Joe Rogan Experience #2091 - Diana Walsh Pasulka

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music)

   4. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:12

      It's a scary, it's a scary podcast for me, 'cause I feel like you're... because I know a lot of the things that you've said and I've related to them, and I've said, "Okay, this makes sense."

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Why is that scary?

   6. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:24

      Okay, so it's scary because it's not consensus reality. And, you know, because it's not consensus reality, we could talk about it over hot chocolate, in the fir- you know, near a fire or something.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:37

      Right.

   8. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:37

      But here we're talking about it and lots of people are going to be listening.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:40

      Yes.

   10. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:41

       So that is somewhat-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah. That's-

   12. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:43

       ... scary. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       That's the hu- hurdle that we all have to get over, and the, the good thing about this is it really is just us talking.

   14. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:50

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       You know, and there are a lot of people that are going to listen, but they're just people too.

   16. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:55

       That's true.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       And-

   18. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:56

       And they've probably had these experiences.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Some of them have.

   20. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka0:59

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       Yeah. The, the experiences that are, that are available through psychedelics, that I've always wondered, I mean, the thing that has always struck me about the UFO experience, uh, particularly the abduction experience is that it always happens when people are asleep, it always happens at night. It either happens on the road when people are tired and it's late at night, or it happens... Like, why does it have to happen at night? The universe doesn't give a shit what... where the sun is in position to the planet. Like that doesn't make any sense, that all these UFO abduction experiences would happen only when the sun is on the other side.

   22. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:39

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       That's so dumb. It makes no sense. It's literally s- it's such an egocentric, Earth-centric perspective that... And not even Earth-centric, uh, hemispherical-centric, right? It, it, it depends on where the sun is in position to the Earth. For that to be the only time that UFOs come, I was always like, "This seems like horseshit." There's something about it that seems like horseshit, but there's also something about it that seems real. When you listen to like Betty and Barney Hill, when they're, they're talking, boy that sounds like people talking about a real thing, boy that sounds like a real experience, it really does. And these people like the Whitley Strieberers, these people that talk about these experiences that happen at night, we know for a fact that when you are sleeping, your brain is producing endogenous psychedelic chemicals. We have no idea why. We have no idea what the purpose of those things are. We have no idea what the quantity is. We, we used to think, until recently, um, they weren't even exactly sure like where it was being produced, but now, uh, through Strassman's work and through the work of the Cottonwood Research Foundation, the, the, uh, people that do those DMT studies, they know that now your brain is producing this. And so is your brain, um, is it a... Is it producing a chemical gateway into another dimension? And is that why these people are experiencing these ab- abduction, l- you know, air quote, abduction experiences, these, these encounters, let's, let's say encounters, is that why they're happening at night? Is that why they're happening while they're lying in bed, because that seems to make way more sense?

   24. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka3:22

       Yeah, that's a great question. I can talk a little bit about this.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       Please.

   26. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka3:26

       Okay, so I think that-

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Can we... I think we're starting weird.

   28. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka3:30

       Yeah. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:30

       Let's... Can we just start with how did you get involved in this?

   30. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka3:34

       Okay.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka15:00

      patents, and they're all related to space. And, and the Space Force has a special place for him. Like, he's special, right? What I found was that he was practicing these types of protocols. I call them protocols because they reminded me of Plato and monastic traditions, the traditions of monks and things. So, um, he would make sure that he got sunshine. He would make sure that he got plenty of sleep. Um, he would not have too much caffeine. Um, he exercised a lot. Uh, he boxed, right? So, he was also a fighter. And he tried to stay away from people. I know it sounds weird, but that's what monks do. They try to stay... You know, they try to like monitor their input of people.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:40

      Mm-hmm.

   3. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka15:41

      Because those people can actually take them off their game, or something like that. But so this guy was put into a- another mental state, and during this mental state, he said that he could receive calculations, he could receive information, he could receive things, and then he c- he could gather a group of scientists, and he wouldn't tell them where he came from, 'cause he honestly thought they were coming from, um, these things outside of spacetime, kind of like ETs or something, off-planet intelligences.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:11

      Which Tesla also believed.

   5. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka16:13

      And our, the people who started our own Space Force believed it. So, this isn't common knowledge. That's what I found, is like a lot of people aren't, they don't know this history of the American Space Force and the Russian Space Force, very much the same. These people were doing these things. And this allowed them... You see this in sports, right? So, people... I was just using this example in a class yesterday. Um, I saw this basketball game two or three years ago with Steph Curry, and you know, the way they were playing, it was almost as if there was an emergent phenomena that was bigger than each of the people, 'cause they somehow anticipated what the other guy was going to do.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:50

      Mm-hmm.

