Joe Rogan Experience #2032 - BJ Penn & Tulsi Gabbard

1. 0:00 – 0:39

   Fight Companion banter and how “conspiracy theory” became a smear label

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience. (drumbeat music)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Are we up?

   4. NANarrator0:12

      We're up.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Yeah. We're doing, uh, Fight Companion Saturday night.

   6. TGTulsi Gabbard0:14

      Okay, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Fight Companion's fun.

   8. TGTulsi Gabbard0:16

      It is.

   9. NANarrator0:16

      It is fun.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       Have a little whiskey, watch the fights-

   11. TGTulsi Gabbard0:19

       Right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       ... talk a little shit. Eddie Bravo brings up some crazy conspiracies.

   13. TGTulsi Gabbard0:23

       Oh, man.

   14. NANarrator0:23

       (laughs) Every time. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       This time, Eddie's out, so Sam Tripoli's in. We brought him as-

   16. TGTulsi Gabbard0:28

       Right on.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       ... 'cause he's even more deep into the world of conspiracies, so.

   18. NANarrator0:30

       Wow.

   19. TGTulsi Gabbard0:31

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       And he's hilarious. That, that'll be fun.

   21. TGTulsi Gabbard0:33

       But conspiracy theory is the code name for spoiler, spoiler alert now, right?

   22. NANarrator0:39

       (laughs)

2. 0:39 – 4:24

   JFK assassination, the Zapruder film, and why delayed evidence fuels distrust

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:39

      Right. (laughs) It used... Well, it was invented, the term con- c- conspiracy theories was invented after they conspired to kill the President. That w- you know, that's-

   2. TGTulsi Gabbard0:47

      Huh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:47

      ... that's when conspiracy-

   4. NANarrator0:48

      I didn't know that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:48

      Yeah. Conspiracy theory, the term conspiracy theory started getting thrown around right around the time that Kennedy got assassinated.

   6. TGTulsi Gabbard0:57

      Wow.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:57

      And it was directly because there were so many people that had all these theories. There was all these stories, stories about the shots from the gr- the grassy knoll.

   8. TGTulsi Gabbard1:04

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:05

      And until Gr- Dick Gregory went on the Geraldo Rivera Show, which I think was 11 years later? What year was it that Dick Gregory went on Geraldo Rivera and showed the Zapruder footage?

   10. NANarrator1:19

       I just... uh, there's a... It says this was... They used it-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Many years later, like at least eight years later.

   12. NANarrator1:24

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Well, after the assassination.

   14. NANarrator1:26

       It says that they used it before that, though.

   15. TGTulsi Gabbard1:26

       What, the Zapruder film came later, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       They used it before that. Yeah.

   17. NANarrator1:29

       But it was a different assassination attempt.

   18. TGTulsi Gabbard1:31

       Oh, right.

   19. NANarrator1:31

       Garfield.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Oh, it was another assassination attempt? Garfield. Interesting.

   21. NANarrator1:36

       Oh, interesting. Wait.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Interesting.

   23. TGTulsi Gabbard1:36

       Are we talking-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       In 1881. Interesting.

   25. NANarrator1:39

       They have it listed on a piece of paper.

   26. TGTulsi Gabbard1:40

       Oh, conspiracy theorists.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:42

       Interesting.

   28. TGTulsi Gabbard1:42

       But when did the Zapruder film come out?

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       So, they had the Zapruder film. Zapru... I think his name was Abraham Zapruder. He was at the scene, and he was filming the President as he was driving down. And as he was driving down, he caught the shots.

   30. TGTulsi Gabbard1:59

       Hmm.
3. 4:24 – 6:54

   Pre-internet information flow and the modern acceleration of narrative battles

   1. TGTulsi Gabbard4:24

      Yeah. Well, imagine how, imagine how, um, long it took for somebody to find out who the President was before the telegraph type thing.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:32

      Oh, yeah.

   3. TGTulsi Gabbard4:33

      Two years? And-

   4. NANarrator4:34

      (laughs)

   5. TGTulsi Gabbard4:35

      And now i- imagine those elections-

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:38

      Oh, my god. Right.

   7. TGTulsi Gabbard4:38

      ... with the checks and balances.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:40

      Right.

   9. TGTulsi Gabbard4:40

      Right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Right. Lin- like when Washington... Imagine if we found out-

   11. TGTulsi Gabbard4:43

       Makes you wonder.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:43

       ... that Washington stole the election.

   13. NANarrator4:44

       (laughs)

   14. TGTulsi Gabbard4:45

       Right? It, it's funny, right? What if he votes here and there?

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:49

       It is funny. It is funny.

   16. NANarrator4:50

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       What if we found out Lincoln was a total fraud?

   18. TGTulsi Gabbard4:51

       Thomas Jefferson, right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       Right. They all stole the election. Like, "What?"

   20. TGTulsi Gabbard4:55

       (laughs)

   21. NANarrator4:56

       (laughs)

   22. TGTulsi Gabbard4:56

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       Had people assassinated that voted incorrectly.

   24. NANarrator4:59

       Oh, my gosh.

   25. TGTulsi Gabbard4:59

       It's amazing.

   26. NANarrator5:00

       But Lincoln ran and lost like five times or something, right, before he won?

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       Oh, did he really?

   28. NANarrator5:05

       I don't remember if it's for president or, or when he ran for a different office, but...

