Joe Rogan Experience #2036 - Kurt Angle

1. 0:00 – 2:36

   Kurt Angle’s Olympic broken-neck story and the Novocain gamble

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) We're up with, uh, the greatest pro-wrestling fan in the history of the world, Tony Hinchcliffe, and the great and powerful Kurt Angle.

   4. KAKurt Angle0:18

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      It's an honor, sir. Thank you for being here, man.

   6. KAKurt Angle0:21

      Thanks for having me on, Joe.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Dude, I've been a fan of yours for a long time. You ... What you did in the Olympics with a broken neck is just nothing short of insane.

   8. KAKurt Angle0:30

      Yeah, y-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      How did you do that?

   10. KAKurt Angle0:32

       I didn't have a choice. I mean, uh, what happened was I got thrown on my head, uh, in the first round of the Olympic Trials.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Pull that microphone up close to you. There you go.

   12. KAKurt Angle0:38

       What happened was I got thrown on my head the first round of the Olympic Trials, and I broke my neck and I didn't know it, so I kept wrestling.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       (laughs)

   14. KAKurt Angle0:45

       My arms were numb, and, and my neck was in excruciating pain, and I wrestled through to semis and won, and then I had to go on to the finals and wrestle, and I won, I won there. So I won the first round of the Olympic Trials with my neck broken. I went home the next day, and I went to my doctor, and he took an MRI of my neck. He said, "You have four discs," or, "four broken vertebrae and two discs sticking directly in your spinal cord." He said, "You can't wrestle anymore. You're done."

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       (exhales loudly)

   16. KAKurt Angle1:09

       And I was devastated, man. I, I, I didn't know what to do. I, I figured I better get a second opinion.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       (laughs)

   18. KAKurt Angle1:14

       So I, I went to another doctor and he said basically the same thing, but he said, "When is the next round of the trials?" I said, "Six weeks." He said, "You know what? I might be able to get you ready by then." I said, "Well, what's your plan?" He said, "Well, we're gonna ... We're not, you're not gonna be able to train much. You're not g- You're gonna have to let your neck rest and heal for the next six weeks and it won't be completely healed, but it'll be healed enough that you can still go, and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna have a doctor travel with you, and this doctor's gonna stick you with 12 shots of Novocain in your neck five minutes before each one of your matches."

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       (laughs)

   20. KAKurt Angle1:44

       He said, "Therefore, you won't feel the pain, you'll forget your neck is broken, and you'll wrestle more freely." Uh, but, but he said, "I'm warning you, an hour after your matches are over, you're gonna be in excruciating pain from the abuse your neck takes during those matches." And he said, "Are you okay with this?" And I said yes, and it worked.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:59

       Wow.

   22. KAKurt Angle2:00

       Yeah, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       What a decision to make.

   24. KAKurt Angle2:02

       (laughs) Yeah. I didn't have a choice. I mean, uh, it was no guarantee I was gonna make the Olympic team, uh, in 2000 or 2004. This is my one time. This is my one shot.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:11

       Imagine those guys you beat-

   26. KAKurt Angle2:13

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       ... realizing a guy with a fucking broken neck just kicked my ass. (laughs)

   28. KAKurt Angle2:17

       (laughs) I never thought about that.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:20

       They're like, "Not only did he beat me, not only did he win, he won with a broken neck." Amazing.

   30. KAKurt Angle2:26

       Yeah. So I went to the Olympics and we did the same thing there.
2. 2:36 – 3:10

   Long-term damage: repeat neck breaks, failed surgeries, and nerve atrophy

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:36

      Did it heal up 100% or has it always been fucking with you since then?

   2. KAKurt Angle2:40

      Um, I always had problems with it. You know? Especially my, um, uh, my, um, motor skills in my hands. Um, uh, I broke my neck four more times-

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:49

      Geez.

   4. KAKurt Angle2:49

      ... in the WWE, and it got worse and worse. I mean, I have nerve damage in my neck. I don't have ... I lost three inches of in both arms from my, uh ... They atrophied, uh, because, uh, my neck was just so messed up, and I've had five surgeries and none of them have really worked. Uh, I'm gonna end up having to have fusion, which will be down the line.

3. 3:10 – 6:10

   Stem cells vs. disc replacement: exploring better options than fusion

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:10

      Have you done stem cells?

   2. KAKurt Angle3:12

      I tried. It didn't work.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:13

      It didn't do it?

   4. KAKurt Angle3:13

      No.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:13

      Where'd you go?

   6. KAKurt Angle3:14

      I went to, um, South America, um, I forget which, uh, which country. (laughs) I can't remem- Columbia.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:22

      Yeah.

   8. KAKurt Angle3:22

      Columbia, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:23

      Did you go to BioXcellerator? Did you go to that place?

   10. KAKurt Angle3:24

       Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Yeah. A lot of, lot of athletes, lot of fighters go down there.

   12. KAKurt Angle3:28

       Yeah, it didn't work for me.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       Really?

   14. KAKurt Angle3:30

       Unfortunately.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       Just so much damage, huh?

   16. KAKurt Angle3:31

       Yeah, yeah. Just too much.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       I wonder if you just kept going. Phew. So what's the extent of it now? Like ...

   18. KAKurt Angle3:39

       Um, I b- You know what? I, I can't feel my pinky fingers. Um, you know, I have a lot of atrophy in my arms. I, I don't have a lot of strength. I can curl for, like, 20-pound dumbbells. Uh, when I do, uh, triceps, I can only push the weights about 60 pounds forward. It's just, uh, I don't have a lot of strength in my upper body, and, uh, so, um, the thing is, uh, m- I ... All right, I, if you look at my chest right here, you'll see there's a dip here.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:08

       Yeah.

