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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2027 - Oliver Anthony

Oliver Anthony is a singer/songwriter whose song "Rich Men North of Richmond" recently became a viral phenomenon. He's the first songwriter to debut at the top of the Billboard Hot 100 with no prior chart history in any form. www.facebook.com/people/Oliver-Anthony-Music/100085643337139/

Joe RoganhostOliver Anthonyguest
Jun 27, 20242h 27mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:00

    Intro

    1. NA

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Genuine Crocs. (laughs) Do you ever find yourself with the desire to welcome the Crocs into your life?

    4. OA

      Yeah, I've got a ... Yeah, I've got some, some genuine RealTree Crocs-

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. OA

      ... for when I'm out (laughs) when I'm out in the sand, you know. So-

    7. JR

      I know guys who use those as camp shoes. They like to walk around camp in them, 'cause you're wearing heavy boots in the mountains, all winter long.

    8. OA

      Yeah. It's ... Well, they're nice to k- ... Yeah, they're nice to s- kind of keep with you as a spare. You know, if you soak your boots or you're-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. OA

      ... just trying to go in and out of the house real quick. Yeah.

    11. JR

      Brian Simpson now has Crocs and stage Crocs.

    12. OA

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      So before (laughs) Brian Simpson goes on stage, he takes off his walk around Crocs and he puts on his pristine stage Crocs.

    14. OA

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      It's hilarious. It's so funny. He used to do it with sneakers. He used to walk around with Crocs, then he would wear sneakers on stage. And then he went from Crocs to stage Crocs.

    16. OA

      Yeah. Well, he- maybe I'll look into that. I need to get some new boots.

    17. JR

      (laughs)

    18. OA

      My boots are like l- like these are my ... these are the ones I always wear, and, uh, they're l- th- we were walking through the airport yesterday, and they're, they're like literally one of the soles has fallen off. I'm like, "I gotta figure out something." So-

    19. JR

      You gotta get them resoled, man. They're authentic.

    20. OA

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      They're beat up.

    22. OA

      These are my genuine- (laughs)

    23. JR

      You earned them. You know? People pay for those.

    24. OA

      I've thought about it. I was joking with my buddy the other day. I had ... I went and changed my oil at his house, uh, before we drove to North Carolina, and, uh, (laughs) I left the empty jug of oi- or the dirty oil sitting in his garage, and I was, I was like, "I'll get it, whatever." He said, "No, man." He said, "I'm selling that on eBay." (laughs)

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. OA

      That's Oliver Anthony's authentic, uh, used motor oil out of his truck.

    27. JR

      You could probably get 20 bucks for that. Yeah, there's a, a lot of people that definitely would, would buy that. But what I mean, people buy used clothes 'cause they want to wear clothes that look like, you know, they have character.

    28. OA

      (laughs) Yeah.

    29. JR

      You know? Like it drives me crazy. When I buy peop- when I see people with, uh, pants that are just, are shredded all over the place, like your knees are exposed. Like-

  2. 2:00 – 5:00

    Buying used clothes

    1. OA

      Yeah. Well, see, the, the pro tip I have for that is just go to Goodwill. You can, you can get real used clothes.

    2. JR

      Yeah. For real used clothes.

    3. OA

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      But that's, that's, uh, extra like hipster authentic if you get ... well, if you go to a real used clothes store.

    5. OA

      Right.

    6. JR

      What do they call those? Vintage. You go to a Vintage Club.

    7. OA

      Yeah, like that, that vintage look. Yeah.

    8. JR

      Oh, yeah. If you could buy some holy T-shirt that some dirty hippie wore to a Rolling Stones concert-

    9. OA

      (laughs)

    10. JR

      ... in the 1970s. If you can get that now, that's worth a lot of money.

    11. OA

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      You know? If like he died of a heroin overdose and he kept the fucking T-shirt at his mom's house-

    13. OA

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      ... and she, she had to sell it, that's worth a lot of money.

    15. OA

      I've tried to hold onto things that I think I could sell down the road. Like I've still got the, um ... I've got the strings that I recorded Richmond with the Richmond on my guitar. I was gonna th- I almost threw them away. I was like, "Oh, hold on a second."

    16. JR

      You could definitely sell those.

    17. OA

      In hard times, th- ... Yeah. I may have to-

    18. JR

      Yeah. You could definitely sell those.

    19. OA

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      Well, that would be like an honest sale. People can't say, "Oh, he's a sellout." (laughs)

    21. OA

      Yeah. Yeah. I'm just selling junk I have. I actually ... I'm considering selling my, my truck. Um, just if any... I don't know. I, I think we talked about this once before.

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. OA

      But if somebody w- ... It's, it's worthless to me. It's got 325,000 miles on it and a salvage title. And, uh, I still daily drive it, but I thought, "Man, if I could sell this and somebody pay 50 grand for it or whatever and send it towards a charity," like it would be ... it'd be pretty slick to do, you know.

    24. JR

      It has a salvage title?

    25. OA

      It does, yeah.

    26. JR

      What happened? Did you buy it when it was already wrecked? (laughs)

    27. OA

      No. Um, (laughs) well ... Now I paid ... I ... It's a, it's a 2007 Suburban. I paid a couple grand for it years ago, and then, um, just here recently I had to have it towed. It broke down. And the rollback driver, I guess -- I don't know if, if he was under the influence or something or what -- but he unhooked all the chains off and then tilted the bed back.

    28. JR

      Oh, no.

    29. OA

      So the whole truck rolled right off the back of the rollback. (laughs)

    30. JR

      Oh, no.

  3. 5:00 – 7:00

    Roadster Shop

    1. OA

      it. It would have a cool story behind it, you know.

    2. JR

      This company called Roadster Shop, they've been on my podcast before. Well, one of the things they do is they do like a sleeper series. I think they call it The Legend Series. Um, I don't ... I'm, I'm actually not sure what they call it. But what they do is they'll take an old car. So the outside looks like shit. The outside has patina and rust-

    3. OA

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      ... and all that stuff. And then they just completely redo-

    5. OA

      (laughs)

    6. JR

      ... everything underneath it with like a crazy engine, insane brakes, insane handling and suspension. But it still looks like an o- a n- you know, '72 P- GMC pickup truck.

