Joe Rogan Experience #2116 - Kevin James

1. 0:00 – 1:44

   Old friends, old clubs: ‘Shimmy’ and the early NYC comedy years

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

   4. NANarrator0:10

      (instrumental music)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Let's go, Shimmy. Let's go, Shimmy. Shimmy, Shimmy, Shimmy. Most people don't know about Shimmy. Mm-mm. They don't know about your alter ego. No. Well, yeah, you were the one who brought it out of me. (laughs) You were, right? Well, we would do shows, we would do shows in New York and you would go full Shimmy. (laughs) I'd be on the side of the (laughs) side of the stage yelling out, "Shimmy!" Well, when we first started... By the way, we, we did the Joe Rogan Experience 30 years ago, right? Yeah. It just wasn't millions of people. Just hanging out. Not... Let's... Exactly. Just playing pool. (laughs) Um, you, you... I remember Sussman brought you into town. You started at Nick's? Was it Nick's or... I started at Stitches in Boston. Stitches. And then, uh, I was like two years in when I met you, and then, uh, I think we met at East Side. Mm-hmm. Which was awesome. Great club. What a great club. What a great club that was. I was just there. Shout out to Richie Mantervini. Yes. My man. He, he was... It was, uh, the greatest, the greatest place to go. I remember, uh, it would be a line around the block, two shows like on a Wednesday night. It was insane- Yeah. ... comedy then. That place was just jammed. The golden age of comedy at the time. 1990? Yes. Oh my God, it was incredible back then. '91-ish. I started at '89. I think I met you in... What is it? '90- '91 maybe? '90, '91. Somewhere around there. Yeah, somewhere in there. Uh, and I was, you know, I was following everybody. That was my thing. Like I, I was being the standup comedian with the, you know, the jacket sleeves pushed up and the- (laughs) ... the bolo tie.

2. 1:44 – 5:47

   Confidence vs. fear on stage: audiences sense everything

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:44

      You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. (laughs) Just... Yeah. I was just that straight... And you came into town and we were like, "Who is this dude?" Like, you just didn't care about anything. And it was like, you've always remained the same and it was just incredible to watch. We were like, "Whoa! He just doesn't care." And that's what you were... You, you would work with me on that. You would be like, "Brother, you can't be like you're handing out a platter of food for these pe..." Like, "Do what you wanna do." And I was like, "I just gotta get good. Yeah, I gotta wrap my head around that. You're right." You know? (laughs) I just tried to... (laughs) I would, I would, I would just try to make the audience so happy. Like, "Stop it, stop it." And, "You gotta let go," and you'd get me going crazy. (laughs) I'd get all fired up there. I'd be like yelling at people. They'd be like, "Whoa!" (laughs) It's like, "All right, maybe we bring it back a little bit," but it was different, man. It really was. It was... It, it really taught me to, mo- most of all to be comfortable in front of audience and not care about them. You know, it's... I still... I literally battle with it to this day- Yeah. ... that anxiety of, "Oh gosh, I get nervous and I, I start overthinking things." So, um, but it really helped me to say like, "Just do what you do." And, and it's almost like the... 'Cause the audience is like a dog, right? They'll, they, they sense fear. You know, they sense- 100%. Yeah. They're animals. Yes. Just like we are. Yes. We're all animals. That's right. And it's like they know when you know, and if you're comfortable, even if you're faking it, they'll go with you. You do a joke and you're confident, they'll laugh just because they think it's funny, you know. They look around and everybody's like, "Oh, it must be funny 'cause he's just got confidence about it." And you had that confidence always, man. You were always insanely intense and just never looked back, and way to go, man. Way to go for you too. You just always needed a hype man. Mm-hmm. You, you, you'd just need someone to like let you go. Like, "Give him the green light. Give him the green light!" Yes. It's so funny. You're right, you're right. Yeah, you just needed a hype man. You were the one who did it for me in Montreal too. Yeah. (laughs) Do you remember that? Yeah. Going to this place... (laughs) By the way, do you remember the beer we would drink? There were two kinds of this bee... I can't remember this Canadian beer. I, I've been racking my brain to think about it. It was like, there was like a gold version of it and like an, like an amber. Uh, and it was just the greatest stuff. And we get fired up up there and I loved it, man. I loved going to that Montreal Comedy Festival. Oh, it was the best. Yeah. Back when it was... I think it's gone under. I think they did... Just announced they're going bankrupt. Oh, really? Yeah, unfortunately. See, well, we should tell people what it was. Oh, yeah. So what it was during our time, then... When we were young, was the... Montreal Comedy Festival was where young comedians would go up and you could kinda, kinda get a deal. Yes. And that's where you got the deal to do the King of Queens. Well, I got the deal to do it at NBC. Right. Oh, yeah- And then, and then it turned in- ... and then it turned in- Yeah. Then once that failed- Yeah. ... that went in to, to CBS big time. But once you get in... The thing about... People should know, like in the '90s there was this thing that was happening where everybody looked at a comedian like this could be the next Roseanne, this could be the next Tim Allen- Right. ... this could be the next Seinfeld. So every time they looked at you, they're like, "What do you got?" Right. "What do you got for me?" And the agents would try to put it together as a sitcom. Yes. And they had this showcase called the Montreal Comedy Festival, the Just for Laughs Comedy Festival, and it was the most insane thing. You would go there and it would change your life. You could have one set, one 15-minute set, and all of a sudden you got a half a million dollars. 100%. You have one thing, one set that pops and people talking about, there's a buzz. Yeah. And it's like you're in, you're set. And they have bidding wars. Yes. So like CBS would be, Fox would be- (laughs) ... they would all be throwing in. And, you know, there's guys who walked... Do you remember Chicken? Chicken was the crazy guy? Yes. (laughs) Yes. Yes. Chicken got the deal that killed the deals. Yes, yes. He got like, uh, 800,000 or something. It was some crazy mon- or mil... I don't know what it was but- Some nutty amount of money. But he had no act, right? It was after that they thought he was- He just tricked everybody. He did. And I don't know how he did it, and I wonder if he had a hype man, if you could have kept tricking people. Yeah. 'Cause he- Like, maybe he just went off the rails with anxiety when success starts i-... 'Cause that's one of the things that does happen. And I've talked about it. I think everybody admits it.