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:09

       Back then they would stand in front of the whole town, like on a literal soapbox-

   30. NANarrator5:13

       Mm-hmm.
4. 6:54 – 8:46

   Maui wildfire aftermath: “vacuum of information” and breakdown of basic governance

   1. TGTulsi Gabbard6:54

      Well- well, they- the- the new mayor in, um, in Maui, w- because I was surprised he got in because, um, Victorina was so loyal, kept the pandemic on. He even did that where you gotta reset your vaccination status or whatever. But when I saw Bissen in, he's so smart. I mean, they were talking to, like, "What about social media?" He just, being a judge, right? Or he just looks over and says, "I don't got time for that stuff."

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:19

      Hmm.

   3. TGTulsi Gabbard7:20

      And looks for- you know? (laughs) he just, they're really s- smart speakers and they know what they're doing out there, right? The people in office, you know?

   4. BPBJ Penn7:29

      Y- yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:29

      Well, I mean, Tulsi can speak to that better than anybody, you know?

   6. BPBJ Penn7:32

      I- I don't- I don't know, um, Mayor Biss.

   7. TGTulsi Gabbard7:35

      Yeah.

   8. BPBJ Penn7:35

      I may have met him in passing, uh, but this has been one of the big failures around, uh, the aftermath of the wildfire on Maui, is this total vacuum of- of information from government officials to the people and, uh, in that vacuum, obviously people have all kinds of ideas or theories or this or that, but people were left without any kind of communication from anyone in a position of authority to provide help for days and weeks, and it created massive problems. And so, you know, uh, eh- the immediate line of response needed to come from the county and from the mayor and from their emergency response director, and unfortunately, uh, they did not communicate. They're still not communicating. There's still a huge lack of transparency, and therefore an increasing level of, uh, distrust in any of the- any of the levels of government that should be bending over backward to s- to answer questions and to say, "Hey, here's what we're go- here's what's going on every single day. Here's what we're doing. Here's what we're trying to do. Here's what we're having a hard time doing," whatever the case may be. Um, it- it has just ... I- it's- it's been a major problem from the beginning.

5. 8:46 – 13:14

   Preparedness failures and why help was blocked from reaching communities

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:46

      D- do- do you think that this is a complete lack, because of a complete lack of preparedness, that this is an unprecedented type of disaster, never happened before. It happens and they just weren't prepared, they don't know what to do, and they just ... it's incompetence?

   2. BPBJ Penn9:00

      I think that- that is very true. Um, and there's, you know, in hindsight there are things going back as, you know, Maui has experienced drought year after year after year. Brush fires are a common occurrence, especially on the west side of Maui, uh, where Lahaina is, the- the- the side of the island that was most- most impacted by this. Um, you know, it is, you know ... Being prepared for wildfires on Maui is something that if you look at their, you know, emergency assessment documents, uh, it's mentioned almost as- as a bit of an afterthought. Maui Fire has been vastly undermanned and under-resourced for quite some time. So there's all these different things you can look at from a preparedness level that- that should have been addressed long before, but from, uh, you know, the- you know, the county officials, uh, yes, they were completely overwhelmed and unprepared, uh, for this unprecedented wildfire. It's the worst wildfire our country has seen in over 100 years. Uh, but the problem is once you get to that point, like, "Oh, shit, this is really, really, really bad," not only in- in the hundreds of lives lost in that fire, but the surrounding communities of people who- who survived, but who went without power, who went without any cell phone signal, any ability to communicate with people, who didn't ha- You know, all of the gas stations in their neighborhood, they were empty. There was no way to get gas. They couldn't get food. They couldn't get clean water. The water, uh, supply systems were contaminated. I mean, all of ... There- there was disaster upon disaster that came in the aftermath of the fire that went unaddressed. And my biggest ... I- I w- I went there a few days after, uh, the fire happened. Maui was my district for eight years when I served in Congress, and, uh, had a lot of friends there, and went out to those affected communities. And what I heard over and over again was no one from the county, the state, or the federal government has shown their face in our community. It is neighbors helping neighbors, families helping families. People on the island of Molokai, which, you know, they- they don't have much on their island. Everything comes in by barge. They're loading up whatever they have in their general store on these little boats and- and running them over to West Maui on a private boat dock, 'cause that was the only place that they wouldn't be blocked from bringing food and water and medical supplies.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:27

      Now why are people being blocked? I keep hearing that about people being blocked. Is it because they haven't gotten an accurate death count? Is it because they have to make an assessment of how much was damaged and it's so ma- massive, it's so vast that they haven't been able to do that yet? Like, why is it being blocked?

   4. BPBJ Penn11:43

      I think things are ... Things ... So things are being opened up now. I think people are able to- to get in and out of the West Maui area. I understand that the- the historic town of Lahaina, uh, is still being blocked off and they're- they are working on reopening it, um, as we speak. But in the- in the couple of weeks after the fire ...I don't have a good answer why they continue to block the roads, again, to those surrounding communities. Why they had, why they blocked people like Kai Lenny and others from using their jet skis and boats to try to bring supplies in through the water. Um, you could say, "Well, we want, we were trying to secure the area." But you're blocking, you're blocking friends and family from coming in and bringing necessary supplies, literally doing supply runs. So, you know, I- I jumped on a, a plane that was doing supply runs from Kahului, the main airport on Maui, uh, out to this tiny little airport, um, uh, that serves that community, and that was, for a lot of days, the only way that they could get supplies, uh, brought in. I don't know. I- I really don't know. But again, this goes back to, why aren't you communicating to people what's going on and why you're doing what you're doing? All, all ... The result of their decisions left people and families and communities stranded in their most dire time of need. And the mayor didn't go out and show his face until almost two weeks after the fire happened.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:12

      That's insane.

