Joe Rogan Experience #2100 - Steven Rinella & Cameron Hanes

1. 0:00 – 2:35

   Bear-claw necklace, reclaimed gold, and hunting-as-jewelry stories

   1. SRSteven Rinella0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. CHCameron Hanes0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) You're good to go.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      All right. Steve Rinella, Cam Hanes, what's happening? Good to see you guys.

   4. SRSteven Rinella0:16

      Yeah, thanks for having me out, man.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      My pleasure. Cam, explain that ridiculous thing around your neck. (laughs)

   6. SRSteven Rinella0:21

      What? What are you talking about?

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      (laughs)

   8. CHCameron Hanes0:24

      (claps) Oh, this?

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      That thing.

   10. CHCameron Hanes0:26

       Oh. Oh.

   11. SRSteven Rinella0:26

       (laughs)

   12. CHCameron Hanes0:28

       What, what cam- where am I? What camera am I on?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Uh, right there.

   14. CHCameron Hanes0:31

       Yeah. So this is, uh, how badass is this? Solid gold mold of-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       (laughs)

   16. CHCameron Hanes0:38

       ... this is my first brown bear I killed with Roy. So they made a mold off this claw. I had this just tanned hide laying around, I'm like, "I gotta, we gotta... I don't know, what's it gonna do, just lay there?" So I'm like, "I gotta have something." And I took it to Skee's jewe- jeweler, which has been in Eugene for 104 years, so it's kind of a cool little story. And they came up with this crazy necklace. So it's... Oh, they wanted me to tell you, it's, uh, it's r- re- uh, what is it? It's not d- not newly mined gold. It's-

   17. SRSteven Rinella1:10

       Recl- oh, reclaimed?

   18. CHCameron Hanes1:11

       Reclaimed, yeah. Yeah.

   19. SRSteven Rinella1:12

       Oh, okay.

   20. CHCameron Hanes1:13

       So they're not ruining the planet to get it.

   21. SRSteven Rinella1:14

       (laughs)

   22. CHCameron Hanes1:15

       So they wanted me to- this is, like, reclaimed gold. But it's solid, and then there's six carats of rubies on there and black diamonds, so.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       So the rubies, if- if people can't see it-

   24. CHCameron Hanes1:23

       If this is a ridiculous thing you're talking about-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Yeah.

   26. CHCameron Hanes1:26

       ... yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Okay.

   28. CHCameron Hanes1:26

       That was it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       Yeah. So the rubies, though-

   30. SRSteven Rinella1:28

       That's a lot of pawn shop wedding rings laid up in there, man.
2. 2:35 – 5:46

   Wedding rings, silicone bands, and the horror of “degloving” injuries

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:35

      You got any jewelry, Rinella? Come on, Steve.

   2. SRSteven Rinella2:37

      Uh-uh, no.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:37

      Nothing?

   4. SRSteven Rinella2:38

      Uh-uh.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      (laughs)

   6. SRSteven Rinella2:39

      I, I don't... No tattoos, no jewelry, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:42

      What is, what is?

   8. SRSteven Rinella2:42

      They'll never... If, if I ever turn up-

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:44

      Do you have a rubber wedding ring?

   10. SRSteven Rinella2:45

       ... dead in the lake, they won't be able to identify me.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:46

       Do you have a rubber wedding ring? Do you wear one of those?

   12. SRSteven Rinella2:48

       Well, I, I went from regular to silicon to n- nothing.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:54

       Yeah?

   14. SRSteven Rinella2:54

       I don't wear one anymore.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:55

       You ever throw it back in?

   16. SRSteven Rinella2:56

       My wife doesn't wear one very often.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:57

       Oh, yeah?

   18. SRSteven Rinella2:58

       Uh-uh. No, don't wear one. Mm-mm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       I'd, I'd yell at my wife.

   20. SRSteven Rinella3:02

       Yeah, but-

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:02

       Where the fuck you going?

   22. SRSteven Rinella3:03

       Well, I know, but I, like-

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:04

       Put that leash on. (laughs)

   24. SRSteven Rinella3:05

       It's not like anyone comes and, it's not like anyone comes and scams on me now, you know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       Right. (laughs)

   26. SRSteven Rinella3:08

       I'm a little beyond that. I just smell like, I smell like a married dude. I don't need that thing.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       (laughs)

   28. CHCameron Hanes3:12

       I get it.

