Joe Rogan Experience #2038 - Trae Tha Truth

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

Trae Tha Truth 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (energetic music)

Narrator 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Joe Rogan 0:12 What's up, Trey? Good to see you.

Trae Tha Truth 0:13 Cool. And what's up, my brother?

Joe Rogan 0:15 Hey, uh, I got a question for you and everyone who wears grills. All right, I got Invisalign on, and I'm trying to talk with Invisalign. And every time I've tried it, I bailed out of it. How the fuck do you talk so clear with a grill on?

Trae Tha Truth 0:27 (laughs) I think we just get used to it, especially from Houston. You know, it's just our culture.

Joe Rogan 0:31 Yeah, I wanna meet Paul Wall and ask him. He seems like the, the guy who understands grills more than anybody. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 0:37 (laughs) Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 0:38 'Cause, like, Post Malone had one on, and then you hear him sing and talk, and he sounds perfect. But I, I can hear it in my voice.

Trae Tha Truth 0:45 Can you hear it?

Jamie Vernon 0:45 His might be implanted. I don't know if his was a grill, like ...

Joe Rogan 0:49 Implanted?

Jamie Vernon 0:50 Like, like with the ears.

Joe Rogan 0:52 Oh, like where they, they, they dig into your teeth and glue it in there?

Jamie Vernon 0:54 Like the... Yeah. I think so. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:55 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 0:56 Yeah. I ain't hit that phase yet. No.

Joe Rogan 0:57 How's yours on? Did your slides in, and you can slide it out?

Trae Tha Truth 1:00 Yeah, yeah. I don't eat with 'em. I just keep 'em on throughout the day.

Joe Rogan 1:03 Do you ever leave it somewhere accidentally?

Trae Tha Truth 1:05 Never.

Joe Rogan 1:06 Never.

Trae Tha Truth 1:06 But that's something people do a lot. They used to always ... Coming up younger, they used to put 'em in napkins or put it in their pocket and allow them to throw 'em away and everything.

Joe Rogan 1:14 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 1:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15 Yeah, I already lost one like that.

Trae Tha Truth 1:17 Yeah, a lot of people did.

Joe Rogan 1:18 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 1:18 But I'm good with grills now.

Joe Rogan 1:20 But I didn't lose a grill. I just lost Invisalign, so I'm saying. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 1:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:22 That's like (laughs) the wimpiest version of a grill. So what's happening, man? How you doing?

Trae Tha Truth 1:27 Man, blessed. Just in, in work mode in all aspects, man.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Work mode. What's work mode for you? Like, what, what happens?

Trae Tha Truth 1:34 It depends on which world 'cause, you know, of course music-wise, that's my first and foremost, but then the hometown hero side, and then just helping people and being a daddy is just work all around the clock.

Joe Rogan 1:47 Right. Right.

Trae Tha Truth 1:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:49 What is this hometown hero stuff?

Trae Tha Truth 1:51 Uh, that's what they label me, you know. Well, they label me that in Houston, but now it's got to the point they label me that everywhere just for the, the help I do, whether it be hurricane disasters, whether it be just assisting with people, whether it be frontline for the community, whether it be fighting for justice, whether it be just assisting and, and caring for the, the town the way that I do. You know, my son name Houston. That's how much Houston I am.

Joe Rogan 2:20 Wow.

Trae Tha Truth 2:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22 Yeah. It was fun seeing you backstage at the Post Malone concert.

Trae Tha Truth 2:25 Yeah. That's one of my little brothers, man. People, a lot of people don't realize the history with me and a lot of artists. Like, I remember when Post was first coming up. That's how far back we go, man. I always been supportive and just always had his back. So, you know, it's been that way with a lot of artists. So whenever they see me, it be super excitement.

Joe Rogan 2:45 Yeah. No, it's cool. It's cool to see that respect.

Trae Tha Truth 2:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:48 It's, uh, it's like a thing. You gotta stop in and check in with Trey when you come to Houston. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 2:53 (laughs) But, you know, it ain't ... It's not the, it's not the forceful way. It's more of a, "That's their only guy."

Joe Rogan 2:57 No, no, a love way.

Trae Tha Truth 2:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:58 Yeah. No, it's a-

Trae Tha Truth 2:59 For sure.

Joe Rogan 2:59 It's a nice way. It's a nice way.

Trae Tha Truth 3:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:01 So you were saying you n- you never smoked and you never drank your whole life, nothing?

Trae Tha Truth 3:05 Yeah. Never smoked, never drank, man.

Joe Rogan 3:07 How did you dodge that?

Trae Tha Truth 3:10 So crazy story is, man, coming from where I come from, most people smoke and drink, you know, when they tend to go through stuff just dealing with life. You know, that's what kind of put their mind at ease. And I was always one of the people I felt like I'm gonna deal with it, head up. Whatever, however it hit me at that moment, it can't get no worse than that. So I always just decided to not do, 'cause at the end of the day, when I got done smoking or drinking, if that's what I decided to do, the reality still gonna kick in. So I'd rather just deal with this shit head up.

Joe Rogan 3:40 That's a good mindset. But smoking and drinking is fun. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 3:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:45 (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 3:45 I watch everybody around me do it-

Joe Rogan 3:47 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 3:47 ... all day every day.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Well, there's nothing that, uh, sort of illuminates the problems with alcohol like watching someone be drunk and you're sober.

Trae Tha Truth 3:55 Uh, you know, man, I, I always been more of a protector my whole life, so I'm always just watching the atmosphere anyway, so it don't really bother me. I'll be watching out just to make sure everybody's straight at all times.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Right. So you're like the designated driver.

Trae Tha Truth 4:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:09 Keep, keep everybody-

Trae Tha Truth 4:10 I don't wanna be classified that 'cause that's-

Joe Rogan 4:11 I don't mean that way.

Trae Tha Truth 4:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:12 You know what I'm saying?

Trae Tha Truth 4:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Just like the, the, the w- the wise, sober person in the room-

Trae Tha Truth 4:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:16 ... keeping everybody together. Yeah. Um, it is an interesting thing because, uh, we, we all know so many people that have ruined their lives because of that.

Trae Tha Truth 4:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:26 You know, just gets away from them. That's all they wanna do, smoke and drink, and, and your life just kinda gets away from you. You're just escaping it instead of being in it.

Trae Tha Truth 4:35 You know, man, uh, something that I realized, everybody not built, uh, built to be that strong, and everybody not able to deal with a lot of things, you know.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 4:45 So sometimes that's their scapegoat, and I'm one of the ones not to judge. I just ... If it suits you and that's for you, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Joe Rogan 4:53 That's a good way of looking at it too because that is true, that we, we all have, uh, different levels of ability of handling shit.

Trae Tha Truth 5:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:01 And especially when it come ... But, but when, you know, you get into tricky things like, like alcohol or pills. Pills is a tricky one.

Trae Tha Truth 5:07 Yeah. Pills can be dangerous.

Joe Rogan 5:08 It doesn't seem like anybody can handle those. We had, uh, Kurt Angle on the other day-

Trae Tha Truth 5:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:14 ... from WWE. And he, and, you know, he, he developed a pain, uh, pill problem because he broke his neck, like, five times.

Trae Tha Truth 5:21 Damn.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 5:22 I didn't even know that.

Joe Rogan 5:23 God, he got fucked up. His neck is fucked up. It's crazy. And we watched some clips of him doing it, but, I mean, this guy won the gold medal in the Olympics with a broken neck, and he still got hooked on pills.

Trae Tha Truth 5:35 I could imagine only because once you get used to that pain and, and that's what's putting you at ease, you gotta ... You know, you go from a couple to-

Joe Rogan 5:44 Uh-huh.

Trae Tha Truth 5:44 ... "Let me just go and get a, a few more in so I can make sure I'm good throughout the day." And ...

Joe Rogan 5:49 Yeah. It just becomes a part of your body.

Trae Tha Truth 5:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:51 You can't get away from it.

Trae Tha Truth 5:53 But you gotta be, you gotta be cautious, man, 'cause now you got fentanyl and all the other shit. Now, every time I see someone with that, I rarely see somebody make it through that.

Joe Rogan 6:02 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 6:03 That one for sure gonna kill you, so you gotta be cautious.

Joe Rogan 6:05 Yeah, that's the real problem with getting stuff off the street.... you know, if you're trying to get coke off the street, then, they're not making it at the Pfizer lab. You know? It's not like you're not getting the same batch every time. You don't know, you don't know what the fuck you're getting. If you don't know the bu- the guy who's buying it, or from the people, like, you don't, you don't know what the source is.

Trae Tha Truth 6:24 Yeah, you even got... It's so crazy. You can even find weed laced with the shit. So it just means everything-

Joe Rogan 6:30 That's what I've heard.

Trae Tha Truth 6:30 Yeah, everything can be fucked up, man. It's, you know-

Joe Rogan 6:33 Why would they lace weed with it?

Trae Tha Truth 6:35 Man, never know. Never know. But it's, there's many people that this shit affected are hitting and passing from it. It's definitely something that they doing.

Joe Rogan 6:45 You know, because weed is illegal in a lot of states, 90% of the weed that's grown, uh, that's sold in these states where it's illegal is grown on public land by the cartels. Because in the places where weed is legal, like California, it's only a misdemeanor if you're growing weed, like, without a permit. It's not a big deal. So they just set up shop in the national forests in places where they're not supposed to be, and they grow weed.

Trae Tha Truth 7:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:13 'Cause if they get caught, it's not, you know, it's not that big of a deal, but, you know, they want to protect their product too. So these guys who used to be, like, game wardens, now they have, like, tactical teams with dogs and shit, and, you know, MP4s and machine guns, and they're going through the, the woods fighting the cartel. It's wild.

Trae Tha Truth 7:32 Yeah. You know, you see it in the movies, but, you know, that's what happen in real life for real, for real.

Joe Rogan 7:36 For real, for real. And he was explaining to me how, um, it's really dangerous, because they use all these, like, super toxic pesticides and shit that no one else is allowed to use. Like, you can't really use that if you're growing... Especially if you're growing something organically, which is ideal. So they're, they're just using all kinds of shit that's, like, super toxic.

Trae Tha Truth 7:56 Yeah. And then that's, I mean, that's gonna weigh down and affect the people for sure, for sure.

Joe Rogan 8:00 Yeah. And isn't it crazy that all that is just because it's illegal?

Trae Tha Truth 8:04 Man, I, I, I'm not sure when, but I'm, I'm, I'm assuming they're going to have to make it legal in Texas at some point, man.

Joe Rogan 8:12 At some point. It seems silly, especially 'cause Texas is supposed to be all about freedom. You know, um, I had a conversation with this guy, Alex Berenson, yesterday. He's a reporter. He used to work for the New York Times. And he's... You know, he pointed out, he's like, "Everybody wants freedom, but if you get that freedom and everything's legal, you're gonna have a bunch of drug overdoses you wouldn't have. You're gonna have a bunch of people that are addicted you wouldn't have gotten addicted. If it was illegal, they wouldn't have bought it. And because it's legal, you're going to have to deal with that." And it's true.

Trae Tha Truth 8:43 But the-

Joe Rogan 8:43 It's an uncomfortable truth.