   6. BPBJ Penn13:13

      It's crazy.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:14

      Very insane.

6. 13:14 – 15:26

   Land seizure fears after tragedy: the governor’s comments and generational property rights

   1. TGTulsi Gabbard13:14

      And then says, he, he wants to take the land for the state. That's his first order.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:18

      Now, this is one of the reasons-

   3. BPBJ Penn13:18

      I think the governor says that.

   4. TGTulsi Gabbard13:19

      Yeah, the governor, sorry.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:20

      This is one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about this. Like, how is that possible, that these people could lose their home and then lose their land? Like, how is that possible?

   6. BPBJ Penn13:28

      It, it is, it is the number one concern of people there, uh, in Lahaina, is that a few days after this happened, I haven't spoken to the governor, but he said in a press conference, he said, "We're talking to the attorney general." He said, "I'm talking to my attorney general to explore options for the state to take over that land and use it to build workforce housing or build a memorial to the li- for, for the people-"

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:53

      That sounds so insane.

   8. BPBJ Penn13:53

      "... who lost their lives."

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:54

      Yeah.

   10. BPBJ Penn13:54

       But the fears that the people in Lahaina have, some of whom, like Archie Kalepa, famous surfer, community leader, native Hawaiian leader, his family has lived in Lahaina for nine generations, now being told, well, the state, the governor is looking at taking that land, taking ownership of that land. That ... It, it is unconscionable. And they're, "Oh, you know, we'll, we'll ... You know, for those who have been displaced, we'll see about doing a land swap, and we'll send you to the Big Island to live in Puna."

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       Jesus.

   12. BPBJ Penn14:25

       It's ... Taking away the sovereignty of people's rights to have a say over their home, in many cases their generational lands, is, is, uh, it, it is such an abuse of power. And so this is... And I'm, I'm, I'm glad that there are leaders in the community who are leaning into this fight to make sure that they are fighting this fight before anybody tries to do that, rather than looking in the rearview mirror and saying, "Gosh, I wish we had done something."

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:54

       But just imagine a governor going on television after a massive tragedy, where you have ... We don't even know the number of people dead yet. You have this massive area that's been burnt to the ground.

   14. BPBJ Penn15:08

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:08

       And then he starts talking about taking it over for, for the state. That's an insane position to take-

   16. BPBJ Penn15:13

       It is.

   17. TGTulsi Gabbard15:14

       Ye-

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:14

       ... post-tragedy.

   19. BPBJ Penn15:15

       When I-

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:15

       When people are suffering at their most.

   21. BPBJ Penn15:17

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:17

       They can't even believe it happened.

   23. BPBJ Penn15:18

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:19

       And then all of a sudden, he's saying, "We're gonna take it for the state and make a memorial."

   25. BPBJ Penn15:23

       Mm-hmm.

   26. TGTulsi Gabbard15:23

       No.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:23

       How about give the fucking people their homes back?

   28. BPBJ Penn15:26

       Exactly. Exactly, yeah.

7. 15:26 – 23:16

   Ukraine funding vs. Maui relief: priorities, incentives, and the $700 FEMA payment

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:26

      You know, one of the things we went over yesterday, which is a crazy number, we were looking at the amount of money that was accidentally sent to Ukraine. Like, they- they- they-

   2. BPBJ Penn15:35

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:35

      ... over-sent 6 billion.

   4. TGTulsi Gabbard15:37

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:38

      And then I said, "Well, how much would it cost to rebuild every house-"

   6. TGTulsi Gabbard15:41

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:41

      "... in the Maui fire?" And it's 5 billion.

   8. TGTulsi Gabbard15:43

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:43

      5 billion something.

   10. BPBJ Penn15:44

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       Like, they ... That's just, like, accidental money, but there's no talk of doing that.

   12. BPBJ Penn15:50

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       There's no talk of doing that. Isn't that interesting?

   14. BPBJ Penn15:52

       And there's a way, the way ... And it has, it's happened two or three times now, where the Pentagon has said, "Oh, we miscalculated how much money we had set aside for Ukraine, so we have an extra 4 billion to send now that we didn't know we had." And this has happened a few times. Secretary of State Tony Blinken went to Kiev yesterday, promising, "Hey, we're gonna give you another billion now." And this is the thing. When I was out there in Maui, person after person was like, "Tulsi, tell me what would happen if we started to call ourselves Ukraine. You think they would give us some money then?"

   15. TGTulsi Gabbard16:26

       Hmm.

   16. BPBJ Penn16:27

       "To take care of our families?"

   17. TGTulsi Gabbard16:28

       (laughs)

   18. BPBJ Penn16:28

       "To put, to fix our roofs, you know-"

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:31

       Yeah.

   20. BPBJ Penn16:31

       "... that, that have been torn up by the hurricane winds that came through? To make sure we have clean water to drink? You think they might pay attention to us then?" And then the, and then FEMA comes out. The FEMA director comes out and does this press conference. I think it was at the White House. And she says, w- somebody said, "Well, what are you doing for Maui?" She's like, "Oh. We're giving a one-time $700 payment to everybody who's been impacted by the wildfire." A one-time $700 payment.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       It's insane.

   22. BPBJ Penn16:58

       Hawaii has the highest cost of living in the entire country. The entire country. And how fricking insulting is it to have the represe- the lead disaster response administrator from the Biden administration stand there and proudly say, "Hey, we're giving everybody one $700 payment"?

