Joe Rogan Experience #2034 - Jeremy Jones

Jeremy Jones 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Jeremy Jones, what's happening, baby?

Jeremy Jones 0:14 Not much, not much.

Joe Rogan 0:15 We finally did this.

Jeremy Jones 0:16 Trying to r- yeah, trying to run out, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:17 Yeah, man, uh, playing you was a very humbling experience. I should tell everybody, Jeremy Jones, professional pool player, um, the team captain of the Mosconi Cup, which is the most prestigious international team tournament in all the world of pool. But, what, what I r- really enjoyed about talking with you for the last couple days is you're just- you're a very smart guy, very interesting guy. There's a lot of, y- you know, like, a lot of interests in all kinds of different things. You're a very fascinating guy.

Jeremy Jones 0:45 Y-

Joe Rogan 0:45 That's why you're so good at commentary.

Jeremy Jones 0:47 Yeah, I guess so. Maybe just growing up watching all that stuff and, uh, I think my parents, you know, they- they had pretty vast interest, even though maybe didn't afford it all the time to be able to, you know, kinda go with it. But, yeah, number five of six kids, you learn a lot of stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:00 Well, it's just always been fascinating to me, the people that are really good at pool are some of the fucking smartest people I've ever met in my life. There's just- they just got that bug. They got that bug to chase this one thing, geometry and pockets and balls and collisions, and, you know, they got that bug to chase it, but some of the best players that I- I've talked to, they're some of the smartest people I've ever met.

Jeremy Jones 1:23 Oh, absolutely. I mean, that just tells you about the game, right?

Joe Rogan 1:25 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:25 How much there is to it, and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's just- it- it grabs you and- and, you know, if you're watch- paying attention to what goes on, it's, like, hardly ever the same thing.

Joe Rogan 1:35 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:35 You know, you- you don't realize how much control you have. I thought- I thought pool was kinda like a game you played waiting on a bowling alley lane. You know, prior to playing it.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:44 I didn't know you could play it well. I didn't know you could play it for a living. You know, there's movies out there and stuff, but, I mean, ph- it just didn't seem real.

Joe Rogan 1:51 When you- wh- what- how old were you when you first started playing?

Jeremy Jones 1:55 Uh, really playing, 17. I was 17 years old. Yeah, I started late.

Joe Rogan 1:59 I started really late. I was 25, I think. Somewhere around 24. 24 or 25, yeah.

Jeremy Jones 2:07 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I worked two jobs, and one of them, uh, we'd, you know, have a few beers on the weekends at a pizza restaurant and play poker with our money, our tip money, and one of the guys would go to the game room and play pool. And he, uh, took me down there one day and kinda hustled me (laughs) a little bit, you know. We kinda knew each other like that, and, uh, the only thing I wanted to do was be able to beat him, Joe. That's, uh- like, that's what I wanted to do.

Joe Rogan 2:30 Right, right.

Jeremy Jones 2:30 Yeah, and that's- so I quit one of the jobs. I quit the pizza restaurant, went and got a job at the game room so I could play for free, and, uh, you know, kinda the rest is history from there.

Joe Rogan 2:39 Wow. It's a game that just sucks you in. I remember, uh, I used to go and play with my friend John, and we would go to this place, Executive Billiards in White Plains, and, uh, when we got there, you know, it was an interesting time because there was a lot of gambling going on in that place. And the guy- the- the owner was a wild man. The owner of the- the pool hall was this really eccentric musician. Yeah, his name was Guy Azzariti, but he would use the- the name Guy Hamilton when he performed. He was this, uh, musician, like a piano player, g- g- like, really good musician. And he had some money from, you know, his career as a piano player, and he was really into pool. He loved the culture of it. And so he was the owner of this joint, and we were all just hanging out with him, having fun, and I would go there and it would be filled with people gambling. And I was like, "This place is wild." And then I was watching, like, really good players play when I was, you know, just starting out, didn't know what I was doing, and I was like, "That looks so different than anybody else I've ever seen play pool." Like, the way they hit the ball is so soft and they're in such control, and you're watching the ball spin off the cushions and get perfect on the next ball, and everybody's, like, shaking their head, "Wow." I'm like, that- that got me hooked.

Jeremy Jones 3:58 Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 3:59 That- that's what got me.

Jeremy Jones 4:00 Yeah, I think the culture of it is a big- big part of it. I mean-

Joe Rogan 4:02 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 4:03 ... just being able to gamble and not take it personal.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Right.

Jeremy Jones 4:06 You know, like, you hate the casino when you go lose, right?

Joe Rogan 4:09 Right.

Jeremy Jones 4:09 I mean, t- they're like cussing the casino, they're cheating, they're doing this, right? But, I mean, where I was at, we could gamble and then we could hang out.

Joe Rogan 4:17 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 4:17 You know what I mean? And then we're on teams the next day, and we're not on- and, you know, it was so-

Joe Rogan 4:20 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 4:20 That, to me, was pretty fascinating overall, you know.

Joe Rogan 4:23 There's a culture that encourages more gambling, and the best way to encourage more gambling is to not have fisticuffs every time somebody loses. Like, some guys just get too pers- uh, like, it's a natural feeling. The guy just beat you. You feel bad- you're- you're angry at him, but really you should be angry at yourself.

Jeremy Jones 4:37 Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 4:38 You know, and-

Jeremy Jones 4:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:39 And it's just- that's what you're both trying to do. It's an agreement. Like, you- you figure it out.

Jeremy Jones 4:43 Yeah, I mean, you know, you beat a guy, you don't bust his chops too often, right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:46 Right.

Jeremy Jones 4:46 You let him cool off, and then all is good, but, uh ...

Joe Rogan 4:49 Everybody goes back to, like, MacReady's character in The Color of Money, which is- apparently, from what everybody tells me from those days, really- MacReady was probably, like, wilder than that when he was playing.

Jeremy Jones 4:59 No, I think- I've sweated it 100%.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Really?

Jeremy Jones 5:01 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:02 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 5:02 Yeah, I, uh- I, uh, was in with a player playing Keith, and I think they played something like four days or five days with, like, a eight-hour break or 10-hour break in- in the middle.

Joe Rogan 5:13 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 5:14 You know, and if you say- stay there and sweat that kinda pool with those guys, you see stuff that you're just not gonna see, you know what I mean? They get a little rum-dum. They get a little (laughs) agitated, then they're hugging, you know, uh, an hour later.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 5:25 Oh, yeah, it's crazy, yeah, but- but Keith-

Joe Rogan 5:27 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 5:27 ... would definitely, uh, talk a little bit, you know. He liked a little banter.

Joe Rogan 5:31 Those are the craziest legendary sessions when guys just gambled for three straight days in a row, and people think it's bullshit, but that was- that's part of the thing about pool and gambling is nobody wants to quit.

Jeremy Jones 5:43 Oh, no, no, you're trying- I mean, if you're s-

Joe Rogan 5:45 You don't quit when you're up, and if you're down and you still got some fight left in you, this guy might get tired.

Jeremy Jones 5:50 Or money. You know, you might-

Joe Rogan 5:52 Yeah, right.

Jeremy Jones 5:52 You know, I've seen them go through three or four steak courses in a night, and-

Joe Rogan 5:55 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 5:55 You know? But, I mean-

Joe Rogan 5:56 It's wild.

Jeremy Jones 5:57 I- I think you and I were talking about it earlier, it's so much different these days. When I went to the pool room, I was fully rested.... like, 10, 12 hours, 'cause I knew I'm there to beat four or five guys, I'm gonna be there 20, 30 hours.

Joe Rogan 6:09 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 6:10 Yeah. I mean, you know, that's what you want. You wanna put-

Joe Rogan 6:12 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 6:12 ... the parlay on 'em, you know? (laughs) Like-

Joe Rogan 6:14 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 6:14 ... the... You wanna take a s- you know, somewhat small bankroll and try and run it through somebody, so.

Joe Rogan 6:19 That's a fascinating way to live your life. It really is. I've always... I mean, that... I- if outta all of the things if you talk about, like, American folklore, just, like, American culture, all the poetic characters, the, the professional pool player is one of the most interesting, because it is the least guaranteed job that has ever existed.

Jeremy Jones 6:43 Yeah, there's lots of sayings. I think it's the, you know, hard way to make a easy living.

Joe Rogan 6:47 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 6:47 Easy living is one of 'em, right? But, but, uh, I mean, you know, if... I was lucky. I was around some of the old school ones as well, and the charisma is true, you know? Like, if you see genuine charisma, I mean, it's a real thing.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 7:00 And, and that's what the old guys had, that, uh, the young guys have it too, but it's just a little different.

Joe Rogan 7:05 Well, everyone seems... I- it, it's interesting 'cause, uh, it seems like pool is just like every other thing in that the guys today are as good if not better than anybody that's ever existed.

Jeremy Jones 7:17 Oh, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 7:18 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 7:18 And there's more of 'em, that's the problem.

Joe Rogan 7:20 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 7:20 You know?

Joe Rogan 7:20 There's so many of 'em.

Jeremy Jones 7:21 Yeah, exactly, and-

Joe Rogan 7:22 I'm so impressed.

Jeremy Jones 7:24 ... and more common.

Joe Rogan 7:24 Espe- I mean, Europe, Asia, you know, guys from Taiwan, guys from China, guys from Japan, guys from Spain. It's like, whoa. Killers.

Jeremy Jones 7:35 The most, the most global-

Joe Rogan 7:36 Killas.

Jeremy Jones 7:36 ... sport there is, I think.

Joe Rogan 7:38 It's, it's amazing how much talent there is out there. Like, uh, I'm, I'm just so impressed with, uh, how, what the level is now. 'Cause if you... Like, no disrespect to anybody who played back in the day, but if you go back and you watch a tournament from, like, the '80s versus you watch how these guys are playing now, it's, it's almost like it's a completely different game.

Jeremy Jones 7:59 Yeah, I mean, they-

Joe Rogan 8:00 Different style, rather.

Jeremy Jones 8:01 Yeah. The... I think-

Joe Rogan 8:02 It's like-

Jeremy Jones 8:02 ... the equipment allows for that, too, though.

Joe Rogan 8:04 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 8:04 You know what I mean? So...

Joe Rogan 8:05 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 8:06 And the training. I mean, the, the... These guys... You know, you had Fedor Gost. I'm sure y'all talked about his regimen, right?

Joe Rogan 8:12 (smacks lips) He's my p- my perfect example of he's almost playing, like, a totally different style of pool. Like, his style of pool is, like, it's so perfect. Like, his position, the way he stands with his body, the... how rigid it is. It's like people that don't understand that are just seeing a guy just make something look easy, but people that do understand, it's like, "That looks, that's like a work of art." Like, "Look what he's doing."

Jeremy Jones 8:34 Oh, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 8:34 It's like artwork.

Jeremy Jones 8:35 Yeah. He's kinda like, you know, back in the day, you'd kinda... You know, I used to say to a lot of guys that go on the road, "Hey, if, if they don't beat me in the first couple of hours, we're all right." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 8:45 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 8:45 'Cause I'd get better and better and better and he kinda doesn't even look for that. You know, he doesn't even wanna gear. He just has... It's just steady gear the whole-

Joe Rogan 8:54 Yeah. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 8:54 You know what I mean? It's just like-

Joe Rogan 8:55 Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Jones 8:55 ... he's not looking for that rhythm, even though it's there, I guess, a little bit. But he's just a different machine, you know?

