Joe Rogan Experience #2070 - Evan Hafer

1. 0:00 – 1:53

   IQ thresholds, military cutoffs, and joking about eugenics

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (drumbeats) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      ... as far as, like, cage fighting commentators go.

   3. EHEvan Hafer0:15

      (laughs) That's- that's what you're classifying yourself as? (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Yeah, pothead, comedian, slash cage fighting commentator.

   5. EHEvan Hafer0:21

      Cage fighting commentator.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      I got a pretty solid IQ for that.

   7. EHEvan Hafer0:25

      No, that's great.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      So you said it was, uh, the average, there's 16% of America-

   9. EHEvan Hafer0:31

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       ... that has below 85 IQ?

   11. EHEvan Hafer0:33

       Correct. So that's the cutoff for military service. So they can't take-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       This ki-

   13. EHEvan Hafer0:39

       ... somebody in.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       This is the kinda talk to start Hitler off.

   15. EHEvan Hafer0:42

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       This is (laughs) this is like (laughs) , when they start getting into the master race-

   17. EHEvan Hafer0:46

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       ... eugenic ... 'Cause you know, like, I would never, ever say that people shouldn't breed. I would never say anything like that. I would never-

   19. EHEvan Hafer0:54

       You wouldn't?

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       I would never.

   21. EHEvan Hafer0:56

       (laughs) Are you serious?

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       We were ... (laughs) If we were in elk hunting camp, I probably could tell you that.

   23. EHEvan Hafer1:02

       Yeah, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       But, uh, publicly, I would never say that.

   25. EHEvan Hafer1:04

       You would never say it on this podcast?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. I don't know what my parents' IQs were. What if my parents were, you know, like, what if, uh, my, they got IQs and their IQ tests were really low?

   27. EHEvan Hafer1:18

       Uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       But I mean, isn't it possible that someone who's re- not that bright has a super smart kid, like they give them enough vaccines, and the gi- kid comes out a genius?

   29. EHEvan Hafer1:27

       I hope that's the case for my kids. (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       (laughs)
2. 1:53 – 4:23

   Genius guests, Eric Weinstein’s complexity, and rejecting “trust the experts”

   1. EHEvan Hafer1:53

      Like, I've, I've got max RPMs going on up here, down here. Yeah, I, I ... What? God, I had dinner with, uh, Eric Weinstein one night, too.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:01

      Yeah, see that's what I'm talking about.

   3. EHEvan Hafer2:03

      It's crazy. I'm just trying to, like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:06

      Impossible to keep up.

   5. EHEvan Hafer2:07

      It's like you're at VO2 max, and he hasn't even, like, stepped off the curb mentally.

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:12

      Yeah, he's not even sweating.

   7. EHEvan Hafer2:12

      Yeah, he's like, "Let me explain this to you." He took, he got out the crayons and drew me some pictures.

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:17

      (laughs)

   9. EHEvan Hafer2:17

      He's like, "This is how it fucking works."

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:19

       Dude, he literally wrote ... I don't even know if it's been disproven. See, this is the thing. The stuff that he discusses-

   11. EHEvan Hafer2:25

       (clears throat)

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       ... is so complex-

   13. EHEvan Hafer2:26

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:27

       ... that there's only, like, um, what, what are the, what's the amount of people in the world that could even argue with him about it? But he wrote a-

   15. EHEvan Hafer2:34

       10?

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:34

       He wrote a theory of everything.

   17. EHEvan Hafer2:36

       The theory of everything.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:37

       And he wro- he, he announced it on this podcast. He, like published this-

   19. EHEvan Hafer2:41

       Yes.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       ... theory, and he's putting it out there for people to judge. And I don't know how it's been received. I don't know. I ... But how, w- how would I know? I mean, I would never understand who's right. Like, one of the things that I've learned during COVID, this whole trust the experts thing, suck my dick. Okay? That's-

   21. EHEvan Hafer2:57

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       ... nonsense. There's a lot of these people that are fucking-

   23. EHEvan Hafer3:00

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       ... full of shit, and bought and paid for, and I don't trust just the experts anymore. I trust some experts. I trust if I can understand what they're talking about, and I know where maybe their conflicts lie, I can see, "Well, why would they be ignoring certain studies, but highlighting others? Oh, there's a conflict of interest. Oh, there's some money involved. Oh, maybe there's a revolving door-"

   25. EHEvan Hafer3:26

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       "... and they can get into some nice agency or some corporation after they're done with the agency." I, I can kind of look at that, but it takes time. With this shit? When, when he's talking about it, I have no idea who the experts are.

