Joe Rogan Experience #2141 - Bart Sibrel

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

Joe Rogan 0:13 All right, folks. Drop in. (laughs) Good to see you, man.

Bart Sibrel 0:16 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:17 We first met, what was it? Like, at least 20 years ago, right?

Bart Sibrel 0:20 22 years ago.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Was it 22?

Bart Sibrel 0:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Wow. So, uh, I had seen your movie, and I don't even remember how I got in touch with you 'cause this is before my podcast. I don't even re-

Bart Sibrel 0:31 You emailed me.

Joe Rogan 0:32 Okay. So, did I email you off your website? Is that what it was?

Bart Sibrel 0:35 I think so.

Joe Rogan 0:36 Hmm.

Bart Sibrel 0:36 And then you said, "If you're ever in LA, let's meet." And I happened to be in LA when you sent me the email.

Joe Rogan 0:41 Ah, synchronicity.

Bart Sibrel 0:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Yeah. So, let's take everybody on this journey with you. So, you were a young man. You were fascinated by NASA. You were a NASA fan. You had NASA photos on the wall of your room. What happened? What happened to you that you, you, you're... Essentially, you're known worldwide as the leading proponent of the moon hoax theory. You're the guy who's researched it the most. You're the guy w- who can auto-recall the most information, and you're the guy that the people that believe the moon landing was real hate the most.

Bart Sibrel 1:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:26 (laughs) So, how'd this all happen?

Bart Sibrel 1:28 Well, let me start by saying a comment about when you said "theory." You know, it's not a theory. They did fake the moon landing. That's a fact, whether people realize it or not.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Okay, but we weren't there, so let's just go on what we know in terms of facts, and I'm gonna call it a theory.

Bart Sibrel 1:48 Okay, you're so qualified.

Joe Rogan 1:49 Just for fun. I'm just trying to... Well, I'm gonna have to steel-man some of the arguments against you, you know, obviously. Ha- I mean, this is a fascinating but yet very challenging subject. I think today, more people are aware of the insanely widespread deception that the government was involved in during the same time as the moon landing. I think this is important. And I know a lot of people, um, who, uh, get very angry when you question the moon landing. Um, they, they use terms like patriotism. They'll... And ter- Uh, national pride, like, "We did this incredible thing, the scientists that we have." I understand what they're saying. I understand where they're coming from entirely. But we have to look at things realistically if we're ever gonna get an accurate picture of how the world works, and I think if we look at the time that we're talking about, the Nixon administration. We talk about the Gulf of Tonkin incident where they got us into Vietnam, where there, it was a bullshit false flag that wound up killing how many people? Was it, like, a million people dead because of that?

Bart Sibrel 3:01 Three million people, including 58,220 Americans.

Joe Rogan 3:05 Okay, there's that. There's Operation Northwoods during the same time period. Operation Northwoods was, uh, a, a plan that was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff where they were going to initiate false flags to try to get us into a war with Cuba. They were gonna blow up a, a drone jetliner and blame it on Cuba. They were gonna arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. So, there's, there's the Bay of Pigs. There's all these things. There's the Kennedy assassination itself, which they still won't release the files. There's the moon landing, and the moon landing... And then there's Nixon, getting Nixon removed from the White House, which I didn't know was a, a giant government operation, too. Tucker Carlson laid that all out, and I was like, "What?" And then I read a, uh, a bunch about it. It... What he's saying is totally true. This one's the one that people hold onto the most because it's a source of national pride, and it is also... Like, the accomplishments of NASA, the accomplishments of the scientific community, accomplishments of these people that are able to make things like the stealth bomber and all the wild shit that we know that is absolutely real. The space shuttle, Space X, all of the amazing engineers and scientists. Y- It seems to a lot of people that by calling the moon landing fake, you're discounting that work. You're discounting that amazing accomplishment from humans. What I want people to do (sniffs) is to say, "What did they tell the truth about?" If you're... If this is the one thing that you're willing to hang your hat on, 'cause I know they lied about everything. They lied about everything. They, they lied about MKUltra. They were dosing up johns in brothels with acid and monitoring them. They, they dosed up Charles Manson. They probably trained him how to be a cult leader in prison. The whole MKUltra thing is 100% legit, verified. There's plenty of documents on it. Um, they, they experimented on people with acid. (laughs) They did mind control experiments on people. What, what did they tell the truth about? What did they 100... They said, "You know what? I know we're liars, and we get people killed, and we're, you know, funneling money here and there, but what... We can't lie about the moon landing, guys." And everybody agreed, and everybody agreed. This one, this one we're gonna be... This is just... What it is is what it is, and we're gonna give the scientific community access to all the data so everybody knows it's verified. We're gonna have third-party people test everything to make sure it's verified.

Bart Sibrel 5:31 Well, you brought up a bunch of good points. Um, my opinion is really the opinion of the experts. For example, Robert Kennedy Jr. is 100% certain... He has more access to the JFK files than Oliver Stone does. He's 100% certain that his uncle, President Kennedy, was killed by the CIA. Then, as you mentioned, the Gulf of Tonkin. Robert McNamara, before he died, got it off his chest, said that the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the Pearl Harbor incident that got America behind the Vietnam War...... never happened. He and the CIA completely fabricated it. Congress passed a law, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, that led to the death of three million people and 58,220 American soldiers without cost. So, if the corrupt federal government is willing to kill their own duly elected president, if they're willing to needlessly kill 58,220 of their own soldiers, I don't think they have a problem faking an image of the moon on television. The problem is, it's a positive lie. You see, whoever killed JFK, you're just changing who did it and why. He's still dead and it's still a tragedy. Or 9/11, you can change who did it and why, but all those people are still dead. This is a positive lie, and people don't wanna give up that candy. And I come along and say, "Wake up and smell the manure." Some people are like, "Well, I know America has gotten bad, but at least we went to the moon." And people need to realize-

Joe Rogan 7:08 (clears throat)

Bart Sibrel 7:08 ... the sheer arrogance of the federal government to pull off the moon landing fraud when there's virtually no eyewitnesses, except three government employees and a picture we have to trust is on the moon from the federal government.

Joe Rogan 7:22 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 7:23 So it was actually very easy to fake. And in answer to your first question, I was more than a supporter, I was ga-ga idolizing the moon landings with my father in the Air Force, and giving me a- a packet of pictures of Apollo 11. And as I moved every two years from house to house, they were a prominent place of glory on every bedroom wall from-

Joe Rogan 7:46 So what changed?

Bart Sibrel 7:46 ... city to city.

Joe Rogan 7:47 What changed?

Bart Sibrel 7:48 Well, w- what changed is having an open mind.

Joe Rogan 7:50 And when... But was there a moment?

Bart Sibrel 7:52 Yeah. There... Well, the first moment was, I'm... (laughs) So from the age of... I was asleep in bed when it happened. But at f- age four, I got those pictures, saw them. I mean, even if I saw them once a day, that's 3,650 times (laughs) over the next 10 years. Probably saw them three times a day, so I see these pictures over 10,000 times, believing they're on the moon and being... thinking it's the greatest thing. And then, I'm 14 years old and I see Bill Kaysing, a former Rocketdyne employee who worked for NASA for six years on the Apollo program, with high security clearance only second to von Braun, who says, "Look, I edited a memo from von Braun to the Pentagon warning them they are not going to make the goal. There's only a 1 in 10,000 chance they can go to the moon on the first attempt." And they're killing-

Joe Rogan 8:42 And what year was this?

Bart Sibrel 8:43 That was back in 1966, I think.

Joe Rogan 8:47 And so three years later, they went to the moon. I- is it possible that they were able to overcome whatever challenges that get it... got him to 10,000 to one?

Bart Sibrel 8:56 Well, no, because, I mean, the- there... So we're gonna go over many proofs.

Joe Rogan 9:01 Yes. Yeah, this is important, but, I'm... I mean, I- I need the... every step of the way.

Bart Sibrel 9:04 Well, here's how you can prove that's not the case.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 9:07 Okay? Just through... So the number one proof that we have is simply deductive reasoning, because today, with 54-year better rocket designs and computer designs, the farthest that NASA can send a rocket with an astronaut into space is 1/1000 the distance to the moon. That's why they're sending mannequins to orbit the moon that can't even land, because they would die from the radiation. So, what they're really claiming is, back in 1969, ahead of schedule on the first attempt, when all of NASA's computers had one millionth the computing power of a cellphone, they sent astronauts 1,000 times farther into space than they can send today with 54-year better technology. So what they're really claiming is, they had 1,000 times better technology in 1969 than they do today.

Joe Rogan 10:04 Not necessarily.

Bart Sibrel 10:05 Well... But- but that is, because you can't have better technology in the past and in the future. That's impossible.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Right, but- but- but they haven't done a moon landing program today. So if they started a moon landing prodam- program today, the technology is vastly superior, right? The- f- the- the computing power of your- your phone.

Bart Sibrel 10:21 So it would take... It would take less time... It would take less time to return to the moon.

Joe Rogan 10:25 If they did.

Bart Sibrel 10:26 But it's taking more time, just not less time.

Joe Rogan 10:28 But they're not do... Right, but they're not doing it, right? Like during the Apollo-

Bart Sibrel 10:30 Because they can't do it.

Joe Rogan 10:32 Okay, that's what you're saying.

Bart Sibrel 10:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:33 And I'm- I'm with you, but- but the Apollo program doesn't exist today. The Apollo program was a massive program to try to beat Russia to get the first person on the moon. And it was a concerted effort by how many scientists? How many people were involved? How many employees? How many, like overall? I mean, very compartmentalized, right? But how many p- people overall were involved in the Apollo moon landing?

Bart Sibrel 10:54 Well, a couple of hundred thousand.

Joe Rogan 10:56 Okay. That's a lot of people to organize and to mo- to- to focus on one very specific goal. That's not happening today. So to say that we can't do it today, it's like people would say, if I was steel manning their position, I would say, "No, we're not trying to do it today. If we wanted to do it today, we could do it today."

Bart Sibrel 11:14 Well, actually, they- they are trying.

Joe Rogan 11:15 400,000 it says. At the peak, Apollo program employed 400,000 people and required the support of over 20,000 industrial firms and universities. So here's the- the argument against that it would be fake. O- everyone would know and everyone would tell and it would get out.

Bart Sibrel 11:32 Well, that's... Let me-

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 11:33 ... show you how that's not true.