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:17

       It's insane. And it's insane especially because of how much money we're sending to Ukraine.

   24. BPBJ Penn17:23

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       Because there's, there can be no doubt that these things are financially motivated now.

   26. TGTulsi Gabbard17:30

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       That someone is making money off the Ukraine thing.

   28. TGTulsi Gabbard17:33

       Yeah.

   29. BPBJ Penn17:33

       Yes, well, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       And there's a reason they're sending so much money.
8. 23:16 – 29:54

   East Palestine derailment as a case study in forgetting domestic crises

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:16

      And it's 'cause they can get away with it. Here, here's a thing that people forgot about. Ready? East Palestine.

   2. BPBJ Penn23:22

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:23

      Remember? That wasn't that long ago.

   4. BPBJ Penn23:24

      Yeah.

   5. TGTulsi Gabbard23:24

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:24

      That was not that long ago that these people were living in toxic soup.

   7. BPBJ Penn23:28

      No.

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:28

      Everybody's completely forgotten about them. There's no stories on TV. There's no stories in the newspaper. What about that community of people that experienced an insane experience? A train derails with toxic chemicals, and they decide to light it all on fire.

   9. TGTulsi Gabbard23:43

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       And fish are fucking floating-

   11. TGTulsi Gabbard23:45

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:45

       ... in the rivers. The skies are black.

   13. TGTulsi Gabbard23:48

       Mm-hmm.

   14. BPBJ Penn23:50

       So, President Biden was asked about this the other day by a reporter who said, uh-

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:54

       Oh, good.

   16. BPBJ Penn23:56

       The you go-

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:56

       "President will go to East Palestine." "Oh, he will?" Jean-Pierre, that lady.

   18. BPBJ Penn24:00

       Yes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:00

       She's hilarious. Oh my God.

   20. TGTulsi Gabbard24:03

       (laughs)

   21. BPBJ Penn24:03

       What, what he, what, the way he responded to the reporter who asked is they said, "Oh, it's been 200 and however many days since the disaster in East Palestine. You promised that you would go there. Uh, you haven't gone yet. Why?" And the president basically said, "Well, I haven't had time."

   22. JRJoe Rogan24:20

       Wow.

   23. BPBJ Penn24:21

       When I, when I went to East Palestine, I, m- my, I got involved with politics in Hawaii in the first place because of, uh, water. Protecting the environm- making sure we have clean water. And so, the challenges people on Maui are facing with water, the challenges people in East Palestine are facing. It, it, it was such a huge toxic disaster, but when I was there, they were saying the, the effects of this disaster won't fully be known for a while because the toxins at that time hadn't had... They were being told, "The water's clean. It's fine. It's safe," in the days after the disaster in East Palestine. People there are smart enough to know, well, the water hasn't seeped down through the soil and into our groundwater sources for those tests to be accurate. And so they were concerned not only about, well, how's, are you gonna come back and test our water in a month? In two months? In six months? In a year? How is that? It's a farming community out there.

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       True.

   25. BPBJ Penn25:15

       How is that going to affect the crops? They were already seeing animals dying-

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:20

       Ugh.

   27. BPBJ Penn25:20

       ... in the weeks after that disaster happened, and, and that was their foremost concern is nobody ever heard the name East Palestine before this disaster happened. Will they still remember us when we need them?

   28. TGTulsi Gabbard25:32

       Oh, yep.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:32

       And what about what's happening with their lungs?

   30. BPBJ Penn25:35

       Right.
9. 29:54 – 33:16

   Maui emergency response specifics: missing leadership, delays, and the siren controversy

   1. BPBJ Penn29:54

      It's inexc- it's, it is, it is inexcusable.There's, there's no-

   2. JRJoe Rogan29:58

      He must have just-

   3. BPBJ Penn29:58

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan29:58

      ... been panicking.

   5. TGTulsi Gabbard29:59

      Well, you'd have to think. I mean, you're the governor. You leave. The first thing you're goin'... You know a hurricane's coming. Get your emergency team ready. Right? Why wasn't the emergency team ready to go? And...

   6. BPBJ Penn30:12

      Well, you know, the county... The, the, the head of emergency response for Maui County was on Oahu at a FEMA conference when this happened.

   7. TGTulsi Gabbard30:18

      At a happy hour, you know?

   8. BPBJ Penn30:20

      Why, why didn't he imme- Like, y- we all know, you can get on a plane within 30 minutes-

   9. TGTulsi Gabbard30:25

      Yeah.

   10. BPBJ Penn30:25

       ... to fly from Honolulu to Kahului and be there within an hour, hour and a half. Uh, he didn't show up there until the, you know, one or two days after. And when the mayor was asked, "Mr. Mayor..." This was, you know, a couple of weeks after. A reporter said, "Who was, who was directing the response? Your emergency management guy was not there. Who was the person making decisions in the hours after the wildfire?" The mayor said, "I don't know."

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       (Poof sound with mouth) .

   12. BPBJ Penn30:53

       "I don't know."

   13. TGTulsi Gabbard30:53

       And, and how... What about the guy signin- sounding the alarm? Now, he, he re- he resigns.

   14. BPBJ Penn30:59

       Well, first-

   15. TGTulsi Gabbard30:59

       Does that mean he's not gonna be criminally charged for criminal negligence, and-

   16. BPBJ Penn31:04

       Yeah.