   27. EHEvan Hafer3:39

       (laughs) No.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       I have no idea what he ... He's literally talking about a theory of everything.

   29. EHEvan Hafer3:43

       He was (laughs) ... You, we were, and it was Bryan Callen and me, and it was this wild conversation, because-

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Did you even get to talk?
3. 4:23 – 8:16

   Debate culture: intellectual ‘dunking’ vs honest persuasion

   1. EHEvan Hafer4:23

      I ... Have you watched those, uh, the Monk debates with him?

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:26

      Yes. Yes, I did.

   3. EHEvan Hafer4:26

      Those are incredible. Like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:27

      Amazing, yeah.

   5. EHEvan Hafer4:28

      Like, him and, uh, was it Malcolm Gladwell? Um, that, that debate when he, like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:34

      Yes.

   7. EHEvan Hafer4:35

      ... Douglas Murray.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:36

      Yes.

   9. EHEvan Hafer4:36

      Jordan Peterson, like that, that thing was so good.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       It's so good.

   11. EHEvan Hafer4:40

       Because I just love watching those guys intellectually eviscerate people, because it's hilarious to me.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:46

       I do, but it, it becomes a bit of an intellectual rap battle.

   13. EHEvan Hafer4:51

       Hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       And that's what I don't like about it.

   15. EHEvan Hafer4:52

       Yeah, okay.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       I just feel like it's beneath those guys. And when I see guys like Malcolm, like, dunking on people, I'm like, "Ugh."

   17. EHEvan Hafer5:02

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:02

       "Wha- uh, shouldn't we just be discussing the data? Like, shouldn't you ... instead of trying to invoke an emotional response from someone?" I, I understand why you would do that if you were fucking with someone, if you wanted to, like, have an argument with someone. But like, "What i- what is this publicly for?"

   19. EHEvan Hafer5:18

       Hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       "Why is it public?" Well, it's public 'cause we're trying to understand who's right and who's wrong. I want to know why you think the way you think.

   21. EHEvan Hafer5:24

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:24

       There's clearly many different schools of thought when it comes to many cultural things. Uh, and people are fiercely opposed to the other side. I want to know where you're coming from.

   23. EHEvan Hafer5:34

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       If you're dunking on people, like now I do know where you're coming from.

   25. EHEvan Hafer5:38

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       I don't like that.

   27. EHEvan Hafer5:38

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       I don't like, I don't ... 'Cause like, first of all, it's not anything that funny. If you're gonna do it, be good at it. Like-

   29. EHEvan Hafer5:43

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:43

       Be, be fucking funny. And also, it's not necessary to this argument. This, this discussion. You should really be talking about why you really believe what you believe.
4. 8:16 – 12:12

   From Buckley vs Vidal to podcasts: why long-form conversation won

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:16

      ... chess, it's like you're playing this game. There's a bunch of moves, and trying to figure out who can get their moves off. But I think people genuinely want to kn- like, did you ever see that movie, there's a documentary about, um, uh, god, what was it called? The one about G- Gore Vidal and, um, that, what's that guy, the...

   2. NANarrator8:41

      Best of Enemies?

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:42

      Yes, Best of Enemies.

   4. EHEvan Hafer8:43

      No, I haven't seen it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:44

      Gore Vidal and, what's the fucking other guy's name? I always forget his name.

   6. NANarrator8:47

      William Buckley.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:47

      Yeah, William Buckley.

   8. EHEvan Hafer8:48

      Oh.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:48

      So Buckley's the Conservative-

   10. EHEvan Hafer8:50

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:50

       ... and Gore Vidal is the-

   12. EHEvan Hafer8:51

       Yes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:51

       ... the, the, and they aired these, I think it was on NBC? Is that what it was on? ABC or NBC?

   14. EHEvan Hafer8:57

       Oh, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       But it got huge ratings.

   16. EHEvan Hafer9:00

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:00

       Like, they were losing in the ratings, and this was kind of a Hail Mary.

   18. EHEvan Hafer9:03

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:04

       Have William F. Buckley as the leading Conservative and Gore Vidal, who's this wild Liberal. And so they were on, uh, Moderated on ABC?

