Joe Rogan Experience #2135 - Neal Brennan

Neal Brennan 0:01 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

0:09 (instrumental music)

Joe Rogan 0:12 Dude.

Neal Brennan 0:13 On, in sketches. I could say for the air, but-

Joe Rogan 0:18 We're on the air.

Neal Brennan 0:19 Oh, we are on the air.

Joe Rogan 0:20 Yeah, we're rolling.

Neal Brennan 0:21 I just turned my monitor around 'cause I could see myself and I didn't wanna be. But what in sketches, I'll just open up with a Chappelle story 'cause that's what everybody thinks they're doing here. Dave would be watching himself-

Joe Rogan 0:35 On the monitors?

Neal Brennan 0:36 ... on the monitor.

Joe Rogan 0:36 Hmm.

Neal Brennan 0:37 And then, and I'd be like, (laughs) I don't know, man, just be in it. And then I'd turn and I'd tell the cameraman to turn around. He'd be like, "Did Neil tell you to turn around?"

Narrator 0:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:47 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 0:47 So he, so he couldn't watch himself. (laughs) It just felt like, you're just, if you're doing Rick James, maybe just be Rick James, not see yourself as Rick James.

Joe Rogan 0:55 Maybe it, like, affirmed-

Neal Brennan 0:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:57 ... that he's Rick James.

Neal Brennan 0:59 No, I- (laughs) Well, yeah-

Joe Rogan 0:59 When he saw the video.

Neal Brennan 1:00 ... Rick James would look at a monitor of him.

Joe Rogan 1:02 Yes.

Neal Brennan 1:02 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:03 In that character-

Neal Brennan 1:03 As a-

Joe Rogan 1:04 ... I would imagine.

Neal Brennan 1:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04 That's actually a good move.

Neal Brennan 1:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06 By the way, rest in peace, OJ Simpson.

Neal Brennan 1:08 Rest in... Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:09 Rest in peace.

Neal Brennan 1:09 Rest in peace, OJ. Juice.

Joe Rogan 1:11 We lost, we lost the Juice today.

Neal Brennan 1:11 We love you, Juice. (laughs) Juice, we love you.

Joe Rogan 1:15 Sam Tripoli, uh, posted something on Twitter today. It was OJ Simpson, it just said, "I did it." He, he posted it on Instagram.

Neal Brennan 1:22 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:22 But I guarantee you that that's fake.

Narrator 1:25 Yeah, it's like, it looks like a fake tweet.

Joe Rogan 1:26 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:27 I watched-

Narrator 1:28 How did not look like he did that before he passed away.

Joe Rogan 1:28 There's a lot of fake tweets.

Neal Brennan 1:29 There's a video of, uh, a compilation of Norm doing OJ jokes.

Joe Rogan 1:35 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 1:35 And it's 11 minutes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:38 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 1:39 And I watched it, I watched it and then went back-

Joe Rogan 1:42 (sighs)

Neal Brennan 1:42 ... and started, it was, it's so glory, it was so relentless.

Joe Rogan 1:46 He was so good.

Neal Brennan 1:47 He was so fucking funny.

Joe Rogan 1:49 He was so good.

Neal Brennan 1:50 We're talking about OJ. No, he was-

Joe Rogan 1:51 Ugh.

Neal Brennan 1:52 Norm was so fucking funny-

Joe Rogan 1:55 He was so good.

Neal Brennan 1:55 ... and the glint in his eyes.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Yes.

Neal Brennan 1:57 And half the time he was bombing on SNL 'cause it wasn't really his crowd.

Joe Rogan 2:02 Right.

Neal Brennan 2:03 And he didn't care.

Joe Rogan 2:05 No.

Neal Brennan 2:05 He did not care. And he kinda got fired for it.

Joe Rogan 2:08 Well, he had a, he had a view, you know? He had a, he had a, a, a, a frequency that he was on. And comics loved it and the audience loved it, but yeah, it wasn't, wasn't necessarily SNL.

Neal Brennan 2:22 Yeah, it was the, the audience, audiences, audiences at home liked it.

Joe Rogan 2:28 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 2:28 Yeah, it's 11 minutes of Norm just like-

Joe Rogan 2:31 Ugh.

Neal Brennan 2:31 ... and then this stare after the punchline as it's either working or not.

Joe Rogan 2:36 Ugh.

Neal Brennan 2:37 It's just glorious.

Joe Rogan 2:38 That's skinny Norm. Look how-

Neal Brennan 2:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:39 ... skinny he is there.

Neal Brennan 2:40 Yep. Suit too big.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Neal Brennan 2:44 And yeah, they didn't, it wasn't like-

Joe Rogan 2:46 One of the greats.

Neal Brennan 2:47 ... well, well, uh, it wasn't, like, lauded within SNL. So it was like his own, like, guerrilla unit.

Joe Rogan 2:54 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 2:54 Him and this guy Jim Downey, who wrote kind of all of it themselves.

Joe Rogan 2:58 Well, SNL seems like they handicap themselves, like they're handcuffing themselves.

Neal Brennan 3:03 Back then it was, but it-

Joe Rogan 3:04 Less, less back then, but now for sure.

Neal Brennan 3:08 I haven't watched very much. I'm, um, me and Jost are friends. I haven't, I just haven't seen it in a long time.

Joe Rogan 3:14 He's funny.

Neal Brennan 3:14 Yeah, Jost is very funny. But like-

Joe Rogan 3:16 He's very funny.

Neal Brennan 3:16 And, uh, but, but I haven't seen it. I, I, yeah, I haven't seen it. I had a sketch that I wanted Jost... I wrote so that, so the week Shane got fired, whatever, unhired, I thought of a sketch and I texted... I was gonna be in New York. And I have sort- I had like a sort of open door policy at SNL where I could just write 'cause I wrote there with Dave. So, so I had a sketch idea for Jost where it's like, it was a, it was a couple is getting ready to, they're in bed and they're like, "So any, um, STDs you wanna, you wanna tell me about?" And they're like, "No, I'm clean." And then, uh, "Any, uh, podcasts?"

Joe Rogan 3:58 Ugh. (laughs)

Neal Brennan 4:00 And we wrote, and then it was like, ah, I did one. It was, it was like, it was a good idea about Shane, but like whatever. And then we wrote it and then it kinda got shelved, like the- I, my understanding was some of the people at the show didn't appreciate-

Joe Rogan 4:19 (flatulates)

Neal Brennan 4:20 ... this. And then I was hoping Jost, I was gonna text Shane and be like, "Hey, there's a sketch you should do." But I didn't wanna be like-

Joe Rogan 4:26 There's room for-

Neal Brennan 4:26 ... you know, advocate.

Joe Rogan 4:27 ... a show like, well, Gillian Keeves is that. Have you watched Gillian Keeves? Shane's, Shane's show?

Neal Brennan 4:30 I am, I mean, I think I've seen a couple of his sketches, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Fucking amazing. It's fucking amazing. It's underappreciated. Within the sh- the Gillian Keeves fans it's really appreciated, but the mainstream does not know how good those sketches are. He does, uh, only, uh, OnlyFans Dad, a dad who needs to make money and so he, he does OnlyFans. (laughs)

Neal Brennan 4:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:49 It's fucking insane. It's insane. He does this Trump speed dating sketch. Oh my God.

Neal Brennan 4:54 Oh, that one I think I saw. That, that show's very funny.

Joe Rogan 4:56 They're so good. They're so good.

Neal Brennan 4:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:58 Because it's buck wild. Because they're on the internet and Patreon and you kinda get away with doing whatever the fuck you want, and it just has to be funny. And, but that's really, you can't do that anywhere. You know, if you're on network television, you're dealing with so many executives. They're all terrified and everyone's scared and e- everyone's ideologically captured and you, there's certain things you can't joke around about. And it's like, God, there's so much ground you can't cover. And it's just, you handicap yourself. You just, you just handcuff yourself. And-

Neal Brennan 5:27 Well, it's also the, the, as two aged men who have seen many parts of d- uh, many eras of show business, it seemed, it's, it's so r- the whole thing has got the, the... TV now feels like a 78-year-old woman who still thinks she's fine.

Joe Rogan 5:49 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 5:49 And it's like, bitch, you're not fine no more. You don't gotta carry yourself like, like you, like, you know, everyone wants to fuck me. It's like, not really.

Joe Rogan 5:59 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 5:59 You, you have all, like, the props from when everyone wanted to fuck you, but there's a lot of other women out here now.

Joe Rogan 6:05 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 6:05 And they still think... They haven't really adjusted. They kinda can't.

Joe Rogan 6:09 Right.

Neal Brennan 6:09 You know what I mean? Like, how do you reduce...... network television? How do you reduce late night TV? How do you reduce sketch shows? How do you- it's all-

Joe Rogan 6:17 The real problem is the format.

Neal Brennan 6:18 ... still has to be what it always was.

Joe Rogan 6:19 The format is just- it's so restrictive. The fact that you have to break for commercials, the fact that you have a specific amount of time. I- uh, all that is just- you can't compete with the internet because of that. It's just- you just can't. And then you have all the meddling. I mean, you've done-

Neal Brennan 6:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:38 ... network show, I mean, you've dealt with Comedy Central. It was fucking insane over there. It was insane trying to tell them what is funny and what is not funny.

Neal Brennan 6:45 I will say-

Joe Rogan 6:46 It was insane.

Neal Brennan 6:46 ... after six episodes of Chappelle's Show, they actually said, I believe the quote was, "We don't understand your show."

Joe Rogan 6:53 No!

Neal Brennan 6:54 "So kinda just do whatever you want."

Joe Rogan 6:56 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 6:57 They really said, like, "We don't understand your show."

Joe Rogan 7:00 Yeah, because it's funny.

Neal Brennan 7:01 Right. But-

Joe Rogan 7:01 Because it was really fun-

Neal Brennan 7:01 No. Well, that was the thing, there was a- there was a- they- we ma- we did this sketch at the Mad Real World and one of the execs said, like, "It's an unfunny- it's a collection of unfunny scenes back-to-back."

Joe Rogan 7:15 Wow.

Neal Brennan 7:15 And it- and I- and I was like, "Well, could we at least show it to the audience? Do you mind?" And then we showed it and it crushed.

Joe Rogan 7:24 Of course.

Neal Brennan 7:25 And then I kind- it's the on- and I- and I- and I got in the exec's kinda ear and I was like, "I heard what you said about the sk-..." And she was like, "Hey! Neil, take it-" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:35 Oh, they were back.

Neal Brennan 7:35 'Cause I was like-

Joe Rogan 7:36 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 7:36 ... I was kind of-

Joe Rogan 7:37 Attached to it.

Neal Brennan 7:38 I was attached to it and I was also very- I knew, it's- with any of these things, w- d- you know, you, Dave, any- anyone who's the star of the show, they're jumping out of the plane. Let them pack their own chute. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 7:52 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 7:52 Like, you're jumping out of the plane. If you don't wanna say it or you're not confident in it, then you shouldn't have to say it.

Joe Rogan 7:59 Right.

Neal Brennan 7:59 And they wanted to pack the chute the way they thought a chute, uh, parachute should be packed and it's like, no, then let the jumper do it and if it doesn't work, then you guys can battle.

Joe Rogan 8:08 It's really like someone who's watched surgery who wants to cut. It's- it's so dumb. It's so dumb.

Neal Brennan 8:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:13 They don't know what they're doing and they- their instincts are almost always wrong. And if they're lucky, they find someone who's really good who can kinda work around their nonsense and still create a quality show. But a lot of the times, it just gets in the way so much that you- you get, like, 60%, 70% of what you could have had.

Neal Brennan 8:32 Yeah, and you gotta come- you gotta also hope that you get- they- that the audience overwhelms the network.

Joe Rogan 8:38 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 8:38 Meaning South Park got off to a hot start.

Joe Rogan 8:42 Well, it was- South Park was South Park before Comedy Central was Comedy Central, right?

Neal Brennan 8:47 Yeah, they made a video.

Joe Rogan 8:48 Comedy Central- they were a little wilder back then.

Neal Brennan 8:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:50 Comedy Central was kind of the renegade.

Neal Brennan 8:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:52 You know, and then South Park became so undeniable, you had to just leave them alone. They were so good, you just had to go, "Just shut the fuck up and leave 'em alone."

