Joe Rogan Experience #2140 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Hello, my British friends. What the fuck's happening?

   4. FFFrancis Foster0:14

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you guys.

   6. FFFrancis Foster0:15

      Good to be back, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      It's, uh... The world just... I always hope that next time we see each other, things have calmed down. (laughs)

   8. FFFrancis Foster0:24

      (laughs)

   9. NANarrator0:24

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:24

       Have a happy podcast-

   11. FFFrancis Foster0:25

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       ... where we're not freaking out and filled with existential crisis and doom.

   13. FFFrancis Foster0:30

       It's kinda weird, right? Like, life is good, but the world's on fire.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Uh-huh. I think that's one of the reasons why life is good. It's a fucked up thought, but I really believe that we only appreciate true, like, uh, comradery and community and friendship w- if there's, like, a real feeling of possible doom, like, hovering in the air. Then the times where you can just be together, have a drink with friends and hug each other, th- that's when it really feels good. Like, when, when, when things are too easy, I think people find more problems and get filled with more anxiety. But when there's real fear, then you could l- look at your friends like, "Bro, I love you, man." (laughs)

   15. FFFrancis Foster1:13

       (laughs)

   16. NANarrator1:13

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       Hugging each other. 'Cause, like, we could die tonight. It could be all over.

   18. FFFrancis Foster1:16

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Yeah.

   20. FFFrancis Foster1:17

       No one's talking about the trans debate in Afghanistan, you know what I mean?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

   22. FFFrancis Foster1:22

       They've solved that. (laughs)

   23. NANarrator1:23

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Yeah, they're really not interested-

   25. FFFrancis Foster1:25

       (laughs)

   26. NANarrator1:26

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       ... in drag queen story hour.

   28. FFFrancis Foster1:28

       (laughs)

   29. NANarrator1:28

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       They'll just fucking shoot you and throw you in a burn pit.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      you're supposed to do.

   2. FFFrancis Foster15:00

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      And resistance to writing is particularly aggressive for whatever reason. And Pressfield talks about it. Like, he... And he essentially gives you tools and he, he says that you're gonna be a professional, and you're gonna think of yourself as a professional. And as a professional, we go to work. And when we go to work, we sit in front of the computer, we summon the muse.

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin15:21

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      And he believes in the muse. He doesn't believe in it just as like, "Just pretend it's a muse and that way you could be creative." He's like, "No, if you treat it like it's real, it is real." Like, the muse is a real thing. If you just show up every day at a certain time and put in the time, ideas will come to you.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin15:39

      Mm-hmm.

   7. FFFrancis Foster15:39

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      They're not gonna come every day. It's not gonna be like picking strawberries in God's open field. No, it's gonna be this weird thing. But if you do it enough, i- if you treat it like it is a muse, it will perform as a muse does. And if you do the work, you, you will reap these rewards. And it gives you, like, this sort of, like, very simple, well outlined sort of guide to how to do that.

   9. KKKonstantin Kisin16:04

      That's really interesting. It resonates a lot with me because when I'm, uh, I write a lot of Substack articles now, and that works really well. And all I do is I sit down, I know I've got two hours, and within five minutes, it starts flowing.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:17

       Yeah.

   11. KKKonstantin Kisin16:18

       And-

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       The first five minutes are like... (imitates music playing)

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin16:20

       Yeah. It really helps if I came into it with an existing idea already, and then I can just go (whooshes) and flesh it out.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       Yeah.

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin16:27

       You know? That resonates a lot.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Ari Shapiro used to have this, uh, quote on his, uh, laptop. I think it's Hemingway, and it said, "The first draft of everything is shit."

   17. FFFrancis Foster16:39

       (laughs)

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin16:40

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       (laughs) I think it's Hemingway. Is that a Hemingway quote? We'll see, find out.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin16:45

       Uh, even if it isn't, that's still true.

   21. FFFrancis Foster16:46

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:46

       But Ari, Ari had that as a sticker, like, on his scr- like, right below his screen, r- where the space between the screen and the keyboard.

   23. FFFrancis Foster16:53

       Yeah. Yeah. Do you know one thing that I find for creativity as well and the way of getting good ideas is it's so important-

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:59

       Yeah, it's Hemingway.

   25. FFFrancis Foster17:00

       ... the first... Yeah.

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin17:00

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:01

       (laughs)

   28. FFFrancis Foster17:01

       (laughs) ... is it's so important to play. It's so important to play. So, if you just... I find it really helpful to go for a walk, maybe grab a coffee, don't listen to music, don't listen to anything, and just walk.