   20. EHEvan Hafer9:14

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:15

       ABC, uh, News Coverage of the Republican National Convention in Miami. So this is 1968. They're fucking great, man.

   22. EHEvan Hafer9:22

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       Because they're, one of the things that people are knowing through, learning through podcasts, when you talk about guys like Eric Weinstein or guys like Jordan Peterson, or Sam Harris.

   24. EHEvan Hafer9:31

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:31

       People wanna hear people talk, f- they wanna, uh, there's, the people that are above that 85 IQ. (laughs)

   26. EHEvan Hafer9:40

       (laughs)

   27. NANarrator9:40

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:40

       You know, what is it? 84% of the population?

   29. NANarrator9:42

       Yes.

   30. EHEvan Hafer9:42

       Yeah.
5. 12:12 – 19:33

   Hollywood incentives, acting ‘craziness,’ and the economics of being chosen

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:12

      That, because he never stopped being a comic.... Bill Maher, out of all these guys that become hosts of talk shows-

   2. EHEvan Hafer12:20

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:21

      ... he never stopped just being a comic. He never stopped touring, he never stopped doing all of his live shows, never stopped being a comic. That's what separates Bill.

   4. EHEvan Hafer12:31

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:31

      'Cause there's a lot of these guys... Look, man, you get a job like the host of The Tonight Show or something along those lines, that, you are fucking set, baby.

   6. EHEvan Hafer12:39

      Dude, that is like-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:40

      Let's go. I'm buying a Ferrari.

   8. EHEvan Hafer12:42

      Yeah, I mean we're, we're-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:43

      I got a house in Maui.

   10. EHEvan Hafer12:45

       (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       You know, like you're balling out of control and there's a lot of, lot of like pressure to keep that going and to, to appease the people-

   12. EHEvan Hafer12:55

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       ... that would make those decisions, and to also be as marketable as humanly possible-

   14. EHEvan Hafer13:00

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:00

       ... to everybody out there in the world so that you can maintain this job. So whether or not there's like ver-... Uh, why don't they sit you down and say, "Hey, this is what you have to say. You support a woman's right to choose, you support immigration, you support, you know, a- a racist, uh, I- IDs are racist."

   16. EHEvan Hafer13:17

       Right, right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:18

       Like, there's like things you have to say.

   18. EHEvan Hafer13:19

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:19

       "You're with the vaccine, aren't you, Jimmy?" Like, "Yeah, I'm with the vaccine."

   20. EHEvan Hafer13:23

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       Like, you have to fucking... (laughs)

   22. EHEvan Hafer13:25

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       They don't necessarily sit you down and do that, but you, you fucking know.

   24. EHEvan Hafer13:29

       Yeah. Be-

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:29

       You fucking know.

   26. EHEvan Hafer13:30

       I, I mean, it's, um, unwitting or witting, essentially extortion to a certain degree because you're saying if you don't cooperate, you're gonna be on the streets.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:40

       And you're not gonna get picked for stuff.

   28. EHEvan Hafer13:42

       No.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:43

       Like, it, it's a wi- but it's a tyranny that like if s- if there's one person or one group that has the overwhelming part p- of dis- discerning who makes it or doesn't make it, they have the ability to choose who's The Rock.

   30. EHEvan Hafer13:59

       Yeah, yeah.
6. 19:33 – 24:37

   Prepping, gun culture, and fears of a surveillance state

   1. EHEvan Hafer19:33

      Yeah, I did, I didn't, I, I like it when, uh, when you discover people that are secret preppers. That they-

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:38

      (laughs)

   3. EHEvan Hafer19:38

      ... they keep it, they keep it way underneath their, their, their overt personality.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:43

      Right, right, right.

   5. EHEvan Hafer19:43

      And then you're like... I was shooting the show with some guy, uh, a couple of months ago, and he's like, "So, um, you do any prepping?" I was like, "Oh, yeah."

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:50

      (sputters)

   7. EHEvan Hafer19:50

      "I love it. It's awesome." It's like, you know, I don't play fantasy football, I, I like participate in these like, you know, preparation games or whatever, 'cause it's, it's just an interesting thought exercise to walk yourself through. And oh, by the way, if something happens, you also have kind of a, a group of contingencies that you can operate from. And he's like, "Okay." And it was like I passed the test, 'cause it was like, "Yeah, man, let's go." And then he started unpacking everything for me.

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:17

      (laughs)

   9. EHEvan Hafer20:17

      He's like, "Oh yeah, I got a shipping container buried under my property."