Neal Brennan 8:59 Yeah. And that kinda has to happen.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 9:02 So, like- and it kinda happened with Chappelle's Show pretty quickly. Like, after the blind white supremacist came, it was the first episode, so they were kind of like, "Oh," and then the ratings were good, so they kinda didn't- they tried to meddle, but they kind of- their heart wasn't in it.

Joe Rogan 9:15 It hit a cultural landmark.

Neal Brennan 9:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:17 It hit- it hit this thing where Chappelle's Show was the show. It's like, "When is it on? When is it on again?" And people just-

Neal Brennan 9:24 Yeah, whereas The Man Show was more like-

Joe Rogan 9:26 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 9:27 ... "Ah."

Joe Rogan 9:27 Yeah. It was like, "Eh."

Neal Brennan 9:27 "You know, it's doing-"

Joe Rogan 9:28 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 9:28 "... pretty good. I think maybe we could help it somehow."

Joe Rogan 9:31 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 9:32 Or they're- it's- you kinda either wanna- you need to- if you- you just have to succeed in a big way and then they'll stop.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Yeah. They- it has to be so undeniable that they have to get outta the way. And you have to actually say that, "You gotta get outta the way. Like, leave us alone."

Neal Brennan 9:47 (laughs) But they don't-

Joe Rogan 9:48 "If you don't leave us alone- Yeah, if you don't leave us alone, we're not gonna do it." And- and that's the only way to do it. It's like y- that format is just so limiting. And, you know, that format was all that existed and that was the essential format for television. That was the only way to do it. You had commercials, you had an 8:00 PM time slot, this is all simple. You have 44 minutes with commercials. Do it.

Neal Brennan 10:08 What would you do if you were the owner of NBC Univers- you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what these companies should do.

Joe Rogan 10:16 Well-

Neal Brennan 10:16 Comedy Central's basically a production company now, like they don't-

Joe Rogan 10:19 Yeah. Well, they're doing the right thing, I think, in switching to streaming, right? So i- it's just a matter of being able to get enough quality stuff on streaming and g- get people over there. So they- they're gonna have to shell out a lot of money for big properties, and they've done that with, like- you know, Disney's done that and Paramount's done that and a- a few of these viable streaming platforms have managed to make, like, really good shows and put them on streaming. And then they can still do that. You know, like, there's shows like Shogun, you know, which is just fucking so good. But, you know, it exists in both. It exists in streaming and on television and- and they- they kind of make it for that, you know. You still have the commercial breaks, but when you watch on streaming, you just get the full episode.

Neal Brennan 11:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:04 And-

Neal Brennan 11:04 I also think there's probably very little input from advertisers, meaning-

Joe Rogan 11:08 Right.

Neal Brennan 11:08 ... if something's popular, people will just wanna advertise on it.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Right.

Neal Brennan 11:12 They won't give a shit-

Joe Rogan 11:13 Right.

Neal Brennan 11:14 ... what the message- is it family hour?

Joe Rogan 11:16 Right.

Neal Brennan 11:16 Is this- does this line up with Procter & Gamble's values or any of that shit?

Joe Rogan 11:21 Right. Right.

Neal Brennan 11:21 It's just like, "Uh, yeah, are there eyeballs? Let's go."

Joe Rogan 11:24 Yeah. But even then, I mean, there's people that try to push back even against Shogun. There was this thing about, like, why are there no black people on Shogun? Like, well-

Neal Brennan 11:32 Ah.

Joe Rogan 11:33 Well, what do you think it's about (laughs) ? It's about Japan.

Neal Brennan 11:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:36 It's like, what are you talking about?

Neal Brennan 11:38 It's about- I thought it was about guns.

Joe Rogan 11:38 It's about Japan in the 1600s. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Neal Brennan 11:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:41 This is exactly what it is. You know?

Neal Brennan 11:44 Yeah. I'm- I hope that didn't get very far.

Joe Rogan 11:46 No, it doesn't get far.

Neal Brennan 11:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:47 But it's like, they try and that's the- indicative of the kind of pressures that those people feel behind the scenes.

Neal Brennan 11:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:53 'Cause behind the scenes, it's all a bunch of grifters. It's all a bunch of network executive grifters that are all just working the DEI angle and they're trying to make- like, where's the diversity? I mean, how many times have you had pitches where you bring it in and they're like, "Where's the diversity?" Like, they-

Neal Brennan 12:06 I don't have that problem 'cause I generally come with a diversity (laughs) . Like, I- I am Mr. White Diversity but, like, I hear you.

Joe Rogan 12:12 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 12:13 And yeah, I don't- the- the DEI behind the scene shit, I think that they're just...... they're scared.

Joe Rogan 12:21 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 12:22 They're just scar- there's just like, what's the latest priority, culturally? So then they go like, "We have to service that priority or I'm gonna get in some kind of trouble."

Joe Rogan 12:32 100%, yeah.

Neal Brennan 12:32 And they don't know, they don't, they- they're just blowing in the wind.

Joe Rogan 12:35 And they're so expendable. You can move network executives around like chess pieces, just move them around, like-

Neal Brennan 12:41 Chess, that overstates-

Joe Rogan 12:42 ... get rid of them. Yeah, not even chess pieces.

Neal Brennan 12:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:44 Yeah. It's not even tic-tac-toe.

Neal Brennan 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:46 Just move them along. Th- they don't matter, they really don't matter. And basically, anybody could do that job as long as you have good quality television. As long as the people that are making it, you know, the Paul Simms of the world, the people that make really good shows, just leave them the fuck alone and they'll make great things.

Neal Brennan 12:59 Well, yeah, that's the thing I always wanna say is like, my standards are higher than yours.

Joe Rogan 13:04 What you actually understand it.

Neal Brennan 13:05 I wanna bomb less than you do.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Right.

Neal Brennan 13:08 I'm more, I don't want this to go poorly. I understand that it's because they're basically backseat drivers, they kinda are like extra, like, cr- over-cranked.

Joe Rogan 13:18 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 13:18 But, like, you know, it's, I, I'm worried. I'm more worried than you. I'm, again, jumping out of the plane.

Joe Rogan 13:26 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 13:26 Let me pack the parachute.

Joe Rogan 13:27 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 13:28 But that's, that's why, that's not why they moved to LA.

Joe Rogan 13:31 (laughs) Well, they also want to m- make their mark on everything.

Neal Brennan 13:35 Yeah, that's exactly right.

Joe Rogan 13:36 They wanna jizz in the soup every chance they can.

Neal Brennan 13:39 There was a thing, uh, I remember on, when we were doing Half-Baked, I wanted to do, uh, I wanted to say, "Hey, let us do what we want and then at the end, we'll pass around a hat and you guys can take credit for something."

Joe Rogan 13:52 Ugh.

Neal Brennan 13:52 I'm like, "Oh, the title. Okay, that's not bad. Oh, the cat." Like, just take... we... just let us do the fucking thing-

Joe Rogan 13:59 Right.

Neal Brennan 14:00 ... but that's... they wanna do the fucking thing.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Yeah, always. Always.

Neal Brennan 14:03 They want you to get started.

Joe Rogan 14:05 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 14:06 You, you get this started and then I'll come in and be a producer. I'll be my- what I imagined a producer was.

Joe Rogan 14:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 14:13 And they d- but they don't have any original... I mean, but the good news is, you kinda defeated them. I mean, podcasts, YouTube, etcetera, it's like they're on there, it's hard not to kind of st- curb stomp them.

Joe Rogan 14:30 Well, just, they almost can't compete with the instantaneous access, the free access. You can get it anywhere. Get it on your phone, you get it on a tablet, you get it on your computer, you get it anywhere, and it's available anytime you want it. You could pause it, you can leave, you don't have to wait for a time slot, you can watch all of them when they come out. It's just that, that format that exists, like the Netflix format of releasing the entire season of shows, you can't compete with that.

Neal Brennan 14:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:55 People love that. They love binging.

Neal Brennan 14:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:58 They love it. They, they love the fact that it's available anytime you want it. They love the fact there's no commercials. All that shit is just... they're just trapped. And if I was a network executive, if I was at the top of the food chain, I would be really thinking like, "Is there another way to do this? Does it have to be this way? Does it have to be commercial breaks?" Because nobody watches those, they're not good, they're not funny.

Neal Brennan 15:19 Okay, but you... I've heard, and I haven't experienced because I haven't made a show at Netflix other than stand-up, the, there are things that they, they need you to hit certain shit by minute 10, uh, the end of every episode has to be a cliffhanger.

Joe Rogan 15:36 Oh, really?

Neal Brennan 15:36 That's what I've heard. I haven't experienced firsthand but... So, so it's... as a, you know, show creator, I wonder if there is a imperative to want it. It's... you kinda wanna know the, with the information-

Joe Rogan 15:50 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 15:50 ... in terms of like when do people turn the shit off?

Joe Rogan 15:53 Right.

Neal Brennan 15:53 When do... it will, will... I heard something like if they watch the first three, then they'll watch 10. Like, you have to... so they're like, "Front load the first three with plot, character, maybe se-" I don't even know what the info, so I'm kinda talking out of my ass a little bit, but I do know that they have information.

Joe Rogan 16:13 So it's a formula.

Neal Brennan 16:14 That they're... yeah, that they want... it's like you want people to watch your shit or not?

Joe Rogan 16:18 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 16:18 Like, I, I, I... in my, my new special's 53 minutes 'cause I don't need it... I never, I've never been like, "Oh, good. It's an hour 20." I... it's never better longer to me. And I...

Joe Rogan 16:33 53 minutes is perfect.

Neal Brennan 16:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:35 It's perfect.

Neal Brennan 16:36 Um, uh, and I move jokes up. I was like, that's a... that joke, that's... it's like when you do the live show, the first really big laugh, like in my live shows, probably at, I think it was at 11:00 and I... so in, in Netflix, I moved it up to like 7:00 or 8:00.

Joe Rogan 16:54 Mm-hmm. Just get it in there quick.

Neal Brennan 16:54 You know what I mean? Like, like the big, big, like, "Oh, fuck," like a different energy laugh-

Joe Rogan 17:00 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 17:00 ... move it up.

Joe Rogan 17:01 That's weird, though.

Neal Brennan 17:03 But I, but I'm-

Joe Rogan 17:04 You get it.

Neal Brennan 17:04 It's, it's a form.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 17:05 I'm de- I'm meeting them where they are.

Joe Rogan 17:08 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 17:08 Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 17:09 I know what you're saying. Yeah. But it's-

Neal Brennan 17:10 Like, I don't feel like I'm selling myself out or like I'm...

Joe Rogan 17:14 Right.

Neal Brennan 17:14 ... uh, the integrity of my act. It's like that's just how I did it.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Right. You're just formatting it for this very pres- specific system as opposed to a live show-

Neal Brennan 17:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:22 ... where you're like setting things up and-

Neal Brennan 17:24 Yeah, and at a live show, they can't-

Joe Rogan 17:26 They're not going anywhere.

Neal Brennan 17:27 ... go anywhere.

Joe Rogan 17:27 (laughs) They're, they're there, they're there 'cause they wanna be there.

Neal Brennan 17:30 They're invested. At home, they can watch everything ever recorded.

Joe Rogan 17:34 Yeah. Right. Right.

Neal Brennan 17:36 I'm competing with everything that's ever been made. The Godfather.

Joe Rogan 17:40 Yeah. Everything.

Neal Brennan 17:40 Can I beat... is this better than The Godfather?

Joe Rogan 17:42 Apocalypse Now.

Neal Brennan 17:43 Yep.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Heat.

Neal Brennan 17:44 Yep.

Joe Rogan 17:45 It's all on.

Neal Brennan 17:45 That's right.

Joe Rogan 17:46 It's all on.

Neal Brennan 17:46 Rocky, Rocky.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Anything.

Neal Brennan 17:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:49 All of it.

Neal Brennan 17:49 And every comedy special.

Joe Rogan 17:51 Every one of them.

Neal Brennan 17:51 And Norm.

Joe Rogan 17:52 Yep.

Neal Brennan 17:52 And OJ. And-

Joe Rogan 17:54 And Patrice.

Neal Brennan 17:55 Yep.

Joe Rogan 17:55 Yeah, everything.

Neal Brennan 17:55 Yep.

Joe Rogan 17:56 All the old stuff, all the new stuff, everything all together.

