The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2020 - Python Cowboy
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155 min read · 30,506 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- NANarrator
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Yeehaw.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Am I wearing these?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wear 'em. You feel weird?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
No, I'm just ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you done a podcast before?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
I have. Uh, not quite to this level, I don't think, but ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, how did you get ... first of all, how bad is the python and invasive species situation in Florida?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
It, it is bad. It's definitely bad. You know, you, you have these TV shows that make especially the python thing seem like it's a lot worse than it is. Um, you know, or a lot easier than it is, I should say. It's a bad situation. We have our native wildlife being wiped out. But it's not like you're just gonna go out there and you're tripping over pythons, you know? It, it's not the case. Uh, I search very, very hard to find them.
- JRJoe Rogan
There was an estimate of 500,000 pythons in the Everglades.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
C- could be more. Um, I personally think there's less.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Uh, I do, I do. We don't really know what's out there. Uh, the estimates have been 100,000 all the way up to 3,000,000.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
How do they estimate?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
That's the thing. They're just going off of captures, really, and the decline of native wildlife, which there's other factors at play when it comes to the decline of our native wildlife. Obviously, pythons are eating up our native wildlife in the Everglades without a doubt. Uh, there is a lot of evidence of that. But our Everglades is a struggling place as it is right now between the water management, the overpopulation of our state. We have a growing panther population that we're looking like we're having trouble sustaining. And, um, all-
- JRJoe Rogan
Sustaining? How so?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Uh, well, we see a lot of depredation in Collier and Henry County, um, from-
- JRJoe Rogan
And when you mean depredation, you mean attacking wildlife?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Uh, a- attacking not so much wildlife, but p-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, excuse me. Um-
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... pets and livestock.
- JRJoe Rogan
Livestock.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yes, sir.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Um, a- and we just see that there's more panthers than we're accounting for, uh, just from, uh, vehicular deaths.
- 15:00 – 30:00
(exhales) Oh. …
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales) Oh.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
So, I get ahold of it and it starts dragging me. It's pulling me off the island. I-
- JRJoe Rogan
So, is it wrapped around you? Are you just hanging on?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
No, no, no, no, no. It's, it's stretched out and-
- JRJoe Rogan
But you're hanging on?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
I'm hanging onto it. Yeah, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... it's the, uh, this thing's eaten alligators, eaten deer. It's the biggest thing out here. It's not worried about nothing. It's not scared of me, you know what I mean? It's, it's kind of seeing what I'm doing. So, I got ahold of it and it's starting to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you wearing gloves?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
How are you able to really grab it?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
If I had gloves on, I wouldn't be able to grab it. I, I need my bare hands to be able to work and, and feel everything, have the grip. Um, gloves, gloves will just get in the way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Even something with, like, a texture to it?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
I don't want any of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
I don't want any of that. They just get in the way. Um, so, I got the snake dragging me out and in the swamp, uh, you know, losing this battle. I'm able to dig my heels down and into the limestone that I'm standing on, the limestone island, and I'm able to, to, to stop her. I'm not gaining on her, but I got her stopped and we're kind of in this Everglades tug-of-war right now. And she starts to get pissed off. She starts hissing, she starts turning around on me, and this, this is what I want. But, I gotta (laughs) not get bit, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Holy fuck.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Um, a snake this size, to my advantage, they're, they're slower than a smaller snake. They have a lot of body mass. They're gonna tire out quickly, and, uh, her strikes aren't gonna be lightning fast. So, she's striking at me, I'm dodging her strikes. Every-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my God. (laughs)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Everything's going good. Everything-
- JRJoe Rogan
You Floyd Mayweather out there. (laughs)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
(laughs) Yeah. Doing a little duck and weave. Everything's going good. Um, normally when a strike, uh, when a snake strikes, it's gonna strike out, recoil back, get ready, strike again, recoil back. That's how they strike. That's how they get that power. They kind of, like, recoil their body. So, it's, it struck, I dodged it, it recoils back, like, a third of the way and hits me with this little sneak attack strike that I wasn't expecting. This snake is wh- anywhere from 10 to 20 years or more old, so it's been around the block. It's a smart snake, and, um, you know, snakes don't normally do that. I think she, she kind of knew what she was doing. She struck, she got me on my arm, got an artery, got some veins coming off my artery.
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And, uh, that, that doesn't do it justice at all. Um, their, their teeth are all, they're punctures. So, uh, you know, they're like needles, so they puncture down deep, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
You can see them here. They're fucking crazy.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... you can see that top one gets right into my main vein, and the real bad one was on the top of my arm that you can't see, where it's on this... I think it's an artery, I may be wrong, coming, coming, uh, on the top of my arm. And I got very lucky. Uh, normally w- when they bite, they, they latch on, and she woulda latched on, she woulda wrapped around me, and, you know, I would've been in a very, very bad situation being out there by myself.
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Thank the good Lord, I, I had him on my side that day. Um, she struck, she bit, I was able to grab her head, and I don't know if it's how I pushed it forward and pulled her off, or what, 'cause all their teeth are recurved like, like fish hooks almost, kinda. Got her right off of me. Grabbed her head, pushed her off of me. She didn't latch on. She was trying to bite again. Maybe, maybe that's, she didn't think she had a good bite and she was trying to re-grip, but I got lucky. N- now I have her head. I'm bit, I'm spraying blood.