Trae Tha Truth 8:44 ... flip side of that is I've yet to see anybody really pass away from weed.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Yeah. Even from cancer, right?

Trae Tha Truth 8:52 Right. And, and, you know, if-

Joe Rogan 8:53 If they're smoking it every day, they're not getting lung cancer. That's crazy.

Trae Tha Truth 8:56 Right. So that's the only part they getting confused why they haven't made it-

Joe Rogan 9:00 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 9:00 ... illegal as fast.

Joe Rogan 9:02 I mean, if there's things like, you know, the opiates, if they're legal, you can get those, but you can't get weed? That seems silly.

Trae Tha Truth 9:10 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 9:10 That just seems silly.

Trae Tha Truth 9:12 I think-

Joe Rogan 9:12 It doesn't make any sense.

Trae Tha Truth 9:13 I think, honestly, man, the reason why it's probably not, it's just because they haven't figured out a way to monetize off of it.

Joe Rogan 9:19 Well, the problem is you can't patent it, right? So, like, if you're selling, you know, whatever it is, some thyroid medication or something, you, you could patent that, and then it's your medication that you invented, and then you own the patents on it so you get all the profits from it. But when it's a plant, that whole model gets, like, thrown into the bushes. Like, you can't do shit. Everybody can grow it. You just... All you need is dirt and water, and you can get the drug.

Trae Tha Truth 9:43 And then, uh, a name (laughs) 'cause-

Joe Rogan 9:46 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 9:46 ... you can rename it-

Joe Rogan 9:47 Yep.

Trae Tha Truth 9:47 ... as much as you want, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:48 Yeah. And then it's... You can name as many strains as you want. There's, it's the Wild West out there. But you couldn't if it was patented. You know, maybe that's what they would want to do, is make like a genetic strain, like a Monsanto-type weed, where they could completely control it.

Trae Tha Truth 10:07 Yeah, definitely, 'cause that's the, you know, 'cause they know that's gonna be their moneymaker.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Yeah. It seems like... It's just such a conundrum. Because I, you know, I admire people like you, that no, no alcohol, no weed, no nothing, just discipline. I admire that.

Trae Tha Truth 10:24 It just, it builds us to be a little stronger, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:29 Mm-hmm.

Trae Tha Truth 10:30 'Cause, man, I done been through so much shit in life and watched a lot of people go through stuff, stuff that make them may take their life 'cause it may be real crucial. But when you get to getting to the point of where I am, you deal with everything, head up, it's like it ain't really much... It ain't like it's a breeze or a cakewalk every time, but for the most part, we'd be like, "Man, it'll be all right. I'll deal with it." And, you know, that's what keep me going.

Joe Rogan 10:55 Well, I guess, also, if you get used to just dealing with shit, then you get strong at dealing with shit. Whereas if you're just drowning it out all the time, then that becomes a habit.

Trae Tha Truth 11:04 But it, it's so crazy. It's a... It became even a bigger habit for me, right? Uh, I don't know how long ago it was when I got shot, but when I got shot, they ended up, um... They actually... The crazy thing is they never, they didn't do surgery or anything, right? I got shot. It was so many people outside the hospital that they were like, "Man, we need to get him out of here," 'cause they, they never seen nothing like that. So they don't know if the people outside was against me or was for me. They just never seen it. So, um-

Joe Rogan 11:34 Oh.

Trae Tha Truth 11:34 ... long story short, um, left, got home, cleaned the round. They just got the bleeding to stop. But, um, days later, they tried to prescribe me medicine. I think I took the medicine probably for the first five, six days. And then once I decided that I could make it through half a day without it, I'm just like, "Man, fuck it. I'm just... It can't get no worse than this." You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 12:00 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 12:00 It can only get better, so dealing with that, that's just... It, it developed a habit of anything I do, I just go at it about that way. I don't know if you ever seen on, on (laughs) on YouTube, I took the bullet out myself.

Joe Rogan 12:13 Jesus.

Trae Tha Truth 12:14 Yeah, yeah. But it's just-

Joe Rogan 12:16 Where'd you get shot?

Trae Tha Truth 12:18 I got shot directly in my back and, um, it shattered my shoulder blade and spent to my, uh, shoulder. So it sat there for like four or five years. And it's so crazy, right? When y- you hear people tell you the stories.

Joe Rogan 12:30 There it is.

Trae Tha Truth 12:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:32 So-

Trae Tha Truth 12:32 Oh, that's me taking it out.

Joe Rogan 12:34 So it was pushing out how long after you got shot?

Trae Tha Truth 12:37 Yeah, about five... It could have been like five years.

Joe Rogan 12:40 Five years.

Trae Tha Truth 12:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:41 So the bullet was still in... It was, uh, working its way out of your skin for five years. Wow.

Trae Tha Truth 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:46 Dude, that's crazy.

Trae Tha Truth 12:50 And went on to continue my day. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:53 (laughs) Did you get it stitched up at least?

Trae Tha Truth 12:55 No.

Joe Rogan 12:56 Really?

Trae Tha Truth 12:56 Yeah. But it, it, it healed like it was supposed to, man. Uh, one... The fact that them not doing surgery on me when I got shot and it healed, I was just... That was a cakewalk at that point. So...

Joe Rogan 13:07 Why didn't they wanna do surgery?

Trae Tha Truth 13:10 One, uh, I don't know if, if for them not ha-... I guess for how many people was there so fast and then them not being able to go in and know if it's somewhere that was damaging or, or however you wanna put the words. But, um, that's shit. They were like, "Man, we gotta get him up outta here." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:29 Wow.

Trae Tha Truth 13:29 And that was just the reality of it. But the only bad thing is, 'cause they didn't move it and it was there, it got tangled up in a lot of my, um, nerves and muscle. So, like, if you ever pay attention to me, like, I can't lift my arm directly straight up or do a lot of different things 'cause it was sitting in there for so many years.

Joe Rogan 13:51 That's gotta piss you off because they could have just pulled that out, right? Could they have?

Trae Tha Truth 13:55 Definitely, they... Yeah. Definitely, because it was, it was so close to the edge. 'Cause from the, the time I got shot to the time it came out, you could always feel it, so it was that close.

Joe Rogan 14:06 That's the thing about doctors, like, you get a really good doctor or you can get a doctor that's like, "Mm, fucking leave it in there."

Trae Tha Truth 14:12 And it's, and it's crazy, right man? 'Cause you... I help a lot of kids in life and you watch some of these doctors, they take a, a personal liking and loving to these kids and, you know, just trying to figure out ways to help them or even some of the elders. And then you got some people like, "Shit. Ah, it ain't gonna work. They ain't gonna make it." You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 14:32 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 14:32 That's the fucked up part about it.

Joe Rogan 14:35 Yeah. Well, I think some people get real calloused unfortunately. They see a lot of people die and then they lose their feeling for it.

Trae Tha Truth 14:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:42 And other people never do. That's the, the best thing about great doctors is you just really appreciate them, someone who really cares, you really appreciate them.

Trae Tha Truth 14:51 That, that extra, that extra let's try one more time sometimes can change everything-

Joe Rogan 14:59 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 14:59 ... as opposed to there's nothing else we can do.

Joe Rogan 15:02 Yeah, especially when someone's got a bullet in their shoulder. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 15:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:06 Just get it out of there, man, especially if it's right there. Like, how far below the surface was it, like, when you first went in?

Trae Tha Truth 15:13 Uh, no, so when I first went in, it was literally... It was just bulging, like, um...

Joe Rogan 15:20 So it was, like, at the skin?

Trae Tha Truth 15:20 Put it like this, you could do it... Yeah. So if you do this, you could always, always feel it. So the... Like, when you look at the video that was on YouTube, by that point, it broke the skin on its own 'cause you know you'll hear stories like, bullet's gonna push their way out or you'll does-

Joe Rogan 15:35 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 15:36 You'll hear the stories of during rain or cold weather it'll make you feel some way. Like that's-

Joe Rogan 15:41 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 15:41 ... shit right here for real.

Joe Rogan 15:43 Oh. That makes sense. I mean, there's a piece of metal in you. That's what everybody says that has, like, broken arms when they get plates, they get plates-

Trae Tha Truth 15:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:50 ... in their arms or in their legs. A lot of fighters say that, "Oh, when it's cold out, it just sucks."

Trae Tha Truth 15:54 Oh, they... I, I didn't even think of it. I ain't never had a broken bone, so yeah, I didn't-

Joe Rogan 15:58 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 15:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:59 When they break, you know, a lot of times, like, when you break your forearm, they, they have to do that.

Trae Tha Truth 16:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:05 They have to screw it in and-

Trae Tha Truth 16:06 Like when they put the pins and it's-

Joe Rogan 16:07 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 16:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:07 It's pretty gnarly, man. You ever seen anybody get it done?

Trae Tha Truth 16:09 Nah.

Joe Rogan 16:10 A lot of people, they do it, um, from a spinning back fist. They throw a spinning back fist and they hit the forearm-

Trae Tha Truth 16:17 Shatter it.

Joe Rogan 16:18 ... with, with the f- yeah. They hit their forearm on someone's forehead and it snaps that way or they, they're blocking kicks. But when they do it, man, the whole arm has to be cut open. They gotta put a bar in there and screws and, and tighten it all together.

Trae Tha Truth 16:32 They take it back out or it just stay there forever?

Joe Rogan 16:33 It depends. You can get it taken back out. Some guys have to get it taken back out because the screws start backing out and they start poking through the skin and makes it really painful.

Trae Tha Truth 16:41 Oh.

Joe Rogan 16:41 You know, especially if you're trying to kick or, or block kicks or punch or anything like that, so...

Trae Tha Truth 16:45 Man, that's crazy. As much as a, a, a diehard UFC fan, my one thing about that is watching them kick, I don't understand how they don't, don't break their leg every time they kick. Even though I know they do different procedures to make it hard and-

Joe Rogan 17:00 Yeah. The, the different procedures don't really prevent it. It just... It, it makes it definitely tough- tougher. Like, there's some Thai guys who have crazy shins 'cause they've been, like, kicking bamboo trees and, and, you know, kicking pads and heavy bags and bags with sand in them. They've been doing that their whole lives. So they have, like, really dense, like, really dense, um, shin bones and they just swat people with those like they're baseball bats.

Trae Tha Truth 17:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:26 There's this dude, uh, I think his name is Malapai and he was fighting in a lion fight and this dude would just go shin to shin with everybody, just kick them in the shins, just kick them in the shins. They just couldn't tolerate it. He would hit so fucking hard and just th- his bones were just so dense 'cause he'd been doing it forever. But even those guys, like, they have to be careful. Like, you know, I'm sure Anderson Silva has very dense bones, but he-

Trae Tha Truth 17:52 I was just gonna say, that was one of the most-

Joe Rogan 17:54 But that kick was crazy.

Trae Tha Truth 17:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:56 That was crazy to watch, like, an all-time great snap his leg like that, like, no. (sighs)

Trae Tha Truth 18:04 You know, that was one of the favo- still one of the favorites, though. He...

Joe Rogan 18:07 Oh, he's one of the greatest of all time.

Trae Tha Truth 18:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:09 One of the greatest of all time. He was a master at finding people's chins.