   29. SRSteven Rinella3:13

       You know?

   30. CHCameron Hanes3:13

       I don't know, I just always...
3. 5:46 – 9:20

   Gold teeth, wartime dental gold, and Washington’s infamous dentures

   1. SRSteven Rinella5:46

      When I... I have a tooth that got knocked out, and it's, it's like one of those caps. And one time, we were drinking, and I l- when I was younger, we were drinking and I was trying to open a... There used to be that company that made tequila that had, like, a sombrero for a lid.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:01

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SRSteven Rinella6:02

      And I was opening one of these bottles-... and broke that fake tooth off.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:07

      Oh, no.

   5. SRSteven Rinella6:08

      And all night, I'm going on about how I'm getting a gold.

   6. CHCameron Hanes6:11

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:12

      (laughs)

   8. SRSteven Rinella6:12

      Because it's gone, you know? And all night, I'm, like, making a plan, talking all this until (laughs) I woke up in the morning and looked in the mirror, and I just wanted a white, a regular white tooth back so bad.

   9. CHCameron Hanes6:23

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       (Laughs) Yeah. Those things.

   11. CHCameron Hanes6:24

       There it is.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:24

       So you opened it up with your tooth?

   13. SRSteven Rinella6:26

       Yeah, I broke that tooth, and then, like, got fired up about getting a gold one. And, uh, no, never did it. That'd been the closest thing I had towards jewelry was my gold tooth, but chickened out.

   14. CHCameron Hanes6:35

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:35

       That would've looked sick. Yeah. I thought about a gold tooth for brief moments, generally while drinking. (laughs) Get one of them.

   16. CHCameron Hanes6:43

       They-

   17. SRSteven Rinella6:43

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:44

       They have those where they just put a little diamond on it now.

   19. CHCameron Hanes6:46

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SRSteven Rinella6:46

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:48

       I've seen those.

   22. SRSteven Rinella6:48

       My old man told me that during the war, guys would carry around, uh, dental picks. And he fought World War II. He said during the war, they would carry it around and you would, they would go and get all the... They would get the gold out of Germans' teeth.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:02

       True.

   24. CHCameron Hanes7:03

       (gasps)

   25. SRSteven Rinella7:03

       And save it up in a bag. And there were certain guys who was just into it.

   26. CHCameron Hanes7:06

       Ooh.

   27. SRSteven Rinella7:07

       I remember as a kid I asked him, like, "Hey, would they ever get it from an American?" And he goes, "That'd be a good way to get shot." (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:13

       Yeah.

   29. SRSteven Rinella7:13

       But, but they'd dig it out of there.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:15

       Hmm.
4. 9:20 – 12:32

   Cadaver grafts and knee surgery: what’s in your body now?

   1. SRSteven Rinella9:20

      Having another dude's teeth in your mouth, too, is wild.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:23

      Yeah.

   3. SRSteven Rinella9:23

      I had a cadaver bone in my jaw for a while, and you'd... And you'd get little sp- you know, little pieces of it, and you were always spitting out little pieces of some guy.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:34

      Whoa.

   5. CHCameron Hanes9:34

      Oh.

   6. SRSteven Rinella9:36

      Some other dude, you know.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:36

      You had it for a while? They took it out?

   8. SRSteven Rinella9:38

      Well, no, it just heals up.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:40

      Oh.

   10. SRSteven Rinella9:40

       So they drill a hole in there and they fill it full of cadaver bone.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       Whoa.

   12. SRSteven Rinella9:46

       And I asked who the dude was, you know, they can't figure out who he was.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:49

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CHCameron Hanes9:50

       I have, uh-

   15. SRSteven Rinella9:50

       Put... You're, like, all over your office or whatever, you're like, pfft. Some little chunk of a guy you don't know.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       (laughs) My right knee is a cadaver ACL tendon.

   17. SRSteven Rinella9:58

       Ah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:59

       But it's not, um... It's not anymore. What happens is that your body re-poli- proliferates it.

