EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,024 words- 0:00 – 3:27
Border crossings, “military-aged men,” and the sense that normal immigration rules collapsed
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) James Jensen, how are you, sir?
- JLJames Lindsay
I'm good, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause you're an American masculine already, sure. We both, uh, we didn't even coordinate, but we're both wearing American flags.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, well, I mean, it's that kind of ... It's, it's that time, right? It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
... time to start saying, "You know what? I'm an American," (laughs) and that's cool.
- JRJoe Rogan
Before you say, uh, that, I mean, if you don't, we're, we're on the way to saying, "I'm Chinese." (laughs)
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJames Lindsay
Uh, well, uh, how's your Mandarin?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Might be a good time to learn it as they're, they're all sneaking in across the border. That's one of the more disturbing things. When I talked to Bret Weinstein, he was talking about how many, uh, Chinese m- military-aged men are sneaking across the border. And you wanna, you wanna look at it the best way possible. You say, well, it's probably a bunch of people that are looking for work, and it's probably a bunch of people that are ... You know, there's not as many Chinese women, and they're trying, looking for a girlfriend or something. And-
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... why do they have military haircuts? Well, they're probably, you know, it's just like a young man thing, hmm?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. I mean, I've heard more specifically, I can't vet it, so I can't prove it, and so I like... There's the grain of salt upfront, but I have, I've heard that even Chinese special forces ... If I was a special forces of a hostile country, I'd try to sneak across and do infiltration. So, I've heard that there might be even, you know, hundreds or thousands of those. Not hundreds of thousands, hundreds or thousands. But I don't know if that's true, but ...
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I wouldn't ... I- it's not even really sneaking in anymore, is it?
- JLJames Lindsay
No, you just kinda walk across and ... I mean, there's even memes that are like, "I'm gonna go to Honduras and give up my American citizenship and come back across-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
... so everything will be paid for for me." You know? It's like, no, it's not sneaking across. It's, it's, like f- as they are saying, full-scale invasion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's just weird. It's weird that we've just kind of gone, "Well, well ..." We've always, uh, agre- ... I mean, there was always customs. There's always, you land, they check out your stuff, they look at your paperwork. They go through your passport. They ask you questions.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why are you in this country? You know? And it's always been that way. Like, I, I was watching this video with the ... You know who Deadmau5 is?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Deadmau5, the m- musician, um, the DJ. He was, uh, uh, they ... He was trying to come into the country to visit his friend, and, uh, they said, "No, you're coming in to work." He's like, "No, no, I'm coming ..." 'Cause he's famous.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He works.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's like, "No, I've get ... paperwork." And they, they kicked him out of the country for like seven years.
- JLJames Lindsay
Whoa.
- 3:27 – 4:29
Cloward–Piven strategy: overwhelm systems to trigger crisis-driven control measures
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. Well, everybody's doing it these days, disinformation. Um, but yeah, I mean, the- there's a strategy. The reason the border is the way that it is, is that th- Well, there is a strategy. I don't know who's playing the strategy for sure. But the, the Cloward-Piven strategy, I'm sure you've heard of that. Somebody's gotta have talked to you about the Cloward-Piven strategy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you explain it?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, it's pretty simple. Uh, uh, the idea is that you o- ver- you take advantage of a system and the way that it's set up so that you overwhelm it. Uh, in particular, in this case, you're gonna overwhelm self- social services, you're gonna overwhelm, you know, border enforcement. You're gonna overwhelm w- whatever they do in the cities. You know, it's like, tens of thousands of dollars per taxpayer or whatever per year going to dealing with what they're calling the migrant crisis. So you try to overwhelm the system in order to basically collapse it so that you can create a crisis, and the crisis creates the excuse to bring in new policies. "Oh, well, maybe what we need is ..." What do they call it, E-verify or something? "So we need a digital system where we can track who everybody is."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
But then they get their digital system, and, and you're off to the races. It-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
But yeah, it's ... It ... This is an old strategy, well-documented. Um-
- 4:29 – 11:02
Who’s behind it? Federal vs state power, NGOs, UN involvement, and organized migration
- JRJoe Rogan
Who do you think is implementing this strategy, and what are the conversations, do you think?
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, it's not possible to deny that the Biden administration is implementing it, because ... Look, they went to (laughs) they tried to, tried to fight Texas on securing its own border to protect its own citizens. That blew up, what was that, end of January? Is that when they ... it all blew up?
- JRJoe Rogan
Very recently, yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. It was pretty, pretty recent. And so, certainly they are. Um, we know historically that the Open Society Foundation, or the Soros Foundation, uh, which is open society, has been funding that and has been helping out. We know that the UN is involved now. Like, these aren't, these aren't mysteries. The UN is coming and doing, you know, aid and, and coaching them, and, and somebody's organizing not just ... It's like it's not just a bunch of people from South America and China and wherever else, or Mexicans, wandering up to the border and like, just, "Hey, I'm here." There's like, r- roots. There are ... It's caravans. There's, there, there's help. It, it's, it's coordinated with a lot of money behind it. And we know that those organizations, for the United Nations particularly, i- is helping this. Um, so big players.
- JRJoe Rogan
So what do you think the strategy is? The strategy is to implement some sort of a worldwide verification system, and the way to get these freedom-loving shitheads in America on board is to turn America into a, a crime-ridden place of immigrants coming from very hostile places where their life has been very hard-
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they've been in prison or whatever-
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they're escaping that, and they're coming to America, and then ...... they're off to the races.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. Well, I mean, that, that's a plaus- a plausible motive, right? Is, let's overwhelm this system because these freedom-loving shitheads here in America, which I think I am, for sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look at your shirts.
