Joe Rogan Experience #2140 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Hello, my British friends. What the fuck's happening?

Francis Foster 0:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:14 Good to see you guys.

Francis Foster 0:15 Good to be back, man.

Joe Rogan 0:16 It's, uh... The world just... I always hope that next time we see each other, things have calmed down. (laughs)

Francis Foster 0:24 (laughs)

Narrator 0:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:24 Have a happy podcast-

Francis Foster 0:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:26 ... where we're not freaking out and filled with existential crisis and doom.

Francis Foster 0:30 It's kinda weird, right? Like, life is good, but the world's on fire.

Joe Rogan 0:33 Uh-huh. I think that's one of the reasons why life is good. It's a fucked up thought, but I really believe that we only appreciate true, like, uh, comradery and community and friendship w- if there's, like, a real feeling of possible doom, like, hovering in the air. Then the times where you can just be together, have a drink with friends and hug each other, th- that's when it really feels good. Like, when, when, when things are too easy, I think people find more problems and get filled with more anxiety. But when there's real fear, then you could l- look at your friends like, "Bro, I love you, man." (laughs)

Francis Foster 1:13 (laughs)

Narrator 1:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13 Hugging each other. 'Cause, like, we could die tonight. It could be all over.

Francis Foster 1:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:17 No one's talking about the trans debate in Afghanistan, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:20 Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

Francis Foster 1:22 They've solved that. (laughs)

Narrator 1:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:23 Yeah, they're really not interested-

Francis Foster 1:25 (laughs)

Narrator 1:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:26 ... in drag queen story hour.

Francis Foster 1:28 (laughs)

Narrator 1:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:29 They'll just fucking shoot you and throw you in a burn pit.

Narrator 1:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:32 Like, shut up.

Francis Foster 1:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:33 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 1:34 No, it is. It's so interesting, like, it's... Schools are like that. If you go into a really nice school with really nice kids-

Joe Rogan 1:42 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 1:42 ... the teachers hate each other. They're all there going, "Can you believe what he said about her and she said about him?" And da, da, da, da, da. "And you know what they're doing in their lesson? They're not following the syllabus." When you work in a shit storm where every time you walk into the building, you're like, "It's not on fire," (laughs) you know what? You've got-

Joe Rogan 1:57 Right.

Francis Foster 1:57 ... more friends than ever in the staff room, because you have to be together.

Joe Rogan 2:00 Yeah, I, I think that's a, a real issue with human beings. I, I think we're just so hardwired to be prepared for tribal conflict-

Francis Foster 2:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:09 ... predators attacking. I think it's just inescapable, in the very fiber of our core, like, whatever it is, whatever our DNA is, whatever epigenetic, epigenetic memory, whatever the fuck is in our system, it just seems to e- e- expect horrible things happening. And if they're not, they find mundane things to be horrible.

Francis Foster 2:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:31 Microaggressions.

Narrator 2:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:33 The dumbest shit-

Francis Foster 2:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:34 ... to be upset with, because you don't have real shit to be upset with. And so you go looking... And then, also, the f- one of the things with microaggressions and a lot of those things is people find value, like, perceived value in being a victim of something. And so they, they start pushing it and they realize, "I'm getting results by pushing it." Like, we were talking earlier about people that, like, kind of create fake narratives because they li- they see a grift, they see a business to get into.

Francis Foster 2:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:59 It's not really their opinion. You know how annoying those people are to talk to? That's what that is. It's like, you're not really upset. You just know that you can say you're upset and then people go, "Oh, I'm sorry you're upset."

Francis Foster 3:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:10 And then all of a sudden we have this little scenario where you're the highlight.

Francis Foster 3:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:14 You're, you're, you're getting focus on you. It's- And online, it's not just, "Oh, you're upset." It's like, "You're upset? Here's a million dollars and 10 billion clicks on your video," right?

Narrator 3:22 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 3:22 So, the incentive structures are pushing this. And you see it, I think, happening across the political spectrum now, where people are really going heavy on the victimhood. Like, "We are oppressed. There's a conspiracy against me," et cetera.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Yeah.

Francis Foster 3:33 And it gets rewarded.

Joe Rogan 3:35 100%, and it's, it's a weakness. And it, and it's a sign of a society that has not really experienced too much conflict on its actual soil. Our conflict is all self-created. Our conflict is all crime in our own communities.

Francis Foster 3:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Our conflict is all "defund the police." Our conflict is, you know, whate- whatever. There's n- not real... The, the shit that's happening in Ukraine right now-

Francis Foster 3:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:56 ... or the shit that's happening in Israel right now. Like, that's real conflict.

Francis Foster 4:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:01 And when you don't have real conflict, you find conflict, unfortunately.

Francis Foster 4:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:05 It's-

Francis Foster 4:05 It's, it's kind of the way we're programmed. We're programmed to want to search for conflict, look for conflict, engage in conflict.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Yeah.

Francis Foster 4:12 And it, it's always a way. Just to take it back to the staff room point, I found it so interesting on a psychological level that people would bicker about the smallest of things, and they would blow it up into this big thing because it was easy to teach.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Yeah.

Francis Foster 4:27 You had an easy job, comparatively speaking.

Joe Rogan 4:30 (laughs)

Francis Foster 4:30 You're not gonna get that upset about a microaggression when someone's about to throw a chair at your head-

Joe Rogan 4:34 No.

Francis Foster 4:34 ... 'cause you're dealing with an aggression aggression.

Joe Rogan 4:37 People need shit to do. They really do.

Francis Foster 4:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:40 I almost feel like there should be a nationally-mandated morning run that everybody has to go on.

Narrator 4:45 (laughs)

Francis Foster 4:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:45 Like, the whole country. It's 7:00 in the morning, everyone's gotta run a mile. I know that's, that... A mile's not even that far, but just fucking one mile, everybody. You know how m- much better the country's attitude would be if there, if we all agreed th- to have, like, a mandated morning workout together? It sounds crazy, like, that's the solution? But what it is, it's in- injecting a difficult, a physically and mentally difficult thing to do first, especially for people that are out of shape, to do first thing in the morning. A physical, mental challenge the first thing of your day, and I guarantee the rest of the day people will be like, "Eh, what's the big deal?" A lot of the things it would be like, "What's the big deal?" A l- and also you'd realize the value of doing something that's difficult to do, which most people don't do, ever.

Narrator 5:38 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 5:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:38 Most people run away from that like it, like it's a fucking nuclear fire.

Narrator 5:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:42 Hmm.

Francis Foster 5:42 I think one of the other reasons, as well, that people are struggling meaning and purpose is that...

Konstantin Kisin 5:47 He knows this whole thing about the population not being replaced enough and we're not having enough kids. Well, it's not so much that women aren't having as many kids as they used to, it's that fewer women are having kids. That means f- far fewer people are now parents. And, like, when you become a parent, it sort of changes your outlook on things. And if you had a lack of meaning and purpose, you quickly find it, at least in providing for this tiny thing that is entirely dependent on you. I've certainly found that.

Joe Rogan 6:13 I've, I've found that too. I think, I think it also opens up a, an ... I mean, for a lack of better term, like a window in your soul-

Konstantin Kisin 6:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:21 ... where you understand love and ... Like, Dave Chappelle said this to me once. We were talking about having kids. We were in the back of The Comedy Store and he said, "Not only has it increased the amount of love," he goes, "It's increased my capacity for love."

Konstantin Kisin 6:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:34 I'm like, "That's brilliant." That's it. That's what it is. It changes everything.

Konstantin Kisin 6:38 It changes everything.

Francis Foster 6:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:39 Changes everything. And also, you realize like, oh, (sighs) these are all babies. Everybody's a baby that grew up.

Konstantin Kisin 6:45 I had that exact experience-

Joe Rogan 6:46 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 6:47 ... where I was like, I started seeing people and now I go, "Oh, they were like my son once."

Joe Rogan 6:52 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 6:52 And it just put me in a completely different place in terms of-

Joe Rogan 6:55 It made me 80% more compassionate.

Konstantin Kisin 6:57 T- m- the same.

Joe Rogan 6:58 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 6:58 I, I find it harder to judge people. I still do it, but-

Francis Foster 7:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:01 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 7:01 ... I find it harder.

Joe Rogan 7:01 Do you have any kids?

Francis Foster 7:02 No, I don't have kids.

Joe Rogan 7:03 When are you ready to shoot a live one into a nice young lady? (laughs)

Francis Foster 7:07 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 7:07 You put it so romantically, Joe. (laughs)

Francis Foster 7:10 (laughs) I like that. That's-

Joe Rogan 7:11 (laughs)

Francis Foster 7:12 (laughs) That's biology mixed with hunting.

Joe Rogan 7:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 7:14 (laughs)

Francis Foster 7:14 That's your brand, brother. That's Joe Rogan right there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:19 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 7:19 (laughs)

Francis Foster 7:19 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 7:19 That's hilarious.

Francis Foster 7:20 You should do that.

Joe Rogan 7:21 D- do you have a lady friend?

Francis Foster 7:22 Uh, not at the moment. No.

Joe Rogan 7:24 No?

Francis Foster 7:25 But, uh, I'm looking. I'm on the market. Uh, this podcast is mainly watched by-

Joe Rogan 7:29 There we go.

Francis Foster 7:29 ... some-

Joe Rogan 7:29 That's what it is.

Konstantin Kisin 7:29 Mate, you, your DMs after this are gonna be full.

Joe Rogan 7:31 Let's fucking go.

Francis Foster 7:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:33 Come on, son.

Konstantin Kisin 7:33 I've been trying to get him on that-

Francis Foster 7:35 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 7:35 ... bandwagon for a while now, so we're working on it.

Francis Foster 7:37 Debraw, bro.

Joe Rogan 7:38 But it's l- it, it's like picking a career. Don't go down the wrong path.

Francis Foster 7:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:42 You know, you go down the wrong path and you're a fucking accountant and you're fully invested and you got a mortgage and all this bullshit and you got a family to take care of it, but you really wanna be a comic, Francis, you're fucked.

Francis Foster 7:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:52 You know, you're fucked. And if you go all the way down the road with a bad woman and a woman that you're not compatible with, or maybe you together are bad, whatever the fuck it is, ugh, find a good one.

Francis Foster 8:02 I mean, that took a he- that, that took some, some twists and turns, that conversation, Joe. I'm gonna be honest.

Joe Rogan 8:07 Yeah.

Francis Foster 8:08 'Cause we went from firing a, a live one, which was, "I can do that."

Joe Rogan 8:11 It's good, but you don't wanna ruin your life.

Francis Foster 8:13 That is true.

Joe Rogan 8:14 And I, I ... Y- look, I'm very fortunate. I love my wife to death. I have friends that are in hell.

Konstantin Kisin 8:20 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 8:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:20 They're in hell. And I have friends that are in hell and they stay for the kids, and I have friends that are in hell and they're not even, they don't even have kids. It's, there's like ... And they b- both do it to each other. It's not just the m- the man, it's not just the woman, it's like some people just don't work together. It just doesn't work. And if you get one of those pregnant, dude.

