Joe Rogan Experience #2185 - Bob Gymlan

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) Yep. Okay. Salud, Bob.

Bob Gymlan 0:16 Salud.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Pleasure to meet you, man.

Bob Gymlan 0:20 Pleasure to meet you, too.

Joe Rogan 0:21 How'd you start doing this, uh, YouTube channel?

Bob Gymlan 0:24 Um, I've always, uh, enjoyed doing, talking about those things, 'cause who doesn't?

Joe Rogan 0:32 Right.

Bob Gymlan 0:33 And I was always kinda surprised at how shitty they are usually talked about. I just saw the shooting star.

Joe Rogan 0:41 (laughs) There it goes. Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 0:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:42 It'll trick you.

Bob Gymlan 0:43 Like, so often, you see this type of content. It's like, "Is there a monster in the woods?"

Joe Rogan 0:48 Right.

Bob Gymlan 0:49 And it's like, that's not the question. The question is more complex than that, and I often don't see it brought up that way.

Joe Rogan 0:58 There's something about these st- like today, I listened to the creepiest Bigfoot story one, that one that you had with the- the one where the guy wrote in a story about the Bigfoot-

Bob Gymlan 1:07 Burying stuff in the backyard?

Joe Rogan 1:09 Yeah, that one.

Bob Gymlan 1:10 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:10 And there's something about those that, like, even if you don't believe in Bigfoot, 'cause I n- don't necessarily believe in Bigfoot, there's something about it that's so compelling. There's something about things that you don't know out there in the woods that n- y- 'cause you don't have an accurate, a, a real good account of everything that's in the forest.

Bob Gymlan 1:32 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:33 You know, you look out there, it's dark. And the mind is always looking for some weirdness. The mind is always looking for something that n- s- other people don't know about, or perhaps there's, like, a secret that the sheriffs know about that they don't share with everybody else. Like, why is that so, why does that resonate so much with people? With Stephen King movies, like, or Stephen King books, it's like that kind of a thing. There's something about it that's, like, exciting.

Bob Gymlan 1:57 Right. Um, (laughs) I'm more of a Dean Koontz fan than Stephen King.

Joe Rogan 2:01 Oh, okay.

Bob Gymlan 2:01 To be-

Joe Rogan 2:02 Yeah, he's great, too.

Bob Gymlan 2:03 Yeah. Um.

Joe Rogan 2:04 You don't like Stephen King? Is that what you're try- you trying to throw shade?

Bob Gymlan 2:07 He's, his politics ruined it for me.

Joe Rogan 2:09 That's the problem, right?

Bob Gymlan 2:10 That's the problem.

Joe Rogan 2:11 His problem is his Twitter feed.

Bob Gymlan 2:12 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13 His Twitter feed's fucking brutal.

Bob Gymlan 2:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:14 It's like, dude, stop.

Bob Gymlan 2:16 Right. That's nuts.

Joe Rogan 2:17 These are, like, the goofiest, low testosterone boomer takes I've ever heard on anything. Like, stop.

Bob Gymlan 2:23 It's very true.

Joe Rogan 2:24 But he's such a brilliant writer. I also think, uh, he's a different guy, 'cause the car accident, I think that was a big one. You know, when you get hit by a, a van.

Bob Gymlan 2:35 That'll do it.

Joe Rogan 2:36 Yeah. Shit. He, he was really, really fucked up from that. And I also think it's getting off coke. Getting off coke and booze?

Bob Gymlan 2:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:43 That was the real Stephen King. I'm, like, I mean (sighs) , I hate to advocate alcoholism and, and cocaine use, 'cause, uh, I don't think either one of them is good for you. But goddamn, they're good for writing books.

Bob Gymlan 2:53 They're good for artistry, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan 2:55 There's something about his early stuff when he was off the rails. Like, he said he doesn't even remember writing Cujo.

Bob Gymlan 3:00 (laughs) That's-

Joe Rogan 3:01 Doesn't even remember it.

Bob Gymlan 3:02 ... that's my favorite book of his.

Joe Rogan 3:03 It's fucking great.

Bob Gymlan 3:04 I know.

Joe Rogan 3:04 It's a fucking great book. Um, so is The Shining. You know, it's another one where he was, like, deep in the throws of addiction and just writing this fucking captivating book. It just, what he captured is, there's this part of our mind that maybe we don't talk about too much, where we always wonder if everybody really knows what's going on, and maybe something could happen that people didn't expect, couldn't imagine is real. And yet, you're confronted by it, you know? And that's, like, a lot of his stories. And you do a really good job of finding that f- also, you have a creepy voice.

