Joe Rogan Experience #2069 - Dr. Shawn Baker

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      You good? And we're on.

   5. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:13

      Awesome.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      What's up, Sean? Good to see you.

   7. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:15

      Well, uh, good to be back, Joe. Thanks for-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You're still alive. You've been eating nothing but meat, and you're still alive.

   9. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:19

      (laughs) I am still alive, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:20

       Fucking doubters be gone. (laughs)

   11. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:22

       Yeah, yeah. Hey, Joe, before we get started, I just wanna say thank you for, one, for the stem cell stuff, but also for, you know, just, just having the conversations that other people are not willing to have. And, you know, we've... I've seen where they try to cancel you and all the BS, and, and, you know, you didn't have to do that. But you, you know, let other people have discussions who are not being censored, so just in case other people have... I'm sure you've been told that before, but-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Well, thank you.

   13. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:43

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       I appreciate that. It's a, uh, it, it's a weird time, man. It's-

   15. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:46

       It really is.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       It's... First of all, it's a weird time that a guy like me has a show.

   17. SBDr. Shawn Baker0:50

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Which is bizarre that this kind of, you know, that I'm a source of information in some sort of strange way, because that's certainly not what I set out to do. Just along the line, I, you know, I'm curious. I wanted to talk to people, you know, including you and, uh, this diet. And, you know, I tell people I, uh, I'm not strict with, uh, my carnivore diet. Like Saturday night, I had sushi, but I'll tell you, I felt like shit afterwards. (laughs) I ate a ton of it. I ate so much. I'm a glutton, but, uh, all that rice, I was like, "Oh." It just makes me realize, like how much better I feel when I only eat carnivore, when I, when I just eat mostly meat, I feel so much better. I mean, uh, maybe it's anecdotal. Maybe it's just me and you, maybe, a- and, and many other people that do it, but there's something to it. But you're an extreme example because you have been doing it now for how many years?

   19. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:46

       So, I'm starting my eighth year, so just, just, uh-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       Eighth year.

   21. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:51

       Yeah. So when I came to see you last time, it was almost, it was six years ago. So I had, I had been... just finished seven years now. So yeah, it's been a while.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       And people should know that you're l- you're actually a doctor. You're an orthopedic surgeon, and you didn't, didn't at one point in time they took your license away because you were providing medical information, but you got it back?

   23. SBDr. Shawn Baker2:09

       Yeah, it was kind of an interesting thing. So when I was, I was practicing medicine, busy orthopedic surgeon, you know, plugging away, doing a thing. And then I started realizing, "Hey, I can have people avoid surgery by changing their diet," and their pain went away. And I was like, "You don't need surgery." Well, that is not what hospitals want you to do. They want you to, you know, keep the, keep the, the engines turning, so to speak. And so I, you know, said, "Hey, look, I wanna practice some lifestyle stuff." And that ended up, you know, uh, leading to a long battle with myself and the hospital. The hospital basically suspended my privileges and went to the state. The state said, "Hey, you can fight this," um, y- you know, in, in our, in our sort of state medical board situation, "or you can get independently evaluated." And I said, "Well, let me just get independently evaluated 'cause I don't, I don't, I don't see eye to eye with the hospital." And so that was done. It was like right at the time when I saw you a couple days before, and they came back and said, "There's nothing wrong with you. Go back to work." And so I got that, I got that, and then I had to, you know, reapply to the board, reapply for a license. They r- r- granted my license, and I've renewed it three times since then. So I'm a licensed medical, you know, l- licensed doctor, you know? Uh, but I just... You know, right now, I'm not actually actively practicing because I got frustrated with the medical system. I think our healthcare system has some serious, serious problems, you know, some serious conflicts of interest, some serious... I think the, the incentives for providing what I think is appropriate healthcare is, is misaligned. And so, you know, over the last few years, so we set up a company. It's called Revero, and we're, we're licensed in all 50 states. We have physicians all across the country, and we're basically set up to provide what I call actual healthcare, root cause medicine, get people off the medications, actually, you know, try and fix their d- d- their disease and not just medicate everybody 'cause we have such a s- system where everybody's just like, you know, you go to the doctor, you know, "Here's your diagnosis, here's your drugs. Keep... Stay on them the rest of your life," which I think is the wrong-

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       Yeah.

