EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,042 words- 0:00 – 1:49
Rogan reconnects with Sibrel and sets the stakes of the moon-landing dispute
- NANarrator
(drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)
- JRJoe Rogan
All right, folks. Drop in. (laughs) Good to see you, man.
- BSBart Sibrel
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
We first met, what was it? Like, at least 20 years ago, right?
- BSBart Sibrel
22 years ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it 22?
- BSBart Sibrel
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. So, uh, I had seen your movie, and I don't even remember how I got in touch with you 'cause this is before my podcast. I don't even re-
- BSBart Sibrel
You emailed me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. So, did I email you off your website? Is that what it was?
- BSBart Sibrel
I think so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- BSBart Sibrel
And then you said, "If you're ever in LA, let's meet." And I happened to be in LA when you sent me the email.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah, synchronicity.
- BSBart Sibrel
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. So, let's take everybody on this journey with you. So, you were a young man. You were fascinated by NASA. You were a NASA fan. You had NASA photos on the wall of your room. What happened? What happened to you that you, you, you're... Essentially, you're known worldwide as the leading proponent of the moon hoax theory. You're the guy who's researched it the most. You're the guy w- who can auto-recall the most information, and you're the guy that the people that believe the moon landing was real hate the most.
- BSBart Sibrel
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) So, how'd this all happen?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, let me start by saying a comment about when you said "theory." You know, it's not a theory. They did fake the moon landing. That's a fact, whether people realize it or not.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay, but we weren't there, so let's just go on what we know in terms of facts, and I'm gonna call it a theory.
- BSBart Sibrel
Okay, you're so qualified.
- 1:49 – 7:23
Why people defend the moon landing: patriotism, trust, and 1960s context
- JRJoe Rogan
Just for fun. I'm just trying to... Well, I'm gonna have to steel-man some of the arguments against you, you know, obviously. Ha- I mean, this is a fascinating but yet very challenging subject. I think today, more people are aware of the insanely widespread deception that the government was involved in during the same time as the moon landing. I think this is important. And I know a lot of people, um, who, uh, get very angry when you question the moon landing. Um, they, they use terms like patriotism. They'll... And ter- Uh, national pride, like, "We did this incredible thing, the scientists that we have." I understand what they're saying. I understand where they're coming from entirely. But we have to look at things realistically if we're ever gonna get an accurate picture of how the world works, and I think if we look at the time that we're talking about, the Nixon administration. We talk about the Gulf of Tonkin incident where they got us into Vietnam, where there, it was a bullshit false flag that wound up killing how many people? Was it, like, a million people dead because of that?
- BSBart Sibrel
Three million people, including 58,220 Americans.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay, there's that. There's Operation Northwoods during the same time period. Operation Northwoods was, uh, a, a plan that was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff where they were going to initiate false flags to try to get us into a war with Cuba. They were gonna blow up a, a drone jetliner and blame it on Cuba. They were gonna arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. So, there's, there's the Bay of Pigs. There's all these things. There's the Kennedy assassination itself, which they still won't release the files. There's the moon landing, and the moon landing... And then there's Nixon, getting Nixon removed from the White House, which I didn't know was a, a giant government operation, too. Tucker Carlson laid that all out, and I was like, "What?" And then I read a, uh, a bunch about it. It... What he's saying is totally true. This one's the one that people hold onto the most because it's a source of national pride, and it is also... Like, the accomplishments of NASA, the accomplishments of the scientific community, accomplishments of these people that are able to make things like the stealth bomber and all the wild shit that we know that is absolutely real. The space shuttle, Space