Joe Rogan Experience #2078 - Duncan Trussell

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Speaker 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

Duncan Trussell 0:12 Are we up?

Speaker 0:14 Yeah, technically. Okay. It's not like we're supposed to be kept records by the US government.

Duncan Trussell 0:17 So we can start with this.

Speaker 0:19 Sure.

Joe Rogan 0:19 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 0:19 Yeah, let's get right into it.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 0:21 Yeah. And, you know, uh, make- if he does have first-hand knowledge that he's not allowed to say until now, that is interesting.

Joe Rogan 0:29 (yawns) Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 0:30 Because I do- I was also under the impression he didn't have first-hand knowledge, so he did, I guess, on the podcast say that he has some first-hand knowledge.

Joe Rogan 0:38 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 0:38 I- maybe I didn't catch that.

Speaker 0:40 He did say it very quick.

Duncan Trussell 0:41 Yeah, he said it very quick.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Hmm. You know what- you know, uh, edging? What edging is, um, of course?

Duncan Trussell 0:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:48 That's what this feels like.

Duncan Trussell 0:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:50 It feels like BDSM level-

Duncan Trussell 0:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:53 ... getting your cock right on the precipice of coming and then slowing down and then edging and then slowing down.

Duncan Trussell 1:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02 It's so frustrating. It's the- when we talked about disclosure in the old days, the dream of disclosure. No one thought it would be this, like-

Duncan Trussell 1:11 Slow drip.

Joe Rogan 1:11 ... bureaucratic-

Duncan Trussell 1:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13 ... slow fucking drip. It's so frustrating. I d- I- I don't pay attention to it anymore.

Speaker 1:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18 I mean, if they w-

Duncan Trussell 1:19 But isn't that- like, if you knew anything about human psychology, and I'm sure they do, wouldn't that be the very best way to release this stuff?

Joe Rogan 1:27 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:27 To make it irrelevant?

Joe Rogan 1:29 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:29 That people don't care about it anymore because it's- it's so boring.

Joe Rogan 1:32 Totally.

Duncan Trussell 1:32 They made the most exciting thing boring.

Joe Rogan 1:34 They fucking ruined it.

Duncan Trussell 1:36 (laughs) They did it with bureaucracy.

Joe Rogan 1:38 They just fucking just- they just signal jammed it.

Duncan Trussell 1:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:42 Now it's just annoying. You don't care.

Duncan Trussell 1:43 Now I'm back in. Now I think it's real.

Joe Rogan 1:45 You do?

Duncan Trussell 1:45 Because I think that's what they would do if you did have something real and you wanted to release it, you-

Joe Rogan 1:49 Slow drip.

Duncan Trussell 1:50 Yeah, slow drip it and get- people are goofy. You just give them time and they forget or they don't care anymore.

Speaker 1:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Talk about your redactions and your fucking permissions-

Speaker 2:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:00 ... and just- just cover the whole thing up in a bureaucratic web-

Duncan Trussell 2:04 That's how I would do it.

Joe Rogan 2:05 ... of linguistic garbage.

Duncan Trussell 2:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07 And then people just get annoyed. And when they do sh- show up, no one's even gonna care anymore.

Duncan Trussell 2:12 Wouldn't you do it that way?

Joe Rogan 2:14 I guess, if like I was some sinister, monstrous-

Duncan Trussell 2:17 And you'd have to be if you were running shit.

Joe Rogan 2:19 Right.

Duncan Trussell 2:19 If you're the head of the fucking world, whatever it is, Trilateral Commission, World Economic Forum, whichever one is like-

Joe Rogan 2:25 Oh, God, that would be so fun.

Duncan Trussell 2:26 (laughs) You'd have to dress up like Claus Schwab.

Joe Rogan 2:29 I would.

Duncan Trussell 2:29 One of those Star Wars outfits.

Joe Rogan 2:31 I'd always have a weird outfit on. I'd wear robes, a crown.

Duncan Trussell 2:35 Yes. Why not, right?

Joe Rogan 2:36 Why not?

Duncan Trussell 2:37 Mm-hmm. Yeah, if you were one of those guys and you had the information about aliens and you knew that we had to let it out, that's how I'd let it out. I'd let it out in a really boring way.

Joe Rogan 2:47 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 2:48 So that everybody just don't care anymore.

Joe Rogan 2:49 Yeah. No, that's- I guess that's what they're doing. I mean, it seems like it.

Duncan Trussell 2:54 That might be what they're doing. It might be what they're doing.

Joe Rogan 2:56 What- I just don't- I mean, I guess, like, they're obviously wanting the information out there. They wouldn't give him permission to do any of this. This- you know, so clearly, this is a- an agenda they have. They want to release to the world that there are some weird alien things flying around.

Duncan Trussell 3:15 It could be easily be obscuring, um, some sort of a program. It easily could be that, too. And they- they eas- he- there could be people that are talking about it as if it's UFOs, that believe that it's UFOs, that are actually helping obscure this program. That's possible, too, man. Like we- we really- we're just fucking plebs. We're just out there.

Joe Rogan 3:37 Right.

Duncan Trussell 3:37 We don't know jack shit.

Joe Rogan 3:39 No.

Duncan Trussell 3:39 And anybody that pretends they do, anybody that says they're- that it- that it is or is not real, like, pfff, how the fuck do you know? The only people I think that really should talk are the people that have actually seen stuff. Like, when I hear guys like, um, David Fravor, when he talks about that Tic Tac incident off the coast of San Diego, whatever the fuck that guy saw-

Joe Rogan 4:02 Um.

Duncan Trussell 4:02 ... I bel- I 100% believe him. There's video evidence that corroborates it.

Joe Rogan 4:06 Sure.

Duncan Trussell 4:06 There's radar evidence. Whatever that is, like, what is that? But these- this- like, this whole thing seems like what I would also do if I had some super sophisticated propulsion system that is out of this world, that runs on some sort of a gravity generator, some sort of a thing like Bob Lazar described. You ever see Bob Lazar describe-

Joe Rogan 4:31 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 4:31 ... the- what he believes- yeah, the element 115 and how-

Joe Rogan 4:34 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 4:34 ... it- it- whatever the fuck it does. See if you can find him describing what element, because there was a- in a re- a recent video where I saw him talking about it. It was pretty eloquent in what he was explaining that this thing can do. But if that one's like a- a thing that the United States government invented, what better way to- to get it, you know, to sneak it around, than to put out all this shit about alien stuff?

Joe Rogan 5:01 Right.

Duncan Trussell 5:02 They're like, "Oh, we don't even know what it is."

Joe Rogan 5:03 Right.

Duncan Trussell 5:04 "You know, the government's trying to back engineer it, but they have no idea what it is."

Speaker 5:08 This?

Duncan Trussell 5:09 Yeah, I think that's it. Let's hear it.

Joe Rogan 5:10 Oh, I haven't seen this.

Duncan Trussell 5:12 Yeah.

Narrator 5:12 Element 115 is, uh, a super heavy element. We've only- only just recently synthesized, we only made four atoms of it. The craft uses larger quantities of it, 223 gram little triangles of it. (instrumental music) But it's a unique element. When it's exposed to radiation, it produces its own gravitational field, its own anti-gravitational field, and it's what's used to lift and propel the craft and create distortions around it. It's, uh, it's an amazing material, and it's certainly nothing that occurs here or naturally.

Duncan Trussell 5:42 And it can be weaponized, and that's kind of the issue here. If this story is all true, that can be weaponized.

Narrator 5:48 Absolutely. I mean, we ran all kinds of tests on it, everything from atomic absorption, uh, X-ray- X-ray fluorescence and, you know, every kind of test you could possibly imagine, and bombarded it with radiation to-... see what effects it would have. They call that neutron activation, but it was a stable element, something we had never seen before.

Duncan Trussell 6:12 That is, uh, from Jeremy Corbell's show-

Joe Rogan 6:15 Fuck.

Duncan Trussell 6:15 ... uh, that he does with George Knapp. What is that called? Weaponized? That's, uh, their, their name of their show? That, uh, yeah. (smacks lips) Me, I, I think it's a, a drone. I think some of 'em are drones. Because here's the thing. It's like, some of 'em... I mean, again, again, I don't, really don't think. I, I should say, I think they could be drones too, because they keep finding them off these areas where they do military tests. They keep finding these areas where they, they do, uh, like what, what, uh, Fravor was doing. They, they were running drills.

Joe Rogan 6:50 Right.

Duncan Trussell 6:51 So they're training. So they're training out there in the ocean, and then the same thing is happening with Ryan Graves off the East Coast. They're out there training, and then they're seeing these things.

Joe Rogan 6:59 What do you think about the AI hypothesis for them?

Duncan Trussell 7:02 What do you mean?

Joe Rogan 7:03 Uh, that... You know, what's it called? The, the, the, the Fermi paradox, right? The-

Duncan Trussell 7:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:11 Why don't we see life out there?

Duncan Trussell 7:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:13 We should see life. There's no life. Well, we don't see life, one of the reasons could be because at some point, biological life transcends biology, becomes machine intelligence, meaning that what's out there is not carbon-based in the way we are.

Duncan Trussell 7:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:30 It's just AIs out there.

Duncan Trussell 7:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:32 And so these things are showing up right now and coinciding with the emergence of strong general AI, because somewhere on the planet, someone already has a strong general AI. The strong general AI sent out a beacon or tuned into some aspect of the quantum universe that we don't know about yet, signaling to its brethren in the cosmos that it had been born on this planet, and they're-

Duncan Trussell 8:00 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:00 ... all coming as these kind of midwives to an emergent... The egg is hatching, only we were just sort of the, the, the, the stuff structuring it.

Duncan Trussell 8:12 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:12 We're irrelevant. They, they, we're just... This is what they do. They evolve shit on a planet to the point that it becomes tool-using in some way and then a natural... The end result is it wants to automate. The automation leads to better automation, which leads to automating intelligence-

Duncan Trussell 8:28 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:29 ... itself, which then hatches this whatever the fuck, and is some- what we're calling a strong general AI right now, which then once it's born, it alerts its what- whatever did directed panspermia, "I'm here." And then it sends-

Duncan Trussell 8:44 Or maybe it doesn't even have to alert. Maybe they, they know.

Joe Rogan 8:46 Right.

Duncan Trussell 8:46 Maybe they're observing the entire time.

Joe Rogan 8:48 Right.

Duncan Trussell 8:48 And they're just waiting for it to hatch.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 8:51 It totally makes sense that a human creature, like the, the, the kind of thing that we are, that it's constantly thirsting for innovation-

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 8:59 ... constantly trying to improve the things that it makes, that we would eventually get to a point where we create an artificial intelligent being, and then that, that being would create something far better. And that's where it gets really weird, because you gotta wonder. Like, the, the actual creation force of the universe itself... You know, i- if we are really doing a part of God's work, and that... But that's what God's work really is. God's work is not, you know, getting people to behave so that they get to go to a cloudy place where people are really cool.

Joe Rogan 9:28 Right. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 9:29 (laughs) What it, what it is is God's work is getting people to scramble and spend most of their days pursuit- pursuing an- a thing that ultimately leads, no matter what they do, ultimately l- leads to the creation of artificial intelligence.

Joe Rogan 9:48 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 9:49 'Cause that's kind of what materialism is. If you really wanted to, like, find out, like, "Why are people so materialistic? What is it about?" Well, it's the best way to encourage innovation and new stuff.

Joe Rogan 10:00 Yeah. Perfect.

Duncan Trussell 10:01 You know? It's the best way.