   25. SBDr. Shawn Baker3:59

       ... the wrong course.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       Yeah, I couldn't agree more. What, what, what's the name of the company again?

   27. SBDr. Shawn Baker4:03

       So the company's called Revero, R-E-V-E-R-O.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:05

       Okay.

   29. SBDr. Shawn Baker4:05

       And so we raised a bunch of money from, from crowdfunding and also a bunch of venture capitalists. And so, uh, we've been, we've been basically building that. We've got thousands of people that are basically on the waiting list. We launch in a couple weeks. And so, uh, you know, so like I said, it's gonna be something that I think will provide healthcare as it should be. You know, instead of, like I said, instead of the, just the symptom management, putting Band-Aids on stuff, actually getting people healthy 'cause I think a l- a lot of diseases are, are reversible, and we've seen that all the time. You know, we see that pretty frequently.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:33

       Well, that's one of the most fascinating things about this carnivore diet, is how many, albeit anecdotal stories, you have of people that had all these different conditions, chronic pain, rheumatoid arthritis, chronic fatigue, all these different issues, skin issues, eczema, all these different things that they were treating with medication, it wasn't working. They were experiencing side effects. They start eliminating everything from their diet except for meat, and all of a sudden, these problems go away. I mean, there's too many of those stories for it to be ignored.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Where did the theory…

   1. SBDr. Shawn Baker15:00

      outta UCLA. I think he's one of the UC- he's a- he's attached to UCLA somewhere. And basically what they did was they took 100 people, all who have sky-high cholesterol. We're talking like total cholesterol of 500, 600, 700 milligrams per deciliter. It's enough to give your, your doctor a heart attack. You know, you walk in there with your cholesterol's like 600. "What the hell?" So he's got all these patients there that they are all otherwise metabolically healthy though. None of them are diabetics, none of them have bl- blood pressures or ... they're relatively lean. And what they did was they did high-level CT angiography of these people, looking really detailed at how much plaque's in their blood vessels and they're all older guys. They're like average age like our age, like mid-50s, like middle, late 50s, right? So this is where you'd expect to start seeing heart disease. And when they did that scan, almost none of them had any level of significant, you know, vascular disease. They were like clean, clean arteries. And so, so what ... and what they're doing is they're running them for a year and then they're gonna repeat the study, right, and say, "In one year, has anything occurred?" Now the criticism of that will be that, oh, it takes 20 years to do that, but Matt Budoff is like the world-leading expert on how fast vascular disease develops, right? So he's the guy that designed the study. He, he, he knows this stuff and so he said a year will show us for sure if vascular disease is gonna occur. So what they're doing on the 8th is they're, they're showing the preliminary data that shows all these people have n- almost no heart disease and they compare it to something called the MI- Miami Heart, uh, Dataset, which is like, like the, the, like the, the perfect dataset for if you wanna compare what's going on with vascular disease. And so in February they'll finish up, uh, the collection of data and then we'll get to see what happens after a year. Now I suspect what'll happen is it'll show no progression, little progression or even reversal, which would be shocking because all these people are saying cholesterol causes heart disease. 'Cause if you listen, you know, listen to guys like ... 'cause I know you got Peter on here, Peter Attia on here and he says, "Look, it's just a matter of how much cholesterol over how much time. If it's high for a long period of time, you're gonna get heart disease." But if this turns out to be what it, what, what I think it's gonna show, which, which it likely will show, then that throws a monkey wrench in that whole, whole, uh, theory because it's like, wait a minute. Maybe it's a dependent variable. Maybe if you're not fat, you know, out of shape, have high blood pressure and diabetes, that that LDL cholesterol being high is not as much of a problem as we thought it was, which is ... I mean, that's really ... I mean, that's, that's paradigm-shifting, quite honestly.

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:25

      Where did the theory of LDL cholesterol being bad for you come from?