Neal Brennan 17:58 Yep.

Joe Rogan 17:59 It's an insane time for your attention. Like-

Neal Brennan 18:02 Yes.

Joe Rogan 18:02 ... just to try to captivate people's attention now is just, it's an insane proposition. There's just so much available.

Neal Brennan 18:07 Are you... I mean, the, what's funny is you kind of... it's... you're not... it's not even The Tortoise and the Hare, you just haven't changed. You're just like, "I don't know, I just talk for fucking three hours."

Joe Rogan 18:19 Well, this is what I did in the beginning, so I just keep doing what I do. I do it 'cause I like doing it this way. And in the beginning, like, Ari was the first one, he was like, "You gotta edit it. You have to edit it. No one wants to listen to three hours."

Neal Brennan 18:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:30 I'm like, "Then don't listen." It's that simple. I don't care. I'm just gonna do the best thing that I can do, do it how I feel like doing it, and that's it.

Neal Brennan 18:40 ... yeah, but you know that doesn't work-

Joe Rogan 18:41 Duh.

Neal Brennan 18:42 ... for most people, most of the time. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:43 Most of the time it doesn't work, but it works.

Neal Brennan 18:45 Well, I'm not even say- You know it worked.

Joe Rogan 18:46 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 18:46 But I'm saying, like, do you th- ever think about why, or do you even give a shit?

Joe Rogan 18:51 Um-

Neal Brennan 18:51 It's none of your business.

Joe Rogan 18:52 I think if you think about why, you'll second guess your own instincts.

Neal Brennan 18:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:56 And that's never good.

Neal Brennan 18:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:57 'Cause they've been good to me so far. I, I know what I'm... I just stick with me. I know what I like. And if I'm actually, genuinely interested in that thing, the subject, I think other people will as well. Like, if I bring on someone who's a beekeeper, I don't think, "Wow, this is gonna be a big episode."

Neal Brennan 19:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:13 All I think is like, "I'm interested in bees."

Neal Brennan 19:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:15 "I wanna talk to someone who's really interested in bees." Like, "Tell me what, uh... How do you do it? What's going on? What's ha- what ha-" (laughs)

Neal Brennan 19:20 What is your te- Do you look at which episodes do well, or are you just-

Joe Rogan 19:24 No.

Neal Brennan 19:24 ... fire wall it?

Joe Rogan 19:25 No.

Neal Brennan 19:25 None of your business?

Joe Rogan 19:26 None of my business. Yeah, I don't care. I don't pay attention. I mean, I know, I hear. I hear, "This one's huge, this one's huge," whatever. I don't pay attention. I just... If this is what I'm interested in, I wanna talk to this guy. I had a mushr- I had Paul Stamets on yesterday, mushroom expert.

Neal Brennan 19:40 Great.

Joe Rogan 19:40 Amazing. Good at, uh-

Neal Brennan 19:41 Good fucking proto- The guy's got his own protocol.

Joe Rogan 19:43 I know. He's, that's his stuff right there, host defense. Um, all-

Neal Brennan 19:46 Is, is this siltzide?

Joe Rogan 19:47 That's not... No, no, no, no.

Neal Brennan 19:48 All right, gotcha.

Joe Rogan 19:48 That's, uh, agarikon and, uh, turkey tail. That's his, uh, immune, uh, stack that he uses. There's a, there's all sorts of, uh, medicinal mushrooms that have no psychoactive effects, uh, that-

Neal Brennan 20:01 And do they, is any of this stuff proven?

Joe Rogan 20:05 Yeah. Yeah, there's peer-reviewed studies, random controlled trials, uh, double-blind placebo-controlled styles with agarikon. Uh, yeah, we talked about that yesterday, too.

Neal Brennan 20:14 Great.

Joe Rogan 20:15 Yeah, he's a real scientist, so what, the stuff that he does is, uh, very, very legit. And, you know, he's also w- he's very diligent in the way he sources the mushrooms. They test them, find out which ones have efficacy, which ones don't. Because you can have, like, uh, he was explaining that agarikon, they've identified, he has 107 strains that he has, personally. And out of those strains, they've identified at least four of them that are like, the most hyper-beneficial, and they haven't tested them all. But those four, then that's the ones they sell.

Neal Brennan 20:45 Great.

Joe Rogan 20:45 Yeah, and then some of them are different from th- different things. Like, some of them are better for pox viruses, where other ones are better for, uh, RNA viruses. It's very, very interesting, very interesting what they've done.

Neal Brennan 20:58 Good. I mean, yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 20:59 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 20:59 ... you know, this shit is, it's co- It's, we have lived in a time with a, a good amount of change.

Joe Rogan 21:07 Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of change. There's a lot of change going on in this-

Neal Brennan 21:10 For better and worse.

Joe Rogan 21:11 Yeah, I don't know how much worse. Uh, there's a lot of confusion. But I think ultimately, there's more information, and that's always better. And there's more freedom of communication, although there's a lot of attempts at restricting fr- freedom of communication. There's still more, uh, avenues of communication than there's ever been before, which is always-

Neal Brennan 21:31 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:31 ... almost always good.

Neal Brennan 21:32 And, and we've talked about this before, but the trusting that people can, people can figure it out.

Joe Rogan 21:40 Yeah, well, they have to learn to figure it out, just like people had to learn what things to eat that are poison and what things are edible. You know? Like, you have to learn that, and we have to learn that with information. We have to learn that with everything. We have to learn that with styles of communication. We have to learn that with, uh, you know, people that are sh- really shitty to people. Like, the, people don't like that. That's not necessary w- and learn that. And we, people need to learn that, and that's how you learn it. You learn it by watching people sorta get ahead b- just by being cunts, and they'd only go so far, and the audience turns on them. And then, you know, recognize that some people are just, you know, communicators, and they're just calm and nice, and, d- that's better. And you could still get all the same information and still have, uh, interesting debates and conversations. You don't have to be a cunt.

Neal Brennan 22:22 Yeah, the, the, I, 'cause I think about I'm not very... So I feel like you're paranoid, or not paranoid, you're skeptical of control, right?

Joe Rogan 22:34 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 22:35 And I ten- And I, and I always go, "Why am I not skeptical of control?" Like, compared to you or compared to, like, a guy like Dave, who's also very skeptical of any sort of authority or, or-

Joe Rogan 22:45 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 22:46 ... uh, institution. And I think, I was thinking I'm so glad to not be under the Catholic Church anymore.

Joe Rogan 22:54 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 22:54 (laughs) That everything is better.

Joe Rogan 22:57 Right.

Neal Brennan 22:57 To me, like, the government, I don't give a fuck.

Joe Rogan 22:59 Right.

Neal Brennan 23:00 Like, I truly don't... Apple, you wanna listen in? Good. I don't give a shit. You can't send me to hell.

Joe Rogan 23:07 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 23:07 So I don't even care if you overhear me. I don't... I just, this is better than the way I grew up.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Right.

Neal Brennan 23:15 Even, uh... And then I'm, but I am, I'm skeptical. It's, it's one of those yin-yang things, where I'm skeptical of too much, uh, information chaos.

Joe Rogan 23:27 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 23:27 You know?

Joe Rogan 23:28 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 23:28 And it, it, it really... I'm sure the- this will be probably the balance of the next at least 20 years.

Joe Rogan 23:35 Well, information chaos is also engineered, and that's one thing to take into consideration. That i- information chaos is not always organic, and a lot-

Neal Brennan 23:42 I agree, but-

Joe Rogan 23:43 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 23:43 And then what about that? If, if-

Joe Rogan 23:45 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 23:45 If, you know, Russia or China-

Joe Rogan 23:47 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 23:47 ... are enem- are "enemies," qu- in quotes, wink-wink, whatever.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Yup.

Neal Brennan 23:52 Like, what... You know, if somebody, uh, if somebody's b- Dave made a point that if you're, if a country has racial divisions anyway, and then a, and then an outside actor so, you know-

Joe Rogan 24:06 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 24:07 ... foments them, it's the country's fault for having them in the first place. And it's like, yeah, but that's kinda bullshit, 'cause like, if there's a marriage that i- is having trouble, and then someone comes in and fucks with it, that's the outside person's fault. The, 'cause the married people want it to be good.

Joe Rogan 24:24 Right.

Neal Brennan 24:24 Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 24:25 Right.

Neal Brennan 24:25 Like, America's gonna have conflict naturally, and I think it's natural to have that. And it's okay to have that, and we need to figure that out. But the, once a outside actor comes in, I still blame the outside actor for fomenting. And that's, and I feel the same way with the information stuff. Like, I'm, I'm with you in terms of like, we do need freedom.... but I still blame the outside actor for coming and f- creating more chaos.

Joe Rogan 24:50 I think it's an unavoidable evil. If you're gonna have freedom, you're gonna have the freedom of bots. You're gonna have the freedom of people that hire people in these troll farms, where they have thousands and thousands of accounts, and they just push different narratives. And they get invol- you know, we had Ren- Renee DiResta on once, who studied this. And one of the things that she studied ab- about, one of the things that Russia had done during the 2016, uh, election was the creation of memes. And some of them-

Neal Brennan 25:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:18 ... were really funny.

Neal Brennan 25:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:19 And they were memes that were very specifically designed to push certain narratives and make fun of certain things, and that they had made so many accounts, thousands and thousands of accounts. They had actually organized, uh, a Texas secession meeting across the street from another meeting they organized.

Neal Brennan 25:36 I know. That shit was-

Joe Rogan 25:37 Which was, uh, uh-

Neal Brennan 25:37 It's so- it's so, like, Monty Python.

Joe Rogan 25:40 ... a Muslim meeting.

Neal Brennan 25:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:41 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 25:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:41 They- they wanted these people to be fighting with each other.

Neal Brennan 25:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:43 And they do that online constantly. There's so many times where I'll see something that's contentious, something that's, uh, socially, uh, eh, something that's, like, very explosive. And then I'll look in the comments, and I'll see some outrageous statements, and it's, like, a couple of letters and a number for the- the- the account, and I'll click on the account, and I'll go into it, "Oh, it's a fake account." How many of those are there? There's fucking hundreds of thousands, if not millions. There is an FBI analyst that, uh, that did an estimation, and he thinks that there's 80%, he thinks 80% of the Twitter accounts that are in a- that were in circulation, at least at the time, were trolls.

Neal Brennan 26:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:25 80%.

Neal Brennan 26:25 Yeah. And so th- that would be part of the information chaos thing-

Joe Rogan 26:32 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 26:32 ... that I- that I'm, like, a- a bit like, "This is gonna be bad." It's bad now, and it's probably only gonna get worse with AI and all that shit. And- and I don't- but I don't know what the... I don't know if we talked about this, but, like, if there was a governing body, uh, you know, let's say, like, over- not, uh, let's say, over all of social media sort of morality or whatever, or ethics.

Joe Rogan 26:57 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 26:58 Who would you even put on it?

Joe Rogan 27:00 You can't. It can't be done. It can't be done because the government can't be trusted 'cause they're doing it.

Neal Brennan 27:05 Right. But let's say-

Joe Rogan 27:06 The- the government is involved.

Neal Brennan 27:07 ... i- the- the people elected it. Do you know what I mean? If there was a way to get the-

Joe Rogan 27:10 No.

Neal Brennan 27:10 Right. Get around the government.

Joe Rogan 27:12 It's not possible.

Neal Brennan 27:13 For inst- like, I- who- who- Jon Stewart.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Yeah, but they would- people would have access to that. Like, Jon Stewart couldn't talk about China on Apple, so he got-

Neal Brennan 27:21 Right. He left.

Joe Rogan 27:22 He left. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 27:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:23 It doesn't work.

Neal Brennan 27:24 No, I'm with you. I'm-

Joe Rogan 27:25 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 27:25 But I'm- that's c- that's corporate. I'm saying, like, who are even-

Joe Rogan 27:30 I think the solution is more complex. The- the solution is-

Neal Brennan 27:34 No. Go on.

Joe Rogan 27:35 The sol- the solution is technology ramped up to a point where lying is impossible, and I think that is going to be tight. You're gonna be able to have opinions, but lying about specific facts, I think, is gonna be far more difficult with widespread use of AI and also when people have universal ability to translate languages instantaneously. Right now, it's a little clunky. You could read tweets, and you could say, "Translate the tweet." You can- you could do things like that, but you don't necessarily know what the fuck is going on. It- when it's universal, when you're gonna have instantaneous translation into that, you're- you're going to- it's gonna be far more difficult to deceive people when you have instantaneous access to AI, which is suppo- as long as the AI is not biased, which we've seen AIs programmed and the Google AI, you know, founding fathers.