3. 5:47 – 9:30

   Impostor syndrome and the corporate gig panic attack story

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:47

      You... When it first starts happening, you think it's gonna go away, you get super anxiety ridden, you, you k-... You, you feel like an imposter and you, like... You can't beli-... Like you'd show up on the set and you're like, "Are they kicking me out? Like, I'm still here?" My bud, I'm telling you, I've...

   2. ... I still deal with that. I'm not even kidding.

   3. KJKevin James6:05

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:05

      You obviously don't, and you haven't-

   5. KJKevin James6:07

      I do, though.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:08

      Do you really?

   7. KJKevin James6:09

      I do, though. Yeah, I do. I just ignore it. I tell it to shut the fuck up.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:11

      Well, that's what you gotta do, I guess.

   9. KJKevin James6:12

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       And that's what I don't do enough, because I start thinking. And I get thi- and I start overthinking both sides. I'm like, "Oh, gosh, what if this happens or this, that?" This means something, to this day.

   11. KJKevin James6:21

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       Like, if I'm doing a, like a theater and it's my people, you know, and I know that they're coming to pay to see me, I, I, I, I'm pretty confident. I feel like I'm gonna do well. But if I do a club that they don't know me or something-

   13. KJKevin James6:34

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:35

       ... it's a... Like, I did a, a corporate gig, uh, like a month ago, like in Miami. And I was like, you know, I was like, "Oh, boy." 'Cause corporate gigs, you know, they can go either way, and it's-

   15. KJKevin James6:45

       They can be horrible.

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       Well, I get there. It's in Miami. Really good-looking people. Everybody... It's in a lobby of a hotel, and I'm go-... I thought this was in a theater. I'm there, and it's a good b-... And I'm, now I'm getting worried. I'm like, "I gotta do... How much?" And they're like, "You gotta do an hour."

   17. KJKevin James6:59

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:59

       And then I find out nobody there wants to see me. The woman who was r-... The, the, like CEO of this company was, it was her birthday, and she liked me, so she brought me in to, to, for all her friends to see. Dude, I'm sitting in the lobby. I'm... And I'm finding all this information out-

   19. KJKevin James7:16

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:16

       ... as I'm sitting there. And I started... I'm not kidding. I started... I've never had a panic attack. I start going, "W- w- what, what do you mean? She doesn't... Nobody else knows I'm here or this or that or they don't know..." And they go, "No, no, no. They don't know. You know, this is a company." And, you know, the... And I'm looking in the room. I... It's in the lobby. I can see through, like a little glass, uh, window, and they're drinking, they're having... They're talking a table... We're set up for comedy too, just like round tables, uh, booths, like not even facing you.

   21. KJKevin James7:41

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:41

       And I'm on... I see a postage stamp of a stage that I gotta stand on, and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh." So I start hyperventilating.

   23. KJKevin James7:47

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:48

       I really do. I go... I wish I was going... So I start going, "I, I can't, I, I can't do this." I'm talking to Skyler, my b- my assistant buddy. You know, he's, he's, he's helping me out here. And I'm like, "Hey, just tell them we, we can't do it." He's like, "What are you talking about?" I go, "Just tell them. Uh, we gotta give them the money back. We're just not gonna do it. We don't need to do this. I don't wanna do it. This is not gonna go well." And I started really panicking. And then they started going up. She's up on stage now, introducing me. And I go, "Oh, my gosh, we're going. Oh, my gosh." So I start f- freaking out.