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... all over the Everglades, but I, I have her head. So now, now my main thing is controlling her without exerting myself too much, 'cause every time I'm, I'm doing anything, I mean, it's, it's... I've never seen blood come out of my body like this, you know-
- 30:00 – 45:00
Oh. …
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
There's nothing wrong with that. There's a, there's a right and wrong way with anything, like owning a gun or, or anything else. Um, you know, it's, we shouldn't necessarily make these animals illegal, because what we've seen when ... Just recently, they've made iguanas and tegus illegal in Florida to own as pets, and we're seeing people dump their pets because FWC has been going around. And they said they wouldn't, but they have been. They've been going around and actually euthanizing people's pets.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And to someone that, you know, this iguana or this python even or anything, to a lot of people, it's, it's like a dog. It's like someone killing your dog. It, it really is. And, um, they would much rather turn it loose and give it the chance to survive than to have it euthanized.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And then what you're left with is irresponsible pet owners. You're, you're left with people that are breaking the law to own these animals.... probably don't have proper enclosures, probably don't take good care of them, and probably will just release them when they're done with them. So you take all of the good away and you're left with the bad, when instead, we should put popu- pop, uh, regulations in, in place, proper regulations, where people then are forced to house these animals correctly. Um, and the problem is no longer pet iguanas or pet pythons, it's wild breeding animals. And when they made these, um, iguanas illegal just this past year, they've now stopped all of that free management we had of people coming from all over the country, coming to Florida, catching these iguanas, catching these tegus, taking them out of the state and selling them where they can't survive anyway 'cause it's too cold. Um, and it was, it was helping us. It was helping control these populations. Now all of that is gone. Um, y- you're not allowed to do that anymore. And this year in particular, I'm seeing more baby iguanas than I ever have in my entire life. It's, it's out of control.
- JRJoe Rogan
So that was the primary way that they were regulating, or that they were controlling the population size, was people coming in and grabbing them?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
No, that's not the primary way, but that was a huge way. Um, that was-
- JRJoe Rogan
What percentage do you think it was?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
That was on top of what myself and, and other, uh, people in the state are doing. Um, that was for, especially for the juveniles and baby iguanas, that's 90, 90%.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Um, you know, that, that's what they're after. They go out there, they trap them. Uh, I, I'm, it may even be, you know, bigger than I'm thinking. Uh, the, a lot of people were making livings off coming down here, catching them, taking them out of state.
- JRJoe Rogan
And out of state they can't survive?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
No, it's too cold. Uh, y- you see it just with, you don't have these animals surviving in North Florida.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
It gets, it gets too cold.
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy then. So it's like te- almost like a perfect scenario, because they can't be invasive. They can't survive.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and that's the thing, you know. We all fought against this when they were trying to get these, these new laws passed, because at face value it seems like, oh yeah, make them illegal, it, it'll help.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
But, um, you know, when you talk to the experts and the people that really know, it's, it's counterproductive.
- JRJoe Rogan
And at this point there's so many iguanas in Florida that the idea of eradicating them-
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Uh, no. We're never getting, we're never getting rid of the pythons, we're never getting rid of the iguanas. They're here to stay, but management is absolutely essential.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it possible to manage the pythons in the Everglades?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yes. It, it is. Um, you know, how effectively it is remain to be seen. Uh, I feel right now we're losing, we're losing that battle. But that's because the state really ties our hands. Um, for the general public, it's almost impossible for them to go out and hunt these pythons. They just don't have the access. Um, you know, they're not getting compensated for it, nothing like that. A lot of these areas where the pythons are, you're not legally allowed to go off the trail in a vehicle, and that's the only way you can get around. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you have to stay on trail?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Y- you have to stay on levies, roadways, um, in-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is there an extensive trail system or is it mostly just wild?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
No, it's mostly just wild. And, and here's an- another thing which you're gonna get a kick out of. In the national park itself, you are not allowed to remove invasive species. If you come across a 20-foot python eating a deer, you are not allowed to do anything because it's inside the national park and everything inside the national park is protected, even the invasive wildlife.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Yeah, yeah. It would…
- JRJoe Rogan
just removed all the levees and just let everything flow all the way down, it would flood Miami?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah, yeah. It would flood all, all, all through, which, you know, who knows? They maybe, uh, uh, if you could take away everything they did, all the ground being built up and everything, yes, it would, it would be a swamp.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's kind of crazy when someone sets out to do something to make it habitable for people and doesn't take into consideration that this is just this immense ecosystem.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Oh, yeah. You, you'll get a kick out of this. So in, in an effort to dry up the Everglades while they were doing this, they wanted to dry the Everglades up. They actually from airplane reloose- released Melaleuca seeds over the Everglades because Melaleuca sucks up water. So now, they pay contractors to go out and remove the Melaleuca from the Everglades-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... because it's sucking up all the water.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, boy.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
It's, it's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's so many instances in human history of people putting in a species to try to mitigate another species and having that species run amok, like the Australia situation with the wild cats.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's insane.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they have feral cats everywhere in Australia.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They've decimated ground nesting birds, and they kill everything.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Everything, everything. We see it in Florida. We see it in Florida. We have feral cats like crazy, and they're-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... killing everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
We saw the numbers. We read the numbers out one day on the podcast about how many animals get killed every year just in the US by feral cats, and it's in the billions.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Mind-blowing.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) It's so crazy they're such little murderers.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
I think they've said, like, 15 to 20 different species are attributed to them being extinct-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... at least because of the cats.