   10. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       Oh, wow.

   11. EHEvan Hafer20:21

       And I'm like, "Yeah, that's cool. So do I." Yeah. I like that. I like it when I see that stuff.

   12. JRJoe Rogan20:26

       Well, it is a good thing to know.

   13. EHEvan Hafer20:28

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan20:28

       You know, Mike Glover's great at that, which got him labeled a terrorist. (laughs)

   15. EHEvan Hafer20:33

       I think-

   16. JRJoe Rogan20:35

       He's-

   17. EHEvan Hafer20:35

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan20:35

       ... fucking explaining to people how to prepare in case-

   19. EHEvan Hafer20:38

       Dude.

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:38

       ... things go sideways, and they're like, "You are a problematic individual."

   21. EHEvan Hafer20:41

       Yeah, I, I don't know how that happ- well, I do know how that happens-

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:45

       How does it happen?

   23. EHEvan Hafer20:45

       ... because you have, w- well, I, I think you have a bunch of people within the, the federal government that, that have a political agenda, and/or they don't understand. They see any and everyone in the country that owns a firearm as some type of, you know, threat at some point. And they have to be, what I would say is, familiar with all aspects of America. They have to really understand like, hey, there's a group of people out there that prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That's what they do. And they're really into it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       Yeah.

   25. EHEvan Hafer21:21

       And just because they're going to the range with a group of friends, and they're preparing, doesn't make them domestic terrorists. It just makes them prepared.

   26. JRJoe Rogan21:29

       Prepared, yeah.

   27. EHEvan Hafer21:30

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan21:30

       And here's the thing that I think people should put in their heads. Does everybody remember ... uh, uh, let me, let me speak to people that live in Los Angeles, 'cause this is where it gets rare. Does everybody remember the lines outside the gun stores?

   29. EHEvan Hafer21:45

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:46

       Do you remember during the riots-
7. 24:37 – 26:57

   January 6 surveillance claims and civil-liberty anxiety

   1. EHEvan Hafer24:37

      Wait, did you, did you see where, um... This was last week or maybe the week before last. They were talking about how they had TSA, uh, air marshals following people that were in DC. Not even at the Capitol, but they were in DC during January 6th. So, they've just been following these people around the United States. Have you, have you seen this?

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:57

      What?

   3. EHEvan Hafer24:58

      Yeah, they were saying they don't have the resources over, uh, the Thanksgiving travel period to staff the security needs from the, uh, like airlines because they had people that were air marshals, I believe. I... And I'm scrolling through this. Following people that were just in DC. They weren't even, like, implemented in anything. It was wild, dude.

   4. JRJoe Rogan25:20

      What are they following for? What's the purpose?

   5. EHEvan Hafer25:22

      I don't know. I think... I mean, I think there's a level of intrusiveness in the government that is just... At some point, you, we have to say it's unacceptable. Like, I think-

   6. JRJoe Rogan25:33

      Yeah.

   7. EHEvan Hafer25:35

      ... that... I mean, obviously this is a long podcast. We don't need to, like, (laughs) take down the temperature just yet, but I think... Man, I, I don't quite understand why they want that level of surveillance activity around people that, quite literally, might have only been in DC during that time period.

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:52

      I think the amount of pressure that they're putting on people to let them know that if there's ever anything like this again-

   9. EHEvan Hafer26:03

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:04

       ... this is what's gonna happen.

   11. EHEvan Hafer26:05

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:05

       Everyone's going to jail.

   13. EHEvan Hafer26:07

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:07

       People that shouldn't go to jail are going to jail. If the cops let you in the door and they give you a tour, you're going to jail.

   15. EHEvan Hafer26:13

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:14

       Like, we're gonna call it a violent insurrection-

   17. EHEvan Hafer26:16

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:16

       ... and everyone's going to jail, and we're gonna let you in.

   19. EHEvan Hafer26:19

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:19

       We're gonna open up the barricades and we're gonna have federal agents in the audience encouraging you-

   21. EHEvan Hafer26:26

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:26

       ... to go into the House. And then when we're under oath, we're gonna say we can't answer whether or not federal agents were inciting people to go into the Capitol. So-

   23. EHEvan Hafer26:35

       Like, how, how-

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:36

       (laughs)

   25. EHEvan Hafer26:37

       ... how ethically inappropriate do you think everything about that is?