Joe Rogan 9:00 Well, he's so well-trained in terms of his fundamentals, and it's all so repeatable. And I think that that exists in martial arts, it exists in archery, and it really exists in pool. If you have really good fundamentals, like, like, that's why a lot of those snooker guys really excel when they try to learn pool. They, their fundamentals, like, their stroke fundamentals are so perfect.

Jeremy Jones 9:21 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they, they, they learn some things as they come over. I mean, they, th-

Joe Rogan 9:25 They hate when you say snoker though, right? Don't, don't they give you a hard time? It's snooker.

Jeremy Jones 9:28 Snooker, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 9:30 Or the, you know, I don't, still don't know why a bank is called a double in snooker. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:34 (laughs) That's like a-

Jeremy Jones 9:34 Just a one-rail bank is called a double, so I m- uh, there's a few of 'em that, that I'm not really sure about, but, you know.

Joe Rogan 9:40 That's a-

Jeremy Jones 9:41 That's-

Joe Rogan 9:41 ... that's an interesting game too.

Jeremy Jones 9:43 Oh, it's a great game. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I th- I think nine ball's a little better looking for today's people. I th- I... You know what I mean? Like, snooker has done really well, and it's got a great following, and it should, but I don't know.

Joe Rogan 9:57 Just, there's nothing like breaking and running down.

Jeremy Jones 9:59 Yeah, the different balls-

Joe Rogan 10:00 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 10:01 ... you know, the, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:01 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 10:01 You feel a little more aggression, I think.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 10:03 You know, which in sports you usually wanna feel that aggression, right? So.

Joe Rogan 10:07 And if you fuck up and leave the nine in front of the hole, it's an easy victory for your opponent. There's something beautiful about luck, the luck aspect in nine ball. Balls bounce all over the place, and when you're down, and then all of a sudden, boom, the guy shits a nine ball in. You're like, "Goddamn it."

Jeremy Jones 10:22 And you can change it around.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 10:23 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 10:24 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 10:24 You can turn things around.

Joe Rogan 10:25 It's such an exciting game, and it never stops being exciting. When it's played at a good level, it's just never stops being exciting. It's, like, it's one of the most engaging physical games that I've ever participated in.

Jeremy Jones 10:36 Yeah, and you would think for a non-contact sport it... The adrenaline gets way up there.

Joe Rogan 10:40 I know.

Jeremy Jones 10:40 I mean, it's, it's pretty intense.

Joe Rogan 10:42 They've done heart rate monitors on guys, right?

Jeremy Jones 10:44 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:45 Yeah. What's, like, the highest anybody got jacked to?

Jeremy Jones 10:46 Oh, my God. Uh, you know, a guy you know, a couple years ago, uh, Max Eberl was trying to make the team, so we traveled to, to Moscow, uh, uh, actually to play, uh, the Russian team. And we put him on there. I think it was Garmin that was the, uh, sponsor or whatever. And Max... I mean, some guys were 130, 125. Max was, like, 180 or 175.

Joe Rogan 11:09 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 11:09 I mean, it was unreal. Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:10 Oh, my God. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 11:11 Yeah, and he, and he couldn't play position at all. It was just one of those things.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Oh, my God.

Jeremy Jones 11:14 But he knocked in every shot.

Joe Rogan 11:16 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 11:16 Ev- I mean, I was super proud of him, yeah. But you could tell-

Joe Rogan 11:20 Fundamentals.

Jeremy Jones 11:20 Yeah, fundamentals, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:20 Fundamentals. Max has picture perfect fundamentals.

Jeremy Jones 11:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real straight stroke.

Joe Rogan 11:24 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 11:24 You know, been around a long time, and, uh, it wa- it was a pretty fun experience for Max. I was happy to see it.

Joe Rogan 11:29 So when you were a kid, and so you start off, um, working in this g- game room-

Jeremy Jones 11:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:34 ... and you l- you learn how to play pool then. Like, how, how long before you're just all in with pool, like, all day long?

Jeremy Jones 11:42 Oh, it didn't take long at all, and, and, uh, I was kinda lucky. Uh, a little unlucky but lucky at the same time, where my parents actually split up for, like, 12, 13 months, right? So during this time, I live with my mom, and there's no chance I woulda ever been a pool player if they didn't split up for that little period of time, right? So my dad just wouldn't have allowed it. And so they got back together, and then I'm graduating high school, getting outta school, so it wasn't really up to him.... but I was pretty much first road trip right out of high school.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Wow. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 12:12 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:13 So, what did you do, and how'd you do it?

Jeremy Jones 12:16 Okay. The road trip?

Joe Rogan 12:17 Yes.

Jeremy Jones 12:17 Okay, so me and my high school buddy, Doug Donovan, then we went and played, uh, we played a lot of pool together. We decided we're gonna do this, and his was more of an experi- uh, experiment kind of thing, you know. He was going on to UT and, you know, doing his thing, and, and, uh... So, we went to New Orleans first. We were gonna go visit my grandparents in Florida. Knew Florida was a good spot. So, we went Florida, we went New Orleans first, Mississippi second, Alabama third. You know, we hit all these spots, you know. And back in the day... Now, I didn't know this as of yet, 'cause it was my first road trip, but on a normal road trip, because no cellphones, right? You'd go to, like, Waffle House when you drive in to get you some food, and you go get the Yellow Pages. And you literally go to where it says "Billiards" in the Yellow Pages, you know? (laughs) And you just start going to the payphone and calling. Uh, and normally the bartender or whoever answers will divulge a little more information than they probably should.

Joe Rogan 13:13 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 13:13 You know, like if the players knew, "Oh, yeah." She's telling them, "Yeah, Joe's a good player. He likes to gamble with nine-ball. This guy likes to play one-pocket," you know. So, you get a lot of information over the phone, and then you just go to those pool rooms and, you know, start trying to get down.

Joe Rogan 13:27 Wow. And how good of a player were you fresh out of high school?

Jeremy Jones 13:30 Well, you know, a year, and I was real lucky. I had, uh, some really good players just kind of like come to the pool room and play me pool and do things with me and show me things, and, and I was a pretty good athlete anyways, so I kind of picked up things quick. Um, but I played good enough to beat them on the way to Florida, Joe. But they were way too smart, and we were way too dumb to stop at the same pool rooms on the way back, 'cause they got us on the way b-... They kinda knew how we played, you know what I mean? Brought some pla-

Joe Rogan 13:59 Uh-huh.

Jeremy Jones 13:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got us on a few gaff games, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:02 Mm.

Jeremy Jones 14:02 So, we kind of went empty on the way home pretty much, but, but it-

Joe Rogan 14:05 Explain a gaff game to the uninitiated.

Jeremy Jones 14:07 (clears throat) So, so a gaff game is kind of like, you know, three-card, right? The shell game, any of those games. You know, you're gonna lose, and even if you're going to pick the right one, they start the, you know, the song and dance again. That's how the shell game goes, right?

Joe Rogan 14:21 Mm.

Jeremy Jones 14:22 So, it's basically a game that you're just not gonna win at. It's-

Joe Rogan 14:24 Like give me an example.

Jeremy Jones 14:25 It sounds good, kind of like... Oh, like this might sound good to you, but you know better now, like...

Joe Rogan 14:32 Eight-ball, taking balls off.

Jeremy Jones 14:34 That kind of thing, or say we're playing nine-ball, right? And I might say to you, Joe, "All you gotta do is drive a ball to the rail, but I get break ball in hand." Playing nine-ball, you understand?

Joe Rogan 14:46 Right.

Jeremy Jones 14:46 So, so I mean if... I'm basically playing the ghost, meaning-

Joe Rogan 14:49 Right, right.

Jeremy Jones 14:49 ... I'm gonna try and run out every time, but until you start to see it happening, you're not gonna believe it. You might go for that.

Joe Rogan 14:54 Right.

Jeremy Jones 14:54 You ain't even gotta pocket a ball. You just gotta drive one to a rail.

Joe Rogan 14:57 Right.

Jeremy Jones 14:58 You know, there's tons of them, so.

Joe Rogan 15:00 That's an interesting game to play with someone who can't play, 'cause that would get them thinking, "I can do that."

Jeremy Jones 15:05 Or, or naive pool rooms.

Joe Rogan 15:07 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 15:07 Like if there's naive pool rooms with a good player, that just really ain't running out. I mean, that just sounds like the world.

Joe Rogan 15:12 Right.

Jeremy Jones 15:12 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 15:13 Right.

Jeremy Jones 15:13 That just sounds... All right, yeah. Go ahead.

Joe Rogan 15:15 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 15:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Exactly.

Jeremy Jones 15:16 I can drive one to a rail, that's for sure, but, you know.

Joe Rogan 15:18 That's... But the thing is, like, wa- like practicing with you today, probably not. Like, and esp- especially if it's a bucket, it's a large-

Jeremy Jones 15:26 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:26 ... large-pocketed table, you run out like a champion, man. It's amazing. And I-

Jeremy Jones 15:31 Well...

Joe Rogan 15:31 ... know you're not, like, playing professionally as much anymore, but damn, that was really impressive.

Jeremy Jones 15:37 Yeah, been here a few days. Got to play a little pool here in Austin already, so that's good. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 15:41 Shout out to Skinny Bob's.

Jeremy Jones 15:42 Yeah, Skinny Bob's. That-

Joe Rogan 15:43 That's a great spot.

Jeremy Jones 15:44 Yeah, the 50th going on. The longest running tournament in the country, so.

Joe Rogan 15:46 Yeah, it's, uh... I went there last year to sweat it.

Jeremy Jones 15:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:49 I m- I might try to make it there this year, too.

Jeremy Jones 15:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:51 It's, uh, it's fun, man. It's wa-... It's... I- I love watching high-level pool. It's just, uh, just d-... And especially, it's one of those things that I always said it's un-... like an art form that only the people that do it appreciate.

Jeremy Jones 16:03 Yeah, and when you really get into it, you see different strikers, you know what I mean? The strokes are different, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 16:08 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 16:08 A little bit-

Joe Rogan 16:09 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 16:09 ... you know, the position's a little different at times, different things-

Joe Rogan 16:12 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 16:12 ... different breakers, different ways to win. You know what I mean? So, it's attractive in that manner, I think.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Yeah. No, it's, it's just a... It's an interesting thing that there's different approaches, you know. Some guys have, like, thick shafts. Some guys have little tiny shafts. You know, it's...

Jeremy Jones 16:26 And body types.

Joe Rogan 16:26 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 16:27 Right?

Joe Rogan 16:27 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 16:27 Or you're talking about Kachi, un-... you know, unfortunately-

Joe Rogan 16:29 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 16:29 ... what happened to him recently, but this guy looks like, you know, like built like Gronk almost. Not quite as muscled as Gronk.

Joe Rogan 16:36 He's a big dude.

Jeremy Jones 16:36 Yeah, huge, and then-

Joe Rogan 16:37 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 16:37 ... you got what, Little Ko, who's one of your favorites-

Joe Rogan 16:40 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 16:40 ... that you said- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:40 Yeah. I love the Ko brothers.