Trae Tha Truth 18:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:13 He's just a master, master at like, finding when's the opening, blam. (laughs) He was so good, man.

Trae Tha Truth 18:19 You know somebody that people slept on that if you had to be an original UFC fan, Vitor Belfort hands was probably some of the coldest-

Joe Rogan 18:28 Oh, God.

Trae Tha Truth 18:28 ... when he, when he was young coming in.

Joe Rogan 18:30 Yeah. Nobody had hands like him at 19. He fought Trey Tellemann, that was his first fight in the UFC.

Trae Tha Truth 18:35 I remember.

Joe Rogan 18:36 And, um-

Trae Tha Truth 18:37 He from Texas, right?

Joe Rogan 18:38 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 18:38 He from Dallas, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:39 Yeah, I believe so. He was one of the, um, uh, Lion's Den guys. Fucking jacked, big huge dude. And they thought Vitor, because he was a black belt in jujitsu from the Carlsen/Gracie family, they thought that he was just going to do jujitsu. And this dude just comes out and puts on a boxing clinic-

Trae Tha Truth 18:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:55 ... and you're like, "Whoa."

Trae Tha Truth 18:56 He couldn't give, he couldn't get away from it. Him and, uh, who did he get? Vanderlei Silva?

Joe Rogan 19:00 Scott Perosa was the next fight he had, and yet he fought Vanderlei Silva-

Trae Tha Truth 19:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:03 ... where he ran across the ring, he just blitzed him-

Trae Tha Truth 19:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:05 ... with punches. That was cra... See if you can find that, Vitor Belfort versus Vanderlei Silva. I mean, this is crazy.

Trae Tha Truth 19:10 And you know what's so crazy, at the time, he didn't do Vanderlei no, uh, justice 'cause nobody knew what-

Joe Rogan 19:17 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 19:17 ... he ended up to, turned out to be good as can be, but-

Joe Rogan 19:19 Oh, yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 19:20 ... Belfort flushed right through that shit.

Joe Rogan 19:22 Well, he just, he caught him and kept him caught. He just bang once and then Vitor will just flurry.

Trae Tha Truth 19:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:29 He flurried. But yeah, you're right, because Vanderlei did become an all-time great after that too.

Trae Tha Truth 19:34 Yeah, but see then people didn't know. There you go. All the way ac-

Joe Rogan 19:37 I mean, it's just a blitz. I mean, Vitor had some crazy hands, just crazy hands, and he was terrified of Vanderlei. Everybody was terrified of Vanderlei.

Trae Tha Truth 19:47 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 19:48 That's why they called him the Ax Murderer. That was his nickname.

Trae Tha Truth 19:51 I didn't know that at all.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Vanderlei would just stare at you like this and do this shit with his hands before the fights.

Trae Tha Truth 19:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:55 And everybody's like, "Oh, this fucking guy."

Trae Tha Truth 19:58 I think Vitor, man, once he gained all the weight, that's when he ended up taking the, the first L.

Joe Rogan 20:03 Well, he got way too big, but the problem with Vitor at that time, I think, was that you're starting to see this emergence of these big giant wrestlers. So, like, Mark Coleman was the best example.

Trae Tha Truth 20:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:15 And, and Mark Coleman was like, you know, 260 solid as a rock, giant jacked, super athletic wrestler. He took everybody down and everybody's like, "Oh my God, this guy's so big, I gotta get big too." They felt like that was the only way to beat Mark Coleman, so there was, like, a bunch of guys who started getting really big.

Trae Tha Truth 20:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:33 But, you know, that comes with a gas tank problem. You can't get that big with that frame. He just couldn't survive. And then when he fought Randy Couture, Randy just sorta outworked him.

Trae Tha Truth 20:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:43 And he just got tired.

Trae Tha Truth 20:45 Randy was good.

Joe Rogan 20:45 Randy was very good.

Trae Tha Truth 20:46 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 20:46 Randy was very good.

Trae Tha Truth 20:48 A lot of people don't, man... So I used to... That's how far back I go, I used to have the VHSs to when, when they were doing the tournaments the whole day where you fight more than once-

Joe Rogan 20:56 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 20:57 ... in the, uh... So I've been... I used to watch UFC like crazy, man.

Joe Rogan 21:01 The tournaments were wild.

Trae Tha Truth 21:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:03 They fought more than once a night.

Trae Tha Truth 21:05 I don't think they could do that no more.

Joe Rogan 21:07 Well, they did it in Glory Kickboxing a few years back. They did it in LA. I think it was called Last Man Standing, and I think those guy... I want, I wanna say they fought three times in a night against world-class kickboxers. You know?

Trae Tha Truth 21:22 Yeah, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 21:22 Just bananas. It's like the-

Trae Tha Truth 21:24 Who was, who else was... Tank was good back then. Tank Hadtheater.

Joe Rogan 21:28 Oh, Tank Abbott, yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 21:29 I mean, I know-

Joe Rogan 21:29 Oh, he was an animal. Yeah. He was the first guy to figure out to wrap your hands. He was the fir-

Trae Tha Truth 21:35 Who's ta-

Joe Rogan 21:35 He was the... Tank Abbott was the first guy to figure out, like, if you have MMA gloves on, you actually could punch harder. Because, like, it's harder to punch someone bare knuckle, you break your hands easier. But if you can really wrap your hands up and put gloves on, it's probably better. And so Tank would... He was, uh, one of the first guys to put those gloves. He might've been the first guy, but he's definitely one of the first guys, who was, like, a big power puncher who put gloves on.

Trae Tha Truth 21:58 Yeah, when he did the dude where the dude was hanging with his neck down.

Joe Rogan 22:01 Oh, my God.

Trae Tha Truth 22:01 You remember that one?

Joe Rogan 22:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 22:03 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:03 It was... Scott Nellmark, I believe.

Trae Tha Truth 22:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:05 Yeah. No, he was an animal. (laughs) He was the, he was the worst-case scenario. A guy who liked to drink, talked a lot of shit, and can fight.

Trae Tha Truth 22:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:14 I'm like, "Goddammit." And he fought anybody, he didn't give a fuck. Just fought anybody, whoever. He fought anybody they put in front of him. Never said no.

Trae Tha Truth 22:23 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tank was one of them guys-

Joe Rogan 22:24 He was one of those guys too, when he would show up, people would go crazy. They loved it. They loved that Tank was there.

Trae Tha Truth 22:30 You know somebody else, like, these, even though he's my brother, but still, the Beast, the same way people love him no matter what?

Joe Rogan 22:35 Oh, yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 22:36 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:36 We were just talking about him when we had Kurt Angle on. I was saying if anybody could transition from their MMA career into pro wrestling, it's the Beast.

Trae Tha Truth 22:45 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:45 He could do it. Derrick Lewis could 100% be a superstar pro wrestler. 100%. If he decided to retire from fighting, he would be huge. He's hilarious.

Trae Tha Truth 22:55 Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:56 And he's gigantic.

Trae Tha Truth 22:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:57 And he's got all the qualities that you need to be, like, a g- a good pro wrestler.

Trae Tha Truth 23:02 Yeah, and the people love him. You know what's so crazy?

Joe Rogan 23:04 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 23:04 Me and him, we saved a lot of lives together, um, during Hurricane Harvey. We, um, we went and took care of Beaumont, Port Arthur. Matter of fact, it's so crazy, I got a... My lifted truck out there, that's the reason I bought it. I bought it 'cause of him, 'cause at first I was doing rescues in boats and doing different stuff. But then Derrick came through in a lifted truck and we were going past the boats in the water, so at that point I ended up buying a truck. But, uh, we saved a lot of people together, you know. That's one of my-

Joe Rogan 23:32 Mm-hmm.

Trae Tha Truth 23:32 ... close, close brothers. That's why whenever y'all see me at the fights and he fighting, everybody be looking 'cause I be on my feet, "Yup."

Joe Rogan 23:38 (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 23:39 Yeah, I'm like, "Crazy."

Joe Rogan 23:40 No, Derrick's the man. He's hilarious.

Trae Tha Truth 23:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:43 I'll never forget when he took his shorts off.

Trae Tha Truth 23:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:45 I'm like, "Derrick, why are your shorts off?"

Trae Tha Truth 23:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:47 My balls is out.

Trae Tha Truth 23:48 But it paid off 'cause now he got a Manscaped commercial.

Joe Rogan 23:50 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 23:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:51 He should have a Manscaped commercial. He should have a whole campaign.

Trae Tha Truth 23:54 Man...

Joe Rogan 23:54 He's hilarious.

Trae Tha Truth 23:55 ... I know.

Joe Rogan 23:56 Yeah, it's a love the sport, huh? I mean, it's been... That's how I got to meet you, you know, from, uh, you coming to the fights.

Trae Tha Truth 24:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:03 But it's, uh... Yeah, I appreciate that you enjoy it too.

Trae Tha Truth 24:06 Yeah. Shout-out Jon Anik too. You know, he, he for sure was... He like, "Man, you and Joe, I gotta get y'all two together, man."

Joe Rogan 24:13 Did he say that?

Trae Tha Truth 24:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:14 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 24:14 He definitely said that.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Jon, Jon Anik is the man.

Trae Tha Truth 24:16 He is my man.

Joe Rogan 24:16 I love that dude. That guy's the, the best play-by-play commentator in the history of the sport. He's the best.

Trae Tha Truth 24:22 He the GOAT.

Joe Rogan 24:23 He's the GOAT. He's so smooth, man. When he called that Leon Edwards head kick right before Leon landed it on Kamaru Usman...... because they were saying, we, we were talking about it, like, you know, he's down in this fight and, you know, it's like, you know, his, his corner's yelling at him, "Don't give up, Rock. Go get him." And, and Jon Anik goes, "But that is not the cloth from which he is cut." And then boom, he lands a headshot.

Trae Tha Truth 24:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:49 I mean, it's crazy. It's like a scene... Like, if you, if that was in a movie, you'd go like, "That's too dead-on." No one would, no one would make a call like that.

Trae Tha Truth 24:57 But y'all see, y'all see it so much. It's probably, man, y'all see a lot of stuff come... Well, no, because I watch y'all expressions. Some shit y'all don't be seeing 'cause you can't-

Joe Rogan 25:06 I didn't see that coming, man. I did not-

Trae Tha Truth 25:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:07 ... see that coming. That was crazy. See if you can find that. Play that 'cause it's, it's, it's like a historical moment. When Anik says it, it's like he captured it. It's really like a scene in a movie. It doesn't, it, it, it's like...

Narrator 25:23 Give it to me. You wanna see corruption in the state of-

Joe Rogan 25:25 See, show it to it. Show it.

Trae Tha Truth 25:28 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 25:28 I don't even know what the hell that was. Oh.

Trae Tha Truth 25:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:30 That's got music behind it.

Jamie Vernon 25:31 Yeah. No, I had a earlier video for him.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Oh, okay. Oh, you have two things going on at the same time?

Jamie Vernon 25:36 Yeah, I had the ten f- five video going and then I had music coming from that.

Joe Rogan 25:39 Oh, okay. So listen to this 'cause this is crazy that he nails it.

Narrator 25:42 It's great, from Leon Edwards. But that is not the cloth from which he is cut. No. I mean, that is a dejected- Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Joe Rogan 25:50 Someone, they got you.