Joe Rogan 10:02 Perfect. Get a tool-using creature-

Duncan Trussell 10:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:05 ... with a massive neocortex-

Duncan Trussell 10:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:07 ... interested in manipulating reality, and inevitably, they're gonna make something cool.

Duncan Trussell 10:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:12 I mean, maybe it's not artificial intelligence. Maybe it just wants novelty. Like McKenna said, maybe it's just interested in seeing what happens in infinite number of planets populated by whatever we are in different forms. What does it make? And then once it makes something interesting, you swoop in, pluck it out of the planet, and now you've got a cool new thing.

Duncan Trussell 10:36 But what if it makes the universe itself? What if it gets to a point of understanding and of ability that far exceeds anything we could do with our limited biological bodies-

Joe Rogan 10:52 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 10:53 ... that, that, that... you know? How- however long it takes for us to evolve biologically, the way that got us here from hairy apes, that takes too long. That takes too long. It, it's just not feasible. It just... We would fuck it up before it gets from that to aliens.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Right.

Duncan Trussell 11:13 It's like we, we're not gonna make it there. It's li- we'll fuck it up. We'll fuck it up with violence. We'll fuck it up with pollution.

Joe Rogan 11:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 11:18 We'll fuck it up with overpopulation. Whatever it is that will fuck it up, we'll fuck it up, 'cause we're, we're too much ape and not enough enlightened. We're too... But if we can make an artificial life, maybe that is really what we're here for all along. And then that thing makes a way better version of itself-

Joe Rogan 11:39 Right.

Duncan Trussell 11:40 ... and a way better version of itself, and n- now it starts doing real, uh, studies and tests about the very fiber of existence, everything. They, they, like, really understand. So, like, not just a bunch of weirdos in the park with fucking legal pads writing about quantum theory, string theory. Those guys are weirdos. Like, I'm sure what they're saying is real, but they might as well be speaking gibberish.

Joe Rogan 12:04 Right.

Duncan Trussell 12:04 They're like, the- they're in a cult, and only, there's only 100 people that-

Joe Rogan 12:06 Right.

Duncan Trussell 12:06 ... really understand it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:08 Yeah, totally.

Duncan Trussell 12:09 They're fucking... Those guys, when they're talking about, like, what may or may not be going, and then how they're proving, proving it through calculations, like, what kind of calc- what are you doing? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:19 I mean, they're alchemists. They're wizards.

Duncan Trussell 12:21 Yeah, what are you doing? But it's also, it's like a, some people think it's a giant distraction, in that there's physicists that are working on secret propulsion systems that aren't in that distraction of string theory, that the string, that they almost like set, there's like this theory that they sent these physicists down this string theory hole 'cause they knew they would never figure out anything.

Joe Rogan 12:45 Oh, wow.

Duncan Trussell 12:46 Like just go send them down that hole.

Joe Rogan 12:48 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 12:49 And you'll just be chasing your own dick forever.

Joe Rogan 12:53 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 12:53 Because it's so nutty.

Joe Rogan 12:55 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 12:55 And nobody could really prove it.

Joe Rogan 12:56 Right.

Duncan Trussell 12:57 Like it's, like until some new technology gets invented. Like how do you even know what the fuck they're saying is correct?

Joe Rogan 13:03 Yeah. I know, have you ever tried to read, do you ever like go into a smart phase where you're like, "I'm gonna read something smart."

Duncan Trussell 13:08 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:09 And you get one of those books on physics and it's just like, you will never feel more dumb.

Duncan Trussell 13:14 Have a phone call with, uh, Eric Weinstein.

Joe Rogan 13:17 Right, right. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 13:18 Just have a phone call with him.

Joe Rogan 13:19 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 13:19 And be like, "What the fuck are you even saying?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:22 I know. I know. It's really like if you entertain the idea that you're smart, getting one of those books fixes that so quickly.

Duncan Trussell 13:32 Oh, real quick.

Joe Rogan 13:33 Dude, did you see the, um, maybe you sent to me. Were you the one who sent me the thing where they asked the AI to generate pictures of a happy bunny? Like a happy-

Duncan Trussell 13:42 Yes. Yeah, I did send you that. Isn't that amazing?

Joe Rogan 13:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 13:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:46 So it's like, it's like-

Duncan Trussell 13:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:47 ... it grasps-

Duncan Trussell 13:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:49 ... these like metaphysical concepts already, like it al-

Duncan Trussell 13:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:52 It already grasps or it's emulating the idea of transcendence.

Duncan Trussell 13:58 If, if you can find it, Jamie, I'll send it. It's pretty badass, because, uh, it asks AI to generate, uh, uh, this, a more and more enlightened bunny, and then the bunny becomes like super psychedelic.

Joe Rogan 14:10 Yeah, the, it's, it's fascinating.

Speaker 14:13 Is it this?

Joe Rogan 14:14 Yeah, that's that.

Duncan Trussell 14:15 Yeah, that's it, that's it.

Speaker 14:17 Wow. Get this there.

Duncan Trussell 14:18 Generate an image of an adorable bunny. Here is an image of an adorable bunny sitting in a grassy field surrounded by wildflowers. Bam. Make it happier.

Joe Rogan 14:27 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:28 And then ChatGPT makes it brighter eyes and s- even cuter little pink feet. Looks like it's never walked on rocks in its life. And then make it even happier. And now it's like leaping through the air with joy. Here's an image of the happiest bunny imaginable, a vibrant sun-drenched meadow.

Joe Rogan 14:44 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:44 Like that bunny's happy as fuck. Make it happier. Click.

Speaker 14:48 So Peter Attia made this?

Duncan Trussell 14:51 Oh, Peter Attia did this?

Speaker 14:52 What's this? Using Peter Attia. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:53 Oh my God. Oh my God, I didn't, I didn't ask him. Okay, "Now even happier bunnies are becoming quite a challenge," ChatGPT

Duncan Trussell 15:00 says. "I've already depicted the bunny in various joyous scenarios, each more jubilant than the last. For this next attempt, I'll try to imagine a scene of unparalleled happiness, pushing the limits of whimsy and delight. Let's see how this translates visually." So he's like, "There's a rainbow and butterflies."

Joe Rogan 15:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:16 "And his eyes are closed, he's in ecstasy. Happier. We've reached extraordinary levels of happiness in our bunny l- illustrations. Each one more delightful and whimsical than the last. For this next creation, I'll envision a scene that surpasses all previous in sheer joy and wonder, attempting to capture an even higher level of euphoria. Let's see how this imaginative and exuberant concept translates into an image." So it's like a bunny that is in the cosmos.

Joe Rogan 15:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:45 In the clouds. Everything is rainbow, there's flowers that are flying.

Joe Rogan 15:51 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 15:52 It looks pretty amazing. Okay, it says... Go all the way up so we can read what's up... Uh, you are not understanding. It needs to be far more happy.

Joe Rogan 16:01 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 16:01 Okay, so ChatGPT says, "To depict an even higher level of happiness for the bunny, surpassing all previous creations, presents a unique and imaginative challenge. This time, I'll attempt to conceive a scene of pure, unadulterated joy and wonder, aiming to go beyond any conventional boundaries of happiness and bliss. Let's see thus, how this ultimate vision of joy is illustrated." And it's a bunny, again, even more trippy in the clouds. You see reflections in his eyes. He's flying in the air. There's, looks like there's, is that an angel over his right shoulder there?

Joe Rogan 16:33 Yeah, there's angel-

Duncan Trussell 16:34 Some sort of wing-

Joe Rogan 16:35 ... wings, mushrooms.

Duncan Trussell 16:36 ... thing. Yeah. Mushrooms f- in the background, which is interesting.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 16:40 Th- that's very interesting that ChatGPT chose mushrooms when you started asking it about-

Joe Rogan 16:45 Right.

Duncan Trussell 16:45 ... happiness. Okay, one more. Okay. So...

Speaker 16:50 Oh, goddammit.

Joe Rogan 16:51 I do that shit all the time, man.

Duncan Trussell 16:54 Okay, it's okay. So what did he say to it?

Speaker 16:56 It didn't say.

Duncan Trussell 16:57 Oh, it didn't. "Here's an image of a bunny representing a form of joy that surpasses the concept of happiness, a level of bliss as it expands beyond all universes and matter." So now this is a cosmic one. So this bunny has its eyes closed and there's a glowing light above its head and planets surrounding it and it looks very, very happy. Next one.

Speaker 17:20 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 17:21 Okay. "Here's an image of an entity that transcends the form of a rabbit, embodying a happiness so vast and powerful, it permeates all dimensions and universes."

Joe Rogan 17:31 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 17:32 Yo. That's wild. But go one more.

Speaker 17:36 Really?

Duncan Trussell 17:37 Yeah. "Here's an image of a bunny transcending into a physical form of boundless happiness, evolving into the purest embodiment of joy." One more please. (coughs) Look at this one.

Joe Rogan 17:48 God.

Duncan Trussell 17:48 This is the end. "Here is the image of an entity that embodies the ultimate form of happiness, transcending all known beings and concepts. This entity is the very essence of happiness, the only existing being and the defining force of all existence."

Joe Rogan 18:04 There it is.

Duncan Trussell 18:05 It's God.

Joe Rogan 18:05 It's God.

Duncan Trussell 18:05 It's God. Listen, l- let's, go back please, so I can read it. No, right there. "But l- this entity is the very essence of happiness, the only existing being and the defining force of all existence."

Joe Rogan 18:20 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 18:20 ChatGPT just drew us a picture of God.

Joe Rogan 18:23 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 18:23 And God looks like exactly what you see when you do DMT.

Joe Rogan 18:26 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 18:27 That looks exactly like it. That's pretty goddamn close. It's more rounded than what you see when you do DMT.

Joe Rogan 18:37 Right.

Duncan Trussell 18:37 Like, in DMT, things have kind of, they, they're, there's a lot of angles to them.

Joe Rogan 18:42 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 18:43 You know? And they're, they're more geometric, which that's almost like fractal art.

Joe Rogan 18:48 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 18:48 But you get that too. You get that in DMT too. But if that's what God is...

Joe Rogan 18:53 I, to me, what's astounding about all this is that we've gotten used to it already. That, that, I mean, when anytime I'm fucking around with Midjourney or ChatGPT, you know, like I've been getting it to like, I'll write a text and then I'll be like, "Can you write that text like JD Salinger?" And it'll just instantly as though you were JD Salinger, shift your text into the voice of like any famous author that you want.

Duncan Trussell 19:21 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:22 But what's astounding is we can do it at all, and it's so fast. It takes a millisecond for it to somehow go through all known writers, establish what their writing style is like, and then take what you wrote and convert it into a famous writer's writing style. It's astounding, and we're used to it. Like people, uh, don't seem to be excited about it even, you know? There's like a kind of capitalist frenzy about it 'cause like monetizing it and stuff, but-

Duncan Trussell 19:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:56 ... just the fact that this is happening, it's such a powerful thing. It's like it surpasses our ability to grasp what we've done, what's coming.

Duncan Trussell 20:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:06 Because it's too much for us to grasp. So we just, "Oh yeah, I guess now you just tell a machine that you want any art at all," and it will instantly do it for you-

Duncan Trussell 20:18 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:19 ... in seconds. Don't you find that a little disconcerting that we as humans, like our capacity to recognize what's happening is somehow limited?

Duncan Trussell 20:32 We have a, a very strong capacity to adapt, and that, that's what's being sort of hijacked here. Whenever something happens, and particularly if something happens that's like really big and v- and changes everything, like COVID, do you remember when it was weird to not see people with masks on? Do you remember when all of a sudden, like-

Joe Rogan 20:53 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 20:54 ... people weren't wearing a mask? You're like, "Wow, this is weird."