X, all of the amazing engineers and scientists. Y- It seems to a lot of people that by calling the moon landing fake, you're discounting that work. You're discounting that amazing accomplishment from humans. What I want people to do (sniffs) is to say, "What did they tell the truth about?" If you're... If this is the one thing that you're willing to hang your hat on, 'cause I know they lied about everything. They lied about everything. They, they lied about MKUltra. They were dosing up johns in brothels with acid and monitoring them. They, they dosed up Charles Manson. They probably trained him how to be a cult leader in prison. The whole MKUltra thing is 100% legit, verified. There's plenty of documents on it. Um, they, they experimented on people with acid. (laughs) They did mind control experiments on people. What, what did they tell the truth about? What did they 100... They said, "You know what? I know we're liars, and we get people killed, and we're, you know, funneling money here and there, but what... We can't lie about the moon landing, guys." And everybody agreed, and everybody agreed. This one, this one we're gonna be... This is just... What it is is what it is, and we're gonna give the scientific community access to all the data so everybody knows it's verified. We're gonna have third-party people test everything to make sure it's verified.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, you brought up a bunch of good points. Um, my opinion is really the opinion of the experts. For example, Robert Kennedy Jr. is 100% certain... He has more access to the JFK files than Oliver Stone does. He's 100% certain that his uncle, President Kennedy, was killed by the CIA. Then, as you mentioned, the Gulf of Tonkin. Robert McNamara, before he died, got it off his chest, said that the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the Pearl Harbor incident that got America behind the Vietnam War...... never happened. He and the CIA completely fabricated it. Congress passed a law, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, that led to the death of three million people and 58,220 American soldiers without cost. So, if the corrupt federal government is willing to kill their own duly elected president, if they're willing to needlessly kill 58,220 of their own soldiers, I don't think they have a problem faking an image of the moon on television. The problem is, it's a positive lie. You see, whoever killed JFK, you're just changing who did it and why. He's still dead and it's still a tragedy. Or 9/11, you can change who did it and why, but all those people are still dead. This is a positive lie, and people don't wanna give up that candy. And I come along and say, "Wake up and smell the manure." Some people are like, "Well, I know America has gotten bad, but at least we went to the moon." And people need to realize-
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- BSBart Sibrel
... the sheer arrogance of the federal government to pull off the moon landing fraud when there's virtually no eyewitnesses, except three government employees and a picture we have to trust is on the moon from the federal government.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 7:23 – 9:07
Sibrel’s origin story: NASA fan to skeptic after Bill Kaysing’s claims
- BSBart Sibrel
So it was actually very easy to fake. And in answer to your first question, I was more than a supporter, I was ga-ga idolizing the moon landings with my father in the Air Force, and giving me a- a packet of pictures of Apollo 11. And as I moved every two years from house to house, they were a prominent place of glory on every bedroom wall from-
- JRJoe Rogan
So what changed?
- BSBart Sibrel
... city to city.
- JRJoe Rogan
What changed?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, w- what changed is having an open mind.
- JRJoe Rogan
And when... But was there a moment?
- BSBart Sibrel
Yeah. There... Well, the first moment was, I'm... (laughs) So from the age of... I was asleep in bed when it happened. But at f- age four, I got those pictures, saw them. I mean, even if I saw them once a day, that's 3,650 times (laughs) over the next 10 years. Probably saw them three times a day, so I see these pictures over 10,000 times, believing they're on the moon and being... thinking it's the greatest thing. And then, I'm 14 years old and I see Bill Kaysing, a former Rocketdyne employee who worked for NASA for six years on the Apollo program, with high security clearance only second to von Braun, who says, "Look, I edited a memo from von Braun to the Pentagon warning them they are not going to make the goal. There's only a 1 in 10,000 chance they can go to the moon on the first attempt." And they're killing-
- JRJoe Rogan
And what year was this?