   7. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka16:50

      And I w- I used to do sports, and I know that this is something that can be done. Um, there's a flow state, right?

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:56

      Mm-hmm.

   9. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka16:57

      And I think that this is what Plato was trying to get his, his group into, through these protocols.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:03

       W- Well, that makes sense. It's... And one of the things that happens in flow state is that you stop being there.

   11. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:10

       That's right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       Yeah, it's not you.

   13. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:12

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       And you're just experiencing this thing.

   15. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:14

       Totally, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Yeah. You, you experience it on stage doing standup. You, you-

   17. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:21

       I, I imagine that.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:21

       When you do it right.

   19. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:22

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       When you get it right-

   21. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:23

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:23

       ... you're on a ride.

   23. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:24

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:25

       Like, you're just like sort of like making sure that, "Okay, feed this into the machine, and go," and it goes. And then, and you're sort of like you're in tune with what you're saying, but you're almost outside of yourself.

   25. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:39

       That's exactly right. And you know, there is science that shows that this is the case.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:43

       Mm-hmm. Right, with, with brainwaves.

   27. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:46

       Yeah. The problem is, is that there... Like, when Joe's out there on stage, they're not going to hook you up to a- an MRI, right?

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:54

       Right.

   29. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka17:54

       They can't do that kind of... 'Cause when it's happening, it's happening spontaneously. It just happens, and no one can actually predict when it's going to happen. But you hope that it happens.

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:03

       And also, if they did hook you up to it, you would also be aware that you're being monitored-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah, it makes you…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

   2. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka30:01

      Yeah, it makes you wonder, doesn't it?

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      Yeah. Like what's going on right now.

   4. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka30:04

      That's exactly what I think. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      I don't think they're as good right now.I think right now, they're- they're baffled by this thing called the internet. And I think the internet threw a giant monkey wrench in propaganda, because it- it made people s- so much more resistant to bullshit.

   6. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka30:21

      Yes. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:22

      Ther- and- and then the- when you see things like, especially coming out of the pandemic, when you see how incompetent these people that are supposed to be leaders are, and how foolhardy they are, and how stupid their decisions were, and then you just look at the undeniable transfer of wealth to the upper small area of the country that gained billions of dollars in wealth, and how much it devastated small businesses, and, like, did you guys do this on purpose? Like, do you know what you're doing? Are you idiots? Like, why are you telling us what to do? You guys are fools. And especially when it comes to, uh, d- like, uh, is- does anybody believe that Joe Biden's ever had a transcendent experience? Does anybody believe that Joe Biden has ever, like, met God and- and came back with a- a message for mankind? No. It's like everything is, like, bizarre, ego-driven, narrative-driven lies and propaganda and just nonsense that's supposed to make it look like they're doing the right thing always.

   8. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka31:26

      Yeah, that's the- that's a terrible idea of justice.

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:29

      Yes.

   10. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka31:30

       But it's the appearance of justice-

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:32

       Yeah.

   12. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka31:32

       ... without actually doing the right thing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       Yeah, and it's- it's- it's just a- I mean, it's also very- it's, uh, got all the aspects of a cult. All- th- the people that go along with it, no matter what the evidence shows, the people- the people that aren't, like, stepping back and going, "Wait a minute. We are- we are being run by f- people that have zero feelings for the- the actual populace," and all they're trying to do is feed this machine that's got them to where they are in the first place.

   14. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka32:01

       Yeah. It's, uh, terrible.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       It's terrible-

   16. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka32:03

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:03

       ... and it's- it- it, as it moves forward, it creates the need for resistance, and it creates the n- and th- that's what I've always thought about evil and- and- and negative things in the first place. Like, they are necessary because they motivate change, and they motivate evolution. They motivate expression of- of dis- of d- disdain, of- of d- people that are completely displeased, people that are very upset with the way things are. They know this is the wrong way.

   18. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka32:37

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:37

       And it motivates th- th- the- the zeitgeist to move into a different direction-

   20. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka32:43

       I-

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:43

       ... which I think is happening.

   22. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka32:45

       I hear that. Um, this was, uh, actually a comment from a student, the exact same comment that you just said, is that, you know, there's this structural evil, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       Mm-hmm.

   24. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka32:53

       There's this evil, and it actually does some good in the sense that it motivates people to transform.

   25. JRJoe Rogan33:00

       Yeah.

   26. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka33:01

       Okay. I mean, yeah. I agree with you. Um, and I'm at the same point. So through th- through my looking at the UFO phenomena, and, you know, I knew all of this. I- I grew up in Northern California. You know, there w- there were the, uh, the grove- the, um, I can't think of the name. It's right above where I live. Um, the Bohemian Grove.