Trae Tha Truth 25:51 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 25:51 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 25:52 Of course.

Joe Rogan 25:52 They got you. Everybody's got to edit everything.

Trae Tha Truth 25:55 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 25:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:55 These motherfuckers. They can't just leave shit alone.

Jamie Vernon 25:57 No, it was like from a main... Uh, I, I linked it from a, like, an article about the call, too.

Trae Tha Truth 26:01 Mm. Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 26:02 They got me.

Joe Rogan 26:02 Well, that's it. Yeah. Jon Anik's the man.

Trae Tha Truth 26:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:07 He's just so smooth. That's a hard job, man. The j- the job of the color commentator is way easier. The job of, like, my job and Daniel's job, like, when DC and I do it, we're just having fun. Like, we don't have to do any traffic. Like, he's, like, directing traffic and, "This brought to you by Modelo." He's got to do all that stuff and, you know-

Trae Tha Truth 26:27 I never noticed the difference.

Joe Rogan 26:28 Oh.

Trae Tha Truth 26:28 I thought, oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Yeah. You, if you notice the difference, if you pay attention, it's like he does much more work. He's way better. Like, he's, like, coordinated.

Trae Tha Truth 26:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:38 Like (laughs) he's got, he's got notes and he's got index cards and shit. You know, he has to say certain things at certain times, you know, about Prime Energy Drink and, you know, this, this movie's coming up and this and that. Like, there's little, little things you have to jump in. Toyo tires.

Trae Tha Truth 26:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Like, you have to jump in with all that stuff. DC-

Trae Tha Truth 26:56 I thought that was all he had in there. I didn't know it was just him.

Joe Rogan 26:59 DC and I are, like, eating snacks and having a good time watching the fights. Yeah, see, he's got cards and shit. Look at him, all jazzed up. Yeah, he gets excited. He's the man.

Trae Tha Truth 27:14 He is.

Joe Rogan 27:14 Love that dude. The three of us together are so much fun.

Trae Tha Truth 27:17 Definitely, man. I watch y'all all the time. Man, you know, my, my wishes that I really want to see, I want to see Derrick get a championship and I want to see Dustin Poirier get one, number two.

Joe Rogan 27:30 Mm.

Trae Tha Truth 27:30 They're two of my closest, man. I just, I, they be right there at the edge, man.

Joe Rogan 27:35 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 27:36 Like, even the time that, um... It, it, the thing with, with Derrick, I don't, most people ain't gonna be able to withstand the flurry once he gets you.

Joe Rogan 27:47 Once he hits you.

Trae Tha Truth 27:48 But, yeah. But a couple people got lucky and got through it, and it just threw me off. But I, that's what I want. I want, I want at least them to at least get their chance to, to be champ one time, man.

Joe Rogan 27:59 Well, listen, Derrick can knock anybody out. I mean, that crazy flying knee that he opened up his last fight.

Trae Tha Truth 28:06 It was worth it. He practiced it.

Joe Rogan 28:07 Julio De Lima? Yeah. It's crazy. He just nailed him right out the gate. And then-

Trae Tha Truth 28:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:11 If Derrick does that to anybody, they're on skates.

Trae Tha Truth 28:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:13 He hits so hard. He's got the most knockouts of anyone in the history of the division.

Trae Tha Truth 28:18 Yeah. Definitely do. And the, the crazy thing with him, it, it can be at the end of the fight.

Joe Rogan 28:25 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 28:25 All it take is one from him.

Joe Rogan 28:26 He's always got it.

Trae Tha Truth 28:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Yeah. He carries that power late. We watched-

Trae Tha Truth 28:30 Even, I thought Dustin even was gonna win this last fight. They just, that kick came, you know? But Dustin, I feel like boxing-wise, Dustin's still, he, he mastered that from his weave game to everything.

Joe Rogan 28:42 He's very good. He's very, very good. But so is Gaethje. I mean-

Trae Tha Truth 28:46 Yeah. Yeah. Not, not to take nothing from him, you know. I love-

Joe Rogan 28:47 And Dustin got him in the first fight. The first fight, Justin got him. Or no, it was Dustin, rather, got him, and it was a hell of a war. And Gaethje got him in this one. But the way he got him, like, oh my God, that head kick.

Trae Tha Truth 28:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:59 And the crazy thing was, it's in the same arena in Salt Lake City-

Trae Tha Truth 29:02 That they had the first one?

Joe Rogan 29:03 ... a year, a year later from the Kamaru Usman knockout. It's basically the same knockout.

Trae Tha Truth 29:08 Man.

Joe Rogan 29:08 It's the same knockout. The way Leon Edwards knocks out Kamaru with the left leg is exactly what Justin Gaethje did with the right leg.

Trae Tha Truth 29:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:14 Same thing. Like, shows the punch, the kick's behind the punch. Same thing. Amazing.

Trae Tha Truth 29:19 Yeah. Crazy. I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 29:21 Yeah. It's, they, somebody played a video or somebody made a video of the two of them back to back. See if you can find that. It's like you could see one plays out and then the other one plays out, and it's almost identical, just mirrored, just the different legs.

Trae Tha Truth 29:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Left leg versus right leg. But Justin's a monster, man. Justin Gaethje's, he's on fire right now. He's on fire. You know, I mean, he's only lost to the best in the division, you know, like Charles Oliveira and Khabib and couple other guys like Dustin, but he, right now, he's on fire. He's on fire. Especially that last fight. And then the fight before that with Fiziev. That guy's a beast, too. And they, they, that was an amazing fight. So Justin is like, he's at the top of the heap. I would love to see him fight for the title. Like, whoever wins this weekend with the, or, uh, when is that? October 21st, right? No, when is the Oliveira one?

Jamie Vernon 30:13 Hold on. Yeah. That, that time's correct. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:15 October 21st.

Jamie Vernon 30:16 I just found the video, though.

Joe Rogan 30:18 When that, when that card takes place, like, that is, that's going to be a very interesting thing to see who gets the next shot at it because Justin Gaethje versus the winner of that would be really interesting. Look at this. So here's Leon's kick on the left and then Justin's on the right. Same exact thing.Wild, right?

Trae Tha Truth 30:35 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 30:37 Wild. And that's two head kicks to win the title, you know, a year apart from each other in Salt Lake City. Like, Salt Lake City's got some magic in the air.

Trae Tha Truth 30:46 Definitely, if, if that happened back to back in the arena. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:49 Yes. Yeah. It's, uh, it's a crazy sport, man.

Trae Tha Truth 30:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:54 When did you, when did you first start getting into it?

Trae Tha Truth 30:57 Oh, man. Since way back then, with the, with the Gracies and the Ken Shamrocks. The... All... I, I used to get 'em from Blockbuster, that's when I... Um.

Joe Rogan 31:10 Oh, yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 31:10 Where I used to get... I used to... I still probably got them VHS tapes, man. That's how-

Joe Rogan 31:14 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 31:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:16 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 31:17 So it was, it was in the beginning phases, man.

Joe Rogan 31:20 That's how I got introduced to, uh, to it too. I got, uh, UFC2, picked it up at like, you know, Hollywood Video.

Trae Tha Truth 31:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:28 And I was like, "What is this?" And I remember immediately thinking, "Oh my God, I have to learn jujitsu. Like, these guys are all getting killed." When you watch Royce Gracie strangle everybody and break everybody's arms, you're like-

Trae Tha Truth 31:39 And people... Uh, he was... I don't know how tall he is in person, but he was probably one of the smallest people, it seemed like, looking at it from a fan's standpoint. He's skinny too, right?

Joe Rogan 31:49 Oh, yeah. Royce was 176 pounds. When he was tapping out guys like Dan Severn, who was like a beast, 250-pound wrestler, he was so good, man, and no one knew what to do. They had never seen Gracie jujitsu before.

Trae Tha Truth 32:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:03 And Royce just... He was the perfect, uh, advertisement for jujitsu too, 'cause it wasn't like he was built. Like, he wasn't like, jacked like Tyron Woodley or something, or someone like super jacked, Brock Lesnar. No, he was like a f- a thin, normal-looking guy who fucked everybody up.

Trae Tha Truth 32:19 I'm talking about literally would choke the shit out of people. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:24 Choke the shit out of people. And he was doing it to everybody, man. It was interesting. It was really interesting, 'cause so many people just didn't know what to do with him and he was fighting with that gi on. Which I think if they let him keep fighting with the gi on, I think, in a lot of his future fights, he would've had more, better results too, 'cause he had some fights with no gi. And it's like, man, Royce with the gi was just a master. A master at choking you with it, a master at getting you to grab it so he could initiate grappling exchanges.

Trae Tha Truth 32:51 Yup, that was his, that was his thing.

Joe Rogan 32:53 But, that one family, and u- particularly Royce, but that one family, they changed martial arts forever. Forever.

Trae Tha Truth 33:00 Uh, do any of them still fight? None of them fight in the...

Joe Rogan 33:02 No, no, none of them. I mean, they're all, they're all quite a bit older, you know. But, but talking about a family that had all-time great jujitsu people coming out of it, I mean, that's insane. That one family really influenced the way martial arts is expressed all over the world. And people are learning Brazilian jujitsu in Russia. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 33:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:20 Like, they're learning... You know, they're learning it in France, and they're learning it in Ireland. And... One family.

Trae Tha Truth 33:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:27 It's crazy, man. It's really crazy.

Trae Tha Truth 33:30 If anybody learned from him, it would be him. If they... People need to go do their research and go back and watch some of his fights. Looking at him, you would have no idea.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Yeah. Yeah, Royce was something really special, 'cause we'd never seen that before, you know. It was the first time we'd ever seen something where the martial art was more important than size and strength. Like, if you were actually a smaller person who was proficient in this martial art, 'cause that's what most martial arts promise you, that you would be able to beat a bigger person, but, oh, there's some physical issues. Like, if you're a 135-pound guy and you're fighting Derrick Lewis, well, you got a real problem.

Trae Tha Truth 34:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:07 You got a real problem. (laughs) You got a real problem, a size problem, that I don't think you're gonna be able to surmount.

Trae Tha Truth 34:12 He gonna slap you ass across that ring.

Joe Rogan 34:14 If hits you once, you're in a coma.

Trae Tha Truth 34:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:15 There's no way. It's just, he's too big, you're not gonna be able to just take him down. It's gonna be wild. He's gonna throw you off him. He's gonna kick you, he's gonna punch you. You're fucked. He's too big. But with jujitsu, it became... If he didn't know jujitsu and Royce got ahold of him, he could avoid the damage, drag him to the ground, and submit him, and we had never seen that before. It was always... If you saw two guys slugging it out, you know, it was... Generally, they were either the same size if it was like a boxing or kickboxing fight, or if they weren't, the big guy always killed the small guy.

Trae Tha Truth 34:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:51 Always.

Trae Tha Truth 34:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:51 And the UFC was the first time we saw this one guy who was like, normal-sized guy, not crazy muscles, nothing, just dominate everybody. And we're like, "What is he doing?"

Trae Tha Truth 35:01 Yeah, he definitely was one of the faces of the sport in the UFC.

Joe Rogan 35:04 Yeah. I mean, what is he doing?