   20. KAKurt Angle4:08

       Okay? Th- that's from my neck. That's a nerve that died.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       Wow.

   22. KAKurt Angle4:12

       And no longer have this muscle in my chest. I have a, a complete ripple through my chest.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       Wow.

   24. KAKurt Angle4:17

       It'll never come back. And I'm afraid it's gonna happen again, so I'm gonna have to have fusion sooner than later, 'cause if I don't, the damage is gonna get worse and worse and then, you know, my arms are gonna end up just shrinking to nothing.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       Have you looked into replacement discs?

   26. KAKurt Angle4:32

       Ye- No, but (laughs) you know what? I just got, uh, uh, an email from a doctor in New York, and he told me he was doing it, and so I'm gonna call him, uh, i- in this next couple weeks to see if we can set up an appointment. So-

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       Aljamain Sterling, the former UFC bantamweight champion-

   28. KAKurt Angle4:48

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:48

       ... he injured his neck really badly and then got fouled in a title fight. Um, w- actually, it was very controversial because, uh, Petr Yan, the Russian cat who hit him, uh, with a knee to the head while he was down-

   30. KAKurt Angle5:01

       Mm-hmm.
4. 6:10 – 9:08

   Fusion cautionary tales and what a fused neck looks like in elite athletes

   1. KAKurt Angle6:10

      Y- you know what's crazy? I had a doctor when I f- broke my neck the second time, he wanted me to do fusion, and he told me that he, that he's gonna have to three levels and that I'd have to retire.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:21

      Hmm.

   3. KAKurt Angle6:21

      And I was like, "Uh, that might not be an option." It was the same doctor that Stone Cold Steve Austin had, and Steve still has problems to this day with the fusion he had.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:29

      Everybody I know that had-

   5. KAKurt Angle6:30

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:30

      ... fusion has real problems.

   7. KAKurt Angle6:32

      Yeah, and I, see, that's why I'm nervous about getting it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:34

      Yeah.

   9. KAKurt Angle6:34

      And that's why I'm glad I f- found this doctor in New York City that can do it. I, I didn't know it was, like, there, there was no... there was a doctor out there that could do that kinda stuff.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:44

       I'll connect you to Aljamain-

   11. KAKurt Angle6:45

       Okay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:45

       ... we'll find out who he used, but-

   13. KAKurt Angle6:47

       Okay.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       ... his results are excellent.

   15. KAKurt Angle6:49

       Okay, great.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:49

       I mean, he went on-

   17. KAKurt Angle6:50

       Great.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:50

       ... to defend the title.

   19. KAKurt Angle6:51

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       I mean, in, you know, wrestling, he's a wrestler, so, like, he got caught in neck cranks, guillotines-

   21. KAKurt Angle6:57

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:57

       ... fought his way out of stuff with this artificial disk.

   23. KAKurt Angle6:59

       That's crazy-

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       (sniffs) Yeah.

   25. KAKurt Angle7:00

       ... that he's, he's fighting with an artificial disk.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:02

       Fighting and winning-

   27. KAKurt Angle7:03

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:03

       Fighting and winning against the best in the world.

   29. KAKurt Angle7:05

       (laughs) That's ridiculous, man.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:06

       Yeah, incredible.
5. 9:08 – 11:31

   ‘Pro wrestling beats you up more’: plywood rings, injuries, and working hurt

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:08

      Like, it doesn't whip when he gets hit. You know, we've talked about this on the podcast so many times, but the, the, just the physical abuse that wrestlers take, both amateur wrestlers and then maybe even more so in the pro wrestling game.

   2. KAKurt Angle9:22

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:23

      It's crazy.

   4. KAKurt Angle9:24

      E- you know what? I, I've been injured a lot in amateur wrestling, a lot, but not... nothing compares to pro wrestling. I, I have been so beaten up there. I barely was ever 100% healthy. I, I would tear a hamstring or a groin or whatever. That, that'd be something small and, you know, i- it would dehabilitate me a little bit, but I was still able to work around it. You learn as a pro wrestler how to work around injuries. I actually wrestled Brock Lesnar in WrestleMania 19, the main event, with my neck broken.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:54

      (laughs)

   6. KAKurt Angle9:54

      Um, I, uh, I had to have surgery the following day.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:57

      Wow.

   8. KAKurt Angle9:58

      And, uh, yeah, so it, it's, it's, it's crazy, the, the... Pro wrestling is just ridiculous. Uh, you, you, you wrestle, you're on plywood. There's a, there's a, um, there's a cloth above it, but it's literally hard like plywood.

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:11

      Pshh.

   10. KAKurt Angle10:12

       You know? There's no spring under the ring or... it's not a box spring or a bed. It's plywood. That's what you bump on. It's crazy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       That's so crazy.

   12. KAKurt Angle10:19

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       Why do they do it that way?

   14. KAKurt Angle10:21

       I don't know. Because it makes a sound.

   15. THTony Hinchcliffe10:22

       Yeah, it makes-

   16. KAKurt Angle10:23

       It makes a loud sound (laughs) .

   17. THTony Hinchcliffe10:23

       ... a noise, like-

   18. KAKurt Angle10:23

       That's why they don't care-

   19. THTony Hinchcliffe10:24

       ... when you're-

   20. KAKurt Angle10:24

       ... about the, the health of people. They just care about the sound it makes (laughs) .

   21. THTony Hinchcliffe10:28

       When you're at one live, it doesn't really translate to TV as cool as it is live.

