Joe Rogan Experience #2114 - Zack Snyder

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. ZSZack Snyder0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) We're up. What's going on, man? How are you?

   3. ZSZack Snyder0:14

      I'm good. I'm-

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Welcome aboard. Thank you for being here.

   5. ZSZack Snyder0:16

      No, thanks for having me.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      My pleasure. You, you made two of my all-time favorite movies.

   7. ZSZack Snyder0:22

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      The Watchmen-

   9. ZSZack Snyder0:23

      Okay.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       ... which I fucking love.

   11. ZSZack Snyder0:24

       Okay, awesome.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       And 300.

   13. ZSZack Snyder0:26

       Okay, awesome.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       Those are two ... I have like a top 20 list, I've never like formally put together a top 20 list, but those are in there-

   15. ZSZack Snyder0:32

       Oh, that's cool.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       ... for sure.

   17. ZSZack Snyder0:32

       Well, uh, first of all, I appreciate that 'cause, uh, you know, 300 was a complete labor of love and an insane ... Like, you know, 300 was ... I wa- I, I was a Frank Miller fan for a long time, right? And I, I thought the fr- I thought I would do another. I thought I would do Dark Knight Returns, frankly. That was the movie I wanted. I still wanna do it. I, I always tell everyone, like, Dark Knight Returns. If I could do Dark Knight Returns, I'd be done with comic book movies.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Really?

   19. ZSZack Snyder1:00

       'Cause ... Well, because, like, if you've done Watchmen. Oh, sorry, I'm banging the mic.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       That's okay.

   21. ZSZack Snyder1:04

       If, if, if you do Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns, like, for me, your g- your g- your legacy is set.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Mm-hmm.

   23. ZSZack Snyder1:12

       So, like Batman v Superman literally steals a lot of Dark Knight Returns. I'm not gonna say it didn't, it did. But it's still not Dark Knight Returns, so-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Hm.

   25. ZSZack Snyder1:22

       ... I think that's still out there, but I always ... You know, for a long time, I had that. I had 300, like, on my coffee table at my house when I was making TV commercials, you know, and I'd have my friends over. I'd be like, "I'm gonna make this one day. It's gonna look exactly like this comic book."

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       (laughs)

   27. ZSZack Snyder1:36

       And they'd be like, "Yeah, yeah." You're- (laughs) "Sure it is." And, uh, yeah, I was having a, a general meeting with Gianni Nunnari, who was one of the producers, and he was asking me about what I like, and he had that graphic novel in his office.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       Oh, wow.

   29. ZSZack Snyder1:52

       Like, on his table, and I went, "Well, okay, you know what? If I could do anything, that book right there, I would make that." And he goes, "Well, what do you mean? How would you make it?" And I literally just opened it up, and I go, "We'd make ... We'd film this. We'd film these pictures. It would look like this." And he goes, "Okay, that's cool. Like, so you're saying you would just shoot the movie and it would look like this graphic novel?" I go, "That's what I'm saying." And I think ... And that's what ... But, but at the time, we couldn't sell it. We tried. We went around town with it. We tried to ... I literally ... We went to all the studios. Um, you know, they were all kind of, um, kind of like, "Yeah, sword and sandals? Eh."

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:34

       Wasn't it the same time that Troy was being made?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   He's the freak of…

   1. ZSZack Snyder15:00

      gonna be better. Like he-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      He's the freak of all freaks.

   3. ZSZack Snyder15:02

      Yeah. Like he, just like the way his muscles attach-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      Yeah.

   5. ZSZack Snyder15:04

      ... is like crazy. Like you can't.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:06

      Well, he was probably one of the strongest bodybuilders ever.

   7. ZSZack Snyder15:09

      Unbelievably strong.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      And that's part of the, the reason why he looked the way he looked. He didn't look just big. He looked super powerful. Just like preposterously powerful.

   9. ZSZack Snyder15:18

      Well, also the thing about Ronnie Coleman, like, you know, he ... You see like guys that are s- just incredibly swole, where they can't ... Like their muscle bound. Like they can't-

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:26

       Mm-hmm.