Neal Brennan 28:31 We talked about this-

Joe Rogan 28:32 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 28:32 ... like, eight years ago when I pitched-

Joe Rogan 28:34 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 28:34 ... uh, Robo President. And then it became if there's a ro- if there's an AI president-

Joe Rogan 28:40 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 28:41 ... then it's- what- the thing that's gonna be argued about is, what information are we loading in?

Joe Rogan 28:45 Right. Right. And what are the values that the AI has? Like, i- is the values for the human race? Is the values for New York City? Is the value for the country-

Neal Brennan 28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:54 ... in general? Yeah. What is the values? And what i- what is its, uh, imperative? Like, what is it trying to do? Yeah. It's... But the thing is, like, that's rudimentary AI. As AI scales up and gets far more advanced, and it's gonna happen very quickly-

Neal Brennan 29:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:11 ... it's gonna bypass all that stuff, and it's gonna come up with some sort of a moral, ethical foundation that everybody is gonna have to operate under. That's g- it's gonna be very weird, Neil, and it's gonna be-

Neal Brennan 29:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:22 ... very w- weird very quickly. Very quickly.

Neal Brennan 29:24 I totally agree with you.

Joe Rogan 29:26 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 29:26 I completely agree with you. I mean, in some ways, whenever I hear about AI, I'm like, "Help us, AI." Come and s- when they're like, "It may obliterate us," I'm like, "But if it doesn't, please help us, AI."

Joe Rogan 29:37 It could both-

Neal Brennan 29:37 "Please help us get out of all this garbage we've gotten ourselves into."

Joe Rogan 29:40 Yeah, it could both help us and obliterate us. It's- it's gonna be a wild ride. It's gonna be a wild ride. And it's gonna-

Neal Brennan 29:47 What- when do you think it'll be?

Joe Rogan 29:48 Four years at the most. In four years, we're fucked. In four years, the- everything's tossed. Everything's fucked. I mean, there's so many things that- that are just- we kind of, like, let slide today that won't be a- you're not gonna be able to let, like, congressional insider trading slide.

Neal Brennan 30:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:06 It's goin- it's gonna be a real problem. You're not gonna be able to have bills where you have a border funding bill that also has funding for Ukraine.

Neal Brennan 30:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:13 Like, there- there's all that kind of stuff is gonna have to go by the wayside.

Neal Brennan 30:16 You think AI will prevent that?

Joe Rogan 30:17 Yeah. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 30:18 How come?

Joe Rogan 30:18 Well, because people will be able to analyze everything about every bill i- instantaneously. It's not gonna be as simple as, you know, you have to sit down and read a 2,000-page bill. It's gonna be- AI is gonna break it down, and it's also gonna break down who the people are that proposed the bill and then also what the influences these people have in terms of who their donors are. And you're gonna get, like, very specific breakdowns of what all these things are, and people will be far more informed.

Neal Brennan 30:45 I- my feeling on that is that people...... are, in some ways, are informed, and we're all kind of powerless to change it.

Joe Rogan 30:53 There's a little bit of that right now.

Neal Brennan 30:54 Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 30:55 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 30:55 Like, Citizens United or, like, dark money, or AstroTurfing, or, or, or porking bills, or tying things together, or emergency. It's just all the shit of, like, how the fuck are we supposed to even d- move the needle at all as people?

Joe Rogan 31:13 Right.

Neal Brennan 31:14 At all. It's, it seems impossible.

Joe Rogan 31:17 It definitely does now.

Neal Brennan 31:17 The way the shit's set up.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 31:20 Um-

Joe Rogan 31:20 It definitely does now.

Neal Brennan 31:21 And I don't, and AI doesn't seem like... Oh, I don't think the, I don't think the problem is a lack of understanding. I think the problem is a, it's the system is set up so that it's, the only way to get a law made is like getting a building named. You gotta have 10 million bucks.

Joe Rogan 31:37 Yeah, there's a little bit of that going on too. I mean, it's, there's no way to run for president unless you have hundreds of millions of dollars backing you, which is just insane. It's insane. And money in politics-

Neal Brennan 31:47 There's no way to run for Senate-

Joe Rogan 31:49 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 31:49 ... without, without a hund- you know, a hundred.

Joe Rogan 31:51 Right. You're, you're getting a job that's $150,000 a year, and you're spending hundreds of millions.

Neal Brennan 31:54 People in the primary have a hundred.

Joe Rogan 31:57 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 31:57 Sweetie.

Joe Rogan 31:58 Isn't that nuts?

Neal Brennan 31:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:59 Isn't that nuts?

Neal Brennan 31:59 Yeah, it's insane.

Joe Rogan 32:00 People like Nikki Haley, that had no chance of being president, had hundreds of millions of dollars behind them.

Neal Brennan 32:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:05 It's bananas.

Neal Brennan 32:05 And that's just like, "Oh, fourth runner-up."

Joe Rogan 32:08 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 32:09 "Congratulations." Yeah, it's a, it's, it's... And I don't... And that's one of those things where, like, how does AI help us? Supreme Court's locked in for as long as they live. Fucking insane.

Joe Rogan 32:22 Yeah. Pretty insane.

Neal Brennan 32:23 Yeah, until you die. A star cha- like, a sci-fi star chamber until you die. Wow.

Joe Rogan 32:30 And-

Neal Brennan 32:30 That's a horrible idea.

Joe Rogan 32:32 It's not even dependent upon whether or not your ideas are even, they even make sense. Like, did you see Ketanji Brown Jackson, who, they asked her what a woman is, and she said, "I'm not a biologist."

Neal Brennan 32:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:44 Like, right, but you're a woman. Like, maybe take a crack at that.

Neal Brennan 32:47 You know what's funny is because you, you go more right, you go to her and I'm thinking Alito.

Joe Rogan 32:52 What did Alito do?

Neal Brennan 32:52 You go, D- you see what's... Whatever. A- A- Alito, those guys-

Joe Rogan 32:55 Well, I'm just talking about one specific thing that's ridiculous.

Neal Brennan 32:57 Yeah, no, of course. Yeah, of course. Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:57 If you ask me what a man is, I can tell you what a man is.

Neal Brennan 32:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 And I'm not a biologist either.

Neal Brennan 33:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:01 But I am a man.

Neal Brennan 33:02 Yep. Uh, yeah, so the... I do worry about... I don't... To me, it's not even a lack of information. Sometimes it's a lack of information. I mostly think it's rigged against the people. It's rigged against the citizens to not have any say in any of this shit.

Joe Rogan 33:22 It definitely is somewhat, but you also do need someone who actually understands the law to withhold the Constitution, to uphold it, and to make sure that, like, you don't pass things that do violate very core tenets of how our society is structured. What did Alito do that was-

Neal Brennan 33:37 Oh, I don't know. I'm just, as a liberal, I'm just like, th- th- it seems like those guys want to, like, get-

Joe Rogan 33:44 I'm pretty liberal.

Neal Brennan 33:45 ... very right.

Joe Rogan 33:45 I'm just liberal what a liberal used to be.

Neal Brennan 33:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:47 You know?

Neal Brennan 33:47 No, that's what I'm saying, you learn more, lean more right. I learn... At this point-

Joe Rogan 33:50 I don't even lean more r- right. I lean more center, which is right now.

Neal Brennan 33:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:54 Like, it's just, it's so, the left has gone to, so far to the left. It's gone so far into this strange territory.

Neal Brennan 34:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:03 This bizarre land of cult-like thinking. It's very strange.

Neal Brennan 34:07 Uh, it's driven by the, it's sort of everyone's afraid of upsetting, uh, the, it's the tyranny of the minority.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Neal Brennan 34:18 No one can say, "Hey, do me a favor? Shut the fuck up, or we're gonna lose all of this."

Joe Rogan 34:25 Right.

Neal Brennan 34:25 If we make this about just your minor grievance or issue, we're gonna lose the whole thing, but they, it becomes about the various, you know, DEI or transgender or whatever, all these things that are, that are not unimportant, but they're just not the most important. And no, you're not allowed to say to someone anymore, "Your shit is not the most important thing." Ev-

Joe Rogan 34:52 Right.

Neal Brennan 34:52 Because of whatever the egomania of our culture, everyone's issue is the number one issue. And it's like, no, it's the number one issue for you, but it's not the number one issue for half of the population of the country.

Joe Rogan 35:05 Well, it's also the thing is if you oppose any of these protected ideas-

Neal Brennan 35:11 You'll get-

Joe Rogan 35:11 ... you, you get attacked.

Neal Brennan 35:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:12 You get attacked and labeled as the worst thing possible.

Neal Brennan 35:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:15 Whatever that is at the time.

Neal Brennan 35:16 When you're in, when you agree with them-

Joe Rogan 35:19 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 35:19 ... in 99% of other issues.

Joe Rogan 35:20 Yeah, yeah. It's-

Neal Brennan 35:21 But they, because it's, they just prioritize... It's just this thing of, like, no, this is, it's like the kids playing soccer where it's just-

Joe Rogan 35:27 Right.

Neal Brennan 35:28 ... running a bunch of, with this is the most important thing. And it's like, is this really? And then you can't go, "The fuck are you talking about?" You have to go, "Yes, uh, I honor." You have to start bowing, and, "I honor."

Joe Rogan 35:40 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 35:40 You have to do the Nancy Pelosi down on a knee with the Kinte cloth. It's like, no, that's an important issue. It can't be the mo- it might not be the most important issue. And then they go, "Well, then, we're n- we're gonna withhold our vote." Oh, really? You're a fucking child.

Joe Rogan 35:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Neal Brennan 35:57 And you don't understand the way politics work if you're gonna withhold your vote because of one issue.

Joe Rogan 36:01 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 36:02 Uh, and it happens, oh, and it's just, and it's also a revolving thing of, like, we're gonna withhold because of Israel. We're gonna withhold because of transgender. We're gonna withhold because of DEI. We're gonna withhold, uh, on and on and on and on.

Joe Rogan 36:13 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 36:13 And it's, as someone who is on their side, it's a bit like, "Oh, please shut the fuck up."

Joe Rogan 36:20 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 36:20 Because you're gonna blow this for all of us.

Joe Rogan 36:23 Well, each party becomes captured by the most extreme versions of it.

Neal Brennan 36:27 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:28 You know, you look at the right, the right gets captured by, you know, what people think of the right, they think of, like, Proud Boys or something like that.

Neal Brennan 36:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:34 They think of the-

Neal Brennan 36:35 Or guns.

Joe Rogan 36:35 Or guns.

Neal Brennan 36:35 Just gu- yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:36 The left they think of Antifa.

Neal Brennan 36:37 Or now abortion, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Yeah. There's always something.

Neal Brennan 36:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:40 There's always something that's ridiculous.

Neal Brennan 36:42 And there are, and then you, and then it turns out that, like, the Republican stats on abortion are like 55% of Republicans think abortion should be legal. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 36:51 (laughs) Yeah.

Neal Brennan 36:51 And it's like, well, then how the fuck did they-

Joe Rogan 36:53 Right.

Neal Brennan 36:53 ... because...... it's, you know, it's almost like they did ... It's, they always say about Republicans, they're like the dog who caught the car.

Joe Rogan 37:00 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 37:00 You know, like, they- they- they use r- uh, abortion as a, you know, driving issue, thinking like, "It'll never happen." And then they ... It happens and they're like, "Oh, fuck." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:11 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 37:11 "Okay, I guess this ..." (laughs) I guess Arizona goes, "Okay, we're going back to 1864," or whatever ... It's a law from the 1800s-

Joe Rogan 37:19 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 37:20 ... that they upheld two days ago.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Well, it's always interesting how ignorant people are about the west w- the rest of the world too. Like, "I'm going to Europe where women have the right to choose." Well, go to France, because they have a limitation there too.

Neal Brennan 37:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:31 It's like, I think it's-

Neal Brennan 37:32 Well, no. No one ever looks it up.

Joe Rogan 37:33 ... It's a national limitation.

Neal Brennan 37:34 Also, try to get a, try to get a citizenship. How you gonna do that?

