CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:31
Greg Overton joins the show: podcasts, Zippos, and Joe’s samurai armor
Joe and Greg reconnect, talk about Greg’s prior podcast appearances, and shout out the Curious Jones podcast and custom Zippos. The conversation detours into Joe’s real samurai armor and an especially old sword, setting a tone of art, history, and obsession.
- •Greg mentions the Curious Jones podcast and “Lit Zips” Zippos
- •Joe points out the “Black Dragon Samurai” Zippo
- •They discuss Joe’s authentic samurai armor and the age of the sword
- •Quick curiosity about Sengoku Jidai timing
- 1:31 – 2:58
How Joe discovered Greg’s art—and how galleries can hold artists back
Joe recalls first seeing Greg’s striking Native portrait painting in a Salt Lake gallery and regretting not buying it in time. Greg explains how some galleries strategically limit exposure so artists don’t outgrow them, and how he navigated loyalty vs. recognition.
- •Joe describes the Buffalo-skull painting he missed buying
- •Greg explains galleries keeping work in the back room to control an artist’s growth
- •Discussion of pricing, leverage, and why artists leave galleries
- •Greg emphasizes loyalty to galleries that treated him well
- 2:58 – 3:46
A lifelong pull toward Native American culture and the appeal of “wildness”
Greg describes being captivated from childhood by books, photos, and Western painters like Russell and Remington. He explains how images of leaders like Sitting Bull and Geronimo represented a kind of freedom he felt modern systems suppress.
- •Early influence: books at grandparents’ house and classic Western art volumes
- •Greg’s fascination with historical photos and the intensity in their eyes
- •Native life as a symbol of power and not being trapped by systems
- •Joe and Greg discuss feeling ‘connected’ to a culture
- 3:46 – 7:14
Why tribal life can feel more human than modern work culture
Joe contrasts coerced integration into ‘progress’ with the spiritual pull many felt toward tribal living. They connect the idea of “tribe” to modern alienation—being stuck with coworkers rather than chosen community—and critique the abusive boss-employee dynamic.
- •Examples of people preferring tribal life after living it
- •Modern ‘tribes’ formed by employment rather than choice
- •Office power dynamics and ideological/political coercion
- •Office Space as a metaphor for modern life
- 7:14 – 11:08
School as indoctrination and escaping the standard career pipeline
Joe argues that schooling conditions kids for compliance, immobility, and rote learning rather than curiosity. Greg agrees and frames rebellion and outsider identity as part of how artists survive and build unconventional lives.
- •Critique of sitting still, fluorescent lights, and forced curricula
- •Learning through enjoyment vs. memorizing ‘nonsense’
- •Joe’s drive to make money outside regular jobs
- •Greg on rebellion/outcast energy feeding artistic success
- 11:08 – 15:17
Influencers, meaning, and why art ‘stops people in their tracks’
Joe and Greg discuss modern easy-money internet fame and the psychological cost of constant comparison. They pivot to what meaningful creative work does—using Greg’s large paintings (‘Dreamer,’ ‘Soul Catcher’) as examples of art that communicates without words.
- •Influencers as businesses with ‘nonsense’ products; timing and luck
- •Social media filters, status anxiety, and loss of meaning
- •Joe’s reactions to Greg’s paintings and how viewers respond in person
- •Art as wordless communication; cave art as a primal language
- 15:17 – 24:05
Cave art, altered states, and the UFO/Bigfoot belief problem
The discussion jumps from cave drawings with strange “helmet” figures into psychedelics, perception, and whether altered states reveal hidden realities. Joe lays out why extraordinary claims are hard: unreliable memory, attention-seeking incentives, and pattern formation—then they apply it to Bigfoot and UFO lore.
- •Recurring cave art motifs: hunters, animals, and ‘helmeted’ figures
- •Psychedelics as hallucination vs. expanded perception
- •Joe on memory distortion and how stories evolve with retelling
- •Bigfoot skepticism: lack of bones/trail-cam evidence; fear in the woods and misidentification
- 24:05 – 26:25
Greg’s mushroom story: tearing up money and rejecting ‘the system’
Greg recounts a youthful, chaotic night on mushrooms that turned into a symbolic rejection of money and the system. He frames those rebellious experiences as part of what shaped his willingness to bet on art despite criticism.
- •Early heavy mushroom use and a surreal night with friends
- •Ripping up money as a ‘system is bullshit’ epiphany (and regret later)
- •Greg connects early rebellion to later independence and artistic drive
- •Joe validates that breaking from corporate traps is often necessary
- 26:25 – 28:17
Working for OSHA, disturbing accident imagery, and a failed tattoo chapter
Greg explains he once did graphic work for OSHA, including editing gruesome workplace injury photos. He describes trying tattooing (and how apprenticeships work) after losing a contract post-9/11, before transitioning fully into fine art.