Trae Tha Truth 35:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:09 Yeah. Then when you, um, first went to see one live, when was that?

Trae Tha Truth 35:16 Oh. Crazy. I think, uh, Derrick had me come out to... It was in Houston. That was my first time. It was him. I was with him and, um, Jon Jones. And we were giving out... We actually gave out Bumpboxes too. And, um, from there, me and Dana got real close, and just the whole team, and it's been that way since. You know, I ended up doing a deal with Dana not long after, you know, as far as the licensing and stuff with Bumpbox. So that's why you see UFC across a lot of our stuff and a lot of our stuff within what they got going on.

Joe Rogan 35:54 Oh, that's awesome. So you guys got a collaboration together?

Trae Tha Truth 35:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:57 Yeah. That's beautiful.

Trae Tha Truth 35:59 That's why you see me... Every time after fights, you'll see me backstage, but like, when we do the weigh-ins and stuff.

Joe Rogan 36:04 Mm-hmm.

Trae Tha Truth 36:05 Yeah, yeah. We make sure we take care of all the, um, fighters and other stuff.

Joe Rogan 36:08 You know what's great that you gave me? That tumbler that has a speaker at the bottom of it?

Trae Tha Truth 36:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did a partnership with, um, Gronkowski for the, uh... And this, it's actually grown. People really still ain't even realizing it's a speaker on the cup. They just thinking it's a, a cool shaker cup, but nah.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 36:24 It's something dope, man.

Joe Rogan 36:25 It's a great idea.

Trae Tha Truth 36:26 Well, actually, you know, you got the first, um... And Post probably gonna be mad 'cause I gotta get his, but you got, you got the first cornhole with the speakers. You know, we-

Joe Rogan 36:35 Oh, really?

Trae Tha Truth 36:35 We own the rights to that. Any cornhole that has any type of music on it, i- it... That's us, so.... we had a first, um, official cornhole with speakers on it, and you can pair them together. So, as you're playing the game, you can just vibe out.

Joe Rogan 36:51 All right.

Trae Tha Truth 36:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:53 That's a great beach game.

Trae Tha Truth 36:55 Definitely.

Joe Rogan 36:55 But what, I can't believe it's on ESPN now.

Trae Tha Truth 36:56 Tailgate, yeah, tailgate-

Joe Rogan 36:58 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 36:58 ... and, um, beach, yeah, just-

Joe Rogan 37:00 Yeah. It's fun.

Trae Tha Truth 37:01 Oh, it's a sport now on TV?

Joe Rogan 37:02 I think it's on TV.

Jamie Vernon 37:03 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:04 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 37:04 It is?

Jamie Vernon 37:04 There's people that are surprisingly really good at it.

Joe Rogan 37:07 Let me see.

Jamie Vernon 37:07 They can do a lot of shit.

Joe Rogan 37:08 (laughs) Let me see some fucking pro cornholing.

Trae Tha Truth 37:10 Do they win? Like, what do you, what do you win, a bunch of money or...?

Jamie Vernon 37:12 Yeah. They do, like, tournaments in Vegas, I think, at the end of the day. But, like, uh, let's see if I can find one with a lot of views. I've seen they, like, they're calling out what they want, what they need to do, and they just do it. Um.

Trae Tha Truth 37:23 Yeah, that's crazy.

Jamie Vernon 37:23 It's like the whole three hours. Hold on a second.

Trae Tha Truth 37:26 Yo, Bumpbox's been, man, it's be- it's been a blessing for us, you know. Shout out, um, all my partners there. Um, we took the company from just a few radios, just you know, getting them out there to mass, worldwide.

Narrator 37:41 Bad. And he...

Joe Rogan 37:41 So here's the World Championships?

Jamie Vernon 37:43 Notch.

Joe Rogan 37:44 American Cornhole League.

Jamie Vernon 37:46 Yes, that's Top Shots.

Joe Rogan 37:46 Okay, this is the Top Shots. Let's see. These guys standing around a lot.

Jamie Vernon 37:50 Ah, they sure do.

Joe Rogan 37:52 One in the hole.

Jamie Vernon 37:54 But, yeah, how, he did it without hitting the other bags, which is kind of like, that's pretty fucking tough to do.

Trae Tha Truth 37:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:59 Is that better?

Jamie Vernon 38:00 If, yeah, 'cause they're probably, those bags are probably tied to the other team.

Joe Rogan 38:04 Right.

Jamie Vernon 38:04 So if you knock them in, they get the points. If you don't do that, then you get the points.

Joe Rogan 38:07 Oh, that's crazy. This guy's doing it with a mask on. I hope... Ah, he missed. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 38:14 So you see how-

Joe Rogan 38:15 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 38:15 No, he actually kind of did-

Trae Tha Truth 38:15 So you see how-

Jamie Vernon 38:16 ... a knock the other one off.

Joe Rogan 38:17 Did he?

Jamie Vernon 38:17 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 38:17 You see how he's standing up with the, with the, uh, the legs?

Jamie Vernon 38:21 Sorry, buddy.

Joe Rogan 38:21 Oh, everybody has a mask. This must have been during COVID.

Jamie Vernon 38:22 Yeah, it was.

Joe Rogan 38:22 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. They probably forced them to wear that mask.

Trae Tha Truth 38:27 You heard me, Joe. You see how-

Joe Rogan 38:28 Sorry.

Trae Tha Truth 38:28 ... he's standing up with the legs?

Joe Rogan 38:29 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 38:29 So wherever the legs are, those are actual speakers.

Joe Rogan 38:32 Speakers. Nice.

Trae Tha Truth 38:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:33 What a great idea. Yeah, they're making these people wear masks.

Jamie Vernon 38:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:36 How stupid is this? But we're going to look back on the masks and go, "What the fuck were we doing?"

Trae Tha Truth 38:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:41 "What the fuck were we doing?"

Trae Tha Truth 38:43 Co- but COVID fucked up a lot of shit for everything, man. At this point, w- I realized just from helping so many people in the community in general, I realized how damaging it was. Business-wise, I watched how damaging it was because now y- if you pay attention to some of the new movies that come out, it just goes straight to streaming at this point.

Joe Rogan 39:05 Yes.

Trae Tha Truth 39:06 Yes. So I, I don't know if that helped money for the movies, but it seemed like it definitely hurt.

Joe Rogan 39:11 I don't think it does, and I don't think it's good for the actors either. I think that's part of the strike. I'm kind of speaking out of turn here, 'cause I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about. Uh, is that part of it, is that they want more money from streaming?

Jamie Vernon 39:24 Yeah, but it's a lot of the actors that, you know, are not top billed type people. You know, they get paid-

Joe Rogan 39:30 Mm-hmm.

Jamie Vernon 39:30 ... one fee and then they're never going to get residuals.

Joe Rogan 39:32 Right.

Jamie Vernon 39:32 So that they're trying to get some of those residuals and stuff's getting resold. That's definitely part of it and there's other things involved too.

Joe Rogan 39:38 Bro, you know what they're doing that's wild? They're trying (laughs) some of these studios are trying to make people sign contracts if you do background work, where they can just use your likeness from then on. So they can repurpose you in other background scenes as CGI.

Trae Tha Truth 39:53 Damn, they're like, kind of like them licensing your name-

Joe Rogan 39:56 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 39:56 ... as a permanently, I guess you would say.

Joe Rogan 39:58 For like, nothing. (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 40:00 (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 40:00 Yeah. That's, that shit crazy.

Joe Rogan 40:02 But that's, uh, the culture of, uh, you know, people that aren't stars over there in, in movies though, you know. Extras are not, they don't think about it that way. It's really interesting because like, they're going to be able to make movies with it. They're going to be able to make a movie with you, where you speak Chinese, and you, you know, you, you run an army somewhere. I mean, they can do whatever they want.

Trae Tha Truth 40:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:23 They can, with, with CGI and with this new, uh, AI voice stuff, they can literally do whatever they want. And they can turn any person who's e- uh, already been in a bunch of films where they have your face, they could put you in all kinds of scenes. Like, we're real close to them not needing actors anymore.

Trae Tha Truth 40:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:42 Which is kind of weird.

Trae Tha Truth 40:43 Yeah. And that's, and that, even just not just the actors, just even with us with music. You know, like, at first-

Joe Rogan 40:48 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 40:48 ... when they said something about it and they may say something about you can put a Michael Jackson and somebody else on the same record, you know, of course you'd be curious to be like, "Shit, dope. I wonder what that sound like?"

Joe Rogan 41:00 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 41:00 But then when you start thinking about it, they damn near won't really need us at, at some point because now they, they making your voice sound the same-

Joe Rogan 41:07 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 41:07 ... they're making you look the same, like it's just, that shit weird. But, one thing I know man, they, them, the, the bigger companies, they gonna find a way to block that shit somehow some way 'cause that's, that's taking all the money.

Joe Rogan 41:22 It's definitely going to change things, right? Like, that Drake song that got put out that was a fake Drake song-

Trae Tha Truth 41:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:29 ... that AI created Drake song, people loved it.

Trae Tha Truth 41:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Whew. They can do wild shit now, man. It's g- it's like we're n- we're not that far away from them being able to replicate full movies, all fake people.

Trae Tha Truth 41:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:44 You know? Presidents.

Trae Tha Truth 41:45 I'll, I'll be watching from a, I'll be watching from a distance like I'm, I'm watching a lot of the robot stuff start to really come to life now, you know. And it's just-

Joe Rogan 41:55 Does that freak you out?

Trae Tha Truth 41:56 Yeah. So, for two reasons. One, because definitely at this point, shit, anything can- (laughs) if anything go wrong at this point, we damn near fucked 'cause they build them damn near e- invincible.

Joe Rogan 42:09 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 42:09 But two, the other part that freak me out is they show this shit in movies years back and everything that they show is coming to be that exact-

Joe Rogan 42:19 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 42:20 Think about it, even with COVID, right? If you go look at some of the other movies where you have different pandemics, same shit. So then when you go to seeing shit with the, the ro- what year Will Smith came out with that movie? That was-

Joe Rogan 42:33 I, Robot?

Trae Tha Truth 42:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:34 Yeah, that was great.

Trae Tha Truth 42:35 That could've been, was that 10 years ago maybe or-

Joe Rogan 42:38 Maybe more.

Trae Tha Truth 42:39 Yeah, but to see that shit now is like, it- it's like they be knowing.

Joe Rogan 42:43 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 42:44 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 42:44 What was it?

Jamie Vernon 42:45 20 years ago. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 42:46 Wow.

Trae Tha Truth 42:46 That's even craz- uh, 20 years ago and now look at what we-

Joe Rogan 42:49 Wow.

Trae Tha Truth 42:49 ... we're dealing with right now, so.

Joe Rogan 42:50 Yeah. We're, we're about 10 years away from that being real.... you know, they, they've already developed these very life-like robots.

Jamie Vernon 42:57 They're doing, uh, the human, first human neural link, uh-

Joe Rogan 43:01 Oh my God.

Jamie Vernon 43:02 ... person soon. And this is what Elon just tweeted an hour ago that, with that.

Joe Rogan 43:05 "When a neural link is combined with Optimus robot limbs, the Luke Skywalker solution can be real... can become real." Holy fuck. Cl- click on that, man. Let me see that.