Joe Rogan 37:38 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 37:38 How you gonna do it? Look it up once.

Joe Rogan 37:41 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 37:41 But they haven't looked it up.

Joe Rogan 37:42 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 37:42 I've been doing a joke about how American women are like, "American men are the worst." And I'm like, "Oh, who do you think's coming?"

Joe Rogan 37:48 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 37:48 Who do you ... Who's coming? Italian guys? First of all, they're bringing their moms. That's A. And B, you're gonna have to start cooking dinner at 2:15 every afternoon. I hope you're happy.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Well, that's the least of your worries.

Neal Brennan 37:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:59 Sharia law. That's the-

Neal Brennan 38:00 I mean, I ... That's the-

Joe Rogan 38:01 ... the biggest worry.

Neal Brennan 38:02 ... the ultimate punchline.

Joe Rogan 38:03 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:03 It's like, Middle Eastern guys? I'm not even gonna finish this joke. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:06 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 38:06 'Cause it's ... And they don't have the best sense-

Joe Rogan 38:08 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:08 ... of humor-

Joe Rogan 38:09 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:09 ... about, (laughs) about their ... Yeah, but if you look up, like ... Look up genital mutilation.

Joe Rogan 38:14 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:14 It's really grim-

Joe Rogan 38:16 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:16 ... uh, in terms of the ... What these other guys are out here doing ladies. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:22 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:22 Not like us American hero men. No, but it is ... It really is like a pretty ... People don't look it up. They just s- they like sulking.

Joe Rogan 38:29 Yeah, well also p- there's so many issues that most people are just not informed. They just know what their side goes with. And so-

Neal Brennan 38:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:37 ... they adhere to whatever the, whatever the doctrine is on their side.

Neal Brennan 38:41 I was ... I remember looking up abortion laws worldwide four or five years ago and being like, "Oh." (laughs) It wasn't as, like, blanket as I thought.

Joe Rogan 38:49 Well, Burr had the best bit on that. "I think you should have the right to choose, but I also think you're killing a baby."

Neal Brennan 38:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 38:55 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 38:56 I mean, at a certain point in time it is a baby. It's like, the question is like who gets-

Neal Brennan 39:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:01 ... to decide.

Neal Brennan 39:01 And that's the ... Right. That's the whole thing of when-

Joe Rogan 39:04 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 39:04 'Cause I did a joke s- uh, like, uh, I'm ... You know, liberals have to, uh, support everybody, not fetuses. Uh, and- and The New York Times wrote me up, like, "I just saw Neal Brennan do a sort of anti-abortion joke joi- and it was like joining Bill Burr and George Carlin." And I was like, "Are you trying to insult me?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:27 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 39:27 He goes, "Thank you for that fucking w- uh, (laughs) barbed insult." But- but yeah, like, the ... Even knowing when ... Even if you go, "No, I believe it doesn't start ..." It's all sort of, ah-

Joe Rogan 39:42 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 39:42 ... scientists, like, the heartbeat or the fetal whatever. It's all a bit like, you're all guessing.

Joe Rogan 39:48 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 39:48 And I will also ... I'll admit I'm guessing. It's just, which guess, uh, suits my needs? Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 39:56 Right. Right.

Neal Brennan 39:57 Like, what ... If I'm, if I got a girl that I'm not trying to be with who's- who's, uh, who's pregnant, who's- who's period's late, I'm like, "I believe in abortion to the fifth trimester." (laughs) Like, I believe in it late. Whereas if I'm, if I'm, you know, not ... If I'm 65 and can't get somebody or whatever, probably can't get somebody-

Joe Rogan 40:18 (laughs) 65?

Neal Brennan 40:18 65 or whatever. Whatever age. There is no age of, uh-

Joe Rogan 40:21 Al Pacino just had a kid. Al Pacino is 80 years old.

Neal Brennan 40:24 Oh, I know. Fuck.

Joe Rogan 40:25 80 years old.

Neal Brennan 40:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:26 And he also wanted to make sure the kid was his, which is, like, a great way to start.

Neal Brennan 40:31 Somebody I know was doing pick-up at school with- with De Niro.

Joe Rogan 40:36 Oh.

Neal Brennan 40:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:38 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 40:38 Like recently.

Joe Rogan 40:39 He just had a kid.

Neal Brennan 40:39 It was just like-

Joe Rogan 40:40 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 40:41 I can't believe you're still doing this.

Joe Rogan 40:43 Well, isn't this his like ... I mean, how many times has he been married? This guy's just d- just dive right back in.

Neal Brennan 40:48 Yeah, I've never understood that.

Joe Rogan 40:50 I think-

Neal Brennan 40:50 I've never understood that need. And like Robert Murdoch just did it.

Joe Rogan 40:52 I think-

Neal Brennan 40:52 Robert Murdoch just got engaged.

Joe Rogan 40:54 Yeah. I think they're just comfortable with having a partner, and they just don't wanna exist in this weird state where they're texting people and calling people. Especially when you're in your 70s.

Neal Brennan 41:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:06 You're trying to-

Neal Brennan 41:06 No, it's-

Joe Rogan 41:06 You're trying to hook up.

Neal Brennan 41:06 Don't get me wrong, it's humiliating.

Joe Rogan 41:08 Right. I bet if you're a 70-year-old famous guy and you get divorced, I bet, I bet it's probably pretty easy to find someone new who, like, plays the role, and probably pretty easy to get duped. Pretty easy.

Neal Brennan 41:23 Yeah. 'Cause they know-

Joe Rogan 41:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 41:25 ... for, like, the c- The time is on my ... If I'm the girl, my time-

Joe Rogan 41:29 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 41:29 I just gotta ride this baby out. Like, I can-

Joe Rogan 41:30 Yeah. All you have to do is just be the right person that this guy needs for a small amount of time, and you don't have to work ever.

Neal Brennan 41:38 Ever again.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Ever. Like, if you're a person who's r- running around and they're scratching out 60, 70 grand a year and barely getting by, and then you hook up with Robert De Niro-

Neal Brennan 41:46 And in order to change your life you just have to need to, you need to stand in Robert De Niro's eye line.

Joe Rogan 41:51 Yeah. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 41:52 With what my friend calls available sexual energy.

Joe Rogan 41:55 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 41:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:56 Available sexual energy and just be nice. Just be nice to him.

Neal Brennan 41:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:59 It's all he needs. Just talk to him.

Neal Brennan 42:01 You're can-

Joe Rogan 42:02 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 42:02 You're candy striping.

Joe Rogan 42:03 Yeah, you just don't ... You don't have to work hard. Just don't be offensive. Don't be rude. Don't-

Neal Brennan 42:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:07 Don't fuck with him. Don't insult him. Don't play the same games that you'd play with a 30-year-old guy that doesn't have any money.

Neal Brennan 42:12 Nope.

Joe Rogan 42:12 Play, play a different game.

Neal Brennan 42:14 If he doesn't text you back it's 'cause he doesn't know how to text, sweetie, 'cause he's a fucking old dude.

Joe Rogan 42:19 Yeah. Or he can't ... He doesn't have his glasses-

Neal Brennan 42:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:20 ... so he can't see what you wrote him. (laughs)

Neal Brennan 42:21 (laughs) A lot of this.

Joe Rogan 42:23 Oh, no.

Neal Brennan 42:23 Yep. That's the sad part about being our age is that any time I go look at this meme, all my friends have to put glasses on-

Joe Rogan 42:30 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 42:30 ... and start holding, just like, "Oh, fuck."

Joe Rogan 42:32 Exactly.

Neal Brennan 42:32 Christ.

Joe Rogan 42:33 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 42:33 It's fucking humiliation. But-

Joe Rogan 42:35 You can mitigate some of that. Um, there's, uh, there's, uh, there- there's certain vitamins that you could take that stop macular degeneration. Um, Pure Encapsulations has a macular support formula.

Neal Brennan 42:46 But does it work?

Joe Rogan 42:47 It's legit. Yeah, it stopped it. It stopped it for me.

Neal Brennan 42:49 For you?

Joe Rogan 42:50 Yeah, it to- totally stopped it. Totally stopped it.

Neal Brennan 42:52 You were, like ... Do you wear glasses? Contacts?

Joe Rogan 42:54 I was ... I can, yeah. I- I wear, I wear, I wear glasses when I write.... you know, I wear reading glasses when I write, but I can look at my phone, no problem. I could read websites, no problem.

Neal Brennan 43:02 Did it get better or just stop?

Joe Rogan 43:03 It got a little better. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 43:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:04 A little better with red light too, red light therapy. You have a red light bed that I lie in.

Neal Brennan 43:10 And that, do you, are your eyes open?

Joe Rogan 43:12 Yeah. You gotta keep your eyes open.

Neal Brennan 43:14 And, uh, you're laying in a bed. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:17 Yeah. It's just staring at red lights, just chilling. Usually, I just listen to books.

Neal Brennan 43:22 Yeah. I would like to do that, 'cause it's, it gets w- it's worse. It just gets... It's such a bummer.

Joe Rogan 43:27 Ari got surgery. He got LASIK on his eyes, and then his eyes got worse after the surgery. They got better-

Neal Brennan 43:33 That can happen sometimes, right?

Joe Rogan 43:34 Well, you have the natural course of macular degeneration that takes place as you age. So his eyes were great at first, like, "This is great. I don't have to wear glasses anymore." And then a couple years later, five, six, seven years later, starts getting really shitty again. And it's just... They go, "Yeah, that's just what happens."

Neal Brennan 43:50 Yeah. I think that happened to Bill Maher too. It got wor-... He couldn't... He kept getting LASIK.

Joe Rogan 43:56 (sighs)

Neal Brennan 43:56 I... And maybe I'm remembering this wrong. And then at a certain point, they're like, "We can't LASIK you in. You just have to wear glasses."

Joe Rogan 44:02 Oh, that's scary. Getting more and more eye surgeries is fucking terrifying.

Neal Brennan 44:07 Yeah. That's, that's probably the m- the one that makes you wince the most.

Joe Rogan 44:11 Because it doesn't go-

Neal Brennan 44:11 Those, those videos.

Joe Rogan 44:12 It doesn't go well every time. Like there's-

Neal Brennan 44:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:15 ... certain times where people get infections or it just doesn't heal right or-

Neal Brennan 44:18 Or you just, your eyes are fucked-

Joe Rogan 44:21 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 44:21 ... for... You have a halo around lights and shit.

Joe Rogan 44:23 Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, I have a friend who can't drive at night. He got LASIKs and now he can't drive at night.

Neal Brennan 44:27 I think I, I would murder the doctor if that happened to me.

Joe Rogan 44:31 He, he was so upset because he's like, "I could have driven at night and just worn glasses when I had to read things." He goes, "Now, I can't drive at night," 'cause if the headlights see him-

Neal Brennan 44:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:40 ... it's just like he's just blinded by halos. He can't see-

Neal Brennan 44:44 It's a nightmare.

Joe Rogan 44:44 ... around the circle, like he doesn't know where the car is, where the headlight is. He just sees this circle of light that surrounds things, like headlights and street lights. It's just terrible.

Neal Brennan 44:56 Um, yeah. I don't... That would, that would make me so... That would make me feel so sorry for myself-

Joe Rogan 45:02 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 45:03 ... if I went for surgery and was, like, worse off.

Joe Rogan 45:07 Yeah. That's a problem with some surgeries. And the problem with surgeons is that, uh, you know, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Neal Brennan 45:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:15 And, you know, that's the only solution. I mean, uh...

Neal Brennan 45:18 Yeah, that's most, you know.

Joe Rogan 45:19 I've had a bunch of surgeries that I avoided, where the doctor's like, "You're gonna need surgery." And I was like, "Are you fucking sure?" Like, "Are you sure?" And then-

Neal Brennan 45:26 Knees, shoulders, shit like that?

Joe Rogan 45:28 Yeah. Shoulders is the big one. Yeah. I wound up getting stem cells in my back. I had, uh, bulging discs and they were like, "You gotta get that trimmed." And I was like, "Are you sure that's the only way to do it?" It's not the only way to do it. So I had-

Neal Brennan 45:38 What did they do?

Joe Rogan 45:39 ... decompression, stem cells, fixed it. I have zero problems-

Neal Brennan 45:43 Really?