   3. SBDr. Shawn Baker17:31

      Well, I mean, that goes back into the ... I mean, w- when they started looking at cholesterol, this is in rabbits way back in like the 1920s or something like that. They started feeding rabbits high-cholesterol diets and the rabbits got heart disease.

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:41

      Well, rabbits don't really eat high-cholesterol diets.

   5. SBDr. Shawn Baker17:43

      No, they don't. They don't, really. It's, it's an unnatural diet for them, but they, they started looking at, you know, th- the associational data started out back in the '50s when Eisenhower had his heart attack and everybody's freaking out because, uh, y- you know, we saw a rise in, in heart disease, you know, 1940s, 1950s and it's been ... you know, it's been our number one killer in Western, uh, populations since then. And so a guy named Ancel Keys was one of, one of the ones that started, uh, promoting that theory. They did, you know, associational studies where they say, "Well, look at these countries. They eat a lot of saturated fat and they don't ... they have high cholesterol and they die more, more commonly of heart disease."... um, and so that, that basically data has been done over and over again. I mean, they've done g- uh, Mendelian randomization studies, which there's some problems with th- those, those types of things. They've done, um, you know, studies where they can show that, you know, we can lower cholesterol and cardiovascular disease decreases. So we know that, you know, that's the whole premise behind statin drugs. Some people think it's a pleomorphic effect or it's like a side effect, like maybe it's decreasing the inflammation and by decreasing the inflammation, you're actually improving heart disease. But there's been, I mean there, I mean there's a ton of evidence that would point to yes, that is what's going on. Now, what I would say is, again, you're looking at a general population and, and the other thing is all-caused mortality. So clearly there's a lot of evidence that points to like, like normally they, they like your total cholesterol below like 190 or LDL below 100, something like that. But if we look at like population studies and all-caused mortality, cancer, uh, heart disease, uh, dementia, infectious disease, so on and so forth, the people with higher cholesterol actually live longer. They, they're, they're the ones that live longer. And so the question is, you know, maybe I won't get a heart attack, but I'm gonna get cancer instead because my cholesterol is too low, perhaps. Now the critics of that'll say it's reversed causality. It's like well, the only reason your cholesterol was low was because you had cancer, right? And cancer is making your, your cholesterol go down because cholesterol, LDL cholesterol and some of the other lipoproteins actually have a function there. They participate in our immune response. So they're, it's there for a reason, it's not just for the hell of it, right? We have a reason for this stuff. Um, and so the, you know, but there's a, I mean there's a, uh, a plethora of studies on this stuff. Some of it's been paid for by the pharmaceutical industries, which, you know, of course there's a little bit of conflict of interest in, in some of that, you know, I would imagine. Um, but again, if you talk to 99% of cardiologists, they'll, they'll be on board with this. But like I said, this sort of population, which we never studied, we have no data on these people. You know, it's like, like, like if you go on a carnivore diet and Joe, I, I know you've gotten lean, you feel good, probably your blood pressure is good, probably your, you know, your, um, your glucose is good, is that mean it's dangerous for you? And, and the answer is we don't know yet, but this, this study will shed a ton of light on this, and so this is coming out. Like I said, the preliminary da- uh, data December 8th when Budoff presents to the, to the big conference and then, and then when they finish the collecting the all, the full data in February, they'll probably publish that probably spring, summer, something like that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:38

      Are you aware of any of the results?

   7. SBDr. Shawn Baker20:41

      I'm aware of the preliminary data, right, and, and they're (laughs) ... I talked to the researchers and they're like, "Man, we don't..." They know the results, but they don't wanna share it 'cause they don't want, they don't want the cat getting out of the bag early. But it's gonna, we're gonna get it on December 8th and basically it's gonna... What I th- what I think, I'm, I'm, I'm 90% certain what it's gonna show is people with super high cholesterol that are otherwise super lean and healthy compared to the average population have less risk for cardiovascular disease based on this data. That's what I think is gonna happen. Now we'll know for sure on December 8th when Budoff presents.

   8. JRJoe Rogan21:10

      There's also an issue with dietary cholesterol and what dietary cholesterol, how it shows up in the body.