- JLJames Lindsay
Look at me, yeah. Um, but no, I really am. Like, that's, I'm still, at the end of the day, I just kinda wanna be left alone to live my life. Like, you do your thing, I'll do my thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJames Lindsay
Like, I really, if you understand the two... There are two lines. Let's be real clear. Before I say, "Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anybody," it's not clear enough. There are two lines. Do you understand the difference between public and private, and do you understand the difference between adult and child? If you understand those two lines, and you're on the right side of those, it, I don't care what you do in private, as long as it's with adults. I don't care what you do. Leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. You're cool, I'm cool. Like, let's not interfere with one another.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is how we all should be.
- JLJames Lindsay
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
We should all... That, that's what real freedom is.
- JLJames Lindsay
But we don't want a system, you know, tying us... Like, the Chinese social credit system's real, right? We're not s- this isn't some conspiracy out in the world. Whether or not it's coming to the United States is a question, whether Americans would want it is a question, but it's in China. It's real in China for, I mean, it, it's been there for a decade. Um, I've been to China. I've experienced, you know, life there. And the fact of the matter is that this would, the worldwide verification system would set something like that up. You can also overwhelm the US system so that all of a sudden, you know, it has to start taking some kind of an emergency measure to deal with whatever problems. You know, we can talk about the, the crisis here in the United States, but holy crap, look at what's going on in the UK. I was over there right after, uh, right at the end of October. So, on October 7th, we all know what happened in, in Israel, and then all these huge protests broke out, like pro-Palestine. So, I had some places to go. I don't really give a shit about my surroundings all that much. I'm gonna do what I wanna do as long as I'm not, like, causing pro- So, I'm walking against the grain up this, whatever they said, like, 150,000 or something like that people waving the Palestinian flag, walking down the street the other way on their march in London, 'cause I had to get where I was going. London's in trouble, right? Like, the UK is in trouble. When we start talking about this overwhelming the system, we're looking at these kind of, you know, much more generous social democracies, Sweden, uh, Germany's hosed. I mean, their economy's possibly in free fall. The UK... And what are the s- what... At that point, what does the solution look like, right? How could they fix that problem now? Belgium's a big one. I was riding with this guy. I went to, to, spoke at the EU Parliament this time last year. So, I'm riding with this dude, and it turns out he's like the European James Bond. He's, like, driving me from the airport, and he's like, "Oh, yeah," you know, um, "We've gotta deal with this problem." I do all the security stuff or whatever, and he's talking to me about how, uh, you can get arrested if one of them starts a fight with you and you do anything about it. It's racism, and you'll end up hauled before a tribunal. And that's happened to him! And it's like, we've gotta start figuring our way to get 'em out. But it's like, how do you get 'em out? And I don't mean everybody. I mean the people who are causing criminal problems, the people who aren't trying to follow Belgian law or UK law or whatever else. And they're going on TV saying this. Like, you know, there's that imam or whatever the other day that famously went on and was like, bu- in London, and he was like, you know, "We're gonna take this country." Like, "We're not gonna follow your rules. We're not gonna follow your law." I don't remember what he said, so that's not exactly right. A lot of information passes between these ears these days. But the fact of the matter is, the question becomes when you have a crisis at that scale, what are your options for fixing it? And I think that that's part of this, this, the Cloward-Piven strategy is, how do you end up fixing a problem that's at that scale? I think they're doing the same thing. To be honest with you, it sounds all crazy conspiratorial, but I think this is why it has been pedal to the metal with the transition stuff, the trans stuff. If you end up with a million kids, you've got a million kids. Like, that really are on the medical system. What do you do with them? What do you do with a million kids? And then their parents and their aunts and uncles. Everybody, the whole system has to start bending around a reality that was kinda manufactured, and you can get some major changes.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it seems like this... (sighs) I, I mean, if you wanna go full tinfoil hat, there has to be a plan, so that means there has to be conversations.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There has to be a bunch of people that agree to this. Like, who are those people, and how do those conversations take place?
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, I mean, we do... Who are the people? Well, again, I just point back. The Biden administration has to have had conversations. They petitioned the Supreme Court to stop Texas from enforcing its border. Um, I would love to know what those conversations look like. Whoever's funding it, at some point, had to sit down at a table, probably not exactly like this, it might not have as much cool stuff on it, but they sat down, and they signed some contracts and said, "This is what, this is where the money's gonna go."
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think it could be that it's the federal government putting power over state governments to make sure that state governments don't say, "We can do what we want"?