Joe Rogan 45:44 Yeah. Zero problems with my neck, zero problems with my shoulder. I had a full-length rotator cuff tear in my shoulder. And they were like, "You're gonna need surgery, 100%." And I went back to the doctor six months later. He's like, "This is fucking crazy." Like, that, that tear doesn't exist anymore.

Neal Brennan 45:58 What did you do?

Joe Rogan 45:58 It's 'cause of the stem cells. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 46:00 And direct into it?

Joe Rogan 46:01 Yeah, direct into it. Yeah.

Neal Brennan 46:03 And all... Was it... Did you have to go far? Did... Was it just, like, local? Again, a loc-

Joe Rogan 46:09 I did it in, uh... Well, I did it in Vegas and I did it in LA. I did it several times. Uh, I, I think I did three injections in my shoulder. And then six months later, I got another MRI and they're like, "You don't have a tear anymore." The s- the doctor was blown away 'cause it, this was all... You know, we're talking about, ugh, I think my injury was, like, 2015, 2016, somewhere around then. So this was all fairly recent in terms of, like, the amount of res- the kind of results that they were getting. And this doctor had never seen anything like it. He was blown away. He'd been an orthopedic surgeon for 20 years.

Neal Brennan 46:37 Did you have to do anything?

Joe Rogan 46:39 No.

Neal Brennan 46:39 Did you have to rehab it? Or they just-

Joe Rogan 46:41 Yeah. I did re-... I did regular rehab. Like, once I got the surgery, I did, like, I do a lot of bands.

Neal Brennan 46:45 But you're trying to bring back... What are you bringing? You're br-

Joe Rogan 46:47 You're regenerating tissue. You're regenerating tissue.

Neal Brennan 46:49 Can rehab do- help you with that?

Joe Rogan 46:51 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 46:51 Or is that just stem cell?

Joe Rogan 46:52 Yeah. It just, it strengthens it. I think the, the rehab with the stem... The, the key is, it's, like, not injuring it while you're healing. And the problem is, it starts feeling better and then you start pushing, then you re-aggravate the injury, and then you're in this repetitive cycle. But if you can avoid that, like, um... My friend, Shane Dorian, he's a big wave surfer, and he got, uh, serious stem cells down in, uh, Tijuana where they could do wild shit. And, uh, he got his entire back done. So they put him under and they do every disc in his back. And they're like, "You can't do anything." Like, "You can only walk for, like, a couple of months." Like, that's all you could do. And for a guy like him who's a world champion surfer and he's an athlete and he's always exercising, he's always doing something, it was crazy to just not... All you could do is walk. But now he feels fucking incredible. And it's just months later.

Neal Brennan 47:41 And he has the back of a t- him, his old back?

Joe Rogan 47:44 Well, it's definitely a lot better than it used to be.

Neal Brennan 47:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:46 You know, and that's the key to these things. And if you were allowed to do those in America like you're allowed to do those overseas, I think you'd see remarkable improvements. But the problem is then you have orthopedic surgeons who don't want this to happen and they'll try to tell you not to do it, because if more people do it and they start telling more people to do it, people are gonna avoid surgeries and they're gonna be out of a job. And that's-

Neal Brennan 48:04 There's one of these in, uh... Jimmy, if you'd bring this up, there was... There's a f- there's a film that they can put on teeth that will basically just prevent cavities forever.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Really?

Neal Brennan 48:17 Yeah. I saw it, like, three weeks ago. There's, like, a, a microscopic film, invisible, you, like-

Joe Rogan 48:23 Wow.

Neal Brennan 48:23 ... they, like, kind of paint it on. They wanna do it on kids.

Joe Rogan 48:27 Wow.

Neal Brennan 48:27 Uh, like, uh, low-income kids and, uh, and the... It will... Again, maybe I misread it. Jimmy, if you'd look it up.

Joe Rogan 48:36 Wow.

Neal Brennan 48:36 Um-

Joe Rogan 48:37 I haven't heard of that. That's crazy.

Neal Brennan 48:38 Yeah. No, it's a new thing, but there are... And I'm not even... I mean, I g- I am conspiracy-minded in terms of like, yeah, people will try to prevent that. But I wonder which ones they'll let through.

Joe Rogan 48:48 Well, if there's money in painting people's kids with that stuff, they might let it through. The scariest one is fluoride. The fluoride in the water thing is bananas, 'cause they're like, "Oh, it prevents tooth decay." It also fucking causes a drop in IQ that's absolutely measurable. If you could see the difference between the amount of fluoride in a water and the amount of i- the, the drop in IQs in that area, it's, there's a direct correlation.

Neal Brennan 49:11 It's a... But it's in, like, a lot of countries.

Joe Rogan 49:14 ... fluoride is a weird one, man, because there's a lot of, like, very credible scientists that would point to the fact that fluoride is a neurotoxin. It's not good for you at all. And they're like, "Oh, yeah, but in small doses." But fucking says who? Says who? And for what purpose? The way I point it out is like, s- say if someone gets skin cancer, and you say, "Okay, well, we're gonna put sunscreen in all the apples." Well, hey, hold the fuck on. How about just brush your fucking teeth? Why do you have to put that shit in the water? So every time I cook spaghetti, I have fluoride in my fucking spaghetti. Like, what are we doing? Like, who-

Neal Brennan 49:47 Yeah. I mean, I don't, I, I'm curi- 'cause I looked this up recently 'cause I, what I've heard is the, the amount of fluoride that makes it toxic is, like, just a s- huge amount. It's like the dog eating chocolate thing.

Joe Rogan 49:58 Right.

Neal Brennan 49:59 Did you ever look up how much chocolate a dog has to eat-

Joe Rogan 50:01 To kill one?

Neal Brennan 50:02 ... to kill it? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:02 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 50:02 It's like half its body weight or something. It's like, it's a huge amount. And I, what I remember is that in order for fluoride to be toxic, it's gotta be a m- a major amount.

Joe Rogan 50:13 Right. But there's a correlation between high levels of fluoride in water and low IQs. There's, we don't really know, and it's the developmental cycle of a child that you're interfering with.

Neal Brennan 50:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:24 So if you take children and you give them this neurotoxin and you, you have it in the water to prevent them from getting cavities, and you literally lower their IQ, which seems possible.

Neal Brennan 50:34 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 50:35 This is-

Neal Brennan 50:35 I don't know how they came to the decision.

Joe Rogan 50:37 And there's no fucking reason to do it. There's no reason to do it. It's stupid. Cavity-fighting liquid prevents 80% of cavities, finds largest US study. New treatment uses silver diammine fluoride.

Neal Brennan 50:50 Sorry, buddy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:50 Which is an inexpensive liquid that prevents cavities.

Neal Brennan 50:53 Guys, I should have never brought it up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:54 Well, it's, it's a surface thing, though.

Neal Brennan 50:55 I'm not kidding.

Joe Rogan 50:55 You're not covering your fucking-

Neal Brennan 50:56 Yeah, well, it's stuck in your mouth, though, I think.

Joe Rogan 50:58 You're not drinking it.

Neal Brennan 50:59 What's it, what's it saying, Joe?

Joe Rogan 51:01 Uh, dental cavities are a distressing sensation that, if left untreated, can result in terrifying pain, swelling, and relentless night- restless nights. Team of researchers at New York University identified a cavity-fighting solution that is both effective and affordable. New treatment uses silver diammine fluoride, which is an inexpensive liquid that prevents cavities and even shields the existing ones from getting worse. So that doesn't really prevent you from getting cavities. It, like, stops cavities.

Neal Brennan 51:26 Didn't it just say it prevents cavities?

Joe Rogan 51:29 Shields them. Well, it says it...

Neal Brennan 51:29 It is an expensive liquid that prevents cavities.

Joe Rogan 51:31 But it, does it cover the teeth and prevents future cavities, I would say?

Neal Brennan 51:34 It's, I believe, I believe maybe in the next paragraph it'll say that.

Joe Rogan 51:37 Tsk. Uh, it's quicker to apply and less expensive than sealants. So it seems like they're doing it on cavities. Prevent and arrest cavities. Reducing the need for drilling and filling. So, they can prevent cavities on people that don't have cavities and then they can fill the cavities with the stuff and prevent them from getting worse. Dental cavities are a prevailing concern, Centers for Disease Control ... Do, do, do, do, do, do. But doesn't just brushing your fucking teeth prevent cavities?

Neal Brennan 52:02 Yeah. Yes.

Joe Rogan 52:04 I don't have cavities.

Neal Brennan 52:04 That's one of those things, no, I, I have.

Joe Rogan 52:07 I haven't had cavities since I was a little kid. I just brush my teeth.

Neal Brennan 52:11 Thank you, fluoride.

Joe Rogan 52:12 I don't think it's fluoride.

Neal Brennan 52:13 That's the tonight's episode that Joe wrote.

Joe Rogan 52:15 I have a well.

Neal Brennan 52:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:15 I don't use, I don't have fluoride in my home water.

Neal Brennan 52:17 Is that true?

Joe Rogan 52:17 Yeah. Yeah, I p- I try to avoid fluoride wherever possible. I just-

Neal Brennan 52:21 You live with flu-

Joe Rogan 52:22 It's not good for you.

Neal Brennan 52:22 I mean, but you, the first half of your life was all, was you were riddled with fluoride.

Joe Rogan 52:26 I'm sure I got it.

Neal Brennan 52:26 No, the, until a couple, until you moved here.

Joe Rogan 52:29 Well, I used to use fluoride tooth- No.

Neal Brennan 52:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:30 E- even when I lived in LA.

Neal Brennan 52:32 No, that's not true.

Joe Rogan 52:32 But I j- I never drank water out of the tap.

Neal Brennan 52:33 Oh, you didn't, you had your own well?

Joe Rogan 52:35 I would never drink water-

Neal Brennan 52:36 Or you had your own thing.

Joe Rogan 52:36 ... out of the tap. Never.

Neal Brennan 52:37 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 52:38 Uh, it's fucking terrible for you. It smells bad. It smells like chemicals. And even if it's, like, mostly okay, it's like why are you doing that to yourself? Like, have you ever, like, seen any of the studies on fluoride and there's-

Neal Brennan 52:50 The ones I saw were just, like, it's pretty minor.

Joe Rogan 52:53 ... documents on fluoride. (sighs)

Neal Brennan 52:53 The ones I've seen.

Joe Rogan 52:54 It's not necessarily minor. It's poison and it's not necessary. There's no reason for it, and it seems like there's a lot of money tied into fluoro- fluoridating drinking water.

Neal Brennan 53:03 Look up countries that fluorinate their ... Fluoridize?

Joe Rogan 53:06 Fluorid-

Neal Brennan 53:07 Fluorify?

Joe Rogan 53:08 Fluoribodate? (laughs)

Neal Brennan 53:09 Their water. Um, 'cause it's, I looked it up.

Joe Rogan 53:13 We should a lot of them have it.

Neal Brennan 53:13 Yeah, I looked it up. So if we all have bad IQs, it's fine. (laughs) Did you watch the, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:19 There's no reason.

Neal Brennan 53:19 ... Synanon thing?

Joe Rogan 53:20 The what thing?

Neal Brennan 53:21 The, there's an HBO documentary about this, it's really, you'll really like it. It's like-

Joe Rogan 53:27 About what?

Neal Brennan 53:28 It's called Synanon.

Joe Rogan 53:29 Synanon.

Neal Brennan 53:29 It was like a group, it was a bit of a, it's a, it was a cult and then they, they, it started out as, like, kind of a self-help, as, like, a 12-step fellowship.

Joe Rogan 53:39 Oh.

Neal Brennan 53:39 It's the classic. Then it became a cult, then the, the, the leader goes crazy.

Joe Rogan 53:44 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 53:44 I'm on, it's only (laughs) episode two, but it really does-

Joe Rogan 53:46 No.

Neal Brennan 53:46 ... follow, like, the, the, the thing of, like, every cult. At some point the leader goes, "Hey, I spoke to God and he needs me to fuck all your wives."

Joe Rogan 53:55 Ugh.

Neal Brennan 53:56 Sorry, guys.

Joe Rogan 53:56 Synanon.

Neal Brennan 53:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:58 What is it about?

Neal Brennan 53:59 It's, it-

Joe Rogan 53:59 Oh, so it's an old cult.

Neal Brennan 54:01 It's from the '70s, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:02 Oh.