Jeremy Jones 16:41 Let's see, 90 pounds soaking wet, maybe.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Yeah, Koh Ping Chung and Koh Ping Yee are two of my favorite guys to watch because there's... The- the way they play is so smooth. It's just, it's so controlled.

Jeremy Jones 16:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:53 Like he... It seems like he's never hitting the ball at different speeds. He's just hitting it at different places on the ball, unless it's a very soft shot. Everything is just like this beautiful controlled stroke. It's masterful.

Jeremy Jones 17:05 Yeah, everything looks medium, right?

Joe Rogan 17:07 So-

Jeremy Jones 17:07 Everything looks like-

Joe Rogan 17:08 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 17:08 ... uh, right in the middle.

Joe Rogan 17:09 I forget what match I was watching recently, but he, he broke or ran the first five racks, and it was just like exquisite.

Jeremy Jones 17:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:15 Like, it just...

Jeremy Jones 17:15 Little one?

Joe Rogan 17:15 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 17:15 The little one?

Joe Rogan 17:16 No, that was the big one.

Jeremy Jones 17:17 Oh, Koh Ping Yee.

Joe Rogan 17:18 Yeah. Yeah. But they're both-

Jeremy Jones 17:19 Yeah, there's a third, you know?

Joe Rogan 17:20 ... assassins, right?

Jeremy Jones 17:21 There's a third one, you know?

Joe Rogan 17:22 I heard.

Jeremy Jones 17:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:23 I haven't seen that guy play.

Jeremy Jones 17:24 Yeah, he's got a lot of talent. He's, he's way tall compared to the other two.

Joe Rogan 17:28 Oh, really?

Jeremy Jones 17:28 So, it's almost like when I watch him, he's still kinda getting his coordination as a tall man, 'cause he's-

Joe Rogan 17:33 Mm.

Jeremy Jones 17:33 ... he's pretty young, you know? So, yeah, but he's got a lot of game as well.

Joe Rogan 17:37 There's something about, you know, watching these guys from the time that they're real young. Like some guys get so good so quick, like Wu Cha-ching, you know, that dude who won the World Championships at what, 16 years old?

Jeremy Jones 17:50 Yeah, the, the nine-ball and then later in the year the eight-ball as well.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Insane.

Jeremy Jones 17:54 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:54 At 16?

Jeremy Jones 17:55 Oh, yeah. I was there when he won the nine-ball.

Joe Rogan 17:57 He was like fearless.

Jeremy Jones 17:58 Well, he manhandled the whole tournament-

Joe Rogan 18:00 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 18:00 ... at 16. It was like you could see after like the third or fourth round, a little different complexion on his opponents compared to everyone else's opponents.

Joe Rogan 18:08 Yeah, he was an interesting guy too, because he played with a heavy southwest, right?

Jeremy Jones 18:12 Yeah, that... Well, the Chinese Taipei, former Taiwanese, right? Uh, that's a big common cue for them is the southwest.... maybe more on Southwestern an- and Chinese Taipei than anywhere in the world.

Joe Rogan 18:23 Well, that's what interesting too is that everybody has, like, a different philosophy on whether a cue should be heavy or a cue should be light. But what's fa- y- you know, to- to the people who don't know what the fuck we're talking about-

Jeremy Jones 18:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:34 ... what's, what's so fascinating about it is you're trying to apply a certain amount of pressure to this thing that you're holding in your hand, that you drive into a cue ball to get the proper amount of revolutions-

Jeremy Jones 18:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:46 ... and you're doing it across a whole table. So it's like a nine-foot canvas. And when the ball w- goes three rails and comes all the way back, it's, it's perfect for position on the next ball. It's one of the most beautiful things in life.

Jeremy Jones 19:00 Oh, yeah. The curve.

Joe Rogan 19:01 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 19:01 They don't, people don't realize the cue ball curves all over the place.

Joe Rogan 19:04 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 19:04 You know? You know what a massé is, right? But, like, every shot, it curves.

Joe Rogan 19:07 So how much knowledge did you have when you were out there hustling when you were 17? Did you know how to make a good game? Did you-

Jeremy Jones 19:13 Uh.

Joe Rogan 19:14 ... you just wing it just for experience?

Jeremy Jones 19:16 No, I mean, you know, Baytown, where I'm from, eh- east side of Houston, so-

Joe Rogan 19:21 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 19:21 ... you know, I stayed in Baytown, that area, for the first six, eight months I played, and then I... it's 'cause everyone said, "Don't go to Houston, you know, too many great players." And so I started going there, but I started learning real quick, like, you know. You're trying to hang onto your bankroll, you learn a little quicker. And, uh, so I was a little savvy for a year player probably, a little more than most, but, but yeah, I was pretty naive.

Joe Rogan 19:43 And you, so you were telling me, we were talking about it earlier, that there's parts of the country that are not good to go to for gambling.

Jeremy Jones 19:49 Back in the day at least, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:50 Back in the day.

Jeremy Jones 19:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:51 But the South is overwhelmingly good to go to for gambling.

Jeremy Jones 19:54 Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, it's just like tournaments with calcuttas or auctions.

Joe Rogan 19:59 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 19:59 You know, a good auction in New York, if they even have one, might be, like, 5,000 in there, you know, where Buffalo's, I think they had, I don't know, 320,000 in... or something like that in, in May.

Joe Rogan 20:11 Are we getting at-

Jeremy Jones 20:11 A- and that's in New Orleans.

Joe Rogan 20:12 So are we gonna get in trouble with the IRS because of this conversation?

Jeremy Jones 20:15 Well, no, it's legal in Louisiana.

Joe Rogan 20:16 Oh, okay. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 20:17 So they don't take anything out of the m- out of the purse or anything, so there's, there's no med-... You know what I mean.

Joe Rogan 20:21 So for people that d- don't know what a calcutta is, so, uh, if Jeremy was in a tournament, you could actually buy him in the tournament, and you're gambling against all the other people that are picking different players.

Jeremy Jones 20:32 Yeah, they auction everyone off-

Joe Rogan 20:33 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 20:33 ... on the side part.

Joe Rogan 20:34 So everybody gets auctioned.

Jeremy Jones 20:34 S- exactly, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:35 And if there's a lot of gamblers, it can get pretty high, and it gets fun.

Jeremy Jones 20:39 Yeah, o- like at-

Joe Rogan 20:40 Sometimes-

Jeremy Jones 20:40 ... you know.

Joe Rogan 20:40 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 20:41 Like at your country club, like, uh, tournament, like your club tournament or whatever, they usually do a, a calcutta for each team.

Joe Rogan 20:46 Oh, do they do that too?

Jeremy Jones 20:46 Yeah, yeah, they do that in golf a lot.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Yeah, so when you were first, like, j- just trying to go out and get games, d- you're just calling people in the Yellow Pages, showing up at places, and how do you know your speed in comparison to, like... Are you just g- guessing?

Jeremy Jones 21:03 Uh, a little-

Joe Rogan 21:04 'Cause it's easy, like, your first experiences, like, traveling, right?

Jeremy Jones 21:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, you know, you hear about things, right? You get information from people as you've... As you go on, you get to start to know people. You f- you know, you, oh, you meet this guy in this area, that guy in that area.

Joe Rogan 21:18 Right.

Jeremy Jones 21:18 So you keep in touch, and if something serious going on, they, you know, send you a page (laughs) on the old pager, and, you know, you make a call, and you make a decision if you're gonna drive across. Now, that was a few years into it. But at first, it was kind of like... I did some dumb shit, you know? Like, w- went in with, like, a, a, a mechanic shirt on, you know, like all green stuff.

Joe Rogan 21:38 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 21:38 Well, I, you know, I wa-... You know, Color of Money didn't get me going-

Joe Rogan 21:41 Right.

Jeremy Jones 21:41 ... p- for pool. That was a little bit before. But I did watch it.

Joe Rogan 21:44 Right.

Jeremy Jones 21:45 You know? So I kind of felt like...

Joe Rogan 21:46 You could be a hustler.

Jeremy Jones 21:47 Yeah, yeah, but s- immediately went away from that. A lot better just to go in and say, "Hey, we like to play." You know?

Joe Rogan 21:53 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 21:53 And they usually get one of their better players. And you're hitting every little town.

Joe Rogan 21:57 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 21:57 You know what I mean? So you're betting on yourself a little more often, and it's easy to tell pretty quickly unless you catch one of them smart guys that know how to stall, you know-

Joe Rogan 22:07 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 22:07 ... that are hustling you, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 22:08 Right.

Jeremy Jones 22:09 So that's happened.

Joe Rogan 22:10 Did you, did you encounter a lot of those?

Jeremy Jones 22:12 A lot of attempts, you know? But normally the hustler would come up asking for a big spot, you know? The, the smart hustler was the one that could come in and start playing even and then figure it out from there.

Joe Rogan 22:23 Mm.

Jeremy Jones 22:24 You know? It's just a little easier to get down, you know. I- and I knew a lot of those guys that, you know, were there to win, you know.

Joe Rogan 22:30 Now, when you would go to a new pool room, would you try to make a friend and may- maybe give him a gapper if he steered you in the right direction?

Jeremy Jones 22:38 Yeah, that was kinda touchy. I mean, you might, you, you quick... uh, learning quick, you know, uh, quickly that if a, a, a s-

Joe Rogan 22:45 Double steer.

Jeremy Jones 22:45 The same guy that's gonna give you information is probably talking to someone else too-

Joe Rogan 22:49 Right.

Jeremy Jones 22:49 ... you know kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 22:50 Yeah, uh-huh.

Jeremy Jones 22:50 You know, so, you know, best off to be able to evaluate a room, uh, pretty quickly, and, uh, and it's amazing from coast to coast how common people are in a pool room.

Joe Rogan 23:02 And when you were doing this, did you realize, like, how w- wild it is to be a, a young, free man just traveling the country, gambling on pool? Did you realize, like, how wild that is?

Jeremy Jones 23:13 Absolutely. I, I got reminded of it a lot of times just 'cause you get stuck in situations and you... so you get to know people a- and they kind of remind you of it. You know, we were in Chattanooga one time, we were stuck for, like, two weeks because it was the blizzard of '91. I don't know if you remember. It was f- freaking crazy.

Joe Rogan 23:28 I remember that.

Jeremy Jones 23:28 People l- died in the mountains because of it and all that, but... So we're stuck in th- and we're basically walking to the pool room, sliding to the pool room, whatever, every day. So you kind of think about it, and then you h- my friend that was with me, he finally had to end his road trip to go back and go to school. So that reminds me of what I'm doing a little bit.

Joe Rogan 23:46 Right, right.

Jeremy Jones 23:46 You know, that I'm out there just kind of d- going from place to place single, just playing all the pool I can, and, and you know, it was great. Yeah, pretty special.

Joe Rogan 23:56 Yeah, it's romantic.

Jeremy Jones 23:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:58 You know? It's like it really is. I mean, how many movies are there about pool hustlers or, or th- that type of person who's just living this... I mean, it's- that's what was so attractive to it- uh, to me. It was not just watching people that played really well. It was the culture. It was a culture of people that just weren't gonna fit in with nine-to-five. It was not-... an option.

Jeremy Jones 24:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:23 These guys were wild people. And they, they were- a lot of 'em were gambling addicts, and a lot of 'em were really fucking smart guys, and they were really good pool players.