    7. OA

      Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    8. JR

      But underneath it, it's just a monster. (laughs)

    9. OA

      It's got all the, it's got all the modern amenities and ef- ... 'Cause new cars are so much more efficient. Like you don't realize when you, uh ...

    10. JR

      So they do stuff like this w- like-

    11. NA

      That's gotta it.

    12. JR

      Th- but they have different kinds of builds. No.

    13. NA

      Okay.

    14. JR

      So these are all just like the different ones that they did-

    15. NA

      All right.

    16. JR

      ... Survivor series, that's what it is. The Survivor Se- well, so the, so I think the Survivor series, that's what it is, like they leave the outside. (clears throat)

    17. OA

      It's interesting to me that older vehicles had so much more character. Like I don't know if it's just that it's, uh-

    18. JR

      It's people were doing drugs, bro.

    19. NA

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      That's what it is. We- we- we- we nailed it with them. We sat down with them and they introduced me to all these people that were the designers back in GM, in the day.

    21. OA

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      This guy was a freak. He was wearing like crazy red suits-

    23. OA

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      ... and this crazy, uh, guy was probably definitely on acid. And these are the people that created these insane shapes. And then when the sweeping Psychedelics Drug Act of 1970 came along, they made everything a Schedule I drug.

    25. OA

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      This-

    27. OA

      And that is when cars went downhill. What really-

    28. JR

      It is when cars went downhill.

    29. OA

      ... was early '70s, yes.

    30. NA

      Hmm.

  4. 7:00 – 9:00

    Cocaine Years

    1. OA

      it's like-

    2. JR

      Sort of, but back then, I don't even think they had data they were going on. They were going on past success. So if you go to like the 1980s, some of the worst movies that were ever made-

    3. OA

      (laughs)

    4. JR

      ... like the cocaine years, tho- those, I really strongly feel like those people were going on reputations of sales. And, you know, the studio would put a lot of money behind someone who had a, a great reputation, and the, "This guy's fucking partying-

    5. OA

      (laughs)

    6. JR

      ... and doing lines and writing crazy shit in these scripts." And some of them are good and some of them aren't so good, but they, there's, they're all kind of clunky.

    7. OA

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      They're all kind of disconnected.

    9. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    10. JR

      That like a, a true masterpiece of a movie isn't. You know, like Taxi Driver, like you go back and watch Taxi Driver, that's a masterpiece of a movie. It's so connected, you're connected to all the action. It's like you're on the edge of your seat. It's w- it's w- it's wild. The acting's insane. Even Jodie Foster as a kid is insane in it. It's so good. But cocaine movies in the '80s? (laughs) Like they just su-

    11. OA

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      They're just, they were nuts, man. They d- they didn't go on algorithms. I think they just went on what they thought people wanted. You know, they probably took polls, but who the fuck's answering polls? Polls are the worst way to get information.

    13. OA

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      'Cause you're only getting information from people dumb enough to answer polls.

    15. OA

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      Like that's such a small group of people. How many people answer polls when they call you up? How many people have, fucking people with a life, have time for a poll?

    17. OA

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      You know? Do you think Jordan Peterson has ever answered a poll?

    19. OA

      Yeah, like, um, I always get those calls and immediately hang up. Yeah.

    20. JR

      Yeah. Just shut the fuck up.

    21. NA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      I am sorry I have to do this to you, buh-bye. "No, don't hang up."

    23. OA

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      Some of them will beg, "Please."

    25. OA

      Yeah, it's, it's, um-

    26. JR

      They can't get anybody to do it.

    27. OA

      Yeah, it's f- it's fascinating to see throughout history, times when people were able to really connect with other humans like on that, like whether it's through movie or film or cars or whatever, it's like maybe it was the psychedelics or whatever, I don't know. But, um, there was a huge disconnect, it seemed like after the '70s with all that. Things kind of went off hi- And it's interesting even now, like I see a lot of the new, a lot of the new movies coming out, they're all just sort

  5. 9:00 – 12:00

    Movies

    1. OA

      of remakes of, they're just like a n- they're like a reconceptualization of something that's happened 15 years ago. There's not a lot of like new stuff out there for people to connect with. It's-

    2. JR

      Yeah, Matt Damon did this conversation about why it's so much more difficult to make movies now there's no DVD sales anymore, and it was very interesting and it kind of makes sense. I think it's just, it's really hard to finance those fucking things.

    3. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      And d- do you want a guaranteed success? What's a guaranteed success? You need a superhero.

    5. OA

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      People like superheroes. You know, and, uh, if your superhero's trans, even better. (laughs)

    7. NA

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      If you could, if you could figure out a way to make every ethnicity inside the group-

    9. OA

      Right.

    10. JR

      ... of superheroes that are there, perfect, now we're good.

    11. OA

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      Now we need CGI, we need aliens, explosions.

    13. OA

      Yeah, I think CGI-

    14. JR

      Virtue.

    15. OA

      ... is a blessing and a curse because like S- I don't know, some of the best, some of the best film, it, it doesn't necessarily have the best stunts or the, you know, like-

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. OA

      You can tell where some of it's fabricated, but that's okay because the, the whole, you know the whole thing's a fabrication going into it. It's just about like being able to believe the story within it. That's what's important, you know? Even like-

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. OA

      I'm not a huge movie guy and I guess I'm, um, it's, it's difficult for me to sit three hours and watch something straight. My mind's already long gone within the first 30 minutes doing something else. But Star Wars was really partial to me growing up, and I don't think they'll ever touch the original series, even though, yeah, like you can tell some of it, like it look, it, even with some of the like, the, the renovations they've done on the newer versions o- of it, like to make, to m- adding CGI into the old films, it's like just the story of the originals to me meant a lot more than the old, than the newer stuff just because of the... You, you don't believe it looking at it with your eyes as much, but you believe it more with your, with your mind like listening to what it has to tell you, you know?

    20. JR

      I think the s- that Star Wars is like generational wealth. Like the original guy-

    21. OA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      ... who started the company was a bad motherfucker. That guy was out there grinding and he was selling soap out of the back of a wagon in 1890.

    23. OA

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      But the folks who inherited the company-

    25. OA

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      ... three, four, and five generations in, they're kind of flat.

    27. OA

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      There's not, there's, it's different. You know?

    29. OA

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      When I watch Star Wars now it's like a bunch of stuff happening. It's still fun. They're still good, I enjoy them.