   11. ZSZack Snyder15:26

       And he could like always just like, he could just like touch his, like back of his head.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Look at him.

   13. ZSZack Snyder15:30

       Just-

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Look at him back in his prime, dude.

   15. ZSZack Snyder15:31

       ... unbelievable. Unbelievable.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       Look at that picture.

   17. ZSZack Snyder15:33

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:33

       That is so insane.

   19. ZSZack Snyder15:34

       Yeah. It's ... Alessandro, um, was in a competition with him, Night of the Champions, I think, in San Francisco, and he said like, he goes, "I come from Italy. I like, I, I'm in my first competi- I like pull a card and I'm like, realize like, I'm next to Co- Ronnie Coleman and me." I'm like, he's like, "Great. This is fucking perfect."

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:52

       (laughs)

   21. ZSZack Snyder15:52

       And he goes like, "The guy ..." You know, like how bodybuilders, like the whole thing is about your skin being super thin, so everything like shows.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:59

       Yeah.

   23. ZSZack Snyder15:59

       He goes, and he, he goes, "I saw him backstage, and I thought, 'You know what? The skin's like not there. It's not gonna happen.'" He goes, "But then like, you know, he like ... so much muscle. He's like pulls, and it's just like ..." (imitates straining) He's like, "Oh my God. Like where, how is it possible that the skin just can't ... the muscle's so thick, it just like pushes all the-"

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       It stretches all the skin out.

   25. ZSZack Snyder16:20

       "You see all the striations and everything, like you'd-"

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:22

       Yeah.

   27. ZSZack Snyder16:22

       "... do, do..." With him just relaxing, like at backstage, he thought, "Ah, I, you know, I'm more ripped than him." But then like, he's like, "No way."

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       It's such a weird sport because they're literally on death's door.

   29. ZSZack Snyder16:31

       Oh, literally. Literally.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       They dehydrate themselves to the point where they have kidney failure almost.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah. …

   1. ZSZack Snyder30:00

      that ... There's a part where, um, Sofia's character says, like, that ... They basically say, "They encouraged me to find a lover in the military academy." Because when the politics of war became too abstract, like, "Okay, take that beach," or, like, "Climb that mountain." Y- a lot of times, you know, a soldier's like, "Wh- why?" Like, there's no why. But, like, if you're ... But if you have a lover who's next to you, who's-... your life. And if they get killed or they're in danger, you're, you get, you know-

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:34

      Yeah.

   3. ZSZack Snyder30:35

      ... you're gonna be back on the-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:36

      It's different.

   5. ZSZack Snyder30:36

      You're back on it, yeah. And I think that it's an interesting... We don't, of course, in our modern society, we don't play with that aspect of, you know, in war. We try not to anyway. We seem not to. But you know, like, with using f- the relationship to create a bond. So it, it's an int- I mean, like, you know, there's-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:56

      There's kind of-

   7. ZSZack Snyder30:56

      ... there's camaraderie, brotherhood.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:58

      Sure.

   9. ZSZack Snyder30:58

      Of course. But that-

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       But they've replaced that-

   11. ZSZack Snyder31:00

       ... it's extreme.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       ... aspect of it with technology.

   13. ZSZack Snyder31:02

       Yeah, a little bit. Which-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       Yeah. Which is interesting, because-

   15. ZSZack Snyder31:04

       And maybe that's, maybe that's good, but-

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       Maybe it is good.

   17. ZSZack Snyder31:07

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:07

       But I mean, I could imagine a world in the future where things go totally sideways, where we go back to that.

   19. ZSZack Snyder31:11

       Yeah. Absolutely. We'll make a movie about it. That sounds good.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       (laughs) I mean, that's, that is a possible future dystopian movie.

   21. ZSZack Snyder31:18

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       Like, in a new Sparta. The Spartas of the, you know, 2059.

   23. ZSZack Snyder31:22

       Well, uh, as soon as, like, you know, what, what is that Einstein thing? You know, if World War III is fought with nuclear weapons, World War IV will be fought with rocks? (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       Yeah.