Jeremy Jones 24:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:32 And they just couldn't deal with the regular world. They had to get to a pool hall. "Let's get to a fucking pool hall. Are there any pool players around here?" And they didn't give a fuck about any... But he wasn't a pool player.

Jeremy Jones 24:41 Yeah, if they're comfortable, you know what I mean? So-

Joe Rogan 24:42 Yes.

Jeremy Jones 24:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:43 And they were just around these people, and every day would be the same kinda conversations. Like, "This guy could get the eight, and this-"

Jeremy Jones 24:52 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:52 And it was always like, "You don't have heart. You ain't gambling."

Jeremy Jones 24:55 But that was New York, right?

Joe Rogan 24:56 Oh my God, New York was so much talk, but so little, like, real high gambling that I saw. But I saw a few... I told you about Waterdog-

Jeremy Jones 25:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:04 ... when he played this guy, uh, George the Greek. That was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. I've talked about it before. So in brevity, he would do heroin in the bathroom, come out, sit on a chair for 20 minutes, just, like, gone, and then couldn't miss. It was wild-

Jeremy Jones 25:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:18 ... on a r- what, what you would call, like, a gaff table. It was a very tight table, and the shims were all fucked up. It wasn't perfect.

Jeremy Jones 25:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:25 Like, if you, if you n- hit the point on the way in, weird shit could happen.

Jeremy Jones 25:29 Yeah, you could hit the ball well and it not go.

Joe Rogan 25:31 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 25:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 It was... But he was firing them in like it was a swimming pool.

Jeremy Jones 25:34 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:35 He was firing them in. It was his-

Jeremy Jones 25:37 Does sound like Earl right there.

Joe Rogan 25:38 His stroke was so pure. It was so pure. It was so wild to watch. He was just running out. He was r- and I think he met... He might've run, like, 75 and out or something like that, like something crazy.

Jeremy Jones 25:48 Yeah, which is, like, 300 on a regular table-

Joe Rogan 25:49 We'd just watch him do it.

Jeremy Jones 25:50 ... so, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:50 It was like watching him just run ball after ball while George couldn't do shit. He, he beat him a cou- a couple times like that with different games too. I think they played some one-pocket too. George loved one-pocket. But he would gamble high. He would, like, be the one guy that would gamble thousands of dollars. And then there was this one dude named International Sal. And International Sal made his money, uh, from American Express card scam-

Jeremy Jones 26:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:16 ... way back in the day. They would get the carbons, and then they would make duplicate cards and buy a bunch of shit and then, then sell it. And he was, uh, he would go to the pool hall, and they would bring him bags of cash, just bags of cash. And he was just there all day gambling, losing.

Jeremy Jones 26:35 Yeah, well, he was probably one of the few gamblers that are... I mean, I love New York, I love the guys around New York, but it is more of, like, uh, a lot of shit talking really, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 26:44 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 26:44 ... not as much action maybe.

Joe Rogan 26:46 It's interesting that that's the case 'cause you would think of New York, you would think of, like, wild people, crazy. They're out there on the streets, they're gambling, you know, like...

Jeremy Jones 26:54 Yeah, it's almost like they've been doing it longer, though. Like, they're smart, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 26:59 Ah.

Jeremy Jones 26:59 Like, I mean, they wanna win. I mean, they want the edge and, you know, that's another part of it that's always awesome, you know. When you're in there trying to match up, everyone's trying to get a little edge.

Joe Rogan 27:07 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 27:07 It's just almost like human instinct to try and get a little edge, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:11 Did you read Running the Table, the Kid Delicious book?

Jeremy Jones 27:14 No, I haven't read it completely yet.

Joe Rogan 27:16 It's a really good book.

Jeremy Jones 27:16 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:16 It's a really good book.

Jeremy Jones 27:17 He was a great guy.

Joe Rogan 27:18 The guy who wrote it, what is his name? Jon Wertheim, I believe, uh, fucking just did a beautiful job, like, painting that roma- that's it, painting that romantic story of them doing the same thing, like traveling the road and, and playing pool. And I know there was all this talk about turning that into a movie, and I think it would've been a great movie. I think it... If the right person got ahold of it, really understood what you were talking about.

Jeremy Jones 27:42 Yeah, Danny used to talk about it-

Joe Rogan 27:44 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 27:44 ... possibly becoming a movie, so...

Joe Rogan 27:46 I know they, they were trying to do something with it, but then he died, you know, so I don't know, you know, what they would do. I don't know how... I mean, you would have to get someone to play him that looked like him and-

Jeremy Jones 27:56 I don't know if anyone could ever act like him though.

Joe Rogan 27:57 No way.

Jeremy Jones 27:58 He was awesome.

Joe Rogan 27:59 No way.

Jeremy Jones 27:59 I mean, like, incredible. He... One time, we were in Toledo at the Glass City Open and Sports Illustrated was following him. And me and him are playing, like, the third round, the winners. And I got him, like, 10 to six, racing at 11, and he comes back and beats me, but the shot he made to, to win at hill-hill out of the pocket, right? Like, you know how you set the ball up in the middle of the table?

Joe Rogan 28:22 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 28:22 And, you know, you put the cue ball in the corner and you try to follow it in sometimes-

Joe Rogan 28:26 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 28:26 ... or you try to draw... I mean, and he stabbed his ball in, but he gave the Sports Illustrated (laughs) photographers the Hulk-

Joe Rogan 28:33 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 28:33 ... when he beat it. "Ah." I mean, it was unbel- I mean, it was great. Right in Sports Illustrated too, right? So-

Joe Rogan 28:39 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 28:39 Yeah. Yeah, I love that guy. He was incredible.

Joe Rogan 28:42 Yeah, he's a, the, it's... There's a few really good books on pool, Playing Off the Rail is another one.

Jeremy Jones 28:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:47 Really good book on pool. And, and, uh, Tony Anegoni.

Jeremy Jones 28:51 Yeah, Tony.

Joe Rogan 28:53 Um, but that, that just romantic vision of this person doing, like, the craziest kind of way to make a living. You're making a living off of your skills, and you're just gambling random people in pool halls, and the, the people there are looking out for people like you 'cause they know people like you come into town. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 29:15 Yeah, but they kinda like it too.

Joe Rogan 29:16 Yes.

Jeremy Jones 29:17 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 29:17 Oh, of course.

Jeremy Jones 29:18 Like, I mean, it's, you know, more like w- you know, we call it complementary action. These days, you know, when you become kind of a name, people wanna play you in... You know, they play you, you know, like Shane, he goes to these places, he'll play 50 a set.

Joe Rogan 29:30 There was a guy-

Jeremy Jones 29:30 He'll make, like, 10,000 playing 50 a set.

Joe Rogan 29:32 There was a guy who was really good who was from, uh, I believe he was from Montreal. Um, Paul?

Jeremy Jones 29:38 Portier.

Joe Rogan 29:39 Yes, Paul Portier. Paul Portier came through, uh, executive billiards and robbed a bunch of people.

Jeremy Jones 29:44 Really?

Joe Rogan 29:45 Yeah, that was fun to watch.

Jeremy Jones 29:46 Wow.

Joe Rogan 29:46 That was fun to watch.

Jeremy Jones 29:47 'Cause he wasn't a big gambler per se.

Joe Rogan 29:50 He was so good.

Jeremy Jones 29:50 You know what I mean? He, he... Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:51 He was so good though.

Jeremy Jones 29:52 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:52 He was stealing with some of those guys.

Jeremy Jones 29:54 He's a, he's a really good teacher up there now. I think he-

Joe Rogan 29:56 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 29:56 ... that's what he mainly does, teaches pool.

Joe Rogan 29:59 Yeah, he shot my friend Johnny's nuts in.

Jeremy Jones 30:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:02 It was, it was beautiful to watch though. The k- I mean, the guy just, uh, watching someone who's just, like, re- just elegantly moving that ball around the table-

Jeremy Jones 30:10 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:10 ... for perfect position.

Jeremy Jones 30:12 He was kind of an elegant kinda guy anyways.

Joe Rogan 30:14 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 30:14 He was always cleaned up.

Joe Rogan 30:15 Dressed nice.

Jeremy Jones 30:15 Yeah, real nice-

Joe Rogan 30:16 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 30:16 ... real clean.

Joe Rogan 30:16 Handsome?

Jeremy Jones 30:16 Yeah. Seemed like, uh, you know, Jackie Gleason kinda.

Joe Rogan 30:19 There he is.

Jeremy Jones 30:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:20 There he is, his beautiful mustache.

Jeremy Jones 30:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:22 (laughs) ... hell of a player.

Jeremy Jones 30:24 Yeah, he actually lived in Texas for quite some time.

Joe Rogan 30:26 Oh, did he really?

Jeremy Jones 30:27 Yeah. He lived in the Dallas area for-

Joe Rogan 30:28 So, he was the first pro that I ever saw that came through executive.

Jeremy Jones 30:32 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 30:32 The first, like, real legitimate pro. And that was, uh, you know, early on when I was just learning pool.

Jeremy Jones 30:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:39 Just learning pool.

Jeremy Jones 30:40 Yeah, well, he was pretty solid fundamentally-

Joe Rogan 30:42 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 30:42 ... in stuff, you know. Like, kind of cre- critiqued that, so it'd be a good one to watch. But he was kind of like just a nine-ball player. So, not to pick on Paul, of course, but when you're on the road, you learn-

Joe Rogan 30:53 You gotta play everything, huh?

Jeremy Jones 30:54 You learn you gotta play, yeah. Y- I mean, you know, you're gonna come into some areas where they just don't play nine-ball.

Joe Rogan 31:00 How many times have you gone to a place that they only play bank pool?

Jeremy Jones 31:04 Well, I- I'll tell you one place. I was in, uh, Cleveland. So, I was on the road with a- with-

Joe Rogan 31:10 Which is right next to Kentucky.

Jeremy Jones 31:12 Well, this is north. Ohio's north, though.

Joe Rogan 31:15 Oh, Cincin- which-

Jeremy Jones 31:15 Yeah, yeah. Cincinnati-

Joe Rogan 31:16 Cincinnati's north a little further away, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Jones 31:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:17 Okay.

Jeremy Jones 31:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:18 I'm trying to think 'cause Kentucky's supposed to be the k- the bank place, right?

Jeremy Jones 31:21 Well, yeah, well, I'll get back to that one-

Joe Rogan 31:22 Okay.

Jeremy Jones 31:22 ... I was gonna talk about. But, yeah, I went through, like, uh, Kentu- all over Kentucky, a lot of small towns. That's the only... Now, I wouldn't say that's the only thing they would play, but that's the only thing they played me.

Joe Rogan 31:32 Hmm.

Jeremy Jones 31:33 Without knowing me.

Joe Rogan 31:34 Oh, okay.

Jeremy Jones 31:34 So, like, Mount Sterling. I don't know if the pool... I don't know how old his pool table was, right? These pool balls were so old, they were like snooker ball size.

Joe Rogan 31:44 They were worn out?

Jeremy Jones 31:45 Oh, my God. It was unbelievable how... They're like BBs. I mean, these balls, right?

Joe Rogan 31:49 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 31:49 No, this guy had been racking the balls for 60 years getting a quarter in this pool room.