Neal Brennan 54:02 The golden age. The late, started in the '60s, went into the '70s. Starts in black and white.

Joe Rogan 54:08 How am I not gonna know anything about this?

Neal Brennan 54:09 Yeah. It's on HBO Max or whatever.

Joe Rogan 54:11 I'll, I'll have to shave my head.

Neal Brennan 54:12 Everyone shaves their heads.

Joe Rogan 54:13 That's so important.

Neal Brennan 54:13 It's fucking right up your alley.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Uh.

Neal Brennan 54:15 Uh, like, it's, yeah, there's the guy.

Joe Rogan 54:17 Yeah, look at him.

Neal Brennan 54:18 They have audio of him screaming at them.

Joe Rogan 54:21 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 54:23 Uh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:23 An attack against Synanon was an attack against America.

Neal Brennan 54:25 Yeah. It's f- it's, it's, it's (laughs) fucking-

Joe Rogan 54:28 Wow.

Neal Brennan 54:28 ... custom-made for you.

Joe Rogan 54:30 That's crazy.

Neal Brennan 54:30 Beautiful.

Joe Rogan 54:30 I've literally never heard of this.

Neal Brennan 54:31 It's been on for, it just came out last week. Um.

Joe Rogan 54:34 Oh. There's so many of these.

Neal Brennan 54:35 I, I have a thing in my, in my new, uh, Netflix about, where I'm talking about you, I'm talking ab- I'm talking about the outsize role that, um, you know, because corporation, uh, corporate leaders have been, are basically a piece of shit. Politicians are a piece of shit. Clergy, imams, pastors are pieces of shit. Now, somehow it's all become like, "Well, what do the clowns think?"

Joe Rogan 55:02 Zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz.

Neal Brennan 55:03 Now it's up to the, now it's up to comedians to be the moral arbiters. And it's you, Dave, I mentioned Ellen, I mentioned Kevin Hart, I mentioned just all these people that's like, why are you guys consi- I mean, I know why, 'cause it's just everyone else-... couldn't do it. (laughs) And comedians have opinions. And like, Carlin was moral, sometimes. Uh, Jon Stewart is moral, you know. But I don't... But it's one of these things. It's like, it shouldn't be up to us, guys.

Joe Rogan 55:34 Right.

Neal Brennan 55:35 We're like... We shouldn't be the backstop. We're- we shouldn't be the moral backbone of America.

Joe Rogan 55:42 We're one of the rare people, the rare groups of people, that are allowed to speak freely.

Neal Brennan 55:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:47 And that's what it is. It's like, we're the one... As long as we can find an angle where it's funny, w-

Neal Brennan 55:53 Well, that's the thing is people are mad. It's like on here, people get mad at you for not being, uh, reading the talking points of the National Institutes of Health. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 56:06 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 56:06 Like, what do- I never understand what people want you to be. Like, what do you th- or walk me through this, where Joe says everything you want him to say.

Joe Rogan 56:15 It's not possible.

Neal Brennan 56:16 Uh, it's also not... It's not a show anymore.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Right. But you also, you can't make everyone happy. It's l- impossible.

Neal Brennan 56:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:23 And if you try to operate in this world where you're trying to make people happy versus just trying to be honest-

Neal Brennan 56:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:30 ... you're fucked. You're fucked. You're fucked from the jump. There's no way to do that. It's not possible. You won't be you anymore. You will be compromised.

Neal Brennan 56:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:39 You know. I mean, I- I feel that about so many things. I feel that about reading comments. I don't think you should read comments.

Neal Brennan 56:45 I- I don't... I think that it's- it's a- it's been a detriment-

Joe Rogan 56:50 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 56:50 ... to certainly, like, public comment. It... Or what- what- whatever we do, whatever, like public speaking to... 'Cause it really does kind of... You think about like, "Well, what are they gonna... What's the worst thing you could possibly say about what I'm thinking of saying?"

Joe Rogan 57:07 Right. Well, it's also-

Neal Brennan 57:08 And it's a bad way to approach things, I think.

Joe Rogan 57:10 It's also people that are deeply dishonest-

Neal Brennan 57:12 Of course.

Joe Rogan 57:12 ... and they twist-

Neal Brennan 57:13 And- and deeply unhappy and deep-

Joe Rogan 57:14 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 57:15 Yeah, deeply antisocial.

Joe Rogan 57:15 Like what they did with your joke about abortion. Like, "Oh-

Neal Brennan 57:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:17 ... he's a- he's just a grifter. He's a pro-abortion grifter-

Neal Brennan 57:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:21 ... trying to get that right wing money," instead of just trying to make a point. But everyone's trapped. They're trapped in these ideological bubbles, and they don't know what to do. And it's, uh... If you keep reading the comments on that bubble, you will stay trapped. You will stay trapped. You're- you're fucked. You have to be af- You have to be able to think freely and express yourself freely. And you can be wrong. And if you're wrong, you have to be able to admit you're wrong, and you have to be able to say why you were wrong and why you thought this and why you think differently now. And that's just a function of being an honest human being. And it's possible to do, but God damn, that is a whitewater rafting trip that is (laughs) fucking filled with rocks.

Neal Brennan 58:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:00 There's like- there's bears catching salmon on your phone.

Neal Brennan 58:03 Uh-huh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:03 It's- it's crazy.

Neal Brennan 58:04 Scrape your fucking fat.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 58:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:06 It's scary. It's scary.

Neal Brennan 58:08 How do you... Like, do you- do you monitor yourself at all? Do you know what I mean? Like, do you... Have you had... Have you gone like, "Boy, this is getting pretty... This is getting pretty, uh... This megaphone's getting pretty big." You're having to hire a lot of security at your live shows. You know what I mean? Like, just... I'm assuming, like, the bigger... The venues are getting bigger.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 58:29 There's just more... Does it ever go... Uh, does it... I mean, it's gotta be validating for you as a person, right? You gotta be like, "Oh, I must've... I kinda... I must've done some shit right." And then does it make you, uh, police yourself? Do you go like, "Let me really try to be..."

Joe Rogan 58:49 I think it makes you... You- you definitely have to be more clear with what you think and why you think it, instead of just shooting off the cuff, which I definitely used to do a lot when I was younger. I'd have an idea in my head, and I'd just run with it, and then I'd try to defend that idea.

Neal Brennan 59:06 But even the fluoride thing, right?

Joe Rogan 59:08 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 59:09 What we just talked about.

Joe Rogan 59:10 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 59:10 That's the same conversation we would've had 10 years ago.

Joe Rogan 59:13 Sure.

Neal Brennan 59:13 Right?

Joe Rogan 59:13 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 59:14 Does it... Do you now think of how... Do you go, "I have to know what studies are what, and if that's a true, and it's been, uh, uh, you know, replicated-

Joe Rogan 59:26 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 59:26 ... et cetera, et cetera, et cetera"? Or is it still kind of the same, like, "Yeah, I think I read that," the same thing we all do, generally, which is like, "Yeah, I read that," or, "I heard that," or whatever, like...

Joe Rogan 59:35 Well, it's been a while, but I have read multiple studies on fluoride.

Neal Brennan 59:37 No. Yeah. But I'm saying-

Joe Rogan 59:38 And I've talked to multiple experts.

Neal Brennan 59:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:39 And if I didn't, I would say I'm not sure.

Neal Brennan 59:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:42 I'm not sure. I don't... I'm not sure. But fluoride is not healthy. It's not-

Neal Brennan 59:47 No. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:47 It's not a good thing for you to take.

Neal Brennan 59:47 But I'm saying-

Joe Rogan 59:48 But it's also-

Neal Brennan 59:48 I just wonder about your process. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:49 But that's one of those ones where I can just say that.

Neal Brennan 59:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:51 But then there's other things, where it's like vegan diet. (sighs) I know people that do it. I know people that have pulled it off. It's possible to do it. Hey, you look like shit. No, I'm just kidding.

Neal Brennan 1:00:00 You motherfucker.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 You look all right. You look thin and healthy.

Neal Brennan 1:00:03 Thank you so much.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 But you can do it if you supplement carefully and you're a smart guy. You know what to eat and what not to eat, and you know to-

Neal Brennan 1:00:08 And I can get my blood tested and go to a guy, and he tells me-

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 Yeah. You get vitamin D.

Neal Brennan 1:00:11 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:11 If you have money-

Neal Brennan 1:00:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 ... you can do all the things that you do to make sure that you're okay. And it absolutely can be done. I know people that eat a vegan diet. And I also think there's biodiversity. There's some people, their ancestry is very different. Their- their genetics are very different, and they're- they're much more... Uh, vegan diet is more tolerable for them. Like, Indian people, Indian people have been eating vegetarian food for so fucking long.

Neal Brennan 1:00:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 You know, I would imagine-

Neal Brennan 1:00:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 ... that their body, their genes have adapted if they've come from a long line of vegetarians.

Neal Brennan 1:00:43 Yeah, like, they're kind of stuck with vegetable. And they're... You know what I mean? (laughs) They're kinda stuck with-

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 I mean, maybe it would be beneficial-

Neal Brennan 1:00:49 ... would not stuck with... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 ... for them to- to supplement with protein.

Neal Brennan 1:00:50 Or they figured it out. They have it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:00:52 Their body has figured... If their-

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:00:54 Whatever it was deficient in, it's figured out a way around it by what's- what was available to them.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Right. But when we look at countries that consume more meat, they- they're healthier and they live longer. Hong Kong is a great example of that. So, there's some great studies that have done- been done on Hong Kong. They have, like, o- one of the highest meat consumptions and higher life expectancies and-... but it's-

Neal Brennan 1:01:13 Yeah, and then there's also, like, Blue Zone-

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Then again, it's like how long have they been doing it?

Neal Brennan 1:01:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 Yeah, and-

Neal Brennan 1:01:17 And the Blue Zone or the, like, a little bit of prot- yeah. It's, it's ... I guess what you're saying is the acknowledgment that, like, shit's complicated and there's no one right or wrong answer.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 There's also things like healthy user bias. Like, the most important thing that pretty much most of the objective doctors will say, the most important thing is physical activity, and that if you are not physically active and you eat well, y- you're almost better off smoking cigarettes and being physically active-

Neal Brennan 1:01:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 ... than-

Neal Brennan 1:01:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 ... than, than doing that.

Neal Brennan 1:01:47 By the way, th- this is always fascinating to me because I've been asking people, do you know what percentage of people die, smokers die of lung cancer?

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 What percentage?

Neal Brennan 1:01:56 10 to 15%.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 That's crazy.

Neal Brennan 1:01:58 Isn't that low?

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 That's crazy.

Neal Brennan 1:02:00 Wouldn't you think it's, like, 60?

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 That's crazy.

Neal Brennan 1:02:03 It's 10 to ... And I l- I've looked it up repeatedly, like, am I misreading this? The amount of smokers that die of lung cancer is 10 to 15%.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 But do they die of other stuff along the way?

Neal Brennan 1:02:17 Well, yeah, of course, comorbidities, et cetera, et cetera, but like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 Yeah, 'cause it's like smoking just in general, like, you're limiting your oxygen intake, there's a lot of factors. There's toxins.

Neal Brennan 1:02:25 Yeah, but it's not as bad as you don't-

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 Right.

Neal Brennan 1:02:28 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 Well, that's ... This, this one doctor that I was talking to that was very adamant about that. He goes, "Physical activity. If you don't have physical activity, you might as well be a drinker and a smoker."

Neal Brennan 1:02:37 Yeah. You're fucked. And then there's also that loneliness thing.

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 Oh, yeah. That's a big one, man. It's a big factor. What percentage of pho- ... Studies found the risk of developing lung cancer increases to 14% if you smoke cigarettes. If you smoke one to five cigarettes per day, your risk is around 7.7%, and if you smoke more than 35 cigarettes a day, you have a 26% chance of devel- ... Well, that's a lot.

Neal Brennan 1:02:58 That's ... Uh, uh, 35 cigarettes-

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 80 though, by 80.

Neal Brennan 1:03:01 (laughs) Yeah, I know. It's like there you go, like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 It's like a whole lifetime-

Neal Brennan 1:03:04 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 ... of smoking 35 ... What is that? A pack and a half?

Neal Brennan 1:03:07 Yeah. Almost two.

Narrator 1:03:08 Two ... Two, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 Is two ta- packs 40?