   25. ZSZack Snyder31:29

       Sti- sticks and rocks, you know? So it's like a-

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:31

       Yeah. Well, if it's world war that does it, it's probably gonna wipe out the whole race. But if it's something else, there, there could be a, th- uh, like, everyone thinks of dystopia as being something man-created, which is real possible. But it's also possible we get hit by an asteroid.

   27. ZSZack Snyder31:44

       Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       That's more possible, I think. That's, that's more likely. I think, I think we could fuck up and nuke each other, but it's probably not gonna happen. 'Cause people have been really good about it since 1947.

   29. ZSZack Snyder31:55

       Yeah, yeah, yeah (laughs) . They've been pretty-

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:57

       It's nice. Congra- thank you everybody-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Oh, that's cool. …

   1. ZSZack Snyder45:00

      now she's like every e- every search engine is like hand billed pottery, like glazing, firing kilns-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:08

      Oh, that's cool.

   3. ZSZack Snyder45:09

      F- so yeah, so I have like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      Much more productive.

   5. ZSZack Snyder45:10

      It's mu- ... Well, by the way, I get something at the end. Like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      And you feel better.

   7. ZSZack Snyder45:13

      I feel so (laughs) much better. (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      Dude the feelings that you get when you play video games-

   9. ZSZack Snyder45:17

      It's-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:17

       ... for 12 hours in a row. You feel terrible when it's over.

   11. ZSZack Snyder45:19

       You feel sick to your stomach. It's literally true. Like in ... You have something good happen and you're like, "Yeah!" Like, I'm like, "Fuck yes." And my wi- ... I look over and my wife is, like, in the doorway going like ...

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:30

       What's wrong with you?

   13. ZSZack Snyder45:30

       "Are you serious right now?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:31

       You're a grown-ass man.

   15. ZSZack Snyder45:32

       "Should you not be making a movie right now-"

   16. JRJoe Rogan45:34

       (laughs)

   17. ZSZack Snyder45:35

       "... or, like, writing something or doing something?"

   18. JRJoe Rogan45:37

       Well, it's important for people to know-

   19. ZSZack Snyder45:39

       Like, are you serious?

   20. JRJoe Rogan45:39

       ... that even people who are successful movie makers are still gonna get addicted to those goddamn things.

   21. ZSZack Snyder45:44

       No.

   22. JRJoe Rogan45:44

       They're heroin.

   23. ZSZack Snyder45:45

       They're too good.

   24. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       They're so good.

   25. ZSZack Snyder45:46

       They're so well-made.

   26. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       We had a giant Quake problem. And, uh, I had a giant Quake problem for years and I quit. And I quit cold turkey, when I realized it was, like, just ... I was playing eight, 10 hours a day.

   27. ZSZack Snyder45:57

       You can't see the hours.

   28. JRJoe Rogan45:59

       Yeah.

   29. ZSZack Snyder45:59

       That's what does it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan45:59

       They fly by.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:04:41

   Right. …

   1. ZSZack Snyder1:00:00

      no... There was no thing I hadn't seen, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      Right.

   3. ZSZack Snyder1:00:03

      It wasn't like I stepped onto set like, "Oh, I'm a first time director." Everyone's like, "Oh, this guy's a first time director." Like, "What's his..." You know, "What's he gonna say?" And I'd be like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      Right.

   5. ZSZack Snyder1:00:11

      There... There was like... The tools were my tools, you know what I mean? Like, I was very comfortable with the tool set that I had in front of me.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

      Mm-hmm.