   17. TGTulsi Gabbard31:04

       What... I mean, you're talking a-

   18. BPBJ Penn31:05

       I mean-

   19. TGTulsi Gabbard31:05

       ... thousand people.

   20. BPBJ Penn31:06

       He, the guy who was on Oahu-

   21. TGTulsi Gabbard31:08

       Mm-hmm.

   22. BPBJ Penn31:08

       ... when the, when the fires happened, he didn't show his face in public, to the media, or to the c- or to the community, until eight or nine days after the crisis. The guy who should've been talking to the media every single day, in the hours and days after. He didn't show his face in public until day eight or nine, and that was when he said that he didn't regret sounding the alarm-

   23. TGTulsi Gabbard31:31

       That's crazy.

   24. BPBJ Penn31:31

       ... system.

   25. TGTulsi Gabbard31:32

       Yeah.

   26. BPBJ Penn31:32

       Which is a whole other, like... His response made no sense whatsoever, and then he resigned-

   27. TGTulsi Gabbard31:36

       Do you know him-

   28. BPBJ Penn31:37

       ... the day after.

   29. TGTulsi Gabbard31:37

       ... personally?

   30. BPBJ Penn31:38

       I don't.
10. 33:16 – 38:52

    Water as root cause: plantation-era diversion, modern scarcity, and firefighting failures

    1. JRJoe Rogan33:16

       So what happened with the water? There was also some controversy about the water not being utilized?

    2. TGTulsi Gabbard33:21

       The, the... I think the power went down, and, and then the water pumps went down, from what I... Right? Is that-

    3. BPBJ Penn33:27

       There... So the, the power did go out for a little while. According to the electric company, the power was restored, uh, and was not connected to, to the water, um-

    4. TGTulsi Gabbard33:38

       So you got this-

    5. BPBJ Penn33:38

       ... released. But, I mean, the, the long... The, the short answer to the long history of water, um, battles on, in Maui County is, is going back to the plantation days when corporations essentially took ownership of the water. So, you know, it's... The, the native Hawaiian system of the ahupua'a is you have the mountains, rainfall comes, streams. You have this natural ecosystem of waterways that go from the top of the mountains out to the ocean. And Hawaii's agriculture systems and wetlands and fish ponds, everything was built around that. These corporations came in, took over, and to- literally took ownership of the water on Maui, in many, not all of it but most of it, and started diverting those streams, uh, so that the water fed directly into their lands. Plantations, and then ag land, and then now very wealthy landowners, uh, golf courses, resorts, et cetera. But the effect of that was places like Lahaina, that was traditionally a wetland. It was, it was called the Venice of, of Maui. Uh, it was lush. There were fish ponds, and, and farms, and all of this stuff. Because of that water diversion, it's like a desert there now, which is why these wildfires keep happening. And traditional farming communities and native Hawaiian lands were, were bled dry because the water was diverted to private corporations. So fast forward to how did that impact the fires-

    6. JRJoe Rogan35:07

       Wait, s- sorry, what year did that happen? Around-

    7. BPBJ Penn35:09

       I mean this was, um-

    8. TGTulsi Gabbard35:11

       1800s, 1850s.

    9. BPBJ Penn35:13

       Yeah, yeah. This was, yeah. But, but the-

    10. TGTulsi Gabbard35:15

        The big five, the Hui Nui, the big five you're talking about.

    11. BPBJ Penn35:17

        Yeah, exactly. The big five plantation owners that came in. Um, but the problem has compounded generation after generation after generation. And, uh, so, so firefighters didn't have access to water when they needed it, uh, to, to effectively, um, try to fight these fires. There was a hurricane winds, and so obviously it, it grew and spread like a blowtorch across the town of Lahaina. But even in the other, you know, in up country Maui in Kula, uh, when I went up and talked to some of the, the residents up there who also saw, um, I don't know, it was like almost 600 acres that were burned through. Um-Homes were burned down and they were trying to help each other. Neighbors were trying to help each other, 'cause you see, okay, hey, there's fires starting. Let's all get our hoses and turn on the water and try to do what we can until the firefighters get here. They turned on their hoses and it was just like-

    12. TGTulsi Gabbard36:15

        Nothing, huh?

    13. BPBJ Penn36:15

        ... dribbles.

    14. TGTulsi Gabbard36:16

        Yeah.

    15. BPBJ Penn36:16

        Dribbles of water. And so literally-

    16. TGTulsi Gabbard36:19

        (laughs)

    17. BPBJ Penn36:19

        ... they're going and, like, scooping water out of their-

    18. TGTulsi Gabbard36:22

        Fuck.

    19. BPBJ Penn36:22

        ... toilet bowls and, like, "Oh, gosh. There's a little bit of water, like, from the last time it rained stuck in, like, our kid's bucket." Like, literally getting water from where every- th- bottles of water, trying to fight fires in their community to save people's homes.

    20. TGTulsi Gabbard36:37

        And watching pe-

    21. BPBJ Penn36:37

        (sighs)

    22. TGTulsi Gabbard36:37

        ... and watching people dying while that's happening, watching children burn. I was talking to my friend. He was a big part of my campaign, the last campaign. He said, "Hey, BJ, children, animals burning. You trying to fight it with water that you don't have?"