   22. KAKurt Angle10:32

       Yeah.

   23. THTony Hinchcliffe10:33

       You hear that pop and they probably... I think they have microphones underneath and stuff-

   24. KAKurt Angle10:36

       Oh, they have, they have microphones under there, yeah.

   25. THTony Hinchcliffe10:37

       ... that, that accelerate it through the speakers.

   26. KAKurt Angle10:39

       Yeah.

   27. THTony Hinchcliffe10:39

       And like, "Boom! Boom!"

   28. KAKurt Angle10:41

       Yeah.

   29. THTony Hinchcliffe10:41

       It's very, very exciting.

   30. KAKurt Angle10:43

       (laughs)
6. 11:31 – 19:57

   Brock Lesnar stories: the real-athlete test, the botched shooting star press, and neck breaks

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:31

      I don't know. Uh, I think they're definitely going to cross-promote. What I'm interested to see is, like, you know, obviously Brock was the most successful pro wrestler-

   2. KAKurt Angle11:38

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:38

      ... to ever compete in MMA. Will we... And CM Punk tried it. Uh, I'm gonna be interested to see how many other guys... Bobby Lashley did it. How many other guys are gonna try it?

   4. KAKurt Angle11:48

      I c-... When I v-... look at that partnership, I see a lot of fighters crossing over to wrestling.

   5. THTony Hinchcliffe11:53

      Yeah.

   6. KAKurt Angle11:53

      But I don't see many wrestlers (laughs) crossing over-

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:56

      Yeah.

   8. KAKurt Angle11:56

      ... to fighting.

   9. THTony Hinchcliffe11:56

      Right.

   10. KAKurt Angle11:56

       I mean, that's a completely different beast.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:58

       Yeah.

   12. THTony Hinchcliffe11:58

       (laughs)

   13. KAKurt Angle11:59

       I, I don't think there are many wrestlers that could go in there and mix it up with those guys.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:03

       Well, that's what's so sensational about Brock.

   15. KAKurt Angle12:05

       It is. He, he... You know what? He's adapted to everything in his life. Eh, the kid is unbelievable. Hi- for his size, he's 310 pounds, he's the best athlete I've ever been in a ring with.I mean, he's explosive, he's quick, he's fast. He's strong as hell. Um, I, I, I actually, I did wrestle him one time for real, and, uh, it- it- it, the thing was, what happened was, uh, when he came up, uh, from training from OVW, uh, someone went up to him and asked him if, how he'd do against Kurt Angle. He said, "I kick his ass."

   16. THTony Hinchcliffe12:37

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       (laughs)

   18. KAKurt Angle12:37

       So (laughs) , okay, they're stirring the, the pot, you know? They're getting shit rolling. So the guy comes to me and says, "Hey, Brock said he could beat you in a wrestle match." So I went up to Brock and I said, "Hey, l- let's get in the ring right now." And he said, "No, no, I have sandals on." I said, "Let's take our shoes off." I said, "We'll go barefoot." He said, "No." So I let it go for the week. The following week, he was in the ring with Big Show, and they were wrestling for real, and Big Show was about 530 pounds at the time.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:02

       (laughs)

   20. THTony Hinchcliffe13:03

       (sighs)

   21. KAKurt Angle13:03

       Brock was double-legged him, picking him up and slamming him. I'm like, "Holy shit."

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       (laughs)

   23. KAKurt Angle13:07

       Like, "I don't know if I can beat this guy." (laughs) Right?

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       (laughs)

   25. KAKurt Angle13:10

       So Big Show was facing me. He was on the other side of Brock, and Brock's back was to me, and I said, "Big Show, get out." And he gets out, and I sneak up behind Brock and I tap him on the shoulder and I go, "It's time to go." So we went, and we went for about 15 minutes, and, you know, the wrestlers tell you that I kicked his ass, that I dominated him, but that's not true. I, I beat him, but I didn't beat him ... like, I took him down twice. He didn't take me down at all. I mean, it wasn't like a dominating performance.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:36

       (laughs)

   27. KAKurt Angle13:36

       I, I did beat him, but, you know, he- he's, he's the real deal.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:40

       Oh, he's the real deal?

   29. KAKurt Angle13:40

       He really is, yeah. You know what? I'm surprised he didn't train for the Olympics. I really am.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:44

       Hmm.
7. 19:57 – 23:26

   The WWE grind: 260–320 shows/year and why MMA never happened

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:57

      The fact that you do, like, how many nights, how many hou- how many nights a year were you wrestling?

   2. KAKurt Angle20:01

      (exhales loudly) Uh, we were probably going 260, 270.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:05

      (exhales loudly)

   4. KAKurt Angle20:06

      Um, I mean, there was a time in WWE where they were going 320.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:10

      Gosh.

   6. KAKurt Angle20:10

      Uh, it was- it was ridiculous. They- they were going, uh, seven days a week and doing nine shows, so they would do five Monday through Friday, and then they would do four in the weekend, they'd do a double shot on the weekends. That's how it was back in the '80s and '90s. But, uh, around 2000 is when they changed it and they started having five shows a week, so you had two days off. Usually one day was a travel day, so you really had one day off where you were home. (exhales loudly)

   7. THTony Hinchcliffe20:36

      And on top of all that, at your level, those are longer matches, you know? It's not even a normal thing. You were doing that main event-

   8. KAKurt Angle20:42

      No, if you're in the main event level, yeah-

   9. THTony Hinchcliffe20:43

      ... at WrestleMania.

   10. KAKurt Angle20:45

       ... you're gonna have a lot longer matches, yeah.