- BSBart Sibrel
That was back in 1966, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so three years later, they went to the moon. I- is it possible that they were able to overcome whatever challenges that get it... got him to 10,000 to one?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, no, because, I mean, the- there... So we're gonna go over many proofs.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Yeah, this is important, but, I'm... I mean, I- I need the... every step of the way.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, here's how you can prove that's not the case.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- 9:07 – 17:51
“We can’t do it now” argument and the ‘too many people’ objection
- BSBart Sibrel
Okay? Just through... So the number one proof that we have is simply deductive reasoning, because today, with 54-year better rocket designs and computer designs, the farthest that NASA can send a rocket with an astronaut into space is 1/1000 the distance to the moon. That's why they're sending mannequins to orbit the moon that can't even land, because they would die from the radiation. So, what they're really claiming is, back in 1969, ahead of schedule on the first attempt, when all of NASA's computers had one millionth the computing power of a cellphone, they sent astronauts 1,000 times farther into space than they can send today with 54-year better technology. So what they're really claiming is, they had 1,000 times better technology in 1969 than they do today.
- JRJoe Rogan
Not necessarily.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well... But- but that is, because you can't have better technology in the past and in the future. That's impossible.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but- but- but they haven't done a moon landing program today. So if they started a moon landing prodam- program today, the technology is vastly superior, right? The- f- the- the computing power of your- your phone.
- BSBart Sibrel
So it would take... It would take less time... It would take less time to return to the moon.
- JRJoe Rogan
If they did.
- BSBart Sibrel
But it's taking more time, just not less time.
- JRJoe Rogan
But they're not do... Right, but they're not doing it, right? Like during the Apollo-
- BSBart Sibrel
Because they can't do it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay, that's what you're saying.
- BSBart Sibrel
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I'm- I'm with you, but- but the Apollo program doesn't exist today. The Apollo program was a massive program to try to beat Russia to get the first person on the moon. And it was a concerted effort by how many scientists? How many people were involved? How many employees? How many, like overall? I mean, very compartmentalized, right? But how many p- people overall were involved in the Apollo moon landing?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, a couple of hundred thousand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. That's a lot of people to organize and to mo- to- to focus on one very specific goal. That's not happening today. So to say that we can't do it today, it's like people would say, if I was steel manning their position, I would say, "No, we're not trying to do it today. If we wanted to do it today, we could do it today."
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, actually, they- they are trying.
- JRJoe Rogan
400,000 it says. At the peak, Apollo program employed 400,000 people and required the support of over 20,000 industrial firms and universities. So here's the- the argument against that it would be fake. O- everyone would know and everyone would tell and it would get out.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, that's... Let me-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BSBart Sibrel
... show you how that's not true.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- BSBart Sibrel
First of all, Eugene Kranz, flight director, he said, out of his own mouth, that a person in the command center in Houston during a launch to the moon can tell no difference whatsoever between a computer simulated flight and a real flight. They can't tell the difference. It's just a bunch of numbers going by on a screen. So if a person in the command center-
- JRJoe Rogan
(sniffs)
- BSBart Sibrel
... cannot tell the difference, then how could we as a 10-year-old watching it on our living room at home? And then, do you really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the person making the glove or the boot or the door handle, "Hey, we're really not going to the moon. Be sure not to tell anybody."And then, it's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
No, because that's ... it wouldn't be the question. The question would be that, uh, too many people would have to know.
- BSBart Sibrel
But that's, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
And it would get out.
- BSBart Sibrel
No, it wouldn't. If a, if someone in the command center doesn't know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- BSBart Sibrel
... then the command center people can be fooled.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 17:51 – 24:20
Radiation belts and Starfish Prime: did Van Allen belts block Apollo?
- JRJoe Rogan
... the, the real problem, the question is the Van Allen radiation belts. Now, um, Operation Starfish Prime, that was the operation where they detonated a nuke in the radiation belts, right? D- Didn't they do something like that, something kooky, where they were trying to blow a hole through the radiation belts?