   25. KJKevin James8:13

       (gasps)

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:13

       Heart is going like... Exactly.

   27. KJKevin James8:15

       (gasps) (laughs) I'll get so much anxiety.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:15

       I've been doing comedy for 30 years, I've been doing stand-up. I go, "I don't need this." I'm ready to call Sussie and go, "I don't want to do this anymore." I don't want to do it.

   29. KJKevin James8:23

       Ah!

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:23

       I don't need... I get up there, and go, I go, "Just get them with that first joke." If you do, you settle it, 'cause if you don't... You know if they don't buy you on that first joke-
4. 9:30 – 12:10

   Performing like it’s an arena: Stone Temple Pilots and ‘who cares less has more power’

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:30

      I talked to Billy Joel, and he says he... Literally he was like, "I've gone through those." I'm like, "You? But when you're playing music, it's different, man."

   2. KJKevin James9:37

      Yeah. But they'll throw that Saudi money at ya.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:38

      Y- yeah. He threw crazy money at him.

   4. KJKevin James9:40

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:40

      And he did a, a corporate gig or whatever it was, and he says they weren't even listening. They turned away, and they-

   6. KJKevin James9:45

      Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:45

      And it's like just you and the band, and you just go, "Let's go, boys." You know? And they play.

   8. KJKevin James9:49

      Dana White had a 40th birthday party.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:51

      Mm-hmm.

   10. KJKevin James9:51

       And, uh, Stone Temple Pilots played. And it was insane. These dudes played like it was a packed arena.

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:00

       Where?

   12. KJKevin James10:00

       It was at a fucking conference room in a hotel somewhere.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:04

       They didn't care.

   14. KJKevin James10:05

       They didn't give a fuck. They had a s- a beautiful stage set up. The stage was set up nice. But like, uh, you know, all of a sudden, they were like, "Hey, everybody, Stone Temple Pilots." And then they fucking just, "I am, I am, I am, I am, uh."

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:19

       They just went-

   16. KJKevin James10:20

       I mean just-

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       Yeah.

   18. KJKevin James10:20

       Fu- dec- I, I was so impressed by his ability to perform. I mean, there's like... It took a while for people to even filter to the dance floor in front of them and, and watch the show. This dude did it like there was 50,000 people out there. It was incredible. I mean, he didn't back off at all.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:38

       He who cares less has more power.

   20. KJKevin James10:40

       (sighs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:40

       It's literally like... It... That's it. It's, uh... I'm going around-

   22. KJKevin James10:42

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:43

       ... with a tray. Like-

   24. KJKevin James10:43

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:43

       ... "You guys think this is funny?" He's like, "I don't care." And it's like-

   26. KJKevin James10:46

       He didn't give a fuck.

   27. JRJoe Rogan10:47

       And everybody jumps in.

   28. KJKevin James10:48

       Full commitment. You know, when someone just fully commits to something like that, it's very inspiring. And you'll f- you'll never forget that. Because if you never see anybody fully commit... That's why you never see great comics ever that exist where there's no other great comics. The best comic in the world never comes out of Tallahassee.

   29. JRJoe Rogan11:05

       Right.

   30. KJKevin James11:06

       Out of nowhere, no scene. We all need to see other people do something special. And if you're lucky, you live in New York or you live in LA or now you live in Texas, and you get to see these killers all the time.
5. 12:10 – 13:36

   Arenas and ‘in the round’: intimacy, screens, and stagecraft

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:10

      Sports, everything. But this is the thing. Like, I have, uh... I'm playing a first... My first arena coming up, and I'm freaking out. I've never done that before.

   2. KJKevin James12:18

      Have y-... Are you doing it in the round?

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      No.

   4. KJKevin James12:21

      That's the way to do it.You know why? This is a-

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:23

      A little late for that.

   6. KJKevin James12:24

      This is, this is okay, you'll still have a great time. They're still great. The, the arenas are great, they're fun. It's a wild experience, but the round is the best, because it's actually intimate, in the strangest way, because-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:35

      I've done the Westbury Music Fair, yeah.

   8. KJKevin James12:37

      ... because everybody's fa- facing everybody.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:38

      Yes.

   10. KJKevin James12:38

       So all the people see each other-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:40

       You-

   12. KJKevin James12:40

       ... and they're all in it together.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:41

       I love that. I love that idea. But, and does the, the stage, does it turn?

   14. KJKevin James12:46

       No, you walk around.

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:47

       I used to do the one, you know, the Westbury Music Fair-

   16. KJKevin James12:49

       Oh, it walks, it spins for you.

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:50

       It would spin for you, and you wouldn't even know where the hell you are, and then you have to walk off.

   18. KJKevin James12:55

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       It's an awkward walk off, where you-

   20. KJKevin James12:57

       You don't know where the stairs are. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:57

       ... you don't know where they are. It moves-

   22. KJKevin James12:59

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:59

       ... and everybody shifted, and you don't know who you're looking at.