   26. JRJoe Rogan26:41

       It's so bad! (laughs)

   27. EHEvan Hafer26:42

       Like, dude, it's just so bad.

   28. JRJoe Rogan26:43

       It's so bad!

   29. EHEvan Hafer26:44

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       If this was happening from the right, if this was Trump-
8. 26:57 – 37:45

   Freedom requires responsibility—and why urban convenience can backfire

   1. EHEvan Hafer26:57

      It's wild. I think... I, I, I, I don't know, and I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, gonna fix it. But I think, you know, that the Bill of Rights is so important, and for people to understand what it means and clearly differentiate between, okay, this is states, this is federal, uh, you know, why are these things so important? Individual liberty comes with responsibility. Like-

   2. JRJoe Rogan27:20

      Yes.

   3. EHEvan Hafer27:20

      ... that's the other piece to this, is like, you and I love freedom. Like, to be fair, it, it's quite, quite literally my favorite thing. Like, if I can have more-

   4. JRJoe Rogan27:30

      It's pretty fucking awesome.

   5. EHEvan Hafer27:30

      ... it's awesome.

   6. JRJoe Rogan27:30

      Yeah.

   7. EHEvan Hafer27:31

      Like, you can never have too much, I don't think. Like-

   8. JRJoe Rogan27:34

      N- no.

   9. EHEvan Hafer27:34

      ... I don't think so.

   10. JRJoe Rogan27:34

       I don't think so.

   11. EHEvan Hafer27:36

       Because I'm gonna take accountability, I'm gonna be responsible for my actions, I'm not gonna, uh, mess with other people, I'm not gonna impede on their ability f- to pursue happiness, 'cause I'm responsible. But I think... You know, that's me, that's you. I think there's a whole other side of the country that are like, "Hey, I don't want any responsibility for this. It's just, it's too much for me."

   12. JRJoe Rogan27:58

       Yeah, I think what you're saying is so important because I think freedom without responsibility is what everyone's scared of.

   13. EHEvan Hafer28:07

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan28:08

       You know, when people talk about, uh, gun violence-

   15. EHEvan Hafer28:11

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan28:11

       ... or they talk about crime, or any... What, what you're talking about is freedom without responsibility. Even illegal immigration, it's freedom without responsibility.

   17. EHEvan Hafer28:19

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan28:21

       And accountability and responsibility and, like, having things that you have to do is what we need more of. That's what we need more of. You wanna have more freedom? We definitely should have more freedom. But we should also have more people that are taking care of their life, they have their shit together.

   19. EHEvan Hafer28:37

       Right.

   20. JRJoe Rogan28:37

       So, what we, we should be doing, instead of trying to take away freedom, try giving people the tools that they need to be more accountable and to do better in their life and to get their fucking shit together. Like, that should be the number one emphasis, not taking away your rights 'cause some people can't handle it.

   21. EHEvan Hafer28:58

       Right. But-

   22. JRJoe Rogan28:59

       You know, there's just...

   23. EHEvan Hafer29:00

       And, and, and that equals everything, right? So then, it's like y- y-... We'll say the, the highly motivated people that are gonna, that will live their life with virtue and courage and pursue all of, uh, what I would say is Western philosophic-

   24. JRJoe Rogan29:14

       Yeah.

   25. EHEvan Hafer29:14

       ... like, principles. I think we can, we collectively can be trusted with that responsibility. But then you have that other piece that's saying, "I don't wanna have anything to do with that. I'd rather have a safe, secure existence without any accountability or responsibility."

   26. JRJoe Rogan29:32

       Yeah.

   27. EHEvan Hafer29:32

       I 100% agree. That's why I... And this isn't, like... It's not meant to be, like, over complimentary. But I think that's so... This show and other people, like you and Jocko and Cam and Jordan, whomever else that is out, kind of out there in the ecosystem, you guys are, are putting really good information out into the world, saying, like... I was, I was, um... To reference your podcast with Lex that you did maybe, like, a year ago, he was asking you straight-up advice, like, "How do you, how do you make yourself better? How do you be a better person?" You're answering, saying, "Hey, this is what worked for me." Well, you're obviously successful. You should be propagating that out into the, into the country, into the world, having men and women, everybody saying, "Fuck yeah, I'm gonna take more accountability. I'm gonna be more responsible for my life. I'm gonna live radically free because that's fucking cool."