Joe Rogan 11:34 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 11:34 First of all, Eugene Kranz, flight director, he said, out of his own mouth, that a person in the command center in Houston during a launch to the moon can tell no difference whatsoever between a computer simulated flight and a real flight. They can't tell the difference. It's just a bunch of numbers going by on a screen. So if a person in the command center-

Joe Rogan 11:59 (sniffs)

Bart Sibrel 11:59 ... cannot tell the difference, then how could we as a 10-year-old watching it on our living room at home? And then, do you really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the person making the glove or the boot or the door handle, "Hey, we're really not going to the moon. Be sure not to tell anybody."And then, it's like-

Joe Rogan 12:16 No, because that's ... it wouldn't be the question. The question would be that, uh, too many people would have to know.

Bart Sibrel 12:19 But that's, but-

Joe Rogan 12:20 And it would get out.

Bart Sibrel 12:21 No, it wouldn't. If a, if someone in the command center doesn't know-

Joe Rogan 12:24 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 12:24 ... then the command center people can be fooled.

Joe Rogan 12:27 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 12:27 Once the rocket is up, there's only three eyewitnesses to it. It's actually much easier to fake than we realize. A bank teller ... and how many bank tellers are at Wells Fargo? Hundreds of thousands, 400,000 bank tellers, probably. But do they know what the CEO knows about corruption in the bank? I don't think so. You see?

Joe Rogan 12:47 Right.

Bart Sibrel 12:47 There's a big difference. And then, we have no independent press coverage. World War II had a billion-

Joe Rogan 12:54 (clears throat)

Bart Sibrel 12:54 ... or more eyewitnesses in Europe, but there's no independent press coverage, only three people. It's much easier to fake than people realize, and yet people wanted to believe it.

Joe Rogan 13:05 I also wanna put people in the mindset of humans that lived in 1969 with an incredibly limited access to information. I think we've become incredibly spoiled by the internet and by the ability to search things and just read debunkings, scientific papers, all these different things that are available that you can read today that just were not available back then. And you knew either what you learned at school or what the government or your employees told you, your employers told you, and that was it. That's, that's all you had access to. So, these people that were working for NASA, to think that they had the kind of understanding of the way things are manipulated that we have today, there, there's no way they did. There's no way ... they, they didn't know about the Gulf of Tonkin then. They didn't know about Operation Northwoods. They didn't know about so many things that we know that the government has done. The Kennedy assassination hadn't happened yet, or it had happened, but they, they still didn't know who had done it, you know, that they had wrapped it up and said Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, without the Zapruder film, without the subsequent investigations of it where people said, "Wait a minute, this is ... this guy, like, keep, kept going back and forth to Russia? Jack Ruby was in the mob? Like, what, what the fuck really happened here?" To ... back in 1969 when the moon landings were happening, like, this is an innocent country. It was a different way ... people had a much different way of looking at things.

Bart Sibrel 14:27 Well, the people were innocent-

Joe Rogan 14:28 (laughs)

Bart Sibrel 14:28 ... but the government weren't.

Joe Rogan 14:29 Well, yeah.

Bart Sibrel 14:29 They'd just killed their own president.

Joe Rogan 14:31 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 14:31 They'd just faked the beginning of the Vietnam War, and they were emboldened to fake the moon landing because they had complete control over the media and a public who wanted to believe it, and even people at NASA and command center couldn't tell the difference between a simulation and a real flight.

Joe Rogan 14:47 They also had a history of faking things.

Bart Sibrel 14:49 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:49 They had a history of deception. It was, it was a part of the fabric of the organization. They were deceiving people all the time. They were deceiving United States citizens all the time.

Bart Sibrel 14:59 Well, and they still are. That, that's the thing about the moon landing and why it's so significant. I mean, let, let's take a look at the two possibilities. Either they went to the moon on the first attempt, ahead of schedule, with one millionth the computing power of a cellphone, but today they can only send astronauts 1,000th the distance. Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:16 (sniffs) Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 15:16 Let's say they did that, came back, whoop-de-doo, or they lied to the world, they lied to their own people, they embezzled a modern equivalent of $200 billion.

Joe Rogan 15:29 Oh, my God.

Bart Sibrel 15:30 They gave them medals of honor for being such good liars. They printed it on stamps and coins. It's taught in university. If that's true, which it is, that's so much more profound an event than had they actually gone. So, one of the greatest events in human history is actually the faking of the moon landing. And we have to understand, these people are still at large. You don't say-

Joe Rogan 15:55 (clears throat)

Bart Sibrel 15:55 ... "Oh, well, there's a, you know, a child kidnapper in the neighborhood, and one child disappears every month for the last 30, 40 years. Oh, well, what can you do?" These people are in charge right now. They did fake the moon landing. Don't believe me? Go to sabrelle.com, watch 17 clips for free that prove it.

Joe Rogan 16:12 Have you had any debates with people that think we definitely went to the moon and what you're doing is dangerous and ridiculous?

Bart Sibrel 16:19 Well, (laughs) the most interesting comment I got is I showed all this proof to a college professor of a major university, all this proof. I mean, like I said, shadows intersecting at 90 degrees, which you can't duplicate in sunlight, which means it's electrical light, which means they didn't go to the moon. All this proof, the footage we uncovered-

Joe Rogan 16:36 Can I stop you there? That doesn't mean they didn't go to the moon. That means that photograph is faked.

Bart Sibrel 16:40 Okay, okay. Well-

Joe Rogan 16:41 Right?

Bart Sibrel 16:41 ... why would the pictures be fake if they really went? But in any case-

Joe Rogan 16:44 Well, you could ... no, you could make the argument that the radiation damaged the cameras, and they weren't able to get real photographs, and so they made a, a conscious decision to use fake photographs.

Bart Sibrel 16:53 Well, I think if you were really going to the moon, you wouldn't dare fake any of it-

Joe Rogan 16:57 I-

Bart Sibrel 16:57 ... and be accused of that.

Joe Rogan 16:58 ... uh, I think they had, uh, a lot more hubris back then. They, they faked a lot of photographs back then. It was pretty common. Um, I mean, you know the, the famous one of the Gemini 15, where you see Michael Collins, uh, in a simulation where he's, he's doing a drill and he's attached to wires, and then they just used the same image and blacked it out and reversed it?

Bart Sibrel 17:18 Yeah, so you're saying NASA has a track record of faking space flights-

Joe Rogan 17:22 Or, or-

Bart Sibrel 17:23 ... before then. Yeah, you're right.

Joe Rogan 17:25 ... Publics- ... Or publicity firms that work for NASA had a limited amount of photos to work with, and they decided to manipulate some so that they could have photos that they didn't have of an actual event which really took place-

Bart Sibrel 17:36 Well, well, but-

Joe Rogan 17:36 ... which was a space walk.

Bart Sibrel 17:37 But what we have is them faking being halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 17:40 Right, but they do do things like space walk. They do do things like the Space Center.

Bart Sibrel 17:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 17:45 So, that's where it gets confusing, right?

Bart Sibrel 17:47 Well, they can't, they can't leave Earth orbit.

Joe Rogan 17:49 That's where it gets confusing.

Bart Sibrel 17:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:50 So-

Bart Sibrel 17:51 My-

Joe Rogan 17:51 ... the, the real problem, the question is the Van Allen radiation belts. Now, um, Operation Starfish Prime, that was the operation where they detonated a nuke in the radiation belts, right? D- Didn't they do something like that, something kooky, where they were trying to blow a hole through the radiation belts?

Bart Sibrel 18:10 I've heard that. I don't know. It's not confirmed. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 18:13 Yeah, it's ... well, it's secret squirrel stuff, but what is Operations ... Google that. What is Operation Starfish Prime? I remember reading that, going, "They did what?" (laughs) "They shot a nuke into space?"Starfish Prime was a high altitude nuclear test conducted by the United States, a joint effort of the Atomic Energy Commission, and the Defense Atomic Support Agency. It was launched from Johnston Atoll on July 9th, 1962. It was the largest nuclear test conducted in outer space, and one of the five conducted by the US in space. A Thor rocket carrying a W49 thermonuclear warhead, designed, designed at Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory and a MK2 reentry vehicle was launched from Johnston Atoll in the Pacific Ocean, about 900 miles west southwest of Hawaii. The explosion took place in the altitude of 250 miles. So is that essentially like where the space station is and all that stuff is?

Bart Sibrel 19:06 That's right.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Okay. Above a point 19 miles southwest of Johnston Atoll at a yield of 1.4 megatons, the explosion was about 10 degrees above the horizon as seen from Hawaii at 11:00 PM Hawaiian time. So what was the goal behind this, or at least what was the publicly stated goal behind blowing (laughs) up a fucking thermonuke in space?

Bart Sibrel 19:30 Well, I guess they were trying to see if they could open up the radiation-

Joe Rogan 19:33 That was the idea.

Bart Sibrel 19:33 ... in order to go to the moon. They knew that the radiation belt-

Joe Rogan 19:36 But you... Was this connected though, was this program connected to NASA officially?

Bart Sibrel 19:41 Well, I, I think they were trying to see if they could open a way for an-

Joe Rogan 19:44 Look what it says there.

Bart Sibrel 19:45 ... astronaut to go through it.

Joe Rogan 19:46 Look what it says there. Starfish Prime, and this always happens, caused an electromagnetic pulse that was far larger than expected. So much larger that it drove mus- much of the instrumentation o- off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii about 900 miles away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 (laughs) street lights. Holy shit. Setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. These boys were wild. They just experimented with a fucking nuclear bomb in space and it blew out 300 street lights (laughs) in Hawaii. Shut up. Imagine your burglar alarm goes off but the, 'cause the fucking government launched a nuke into space. (yawns) Holy shit. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian islands. A total of 27 small rockets were launched from Johnston Atoll to ob- obtain experimental data from the Starfish Prime detonation. In addition, a larger number of rocket borne instruments were launched from Barking Sands, Kauai in the Hawaiian Islands. A large number of United States military ships and aircrafts were operating in support of Starfish Prime in the Johnston Atoll area, and across the nearby North Pacific region. A few military shifts and aircrafts were also positioned in the region of South Pacific Ocean near Samoan Islands. The location was at the southern end of the magnetic field line of the ma- Earth's magnetic field from the position of the nuclear detonition, uh, detonation, an area known as the Southern Conjecture region for the test. So does it say why they were doing it, though?

Narrator 21:30 Let me get a second to look through.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Yeah. I'm interested to see like why did you guys do that? (laughs) Like give me a, give me some sort of a logical explanation why you just took a fucking chance and launched a nuke 250 miles into the sky.