   11. THTony Hinchcliffe20:45

       Like those are 35 minutes or an hour-

   12. KAKurt Angle20:48

       Yeah.

   13. THTony Hinchcliffe20:48

       ... or 50 minutes or 40 minutes-

   14. KAKurt Angle20:50

       Yeah, yeah. Instead of 8, 10, 12.

   15. THTony Hinchcliffe20:50

       ... of putting on the biggest show.

   16. KAKurt Angle20:52

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:53

       I know there was a time where people were talking to you about competing in MMA.

   18. KAKurt Angle20:57

       Yes. (laughs) You know what? I've got this story, uh, wrong so many times. (laughs) Yeah, I... Dana and I have been on the opposite ends of the spectrum with this thing, but now I think I got it right. Like, there were things I would leave out and, uh, you know, but- but Dana treated me really well. I'm not gonna lie to you. He- he- he gave... He offered me a couple of deals. Um, the thing is, the second time, the first time I won't even talk about. The second time, he wanted me to go, uh, into, go on the show Ultimate Fighter with Kimbo Slice, and, uh, see, he's... And I said, "Dana, those guys don't get paid." (laughs) "They're on- they're on that show for free." I said, "I need to get paid." He said, "Well, I'll give you a substantial amount of money." So he- he was gonna pay me to be on the show, but he said, "If you win, you're gonna get a six-fight deal, and if you lose, I'll probably still give you a six-fight deal because I think you're gonna be really good." And, uh, he said, "But I need you to take a physical." I said, "Okay, let's take the physical." Well, I took the physical, and I- I didn't pass it. So I'm glad I didn't because my neck and all this stuff, it... I broke my neck five times up until this point when I went to see Dana.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:04

       (exhales loudly)

   20. KAKurt Angle22:05

       And, uh, my- I couldn't do five push-ups.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:07

       Wow.

   22. KAKurt Angle22:08

       And here I am, I wanna fight with these world-class fighters and- and my neck is, like, so messed up, my arms, I can't- I can't do push-ups, I can't do anything, and, uh, I- I- I would've got my butt handed to me. I mean, I- I don't even... I might've been, I might've ended up getting paralyzed, to be honest with you.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:24

       Oh, no.

   24. KAKurt Angle22:24

       I was in no shape or condition to be able to compete with those guys.

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:28

       (exhales loudly)

   26. KAKurt Angle22:29

       Uh, and I was full of myself, and I'm glad I failed the physical. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:33

       God.

   28. KAKurt Angle22:33

       'Cause I probably woulda- woulda went through with it.

   29. THTony Hinchcliffe22:36

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:37

       Sh- that's a different mentality. That is a different mentality. The men... I mean, you wanna talk about toughness? The toughness of pro wrestlers, the mentality that you have to have to be able to do 260-plus nights a year, that's insane.
8. 23:26 – 27:14

   Painkiller addiction begins: escalating Vicodin use and personal tragedy

   1. KAKurt Angle23:26

      Well, uh, we'll get into this topic, I guess. Um, after I broke my neck the second time, the first time in WWE, I was introduced to painkillers and, um-

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:36

      Hmm.

   3. KAKurt Angle23:37

      ... uh, when I started taking them, I- I really liked it. (laughs) I mean, it- it- it- it masked the pain, I couldn't feel the pain. It kinda gave me an energetic feel. Uh, it didn't make me feel nauseous like it does a lot of people, and I started taking them. I was taking one every four to six hours like I was told, but after a while, you build a tolerance and one doesn't work anymore, then you have to take two, then two led to four, four led to eight.

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:59

      Was this OxyContins?

   5. KAKurt Angle24:00

      Uh, this was just extra-strength Vicodin. OxyContins are a lot more powerful than the Vicodin, but I was taking 65 extra-strength Vicodin a day.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:09

      Whoa.

   7. THTony Hinchcliffe24:10

      Whoa.

   8. KAKurt Angle24:10

      That's how out of control I got.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:12

      (exhales loudly)

   10. KAKurt Angle24:12

       And I was hiding it from the company.

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:13

       (exhales loudly) Wow.

   12. KAKurt Angle24:14

       And- and, I mean, it was... I was in serious trouble.

   13. JRJoe Rogan24:18

       And does that even make you high at that point or does it just keep you from going into withdrawals?

   14. KAKurt Angle24:24

       Okay, it kept me from going through withdrawals, but there were times where I passed out. I mean, the- the company knew, um...... some of my friends knew. Um, you know, I- I- I'll give you an example. I, I, um ... there was one point, th- this is how h- how bad it got. Um, there was one point in my career where, uh, I, uh, my brother called me. I was at a house show, an untelevised show for WWE. It was the night before I was going to have the biggest match of my career with Brock Lesnar the next day. It was an Iron Man match on SmackDown. And, um, my brother calls me and says, "Hey, your sister just died of a heroin overdose." And it, it crushed me. I mean, I- I- I was, I was crying. I, I was in such pain thinking about my sister who was only 40 years old, dying from a heroin overdose. And the thing is, I wasn't able to talk to her because I told her eight months prior, "If she doesn't get clean, I'm gonna, um, I'm not gonna talk to you." So I didn't talk to her for eight months, and then this happens.

   15. GCGuest co-host25:28

       Oh.

   16. KAKurt Angle25:29

       And I was ... so here I am, I'm in the hotel room and I look at my pills and I said, "Fuck it." I took 20 of them, threw them in my mouth, chewed them up and swallowed them.

   17. GCGuest co-host25:40

       Oh my God.

   18. KAKurt Angle25:41

       I didn't wake up till 5 o'clock in the afternoon next day.