   24. KJKevin James13:01

       You have to get, find some distinctive person in the audience-

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Yes, marker. That's, that big guy is my marker right there.

   26. KJKevin James13:08

       Yeah. The one in Phoenix spins around too. What's that? The Celebrity Theater?

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:10

       I didn't, I've been-

   28. KJKevin James13:11

       You can turn it on or off.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:12

       Really?

   30. KJKevin James13:12

       Yeah. That's a good one too, that's a... 'cause it's a comedy club, but it's in the round.
6. 13:36 – 17:50

   Chappelle surprise entrance: the Ohio standing ovation moment

   1. KJKevin James13:36

      ... they have massive screens. So if for some reason, like, you know, uh, w- we did these ones in Ohio, uh, and Chappelle came down, and it was, it was very interesting to watch, because they didn't know he was supposed to be there. And, uh, it was my show and, uh, Tony didn't know whether he was gonna bring Dave up or me, 'cause Dave hadn't gotten there yet.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:55

      Oh, wow.

   3. KJKevin James13:56

      And so it's like Tony's on stage and he's got like five minutes before he should go on stage, and all of a sudden Dave rolls up, posse, fucking limo. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:05

      Yeah, this is a guy who doesn't overthink things.

   5. KJKevin James14:07

      (laughs) Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:07

      He don't need the hype man.

   7. KJKevin James14:07

      He just strolled in.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:09

      Yeah.

   9. KJKevin James14:09

      And, uh, and, and he just came to say hi, and, and he's always like, "Should I go up?" I go, "What do you mean should you go up?"

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:16

       Yeah.

   11. KJKevin James14:16

       I go, "Go up. Let's go." He goes, "When?" I go, "You'll be up in five minutes." He goes, "Well, let's have a drink." So we had a drink and then we're sitting in the green room and I go, "Dude, he's got about one minute to go." I go, "I'll walk out there with you," 'cause he needs to know that it's not me that he's bringing up Dave.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       I see, right.

   13. KJKevin James14:31

       So he starts bringing me up, "This is one of my best friends, one of my favorite..." And then I'm like flashing the light and he sees Dave and the crowd slowly starts to realize it's Dave.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       Oh my gosh.

   15. KJKevin James14:43

       When they see me and Dave walk to the stage, and by the time he says, "Ohio's own Dave Chappelle," it is one full minute of a standing ovation. One full minute.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:59

       Yeah.

   17. KJKevin James14:59

       So he takes this victory lap around the stage for like one f- I mean, a full minute, man. It was... I, I filmed it. I put it up on my Instagram.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:10

       That's-

   19. KJKevin James15:10

       It's insane.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:11

       ... that's inspiring. That's so crazy.

   21. KJKevin James15:12

       I mean, Tony was just looking at each other and looking around going, "Wow." It just felt special. It felt like special that you could be there, like, "Wow." And then he goes, "O-H," and he puts the, the, the mic out and just-

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       Oh, no, and it's just even bigger.

   23. KJKevin James15:29

       "...ha!" It was insane. It was insane. It was so fucking cool 'cause he's from Ohio.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:34

       Right.

   25. KJKevin James15:34

       You know, he lives in, in, uh, uh, Yellow Springs, which is like right outside of Dayton.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       Oh, my goodness.

   27. KJKevin James15:38

       So it's like for him to, to go there like that and, but to be in the round. See, the round is everybody sees everybody.

   28. JRJoe Rogan15:46

       Yes.

   29. KJKevin James15:46

       It's not just you facing this crowd and then you're in the crowd and they're there. In the round, it seems like everyone's all in this together. It's so much better.

   30. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       It's intimate in a special way.
7. 17:50 – 22:17

   Building a killer club show: lineups, open mics, and ‘Bottom of the Barrel’

   1. KJKevin James17:50

      But that's the thing. It's like... But I do that all the time. You know, when I'm at the club-

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:53

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KJKevin James17:54

      ... I'll have five, six guys who are going on in front of me, and they're all headliners.

   4. JRJoe Rogan17:57

      See, that's why-

   5. KJKevin James17:57

      I'm doing, I'm going on stage an hour and a half into the show.

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:59

      I would... Again, my theaters, um, I'd be comfortable. Your club, I would be afraid. I'd be afraid 'cause you got such heavy hitters and I come up and I'm talking about-

   7. KJKevin James18:07

      No!

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:08

      ... weird little observational stuff.

   9. KJKevin James18:10

      No, no, no, no.

   10. JRJoe Rogan18:10

       And it's like, whoa.

   11. KJKevin James18:10

       No.

   12. JRJoe Rogan18:11

       It would get in my head. It would.

