's mostly just wild. And, and here's an- another thing which you're gonna get a kick out of. In the national park itself, you are not allowed to remove invasive species. If you come across a 20-foot python eating a deer, you are not allowed to do anything because it's inside the national park and everything inside the national park is protected, even the invasive wildlife.

    30. JR

      Oh, wow.

  4. 45:001:00:00

    Yeah, yeah. It would…

    1. JR

      just removed all the levees and just let everything flow all the way down, it would flood Miami?

    2. MK

      Yeah, yeah. It would flood all, all, all through, which, you know, who knows? They maybe, uh, uh, if you could take away everything they did, all the ground being built up and everything, yes, it would, it would be a swamp.

    3. JR

      Wow.

    4. MK

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      It's kind of crazy when someone sets out to do something to make it habitable for people and doesn't take into consideration that this is just this immense ecosystem.

    6. MK

      Oh, yeah. You, you'll get a kick out of this. So in, in an effort to dry up the Everglades while they were doing this, they wanted to dry the Everglades up. They actually from airplane reloose- released Melaleuca seeds over the Everglades because Melaleuca sucks up water. So now, they pay contractors to go out and remove the Melaleuca from the Everglades-

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. MK

      ... because it's sucking up all the water.

    9. JR

      Oh, boy.

    10. MK

      It's, it's crazy.

    11. JR

      There's so many instances in human history of people putting in a species to try to mitigate another species and having that species run amok, like the Australia situation with the wild cats.

    12. MK

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      It's insane.

    14. MK

      It is.

    15. JR

      Well, they have feral cats everywhere in Australia.

    16. MK

      Oh, yeah.

    17. JR

      They've decimated ground nesting birds, and they kill everything.

    18. MK

      Everything, everything. We see it in Florida. We see it in Florida. We have feral cats like crazy, and they're-

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. MK

      ... killing everything.

    21. JR

      We saw the numbers. We read the numbers out one day on the podcast about how many animals get killed every year just in the US by feral cats, and it's in the billions.

    22. MK

      Mind-blowing.

    23. JR

      (laughs) It's so crazy they're such little murderers.

    24. MK

      I think they've said, like, 15 to 20 different species are attributed to them being extinct-

    25. JR

      Yes.

    26. MK

      ... at least because of the cats.

    27. JR

      (exhales) It's crazy.

    28. MK

      Yeah, it is.

    29. JR

      So the Florida situation as it stands, wh- what, uh, what are the official efforts to mitigate the, uh, python population?

    30. MK

      So, um-

  5. 1:00:001:15:00

    Again, it's not something…

    1. JR

      some stir-fry or... What do you, how do you cook iguanas?

    2. MK

      Again, it's not something like, "Hey, darling, I got some iguanas fried up for dinner," you know. It's, uh, I'm feeding most of it to my livestock and then making leather products from the skin. But, um, I've barbecued it. I've, um, uh, kind of pan-fried it in some General Tso's and pineapple, and that was actually really good. The, uh, I got a big male that had like these huge cheeks, and in the cheeks there's a- a nice medallion of meat and, uh, that's how I fried that up. It was good.

    3. JR

      Mm. Was it- does that taste similar to anything?

    4. MK

      It's almost like a dark meat frog leg.

    5. JR

      Mm, okay.

    6. MK

      Which sounds-

    7. JR

      I've had frog legs before.

    8. MK

      ... maybe a little gross, but it- it's not bad. It's not bad.

    9. JR

      Frogs are pretty good.

    10. MK

      Yeah. Oh, yeah, frogs are delicious.

    11. JR

      Yeah, it's just people have to get past the fact that it's a frog.

    12. MK

      Mm-hmm. Yeah, same thing with python and iguana.

    13. JR

      Yeah, so is that a common thing where people hunt and eat iguanas now in Florida?

    14. MK

      Um, not so much to hunt them to eat them. I think that's more just like a YouTube thing, you know, people-

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. MK

      ... love that stuff.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. MK

      Um, it- it's more so you have people hunting them 'cause it- it's fun. It is. It's- it's a really fun thing to do. I do guided hunts for it and I do guided hunts for just about everything in Florida, and I always say I've never seen people have so much fun as I do on these iguana hunts. I mean, you're just... You may shoot at 100 iguanas in the day, you know, and watch my dog go in and catch it, bring it back and...

    19. JR

      Are you using air guns?

    20. MK

      Yeah, we're using, um, really high-end semi-automatic air rifles. Uh, 25 and 30 caliber. This is actually out on a golf course.

    21. JR

      The size of these suckers.

    22. MK

      And, uh, yeah, that's a big breeder. That's, that's what I'm looking for when I'm out there. You know, I'm removing any iguanas I see, but those are the, the big problem. Those big breeders. They, uh, they usually have a harem of, like, five or six females. And little fun fact, they have two peckers. So, they're out there slanging it, you know what I mean?

    23. JR

      (laughs)

    24. MK

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      And they're everywhere?

    26. MK

      Uh huh, yeah. They're, they're everywhere. They are everywhere.

    27. JR

      And is there a, a limit? Like, if you're, uh, after invasive species, are you allowed to just shoot as many as you find?

    28. MK

      Yeah. Yeah, it is. Um, I don't want to make it seem like, you know, the iguana thing is just a free-for-all in Florida. Uh, the iguanas, they're in these real residential areas. Uh, you know, urban settings where you just can't really walk around and shoot stuff in people's backyards. You're trespassing. People are calling the cops on you. Um, I'm permitted and licensed to do this in, in the various areas I do. Someone will hire me, bring me in, and, um, you know, definitely for people to go out and do this on their own, they need to be careful. They need to make sure they're in a public area where they're allowed to do that.

    29. JR

      Your dog just jumped in the water and caught a swimmer.

    30. MK

      Yeah. Yeah.

  6. 1:15:001:22:33

    Mm-hmm. …

    1. JR

      case 'cause it's such a wild place. It's always a place that people have kinda gone to get away from everywhere. It's the South, but it's very different-

    2. MK

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      ... than the rest of the South. And then the fact that it's... I mean, it's got such a crazy history of cocaine and Miami and the violence and the organized crime, and-

    4. MK

      That's all linked to the- the exotic pet trade as well.

    5. JR

      Is it?

    6. MK

      It all goes hand-in-hand.

    7. JR

      Y-

    8. MK

      Yes, sir.

    9. JR

      How so?

    10. MK

      So, you know, the- the big thing with all these big drug dealers, you know, at the time, was having these crazy exotic pets, tigers, fucking anacondas, big snakes, all kind of stuff.

    11. JR

      (groans)

    12. MK

      And they... you know they ain't the best pet owners.

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. MK

      You know what I mean? And not to say that the animals released or escaped from them became a problem, but it was the whole culture of it.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. MK

      Everyone wanted to be like these drug dealers, so they all wanted these crazy animals, too, for the wrong reasons.

    17. JR

      Mm.

    18. MK

      And I think that's why it- it... at least one of the reasons it became so popular down here to have these crazy animals. It's a good climate and everything for it, too, obviously. But, um, uh, it- it was just such a- a big thing and still is.

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. MK

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      Florida is unlike any other place. It really is. It's li- unlike any other place in the country.

    22. MK

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      And the fact that you guys are dealing with all these different invasive species there, it's almost appropriate.

    24. MK

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      Like, for the- the-

    26. MK

      (laughs) Yeah.

    27. JR

      ... 'cause the- the state is so crazy.

    28. MK

      Yeah. (laughs)

    29. JR

      It's just like, "Of course."

    30. MK

      (laughs) Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:54:44

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