   19. SRSteven Rinella10:05

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       So i- it just acts as a scaffolding, and then-

   21. SRSteven Rinella10:08

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:08

       ... your body just fills it in with its own tissue. They actually-

   23. SRSteven Rinella10:10

       They ever give you, they ever give you info about the person?

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       No, no. I just tell them, "Get me a Viking."

   25. SRSteven Rinella10:15

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:15

       "Get me some fucking gigantic dude-"

   27. CHCameron Hanes10:17

       Yeah. 'Cause you're up there-

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:18

       "... who's been swinging a battleax his whole life."

   29. SRSteven Rinella10:20

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       The, uh... They actually use the Achilles tendon, though.
5. 12:32 – 19:29

   Veganism, nutrition propaganda, and why epidemiology confuses people

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:32

      Yeah. Poor vegans, man. Boy, they-

   2. SRSteven Rinella12:34

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:34

      You want to talk about people that have been sold billed goods?

   4. SRSteven Rinella12:37

      Not very durable, are they?

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:38

      It's not, it's not just that. It's like, there's so much propaganda that that is good for you, and there's so much evidence that it's not, and this mindset that these folk, fucking people have, where they're just, like, they believe The China Study, they believe meat causes cancer. I've had conversations with people, we try to be rational with them, like, "If meat really caused cancer, do you know that 95% of the people on Earth eat meat?"

   6. SRSteven Rinella13:02

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:02

      And they go, "Well, look at all the cancer." Well, yeah, but look at all the other food they eat.

   8. SRSteven Rinella13:06

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:06

      Do you understand how-

   10. SRSteven Rinella13:07

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:07

       ... epidemiology studies work? Like, when they-

   12. SRSteven Rinella13:09

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       ... you know, when they g- have these arguments, no one ever takes it to this, like, rational conclusion. Like, what, what they, do you know how they work? The epidemiology studies?

   14. SRSteven Rinella13:19

       No.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:19

       When they, when they say, like if they say there's been a correlation between high consumption of red meat and cancer-

   16. SRSteven Rinella13:24

       Oh, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       ... people who eat red meat five times a week are much more likely than pe- what are they eating with it?

   18. SRSteven Rinella13:29

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:30

       They don't-

   20. SRSteven Rinella13:30

       Fries.

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:31

       ... take that into effect 'cause it's not a real study. It's bullshit.

   22. SRSteven Rinella13:34

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:34

       What they're doing is just trying to come up with some biased interpretation of data that makes it seem more likely that meat is killing you.

   24. SRSteven Rinella13:42

       I was trying to explain, uh, correlation, causation, all that-

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:45

       Yeah.

   26. SRSteven Rinella13:45

       ... to my kid the other night. I was telling him about s- stuff like this, like, uh, education levels and divorce rates, right?

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:54

       (laughs)

   28. SRSteven Rinella13:55

       I'm like, no one, no one's gonna untangle what it is, but you can look at these things and see that there's something going on, but no one knows exactly what, right?

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:02

       Yeah.

   30. SRSteven Rinella14:03

       So with the s- stuff like that, it's like, "So did you eat a lot of meat?" "Uh-huh."
6. 19:29 – 24:10

   Do plants ‘feel’? Intelligence in forests, mycelium networks, and moral lines

   1. SRSteven Rinella19:29

      Yeah, but, you know, the, the vegan diet thing, it's just, it's so unfortunate that people have been... It's like, it's such a... I, I get how you could come to this sort of idea where if you just eat vegetables then you're not as responsible for killing, but one of the real problems is, well first of all, there's the real problem of farming, you know? That, es- especially industrial mono-crop agriculture, goddamn, they kill a lot of things to get that crop out. Mm.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:57

      They kill, they kill everything that's in the ground when they're using the combines. They use people to kill groundhogs. They're killing all the varmints and gophers and everything gets fucking killed, right? We all know that. Ground nesting birds, uh, fawns get chewed up. There's a lot of things that happen. But then on top of that, there's emerging evidence that plants have intelligence. That not only do they have intelligence, but they communicate through the mycelium in the ground.