   9. SBDr. Shawn Baker21:18

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:18

       People have this assumption that when you consume dietary cholesterol, it raises b- uh, cholesterol that you can measure in the blood.

   11. SBDr. Shawn Baker21:25

       Yeah. That's, that's been shown to be completely... Uh, in fact 2015, USDA said, "No, cholesterol does not cause elevated cholesterol in the blood." That's been shown now because now what they'll-

   12. JRJoe Rogan21:37

       Which is fascinating.

   13. SBDr. Shawn Baker21:37

       Which is fascinating.

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:38

       Right?

   15. SBDr. Shawn Baker21:38

       But they'll say, what they will say is saturated fat, which often runs with cholesterol because the only reason... The only place you get cholesterol is in animal products and very often, you'll get saturated fat in animal products and so they'll say but it's, it's not the cholesterol, but it's actually the saturated fat.

   16. JRJoe Rogan21:51

       But we know that saturated fat was demonized by the sugar industry-

   17. SBDr. Shawn Baker21:55

       W- yeah, I mean-

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:55

       ... in that bullshit study that they put, put out in the 1960s where they paid these guys the equivalent of $50,000 today to lie.

   19. SBDr. Shawn Baker22:04

       Yeah, I mean that's, that, that's clearly, that clearly happened. That was Harvard University where they basically took a bunch of money to basically demonize fat and, and protect sugar, and I think that's been going on for-

   20. JRJoe Rogan22:14

       Which is wild.

   21. SBDr. Shawn Baker22:15

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:15

       The sugar industry bribed those doctors-

   23. SBDr. Shawn Baker22:17

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:17

       ... and that information has been the basis that people have been making recommendations on forever, on a fraudulent study, and still to this day, doctors will cite that not knowing it. And when you tell them about it, they're like, "What are you talking about?" And then you'll show, uh, pull it up on Google and they just go, "Huh. What is this?"

   25. SBDr. Shawn Baker22:36

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       Like there's so many doctors that aren't aware that the demonization of saturated fat was specifically caused by these papers, by these doctors that were bribed.

   27. SBDr. Shawn Baker22:45

       Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it, it, it is crazy to think, uh, how much, you know, I, uh, you know, you'd think that science would be a quest to find the truth or, or to explain the observations around us. But a lot of times, you know, science now is marketing. I mean it really is. I mean it's paid for, companies are gonna benefit from this. You know, you think about a lot of these academic institutions, a lot of their funding comes through industry and, and they don't get funding if they don't get the results that they're, they're, they're getting paid for, so...

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:12

       It's even more insidious than that because the people that are involved in the FDA eventually go and work for these corporations, which is so-

   29. SBDr. Shawn Baker23:21

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:21

       ... wild. When you see that happen and you go oh my God, there's a clear revolving door. It's not like shell corporations or some secret hidden money overseas. No, it's like right in front of your face. These people work for the government, they make these laws and they make these recommendations and then they go on to get these incredible jobs where they get paid lucrative amounts of money.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   It is crazy, and…

   1. SBDr. Shawn Baker30:00

   2. GUGuest30:00

      It is crazy, and it's crazy that they don't look to diet as being the primary cause of that. Or if they do, they look to these epidemiology studies that don't take into account exactly what you're eating with the meat. Why is it meat that's always demonized?

   3. SBDr. Shawn Baker30:15

      Well, I think for a number of reasons. One, if you go back to like...... dietetics in the beginning. Like, back in 1917, the American Dietetics Association was formed. This was formed literally by Seventh-day Adventists. So that from the very, very beginning, the creation of the nutrition science field, these Seventh-day Adventists who are, you know, religiously regi- vegetarians, you know, you go back to, uh, like, uh, the Kellogg's brothers. You know, John Harvey Kellogg, where he's out there, you know, uh, circumcising females and saying, "We got ... we can't eat meat because it's gonna make you have sex and make you have lust and masturbate." This is all, like, this religious stuff. And then it got c- y-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      People don't know that.