  6. 12:00 – 15:00

    American Werewolf in London

    1. JR

      was also on the podcast back in the day, he made an American Werewolf in London that you could buy online. And I'm like, "That would be the sickest thing-

    2. OA

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      ... for the studio ever." And then Rick Baker came and was a guest, and Rick Baker said, "The proportions are off." Like, the wolf, the arms weren't as long, it was, like, short, or it was like this and that. So Pat McGee listened, and he was like, "Shit, I gotta make a better one."

    4. OA

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      And so he made an even better one. And the new one-

    6. OA

      Nice.

    7. JR

      ... is all hair. It, there's no synthetic hair, so it's all, like, I think it's yak hair that they use. So it's, like, individual hairs-

    8. OA

      Wow.

    9. JR

      ... are put in all over this wolf, and it looks fucking amazing.

    10. OA

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      It's so sick.

    12. OA

      It does look... That's the, yeah, that's the first thing that catches your eye walking in here, I'd say, out of everything.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. OA

      Just like, whoa.

    15. JR

      That thing's sick.

    16. OA

      You're not gonna find one of those in any other places.

    17. JR

      That was my w- 100% my favorite horror movie. That, I love that movie, 'cause it's funny, it's terrifying. It a- has to do with... The werewolf theme to me is so amazing, that you take some person who's, like, a good person. They're a friendly, nice guy-

    18. OA

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      ... and you're like, "Hey, man, you have to lock yourself in a cage. You're gonna become a monster." And it's like, "What the fuck are you saying?"

    20. OA

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      "It doesn't make any sense." And no one, and they never want to believe, and you know it's gonna happen. And in that one, that was the first time in, uh, one of those movies where you got to see, uh, the, like, the advancements of special effects. Like, what year was American Werewolf in London? Let's guess that. I want to say '82? I'ma say '82, '84? 81.

    22. NA

      '81.

    23. JR

      '81.

    24. OA

      '81.

    25. JR

      Um, I should've stuck with '82.

    26. OA

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      But back, back then, when, when, you know, you had special effects, it was, like, kind of like, they didn't move that good. Like, they couldn't get their faces to move that good. But he had figured out a way to get your hands to grow, like, "Aah!"

    28. OA

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      And he had to figure out a way to get things in his cheeks where his cheeks were bubbling.

    30. OA

      Yeah.

  7. 15:00 – 18:00

    The difference between digital and real

    1. JR

      long CGI'd up monster killing someone scene. Like, the American Werewolf in London was just a masterpiece. Landis just nailed it. It was the perfect horror movie. And it was funny. It was like, there's funny moments in it.

    2. OA

      Yeah, that's cool when you can add, you can, you can get humor in there too. Yeah, that, that, uh, that kind of reminds me of my dog when I don't give him table scraps, you know?

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. OA

      He's got that terrible, that terrible face like that.

    5. JR

      That thing was amazing.

    6. OA

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      But i- it's just the difference between digital and real. And you're gonna have to deal with that soon. Because I guarantee you, there's gonna be some people that are making some CGI-

    8. OA

      Oh, there are.

    9. JR

      ... AI-

    10. OA

      There already are.

    11. JR

      ... art out there?

    12. OA

      Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

    13. JR

      What is that? I'm sure there are.

    14. OA

      I, yeah, I haven't kept up with a lot just 'cause, um, you know, I'm doing... So a- all, anything social media related right now or anything, any internet presence I have right now is coming from me off the phone, just like before everything blew up. So I haven't invested the time to, like, look at everything circulating. But I've se- people, like, f- friends and family have sent me stuff. And some of it's pretty funny, but, uh, you know, they've got all these different AI remixes of the song with different voices, and, um, overlay different faces and all. And it's, it's funny to see where it's gonna go, you know?

    15. JR

      That is funny. Yeah. You're gonna have to deal with that.

    16. OA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      My daughter sent me some advertisement. She goes, "Did you do this advertisement?" I'm like, "Nope."

    18. OA

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      "Nope, that's not really my voice." I mean, it is my voice, but the-

    20. OA

      Yeah, like, the day after, the day after things blew up, one of the towing companies had, had an ad on Facebook that had... It wa- it wasn't really me, but it was a red beard and, like, the side profile is sunglasses, looking out the window. I'm like, "Okay."

    21. JR

      How dare you?

    22. OA

      I guess I've made it anyway.

    23. JR

      (laughs)

    24. OA

      That's when I realized, like, people are already ripping things off.

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. OA

      And what's crazy is, like, every shirt that I've worn anywhere in public, there's, um... So there's a, there's a organization that I've, um... I'm not, like, officially r- related to, or in any way have done anything with. But it's a friend of a friend in the neighborhood, it's called Nets with Vets, and they take out veterans with PTSD and let 'em go deep sea fishing and... So he asked me last minute just to wear his shirt at one of the concerts. And do you know now there's like 1,500 listings online for counterfeit Nets with Vets shirts?

    27. JR

      That's crazy.

    28. OA

      And so the organization reached out, like, "Hey, are you, like, making shirts ripping us off?"

    29. JR

      (laughs)

    30. OA

      And I was like, it's like, "It's not me." So it's like, but it's just, it's a weird-

  8. 18:00 – 21:00

    Your shit went to the moon

    1. JR

      you. But you have a song where you're talking about how people are fed up with shit, and it obviously resonated. I mean-

    2. OA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... I've seen songs go viral, but that's pretty bananas, son. (laughs) Your shit, your shit went to the moon right away.

    4. OA

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      And, uh, God, I'm not sure who sent it to me. I have to find out who sent it to me 'cause it's one of those things where, like, once one person sent it to me, then it was like dozens of people were sending it to me.

    6. OA

      Yeah. It- it, um, it's funny 'cause originally that song wasn't in my- it wasn't really even in my top five. Like, it's not normally the type of song... I've written songs with similar messages, but as far as that sort of, like, I guess, anthem format is what people are calling it, it's like an anthem, like, that's not something I would normally write. But, uh-

    7. JR

      But it's an unlikely anthem.

    8. OA

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      You know? Insane times.

    10. OA

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      It would be an unlikely anthem.

    12. OA

      Yeah, I had no idea that that song would react the way it did. Um...