Narrator 21:46 Right there.

Joe Rogan 21:46 Okay. What did they say they were doing? Okay. They began a response to the Soviets' announcement on August 34... 30th of 1961 that they would end a three-year m- moratorium on testing. Uh, began in response. Right. But why did they do it in space? I understand that they, they, they might have did nuclear tests back then because the m- moratorium was over.

Narrator 22:06 Probably aliens.

Joe Rogan 22:09 Aliens? Killed aliens with nukes? That's probably why the aliens started showing up more. Well, that's the, all the folklore, the folklore about, uh, Fat Man and Little Boy, that when they dropped those bombs, that's when the aliens started showing up. Like, "Hey, hey, hey. What are you doing?" (laughs) Which I would do if I was an alien. That's around the time I would start landing, like as soon as they start dropping bombs on cities. Like Jesus Christ. So, we know they did that. That's a real thing. Why'd they do it? The speculation is that they were trying to open up a portal to make passage through the Van Allen radiation belts possible. Now, the people that say that it's easy to go through the Van Allen radiation belts will tell you that there... It's a donut. It's not a full... It's not like covering the entire sphere of Earth evenly, that there's openings at the top and the bottom. Is this correct?

Bart Sibrel 22:58 Well, yeah. But then they would have to launch at the North Pole or South Pole where it's not possible to launch because of the temperatures.

Joe Rogan 23:04 That's the only way you could do it to get through those holes?

Bart Sibrel 23:06 That's right. According to NASA's own flight plan, they went directly through the center. That's why they launched in southern Florida, to be close to the equator.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Okay. So what they would say is that it's not that dangerous and it's just like being exposed to a few X-rays and, uh, that the people were shielded.

Bart Sibrel 23:23 Well, go to sabrel.com and watch the latest clip about it.

Joe Rogan 23:25 Well, I'm just... You're right there, but you're right there. So I wanna, I just-

Bart Sibrel 23:28 Yeah. Well, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:28 I wanna give you the opportunity. What they would say to you-

Bart Sibrel 23:31 The, the clip there is of Kelly Smith.

Joe Rogan 23:33 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 23:34 He's an employee at NASA explaining something that most people don't know, which is above the Earth starting at about 1,000 miles and extending about 30,000 miles is a huge band of radiation that astronauts would have to go through to the moon and through again back. First he says it's dangerous, meaning deadly. And then he says that the technology for an astronaut to go through it to the moon and back and survive has yet to be invented.

Joe Rogan 24:03 Let's listen to him say that. And when did he say this?

Bart Sibrel 24:06 I think he said that in 2014.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Okay. All right. Jamie will find that. We'll pull that up. Um, but that would be the argument against the moon landing being a hoax. Let's go.

Narrator 24:20 Navigation and guidance for Orion. We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth, 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station.As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of dangerous radiation. (dramatic music) Radiation like this could harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back. (dramatic music) We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of space. We must solve these challenges before we send-

Joe Rogan 25:11 Okay. Did he just say that over and over again?

Narrator 25:13 Yeah. He said it was for Orion, though.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Excuse me?

Narrator 25:16 He said it was for Orion. You think he was talking about a different time period. He said you would have to solve it for when Orion was traveling.

Joe Rogan 25:23 When was Orion?

Bart Sibrel 25:23 Well, he says, "You must solve these challenges before we send people-

Narrator 25:27 Right. But was he-

Bart Sibrel 25:28 ... through this region of space."

Narrator 25:28 Was he talking, what was he talking about, though? He's talking-

Bart Sibrel 25:30 He's talking about sending people beyond Earth orbit through the radiation belt.

Narrator 25:34 I-

Bart Sibrel 25:34 And he says that it's already-

Narrator 25:36 What was this video from?

Joe Rogan 25:37 What's that?

Narrator 25:37 What's this video from?

Joe Rogan 25:40 Yeah. What is it? When was he? He said 2014, he was talking about this?

Bart Sibrel 25:43 Yeah. I think so.

Joe Rogan 25:43 And what was this, uh, in regards to-

Bart Sibrel 25:44 The Orion project was to have a step toward going to the moon. He's talking-

Joe Rogan 25:48 And what year was this? What was the year?

Bart Sibrel 25:50 I think he said that in 2014.

Joe Rogan 25:52 So, the Orion project was a new, uh, project to go to the moon in 2014, just not as focused as-

Bart Sibrel 25:58 Correct. They were using part of that spacecraft on the Artemis mission when they sent mannequins through the radiation belt. He says, "We must first solve these challenges of radiation protection before we send people-"

Joe Rogan 26:12 Right.

Bart Sibrel 26:12 "... through this region of space." Meaning the technology to send an astronaut through the radiation and survive has not been invented yet.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Well, that's not exactly what he was saying. I see where you're going with this. But what he did say that, was it was dangerous radiation. You wrote deadly in all capital letters. Uh, but what he was just saying, it was dangerous. And he's specifically talking about instrumentation. He didn't say dangerous in terms of like to people.

Bart Sibrel 26:35 Right. Because that would be more of a clue that they didn't go to the moon.

Joe Rogan 26:38 Well, it's, it's-

Bart Sibrel 26:38 So, he didn't mention that.

Joe Rogan 26:39 It would be a thing that you would go, "But hey, how did they do it?" And then they'd get, it would, you would open up a can of worms.

Bart Sibrel 26:47 Right. But he says, "We must solve these challenges of protecting the astronauts before we send people-

Joe Rogan 26:53 Right.

Bart Sibrel 26:53 ... through this region of space." Meaning people cannot go through it until the radiation shielding is developed, and it has not yet been developed, a way to send astronauts through it and survive in 2014. So, if it's not been invented in 2014 yet, then it wasn't invented in 1969.

Joe Rogan 27:13 Well, and I think another thing is important to say that if you're saying that radiation is dangerous to instrumentation-

Bart Sibrel 27:19 And people.

Joe Rogan 27:19 ... it's going to be dangerous to bodies.

Bart Sibrel 27:21 That's right.

Joe Rogan 27:21 But I'm saying even if you don't say that, even if you're not-

Bart Sibrel 27:24 But he said people. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:25 He did say people, before he could send people. But he could, you could say, imply, I'm not saying this is true, but by what he's saying, that what he's saying is instrumentation would be damaged and that would be dangerous.

Bart Sibrel 27:36 Well, and he also included people. Before we send people-

Joe Rogan 27:39 Right.

Bart Sibrel 27:39 ... through this region of space.

Joe Rogan 27:39 Right. But, but it could be because they would lose their instrumentation. You could interpret that. I'm just trying to be as generous as possible.

Bart Sibrel 27:46 You're overly generous there, Joe. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:48 I'm trying to be. So, what is this, Jen?

Narrator 27:49 This is from Reddit. Someone says this is the full context of what he says in that clip.

Joe Rogan 27:53 Okay, here it is. "My name is Kelly Smith, and I work on navigation and guidance for Orion. Before we can send astronauts into space on Orion, we have to test all the systems. Only one way to know if we got it right, fly it into space. For Orion's first flight, no astronauts will be aboard. The spacecraft is loaded with sensors to record and measure all aspects of the flight in every detail. We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth, 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station. As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of dangerous radiation. Radiation like this can harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back. But Orion has protection. Shielding will be put to the test as the vehicle cuts through the waves of radiation. Sensors aboard will record radiation levels for scientists to study. We must solve these challenges be- before we send people through this region of space."

Bart Sibrel 28:51 So, the challenges have not been solved in 2014. So, how could they have been solved in 1969?

Joe Rogan 28:57 Well, the thing is, even if they did solve it back then, if, what, how did they do it? This is the question. This is what we know about the spaceship, the, what we know about the Apollo 11, what we know about the shielding that it had.

Bart Sibrel 29:16 They had one-eighth of an inch of aluminum. Now, when you get a dental X-ray, they use one-quarter inch lead. And so that's for one twenty-fourth of a second. They would be in that for an hour to an hour and a half going to the moon and an hour to an hour and a half coming back. So-

Joe Rogan 29:35 And what would that be the equivalent to, roughly, in terms of like X-rays?

Bart Sibrel 29:40 It would be 100 times more than a lethal dose, according to their own reports, which are documented at sabrel.com. All for free, you go on there and watch the videos and read the documentation.

Joe Rogan 29:51 Okay. And to be clear, and to be clear, how many people have gone through that, supposedly?

Bart Sibrel 29:57 Well-

Joe Rogan 29:57 What was the first ones? The first one, there was an orbit of the moon, a manned orbit of the moon before there was a landing.

Bart Sibrel 30:02 Yeah. There were allegedly 24 people who have allegedly gone through it to the moon and back. But the footage we uncovered shows them faking being halfway to the moon from Earth orbit. So, it proves that they could not even go halfway to the moon because they're faking being halfway to the moon. So-

Joe Rogan 30:20 Well, whatever that footage was, though, in all fairness, that footage wasn't released, right? That footage was found footage, correct?

Bart Sibrel 30:28 That was outtakes of them-

Joe Rogan 30:30 Right.

Bart Sibrel 30:30 ... faking being halfway to the moon, which even my greatest critic agrees that is them faking being halfway to the moon. And they're doing it from Earth orbit, and it's dated two days into the flight, where they're supposed to be-

Joe Rogan 30:42 We'll show the video.

Bart Sibrel 30:43 ... halfway to the moon. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:43 We'll show the video. But if I was going to steel man it...What I would say is, if I'm training these guys to film things, and they're training all day long to do a bunch of different things, one of the things I would do is to train them how to film the earth from the moon. And to stimulate, or to simulate that, I would say, "What you can do is black out all the light when you're in low earth orbit, focus on one of those circular windows, put the transparency or whatever it is in front of the window, and practice that way."

Bart Sibrel 31:11 Except it's dated.

Joe Rogan 31:11 So that way we make sure they get it right.

Bart Sibrel 31:14 Except it's dated two days and three days into the flight, when they're supposed to be halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Damn, my steel man's not working.

Bart Sibrel 31:20 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:21 Okay. So let's- let's take a-

Bart Sibrel 31:22 You're a really bad devil's advocate.

Joe Rogan 31:24 I'm just trying. I'm just giving-

Bart Sibrel 31:25 Yeah. Well, here, here, here's something about the-

Joe Rogan 31:26 We have to though, right? Don't you think I have to? I mean, this is an important thing.