Bob Gymlan 3:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:45 N- no, no disrespect.

Bob Gymlan 3:47 No, I-

Joe Rogan 3:47 I mean in a good way.

Bob Gymlan 3:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Like, the way you tell the stories, you know? Like, it's just something about it, like ah.

Bob Gymlan 3:52 You know?

Joe Rogan 3:52 It's like, you're doing radio, man. You're doing radio with illustrations, but you're doing it on YouTube.

Bob Gymlan 3:58 Right. Well, that, yeah, that, that's actually why I chose the name Bob Gimlin, because I, I, you know, Bob Gimlin's obviously the guy who was there when the Patterson footage was shot.

Joe Rogan 4:07 Right.

Bob Gymlan 4:08 And it, it has, so (laughs) my Google account or my YouTube account name, way before I started the channel, was Bob Gimlin.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 4:16 And my real name is Brian Gagnon. And, uh, all I used YouTube for was Bigfoot content and like-

Joe Rogan 4:23 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 4:23 ... watching Bob Dylan rips. I'm a huge fan of Bob Dylan.

Joe Rogan 4:26 Oh, cool.

Bob Gymlan 4:27 So I thought Bob Gimlin was a cool name, and it kind of evokes back to, like, just a kinda Rod Serling-

Joe Rogan 4:34 Hmm.

Bob Gymlan 4:34 ... a little bit, just like a slower pace. 'Cause so much of the content in that was just like, "Top 10 creepiest sightings."

Joe Rogan 4:40 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 4:40 And it's like, whatever. It's like, I like to be a little more immersed.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Yes. You do it like radio. You do it like, uh, old school radio, like creepy radio.

Bob Gymlan 4:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:50 Like when they used to tell stories on like, uh, you know, people would sit, you know, p- before there was a television, people would sit around the radio and they would listen. Like, that's where War of the Worlds, that famous thing with H.G. Wells where he had a bunch of people believing that we're actually being invaded by Martians.

Bob Gymlan 5:06 In Fleetwood State?

Joe Rogan 5:08 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 5:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:08 Yeah. So the, when did you start this channel?

Bob Gymlan 5:12 I think like nine years ago, 2016 maybe.

Joe Rogan 5:16 And was it, the beginning, was it Bigfoot?

Bob Gymlan 5:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:19 Have you ever had an encounter?

Bob Gymlan 5:20 No.

Joe Rogan 5:20 Or is it just something that's been-

Bob Gymlan 5:21 No.

Joe Rogan 5:21 ... fascinating to you?

Bob Gymlan 5:22 It's just always been interesting. But, so I think my talent, and I'm not even saying I'm talented, but my, what I have going for me, um, is I am so ready to believe that everything we know is BS. Like, people don't know anything. They just don't. I mean, people know stuff, but so much of what has been in history books is already wrong.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 5:45 You know, so like, have you ever seen a chimpanzee?

Joe Rogan 5:48 Yes.

Bob Gymlan 5:48 Like, would it surprise you to learn that, like, oh, there's a smarter one, there's a faster one, there's a bigger one? Like if, if someone, if a Bigfoot got hit by a bus tomorrow, like, I wouldn't be surprised.

Joe Rogan 5:59 You wouldn't be?

Bob Gymlan 5:59 No, no. I, well-

Joe Rogan 6:01 I mean, I- yes.

Bob Gymlan 6:01 I would be terribly surprised.

Joe Rogan 6:03 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 6:03 Really?

Joe Rogan 6:03 Yes. Yeah. I don't know if they're real, but I think they might be real. This is what I think. I have a very strange take on this, and I know it's gonna sound super stupid to anybody who's, like, cynical, pragmatist, but just bear with me for a moment. I think... The boundaries between this dimension and other ones are permeable. And I have a feeling things can cross through them, and I have a feeling we are like... If an ant is wa- like, I have leafcutter ants in my yard, pretty wild, so cool to watch them. It sucks because they kill all your trees, but so cool to watch this long train of these incredible little beings carrying around these giant pieces of leaf that they cut off, um, and they're all going into their little house, but you wave your hand over them, they have no fucking idea you're there. Like, whatever senses they have, it does not seem to detect threats from things above. They don't seem to be worried.

Bob Gymlan 7:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:09 You know, they- they don't, they don't perceive us.