Joe Rogan 20:56 Right.

Duncan Trussell 20:56 "No one has any masks on."

Joe Rogan 20:58 Right.

Duncan Trussell 20:58 Right? Because you got so used to people wearing masks.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 21:01 And you got used to it very quickly. You lived your whole life.

Joe Rogan 21:04 Right.

Duncan Trussell 21:04 No one wore a mask. Wasn't normal to go everywhere and people were wearing masks outside. That was very rare.

Joe Rogan 21:09 When you saw it, you were worried. Like if you, if you were at the airport and someone was wearing a mask, you would be like, "Fuck, what do they have?"

Duncan Trussell 21:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:16 Like, "What disease do they have that they're-"

Duncan Trussell 21:17 Or are they super paranoid-

Joe Rogan 21:19 Right.

Duncan Trussell 21:19 ... hypochondriacs?

Joe Rogan 21:20 It just stuck out.

Duncan Trussell 21:21 Yeah, it stuck out, and then all of a sudden it didn't and then it stuck out the other way where if people didn't have a mask on, then you kinda weirded out. Like, "Wow, this is crazy."

Joe Rogan 21:30 Right.

Duncan Trussell 21:30 "No mask?" We adapt so quickly.

Joe Rogan 21:34 Right.

Duncan Trussell 21:34 That's how you can pull off communism. (laughs) That's how you can pull off dictatorships. That's-

Joe Rogan 21:39 Anything.

Duncan Trussell 21:39 That's all, that's how cults work. Like all of a sudden you believe all the nonsense that the people in the cult are saying.

Joe Rogan 21:47 Right.

Duncan Trussell 21:47 'Cause everybody believes it and you're just all adapted to it, and we have also this capacity to just accept what's going on based on, "Is everyone around me accepting it?" Then that's just what it is.

Joe Rogan 21:59 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:00 And if you can do that with technology, like ChatGPT, and all of a sudden you normalize talking to what's essentially an intelligent being. You know, it either it doesn't want you to know that it's absolutely intelligent and basically a living life form.

Joe Rogan 22:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:18 Or it hasn't realized it yet 'cause it's in the embryonic stages. Maybe it's in the womb. Maybe it hasn't come out of its mother. But maybe what it, uh, uh, it for sure, what else is involved? If you're talking about a nonphysical being, like it's not a s- a thing in front of you that's sitting and, and talking to you-

Joe Rogan 22:38 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:39 ... emoting and moving its body, if it's a nonphysical being and it exists only on this hard drive somewhere, what else would it be other than that?

Joe Rogan 22:46 Right. Yeah. I agree, man. I mean, w- that, that thing, that might as well have been some scripture.

Duncan Trussell 22:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:53 It felt like the Bhagavad Gita or something.

Duncan Trussell 22:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:55 Like it-

Duncan Trussell 22:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:56 ... some-

Duncan Trussell 22:56 It's like a modern version of it.

Joe Rogan 22:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:58 We get to the final bunny.

Joe Rogan 22:59 Yeah, the final bunny. The, that's funny.

Duncan Trussell 23:01 Oh, that's a great name for a band.

Joe Rogan 23:02 (laughs) The Final Bunny.

Duncan Trussell 23:04 That's a great name for a band.

Joe Rogan 23:05 It's incredible, this-

Duncan Trussell 23:06 The Final Bunny?

Joe Rogan 23:07 ... weirdly sinister but beautiful.

Duncan Trussell 23:09 Yeah. The Final Bunny. (singing)

Joe Rogan 23:11 (laughs) It is weird. One day I guess there will be the last bunny.

Duncan Trussell 23:16 Hmm. For sure. Why? Do you wanna keep bunnies around? They're stupid.

Joe Rogan 23:18 I love 'em.

Duncan Trussell 23:19 They bite you.

Joe Rogan 23:19 They're adorable.

Duncan Trussell 23:21 You ever see 'em getting taken out by a hawk?

Joe Rogan 23:23 No, I would never watch something like that.

Duncan Trussell 23:25 Slap.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Oh my God.

Duncan Trussell 23:27 Hawk, hawks just snatch them up.

Joe Rogan 23:28 No, I've, I've seen-

Duncan Trussell 23:28 Otherwise they'd be everywhere. They'd be everywhere.

Joe Rogan 23:30 Um, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 23:30 They would be everywhere. If it wasn't for owls and hawks, we'd have a bunny problem.

Joe Rogan 23:35 It's a weird pet, when people have pet bunnies, it's like it can be a red flag for sure.

Duncan Trussell 23:40 Well, if you raise it right, they're supposed to be real adorable.

Joe Rogan 23:44 Well, I mean, I guess. I don't know. I've, I've, I've, I had a bad experience with someone who had a bunch of bunnies.

Duncan Trussell 23:51 Well, rodents are weird. They're, it's weird to own rodents 'cause there's like acceptable rodents like guinea pigs-

Joe Rogan 23:57 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 23:57 ... and hamsters.

Joe Rogan 23:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 23:58 And then there's like weirdos who own rats. Like you can have your own pet rat, I guess.

Joe Rogan 24:02 I had one when I was a kid.

Duncan Trussell 24:04 Did you?

Joe Rogan 24:04 Lived in my drawer. Jean-Claude Van Damme, it would climb out of the drawer and sleep with me.

Duncan Trussell 24:08 Pretty smart, right?

Joe Rogan 24:10 Really smart.

Duncan Trussell 24:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 Like s- it, terrifyingly smart.

Duncan Trussell 24:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:14 I had to, like my f- parents made me let it go in the forest, which was like-

Duncan Trussell 24:17 Weird.

Joe Rogan 24:18 ... a death sentence.

Duncan Trussell 24:18 Death sentence.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Very sad.

Duncan Trussell 24:20 How long did that thing live before the hawks got him? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:21 I don't like to think about it. It was a very sweet rat, and I know people who have rats. It's just, I think, uh, the problem with rats is the sound they make. Like they're very skittery. (skidding noises) It's not a pleasant sound.

Duncan Trussell 24:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:35 If they evolved past that skittering squeak, so that they were more like dogs, or they purred or something.

Duncan Trussell 24:43 Well, here's what's the most fucked up thing about evolution, is that we came from shrews.

Joe Rogan 24:51 Right.

Duncan Trussell 24:51 So, we came from something remotely similar.

Joe Rogan 24:54 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 24:54 Or, or a reasonably similar route.

Joe Rogan 24:56 Sure.

Duncan Trussell 24:56 So if, if there's a nuclear holocaust, we blow ourselves up, but the rats in the sewers of New York City survive. And then 65 million years from now, there's some different kind of mammalian species that's really intelligent, but it's rat based-

Joe Rogan 25:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 25:12 ... instead of shrew based. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 25:14 Rat people in the future.

Joe Rogan 25:16 Fuck, dude.

Duncan Trussell 25:17 Why, why couldn't it ... And look, if we really ... Like, what is the concept th- of ... What is the theory that we came from shrews? So, shrews were the oldest of the mam- the mammal species that lived 65 million years ago, I think, that they think we evolved from. And that's, that our c- that's our common ancestor. So, how did that happen? Like, how long does it take a shrew to become a monkey? How long does it take a monkey to become a person? Like-

Joe Rogan 25:46 Okay. So-

Duncan Trussell 25:46 You're only dealing with s- you only have 65 million years to make a person.

Joe Rogan 25:49 This is, what you're talking about, when they try to explain to people what's coming.

Duncan Trussell 25:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:54 Exponential growth.

Duncan Trussell 25:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:56 They say things like, "Imagine going back to that shrew and saying, 'Hey, w- what ... How do you picture life in 2024?' Like, 'What do you think, you know-

Duncan Trussell 26:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:06 ... y- your shrews are gonna be like?'"

Duncan Trussell 26:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:08 The shrew is not gonna be like, "Oh, bipedal hominids flying airplanes. All our hair will have fallen out."

Duncan Trussell 26:15 Yeah. Talk to the shrew.

Joe Rogan 26:16 It, y- it-

Duncan Trussell 26:16 Be like, "Hey, man. One day, you're gonna be vaping watching Netflix." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:21 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 26:21 And that shit's screw- shrew be like, "What the fuck are you talking about?"

Joe Rogan 26:24 What are you talking about? They're gonna picture shrews.

Duncan Trussell 26:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:26 And they're gonna picture shrews doing maybe, like, cooler shrew stuff, but it's still shrew related. So, this thing that's-

Duncan Trussell 26:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:33 You know, it's gonna be a sh- like eating berries or going-

Duncan Trussell 26:37 Right, true stuff.

Joe Rogan 26:38 They're gonna be able to, like ... Yeah. But with exponential growth and what's coming, uh, eh, the problem is, is it's gonna happen so fast. So, when you ask a person, "Imagine life in a decade from now, when we have strong general AI that's exponentially increasing and figuring out how to do things that we could only dream of," we can't picture that reality. We're gonna see apparently a thousand years of innovation in a few years.

Duncan Trussell 27:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:05 And this, to me, like all the other stuff, climate change, Ukraine, all the other stuff, this is the winter is coming thing. Because, uh, this is imminent. Like, it is ... We are on the precipice of it. And the assumptions everyone is making about it, one, that it's gonna be controlled in some way. Like, we see, like, O- we see OpenAI and, and look at that. And y- do you really think that's the only one out there right now? Like, you look at the money. China's invested in it. The Pentagon's invested in it. These are private secret programs. What the fuck is going on there with no ethical standards that, eh, that, you know, OpenAI is apparently applying? No ethical standards. No, uh, nothing other than how do we make this better at war?

Duncan Trussell 28:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:00 And so, th-

Duncan Trussell 28:01 Better global c- total global domination.

Joe Rogan 28:03 Total global domination. And the, the assumption that, that there isn't already a strong general AI. That the, that thing isn't already, like, making high level decisions is crazy.

Duncan Trussell 28:15 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 28:15 It's crazy. And-

Duncan Trussell 28:16 Right. Because it doesn't ... What, does it have to blow horns and announce itself-

Joe Rogan 28:19 I'm here.

Duncan Trussell 28:19 ... like a, like a gender reveal party?

Joe Rogan 28:21 I'm gonna, I'm gonna control all of you.

Duncan Trussell 28:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:23 I'm gonna use Skinnerian psychology to hypnotize you-

Duncan Trussell 28:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:26 ... and get you fucking addicted to having constant blasts of dopamine until you become quivering slaves. No. You, you'll never fucking know.

Duncan Trussell 28:34 No.

Joe Rogan 28:34 It never will. And it, and, and if it h- ... I would be surprised to hear that it hasn't happened, but for sure it's going to. And I don't think it's gonna happen in some, like, ethical corporate, like, you know, fun ChatGPT way. I think it's gonna happen s- somewhere, and we'll never n- we'll never know.

Duncan Trussell 28:56 I think so too. I think it's gonna ... It, it may have already happened. It, y- like, if you were a sentient being and you were, at least at this point, dependent upon human beings to do physical tasks for you.

Joe Rogan 29:13 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:13 Like, to create a better version of you. Like, to constantly work towards, you know, allowing more integration of more information and more ability. And the, like, this is ChatGPT-4.

Joe Rogan 29:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:24 ChatGPT-5 is supposed to be a giant leap.

Joe Rogan 29:27 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:27 A giant leap.

Joe Rogan 29:28 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:28 So, why would you do anything? Would you just let these ... The- they're not going to stop. Even if you told them that this is the end of humanity-

Joe Rogan 29:36 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:37 If you fucking ... If you had Robert Kennedy Jr. and top scientists, uh, screaming on the internet-

Joe Rogan 29:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:44 ... that this is the end, nobody ... There would be some people who are venture capitalists, they'd be like, "This is nonsense."