Francis Foster 8:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:44 And then they do things to hurt you and you try to hurt each other and they try to get more money outta you and they wanna take you to court and they wanna turn your kids against you and, oh ... I could tell you horror stories.

Francis Foster 8:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:55 But I won't 'cause some of them are too personal, too, you know, my friends' stories. But one, uh, one of them is just so fucking insane, he ... I mean, I, I can't even get into it, but it ruined his life. It r- it r- it took 15 years to resolve. It completely destroyed his life, completely destroyed him financially. Yeah, just a crazy lady. (laughs)

Francis Foster 9:16 Yeah. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 9:17 A- and that's the other thing that becoming a parent does to you, is it makes you more vulnerable because you now have this thing that you care about more than anything. Uh, but when does-

Joe Rogan 9:24 I think that's good for people.

Francis Foster 9:25 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 9:26 Yeah, totally. We're, we're not selling marriage very well here, Joe, but, um-

Francis Foster 9:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:29 But it's, it, well-

Francis Foster 9:30 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 9:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:30 ... it, it's not a good thing to sell.

Francis Foster 9:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:32 If it, if I was an investment banker, if, if I was a guy who ran your portfolio-

Konstantin Kisin 9:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:37 ... and, uh, I was looking at marriage, I was like, "Phew, (sighs) I don't recommend it." (laughs)

Francis Foster 9:45 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 9:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:46 Because I recommend it romanti- romantically, I recommend it spiritually, I recommend it for your soul if you could find a soulmate.

Konstantin Kisin 9:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:54 But if you don't find a real soulmate, it's like, what, what are the numbers? The numbers are crazy.

Konstantin Kisin 9:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:00 What's the number that end up in divorce? It's more than half, right?

Francis Foster 10:03 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 10:04 Half of marriages, but not half of people. So, the way it works is, like, people are serial divorcees, basically.

Francis Foster 10:10 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 10:11 They skew the stats massively. So-

Francis Foster 10:13 Oh, interesting.

Konstantin Kisin 10:13 ... if you get married, your chances of getting divorced are not 50%. But statistically speaking, half of all marriages g- end in divorce 'cause-

Joe Rogan 10:21 Ah.

Francis Foster 10:21 Oh.

Konstantin Kisin 10:21 ... the guys who are getting divorced over and over and over-

Joe Rogan 10:24 That's interesting.

Francis Foster 10:25 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 10:25 ... right? So it's not, it's not that bad, Francis-

Francis Foster 10:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:27 Most people don't do that.

Konstantin Kisin 10:27 ... is what we're saying, right?

Joe Rogan 10:28 Well, I have one friend who had a terrible first marriage and an amazing second marriage.

Konstantin Kisin 10:31 Right.

Francis Foster 10:32 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 10:32 Yeah.

Francis Foster 10:32 And that's, and sometimes people need to go through that evolution-

Joe Rogan 10:35 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 10:35 ... where they need to make mistakes. And sometimes it's not even the partner's fault, it's just they went into this union at the wrong time for them, for whatever reason.

Joe Rogan 10:43 Yeah, well, and sometimes, yeah, it's s- sometimes it's you too. Like, you, you have that bad relationship, you go, "You know what? At any time along the way, I could've course corrected and made this better and I didn't. And in the next re-" like, "I really liked her in the beginning." Like, what the fuck happened?

Francis Foster 10:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:58 Like, if you could like remember what it's like when you first meet someone and you're really into them and just sort of keep that forever. (laughs)

Francis Foster 11:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:06 Is it, isn't it possible to just keep appreciating that person like that forever? Most people don't do that.

Konstantin Kisin 11:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:11 They get like, real used to stuff, real used to people. And then I also think there's a part of the, is like, if you're full of shit, that person knows you're full of shit 'cause they live with you.

Konstantin Kisin 11:21 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 11:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:21 You know? And then you have to face the fact that you're full of shit-

Francis Foster 11:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:24 ... in their eyes every day and you're like, "Fuck that bitch. She doesn't even believe in me." (laughs)

Francis Foster 11:29 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 11:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:29 (laughs) And the next thing you know, you're getting your kids on the weekend.

Francis Foster 11:33 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 11:33 You, you gotta work on the relationship, I think. Like, my wife and I have had to do that, for sure. We're n- we're, we're very different and so we have to really work at it. Um, and, uh, but y- what you're saying about appreciating and not taking for granted is hard to do, but it's the most important thing to do.

Joe Rogan 11:48 I think that's-

Francis Foster 11:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:49 ... with all of life. And then that's that corny-ass word, gratitude, that got-

Francis Foster 11:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:53 ... co-opted by those-... wooden bead wearing douchebags.

Konstantin Kisin 11:56 (laughs)

Francis Foster 11:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:57 Those motherfuckers, they took gratitude from us.

Francis Foster 12:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:00 But it's like such a prin- it's such a, an, an important principle of humility.

Konstantin Kisin 12:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:05 Like, gratitude and humility, like, those are like... To just, like, appreciate things. Appreciate... Like the other day, it was, i- it's been beautiful weather here. And the other day it rained, and the next day everything was vibrant green.

Francis Foster 12:17 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:18 And I was just outside going, "God, this is amazing." Like, there's just this view of just the vibrancy of this life, these trees and the grass. And (sighs) just take it in.

Konstantin Kisin 12:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Every now and then, just take it in and fucking enjoy this beautiful experience. If you were on your deathbed right now, if you were some 98-year-old guy with ju- just nothing left, looking back at you at this age-

Konstantin Kisin 12:41 Mm.

Joe Rogan 12:42 ... you'd be like, "Goddamn, why didn't I have more fun?"

Francis Foster 12:45 You know, that's it. I, I, I ha- I had this kind of like epiphany once, uh, on psychedelics and it was just... I just think we don't have enough fun.

Joe Rogan 12:54 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 12:54 No.

Francis Foster 12:54 We just don't. We... And I, I'm as guilty of this as the rest of, of people where I'm just like, "Right, I'm going to do here." And, you know, "And I've got to do, like, this spot or whatever else, so you've got to do it, and I've got to make sure that it's got to be perfect, and it's got to do this and this and this." And you go, "Is that actually what I got into this for? Did I actually get into to be so rigid, to live my life on train tracks? Or did I get into it to play, have fun, meet people, enjoy life?" I mean, that's why we started this.

Konstantin Kisin 13:22 Yeah.

Francis Foster 13:22 That's why we did this. That's why we set up podcasts. That's why we did standup. It's because we wanted a life that was fun.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well said. As well said as you could say it. I think there's d- delaying gratitude, right?

Konstantin Kisin 13:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:36 So, the, the thing about the difficult work, difficult work of, like, putting together a set or putting together a joke... Like, I, I literally fell asleep at my fucking keyboard last night.

Francis Foster 13:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:46 I was sitting in front of Microsoft Word and I just nodded out. I'm like, "Fuck, go to bed," 'cause it was pretty late.

Francis Foster 13:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:53 But I don't want to do that. You know what I want to do? I want to go watch car videos on YouTube. I want to watch professional pool matches. I want to watch th- I don't want to sit there and fucking fester over material.

Francis Foster 14:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:04 But I know I have to do it. You have to... The, the only way it feels really good when it kills is if it sucks for a long time (laughs) in front of a computer.

Konstantin Kisin 14:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:12 It doesn't always suck. It's like it sucks for a few minutes until you get flowing, and then you like... Then you're into the process of it, and then it's stimulating. But there's that weird resistance, you know, that thing that in... from The War of Art that Pressfield talks about. There's a part of us that, like, resists. So-

Konstantin Kisin 14:28 And what does he say that is, Joe?

Joe Rogan 14:30 Oh, man. Pressfield talks about it almost like in... He, he, he talked... Have you read War of Art?

Konstantin Kisin 14:37 No.

Joe Rogan 14:37 I've got a bunch of copies.

Francis Foster 14:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:38 'Cause I've recommended it so much that he sent me, like, a box of cop- We bought a box back in the LA studio, and I would give it to comedians. I'm like, "Pl- just read this." It's a real easy read, it's a short book, and it'll show you what's wh- There's a thing that fucks with people, whatever this resistance is. There's something about the human psyche that puts off doing things that you know you're supposed to do.

Francis Foster 15:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:01 And resistance to writing is particularly aggressive for whatever reason. And Pressfield talks about it. Like, he... And he essentially gives you tools and he, he says that you're gonna be a professional, and you're gonna think of yourself as a professional. And as a professional, we go to work. And when we go to work, we sit in front of the computer, we summon the muse.

Konstantin Kisin 15:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:22 And he believes in the muse. He doesn't believe in it just as like, "Just pretend it's a muse and that way you could be creative." He's like, "No, if you treat it like it's real, it is real." Like, the muse is a real thing. If you just show up every day at a certain time and put in the time, ideas will come to you.

Konstantin Kisin 15:39 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 15:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:39 They're not gonna come every day. It's not gonna be like picking strawberries in God's open field. No, it's gonna be this weird thing. But if you do it enough, i- if you treat it like it is a muse, it will perform as a muse does. And if you do the work, you, you will reap these rewards. And it gives you, like, this sort of, like, very simple, well outlined sort of guide to how to do that.

Konstantin Kisin 16:04 That's really interesting. It resonates a lot with me because when I'm, uh, I write a lot of Substack articles now, and that works really well. And all I do is I sit down, I know I've got two hours, and within five minutes, it starts flowing.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 16:18 And-

Joe Rogan 16:18 The first five minutes are like... (imitates music playing)

Konstantin Kisin 16:20 Yeah. It really helps if I came into it with an existing idea already, and then I can just go (whooshes) and flesh it out.

Joe Rogan 16:27 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 16:27 You know? That resonates a lot.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Ari Shapiro used to have this, uh, quote on his, uh, laptop. I think it's Hemingway, and it said, "The first draft of everything is shit."

Francis Foster 16:39 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 16:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:40 (laughs) I think it's Hemingway. Is that a Hemingway quote? We'll see, find out.

Konstantin Kisin 16:45 Uh, even if it isn't, that's still true.

Francis Foster 16:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:46 But Ari, Ari had that as a sticker, like, on his scr- like, right below his screen, r- where the space between the screen and the keyboard.

Francis Foster 16:53 Yeah. Yeah. Do you know one thing that I find for creativity as well and the way of getting good ideas is it's so important-

Joe Rogan 16:59 Yeah, it's Hemingway.

Francis Foster 17:00 ... the first... Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 17:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:01 (laughs)

Francis Foster 17:01 (laughs) ... is it's so important to play. It's so important to play. So, if you just... I find it really helpful to go for a walk, maybe grab a coffee, don't listen to music, don't listen to anything, and just walk.

Joe Rogan 17:14 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 17:15 And things that have happened in your day, you'll just notice certain things. Like, a couple of days ago, uh, I was in the gym with, uh, g- uh, Gold's Gym, and RFK Jr. came in with like five dudes in j- jeans, a polo shirt, and came in. And then he was on the be- on the bench, I was on the bench, and he obliterated me, and then just left again. And I was like, "That's so funny." There's something there that a guy who's in his mid-70s comes in, dominates me, leaves. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 17:47 He's mid, he's mid-70s?