   19. GCGuest co-host25:44

       Wow.

   20. KAKurt Angle25:44

       And I had the biggest match of my career that day.

   21. GCGuest co-host25:46

       Oh my God.

   22. THTony Hinchcliffe25:46

       That night?

   23. KAKurt Angle25:47

       Yeah.

   24. THTony Hinchcliffe25:47

       So what time did you have to be to the arena, and did you do it?

   25. KAKurt Angle25:49

       Well, we had to be there at 1:00, but I didn't get there till 5:30.

   26. THTony Hinchcliffe25:52

       Right.

   27. KAKurt Angle25:52

       Yeah. But, um, yeah, I ended up doing it. Uh, the WWE was trying to call me the whole time. They were like, they wanted to tell me that, "Hey, you can go home, plan a funeral for your sister. You don't have to do this match." But I kept thinking, "I know my sister would want me to." And, and, and, and I knew that I, I wouldn't have to feel that pain of losing my sister, at least for that hour.

   28. THTony Hinchcliffe26:14

       Yeah.

   29. KAKurt Angle26:14

       So I, I g- went ahead and did it, and i- it was actually one of my best performances of my career, which is kinda crazy, but, uh, that was, that was a really rough time, man. The painkillers are the one thing that I do regret I did in the company. I wish I was never introduced to them.

   30. GCGuest co-host26:30

       But do you think you had to take them? I mean, it sounds like you were in such excruciating pain all the time.
9. 27:14 – 31:20

   Rock bottom: doctor-shopping, Xanax + alcohol, DUIs, and rehab withdrawal

   1. GCGuest co-host27:14

      How'd you get off of them?

   2. KAKurt Angle27:16

      (exhales) Okay. Uh, well, what happened was, I left the WWE because they wanted me to go to rehab and I didn't want to go, so I ended up going to another company called Impact Wrestling. And I, I got my painkiller problem under control there because I got ... I found a doctor that got me on MS-Cont. They're two, um, um, uh, morphine pills. They're very tiny, but they'll, they'll keep you from going through withdrawal. So I would take one in the morning, one at night, and no more painkillers. They were painkor- killers because they were morphine, but they were high dose, it was just two of them that I had to take. Well, I started having anxiety about breaking my neck over and over again, so they s- they put me on Xanax.

   3. GCGuest co-host27:54

      Oh, Jesus.

   4. KAKurt Angle27:54

      So now I'm taking Xanax and then I w- I switched to, to TNA, Impact Wrestling, and everybody drank there, so I started drinking alcohol. So I'm mixing, having these t- cocktails and I'm, I'm so out of control that I'm driving, okay, from town to town drinking a 12-pack of beer, and I got four DUIs in five years.

   5. GCGuest co-host28:15

      Oh, my God.

   6. THTony Hinchcliffe28:15

      Wow.

   7. KAKurt Angle28:15

      I lost my reputation, everything I worked for. I was at the lowest point in my life and, uh, I remember calling my wife from jail after my fourth DUI and she said, "Listen, I can't do this anymore. You either go to rehab or I'm taking the kids and I'm leaving." And I ... so I went to rehab because I didn't want to lose my wife and my kids. And I was scared in rehab. I, I l- I literally thought ... I was so nervous, uh, the- first of all, the withdrawal was the worst experience I ever had. I'll never go through that again because I'm never gonna take another painkiller. That was the worst thing I've ever done. Or drink another drop of alcohol. Uh, that, that was the absolute worst thing I've, I've ever been through. And, um ... I forget what I was gonna say though, but, uh ...

   8. GCGuest co-host28:54

      So with the rehab, do they ... how do they get you off of it? They don't do it cold turkey, right? How do they-

   9. KAKurt Angle28:59

      (laughs)

   10. GCGuest co-host29:00

       Do they?

   11. KAKurt Angle29:01

       Yes, they do.

   12. GCGuest co-host29:02

       Do they?

   13. KAKurt Angle29:02

       Yes, they do. I thought they were gonna wean me off. (laughs)

   14. GCGuest co-host29:03

       Yeah, that's what I thought too or something. (laughs)

   15. KAKurt Angle29:05

       Um, they put you in a room and let you sleep and they check on you every couple of hours and, uh, it took me-

   16. GCGuest co-host29:09

       How many days?

   17. KAKurt Angle29:10

       ... about six days for me to go through the withdrawal symptoms.

   18. GCGuest co-host29:13

       Oh my God.

   19. KAKurt Angle29:14

       I- it seemed like forever, seemed like six months.

   20. GCGuest co-host29:16

       So six days, you just in a room by yourself?

   21. KAKurt Angle29:18

       Yep.

   22. GCGuest co-host29:19

       Just thinking?

   23. KAKurt Angle29:19

       Yeah.

   24. GCGuest co-host29:20

       Oh, God.

   25. KAKurt Angle29:21

       And, and you know what? And, and you want to stay in there. And they, they start forcing you out. "You got, you gotta come move around. You gotta come out and talk to people. You gotta, you know, live your life." And you don't ... (laughs) you, you're so exhausted for the first two and a half weeks, I didn't want to move. I just wanted to stay in my bed.

   26. GCGuest co-host29:37

       Wow.

   27. KAKurt Angle29:37

       But they were forcing me to get out of bed and, and being, uh, c- converse, conversa- or conversating with people and trying to, you know, go and eat and go to meetings and do all that stuff you do in rehab. So it was, it was really tough.

   28. GCGuest co-host29:51

       How long did it take before you felt normal?