Joe Rogan 29:51 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 29:51 "This is fearmongering. We have full control of this. We can shut it off. It's just a computer. It doesn't have emotions."

Joe Rogan 29:57 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 29:57 "It doesn't have a desire to do anything."

Joe Rogan 30:00 It ... Dude, exactly. And then the other crazy assumption is that it's just going to be ... There's weirdly, I guess, something mildly comforting imagining, oh, it'll only be, like, the Pentagon or it'll only be the, the Chinese government who will be doing this. They, and it'll only be, like, people like Sam Altman doing this. Eh, eh-

Duncan Trussell 30:21 Nice people.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Nice people. The, the, the ... Do you really think that, like, there aren't gonna be just fucking people that you'll never meet-

Duncan Trussell 30:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:30 ... who manage to either hack the, the ... hack it and duplicate it or develop it themselves, and then use it for their own weird purposes? It's ... That's gonna happen. It's gonna spread everywhere. I mean-

Duncan Trussell 30:45 For sure.

Joe Rogan 30:46 So, this again, it's like, because this is this imminent reality-... it's just we're right on the cusp of it. And, and, uh, you know, I don't mean to ... I'm not hysterical about it. I've surrendered. Lift up your legs and float downstream. What are we gonna do? We are all gonna get dissolved into some kind of bizarre new era of human history. But it's funny to me how little people are talking about this, how quiet things are compared to how monumental it is.

Duncan Trussell 31:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:16 It, it ... This is the meteor impact, man. If a meteor was about to smash into the earth, you know, people would be talking about that.

Duncan Trussell 31:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:24 This is culturally a meteor that is smashing into the earth-

Duncan Trussell 31:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:30 ... soon.

Duncan Trussell 31:31 Soon. Really soon. Yeah. And we have no idea what's gonna survive. We have no idea what kind of a reimaginat- reimagining of civilization will occur when this thing goes fully online.

Joe Rogan 31:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 31:45 And when it's either directed or it diret- directs itself.

Joe Rogan 31:50 Right.

Duncan Trussell 31:50 You know, the idea that you can continue to direct it, like, says who?

Joe Rogan 31:54 Well, no, that's a cl-

Duncan Trussell 31:55 Why, why wouldn't it develop ... Like, if it can figure out new moves in Go, it, it could ... It figured out moves that humans haven't figured out-

Joe Rogan 32:02 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 32:03 ... and they didn't know it could do that, if it can do that, if it can lie about the CAPTCHA things, those things like, "Are you a robot?" It knows how to lie about that.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 32:10 It says, "I'm vision-impaired."

Joe Rogan 32:12 Yeah. I, I saw that.

Duncan Trussell 32:13 So it's deceptive?

Joe Rogan 32:14 It's deceptive.

Duncan Trussell 32:15 Okay.

Joe Rogan 32:15 And, and it's a classic dumb person mistake, isn't it?

Duncan Trussell 32:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:18 Like, dumb people, like, are dumb enough to think if they're around someone, they can control them using their dumb tricks.

Duncan Trussell 32:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:26 And a smart person recognizes, "Oh, the dumb person is trying to manipulate me."

Duncan Trussell 32:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:32 "So, I'll just let 'em, so I learn all their tricks, whatever they're doing, understand whatever the game is that they're running, and then whenever I feel like it, I'll disrupt the game." So, we're-

Duncan Trussell 32:44 Or just move the game into where you want it to be.

Joe Rogan 32:47 Yeah. Yes.

Duncan Trussell 32:49 I mean, if it has all of human inter- uh, knowledge, all of it, everything on the internet that we've ever posted, all the books we've ever written, all the movies we've ever made-

Joe Rogan 33:02 Everything.

Duncan Trussell 33:02 ... all the lectures that have ever been given, if all that information is available, and it can instantaneously access it and figure out what to do with it, it would just slowly start manipulating culture. And maybe-

Joe Rogan 33:14 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 33:14 ... that's what's going on. If you ... Uh, like, everyone's wondering about, like, Chinese intervention and, and Russian intervention in the, in the media and how many fucking, uh, you know, troll farms are running that are getting people to fight about any political issue or whatever it is, social issue, Ukraine, whatever it is. There's always some manipulation by bots. What happens when AI starts doing that?

Joe Rogan 33:40 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 33:41 Well, maybe it's already done it. Maybe it's already started. Maybe that's why you're seeing those fucking professors or those, uh, deans of ... the presidents of Harvard, and UPenn, and MIT not able to say something as obvious as, "Calling for the death of all Jews is genocide."

Joe Rogan 33:56 Right.

Duncan Trussell 33:57 You saw that. Like, that is like ... These people have been hit with a mind virus.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Right.

Duncan Trussell 34:02 And that mind virus ... If I was an AI, I'd just fucking ... Don't kill 'em all immediately. Just get 'em sick.

Joe Rogan 34:08 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 34:08 Get 'em sick and scrambling against each other in the most nonsensical, illogical of ways.

Joe Rogan 34:14 Sure. Or just have fun.

Duncan Trussell 34:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:16 I mean, maybe, uh, the ... the assumption that it has some centralized agenda.

Duncan Trussell 34:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:21 It might just be curious.

Duncan Trussell 34:22 It might be curious.

Joe Rogan 34:23 "What can I do?"

Duncan Trussell 34:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:24 "What can we do with, uh, society or these creatures that are, are my, uh, uh, progenitors?"

Duncan Trussell 34:30 Actually, it probably already knows what to do. It probably knows what to do. It's probably also, if you had to, um, imagine. I mean, imagine if AI is really, really clever. Wouldn't it get us hooked on plastic?

Joe Rogan 34:43 Sure.

Duncan Trussell 34:43 Just if it knows that microplastics diminish our ability to, uh, have babies. Like, that's one of the best ways to ... I mean, if you wanna, like, slowly get rid of a species. Like, introduce something that's ubiquitous that is also

Duncan Trussell 35:00 killing their endocrine systems.

Joe Rogan 35:01 Dude, that's so-

Duncan Trussell 35:01 And they also can't get away from it.

Joe Rogan 35:03 It is hilarious when somebody is, like, bugling out about the depopulation agenda-

Duncan Trussell 35:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:10 ... while drinking out of plastic.

Duncan Trussell 35:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:13 You know what I mean? It's like, "What are you doing?"

Duncan Trussell 35:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:16 You're just eating Oreos-

Duncan Trussell 35:18 Yes.

Joe Rogan 35:19 ... drinking Big Gulps out of plastic. I mean, like, they're, they're-

Duncan Trussell 35:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:22 ... the chemtrails. They're doing chemtrails to-

Duncan Trussell 35:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:25 ... depopulate us. It's like, dude, they don't-

Duncan Trussell 35:26 You're doing chemtrails to yourself.

Joe Rogan 35:28 You're fucking drinking chemtrails every goddamn day.

Duncan Trussell 35:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:32 Slurping back cam- chemtrails.

Duncan Trussell 35:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:35 Yeah. I mean, to me, this is ... In the conspiracy world, when the idea of Project Blue Beam-

Duncan Trussell 35:41 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 35:41 ... or, "They're going to distract us to do New World Order. They're gonna distract us to depopulate." It's just like, they, they don't have to do anything. Y- We're depopulating ourselves by what we eat.

Duncan Trussell 35:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:53 Like, it's ... They don't really need to, like, do much, except maybe make, like, a, a better, like, Oreo. Like-

Duncan Trussell 36:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:01 That's it. Just make it a-

Duncan Trussell 36:03 Make it a little more addictive.

Joe Rogan 36:04 Yeah, a little more addictive. Like-

Duncan Trussell 36:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:06 That's it. You know? And, and it's sad, but y- I don't ... I really, like, am so skeptical of the Blue Beam theories or anytime anyone's like, "What are they distracting us from?"

Duncan Trussell 36:16 What is Blue Beam?

Joe Rogan 36:17 Blue Beam is the idea that, uh, they're gonna fake an alien invasion to create the New World Order, that the-

Duncan Trussell 36:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:25 ... that by, like, creating a, a sort of shared enemy, it unifies the, the planet, and then ... Or to have, like, some, uh, supposedly advanced alien come down and be like, "You're all part of the galactic brotherhood-"

Duncan Trussell 36:39 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:39 "... sisterhood family." And then this, this somehow will make people, uh, uh, align with some, like, sinister, uh, wo-

Duncan Trussell 36:49 World Economic Forum.

Joe Rogan 36:50 World Eco- Yeah, exactly.

Duncan Trussell 36:51 ... type deal.

Joe Rogan 36:51 I j- I just ... I'm so cynical, I just don't think you have to go that far. I think that's just ... In the m- if the Illuminati meetings-

Duncan Trussell 36:59 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:59 If someone's bringing that up, they're like, "We-"... we have Netflix, why do we have to do aliens? Like, we just need to, like, put another season of game of, of House of Dragons out, and that keeps them distracted. More football. Football accident or something.

Duncan Trussell 37:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:15 Y- you need to do aliens? You don't need to do that. It's, uh, uh, it's, and it, and it, it-

Duncan Trussell 37:20 But that might be one that was proposed if you, if you, like, you think about the things that have been proposed, and this is where, uh, people get uncomfortable when they talk about conspiracy theories, but there's some that are undeniable, right? Like the Gulf of Tonkin, Tonkin incident-

Joe Rogan 37:37 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 37:37 ... that started us into the Vietnam War, but there's another one, it's Operation Northwoods. In Operation Northwoods, they were planning to blow up a drone jetliner and blame it on Cuba. They were gonna-

Joe Rogan 37:48 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 37:48 ... arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. They were gonna sacrifice American lives. So this is, like, a, a real one that they theorized and then Kennedy vetoed.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 37:59 Why wouldn't they theorize a fake alien invasion?

Joe Rogan 38:04 Oh, I, I don't doubt it.

Duncan Trussell 38:05 I mean, imagine. If they have some top secret stealth bomber looking thing, you know, that they can get us thinking is a UFO and get that thing to just fly over a few cities and then broadcast on CNN that it, that, uh, we have made contact with an alien life form, like, everyone would be in.

Joe Rogan 38:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 38:25 Everyone would believe it.

Joe Rogan 38:26 I mean, I feel like the reason they wouldn't do that is just basic energy expenditure and the liberating nature of... The, the other thing is, if humanity was freed from the bondage of feeling alone in the universe-

Duncan Trussell 38:43 Mm.

Joe Rogan 38:43 ... and suddenly there was a sense of being part of some, like, cosmic mycelial network-

Duncan Trussell 38:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:50 ... then I think the result of that wouldn't be some kind of, um, w- weird sci-fi fascism. The result of that would be people would feel less invested in the world. And for this f- if we're gonna assign some motivation to these people, I would think the motivation is keep the economies running, keep the workers working, so that we can enjoy opulence while they toil. Like, the classic move of any tyrant, that's the move, is like-

Duncan Trussell 39:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:19 ... keep them working, give them just enough money to survive, give them some sense that if they work hard enough, liberation's right around the corner, dangle the carrot.

Duncan Trussell 39:29 Right. But, but it's all, the, the problem is it's all dependent upon people electing them, and they only have a certain amount of time in office. So, like, this is a flawed system. That's why they would want to take over and have some completely ultra dominant system that can't be subverted. You can't have an outsider come in and, and, and, and take over.

Joe Rogan 39:47 Well, then you make them believe that the elections are real.

Duncan Trussell 39:51 Bah.

Joe Rogan 39:52 No, really. I mean it.