- BSBart Sibrel
I've heard that. I don't know. It's not confirmed. I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's ... well, it's secret squirrel stuff, but what is Operations ... Google that. What is Operation Starfish Prime? I remember reading that, going, "They did what?" (laughs) "They shot a nuke into space?"Starfish Prime was a high altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States, a joint effort of the Atomic Energy Commission, and the Defense Atomic Support Agency. It was launched from Johnston Atoll on July 9th, 1962. It was the largest nuclear test conducted in outer space, and one of the five conducted by the US in space. A Thor rocket carrying a W49 thermonuclear warhead, designed, designed at Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and a MK2 reentry vehicle was launched from Johnston Atoll in the Pacific Ocean, about 900 miles west southwest of Hawaii. The explosion took place in the altitude of 250 miles. So is that essentially like where the space station is and all that stuff is?
- BSBart Sibrel
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. Above a point 19 miles southwest of Johnston Atoll at a yield of 1.4 megatons, the explosion was about 10 degrees above the horizon as seen from Hawaii at 11:00 PM Hawaiian time. So what was the goal behind this, or at least what was the publicly stated goal behind blowing (laughs) up a fucking thermonuke in space?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, I guess they were trying to see if they could open up the radiation-
- JRJoe Rogan
That was the idea.
- BSBart Sibrel
... in order to go to the moon. They knew that the radiation belt-
- JRJoe Rogan
But you... Was this connected though, was this program connected to NASA officially?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, I, I think they were trying to see if they could open a way for an-
- JRJoe Rogan
Look what it says there.
- BSBart Sibrel
... astronaut to go through it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Look what it says there. Starfish Prime, and this always happens, caused an electromagnetic pulse that was far larger than expected. So much larger that it drove mus- much of the instrumentation o- off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii about 900 miles away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 (laughs) street lights. Holy shit. Setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. These boys were wild. They just experimented with a fucking nuclear bomb in space and it blew out 300 street lights (laughs) in Hawaii. Shut up. Imagine your burglar alarm goes off but the, 'cause the fucking government launched a nuke into space. (yawns) Holy shit. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian islands. A total of 27 small rockets were launched from Johnston Atoll to ob- obtain experimental data from the Starfish Prime detonation. In addition, a larger number of rocket borne instruments were launched from Barking Sands, Kauai in the Hawaiian Islands. A large number of United States military ships and aircrafts were operating in support of Starfish Prime in the Johnston Atoll area, and across the nearby North Pacific region. A few military shifts and aircrafts were also positioned in the region of South Pacific Ocean near Samoan Islands. The location was at the southern end of the magnetic field line of the ma- Earth's magnetic field from the position of the nuclear detonition, uh, detonation, an area known as the Southern Conjecture region for the test. So does it say why they were doing it, though?
- NANarrator
Let me get a second to look through.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I'm interested to see like why did you guys do that? (laughs) Like give me a, give me some sort of a logical explanation why you just took a fucking chance and launched a nuke 250 miles into the sky.
- NANarrator
Right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. What did they say they were doing? Okay. They began a response to the Soviets' announcement on August 34... 30th of 1961 that they would end a three-year m- moratorium on testing. Uh, began in response. Right. But why did they do it in space? I understand that they, they, they might have did nuclear tests back then because the m- moratorium was over.
- NANarrator
Probably aliens.
- JRJoe Rogan
Aliens? Killed aliens with nukes? That's probably why the aliens started showing up more. Well, that's the, all the folklore, the folklore about, uh, Fat Man and Little Boy, that when they dropped those bombs, that's when the aliens started showing up. Like, "Hey, hey, hey. What are you doing?" (laughs) Which I would do if I was an alien. That's around the time I would start landing, like as soon as they start dropping bombs on cities. Like Jesus Christ. So, we know they did that. That's a real thing. Why'd they do it? The speculation is that they were trying to open up a portal to make passage through the Van Allen radiation belts possible. Now, the people that say that it's easy to go through the Van Allen radiation belts will tell you that there... It's a donut. It's not a full... It's not like covering the entire sphere of Earth evenly, that there's openings at the top and the bottom. Is this correct?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, yeah. But then they would have to launch at the North Pole or South Pole where it's not possible to launch because of the temperatures.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the only way you could do it to get through those holes?