Joe Rogan 31:55 What?

Jeremy Jones 31:56 60 years for the gamblers. They're playing like... I'm playing like $300 a game. These guys played two, three, $400 games.

Joe Rogan 32:00 He, he gets a quarter a rack?

Jeremy Jones 32:02 For 60 years.

Joe Rogan 32:02 Did he ever get a raise? Did he ask for a raise?

Jeremy Jones 32:05 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 32:05 Like, gosh.

Jeremy Jones 32:05 I was only there, like, two days (laughs) so I don't know.

Joe Rogan 32:08 Gosh.

Jeremy Jones 32:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:08 "Can I get a dollar?"

Jeremy Jones 32:10 (laughs) But, no, he, he was happy as hell.

Joe Rogan 32:12 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 32:13 He, uh, I mean, he looked, you know, just one of the nicest guys in there, you know?

Joe Rogan 32:15 Just liked being there.

Jeremy Jones 32:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But one time, I was in Cleveland and I was on the road with, with a, uh, a friend of mine who's a Black guy, right? So, he's gonna take me to these spots where the Black guys play mainly, you know, like in that area. So, I walk into this pool room in Cleveland called, uh, Carnegie Billiards, and the whole area is more, more Black area, right? So, we walk in the pool room and there's a sign that says, "No nine-ball allowed. No recreational pool allowed." So, they had eight, eight nine-foots and a billiard table, and you couldn't take your date in there. It was all action.

Joe Rogan 32:52 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 32:52 Yeah. So, the guy, he's like, "You're young."

Joe Rogan 32:54 No recreational play?

Jeremy Jones 32:56 Yeah, no recreational play. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Holy shit. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 32:59 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 You know how you'll see those "No Gambling" signs? That's a no "No Gambling" sign.

Jeremy Jones 33:04 Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right.

Joe Rogan 33:06 I love that-

Jeremy Jones 33:06 Oh, no, it was awesome.

Joe Rogan 33:08 ... "No Recreational Play."

Jeremy Jones 33:08 So, the guy that ran the joint was called Shorty, and, uh, he was one of the younger guys in the place. He was probably 35, you know? And I'm... This is 1994, so I'm 23. So, he says, "You're kinda young." He says, "I know you wanna play nine-ball." He said, "I'm gonna let one set for $500," you know? He just... First, almost first thing he says to me. So, 'cause he knows the guy I'm with, so we're there for action, you know? And so, uh, I beat him and set of nine-ball. It was the only nine-ball played. But I stayed there two weeks playing those guys, uh, and all they play is one-pocket, banks, or billiards. That's it.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 33:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:41 Three-cushion billiards?

Jeremy Jones 33:42 Three-cushion billiards, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:43 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 33:43 Yeah, there were a couple really great players, uh, in there that... I mean, they kinda played giving some handicaps on the three-cushion, but it was mainly one-pocket and banks.

Joe Rogan 33:52 That's a wild game, three-cushion billiards. It's one that just, for whatever reason, it's really hard to find. It never took off for some strange reason in America. Or it did at one point in time. It was very popular, right?

Jeremy Jones 34:05 Yeah, it was popular, but it, it was more like exhibition and s-... The tournaments just didn't pay that much. It's almost like the old school players back in the day. They didn't make their money off the tournaments. They made their money winning some tournaments and then getting sponsored and traveling the country for Brunswick, doing these exhibitions.

Joe Rogan 34:21 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 34:21 You know, like Mosconi-

Joe Rogan 34:22 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 34:22 ... and Caris and all those kinda guys, you know?

Joe Rogan 34:24 Right.

Jeremy Jones 34:24 So... But now, it's starting to take off a little bit because Korea's... It's so huge in Korea again.

Joe Rogan 34:29 Really?

Jeremy Jones 34:30 Yeah. Big money they're playing for.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Really?

Jeremy Jones 34:32 I mean, you know, not like golf money, but I mean, $100,000 for a first, $150,000 for a first.

Joe Rogan 34:36 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 34:36 Yeah, big money, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:38 No kidding. And who's putting these events on?

Jeremy Jones 34:40 Uh, a couple Korean companies over there, 'cause it's always been big in Korea, right? It just kinda-

Joe Rogan 34:44 Hmm.

Jeremy Jones 34:44 ... got rekindled again. So, now, all around the world, really, they're having bigger tournaments.

Joe Rogan 34:50 That's awesome.

Jeremy Jones 34:50 You know, they're, they're playing for 30s and 40s. That's good for first, you know?

Joe Rogan 34:53 That's great.

Jeremy Jones 34:54 16 players.

Joe Rogan 34:54 Yeah, well, I, I love that there's so many events now, you know, because I watch so many of them on YouTube. Like, if you en- enjoy watching pool, I used to have a box of Accustats VHS tapes. They're like, it was like this-

Jeremy Jones 35:07 Yeah, same here.

Joe Rogan 35:07 ... like a, like a washing machine box (laughs) filled with Pat Fleming's tapes. And, um, I, uh, I got rid of all of them now 'cause you just fucking get everything on YouTube.

Jeremy Jones 35:17 Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 35:17 Like, everything's on YouTube.

Jeremy Jones 35:18 I w- Well, I asked this question. You might know. Is there any more streamed sport in the world than pool?

Joe Rogan 35:24 It's streamed constantly.

Jeremy Jones 35:26 I mean, but so many different ones as well.

Joe Rogan 35:28 So many different ones, right.

Jeremy Jones 35:28 I mean, it's... I mean, like-

Joe Rogan 35:29 All these different pool rooms like Oscar's Pool Room, Hard Times in Sacramento-

Jeremy Jones 35:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:32 ... just streamed, that tournament.

Jeremy Jones 35:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:34 I was saying I was watching, uh, uh, Tyler Styler and Shane play.

Jeremy Jones 35:38 Yeah, let alone great players. I mean, the next level down, other tournaments.

Joe Rogan 35:41 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 35:41 I mean, just-

Joe Rogan 35:42 Yeah, right.

Jeremy Jones 35:42 I mean, it's amazing to me. I don't know of other sports. I don't watch them like that. I mean, I'm a sports guy, but maybe, maybe what you're into, some type of MMA or some type of martial arts or something maybe, that's streamed a lot.

Joe Rogan 35:54 D- they don't really stream that that often. I mean, there's only, like, big events that stream. There's UFC. There's Bellator. There's, uh, I, I guess you could probably get PFL on, uh, some sort of streaming device too, right? It has to be, right? And then WON Championship, I think you can get that streaming too. But I feel like there's so many multiple pool events that are happening, like, simultaneously.

Jeremy Jones 36:20 Oh, platform after platform, really.

Joe Rogan 36:22 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 36:22 I mean, there's a ton.I mean, there's no more I don't think that I've ever heard of or seen.

Joe Rogan 36:27 I think it's the internet. I think the internet sort of rekindled it in some people. And, uh, I also think it got a boost during the pandemic because people started playing again.

Jeremy Jones 36:36 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:36 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 36:37 I was talking to you about pool table sales and whatnot-

Joe Rogan 36:39 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 36:39 ... during, during the pandemic. It was through the roof. And, uh, and along with that, I mean, you're gonna just get a percentage that like it, you know? And once they start liking it, they're gonna watch it-

Joe Rogan 36:49 So if a kid-

Jeremy Jones 36:49 ... start to know people, right?

Joe Rogan 36:51 ... gets really good now. It's, it's actually a legitimate career path. But when you were doing it, you were just a wild person. You were just out there-

Jeremy Jones 36:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:58 ... doing wild-person things.

Jeremy Jones 37:00 Well, it kind ... Yeah, it kind of made steps for me. I mean, I kind of, like I said, I never knew you could make a living or play good pool. And then it kind of, "All right, I can make good pool. I, I'm, I'm actually making, you know, cash money, you know, pretty good overall for the year." And, and then I started playing some smaller ... I never really had a clue of playing professionally still. It kind of crept up on me.

Joe Rogan 37:20 When did that happen?

Jeremy Jones 37:21 Uh, well, 1995 and '6 is w- I was ... Johnny Archer kind of just told me, he said, "Hey, you need to start playing the next level." He said, "You're the ... A good enough player. It's where you should be. It just depends on if that's what you want to do." You know? And so I still gambled afterwards. Kind of slowed down a little more of the gambling, started going to tournaments, traveling all over the world and the, you know, country playing tournaments. But I started to realize I really liked the tournaments. That's a different pressure only, knowing you can't, you know, just flip the coin again.

Joe Rogan 37:51 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 37:52 You know? So ... Especially because the first year, I think I played seven tournaments and I might've won one match.

Joe Rogan 37:59 Really?

Jeremy Jones 37:59 And I could beat most of the guys I was losing to. Now, the first draw was hard because I wasn't a seeded player. So that was Efren, you know, Luat, you know-

Joe Rogan 38:08 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 38:08 ... Johnny, you know (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 38:09 Right, right, right.

Jeremy Jones 38:09 ... Kim Davenport, all those guys. But, um, but on the losing side, I'd lose matches to guys I'm supposed to beat a lot of times, but I was a different nervous.

Joe Rogan 38:17 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 38:17 So I was really intrigued on getting through that. You know, like getting-

Joe Rogan 38:20 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 38:20 ... to where that wasn't a problem, whether I won or not.

Joe Rogan 38:23 It's a different nervousness than gambling?

Jeremy Jones 38:25 Oh, 100%. Yeah. Gambling, I don't recall ever starting off nervous. Only, I only ... No, take that back. Now, if I only had a couple of barrels and I was on the road, you know what I mean? Like-

Joe Rogan 38:36 Right.

Jeremy Jones 38:36 And that's happened several times where, you know, let's just, just imagine now, this is true story, even smaller probably, but let's just say I had 100 bucks, and that sounds crazy to be 1,000 miles away and you only got 100 bucks. And the guy's trying to say, "Come on, I'll play you some 100 a game, one pocket," right? And I'm trying to get him to play for 50 so I can have two barrels (laughs) , you know? And he's just insisting we play for 100.

Joe Rogan 38:59 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 39:00 So now I'll start off a little nervous knowing I got one barrel, and if I-

Joe Rogan 39:03 Right.

Jeremy Jones 39:03 ... if I quit after one game, it looks real bad as far as the action, and-

Joe Rogan 39:06 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 39:06 ... you know? So, but I've had to do that a few times because percentages say I'm, I'm supposed to beat this guy, you know, and pump up.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Oh.

Jeremy Jones 39:14 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:15 Percentages say.

Jeremy Jones 39:16 Yeah. But I mean, you know, that's the difference. That ... But I mean, overall gambling, I played races to five for 5,000. I played ... The biggest set I ever played was like 38Gs. Um, but I wasn't nervous at all.

Joe Rogan 39:28 Really?

Jeremy Jones 39:29 No. I mean, I knew the person I was playing. We probably had history of playing before.

Joe Rogan 39:33 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 39:34 You know what I mean? I knew what to expect. You know, generally it was one pocket more. Just there wasn't as much big nine ball back in the day.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 39:41 You know? Uh, unlike today. But, um, but yeah, the tournament's totally different. And, uh, like you go up the scale, like Mosconi Cup is off the charts.