Bob Gymlan 7:12 Well, they're mission-oriented.

Joe Rogan 7:13 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 7:13 And we are too. So if something is happening that's beyond our mission, I think it's hard to perceive it.

Joe Rogan 7:18 I think there's things that exist that are not perceivable.

Bob Gymlan 7:22 Oh, I- I'm one million percent in that camp too.

Joe Rogan 7:26 And I think there's heightened states of consciousness that people achieve under duress, extreme stress, fear. I think that's one of the reasons why a lot of them happen at nighttime. I think nighttime, it- it automatically fills people with a certain sense of anxiety and- and fear because you don't know what's out there when you're w- especially in the woods at nighttime. And I think in those times, when your mind reaches this unusual chemical state, you occasionally can access these- these other realities, and I think that's where Bigfoot is real. I know it sounds goofy.

Bob Gymlan 8:02 No, I mean, that's-

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Bob Gymlan 9:24 Yeah, well-

Joe Rogan 9:25 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 9:26 But see, even if it was real, that- they- I wouldn't expect them to find it either.

Joe Rogan 9:30 No, that show's just goofy.

Bob Gymlan 9:31 Or even if it was flesh and blood. It's funny you would say what you said because when I first started my channel, I was very flesh-and-blood type. I thought it was a very real thing, like a- just a bear or anything else in the woods. But a lot of comment- commentators said, "Though I appreciate Bob's take on that," um, "he will get to the woo-woo side or the spiritual side."

Joe Rogan 9:52 Mm.

Bob Gymlan 9:52 And I was like, "I am not," and I'm, like, halfway there already.

Joe Rogan 9:55 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 9:55 But I don't think that- I- I don't think that the spiritualism can be separated from anything.

Joe Rogan 10:01 How so? What do you mean by that?

Bob Gymlan 10:03 I mean, we're- I think we're spiritual beings, and I think that we're interacting with... Like, kind of like the Force from Star Wars.

Joe Rogan 10:13 Mm.

Bob Gymlan 10:13 Like, I- I- I- I believe reality is permeable to an extent. Um, yeah, I mean, the- the things that we see with our eyes and feel with our- that we touch, it's- there's more than that.

Joe Rogan 10:26 It's a fraction.

Bob Gymlan 10:27 Right?

Joe Rogan 10:27 It's a fraction of what's going on. I think so too. I think, you know, um, I think that's- that's probably the source of whatever psychic phenomenon that is real, that's not bullshit and just a bunch of people- a bunch of hucksters robbing people. I think there's some- I think there's some sort of telepathic connection that people share occasionally, and I think it's an emerging aspect of human consciousness that will probably one day be as normal as hearing. I think we're just emerging from the primal. And I think also in the primal, they probably have it. They probably have it in a different way. Like, animals are tuned in in a very bizarre way. They just know things sometimes. And you don't know why they know things, 'cause it's not- you're not even saying... Like, my dog sometimes knows when we're gonna go for a run.

Bob Gymlan 11:20 Right. I've-

Joe Rogan 11:20 He just knows it.

Bob Gymlan 11:22 I've always been fascinated by how, um, animals, so many animals seem to innately know that we can help them.

Joe Rogan 11:29 Yes.

Bob Gymlan 11:29 And I- I- they shouldn't think that.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Right.

Bob Gymlan 11:32 You know, historically we are not the helper of animals.

Joe Rogan 11:34 Right.

Bob Gymlan 11:35 And, like, you know, be it dolphins or seals or whatever.

Joe Rogan 11:37 Or deer even.

Bob Gymlan 11:38 Deer. Yeah, they're just like-

Joe Rogan 11:39 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 11:39 ... "I'm hurt, help." And it's like, shouldn't they be afraid of the predator?

Joe Rogan 11:41 Deer have con- tried to contact people to get one of their friends free from barbed wire.

Bob Gymlan 11:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:47 Yeah. There's something weird. There's something weird going on that is not just as simple as we're the dominant species, we have language, we figured out consciousness, we write books. No, I think there's- there's- there's another thing that we just don't-... it's not there yet. You know, it's just like the original cavemen had some grunts, and those grunts became words, and now those words become huge libraries filled with books that people have written. And I think that's what's going on with human consciousness. And I think there's just gotta be some reason why this Bigfoot thing has been going on for so goddamn long. I think it's an interdimensional existence. I think whatever that thing is, I think it comes back and forth, and that's why you don't find anything.