   3. SRSteven Rinella20:24

      Mm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan20:24

      And that (clears throat) they, they share resources, like they allocate resources towards plants that need it more.

   5. SRSteven Rinella20:32

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:32

      There's, there's, there's evidence that they communicate with each other. Like for instance, like, the acacia tree which (clears throat) there's, there's trees in Africa where when giraffes eat them, if they're downwind, the other trees that are downwind will start producing a potent chemical that makes their leaves taste like shit.

   7. SRSteven Rinella20:56

      Mm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:56

      So that they know that they're getting chewed on by, you know, "Oh my god, there's a giraffe in the neighborhood," start tasting like shit.

   9. SRSteven Rinella21:03

      Mm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:03

       And so they release chemicals. I mean, how insane is that?

   11. SRSteven Rinella21:06

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       They, not only is it that, but they have now shown that they can play recordings- Of water. Oh. Okay. ... of insects eating the leaves. And if they play those recordings next to the plant, the plant will start producing those toxic chemicals.

   13. SRSteven Rinella21:23

       Mm-hmm. So-

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:24

       That make them taste bad, so it's-

   15. SRSteven Rinella21:26

       I've read that about willows. I never check to see how like valid it is, but that, that a willow will send root tendrils in the direction of the sound of running water.

   16. JRJoe Rogan21:36

       (clicks tongue) That makes sense. Hm.

   17. SRSteven Rinella21:36

       I don't know, it's cool. Sorry, Joe, I didn't mean to step over you again.

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:39

       Oh, no, no. I was just saying, so it's, it's sound and also you said, before you said it was downwind. Yeah, downwind too. So it's, it's scent and sound. It's, it's a bunch of things that they don't understand-

   19. SRSteven Rinella21:49

       Hm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:49

       ... 'cause they don't have noses. You know, like they don't have ears. Like how, how does the sound of caterpillars eating leaves change the, the chemical structure of these plants? Like how are they knowing, "Okay, time to let loose the poison."

   21. SRSteven Rinella22:04

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:04

       How are they, how are they getting it because they're downwind, but-

   23. SRSteven Rinella22:07

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:07

       ... it gets so bad that a- animals, some animals that try to eat them, they wind up starving to death because they don't wanna eat this stuff 'cause it tastes that bad.

   25. SRSteven Rinella22:16

       Mm. You're, uh, I can see where you're going with this, is that sometime down the road there's gonna be some tough decisions for people who are looking for general-

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:24

       Yeah.

   27. SRSteven Rinella22:24

       ... well, like, uh, not wanting to harm-

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:27

       Yeah.

   29. SRSteven Rinella22:28

       ... creatures.

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:28

       Yeah, if you're looking-
7. 24:10 – 28:30

   Ancient trees, redwoods you can drive through, and tree-sit activism

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:10

      There was a, I was in Scotland recently.

   2. SRSteven Rinella24:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:13

      And they, they had this tree, like this is the oldest tree that, that, you know, is in Europe. And I was like, "How old's this fucking tree?" And they're like, "It's like a 5,000-year-old tree." I'm like, "How is that possible?"

   4. SRSteven Rinella24:24

      Yeah, it's incredible.

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:25

      ... see if you can find that. Like, the oldest-

   6. SRSteven Rinella24:26

      I don't know that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:26

      ... tree in Scotland. It was a crazy, gnarled-up-looking, fucked-up tree. I was like, "How old?" I'm- I might be wrong with the age, but it was crazy old.

   8. SRSteven Rinella24:34

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:34

      And I was like, "Whoa." Like, "How do you know? How do you know how old this is?" When you go to Europe, Scotland was amazing. I took this trip with my wife, and we went to visit these sites where they have these stone circles that are older than Stonehenge.

   10. SRSteven Rinella24:48

       Hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:48

       And they're, like, right in front of this dude's house.

   12. CHCameron Hanes24:50

       (laughs)

   13. SRSteven Rinella24:51

       (laughs) Nice.

   14. JRJoe Rogan24:51

       Like, this dude has a house, and then there's a small street, like a two-lane street, 5,000 years old.