   5. SBDr. Shawn Baker30:52

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:52

      But they, they should know that.

   7. SBDr. Shawn Baker30:53

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:53

      That he developed this cereal, this bland cereal-

   9. SBDr. Shawn Baker30:56

      Right. Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:56

       ... to discourage masturbation, which is one of the wildest things I have ever heard.

   11. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:01

       Yeah, that guy was a wacko, man. He was in there freaking g-

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       He was a wild dude. (laughs)

   13. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:03

       He was giving himself, like, high pressure enemas every day.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       (laughs)

   15. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:06

       It was just, like, fucking 20 gallons a minute enemas because he thought that was something.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:10

       Really?

   17. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:10

       Yeah. He was a wacko. He was a really nutty guy. You read about some of this stuff.

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       20-gallon enemas?

   19. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:14

       It was, it was some ridiculous, like, super high capacity, like, a Soper Soaker on steroids thing, just (imitates water splashing)

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:19

       Are enemas bad for you? 'Cause I've always wondered-

   21. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:22

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       If your internal gut flora is important, and it is, isn't that getting washed out?

   23. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:28

       I think to some degree it is. I don't know that anybody's really l- looked at it from that angle. But, uh, I, you know, I, I think in some cases, like, you know, some people's got s- some problems with constipation, it could be helpful. But I don't think it's generally a healthy practice for most. But I know there's people that are like, like, putting weird stuff up their butt. Man, it's just kind of like ... it's like one of those, like, things.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:46

       I think it probably feels good-

   25. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:47

       It might. Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       ... to get it flushed out.

   27. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:48

       It might. It might feel good.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:48

       Well, it also makes you see everything come outta you, I guess.

   29. SBDr. Shawn Baker31:51

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:51

       I've never done it.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   There it is. …

   1. SBDr. Shawn Baker45:00

      called Prevotella copri, I think, or something like that. And so we're seeing, yeah-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      There it is.

   3. SBDr. Shawn Baker45:04

      So high-fiber diet synergizes and exacerbates rheumatoid arthritis. So basically, you know, it's showing that, yeah, I mean, there, there can be problems with fiber for a lot of people, particularly if they have these issues. And so ...

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      So when people say that fiber's beneficial, what they're essential sa- essentially saying is that if you have a poor diet, if you have a, a diet that's rich in ultra-processed foods and garbage, fiber would be beneficial to you because it would help ... What does it do? It helps push that food-

   5. SBDr. Shawn Baker45:31

      Well, I think it's, I think it's displacing, I think it's displacing the garbage off the plate, right? So if you-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:35

      Uh-huh.

   7. SBDr. Shawn Baker45:35

      If you load your plate up with fruits and vegetables, which I think generally, I'm not a guy that says vegetables are trying to kill you and, and nobody should. I know there's other people. It's kind of funny. The carnivore, you talk about cults and carnivore's kind of become a cult, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:45

      Right.

   9. SBDr. Shawn Baker45:45

      And it's not because of me. I'm like, I tell people, "Hey, we're omnivores. This is a therapeutic protocol. Use it for as long as you like. If you want to do it for a lifestyle, have at it. It's fine. I'm not gonna ... " But I'm, but, but what I think was happening with fiber in a lot of ways, 'cause this fiber goes back to, uh, uh, what was the researcher's name? I'm blanking on his name. He had a cancer named after him, but anyway, from 1920s, 1930s, goes to Uganda in Africa and notices like, oh, these people aren't fat and sick like they are in England. And, uh, Burkitt, Denis Burkitt's the guy's name. And he says, "Well, oh, they're eating a lot of fiber." But they weren't also, they weren't eating a lot of sugar, and they weren't eating a lot of garbage like they were in the UK 'cause sugar's been around since about the 1600s and, and, and progressively has increased. I mean, the US right now, it's kind of interesting, like compared to like the 18, early 1800s, the average kid by the age of something like eight has eaten more sugar than they would have in a lifetime back, you know, 150 years ago. So it's kind of crazy.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:38

       By the time they're eight?