   28. JRJoe Rogan30:30

       That is...... what people who live in cities don't like. (laughs)

   29. EHEvan Hafer30:35

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan30:35

       Because if you're living in a city and you're in an apartment building, and you're an urbanist, you're taking yourself-
9. 37:45 – 45:39

   Purpose after service: existential transition and building Black Rifle Coffee

   1. EHEvan Hafer37:45

      I, I, I used to like, uh, have that conversation with the guys at the agency, because there, there are people that just... They weren't into the mission. They... To, to your point, it's like my purpose, my mission, and kind of the way that I've laid things out was I've always had to work for something bigger than just myself. Like, I can't just be really selfish. It doesn't even compute in my DNA. I have to look at something from a bigger purpose, look at the mission, the goals and objectives, be somewhat altruistic, and then just fucking dive in. Then you can be... Like, you can be selfless in some of what you're doing, and you can kind of behave as a cog in the wheel, which I think is actually a, uh, a really important piece to development is: How many people who've ever worked as just a number?

   2. JRJoe Rogan38:36

      Hmm.

   3. EHEvan Hafer38:36

      Like just a number in a machine, like just-

   4. JRJoe Rogan38:37

      Right, you don't feel valuable.

   5. EHEvan Hafer38:39

      No.

   6. JRJoe Rogan38:39

      Yeah.

   7. EHEvan Hafer38:39

      No, you don't. And creating value with a team with a bigger purpose, I think that's what guys in the military, and guys from my background, as they transition out, they go through what I would say is a, is an existential crisis, because their life has meaning. Their essence is clearly defined. They're, they're, they're striving to accomplish a big goal and objective that takes complete intellectual and physical capitulation.

   8. JRJoe Rogan39:11

      Hmm.

   9. EHEvan Hafer39:12

      And when they get out, they're like, "Now we have all this freedom, 360 degrees." Well, you have to lay your own life out. You have to redefine your purpose, and then drive in as deep as you can. I think they go through a significant existential crisis.

   10. JRJoe Rogan39:29

       Well, that happens to guys that get out of prison too.

   11. EHEvan Hafer39:31

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan39:32

       Guys that get out of prison, a lot of them want to get arrested and go back, 'cause they're more comfortable in jail.

   13. EHEvan Hafer39:36

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan39:37

       They don't like the freedom. They don't like this new life. All their friends are still locked up.

   15. EHEvan Hafer39:41

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan39:42

       Their social connections are locked up out in the street. They're a pariah. They're an ex-con.

   17. EHEvan Hafer39:47

       Ye-

   18. JRJoe Rogan39:47

       You know?

   19. EHEvan Hafer39:47

       And it... Some of those things are like transitioning into a, you know, the professional environment, especially from, from the team room. Like, I was in a team room my entire life. And, I mean, you know me, uh, you know, better than most, which is I'm not politically correct. I couldn't build an ecosystem, nor could I have a, I could have ever survived in a corporate environment, because my mind doesn't work like that. Like, I've, I have the diplomacy of a sledgehammer sometimes.

   20. JRJoe Rogan40:15

       (laughs)

   21. EHEvan Hafer40:15

       And it's not... (laughs) But it's-

   22. JRJoe Rogan40:16

       But at least there's a place for a mind like yours.

   23. EHEvan Hafer40:20

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan40:20

       The thing is, when you're a kid, they tell you there's not.

   25. EHEvan Hafer40:23

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan40:23

       When I was a kid, man, I was fucking absolutely convinced I was a loser.

   27. EHEvan Hafer40:28

       Really?

   28. JRJoe Rogan40:29

       Yeah, yeah. I fu-

   29. EHEvan Hafer40:30

       Seriously?

   30. JRJoe Rogan40:31

       I would fuck up in school, big fuck-up in school, you know? Always, uh, getting kicked out of classes for making fun of things.
10. 45:39 – 48:21

    Coffee nerding, product design, and hunting-camp rituals

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       ... and to apply your passion into a new direction. What's interesting, too, about Black Rifle... And by the way, thank you for the cup.

    2. EHEvan Hafer45:45

       Yeah, man.

    3. JRJoe Rogan45:46

       Evan brought me a mug. This is how thoughtful he is. It's white on the inside, so I can see how dark the coffee is.

    4. EHEvan Hafer45:51

       (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan45:51

       That's a real coffee nerd, folks.