   15. CHCameron Hanes24:57

       (laughs)

   16. SRSteven Rinella24:57

       Yeah, 5,000. A huge tree.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:00

       Yeah.

   18. CHCameron Hanes25:00

       That's not what Google said it was.

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:02

       Google said it was two to 3,000 years old?

   20. CHCameron Hanes25:04

       Yeah.

   21. SRSteven Rinella25:04

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:04

       Okay, so the sign says 3,000. Well, back when they made that sign, what kind of fucking carbon dating did they have, you know?

   23. SRSteven Rinella25:10

       Some dude looked-

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:11

       Look at how old that sign is.

   25. SRSteven Rinella25:11

       ... he goes, some dude said, "Man, that tree must be 5,000 years old. Put that on the sign."

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       Look at the f- image of it. That's what it looked like. See the image of it to the right, Jamie?

   27. SRSteven Rinella25:18

       Yeah, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:18

       To the l- uh, no, slightly to the left of that. Yeah, that's it, that's it. That's exactly what it looked like.

   29. SRSteven Rinella25:24

       Hm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       So that one's 1,000-year-old, North Downs in Surrey. So that's in England.
8. 28:30 – 32:35

   The spiritual hook of hunting: Rogan’s first mule deer and lifelong obsession

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:30

      You know, the one thing that I never really thought of until I started hunting was the spiritual aspect to hunting. That's ... It's in ... It's a part of it, that it's almost indisputable when you experience it, like when you first experience it. When you first start eating an animal that you've ... Like, the first time you ever took me hunting when we were in Montana.

   2. SRSteven Rinella28:55

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:55

      And I remember when I was eating that mule deer and we were sitting over the fire, and I was like, "This is so different than any meal I've ever had in my life. It's so different. I feel so connected to this animal. I know how difficult it was to do this. I know how insane their life is, that this is this wild creature that is 100% gonna die soon, no matter what. If it's next year or the year after or the year after that, it doesn't have much time left. And if you can move in while, you know ... dip your toe into the wild and extract that thing out," to me, that was like, "Oh, this is the best way to eat meat ever. This is 20, 30 times better-"

   4. SRSteven Rinella29:38

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:38

      "... than just getting a steak from a store." I remember when we were sitting around the fire, and you're like, "What are you thinking?" I'm like, "I'm doing this forever."

   6. CHCameron Hanes29:44

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:45

      Do you remember that?

   8. SRSteven Rinella29:45

      Yeah. (laughs)

   9. CHCameron Hanes29:46

      What, what year was that?

   10. JRJoe Rogan29:46

       I don't know.

   11. SRSteven Rinella29:47

       I don't remember that specific conversation.

   12. JRJoe Rogan29:48

       That was-

   13. SRSteven Rinella29:48

       That was a long time ago.

   14. JRJoe Rogan29:49

       ... 12 years ago.

   15. SRSteven Rinella29:49

       Oh, was it really? I was gonna say 10 years ago, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan29:51

       12 years ago.

   17. CHCameron Hanes29:51

       So-

   18. JRJoe Rogan29:51

       2012.

   19. CHCameron Hanes29:52

       Okay, and then you bow hunted in 2014?

   20. JRJoe Rogan29:54

       Yes.

   21. CHCameron Hanes29:55

       Okay. So you, so did you kill, is-

   22. JRJoe Rogan29:56

       I have two people in this room that introduced me to hunting, and that's our Montana mule deer right there.

   23. CHCameron Hanes30:02

       Yeah, that's him.

   24. SRSteven Rinella30:02

       That's him.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:03

       That's him. That's the one we shot.

   26. SRSteven Rinella30:03

       Someone lost the nose bones.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:06

       Oh, the ones out there?

   28. CHCameron Hanes30:07

       Yeah.

   29. SRSteven Rinella30:07

       Well, he's missing his too.

   30. JRJoe Rogan30:08

       Yeah.
9. 32:35 – 50:45

   Bowhunting pressure, discipline, and ‘Shot IQ’ mental control

   1. JRJoe Rogan32:35

      It's unfortunate, but I think, you know, there's no way to teach someone that. There's no way to really, like, get it into their head how hard it is unless they're in the field and they're drawing on an animal and then they realize, like, unless... There's some ways to mitigate that, like, you've had Joel Turner on, which I, I, you have. You've had him on, right?