Bob Gymlan 12:35 Yeah. I mean, that's... As I said, I'm getting there.

Joe Rogan 12:39 You're getting there?

Bob Gymlan 12:40 Getting there.

Joe Rogan 12:41 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 12:41 I mean, I... 'Cause as I said earlier, like, to me, the flesh and blood ape hypothesis is not as impractical as everyone says.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Well, it used to be a real thing, for sure. The problem is the size of it. You know, you can't really hide a 10-foot gorilla.

Bob Gymlan 12:56 Why?

Joe Rogan 12:57 Why?

Bob Gymlan 12:58 But-

Joe Rogan 12:58 Because t-

Bob Gymlan 12:58 ... but.

Joe Rogan 12:58 ... too many trail cams, too many campers, hikers, hunters, especially. Especially, um-

Bob Gymlan 13:04 Well, it's not like people don't see it. People see it all the time.

Joe Rogan 13:06 Yeah, hunters don't see them. No. No, but m- my friends... I have a lot of friends that are, like, long-range backpack hunters. These guys will go 26, 27 miles into the forest with no access roads. They just hike out.

Bob Gymlan 13:19 But do hunters not-

Joe Rogan 13:20 (clears throat)

Bob Gymlan 13:20 ... see them, or do hunters not say they saw it?

Joe Rogan 13:22 No, I don't know anybody who's seen them. Um...

Bob Gymlan 13:25 No?

Joe Rogan 13:25 They'll tell you all kinds of other wild shit.

Bob Gymlan 13:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:28 But they would tell you if they saw it. They're, they're... None of them are... None of them believe, that I know. But they, they are wary about animals, you know? There, there's real threats out there. There's grizzlies, there's wolves, there's-

Bob Gymlan 13:41 Sure.

Joe Rogan 13:41 ... mountain lions. Those are the things they're really worried about, and those are the things that they see. And I... You know, I've had friends that have had encounters with them, and even those encounters seem, in some sort of weird way, spiritual. Like, there's a weird connection with these predators and prey that I think opens up a part of us that we don't ever experience. You don't ever experience a thing that wants to eat you. And when you do, I think your biology is like, "Oh, you remember this?"

Bob Gymlan 14:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:09 And, like, a switch gets turned on, and these genes that we've had inside of our body for hundreds of thousands of years of us running away from predators, they get ignited. And there's this bizarre connection. Have you ever, like, looked in the eyes of a predator?

Bob Gymlan 14:24 I sure have.

Joe Rogan 14:25 What have you seen?

Bob Gymlan 14:27 Um, well, I worked at a zoo, um, Brookfield Zoo in Chicago, for quite a few years. And, uh, it was just t- this Christmas, um, we went there. And, uh, the lion was roaring, going nuts. And I have footage of this I can actually show you later. But it was very close, and it was roaring, and it looked like it was gonna pounce, and I had no faith that that little barrier was enough. And I've, I've literally worked at the place, and I know, like, there are fail-safes and stuff that they can't get out, but I was just like, "Nope, this is nuts." 'Cause, you know, I, I love cats, big cats too. And, uh... Like, have you ever... Do, do you have a cat?

Joe Rogan 15:04 (clicks tongue) I don't anymore, but I've had cats, yeah.

Bob Gymlan 15:05 Okay, like, just watching them, and now imagining that they are bigger than you- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:11 Oh, dude.

Bob Gymlan 15:11 ... is so horrifying.

Joe Rogan 15:12 I saw my first large mountain lion two years ago.

Bob Gymlan 15:15 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 15:16 It was big.

Bob Gymlan 15:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:17 Like, about 170-plus pounds. And, uh, my friend Colton saw it under a tree. We were driving, luckily. We were inside the truck, 'cause it was only about 30 yards away. I would've shit my pants if I saw this thing without a barrier between us. It was so big. It was so big and so terr... It looked like a demon. Like, when you lock eyes with that thing... And again, I'm looking at it through a windshield, and also binoculars.

Bob Gymlan 15:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:41 So I had, uh, 10-power binoculars, and I'm zoomed into its face. And I'm seeing it, like, just looking right at me with this pumpkin head, this bi- the big mandible muscles-

Bob Gymlan 15:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:53 ... that go over the top of the skull. It's like, "Oh, Christ." And again, I'm looking at it through a windshield and binoculars, so I'm removed slightly from the, uh, the actual force of the experience of its eyeballs on me. But if I was standing there just looking at it, I probably would've had a psychedelic experience.