Bart Sibrel 31:27 No, you don't. No, you don't, and here's why. Because we've heard their side of the story for 54 years. It's-

Joe Rogan 31:34 Right, but Bart, everybody hasn't. This is where you're wrong, because-

Bart Sibrel 31:36 No, their side of the story.

Joe Rogan 31:37 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 31:37 We've heard that the moon landings are real for 54 years.

Joe Rogan 31:40 We've heard, you've heard that. But you have, but-

Bart Sibrel 31:41 So they don't need extra time.

Joe Rogan 31:42 It's not they-

Bart Sibrel 31:43 The truth needs extra time.

Joe Rogan 31:43 ... it's the people today that are in the scientific community that believe the moon landing's real. So you have to approach it from the perspective of how they're going to debunk your debunk.

Bart Sibrel 31:53 Okay. Well, let me tell you something else about the radiation.

Joe Rogan 31:56 Let's look at the footage. Let's look at the footage first, 'cause I think we're just-

Bart Sibrel 31:58 Okay.

Joe Rogan 31:58 ... we're beating around the bush. The footage is so shocking that you immediately go, "Okay. What is this?" Like, what is this? I just wanna know what, what logically could this be?

Bart Sibrel 32:10 This, uh-

Joe Rogan 32:10 The only thing that I can think of that was logically would be that they were practicing.

Narrator 32:16 I'm asking though, is this the video, um, should, should be showing here or not?

Joe Rogan 32:19 Yeah.

Narrator 32:20 Mm-hmm. Uh...

Joe Rogan 32:22 Oh, this, so this is one when you compare back and forth, right?

Bart Sibrel 32:25 Correct. I mean-

Joe Rogan 32:26 D-

Bart Sibrel 32:26 ... there's, there's more...

Joe Rogan 32:27 Is there one of just the actual video that we can watch?

Bart Sibrel 32:30 Well, there, you could go to, uh, sabrel.com, click on A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, or go to the Moonman video links at sabrel.com and pull this up, Smoking Gun. I just gave you the time cues on the most significant part where you could do the side-by-side comparison.

Joe Rogan 32:47 And the side-by-side comparison is for?

Bart Sibrel 32:49 Well, the, on the left, Neil Armstrong claims, this is 130,000 miles out, he claims that the camera lens is at the glass-

Joe Rogan 32:58 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 32:58 ... and that's the earth floating in space.

Joe Rogan 33:00 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 33:00 What's on the right-hand side are the outtakes, that we got an unedited reel of the special effect shot by accident. And the lights come up, and you see-

Joe Rogan 33:10 Okay. So this is the exact same sh- size image.

Bart Sibrel 33:13 Correct.

Joe Rogan 33:14 So roughly the same distance, if they were really out there.

Bart Sibrel 33:17 So on, on the left, he claims, and this is the part they showed to the public, that that's the earth floating in space halfway to the moon, looking back.

Joe Rogan 33:25 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 33:25 And then on the right is the outtakes, where the lights come up, and you see that the camera's really at the back of the spacecraft, and that's part of the earth outside of a circular window with a little crescent piece molded in front of it. And that's the take on the left-hand side. You're about to see Michael Collins break down part of the, uh...

Joe Rogan 33:47 So this is where-

Bart Sibrel 33:47 ... special effect.

Joe Rogan 33:48 This is what I want everybody to look at.

Bart Sibrel 33:49 Yeah. So he's saying-

Joe Rogan 33:49 'Cause this is where... Okay, hold on a second. This is where it gets really weird. So they're saying they're 130,000 miles away, so they're in deep space.

Bart Sibrel 33:57 So that proves it's the window. You see that? That's an astronaut-

Joe Rogan 33:59 Right. So now there's people standing in front of the... You, we used to think that we're looking out into space at the earth, but now we realize there's people standing in front of it, so there's other stuff going on. So something out... There's, there, there's... You're filming a room, and then that's, whatever-

Bart Sibrel 34:14 That's literally the window.

Joe Rogan 34:15 Right.

Bart Sibrel 34:15 That's an arm.

Joe Rogan 34:15 It's a window.

Bart Sibrel 34:16 Yeah, that's an arm getting in front of the window. That's an outtake they never showed, because it shows that it's a fake shot.

Joe Rogan 34:21 Okay. Do you think that that is just a piece of the earth in a circular window?

Bart Sibrel 34:26 Well, I mean-

Joe Rogan 34:26 Or do you think they put something over the window to represent the earth?

Bart Sibrel 34:30 Uh, another photographer believes it's part, it's like a transparency of the... There's the circular window-

Joe Rogan 34:36 Let's let this play out.

Bart Sibrel 34:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:37 Let's let this play out, so that people see it.

Bart Sibrel 34:39 So that's the window. The point is, it's the window. It's a-

Joe Rogan 34:41 Back it up a little bit, Jim.

Bart Sibrel 34:42 They're using the window to create a one-foot model of the earth. They're... There's-

Joe Rogan 34:47 And they're using the darkness of the cabin by blocking out all the windows that makes it look like it's space.

Bart Sibrel 34:52 And it looks like... Exactly, it makes it look like the earth is floating in space. So we have them faking being halfway to the moon, which means they cannot go halfway to the moon, and here we are, 54 years later, and they still cannot go halfway to the moon. That's why there's mannequins orbiting the moon. They said in 2014 and 2018 they would have people orbiting the moon. They were 100% behind schedule.

Joe Rogan 35:16 Yeah, but that's politicians.

Bart Sibrel 35:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:18 They, they lie about everything, and they may, might have had grand plans and didn't get the funding. But this is shocking, weird stuff, because it's hard to explain... It's hard to come up with a rational explanation of what this could be.

Bart Sibrel 35:30 Well, they'll spend-

Joe Rogan 35:30 So, because if they are saying-

Bart Sibrel 35:32 ... faking being halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 35:33 Right.

Bart Sibrel 35:33 That's what it is.

Joe Rogan 35:34 And they're... But we should play the audio so they t- And they say, in the audio, we're 100,000... 130,000 miles away, correct?

Bart Sibrel 35:41 Right. And then they also say-

Joe Rogan 35:43 Let's play the audio.

Bart Sibrel 35:43 ... which is anot- which is another lie, that there's only one window that faces the earth, and it's filled up with a TV camera, meaning-

Joe Rogan 35:49 Right.

Bart Sibrel 35:49 ... the lens would have to be right up against the window to see that.

Joe Rogan 35:52 Right.

Bart Sibrel 35:52 But the camera's really at the back of the spacecraft with all the lights off.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Let's play that.

Bart Sibrel 35:56 You're seeing part of the earth outside of the window. It's very ingenious.

Joe Rogan 36:00 Let's play that so we can hear the words.

Bart Sibrel 36:02 Okay.

Joe Rogan 36:02 We can hear them say that, because it's even more interesting. So if you see the footage and then you hear the words, you go, "What are you... What could they possibly be doing here?"

Bart Sibrel 36:10 Go to the moon.

Narrator 36:11 Not this guy. I think we lost him.

Bart Sibrel 36:11 If they're faking being half-

Joe Rogan 36:12 This is you.

Narrator 36:14 Where do I, where do I find the video then?

Bart Sibrel 36:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:14 Where can we find the raw video where it's-

Bart Sibrel 36:15 The raw video is in A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon. Go to sabrel.com. It's on the homepage.

Joe Rogan 36:24 That's his YouTube channel.

Bart Sibrel 36:26 Yeah, that's not my, my film. That's another...

Narrator 36:28 Oh, is this not the video, though?

Bart Sibrel 36:29 No, that's not it.

Joe Rogan 36:29 No, go to sabrel.com. He's got links up there. Um. (sighs)

Bart Sibrel 36:34 Let me add one thing about the radiation.

Joe Rogan 36:36 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 36:36 So, after Kelly Smith put his foot in his mouth, I called up NASA. I said, "I'm a journalist. Can I talk to the guy?" "No, we don't allow him to talk to reporters anymore." I said, "Well, you sent up two Geiger counters on a civilian mission-"... with tax dollars to specifically measure the radiation in the radiation belt, which they should have had 50 years ago anyway.

Joe Rogan 37:00 Right.

Bart Sibrel 37:00 And then I said, "Can I please have those radiation readings?" And then they said this, Joe. They said, "It's a classified military secret." I said, "No, wait a minute. When you sent probes to the sun to measure the temperature of the sun, the temperature of the sun isn't a military secret. When you sent probes to Jupiter to find out how much helium is in Jupiter's atmosphere, the amount of helium isn't a military secret. So why would the amount of radiation surrounding the Earth and the radiation belt that most people don't know about, why would that amount of radiation be a secret?"

Joe Rogan 37:33 I would-

Bart Sibrel 37:33 Because if they reveal it, it would prove that they couldn't go through it to the moon.

Joe Rogan 37:37 Or, um, we spent a lot of money to get that data, and that data is very important if- if there's manned w- warfare in space. Like we have a Space Force now. There's an anticipation that we could live in a future where there's space wars, right? This is a real thought. Th- this space program is real. Th- th- you know, this, this Space Force is a real organization.

Bart Sibrel 38:03 It is then? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:03 If you've acquired... Yeah, it really is.

Bart Sibrel 38:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:04 I have a T-shirt Tim Dillon gave to me.

Bart Sibrel 38:06 Oh, that must prove that it's real, a T-shirt.

Joe Rogan 38:07 It's real.

Bart Sibrel 38:08 Okay.

Joe Rogan 38:08 I have a T-shirt.

Bart Sibrel 38:08 Okay.

Joe Rogan 38:09 An actual T-shirt.

Bart Sibrel 38:10 Well, you, you convince me.

Joe Rogan 38:10 So, but no, there is a Space Force. I think it was Trump's idea, right? Yeah. Trump started a Space Force, which is awesome. Um, anyway, that's data you wouldn't want Russia to have. Like so if the Van Allen radiation belts, if there's a way to get through them because you know exactly how much radiation it is, and you know that you need this amount of shielding, you don't want Russia to know that. You don't... You want them to do... Spend your own money, bitch. You can't have our fucking data. That's what I would say. I would say, "That's an American secret. That's national security." In that regard, right? Because if, if they're g- if we're gonna be doing space wars, if they're gonna be flying around through, but they don't know how to get through the radiation belts, but we do, then they're gonna rely on espionage. They're gonna-

Bart Sibrel 38:49 Well, they've sent probes to-

Joe Rogan 38:50 ... rely on bribing people.

Bart Sibrel 38:50 They've sent probes to the moon, so they would probably have Geiger counters on there.