    23. BPBJ Penn36:52

        (inhales deeply)

    24. TGTulsi Gabbard36:52

        I mean, you just, so many-

    25. BPBJ Penn36:54

        And so there was a request-

    26. TGTulsi Gabbard36:55

        ... coincidences, right? It's-

    27. BPBJ Penn36:55

        There was a request that was put into the state to, to, uh, divert the water so that it could be used, uh, to fight the fires. And, uh, there was some kind of, like, six or eight-hour delay before that decision was made. And I don't know the answer yet as to what that delay was. Uh, but the fact that, the fact that the people of Maui don't have control over their own water is, is exactly the problem, both in this crisis, but on a daily basis, where families are told, "Hey, you know, county-wide, there's a drought right now. Everybody needs to conserve water. You know, you gotta be limited with don't wash your car and all this other stuff." But meanwhile, they go and drive through one of these resorts and they see all the sprinklers on-

    28. TGTulsi Gabbard37:50

        Yeah. (laughs)

    29. BPBJ Penn37:50

        ... for the golf courses, and they see no restrictions whatsoever in, uh, in the hotels. And it's no wonder why people there are like, "What the heck is going on here?" You guys, you guys really only care about these resorts, but you don't actually care about the fact that, uh, a mother can't bathe her child because of the water restrictions.

    30. TGTulsi Gabbard38:13

        It's insane.
11. 38:52 – 45:34

    Food independence, land control anxieties, and “electric city” skepticism

    1. TGTulsi Gabbard38:52

       And this is big, this is big on the Big Island, um, the whole Hamakua Coast. Uh, there are senators, state senators and everything, every day diverting their, these, uh, streams. They, they're, they're pretty good size. We call 'em rivers, but they're, I think, the, the tech- the technical name, they're streams, you know? 'Cause I don't think there's too many rivers like Mississippi-

    2. BPBJ Penn39:15

       Yeah.

    3. TGTulsi Gabbard39:15

       ... or nothing. That's a river. But, uh, we gotta maybe just on that Hamakua Coast, we got 70 rivers. It's 50 miles, and they just keep diverting 'em on the top. But even more, even more eye-catching is when you're driving down the road Hamakua Coast, the most beautiful, green place in the world with 70 rivers. I live right on there on Hamakua Coast, and you can't jump in the car without asking yourself, "How many trees, how many worthless, crappy trees can I count before I count one tree with food?"

    4. BPBJ Penn39:47

       Hmm.

    5. TGTulsi Gabbard39:47

       Not one tree with food. And you j- you can only sit there and think, "That's not an accident. That's not an accident that there's no food anywhere on this 50 miles that you would have to walk back to Hilo or walk all the way to Honoka'a City or Honoka'a Town to go get some food." And, you know, I, I, it's a law actually in Hawaii that you cannot put any of, uh, trees with fruit on, on it anywhere. And it just makes you wonder.

    6. JRJoe Rogan40:17

       What?

    7. TGTulsi Gabbard40:17

       It just makes you wonder that-

    8. JRJoe Rogan40:19

       What's the law?

    9. TGTulsi Gabbard40:19

       ... you know, you, you can't put tree, you can't put trees with fruit on public lands, trees with fruit on-

    10. BPBJ Penn40:25

        I didn't know that.

    11. TGTulsi Gabbard40:26

        And, and, uh-

    12. JRJoe Rogan40:27

        (laughs) Why?

    13. TGTulsi Gabbard40:29

        And I-

    14. JRJoe Rogan40:29

        Why would they have that-

    15. TGTulsi Gabbard40:29

        No, but that's everywhere, but look over here. Look at all the trees you see. Why isn't there food? Because they rather push stuff like social classes, stuff like the EBT card and these different things. Why is there no food on any of the trees? Just think about it in your head. Take a drive down the road and say, "I'm, today I'm gonna count how many trees I count before I see one tree with food." Will you see one tree with food? You know, and, and that's what I, I've, I've been talking about. I mean, I talk about that all the time. And it's, you know, it's, it's to push these things. It's, they... It's almost like they start eradicating all the pigs, eradicating the cows, 'cause you see 'em. You see the wild cows, the wild pigs all the time on the Big Island. And they start eradicating those things, and it's almost like, I'd hate to think that they were, it's like they want us to compete f- only for the food that comes in on the boat. That's the only food they want, like The Hunger Games. You guys-

    16. JRJoe Rogan41:24

        Hmm.

    17. TGTulsi Gabbard41:24

        ... like all, all 1.5 million of you are gonna compete for the food on the boat. This little-

    18. JRJoe Rogan41:28

        Well, the wild pig thing is interesting 'cause the wild pig thing is big in Texas too, and it's really just about eradicating them because they destroy all the, a- all the farmlands. Like, they, they destroy the crops.

    19. TGTulsi Gabbard41:41

        Oh, yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan41:41

        And they, they make so many babies. Like, pigs have th- pigs start their first litter at six months, and then they'll have, you know, as many as, like, 12 babies in a litter, and they'll have three litters a year. And they just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

    21. TGTulsi Gabbard41:55

        And, and it is-

    22. JRJoe Rogan41:56

        And then they just start destroying crops.

    23. TGTulsi Gabbard41:57

        It, it's like the same thing that, uh, I said when I was in Molokai when we were, when we were campaigning and I said, "They say..."... that you guys have a deer problem. But how is unlimited food a problem?

    24. JRJoe Rogan42:09

        Right.