- BSBart Sibrel
That's right. According to NASA's own flight plan, they went directly through the center. That's why they launched in southern Florida, to be close to the equator.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. So what they would say is that it's not that dangerous and it's just like being exposed to a few X-rays and, uh, that the people were shielded.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, go to sabrel.com and watch the latest clip about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I'm just... You're right there, but you're right there. So I wanna, I just-
- BSBart Sibrel
Yeah. Well, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
I wanna give you the opportunity. What they would say to you-
- BSBart Sibrel
The, the clip there is of Kelly Smith.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- BSBart Sibrel
He's an employee at NASA explaining something that most people don't know, which is above the Earth starting at about 1,000 miles and extending about 30,000 miles is a huge band of radiation that astronauts would have to go through to the moon and through again back. First he says it's dangerous, meaning deadly. And then he says that the technology for an astronaut to go through it to the moon and back and survive has yet to be invented.
- 24:20 – 31:56
Orion-era NASA clip: interpreting ‘we must solve these challenges before we send people’
- NANarrator
Navigation and guidance for Orion. We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth, 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station.As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of dangerous radiation. (dramatic music) Radiation like this could harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back. (dramatic music) We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. Did he just say that over and over again?
- NANarrator
Yeah. He said it was for Orion, though.
- JRJoe Rogan
Excuse me?
- NANarrator
He said it was for Orion. You think he was talking about a different time period. He said you would have to solve it for when Orion was traveling.
- JRJoe Rogan
When was Orion?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, he says, "You must solve these challenges before we send people-
- NANarrator
Right. But was he-
- BSBart Sibrel
... through this region of space."
- NANarrator
Was he talking, what was he talking about, though? He's talking-
- BSBart Sibrel
He's talking about sending people beyond Earth orbit through the radiation belt.
- NANarrator
I-
- BSBart Sibrel
And he says that it's already-
- NANarrator
What was this video from?
- JRJoe Rogan
What's that?
- NANarrator
What's this video from?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. What is it? When was he? He said 2014, he was talking about this?
- BSBart Sibrel
Yeah. I think so.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what was this, uh, in regards to-
- BSBart Sibrel
The Orion project was to have a step toward going to the moon. He's talking-
- JRJoe Rogan
And what year was this? What was the year?
- BSBart Sibrel
I think he said that in 2014.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, the Orion project was a new, uh, project to go to the moon in 2014, just not as focused as-
- BSBart Sibrel
Correct. They were using part of that spacecraft on the Artemis mission when they sent mannequins through the radiation belt. He says, "We must first solve these challenges of radiation protection before we send people-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BSBart Sibrel
"... through this region of space." Meaning the technology to send an astronaut through the radiation and survive has not been invented yet.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's not exactly what he was saying. I see where you're going with this. But what he did say that, was it was dangerous radiation. You wrote deadly in all capital letters. Uh, but what he was just saying, it was dangerous. And he's specifically talking about instrumentation. He didn't say dangerous in terms of like to people.
- BSBart Sibrel
Right. Because that would be more of a clue that they didn't go to the moon.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's, it's-
- BSBart Sibrel
So, he didn't mention that.
- 31:56 – 1:01:35
The ‘smoking gun’ footage: “faking being halfway to the moon” and the radio-delay claim
- JRJoe Rogan
Let's look at the footage. Let's look at the footage first, 'cause I think we're just-
- BSBart Sibrel
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
... we're beating around the bush. The footage is so shocking that you immediately go, "Okay. What is this?" Like, what is this? I just wanna know what, what logically could this be?
- BSBart Sibrel
This, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
The only thing that I can think of that was logically would be that they were practicing.
- NANarrator
I'm asking though, is this the video, um, should, should be showing here or not?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm. Uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, this, so this is one when you compare back and forth, right?