Joe Rogan 38:54 Right. But as time goes on-

Bart Sibrel 38:56 And they would, they would know, they would know the radiation readings already.

Joe Rogan 38:58 But they sent probes to the moon a long time ago. As time goes on, the instrumentation is far more efficient. It's much better, more accurate. So the stuff that they get, the data they could get now, we would both agree, right? Would be way better data than you got in 1963.

Narrator 39:12 That's the argument people are making about now is that the instrumentation now is more susceptible than it was then because of transistors are smaller-

Joe Rogan 39:19 Makes sense. Yeah, makes sense.

Narrator 39:20 ... and more susceptible molecules-

Joe Rogan 39:21 Makes sense.

Narrator 39:21 ... from getting in there.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Yeah. It's, it's l- more complex.

Bart Sibrel 39:24 Uh, you can start the clip if you want.

Narrator 39:26 Where exactly? Uh...

Joe Rogan 39:27 That does make sense about the radiation belts when they were talking about instrumentation.

Bart Sibrel 39:29 Start at 34:23.

Joe Rogan 39:30 But my point is, my point is, uh, don't we recognize that the amount of instrumentation that would be dangerous to radiation would also be dangerous to biological human beings?

Bart Sibrel 39:41 Well, of course, that's why there's mannequins orbiting the moon instead of people, so.

Joe Rogan 39:44 That's why you have to wear a lead shield when you get an X-ray. And that's why if you've ever seen those horrific images of people that used to test X-ray machines back in the day. When they would first started using X-ray machines in doctor's offices, the, the technician would put his hand under it and X-ray it, and they didn't know that you were fucking your hand up really bad. This guy, they had horrible cancer all over their hands.

Bart Sibrel 40:05 And that's from 1/24 of a second, not something that's 100 times more lethal going on-

Joe Rogan 40:11 Right.

Bart Sibrel 40:11 ... continuously for 90 minutes.

Joe Rogan 40:12 So the point, the point is, regardless of whether or not it is dangerous to the instrumentation, that was their primary concern, which t- could be accurate, especially since the first one was unmanned. It's also that kind of radiation is probably bad for people. It's not go- unless you're the Fantastic Four, right? You go through it and you get superpowers, right? Isn't that what happened to them?

Bart Sibrel 40:34 Well, yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 40:34 (laughs)

Bart Sibrel 40:35 ... let's get back to the technology issue.

Joe Rogan 40:37 Yes.

Bart Sibrel 40:37 I mean, when they first exploded the first atomic bomb, 1945, just 10 years later, atomic bombs were 1,000 times more powerful. So if they could go to the moon on the first attempt with one-millionth the computing power of a cell phone, we would have been on Mars 10 years later. We'd be in another solar system by now, and there would be bases all over the moon.

Joe Rogan 41:01 It's the only interesting, uh, uh, one of the, one of the facts that there's no other technology from 1969 that's not easier, cheaper, and faster to reproduce today.

Bart Sibrel 41:13 Except going to the moon.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Except that one.

Bart Sibrel 41:14 Because it was a bluff, like in poker.

Joe Rogan 41:16 Okay, so let's play the video where you get to hear the audio. So the audio is really strange. So this audio is, uh, this is Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong, and Michael Collins in the, the spacecraft. And they are supposedly 130,000 miles away, and they're talking to NASA.

Bart Sibrel 41:36 Yeah, let me describe it a little bit before you hit play.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 41:38 So basically, if they are, which they are not, halfway to the moon, they estimated with radio delay and going through the analog computers, it would be two seconds out for them to hear the transmission and two seconds back. So this particular reel we uncovered, the unedited reel of this special effect shot of them faking being halfway to the moon, there's a third track of audio, who I believe is the CIA. So first you'll hear-

Joe Rogan 42:06 Why do you believe it's the CIA?

Bart Sibrel 42:07 Well, it's, it's whoever's helping them fake the moon mission.

Joe Rogan 42:10 And you think it was the CIA?

Bart Sibrel 42:11 I would, I would presume it would be.

Joe Rogan 42:13 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 42:13 And so-

Joe Rogan 42:14 Just a presumption.

Bart Sibrel 42:15 ... NA- NASA says the TV picture looks great. The person who he has an earpiece in counts off four seconds, "Thousand and one, two, three, four." Then we hear a third track of audio. Not NASA, not the astronauts, which has this kind of walkie-talkie, you know, radio type of sound.

Joe Rogan 42:31 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 42:32 He says, "Talk."

Joe Rogan 42:34 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 42:34 And then Neil Armstrong speaks. They're creating a fake-

Joe Rogan 42:36 Let's play it.

Bart Sibrel 42:37 ... four-second radio delay to make it appear they're beyond Earth orbit, which they are really not.

Joe Rogan 42:41 Okay, let's play it.

Narrator 42:44 Van Allen radiation belts. Understand, too, that only about 20 seconds of this raw footage was ever broadcast to the public and these conversations discussing their deception were believed to be private until now.Here, they discuss that these television transmissions were in fact not broadcast live as everyone believed. They were first screened and edited for playback later.

43:11 Roger, Neil. We just wanted to narrate it such that we can ... when we get to playback, we can sort of correlate what we're seeing. Thank you very much.

43:19 Here they discuss the fact that they have turned out the lights and have blocked out sunlight from entering the spacecraft through the other windows as to not cause any reflected light to fall-

Bart Sibrel 43:28 So, that's really the window of the spacecraft.

Joe Rogan 43:31 Let's let, let it talk.

Bart Sibrel 43:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:31 Let it talk there.

Narrator 43:32 Well, we shut out the sun coming in some of the other windows into the spacecraft. So, uh, it's looking through a, uh ... the, uh, number one window and there isn't any, uh, reflected light.

43:44 The reason this was done is so that the truth of the matter would not be revealed. It is this. Though the federal government would have you believe that this is a view of Earth from a distance out of the spacecraft's window as it nears the moon, it is not. What they have ingeniously done is place the camera at the back of the spacecraft and centered the lens on a circular window in the foreground, outside of which it is completely filled with the Earth in low orbit. The circumference of the window then appears to be the diameter of the Earth at a distance with the darkened walls of the spacecraft appearing to be the blackness of space around it. That is why they wanted the interior dark and blocked out the sun from entering through the other windows. Here you can see the extruded window, probably two inches thick at the bottom. This is because the earth shine is coming in at a downward angle. It also causes the Earth to appear to be an irregularly shaped circle for you are seeing the outside of the window at the bottom and the inside of the window at the top, which together form two different sized halves of a circle. Subsequently, this take was never used. As they perfected the shot, a crescent shaped piece of black material was inset slightly into the window to create the illusion of the Earth's terminator line dividing night and day. It is uncannily convincing. During this segment, intended to be edited and played back later for the worldwide television audience, dated July 18th, 1969, Neil Armstrong condemns himself as he states that he is 130,000 miles out or halfway to the moon, as the NASA flight log also states on this date, when he is in reality in low Earth orbit of a few hundred miles.

45:41 Roger. Houston, Apollo 11. Calling in from about 130,000 miles out.

45:48 Here during another segment also intended to air after review, Neil Armstrong falsely explains to the viewers how the shot is attained by putting the camera's lens to the window's glass, as it would have to be if they were the claimed distance away from the Earth.

46:05 We only have one, uh, window that, uh, has a view of the Earth, and it's filled up with the TV camera.

46:12 If the window was completely filled up with the TV camera, as he stated, then an astronaut's arm would not be able to get between the camera and the window as it obviously does here in this outtake.

46:25 South America becomes invisible just off, beyond the terminator or inside the shadow.

46:32 You can also notice how the astronaut operating the camera reacted to the mistake by attempting to pan away from it.

46:41 See white bands of major cloud formations across the Earth. And you can see-

46:48 This is a segment that they believed wasn't even being recorded.

Joe Rogan 46:53 Keep going.

Narrator 46:54 Much less suitable for broadcast for the lens was being zoomed out and the scene was being changed to that of an interior of the astronauts at work, and apparently the stop button popped back up on the recorder without notice. Here is the diffused work light that they used to see camera controls but not throw light onto the spacecraft's wall. Here, they remove part of the crescent insert. Finally, the iris is opened up and you can see the real location of the camera and the very bright and near Earth out the window. Here is the slate for the 19th of July.

Joe Rogan 47:44 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 47:45 Yeah, if you go through-

Joe Rogan 47:46 So, here's, here's what I would say if I was trying to counter what you're saying. All right, the Earth at 130,000 miles out is halfway to the moon. The moon is one-quarter the size of Earth. The moon, uh, on a full moon is fairly bright. I mean, you could walk around outside in the dark. I mean, it's pretty amazing how bright it is when it's a full moon. Imagine that four times greater and twice as close. So, the Earth which has blue reflective light because of the oceans and it's, it's, it's glorious. It glows in the sky. You would imagine that if you were filming Earth from 130,000 miles out, you would have to blacken the insides of the walls and you would ... you probably couldn't get the camera any closer to that window in reality, even by saying it's in front of the window, it's covering the window. You're talking ... I mean, it probably doesn't even fit any closer than that with all the instrumentation. If you were filming it specifically to try to get an image of the Earth and what it looked like at 130,000 miles out, would it even look that small? I don't think it would. It would probably look a lot larger. So, if they're shooting it through this window and the light is probably pretty intense, it might be the only way to film the Earth with the kind of cameras that they had back then would be to do it that way. To block out everything in the room and to film it through that circular window as close as they can get that camera to, and it's just shitty footage of something that they eventually figured out how to do right so that it wasn't deception.

Bart Sibrel 49:19 Well, the camera's at the back of the spacecraft-

Joe Rogan 49:21 Right.

Bart Sibrel 49:21 ... and that's the circular window, and it's filled with the earth.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Right.

Bart Sibrel 49:25 If they were halfway to the moon, and the earth was at the window, the earth would be a tiny dot out that window.

Joe Rogan 49:29 It wouldn't be that small.

Bart Sibrel 49:30 I mean, let, (laughs) let-

Joe Rogan 49:30 No. But it wouldn't... But stop. It wouldn't be that small, 'cause the moon's not that small. You get, you gotta think about how big the moon is. Okay? And the moon is one-quarter the size of Earth. Think about how close the moon is. So, the moon is a b- big-ass fucking thing. Right?

Bart Sibrel 49:44 So, let me ask you this, Joe. Do you think the moon landings are real or not?

Joe Rogan 49:48 I'm not saying that. What I'm saying to you-

Bart Sibrel 49:50 Okay. But wait, wait a minute.