Bob Gymlan 16:08 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:09 I probably would've tripped out. I probably would've, I probably would've gone into shock. I saw a grizzly bear once in, um, in Alberta. I saw one of those. And not even a big one. About a six-foot grizzly bear. But it looks at you s... I've seen black bears before. That was the first grizzly I saw in the wild. And they look right through you.

Bob Gymlan 16:28 Yeah, that's the s... To me, and I've only seen footage of grizzly bears, but every once in a while, they have, like, this crackhead look, where it's like they're, they're doing that thing where they're looking to see what you got.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 16:38 Like, they're just like, "What can I take from this?"

Joe Rogan 16:40 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 16:40 And they... You can't do anything to stop them unless you have a gun.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Yeah, we had guns, luck- luckily.

Bob Gymlan 16:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:45 We had shotguns. But we... When we were looking at it, it looked like it's gonna eat you. It looks like, "Am I gonna eat you?" Like, it looked like it, uh, couldn't care less if you live or die.

Bob Gymlan 16:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:59 And, uh, like, just all it's doing all day long is searching for something slow, something with a limp, something that fucks up, something that leaves behind a kid, something that... You know, a dog's chained up to a tree. Whoops, got one.

Bob Gymlan 17:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:13 And that's all it's doing all day long, and it's just a big monster. And if it didn't exist, if a grizzly bear didn't exist, and there was reports of this enormous dog-like creature that eats everything and can kill a moose and lives in the woods, it would be way scarier than Bigfoot.

Bob Gymlan 17:30 Yeah, for sure. Well, maybe.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Oh!

Bob Gymlan 17:32 Maybe not.

Joe Rogan 17:33 A Kodiak?

Bob Gymlan 17:34 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 17:34 Kodiak bear would be scarier than Bigfoot.

Bob Gymlan 17:38 N- the, the worst things can happen than be eaten.

Joe Rogan 17:41 Oh, like the Come for Me Bigfoot books?

Bob Gymlan 17:44 G- No.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Do you know about those books?

Bob Gymlan 17:45 No.

Joe Rogan 17:45 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 17:45 Well, I've, I've... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:48 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 17:48 Yeah, obviously I've heard of them.

Joe Rogan 17:50 There's a whole genre-

Bob Gymlan 17:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:51 ... of erotica written about Bigfoot.

Bob Gymlan 17:53 Yeah. That's not my thing.

Joe Rogan 17:55 Well, you're a man.

Bob Gymlan 17:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:57 Uh, it seems to be ladies like the, um... They like their stuff in writ- writing.... that's what they like. They like reading their pornography.

Bob Gymlan 18:07 Yeah, they also like monsters.

Joe Rogan 18:08 Yes. Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 18:09 Like, yeah, werewolves and vampires.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Vampires, they like vampires, they fall in love with them.

Bob Gymlan 18:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:13 Yeah. He's, he's gonna eat everybody else but, uh, not me.

Bob Gymlan 18:15 But you can change them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:16 Yeah, you can change them. That's also why some crazy ladies like serial killers.

Bob Gymlan 18:21 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 18:22 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 18:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:22 Even serial killers that kill a bunch of women-

Bob Gymlan 18:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:24 ... they write to them.

Bob Gymlan 18:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:25 Like Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker-

Bob Gymlan 18:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:27 ... like, tons of women were writing to him in jail.

Bob Gymlan 18:29 Ted Bundy too?

Joe Rogan 18:30 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 18:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:32 Yeah. Strange.

Bob Gymlan 18:33 I'm a big fan of True Crime, so I, you know, I don't, I'm not sexually aroused by it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:37 Well, congratulations.

Bob Gymlan 18:38 Isn't that... That's a good thing, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:39 That is a very good thing.

Bob Gymlan 18:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:41 Um, but there... The thing about predators versus, like, Bigfoot or any of these things, like, there, there seems to be... (sighs) The unknown animals, for whatever reason, are the ones that are most perplexing to us, the ones we're most fascinated by. Like, an orca, I think, is more fascinating than Bigfoot. Like, if Bigfoot was just Gigantopithecus, if it was just an enormous orangutan-looking creature that lived in the woods and was omnivorous and, and ate a bunch of stuff and tried to hide from people, it'd be kind of cool. But it wouldn't really be as cool as this insanely intelligent super dolphin-

Bob Gymlan 19:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:19 ... that lives in the ocean and, you know, has this strong family bond and, you know-

Bob Gymlan 19:24 Teach their different styles of dispatching prey.