   2. SRSteven Rinella32:55

      No, uh-uh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:55

      You never had Joel Turner on?

   4. SRSteven Rinella32:56

      No.

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:56

      The Shot IQ guy?

   6. SRSteven Rinella32:57

      No, I'd like to but never did, yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:58

      Oh, I gotta connect you. Do, do you-

   8. SRSteven Rinella33:00

      No.

   9. JRJoe Rogan33:00

      ... have his number? Do you...

   10. SRSteven Rinella33:01

       No, but I'm familiar with that. I've, he's been recommended by many people and guys I work with are familiar, but I haven't had him on.

   11. JRJoe Rogan33:07

       He's absolutely got-

   12. SRSteven Rinella33:09

       And you've recommended him to me.

   13. JRJoe Rogan33:10

       Yes.

   14. SRSteven Rinella33:10

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan33:11

       He's got a, a r- there's a thing that happens when you're in a high-pressure situation that I recognize from martial arts and from a lot of other things, where you do not have full control of your faculties.

   16. SRSteven Rinella33:22

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan33:23

       And your body is operating on anxiety and, and adrenaline. And when it's completely unique, like a bow hunting thing, where you have hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of preparation and thinking about it for seconds of action, and it boils down to this one movement where you're like, "Yikes." If you don't have a strategy for managing your mental state while that's happening-

   18. SRSteven Rinella33:48

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan33:48

       ... the odds of you flinching or moving or doing something stupid are really, really, really high. And Joel Turner went through that for, like, fucking 15 years. He, like, couldn't kill an elk-

   20. SRSteven Rinella34:00

       Struggled with it himself.

   21. JRJoe Rogan34:01

       He was always choking.

   22. SRSteven Rinella34:02

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan34:02

       And then when he became a SWAT instructor, when he was, you know, he's on a SWAT team, so he, he's liter- like, he was telling me this one story where he had to shoot this guy that was holding a young girl hostage. And, like, I think it was with a weapon, I forget what, ma- a knife or something. And so he has a headshot while this guy is holding onto a girl. And he had to figure out, like, what are the, uh, what is the mental process that allows people to flinch and panic during these moments? And he realized it's the difference between open loop systems and closed loop systems. And the open loop system is something like swinging a baseball bat. Like, once you start swinging, you're just swinging.

   24. SRSteven Rinella34:46

       Hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:46

       You're just, "Wah!" You know, you're swinging. And unfortunately, with a lot of people, that is the initial reaction. They just go. Like-

   26. SRSteven Rinella34:54

       Yeah, I get, like, the final thought you have is that you're gonna swing the bat.

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:58

       Yeah, go! Yeah.

   28. SRSteven Rinella34:59

       I, I don't know if a professional, I don't know if a, like, friend of mine is a, you know, real home run hitter. I don't know if he would agree, but in my mind, yeah, it's like, you've decided to swing it and everything else is just nothing. (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan35:09

       Well, you're not gonna stop it in the middle of the swing.

   30. SRSteven Rinella35:11

       Yeah, and you're not, you're not thinking about, "Oh, I'm gonna go a little higher, little lower."
10. 50:45 – 55:25

    Gear talk: packing mistakes, whisker biscuits, fletching, and fish bows

    1. JRJoe Rogan50:45

       Like, there's so much going on just in your yard, when just shooting at a target. There's so much mental and physical, and there's so many things that have to align. Like, I have a checklist that I have on my phone, that before I go hunting, like when I'm on the plane flying to wherever I'm going, I look at my notes on my phone and I go over my checklist. And I bounce it around in my head.

    2. SRSteven Rinella51:10

       It's your process stuff.

    3. JRJoe Rogan51:10

       Yeah, I have a, a shot process.

    4. SRSteven Rinella51:11

       Not like boots, socks, all that. (laughs)

    5. CHCameron Hanes51:13

       (laughs)

    6. JRJoe Rogan51:13

       No, no, no, no, no. I got all that. That, that I'm terrible with too. I just stuff everything in there. I'm like, "I think I got it all in there." Um, I really need to organize it. Like, if I was gonna go on like one of those-

    7. CHCameron Hanes51:23

       Then you take way more than you need.