    13. JR

      Well, you're a smart guy, and it's representative of how a lot of people feel. And it's also, there's just something about the way certain people sing, and I don't know what it is 'cause I can't sing, but there's a, there's a tone, there's an authentic sound, and I know when they're faking it. And it's not that they're not faking it in a beautiful way, like, there's a lot of people I- uh, faking it's probably a bad term, but they're sounding perfect and they're singing a song.

    14. OA

      Hmm.

    15. JR

      There's something missing. I don't know what it is.

    16. OA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      But some people, like Janis Joplin's, uh, like, one of my greatest examples. There's an, uh, Take A Little Piece of My Heart, there's a authenticity-

    18. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      ... in that voice that Goddamn, man. If that doesn't bring you to your knees-

    20. OA

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      ... like, play that. Play that. We need to hear that. We got time.

    22. OA

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      This fucking song, every ti-

    24. OA

      We always got, we got time.

    25. JR

      Every time. (instrumental music plays) This is one of those songs that every time I hear it, it just takes me, in my mind, to what it must have been like to be alive in 1968 or whenever it was that this came out. And this hippie chick who's some- 27 years old-

    26. OA

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      ... has a, a voice from the heaven.

    28. NA

      I'll make you feel like you are my only man.

    29. JR

      God damn, son.

    30. OA

      (clears throat)

  9. 21:00 – 24:00

    The best way to sing

    1. OA

      uh, I think, at least in my case, I think the one thing that's helped me too is that s- my singing isn't the best, but I've never had any, like, vocal lessons or anything. So the way I sing is just the way I sing. And so, like, I think even the same way with her and other people, it's like, it's maybe rough around the edges, it could be a little pitchy, or it's, you know, you're not using the right part of your face when you project and whatever. And so like on paper things aren't quite right, but to the- I guess to another human, it's like it sounds like- it sounds right 'cause it's- it's- it is- it is what it is, you know?

    2. JR

      It's authentic.

    3. OA

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      Yeah. I don't think there's any right way to do anything. I mean, there's s- like you see it in everything. There's a person who violates the rules, and they're the best at it. (laughs)

    5. OA

      And then ev- and then the rules almost morph into whatever that is. Like, um-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. OA

      ... it's funny like with music. Yeah, music has... Country in particular, but music in general has gotten way too wrapped up in, like, this algorithm of how many beats per minute it needs to have and how many verses and how they need to be layered. And it's like they've almost created this sort of, like, industry standard, uh, like, OSHA rule book of how music needs to be performed. And so, like, you can only do that so many thousands of times before people are like, "Okay, what else is there?"

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. OA

      You know?

    10. JR

      Well, people like that too. That's the thing. There's a lot of damn people.

    11. OA

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      There's a lot of people. The problem, I think, with a lot of people is they want you to like what they like. And if you don't like what they like, what you like sucks. (laughs)

    13. OA

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      It's- it's funny like that, man. It's- we- we're so tribal. We- we are- we are tribal with our cellphones. You know, we're an Android or PC, you know, Android people have to stick together.

    15. OA

      Oh, we're all about brands, yeah.

    16. JR

      It's like we're so weird.

    17. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. JR

      We're so weird. But we're like that with our musical taste, we're- we're like that with our cultural sensitivities or- or- or c- cultural sensibilities rather. Like, the way we feel about l- life and how life should be. We want everybody to kind of think along the ways that we think.

    19. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    20. JR

      It's- it's very strange. And when a person like yourself gets labeled a right-wing, left-wing fanatic, like right out of the gate. (laughs)

    21. OA

      Yeah. Both in- both in, like, a week and a half. Then, yeah, at least I know I'm doing something right. Like, to me, um...

    22. JR

      Yeah. They're lo- they're looking for your Biden campaign contributions now. They're going through your fucking taxes.

    23. OA

      (laughs)

    24. JR

      It's- the whole thing is so bonkers, man. Like, can't they just accept that you made a great song and people enjoy it?

    25. OA

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      Like, why does it ha- wh- you know, why do people have to attack it?

    27. OA

      Well, I think it's just for whatever reason I've been- there's- I'm the subject matter the last couple weeks, and I- and, you know, in everyone's defense, I probably haven't-... it, I've waited for, for this opportunity, I guess, to really have a real conversation with somebody about whatever it is I am. So people are just trying to find who's this Oliver Anthony guy, and what is he, and where does he work, and who did he vote for, and what's his family like? And y'all, 'cause they want to sort of build this, um, image of whatever it is that the person behind the song represents, for better or for worse.

    28. JR

      Right.

    29. OA

      The people who agree with it wanna, you know... Ev- I don't know. It's, it's really funny to watch on my end s- 'cause obviously I know

  10. 24:00 – 27:00

    Whats funny to watch

    1. OA

      what's true and what's not. And so, like, just even what I've skimmed through of people sending me, like, uh, (laughs) like the, like singing at the Super Bowl. Like, how many people have formed an opinion about whether or not I should be paid to sing at the Super Bowl? Like, I'm not singing at the Super Bowl.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. OA

      That's just a, some- somebody made up. But you know, there's, there's been hundreds of hours of people's time wasted probably talking about all these little, like, things that don't even exist. It's just somebody made them up and put them on the internet and... So I'm just letting them ride. I think they're, I think it's, I think it's great. (laughs)

    4. JR

      It's wild.

    5. OA

      I just think it's great, like, that at least the last couple weeks I've been able to entertain everyone and get everyone's mind off, like, all the, all, all the other horrible stuff that's going on in the world right now. Like, uh-

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. OA

      ... at least everybody can have a good laugh, you know? So...

    8. JR

      Well, I mean-

    9. OA

      (laughs)

    10. JR

      ... it's, it's a subject of discussion. So, like, everybody is getting involved and, and then somehow or another it became cultural. And then there was, uh, Dwight from The Office.

    11. OA

      Oh, yeah.

    12. JR

      (laughs) Heu, he chipped in that if he-

    13. OA

      (clears throat)

    14. JR

      ... was gonna write a cultural anthem... What did he say? Something like, he wouldn't write about o- (laughs) ... overweight people on welfare. He would write about billionaires and their taxes.

    15. OA

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      There is nothing funnier than millionaires talking shit about billionaires.

    17. OA

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      There is nothing funny, funnier about millionaires pretending these billionaires are out of touch.