Joe Rogan 39:50 That's why it's so impressive watching someone just break and run five racks in a row in a tournament. It's just-

Jeremy Jones 39:56 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:57 ... perfect precision. It's 'cause you know the control that's involved and all of those little fine movements and ...

Jeremy Jones 40:03 Oh, yeah. But that's the thing though, when they heat up a little bit, you know what I'm saying, they start to forget about it a little bit more.

Joe Rogan 40:10 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 40:10 They start to play better. But even the Fellers and Fedders and all them, you know, and they'll tell you, but they're nervous. I mean, you can see it out there, you know?

Joe Rogan 40:19 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 40:19 Like, you know they're nervous, but they're battling through it.

Joe Rogan 40:22 Yeah, I could imagine. Poor Max at 180 beats per second. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 40:26 (laughs) And he was pissed too. He-

Joe Rogan 40:27 180 beats per minute is so much. That's like, uh, that's like a full-on sprint.

Jeremy Jones 40:31 No, it was way up there.

Joe Rogan 40:32 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 40:33 And, and there was somebody, I can't remember exact ... Maybe it was Shane, that was like 90 or 85.

Joe Rogan 40:39 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 40:39 Like way, way down there.

Joe Rogan 40:40 Well, that shuts that hearing aid off.

Jeremy Jones 40:42 I know. It's strong, huh?

Joe Rogan 40:43 That's such a great thing to be able to do to shut the world out. It's not a great thing to be deaf, obviously, but-

Jeremy Jones 40:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:49 ... to, to have that with pool, you know, it's almost like, uh, it's ... He's like l- It, it's like ... Do you know what a sensory deprivation tank is?

Jeremy Jones 40:58 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 40:59 I'll show you one. We have one out here.

Jeremy Jones 41:00 Okay.

Joe Rogan 41:00 You, you lay in salt water and you float and the, the water's the same temperature as your skin. You close the door. Total silence, total darkness. And in the absence of sensory input, your brain becomes like supercharged. You can think about things better. You, you see everything more clearly.

Jeremy Jones 41:18 Wow.

Joe Rogan 41:18 You ... And you start to almost achieve like a psychedelic state while you're doing this. And the benefit of not having sensory input is the other senses for what ... Or, or your mind rather, is more free. It has les- less resources that are hogging up its, you know, its-

Jeremy Jones 41:34 Yeah, makes sense.

Joe Rogan 41:35 ... its energy. I wa- I, I imagine that's what's going on with him. He shuts that hearing aid off and he can probably just completely concentrate on the game.

Jeremy Jones 41:45 Well, that and the one I thought about with him, because he's always been talked about with practice so much, right? His regimen was so, you know, long, right?

Joe Rogan 41:53 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 41:53 But I mean, to be able to shut them off when you're practicing and be in the pool room-

Joe Rogan 41:57 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 41:57 You know what I mean? Like really get involved in yourself.

Joe Rogan 41:59 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 41:59 That's the big deal with most guys at practice, even the ones that want to get bothered a lot. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 42:04 Right.

Jeremy Jones 42:04 Distractions and whatnot. Probably also just his situation, when peop- he was there, people just left him alone. They kind of knew it, you know?

Joe Rogan 42:12 I was hanging out with Max Eberl-And, uh, we were at this, uh, pool hall in Las Vegas that this Italian guy owned. This guy had the best food of any pool hall I've ever been to in my life. I mean, legit Italian food. It was sensational. He had lasagna and linguini with clams and garlic bread.

Jeremy Jones 42:34 This in Vegas?

Joe Rogan 42:34 Yeah. Th- this guy was from Italy, and he would bring over food from... He was like a chef in Italy. He'd bring over his food from Italy, like imported mortadella and all this... It was insane that the food was so good. But anyway, this is while Shane was still on top of the world. This is when he's doing the tar matches and all those things. And we're, we're playing, it's like a Friday night before a UFC, and Shane is practicing by himself for like five hours.

Jeremy Jones 43:00 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:00 Just five hours, stroking in balls and getting perfect position and setting things up again, and setting things up again, for five hours by himself. Didn't talk to anybody, just firing balls in.

Jeremy Jones 43:13 Well, that's the amazing thing too. You ever see him just sit on the back rail with a cue ball and set up the long shot, hitting it 100 miles an hour?

Joe Rogan 43:20 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 43:21 Well, try doing that for like three or four hours straight.

Joe Rogan 43:23 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 43:24 Hitting the ball that hard, you know, swinging the... I mean, you'll be wore out. I mean, he'll be, he'll win the hot seat at the US Open and be the first guy practicing, not even play till the next day, you know, be there eight hours, nine hours getting ready. Next day he wakes up, does the same thing eight or nine hours before he's gotta play the big final.

Joe Rogan 43:42 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 43:42 Oh, no, he's sick. He's a sicko-

Joe Rogan 43:45 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 43:45 ... for sure. But I mean, it shows though. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:47 It shows.

Jeremy Jones 43:48 Yeah. I mean, under pre- um, you know, I don't know if there's anyone better in the tough shot, ever.

Joe Rogan 43:54 Right.

Jeremy Jones 43:54 I mean, I know Filler's awesome and everything, but the true tough shot, I mean, under the biggest pressure, maybe Shane's the best.

Joe Rogan 44:01 Uh, he's certainly in the argument as the greatest of all time. I mean, you got a handful of people, Efren and so many different people. We were talking about Bustamante when he was in his prime. But the thing about all those guys, like a- a- like, when you go back to, like, their, their early days of tournament play and Efren Reyes and the Filipino invasion, like, that was all gambling. It was all gambling, right?

Jeremy Jones 44:26 Oh, 100%. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:27 Which is one of the mo- one of the most exciting parts of the game of pool, is this illegal aspect of it. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 44:34 (laughs) Well, you know-

Joe Rogan 44:34 I mean, it's like such a dr- it's not illegal everywhere, but in a lot of places it is, but it's just-

Jeremy Jones 44:38 Well, as soon as someone bets on the side, it becomes illegal, I think, is how it works.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Oh, well then it's illegal every single goddamn time.

Jeremy Jones 44:45 Right, right, right. But I mean you-

Joe Rogan 44:46 If someone bets on the side in Texas? Oh, no.

Jeremy Jones 44:47 Yeah, that's a, that's a form of racketeering or something. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, but Efren, you know the story.

Joe Rogan 44:53 You can't even b- have, make a bet with your friends? Like, what if you and I were playing-

Jeremy Jones 44:57 No, me and you are supposed to be able to play-

Joe Rogan 44:59 Right.

Jeremy Jones 44:59 ... and we could bet a million.

Joe Rogan 45:01 Okay.

Jeremy Jones 45:01 And it wouldn't be a problem.

Joe Rogan 45:02 But Jamie couldn't bet on us?

Jeremy Jones 45:03 That's... I think that's something.

Joe Rogan 45:04 That seems-

Jeremy Jones 45:04 Yeah. Or if there's someone taking a percentage of some sort.

Joe Rogan 45:08 That seems un-American.

Jeremy Jones 45:08 You know, kind of like the poker, y'all got the legal poker around here, right?

Joe Rogan 45:11 I do not know. I don't play poker.

Jeremy Jones 45:13 Yeah, well, they got the legal poker rooms, but they charge like pool time, you know-

Joe Rogan 45:16 Oh.

Jeremy Jones 45:16 ... like, like by the hour, so they don't take any money out of the pot, you know, like...

Joe Rogan 45:19 Interesting.

Jeremy Jones 45:20 Yeah. So it's legal now.

Joe Rogan 45:21 That makes sense. That's-

Jeremy Jones 45:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:23 That's not a bad compromise.

Jeremy Jones 45:25 Yeah, it's okay.

Joe Rogan 45:25 But I feel like not being able to bet on your friend is un-American.

Jeremy Jones 45:29 (laughs) Oh, we're definitely not Texan, that's for sure. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:31 You know what I'm saying? Like, if you're b- gambling with somebody and you're playing s- someone, I'm like, "I got money on Jeremy." If I, and if I say that, that's illegal? If like you were just making an agreement between people?

Jeremy Jones 45:43 I think so. Oh, yeah. I think so.

Joe Rogan 45:45 That sounds so crazy.

Jeremy Jones 45:45 I'm pretty sure.

Joe Rogan 45:46 That sounds so crazy.

Jeremy Jones 45:47 It happened once in Houston, like right before I started. Actually, a couple times, but once in Houston at a pool room that I frequented, um, like a year or two before I really started going there, right when I was young. They didn't take the guys that were playing. They took the guys that were all betting on the side.

Joe Rogan 46:03 Oh my God.

Jeremy Jones 46:04 Yeah. Is that crazy?

Joe Rogan 46:05 Yeah. Meanwhile, how many people are out there getting robbed? For real, Rob.

Jeremy Jones 46:09 Yeah. Right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:10 How, how many people could you have been arresting instead of like finding people who are gambling the wrong way? Ugh.

Jeremy Jones 46:15 Oh, yeah. There, oh, there's a lot of those, right?

Joe Rogan 46:18 Yeah, it's just... I- I- It's such a, like... And you know, I, like I said, the, the, those two books are great at d- like depicting the romantic aspect of it, playing off the rail and running the table. But to have, to actually lived that life, to actually been... Like when did you, when did you come off that life? Like when did you stop like traveling constantly and...

Jeremy Jones 46:39 Uh, like town to town kind of thing?

Joe Rogan 46:41 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 46:41 Yeah. Probably around '90, '98, '99, I really jumped up in the rankings. Uh, started being able to get like real sponsors, paychecks, uh, stuff like that from sponsors. Um, but I still didn't quit gambling. I still played plenty of people. It was just kind of like, it wasn't spent a lot of time traveling, you know, like waiting around. Like you might go somewhere if you know it's a good spot, you know, like somebody sent you there, "Hey, they're gambling." You know? But it might take a little time getting to know you and whatnot before they're comfortable. You might stay a week, two weeks, three weeks at a place.

Joe Rogan 47:12 Was there the fear that you entering into professional tournaments would knock your gambling?

Jeremy Jones 47:18 Uh, nah.

Joe Rogan 47:19 Just people would know that you-

Jeremy Jones 47:20 By this time people, everyone knew. I mean, you know, at...

Joe Rogan 47:23 Right.

Jeremy Jones 47:23 It didn't take long before a few, few trips I went by my middle name. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:27 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 47:27 Yeah. Because there were magazines that, you know, you could see what's going on around the country.

Joe Rogan 47:32 Right.

Jeremy Jones 47:32 You just might not get a picture or a video of it or whatever. So you start to hear names, you know. So like first time I went to California, uh, I did that actually. (laughs) And you know, it worked out nice, so...

Joe Rogan 47:44 What did you do? You just use a different name?

Jeremy Jones 47:45 Well, it's a funny story and, and I think he can laugh about it now, but you know Marcus Shamad is, right?

Joe Rogan 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 47:52 From Sweden, so. So there was a guy that was staking him and s- a lot of other great players and, and he was big action, the guy was. And I knew Marcus was out there and so I'm in hard times and I think I told you about this the other day with Keith, but the only two people in the hard times that knew me, all right, uh, was Keith and Jose Parika. All right? So everyone else didn't know who I was.So, Marcus Shamat is standing next to two other guys that I know play but won't play, kind of thing. So, I go up and I ask those two guys, I was like, "You know, one of y'all wanna play some, you know, $50 or $100 sets of nine-ball, you know?" Knowing Marcus is gonna just jump right on me, you know what I mean? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:34 Right.