   11. SBDr. Shawn Baker46:39

       By the time they're eight years old, the average eight-year-old has eaten more sugar than somebody would have eaten in their entire life, you know?

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       (laughs)

   13. SBDr. Shawn Baker46:45

       And, and that's just the normal kids. You know, you see some of these kids who are just like ... I mean, I got ... Jamie, I got a picture I gotta show you. This is so incredible, Jamie. There's a, there's a gal, before and after picture. We got this food addiction stuff. So, so I interviewed a gal. She was 800 pounds, right? It's like how, how do you get to 800 pounds? It's like impossible. Like I could, I don't think I could do it if I tried, right? I mean, I don't, you know. Food, food addict. Couldn't stop eating chocolate and ice cream and all that stuff. And this is her-

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Whoa.

   15. SBDr. Shawn Baker47:13

       Uh, she's eight- almost 800 pounds or 350 kilos, which is the most I've ever deadlifted, so that's, that's kind of an interesting weight.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:18

       (laughs)

   17. SBDr. Shawn Baker47:20

       But 22 months, she goes on carnivore, right? I interviewed her a while back, and she's now lost almost 500 pounds on carnivore when nothing else would work for her. I mean, she literally, I mean, she told me, it was like, "I finally found the off switch." She tried Weight Watchers. She tried like gastric by- you know, band surgery. She tried vegan diets. She tried juicing. She tried Weight Watch. She tried every single thing you could think of, but could never stop, stop it, and finally for the first time in her life, she's like, "I finally found freedom from this food addiction."

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:49

       Wow.

   19. SBDr. Shawn Baker47:49

       And, you know, recent studies show that, uh, that other guy in the hat, this is a funny guy. This guy in the hat right there, his name is, uh, oh, what's his name? I'm, I'm blanking on his ... Todd. He's a dude out in Montana, right? He was 770 pounds, right? Same sort of situation. Started drinking Cokes when he was, he, when he was 14 years old. I'm doing the interview and he, he goes, "Yeah." So, you know, I didn't, I didn't know who he was and he starts telling me. He goes, "Yeah, when I was 14, I was 600 pounds." I'm like, "What? 600 pounds at 14?" It's like how the hell can you get to 400 bu- You know, and they're, they're a poor family and his mom and sister and everybody in the family's, you know, very obese, and they had tried gi- gastric bypass and it didn't work for them, but same thing with this kid. I mean, he's just like, I call him a kid, he's 40. He went carnivore and for the first time in his life he's like, I don't need the sugar and I don't need the Coke. He was drinking like 20 Cokes a day or some ridiculous stuff.

   20. JRJoe Rogan48:36

       (sighs)

   21. SBDr. Shawn Baker48:36

       And he just blew up and blew up and he could not stop until ... And this is why, one of the reasons I think, I think they know this. I mean, the food industry knows they're making addictive food. They clearly know that. In fact, I had a gal who worked for one of the major food manufacturing companies, and her job, she was a, she was a chemist, uh, and her job was to design food to be as addictive as possible. And she literally told me that. She goes, "I can no longer get, live with the guilt, and I wanna come work for you guys." And, you know, she was just so like, just beside herself. She says she realizes what she's created with this epidemic of disease and suffering. I mean, 'cause these people are suffering. Did you see that movie The Whale? Did you ever see that movie?

   22. JRJoe Rogan49:12

       I did not.

   23. SBDr. Shawn Baker49:12

       ... it's good. It's an interesting movie. So it's, it's, you know, Brendan Fraser and he's, it's like a 700 pound dude.

   24. JRJoe Rogan49:17

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SBDr. Shawn Baker49:17

       It shows he lives in his cou- he lives in his recliner. He can't barely get up, he can barely go to the bathroom, refrigerator next to him, and his whole life is in there. And this guy did the same thing. He said he spent like... He said he went, he fasted one time for 40 days trying to lose weight just... And he never left his chair. He let... He just sat there for 40 days and didn't eat.

   26. JRJoe Rogan49:33

       Wow.