   7. ZSZack Snyder1:00:20

      Like, more so than I probably should've been. You know, I remember Matt Lionetti, who was the DP of Dawn of the Dead, that was my first movie, was like halfway through the thing, he's like-... you know, you know what you're doing. Like, you know (laughs) ... you know what I mean? Like, you know what you're doing. Like, he goes, "They can't fire you now." Because, like, we were halfway through. 'Cause, like, I was so diligent, like, on my first movie. I was so scared. You know? Scott Stuber, who, um, was the executive at Netflix, who was my executive on, uh, Army of the Dead, he was the one that hired me to do Dawn. And I was so... I wanted to do such a, like... I wanted to be so conscientious, and I was so scared of, like, going overbudget and not nailing it and making sure it was cool and all that, um, that, like, Matt Lionetti at one point was like, "Look, man, like, you gotta just... Fuck it. You know? You- you're... it's your... Make it cool now. Don't give a fuck. Just make it c-... Do what you think." And it was such great advice, because I think the movie's edge and all the coolness in the movie, and the man comes around and all the, like, weirdness, the whole, like, montage with the Richard Cheese song in the middle, that was all just me going, "All right, good. Thanks, Matt. I'm gonna just go." And he goes, "Good," 'cause like... you know, because otherwise he goes, "You're just gonna make a movie that this zombie movie's gonna disappear."

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

      Hmm.

   9. ZSZack Snyder1:01:42

      You know? Unless you fucking...

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Add your sauce.

   11. ZSZack Snyder1:01:44

       Yeah, go... You gotta add your sauce.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:46

       Yeah.

   13. ZSZack Snyder1:01:46

       'Cause he goes... otherwise it's like, "Look, another zombie movie," like, who cares?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       Right.

   15. ZSZack Snyder1:01:49

       Like, he goes, "You..." he goes, "I know you know what's cool."

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:53

       Well, you made it fun.

   17. ZSZack Snyder1:01:54

       A- a- and I think that that was the whole thing. For me, it was like, how do you make a B movie that's self-aware that it's a B movie, right?

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:02

       Hmm.

   19. ZSZack Snyder1:02:03

       And in that self-awareness, it lets you off the hook to enjoy it, because you can still be smart. Like, you deconstructed the genre. You... 'cause, like, I've always been fascinated with genre and the deconstruction of genre. Like, I'm a genre filmmaker. I always say to everybody, like, people are like, "What kind of fil-"... I'm a genre filmmaker, like, and that is to say that, like, in genre though, you can explore, like, philosophy, you can explore, um, mythology especially, which is like... Myth is, like, my main... Like, we make myth, modern myth. Movies are modern myth. Superhero movies are modern myth. Like, is it not the same when you say... Like, we have Superman, right? And Batman or whatever. Are they not the mythic answer to the modern, a lot of modern questions about, like, how we should live? You know, like, you say, "Superman," is he not an, like, an invention, a 20th century invention that says to us, like, all the fucking shit that we run up against, whether it be war or, like, class struggle, or whether it be, you know, uh, you know, inter-, um, relationships between different countries. Does Superman not appear in answer to us primitive brains trying to figure out what the f-... where we are? Like, you make a guy like Superman so he can answer some of those questions. He can represent a point of view that is not helpless in the face of the insanity that is, like, you know, the, the problems of the 20th century. And I think... and Batman in the same way. He's an a- answer to, like, urban... What is urban? The urban jungle needs a myth, you know?

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:03:46

       Hmm.

   21. ZSZack Snyder1:03:46

       Just like the ancient jungle needed a myth or the ancient... you know, those all... Like, in those days we'd say, like, "Why is the volcano erupting?" Right? (laughs) But now we say... 'Cause we didn't know, you know? We're just like, "I guess it's... the gods are mad," you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:02

       Right.

   23. ZSZack Snyder1:04:02

       And s-... but now we have, th-... now the problem is like, "Why am I... (laughs) why do I feel helpless in the face of technology or whatever?"

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:10

       Right.

   25. ZSZack Snyder1:04:10

       You know? So we need an answer... we need an additional answer, and I think that's what... and that's what I've always... and I feel like genre has allowed me to make those comments, you know?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:18

       Mm-hmm.

   27. ZSZack Snyder1:04:19

       And I think... and it... you know, look, the funny thing about, you know, m-... what I always find interesting, you know, the- the- the thing that I always find fascinating about sort of the movies I've made and, and how they've landed on pop culture is that like... I remember, like, in the last article it was like, the- the-... it said, "Zack Snyder, love him or hate him," right? Like.

Episode duration: 2:11:45