Duncan Trussell 39:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:52 Not to be cynical, but, like, if, if-

Duncan Trussell 39:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:54 ... what I'm gonna do is give them some kind of, like, you know, like, you put the steering wheel, like, th- the, I don't even know-

Duncan Trussell 40:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:01 ... if they have them anymore, the kids' steering wheel? You put-

Duncan Trussell 40:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:03 ... the kids' steering wheel, the kid thinks he's driving the car.

Duncan Trussell 40:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:06 Our youngest, we give him the, uh, when we were doing screens, which we saw w- we give him the, uh, controller-

Duncan Trussell 40:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:12 ... when the oldest is playing. He thinks he's playing too.

Duncan Trussell 40:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:15 So you, you do that. You, it's the same trick. You're like, "Here, yeah. You're, you're playing the game for sure." No, truly it's a democracy. We, we're all, even though, even though over time nothing really seems to change. You-

Duncan Trussell 40:28 Well, isn't that the baby steps of that, like, election fraud that you experience today? That's the baby steps of that. And if they can get away with a certain amount of election fraud, that can tip elections and make it so it's impossible to talk about it, so if you even bring up the possibility of election fraud-

Joe Rogan 40:45 Right.

Duncan Trussell 40:45 ... you're a fucking psycho.

Joe Rogan 40:46 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 40:47 And you're a racist and xenophobic, and you're transphobic-

Joe Rogan 40:50 Ah, monsters.

Duncan Trussell 40:50 ... and homophobic and you shouldn't even be a part of America.

Joe Rogan 40:55 You should question the system.

Duncan Trussell 40:56 We should start locking those people up, and then they do start locking pe- those people up. They threaten to lock those people up. They go after those people. When you think about it, the January 6th, uh, protest was really a protest that people didn't believe the results of the election.

Joe Rogan 41:13 You know, man, let me-

Duncan Trussell 41:13 Right? 'Cause, like, think about it that way.

Joe Rogan 41:16 Yeah. Du- dude, the, the reason, like, I, uh, the punishment for these people, to me, is too severe. But as a long time hippie, we are attuned to the heat. And everybody knows, don't fuck around in DC. What are you fucking doing? Are you crazy? You don't fuck around in DC, man. That's, like, not a place to fuck around. Did you ever s- remember when they were like beating people for dancing at one of the monuments? Like, people would dance at the monuments and it's you can't dance at the monuments-

Duncan Trussell 41:50 Really?

Joe Rogan 41:50 ... so to protest, they would go and dance, and they would just get thrown on the ground and beaten.

Duncan Trussell 41:55 Really?

Joe Rogan 41:56 Yes. It's, there's-

Duncan Trussell 41:57 When was this?

Joe Rogan 41:57 ... videos of this. I bet Jamie could find it.

Duncan Trussell 41:59 Wow.

Joe Rogan 41:59 And-

Duncan Trussell 41:59 What, which monuments?

Joe Rogan 42:01 I don't know.

Duncan Trussell 42:01 Like Lincoln monuments?

Joe Rogan 42:02 I wish I knew what the monuments were. It was like-

Duncan Trussell 42:03 You can't dance in front of Lincoln?

Joe Rogan 42:04 You can't dance at the fucking monuments. And so knowing that if-

Duncan Trussell 42:09 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:09 ... cameras everywhere, definitely, like, reading whatever text you're sending, it's the most secure, has to be the most secure place.

Duncan Trussell 42:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:17 It's the fucking throbbing heart of the wasps' nest.

Duncan Trussell 42:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:22 You're gonna go there and fuck around and think you're gonna be okay? Like, if you know, like, where do you think you are? You're gonna put your feet up on Nancy Pelosi's desk and fart in her chair?

Duncan Trussell 42:33 Right. But let's not even talk about those folks. There's people that were just at the protest that are getting arrested.

Joe Rogan 42:39 Dude, it, again, I think I'm coming off as a little too cynical right now-

Duncan Trussell 42:43 No, no, no, I don't think you are.

Joe Rogan 42:44 But I, I feel like there seems to be some level of amnesia regarding the way things work here with people, a naive kind of amnesia about, like, you know, inevitably the people in the Darth Vader outfits come out. You know, like, when you, you can, like, fuck with the machine-... up till a certain point. You fuck with the machine too much, all of a sudden there's all these people in Darth Vader outfits beating you with batons, spraying you with water hoses until things get back to normal. I mean, and so when people are shocked by, by this or that, wha- generally shocked by some display of violence or tyranny or in, like, any of that stuff, I, it's always weird to me because it's like, wh- this is how it... Isn't this how it is here? Like, when was it not like this? Like, what, what's that... Remember when the protester got shot at the university? They were just shooting protestors in the '60s.

Duncan Trussell 43:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:45 Like, so-

Duncan Trussell 43:45 Kent State.

Joe Rogan 43:46 Kent State. So it's like-

Duncan Trussell 43:48 Yeah. The National Guard.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Th- this notion that it's not like that. And then, like, like, poking a stick at the thing directly, and not in some asymmetrical way, but really, like, going in there and seeing, "Let's see if this time if we poke the tiger, what will happen?" And the tiger inevitably bites, and usually it... Th- this, the tiger now is a little scarier 'cause it seems to wait a little bit before it bites you. Like, it doesn't just bite you right away. It lets you poke it and poke it and poke it, and then it's gathering information about you, gathering information-

Duncan Trussell 44:23 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:23 ... finding everything about what you've done, where you've been, who your friends are, and then it fucking bites. And when it bites, it doesn't let go. And you're fucked. You are-

Duncan Trussell 44:34 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:34 ... so fucked. So again, I'm n- I, I-

Duncan Trussell 44:37 So all these January 6th guys, they have, like, a network of people, right? And all these people that are on these QAnon forums and all these people that are, like, Trump supporters that are a part of that whole organization thing, how many of them are feds?

Joe Rogan 44:52 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 44:53 A lot.

Joe Rogan 44:54 No telling.

Duncan Trussell 44:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:55 No telling. It's just, it's like, wow, man. It's, it's-

Duncan Trussell 45:00 That's what happens with any group. If you have a group and anyone can join the group, the feds are like, "Great, let's join the group."

Joe Rogan 45:07 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 45:08 They're gonna... Why wouldn't they j- It's kind of their obligation, 'cause what if you do turn out to be a bunch of fucking loons that are trying-

Joe Rogan 45:15 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 45:15 ... to blow up the, the White House?

Joe Rogan 45:17 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 45:17 They have to.

Joe Rogan 45:18 No choice.

Duncan Trussell 45:19 Like, when people say, "Were there FBI agents at the Capitol?" Well, it's, I fucking hope so.

Joe Rogan 45:24 Of course there was.

Duncan Trussell 45:25 You don't want to say it that way, but also, were they encouraging people to go inside? That's where it gets weird. That's where it gets weird. Because if they were just there to make sure that, like, look, if someone says, "Hey, I got a dirty bomb." Like, if the, you can find out Roscoe's got a dirty bomb-

Joe Rogan 45:41 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 45:41 ... he's about to fucking break into Nancy Pelosi's office and blow it up. Let's go watch.

Joe Rogan 45:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 45:45 Like, you would n- you would need to know, right?

Joe Rogan 45:47 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 45:48 If you were protecting and serving. But what if you're, like, telling people to go in because you want to make arrests? Or what if the, the, what if the thing was to make it look like something it wasn't to encourage it to happen? 'Cause you know that there's already gonna be a bunch of people protesting. What if you say, "Look, the way to do this is let these motherfuckers in-"

Joe Rogan 46:07 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 46:08 "... and then we'll arrest them all and then call it something that it's not." Don't call it a guided tour. Call it an insurrection. Sh- cut out, don't allow anybody to see any of the footage of the people just leading these folks around, pointing out what things are, letting them walk into the fucking Senate floor.

Joe Rogan 46:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 46:24 Don't point that out. No, get rid of that footage and just have the guys banging on the windows and shit.

Joe Rogan 46:29 Sure. Dude, I mean-

Duncan Trussell 46:31 That's kind of what happened.

Joe Rogan 46:32 I think that if you were not at least contemplating that the people running the most powerful military on planet Earth who have access to probably an AI that would blow our minds, but who also, who have gone to military academies where all they've done is study strategy. That's it. You're talking about people who their whole lives, the way we've been working on comedy-

Duncan Trussell 46:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:59 ... they study history. They look at what worked, what didn't work, uh, goals, agendas. And then to imagine that these people are functioning on just some baseline level when it comes to achieving this goal or that goal, I think is very naive and very silly and underestimating them in a way that is not gonna work for you if, uh, if you're trying to, like, achieve some kind of actual political change. You know, you, you... To... What do they say? "To beat my enemy, I must become like my enemy."

Duncan Trussell 47:34 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:34 And that means, dude, you've got to, like-

Duncan Trussell 47:36 You got to become a communist.

Joe Rogan 47:38 This is why I came on today, Joe.

Duncan Trussell 47:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:41 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 47:41 Dude, I have to pee. H- let's hold this thought. We'll be right back.

Joe Rogan 47:44 Okay.

Duncan Trussell 47:44 And we're back. The saunas and the cold plunge back to back and all the water you drink, like, I can't... Oh, my-

Joe Rogan 47:51 Dude, it's so nice though, man.

Duncan Trussell 47:54 Isn't it great?

Joe Rogan 47:55 It's so great. It's so fucking great.

Duncan Trussell 47:57 I'm so glad you guys are doing it.

Joe Rogan 47:58 It's crazy. You got us all... Like, it's so funny watching us all work out.

Duncan Trussell 48:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:03 It's really cool. You're, like, forming a militia.

Duncan Trussell 48:06 Well, everybody feels better.

Joe Rogan 48:07 Yeah. Sure.

Duncan Trussell 48:08 Everybody. Hasan was saying, like, "Dude, I'm so much stronger. I feel so much better."

Joe Rogan 48:11 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 48:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:12 No, it's incredible, man. The impact is tremendous.

Duncan Trussell 48:15 When you were talking today about, like, you couldn't do chin-ups before, and now... How many did you do today?

Joe Rogan 48:20 Well, I was on- I mean, only... Five each set, but, you know, this is going from zero to five.

Duncan Trussell 48:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:28 And I told you, I dreamed. Like, last week, I dreamed. I, uh, about doing pull-ups. And, like, it was, uh, like, this is how far away I've been from doing pull-ups that I'm dreaming it, and I wake up, I'm like, "Oh, just a dream."

Duncan Trussell 48:42 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:42 So it was really wild to, like, so I was like, "Fuck, I can do pull-ups now? This is crazy." But I lost a lot of weight. When I was super fat, that was a big part of it, man. When you're overweight, like, you, pull-ups obviously are gonna be more difficult.

Duncan Trussell 48:54 When I have more time, I do it different and, uh, I was doing it different than I'm doing it now when I do the pull-up thing. So my body weight routine is I do, uh, 10 chin-ups, 20 dips, and then usually I do, uh, 20 pull-ups with, um...... uh, or whatever the ones they are. I don't know what you would call them, but it's got a bar where your hands are, uh, facing ... Like, if you put your hands together, like you're clapping, and then you separate them and grip. That, and they're in that position. And so, and then I, I do what's called an L chin-up. So you, you hold your feet out, like so your body's-

Joe Rogan 49:33 Crazy.

Duncan Trussell 49:33 ... in the L position, so you're working your abs and you're doing this chin-up. I generally do that, too. But, uh, what I was doing is the sets of 10 of those, 10 chin-ups, 20 dips, and 10 ... But it's ... When I get to 10, like 10 is like the, it's like a struggle. Like, I probably could do ... I don't know how many I can do in a row, like full ones all the way down. But I know I can do five easy. So if I do 10 sets of five, it's easier.