   13. KJKevin James18:12

       It... No, there's a lot of weird observational comedians kill there. It's a fun place. Like Duncan kills there. And, you know, and we're... it's all just... it's all great. It's all a bunch of different com... But for me, it's like to, to have a... I want the audience to get the best possible show they can see. So they're, they're gonna see Ron White.

   14. JRJoe Rogan18:30

       Wow.

   15. KJKevin James18:30

       They're gonna see Shane Gillis and Tony Hinchcliffe and Brian Simpson and-

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:35

       That's insane.

   17. KJKevin James18:35

       And all these monsters that come into town. Like in any given week, it's Chris Distefano or fucking Dave Smith or... It's like there's so many killers.

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:45

       How, how, how often during the week are, are you there and how often like are guys working out their stuff there? Are there different nights?

   19. KJKevin James18:51

       Well, it's open seven nights a week.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:52

       Seven nights a week.

   21. KJKevin James18:53

       Seven nights a week, two shows each night in each room.... except for, uh, Mondays and Sundays, which are open mic nights. So open mic night, there's, uh, a show in the small room, there's only one show, but then there's, uh, at least one show in the main room that's a regular show-

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:07

       Right.

   23. KJKevin James19:08

       ... like regular comedians. (sniffs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:09

       Wow. That's incredible.

   25. KJKevin James19:10

       Yeah. And it's, um, two shows a night in each room, so four shows a night.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:15

       Uh, how, how big are e- e- each room?

   27. KJKevin James19:17

       One's 250 and one's about 110 to 120.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:20

       Is there a... Do you feel a difference, or no?

   29. KJKevin James19:22

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the little one's super intimate. The little one is like, um, if you remember the Belly Room at The Comedy Store, it's like the Belly Room and the original room had a baby, and that's the little room.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:33

       Wow.
8. 22:17 – 26:41

   How to keep bits alive: buy-in, momentum, and staying ‘fresh’

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:17

      I do a lot of writing while I have a tour, like if I have a tour in, in the theaters, you know, where I'll try to... If I have a set theme set, I'll try to add some stuff in there-

   2. KJKevin James22:27

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:27

      ... for the next one. Have you ever done that?

   4. KJKevin James22:29

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:29

      Do you ever...

   6. KJKevin James22:30

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      Yeah.

   8. KJKevin James22:31

      When you're doing a lot of shows it's, it's great.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:33

      Yeah.

   10. KJKevin James22:33

       'Cause you kinda get a sense of where you could stick stuff in and you start saying-

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:37

       You always have the safety net of I can go here if it's going nowhere.

   12. KJKevin James22:40

       Right. Yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:40

       'Cause that's my problem. That's what I do too. I'll, I'll write a huge chunk on something and won't know when to bail on it, if it's not going... Like, you, you know, it's-

   14. KJKevin James22:47

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       ... dependent on this thing... I gotta follow through with it now.

   16. KJKevin James22:50

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:50

       And if they're not in... if they don't buy in right away, I'm like, "Wow, I got three more minutes of this stuff."

   18. KJKevin James22:54

       Oftentimes I, I realize it's because I didn't buy in.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:58

       Right.

   20. KJKevin James22:58

       That's what it is mostly with me. If I'm i- entering a bit like, "Oh, I didn't wanna be talking about this. I wish I shouldn't, didn't bring this one up." Like, if I ever get to that place, like, you just have to fight off that thought. There's this thought that comes into your mind like, "Oh, why did I bring this up? I don't wanna do this bit." But you can't, but you can't say, "You know what? Fuck that bit."

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:16

       Yeah.

   22. KJKevin James23:16

       'Cause then the audience will be like, "What?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:17

       Yes, yes.

   24. KJKevin James23:18

       No, so you just have to never let yourself get to the mindset where you're like, "I don't wanna do this." So you gotta remember w- there w- there was something, whatever the subject is, there was something about that subject that when you initially started writing a joke about it, it was resonating with you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:33

       Right.

   26. KJKevin James23:33

       And you were like, "What the fuck is this?"

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:35

       Right.

   28. KJKevin James23:35

       But if you hear it too many times, it's like anything else, you get tired of it, you, it loses its luster. But that's just a mental weakness. You just have to realize or just, like, get your h- your head wrapped around that you can't allow yourself to think that way. And surely this thought originally was valid, because that's why you're so excited about it and that's why you wrote a bit about it. The audience doesn't know that you've said it 100 times over the last year-

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:01

       Right.

   30. KJKevin James24:01

       ... or more. They, they just wanna hear it.
9. 26:41 – 30:35

   Non-sequiturs and Mitch Hedberg: brilliance, heroin, and lost potential

   1. KJKevin James26:41

      That's why I always admired guys like Steven Wright-

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:44

      Oh, man.

   3. KJKevin James26:44

      ... who do those non sequiturs. I'm like, "How do you do that?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:47

      Mm-hmm.

   5. KJKevin James26:47

      "And how do you write?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:49

      Right.