    25. TGTulsi Gabbard42:10

        I wanna know. How is unlimited food a problem? And I understand you gotta fence off or you do your different things, or maybe they can corral all these animals and do different things with them. But we have to, we have to start thinking of ways... They talk about sustainability, but the way they talk about sustainability, they wanna do it with electric cities. You know? They wanna make these electric cities. They just passed it in Hilo, and, uh, they're, they said Hilo was one of the lucky people to pass one of these United Nations electric cities in, in Hilo. And, but it makes me wonder, to the mayor who, who let it go, uh, Mr., Mr. Roth, who I actually know personally, but what... You know, are you the mayor of the UN or are we gonna make our Hilo cities over here? I mean, you hear all the time, in 1800... It took all the way to 1800 to get one billion people. And in 1800, we started using coal and oil and fossil fuels, and then we jumped to 200 people within that time. So we jumped seven billion within the time of 200 years, right? So, you know, what... So you'd have to just think, well, if Ige signed a bill that we can't burn coal anymore in Hawaii, and... (sips) And oil, oil, we're still using gasoline, but they wanna push these electric cities now with electric cars and all these things. But you would just have to think, if it... Oil and coal made this much people, what's this gonna do? 'Cause we're not gonna have enough electricity or, you know, we're, we're not there yet now.

    26. JRJoe Rogan43:45

        Well, it's not just that.

    27. TGTulsi Gabbard43:46

        But is it, is it a-

    28. JRJoe Rogan43:47

        What they're doing in Oregon, you know what they're doing in Oregon? They're, they're making people... I think it's one other state too. They're gonna have these GPS devices they attach to your electric car, so it taxes you for the amount of electricity that you use.

    29. BPBJ Penn44:01

        Oh my gosh.

    30. JRJoe Rogan44:02

        So for every mile that you go, you have to pay a certain carbon tax, because electricity is being generated by something that generates carbon.
12. 45:34 – 53:41

    15-minute cities and carbon tracking: convenience concept vs. surveillance/control fears

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       Well, there's also this talk of 15-mile cities, right?

    2. TGTulsi Gabbard45:37

       Yeah, tell me about those.

    3. JRJoe Rogan45:38

       Or 15-minute cities.

    4. TGTulsi Gabbard45:38

       I don't know much about them.

    5. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       The idea is that you'll essentially be contained-

    6. TGTulsi Gabbard45:40

       That's what this city is. That's what this city is, but-

    7. JRJoe Rogan45:43

       You'll essentially be contained unless you get permission to leave.

    8. TGTulsi Gabbard45:47

       That's true? Really?

    9. JRJoe Rogan45:47

       Which is-

    10. TGTulsi Gabbard45:48

        How are they gonna put us in there?

    11. JRJoe Rogan45:49

        ... yeah, that's the, the idea they're ch- they're starting to roll out in Europe.

    12. BPBJ Penn45:52

        Oh, okay.

    13. JRJoe Rogan45:52

        They're, they're talking about... I think they've already implemented-

    14. TGTulsi Gabbard45:54

        But-

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:54

        ... this somewhere.

    16. TGTulsi Gabbard45:55

        Well, you would, you would think-

    17. JRJoe Rogan45:56

        But the-

    18. TGTulsi Gabbard45:56

        You would think, well, I'm just thinking about Lahaina when you're talking about this, because you would think, "Well, how are they gonna put us on that land of these 15-minute cities?" But then you would think, "Well, how are they gonna get us off our land?" But they just have. In Lahaina, they just got these people off their land. And if you go-

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:10

        Well, they're talking about it. They haven't done it yet.

    20. TGTulsi Gabbard46:12

        No, no, no. I mean-

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:13

        Right?

    22. TGTulsi Gabbard46:13

        ... they can't, they cannot go on their land now, because-

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:16

        Right.

    24. TGTulsi Gabbard46:16

        ... there, there's a, there's a 80-year-old fella, and he, he wants to... His house burned down and his safe is in there, and he wants to go check on his safe, but he can't get in. He can't get in the property. And you know, I-

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:28

        Right, but we're assuming eventually he can get in. Right? They haven't kicked the people off their land yet.

    26. TGTulsi Gabbard46:32

        But, well, if, if FEMA doesn't st-

    27. BPBJ Penn46:33

        No, they haven't.

    28. TGTulsi Gabbard46:33

        If FEMA doesn't steal his safe first or whoever is working or any workers-

    29. JRJoe Rogan46:38

        Yeah.

    30. TGTulsi Gabbard46:38

        ... and that kind of stuff, if everything doesn't disappear.
13. 53:41 – 1:04:12

    Climate-policy hypocrisy, Big Tech censorship, and shadowbanning mechanisms

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:41

       So you'll have some sort of an app, and we have to really fight against this. If you, you're gonna have an app that shows your carbon footprint. Now what's really ironic is when you have guys like (laughs) Bill Gates who owns four private jets-

    2. TGTulsi Gabbard53:54

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan53:54

       ... well just one of those jets, in one day, spews out more carbon than your car does in y- the whole fucking life you use it.

    4. TGTulsi Gabbard54:02

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:03

       And this guy's flying all over the place-

    6. TGTulsi Gabbard54:04

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:04

       ... telling everybody that they're gonna have to eat fake meat.

    8. TGTulsi Gabbard54:06

       But, that's like the ultimate elitism when you look at, uh, people like Bill Gates. You look at people like John Kerry-

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:12

       Yeah.

    10. TGTulsi Gabbard54:13

        ... who justify their own-

    11. NANarrator54:15

        Yeah.

    12. TGTulsi Gabbard54:15

        ... uh, contradiction of their philosophies-

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:18

        I don't know when he got busted.

    14. TGTulsi Gabbard54:18

        I know, exactly.

    15. JRJoe Rogan54:19

        When he got busted and he lied-

    16. NANarrator54:20

        Who?