Joe Rogan 49:50 But, but, but...

Bart Sibrel 49:50 I just wanna know what you think.

Joe Rogan 49:52 Because-

Bart Sibrel 49:52 What do you think?

Joe Rogan 49:52 ... I am th- I am gonna go at this...

Bart Sibrel 49:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:55 And I'm just gonna try to ask the most logical questions to refute what you're saying, without giving an opinion. I'll give you an opinion eventually. But this right now is, if you were going to film the m- the, the earth from 130,000 miles out, and the earth is four times larger than the moon, and you're halfway to the moon, I would imagine it would fill up that window. You wouldn't... You even... It, i- w- the difference between that and low-earth orbit, I'm sure there's a difference, but I still think from that small window, it might be the whole window filled with earth. That might be what you get.

Bart Sibrel 50:31 Well, that's not the opinion of myself as a filmmaker and three other filmmakers who, for a living, our job is to make fake scenes look real.

Joe Rogan 50:39 Uh-huh.

Bart Sibrel 50:39 And so, we all conclude that that's the window, that they have made a mock-up of a one-foot model to pretend-

Joe Rogan 50:47 But is there an image of that mock-up?

Bart Sibrel 50:49 ... to be halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 50:49 I never saw a mock-up. I didn't... There's... All you see is-

Bart Sibrel 50:52 Well, you saw them r- fiddle around in the window right at the end.

Joe Rogan 50:55 You s- you definitely see them fiddle around in the window, but I can-

Bart Sibrel 50:57 And the cam- and the camera, they lied about the camera being up against the glass. The camera is obviously at the back of the spacecraft to create that illusion.

Joe Rogan 51:04 I have a qu- Well, they said the ca- they said the window is filled with the camera. That's what they said.

Bart Sibrel 51:08 But it's not. It's at the very back of the spacecraft. The lights come up on the part-

Joe Rogan 51:12 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 51:12 ... they didn't intend on showing, and the camera has been at the back of the spacecraft all the time.

Joe Rogan 51:18 Right.

Bart Sibrel 51:18 They, they had to lie.

Joe Rogan 51:20 But-

Bart Sibrel 51:20 If they really were halfway to the moon, the only way they could film this shot would be to put the lens at the glass of the window. But it's a fake shot, and part of the faking is the camera is really at the back of the spacecraft, all the lights are off, part of the earth is outside of a circular window, and it looks cleverly like the earth floating in space, but that's really the window from earth orbit.

Narrator 51:42 Question.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Ja- quick. Jamie, go ahead.

Narrator 51:44 Uh, they use... In the video it says that this line here, which is like the terminator line, correct?

Bart Sibrel 51:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:49 Yeah. So that-

Narrator 51:50 It was created with tape?

Joe Rogan 51:51 No, like a-

Bart Sibrel 51:51 Well, that-

Narrator 51:51 ... transparency or something? To show-

Bart Sibrel 51:52 That, that's like, I don't know, some sort of crescent insert they put into the window to make it look like the terminator line between night and day. I think it looks very good.

Narrator 52:00 Well, the video said tape multiple times, and then she said they removed the tape. Could have been a transparency, I suppose, but that line is very, um, that's a very nice gradient, which was what it would look like if it was like the sunset, not-

Joe Rogan 52:14 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 52:15 ... not, um, tape or...

Joe Rogan 52:17 Well-

Bart Sibrel 52:17 Yeah. It's, it's less clear, right? It's less clear than like the top edge.

Narrator 52:20 And like, if it was a transparency sitting on the, on a glass or something, that line would be moving. It would have to be hard set to the circle.

Bart Sibrel 52:26 Well, I mean, just go, just go back to the segment with the little yellow circle around the window, and you can see they're fiddling around with the window-

Narrator 52:33 Wow. If, if, but they only-

Bart Sibrel 52:34 ... breaking down the model.

Narrator 52:34 If, but, Jamie, they only showed 20 seconds.

Bart Sibrel 52:36 (laughs)

Narrator 52:36 No, no. I know. I was just gonna say, if that's what I thought it was, I would... Why not just create, cre- recreate the fake scene, I guess, with, you know, a giant picture of the earth outside of a window?

Joe Rogan 52:44 Well, I think the point is that they had to represent the terminator line because of where they were in orbit. So, if they're flying away from Earth, and they're going towards the moon at a very specific time, you'd be able to know like where, you know, what part of the earth was dark at what point in the flight. Right?

Bart Sibrel 53:02 I would think so.

Joe Rogan 53:03 I mean, they, they had to have known. And they, they knew-

Bart Sibrel 53:06 But would the public know?

Joe Rogan 53:06 ... the calculations.

Bart Sibrel 53:07 But would the public know? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:08 Yeah. But I mean, they would do it the right way. If they were gonna fake it-

Bart Sibrel 53:11 Not necessarily. They made lots of mistakes.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Yeah. Okay.

Bart Sibrel 53:14 So, yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 53:14 Well, this one's a weird one. And t- to me, this is like the o- the only thing that I could say, if I was gonna steel man it, would be what I said, was that maybe his- he misspoke by saying it's in- covering the window. What- maybe what he meant was that the camera was pointed at the window, it was covering the window. And if you're gonna film something that's incredibly bright, that's coming into a bright environment, it's gonna be obscured by all the light. You know that, right? So, the way to film it correctly would be to adjust the aperture correctly, darken the room, and then point towards that window. And you would be saying that the camera is covering the window, 'cause it is covering the window. That's what it's covering. When you're filming something, you're covering something. So, you're... It's covering the window. It's looking out the window. You blacked out the cabin so that you could actually see what's bright coming out of that window, which is incredibly bright because it's four times bigger than the moon and twice as close because they're halfway there.

Bart Sibrel 54:07 Well, the shot where Neil Armstrong lies and says he's 130,000 miles out, we see a little blue earth with a bunch of black space around it.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 54:16 Right? But that's not the earth (laughs) floating in space. That's the circular window of the spacecraft that has part of the earth outside of it. That's what it is. The lights come up, and you see that's what it is.

Joe Rogan 54:28 For sure, if you're saying that blackness is space, that's deceptive. But-

Bart Sibrel 54:33 Well, that's what they are saying.

Joe Rogan 54:35 ... that might... But it doesn't mean they weren't 130,000 miles out.

Bart Sibrel 54:38 Well, why would they fake being 100,000- 30,000 miles out if they were really 130,000 miles out?

Joe Rogan 54:44 Because if they, if they had a policy of deception in terms of imagery, which it seems that they did, even though they did that... I'm just steel manning that. It doesn't necessarily mean that the whole thing was fake. Right?

Bart Sibrel 54:56 Well, if I were to-

Joe Rogan 54:57 Right, J-

Narrator 54:57 I also want... I was trying to understand. So, the... It's not that they're 130,000 miles out, but it's that they're in space faking the shot?

Joe Rogan 55:03 Yes, they're in earth orbit.

Bart Sibrel 55:03 Then they're doing it... They're faking being halfway to the moon from earth orbit.

Narrator 55:05 They went to space.

Joe Rogan 55:05 Which is why it's so bright.

Narrator 55:07 Wow.

Joe Rogan 55:07 The reason why it's so bright is 'cause they're just like the Space Station.

Narrator 55:10 That doesn't... I don't know. I just... I'm con- I'm getting more confused on all of these pieces, 'cause like, I, I thought that they didn't even go to space was part of the...

Joe Rogan 55:16 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nobody thinks that.

Narrator 55:18 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:18 Nobody thinks that.

Narrator 55:19 They did go to space.

Joe Rogan 55:19 Jamie, you need to catch the fuck up on Reddit.

Bart Sibrel 55:22 I... Bro.

Joe Rogan 55:22 (laughs)

Bart Sibrel 55:22 Well, look at this part here.

Joe Rogan 55:24 (laughs)

Narrator 55:24 That doesn't make sense to me to begin with.

Bart Sibrel 55:25 Keep, keep playing this part, Jamie, and you'll see that this is the window.Here's the work light inside of the spacecraft. Either that or it's a giant UFO, right-

Joe Rogan 55:34 No, you, it's definitely-

Bart Sibrel 55:36 ... floating outside of earth.

Joe Rogan 55:36 ... it's obviously a work light.

Bart Sibrel 55:37 Okay. And then here is Michael Collins breaking down part of the special effects shot using the window. You can see them dismantle-

Joe Rogan 55:45 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 55:46 ... this point, just watch it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 Well, well what ... but, but let's be honest about what we're seeing. What we're seeing is motion in front of the window.

Bart Sibrel 55:51 That's right.

Joe Rogan 55:51 That's what- But, but listen-

Bart Sibrel 55:52 So that's the, that's the window-

Joe Rogan 55:54 Yes.

Bart Sibrel 55:54 ... of the spacecraft-

Joe Rogan 55:55 That's true.

Bart Sibrel 55:55 ... not the earth floating in space-

Joe Rogan 55:57 Tha- that's-

Bart Sibrel 55:57 ... like they claimed a minute earlier.

Joe Rogan 55:59 Tha- tha- that's true. But-

Bart Sibrel 55:59 Which means they're faking being halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 56:01 Right, right, right. But I have to stop you. You're saying, like, r- make the transparency, all these different things you're saying, there's no evidence of that. You just see movement in front of it. I, I understand your assumption, but there's no evidence of a transparency.

Bart Sibrel 56:12 Well, it's not an assumption. It, it, it's that they're-

Joe Rogan 56:14 You see them moving, you see just dark shadows. Let's see it one more time. You see dark shadows moving in front of that thing.

Bart Sibrel 56:21 W- well, the point is that's the window of the spacecraft.

Joe Rogan 56:24 100%.

Bart Sibrel 56:24 Okay. Well, wait a minute. Stop, stop there.

Joe Rogan 56:24 I'm agreeing with you that some of the deception-

Bart Sibrel 56:27 If that's the window of the spacecraft, then that's not the earth floating in space-

Joe Rogan 56:31 Correct.

Bart Sibrel 56:31 ... which they claim.

Joe Rogan 56:32 Correct.

Bart Sibrel 56:32 Which means they're faking being halfway to the moon-

Joe Rogan 56:34 Not necessarily.

Bart Sibrel 56:35 ... which they would never do-

Joe Rogan 56:36 Not necessarily.

Bart Sibrel 56:36 ... if they really went halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 56:38 Not necessarily. It could mean that they just faked-

Bart Sibrel 56:39 So they went halfway to the moon, but they faked it anyway?