Jeremy Jones 48:34 Like, he's right next to them, so long story short, that happened. And, uh... But I introduced myself as Tyler, my middle name, you know, like, I just did, you know? So, we start playing, he beats me a set for, uh, 100 playing even, I quit. He offers me the eight. Beats me a set for 200, I quit. Now he offers me the seven. So now, his stake horse starts coming over near me 'cause Marcus is just stealing this little $400 or $500, ain't got nothing to it with a stake horse, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 49:04 Right.

Jeremy Jones 49:04 This is just like pocket money. So now, his stake horse comes over and he's kinda interested in the game. He says he'll give you the seven, but you gotta bet, you know, everything you got. Well, I got like $25,000 or $30,000 on me. You wouldn't know it, but I do, you know? So I can't pull out $25,000 or $30,000. They're gonna know something's up. So, me and my buddy, we just, we talk for a second, so we end up pulling out like $4,500. So we play for a little bit and, uh, we're p- now we're playing seven ahead. We were playing a race of seven for the $100 and $200, right? So now, he thinks he's stealing 'cause I mean, the way I played in the other two sets, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 49:43 Right.

Jeremy Jones 49:43 So he just comes out like gangbusters. He got me like four games down. I'm talking to my buddy, I'm like, "Man, this is sick. We're gonna get beat in this spot right here. I'm getting the seven," you know? So finally, I get a shot and I start to f- run out. Now, I'm starting to run out. And so his stake horse sits there and he says, "Man, ain't this something?" (laughs) You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 50:00 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 50:00 He says, uh, "We thought we were stealing and it looks, it looks real bad now." So, so I beat him that set. So now, at Hard Times... You've been there, right? In LA?

Joe Rogan 50:09 Yeah, Bellflower?

Jeremy Jones 50:10 Yeah. So they got the player's side, right? With the tight tables.

Joe Rogan 50:13 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 50:13 And they got the looser tables. Well, he had me on the looser tables thinking, you know, I'm just a sucker, you know? So, he says, uh, the stake horse says, "Double the bet and we'll give you the eight on the tight tables," right? So this is like, really good for me, you know? Now I'm getting a spot on even a tougher table. So I beat him that set. But during that second set, a friend of mine had built me a cue and sent it out to the guy that ran the tournaments in LA, right? So I'm going by Tyler and this guy walks up and he says real loud, he says, "Are you Jeremy Jones?" (laughs) Like that.

Joe Rogan 50:49 Oh, no.

Jeremy Jones 50:49 He says, "If you are, I got a cue for you," you know? And I was like, "No, I ain't Jeremy," (laughs) 'cause I'm in the middle of this 13, uh, $9,000 set playing, you know? So I said, "No, I ain't Jeremy Jones," (laughs) you know? And I just sent him on his way. And then the next day when I came in, Mark knew who I was and, you know, everyone spilled the beans kinda thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 51:06 Oh, no.

Jeremy Jones 51:06 And I had to go tell the guy, "All right, that's my cue," and everything. So... But it was-

Joe Rogan 51:10 Was he mad at you?

Jeremy Jones 51:11 No, no, not at all. He understood. It's kinda like a funny story around there now, I think. But Marcus was mad at me for a little while.

Joe Rogan 51:17 Yeah, that's what I was asking.

Jeremy Jones 51:18 Oh, yeah. Because he was European, you know?

Joe Rogan 51:21 Oh.

Jeremy Jones 51:21 And it was just kinda like, you know, if someone got me like that, you know, I'm gonna... It's gonna sting, but it's gonna be more like, all right, touche kind of thing. You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 51:29 Right, right, right.

Jeremy Jones 51:29 Later on, you know, we're gonna laugh about it and stuff. But it took... It's almost like if you first beat Efren. He walks by you, but he don't say much to you for about a month or two.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Really?

Jeremy Jones 51:38 Oh, yeah. He's gotta let that wear off a little bit. But it took M- Marcus probably about a decade before... It was bad, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:45 So when, when he beat you the first two sets even, were you s- s- were you hustling a little?

Jeremy Jones 51:53 Well, I might not have put forth my best effort, but he played real good, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 51:56 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 51:56 He was just, "All right, let me pick up this $400 or $500 and get out of here."

Joe Rogan 51:58 But were you purposely trying to set something up?

Jeremy Jones 52:01 Well, I thought... I th- You know, I'm definitely not trying to win for $200, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 52:05 Right.

Jeremy Jones 52:05 Like, his stake horse, who now has actually, after that trip, became a real good friend of mine. And, you know, at that time, he was known you could beat him out of, you know, $40,000 or $50, you know, $1,000, right? So you're not gonna start off doing anything like that for $200 or so.

Joe Rogan 52:19 So when you first start playing, you play good, but you're not really bearing down.

Jeremy Jones 52:25 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 52:26 So you're showing him that you can play a little, but you might miss some shots that-

Jeremy Jones 52:31 Plus I wanted to see him play.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Right.

Jeremy Jones 52:32 You know? I heard the name.

Joe Rogan 52:34 Right.

Jeremy Jones 52:34 I kinda wanted to really see 'cause eventually-

Joe Rogan 52:36 Right.

Jeremy Jones 52:36 ... to beat him out of the real money is gonna be playing even.

Joe Rogan 52:39 Right.

Jeremy Jones 52:39 You know what I mean? 'Cause he's another great player. So that eventually was gonna happen, but Marcus ended up having to leave the country for his vi- his visa got- got shortened up or something like that. He actually ended up leaving the next day. But I stick- stuck around for about a month.

Joe Rogan 52:53 In these other countries, is there a lot of gambling going on? Obviously in the Philippines there is, but i- is there a lot of gambling going on in these other countries where all these players are emerging?

Jeremy Jones 53:01 Some of Asia, for sure. Um, Southeast Asia especially, I think. You know, Thailand, like you said, Philippines, Indonesia. Um, Europe here and there. Not a whole lot. Not a whole lot at all. And I- I- I think it's more of the stake horse kinda situation. It's just not the mentality, you know?

Joe Rogan 53:20 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 53:20 There's not stake horse... You know, people aren't just thinking, "Oh, let me go put somebody else in action for thousands of dollars and give 'em half."

Joe Rogan 53:25 Yeah. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 53:25 You know? (laughs) It's just not your everyday thing.

Joe Rogan 53:28 That's one of the fun parts of American pool culture, those stake horses.

Jeremy Jones 53:32 Oh, absolutely. They're some of the biggest characters.

Joe Rogan 53:35 Yes, wild, crazy people with tons of money.

Jeremy Jones 53:37 Yeah, and how they got it.

Joe Rogan 53:38 Yeah. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 53:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:41 Yeah. And, uh, they're interested in gambling on pool?

Jeremy Jones 53:44 Yeah, I've, uh, been paid in, uh, buried money quite a few times.

Joe Rogan 53:48 Really?

Jeremy Jones 53:49 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:50 You had to dig it up?

Jeremy Jones 53:51 It stinks. It stinks usually.

Joe Rogan 53:52 Really?

Jeremy Jones 53:52 Oh, yeah. Not nice.

Joe Rogan 53:54 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 53:54 The whole car stunk. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:57 Really?

Jeremy Jones 53:57 Oh, yeah. Real bad.

Joe Rogan 53:59 Do you think there was like bodies next to the money or something?

Jeremy Jones 54:01 I don't think so. I don't-

Joe Rogan 54:03 Why did it smell? Just mildew and shit?

Jeremy Jones 54:05 Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'm talking about...

Joe Rogan 54:06 Wow.

Jeremy Jones 54:06 Yeah, I think this has been there a long time.

Joe Rogan 54:08 Buried money.

Jeremy Jones 54:08 30, 30 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a guy one time where South Carolina is, another place that, uh, I frequented in the summers, especially 'cause we gambled at golf, but, um...... this guy, Frank, and he was a great, great guy. And, uh, he used to come in in overalls, didn't know he had a penny, but he staked a lot of players and he did a lot for the pool community. So he comes in one morning ... 'cause we'd all meet at the pool room about 10:00 AM and we'd all make a golf game, then we'd go out to the golf course, gamble golf, come back to the pool room and make pool games, right? It was a, it was awesome. I mean, the whole summer was like this. So this Frank comes in one morning and, uh, he looked real upset. And he never looked upset. Always happy. Even if he lost, he was happy. And so I said, "Frank, what's wrong? You okay?" He said, "Oh, I come out my back door and I saw one of my bushes dug up today."

Joe Rogan 55:01 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 55:01 (laughs) So-

Joe Rogan 55:02 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 55:02 ... one of his sons that is kind of a, was, you know, a little detached at times from the family-

Joe Rogan 55:07 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 55:07 ... for one reason or another, he let it stay there and he said he knew it right when ... it was a $30,000 bush, huh?

Joe Rogan 55:13 (sighs)

Jeremy Jones 55:13 Oh, yeah. Yeah, (laughs) yeah. And so he took it like a grain of salt. He was more disappo- ... It was kind of a, like a disappointed father kind of thing more than upset.

Joe Rogan 55:22 Oh, yeah.

Jeremy Jones 55:22 He had plenty of money, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:23 Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Jones 55:24 So ... But it's amazing what people do with their money.

Joe Rogan 55:27 Yeah. That's a, that's a Hunter Biden type move. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 55:30 (laughs) Probably got it buried a little better.

Joe Rogan 55:34 You need, you need something ... Yeah, but I mean, d- digging that money up for a need.

Jeremy Jones 55:39 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:40 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 55:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:42 Yeah. That's, uh ... Uh, it's just that the kind of people that would, uh, go to these places and look forward to matching these guys together. Like, that was always the, the ... It's a famous story, um, that's in the, the, um, Running the Table book about Chicago Billiards. Did you ever go to that place?

Jeremy Jones 56:01 Sh-

Joe Rogan 56:01 It's in Connecticut.

Jeremy Jones 56:02 I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 56:03 Chicago Billiards was, uh, owned by this one eccentric millionaire who would encourage gambling. And if, uh, no gambling was going on, he would put money up for guys to play. He just wanted action constantly. They had dorms there. Like, people would sle- ... They had beds in the back.

Jeremy Jones 56:19 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:19 People would sleep there.

Jeremy Jones 56:20 Cots.

Joe Rogan 56:21 Guys would come in, stay for days.

Jeremy Jones 56:23 Oh, yeah. Well, that's ... You know, just like poker games. See, Houston had a big underground poker scene, and the same thing with pool rooms. If you have a, a pu- ... a guy that owns the poker room that's action, that's the best games.

Joe Rogan 56:34 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 56:34 I mean, they're putting the money back in play, and the same thing with the pool room. If the pool room owner's involved-

Joe Rogan 56:38 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 56:39 ... I mean, you know, he's gonna have players around, he's gonna have options usually, and that's some of the best spots for action.

Joe Rogan 56:44 (smacks lips) I remember I was watching this guy play and he just got off the phone and, uh, he said, uh, "My wife just told me if I don't come home now, I'm getting a divorce." And he goes, "Rack the balls."