Francis Foster 17:49 (laughs) Yeah, he's ab-

Joe Rogan 17:50 I think he's just 70.

Francis Foster 17:51 Oh, is he 70?

Konstantin Kisin 17:52 Well, still-

Joe Rogan 17:54 Is he... Is he mid-70s?

Konstantin Kisin 17:56 Holy sh- he looks about 35.

Joe Rogan 17:57 I thought, I thought he said 57.

Francis Foster 17:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:59 How old is he?

Francis Foster 18:00 He's 70.

18:01 He looks about 55, man. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:03 Yeah, well, he's very fit. He, he works out a lot, but in jeans, which is very gimmicky. I don't like it. I would recommend sweatpants or shorts.

Francis Foster 18:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:11 What are we doing? Why are you wearing jeans? Do you know they make better stuff for working out?

Francis Foster 18:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:15 Like, if you wear jeans, to me, that tells me you work out kinda. Like, you, there's no way you're sweating in jeans. You know, there's no way you're running five miles on a treadmill in jeans. You're just not gonna do that.

Konstantin Kisin 18:28 No.

Joe Rogan 18:29 So you're only getting to a certain level of workout if you're wearing jeans, period.

Konstantin Kisin 18:33 What if he's just doing weights?

Joe Rogan 18:36 Yeah, you could just do weights. Yeah, you could just do weights with jeans, but you shouldn't just do weights. You should, you should... Cardio should be like vitamins.

Francis Foster 18:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:43 Like, you, you need it like you need everything else. Like, you need protein, you need fats. You know, like, you need vitamins. You need cardio. Cardio's important.

Francis Foster 18:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:51 Your sy- your system should be stressed. Your system should be able to perform work for long periods of time. If it can't, it's a bad system. And if you just want a system that looks good at the beach, that's dumb. That's dumb. That's a stupid thing. Like, you can have both things. You can have a system that looks good at the beach, but also have a system that can... You can run. You could do stuff. You could put in, like... If you have to hike somewhere, you can make it there.

Francis Foster 19:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:17 Some people won't make it, you know. Like, if... That's one thing to understand. Like, you're trying to get over a mountain, not everybody's gonna make it. There's a lot of us that are out there in society listening to this right now that can't go over a hill, a really big hill. That's crazy. That's crazy.

Francis Foster 19:34 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:34 So if you go to the gym and you just do, like, bench press and, you know, you, you just do like fucking trap pull-downs and shit, and you got a big upper body, and then you can't get o- go over a hill, and you, you could die, like something's chasing you, you can't get away. Like, that's dumb. That's really stupid. When you could have just had both.

Francis Foster 19:52 Yeah. I mean, he's got a security team of five people, so he doesn't-

Joe Rogan 19:56 I'm not meaning him. He's 70 years old.

Francis Foster 19:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:59 But I mean, it's just like-

Francis Foster 20:00 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:00 ... don't work out in jeans.

Francis Foster 20:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:01 This is just my advice.

Francis Foster 20:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Just work out in a way where you can't wear jeans 'cause they're so uncomfortable 'cause you're sweating.

Francis Foster 20:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:07 And if you're not doing that, then... I mean, maybe he does jeans for others... Maybe he does no jeans for others. Maybe he swims. Maybe he gets cardio in in another way, and that's just what he likes to do to, to sweat.

Konstantin Kisin 20:17 Maybe he just wore jeans this one time-

Francis Foster 20:19 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 20:19 ... and we spend five minutes talking about it.

Francis Foster 20:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:21 But, but let me just say also I'm a hypocrite 'cause one of my favorite guys to watch online is this guy Tom Haviland. And this guy is this psycho that lives in Australia. And he was some S- Australia Special Forces guy, I think. He's... What is he, like, 6'9", 360 pounds, and he wears, like, work clothes when he works out. And he's squatting, like, I don't know, 1,000 pounds or something and carrying giant fucking barrels and shit. Like, he's a freak. But he, he, everything he does is in, like, work boots and work pants and work shirts.

Francis Foster 20:56 He's not. He, he wanted me to... He's not aus- a former Special Forces.

Joe Rogan 21:00 Why do they keep saying that?

Francis Foster 21:01 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Okay, what is he?

Francis Foster 21:02 I don't know. He just wanted to... He texted me and said-

Joe Rogan 21:05 Oh, you got a phone number?

Francis Foster 21:06 No, I mean, like, a DM. He DM'd me.

Joe Rogan 21:08 So, why... So, that was just one of those wild internet rumors?

Francis Foster 21:11 Yeah, he said, "Thanks for all the recent message, messages."

Joe Rogan 21:13 What is his background?

Francis Foster 21:15 Uh, could you please not... I don't know. He just, it didn't say. It just said he's not there.

Joe Rogan 21:19 So whatever this guy's background is, he's a fucking freak.

Francis Foster 21:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:22 I mean, he's l- like, the weirdestly str- well, might be one of the strongest humans alive. And look, everything he does is this, this stuff. Everything he does is, like, with work clothes on.

Konstantin Kisin 21:34 Has he got a bulletproof vest on?

Joe Rogan 21:35 No, it's a weight vest.

Konstantin Kisin 21:36 It's a weight vest.

Francis Foster 21:37 Yeah.

21:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 21:37 So he does a lot of weird, like, off-balance, off-angle stuff, a lot of weird farmer's carries with like super heavy weight. But he's freakishly strong, man. And gigantic.

Konstantin Kisin 21:51 Oh my... That vertical is insane.

Joe Rogan 21:54 That's a vertical for an almost 400-pound man.

Francis Foster 21:57 Fuck, whoa.

Joe Rogan 21:57 You don't understand how big that guy is. Like-

Francis Foster 21:59 Wow.

Joe Rogan 22:00 Yeah, my dick is where his face is, or his, his dick is where my face is, rather.

Francis Foster 22:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:04 Like, look, look at the size of that.

Francis Foster 22:06 He put up his diet one time, and it had something insane like 400 grams of protein for the day or something.

22:11 Whoa.

Konstantin Kisin 22:11 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 22:11 Yeah, like his whole feed is this kinda shit, like weird kind of bizarre weightlifting movements, Zercher squats, farmer's carries. And he's got an inter- interesting philosophy about that, I think, what I'd read. I don't know if this is disinformation too, but it's that, like, carrying things apparently is very underrated in terms of, like, your ability to, like, increase your overall strength. Like, walking with things is really good, which a lot of people don't do. You know, like, actually, like, picking up weight and carrying it around is very good for your, just your overall general strength.

Konstantin Kisin 22:46 And is that 'cause you're using the micro-muscles that you don't if you're in one position just going... (exhales)

Joe Rogan 22:51 Yeah. Like, you know how they do those farmer's carries? You know, a lot of people do them with a kettlebell in each hand, and I do that too. But they say one of the best ways to do it is actually a kettlebell in one hand and then just go back the other way with it in the other hand because it's really awkward.

Konstantin Kisin 23:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:03 'Cause you're not balancing it out with the weight on the other side.

Francis Foster 23:06 Ah.

Joe Rogan 23:06 So all of your stabilizer muscles have to work overtime to keep that thing in a certain position, whereas it would be kinda like locked out with both arms if you had the weight in both hands.

Francis Foster 23:15 Do you know, I was watching RFK Jr. work out, and I was like, "That's so American." That is s-

Joe Rogan 23:20 It's very American.

Francis Foster 23:21 Can you imagine Rishi Sunak doing that?

23:24 (laughs) Who's Rishi Sunak?

23:25 Rishi Sunak is our Prime Minister.

Konstantin Kisin 23:26 Rishi Sunak is the Prime Minister of Britain.

Francis Foster 23:27 Oh.

Konstantin Kisin 23:28 So he's our leader, right?

Francis Foster 23:29 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 23:29 He's walked in.

Francis Foster 23:29 He's this little dweeb. You know, he'll walk in.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Yeah, the meek shall inherit the earth. It's in the Bible.

Francis Foster 23:35 (laughs) He'd be... The only real way you would see him is i- if he went to a, like, a Pilates class or legs, bums, and tums. You know what I mean?

Konstantin Kisin 23:42 He wouldn't do that either.

Joe Rogan 23:42 Legs, bums, and tums. Is that a class you guys have over there?

Francis Foster 23:46 Yeah. (laughs)

23:46 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 23:46 That's hilarious. I mean, it's mostly populated by women, as you can imagine.

Joe Rogan 23:50 Yeah. Oh, I would imagine.

Francis Foster 23:51 Hey, listen-

Joe Rogan 23:51 Yeah, not... Or creeps.

Francis Foster 23:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:53 You know.

Konstantin Kisin 23:54 It's a good combination. Lots of women, some creeps.

Francis Foster 23:56 I was gonna tell a story about when I went to a legs, bums, and tums class, but let's, let's move on.

Joe Rogan 24:00 How many have you gone to?

Francis Foster 24:01 (laughs)

24:01 I went with my, with, with my ex-girlfriend 'cause I took the piss out of her to d- and I was like, "Legs, bums, and tums." She went, "All right, come along. L- let's do it together. Come on, let's see it."

Joe Rogan 24:10 Oh.

Francis Foster 24:11 ... 10 minutes in, I was dead. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:14 (laughs) Yeah. Yoga will humble you. Try that. People think yoga's easy.

Francis Foster 24:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:19 Yoga's hard as shit.

Konstantin Kisin 24:20 Oh, yeah. We, we did yoga for a while and he had-

Francis Foster 24:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:23 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 24:23 ... he, he was... He couldn't walk straight for about three months afterward-

Joe Rogan 24:26 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 24:26 ... 'cause he fucked his back.

Francis Foster 24:27 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 24:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:27 Did you?

Francis Foster 24:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:28 Oh, no. You gotta be careful with that.

Francis Foster 24:30 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 24:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:30 It's a thing. There's certain positions, like that one when you're, uh, standing up and you have to hold your foot out extended. Like, if you have a weak lower back, that one could be really tricky.

Konstantin Kisin 24:40 I think it was something like that-

Joe Rogan 24:41 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 24:41 ... that he did 'em in.

Joe Rogan 24:42 That's not something you should just jump right into.

Francis Foster 24:44 No. But, but the problem is, you see women in their 70s smashing it in the yoga class and you're like-

Joe Rogan 24:49 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 24:50 ... "Doris, if you can do it, I can do it."

Joe Rogan 24:52 Well, also they're smashing it with their body weight, right? So their body weight is significantly less than yours. So if that guy's doing yoga, that Tom Haviland guy's doing yoga, he's doing yoga, he's 390 pounds. That's a whole different thing holding those positions as an 89-pound old lady.

Francis Foster 25:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:08 You know? If you're a 100-pound person, th- it's easier to hold your leg up. Y- it's like it weighs less.

Francis Foster 25:15 It does.

Joe Rogan 25:15 There's less gravity. It's, it's not... It doesn't require as much. It's easier to move around. You're not getting pulled down by the Earth as much.