- BSBart Sibrel
Correct. I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
D-
- BSBart Sibrel
... there's, there's more...
- JRJoe Rogan
Is there one of just the actual video that we can watch?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, there, you could go to, uh, sabrel.com, click on A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, or go to the Moonman video links at sabrel.com and pull this up, Smoking Gun. I just gave you the time cues on the most significant part where you could do the side-by-side comparison.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the side-by-side comparison is for?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, the, on the left, Neil Armstrong claims, this is 130,000 miles out, he claims that the camera lens is at the glass-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- BSBart Sibrel
... and that's the earth floating in space.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- BSBart Sibrel
What's on the right-hand side are the outtakes, that we got an unedited reel of the special effect shot by accident. And the lights come up, and you see-
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. So this is the exact same sh- size image.
- BSBart Sibrel
Correct.
- JRJoe Rogan
So roughly the same distance, if they were really out there.
- BSBart Sibrel
So on, on the left, he claims, and this is the part they showed to the public, that that's the earth floating in space halfway to the moon, looking back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- BSBart Sibrel
And then on the right is the outtakes, where the lights come up, and you see that the camera's really at the back of the spacecraft, and that's part of the earth outside of a circular window with a little crescent piece molded in front of it. And that's the take on the left-hand side. You're about to see Michael Collins break down part of the, uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
So this is where-
- BSBart Sibrel
... special effect.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is what I want everybody to look at.
- BSBart Sibrel
Yeah. So he's saying-
- 1:01:35 – 1:14:20
Claims of whistleblowers and intimidation: Cannon AFB deathbed confession and Gus Grissom
- BSBart Sibrel
instead of a little Atari computer animation and then suddenly a picture of them stable and coming out of the, out of the spacecraft? Because they faked it. As you know from my book, we have an eyewitness who saw them film-... Apollo 11 at Cannon Air Force Base June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, 1968. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but I have eyewitnesses that were raped by Bigfoot. You can find those.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
You know what I'm saying? Like if his son-
- BSBart Sibrel
His, his son, his son-
- JRJoe Rogan
... if it wasn't, if the guy wasn't here-
- BSBart Sibrel
His son, his son-
- JRJoe Rogan
If the guy wasn't here-
- BSBart Sibrel
(laughs) His son corroborates it, and we have a video of that we can show. The, the point is, and it's not even in my book, okay, the first thing the guy says as he's dying, about to meet his maker, fearing not being on the right side of judgment, is that he's a murderer, he killed somebody. His son, who you can go to sabrelle.com, watch his son's testimony, who saw his father's deathbed confession, he said, "Who did you kill?" He said, "I killed a coworker at Cannon Air Force Base where he was the chief of security." The military police came in and they interrogated him as he's dying, wanted to notify the relatives of the person who he killed. "Who did you kill?" "Such and such a person, a fellow employee at Cannon Air Force Base in 1968." "Why did you kill him?" "We both eyewitnessed the filming of the fake moon landing July, uh, sorry, June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968. My friend thought it was morally wrong, he was gonna tell a reporter, and I killed him to cover it up." His son confirmed he was chief of security at Cannon Air Force Base, he lived right across the street from it. He stood beside President Johnson who was there for the first of three days of filming, he gave him a list of 15 people that were there, who were allowed in the VIP entrance to eyewitness it. Neil Armstrong's on the list, Buzz Aldrin is on the list, and several people I never heard of. We got that list, we publish it in my book. Th- And this is, this is real, his son, after telling me this information and confirming it, his house was broken into a few days later, everything about his father was confiscated. Days after that, two agents show up from the government, this is less than two years ago, threaten to kill him and his family if he ever talks to me again about his father's participation in the moon landing fraud. The White House was involved in investigating this, the FBI was, and the United States Senate Intelligence Committee investigated this, and that man and those reports are sealed because it's a great embarrassment to the federal government that they did actually fake the moon landing. I was the biggest fan. If I can go from being the biggest fan to having to accept the sad fact that our government is that arrogant. And not only that, I interviewed the widow of Gus Grissom who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon.