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, I mean, that's the fight between Texas and the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 11:02 – 15:09
Open Society idea: Karl Popper, Soros, borders, and an EU-style world model
- JLJames Lindsay
... federal government for, so for sure, that's, that's part of it. But I think there's the United Nations that's, that's kicking this too, that's pushing this. I mean, so a lot of people don't understand. Th- and I'm skipping around. The United Nations sees itself as a, um, kind of global entity, 193 member states, blah, blah, blah, 17 sustainable development goals to transform our world, all that. But I'm gonna skip over and talk about, like, Soros for a second, 'cause we know that the Open Society Foundation has pushed a lot of this kinda stuff too. And it's, a lot of people don't understand Soros or what... And what is the open society that he's talking about? Well, that's all based off of... A lot of people don't know, uh, Soros's mentor was the famous Karl, Karl Popper. And Karl Popper wrote a book in 1945 called The Open Society and Its Enemies. And so, the open society is what we've been taking for granted, basically in the post-World War II era and with what we want. That's where it's a free society. It's a high-trust society. It's a, you know, people can do what they want. They don't have to worry about, you know, whether they're gonna get carjacked all the time or whatever else. And Soros is like, "Well, you could have that in the nation, or you could have that..."... where there's kind of one open society in the globe. So a lot of people start thinking that he's working with China, but he doesn't like China, because China doesn't have an open society, that's not what he wants. But the idea that there's this line that comes across the south of Texas and New Mexico and Arizona and California, where arbitrarily, so to speak, um, the United States says, "This is our land and Mexicans have to stay out," he would be against that. That's not an... There should be like an open Amer- pan-American kind of mega continent, uh, kind of in his mind, with one society. So what do you have to do? Well, you have to dissolve a border. And how can you dissolve a border? Well, make so many people be able to cross that border through changes legally and through flooding the system, so that, uh, the border doesn't really mean anything anymore, 'cause borders are simple, right? What is a border? It's a, it's a line we draw on a map and we say, "Laws on this side of this border mean this, and laws on the other side of this border are different." Right? The US has law, Mexico has law, and this line is where we have US law versus Mexican law on either... You know, one step across, and now you're in another set of laws. That's what they mean. That's what borders are, uh, as a, as a political entity. But if you can water that down, so it's like, "Yeah, well, there's so many people coming across, like is there really a border? Are the..." Wh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
That's, that's the idea. 'Cause Soros' idea is a global open society. Everything in the whole globe, you could, no, you know, maybe, I don't know if it's that extreme, but maybe you don't need passports, you don't cr- you, you just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
It's like the EU, but for the whole world.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wouldn't a better option be America, but for the whole world?
- JLJames Lindsay
I have... I would say so, because you can look at Europe and see that the EU is not doing really well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, we're, we're not sneaking into Mexico.
- JLJames Lindsay
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
In fact, you can just drive into Mexico. Mariana Van Zeller, who does that fantastic show, Trafficked.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You ever watch that show?
- JLJames Lindsay
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
That lady is a gangster.
- JLJames Lindsay
Oh, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
She goes to the craziest places. She goes to Colombia and watches them make cocaine-
- JLJames Lindsay
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then goes through the jungle with them when they have it on their backs. So she did one in Los Angeles, where it turns out that cops, dirty cops in LA, are confiscating weapons and then selling them to the cartel. And they just drive into Mexico with them, 'cause nobody checks you when you go into-
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... Mexico. So these guys have trunk fulls of AKs, and they're just driving into Mexico, and she goes with them.
- JLJames Lindsay
Holy crap.
- JRJoe Rogan
The, the whole episode is documenting this. And that's, the... Well see, we're not sneaking into there.
- JLJames Lindsay
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
You could just go right into there.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're sneaking into here. Would the best case scenario, is it even possible to have this everywhere? Well, that's what we wanted, right? And that was the whole idea of spreading democracy, but it doesn't totally seem like it worked.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. No. It, it doesn't seem like it worked. And there are some, some big reasons for that. Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, power's the big reason.
- JLJames Lindsay
Power is a big one, and the fact is, when you start getting, you know, divorced, too far away from... Mexican issues being ruled by, ruled over in say Ottawa is a little bit difficult, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 15:09 – 19:56
China’s Belt and Road, BRICS, and how market access exports CCP rules into the West
- JLJames Lindsay
But, so there's that kind of stuff, but there's also a huge geopolitical... I hate misusing that word. I learned what the word geopolitical really means, and like-
- JRJoe Rogan
What does it really mean?
- JLJames Lindsay
It means politics of earth things, like waterways, oceans, dams.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, interesting.
- JLJames Lindsay
And so it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
I've always used it wrong too.