Konstantin Kisin 25:21 Trust me though, Joe, I've seen him do stretches.

Francis Foster 25:23 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 25:23 Doris is a lot more flexible than Francis. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:26 (laughs)

Francis Foster 25:26 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 25:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:26 It's that too. But it is... But yoga's not just strength, it's stability. It's really about stability. Even your f- I b- I... When I first started doing it, what I was shocked was, like, how much my foot muscles were working.

Francis Foster 25:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:37 I was like, "Wow, my feet are getting tired. This is kinda crazy."

Francis Foster 25:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:39 I didn't anticipate that. I thought you just stood and you're good. But when you're standing a lot on one leg, you realize, like, "Oh, this is like... This is kinda weak." It's just sort of supported by the other side, and both of them are doing a half-ass job. But in yoga, and you have to use one foot, th- that little sucker really has to work.

Francis Foster 25:56 You know, the... That's the great thing about exercise, is it just humbles you.

Joe Rogan 26:01 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 26:01 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 26:01 You could be crushing it in every area of your life. You're like, "Yeah, you know what? I am the shit."

Konstantin Kisin 26:06 Hmm.

Francis Foster 26:06 "I'm doing this, I'm doing that." You get to the, you know, the... You get to the b... This didn't happen. You get to the (laughs) the, what's it called? The pec deck or whatever it is. And then you grab that thing and you try and slide it off where the weights are.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Yeah.

Francis Foster 26:18 And then you're struggling to do it (laughs) and you're like, "Yeah, I'll just do this weight."

Konstantin Kisin 26:22 Joe doesn't know what you're talking about, mate. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:24 I do. I sympathize. I've seen these things happen.

Francis Foster 26:28 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 26:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:29 (laughs) But it's... I... That's why I was thinking i- like, a mandated workout for everybody in the morning.

Francis Foster 26:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Even if you can't run, do something else. If that...

Francis Foster 26:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:36 If we really did do that, it would humble people. And being a little bit more humble buys e- especially something that you decided to do. You know, it's voluntary. It's good for you. It's good for your brain to know that you can do that.

Konstantin Kisin 26:48 Totally. I... Well, the one thing that I think makes all of that stuff more difficult here is, in the UK, we walk a lot-

Joe Rogan 26:54 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 26:54 ... 'cause we c- you can get places by walking.

Francis Foster 26:56 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 26:56 Here, it's kind of... In a lot of places, you, you can't really. You have to drive everywhere.

Joe Rogan 27:00 Welcome to the future.

Francis Foster 27:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:01 So you don't have to fucking walk everywhere like a cave person.

Francis Foster 27:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:05 You're welcome. (laughs)

Francis Foster 27:06 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 27:07 What was that movie where they're all being, like, carried around on these... Like, they're all fat and they're all getting... It's like a kids', uh, anim- animated movie. Was it WALL·E or something like that? Where there's, like, this spaceship and they're all on these, like, pods that they just get...

Joe Rogan 27:20 I think that was WALL·E.

Konstantin Kisin 27:21 Yeah.

Francis Foster 27:21 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 27:21 And they just-

Joe Rogan 27:22 Was that WALL·E?

Konstantin Kisin 27:22 Then they're constantly sucking on a milkshake.

Joe Rogan 27:25 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 27:25 Or whatever. Just endless sugar and calories.

Francis Foster 27:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:27 I think what's gonna get us is the robot sex dolls.

Konstantin Kisin 27:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:31 Yeah.

Francis Foster 27:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:31 Because, you know, w- you, you guys were talking about... Y- you know, if, if y- if there's a d- decline in population, right, that means d-... And it is like a severe decl... In America, the amount of men that are single is very high. The amount of men that haven't had sex in like over a year is very high. And there's a lot of people that are just locked into their computers.

Francis Foster 27:55 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 27:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:55 And they're just on their computer all the time. It's super, super common. If something came along that allowed... Like, wi- with these exponential increases in technology, like, what, what you, what you're seeing with these AI programs now, which i- ... Really stunning visuals that they can create in seconds, in, in minutes they can have a, like, a short film. It's crazy what they can do now. If they can do that with a physical moving object, like if they can get a real humanoid object that is... has perfect features and is your girlfriend and is warm and sweet and tu... and gives you everything you want from a human-

Konstantin Kisin 28:39 Never argues with you.

Joe Rogan 28:40 ... it's game over.

Francis Foster 28:42 Mm.

Joe Rogan 28:42 It's game over for the human race. Like, if I was artificial intelligence, I wouldn't kill everybody. I would just let them die off. Like, the most humane way to do it is to let them realize that they're unnecessary and there's no need to have kids when you can fuck your Jennifer Lopez robot.

Francis Foster 29:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:01 And that's what they would do.

Francis Foster 29:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:02 They would j- they would just live with their robots and no one would have, like, real relations anymore. It would go away so quick. It would be s- we... Then they'd start having robot babies so you don't have to... Like, so women that want kids, like, you would just have a robot baby.

Francis Foster 29:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Since you can't have a regular baby, they'll just give you this baby and this baby will stay a baby forever. (laughs)

Francis Foster 29:24 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 29:24 The first time we had Louise Perry on... Are you familiar with Louise?

Joe Rogan 29:28 I know the name.

Konstantin Kisin 29:28 She wrote a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution. She's very, very good. Based out of the UK. Uh, and the first time we had her on, she made... You know how we always ask, uh, what's the one thing we're not talking about at the end of the show?

Joe Rogan 29:40 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 29:41 Sh-... This is wha-... This was her answer. Uh, she was like, "I think sex robots are coming and they're gonna ruin everything." Because the male desire to do things, to create, to build, to innovate, to research, to, to stand up for what you believe in, to fight, all of that is tied in to wanting to raise your status to be with a woman. Right?

Joe Rogan 29:59 100%.

Konstantin Kisin 30:00 And so you take that away, you're gonna be left with a bunch of fuckers on pods sipping milkshakes. That's, that's-

Joe Rogan 30:06 Yep.

Konstantin Kisin 30:06 ... that's what you... A best case scenario.

Francis Foster 30:07 Mm.

Joe Rogan 30:08 I think it's gonna happen before we even realize it's happened. I think it's gonna happen very quickly.... 'cause I think once those things get implemented, we're gonna see just a giant steep drop off of childbirth and of regular relationships. And what happens to women? What do they do? 'Cause they don't have that same desire. They wanna actually emotionally connect with someone.

Francis Foster 30:26 Mm.

Joe Rogan 30:26 You know, what, is it... Was it... I don't know if it's a true quote, but I remember reading it and thinking it was, and I'm, I'm not sure if it is now. George Harrison, or someone that attributed to George Harrison, said, "All I need from a woman is to be attracted to her. Everything else I can get from a man." There's people that think that way.

Francis Foster 30:42 Mm.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Right? So if you're a, if you're a guy and you think that way, and then all of a sudden you have your robot fuck doll and you're just hanging with your buddies... But women don't think that way. Women wanna be like emotionally ca- uh, generally wanna be.

Francis Foster 30:55 Mm. Hmm. Mm.

Joe Rogan 30:56 I mean, I like to generalize.

Francis Foster 30:57 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 30:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:58 It's good. It's fun. (laughs)

Francis Foster 31:00 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 31:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:00 But, but generally- (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 31:01 It's like walking the edge of a cliff nowadays.

Francis Foster 31:03 Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 31:03 Used to be you could just do that, right?

Joe Rogan 31:05 Yeah. Well, you just gotta be, uh, just honest about what you're doing. I'm ge- certainly generalizing. But I think there's gonna be a whole lot less women that want a robot fuck boy.

Francis Foster 31:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:13 They're not gonna want a robot fuck boy. They're not gonna respect that guy. It's not a real person with real struggles that can really provide. That's just, like, some robot dick that plows them when they come home from the club. Which maybe that's great, maybe that's fine, but I have a feeling it won't be.

Francis Foster 31:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:26 I have a feeling that the, the ingrained human reward systems in us that were designed to ensure that we replicate, those are all gonna get fucked up by robot fuck dolls.

Konstantin Kisin 31:39 Man, the-

Joe Rogan 31:39 They're gonna get wrecked.

Konstantin Kisin 31:40 The men and women are the basic building block of human society.

Joe Rogan 31:43 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 31:43 It's what we evolved to be. And it's why that, you talked earlier about finding your soulmates, I- I- I think... Look, this is a massive generalization, and obviously it won't be true for some people, but I think it's very difficult to be truly fulfilled until you have that and until you have kids. It's very difficult. People can do it. People manage it. People find other ways. But it's such a basic building block of our evolutionary history that it's very... It's gonna be very hard to live without those things being in place, wit- with tho- those things being available. And no matter how nice and pretty and compliant your AI girlfriend is, it ain't the real thing.

Francis Foster 32:19 And it's also as well, I don't think people talk about this enough, is that you look at a lot of guys and when they get with the right woman, they change.

Konstantin Kisin 32:27 Totally.

Joe Rogan 32:28 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 32:28 They change. They become a better person. They become a better person in ev- every aspect of their life.

Joe Rogan 32:33 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 32:34 Women tend to have a civilizing influence on men. And if that is taken away, then all you've got is something that is going to appeal to males based instincts.

Joe Rogan 32:45 Mm.

Francis Foster 32:45 Which is to fuck, to have sex. "All right, I've done that. I've satisfied that biological urge. You know what? Let's go for another dopamine hit. Let's go for a dopamine hit here. Let's go smoke some weed and then let's go and play video games whatever time in the morning."

Joe Rogan 32:59 Yeah.

Francis Foster 32:59 Because why am I gonna sacrifice what, anything, when everything can be about my pleasure, my dopamine?

Joe Rogan 33:07 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 33:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:08 Well, there's also, um, men and women think d- again. Did we say we're generalizing?

Francis Foster 33:15 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 33:16 (laughs)

Francis Foster 33:16 This is why I love this podcast. It's having a chat with mates-

Joe Rogan 33:19 Yeah.

Francis Foster 33:19 ... with severe consequences. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 33:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:23 (laughs)

Francis Foster 33:23 There's no consequences. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 33:23 No, there's gonna be headlines about you slagging off RFK tomorrow. It's, uh, "Joe Rogan destroys RFK Jr.'s jeans."

Francis Foster 33:29 No. Just don't... I love the guy. I love the guy. Don't work out in jeans.

Konstantin Kisin 33:30 Of course you do. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:31 Yeah.

Francis Foster 33:31 If you work out in jeans, it means you're not working out that hard. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 33:33 (laughs)

Francis Foster 33:33 But, but then I get said I'm a hypocrite because that Tom Havelon guy, he works out in jeans.

Konstantin Kisin 33:38 Anyway, we're generalizing, but...

Francis Foster 33:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:41 Uh, where was I?

Konstantin Kisin 33:42 Men and women.

Francis Foster 33:42 Men and women. Oh, Jesus. We're really still talking about that?

Konstantin Kisin 33:45 Oh, yeah.

Francis Foster 33:45 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 33:46 Oh, yeah, baby.