   29. KAKurt Angle29:54

       Um, well, (sighs) I would say two weeks where I really felt normal. But the, the thing is, the last two weeks, because I spent a month in rehab, the last two weeks I was so nervous that I was gonna fuck up again. Like, I, I, I literally didn't want to leave rehab. (laughs) I was scared that I was gonna go back to it right when I got out.

   30. GCGuest co-host30:14

       So many guys do. It's so crazy.
10. 31:20 – 46:47

    Opiate crisis and medical-business incentives: how the system creates addicts

    1. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       Have you seen that Painkiller show on Netflix?

    2. KAKurt Angle31:22

       I watched some of it, yeah. Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan31:25

       (sighs) Fucking what they did to this country is so crazy.

    4. KAKurt Angle31:28

       Oh, I know. Uh, they, they were advertising it, "Hey, this is the best drug since whatever," and, you know, "This will keep you, uh, you know, keep you moving every day and give you a healthy lifestyle." Meanwhile, they didn't tell you that they're opiates and they're addictive-

    5. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Yeah.

    6. KAKurt Angle31:42

       ... and that they, they could kill you.

    7. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       Yeah.

    8. KAKurt Angle31:44

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       The one to t- start and the one to stay with. What was the, the slogan that they used, Jamie? Do you remember? We talked to Peter Berg, who made that show.

    10. KAKurt Angle31:52

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JRJoe Rogan31:53

        And, you know, he had to, obviously he had to do a lot of research on the Sackler family and what they did and how they engineered this and how they knew that... They, I mean, people weren't just taking painkillers back then, it wasn't a normal thing.

    12. KAKurt Angle32:05

        Right, right.

    13. JRJoe Rogan32:05

        You know? Like when I was a ki- We talked about this at... When I was a kid, for someone to take heroin was crazy.

    14. KAKurt Angle32:11

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan32:11

        When you found out someone was taking heroin-

    16. KAKurt Angle32:12

        (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan32:12

        ... you're like, "Jesus Christ, Mike's taking heroin?"

    18. KAKurt Angle32:15

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan32:15

        But when the, those pills came around, because it was prescribed by a doctor, everybody's like, "It's fine. It's okay."

    20. KAKurt Angle32:22

        Y- I thought it was too. That, that, you know, I s- th- this is legal-

    21. JRJoe Rogan32:25

        Yeah.

    22. KAKurt Angle32:25

        ... my doctor's giving it to me, this is what I need. And, but I knew, you know, after I started taking more than four and I was taking five, six, seven, eight, I knew I wasn't doing the right thing.

    23. JRJoe Rogan32:36

        (exhales)

    24. KAKurt Angle32:36

        I knew that I was going against what the doctors wanted.

    25. JRJoe Rogan32:39

        Right.

    26. KAKurt Angle32:39

        'Cause, uh, you know what I would do? I, I literally... I had 12 doctors that I was calling.

    27. JRJoe Rogan32:44

        Oh!

    28. KAKurt Angle32:45

        Okay? So (laughs) I, and I had 12 different pharmacies, 'cause you can't go to the same pharmacy twice in one month.

    29. JRJoe Rogan32:50

        Oh, my God.

    30. KAKurt Angle32:51

        Okay? And, and then I had a Mexican, uh, contact where I got them illegally. So I was getting-
11. 46:47 – 53:37

    12 years clean: surgeries, knee replacements without painkillers, and current training limits

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:47

       So how many years have you been clean now?

    2. KAKurt Angle46:49

       12. 12 years.

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:50

       That's awesome.

    4. KAKurt Angle46:51

       Yeah. Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:51

       Congratulations.

    6. KAKurt Angle46:52

       Yep.

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       That must be very nice.

    8. KAKurt Angle46:54

       Yeah, it's nice. You know, uh, I, I don't have a lot of, um... Thank God, I don't, I don't have a lot of triggers anymore. Uh, I used to when I had... Because I was in, going through a lot of pain and, uh, I had my knees replaced, I had my back surgery, so I'm actually on the mend now.

    9. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       Wow.

    10. KAKurt Angle47:09

        I've had-

    11. JRJoe Rogan47:09

        When did you have your knees replaced?

    12. KAKurt Angle47:10

        I've had the shoulder replaced too. Um, I had them replaced a year ago and, uh...

    13. JRJoe Rogan47:15

        How'd that go?

    14. KAKurt Angle47:16

        Really good. Really good. I, I was literally... The doctor, my doctor is really progressive, like he, he, he got me out of bed the day of surgery, had me walking around. (laughs)

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:27

        Wow.

    16. KAKurt Angle47:27

        It was ridiculous. Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan47:28

        Did you do one at a time or both at the same time?

    18. KAKurt Angle47:30

        Both at the same time.

    19. JRJoe Rogan47:31

        Oh my God. So you're walking around-

    20. KAKurt Angle47:33

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan47:33

        ... with two new knees?

    22. KAKurt Angle47:34

        I left the hospital without using anything. I walked out of the hospital-

    23. JRJoe Rogan47:37

        Holy jeez.

    24. KAKurt Angle47:38

        ... the next day. Yeah. Yeah, and he wanted me to walk up the steps and down the steps and-

    25. JRJoe Rogan47:42

        Wow.

    26. KAKurt Angle47:43

        ... it was crazy. I mean, I, uh, it didn't take me long to recover though. Probably four or five months. It usually takes a year, but I did it in probably four or five months.

    27. JRJoe Rogan47:52

        Wow.

    28. KAKurt Angle47:53

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan47:54

        Wow. And with no painkillers?