- JLJames Lindsay
I go totally like autistic every time I say the word now, and I'm like, "Damn it, I know it means something different," because we all use it wrong, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
... I'm gonna use it wrong anyway. The G- there's a geopolitical move from China right now called the Belt and Road Initiative. And the Belt and Road Initiative, that's tied to the BRICS, that's... The idea is that the entire global south, with China as its head, is going to become the new epicenter, the superpower of the world. And it's gonna be not just trade. I mean, China doesn't exactly trade on fair terms. They're gonna go and basically exploit places, "We'll build you a nice airport, we'll build you a nice port, we'll build you some highways. By the way, they all go straight to the mine, and we're taking all of your lithium-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
"... when we come in. That's your deal, and now you're economically dependent on us." Um, pretty standard, uh, game that they're playing. And that Belt and Road Initiative actually is a competing interest to spreading democracy around the world. So I know Vivek Ramaswamy, you know, really hit this out of the park where he said, "We went over to China and said, 'Let's spread democracy to China.'" So in a sense, we bit off way more than we could chew, if you wanna think of it that way. "Let's spread democracy to China," and China was like, "Ha ha ha, yeah, let's see." And they flipped the table on us and made it so that if you wanna play in... If you wanna get in the Chinese market, so first they become the manufacturing base of the world, but then if you wanna play in the Chinese market, what do you have to do? Well, the CCP puts up a firewall, and if you don't s- don't play by the Chinese rules, you don't get into China. So now Nike and all these big, you know, corporations, and all these other... And, and NBA. I name Nike 'cause it just keeps coming to mind, but there's a huge consumer market over there that's buying up stuff like crazy, that's one of the things I witnessed in China. Everybody's starting to have money, so they're buying up brand name stuff everywhere that they can all the time to show that they have some money now. And huge market. So they want into the market, the market's gigantic, it's a manufacturing base, so it's, you know, relationships are built, but if you want to play, you play by Chinese rules. So spreading democracy partly didn't work because we have to play by China's rules.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JLJames Lindsay
And that's... The Belt and Road Initiative is meant to create a global, uh, global south network, so we're the global north. That's, you know, South America, parts of Africa, a lot of like Indonesia, A- uh, India, and then China. Of course, BRICS just throws Russia into that mix, but otherwise, that's who you're talking about. And China's setting itself up to be the kind of global superpower or hegemon of that entire project, and we're talking about, you know, the flow of trillions of dollars of, of goods, and, and oil, and energy, and whatever every year, so that's a huge thing to play with, and it turns out, I don't think... If, if we take Vivek's line, we got outfoxed in the deal, so spreading democracy, you know, there are lots of these cultural reasons, "Oh, they're not ready for democracy." I don't know, maybe.... maybe some places, maybe not some places. But there are other pressures too, that we've been asleep to. We're not pa-... We have not been paying attention as a country. Maybe some of our, like, state department people have been, to China for the, the way that we should have been. Like, we, we should have been in the '80s and '90s like, "Oh no, China." Right? But we were like, "Oh yeah, China. Okay, cool. Yeah. Go like, make all of our cheap stuff for us."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they've done an amazing thing in combining communism with capitalism.
- JLJames Lindsay
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because if you just have North Korea, you never develop a real superpower.
- JLJames Lindsay
Thank you f-... Thank you, Joe. I, I beat this drum and I get called crazy all the time, because what I'm trying to tell people is that communism is what's happening to this country. Okay? But it doesn't look like communism, 'cause it's like, how is Nike communist?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
And I'm picking on Nike. No. How is Boeing? Let's become Boeing instead. How is Boeing communist? You know, they've all these... How is Disney communist? Right? They're huge mega corporations. What did, um, what did Google just lose over (laughs) its stupid AI? $90 billion or something. It's something insane, like I didn't even know they had that much money to lose. And it's like, holy crap, you know, in stockholder value or whatever, or shareholder value. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think it was only nine billion.
- JLJames Lindsay
Was it? I thought that was Bud Light that was nine.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no. Bud Light was 27.
- JLJames Lindsay
Holy... But look at what we're, we're like haggling over, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Insane amounts of money.
- JLJames Lindsay
... 11, 12 figure, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
I know, right?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. And so it's like at least 10 figure numbers of money. Like Elon kind of rolls in that department, but nobody else does. So anyways, what... Where was I going with this? 'Cause this is huge. Oh, the communist. Why, how am I in the world are these huge things communist, right? So communism didn't work, right? Soviet Union sucked. North Korea sucked. Cuba sucks. Like I'm sure it's like geographically beautiful, but we know those places are dysfunctional as hell.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 19:56 – 23:24
“Communism with capitalism”: Deng Xiaoping, elite meetings, and a thesis of engineered China’s rise
- JLJames Lindsay
We can go to the Eastern Bloc, they're still devastated in a lot of ways. They're still not all the way together. Like communism didn't work. But if we think of like what Marx did, leading up to say 1917 when Lenin kind of took over as Communism 1.0, that never really even got off the ground. Then Lenin got it off the ground and you get the Soviet model, which is... Soviet just means committee, by the way, if you didn't know that. It's like a ruling council or committee. So the Soviet model takes over with the, with what they called Marxism-Leninism, and that worked, kinda. It worked, it's a... They still had it in China till Mao died. They had it in Soviet Union until what, '89, '90, '91, something like that when it fell. But what happened was when Mao died, like the Soviet Union wasn't doing great, it was starting to fall apart. A new model got picked up and nobody's... We talk about Mao Zedong sometimes, and I, I would love to talk (laughs) to you all day about Mao, that's my new research project, but we don't talk about his successor. His successor was Deng Xiaoping, and this is where I actually disagree with Vivek about what I was just saying. Deng Xiaoping had a saying that was, "I don't care if the cat is black or white as long as it catches mice." And what he was talking about was, "I don't care if we use markets or we use a Soviet style central committee to organize our society, as long as China's economy comes back." That's what he really meant. And so Deng didn't come up with this new model to open the markets on his own. We didn't go to China to spr-... Necessarily just to spread democracy, we went to build China. And who's we? Well, let's name the names. Who was in the meeting? And there's a movie about... So- some of these meetings were in China, and there's not a movie, but there's a movie called Mr. Deng Goes to Washington that took place in Washington DC. So you can go watch the movie. I'm not making this up. Deng Xiaoping was the leader of China. He's already networking with, with Klaus Schwab from the World Economic Forum in his spacesuit, but he meets with... And the list of people were Henry Kissinger, uh, Zbigniew, uh, Brzezinski, allegedly T.H. Chan, David Rockefeller, and the sitting new emperor or whatever, CCP chairman of China, Deng Xiaoping, and they cook up this plan to open Chinese markets. And the plan was to, maybe to spread democracy into America, but I suspect it was mostly to get really rich. We opened those markets, huge amount of money, giant multinational corporations are not tied to any geographical place, and they can get rich off their balls. Now, some of these guys I think were also ideologically motivated. The Rockefellers have funded communist crap all over the world for, for a very long time. China was communist. Deng Xiaoping said, "I'm not opening the market for the market, I'm opening the market for socialism, to make socialism productive." And so they had a... I think there was more of a plan there than we take, take t- into account, which means Vivek gives... I need a tinfoil hat. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJames Lindsay
Vivek sees that our motivations in building China weren't necessarily good. I think the motivations for building China were to create the pincher of a trap that's called Thucydides's Trap in ancient kind of military strategy, that the only escape from would be to facilitate China's rise and decimate the West in order to avoid a nuclear-tipped World War III.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JLJames Lindsay
And I think they knew what they were doing and were gonna get rich on it.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you knew... You think by spreading democracy, their idea was to reinvigorate China's economy so that China becomes a threat?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. So as China gets... So the, Thucydides-
- JRJoe Rogan
That is so 4D chess-
- JLJames Lindsay
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... the back pages of Reddit conspiracy. (laughs)
- 23:24 – 27:28
Klaus Schwab controversies: mentor networks, disputed family claims, and media “fact-check” parsing
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, listen, we know that... We know that Klaus Schwab is ki-... If there are conspiracies, the, the James Bond villain kind of not quite outta central casting-
- JRJoe Rogan
See the photo we have of him in the bathroom?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
With the Darth Vader outfit on?