    19. OA

      Oh, yeah. (laughs)

    20. JR

      (laughs) And then, you know, take, take Dwight from The Office down to West Virginia. You know, take him, take him through those coal mining countries. Take him through those places in Appalachia where people have extreme poverty.

    21. OA

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      And pills have ravished those areas. Take him through there.

    23. OA

      And it's everywhere. Yeah, the sad thing is it's, it's everywhere now. It's not-

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. OA

      You know, it's funny. People right off the get-go... I guess because it was Radio WV that posted the original video, but, like, I've never once advertised myself as being necessarily from the mountains. My grandfather grew up in western part of Virginia in the mountains, but I'm, I'm from Farmville, which is technically Piedmont. But even in... Throughout rural Virginia that poverty is a big issue and drugs are a big issue. And, I mean, it's not just even in the rural areas. In... You go into downtown Richmond, or any downtown anywhere for that matter, it's like, it's almost like, um, yeah, these problems exist everywhere now that are... And I think, I mean, obviously they are because-

    26. JR

      They exist everywhere.

    27. OA

      ... that's why the song resonated the way it did, you know?

    28. JR

      They exist in other countries, yeah.

    29. OA

      Even in other... In other countries, yeah (clears throat) . Uh-

    30. JR

      But people are tired of being fucked with. And it seems like people in power are always fucking with people. And it's a, I think it's a natural inclination that human beings have. And I think the founding fathers of this country recognized that when they set up our government. They set up our government to protect it against tyranny. And they did it by having all these different branches of government, and they're all coordinated, and there's a lot of fucking-

  11. 27:00 – 29:00

    Federal government

    1. OA

      level and in our state government, things are cr- especially local government, things are just very neglected and weak and disconnected. And so, like, that's why you see a- a lot of the problems... Like, we shouldn't have to rely on the federal government to fix things out in the street in small town America. Like, the communities and the local government should be the ones fixing that. And that's, that's the way I see things. Like, even before the, um... Even before our current form of government, I remember reading about, like, Articles of Confederation, and that was just a, an even smaller version of federal government. But it needed to have a little more structure than that. But even from day one, it seems like, uh, the federal government's never supposed to be the size that it's gotten to. Like, that's really...

    2. JR

      That's a good argument if the country didn't get to the size that it got. The, the problem-

    3. OA

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      ... is you can't have, like, 30 people running-

    5. OA

      Well, no you can't- (clears throat)

    6. JR

      ... 300 billion people.

    7. OA

      But, but I think you could have more issues. So, like, I just, I fi- I don't-

    8. JR

      300 million, though.

    9. OA

      I think it's almost impossible, um, it's almost impossible for states to be able to have the control to make the right decisions for the people in their areas when the federal government limits them in so many different ways. Um...

    10. JR

      I don't know anything about this, so I'm gonna be talking out of my ass.

    11. OA

      (laughs) I am...

    12. JR

      But I would imagine they're-

    13. OA

      Hey, look, I am too.

    14. JR

      ... they're probably low on funding, too. There's probably a lot of issues, especially in places that are poor, because they, they rely on taxes from those people.

    15. OA

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      It's, uh, it's all very complicated. But the idea of taxing the rich being the way to fix all this, no, you're just gonna give more money to the government, and they're not really good at doing stuff. You know? I mean, d- would it be nice if, uh, rich people donated to fixing streets and schools and stuff like that? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it would be.

    17. OA

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      Good, good, good call. Also, fat people shouldn't be buying fu- fudge rounds with, uh, food stamps.

    19. OA

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      Also, that's not good.

    21. OA

      Yeah. And that's, and that's, that's a funny, um...

    22. JR

      But also...

    23. OA

      That's a conversation that sort of got blown multiple ways. And really, I, I like to let a song be left up to the interpretation of the listener. But even with that, it's like, yeah, I would love to write a song about cor- like... I, I always thought it was funny to s- like, when GM got bailed out of the recession

  12. 29:00 – 34:00

    Corporate welfare

    1. OA

      after they made all these terrible decisions. Like, I never understood why we... I don't, I've ne- I've never understood corporate welfare either to much of an extent. So I do understand the people making that argument.

    2. JR

      Well, the corporate welfare argument is you're gonna lose a shitload of jobs. You can preserve those jobs, give those people a loan, they build back up, then they repay the loan. That's what they did, though.

    3. OA

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      So there's actually some benefit to that.

    5. OA

      Yeah. So yeah, there's-

    6. JR

      It keeps American jobs, and it also keeps one of the most iconic American car manufacturers in business.

    7. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JR

      It's good for everybody.

    9. OA

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      I think.

    11. OA

      It's a good, it's, it's a good conversation to have. Like, um...

    12. JR

      It is. Like, what gets bailed out and what doesn't.

    13. OA

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      And why. Yeah.

    15. OA

      Yeah. But ultimately, yeah, I do see a lot of people that aren't taken care of, um-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. OA

      And so it's-

    18. JR

      You know the most used business that didn't get taken care of during the crash? The porn business.

    19. NA

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      The porn business got wrecked. (laughs) They got wrecked because they used to rely on DVD sales.

    21. NA

      (laughs)

    22. JR

      And then internet pirating came along and they lost everything. And meanwhile, these politicians are probably whacking off every day to them. And not one-

    23. OA

      That's a big industry even today, like-

    24. JR

      Oh, for sure.

    25. OA

      ... yeah.

    26. JR

      For sure.

    27. OA

      Well, hey, for whatever they lost during the recession, they made it back during COVID 'cause that's my understanding everyone was doing that then, so...

    28. JR

      I- I don't know how that works, like who's getting paid. I don't know how that works. I'm sure there's a lot of money in that business.

    29. OA

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      There's obviously a lot of eyeballs in that business. I believe it's one third of internet traffic worldwide or something bonkers like that.

  13. 34:00 – 37:00

    Government

    1. JR

      robust and well-considered way. But that's not real.

    2. OA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      The reality is it's human beings like you and like me and like Jamie, people, people that get to dictate what other people can and can't do.

    4. OA

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      And that's where shit gets weird.