- JRJoe Rogan
And we should explain one of the things that Gus Grissom did that got people very angry. He hung a lemon.
- BSBart Sibrel
That's right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, explain that.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, basically he was, he was totally confused how they could possibly think they're going to the moon in two years, he thought it was at least 10 years away, and, and still we can't even go now, right? Because of the radiation. And he was preparing reports to give to Congress and the Senate that his wife told me were confiscated from his house by CIA agents before they even informed her that he was dead, which had, he had died a few minutes earlier. She told me, I interviewed her for four hours, this is the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon, and he was the most beloved of the press corps. And he was so frustrated he kept complaining up the chain of command, they wouldn't fix anything because the higher-ups knew they weren't gonna go and hadn't committed yet to faking it, and therefore hadn't told the astronauts yet. And that's why they weren't fixing anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is your belief?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, that's, you know, her, her conclusion as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- BSBart Sibrel
And in his fury, without permission, he held a press conference, he invited in a bunch of reporters to the top of the rocket where he affixed a lemon the size of a grapefruit on a coat hanger, he said, "This thing is a lemon, a piece of junk." Made the evening news. And a few days later, he dies. His wife told me that on January 26th, 1967, he came home from work and said the following, "Hon, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launchpad today. I wonder why they're here inspecting the equipment? Never seen them here before." He's dead the very next day from faulty equipment. His widow told me he was murdered by the CIA, the man who was going to be the first man to walk on this moon. His son, 747 pilot, said the same thing, who I interviewed for three hours, that his father was murdered by the CIA. So it's one thing if they faked the moon landing and didn't kill anybody. Maybe I'll confess my devious nature, I kinda re- you know, (laughs) admire their un- ingenuity. You know, like the people who tunnel from the dry cleaner into the bank.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- BSBart Sibrel
But not if you kill three guards, slit their throats, who have wives and children. And the first-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wh- What, wh- what three guards?
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, I'm just saying for example, you know? If they, if they faked the moon landing and didn't kill anybody, that's one thing, but that's not the case, you see? And I know the type of person you are, and the type of guests you have on your show. We're true patriots, and patriots have to face facts that when people take an oath to this country, it's to protect it against all enemies foreign and domestic. They always want misdirection, the boogeyman to be in some other country where the biggest traitors to our country are Americans in high office, right? That's what's going on. And the first document of our country isn't the Constitution, it's the Declaration of Independence where it says when any government becomes destructive of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it. Well, according to Betty Grissom, they took away his life. They take a third of our income-... they deceive us to a moon landing, and then they use that money to pay the salaries of the CIA agents who killed Gus Grissom and two of his friends.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. But let's, let's go to Gus Grissom's death. So Gus Grissom died in an accident, right? He died in a fire, correct?
- BSBart Sibrel
His, his wife says that fire was set intentionally.
- JRJoe Rogan
I understand that she says-
- BSBart Sibrel
I believe her.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that. I understand, and I understand that, why she would believe that. That makes sense.
- BSBart Sibrel
Well, if, if her-
- JRJoe Rogan
But-
- BSBart Sibrel
... if her husband says CIA agents were messing around with the equipment the day before-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 1:14:20 – 1:20:35
Post-break continuation: Thomas Baron report, schedules, and ‘impossible first-time success’
- JRJoe Rogan
We'll take a leak. We'll be right back. So, um, we were at Gus Grissom died in a fire. There's another guy who NASA had hired to make a report, and he had this 500-page report. It... I think it was like 500 pages, about how bad... how badly managed, mismanaged the whole Apollo program was, and that he saw so many flaws in it that he thought it was never gonna get off the ground. And then he died-
Episode duration: 3:08:34
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Transcript of episode P7xu0t9dTbI