- JLJames Lindsay
With the, with the space suit. I'm the one who told you about his space suit.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JLJames Lindsay
We put it up on the screen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, yes, yes.
- JLJames Lindsay
Klaus... Do you know who Klaus Schwab's mentor was?
- JRJoe Rogan
I do, but I forgot.
- JLJames Lindsay
Henry Kissinger-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's right.
- JLJames Lindsay
... who was in the same meeting. This is a Harvard block.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, his whole fa-... His father was a Nazi.
- JLJames Lindsay
That's, that's... I can't vet that for positive sure, but that's what I have heard.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it... What is the so-... What is the truth of that? Let's find out. Who is Klaus Schwab's father? At least his father did something, like-
- JLJames Lindsay
Wasn't he the guy that was like bringing-
- JRJoe Rogan
... coordinating with the Nazis.
- JLJames Lindsay
... like the nuclear technology for the Nazis to South Africa or something like that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Some- something crazy like that.
- JLJames Lindsay
I mean, I know the story vaguely. I knew it at one point, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Because I... Look, you can't help who your father is, right?
- JLJames Lindsay
That's correct.
- JRJoe Rogan
And if, you know, unfortunately-
- JLJames Lindsay
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
... you get born, your dad's a Nazi, like I am.
- JLJames Lindsay
... I'm much less worried about Klaus being a Nazi than I am like... He has an interview he gave where he's in his, his office, and behind him up on the bookshelf is a bust of Lenin.How the hell did that get there? Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
... other than Jordan Peterson, who puts one of those up?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh.
- 27:28 – 37:33
ESG as corporate social credit: origins at the UN, impact investing, and “behavior forcing”
- JRJoe Rogan
So, uh, environmentalism, social... what is it? Environmental social governance?
- JLJames Lindsay
That's right, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's ESG.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that stands for exa- like, what is the goal of ESG?
- JLJames Lindsay
Corporate control.
- JRJoe Rogan
The stated goal. The stated goal.
- JLJames Lindsay
Oh, no. So, it is to create the... it- it is to create a metric, a measurement tool, to assess the likely long-term viability of a corporation based on its environmental, social, and internal corporate governance policies.
- JRJoe Rogan
Long-term vi- viability for the nation?
- JLJames Lindsay
No, for the corporation.
- JRJoe Rogan
For the corporation.