    6. OA

      Yeah, and a lot, a lot of people, I think, go into government with good intentions, but it's like anything else, once you, I think, get in the mix, it's like things change and you have to, um, you have to go with the flow and sort of agree to, agree on things that maybe you don't, your heart doesn't necessarily agree with. And so, that's why you see politicians constantly changing narratives depending on like the political climate. And so, yeah, it's kind of created this big disconnect between people like you and I, and p- and people like you and I that are in government because they're not, they're not necessarily saying what they feel or what they think. They're like, "Let me keep my stripes just like everybody else's so I don't stand out," you know? Like it's...

    7. JR

      Yes, there's a lot of that.

    8. NA

      (laughs)

    9. OA

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      There's a lot of-

    11. OA

      There's too much money tied up in politics, um, too much bribe and extortion and, and, and slap, pat-slap on the back deals and stuff that should never be allowed to happen, like, um... Yeah, that's what's really created a lot of the-

    12. JR

      Well, there's a bunch-

    13. OA

      ... dishonesty within it.

    14. JR

      There's a bunch of decisions that got made a long time ago that really fucked us. And one of them was when they let drug companies advertise on television. Th- that's just like... There's only two countries in the world that allow that.

    15. OA

      Really?

    16. JR

      The United States and New Zealand. Yeah, and I think it was '97. Was it '97 when they allowed that?

    17. OA

      Yeah, well, it's f- it's funny because, yeah, you watch the commercial and then at the end, it's like-

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. OA

      ... "Side effects may..." It's the best thing in the world-

    20. NA

      (laughs)

    21. OA

      ... to get to that last 20 seconds, you're like, "Oh, I don't know about that."

    22. JR

      Yeah, "I know you're at a cookout and everything looks great, next thing you know your asshole is fucking spraying blood and you're suicidal." (laughs) "Yeah, like what?"

    23. OA

      Yeah. Yeah, like, I mean-

    24. NA

      And they say it all so fast, "This is how..." blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    25. OA

      Yeah.

    26. NA

      You know?

    27. OA

      Yeah, big farm, I guess, right?

    28. NA

      Suicidal thoughts.

    29. OA

      So...

    30. NA

      Suicidal ideation.

  14. 37:00 – 44:00

    Diet

    1. JR

      care of us that we would rather go somewhere and get some medication than fix our life, than fix your lifestyle choices, and that's... And we've been programmed to sort of think that there's solutions for you out there. Go get those solutions. That's not a solution. Like internally, you need to reconsider, like what you're doing to your actual physical body. Like what are you doing to your physical body?

    2. OA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Like are you- are you giving your physical body the exercise that it deserves to be robust and healthy? If you're not, you should. Are you eating food that's nutritious? If you're not, you should.

    4. OA

      Yeah. Well, and how do do-

    5. JR

      You know, I- yeah.

    6. OA

      I mean, how do you do that in today's time anyway if you don't have a lot of money? Like-

    7. JR

      Well, you can exercise for sure.

    8. OA

      ... nutritious food... Oh, ex- exercise, certainly, yeah, but like-

    9. JR

      There's- there's a way to eat nutritious food on a budget, but you have to be diligent, you know. And the problem is fast food and food deserts, but if you have a supermarket, if there's a supermarket-

    10. OA

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... where you live, then you can get food.

    12. OA

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      And if the supermarket has food, you can get healthy food, and it's not that much more expensive. Even people that go on a carnivore diet. I know people that go on a carnivore diet on a budget, and they buy a... They go to Costco and got a- get a big, uh, tube of ground beef, and they freeze a lot of it, and they cook a bunch of it like in portions.

    14. OA

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      You know, eggs, eggs aren't that expensive.

    16. OA

      Oh, no, yeah, and it's... And that's a lot better than the crap from the store, but even it's not... Like I mean, you read about... I mean, just in the part of the country I'm at, we've got, um, cl- really close family of ours that farms. The father and the son have both died from cancer, from what they've been sp- you know, from the commercial agriculture they've been in spraying and all like. And all that stuff ends up in the food, and you get... I've read about microplastics in the food, like you- you know.

    17. JR

      Mm.

    18. OA

      You go and buy- you go and buy a tub of ground beef, like how much plastic was in the food that they... Of all the- all the bags of crap that they threw in there to feed the- feed the animals with. It's just... It is... Really, I think the only way to, in this time, in the area we're in, unless you're gonna go buy really expensive food out of like a- some fancy schmancy grocery store that I can't spell the name of, it's like you're really better off going to somebody local and buying it direct. Like buying it almost straight from the farmer. Um-

    19. JR

      Well, essen- cer- certainly if you have an organic farm near you. Yeah, definitely.

    20. OA

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      But yeah, pesticides and herbicides are a real deal. Atrazine, you know. Alex Jones famously said, the turn the frogs gay.

    22. OA

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      It... They... But they are. It's... They're making them hermaphrodites. They're making them switch sexes. I mean, a- Atrazine is, uh, a very potent endocrine disruptor, and it's a fertilizer, you know.

    24. OA

      (laughs)

    25. JR

      Or is it a pesticide? Pesticide. One of those. I think it's a pesticide.

    26. OA

      Something needs to be done about it. (laughs)

    27. JR

      But there's... You know, there's a lot of that shit that they spray on food. Some- something like 90-plus percent of people, um, tested have glyphosate in their blood.

    28. OA

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      That's wild. I mean, that- that is an herbicide that they spray on stuff to- to keep gluten going.

    30. OA

      Yeah, so to me, it's like I... Yeah, I- you can definitely eat healthy, like, um, but even then like a lot of the food today isn't very healthy just because... inherently just because of the way it's grown, like-

  15. 44:00 – 50:00

    Yoga

    1. JR

      said that yoga is, like, one of the main people that ... It's yoga and jujitsu, he said, people that come in to see him-

    2. OA

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      ... for treatment.

    4. OA

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      But jujitsu makes sense. It's literally a sport of trying to break bodies.

    6. OA

      But yeah, yoga you would think it would, you think it'd be the opposite, if anything, yeah.

    7. JR

      Oh, yeah, I've pulled muscles in yoga. Yeah, you're, you're doing hard stuff. But hot yoga I think is a little better for that because it really does warm your body up, like, almost instantly. And then, like, if you do the Bikram series, I know that guy was a creep, but, i- if you do the series, which it's not even ... He ... I don't believe he even invented that series of, of poses. I think he just popularized it.

    8. OA

      (sighs)

    9. JR

      And they're all, like, standard yoga poses. But that series is designed very well to get you really warmed up, so by the time you get into more complicated and challenging movements, your, your body's pretty warmed up.