Jamie Vernon 43:16 This is threatening.

Joe Rogan 43:17 Oh, this is actually-

Jamie Vernon 43:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:18 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 43:18 It's just showing like what, what it would look like.

Joe Rogan 43:20 I thought it really was that, man.

Trae Tha Truth 43:21 That shit-

Jamie Vernon 43:22 Not yet.

Trae Tha Truth 43:22 ... that shit could be dangerous.

Joe Rogan 43:24 How come... Yeah, but probably one day, they'll just have a fake hand.

Jamie Vernon 43:26 Yeah. They're getting the first person. They're looking for someone with quadriplegia right now to do it.

Joe Rogan 43:31 Whoa.

Jamie Vernon 43:31 Whether or not they found that person over the last few days, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 43:34 Whoa. We are watching something. We're, we're watching the seeds of something that's going to overcome the human race.

Trae Tha Truth 43:43 Yeah. And that shit is not good, though. That shit is... Just when you think about it. But of course, you know, you think that shit'll be far gone, past our time, but then you still gotta think of our kids and, and those generations, because it's definitely gonna be dangerous.

Joe Rogan 43:58 It's definitely gonna be dangerous. But, um, yeah, they're gonna have... Our kids and their kids are gonna have a totally different world to live in.

Trae Tha Truth 44:05 Yeah. Especially with, uh, who, you watch movies with the flying car shit. Now they really-

Joe Rogan 44:10 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 44:10 ... technically getting it together.

Joe Rogan 44:12 That is the last thing you want. People have a hard enough time just slamming into each other on the street, on the ground.

Trae Tha Truth 44:18 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 44:18 ... just announced this yesterday that there's a flying taxi warehouse opening up in Ohio, uh-

Joe Rogan 44:23 Whoa.

Jamie Vernon 44:23 ... next month or ne- next year, later this year.

Joe Rogan 44:25 Whoa. I don't know where they're gonna fly them, but.

Trae Tha Truth 44:26 Is it true they got one in New York?

Joe Rogan 44:28 Are you gonna fly in one of those things?

Jamie Vernon 44:31 (laughs) I have no idea.

Trae Tha Truth 44:31 Do they have one in New York already? Are they... That's not true? Did they start doing that in New York?

Joe Rogan 44:35 I don't know why they would do it in New Y- There is one right there.

Jamie Vernon 44:38 Yeah. New York definitely has the Blade system, which is like Uber helicopter kind of thing. I don't know if they have something like this.

Joe Rogan 44:44 What? Uber helicopter? They have that?

Jamie Vernon 44:45 I mean, that's in the... They used that... That's part of what the problem was in Uncut Gems. Like, that wasn't ex- around then. Remember, he uses that helicopter to fly from...

Joe Rogan 44:53 Oh, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 44:54 You could do it from like the, from Manhattan to the airport and just ship all the traffic.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Jesus.

Jamie Vernon 44:57 Get there in 20 minutes.

Trae Tha Truth 44:58 Jesus. Helicopters freak me out. Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 45:01 I don't know about these.

Joe Rogan 45:02 I went up with Bill Burr. It was a lot of fun. Bill Burr is a helicopter pilot, took me around downtown LA.

Trae Tha Truth 45:07 Yeah. He one of my, one of my favorite comedians, man.

Joe Rogan 45:09 He's hilarious.

Trae Tha Truth 45:10 I don't know if it's his voice or what, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:11 Oh, he's hilarious.

Trae Tha Truth 45:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:12 He's so good. Such a good guy. But he's a pilot, and so he took me in a helicopter around downtown L- You can kind of go wherever you want. It is like a flying car. That's what they thought the flying car was gonna be. They thought helicopters, when they first invented them, they thought it was gonna be a flying car.

Trae Tha Truth 45:27 No, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 45:28 Yeah. That was the... See if you can find the original helicopter, 'cause I think that's literally what they were selling it as.

Jamie Vernon 45:35 What do you mean? Where?

Joe Rogan 45:36 The original helicopter that was... Just write-

Jamie Vernon 45:38 Not the original helicopter. Da Vinci. He, he had one of those in 1902.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Oh, yeah, right. He wrote it down, right? He wrote it.

Jamie Vernon 45:45 Um, original helicopter.

Joe Rogan 45:48 Uh, flying car. See if it says that, 'cause I think that's, that's kind of the concept. They thought, "Oh, we'll get helicopters and then people will just fly around in helicopters." And then I think they bailed on that, 'cause I think they realized, like, you don't want knuckleheads banging blades 10,000 feet above cities. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 46:07 'Cause it's... If you watch people bump in traffic now, then just-

Joe Rogan 46:11 Exactly.

Trae Tha Truth 46:12 ... coordinates-

Joe Rogan 46:12 Someone's on their phone flying around in a helicopter.

Trae Tha Truth 46:16 (laughs) Tweeting or texting, man.

Joe Rogan 46:18 Yeah. Not good.

Trae Tha Truth 46:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Definitely not good. Yeah. It's, um... I don't know, man. I'm all for freedom, but I don't want people falling out of the sky onto people's houses either, you know. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 46:31 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, on that. I don't know that... Helicopters, I don't really feel comfortable in helicopters. I'm more cool with a plane. Uh, private plane.

Joe Rogan 46:40 Do you ever do the tour bus thing? Do you do tour buses ever?

Trae Tha Truth 46:43 Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, man. But you know, we get... We so comfortable now, we just jump in a, a load of Suburbans and get to where we gotta go. 'Cause, you know, even when, um... I think my last tour, me and T.I. did, we were on, um, tour buses. But even then, you know, it's more so just when we're trying to get to the next city, 'cause ideally we still gonna go to a hotel and-

Joe Rogan 47:06 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 47:06 ... do what we gotta do. So, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:08 Oh, so you don't sleep on the tour bus?

Trae Tha Truth 47:10 You do... If you're going from-

Joe Rogan 47:11 Sometimes.

Trae Tha Truth 47:11 Yeah. If you're going from a city and you might have a six to eight-hour stretch, you got somewhere to lay down as opposed to having to sit up sleeping in a Suburban or something.

Joe Rogan 47:21 I don't feel comfortable sleeping in those things, because I feel like if this thing crashes, I don't want to be asleep in this bunk bed.

Trae Tha Truth 47:27 I ain't never thought of it that way.

Joe Rogan 47:28 No?

Trae Tha Truth 47:29 Yeah, no. That would be bad.

Joe Rogan 47:31 That's bad.

Trae Tha Truth 47:32 Very bad.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Real bad. Isn't that how Gloria Estefan broke her back? How do I know that?

Jamie Vernon 47:39 I think so. (inaudible)

Joe Rogan 47:40 I think that's true. I think, I think her tour bus crashed.

Jamie Vernon 47:46 Miami Sound machine.

Joe Rogan 47:47 What happened?

Jamie Vernon 47:47 In the Miami Sound machine.

Joe Rogan 47:48 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 47:49 Yeah, 1990.

Joe Rogan 47:50 That's what happened?

Jamie Vernon 47:52 Snow-covered highways, Grand Pennsylvania semi truck, four hours of surgery, spinal surgery. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:00 Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

Trae Tha Truth 48:02 You just opened my eyes to that. (laughs) I literally just talked to somebody two days ago at, um, a Drake concert who has tour buses. He was like, "Man, next time you want..." He told me, "Next time you want to go out, whether it's touring..." Because I have my album getting ready to come out. "So either that or even if you wanna take the tour bus when you going to go help during disasters, you can take the bus out."

Joe Rogan 48:27 Oh, that's nice.

Trae Tha Truth 48:27 Yeah, yeah. But you gonna make me think it depends on how far that drive is, because I thought-

Joe Rogan 48:31 Yeah, don't fall, just don't lay down. Seems like it should be in a seatbelt. 'Cause that's the thing about tour buses too, people driving around, it's almost like they're in a, uh, green room.

Trae Tha Truth 48:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:41 It's like, "Bro, we're moving. Put the fucking seatbelt on. Let's not die." (laughs) You don't do that in a regular car, right?

Trae Tha Truth 48:47 Definitely don't.

Joe Rogan 48:48 For, for a good reason, because you don't want to go through the windshield. So put your fucking seatbelt on, bro. But, you know, everybody wants to have a good time.That's the weird thing about, like, limos and tour buses. One of the things I heard about limos is when they crash, the real scary thing is people's heads slam into each other.

Trae Tha Truth 49:07 I could see that because they really-

Joe Rogan 49:08 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 49:08 Limos, you rarely ever see seat belts.

Joe Rogan 49:11 Yeah. Well, you know, if there are, people aren't wearing them, and then, you know, when they slam on the brakes, you go flying, and you go flying into each other, and you could fucking headbutt each other at 35 miles an hour, you know?

Trae Tha Truth 49:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:23 It's like, not good. You think of the abrupt stop of, like, the violent action of some accidents. If you're not in a seatbelt and you're in a limo together, man, you could get fucked up.

Trae Tha Truth 49:35 Yeah, because you got to realize, on the time of impact, you know, usually when you see something coming, you can brace yourself, so-

Joe Rogan 49:41 Mm-hmm.

Trae Tha Truth 49:41 But when it's unexpected, it's a wrap.

Joe Rogan 49:43 Yeah. You're not even-

Trae Tha Truth 49:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:44 You're not even bracing. You just feel the driver hit the brakes. You don't know what to do, and then bam.

Trae Tha Truth 49:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Not good. (laughs) Wear your seatbelt, kids.

Trae Tha Truth 49:53 Yeah. Definitely need to do that, man.

Joe Rogan 49:56 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 49:57 I... This... I was- I was trying to find what you were asking me to look for and I can't find it, and I stumbled across this. There's something called a Model A Alef, Aleef, Aleph? Have you seen this? It's a flying car, and they're saying it's available now. It's 300 grand. I haven't found a video of it flying, but this is at the De- Detroit car show. It's got wheels here on, like, normal size worth of wheels, but the rest of the car is made up of eight fans, and it says it can fly, like, 110 miles.

Trae Tha Truth 50:23 What?

Jamie Vernon 50:23 I'll show you a different video.

Trae Tha Truth 50:25 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 50:26 What?

Jamie Vernon 50:27 It's not this one.

Joe Rogan 50:29 Really?

Jamie Vernon 50:30 That's, uh...

Joe Rogan 50:30 So, it looks like a car and flies like that? Just with the fans?

Jamie Vernon 50:34 See, there's wheels there, and there's the whole rest of the body, and this, like, the cockpit where you are turns.

Joe Rogan 50:39 Yo. How do you steer that thing?

Trae Tha Truth 50:42 I wonder, do they make you go to flight school for these type cars?

Joe Rogan 50:46 You definitely should.

Jamie Vernon 50:47 Take off that. Uh, there was an interesting video, but this doesn't show it flying. Oh, this thing.

Joe Rogan 50:58 Does that show it's flying?

Jamie Vernon 50:59 Well, this is, like, their- their video of it, so it's not re-

Joe Rogan 51:02 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 51:02 It's not accurate, but that's what they're saying it's gonna look like.

Joe Rogan 51:05 Oh, so you're gonna go, like, sideways.