- JRJoe Rogan
(exhales) It's crazy.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah, it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
So the Florida situation as it stands, wh- what, uh, what are the official efforts to mitigate the, uh, python population?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
So, um-
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Again, it's not something…
- JRJoe Rogan
some stir-fry or... What do you, how do you cook iguanas?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Again, it's not something like, "Hey, darling, I got some iguanas fried up for dinner," you know. It's, uh, I'm feeding most of it to my livestock and then making leather products from the skin. But, um, I've barbecued it. I've, um, uh, kind of pan-fried it in some General Tso's and pineapple, and that was actually really good. The, uh, I got a big male that had like these huge cheeks, and in the cheeks there's a- a nice medallion of meat and, uh, that's how I fried that up. It was good.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm. Was it- does that taste similar to anything?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
It's almost like a dark meat frog leg.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm, okay.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Which sounds-
- JRJoe Rogan
I've had frog legs before.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... maybe a little gross, but it- it's not bad. It's not bad.
- JRJoe Rogan
Frogs are pretty good.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah. Oh, yeah, frogs are delicious.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's just people have to get past the fact that it's a frog.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Mm-hmm. Yeah, same thing with python and iguana.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, so is that a common thing where people hunt and eat iguanas now in Florida?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Um, not so much to hunt them to eat them. I think that's more just like a YouTube thing, you know, people-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
... love that stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Um, it- it's more so you have people hunting them 'cause it- it's fun. It is. It's- it's a really fun thing to do. I do guided hunts for it and I do guided hunts for just about everything in Florida, and I always say I've never seen people have so much fun as I do on these iguana hunts. I mean, you're just... You may shoot at 100 iguanas in the day, you know, and watch my dog go in and catch it, bring it back and...
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you using air guns?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah, we're using, um, really high-end semi-automatic air rifles. Uh, 25 and 30 caliber. This is actually out on a golf course.
- JRJoe Rogan
The size of these suckers.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And, uh, yeah, that's a big breeder. That's, that's what I'm looking for when I'm out there. You know, I'm removing any iguanas I see, but those are the, the big problem. Those big breeders. They, uh, they usually have a harem of, like, five or six females. And little fun fact, they have two peckers. So, they're out there slanging it, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're everywhere?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Uh huh, yeah. They're, they're everywhere. They are everywhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
And is there a, a limit? Like, if you're, uh, after invasive species, are you allowed to just shoot as many as you find?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah. Yeah, it is. Um, I don't want to make it seem like, you know, the iguana thing is just a free-for-all in Florida. Uh, the iguanas, they're in these real residential areas. Uh, you know, urban settings where you just can't really walk around and shoot stuff in people's backyards. You're trespassing. People are calling the cops on you. Um, I'm permitted and licensed to do this in, in the various areas I do. Someone will hire me, bring me in, and, um, you know, definitely for people to go out and do this on their own, they need to be careful. They need to make sure they're in a public area where they're allowed to do that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Your dog just jumped in the water and caught a swimmer.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah. Yeah.
- 1:15:00 – 1:22:33
Mm-hmm. …
- JRJoe Rogan
case 'cause it's such a wild place. It's always a place that people have kinda gone to get away from everywhere. It's the South, but it's very different-
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... than the rest of the South. And then the fact that it's... I mean, it's got such a crazy history of cocaine and Miami and the violence and the organized crime, and-
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
That's all linked to the- the exotic pet trade as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
It all goes hand-in-hand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Y-
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yes, sir.
- JRJoe Rogan
How so?
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
So, you know, the- the big thing with all these big drug dealers, you know, at the time, was having these crazy exotic pets, tigers, fucking anacondas, big snakes, all kind of stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
(groans)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And they... you know they ain't the best pet owners.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
You know what I mean? And not to say that the animals released or escaped from them became a problem, but it was the whole culture of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Everyone wanted to be like these drug dealers, so they all wanted these crazy animals, too, for the wrong reasons.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
And I think that's why it- it... at least one of the reasons it became so popular down here to have these crazy animals. It's a good climate and everything for it, too, obviously. But, um, uh, it- it was just such a- a big thing and still is.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Florida is unlike any other place. It really is. It's li- unlike any other place in the country.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the fact that you guys are dealing with all these different invasive species there, it's almost appropriate.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, for the- the-
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause the- the state is so crazy.
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just like, "Of course."
- MKMike "Python Cowboy" Kimmel
(laughs) Yeah.
Episode duration: 1:54:44
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