    10. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      It's a good system. They're really ... It's fucking hard, man. A 90-minute hot yoga class at 105 degrees is a motherfucker.

    12. OA

      That sounds great for the ... Sounds like a great walk away from that, that feeling you get.

    13. JR

      Oh, you feel so relaxed, man.

    14. OA

      Yeah, that's ... That is one thing I'm looking forward to now is, like, uh, you know, f- continuing to focus on mental health and that area. But also, like, I'm excited to get into better shape physically, and, um, just I ... Like, r- the only thing I've done in the last six months at all is running. Uh, we were planning on, um, (laughs) we were planning on trying to, trying to schedule a run in September that I think was, like, 10 miles or something. So this is a friend of mine that I've been running with, you know, uh, two or three days a week. And even that just ... Whatever's on your mind when you start, it's gone by the time you leave, you know?

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. OA

      It's just, it's something good about, like, getting everything connected again.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. OA

      But, but music is big for, for me on that too, you know?

    19. JR

      For sure.

    20. OA

      That's ... Just getting your (clears throat) ... playing an instrument and singing like you just ... everything's, everything's all, all one again, you know?

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. OA

      It's very easy, especially ... And maybe because of social media and because of the way technolo- ... I don't know what it is that ca- ... I'm certainly no Dr. Phil, but it's like, the world we live in today, your mind is very easily disconnected from, like, your body physically. Like, it's f- you, you can get lost just worrying and thinking and doing and, you know? It's g- it's good to have something like that, I guess, to sp- y- have ... grounding's the word or whatever, I don't know. But it's good to have something like that to, like, get you back into reality again.

    23. JR

      Yeah, I ... My belief is that all human beings need something creative. Whether that something creative is a game that you play that you get to, like, invent moves or think about things and strategies, or whether that game i- or whether that creativity expresses itself in music or in, in illustra- drawing, painting, something. I think people really get a great satisfaction out of making things and of creating things.

    24. OA

      Well, sure, and everyone's good at something. That's what's cra- ... Well, I'd say almost everyone's good at something.

    25. JR

      I know some people that-

    26. OA

      I ... Well-

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. OA

      ... maybe they haven't figured out- Make good at shit. (laughs)

    29. JR

      ... what it is, but you know? Like, you'd be ... Um, that's one thing I've enjoyed over the years with, like, w- what I've done in the past is meeting all these different people. Even if it's, like ... I ... You'd be surprised at how, how unique people are in what they're able to do and what, like ... I don't know, everyone seems like they have that one thing. Maybe they l- maybe even if it's something that they had as a kid that they lost along the way. But, like, people are, people are really good at shit, and sometimes you underestimate people are ... and people don't spend the time they need to develop the craft it is they have, but ... It's also sometimes people don't find a thing early on in their life where they get into it, you know? So if they don't have a thing ever, it's very difficult for them to gravitate-

    30. OA

      Yeah.

  16. 50:00 – 53:00

    The Weed

    1. OA

      I'm cutting out the drinking, like I said, I haven't gotten high, um, in almost, I guess almost two months now, a month and a half or two months.

    2. JR

      That was your problem, huh, was the weed?

    3. OA

      Yeah. It was a, it, well... The problem for me was, um, well, I knew that I needed to do this. Like, I knew I needed to... I, I procrastinated with music a long time. I mean, I'm 31. I've been playing guitar and singing on and off since I was a kid. Like, my, my grandma was in a band years ago and so like little... I remember as a little kid what got me interested in all of it was, um, going... You know, Dukes of Hazzard when I was a kid, I was like five, and I used to sit with my grandma and we'd sit and watch Dukes of Hazzard and watch Waylon Jennings pick that guitar. Of course, I had no idea who Waylon Jennings was but that just like, I just fell in love with that. And, uh, so grew up listening to like that '70s country and she loved all the old stuff like the '50s and '60s, and, um, even in the '70s even, you know, Janis and all that. And so like she really introduced me a lot into music when I was a little kid and so like I just kind of held onto it but never, never pursued it the way I should. And then I'd play at a bonfire party or I'd play at whatever, it's a friend's house and everybody's like, "Man, you gotta do something with this. You're, you know, you don't wanna waste this talent you've got," and whatever. And that would almost make me feel even shittier because I'm like, "Oh man, I suck. Like I'm such a piece of crap for not doing something with this." And so yeah, like when I was outside of work it's like I would just, I would just... I'd drink, I'd get just absolutely stoned and I would just sit around and try to think about anything but what it was that I really needed to be doing which was like... And so, and it, it's kind of like funny but that's ended up what kind of sparked me into like writing all these songs and doing all this stuff 'cause it's like I, I don't know, just like with you probably with some, what you do, jujitsu or whatever, it's like for me songwriting is... It gets my head, like you said, getting your head clear, you know?

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. OA

      'Cause that's all you can f- and I... Songwriting is interesting for different people but I've, now that I've been in the... I guess (laughs) now that I've been in the industry for two weeks and I've talked to like-

    6. JR

      (laughs) Now that you've been in the industry, you conquered it.

    7. OA

      Now that I'm an industry expert, it's like some of the other musicians I've talked to like the people I've looked up to over the years, they experience this too, but certain people when you songwrite, it's a very, um, it's a, it's dramatic. Like, um-

    8. JR

      Do you write all your own songs?

    9. OA

      Yeah. But it's, it's-

    10. JR

      Have you been accused of not writing your own songs?

    11. OA

      Very early on, yeah, because since my sta- I guess it's not even my stage name, it's Oliver Anthony Music and so it's supposed to represent music from, you know, Oliver Anthony Music is my, my grandfather and so he grew up in the 30s in the mountains and used to tell all these wild stories about how life was back then. But the music's just sort of a characterization of like that period in time and those people, you know. And that's... So yeah, when, when-

    12. JR

      So your real name is not Oliver?

    13. OA

      Chri- yeah, Christopher An- Christopher Anthony Luntzer is my real legal name and so that's what's on like, like if you look up the songwriting-

    14. JR

      Why did you decide to sing as Oliver Anthony just in-

    15. OA

      Um, well, like I said I have it, I just had the, the YouTube channel listed as Oliver Anthony Music, um, just because like that's sort of, that's sort of the, the demeanor or the, like I said, the character I was rep- like that older

  17. 53:00 – 56:00

    Oliver Anthony Music

    1. OA

      Virginia style music.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. OA

      Like, if you, if you look, if you go on YouTube and you look up that type of music from back then like those old recordings of people like that's, that's what I've... I just love that type of stuff, you know.