Trae Tha Truth 51:07 Yeah, for sure.

Jamie Vernon 51:08 Look at all those flying above the-

Joe Rogan 51:09 What?

Trae Tha Truth 51:10 I wouldn't fuck with it at all.

Jamie Vernon 51:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:12 What? So, I thought it was saying that the cockpit turns so the fans are behind you. Is that what happens?

Jamie Vernon 51:19 It has a street legal eVTOL, which means vertical takeoff.

Joe Rogan 51:22 Oh, look at that. There's an accident? It flies.

Jamie Vernon 51:25 It just skips over it and goes back.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Yo.

Jamie Vernon 51:28 That would definitely have a lot of people running into each other, but-

Joe Rogan 51:31 They'd land on each other. "Fuck you, bitch. This is my lane."

Trae Tha Truth 51:33 Right? (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 51:33 But the way that that looked, the- this has, like, the blades... You know? You can't hit anything with it.

Joe Rogan 51:39 Right.

Jamie Vernon 51:39 They're all protected.

Joe Rogan 51:40 Right.

Jamie Vernon 51:41 So, that problem's gone.

Joe Rogan 51:42 But a fender bender, the blades would slam into-

Jamie Vernon 51:45 You're fucked for sure.

Joe Rogan 51:46 ... the fucking structure and then you'd be dead.

Jamie Vernon 51:48 But, yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 51:50 Yeah. I don't think I want to be part of that in no time soon.

Joe Rogan 51:52 No, not for the first few generations of it.

Trae Tha Truth 51:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Let's sort that out first.

Trae Tha Truth 51:56 They gotta get the kinks out first. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:58 Do you ever fuck with electric cars?

Trae Tha Truth 51:59 Huh?

Joe Rogan 52:00 Do you ever fuck with electric cars?

Trae Tha Truth 52:02 Uh, I mean, I got a Tesla, but nothing major. I still-

Joe Rogan 52:06 Yeah, that's what I'm-

Trae Tha Truth 52:06 I n-... Yeah, I never... I still haven't let it auto-drive me, though.

Joe Rogan 52:10 No, that's scary.

Trae Tha Truth 52:11 No. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:11 I do it a little.

Trae Tha Truth 52:12 Oh, you did?

Joe Rogan 52:12 I go, "Doo-doot," and I just, like, kind of barely hold onto the wheel, but it makes me feel weird.

Trae Tha Truth 52:17 Never went to sleep, though, in the midst of it?

Joe Rogan 52:18 No.

Trae Tha Truth 52:19 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:19 Yeah, I was watching a guy on the- on video. Somebody captured him from the cellphone. This dude was asleep in his Tesla in bumper to bumper highway, just out cold.

Trae Tha Truth 52:27 Yeah, I can't-

Joe Rogan 52:27 And the car moves forward, stops, moves forward and stops, and he's just snoring.

Trae Tha Truth 52:33 All it take is one- one wrong malfunction and-

Joe Rogan 52:36 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 52:37 ... everybody... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 52:38 Yeah. That- that can happen. It's not all worked out yet.

Trae Tha Truth 52:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:42 Don't go to sleep, bro. (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 52:44 But, you know, man, it's so crazy you say that 'cause I was saying I was gonna find somebody tied into Tesla. I wanted to just get the Tesla truck just 'cause I don't know why, because it look-

Joe Rogan 52:54 Oh, it looks amazing.

Trae Tha Truth 52:55 Yeah, I think more so for the looks.

Joe Rogan 52:57 Oh, it looks amazing.

Trae Tha Truth 52:58 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:59 I- I- I saw one in real life and I was blown away, 'cause the pictures look good, but then when you're there in real life, it's big.

Trae Tha Truth 53:05 Oh, it is?

Joe Rogan 53:05 It's big and it's stamped steel. Like, that's not like a regular door. That's a door that can stop a .45 round.

Trae Tha Truth 53:12 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Yeah, the whole thing is stamped steel and it raises and lowers. So, it hits a bump and it goes... (imitates electric motor) It gets up, like... I think it raises, like, 16 inches or something crazy like that. I might be wrong, but it has insane horsepower. It goes zero to 60 in, like, three and a half seconds. This giant thing, man, out of stamped steel. It's- it's a car of the future.

Trae Tha Truth 53:35 They were telling me you have to be selected to be... I mean, even though they say you can put money down on one now, but you have to be... I think they're doing certain, selected people that they let get it early 'cause I sure was trying to get one.

Joe Rogan 53:47 I think they started delivering them because I- there was a truck that someone filmed on the highway that had Cybertrucks in it.

Trae Tha Truth 53:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:55 And they were delivering them somewhere. I don't know if it's delivering them to final production. I don't know if it's delivering them to the actual owners. Are people driving those things yet?

Jamie Vernon 54:04 I have seen and heard a lot of the stuff you're just saying, and I- right now, it says, like, uh, someone might have leaked the event. They've sent out emails saying people might be able to come get them soon. Upcoming delivery event in Austin.

Joe Rogan 54:20 Oh, shit.

Jamie Vernon 54:20 It doesn't say when it is. It could be next month or next year.

Joe Rogan 54:23 Oh, shit.

Trae Tha Truth 54:23 They finished building the factory out here already?

Joe Rogan 54:25 Yeah. The Gigafactory.

Trae Tha Truth 54:27 You know, I bought... Um, it was so crazy. Right before they did it, I bought 15 acres in Thrall, Texas, not far from here. And then they just told me my price of my land damn near almost doubled just 'cause of the Tesla factory.

Joe Rogan 54:42 That makes sense. That's a great investment. Yeah, that factory's nuts. Have you ever seen it? That's where they, uh, showed us the, uh, Cybertruck. It's huge. Like, the factory looks like the Death Star 'cause you're pulling up to it. You're like, "What are they making here?"

Trae Tha Truth 54:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:56 I think it's the biggest building I've ever been in.

Trae Tha Truth 54:59 That's crazy they brought it right to Texas. That's a good thing, though.

Joe Rogan 55:01 Yes.

Trae Tha Truth 55:02 Everything big in Texas. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:03 Yeah. Isn't it one of the biggest car production buildings ever or something like that? It's something crazy like that. It's-

Trae Tha Truth 55:11 Tesla, if you hear this right now, we want a Cybertruck. We definitely want one. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:15 Yeah. We need to get that. That thing looks amazing.

Jamie Vernon 55:17 Second-largest building by volume in the world. 10 million square feet of floor space.

Trae Tha Truth 55:22 That mean it's a lot of people got jobs now.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Yeah. Lot of people got jobs, a lot of cars getting made. They're getting made right here. Um, when you, uh... G- see if you could Google Cybertruck. Like, le- let me see what it looks like when it's driving around.

Jamie Vernon 55:35 Ah. Let's see.

Joe Rogan 55:36 Do they have a video of anybody driving it?

Jamie Vernon 55:38 YouTube Shorts has quite... There's a few videos. There's like a inside video someone has here, and there's one t- driving around LA here.

Trae Tha Truth 55:48 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:48 When you see it in real life, man, it's sick. It really does look like something from the future.

Trae Tha Truth 55:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:55 I mean, that looks like a future car. Look at that thing. Like, if you were, like, looking at a movie from 2023-

Jamie Vernon 56:01 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 56:01 ... in like 1984, you would think this. You're like, "Yeah, they're gonna have, like, future-looking spacecraft trucks." It's one of the d- When you see it in real life, it's undeniable. You see it in real life, like... I th- I thought it was cool looking in pictures, but you see it in real life, like, this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. It's amazing. And there's no reason for it. There's no reason to make a bulletproof-

Trae Tha Truth 56:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:26 ... electric vehicle with stamped steel. Like, why he doing that? But that's the cool thing about Elon, he does whatever the fuck he wants.

Trae Tha Truth 56:33 Yeah. I was just finna say, it just seem like he being able to live his childhood out at this point. He doing-

Joe Rogan 56:37 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 56:37 ... whatever he feel.

Joe Rogan 56:38 He does whatever he wants.

Trae Tha Truth 56:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Yeah. He does whatever he wants. It's amazing. He's got enough money and, you know, ability to get things done.

Trae Tha Truth 56:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:49 You know? I mean, that dude made his rocket extra pointy to be more like Spaceballs, right? Wasn't it Spaceballs?

Jamie Vernon 56:56 Mm-hmm.

Trae Tha Truth 56:58 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 56:58 He loves Spaceballs.

Joe Rogan 56:59 (laughs) He loves that movie, so he made the rocket extra pointy to be like the rocket from Spaceballs.

Trae Tha Truth 57:06 That shit probably cost him a few million just to do that shit.

Joe Rogan 57:08 Yeah, he doesn't give a fuck.

Trae Tha Truth 57:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:10 He's having fun. I like when billionaires have fun, you know? Do you use, uh, X?

Trae Tha Truth 57:16 Uh, I mean, here and there. So, uh, most of the stuff that I put on Instagram, I just rehab it on there.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 57:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Do you fuck with TikTok or any of the other ones too?

Trae Tha Truth 57:28 I'm learning it, man. So I've been more of a hands-on Instagram, so I have people that do, like, my TikTok. I can get on it if I want to and, um, I still don't even know nothing about Facebook. I have people doing that for me too, so...

Joe Rogan 57:43 Oh, right.

Trae Tha Truth 57:44 I literally can... Whatever I post from Instagram, I just take it there, 'cause I, I don't know, I built my Instagram following to... That's just who I'm used to.

Joe Rogan 57:55 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 57:56 You know what I'm saying? What do you use more?

Joe Rogan 57:57 I use Instagram most.

Trae Tha Truth 57:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:00 Yeah. But I love, uh, X for information. I still feel weird saying X.

Trae Tha Truth 58:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Twitter, whatever. I like that for information. It's just always interesting, always interesting stuff coming up.

Trae Tha Truth 58:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:12 You know?

Trae Tha Truth 58:13 I use Threads sometimes too. I... R- at this point, I just gotta keep up with the times.

Joe Rogan 58:17 Yeah. That's the weird thing, right? It's like there's always gonna be some new thing that you have to keep up with, and you won't know about it-

Trae Tha Truth 58:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:23 ... 'til it's too late. Like, "What's that? What is, what are you guys doing over there?"

Trae Tha Truth 58:27 But see, it work, the reason it work out for us, like... So I got my, um, m- And it's so crazy, I don't really get to put albums out. Like, you know, um, I l- I love my music, but every time I get ready to put a album out, a disaster hit or something happen and my energy and everything shift to that. So the music always get lost in the shuffle, and this the first time in a minute that nothing's really just distracting me. And, um, my album come out in October, October 20th matter of fact. Um, it's called Stuck in Motion, but being able to have the X, the TikTok, the all the... These are all different platforms that you really can use to promote, 'cause everybody don't use... You got some people that don't mess with Instagram and only use TikTok.

Joe Rogan 59:14 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 59:14 Some people now that... I don't know how, how heavy people are in the Threads, but some people only use X. So we found ways. We just use it for our benefit. You know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 59:26 Just use everything.

Trae Tha Truth 59:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:27 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 59:27 Everything we can at this point.

Joe Rogan 59:28 Everything. Just keep throwing it out there.