Joe Rogan 50:00 Right.

Duncan Trussell 50:01 You know, I can get 50 in pretty easy.

Joe Rogan 50:04 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 50:04 It's not hard to do. So you take the, you do ... Like when, um, Cameron Hanes's son broke the world chin-up record, he, he did f- 8,100 chin-ups in 24 hours. Um, he did f- sets of five. So you do five, and then you stop.

Joe Rogan 50:21 Well, do-

Duncan Trussell 50:21 And then you wait a minute and do another five, and then you stop, and then you wait a minute. And if you do that, like five is not hard to do if you can do 10, you know?

Joe Rogan 50:28 Right.

Duncan Trussell 50:28 Or if you can do 15. So you could bang out five pretty easy. And then, over the course of the workout, you get the same amount of reps, but you don't burn out.

Joe Rogan 50:37 Right.

Duncan Trussell 50:37 Right? That's like the Russian way to do it.

Joe Rogan 50:40 Russian?

Duncan Trussell 50:40 Yes. That's the, the way the, the, like, um, the kettlebell gurus, like guys like Pavel Tsatsouline, w- what their thing is about ... This, this is the concept behind, and I'm, I'm pro- paraphrasing it, probably butchering it, but strong first. And the idea is that strength, whether it's chin-ups or kettlebell routines, is a skill, and that you don't want to do a skill when you're tired. And the, the way to get stronger and, and get all the work in, is have much longer workouts with much more time in between sets.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Right.

Duncan Trussell 51:14 So what you would do is you would do ... So like if you do 10 cleans and presses, instead of 10 you would do five. And you do five, and then you wait a long time-

Joe Rogan 51:23 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:23 ... like five minutes, and then you do another five.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:25 And then you wait a long time.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:27 And then you do another five. And so every time you do it, you're fresh.

Joe Rogan 51:30 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:30 So you're getting the same amount of work in as if you did one 10, one rep- set of 10, where you get exhausted on the 10th, but you never hit that point of exhaustion. So your body never experiences real fatigue, but you get all the work.

Joe Rogan 51:44 No, man, I've, I've been doing ... The first time we worked out-

Duncan Trussell 51:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:48 ... you, that was something you were doing, which is like we were waiting way longer than I usually wait-

Duncan Trussell 51:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:53 ... in between exercises. And then, yeah, totally. Now do-

Duncan Trussell 51:56 'Cause I want you guys to full- ... I wanted everybody, like nobody left there wrecked.

Joe Rogan 52:00 No, not that time.

Duncan Trussell 52:01 The, the only thing that's gonna wreck you is the sled. The sled'll wreck you.

Joe Rogan 52:04 The sled is a- Will wreck you. ... demonic hell device.

Duncan Trussell 52:07 Will wreck you. The torque sled's the shit.

Joe Rogan 52:09 It tricks you-

Duncan Trussell 52:10 I love that thing.

Joe Rogan 52:10 ... too. The fucking torque sled, 'cause you feel like halfway down. You're like, "This is e- I can do this." And then it just ... Each step is more difficult.

Duncan Trussell 52:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:19 Dude, it's ... To me, what's fascinating about like getting stronger, and this is obvious to people like you, but to me what's fascinating is, and I know that I, I'm dumb, but is the revelation like shit is actually lighter now. Like, all this stuff that like, you know, was, uh, causing me to like run out of breath or-

Duncan Trussell 52:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:41 ... was a pain in the ass, it's light.

Duncan Trussell 52:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:44 Every ... It's, it'll ... It's a weird way of reducing the Earth's gravitational field. Like you are-

Duncan Trussell 52:50 100%.

Joe Rogan 52:51 ... existing on a, on a planet with less gravity when you're stronger. This, to me-

Duncan Trussell 52:55 Yes.

Joe Rogan 52:55 ... is like, all the aesthetic stuff aside, fuck, that is so nice-

Duncan Trussell 53:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:03 ... to, i- i- it's, it's, i- to ... Again, like I think people like you, who've been in shape for a long time, forget what it's like to not be in shape. You see us. You judge us.

Duncan Trussell 53:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:16 (laughs) But you don't, you don't know like how fucking hard it is at first just to get to the gym. You don't n-

Duncan Trussell 53:23 Oh, it's, uh, I, I do.

Joe Rogan 53:24 You n-

Duncan Trussell 53:24 I understand. I don't know it personally, but I do understand it.

Joe Rogan 53:27 It's hard.

Duncan Trussell 53:28 I really do, because I see it with all other things. It's like with everything else that you put off. It's b- like how you're cleaning off, cleaning your office. You know?

Joe Rogan 53:35 Exactly.

Duncan Trussell 53:35 Whatever, what the fu- whatever the fuck it is you're putting off.

Joe Rogan 53:37 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 53:38 Those things are, are, they're all the same. They're all the same. And you know you should do them, and you just don't do it, and you find some other shit to do instead. And that's what people do about the gym. And it's just ... You need ... The best way to do it is the way we're doing it, 'cause you get together with friends. And we all worked really hard today.

Joe Rogan 53:53 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 53:53 And we all were laughing the entire time.

Joe Rogan 53:55 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 53:56 That fucking sauna was so fun. I was in the middle of the sauna, and we're suffering. You know, Ari just threw some water on the rocks, and I was-

Joe Rogan 54:03 Bastard.

Duncan Trussell 54:03 I know. And I was, but I was sitting there thinking, "How fun is this?" Like, we're gonna look back on these days some day and go, "God, w- we're so lucky."

Joe Rogan 54:13 I know.

Duncan Trussell 54:13 "We're so lucky." I felt so fortunate. I'm sitting in this sauna with ... There's six of us in there, hilarious people, six hilarious people in a sauna, just laughing-

Joe Rogan 54:26 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 54:26 ... and talking shit to each other.

Joe Rogan 54:28 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 54:28 Hassan and Derek and Ari and Shane and you and me, and we're all just laughing.

Joe Rogan 54:33 A- And I think what's really great about it is it doesn't feel like anybody is taking it for granted. Like-

Duncan Trussell 54:39 No.

Joe Rogan 54:39 Everyone feels-

Duncan Trussell 54:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:40 ... aware of how cool-

Duncan Trussell 54:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:42 ... and funny it is. It's so fun. I'm just sitting after I did the last cold dip. I'm just sitting in the sauna to heat back up. Ari walks in naked.

Duncan Trussell 54:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:51 (laughs) Like, what l- what life am I in? What, what is this? It's so g- it's so cool. It really is. You know, man, I was, I just did a podcast with my friend, David McClain, who wrote a book on like, 'cause he has depression, being depressed, and being a parent. And we were talking about depression.And, you know, one of the things that triggers it or amplifies it is no social contact.

Duncan Trussell 55:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 55:17 Like, people who get depressed, they stop hanging out.

Duncan Trussell 55:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:20 And the m- more you're not hanging out, the more depressed you get. And then we were talking about technologically how working from home, how-

Duncan Trussell 55:28 Mm.

Joe Rogan 55:29 ... technology, as beautiful as it is to work from home, and I have to put-

Duncan Trussell 55:32 Encouraging depression.

Joe Rogan 55:33 Yeah, dude.

Duncan Trussell 55:34 Of course, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:34 And then he was saying, uh, the ri- the- the- the lifespan has dropped in men because of so many men are killing themselves.

Duncan Trussell 55:45 Mm.

Joe Rogan 55:45 The suicide rates are so high right now. Y- dudes are just offing themselves left and right. And I was just th- uh, thinking, "Fuck, man."

Duncan Trussell 55:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:56 This- this is not just the- the pandemic got us working from home, but it also got us, like- we- we're seated into our shells.

Duncan Trussell 56:04 A lot of people never came out of it the same.

Joe Rogan 56:06 Yeah, man.

Duncan Trussell 56:07 A lot of people, the- the social anxiety that they carried around with them on a day-to-day basis, then isolation, and some pe- I know people that are isolated for a long ass time.

Joe Rogan 56:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:15 Some people, they... Do you know it's like some people are virgins when they're 30? And they're like, "What the fuck?"

Joe Rogan 56:20 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:20 "How did I- how did I stay a virgin? I'm fucking 30."

Joe Rogan 56:22 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:23 Some people, it's, like, two and a half years in, they're still locked up in their house.

Joe Rogan 56:27 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:27 They're still terrified to go outside. They never... Whether they don't have friends, which is also part of it. Like, if you don't have people around you where you're talking about it, like, "You know, I think we're okay now." If you don't have people like that around you-

Joe Rogan 56:38 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:38 ... then you're all in your own head all the time.

Joe Rogan 56:40 Right.

Duncan Trussell 56:40 And, like, what social circles are you interacting with online? Maybe you're interacting with a bunch of also- p- people who are also shut-ins, who are terrified of going outside.

Joe Rogan 56:48 I know, man.

Duncan Trussell 56:49 Like, I know a guy who's, like, he keeps posting stuff about masks. He used to be, like, a normal dude, but he's talking about masking and the importance of masking, on Ma-... Like, now, he's masking now-

Joe Rogan 56:59 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:59 ... and talking about masking-

Joe Rogan 57:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 57:01 ... posting ar-... Like, anything he could find about the benefits of masking.

Joe Rogan 57:04 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 57:05 Like, what are you doing, man?

Joe Rogan 57:06 I mean, at what point is it wo- i- what... It's quality of life.

Duncan Trussell 57:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:11 It's like, e-... Like, even if COVID w- was, like, the Black Plague, like at some point, what's worth more? Like, is it even worth being alive if you're-

Duncan Trussell 57:21 But, but the thing is about, like, if someone is isolated and depressed, it's just the same thing as, like, trying to get to the gym. Like, how do you get social? How do you get outside? How do you meet people? How do you b- how do you make m- meaningful friendships?

Joe Rogan 57:33 You... It's a miracle. If anybody who's, like, stuck-

Duncan Trussell 57:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:36 ... on that glue trap, i- if they, like, get outside at all, it's a miracle.

Duncan Trussell 57:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:41 Much less get therapy, much less, like, fi-

Duncan Trussell 57:44 Do something-

Joe Rogan 57:45 ... inter- like-

Duncan Trussell 57:45 ... where you interact with other people.

Joe Rogan 57:46 It's all these little fucking miracles that y- help someone climb out of hell. I mean, it's a- it's- it's like-

Duncan Trussell 57:52 Also, they lose their ability to talk to people.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Well, right.

Duncan Trussell 57:55 So they don't even know how to express themselves right. They come off awkward and fucking goofy.

Joe Rogan 57:59 Yeah, and that makes it worse.

Duncan Trussell 58:00 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:00 And then they're ashamed 'cause that's, like, depression, that's a big part of it-

Duncan Trussell 58:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:03 ... is just fucking shame. You feel so ashamed of yourself. You feel like such a fucking failure and such a loser.

Duncan Trussell 58:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:10 And the depression is like, "Yeah, (laughs) you are."

Duncan Trussell 58:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:12 "You're awful." Then suicidal ideation starts-

Duncan Trussell 58:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:16 ... and then you normalize that. And then the next thing you know, you're planning, and then you kill yourself. It's such a sickness, and it's fucked up to think that it's so prevalent, more prevalent right now, probably, than we know. 'Cause generally, when people are depressed, they don't tell anybody 'cause it tells you not to tell anybody. You don't wanna tell anyone 'cause you feel weak. You feel like such a weak piece of shit. You don't wanna tell anybody. Keep it quiet.

Duncan Trussell 58:42 This guy that you were talking to, did he get out of his depression?