   7. KJKevin James26:49

      God, that's gonna be so hard to write.

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:51

      Um, who's the guy, uh, that, uh, he's such a great-

   9. KJKevin James26:54

      Mitch Hedberg?

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:54

       Yes.

   11. KJKevin James26:55

       Same thing.

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:55

       Yes.

   13. KJKevin James26:55

       Yeah, same thing.

   14. JRJoe Rogan26:56

       He's so great.

   15. KJKevin James26:57

       Non sequiturs.

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:57

       Just didn't im-

   17. KJKevin James26:58

       Yeah, amazing.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:58

       And you were with him every-

   19. KJKevin James26:59

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:00

       And, and that's what made it even funnier, you know? It's like-

   21. KJKevin James27:02

       God, who, who does that now? Are there any non sequitur guys that just go joke to... I guess Jimmy Carr is kinda non sequitur. But some guys just, they're just one bit to the next.

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:15

       Yeah.

   23. KJKevin James27:15

       One subject to the next. And with Mitch Hedberg, it was always like super ridiculous. Like, and, and Steven Wright, same thing, everything was really ridiculous.

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:23

       And that became something that actually elevated it to, like... Right?

   25. KJKevin James27:27

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:27

       You know what I mean? Like, it was the f-... They weren't storytellers, you know?

   27. KJKevin James27:30

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:31

       That's so funny (laughs) .

   29. KJKevin James27:31

       It was part, it was part of the fun.

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:33

       So out of it, yeah.
10. 30:35 – 41:58

    Social media comics, crowd work clips, and the ‘soft act’ trap

    1. JRJoe Rogan30:35

       Well, you see a lot of these guys now that are developing an act because they did something on, like, Instagram or what, whatever. Like, they, they develop these audiences-

    2. KJKevin James30:43

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       ... that, you know, they, they get popular.

    4. KJKevin James30:46

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan30:46

       And then they put together an act, they go and they, and the clubs are like, "Well, let's put this guy up," you know?

    6. KJKevin James30:51

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       And, um, uh, they sell out like crazy because, you know, they, they, they, they, they got a big following-

    8. KJKevin James30:58

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       ... but it's not like working your standup, man. It's a different game.

    10. KJKevin James31:01

        Well, there's also a lot of guys who do crowd control, like they do crowd work stuff. Like, it's like, uh, just fucking around with the crowd, and that's most of these clips. You're seeing a lot of guys who put up clips of crowd work 'cause that way they don't have to, uh, crowd work 'cause you don't have to burn your material. You're just talking to the crowd.

    11. JRJoe Rogan31:19

        Right.

    12. KJKevin James31:20

        You just talk to them.... it's fine.

    13. JRJoe Rogan31:21

        That can go bad.

    14. KJKevin James31:22

        It can go bad, but if you do it enough and you get some funny moments-

    15. JRJoe Rogan31:25

        And you get good at it, right. You get your shapeness.

    16. KJKevin James31:27

        Like Andrew Schulz has a lot of great moments-

    17. JRJoe Rogan31:28

        Right.

    18. KJKevin James31:28

        ... so he's really good at it, and you take those clips, and that way, you're putting shit up, but you're not burning any of your jokes. The problem is, some of those guys can only do that. Schulz is a great comic, like he could do-

    19. JRJoe Rogan31:39

        Right.

    20. KJKevin James31:40

        ... great bits. He could do great... I mean, he can do anything.

    21. JRJoe Rogan31:43

        Right.

    22. KJKevin James31:43

        But some of these guys are only good at talking to the audience, and then when they have to do, "Did you ever notice?"-

    23. JRJoe Rogan31:49

        Right.

    24. KJKevin James31:49

        ... everybody's like, "Whoa." (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan31:51

        (laughs) "What's this?"

    26. KJKevin James31:52

        'Cause th- the audience can feel the shift-

    27. JRJoe Rogan31:54

        (laughs)

    28. KJKevin James31:54

        ... when I go back to my own material-

    29. JRJoe Rogan31:55

        Yeah.

    30. KJKevin James31:55

        ... they go, "You wrote this." "Yo, what is this wack-ass bullshit-"
11. 41:58 – 48:07

    Writing systems and tools: Word, Scrivener, Notes, index cards

    1. JRJoe Rogan41:58

       How do you write? How do you ... Do you ... Are you even the guy sitting down every ... I mean-

    2. KJKevin James42:01

       I sit down in front of a computer and I just write. I just ... I don't write like, "This is exactly how I'm gonna say it." I just like spill my thoughts out. It's 'cause I feel like it takes me a lot longer to write the words than it does for me to think about things. So, the more time that I'm actually just writing the words, it's extra time thinking about the thing where you're kinda like locked into it.

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:21

       Do you speak into a computer? Do you talk into it? Voice-

    4. KJKevin James42:23

       No, I, I just type.