Joe Rogan 56:41 They're faking this footage, 'cause this is the best footage they can get with the equipment they have, looking through that window, and they, they came to a conclusion the best way to do it is to back the camera up, block everything out, and just film that circular window, and that's the earth. And that's the only thing ... And we'll pretend that it's the earth with space, but we really can't get that, because of the positioning of the camera, the, the amount of room that ... If you look as the thing goes bright. This is my question to you. L- I think this is compelling and it's bizarre, but when you say they removed the transparency, well, there's no transparency. You don't see it. You're literally just seeing black figures in motion. Now, in clarity, now you see clarity. So now you see the amount of distance, very small space they're working in, amount of distance where the, the circular window is, where the earth is, and then where the camera is. So the camera is, is still just a few feet from the window. It's not like it's in a, a giant room. It's just a few feet from the window-

Bart Sibrel 57:39 Well actually, they're three spacecraft-

Joe Rogan 57:40 ... filming the earth.

Bart Sibrel 57:40 ... coupled together, so it's quite deep.

Joe Rogan 57:42 Right. But it's still-

Bart Sibrel 57:43 In a straight line.

Joe Rogan 57:43 ... it's still not that big where they are.

Bart Sibrel 57:45 Well, it's, it's about eight to 10 feet away from the window.

Joe Rogan 57:47 That's pretty small.

Bart Sibrel 57:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:48 This, this whole room is pretty small, right? It's basically smaller than here to the, where the, our screen is that we're looking at.

Bart Sibrel 57:53 But the point is, it's not the earth floating in space, it's the window-

Joe Rogan 57:57 It's definitely not.

Bart Sibrel 57:58 ... made up to look like the earth floating in space.

Joe Rogan 58:01 The black, the, the black, the blacked out environment-

Bart Sibrel 58:02 Which, which-

Joe Rogan 58:02 If they're pr- trying to pretend that that's space, that's deception.

Bart Sibrel 58:05 Exactly. So-

Joe Rogan 58:05 But it still doesn't mean-

Bart Sibrel 58:07 So, so wait a minute.

Joe Rogan 58:07 ... that they're not 100 th-

Bart Sibrel 58:07 So one, one, one thing at a time. So we've concluded-

Joe Rogan 58:10 Mm-hmm. Yes.

Bart Sibrel 58:10 ... they are faking being halfway to the moon.

Joe Rogan 58:12 No, no, no. That's not what we concluded. We concluded that they are faking that the blackness around that image of the earth is space. That's all we're confirming. I don't ... That's why I'm confused too. But hold on, Jamie. I'm- Hold on, Jamie. Okay. So we're, we're, we're confirming that they definitely were ... if they were saying that that blackness, which is clearly the inside of the cockpit, right? Clearly. What if they're saying that that blackness is space and that circular image is the earth, looking at the earth through space, that's clearly a deception.

Bart Sibrel 58:40 Okay. So the Apollo 11-

Joe Rogan 58:41 Based on this footage.

Bart Sibrel 58:41 ... is being deceptive with their photography.

Joe Rogan 58:44 With this.

Bart Sibrel 58:44 Why would they do that if they really went to the moon?

Joe Rogan 58:46 Okay. The steel man. And I know this is annoying to people.

Bart Sibrel 58:48 You mean ... Steel man means devil's advocate, is that what you're saying?

Joe Rogan 58:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm taking the other side's position.

Bart Sibrel 58:54 Why? Why?

Joe Rogan 58:54 Because it's interesting to see how, how it lines up.

Bart Sibrel 58:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:58 You would say this ... they wanted good footage, they couldn't get fo- good footage any other way, they couldn't get through where the camera is and how big the camera is and how small the window is and the amount of space they're working with, they couldn't get real clear footage of the earth in space in the distance, so they decided to film it this way. Film it through that circular window, we'll black out everything, it'll look like space, but you will see the earth from where we are, which is 130,000 miles out.

Bart Sibrel 59:25 You know, there's a film coming out in July, and I don't know, I've only seen the trailer, but they talk about shooting a fake moon landing as a backup. Now, they don't care why you believe the moon landings are real as long as you do. If you believe it, they're communing with aliens with a secret crew or Neil Armstrong does it, they don't care. The, the same thing. If they really went to the moon, they wouldn't have to fake any of it, because they showed so little of the mission anyway.

Joe Rogan 59:54 Right.

Bart Sibrel 59:54 During the, during the-

Joe Rogan 59:55 But if they really went to the moon, it's more-

Bart Sibrel 59:56 They wouldn't dare-

Joe Rogan 59:57 ... it's more complicated.

Bart Sibrel 59:59 They wouldn't dare fake. They wouldn't dare fake any of it, because there are people at the time already saying it was fake. They wouldn't dare fake any of it if it was real. Even during the landing, they showed computer animation. And then all of a sudden, you see that black and white image of it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 They wouldn't dare fake it if it was real. And see, this is where we disagree. Because I think if it's very difficult to go there, it's even more difficult to go there and document it, right? And specifically when you're talking about camera equipment. If you take camera equipment, the old s- old school film, and you run it through old school radar detectors at the airport, those metal detectors, it fucks up your camera equipment, right? Doesn't it fuck up your film?

Bart Sibrel 1:00:37 Well, I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 But doesn't it? Isn't that correct?

Bart Sibrel 1:00:39 It wasn't difficult for them to go to the moon.

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 But hold on.

Bart Sibrel 1:00:41 They, they went six times in-

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 I know, but listen to me.

Bart Sibrel 1:00:44 ... in three years. They drove cars on the moon-

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 But listen to me. But that's not what I'm saying.

Bart Sibrel 1:00:47 ... played golf on the moon.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 But that's not what I'm saying.

Bart Sibrel 1:00:48 And yet, for some reason, today, they can only send mannequins to orbit the moon?

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Listen, we're in agreement on this. That's not what I'm saying.

Bart Sibrel 1:00:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 What I'm saying is, what you could say is that the real pro- maybe they went and they faked the footage. And the reason they faked the footage, 'cause the footage got all fucked up because they went through radiation.

Bart Sibrel 1:01:05 I'm sure they would love the public to believe that, because many filmmakers, like myself, agree that the footage is fake. So how can we possibly trick the public into thinking the moon landings are real even though the pictures are fake? Why don't we create a feature film saying, "Well, we just only did it as backup and some of that footage got, got leaked into the real footage"? They showed so li- little real footage to begin with. Why didn't they just have a camera on the side of the rocket showing live pictures during the descent

Bart Sibrel 1:01:35 instead of a little Atari computer animation and then suddenly a picture of them stable and coming out of the, out of the spacecraft? Because they faked it. As you know from my book, we have an eyewitness who saw them film-... Apollo 11 at Cannon Air Force Base June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, 1968. And-

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Yeah, but I have eyewitnesses that were raped by Bigfoot. You can find those.

Bart Sibrel 1:01:59 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 You know what I'm saying? Like if his son-

Bart Sibrel 1:02:01 His, his son, his son-

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 ... if it wasn't, if the guy wasn't here-

Bart Sibrel 1:02:03 His son, his son-

Joe Rogan 1:02:03 If the guy wasn't here-

Bart Sibrel 1:02:04 (laughs) His son corroborates it, and we have a video of that we can show. The, the point is, and it's not even in my book, okay, the first thing the guy says as he's dying, about to meet his maker, fearing not being on the right side of judgment, is that he's a murderer, he killed somebody. His son, who you can go to sabrelle.com, watch his son's testimony, who saw his father's deathbed confession, he said, "Who did you kill?" He said, "I killed a coworker at Cannon Air Force Base where he was the chief of security." The military police came in and they interrogated him as he's dying, wanted to notify the relatives of the person who he killed. "Who did you kill?" "Such and such a person, a fellow employee at Cannon Air Force Base in 1968." "Why did you kill him?" "We both eyewitnessed the filming of the fake moon landing July, uh, sorry, June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968. My friend thought it was morally wrong, he was gonna tell a reporter, and I killed him to cover it up." His son confirmed he was chief of security at Cannon Air Force Base, he lived right across the street from it. He stood beside President Johnson who was there for the first of three days of filming, he gave him a list of 15 people that were there, who were allowed in the VIP entrance to eyewitness it. Neil Armstrong's on the list, Buzz Aldrin is on the list, and several people I never heard of. We got that list, we publish it in my book. Th- And this is, this is real, his son, after telling me this information and confirming it, his house was broken into a few days later, everything about his father was confiscated. Days after that, two agents show up from the government, this is less than two years ago, threaten to kill him and his family if he ever talks to me again about his father's participation in the moon landing fraud. The White House was involved in investigating this, the FBI was, and the United States Senate Intelligence Committee investigated this, and that man and those reports are sealed because it's a great embarrassment to the federal government that they did actually fake the moon landing. I was the biggest fan. If I can go from being the biggest fan to having to accept the sad fact that our government is that arrogant. And not only that, I interviewed the widow of Gus Grissom who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 And we should explain one of the things that Gus Grissom did that got people very angry. He hung a lemon.

Bart Sibrel 1:04:44 That's right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Yeah, explain that.

Bart Sibrel 1:04:46 Well, basically he was, he was totally confused how they could possibly think they're going to the moon in two years, he thought it was at least 10 years away, and, and still we can't even go now, right? Because of the radiation. And he was preparing reports to give to Congress and the Senate that his wife told me were confiscated from his house by CIA agents before they even informed her that he was dead, which had, he had died a few minutes earlier. She told me, I interviewed her for four hours, this is the man who was going to be the first man to walk on the moon, and he was the most beloved of the press corps. And he was so frustrated he kept complaining up the chain of command, they wouldn't fix anything because the higher-ups knew they weren't gonna go and hadn't committed yet to faking it, and therefore hadn't told the astronauts yet. And that's why they weren't fixing anything.

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 This is your belief?

Bart Sibrel 1:05:40 Well, that's, you know, her, her conclusion as well.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 Right.

Bart Sibrel 1:05:43 And in his fury, without permission, he held a press conference, he invited in a bunch of reporters to the top of the rocket where he affixed a lemon the size of a grapefruit on a coat hanger, he said, "This thing is a lemon, a piece of junk." Made the evening news. And a few days later, he dies. His wife told me that on January 26th, 1967, he came home from work and said the following, "Hon, for some strange reason, the CIA is all over the launchpad today. I wonder why they're here inspecting the equipment? Never seen them here before." He's dead the very next day from faulty equipment. His widow told me he was murdered by the CIA, the man who was going to be the first man to walk on this moon. His son, 747 pilot, said the same thing, who I interviewed for three hours, that his father was murdered by the CIA. So it's one thing if they faked the moon landing and didn't kill anybody. Maybe I'll confess my devious nature, I kinda re- you know, (laughs) admire their un- ingenuity. You know, like the people who tunnel from the dry cleaner into the bank.