- JLJames Lindsay
Because here's what's going on is ESG was created at the- at the United Nations in 2003 by a guy named James Gifford, and the point was he said, "Well, there's at that point about $6 trillion of money that's sitting out there." It's people's pensions. It's like passive, right? Mutual funds, index fun- all this, uh, mutual funds particularly, 401 (k) s. There's state pension funds in particular. $6 trillion in the world sitting out there, that's just people's retirement funds gaining interest, playing in the market through this, you know, money management. And the question James Gifford asked was how... he was a forest guy. He was like, "How do we apply that to saving the forests, save the trees," right? And so he came up with this idea that if we had environmental assessments, anytime you have a metric, you can use that metric in some way or another, in other words, or you can game that metric. If we had metrics to say, "Well, how environmentally compliant are companies?" Like kind of an extension of corporate social responsibility, they used to call it. If we can measure that, then what we can do is we can start directing... you know, we can say, "Well, companies that have a long term, or that- that have good environmental policy have a better long-term portfolio." But these are 30-year investments 'cause they're people's pensions, so it's long-term success that we're interested in, not boom and bust cycles in the market. So, the- the stated ambition, not just to do what I said, but is specifically to do that, to bring that passively invested money into what they call impact investing. In other words, to do activism with investor money by investing in, you know, ener- green energy companies or green... other environmental companies or socially just companies, or, you know, companies with good governance. And in principle at least the good governance thing should work, but the thing is, is corruption exists. I don't know (laughs) how they neglected to account for that if we give them all the credit in the world. So like, right now it's super corrupt. I just did a podcast about this where I had this document. It's not like some mysterious document. It's on the Harvard website where they're talking about corporate bonuses, right? So it's Harvard Corporate Law website document, and they're talking about corporate bonuses and the corporate bonus structure, and that your governance score, your E- your ESG score, so the G part, will go up if you give corporate bonuses to yourself for implementing ESG. That's just naked corruption, right? And so that... so they can come in and say, "Well, you want a good ESG score?"... and they can make that important or whatever. I guess they have made that very important because everybody's doing it. And they say, "Well, if you want a good ESG score, you need to put an activist on your board, or, you know, 30% women on your board, or DEI requirements on your Boeing board." Or you have to have a good Corporate Equality Index score, which is published by the Human Rights Campaign, which means that you're not just having a non-discriminatory workplace for LGBT, but you're also promoting LGBT agendas. You're lobbying on behalf of bills one way or the other, and the legislature will tell you which ones. A couple of years ago, they told the airlines they needed to fly around, uh, activists to the Pride pola- parade, so they'd have more people at them, uh, for reduced-
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- JLJames Lindsay
... prices. Oh, yeah. Why do you think Dylan Mulvaney's face was on a beer can? The whole fallout of the Dylan Mulvaney explosion at Bud Light, all of it was about the CEI score, because then the Human Rights Campaign came out and said, "Well, you didn't stand up for Dylan, so we're going to lower your score anyway." And they were like, "Oh, no." And then everything got all tossed up. That these numbers mean a lot to people. So, the stated goal was to take... t- to create a set of measurements that they could use to justify taking trillions of dollars of other people's money and doing activist investing with it. And that all turned into the S is now DEI. It's woke. It's woke social justice. It's not social responsibility. It's whatever they want.
- JRJoe Rogan
I-
- JLJames Lindsay
Elon Musk bought Twitter, and the social score for Tesla went through the floor. Like, what did that have to do... And now all of a sudden, Tesla's a racist company, they accused him of. Like, what are you talking about, right? Th- they didn't like that he bought Twitter. Weapons manufacturers like Dick Cheney's Halliburton were, you know, social bad, bad, bad, bad. And then all of a sudden, the conflict in Ukraine bla- breaks out, and they're like, "Oh, we need, we need missiles." And they changed the score, basically overnight. That, that's, uh, because the social environment of the world changed. These are real things. Like, this is all verifiable. So, I think it's an instrument of... Maybe it wasn't meant to be in 2003. Maybe the guy just wanted to save the trees. But it's become an instrument of control and, and effectively a social credit system for corporations to force corporations. And that's what Larry Fink said about it on TV. He said, we're... You could pull up the... I'm sure we can find the video and pull it up, where he says that, "We're interested in forcing behaviors, and that's what we're doing."
- JRJoe Rogan
I want to get to that, but I still... I don't want to gloss over Klaus Schwab's dad.
- JLJames Lindsay
Klaus, no, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
I want to remember that.
- JLJames Lindsay
And I got a George Soros I'd love to not gloss over, too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JLJames Lindsay
Because he had a crazy interview in 2004 nobody knows about, and I think you'll get a kick out of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, hold what you were just saying, saying about Larry Fink. We'll put that...
- JLJames Lindsay
We, yeah, we're piling Jamie up there.
- JRJoe Rogan
The best I could find is this Newsweek story-
- JLJames Lindsay
And what does it say?
- JRJoe Rogan
... about whether he's linked to Nazi Germany. There, this is... I'll get down to here. There's a post. Get this on the screen. That's not him. That's not his dad, so that's a fake photo.
- JLJames Lindsay
No. Right. So, that, that starts there, and then-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JLJames Lindsay
... uh, there is... He was... He worked at this company, Eicher Weiss. This- Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
- 37:33 – 41:33
Speech policing and meme criminalization: Belgium case, private chats, and “extremism” labeling
- JRJoe Rogan
Jokes are on your... Well, did you see about that Flemish, um, guy who was a part of the government who's just got sentenced to one year in jail for sharing racist memes in a private chat?
- JLJames Lindsay
I saw that last night, yeah. Holy crap.
- JRJoe Rogan
A private chat. So if you got, like, um, you know, a fucking iMessage chat group, is that a private chat? Is it... Are they talking about that, or are they talking about social media platforms? Either way.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, or like-
- JRJoe Rogan
This guy's shared racist memes.
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, that was, like, when Tucker went to... Tucker Carlson went to Russia, which I'm kind of like, I don't know what that's about for sure, but Tucker Carlson went to Russia, and he finds out while he's there that the NSA is reading his encrypted signal chat.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have a theory about that. I don't think... N- if I was the government, and, uh, there was a bunch of these companies that do something like that, I'd make my own company.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, right. Of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or I'd infiltrate all of them.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Then I'm like, "Come on, guys. It's not really encrypted, right?"
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. (laughs) Totally.
- JRJoe Rogan
How the fuck do you know? I know a lot of people that trust those things, and they'll say wild shit on those things. "Hey, talk to me on WeChat or We-"
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, (laughs) I'm sure it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
... whatever.
- JLJames Lindsay
... totally owned by Facebook.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's fucking... Get the fuck out of here, bitch.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what... Y- Let's make a WhatsApp group.
- JLJames Lindsay
Oh, yeah, that's better.
- JRJoe Rogan
We- WeChat is the one that's always CCPed about.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah. WeChat's the Chinese one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
But, Jamie, so what was the story behind that?