   27. SBDr. Shawn Baker49:33

       Can you imagine? That's like hell. That's like hell on earth. You know, but now he's like, now he's going back to work. He's getting out in the field and he's working doing like electrical work or something like that. But I mean, it's just the sugar in one way... You know, I know there's people out there saying, "Listen, uh, sugar's fine." Solseed oils and stuff like that. But I think clearly there are people that are addicted to either sugar or sugary foods, you know. It's like, you know, because you like would you eat chocolate if there's no sugar in it? I mean, it's like, eh, you know, that, that 100% dark. It's kind of like... Have you tried that? Have you-

   28. JRJoe Rogan50:02

       It's kind of gross.

   29. SBDr. Shawn Baker50:03

       It is. It's like the only reason you eat that stuff is 'cause there's sugars in there. So people say, "Well, no one's, no one's mainlining bags of sugar." But I mean, actually, I know people that have actually done that. I mean, it's kind of crazy if you, if you see these people that are so addicted to this stuff, but-

   30. JRJoe Rogan50:13

       They mainline the sugar?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:04:53

   It's sensitive, but it…

   1. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:00:00

      um, you know, it's kind of-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      It's sensitive, but it shouldn't be.

   3. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:00:02

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

      It- it should be sensitive the other way. You should- everyone at this point in time should realize that we got hoodwinked.

   5. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:00:07

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

      Everyone should realize that it was an overall net negative for children that got kept out of schools, masks, all- all the shit that we saw that went on. Forget about just the vaccines. The lockdowns, just what they did, the closing of businesses, the essential businesses, that they had big chains m- labeled as essential, but these small mom and pop stores were forced to go under. People had worked their whole lives to develop these businesses and they took them away from them, and it's fucked up. And the fact that no one is outraged still and that this narrative has been allowed to be portrayed through the- the mass media that this isn't a major problem and that this cannot happen again, like, this is fucking madness, man.

   7. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:00:53

      Yeah, it's like y- well, you see the shirt I'm wearing here. This is from my jujitsu coach. This guy's named Greg Anderson. He was a- he was a spec-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:59

      I know that dude.

   9. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:00:59

      Oh, you know Greg Anderson? He's-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

       I follow him on Instagram.

   11. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:01

       He's a good guy. So, he, uh, Special Forces- or Special Operations rather, Army Ranger, 15, 14, 15 tours overseas. Comes back as a Seattle cop and- during the pandemic and he- they were like, "Hey, you need to go arrest this lady for doing people's nails at her home." And he's like, "I'm not doing that. This is total bullshit," right? And he- and he- and he made a video and it went viral-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       Yeah.

   13. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:22

       And the cops, the Seattle Police Com-, you know, Commissioner said, "Hey, Greg. We agree in principle what you're saying, but you gotta take down that video." Like, we, we ... And he just said, "No, fuck you. I'm not gonna do it." So they fired him. And so he got like, like a GoFundMe page and he raised a bunch of money and he opened a jujitsu studio and a CrossFit gym. He's like, "I make more money now (laughs) as a jujitsu guy than I ever did as a, as a cop." So he's-

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       He's great online, too. He's very wise.

   15. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:44

       Yeah. He's, he's just, he's a good ... And he, he always beats my ass whenever I roll against him.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:47

       (laughs)

   17. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:47

       He always arm bars me, that motherfucker, man. It's just like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       Of course.

   19. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:50

       It's just like, I try... I ... One time, one round, I got to, like, within two seconds of the round end and he, he didn't got me, and he got me in the last second. So it's kind of like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:56

       (laughs)

   21. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:58

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

       Well, that's the process.

   23. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:01:59

       Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:00

       I mean, one day you'll be doing that to people.

   25. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:02:02

       Yeah, hopefully.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

       You can stay healthy.

   27. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:02:03

       Hopefully, if I stay healthy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

       And that's what the stem cells are for, today.

   29. SBDr. Shawn Baker1:02:05

       Yeah, exactly. Well, ex- and, and appreciate it. That was ... I guess we may chat about that. So you've been doing stem cells for, for a while, right, Joe? It's like-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:10

       Oh, I've cured some really serious injuries with stem cells.

Episode duration: 2:08:42