Joe Rogan 19:27 Uh-huh, yeah, teach them how to knock over ice shelves to get a seal to slide off.

Bob Gymlan 19:32 Oh, that seal footage is so tragic, where it's waving it down. If-

Joe Rogan 19:35 Oh. Yeah, it sucks for the seal.

Bob Gymlan 19:36 You're rooting for the seal, but...

Joe Rogan 19:38 You're rooting for him, but you know he's doomed.

Bob Gymlan 19:40 I, I keep wondering, uh, 'cause you know how orcas are going after boats now?

Joe Rogan 19:44 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 19:44 None of them have, of the people that I'm aware of, have successfully gotten in the water. So I keep wondering what they would do to the people.

Joe Rogan 19:52 I don't think there's any record of them killing human beings other than human beings in, uh, like, SeaWorld-

Bob Gymlan 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 ... and stuff like that. But that's just...

Bob Gymlan 20:00 Would there be a record? Or...

Joe Rogan 20:02 It's a good question. Um, there would if there were survivors, and there's a lot of record of shark attacks, obviously.

Bob Gymlan 20:08 Well, those are... Don't listen... I don't give any mind to those, uh, the records of shark attacks.

Joe Rogan 20:14 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 20:14 Do you know h-... Well, it is so hard to report a shark attack. So, like, if I go swimming-

Joe Rogan 20:20 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 20:20 ... right, and I leave my stuff on the beach, and I... Someone calls the police, they don't... I didn't come home or whatever-

Joe Rogan 20:27 Right.

Bob Gymlan 20:27 ... and they find me mangled on the beach the next day, I had a cardiac event and then was scavenged by sharks.

Joe Rogan 20:34 You think so?

Bob Gymlan 20:35 I'm positive. That's how the, um, ISAF, International Shark Attack File, it's, it's very difficult for a shark attack victim to be reported.

Joe Rogan 20:45 That's interesting. Do you think they do that so that they discourage people becoming vigilantes and going out and killing sharks?

Bob Gymlan 20:54 They're, they're trying to make it seem li-... I think it's legit, uh, like a Jaws thing. They want... They don't wanna make it seem dangerous.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Right.

Bob Gymlan 21:01 But it-

Joe Rogan 21:01 They don't wanna s-... Make it seem like it's a bad place for tourists.

Bob Gymlan 21:04 Right. I would not go into the ocean where there are sharks. And I know that sounds nuts, but I wouldn't. It's not worth it.

Joe Rogan 21:09 My buddy, Duncan, was in, uh, Hawaii either just after, I can't remember, or just before a guy got killed by a shark at the same resort that he was at.

Bob Gymlan 21:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:18 Some guy was swimming, and a tiger shark just took him out.

Bob Gymlan 21:20 No, that's the... I'm actually working on a shark attack video now. Um, I was just... There's, there's a lot of untruths people talk about with sharks, I think, or may- maybe misunderstandings.

Joe Rogan 21:32 They just caught a bull shark in Texas in a river.

Bob Gymlan 21:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:35 Like, real recently. And th- those are the scary ones.

Bob Gymlan 21:38 They are. But-

Joe Rogan 21:39 'Cause th- those fuckers are super aggressive, and they go into freshwater all the way up to Illinois.

Bob Gymlan 21:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:43 They found them in Illinois.

Bob Gymlan 21:44 Alton, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:47 Yeah. So you're deep in this.

Bob Gymlan 21:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:48 So, um, so you think it's a Jaws thing. So they're just trying to not... What do you think ever happened with that Egyptian one? The Egyptian one's the craziest one. You ever see that footage with the guys, like, screaming for his father?

Bob Gymlan 22:00 Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:01 Ugh.

Bob Gymlan 22:01 That's brutal. Well, 'cause... So, again, did you know that the shark that did that, like, paraded the head around?

Joe Rogan 22:06 (inhales deeply)

Bob Gymlan 22:07 Yeah, like, and it... So that's one of the things that I said is misinformation or... (sighs) I hate that I'm using that word. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:13 Yeah, that word's been tainted.

Bob Gymlan 22:14 Yeah, that word's been tainted. But, um, so they say it's, like, mistaken identity or i-... Sharks attack 'cause they're pissed.

Joe Rogan 22:26 That's why they attack?