   27. JRJoe Rogan33:25

       Mm. Yeah.

   28. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka33:25

       You know, so I kind of already had an idea of this kind of thing. Um, you know, of the- the group, the cult, as you call it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan33:33

       Yeah.

   30. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka33:34

       All right? And it's easy to see. Um, well, for those who have- who can see it, it's easy to see. Some people don't want to see it.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Now is this a…

   1. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:00

      being, you know... People are asking me to meet, you know, people from these programs and from the Space Force, and I'm actually not meeting with them because I'm waiting. I'm- I'm kind of thinking. I've got to think this through. Um, it wasn't until about 2014 that I actually start to meet the people, like the um, affiliated people. And they show me some things and they, you know, they- they asked me to go to this crash retrieval site in New Mexico.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:27

      Now is this a recent crash?

   3. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:29

      No, it's a- it's... Okay, so this crash is part of a- a series of crashes that happened in the 1940s.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:36

      So the Roswell?

   5. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:37

      It wasn't Roswell, actually. It was one of the crash sites that's near... It's in New Mexico, but it's not Roswell.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:44

      So there was more than one crash in New Mexico?

   7. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:46

      Yeah, I think... They said-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:47

      Allegedly.

   9. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:47

      They... Allegedly, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       Yeah.

   11. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:48

       They said that there were probably four.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Hmm.

   13. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:50

       Maybe even more. I don't know.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       What a bunch of shitty UFOs, keeping crashing.

   15. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:54

       I know, I know. That's what... Well, they don't believe that they crashed. They- they use that term.

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:58

       Mm-hmm.

   17. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka45:58

       But they don't- they don't think it's a crash. They think that it's... They personally, I'll tell you from a r- a professor's standpoint like, their idea of this is that it's a donation. They call it the donation site.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:11

       Hmm.

   19. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka46:11

       So they think that these were donated materials and they're going to get information, and they do. And um, that's how Tyler was able to create a lot of- of the things that he created in, you know, through... And he would fly these on the space shuttle by the way, uh, these experiments and- and so forth. It was very, very fascinating to me. I mean, I think anybody would be fascinated with it to tell you the truth.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       When you say fly these, you don't mean physical materials?

   21. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka46:37

       So he would have an idea that he would get through these protocols that I told you about.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:42

       Mm-hmm.

   23. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka46:42

       So he practices these protocols and it would be related to something that he would then want to fly in the space shuttle, because a- s- this was during the time the space shuttle was happening, and the space shuttle had anti-gravity environments. And he needed these environments in order to create this. And now this is actually a whole field called biologics. So there's- there's a real field now that, where people are doing these experiments in space and creating things that we can't create here.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Like what?

   25. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka47:14

       Um, medicine. Uh, certain types of metals, uh, s- kind of like ceramic metals. He created something... I actually wrote about this and published about it, totally academic paper so, you know, most general readers would never read it, um, it's because it has academic jargon in it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:33

       Mm-hmm.

   27. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka47:33

       But um, I talked all about it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:35

       Jamie's got something. "Your research is to capitalize on microgravity in space to accelerate drug discovery and development." Um, that was one of the speculations about the type of metals that were retrieved, supposedly, from these crash sites, that these, whatever these metals were, they were layered and that they could only be layered specifically the way they were done in a zero gravity environment.

   29. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka48:02

       Yeah, that's right. They were engineered.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:05

       Right.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Hmm. …

   1. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:00:00

      in the program.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      Hmm.

   3. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:00:01

      Like, seriously long-timers, like their whole lives, live and die by this.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      Hmm.

   5. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:00:06

      Live and die by it. When they die, they die with that information.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:10

      Whoa.

   7. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:00:10

      And it's, it's traumatizing to u- ... Them and their family too.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      I can only imagine.

   9. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:00:14

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

       Yeah. The, the people that worked on Roswell that spoke about it many, many years later, they, they have that sort of same weight that they're carrying around with them. Like Philip Corso and a lot of those other people, when they describe the experience like many, many years later, their ... So, there's a weight.... to the information that they're carrying. It's almost like they want to tell the world, but the world's not going to even believe them and how could they unless they experienced it? And even though they experienced it, they're still baffled by it.

   11. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:00:47

       That's exactly the feeling I got. It was a wait. There was a sense of duty to the American, you know ... To being an American, of course, and patriot. There's a patriotism there. Um, but there was also a sense that these were the true actors in history and we will never know their names.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       (sighs) So, you spent 10 hours at this site?

   13. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:11

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

       And are ... Is there any guidance? Are they describing things to you? Are they telling you what you can and can't do? Is there any-

   15. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:18

       No. It was just me, Gary, and Tyler.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:22

       Mm-hmm.