- NANarrator
Which one? The, the Flemish guy?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- NANarrator
I'm reading it right now. I was trying to find out where they found the postings.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wh- I want to know what the tweets... what the memes were, if they're any good.
- NANarrator
It says they were accused of using a chat group to exchange racist, anti-Semitic, and other extremist comments, but I'm not finding-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but is it-
- 41:33 – 57:37
Politics of compliance: crisis narratives, scapegoats, and manufacturing consent for control
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, I th- I- I'm gonna... I get to take the tinfoil hat back. I think there's a strategy. I call this the politics of compliance, and I think that we've gone through it with everything. In fact-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
... I think it's, uh, it's the... It's all they do. It's the same thing over and over again, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
Whether it's COVID, whether it's MAGA's as deplorables, w- which worked, kind of backfired big time, right? And then, um, whether it's all the identity politics, uh, whether it's the environmental stuff. Even with this, though, what they do... And this is the politics of compliance. I just did this for Robert Malone. He had me come speak at his international crisis summit, and I'm sitting there, and I'm about to talk. It's like 9:00 in the morning. I'm not awake yet. I'm not a morning person. I'm like, "What the hell am I gonna talk about?" And so I get a, um... This idea comes to my head, uh, politics of compliance. So what it is, is that you start off by saying, "Look-... we're gonna have this glorious, better world, but there are people who are keeping us from getting there, right? So, there are the people who want to move forward into the glorious, better world, but then there's the enemies of the people who are dragging their feet, the deplorables, the climate deniers, the- it doesn't matter if the climate change thing is true or not because there's a label now, right? The Christian nationalists, there's a label now. Uh, the racists, the transphobes. So, we could have unity, but we can't have unity, you who are making the sacrifice, you got the shot in your arm, you did what you were supposed to, but we can't open up our society yet because these other people are dragging their feet or resisting. So, you have to have ways, then, why- why the fitness thing, right? You have to have ways to identify who the people are that aren't going along with the program. So it's like you, you got blown up for this. You're like, "Well, I got COVID. I feel like shit. I feel really, really bad." Did you know, by the way, last time I was here, I went home with COVID? Even though we did the test?
- JRJoe Rogan
You got COVID?
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, I went home, I had COVID. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
How'd you get it, do you think?
- JLJames Lindsay
I think from when I went out to dinner after this, 'cause I felt fine until I got home, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right from dinner? Like a couple hours later you started to feel-
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, there was somebody at dinner that had, like, a cold or something, so I think they had-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, they got it.
- JLJames Lindsay
But the COVID, it was like, so, I did, I barely got sick. So I didn't know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
... that it was, like- like, the person, I would've gone out to dinner. I wouldn't have thought I was sick.
- JRJoe Rogan
I didn't even say I really got really sick. That's part of the problem too.
- JLJames Lindsay
But the thing is that- that you became an emblem of the thing, that you're not allowed to talk about, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
The- the- the apple pectin, (laughs) the- the- the horse paste, right? And so you, there's all those articles. That's why you got, like, all that drama, you got, like, kicked off stuff, or whatever all happened to you, I don't remember exactly what happened, but you were- you were the pariah, man. Why? Well, one of the things I remember you talking about was health and fitness. Like, I'm healthy, I'm fit, I got this set of drugs, I took it, seems to work, I felt way better real quick, and they can't have that if they're trying to create this dynamic that all the people who are staying home and wearing a mask and, you know, cowering in fear primarily, or later getting the shot-
- JRJoe Rogan
And more importantly complying to pharmaceutical-
- JLJames Lindsay
Complying. That's why I call it the- the- the politics of compliance.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
So all of a sudden you became an emblem of, "Well, you know, maybe you should go outside and exercise sometimes."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
And that's a huge problem for that group of compliant people. And if you can whip them up or create conditions with misuses of power like our- many of our state governments and national or federal government did, Canada really did, and say, "Well, we have to keep everything closed down for your safety, and we could open it back- back up," except disinformation, right-wing extremists like Joe Rogan are out there pushing the wrong ideas. Well, in that case, you can get people to hate the person who's not going along with the program. That's why I call it the politics of compliance.
- NANarrator
This is what I could find about this story.
- JRJoe Rogan
The Flemish story, okay. (clears throat) So Belgium's far-right prodigy gets prison term for inciting violence. Whoo!
- NANarrator
So this goes back to 2018, so I'll sort of walk you through what I found.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. Okay.
- NANarrator
Um, this is the sentencing that happened.
- 57:37 – 1:06:43
Equity, socialism, and “burn it down” rhetoric: redistribution logic and anti-meritocracy incentives
- JLJames Lindsay
This woman who was in the Fox News this morning, so I had to double check, but she's talking about, was she from Maryland? She's in, she's in the government. She says that she wants to, she, she wants to burn the country to the ground so her ideology can rise out of it, out of the ashes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- JLJames Lindsay
Right? So she said this publicly in, her, she's the equity coordinator in one of these cities. Um, we can, if you can find it, Jamie, you can pull it up. I don't know. It was on Fox News, "Equity Coordinator Burn City Rise from the Ashes." You'll probably find it. So this, we know who's causing these crime problems. It's those DAs. We know who ran the DAs, who, who paid the money to run them. It was The Open Society Foundation. They call them Soros DAs. We finally broke the spell that saying that this very, very rich man and now his very, very rich son are using their very large amounts of money to do things that aren't necessarily great politically.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they used to be able to say if you criticize George Soros, you're an anti-Semite. And that was what they always went with.