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       Mm-hmm.

   30. FFFrancis Foster17:15

       And things that have happened in your day, you'll just notice certain things. Like, a couple of days ago, uh, I was in the gym with, uh, g- uh, Gold's Gym, and RFK Jr. came in with like five dudes in j- jeans, a polo shirt, and came in. And then he was on the be- on the bench, I was on the bench, and he obliterated me, and then just left again. And I was like, "That's so funny." There's something there that a guy who's in his mid-70s comes in, dominates me, leaves. (laughs)
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   And so you take…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin30:00

      And so you take that away, you're gonna be left with a bunch of fuckers on pods sipping milkshakes. That's, that's-

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      Yep.

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin30:06

      ... that's what you... A best case scenario.

   5. FFFrancis Foster30:07

      Mm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      I think it's gonna happen before we even realize it's happened. I think it's gonna happen very quickly.... 'cause I think once those things get implemented, we're gonna see just a giant steep drop off of childbirth and of regular relationships. And what happens to women? What do they do? 'Cause they don't have that same desire. They wanna actually emotionally connect with someone.

   7. FFFrancis Foster30:26

      Mm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      You know, what, is it... Was it... I don't know if it's a true quote, but I remember reading it and thinking it was, and I'm, I'm not sure if it is now. George Harrison, or someone that attributed to George Harrison, said, "All I need from a woman is to be attracted to her. Everything else I can get from a man." There's people that think that way.

   9. FFFrancis Foster30:42

      Mm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       Right? So if you're a, if you're a guy and you think that way, and then all of a sudden you have your robot fuck doll and you're just hanging with your buddies... But women don't think that way. Women wanna be like emotionally ca- uh, generally wanna be.

   11. FFFrancis Foster30:55

       Mm. Hmm. Mm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:56

       I mean, I like to generalize.

   13. FFFrancis Foster30:57

       (laughs)

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin30:57

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       It's good. It's fun. (laughs)

   16. FFFrancis Foster31:00

       (laughs)

   17. KKKonstantin Kisin31:00

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:00

       But, but generally- (laughs)

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin31:01

       It's like walking the edge of a cliff nowadays.

   20. FFFrancis Foster31:03

       Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin31:03

       Used to be you could just do that, right?

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:05

       Yeah. Well, you just gotta be, uh, just honest about what you're doing. I'm ge- certainly generalizing. But I think there's gonna be a whole lot less women that want a robot fuck boy.

   23. FFFrancis Foster31:13

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:13

       They're not gonna want a robot fuck boy. They're not gonna respect that guy. It's not a real person with real struggles that can really provide. That's just, like, some robot dick that plows them when they come home from the club. Which maybe that's great, maybe that's fine, but I have a feeling it won't be.

   25. FFFrancis Foster31:26

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:26

       I have a feeling that the, the ingrained human reward systems in us that were designed to ensure that we replicate, those are all gonna get fucked up by robot fuck dolls.

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin31:39

       Man, the-

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:39

       They're gonna get wrecked.

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin31:40

       The men and women are the basic building block of human society.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Like, there was a…

   1. FFFrancis Foster45:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      Like, there was a show called Space: 1999, remember I used to watch when I was a kid? I was like, "Wow, 1999, they're in space."

   3. FFFrancis Foster45:05

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:05

      Like, everything was like super futuristic, like crazy, like Star Wars-like in 1999. Like, that's what they thought.

   5. KKKonstantin Kisin45:13

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      (laughs) Nobody figured... Everybody thought flying cars.

   7. FFFrancis Foster45:17

      Right.

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin45:17

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:17

      Everybody thought flying cars.

   10. FFFrancis Foster45:18

       Right.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:18

       No flying cars, you know?

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin45:19

       Are they coming?

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:20

       I- I mean, there's- there's some manufacturers that have made one. One guy has made one. I think it's a Chinese company, and it's a, uh, like a drone essentially. It's like you have a- a single seat in the center of it, and you close it like a helicopter, and you have drone, uh, w- you know, like the same kind of propellers that drones have.

   14. FFFrancis Foster45:38

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:38

       And you (drone sound) . So you just operate it like a drone. Um, but that's... There's a couple other ones, but there's nothing that's like commercially viable where they're gonna be able to sell as many of these as they sell Teslas.