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Uh-huh.

Bart Sibrel 1:06:52 But not if you kill three guards, slit their throats, who have wives and children. And the first-

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 Wh- What, wh- what three guards?

Bart Sibrel 1:07:00 Well, I'm just saying for example, you know? If they, if they faked the moon landing and didn't kill anybody, that's one thing, but that's not the case, you see? And I know the type of person you are, and the type of guests you have on your show. We're true patriots, and patriots have to face facts that when people take an oath to this country, it's to protect it against all enemies foreign and domestic. They always want misdirection, the boogeyman to be in some other country where the biggest traitors to our country are Americans in high office, right? That's what's going on. And the first document of our country isn't the Constitution, it's the Declaration of Independence where it says when any government becomes destructive of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it. Well, according to Betty Grissom, they took away his life. They take a third of our income-... they deceive us to a moon landing, and then they use that money to pay the salaries of the CIA agents who killed Gus Grissom and two of his friends.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Okay. But let's, let's go to Gus Grissom's death. So Gus Grissom died in an accident, right? He died in a fire, correct?

Bart Sibrel 1:08:15 His, his wife says that fire was set intentionally.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 I understand that she says-

Bart Sibrel 1:08:19 I believe her.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 ... that. I understand, and I understand that, why she would believe that. That makes sense.

Bart Sibrel 1:08:23 Well, if, if her-

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 But-

Bart Sibrel 1:08:23 ... if her husband says CIA agents were messing around with the equipment the day before-

Joe Rogan 1:08:27 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 1:08:27 ... and he's dead the next day from faulty equipment, the CIA killed him. It's a pretty obvious conclusion.

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 That's ... It could p- possibly be that, definitely. But also when you're launching rockets, a lot of people die.

Bart Sibrel 1:08:39 They weren't launching anything. It was just a ground test of pressing buttons, and they found that they pressurized that space capsule with 100% oxygen, where steel will become flammable. They reversed the door the day before, so that it opened inwardly instead of outwardly, took an extra five or 10 minutes to open up. And then they found a pile of oily rags under his seat, so that they would do a spark. And then I got the Apollo 1 report. We bought it for $10,000 from Roger Chaffee's widow, from his estate. And there was a dip in power right before the fire, because the CIA had clamped ... something clamped in there to start the fire. They ignited it, it caused a dip in power, and then the fire began.

Joe Rogan 1:09:26 So where's this evidence that there was a dip in power?

Bart Sibrel 1:09:29 Well, it's in the Apollo 1 report.

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 That there was a dip in power? They had a report-

Bart Sibrel 1:09:32 Right before the fire, because something was tapped into there-

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Right.

Bart Sibrel 1:09:35 ... that the CIA rigged-

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 (coughs)

Bart Sibrel 1:09:36 ... the previous day.

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 And-

Bart Sibrel 1:09:38 And that's what killed him.

Joe Rogan 1:09:39 Is there a logical explanation for why they reversed the doors?

Bart Sibrel 1:09:42 Yeah. So, uh, they would make sure not to be able to get out. It would take more time to get out-

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 But is there-

Bart Sibrel 1:09:47 ... to make sure they were killed before.

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 But is there a logical explanation in terms of an improvement-

Bart Sibrel 1:09:50 They could say-

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 ... in design for use in space?

Bart Sibrel 1:09:51 They could say they were, they were just testing something new, right? That's their excuse.

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 Right. Um, and the fire, what was the official explanation for how the fire was started?

Bart Sibrel 1:10:04 (smacks lips) Just faulty wiring.

Joe Rogan 1:10:07 And what was the evidence that the oxygen had been increased in the environment? Was-

Bart Sibrel 1:10:11 Well, that's a fact. They, they knew not to do that. They ... and it caused fatalities before.

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 Where did you hear this fact?

Bart Sibrel 1:10:17 Well, she told me, and it's in the Apollo 1 report, which I read.

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 So in the, in the Apollo 1 report, it says they increased the oxygen by how much?

Bart Sibrel 1:10:24 Well, they did 100% oxygen in the cabin.

Joe Rogan 1:10:26 And did they say why?

Bart Sibrel 1:10:28 They was just testing it. S- something to test and experiment, right?

Joe Rogan 1:10:34 And so that i- ... then a fire ignites.

Bart Sibrel 1:10:36 That's right. They rigged-

Joe Rogan 1:10:37 And i-

Bart Sibrel 1:10:37 They rigged it with the oily rags under there, with reversing the ... They did everything they could to make sure those guys burned alive, to get rid of the guy, because Gus Grissom, had they asked him to fake the moon landing, he would have said, "No way," and then he would have gone to the reporters.

Joe Rogan 1:10:52 Okay.

Bart Sibrel 1:10:52 The same reason my source, Cyrus Eugene Akers, killed his coworker, because his coworker witnessed Apollo 11 being filmed at Cannon Air Force Base in 1968, said, "This is wrong for the government to do this," and was gonna tell a reporter, and he was killed-

Joe Rogan 1:11:08 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 1:11:08 ... for the very same reason.

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 Yeah. I'm ... I would love to see the video of that. If there was a video of it, it'd be interesting.

Bart Sibrel 1:11:15 Yeah. There's a video of his son-

Joe Rogan 1:11:16 But there's also-

Bart Sibrel 1:11:17 ... talking about this.

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 Yeah, man. (laughs)

Bart Sibrel 1:11:18 If you have it cued up there, Jamie.

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 Pro- people get old, and when they get old, they, they say crazy things. When we listen to Biden-

Bart Sibrel 1:11:23 I don't think it's that crazy to say, um, uh, he ... "We, we verified he was the chief of security at Cannon Air Force Base."

Joe Rogan 1:11:28 Right. But what ... I don't know what his mental state was when he was dying. I don't know if he had dementia. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like-

Bart Sibrel 1:11:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 ... people could ... Y- ... But I'm not saying-

Bart Sibrel 1:11:34 Are you sure-

Joe Rogan 1:11:35 ... that it didn't happen.

Bart Sibrel 1:11:35 ... you didn't work for OJ Simpson's defense team?

Joe Rogan 1:11:37 I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that some old people, particular ... First of all, memories are terrible. Most people's memories are awful.

Bart Sibrel 1:11:43 You just said that earlier. You forgot.

Joe Rogan 1:11:46 That memories are terrible?

Bart Sibrel 1:11:47 Yeah, yeah. You just said it a second ago.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 Yeah. Th- ... So most people's memory is not that good. And then if you're really old and you're mentally compromised and maybe you have full-blown dementia and maybe you imagine things, that's also possible. I mean-

Bart Sibrel 1:12:02 Uh, that's an odd thing to, to, to think-

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 A deathbed confession, I would like-

Bart Sibrel 1:12:04 ... "I killed somebody to cover up the moon landing fraud."

Joe Rogan 1:12:07 I know, because some crazy-

Bart Sibrel 1:12:07 What are the odds of that being dementia?

Joe Rogan 1:12:09 Not, not very good-

Bart Sibrel 1:12:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:11 ... but also possible. When people have dementia, they, they think they're secret agents. They don't know what the fuck is going on. They don't know their name. They don't know their kids. They ... You know, peop- ... When people are dying, and they're dying, you know, usually there's a lot of stuff going on. It's not just your body failing.

Bart Sibrel 1:12:24 So he articulated a lot of details.

Joe Rogan 1:12:26 Fascinating.

Bart Sibrel 1:12:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:27 And could be what we hope it is, which is deathbed confession, like, uh ... Didn't E. Howard Hunt have a deathbed confession about the JFK assassination?

Bart Sibrel 1:12:35 Well, one of the videos, if you have it cued up, Jamie, is his son giving his deathbed confession, right, as he's dying of cancer, of what he saw his father say.

Joe Rogan 1:12:44 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 1:12:44 He says, "I lived right across from Cannon Air Force Base. My father was chief of security." He shows us a picture of his badge and his uniform. He was there.

Joe Rogan 1:12:53 Yeah.

Bart Sibrel 1:12:53 And-

Joe Rogan 1:12:54 And then, you know-

Bart Sibrel 1:12:54 ... and, and the ... And what Bill Kaysing said, I had to look up m- from my own library. Bill Kaysing said, "The whole moon landing falsification was supervised by the United States Air Force." Well, my dad was in the Air Force. I never heard of Cannon Air Force Base. It's tiny, few eyewitnesses. And then every department of the military has their special ops intelligence division headquarters. It's headquartered at Cannon Air Force Base. And so that's where it was filmed. And I even confirmed that several people were there, including a gentleman by the name of Robert Emenegger. Never heard of the guy, a science fiction writer who cr- ... who promotes UFOs, which is another reason to doubt UFOs. Because the same guy who says UFOs are real spent his whole life saying the moon landings are real. You see that?

Joe Rogan 1:13:44 Mm-hmm.

Bart Sibrel 1:13:45 Same thing with the astronauts. Steven Greer's number one source that UFOs are real, and I have a book coming out about this as well at my website. He says his number one source that UFOs are real is the Apollo astronauts said so. You see that? And-

Joe Rogan 1:13:59 Which one? Edgar Mitchell?

Bart Sibrel 1:14:01 Well, yeah, Edgar Mitchell among many others.

Joe Rogan 1:14:03 Yeah. And let's, let's come back to that... I gotta take a leak. Let's come back to that, and this is great. I appreciate you. Thank you for coming here. This has been a lot of fun, and I hope you, uh, don't mind me being annoying, but I have to, to like, to cover this, and we'll get into more, so-

Bart Sibrel 1:14:15 You don't have to.

Joe Rogan 1:14:16 I do, I do.

Bart Sibrel 1:14:16 No, you don't.

Joe Rogan 1:14:17 This is the right way to do it, trust me.

Bart Sibrel 1:14:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 Trust me. Okay.

Bart Sibrel 1:14:20 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 We'll take a leak. We'll be right back. So, um, we were at Gus Grissom died in a fire. There's another guy who NASA had hired to make a report, and he had this 500-page report. It... I think it was like 500 pages, about how bad... how badly managed, mismanaged the whole Apollo program was, and that he