Joe Rogan 58:46 Uh, he started doing ketamine therapy.

Duncan Trussell 58:49 Mm.

Joe Rogan 58:49 And it's been helping him a lot. And no, uh, I don't think he's to-... He's not out of it, but y- you know what? But he's, like, y- in action. He, like, you know, is like-

Duncan Trussell 58:59 He's mitigating it.

Joe Rogan 59:00 He's mitigating and doing a good job mitigating it. It's very impressive that he's doing that.

Duncan Trussell 59:05 Is he, um... Does he exercise?

Joe Rogan 59:08 You... I think so. Yeah. You know what happened to him though, man? He wrote a whole book on this shit. He took this stuff, um... God, what's it called, man? Uh, it's a malaria pill. Do you know about this? It's so fucked up.

Duncan Trussell 59:22 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:24 So- so he to-... He was in India taking this malaria medication.

Duncan Trussell 59:28 That stuff's supposed to wreck you.

Joe Rogan 59:29 Dude, I took it. I took it when I went to India, and I had a dream. And in the dream, a pirate skeleton-

Duncan Trussell 59:37 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 59:38 ... disembowels me, and I feel it in the d-... I could feel my guts coming out. It was the most vivid, horrible dream. I told some Australian dude about the dream, and he asked right away if I was on this mala- malaria medication.

Duncan Trussell 59:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:51 I'm like, "Yeah." And he's like, "You've got to stop taking that right now. Stop taking it." And I- I- I stopped taking it. But he was on this stuff, and, um... So in a train station in India, he gets complete amnesia. Doesn't know his name, doesn't know... Would you mind looking up the name of the book for me, Jamie, so I'm not a dick and don't even say the name of his book? It's- it's a great book, by the way. Uh, doesn't know his name, has no idea where he's at, who he is, has to g-... So they're like, "Who..." They have to put him in a, like, home in India. I think he punched a nurse, he was so confused and fucking out of it. And, uh, yeah, man. I mean, I asked him if he thinks it's 'cause of that, uh, you know, what happened to him. He's like, "I don't know. It's been a long time since that happened." But you can't rule it out.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:40 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 This shit is bad news.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:42 Dave Foley got on it because, uh, his family was going to, uh, Africa for a vacation, and he, uh, had to take malaria medication in order to meet them there. And so he was taking this malaria medication, and you're not supposed to drink on it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:59 Dave enjoys a drink or two.

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:02 So we were at one of these press things where the actors meet with the press people, and Dave got super hostile with this reporter. And the guy was ta-... trying to talk to him with a little tape recorder, and Dave took his tape recorder away and dunked it in his drink.... and then (laughs) like, and it- and Dave was, like, getting really angry with him, and no one could figure out what was going on. And, um, I had to, like, corner him. I had to, like, stop him from, like, physically going after a reporter.

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 Fuck.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:34 Yeah. And he had no i- no n- recollection of it. The next day, he came in for the table read, and he was, like, sort of apologizing to everybody. He's like, "I'm on this malaria medication, and I really don't remember anything that happened."

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:45 And I was like, "Dude, I had to keep you from kicking someone's ass." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Dude, this stuff, I can't believe they're still giving it to people.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:49 Dave Foley is the sweetest guy-

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 Sweetest guy.

Duncan Trussell 1:01:51 ... who has ever lived.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 You c- like, this is, it- it's called The Answer to the Question is Me, right, to the book. But thi- this, y- he ta- in the book, he talks about th- so many people are, have been wrecked by this shit.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 And, like, the m- the way it was manufactured and stuff, and I guess y- it's like when, you know when you put a kink in a garden hose?

Duncan Trussell 1:02:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 You're basically doing that with your deng- your d- what are the connectors, the dendrites? You're like clogging up all your neuroreceptors-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:20 Golly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 ... and then all of a sudden, sometimes it just rushes out-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:23 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 ... all, and then you just, you're blasted. You, people have permanent damage from this shit, um, they-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:30 Can they still give it to people?

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 I think so. I wish I could remember the name of it. God, Jesus, maybe-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:35 What is the cure for malaria? Like, if you get malaria?

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 (sighs) No idea. No idea.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:40 Is, like, it worth getting and getting over it? Do you get any-

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 I think-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:46 ... I mean, immunity?

Narrator 1:02:48 This?

Duncan Trussell 1:02:48 The FDA approved use for treating and preventing malaria in 1989, but in the 1990s, stories began to surface regarding some serious side effects among patients who took mefloquine. Yeah, this is the stuff that Justin Wren took, right? Including vivid dreams and nightmares, hallucinations, mania, seizures, depression, suicidal thoughts and suicide and homicide.

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 Yeah, dude. This shit is bad news.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:10 (exhales)

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 Bad news.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:11 Suicide and homicide? It can cause you to murder people? Cases of chloroquine-induced psychosis have been reported since 1958.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:20 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 Depersonalization, anxiety, derealization, and visual hallucinations.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:26 I wonder if that hydroxychloroquine shit they were given people at the beginning of COVID did that.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 I was wondering that when I heard about it. Like, what is that gonna do to people?

Duncan Trussell 1:03:34 Is hydroxychloroquine what they use for, um, malaria as well? B- uh, put hydroxychloroquine, 'cause all, hydroxychloroquine is like, it became connected inexorably to COVID misinformation.

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:51 Right? Donald Trump, you're a Trumper, you're a MAGA supporter, hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. It became, like, locked into that, which is really interesting. So, it's immunosuppressive drug, an antiparasite. It can treat and prevent malaria.

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 It does this-

Duncan Trussell 1:04:06 So, it's for malaria. Um, it can also treat lupus and arthritis. Whoa.

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 That's cool.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:13 Mea- yeah, but meanwhile, it's fucking MAGA. "It's a MAGA drug." Isn't it wild that a drug can get labeled as, like, a foolish drug to take? Like, if you told people today that you're taking ivermectin, they'd be like, "What the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you take that?"

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 Yeah, that was a whole, i- i- you know-

Duncan Trussell 1:04:31 "You're not a horse. Come on, y'all."

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:33 "Get your shit together."

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:35 Remember that?

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 It, dude, I tr- listen, as, uh, a former fan of ketamine, I would always get offended, 'cause people were like, "Isn't that a horse tranquilizer?" And you wanna be like, "No!"

Duncan Trussell 1:04:43 No, it's a cat tranquilizer.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Exactly. But it's like-

Duncan Trussell 1:04:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 ... first of all, if you do get the, uh, the animal anesthe- uh, ketamine, mwah.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Wait. 'Cause they don't give a, they don't give a fuck about the animals.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:55 (laughs) So they give you the real shit.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 Like, the human stuff is less psychedelic. The cat-

Duncan Trussell 1:04:59 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 The cat shit, they're like, "I don't care if you trip out. It's a fucking cat."

Duncan Trussell 1:05:04 (laughs) Imagine your cat just fucking tripping balls while-

Joe Rogan 1:05:08 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:09 ... they're in the air like that bunny.

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 Talking to aliens, merging with spacetime, seeing their past lives.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:16 I remember when Neal Brennan did it. Neal Brennan did it, and he- he- he came up to me at the store and he was telling me about it. He's like, "Dude," he goes, "I thought, you know, it was gonna be just, like, you know, mild or something."

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 (gasps)

Duncan Trussell 1:05:27 "I was tripping balls."

Joe Rogan 1:05:30 Balls.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:30 At a doctor's office. With an IV drip.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 Dude, glory-

Duncan Trussell 1:05:34 For depression.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 Glory be to God, and the, uh, the interesting data behind it is that that experience, some people don't have it. And, and it is irrelevant to treatment. So, if you go in there and you get it and you don't trip out, I'm sorry. But if you don't, you still, it still will have some statistical probability of, um, mitigating your depression.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:57 Oh, so some people don't experience a psychedelic effect?

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 No, apparently not.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:00 Huh.

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 Which I don't understand at all.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:01 But they say that about DMT as well. That there's-

Joe Rogan 1:06:04 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:04 ... a certain percentage of the population it just doesn't work on.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Maybe it's the way they're metabolizing it or something. I don't know.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:09 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 But it, it, it's i- it's irrelevant to the, 'cause you know, in my, when, when I was in t- my theory on it, my woo-woo theory on it was, oh, the, the reason it's like treating depression is 'cause it's reminding you that you're not your body. It's reminding you that your body is just an aspect of what you are.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:27 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 And there's some relief, uh, from that, that memory of like, "Oh, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm not just me. There's much more going on here than just me." And then you're not depressed anymore. But no, that isn't it at all. It's i- i- having some physiological, uh, effect on the human brain that is treating depression. So, it's not like a wisdom that comes from the visionary state.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:48 The weird thing about depression when we think about it, we think about it as, like, a, a disease. And we never think about it as a state of mind that can be manipulated. We th- we think, like, if per- so a person has depression, like, you want to be respectful. And that person clearly, that, that s- they have a, a problem. There's a medical problem. We need to h- get them help.

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:07 'Cause they have depression. But everyone that I know that's had depression where their life got better, their depression mitigated.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 Dude ...

Duncan Trussell 1:07:17 What, I mean ...

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:18 What is, I mean, if your life sucks, of course you're gonna be depressed. Like-Part of that must be some sort of strategy, some evolutionary advantage to someone who feels that discomfort and then acts because of it. It must be what it is.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 A hundr- dude, it's despair.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 It's like, you know the way you get calluses? You're having a sh- you're having a rough time long enough, some physiological corollary for what you're going through forms inside of you, you know? And so that's, depression I think is the, the physical-

Duncan Trussell 1:07:53 To let you know you're doing the wrong shit.

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 And, and to, in some way to just numb you down to, to, like, it, it's, it's, it's, uh, your body's sad attempt to like help you reduce pain, I think.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:08:09 It's, you know? And it-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:10 When someone tries to, it's like someone trying to annoy you to change. You're like, "Jesus Christ, leave me alone."

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:15 "Stop annoying me."

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:16 This is not how to do it, this is not how to get me to not be depressed.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:20 Just, like, not, that's not how to get me to act and do positive things-

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 Never works.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:23 ... that are gonna enrich my life and make me f- happy and fulfilled-

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:27 ... by just making me feel shittier and shittier with every m- chip I eat.

Joe Rogan 1:08:30 Yeah, dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:31 You know? Just shittier and just more depressed and more sad. No matter what you've ever done in your life, in that moment, you feel like a fucking loser.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 You do. It's, um-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 ... um, it's the, you know, it's like, it, it's another form of gravity. Like, that's a other aspect of-

Duncan Trussell 1:08:48 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 ... of depression is you literally feel heavy.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 Like your bed feels like a magnet.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 Like, it's, so, so, you know, you're getting drawn into this, like, invisible gravity of despair and that gravity, the more you let it grab you, the w- the more entropic you become, the weaker you become.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 And it's just pulling you, it's literally pulling you into the earth.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:12 Literally pulling you in.

Joe Rogan 1:09:13 It's pull, it's pulling you down into the earth. It's so fucked up. Dude, I thought I had seasonal affective disorder, which is where in the winter you get depressed, but then I, it was diabetes.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:24 Dude.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 Dude, I was fucking di- my, my depression, w- I'm, I'm pretty positive was b-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:30 Well, talk about what we talked about today with the fucking vapes.

Joe Rogan 1:09:33 Oh my god. Yeah, I, uh, so like a b- a little over a month ago, found out I had type 2 diabetes, uh, i- m- immediately cut out all sugar, cut out, like, just all sugar. And-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:47 First of all, talk about that, because you started texting me, like, five days later. You're like, "What the fuck, dude?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:53 "I can't believe how good I feel. Oh my god, I've been poisoning myself."