    8. JRJoe Rogan51:24

       100%. If I was gonna go on like one of those, uh, backpacking mountain hunts where you're carrying your whole camp on your back-

    9. SRSteven Rinella51:29

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JRJoe Rogan51:29

        ... and you're walking in for fucking 20 miles, I'd be the guy that has like the 80-pound pack.

    11. SRSteven Rinella51:34

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan51:34

        Because I'm throwing extra batteries and extra broad heads in case that happens, and-

    13. SRSteven Rinella51:38

        Hiding stuff in the bushes on your way up. (laughs)

    14. JRJoe Rogan51:40

        Two kni- two knives just in case. You know, meanwhile like Adam Greentree has been doing it forever. He- that motherfucker saws his toothbrushes in half-

    15. SRSteven Rinella51:47

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan51:47

        ... to cut weight.

    17. SRSteven Rinella51:48

        You would-

    18. JRJoe Rogan51:48

        He's got it down to a science.

    19. CHCameron Hanes51:49

        You would do that one time.

    20. JRJoe Rogan51:50

        One time.

    21. SRSteven Rinella51:51

        (laughs)

    22. JRJoe Rogan51:51

        Yeah, exactly, bro.

    23. CHCameron Hanes51:52

        That's how you learn that. E- everybody's learned, learned that.

    24. JRJoe Rogan51:55

        So my process for packing is just fucking shove it all in there, and mostly likely I. I always have two range finders and two binos in case I br- drop something, and you know. Remember that time we were hunting in Canada and I broke my rest?

    25. SRSteven Rinella52:08

        I do.

    26. JRJoe Rogan52:08

        My rest snapped.

    27. SRSteven Rinella52:09

        I do.

    28. JRJoe Rogan52:09

        But I had a whisker biscuit. I was ready. I was like, "A-ha!"

    29. CHCameron Hanes52:13

        He was-

    30. SRSteven Rinella52:13

        Oh, yeah, that's good.
11. 55:25 – 1:02:19

    Bass, carp, public-water dock fights, and invasive species consequences

    1. JRJoe Rogan55:25

       Isn't it wild that carp are, like, prized in Europe?

    2. SRSteven Rinella55:28

       I know. It doesn't make any sense.

    3. JRJoe Rogan55:29

       They, like, they go out of their way.

    4. SRSteven Rinella55:30

       I shouldn't say it doesn't make any sense that they didn't, but I don't know where we went. I don't know how we went so wrong.

    5. JRJoe Rogan55:36

       Yeah. That's weird, right?

    6. SRSteven Rinella55:36

       They put them all over, thinking everybody's going to eat them all the time (laughs) .

    7. CHCameron Hanes55:39

       Yeah.

    8. SRSteven Rinella55:39

       It just, like, did not take off.

    9. JRJoe Rogan55:41

       Well, they ruin lakes.

    10. SRSteven Rinella55:42

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan55:42

        The ... Where I live, on Lake Austin, um, there's a buddy of mine who's one of my neighbors who's a, a fishermen. And, uh, he said, "Man, you should've been here before they brought carp."

    12. SRSteven Rinella55:51

        Oh.

    13. JRJoe Rogan55:52

        He goes, "There was all sorts of vegetation in here-"

    14. SRSteven Rinella55:54

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan55:54

        "... and the bass were everywhere." But now, he goes, "If you can get a camera and look at the bottom of this lake, it looks like the bottom of a swimming pool." There's fucking nothing there.

    16. SRSteven Rinella56:01

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan56:01

        Just the carp being everything.

    18. SRSteven Rinella56:01

        No, it's terrible, man. But the fact that it was intentional ...

    19. JRJoe Rogan56:04

        Yeah.

    20. SRSteven Rinella56:04

        There's so many nonnative, there's so many invasive species that were unintentional. But the fact that for the, for the most part, the common carp was ... they were doing everybody a favor.

    21. JRJoe Rogan56:15

        I think they thought they were doing a favor for rich people on Lake Austin, 'cause I think they wanted people to have less vegetation so they could take their boats out.