    6. EHEvan Hafer45:54

       Yeah, it's, it's built perfectly from... A- and, uh, I won't, like... Everybody will gloss over and start, like, tuning out, but it's one to 16 ratio brew method from-

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       (laughs)

    8. EHEvan Hafer46:04

       ... 30 grams of coffee in and 480 grams yielded. But then, you can see it, uh, how dark is it, how light is it. You can kind of, um... I built it for the perfect mug, based on how many fingers can you get in, uh, through the handle.

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       Hmm.

    10. EHEvan Hafer46:19

        What's the weight of it? I also build things that, if you have to hit somebody in the fucking face with it... (laughs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:24

        (laughs)

    12. EHEvan Hafer46:24

        (laughs) They're not...

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:27

        It's got some heft.

    14. EHEvan Hafer46:28

        It's got some heft. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan46:29

        Yeah. These little bitches will break easy.

    16. EHEvan Hafer46:31

        Yeah, yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:32

        Yeah, this has got-

    18. EHEvan Hafer46:32

        And you, yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:33

        ... a lot more heft to it.

    20. EHEvan Hafer46:34

        It's got a heavy, heavy bottom in it, so there's-

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:36

        Yeah.

    22. EHEvan Hafer46:36

        ... a little bit of thought that went into that.

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:37

        You could fuck someone up with that.

    24. EHEvan Hafer46:38

        Hmm?

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:38

        Especially if you get your hand around it this way.

    26. EHEvan Hafer46:40

        Right. Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan46:40

        That's how I would do it.

    28. EHEvan Hafer46:41

        Right (laughs) .

    29. JRJoe Rogan46:42

        I wouldn't hold it on the handle. I'm not trusting this handle. I got my ha-

    30. EHEvan Hafer46:44

        No.
11. 48:21 – 52:56

    Elk hunting adrenaline, cougars, and archery gear rabbit holes

    1. EHEvan Hafer48:21

       I, I had so much fun this year, like, for, for, you know, the people listening, I guess. It's like, I got to watch you do, like, 30 stocks.... so I-

    2. JRJoe Rogan48:30

       Yeah. It's a lot of-

    3. EHEvan Hafer48:32

       And-

    4. JRJoe Rogan48:32

       There's a lot of stalking, and blown stalks, and missed shots, and missed opportunities, and you get winded, and ...

    5. EHEvan Hafer48:37

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan48:38

       Elk hunting is amazing, dude. It's, it's amazing.

    7. EHEvan Hafer48:42

       That ... That bull that you killed, um, a pair of 4s, like that thing was so cool to watch, 'cause I watched the entire thing. And I'll, I'll, I'll recite it from my position, because I couldn't really see you very well because you'd moved off, and I'm looking at him from across, um ... I was on one spur, you were on the other, and there's a little valley in between us, but we were probably, I don't know, 1,000 yards away. And I'm watching you through my binos, trying to figure out what you're doing, 'cause I could see the bull. And then, he got up, and I, I couldn't tell if you were winded or not, but then all I heard, like ... I saw him tear ass up the hill and then tumble down. He was dead in five seconds.

    8. JRJoe Rogan49:29

       Really quick, yeah.

    9. EHEvan Hafer49:30

       Like, eh, three and a half, five seconds at the most. And I heard it from across the canyon, you yelled so loud, (laughs) that we were-

    10. JRJoe Rogan49:39

        (snorts) Smoke.

    11. EHEvan Hafer49:39

        And we started laughing 'cause you're like, "Yeah."

    12. JRJoe Rogan49:43

        (laughs)

    13. EHEvan Hafer49:43

        And it echoed all the way down through the canyon, and I was like, "Well, bull down. Let's go."

    14. JRJoe Rogan49:46

        Yeah, I gave a Ric Flair.

    15. EHEvan Hafer49:48

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan49:48

        I gave a giant woo. Yeah, th- they are the fucking most interesting animal to me. I mean, I've deer hunted, I've bear hunted, I've hunted axis deer, I've hunted a lot of different animals, but elk, to me, are like the most majestic. They're the coolest looking.

    17. EHEvan Hafer50:05

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan50:05

        They're, they're fucking smart as shit when they smell you, their senses are so good. They're, they're always tuned in to what the fuck is going on, and the only time you catch them slipping is when they're hungry, they're tired, or they wanna fuck.

    19. EHEvan Hafer50:19

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan50:20

        And we caught him when he was tired. He decided-

    21. EHEvan Hafer50:22

        Snored.