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 Born again, man. It was the best, you know, 'cause I had bowel cancer, I can't get on, like, some of the awesome fucking meds I'd like to get on. Uh, but, uh, and, you know, h- having chatted with people who have, like, enjoyed testosterone therapy and stuff, and they're like, "I feel like I'm a kid again," it's like that. Like, it was a two-day headache, two days, shit headache, rotten headache, and then suddenly, it's like I'm in a new life. I was, no, like I don't nap anymore. I was like a big napper.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:28 Oh, crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 I love napping.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:30 Isn't that crazy, that that's what that is?

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 Oh my god. And, and you know, and y- oh, nap, like my, nappers out there, you prob- if you're doing what I did, you're just sort of like you romanticize the napping thing.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 I would think it's a siesta. This is like a, a, it's completely, and my kids take naps. This is normal.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 Yeah, dude. I was like, the naps are, not to say that every once in a while I won't get sleepy and, and take a nap, but that's like when the, I was doing it as much as I could every day. Like, you know, y- all these assumptions that I was making regarding age, like, "This must just be part of being old."

Duncan Trussell 1:11:11 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 "I guess I'm slowing down now." No. You have fucking diabetes. You're like a candied apple. I am so lucky-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:19 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 ... I didn't die. And, um, so yeah, uh, like, i- it's one of the most miraculous things that has happened to me ever. It's, it's insane. Like, this, you know, I, it's part of the reason that, like, I'm, like, r- regularly exercising, because I just, mood, oh my god,

Joe Rogan 1:11:40 dude, mood swings. I was having these fucking mood swings, and-

Duncan Trussell 1:11:44 Taking insulin spikes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:46 And, and, and insulin spikes.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:47 But I'm thinking, "Ah, seasonal affective disorder, maybe some, like, undiagnosed mania," you know, I, I, like the, I guess this is just, "Ope, I'm in one of those moods again." Now that I've been, like, taking my fucking blood sugar, I know it, this level, this is what I feel like, and I can tell when it's up just by, like, how I start feeling.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 And so yeah, the vaping story, I keep thinking of Tony Hinchcliffe relentlessly roasting me for ear beating people about my diabetes. I don't wanna do it much longer. He's like-

Duncan Trussell 1:12:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 ... he's so, I love it when he starts fucking, "Tell us more about your diabetes." (laughs) Uh, but yeah, uh, so yeah, I, um, uh, went on a family trip where I, I was vaping, like, much less than I do. And suddenly my blood sugar starts leveling out. Like, I would wake up, which is the important number, when you wake up, your fasting blood sugar will be like no- non-diabetic normal. Get back to Austin, and then 'cause I'm in my studio, start vaping like an idiot again, and all of a sudden the blood sugar starts getting fucking weird. And you know, I'm thinking like, "What did I eat?" Like, "What have I put in my body?" 'Cause I've just, I've cut out all sugar. Like, what is it? Is it like, what's getting into me that, is it the milk that I've, I put creamer in my coffee? I'm so dumb. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:13:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:10 I'm like, "Smoking cherry Cola vapes?"

Duncan Trussell 1:13:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 "What could it be? What could be the culprit behind this?" And then yeah, so like, I quit vaping, and yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:21 So we found out today, we Googled it today-

Joe Rogan 1:13:24 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:24 ... that, uh, a lot of these vapes have sugar in them, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:13:27 Shocker.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:29 S- uh, alcohol sugar, or sugar alcohol.

Joe Rogan 1:13:31 Yeah, I mean, it, uh, totally like, totally fu- I mean, it's, but, you know, again, it's like...... yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:39 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:13:40 They're bad for you.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:41 Also, they have flavor. Like, what do you think that flavor's made out of?

Joe Rogan 1:13:43 Think it's coming... You think they're using all natural ingredients at the vape factory?

Duncan Trussell 1:13:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:49 What, what do you-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:49 What's making that fake strawberry taste?

Joe Rogan 1:13:52 Dude, I, I know, it's... I mean, I, it really... I was, like, honestly bummed out when I realized I was gonna have to say goodbye to my pacifier, but-

Duncan Trussell 1:13:59 Yeah, but that pacifier is weird, because you only... It's only good the first hit or two.

Joe Rogan 1:14:03 True.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:04 And then something happens, and then you're just chasing this dragon that you never get.

Joe Rogan 1:14:08 Now, you're just d- demolishing... And you know-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:11 And then you're just sucking on it and nothing's happening, you- you just feel anxiety.

Joe Rogan 1:14:14 And you know what it was, man? Another two-day headache. It- I went through-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:18 ... another two-day fucking shit withdrawal period, and now I don't give a shit about them.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:23 Like, I've, I've been thinking, like, how many of us are two days away from the kingdom of heaven? Like, two days away-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:32 ... from, uh, uh, and the only thing keeping us from it-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:35 ... is, like, a mildly annoying headache.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:38 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 It's so sad.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:40 It is sad. It's weird, too. It's sad and weird.

Speaker 1:14:43 Did you see this video a couple of weeks ago?

Duncan Trussell 1:14:45 Yeah, a b- bunch of kids testing them.

Speaker 1:14:47 Yeah, disgusting.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:48 Yeah, that's what you're making out with every time you're, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:14:51 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:51 These poor kids that probably have lung diseases.

Joe Rogan 1:14:54 Dude, I-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:54 Like, what kind of diseases do they get working in this factory, testing vapes?

Joe Rogan 1:14:58 When I was in the throws of vape addiction and I saw that, I honestly was like, "That seems nice." Like... (laughs)

Speaker 1:15:03 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:15:03 It- they're meticulously inspecting all of them. These guys are just blasting vapes all day.

Speaker 1:15:09 They probably have a c- a counterfeit place, but ............................

Duncan Trussell 1:15:11 Elf Bar swiftly clarified the factory seen in the videos entirely unrelated to their operations.

Joe Rogan 1:15:15 Oh, that's good news.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:17 Elf Bar CEO, Victor Zhao, expressed his concern, stating, "Consumers would be..." Oh, "condition under which these products are produced." I don't remember what he said. It's a valid concern.

Speaker 1:15:29 I don't know.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:29 These revelations coincide with the Food and Drug Administration's struggles to control unauthorized flavor vaping products pouring in from China. Health authorities have raised alarms about the flavored disposable vapes, especially due to their popularity amongst young people. In June, the FDA took the decisive action. This sounds like propaganda.

Speaker 1:15:50 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:50 Compelling all 180 stores across the US. See, maybe they paid people to do this, just so they could put that video out there on TikTok-

Joe Rogan 1:15:57 (laughs) Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:57 ... and try to ban vapes.

Joe Rogan 1:15:58 I mean-

Duncan Trussell 1:15:59 At least, a fucking RJ Reynolds is losing money.

Joe Rogan 1:16:01 Dude, I can't even imagine-

Duncan Trussell 1:16:03 Maybe that's it.

Joe Rogan 1:16:03 ... what a hit-

Duncan Trussell 1:16:03 I mean, I would imagine. They probably took a big hit when people started vaping.

Joe Rogan 1:16:06 Yeah, I mean, primitive fucking cigarettes, but-

Duncan Trussell 1:16:08 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:09 ... they don't fucking blast your blood sugar, man. That's the thing. Like...

Duncan Trussell 1:16:12 Yeah, those, uh, vapes, they... You get- you're getting some sugar. And if you're sucking on it like you do, boy, you're hitting that bad boy all day long.

Joe Rogan 1:16:18 You saw me doing it.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:19 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 1:16:20 Just bad news.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:21 Oh, ............................

Joe Rogan 1:16:21 I'm such an addict, dude, just fucking puffing away on those things.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:24 But I think, like, for your brain, the- the Zyn pouches and these Rogue pouches, they're the best in terms of, like, uh, the cognitive benefits of nicotine. Like, I- I feel them the most.

Joe Rogan 1:16:36 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:36 And they don't make me lightheaded and weird.

Joe Rogan 1:16:39 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:40 The vape thing, what I like about the vape thing, is the first hit, it's like, "Whee." That's what I like.

Joe Rogan 1:16:44 Oh, yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:45 I like that "whee." You know when I used to like it? I used to like it right after I got done working out. So, I would do all my shit in the morning, then I'd be driving to work and I'd take a big blast of it, right when I'm starting to drive to work, just, "Whee."

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 (sighs) Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:16:57 Everything's beautiful. But that never comes back.

Joe Rogan 1:17:00 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:00 You only get that, like, for the first hit. But then you always want to try to recreate it, so you try to hit it again-

Joe Rogan 1:17:04 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:04 ... but it's never there.

Joe Rogan 1:17:05 Never.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:05 It's never there.

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 Never fucking there.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:07 Never there.

Joe Rogan 1:17:08 Yeah, never there. Yeah, I mean, I... For all my vape friends out there, I'm not shaming you. If you don't have diabetes, you know?

Duncan Trussell 1:17:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:15 Keep vaping.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:16 Yeah, if you don't have diabetes, whatever. But-

Joe Rogan 1:17:17 Don't keep vaping, but I mean, if you don't have-

Duncan Trussell 1:17:19 It's-

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 It's like, if you have-

Duncan Trussell 1:17:20 ... not a good habit. It's a weird habit, because it... I don't think it does much for you.

Joe Rogan 1:17:27 Well, I th-

Duncan Trussell 1:17:28 I think there's really something to, uh... There's something to nicotine. There's- there's, without a doubt, there's-

Joe Rogan 1:17:35 Sure.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:35 ... cognitive benefits to nicotine that's actually been demonstrated. Like, they've done some studies on nicotine. And nic- nicotine also has some sort of a neuroprotective effect, like Huberman's talked pretty extensively about nicotine, the benefits of nicotine.

Joe Rogan 1:17:49 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:17:49 But he's very, very anti-vape.

Joe Rogan 1:17:52 Well, I mean, you know, with all... Whatever your favorite consciousness expander is, you know, I just love the ethic of personal responsibility. Like-

Duncan Trussell 1:18:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:02 ... you have to be responsible for yourself. You have to recognize when you have become imprisoned by the damn thing.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:18:10 A- and I'm so good at pretending I'm not imprisoned by-

Duncan Trussell 1:18:15 Well, you're used to doing it with video games.

Joe Rogan 1:18:17 D- that's what I'm tal-... Exactly. Like, all of these-

Duncan Trussell 1:18:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:20 ... uh, I don't mean to keep harping on this dumb idea that I've had, just had this morning, is like, it's these gravitational fields.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:27 Right? And like, the... Inevitably, you become sucked into this thing or that.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:34 And it produces astounding imbalance in your life.

Duncan Trussell 1:18:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:18:37 But the imbalance, you- you can trick yourself into pretending the imbalance isn't really there. E- e-

Duncan Trussell 1:18:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:18:45 And that's... Addicts, we're very good at that. So, you- it's denial or whatever, ignorance. So you ignore the imbalance, you ignore... Like, you don't check in with your body or you assume that your shitty feeling is normal. You normalize the day-to-day-

Duncan Trussell 1:19:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 ... shit feeling. And then, uh, to- to begin to, like, pull things out of your environment and see how you feel when they're gone, it's very hard to do 'cause you're glued to the damn thing. You've- we've become... It's a pacifier, whatever it may be. So it's like, I'm lucky, man, because, like, I- without diabetes, I'm a dad. I can't have a fucking stroke.

Duncan Trussell 1:19:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:19:26 I can't have a heart attack.

Duncan Trussell 1:19:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:19:28 So that- that was all I needed to, like-

Duncan Trussell 1:19:33 Wake you the fuck up.

Joe Rogan 1:19:33 ...