    17. TGTulsi Gabbard54:20

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan54:20

        John Kerry.

    19. NANarrator54:21

        John Kerry? Have you, did you see that video? When'd he get busted for?

    20. JRJoe Rogan54:23

        Well, because he was saying that I've never had a private jet. I don't own a private jet.

    21. NANarrator54:27

        (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan54:27

        Have you ever seen that?

    23. TGTulsi Gabbard54:28

        Oh my God.

    24. JRJoe Rogan54:28

        Have you seen this? You have to see this.

    25. TGTulsi Gabbard54:30

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan54:30

        Jamie, get, pull that video up, 'cause it's hilarious. He's just flat out lying.

    27. BPBJ Penn54:37

        A-

    28. JRJoe Rogan54:37

        And they think-

    29. BPBJ Penn54:38

        ...solutely lying.

    30. JRJoe Rogan54:38

        ... they think we're so stupid that we're gonna just buy their bold-faced lies.
14. 1:04:12 – 1:17:39

    UN ‘consent’ language debate: ambiguity, normalization fears, and power dynamics with minors

    1. BPBJ Penn1:04:12

       And every one of their policies is the kind of stuff that somebody like Governor Green follows. He follows... I mean, from what I've seen.

    2. NANarrator1:04:19

       But that's insane. Well... That's insane. All the politicians and... They push... It's like, that's how you get to the next level, like you were talk... You wanna be the best, you wanna get to the next level.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:04:30

       Right.

    4. NANarrator1:04:30

       Do what the UN is, is saying to do. That's where all the money is. The AP claim says.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:04:35

       "Claim: A new United Nations report calls for decriminalizing sexual activity between adults and minors. AP's assessment: False. Report published in March by the International Commission of Jurists in collaboration with the UN's AIDS agency called for enforcing minimum age of consent laws in a non-discriminatory manner. It did not call for decriminalizing all sexual activity between minors and adults. Spokespersons for the UN and the commission confirmed." The facts: The claim began when an April 14 blog post entitled "UN report calls for decriminalati- decriminalization of all sexual activity, including between adults and children," which cited specific passages of a document issued by the International Commission of Jurists in March. The claim quickly circule- circulated across social media platforms, including on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok." Is that it? Does it show the actual... What, what actually the UN said?

    6. NANarrator1:05:25

       No, no. It's not shows on this website.

    7. BPBJ Penn1:05:26

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:27

       Oh. Well, that's not enough.

    9. BPBJ Penn1:05:27

       Which I think it's interesting. I mean, I, I'm seeing a lot of parsing of words there.

    10. NANarrator1:05:31

        It's like the bridge, the bridge between it.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:05:33

        But I would like to know what they did say that would even...

    12. NANarrator1:05:36

        Let's see it.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:05:37

        That would even allow people to believe...

    14. NANarrator1:05:40

        That they said that.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:05:41

        That they said that. That seems just insane as it is. The problem with Googling this-

    16. NANarrator1:05:49

        I know. It's why I got to go through all sorts of websites-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:05:51

        Yeah.

    18. BPBJ Penn1:05:51

        DuckDuckGo.

    19. NANarrator1:05:51

        ... that are already there to debunk it.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:52

        Yeah.

    21. NANarrator1:05:52

        And now I'll find out where he found it.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:53

        Well, yeah, you got to go to DuckDuckGo. Try this in DuckDuckGo.

    23. NANarrator1:05:57

        That's not gonna help.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:57

        Well, it won't be curated, Jamie. And that's what's important.

    25. NANarrator1:06:01

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:03

        When you, when you get to things that are curated, it gets, it gets me uncomfortable.

    27. NANarrator1:06:08

        The very first things that come up are the same.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:09

        You have... Yes. Well, that's good. That means it's probably not true. Let's find out if it is true. Fact check, post misrepresents, post... What is... Okay, so scroll down to that one, "New UN report advocates for decriminalizing sex with minors." So this is one of those websites. This is from April 16th.Okay. What does it say? Principle 16, titled Consensual Sexual Conduct, reads, "Consensual sexual conduct, irrespective of the type of sexual activity, the sex, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression of the people involved, or their marital status, may not be criminalized in any circumstances. Consensual same-sex, as well as consensual different-sex sexual relations or consensual sex relations with or between trans, non-binary, or other gender-diverse people or outside marriage, whether pre-marital or extra-marital, may therefore never be criminalized. With respect to the enforcement of criminal law, any prescribed minimum age of consent to sex must be applied in a non-discriminatory manner. Enforcement may not be linked to the sex, gender of the participants, or age of consent to marriage. Moreover, sexual conduc- conduct involving persons below the domestically prescribed minimum age of consent to sex may be consensual in fact, if not in law. In this context, the enforcement of criminal law should reflect the rights and capacities of persons under 18 years of age to make decisions about engaging in consensual sexual conduct, and their right to be heard in matters concerning them. Pursuant to their evolving capa- capacities and progressive autonomy, persons under 18 years of age should participate in decisions affecting them with due regard to their age, maturity, and best interests, and with specific attention to non-discrimination guarantees." Now, that to me could be interpreted as, like you say, that 16-year-old people should be allowed to have sex with other 16-year-old people, which doesn't necessarily... You know what I'm saying? Like that-

    29. BPBJ Penn1:08:28

        But, but the thing is-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:08:28

        ... they're not saying older people are allowed to have sex with younger people.

Episode duration: 2:26:08