Jeremy Jones 56:56 (laughs) I've heard that in so many words before.

Joe Rogan 56:59 It was j- ... But he said it out loud. He goes, "Rack the balls."

Jeremy Jones 57:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:03 He's like, "We're gonna keep playing."

Jeremy Jones 57:04 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:05 "It looks like I'm getting divorced."

Jeremy Jones 57:07 Not the first time she's told him that, probably, but-

Joe Rogan 57:09 Yeah. I mean, it's just too addictive. Those places are too addictive. I would get ... I couldn't wait to get back to them. When I'd go on the road and I'd do stand up, couldn't wait to come back, get to the pool room. What's going on?

Jeremy Jones 57:19 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:20 Who's playing who? What's happening? You know?

Jeremy Jones 57:22 Yeah. There were a lot of truck drivers that played, you know, got to play all over-

Joe Rogan 57:25 Hmm.

Jeremy Jones 57:25 ... in different places.

Joe Rogan 57:27 Ah.

Jeremy Jones 57:27 You know? But the one thing about pool, you really ... Even if you don't ... around the gambling, it's hard to leave totally the game. I mean, it's just ... It's good to hit the ball well.

Joe Rogan 57:35 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 57:35 It feels good, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 57:37 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 57:37 It's just like golf, they say. When you hit it well, it feels good, right? So it's just how it is.

Joe Rogan 57:40 Have you ever considered writing down some of your, uh, road stories-

Jeremy Jones 57:44 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:45 ... like putting together? Like Danny DiLiberto has a book out.

Jeremy Jones 57:48 Yeah. There's a, a good friend of mine, Harley Breien. Uh, I think I was telling you a little bit about him the other day, but he's like a legend guy and, uh, I tell him all the time, I'm like, "I mean, this is like the best book ever if you just tell it, you know, tell your stories." You know, he was raised on a riverboat. His, uh, hi- ... like Porky's, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 58:07 Yeah. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 58:07 Like the mo- ... You know, like that's what he w- ... His dad owned two of them in Jacksonville-

Joe Rogan 58:10 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 58:10 ... the only two, you know. Like, just the stuff he was raised around and he was a great pool player around, you know, Jimmy Caris and Mosconi and all those guys. He's actually s- ... He's 84 now, I think. Yeah. But yeah, that'd be good to put the pool stories down. There's a lot of them.

Joe Rogan 58:24 That's one of my favorite expressions is a riverboat gambler.

Jeremy Jones 58:27 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:27 Those type of people.

Jeremy Jones 58:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Oh, he's one of them riverboat gamblers.

Jeremy Jones 58:30 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:30 Just wild people. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 58:33 Well, people around the water.

Joe Rogan 58:34 Yeah. (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 58:35 I mean, I don't know what it is. I mean, we ... I'm from there too, Baytown, like right on it.

Joe Rogan 58:39 What do you think it is?

Jeremy Jones 58:42 It's a very carefree kinda ... You know, once you don't bathe for a week, you kinda figure out you ain't got to that often again.

Joe Rogan 58:48 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 58:48 I mean, I don't know. I don't know what the mentality is, but ...

Joe Rogan 58:51 But why, why is gambling so prevalent in the South? That's what's fascinating to me. Like, why is it so a l- a part of the culture? I mean, and even in things that are illegal like rooster fighting and shit. Like-

Jeremy Jones 59:03 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:03 ... gambling is, like, so pervasive.

Jeremy Jones 59:06 Yeah. I mean, you know, you would know more about the North than I would, but maybe the faster paced. I mean, we always just said it's kind of like California, a little bit the same. They're real smart and they play well and they're just not ... They're not just g- gonna take much of a beating. And the thing is even if you play well, this is the difference. A lot of people g- ... Like, I used to get accused for being ... Wanting, you know, the best of the game, which who doesn't, right?

Joe Rogan 59:29 Right.

Jeremy Jones 59:30 But people would mistake that also for someone who could play well under pressure. You underst- ... And you know-

Joe Rogan 59:35 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 59:35 ... if you play well under pressure, it looks like you got the best of the game. You know?

Joe Rogan 59:38 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 59:38 Most people can't, so even if you beat them playing really well, so it's hard to make another game off of how you just played 'cause you played really well (laughs) like-

Joe Rogan 59:47 Right.

Jeremy Jones 59:47 ... that's hard to do all the time playing pool.

Joe Rogan 59:49 Right.

Jeremy Jones 59:49 You know that, right? Right, right? So-

Joe Rogan 59:50 I've seen guys trying to match up for hours.

Jeremy Jones 59:53 Oh, yeah, 100%.

Joe Rogan 59:53 For hours. Give up, come back, give up, come back.

Jeremy Jones 59:56 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:57 And then finally, "Oh my God, they're racking the balls? They're racking the balls."

Jeremy Jones 1:00:00 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 It's happening.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:01 ... you know. I go to senior centers, right, sometimes, and play pool with some of the older guys or have a lesson there or something like that. They talk a little shit without any gambling, so ... (laughs) I-

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 1:00:11 You, you know what I mean? So ... And some of it goes way back. Like it's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:15 ... pretty nasty stuff, so ...

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 Oh, really?

Jeremy Jones 1:00:17 Well, I mean, kinda. I mean, you know, they don't know me from Adam talking about something real personal from 25 years ago. I d- ... You know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:24 That's hilarious.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:25 Yeah, it is pretty funny, so ...... I think the barking in general, being somewhere you're allowed to bark a little bit.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:31 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Well, that's- it was always- it's just like a part of the fun of it all. It's like wild things are happening.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:39 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 You know?

Jeremy Jones 1:00:39 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 People are accusing people, sharking them, and there's this-

Jeremy Jones 1:00:43 Well, the swings too, the ups and downs.

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:46 You know, like, I mean, you know, you just broke so-and-so. He's dead broke. He was borrowing money yesterday and, you know, you spent two days out of the poolroom and he's, he's won 10,000 since, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:55 So you keep track of everyone.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:00:57 Especially if you're in a place locally that you live at that has action. You always wanna know what's going on a little bit, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 And for people that don't understand the allure of this, you're constantly engaged in some kind of competition. There's- it's constant happening.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:11 Oh, yeah. It is.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 And there's-

Jeremy Jones 1:01:12 And it's endless.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Yeah, it's endless.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:14 Yeah. It ain't, you know ... Basketball, what are you gonna do?

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 1:01:16 You gonna go shoot free throws maybe or maybe play one on-

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:19 I mean, this is endless, the pool games and the handicaps-

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:21 ... the partners.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 It's no season.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:23 Yeah. Y'all too could play mean.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:26 You know, we could rotate.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:27 I mean, there's just all kinds though.

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Yeah. When you- have you ever sat down and tried to like, uh, like writ- write out some of these stories?

Jeremy Jones 1:01:37 Not really the stories, no. I've written some stuff for teaching, uh, 'cause I do a lot of that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:43 Right? And, uh, uh, it helps to write it down, yeah, for sure. Um, but no, not the stories. Probably should.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 You definitely should.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:52 I think I'd wanna know somebody though, like really trust putting it in someone else's hands.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Right. Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:57 You know? If someone's gonna come across with a-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 With an author.

Jeremy Jones 1:01:59 Yeah, give it the right climate-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:02:01 ... whatever that is, you know? I'm not sure what that is yet, but ...

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 Maybe we could just record some of your stories. Just record some of your stories and make YouTube videos. That might actually be even better than a book.

Jeremy Jones 1:02:11 Well, some of them are pretty crazy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 (laughs) Give me a crazy one. What's the craziest one?

Jeremy Jones 1:02:16 Oh. Uh, oh, there- I can't tell you probably maybe the craziest. I'll tell you later on the craziest ones-

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 Okay.

Jeremy Jones 1:02:21 ... on here. But, uh, uh, let's see, uh ... So, so, so one time I was at a tournament in, in, uh, Mississippi, and to get on with this, I won the tournament, uh, tough tournament, Johnny Archer, all the great players and, and there was a bar table. So I won like 8,000. So by the time I won the tournament, I think I was about 25,000 losers in the casino. Okay? Like, terrible trip. I mean, I wasn't even trying. You, you remember Tony Ellen?

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 Yes.

Jeremy Jones 1:02:48 So he was 20 minutes late to get a steak dinner at the Horseshoe, cost me about $12,000. (laughs) I went down there and said, "Oh, let me just, let me just pitch 300," you know? And they just pounded me, right? So I got the tournament money after winning, it was 8,000. Went straight to the cage and cashed in, went straight to the blackjack.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 (sighs)

Jeremy Jones 1:03:08 Yeah. I had it about 10 minutes. So the 8,000 was gone. And so this guy that was playing there, his name was Frank Seals, and he was a legendary stakehorse, and he used to take CJ when he was a kid and a lot of players throughout the years, and he said, "Hey, if you're ever bored, you wanna come up to Morristown, Tennessee? I got a kid. I'll let you play if you still wanna play, you know. I like the way you gamble," is what he said. He watched me play blackjack, blow all my money, right?

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 1:03:37 Yeah. (laughs) So ...

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 (laughs)

Jeremy Jones 1:03:39 Yeah. So I had- yeah, I told him, messed with him, I said, "You ain't dealing with me no blackjack up there if I go up there." So anyways, I go up there. So he's got this guy, Mark Owens was his name, good player, and, uh, real high gear. Maybe not the most steady player, but real high gear. So we're playing, we start off playing raises to nine or 10 or something for 1,000. So long story short, I got him 10,000 loser, okay? And it's 'cause we raised it and whatnot, and, uh, so now the whole town ... This is a small town, okay? Just up in the northeast corner of Tennessee. So the whole town starts coming in, and this is their hero. So my buddy starts taking bets on the side, you know? So now we- I got him 10,000 loser, and, uh, he says, "We wanna play a set for 10,000." This is what Frank says, the, the stakehorse. He says, "But we need to call eight." You know what the call eight is-

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:04:31 ... of course, right? So, uh, so I said, "Okay, yeah." So we're gonna race to ele- uh, no, race to 15. So we're betting about 10,000 on the side. Okay? So we're playing a set for like 20, all right, 'cause my buddy's got a list of bets this long with all the town people. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Yeah.

Jeremy Jones 1:04:49 So it's nine to eight me.

Joe Rogan 1:04:52 (clears throat)

Jeremy Jones 1:04:52 Instead of playing safe on the eight, I try to jack up off the end rail and stab it in and draw my ball, you know what I mean? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:04:57 And I, I bobble it. He makes it, he breaks and runs five racks. He's up 14 to nine. So now he breaks going to 15 and the four nine is wired over the spot. He makes an incredible shot on the one, he's got the three down the rail and he's just got a cupcake on the four nine. So I turned to my buddy and I said, "Man, we ain't got but like 8,000 left." You know? 'Cause we were-

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:05:19 ... in winner, we start off 1,000 a set. I said, "We can't lower the bet. You can't do that."

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:05:24 Then, then they know you're short.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:05:26 You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 Right. Right.

Jeremy Jones 1:05:27 Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, "What are we gonna do?" You know, we'll get more money tomorrow and whatever, right? So the pool table's here, right? He's shooting at this corner. Now, Frank is the only guy, he's sitting right here on a stool chair, right? Like a little school chair.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Jones 1:05:44 Everyone else is way back over