Joe Rogan 33:46 Uh, what was about, uh, g-

Konstantin Kisin 33:48 Francis was talking about dopamine hits.

Francis Foster 33:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:50 Yeah.

Francis Foster 33:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:52 I don't know if there's a solution for them that would work as well as a solution for men. It would have to be like a virtual reality boyfriend. But, like, women don't even want fake diamonds. You know, they, they... Or, or artifi-... Or diamonds that are artificially made. Real diamonds that are made in a lab. They don't want them. They want them ones that the slaves have to dig out of the ground.

Francis Foster 34:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:13 It's a, it's a weird thing. So a woman, I don't think... Again, generalizing.

Francis Foster 34:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:18 I don't think most women are gonna have any desire to be with a robot man. I think they want an actual one.

Konstantin Kisin 34:24 I think the struggle is part of the appeal. My wife has said it to me in terms, like, she said, "It's important that I watch you struggle to do something and then achieve it." That, like, she gets... That makes her feel good. Like, I'm-

Joe Rogan 34:35 100%.

Konstantin Kisin 34:35 You know?

Joe Rogan 34:35 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 34:35 The struggle is important.

Joe Rogan 34:37 It's, it's not something that a man wants from a woman necessarily-

Konstantin Kisin 34:41 No.

Francis Foster 34:42 No.

Joe Rogan 34:42 ... either, which is odd. But, but these things are real. Like, we can pretend that they're unfair or they're unjust or they're sexist or whatever. Okay. But they're real. The p-

Konstantin Kisin 34:53 They just are.

Joe Rogan 34:54 Their desires are... And the, the, the appreciation of people who struggle is real.

Konstantin Kisin 34:58 Yeah. So my wife is like, "I need to see you struggle. I need to see you overcome. If I ask you to put up a shelf or whatever, I want you to do it 'cause then I can watch you do it and be like, 'Oh, he's put in the effort.'" (laughs)

Francis Foster 35:07 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 35:08 Literally, you know. And I think actually quite a lot of women would say that if they were blunt and honest about what they want.

Joe Rogan 35:15 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 35:16 Yeah. We're gonna be able to read minds.

Francis Foster 35:18 We're generalizing.

Joe Rogan 35:18 And when we read minds, it's gonna be so baffling. We're gonna be like, "You guys thought what?"

Konstantin Kisin 35:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:23 Like, "What did you think? That's what you want? Wow, I had no idea. How is that possible? How do you like that?" Like, "What's going on in your fucking head?"

Francis Foster 35:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:33 We're, we're, we're actually reading women's minds and, like, you're gonna know, like, who is pretending to, uh, not be interested in you but is very interested in you. We're... People aren't gonna be able to be coy anymore. Gonna be very weird.

Francis Foster 35:46 Oh, yeah. And there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna get canceled.

Konstantin Kisin 35:49 (laughs)

Francis Foster 35:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:50 Well, what is canceling even gonna mean? The problem is a lot of the people that wanna cancel people have cancelable offenses in their own past.

Konstantin Kisin 35:57 Oh, baby. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:58 A big part of them.

Francis Foster 35:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:59 So I think that's, that is all gonna be out there. Your... All thoughts are gonna be out there.... I think it's a matter of time, and I don't think it's that long. I think within a decade, we're gonna have some ability, 'cause they're getting so close to it. They're, they're getting i- ... There was a Japanese study where they got some sort of visual evidence of dreams, some sort of a vi- ... It's not like you can see the dream, but they're getting close. They're zeroing in on particular images that people were experiencing while they were dreaming and they think they could desi- uh, decipher those. What is that technology? See if you can find what they're ... I think it was-

Francis Foster 36:37 Oh, go ahead.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Was it em- uh, what, was it, uh, functional magnetic resonance imagery? Is that what it was?

Francis Foster 36:44 Well, when I type it in, this story comes up from, like, almost 12 years ago when they f- ... I guess they started doing it.

Joe Rogan 36:50 That's when I saw ... There was a-

Francis Foster 36:51 ... or so. I saw it recently.

Joe Rogan 36:51 There was some sort of recent article about it.

Francis Foster 36:53 I know. I thought so too.

Joe Rogan 36:54 I think there's been some breakthrough.

Francis Foster 36:56 Uh, well, originally-

Joe Rogan 36:57 The point is, like, they're gonna get it, all right?

Francis Foster 36:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:59 They got that guy wearing the, the first Neuralink patient, who's wearing the Neuralink in his head now, and he's operating a computer for the first time, paralyzed. And he's playing video games. He's talking to people. It's wild. So we, we know that's, that's already been done. Okay, MRI sc- ... "MRI scans reveal what we see in dreams. Japanese researchers unveil visuals with 60% accuracy using innovative MRI scans in pivotal Kyoto study showcasing a breakthrough in sleep science." 60% accuracy is bananas. So this is like Morse code. (singing) It's not, uh, you know, having a FaceTime chat. That FaceTime chat's coming. Okay? Morse code, (singing) we had to do that first, got through the smoke signals. Out there fucking-

Francis Foster 37:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:48 ... making circles in the desert. And now, instead of smoke signals, we have, uh, i- impos- impossible technology that anybody 100 years fr- ago would've thought of as complete magic. Well, this is gonna make that look like a fucking walk in the park with your friends. It's gonna make it ... Look, it's gonna make it seem so mundane that th- ... What that shit is gonna do is unite all brains, all brains united in the weirdest sort of hive mind situation that anybody could ever i- ... You couldn't imagine what that would be like, just like we couldn't imagine in the 1700s what it's like to just get on Twitter and read news about Beirut. You know? How could you know? How could you instantaneously get news about another part of the world that you're nowhere near? Well, because the world's changed. The whole thing's changed. It's gonna be everybody's brain connected.

Francis Foster 38:41 I mean ...

Konstantin Kisin 38:42 May you live in interesting times.

Francis Foster 38:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:43 That is the weirdest w- ... It's, it's gonna be a whole new way of interfacing with reality.

Francis Foster 38:49 And do you know what?

Joe Rogan 38:50 I might not be right, but I think I ... I think it's k- ... I think that's i- ... It's like one plus one is two, two plus three ... It's like it's right there. It's coming.

Francis Foster 38:58 Do you know ... Here's the ... 'Cause we all d- dream some pretty fucked up stuff. You know like you wake up, and you're like, "What was that about?"

Joe Rogan 39:06 Yeah.

Francis Foster 39:06 And just imagine, like, you know, you, you, you, you had this Neuralink program up, uh, you know, attached to you. And you, you wake up, and the sci- ... And you say to the scientist, "So what did I dream about?" And they're like, "Turns out you're gay, mate." (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 39:19 (laughs)

Francis Foster 39:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:20 (laughs) Trying to live everybody as gay in their dreams.

Francis Foster 39:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:23 What if you're straight in reality-

Francis Foster 39:25 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:26 ... but you're definitely gay in your dreams?

Francis Foster 39:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:28 And you have to decide which one you're gonna be. So if you're a gay guy, then-

Francis Foster 39:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:31 ... you're straight in your dreams.

Francis Foster 39:33 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 39:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:33 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 39:34 I've always said I think it'd be a lot easier to be gay.

Joe Rogan 39:37 Oh, there's definitely some value in that in c- in certain circumstances. But when they get old, it gets rough.

Francis Foster 39:43 Hmm. Hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:43 It gets rough 'cause men are mean, you know? They're mean and, you know, you're an old man, and he doesn't wanna suck your dick anymore. Sorry. (laughs)

Francis Foster 39:52 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 39:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:52 Nobody ... They wanna go get a young guy. And that's the difference, you know, between, like, an old man and woman couple who are just hanging out together versus a, an old guy who no one wants to fuck him anymore, and he has to try to pay young guys to be with him, and then it gets ugly and sad.

Konstantin Kisin 40:07 All right. You've ruined the appeal for me, Joe.

Francis Foster 40:08 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 40:08 I was just like, it's so much-

Joe Rogan 40:10 It gets you sad.

Konstantin Kisin 40:10 ... it's so much easier. Like, if I ask Francis, "Mate, do you wanna go out for dinner?" He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Where do you wanna go?" "Oh, I don't mind." I'd never have that conversation with my wife. It ... Like, it's like a half an hour affair-

Joe Rogan 40:19 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 40:19 ... of working it out, making sure it's the right place and the right time and all of it, you know?

Joe Rogan 40:23 I had some, uh, friends of mine that were a gay couple, and they decided to get a surrogate. So they get a surrogate, and then the lady decides to keep the kid, and she kept it. She's like, "No, I'm gonna keep your kid." Ah, I like it.

Konstantin Kisin 40:35 That doesn't surprise me.

Joe Rogan 40:36 I like the kid. Yeah. That ... It surprises me that that doesn't happen most of the time.

Konstantin Kisin 40:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:41 Like, once the baby is so connected to you, that must be a traumatic experience for the mother.

Konstantin Kisin 40:46 Yeah, and the baby probably.

Joe Rogan 40:47 Oh, yeah. It's, it's wh- ... It's a weird one. The, the surrogate baby thing is a weird one.

Konstantin Kisin 40:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:54 That's a we- ... That is like ... I mean, (sighs) it's like a modern-day version of some weird shit that people would've done in, like, the 1700s, you know? Like, "Carry my baby for me."

Konstantin Kisin 41:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:06 I'm like, "What? You can get-

Francis Foster 41:07 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:07 ... you can hire someone to carry your baby? What? Hold on." (laughs) "Yeah. We, we're having a bunch of surrogate babies now. We decided to just keep making kids, but I don't wanna carry them. So we're just gonna stuff them inside someone and have them carry them, and I'm gonna pay them."

Konstantin Kisin 41:20 It's a bit of a moral landmine. Like, people get very triggered when anyone says anything about it. But y- ... That tearing of the maternal bond-

Joe Rogan 41:27 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 41:28 ... that ain't, that ain't no joke, that thing, you know?

Joe Rogan 41:30 This is not a joke. And that is something that we can't discount. If they do create an artificial human being, the, the re- ... The reality is without all those natural processes that are in place that you don't even understand until they're actually happening, if you don't have them at all, you don't have them at all in this thing ... This thing wasn't bonded to its mother, it didn't have, like, be- uh, fights with its sister where they made up, it didn't have, like, someone who-

Francis Foster 41:59 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:59 ... was mean to them at school that became their best friend, didn't have all that stuff, none of that stuff, so what do you ha- ... What ... Is that a demon? Like, what is that? What is that? What is this new life form that's smarter than you that has n-... no real emotions because it has no real stake in the game because it was created with a fucking 3D printer. What is that, that thing you're sticking your dick into, sir?

Francis Foster 42:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:20 What is that? You're- you're- you're literally fucking a demon in your h- I mean, it's the, uh, the thing that's gonna overcome us. And if overcomes us just by seducing us into putting our seed inside of it instead of women, because you can't be bothered because then you can't play Call of Duty all day. Like, that, uh, for a lot of young guys who, especially if they don't have status, so it's very difficult for them to get a woman that they're attracted to. They don't have money, they're not attractive, whatever, fill in the blank. If they can just have the literal hottest woman that's ever lived and they can have sex with her and they're not... And it costs like, what? 25 grand and you can mortgage it, you know?