Neal Brennan 1:03:10 Yeah.

Narrator 1:03:10 We got 20 in a pack.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Wow. 26%.

Neal Brennan 1:03:12 Two packs is still only-

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 That's three out of four.

Neal Brennan 1:03:15 (laughing) Yeah. It's like you're t-

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 Which, by the way, is the exact same number of, uh, FDA drugs that get pulled. 25% of all FDA approved drugs get pulled because they've killed too many people.

Neal Brennan 1:03:26 Oh, right, when they're like, "Oh, fuck."

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 1:03:28 "Whoopsies."

Narrator 1:03:29 "We didn't test it good enough."

Neal Brennan 1:03:30 We- yeah. "Whoopsies." We- we believe those pharmaceutical drug companies.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:03:34 That was, that was the weird one for me during the pandemic, was the trust in the pharmaceutical drug companies. And especially when I started talking to experts that actually spent their living litigating financial, uh, settlements for a- adverse effects of drugs. And you find out-

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:03:50 ... that scientists, when you hear about peer reviewed data, they're not even allowed to see the actual data. They see the analysis of the data by the pharmaceutical drug companies that performed the studies. I- I- I'm of two minds about this 'cause on the one hand, I agree with you and I've had similar experiences, and on the other hand, I'm like, people ... I don't fucking have time to do the research-

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Right.

Neal Brennan 1:04:13 ... on all of these things myself. And I have a lot of time. Like, do you know what I mean? Like I don't, I don't ... They are cr- everything's fucking corrupt.

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Right.

Neal Brennan 1:04:22 And it's so aggravating and so, like, predictable 'cause it's just human beings and they're just gonna be corrupt. And you just have to hope that the thing that you're, the pill you're taking (laughs) wasn't a victim of the corruption or the operation or even the stem ce- or whatever you do, you just have to hope it wasn't a victim of humanity. And so I'm with you because I've heard shit about vac- ... I've learned you can test for anything. You ... It's a ... You know, I've heard statisticians say you can make anything. You can crunch numbers any way you want to get to what you need.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 Well, they certainly have done that, you know? And that's, that's the big Vioxx scandal. Like, the, in the emails when they released Vioxx, they literally said, "We're gonna have-"

Neal Brennan 1:05:09 Which one's Vioxx?

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 Vioxx is an anti-inflammatory that they use that is no better than non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen and it's killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,000 Americans before it was pulled.

Neal Brennan 1:05:22 Well, there, uh, there was that other one, the ibo- uh, not ibupro- the one, the antihistamine that wasn't anything.

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 What's that one?

Neal Brennan 1:05:29 The Sudafed one, the one that was, like, a month and a half ago, most cough medicine wasn't medicine.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 What? Really?

Neal Brennan 1:05:36 Look at ... It's, it was, I was-

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 1:05:37 I assumed you just did, you did, like, an emergency episode about this.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 (laughs) I've never even heard of it.

Neal Brennan 1:05:43 When I saw ... No, look at ... I don't even know what to look up. Cough medicine, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Isn't medicine.

Neal Brennan 1:05:47 ... fraud. Yeah. Look up cough medicine isn't medicine.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 (laughs)

Neal Brennan 1:05:50 It was fucking insane.

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 Ugh.

Neal Brennan 1:05:54 And but again, I have ... My kid has a cold.

Joe Rogan 1:05:58 Right. Right.

Neal Brennan 1:05:59 So my kid's literally, uh, stuffed up this very second. I'm a parent. The fuck am I supposed to do?

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Right. You get medicine.

Neal Brennan 1:06:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 This is medicine. It's at the store, cough medicine. Got it. I got cough medicine for him.

Neal Brennan 1:06:11 Yep. Yep. Okay, good. I'm a good parent.

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Head home.

Neal Brennan 1:06:13 This should knock it out.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:06:14 And n- uh, it turns out it's just a bunch of garbage.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 What is it, Jamie? Did you find anything?

Narrator 1:06:20 Um, yeah. I got co- ... I'm trying to dig through. I got conflicting information real quick, so I'm trying to-

Neal Brennan 1:06:24 This is what happens, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:06:25 This is what-

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 Well, the pharmaceutical drug companies are like little trolls.

Neal Brennan 1:06:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 They put up a bunch of fake studies.

Neal Brennan 1:06:30 Or shit's complicated.

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 Yeah. Shit is definitely complicated-

Neal Brennan 1:06:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 ... but there's also a lot of financial interests in cloud water.

Neal Brennan 1:06:35 No, I know. That's the issue. It's with all this stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:06:37 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:06:37 It's like shit's complicated and people are corrupt and people try to thwart information-

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 Mm-hmm.

Neal Brennan 1:06:43 ... and bad information rises and there's no- it's just ... It's, it's spider meme.

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:06:48 It's just everything's fucking incredibly complex.

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Uh, OJ was dead for about an hour before I saw people connecting it to the vaccine.

Neal Brennan 1:06:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 'Cause OJ was telling people to get vaccinated. Well, maybe, maybe, maybe this guy who murdered his fucking wife and her boyfriend, maybe he was wracked with guilt his entire life-

Neal Brennan 1:07:09 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 ... and lived in a constant state of anxiety.

Neal Brennan 1:07:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 And everywhere he went, people yelled at him and called him a murderer.

Neal Brennan 1:07:15 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 And maybe he didn't sleep good.

Neal Brennan 1:07:16 You think that- And he ... But he, by the way, still made it to 76.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 ... right. Which is, like, I think two years-

Neal Brennan 1:07:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 ... older than most people die. I think the average age is, like, 72, 74. Like, what's the average American male life expectancy, Jamie?

Neal Brennan 1:07:31 It's either-

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 Let's guess. I'd say it's 70-

Neal Brennan 1:07:33 Uh, it's good.

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 ... two. I wanna say 70 too.

Neal Brennan 1:07:35 Well, well, black men is way lower. And, and fucking football players is probably 58.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Right, right. Good point.

Neal Brennan 1:07:42 Uh...

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 Good point.

Neal Brennan 1:07:42 But, but-

Joe Rogan 1:07:43 Which is interesting too, because one of the things that his... one of his attorneys said that if CTE, the information was available today like it was in '94, they would have used that in his defense.

Neal Brennan 1:07:52 Right. Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 Which is kinda crazy.

Neal Brennan 1:07:54 But do-... well, does he-

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 Then you'd have to say he's guilty.

Neal Brennan 1:07:56 Does he... has he found more innocent?

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 76. So 76 years. So he hit the number.

Neal Brennan 1:08:01 OJ.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Good fucking deal.

Neal Brennan 1:08:02 Good for you, Juice.

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 OJ landed exactly on the average American number.

Narrator 1:08:06 Here's what I found. So the FDA press release says this.

Neal Brennan 1:08:10 Yeah, this is it.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 "FDA advisor declares ineffectiveness of widely used over-the-counter decongestant active ingredient."

Neal Brennan 1:08:16 The active ingredient in decongestants was nothing.

Narrator 1:08:19 Let's see. 10 bet that.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Mm. "Popular over-the-counter medicines for colds and allergies don't work, FDA panel said," and that's Sudafed.

Narrator 1:08:26 What it really is, is they took, I guess... it's like this ingredient in there which is-

Neal Brennan 1:08:31 Sudafed-

Narrator 1:08:32 ... phenyleph-

Neal Brennan 1:08:32 Benadryl and most decongestants don't work. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 (laughs)

Narrator 1:08:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 Wow. The over-the-counter histamine, antihistamine Benadryl is not being pulled from the pharmacy shelves.

Narrator 1:08:42 So misleading headlines, it says.

Joe Rogan 1:08:44 Despite misleading headlines such as "Sudafed, Benadryl, and most decongestants don't work," they're not being pulled from pharmacy shelves. Uh, FDA, uh, Food and Drug Administration Advisory Committee voted 16 to 0 on Tuesday that current scientific data does not support the use of active ingredient phenylephrine, phenylephrine? Uh, in over-the-counter products such as Benadryl Allergy Plus Decongestant. This does not, however, pertain to antihistamines such as Benadryl, which contain the active ingredient diphenhydramine.

Neal Brennan 1:09:18 Yeah. This is already confuse-

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 Okay.

Neal Brennan 1:09:19 Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 Well, I think they-

Neal Brennan 1:09:20 Like I'm already like, "Wait, what?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 They're probably monkeying around with the stuff just to try to get it a little less, less scammy.

Narrator 1:09:27 I'm curious. It says it's a nasal decongestant.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 Mm-hmm. Okay. Brand names of the medications that include phenylephrine, such as Benadryl, have other products with distinct active ingredients. So there's one ingredient that doesn't work.

Neal Brennan 1:09:40 Okay. So maybe they do work.

Joe Rogan 1:09:41 The FDA committee voted on the question whether or not the evidence supported the use of the active... how's that word, moiety, moiety? Moiety phenylephrine as an effective nasal decongestant. And the panic- panel concluded that products which include phenylephrine are not effective against nasal congestion, though they were not deemed unsafe. But they don't work. So that's like-

Neal Brennan 1:10:04 Parts of them work.

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 Hmm.

Neal Brennan 1:10:06 One of the ingredients doesn't, is, is nothing.

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 But it says, but it says that, that the products that include phenylephrine are not effective against nasal congestion, though they were not deemed unsafe.

Narrator 1:10:20 There might be other stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:20 It still says it doesn't work, right?

Neal Brennan 1:10:21 Yeah. There might be other ingredients that do work.

Narrator 1:10:23 It might help your headache or your-

Neal Brennan 1:10:24 But they might not work either. We'll have to wait and see.

Joe Rogan 1:10:26 Though the FDA is not bound to the committee's recommendations... Why should it be? It's only science. Very likely the agency will follow its advice. In turn, this may lead to pharmacies pulling products containing oral phenylepheline, phene- phenylphrine, phenylphrine?

Neal Brennan 1:10:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 Phenylphrine? At least until acceptably reformulated versions are offered. Uh, there are branded products that include names Sudafed and Benadryl that do work as nasal decongestants. They contain the active ingredient pseudoephine, pseudo-

Narrator 1:10:59 Ephedrine.

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 ... eph-

Neal Brennan 1:11:01 Ephedrine. Eh, eh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:03 Pseudoephedrine.

Neal Brennan 1:11:03 Pseudoephedrine. Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:11:04 Uh, but because the dangerous illicit substance methamphetamine can be made in illegal laboratories with pseudoephedrine, these products were placed behind the counter years ago. In 2005, Congress passed the Combat Methamphetamine Am- Epidemic Act, which required pharmacies and other retail stores to maintain purchase logs.

Neal Brennan 1:11:23 Yeah. You gotta show your, uh, you gotta show your driver's license.

Joe Rogan 1:11:25 I, I remember I bought some of that stuff once, and I was like, "What? What do I have to do?"

Neal Brennan 1:11:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:29 And they were like, "Yeah, people can make meth with this." I'm like, "That's-"

Neal Brennan 1:11:31 You're like, "Do you know who I am?" I'm never gonna stop talking about that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:34 I'm like, "How much meth can you make off of one of these things? Is it enough?" Like how many of these things-

Neal Brennan 1:11:40 No. Yeah. They, they would do... they would go from pharmacy to pharmacy.

Joe Rogan 1:11:43 And just get boxes and boxes of it.

Neal Brennan 1:11:44 Dirt bags. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 Yeah.

Neal Brennan 1:11:45 And then cook it up. Just like, "Fucking get a job."

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 Wow.

Neal Brennan 1:11:48 Duh. Stop doing-

Joe Rogan 1:11:50 Also, just get Adderall.

Neal Brennan 1:11:51 Yeah. Or, yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 Yeah. I mean, they'll prescribe that to you, just like, "Oh, you're sleepy."

Neal Brennan 1:11:54 Well, yeah. But now we're running, we're running short, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Yeah. I'm wondering... Uh, apparently we are, right?

Neal Brennan 1:11:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:59 We're running short on Adderall.

Neal Brennan 1:12:00 Uh-huh. Uh, yeah. So, no. It's interesting to see, you know, you and people we've known so long being held up as like, uh, you know, when it's like... What was the thing you, um, Fitzsimmons helped you steal back a car radio or something?

Joe Rogan 1:12:18 Hmm?

Neal Brennan 1:12:18 Didn't Fitzsimmons, when you were roommates, you guys... or