Bob Gymlan 22:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 22:27 They're not just hungry?

Bob Gymlan 22:28 Correct. Um, I... That would... I mean, I can't be certain, but that would be my opinion. Um, 'cause do you remember, like, when we were... Or, I remember when I was a kid, I saw all these, uh, shark documentaries that they would show, like, the surfer and then a ter- sea turtle or a seal side by side.

Joe Rogan 22:45 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 22:45 And, like, from the bottom, these are... They don't look the same at all.

Joe Rogan 22:47 No.

Bob Gymlan 22:48 And sharks are one big sensory organ. They know... And, like, you know, where they hang out, they hang out at the bottom. They can... And then they're silhouetted, uh, by light from the top. They can see perfectly. They're in the-

Joe Rogan 22:57 Right.

Bob Gymlan 22:57 ... water all their lives. They're one big sensory organ. They know what they're attacking. And I think they want people out of their water. 'Cause that wasn't even a consumption with that guy, with, um, the guy who was yelling, "Papa," um-

Joe Rogan 23:10 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 23:10 ... whatever his name was.

Joe Rogan 23:11 While Stand By Me was sing- playing in the background.

Bob Gymlan 23:13 And that woman, "Oh, my God. Oh, my God."

Joe Rogan 23:15 It seems like a movie.

Bob Gymlan 23:17 Yeah, it does. And, and th- and then, yeah, 'cause... A, you're, you know the part where it turns him underwater and his legs go up?

Joe Rogan 23:24 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Bob Gymlan 23:24 It took off his jaw, because after that it's blah, it's, he's, he's gargling it.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 23:31 Yeah, and, uh...

Joe Rogan 23:33 Uh, Popov's body was reportedly examined by forensic experts at a morgue in Hurghada, who claimed he was disfigured and with many parts missing. The shark's said to have torn his head off, disfigured his face, and separated body parts that were r- retrieved from the sea. It's also reported the beast ripped apart his chest and ate parts of his abdomen and hands.

Bob Gymlan 23:55 See, that's not an attempt to predate, in my opinion.

Joe Rogan 23:58 Interesting. So you think that people get in the way of fish and seals, and that's probably what the sharks actually wanna eat?

Bob Gymlan 24:05 Sure, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:05 And they... Like, "These assholes are flopping around and farting in the water, and...

Bob Gymlan 24:09 ... and, or, or if she just had pups nearby. If there's anything like that.

Joe Rogan 24:15 Um, there was also the story that I read about that particular attack where they were saying that, um, some ranchers had dumped sheep carcasses.

Bob Gymlan 24:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:26 Did you hear about that?

Bob Gymlan 24:27 Yeah. I still don't think that that ... Sharks know what they're biting. See, 'cause if a shark bite, har- bites something hard, it really damages them. They know what they bite before they bite it.

Joe Rogan 24:39 Hmm.

Bob Gymlan 24:39 And I, I, I, I agree that sharks don't see us as food, that we ... Sometimes they do if they're desperate. But I do not ... I think we're far from ideal, 'cause if they did eat us, they would eat us all the time.

Joe Rogan 24:50 Right.

Bob Gymlan 24:50 All the time.

Joe Rogan 24:51 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 24:51 So I think ... 'Cause like, you know how great whites in California don't eat people?

Joe Rogan 24:56 Right.

Bob Gymlan 24:57 They only attack people, 'cause we're literally in the surf where seals like to be.

Joe Rogan 25:03 So we're in the way.

Bob Gymlan 25:04 Right. And they know that seals probably don't like to play around where surfers are.

Joe Rogan 25:07 Ah.

Bob Gymlan 25:08 So they're like, "Oh, these things are here and I'm hungry. If these things are gone ..." And they know that if they come up and mangle someone, the rest of the people are gonna be gone.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Right. It'll clear the area for a while.

Bob Gymlan 25:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:18 Is this your own personal theory?

Bob Gymlan 25:19 Oh, no. (laughs) Um, there's an amazing channel called Sharks Happen.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Hmm.

Bob Gymlan 25:24 Um, and it's so funny too 'cause the guy, he's not a marine biologist or anything. His n- name is just Hal. He's a machinist in Michigan, and it's so funny 'cause I get ... I fundamentally think he knows more about sharks than anyone that I've listened to. And I think it's funny how some guy in Michigan is the, the expert.

Joe Rogan 25:42 That is funny.

Bob Gymlan 25:42 No?