    30. KAKurt Angle47:56

        No painkillers. No.
12. 53:37 – 59:41

    Life after wrestling: movies, podcasting, and building a supplement/snack brand

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:37

       What are you doing these days to keep yourself occupied?

    2. KAKurt Angle53:40

       Uh, well, I just, uh, finished a movie called Thy Will Be Done. It's a really good in- independent movie. And I have a movie that I'm gonna be doing at the beginning of next year with, uh, Michael Kendris Jr., uh, Brandi Couture is gonna be in it.

    3. JRJoe Rogan53:55

       Oh, that's awesome.

    4. KAKurt Angle53:55

       Um, yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. So I've been doing some of that stuff. Uh, I run a podcast, uh, The Kurt Angle Show. (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:03

       Oh, nice.

    6. KAKurt Angle54:04

       Um, yeah. And, uh, I also own a supplement company. I have, uh, a thing called, um, a company called Physically Fit and, um, we have a product called Smart Snacks. They're, um, little crispy protein bites. Um, there are a bunch of flavors, 11 different flavors. They're, they're really good high-protein, low-carbohydrate. Uh, they're doing pretty well. Right now, um, we're, uh, we're gonna go... We're going into Walmart. Uh, we're in, we're in the Kwik, uh, Kwik Fill Stores, uh, all the... A bunch of grocery stores, a bunch of, uh, convenience stores. So they're, they're doing okay, so, um-

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:41

       Do you got a website that people can go to, to get that?

    8. KAKurt Angle54:42

       Yeah, physicallyfit.com.

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:44

       Oh.

    10. KAKurt Angle54:45

        Physicallyfit.com.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:45

        How'd you get that?

    12. KAKurt Angle54:46

        (laughs)

    13. THTony Hinchcliffe54:47

        (laughs)

    14. JRJoe Rogan54:47

        That's incredible.

    15. KAKurt Angle54:49

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan54:49

        How'd you get that? I- that's a fucking incredible URL.

    17. THTony Hinchcliffe54:52

        (laughs)

    18. KAKurt Angle54:53

        It is. You know what? The- that, that's what people, when they look when they wanna get in shape, the first thing they type up is, "How do I get physically fit?"

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:00

        Yeah.

    20. KAKurt Angle55:00

        And we're the fis- first thing that pops up. It, it was clever on my, uh, co-owners' part to do that.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:05

        That's very clever.

    22. KAKurt Angle55:06

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:06

        So what are those, uh, Chixn... What is that?... how do you say that?

    24. KAKurt Angle55:09

        Uh, chicken snacks. (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:11

        Chicken snacks.

    26. KAKurt Angle55:11

        Yeah. Um, tho- those are, uh, those are chicken protein.

    27. JRJoe Rogan55:15

        Oh.

    28. KAKurt Angle55:15

        They're made wi- from, with chicken. The ones, uh, Whey Protein at the top, those are whey protein. Um, and, uh, I believe, I think they're whey protein. They might be the organic plant protein, but I can't-

    29. JRJoe Rogan55:29

        Crispy Protein Bites. So y- you sell all kinds of stuff.

    30. KAKurt Angle55:33

        Yeah, well, we just sell the Protein Bites.
13. 59:41 – 1:04:40

    Identity, retirement depression, and Tony’s Ric Flair night-out story

    1. JRJoe Rogan59:41

       Yeah. It's gotta be hard when your whole identity is wrapped up in pro wrestling, to just stop. How difficult was it for you to just stop wrestling?

    2. KAKurt Angle59:51

       It, it was hard. I mean, when you leave, you get depressed. Um, you miss the action, you miss the fans' responses. Um, it, it's, it... I g- I understand why, you know, a lot of wrestlers have, uh, fell into depression, um, that, uh, start taking drugs, uh, ended their lives a lot quicker than, you know, other, um, professions. Um, but, but it, it is. It's, it's a very, it's a very addictive, uh, form of entertainment. I mean, once you're in it, you love it, and you never wanna leave it. And, uh, the problem is, everybody gets to an age where they can't do it anymore. So you-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:33

       Yeah.

    4. KAKurt Angle1:00:33

       ... you have to come to grips with it. If you don't, you know, you're probably not gonna survive much longer.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

       Well, look at Ric Flair.

    6. KAKurt Angle1:00:38

       Ric... (laughs) You know what? He's living the dream. He, he's still Ric Flair every day.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:44

       He is Ric Flair.

    8. KAKurt Angle1:00:44

       He's just not wrestling in the ring. He's just doing it in streets everywhere, you know? Woo!

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

       It is unbelievable.

    10. THTony Hinchcliffe1:00:48

        He's like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

        Tell the story about how you were partying with him the other day.

    12. THTony Hinchcliffe1:00:51

        Dude, so-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

        (laughs)

    14. THTony Hinchcliffe1:00:53

        ... so he's in town, and, uh, he hits me up on a Sunday at like noon. He's like, "Let's, let's hit the streets tonight, show me the city. Let's, uh, have some drinks and pick up some babes." I'm like, "Okay."

    15. KAKurt Angle1:01:06

        (laughs)

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

        (laughs)

    17. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:07

        He, he goes, "I'm done with this comic book signing at 5:00 PM." I'm like, "Sweet, I'll meet you at 5:00." About a half hour later, he goes, "I'm gonna be done with the comic book signing at 1:30."

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

        (laughs)

    19. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:18

        (laughs)

    20. KAKurt Angle1:01:18

        That's Ric. (laughs)

    21. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:20

        So I go, I go-

    22. KAKurt Angle1:01:21

        He shafted the feds three and a half hours.