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:24

       Really?

    6. KJKevin James42:25

       Yeah, I type. And I just ... Whatever the subject is, I'll ... Like, there's this one subject that I'm doing right now where I've written it, written about the subject four times. So, I start a whole new Microsoft Word file four times and just r- completely revisit it. Just one more time. Let's look at it this way.

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:44

       What pro- what program are you using? 'Cause I'm nuts with that, too.

    8. KJKevin James42:46

       I just use Word.

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:46

       You use Word?

    10. KJKevin James42:47

        Just use Microsoft Word and I go into, uh, there's, um, Focus mode. Have you seen Focus mode?

    11. JRJoe Rogan42:53

        Yeah. It's uh, it blocks everything else out, right?

    12. KJKevin James42:55

        So, I used to use ... Yeah. I used to use Write Room. I'll still use Write Room.

    13. JRJoe Rogan42:57

        I did Scrivener. I d- like, I'll s-

    14. KJKevin James42:59

        Yeah. Yeah. I use Scrivener. Yeah. I use that, too.

    15. JRJoe Rogan43:01

        But I'll find one thing about it and then I'll go, "I don't like this, that. It doesn't ... It sets my bits up this way." Or, "It can't do this."

    16. KJKevin James43:06

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan43:07

        Or, "It can't transfer that." And then I'll spend the whole day looking it up for apps, for the perfect app.

    18. KJKevin James43:12

        (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:12

        And, and I'm not, and I'm not writing. See, it's like-

    20. KJKevin James43:13

        Yeah, you're distracting yourself.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:15

        Of course, of course.

    22. KJKevin James43:15

        Of course, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:16

        It does, uh-

    24. KJKevin James43:16

        Yeah, I try to avoid that. But Scrivener, what I do with Scrivener is I make each individual bit. Once I have it kinda boiled down, then I put it in the columns, so it would always give Scrivener set up, you know, whatever the subject is.

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:30

        I love Scrivener. The only thing it didn't do, it didn't transf for- transfer to my phone or, or the other ... You know, when like, when I'm at a gig-

    26. KJKevin James43:37

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:37

        ... and I wanna look it up quick. You had to go to like a Dropbox or like a, that ... You know?

    28. KJKevin James43:41

        Right.

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:42

        And it was like, it was annoying.

    30. KJKevin James43:43

        Right.
12. 48:07 – 58:56

    Supplements, joint relief, and diet discipline: Alpha Brain to carnivore

    1. KJKevin James48:07

       Let me get you some of this. Do you take any-

    2. JRJoe Rogan48:09

       Homeboy, you have to-

    3. KJKevin James48:09

       ... nootropics?

    4. JRJoe Rogan48:10

       I take nothing and-

    5. KJKevin James48:11

       Okay. This is what you're gonna get. Um, I'm gonna give you this. Just take this one and I'll get you some more. I'll send you some more. That's Alpha Brain. That's, uh, Onnit-

    6. JRJoe Rogan48:19

       I'm really feeling it.

    7. KJKevin James48:19

       That's the Black Label Alpha Brain. That is the, the top of the food chain Alpha Brain, the strongest one.

    8. JRJoe Rogan48:25

       Am I gonna see unicorns?

    9. KJKevin James48:26

       No, no, no, no, no, no. It just, it helps memory.

    10. JRJoe Rogan48:29

        Okay.

    11. KJKevin James48:29

        It's really good for memory and it's really good for, uh, focus. It just, it gives you, like, a little extra juice mentally. Now, if you're a moron, you're not gonna notice it. Like people, "I've tried... Uh, fucking shit. It's bullshit. It's snake oil." Trust me, as someone who makes a living using his brain, there are certain things that you can take that-

    12. JRJoe Rogan48:50

        Right.

    13. KJKevin James48:50

        ... are not bad for you, that are just nutrients that enhance brain function. You know what another one is? Creatine. Creatine.

    14. JRJoe Rogan48:57

        Creatine's okay?

    15. KJKevin James48:58

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan48:58

        It's okay to do that?

    17. KJKevin James48:59

        Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan48:59

        And get-

    19. KJKevin James49:00

        Creatine's very safe. Creatine's one of the, uh, safest supplements. Um, it's also, uh-

    20. JRJoe Rogan49:06

        What does that do, though?

    21. KJKevin James49:07

        It gives you... It's... Well, it adds water to your body. Your, your body has more water and that's one of the functions of it and it's one of the reasons why m-... It makes your muscles look bigger, it makes you stronger. It really does work. As a, like a, a fitness supplement, like, as a... Like, if you're training and lifting weights, creatine is one of the very best things you could take. Creatine and I would say beta-alanine. That's another one. But-

    22. JRJoe Rogan49:27

        I gotta, I gotta give you this thing that Wideman gave me, these herbal pills, completely natural. He gave me... We were playing golf in... I forget, we were in Atlanta or whatever it was, with DC. Cormier was there. It was just the... The three of us went out. And I was, you know... Uh, I get up in the morning, my back is killing me, my everything... My joints are cur- hurting. I, I, I get to the course. You know, you're walking around hills up and down all day, you know. I'm like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna be so gone on this thing." And Wideman says, "Take a couple of these, you know, pills." He usually got these things. They're completely herbal and, you know-

    23. KJKevin James50:01

        What is it?