    22. JRJoe Rogan50:22

        ... to take a nap, and I was like, "Okay, buddy."

    23. EHEvan Hafer50:25

        (laughs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan50:25

        "You just fucked up."

    25. EHEvan Hafer50:26

        (laughs) Yes.

    26. JRJoe Rogan50:26

        And then I creeped in with my socks on. I creeped in for a half an hour. I was moving so slow 'cause his head was kinda turned sideways.

    27. EHEvan Hafer50:36

        Right.

    28. JRJoe Rogan50:36

        And I could never tell if he was looking at me, so I had to make no movement. I was just inching towards that motherfucker. And every time he would turn away, I'd get a couple of slow steps and then I'd have to stop, and then I'd have to wonder, "I wonder if he remembers what he saw when he turned before and if that fucking tree is closer. I'm gonna wonder if he's gonna perk up." It's so exciting and your fucking heart's pounding. (imitates heartbeat thumping) And I'm breathing, I'm doing all these breathing exercises-

    29. EHEvan Hafer51:03

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan51:03

        ... to slow my heartrate down. Woof. So much fun, man.
12. 52:56 – 1:22:45

    Cats, toxoplasmosis, and the realities of dumb-but-beloved pets

    1. EHEvan Hafer52:56

       I mean, it's always a debate, like w- uh, my wife and I have gone back and forth on like, "Do we get a cat? Do we not get a cat?" And they're, they're, there's some ... They carry some parasite, I guess. It's like-

    2. JRJoe Rogan53:05

       Toxoplasmosis.

    3. EHEvan Hafer53:06

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan53:07

       They have.

    5. EHEvan Hafer53:07

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan53:07

       Mostly it's the l- wild cats get it, but ...

    7. EHEvan Hafer53:09

       Is that what it is?

    8. JRJoe Rogan53:10

       Yeah.

    9. EHEvan Hafer53:10

       It's from like wild ...

    10. JRJoe Rogan53:12

        It's from rats.

    11. EHEvan Hafer53:13

        Oh.

    12. JRJoe Rogan53:13

        This is what-

    13. EHEvan Hafer53:14

        Okay. Okay.

    14. JRJoe Rogan53:14

        It's a w- ... It's a, it is a wild parasite.

    15. EHEvan Hafer53:17

        Hmm.

    16. JRJoe Rogan53:17

        And there's a guy named Robert Sapolsky out of, uh ... Is he out of Stanford?

    17. NANarrator53:24

        I think so, yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan53:24

        Uh, I think he's out of Stanford. Uh, psychologist, brilliant guy. Um, he's done a lot of work on toxoplasmosis. And toxoplasmosis is the reason why they tell people not to touch women's, uh, d- women that are pregnant, not to touch their cat's litter box.

    19. EHEvan Hafer53:38

        Oh. Because the-

    20. JRJoe Rogan53:39

        Because it can really fuck the kid up.

    21. EHEvan Hafer53:40

        Huh.

    22. JRJoe Rogan53:41

        And it could really fuck you up too.

    23. EHEvan Hafer53:42

        Right.

    24. JRJoe Rogan53:43

        But what it does with people is wild. What it does to people is it makes them more reckless, and a disproportionate number of motorcycle victims have tested positive for toxoplasmosis. Um, some countries, at one point in time, France was as high as 50% of the population was infected by it.

    25. EHEvan Hafer54:00

        What?

    26. JRJoe Rogan54:00

        Yeah. It is a wild parasite that changes the way you think. And one of the things it does is it's ... Parasites are so fascinating because they literally can hijack another body and get it to do-

    27. EHEvan Hafer54:13

        Right.

    28. JRJoe Rogan54:13

        ... different things. So they get inside a rat. The rat gets infected with toxoplasmosis and it rewires the rat's sexual reward system. The rat now becomes sexually aroused by the smell of cat urine. It also completely removes any fear that the rat would have of cats. So the, the rat goes towards the cat, the cat kills the rat and eats the rat. The only way the parasite can reproduce is inside the cat's gut.... so the cat, which is seemingly unaffected by-

    29. EHEvan Hafer54:43

        Right.

    30. JRJoe Rogan54:43

        ... this parasite, is just making it inside of its body. And then when it gets out, it affects all the creatures around it. It probably does affect cats too, but cats are so crazy anyway-

Episode duration: 2:45:05