- •Greg’s federal work doing safety graphics and photo edits for OSHA
- •The reality of industrial accidents and ‘caught in machines’ footage
- •9/11 shifting budgets and losing a contract
- •Trying tattooing as a bridge before committing to fine art
- 28:17 – 33:42
The bar fight that got him fired: Muay Thai, judo, and street-fight consequences
Greg tells a wild story of a drunken confrontation where he accidentally high-kicked his manager while aiming for another guy, leading to being fired. Joe uses it to stress how street fights can turn lethal instantly, citing recent viral examples and the catastrophic fallout for everyone involved.
- •Greg’s accidental kick to his manager during a fight and immediate firing
- •Street-fight chaos: ground fighting, bystanders, and escalation
- •Joe’s warning: people die from single punches/head impacts
- •Example of vigilantism clips and why violence spirals fast
- 33:42 – 36:40
Misinformation, clickbait stats, and the historical propaganda behind weed laws
They pivot from viral fight clips to media incentives and statistical manipulation (e.g., ‘300% rise’ headlines). Joe details early 20th-century propaganda campaigns linking marijuana to racist fearmongering, driven by industrial competition (hemp vs. paper/nylon) and media power.
- •Clickbait framing and misleading percentage increases
- •Skepticism about modern media incentives and attention economy
- •Joe’s account of Hearst, DuPont, hemp, and early marijuana demonization
- •Broader point: narrative shaping by special interests has always existed
- 36:40 – 41:55
Lobbyists, exclusivity, and the ethics of selling art through galleries
Greg compares lobbying to conflicts of interest in the art world and explains how gallery contracts and exclusivity can work. They agree that if a collector discovers an artist through a gallery, routing the sale through the gallery is the ethical move—and that galleries matter as cultural infrastructure.
- •Greg’s childhood realization that lobbying undermines democracy
- •How gallery deals vary: exclusives, advances, and non-exclusive relationships
- •Ethics of referrals: honoring the gallery that provided discovery
- •Joe’s love of galleries and why society should encourage creating
- 41:55 – 59:34
Perspective, phones, horses, and animals: getting back to real life
They discuss depression, habits, and the importance of going outside, building community, and finding meaning beyond screens. Greg shares a near-disaster horse story from the Navajo reservation and they riff on the deep relational intelligence of horses and dogs.
- •Mental health basics: sleep, exercise, food, sunlight, and less phone time
- •Austin as a case study in choosing a ‘look for the good’ perspective
- •Greg’s runaway horse story and using grip strength/jujitsu to survive
- •Dogs’ empathy and sensitivity to real violence vs. play
- 59:34 – 1:16:19
UFO tech, Dyson spheres, AI ‘God,’ and time travel/singularity theories
The conversation escalates into speculative physics and future tech: interdimensional UFOs, back-engineering myths, Dyson spheres, and AI as an iterative path to godlike capability. They debate what time travel would mean for causality, touching on McKenna’s Timewave Zero and the I Ching.
- •Government drones vs. off-world craft; Roswell and transistor/fiber optics lore
- •Dyson sphere and Kardashev-style civilization scaling
- •AI as recursive self-improvement toward universe-creation powers
- •Time travel paradoxes, nonlinear time, singularity, McKenna/Timewave Zero and divination traditions
- 1:16:19 – 1:40:42
Solar storms, the Carrington Event, hypernovas, eclipses, and cosmic humility
Joe and Greg explore space threats and awe: coronal mass ejections, grid vulnerability, and the 1859 Carrington Event’s potential modern impact. They also discuss gamma ray bursts/hypernovas, the eerie perfection of Earth’s solar eclipses, and how new telescopes are rewriting cosmology.
- •How CMEs differ from light: delayed plasma impacts vs immediate radiation
- •Carrington Event (1859): telegraph fires and what it could mean today
- •Hypernovas/gamma-ray bursts as universe-scale catastrophes
- •Eclipse eeriness and the moon’s stabilizing role; Webb telescope findings challenging timelines
- 1:40:42 – 1:57:46
Painting Native history with respect: Crazy Horse, ritual endurance, and untold stories
Joe asks about the ethics of depicting Crazy Horse given the lack of verified photos and Crazy Horse’s avoidance of being photographed. Greg explains his research process, relationships with Lakota people, and the goal of honoring culture without flattening it—then they share lesser-known stories like William Weatherford (Red Eagle) and discuss upcoming Western adaptations.
- •Ethical questions around portraying Crazy Horse and ‘permission’ through community ties
- •Vision quests, Sun Dance endurance rituals, and the role of pain/fasting
- •Native histories often missing from school curricula; importance of accurate books and records
- •William Weatherford (Red Eagle) story; Taylor Sheridan adapting Empire of the Summer Moon; hope for Westerns’ return