    24. JRJoe Rogan50:03

        It's ashwagand-... Like, it's... I don't know.

    25. KJKevin James50:05

        Oh, ashwaganda. Okay.

    26. JRJoe Rogan50:05

        But it's... With the key with this stuff is... I said, "W- why..." You know. 'Cause he gave it to me and he says, "Just do me a favor. Mark right now where you feel, how you feel, how your joint..." I go, "I feel horrible. My knees are killing me. My ankles... Everything... I feel everything. My back." You're swinging a golf club, that's br-... It's brutal. So he goes, "And just take three and tell me how you feel in, uh, like, uh, you know, in a, in a few hours," or whatever it was. And I forgot about it. And around the ninth hole-... for th- I swear, I'm, I'm, uh, around the turn, I'm, um, it's a couple hours later, I'm going, "I feel amazing" for some re- Like, all the joints, you know, like, uh, like, the jujitsu finger thing when you get 'em-

    27. KJKevin James50:40

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan50:40

        ... when you first come back? And it's like, "Oh," all that pain? I had all that joint pain and, and, and, uh, it was gone. I was literally pummeling with DC. I'm like, "Come on, let's go, man."

    29. KJKevin James50:49

        (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan50:49

        And (laughs) I felt amazing. I go, (gasps) I go, "It's the pills." I go, "This is insane." I go, "Can you give me..." And DC tried 'em too, and DC said, "I haven't wrestled in a long time." He goes, he tried them, he goes, "I love it." And, like, I wanna know. I, I know nothing. I, like, I, I go, I, I'm trying to figure out this is a placebo effect or what it was. He gave 'em to me again, same thing, felt amazing, so-
13. 58:56 – 1:08:02

    Motivation, community, and the ‘two people inside you’ framework

    1. KJKevin James58:56

       Yeah.

    2. JRJoe Rogan58:56

       ... you gotta get that... Like, you, I, I, I saw you were doing this with the other comedians, which I love. You know, it's like, where you go, "I just want him to walk or just get him down there."

    3. KJKevin James59:04

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan59:04

       Get... That is so important, man, because like, if you can get into that groove, you do feel better. Like, that's what blows my mind. I've gotten in shape a couple times, and I'm like, "I don't need to eat any more crap. I don't..."

    5. KJKevin James59:17

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan59:17

       I love the working out. I love the way I feel.

    7. KJKevin James59:19

       And then it slides right back.

    8. JRJoe Rogan59:20

       What happens?

    9. KJKevin James59:21

       Well, that's en- It's one of the things about you that makes you really funny, is you're indulgent. You're just wi- You're a wild dude who's, like, trying to stay buttoned up. It's, like, part of what's really funny about you.

    10. JRJoe Rogan59:31

        Right, right.

    11. KJKevin James59:32

        And that indulgence, it, it, it goes into other things. And for you, it's food.

    12. JRJoe Rogan59:37

        Right.

    13. KJKevin James59:37

        You know, luckily, it's not gambling or something, like, really crazy.

    14. JRJoe Rogan59:40

        Right, right.

    15. KJKevin James59:41

        You know.

    16. JRJoe Rogan59:41

        But I don't... I, I quit things too. Uh, like, like, uh, uh, like, I feel like I have the same almost intensity that you have, but I'm not a finisher. Like, I don't...

    17. KJKevin James59:51

        We get really into things, and then we stop.

    18. JRJoe Rogan59:53

        We started jujitsu... Did, did we start at the same time?

    19. KJKevin James59:56

        Yeah, basically the same time. Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan59:57

        Did we start at... Beverly Hills Jujitsu, right?

    21. KJKevin James59:58

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan59:58

        But you were the one who brought me down there.

    23. KJKevin James59:59

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

        I'm a blue belt.

    25. KJKevin James1:00:02

        (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

        And, and barely 30 y- It's like 30... (laughs)

    27. KJKevin James1:00:06

        Yeah, yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

        You know what I'm saying? It's like, 'cause I start, stop, I don't fin-

    29. KJKevin James1:00:08

        Right.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

        You know what I'm saying? And that's in my head. I'm like, "Ah, if I would've done what Joe did, man, look where I could've been." And I, you know, I'm, I'm trying to, you know... Why do...? And then I start comparing, like, "All right, you can do it now. You do that." And I, if, if I play that game, I'm done, 'cause I can never catch up to-

Episode duration: 2:27:53