    4. JR

      Do you think you're gonna keep that name?

    5. OA

      Yeah, I mean, I mean a lot of people still call me Chris. And I've posted on social media call me what... I mean, I've been called a lot worse than either of those things but-

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. OA

      Yeah, it'll s- it'll stay Oliver Anthony Music indefinitely, yeah. It's a s- it's a f- it's a special name and it's a special name to me not only because it was my grandfather's name but it's, it's sort of like to me it reminds me of how much... how different things were back then but, uh, he was born Oliver Anthony but everybody called him Antony growing up and so like, he always thought his name was Anthony Oliver and, uh, last name Ingall. And so like it wasn't until he was in his 60s and going to re- retire he realized that his name didn't match his birth certificate so he had to actually change his legal name when he was in his 60s but it's because back then-

    8. JR

      He thought his name was Anthony Oliver-

    9. OA

      Yeah, and so-

    10. JR

      ... his whole life?

    11. OA

      But his legal name was Oli- and so it's... Yeah, and his, his parents named him... So it's just like... But all, but all the paperwork back then was so scattered up because l- a lot of people were illiterate and of course documents weren't tracked as well as they are now, you know.

    12. JR

      Oh, I see.

    13. OA

      And so it's like-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. OA

      There's people in the family that have a different spelling and it's the same last name but the, a few letters are different and stuff. It's just kind of cool like, uh, but he just, he just thought that was crazy he had to change his name when he was 65 so he could draw his retirement and all 'cause his Social Security-

    16. JR

      That's crazy.

    17. OA

      ... and everything was under a totally different name but-

    18. JR

      That's crazy.

    19. OA

      So it's respec- it's just special to me. Um, he was... He's like the only other one in the family like me. Most of our family's like average height, six feet and under, but he and I were both, you know, 6'6", red-headed, left-handed. Like I just, I don't know, in a lot of ways I just, uh-... I, I thought it was special to kind of respect him. He passed away in 2019 and that's kind of when I, I guess that's when I first kind of adapted the name for the music. I didn't really get serious with anything until probably-

    20. JR

      Two weeks ago? (laughs)

    21. OA

      (laughs) Yeah, until a couple weeks ago. Probably until, I think, I uploaded the first original, like, like, when I was, when I decided I was in it to win it and I really wanted to make this thing happen, um, it was probably about, yeah, probably May of last year when I uploaded Ain't Got A Dollar. Or it might have been Rich Man's Gold was the first one I uploaded on YouTube, but that's when I decided like, "All right. I'm, I'm doing this thing." But, yeah, th-

    22. JR

      So y- you were just smoking too much weed, drinking too much, and just procrastinating?

    23. OA

      Yeah, yeah.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. OA

      Yeah, and so that ... And you know, like, anxiety is, uh, is definitely something that's underestimated. You know, I used to laugh about, or not laugh about, but I used to just not really understand when people talked about mental health and anxiety 'cause everyone gets stressed out over stuff, and so you think of anxiety as being just, like, this normal phenomenon everyone deals with. But your, your mind can really put you in a dark place to where that thing, it just like, it just holds onto you like a-

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. OA

      ... you know? And it, it just-

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. OA

      ... um, makes it very difficult for you to do anything. And so, yeah, I spent at least two years of my life almost constantly just having what felt like just a knot right here just, just wrenching at me, you know?

    30. JR

      Well, that's especially true for people that are pursuing a nontraditional life, you know, with ... that doesn't have any guarantees.

  18. 56:00 – 1:04:00

    Anxiety

    1. JR

      It's, uh, it's a wild life to try to be an entertainer. Like, to ju- just to choose to try to make it in this wild world of people that are singing and making songs.

    2. OA

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And you want people to pay attention to you?

    4. OA

      (laughs)

    5. JR

      Like, do you know how many people are singing?

    6. OA

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      How many people can sing? How many people-

    8. OA

      A lot.

    9. JR

      ... are recording things? And now with YouTube and, and the like, how many people are putting stuff up on the internet-

    10. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      ... for other people to enjoy? It's a lot.

    12. OA

      Well, I-

    13. JR

      The idea that you're gonna stand out, so that you're filled with anxiety just because of that, because you're ... the future's uncertain.

    14. OA

      Yeah, I think for me, a lot of it, a lot of the anxiety came from me just feeling like I was running out of time. Like, I knew that, um, I knew that I had an ability to pursue this and kind of take this adventure on, and I just had kept, like I said, for 10 years or more, had just k- I'd pick the thing up for a few months and then I'd put it down, uh, just always doubting myself, you know? Uh-

    15. JR

      Yeah. Well, I think it's, uh ... I mean, the universe, in some weird way, always sort of finds ... Like, for people that becomes very successful, especially like yourself, it's almost like that's the best way to do it. Like, I've never met anybody where I was like, "Your way to do it is the wrong way to do it." Like, I ... Everybody that I meet that becomes successful, especially like overnight people, it's like, "Oh, I see all these fa-" Well, that's why you're good, that's why you're good.

    16. OA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      You're good because you had a real life, like a real tortured-

    18. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    19. JR

      ... regular life, like regular people.

    20. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    21. JR

      If you're in the fucking Mickey Mouse Club when you're 14-

    22. OA

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      ... and then all of a sudden (laughs) you, you're famous for being p- I mean, I love Miley Cyrus to death, and she's-

    24. OA

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      ... fucking insanely talented. And I heard her new album is her best ever, everybody's raving about it, but I feel bad for people that become famous when they're young. I just feel like that's a b- heavy burden for you to have to carry and-

    26. OA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      ... you didn't ask for it. You can't ask for it, you don't know what it is. It's like d- you d- you know, it's like getting a face tattoo when you're five. Like-

    28. OA

      Yeah, well, that's-

    29. JR

      ... it's like, "I wanna get a heart tattooed on my forehead, let everybody know I'm full of love." Like, "Okay, Billy, let's take you to the tattoo parlor."

    30. OA

      (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:27:50

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