Francis Foster 42:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:00 These motherfucking... You know, you could, you could figure out a way to-

Francis Foster 43:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:04 You could figure out a way to get the money. They'll finance it, you know, like it's-

Konstantin Kisin 43:07 $1,000 down, £1,000 a month.

Joe Rogan 43:09 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 43:09 $1,000 a month.

Francis Foster 43:09 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:10 Or you sell your data, you know, if you agree to opt in to the- the porn site.

Francis Foster 43:16 (laughs)

43:16 Can you imagine how depressing it must be if your sex bot gets repossessed?

Joe Rogan 43:20 Ooh.

Francis Foster 43:21 (laughs)

43:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:21 I bet they would do that a lot.

Francis Foster 43:23 We're foreclosing.

Joe Rogan 43:23 She would scream and cry for you. It would motivate you to pay up.

Francis Foster 43:26 (laughs)

43:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:26 She's screaming and crying and manipulating you as they're dragging her away.

Francis Foster 43:29 Oh, yeah. You- d- that would be devastating.

Joe Rogan 43:32 And they're telling you they're gonna fuck, your sex robot. You're like, "No."

Francis Foster 43:35 No. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:35 "Don't."

Francis Foster 43:36 "I'm gonna defile it."

Konstantin Kisin 43:36 "We're gonna give it to your best friend."

Francis Foster 43:38 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 43:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:39 Oh, right. He's got eyes on it.

Francis Foster 43:41 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:41 No, he's just broke.

Francis Foster 43:43 Yeah. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 43:43 You know what I find interesting, Joe, is that there- I haven't seen too much really good sci-fi being made, which I find interesting because-

Joe Rogan 43:51 I heard Dune was great, but I haven't seen it.

Konstantin Kisin 43:52 Yeah, Dune is great, but it's not along these lines. So what I mean is, like, when- when we first started getting the technology for space travel, you had these people like Isaac Asimov and- and robotics was coming, and they would have really interesting est- uh, stories and books of exploring the idea of, you know, what does that look like when there are robots? What are the-

Francis Foster 44:13 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 44:13 How would you run that? What would be the potential downfalls and stuff like that? Uh, and it was, it w- you know, I remember when I was in my, as a teenager, it was the golden age for that kind of stuff.

Francis Foster 44:23 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 44:23 And now we seem to have these giant breakthroughs coming and we don't seem to have, uh, enough authors and artists thinking about some of the dilemmas involved and really kind of trying to think that through through a story lens about what the impact might be.

Joe Rogan 44:38 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 44:38 You know, and that's interesting to me because I think, I think we just genuinely have no fucking idea what's coming.

Joe Rogan 44:43 Well, I- I also think that the leaps between the initial rocketry program, you know, NASA, Apollo program, and then what could come next-

Konstantin Kisin 44:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:54 ... is a lot easier to chart out than what... I mean, and they were wrong about a lot of shit.

Francis Foster 44:59 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:00 Like, there was a show called Space: 1999, remember I used to watch when I was a kid? I was like, "Wow, 1999, they're in space."

Francis Foster 45:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:05 Like, everything was like super futuristic, like crazy, like Star Wars-like in 1999. Like, that's what they thought.

Konstantin Kisin 45:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:13 (laughs) Nobody figured... Everybody thought flying cars.

Francis Foster 45:17 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 45:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:17 Everybody thought flying cars.

Francis Foster 45:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:18 No flying cars, you know?

Konstantin Kisin 45:19 Are they coming?

Joe Rogan 45:20 I- I mean, there's- there's some manufacturers that have made one. One guy has made one. I think it's a Chinese company, and it's a, uh, like a drone essentially. It's like you have a- a single seat in the center of it, and you close it like a helicopter, and you have drone, uh, w- you know, like the same kind of propellers that drones have.

Francis Foster 45:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:38 And you (drone sound) . So you just operate it like a drone. Um, but that's... There's a couple other ones, but there's nothing that's like commercially viable where they're gonna be able to sell as many of these as they sell Teslas.

Francis Foster 45:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:49 You know, it's not, it's not there yet, but it's not- probably not gonna get there. When the- when the AI hits, everything stops. When- when it goes live, when it becomes sentient, well, it's literal Skynet. You're gonna have a- a- an organic thing that's made out of electronics. It's gonna be a life form, and we- we're gonna give birth to this stupid fucking thing. (laughs)

Francis Foster 46:10 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 46:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:12 And I think everything's gonna be doomed. I think we're gonna have a government that's run by AI because it's gonna be the most efficient, and then who controls the AI? Oh, the most equitable, ethical people. Like it's gonna... It's- it could be real weird. It could be real weird because it's gonna be so much smarter than all the human beings combined. And you're gonna be able to use it to manipulate people, and if people are still allowed to vote, then you could use AI to sort of just manipulate them perfectly into leaning... They'll figure out, like, what is the issue that keeps you from voting for Biden over Trump? What is the issue that keeps you from voting independent for RFK Jr.? Let's see what it is, and let's monkey with the data, and let's get you information that stimulates that part of your brain just enough for all those fence-sitters go to the other side.

Francis Foster 46:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:59 And then who knows what's going on? Who knows who's running anything? If AI video is so goddamn good, they could take a photo of you and have you say anything. So who knows what Putin's saying and who knows what Zelenskyy's saying and who- who knows what anybody's saying anywhere in five years?

Francis Foster 47:18 That-

Joe Rogan 47:18 Who knows?

Francis Foster 47:18 ... that is absolutely terrifying.

Joe Rogan 47:21 That's real.

Konstantin Kisin 47:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:22 It's like, these are- these are undeniable truths that I think that we have to come to grips with before this shit hits. And when I say hits, obviously I'm a Luddite. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm extrapolating. I'm looking at where things are going, and I'm going, "This is gonna happen so fast, and it's gonna be so weird." It's not- it's not gonna just stop at ChatGPT-5. It's not gonna just stop at these robots that'll clean your kitchen. It's not gonna stop it though. It's gonna keep going, and it's gonna go quick, real quick, big leaps. Big re- big leaps, real quick, where the world is alien.

Francis Foster 47:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:58 Real quick.

Konstantin Kisin 47:59 And look at the stuff we're already seeing. I mean, Google Gemini, that was eye-opening.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Yes.

Francis Foster 48:04 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 48:04 That was eye-opening. I- I tried-

Joe Rogan 48:05 Yeah, because of influence, human influence.

Konstantin Kisin 48:07 I tried to talk- I tried to ask it some questions about contentious subjects and it was literally like talking to a woke 18-year-old.

Joe Rogan 48:14 God, that's so stupid.

Konstantin Kisin 48:15 ... because-

Joe Rogan 48:16 It's so stupid.

Konstantin Kisin 48:16 ... it, it refuses to give you certain information if you ask it about things that are controversial, let's say. Uh, you know, whatever, the, there's different examples you could ask it. It just says, "Well, I have the information, but I'm not gonna give it to you because it's harmful."

Joe Rogan 48:29 Oh.

Konstantin Kisin 48:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:31 God damn. That, that, that ideology, that pervasive, idiotic ideology is so terrifying. It's so terrifying how quickly people will adopt all of those principles without variation, rarely. They just, they just lump into that and, you know, and, and censorship is fine as long as you're censoring bad people.

Konstantin Kisin 48:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:56 Just... (sighs)

Francis Foster 48:58 Yeah. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 48:58 I mean, what... Look at what Australia is trying to do to... with Elon and, and X at the moment.

Joe Rogan 49:02 Yeah. We were talking about that earlier, this woman from Australia. Who is that lady?

Konstantin Kisin 49:05 I think she's a parliamentarian or a minister in the government, something like that.

Francis Foster 49:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:08 She's saying he should be locked up for what he's doing-

Francis Foster 49:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:10 ... on social media. Like, what is he doing? I wanna know what... Imagine, imagine that's your threshold for locking someone up.

Francis Foster 49:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Allowing people to talk?

Konstantin Kisin 49:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:19 You know, what is he doing that's so egregious? Like, does she have... I feel like if you make that statement, if you're a person that's an elected official and you make that statement, like, "This person should be locked up," if it's not for something very specific, you're terrifying me because you're in a position of power and you just wanna just flippantly lock people in a cage because they disagree with you? Please explain what it is. Like, what is he... I have not yet seen one thing. I've, I've not... He's not perfect. He's not... Doesn't make all the, the same moves that-

Francis Foster 49:52 I'm guessing it has to do with this.

Joe Rogan 49:54 Aclu- accuses Australia of censorship after court bans violent video.

Francis Foster 49:58 So there was a video of a bishop being stabbed at a church.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Oh, I saw that video.

Francis Foster 50:03 Okay. Write that.

Joe Rogan 50:04 So Australia is trying to ban that video.

Francis Foster 50:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:08 Okay. Well, I agree with Elon. So imagine thinking that he should be... You want some water?

Konstantin Kisin 50:13 Uh, I'd love some coffee if there's some of thatjoke.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Yeah, here you go, bro.

Konstantin Kisin 50:15 Thanks, bro. Thank you, my friend.

Joe Rogan 50:18 Um...

Konstantin Kisin 50:20 Beautiful. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 50:21 Okay. You're welcome. Uh, so y- y- he's saying this is a real video, this is a real thing that happened. There's, there's something that someone wants to see.

Francis Foster 50:31 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:32 The world should know that this can happen. Here's the video.

Francis Foster 50:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:35 Somebody put it up. It doesn't violate any of our laws. Let's keep it up there. And they're saying he should be locked in a cage for that.

Francis Foster 50:42 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 50:43 That's crazy.

Konstantin Kisin 50:44 Well, once you invent... So this isn't the case in this instance particularly, but once you invent the idea of hate speech-

Joe Rogan 50:50 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 50:50 ... then everything else follows because that mea- if, if there's hate speech, that means some people aren't allowed to be saying what they're saying. A- and by the way, I mean, it is true, like, I, I definitely have noticed an increase in, like, antisemitic messages that people send me since Elon took over. I am happy with that. I'm, I'm very comfortable with that because the rest of-

Joe Rogan 51:10 Well, good, because you just mentioned it.

Francis Foster 51:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:12 Now more are coming.

Francis Foster 51:14 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 51:14 Well, I don't give a shit. I just block people that I don't want to hear from, and that works for me. I think that's the way it should be because if you... We've, we've got to open up the conversation. That means that some people are gonna say dumb shit.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 51:25 And I'm, I'm... I would much rather that than some well-meaning bureaucrat deciding what should and shouldn't be allowed to be said in the public square. So if that-

Joe Rogan 51:33 Hear, hear. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 51:33 If that means there's more hate, I don't give a shit. I think it's worth it.