- JLJames Lindsay
We gotta-
- JRJoe Rogan
They always went with that.
- JLJames Lindsay
Like, you gotta see this thing, and I don't wanna overload Jamie again, but in 2004, Soros gave an interview to the LA Times, (laughs) and you can actually look this up. I just thought, "That can't be real." It's real. He said that he thinks he's a god. He said that he always suspected that he might be a god and he kinda controlled it for a long time. And then finally, finally, he just kinda realized he is and he kinda gave into it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it possible that he was doing exactly what you were doing when you were making jokes about George Floyd and January 6th?
- JLJames Lindsay
I mean, maybe. I'm trying to think of a time-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it possible-
- JLJames Lindsay
... where I would have talked to the Los Angeles Times in a deliberate interview and said, "I, I'm, you know, I'm Zuill."
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe he was a little drunk and he was just like, "Why, why am I doing this bullshit interview?"
- JLJames Lindsay
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"I'm worth $30 billion. Let me just talk some shit."
- JLJames Lindsay
I mean, he's cre- it, he reads pretty intentionally, but it's, it's possible. Maybe George Soros was doing some shitposting to the LA Times.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was having a good time. They report those-
- JLJames Lindsay
I mean, I would shitpost. I would love to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
... shitpost these big journalistic outlets now, but 20 years ago? I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, now they're all falling apart. If you wanna shitpost, you better do it quick.
- JLJames Lindsay
I mean, you know what I did in the past. I did my shitposting.
- JRJoe Rogan
You did a lot of shitposting.
- JLJames Lindsay
I did some epic shitposting.
- JRJoe Rogan
What was the thing that we were just looking up before that, though?
- JLJames Lindsay
Uh, were we look, the, the Fox thing?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, 'cause like, you should see this. It's for real. I was like, I saw it this morning.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes, the lady said-
- JLJames Lindsay
I'm like, "What are you t-"
- JRJoe Rogan
... burn it all down and have her idea of what society should be rise from the ashes.
- 1:06:43 – 1:26:57
Trans/queer theory as cult-like doctrine: schools, Drag Pedagogy, limits, and medicalization
- JLJames Lindsay
That's why I call it neoliberal communism, and I say that that Deng Xiaoping character we were talking about earlier is, like, he's the, the guy that nobody knows about, except, I mean, the Chinese do, obviously. But we, we really need to pay attention to what he cooked up and how what they have-... at whether it's World Economic Forum or UN or the WHO, with their god-awful treaty to, you know, the health sovereignty thing. Have you seen... You know what I'm talking about, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
What is that?
- JLJames Lindsay
Well, let me finish the thought-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay, yeah.
- JLJames Lindsay
... and then we'll come back to it. W- they're, they're copying that same model. It's neoliberalism, which is how do you get huge corporations to be able to basically get tons of money and have monopoly power and make it off of the government. That's why the Rockefeller guy would have been i- interested in all this. And how do you do it with a communist ideology at the same time? China is the model. We're seeing it build out in the West. The stuff, like, we, we, we now are seeing proof, it just came out the other day that the Chinese are, like, funding the trans stuff. They're, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JLJames Lindsay
... pushing it, right? I just wrote a book, I didn't even know that to put it in the book. I wrote a book about the trans stuff, it just came out on the 29th, um, called The Queering of the American Child, to talk about how schools have been turned into, like, indoctrination centers. It all goes back to the not just Marxist but Maoist strategy to make the, the world conform, that politics of compliance, to make the world conform to this new ideological vision that they have. And th- it's gotta be, like, y- like we were saying, it's gotta be religious, uh, like, to the people who believe it. It's got to be-
- JRJoe Rogan
It is religious to the people who believe it.
- JLJames Lindsay
... new values, they even say that. Klaus Schwab said that you can't rationalize, or r- you can't... How did he say it? You can't rationalize values through the intellectual process alone, it requires faith.
- JRJoe Rogan
We've all seen children that grow up in religious cults. We've all seen the horror stories of children that come from these radical religious cults, and they, they escape when they get older, and they tell the story of the indoctrination and what all they believed. When I see a woman and she's got three trans kids, that is what I think of.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah, for sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think of someone who is a full adherent and, and ideologically captured by this cult, to the point where they see value in having their child be a part of the LBGTQ movement 'cause it looks with, good for them socially. It's like they have a flag on their fucking porch.
- JLJames Lindsay
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, and they, they wave their kids around, and it's weird.
- JLJames Lindsay
That's, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's not everybody.
- JLJames Lindsay
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not everybody. But it, it's not everybody that has trans kids or someone w- kid who thinks he's trans that's probably gay, and probably, if you leave them alone-
- JLJames Lindsay
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and d- don't encourage them to-
- JLJames Lindsay
Or a young woman-
- JRJoe Rogan
... castrate themselves.
- JLJames Lindsay
... with trauma or, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Autism.
- JLJames Lindsay
Autism, going through her per period-
- JRJoe Rogan
Period.
- JLJames Lindsay
... where she's like, "What's going on in my body?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JLJames Lindsay
"I don't like it."
- JRJoe Rogan
If you have girls, that's, that's a traumatic experience for them. It's very difficult. It's confusing. It's weird. You know?
Episode duration: 3:01:43
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Transcript of episode 8IlRNjBQm5Y