   16. FFFrancis Foster45:49

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       You know, it's not, it's not there yet, but it's not- probably not gonna get there. When the- when the AI hits, everything stops. When- when it goes live, when it becomes sentient, well, it's literal Skynet. You're gonna have a- a- an organic thing that's made out of electronics. It's gonna be a life form, and we- we're gonna give birth to this stupid fucking thing. (laughs)

   18. FFFrancis Foster46:10

       (laughs)

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin46:10

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       And I think everything's gonna be doomed. I think we're gonna have a government that's run by AI because it's gonna be the most efficient, and then who controls the AI? Oh, the most equitable, ethical people. Like it's gonna... It's- it could be real weird. It could be real weird because it's gonna be so much smarter than all the human beings combined. And you're gonna be able to use it to manipulate people, and if people are still allowed to vote, then you could use AI to sort of just manipulate them perfectly into leaning... They'll figure out, like, what is the issue that keeps you from voting for Biden over Trump? What is the issue that keeps you from voting independent for RFK Jr.? Let's see what it is, and let's monkey with the data, and let's get you information that stimulates that part of your brain just enough for all those fence-sitters go to the other side.

   21. FFFrancis Foster46:59

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:59

       And then who knows what's going on? Who knows who's running anything? If AI video is so goddamn good, they could take a photo of you and have you say anything. So who knows what Putin's saying and who knows what Zelenskyy's saying and who- who knows what anybody's saying anywhere in five years?

   23. FFFrancis Foster47:18

       That-

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:18

       Who knows?

   25. FFFrancis Foster47:18

       ... that is absolutely terrifying.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:21

       That's real.

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin47:22

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:22

       It's like, these are- these are undeniable truths that I think that we have to come to grips with before this shit hits. And when I say hits, obviously I'm a Luddite. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm extrapolating. I'm looking at where things are going, and I'm going, "This is gonna happen so fast, and it's gonna be so weird." It's not- it's not gonna just stop at ChatGPT-5. It's not gonna just stop at these robots that'll clean your kitchen. It's not gonna stop it though. It's gonna keep going, and it's gonna go quick, real quick, big leaps. Big re- big leaps, real quick, where the world is alien.

   29. FFFrancis Foster47:58

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:58

       Real quick.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:09:54

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      called racist, they're like-

   2. FFFrancis Foster1:00:01

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      "Yeah, you're right. Ooh."

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:02

      And do you know w- what happened is the day they pa- the week they passed that bill, there were more reports of hate speech on that speech that he gave than there had been for years.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:13

      Ah.

   6. FFFrancis Foster1:00:14

      (laughs)

   7. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:14

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      That's hilarious. Now, are they hypocrites? Do they lock 'em up?

   9. FFFrancis Foster1:00:18

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

       That would be maybe the solution. Lock 'em up, then overturn the laws.

   11. FFFrancis Foster1:00:20

       Yeah.

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:21

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:21

       Yeah.

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:21

       Well, they didn't lock him up. The BBC did a very nice interview where they agreed that anyone who criticized him must be far right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

       Ah. That's sweet. That's a good move.

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:29

       Yeah.

   17. FFFrancis Foster1:00:30

       I love it.

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:30

       If you're playing checkers.

   19. FFFrancis Foster1:00:31

       (laughs)

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:31

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       Yeah.

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:32

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       If the world is checkers to you, and y- you don't think that it's so fucking transparent.

   24. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:36

       It's such a basic principle of our civilization that people should be free to speak their mind. And, and it- and it's important at every level. Like, our armies fight better because they're less hierarchical, so the soldier on the ground can pass information up the chain of command-

   25. FFFrancis Foster1:00:49

       Mm-hmm.

   26. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:49

       ... without being afraid. Right?

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       Mm-hmm.

   28. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:50

       It matters in every single aspect of what we do. It's the reason for our scientific progress. It's the reason for our technological progress. It's the reason, as you say, for the cultural creativity that we have here-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

       Mm-hmm.

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:02

       ... that they don't have in other places. It's the bedrock of our civilization. And you've got well-intentioned, quote, unquote, "people" running around trying to tear it down. I, I had this experience when I, uh, last ... No, not the last one, the penultimate time I did Question Time, which is like a big discussion show in the UK on TV. And they ... It's, uh, there's like five people from different perspectives, different angles.And before they start, they do one question that they don't broadcast. It's like a warmup, right? And the question at the time was Donald Trump had just been unbanned from Facebook and they were like, "Well, should that have happened?" And I, you know, made the controversial point that the former president of the most powerful country in the world should be allowed to say something in public. Uh, didn't go down well. And then-

Episode duration: 3:03:39