    23. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:24

        I go-

    24. KAKurt Angle1:01:24

        Oh, man. (laughs)

    25. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:26

        (laughs) I go, "Okay. I'll meet you. Uh, where do you want me to meet you?" He's like, "At this hotel bar." I go to this hotel. I, I say... I find the first, like, security guy I know. I go, "Where's the bar?" And he points like that. It was just right over his shoulder. And I just see that white, flanking hair.

    26. KAKurt Angle1:01:42

        (laughs) Yeah.

    27. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:43

        And there are, on each side of him, three and three, just flight attendants, fucking nurses.

    28. KAKurt Angle1:01:50

        (laughs)

    29. THTony Hinchcliffe1:01:51

        I mean, just a gaggle of geese. And I'm walking up, and I'm like, "This is, like, what you... what I've heard about forever."

    30. KAKurt Angle1:01:59

        (laughs)
14. 1:04:40 – 1:10:34

    How Kurt entered WWE: turning down Vince, failed sportscasting, and learning promos the hard way

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:04:40

       Yeah. Well, he and a lo- a lot of these guys, they did, like, the small circuit, and then they came up, and then they eventually got to WWE, or the WWF back then. You went from the Olympics-

    2. KAKurt Angle1:04:55

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:04:56

       ... right into, like, the big time.

    4. KAKurt Angle1:04:58

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:04:59

       Did you do any small shows to prepare?

    6. KAKurt Angle1:05:01

       No.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:05:02

       Nothing?

    8. KAKurt Angle1:05:02

       Um, okay. Uh, the, the crazy thing was I didn't even watch pro wrestling.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:05:07

       Wow.

    10. KAKurt Angle1:05:08

        So I was relatively new. W- When I called the WWE in 1998, they offered me a contract in 1996, right after the Olympics. I went up, I met with Vince, and he gave me a multimillion-dollar deal, and, uh, threw it on the desk, and he said, "Hey, 10-year deal, let's do it." I said, "Can I go home and think about it?" So I went home, and went to my agent, and he grabbed the contract, he threw it in the trash. He was a former amateur wrestler, also an NFL football player, former NFL player. His name's Rob Sindrich. So he said, "You're not gonna do that crap. You're the real deal. I'll get you a better job." (laughs) So he gets me a job as a sportscaster in Pittsburgh for Fox. And, uh, it was the worst experience of my life. I mean, I was... I was really bad. Uh-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:05:52

        (laughs)

    12. KAKurt Angle1:05:52

        (laughs) And the thing is, it was a startup station, so I didn't get to rehearse.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:05:57

        Oh.

    14. KAKurt Angle1:05:57

        So the first night on the air, here I am, I'm, I'm anchoring the sports, and my teleprompter goes out. And my scripts, when I went into the s- the studio, I ran to the producer, and they all went up in the air and fell out of order.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:06:10

        (laughs)

    16. KAKurt Angle1:06:11

        So when I put them down, they were out of order. So I'm looking at the teleprompter. The producer says, "Just look at the teleprompter. Don't look at anything else, just read it." And I go to read it, and it goes black. It goes out.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:06:21

        Wow.

    18. KAKurt Angle1:06:22

        And I'm just sitting there for, like, a minute.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:06:23

        (laughs)

    20. KAKurt Angle1:06:23

        And the producer says, "Kurt, say something. Say anything."

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:06:26

        (laughs)

    22. KAKurt Angle1:06:26

        (laughs) So I remembered, like, the first story was Duquesne basketball, uh, "They play tonight. Let's go to the highlights," 'cause I didn't know what else to say. And, uh, so the next ev- the next sport I was... I had to guess what it was. And I guessed it was baseball, and it was actually football.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:06:43

        (laughs)

    24. KAKurt Angle1:06:43

        So the whole segment turned out to be a disaster.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:06:46

        Ugh.

    26. KAKurt Angle1:06:46

        That was my first night on the air.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:06:47

        You had to guess. (laughs)

    28. KAKurt Angle1:06:48

        And it didn't get, didn't get any better. So anyway, so I spent a year there. So at... And at the end of 1997, I started watching WWE, and I fell in love with a character named Stone Cold Steve Austin. Uh, he, he was just...... kicking ass. I mean, he was, he, you know, he's flipping off his boss. I thought he was the coolest thing in the world. And so, um, I decided to call the WWE in early 1998 and I said, uh, "Does that contract still stand from 1996?" They said, "No, but you can come up and try out." So, I went up and tried out. After the first day, I picked up on it pretty quickly, so they gave me a contract, and I trained for about seven months, and they literally, they, they had me training, the first three months was a week a month, where I just went up to WWE. I went into their, uh, studio, and I would train with a couple wrestlers. And, uh, so I'd only do that one, one week a month for three months. Then the following four months, they sent me to ve-, uh, Memphis, to a smaller territory down in Memphis, and I worked there for four months, where I did one TV a week for four months, and, uh, then Vince brought me up onto TV. I was only work- training for seven months. I wasn't ready to be on TV, and he wanted me to go on TV at that point in time. So, I was like, "Vince, I, (laughs) you want me to cut a promo tonight? I, I don't even know how to cut a promo." I didn't learn that down in Memphis. I, I, I barely, I did one or two promos in Memphis, and they were horrible. And now Vince wants me to cut a promo for five minutes, and he, and he, and he's gonna tell me it. He's not even gonna write it down. He's gonna tell me what it is, and he wants me to go out there and do it. I'm like, "Holy shit. There, there's no way." So I said, "Well, okay, good. Tell me the promo." So he starts talking, and the whole time I'm just thinking, "This is fucking long. This is really fucking long."

Episode duration: 2:34:44