Trae Tha Truth 59:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:30 That's great. Uh, it's great you've had that time to concentrate on your album too. That must be very exciting.

Trae Tha Truth 59:36 Yeah, i- it is, man, because, you know... So this is the, the catch to the Smoke part, right? So, you know, everybody also have they, they thing, whatever. Some people may like to go work out to get out they frustration or whatever. Mine is I can vent through my music. You know, I, I done been through so much, I mastered just releasing it through my music, you know? And I... The way I paint the picture, you know, you have people actually feeling exactly how I feel at that moment, 'cause I, I'm not good at sitting up here like, "Man, joy, I had a terrible day today. This is going on. This, eh, uh..."

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 1:00:12 I don't feel comfortable, but if I do it through the music, it just, it's more relatable.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Hmm.

Trae Tha Truth 1:00:17 You know? I'm excited about it. Now, the funny thing, I'm gonna show you, I'll show you probably when we get off, I just did... I released a song called First Class, one of the first singles, 'cause I'm releasing singles every two weeks leading up to it. And in First Class I had, um, my, my bro Philly Flyboy shot it, and I had s- uh, some people, um, White Rhino VFX, they're from San Antonio, they edited my old school Cadillac drop to I'm flying around on a cloud. So it's just crazy. We were just talking about that shit, but-

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 1:00:51 ... super dope, man.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Oh, that is cool.

Trae Tha Truth 1:00:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Yeah. When, when you release this, does that... The beginning of a tour?

Trae Tha Truth 1:00:59 Um-Right now, hopefully. I mean, you know, it... Man, believe it or not, even if we've been in the game for as long as we do, we'd still be nervous and don't really know what comes about. You never know what record... Like, when we- when I released the album, you never know what record people are gonna take to. We don't know if one gonna take off or if you gotta build it up. But, realistically, the goal is when it comes out to get ready to get on the road, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 Mm.

Trae Tha Truth 1:01:25 I love, that's one thing I love. The- my two main things, or three, is my kids, the music, and just helping people, man. So you know, like, those are three things that excite me. But other than that, I like- I just- I venture off and just try everything. I feel like you get zero results if you don't try it, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 Well, that- that's a beautiful philosophy, the way you balance it all out. Y- that's a good thing 'cause, you know, a lot of us can get caught up in maybe o- one thing too much, you know? That just to have this idea of like your family, your job, everything, it's all... Everything deserves equal attention.

Trae Tha Truth 1:02:03 Yeah. And, uh, you know, uh, man, it's... With life, like I just be so realistic with everything, man, because, you know, we all have our good days, we all have our bad days, we all mess up time and time, you know? And for me, it's just how we bounce back. And even with some of the hiccups I done had within the- the last year or two, you know, it's all learning experiences. But I feel like even with this album, the reason I named it Stuck In Motion was rather than me be dwelling on shit that I could've done different or shit I could've done better, or to be just held back or sad or just trying to... You know, a lot of the times we complain about a bunch of shit, and I feel like I'm at a point in my life now it's like, man, you just gotta accept stuff for what it is. So the reason I named it Stuck In Motion is regardless of what I'm going through, I'm still moving, I'ma keep it moving which- whichever direction I'm aimed at, that's where I'm going. So I'm stuck in motion. That was the purpose of it, man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 That's a good name for it.

Trae Tha Truth 1:03:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 So, when you say you never know, like, how it's gonna be received, like, uh, but it's- is this your favorite?

Trae Tha Truth 1:03:09 Um, I think it's definitely... It's gonna be an important one in my- in my catalog because, you know, I- I'm from the streets, so most of my music is always gonna be that. This album is more just good vibe. I think it's more growth and more universal where you could just, for those who smoke, you can put it on (laughs) and just light your blunt up or you just get in your car and ride. So, for me, it's important 'cause I just feel like it's a album of- of growth, you know? I'm just showing I'm unbothered and I'm living life, I'm enjoying life. And, you know, a lot of people don't really understand, man. It don't take... It's not just about money to enjoy life, you know? It's- it's what different things you have that- that bring peace to you. So I just think I'm at a point in life where I'm just enjoying life, you know? And that's wh- that's why I think it's gonna be so- so important for me. And, um, what I'm doing to it als- what I'm doing with it also that's gonna make it different is, I don't know if you seen, they say you can put out... Like I'm shooting a video for every song, but in between the songs, I wanna do little short movie skits so it'll be like from a start to a finish, like a- a whole project where I'm making, put it on Amazon or something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 Oh, nice.

Trae Tha Truth 1:04:24 Yeah, so I'm just trying to think of this different creative shit with this, man.

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 I like that. I like that idea. Yeah. Yeah, just tie it in together, make a movie out of it.

Trae Tha Truth 1:04:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 It's a great idea.

Trae Tha Truth 1:04:34 I got a movie coming too, but this is just gonna be focused on the music, you know? From the m- 'cause you- you have different people, man. For me, you have different fans from different things, and, um, music-wise, I wanna make sure I- I make sure I set that one apart. But, um, it- it's definitely exciting. Um, one of my bros, he one of the main, um, DJs outta Houston, you know, that- that kinda can shift the culture, DJ Mister Rogers. I had him executive producing, you know, just from a musical standpoint to find records that he think people would take to. You know, which at the end of the day, we chose all the records I did, so it worked out. But um, that... Putting the, uh- all the visuals together to make it dope, and what I'm gonna do too that's gonna be creative so (smacks lips) when I was talking about the movie part, I'm gonna actually get actors for- for different roles, you know? So it'll just be something bigger than me just going standing on the corner, have one of my homeboys talking to me.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 That's a great idea. Are you gonna write it o- uh, like are you gonna write it out after the music? Like the music's done, right?

Trae Tha Truth 1:05:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 So are you now thinking about like how you're gonna put together a movie that ties in with all the songs?

Trae Tha Truth 1:05:52 So right now the- I guess the way that I'm really envisioning it is I just- each part I just create different scenarios, so at that point you don't really make it as I have to really write it out, you know what I'm saying? Just in between each skit what scenario that may be. It may be me in the mirror having a conversation with myself, but the reflection of the mirror may be a whole nother actor that's, you know, good- good guy, bad guy.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 Right.

Trae Tha Truth 1:06:18 So you just create different scenarios and then I just figure out how to tie it in, but for the most part it- it's just simple. I don't- it- I don't think it'll- it'll take too- too much. I just- I- I'm just excited to be doing it. Like I leave... It's so- it's so crazy when I was just telling you also that I have so many different people that, uh, support me in different ways, so when I leave here today, I fly to, um, LA for the BIMAC awards and they giving me the Change Agent award. Speaking of awards, I'm not sure if you know, I got probably every award you could think of from (laughs) anything you can think of from helping, fighting, whatever the situation may be, man. E- and that's a blessing. Like I've- I'm at a point now I be like, "Man, I don't really- you ain't gotta give me an award, I'm gonna do the work regardless." But-

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 It's nice to be recognized.

Trae Tha Truth 1:07:10 Yeah, and it's ... You don't want to, kind of, go against God's blessings, 'cause if he feel like, "Hey, I want you to be recognized for that-"

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 1:07:17 ... who am I say, like, "I don't need that shit." Like, "I can't do that."

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 Right. No, that's beautiful. Uh, you said you were doing another movie?

Trae Tha Truth 1:07:24 So the movie's done. It's called, um, Sole, and it's, it's a crazy story. Um, my, my guy, Philly Fly Boy, and Richie Rich out of Houston, they were just getting people to send in, um, scripts. And they found one that they like. It's Sole, it's about a shoe store, but, um, my father went to jail. He was a hustler. I ended up coming across some money and I got a shoe store, but when my father went to jail, he had $2 million that was, um, unaccounted for, shall we say. And so the whole movie, everybody ... It's a comedy, but everybody trying to get at me and get to me and harm me to try and figure out where the money is, but it's just, it's, it's more on some funny stuff, man. Like I said, I'm at a point now I'm just trying different stuff, like, um ... So that's gonna be dope. The ... And it actually come out any day on Tubi. I don't really understand the process of it, because I thought they'd give me a time and a date where I could promote it, but they just like, "You never know when it'll pop up. When it pop up, you just get to promoting it." But, um, doing that, the reason... What I was getting to, what I was going to tell you, I'm at a point of having fun, so what I also did, one of the videos on Stuck in Motion, a song called Reconsider, I went and got the original Ninja Turtles. I got, um, Batman, um, Deadpool, Lightning McQueen. So in that video I'm an actual superhero in that video. So I'm just trying different stuff, just having fun and just living life at this point, man.

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 That's beautiful.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 Just being creative.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Having a good time.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:04 Definitely, man. But yeah, the music, that, that's, that's my go-to. You know. Either that or just getting out the house. I don't know why I be, I be overexcited when I, when I help people, man. Just to see the, the fact of them knowing they not by their self and the fact of them knowing somebody actually care, that kind of get me in my excitement too, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 That's beautiful. That's excitement we all should be seeking, right?

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 You know? The ... When you're helping people, it's nice. It feels good.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:33 It definitely does, man.

Joe Rogan 1:09:34 And you, you dedicate a lot of time to it.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:37 And you should be rewarded for that. It's beautiful.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:39 But, you know, you never really do it for the, the reward side.

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 Of course, of course.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:43 You know? But-

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 Well, your rewards are spiritual, emotional, what you get from people.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:47 And, and, you know, different blessings come.

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 Yeah.

Trae Tha Truth 1:09:50 You know, man. I done ... When I tell you, I done just my career alone, I done been through a lot of shit, and I done had decades of bumping my head and then you may have the whole world turn against you, then you have to just keep pushing. It's like, I deal with so much different stuff, but that's one thing I don't stop doing, and every time, my blessings get bigger and bigger. Which I honestly think God put me through some of these processes because I feel like for me to go to the next level, he have to see if I'm really ready. So even now, like, one of my biggest things that's hard for me now is to imagine just not reacting to people, like, you know? 'Cause I'm one of them people, you can, you definitely can get under my skin. Like, imagine you at a, a UFC and somebody just ... You walk by and somebody like, "Oh, fuck you, Joe."

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 1:10:44 (laughs) You see ... Like, think about it now. You could do one of two things. You can, you can ignore it or you can be like, "Man, hold on. You got me fucked up." So-

Joe Rogan 1:10:53 (laughs)

Trae Tha Truth 1:10:54 (laughs) So, so dealing with phases or getting through ... That's all part of growth for, for what he got planned for me in the future, man, and that's, that's definitely a, a process of dealing.

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 Yeah. That's a part of the thing that comes with fame, right?

Trae Tha Truth 1:11:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:10 There's gonna be a certain bunch of people that get mad at you.

Trae Tha Truth 1:11:13 Yeah, definitely.

Joe Rogan 1:11:13 For whatever reason, whether it's valid or not.

Trae Tha Truth 1:11:16 Yeah. And I think, man, the, the hard part is dealing with it, because you have to deal with it, but the, the, the reality of it is, man, sometimes you got to get to a point, they going to think what they want to think regardless, man.

Joe Rogan 1:11:30 Yes.

Trae Tha Truth 1:11:31 And you got to just, you got to just keep it moving, you know? Even if you know their direct opinion or their direct thought may not necessarily be true, or it could be