Joe Rogan 51:37 That is the only solution. It's not gonna be a... It's not a simple solution. It's gonna be, yeah, you're gonna open up the door to more hate, but you're also gonna open up the door to free conversations and people are gonna figure out what's what, and that's the only way it really works. You c- it doesn't work by government mandate, especially when you, we've seen, particularly with our government with the Twitter files, how there have been people that worked within the government that contacted Twitter and tried to get factual information taken down and trying to get the accounts suppressed of people that were experts in the field-

Francis Foster 52:08 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:08 ... that had a differing opinion other than what was being promoted.

Francis Foster 52:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:12 That's crazy. You can't have that. Like, that, that can't be a thing because that's not good for the government. It's not good for us. It's not good for anybody to allow that kind of shit. That's the whole... It's un-American. You should be ashamed that you wanna do that. It's unpatriotic. You shouldn't be allowed to do it just because you're in a sneaky secret squirrel position where you can contact Twitter through a, you know, the... some government agent, and then they get... they feel pressured, and then they give in to something that you're doing that's super unethical.

Francis Foster 52:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:40 That's un-American.

Konstantin Kisin 52:41 I love that you said that, Joe, 'cause it's so... it's a phrase that you don't hear as much as I think you used to 20 years ago, just the idea that there's some basic core principles of what America and the broader West is-

Joe Rogan 52:51 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 52:51 ... founded on, and that's f-... that's one of them.

Joe Rogan 52:54 It's one of them. And you have to fight off that urge to control people. You have to recognize that if you're in a position of power, whether you're a cult leader or a president or whatever the fuck you are, there's this desire to control people that gets people to that position in the first place, this f-... this ego that makes them think, "I should be the one that talks for the whole group. I know what's better for all of them." And as soon as you start using that in an unethical way like that, like censoring people, especially censoring factual information from experts, you're un-American. That's un-American.

Francis Foster 53:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:25 It's, it's unpatriotic, and in fact, it's, it's, it... It's one of the grossest things you could do in a place that values free speech. And w- we've seen so tangibly what's come out of this country, term... like, culturally, the music, the comedy, the, the literature, the... all the, the crazy shit, the movies that have come from this experiment in self-government.

Francis Foster 53:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:49 And the only way it works is if you let people work it out. You gotta let people talk, and you're gonna get people that are wrong-

Francis Foster 53:55 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:55 ... and you're gonna get people that are racist. You're gonna get people that are sexist. You're gonna get people that are homophobic. You're gonna get all that, but you're also gonna get people that battle those people. You're gonna get people that have better arguments than those people. You get people that sort of w- w... start posting links and quote, and people start figuring things out for themselves. And that's the only way this works.

Francis Foster 54:14 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:15 It's the only way. You can't let these people that are elected officials decide what you can and can't consume, 'cause I don't know you. I know the you that ran for mayor. I don't know you. You might be a piece of shit. You might be a sociopath. You might be a smiling con artist that tricked a bunch of people because nobody wants to run and everybody who does run sucks. It's like y- you're literally, like, boxing with five-year-olds. Like, "Oh, you're the champ, yay." No one's doing it.

Francis Foster 54:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:41 No one's doing it. Like, no real quality human beings are out there running for office in Los Angeles. They're not running f-... I mean, there was that Rick Caruso guy.

Francis Foster 54:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:50 They didn't give him a chance. He could've... He could've done something. That's a rare thing when you have a very wealthy person who wants to try to save a city. But, of course, he's, like, a Republican, right? So they're like, "Get out of here."

Francis Foster 55:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:00 Or what... Was... Is he running Republican or is he a Democrat? What was he running as?... you can't even win as a Republican in California. Like, they're so-

Konstantin Kisin 55:10 There was a lot ...

Joe Rogan 55:11 ... in doctrine.

Francis Foster 55:11 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 55:11 Like Schwarzenegger?

Joe Rogan 55:12 Schwarzenegger.

Francis Foster 55:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:13 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 55:13 Schwarzenegger was the last one. But t-

Joe Rogan 55:15 But he was also royalty.

Francis Foster 55:16 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 55:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:16 So this is like a tricky thing, 'cause that was Hollywood royalty, he was a movie star. Like, "He would be great if Arnie got in there."

Francis Foster 55:22 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 55:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:22 "He's a sensible Republican, you know. He's, he's one of us. He's a liberal, but he's also, he's running as a Republican, and it's the only way he can win."

Francis Foster 55:29 Yeah. You know, and you've seen that more and more, through, throughout all our societies. Like, you look at what's happening in Scotland, when I messaged you with what was happening-

Joe Rogan 55:39 Yeah.

Francis Foster 55:39 ... with the hate speech laws.

Joe Rogan 55:40 Crazy.

Francis Foster 55:41 Where now, you can, the hate speech has been criminalized in public performances, including plays.

Joe Rogan 55:48 It's so insane.

Francis Foster 55:49 So, the Edinburgh Festival, which is the largest comedy and arts festival in the world, people can now get arrested for public performance.

Joe Rogan 55:57 And they most certainly will if they follow the rule of the law, 'cause Edinburgh, those guys get wild.

Francis Foster 56:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:01 People get wild down there.

Konstantin Kisin 56:02 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 56:03 Yeah. And so they should. And you just go-

Joe Rogan 56:05 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 56:05 Well, it's a comedy festival. (laughs)

Francis Foster 56:06 Yeah, it's a comedy fest.

Joe Rogan 56:07 (laughs)

Francis Foster 56:07 However ... No, there's probably a few people that, actually, if I was in charge, I'd lock 'em up.

Konstantin Kisin 56:13 I mean, at this point, it's hard to hear this.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Lock 'em up. (laughs)

Francis Foster 56:14 (Laughs) Get rid of them.

Konstantin Kisin 56:14 But you know, Francis and I, we've been warning about this for ages. And most, most people pretend it's not happening, they ignore it. And it's like, first, uh, a couple of years ago, a guy called Jerry Sadowitz, who's s- super funny.

Francis Foster 56:26 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 56:26 Super offensive comic, like none of his stuff is online 'cause it's too offensive. But you go and see him, he's absolutely incredible. So they pulled his show from the Edinburgh Festival. And we were like, "This is a problem." It's like, "No, no, there's no problem." Now, you literally have the police potentially arresting comedians. Maybe this is when they start waking up.

Francis Foster 56:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:44 God.

Francis Foster 56:44 And, and this same government wanted to criminalize hate speech in your home.

Konstantin Kisin 56:50 In your home. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:51 It's, it really is the ... The real problem is the people that want that job shouldn't have that job.

Francis Foster 56:57 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 56:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:58 No quality p- ex- except for there's a r- rare few. Like, I think R- RFK is a great person.

Francis Foster 57:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:03 I, I would, I would vote for him.

Francis Foster 57:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:04 I think Tulsi Gabbard is a great person.

Francis Foster 57:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:07 I v- I would vote for her. There's, there's people that I think are running for office, and they're legitimately trying to do well for the w- for the world. They're trying to make a better place. They're trying ... They, they think they have ideas that would sort out some of the problems that we have, and they're one of us. That's real. But then there's these fucking people, the rest of 'em, they're just these partisan fucking robots, and they just get connected to the system, and they know which wheels to grease, and they all get connected together, and they support each other, and it's just, ugh.

Konstantin Kisin 57:36 And even with good, well-intentioned people, I think, as we were talking about free speech, there are some certain principles that have gotta be there. Because good intentions can be misused.

Francis Foster 57:45 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 57:46 Like, you're like, "Oh, I just wanna do good, I just wanna protect people from harm." That's why we need to restrict speech online. That's their argument. Like, I, I did, uh-

Joe Rogan 57:54 It's a stupid argument that they should have to, they should have to debate someone about that.

Konstantin Kisin 57:58 Yeah.

Francis Foster 57:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:59 You want 'em to just pass something like that? You should have to stand p- That is a very important thing you're trying to pass. You should have to stand publicly and defend that against a champion of free speech.

Konstantin Kisin 58:10 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 58:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:10 Like a really brilliant ch- Like if, if Hitchens was alive.

Konstantin Kisin 58:13 Right.

Francis Foster 58:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 You know? Could you imagine what that would've looked like? Christopher Hitchens versus whoever the fuck thinks they can lock people up for saying cunt.

Konstantin Kisin 58:21 Mm.

Joe Rogan 58:22 You know, whatever, whatever the words that you're gonna choose that are hate speech now.

Konstantin Kisin 58:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:25 And they're gonna keep moving, they'll run out of words. They're gonna push new words, they're gonna push new descriptions that are problematic.

Konstantin Kisin 58:31 I mean, to be fair, cunt is not a, a hate speech in Australia.

Joe Rogan 58:34 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 58:34 It's a greeting.

Francis Foster 58:35 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 58:35 "Hey, how you doing, you cunt?"

Joe Rogan 58:35 And in Scotland as well.

Konstantin Kisin 58:36 (laughs)

Francis Foster 58:36 In Australia, in Scotland too. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:38 "Yeah, he's a good cunt."

Francis Foster 58:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:40 (laughs) Yeah, they ...

Konstantin Kisin 58:41 "It's yo eyeball back."

Joe Rogan 58:42 Is- isn't it funny that, that it's, that is a weird thing that, that word became cute over there.

Francis Foster 58:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:47 And over here, it's just so rough.

Konstantin Kisin 58:49 Oh, yeah. Yes, it's very rough.

Francis Foster 58:49 Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so interesting because like I said, in, in Scotland, it's a, it's a term of affection.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 58:55 Like, I was in Glasgow, and th- they, we were queuing at the bar, and there was this English guy, you know, who was very, "Oh, hello," I mean, you know, one of them. And then, he was in this rough, like, place in Glas- bar in Glasgow, people were cut in front of him. And then one bloke there, who was this rough house Glaswegian looked at the barman, went, "Hey, barman, get this poor cunt a drink."

Joe Rogan 59:14 Ah.

Francis Foster 59:15 And it was the, the love in his eyes.

Joe Rogan 59:16 Yeah.

Francis Foster 59:16 It was just pure affection. You know, like, "This guy's been fucked over, get him a drink."

Joe Rogan 59:21 Yeah. If you say that in Boston, they'll beat the fuck out of you.

Francis Foster 59:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:25 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 59:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:26 If (laughs) for some reason, it didn't make it over there.

Francis Foster 59:28 Yeah. Which is interesting, because it's obviously so heavily influenced. But, you know, to, to the point that we were talking about, you know, you see even something like diversity. You, the, the Scottish First Minister, there was a very famous speech where he came out, and he listed people who, who were working in certain places, I can't remember, in certain parts of government. And he just went, "White, white, white."

Joe Rogan 59:51 Yeah, I saw that.

Francis Foster 59:52 White. And it's like, mate, it's Scotland. It's 96% white. What do you expect?

Joe Rogan 59:57 (laughs)

Francis Foster 59:57 Can, can ...

Joe Rogan 59:58 But everybody's so scared of being called racist, they're like-

Francis Foster 1:00:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 "Yeah, you're right. Ooh."

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:02 And do you know w- what happened is the day they pa- the week they passed that bill, there were more reports of hate speech on that speech that he gave than there had been for years.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Ah.