    22. SRSteven Rinella56:22

        Got it.

    23. CHCameron Hanes56:23

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JRJoe Rogan56:23

        That's what I think.

    25. SRSteven Rinella56:23

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan56:24

        And that's what he thinks, too. I mean, I got this from him.

    27. SRSteven Rinella56:26

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan56:26

        He's like, "I think they just wanted to clean up the vegetation 'cause it was unsightly."

    29. SRSteven Rinella56:30

        Hmm.

    30. JRJoe Rogan56:30

        He goes, "And they fucked this place up." 'Cause he was, uh, on a boat and the ... When I, when I met him, he was casting under my dock, you know? And, uh, I went out there and I was like, "What's going on, man?"
12. 1:02:19 – 1:12:40

    Archery form debates and release styles: what ‘works’ vs what’s ‘correct’

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

       (laughs)

    2. CHCameron Hanes1:02:19

       ... I'm pretty sure that's how I would think, you know. Uh, I was thinking... Uh, I was thinking about your shot. You know why I think that that helps when you do the elbow? Because when you get that elbow right, you're pulling hard against that back wall.

    3. SRSteven Rinella1:02:32

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CHCameron Hanes1:02:32

       A lot of people creep on their shot.

    5. SRSteven Rinella1:02:35

       Mm-hmm.

    6. CHCameron Hanes1:02:36

       Like, they'll get... They'll aim and it's... Everything's going good, they're pulling hard. And then as they're aiming, they're kind of relaxing.

    7. SRSteven Rinella1:02:41

       Oh. Mm.

    8. CHCameron Hanes1:02:42

       And, and then that cam is kind of rolling over.

    9. SRSteven Rinella1:02:44

       Mm-hmm.

    10. CHCameron Hanes1:02:44

        It's called creeping. That'll throw off your shot. So, I think when you think of that elbow consciously, it makes you think of pulling hard against that wall, which that's where the bow performs best.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:02:53

        Kyle Douglas pulls so hard-

    12. SRSteven Rinella1:02:55

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:02:55

        ... that he's made bows break.

    14. CHCameron Hanes1:02:57

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:02:57

        He's broken bows. Like in co-

    16. SRSteven Rinella1:02:59

        Like, pulling into the back wall.

    17. CHCameron Hanes1:03:00

        Uh-huh.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:03:00

        Yeah, yeah. Pulling hard.

    19. SRSteven Rinella1:03:01

        I've never thought about what you're saying, but it makes good sense.

    20. CHCameron Hanes1:03:03

        Mm-hmm. I think that's why it helps you.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:03:05

        Kyle Douglas, who's a fucking... You know, he's like one of the best-

    22. SRSteven Rinella1:03:08

        Sitting here now trying to picture it, but yeah.

    23. CHCameron Hanes1:03:09

        (laughs)

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:03:09

        Yeah, I, I changed my shot quite a bit when I started pulling really hard against the wall.

    25. SRSteven Rinella1:03:14

        Hmm.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:03:14

        Really hard. You know, I pull fucking hard. I have that locked in. And, um, it also changed when I stopped using a resistance, uh, a tension, uh, release.

    27. SRSteven Rinella1:03:23

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:03:24

        'Cause Dudley had me on, uh, what's called a Silverback, which is, I think, one of the best methods for learning how to shoot. Because you have a safety, you pull, and then the... It's all tension-based. So, when you have the safety on, you could pull it hard. And then when you release the safety, you just pull a little more and it goes off. And you could set it to, like, two, three pounds, whatever the amount of difference.

    29. SRSteven Rinella1:03:46

        Yeah.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:46

        So, like, say if you have a 70-pound bow, you set it to 72-pound or whatever it is at, at, you know, when you're at, um, you know, full draw. Whatever the, you know, the drop-off is. So, they have this resistance setting where you can... You, you tweak it in your yard, at, like, you know, five yards where you're right in front of the target. And you get it to the point where it's at the back wall, and then you just pull a little more and it snaps and breaks. And it makes for a perfect release, and I used that forever. But then when I really started pulling hard in the back wall, I was making it go off-

Episode duration: 3:25:28