   17. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:22

       There was no-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       No one else?

   19. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:24

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       So who transported you there?

   21. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:26

       Well, Tyler did because it was a site-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

       So Tyler blindfolded you?

   23. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:30

       Yeah, yeah. He's the person who worked on this site for 40 years.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:35

       So obviously he has permission to do this?

   25. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:01:37

       He does. He had ... In fact, he had to get permission for Gary to go. He had already received permission from me to go and he had to get permission for Gary to go.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:46

       Hmm. And what kind of information are they giving you in terms of what their conclusions are? How many different possibilities that they have surmised? Like, do they have a summary of all the different aspects of this phenomenon-

   27. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:02:04

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:04

       ... that they think it could be or might not be, or?

   29. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:02:08

       So, yes. So the story actually begins there and then I continued to work with Tyler because I'm pretty fascinated by what he does and I'm fascinated about the programs and I'm fascinated by the fact that the true actors of history are unknown. And I want-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       What do you mean by that?
6. 1:15:00 – 1:21:37

   Yes. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      Yes.

   2. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:00

      Yes. Okay, so when I was young, I learned about her and, um, and how, you know, she worked with psilocybin to heal people. And when she died, I think it was in the 1980s, the President of Mexico announced it. So she was actually, so in that culture, it was well known that ... And she called the psilocybin of the mushrooms little saints.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:23

      Hmm. Did you ever read John Marco Allegro's work?

   4. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:27

      No, I haven't.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:28

      Do you know of it?

   6. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:29

      No, I, I probably have read it, you know, think of ... I, I've read a lot of books. So I may have just forgotten. But-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15:35

      John Marco Allegro was an ordained minister-

   8. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:37

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:15:37

      ... who became an agnostic when he started studying theology. And he was one of the people that was studying the Dead Sea Scrolls and-

   10. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:47

       Ah, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:15:47

       ... he studied the Dead Sea Scrolls for 14 years and he wrote The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.

   12. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:51

       Okay, yes, I do know that book.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:15:53

       Yeah.

   14. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:15:53

       Yes, yeah, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:15:54

       And then he wrote, um, th- th- that one got, I think it got bought out by the Catholic Church. And you can get old copies of it, but then it was just re-released a few years back. Uh, but the, th- then he wrote s- something in the, The Christian Myth. I forget what it was. Sacred Mushroom and The Christian Myth. Sacred Mushroom and The Cross, and then there was another one he wrote that he published after that other one was bought out that you can, that's readily available. But this guy studied the Dead Sea Scrolls, which is the oldest version of the Bible that we know of.

   16. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:16:29

       That's right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:16:30

       It's written in Aramaic.

   18. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:16:31

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:16:31

       And the Dead Sea Scrolls was a particularly meticulous transcription. Uh, uh, uh, the way they had it transcribed, this is very bizarre, because it's written on parchment, which is animal skin. So they had to do DNA tests on the various pieces of parchment to make sure that they came from the same piece, because the, the idea that it'd, they'd be from different cows. So they take this parchment skin, they're l- they're laying it out, they do DNA tests on it to make sure it's all from the same f- And then they try to piece together what it is. And n- not all of it is even available. Jamie, chuck me that, uh, behind you to the right. Thank you. And his conclusion after all of this, the, the summary of his conclusion was the entire Christian religion was all about psychedelic experiences and fertility rituals, and that this was what all these stories really meant. And he even connected the word for Christ to an ancient Sumerian word which meant a mushroom covered in God's semen, and that these ancient people believed that when it rained, it was God having an orgasm on the Earth. And that these mushrooms, which if you've ever seen, mushrooms appear after the rain.

   20. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:17:40

       Yes. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:17:40

       They come up out of nowhere.

   22. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:17:41

       Yeah, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:17:42

       And that these mushrooms, these people would eat them, and they would experience God.

   24. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:17:46

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:17:47

       And that they wrote these things down in an oral... Well, first it was an oral tradition for who knows how long, and then they wrote them down and then, you know, it, it gets transcribed to Greek and Latin and English, and it's all-

   26. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:18:00

       And a lot is missing out of those translations.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:18:02

       Yeah. A lot of it's missing even from the ancient Hebrew translation, because the words in ancient Hebrew had numerical value.

   28. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:18:09

       Yes, that's true.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:18:10

       Which is a, it's a very complicated language, where like the word law, love, and the word God have the same numerical value. And numerical value in words is very important to what the meaning of these sentences and what these phrases meant. And we lose a lot of that.

   30. DPDiana Walsh Pasulka1:18:27

       We also lose people's gender through these translations.

Episode duration: 2:17:40