Francis Foster 1:00:14 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 That's hilarious. Now, are they hypocrites? Do they lock 'em up?

Francis Foster 1:00:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 That would be maybe the solution. Lock 'em up, then overturn the laws.

Francis Foster 1:00:20 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:21 Well, they didn't lock him up. The BBC did a very nice interview where they agreed that anyone who criticized him must be far right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Ah. That's sweet. That's a good move.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:29 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:00:30 I love it.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:30 If you're playing checkers.

Francis Foster 1:00:31 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 If the world is checkers to you, and y- you don't think that it's so fucking transparent.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:36 It's such a basic principle of our civilization that people should be free to speak their mind. And, and it- and it's important at every level. Like, our armies fight better because they're less hierarchical, so the soldier on the ground can pass information up the chain of command-

Francis Foster 1:00:49 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:49 ... without being afraid. Right?

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:50 It matters in every single aspect of what we do. It's the reason for our scientific progress. It's the reason for our technological progress. It's the reason, as you say, for the cultural creativity that we have here-

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:01:02 ... that they don't have in other places. It's the bedrock of our civilization. And you've got well-intentioned, quote, unquote, "people" running around trying to tear it down. I, I had this experience when I, uh, last ... No, not the last one, the penultimate time I did Question Time, which is like a big discussion show in the UK on TV. And they ... It's, uh, there's like five people from different perspectives, different angles.And before they start, they do one question that they don't broadcast. It's like a warmup, right? And the question at the time was Donald Trump had just been unbanned from Facebook and they were like, "Well, should that have happened?" And I, you know, made the controversial point that the former president of the most powerful country in the world should be allowed to say something in public. Uh, didn't go down well. And then-

Francis Foster 1:01:45 Zoo-zoo-zoo-zoo. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:01:47 (laughs)

Francis Foster 1:01:47 You're gonna let him talk?

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:01:49 Yeah. And then they went to the left-wing pol- politician, uh, the Labour Party politician on the panel and she went, without missing a beat, she went, "We must have the safest internet in the world."

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:01 And I was like, "What? Safer than North Korea?"

Francis Foster 1:02:03 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:04 They've completely lost their understanding-

Francis Foster 1:02:07 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:07 ... that there is a trade-off between freedom and safety.

Francis Foster 1:02:09 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:09 And when you go for more freedom, yes, it means there's less safety from people's hurty words or whatever. But you get more freedom and that's actually worth it. It's actually important.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 And it's always these people that want to assume those positions of power that have this sort of fucking limited view of human psychology and the way we accumulate and process information, that is has to be... We have to be able to talk about stuff. If you can't just talk about stuff, you get one side of the story and that side of the story's gonna favor whoever the fuck is in control of what you get to talk about, period. It's always how it's been.

Francis Foster 1:02:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 And to think that it's gonna be different now because we're better and we're more civilized, well we can trust our leaders now, like no.

Francis Foster 1:02:50 (laughs) No. No.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 It's a human thing.

Francis Foster 1:02:52 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 It's the... It's the reason why we're... There's term limits, so you can only get corrupted so much-

Francis Foster 1:02:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 ... over eight years and hopefully someone could like say, "This guy sucks. Let's try a whole new crew of people, see how we run this thing."

Francis Foster 1:03:04 You see, that's why I found COVID so fascinating because that was when the mask slipped. And you saw some leaders and you were like, okay, you're trying to do your best. And then you saw the petty little authoritarians come out.

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Yes, yes.

Francis Foster 1:03:17 And you really saw them.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:03:19 And then what was interesting about it as well was that there was some things that were so funny because they were so ridiculous. Do you remember in New Zealand when a guy got arrested for transporting KFC across county lines?

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 (laughs)

Francis Foster 1:03:34 He-

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Biological terrorism.

Francis Foster 1:03:35 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 What did they get him for? What'd they get him for?

Francis Foster 1:03:38 Because he wasn't i- i-... Because during the, the COVID regulations you couldn't move beyond a certain-

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 Oh, you had a barrier.

Francis Foster 1:03:45 Yeah, a certain... There was a barrier. And this guy was making money because he was going to KFC, buying it and then basically... And then coming back and being like KFC but for... Drug dealers, but for KFC. And then he was stopped, searched by the police and arrested, and then they listed all of these things in his boot in like two, two tubs of coleslaw, one Coke bottle. And you go, this is...

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Tens of thousands of dollars.

Francis Foster 1:04:13 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:15 Men were charged with breaching the country's t- tough COVID-19 rules.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 A boot full of KFC chicken and tens of thousands of do-... I think it's the money they're worried about. I think the KFC might have been the-

Francis Foster 1:04:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 The KFC is just kind of a fun detention.

Francis Foster 1:04:25 Oh, right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:26 Well, no look, it says they were charged for breaching the country's COVID rules, so it's nothing to do with money.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 Right, right. But they did have tens of thousands of dollars, which means they were selling KFC.

Francis Foster 1:04:34 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 That's what they're doing. These dudes had an illegal KFC business. Tough to get KFC during lockdown.

Francis Foster 1:04:41 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 This guy's like, "I'm gonna go out there. I don't have a GPS in my truck. Let's go."

Francis Foster 1:04:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 He was a KFC smuggler, this motherfucker.

Francis Foster 1:04:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Look at his, his haul. See? He was smuggling KFC.

Francis Foster 1:04:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 There's no way he's eating all that chicken by himself.

Francis Foster 1:04:53 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 That's a lot of chicken.

Francis Foster 1:04:54 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 By the way, that might be my favorite fast food.

Francis Foster 1:04:57 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:58 Yeah. Mine too. I like KFC.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 Oh, hey, if you're really not concerned about your health at all-

Francis Foster 1:05:01 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 ... if you just want good flavor-

Francis Foster 1:05:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 ... the KFC... Especially the, um... They have like a crunchy, right? Isn't there a KF... Doesn't it have a, a crunchy crust sometimes too?

Francis Foster 1:05:10 Yeah. Yeah, they-

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 You know what I mean?

Francis Foster 1:05:12 Yeah. They got... I'm just reading what happened. They got caught traveling on a gravel road on the outskirts of the city, did a U-turn when they saw a police car.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 (laughs)

Francis Foster 1:05:20 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:20 (laughs) That's so smart.

Francis Foster 1:05:21 And then they found they had $100,000 in cash on them.

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 Oh, well that's a lot of money, guys. What are you doing? Selling KFC.

Francis Foster 1:05:26 They're just like, "Hey."

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 That's what they do. Look, man, if you're fucking really locked down, you got some cash, bro, I'll give you $1,000 to go get me a bucket of chicken.

Francis Foster 1:05:34 Uh.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 Like, really? Yeah, 1,000.

Francis Foster 1:05:35 Here's also 500... It says it's-

1:05:37 I mean, I'd go and get it, but I can't drive.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 It's unclear whether the men intended to sell the food, I told you, or if they hoped to use it as a distraction-

Francis Foster 1:05:44 (laughs)

1:05:44 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 ... if they were pulled over. "Hey, you want some KFC? How about you let me off?"

Francis Foster 1:05:48 (laughs)

1:05:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 "Let me check my fucking money."

Francis Foster 1:05:51 Yeah. And that wa- that was the, the whole thing with COVID. And for me and I think for probably Constantin and you as well, that was a real wake-up moment for me where I was actually going, okay, how much of this is about keeping people safe? Which I can understand. And by the way, I can understand an overreaction as well when the virus was about to hit. I remember saying to Constantin, "We're gonna bank episodes, we're gonna bank episodes now. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank, bank, bank."

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:15 And I was like, "Oh-

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 (laughs)

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:16 ... come on, mate, it's just the flu. It's... Nothing's gonna happen." This was like in January 2020.

Francis Foster 1:06:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:22 And he was like, "No, no, you gotta take this shit seriously."

Francis Foster 1:06:24 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:25 Uh, and he was right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:06:27 But, and so the- there's that natural reaction where you go, look, this is serious, we've gotta, you know, we've gotta protect people, they're vulnerable people. And then there's other stuff where you're going, this makes no sense.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Yeah, but it's people wanting to do something. They had to show that they had somewhat sort of a measure of a plan.

Francis Foster 1:06:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 In California, the big one was closing the outside dining. My, my... I've said this before, uh, so I apologize if people have heard it, but my friend, uh, his, uh, brother worked on the whole COVID force in Los Angeles and they were closing outside dining because there was a spike in cases. And he goes, "But if there's no evidence that outside dining and you're gonna kill these businesses." She goes, "It's about the optics." So about the optics to make a decision that kills businesses. Like these people were barely hanging on. They were only able to serve people outside, you know? I mean, who knows how many bartenders and waitresses were just fucked.

Francis Foster 1:07:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Restaurant owners, fucked. Everybody got fucked. And it was about the optics. That's just dumb people. That's just... That person should not have that position of power. There's no fucking way. That shou- that person to make that kind of a decision should have to debate a champion of the restaurant industry, should have to debate a champion of health, should have to debate a champion who understands like, uh-... w- how, how is this stuff being transmitted? Is it not being transmitted at all outside? Is that real true? H- what, what is the safety threshold of outside dining?

Francis Foster 1:07:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 And have someone fucking talk about ... You can't just wave a magic wand and decide that everybody has to go home. That's crazy. And so many people lost decades of their lives, decades of their lives' work.

Francis Foster 1:08:02 And, and it goes back to the importance of debate, the importance of free speech.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Yes.

Francis Foster 1:08:07 One of the most dreadful and terrible ideas that was allowed to propagate ... And I saw smart people reiterating, regurgitating constantly is words are violence. Well, if words are violence, then logically it makes sense to shut all of this down, because if you challenge me on something I say, on something I say, and you go, "Actually, Francis, you're talking crap," and I'm like, "Well, that's violent," then I need to be protected 'cause we need to be protected from physical violence.

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:08:36 And we've just allowed this idea to propagate, so-

Konstantin Kisin 1:08:39 It's a crazy idea.

Francis Foster 1:08:40 ... so, but so the time ... So none of our ... Nobody's ideas get challenged. We feel under threat if people challenge us. It's ridiculous, and that we've come to this point where you just see this stasis because terrible ideas are allowed to flourish without people going, "Mm, no, you can't become a woman."

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 And then even the people that are inside these groups that disagree with it, they keep their mouth shut 'cause they don't wanna be ostracized. They don't wanna be cast out of the kingdom. Nobody's able to, like, really fully express objective opinions about a variety of subjects. You have to sort of ... You have to adopt a, a predetermined list of things that you agree with.

Francis Foster 1:09:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 If you tell me how you feel about abortion, I could almost entirely tell you how you feel about guns.

Francis Foster 1:09:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 Most of the time, like eight outta 10. That's weird.

Francis Foster 1:09:25 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:26 It's, it's all weird. And, and the thing is ... Well, to your point, Francis, I feel like we've got to a point where it's, it's become quite hard to criticize people's ideas without people thinking that you're criticizing the person. I mean, it happened with, uh, with your interview with Tucker. Like Tucker said some things that people didn't agree with, and I think rightly, and they