Joe Rogan 25:43 Yeah. Like, how are you getting your information, bro? (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 25:47 H- he's good at ... He goes back on newspapers and ... 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 25:50 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 25:50 ... you know, to him, um, all the marine biologists are just so full of it. And, and there is some of that. There really is, like, 'cause they will skew something so far to, to not blame the sharks.

Joe Rogan 26:02 Really?

Bob Gymlan 26:03 Yeah, like this kid, um, probably like 20 years ago now, uh, had his leg ripped off by a bull shark, um, which is terrifying to think 'cause it, like, clamped onto his calf and then it (imitates chomping) in shallow water and his leg came off not where it was bit.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 26:18 So it, like, ripped it off.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 26:20 And, uh, I can't recall his name, but that was not in the shark stats as, uh ... That was in the shark stats as provoked because the kid was fishing earlier.

Joe Rogan 26:31 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 26:32 So it's like that's a, that's a provoked attack. It's like-

Joe Rogan 26:34 So fishing is a provoked attack?

Bob Gymlan 26:36 Being in, be- being like a seven-year-old in knee-deep water after someone was fishing is a provoked attack.

Joe Rogan 26:41 That's crazy.

Bob Gymlan 26:42 And that's not in the stats the same way. So, like, that's not an-

Joe Rogan 26:44 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 26:44 ... a shark attack thing.

Joe Rogan 26:46 Interesting. So there's shark attacks where there's no possible evidence of provocation, and then there's provoked shark attacks like, "Oh, you were asking for it?"

Bob Gymlan 26:54 Correct.

Joe Rogan 26:55 Wow.

Bob Gymlan 26:55 Yeah, and that, that's the video I'm working on. I go through all the attacks in 2015, and I say like, okay, these are ... I think it was like n- Uh, I hope I'm not wrong about this, but like 11 or 12 attacks that, um, they say are legit attacks because they were unprovoked. They were like random attacks. But then I talk about the other like 20 that were provoked attacks.

Joe Rogan 27:18 And so when you see shark attack statistics, they only say unprovoked attacks?

Bob Gymlan 27:22 Correct.

Joe Rogan 27:23 So they're trying to downplay shark attack numbers.

Bob Gymlan 27:25 Correct. And, and as I said, there are so many people who, like, just get found bitten up and like, "Oh, they drowned."

Joe Rogan 27:30 Pshew.

Bob Gymlan 27:31 And they got scavenged 'cause sharks are scavengers and sharks don't eat people.

Joe Rogan 27:34 That's so crazy.

Bob Gymlan 27:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:36 That's interesting. I never really thought about that.

Bob Gymlan 27:37 Yeah. The, the, the, those attacks are very skewed.

Joe Rogan 27:40 It's very fascinating to me how, uh, our attitude about sharks changed with the whole shark fin soup thing. Like all of a sudden, everybody wanted to protect sharks.

Bob Gymlan 27:50 Look-

Joe Rogan 27:50 Like, you shouldn't fish for sharks. Like, you shouldn't eat sharks 'cause, you know, mako shark has always been, uh, served in restaurants. I've had mako shark-

Bob Gymlan 27:58 Sure.

Joe Rogan 27:58 ... a bunch of times in restaurants. It's very good. It tastes like swordfish. But suddenly, sharks were supposed to be protected. Like, Jesus, shouldn't we protect the fucking tuna? (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 28:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:08 Like, tuna are delicious. They don't kill you. They're majestic, amazing creatures and we've killed like 90% of them in the ocean.

Bob Gymlan 28:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:15 I mean, fuck sharks. That's what I think.

Bob Gymlan 28:18 I mean, I love sharks. I, I just-

Joe Rogan 28:20 Me too, but fuck them.

Bob Gymlan 28:20 Yeah, I mean, they're assholes.

Joe Rogan 28:21 Yeah, they, they can go fuck off. Um, there's an area in Key West where, uh, people fish off the piers where you have to pull in your fish so fast because the waters are infested with sharks.

Bob Gymlan 28:34 Well, that's a whole problem now with sharks because they're learning it's easier to pull it off our hooks.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 28:39 You know?

Joe Rogan 28:39 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 28:39 Which makes sense.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Sure, they ... So they hang around piers for people to fish, and then when someone catches a big one and it takes a while to get in, like, "Oh, here we go." Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, krrr. (imitates music)

Bob Gymlan 28:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:50 It's, uh ... There's an incredible video of, uh, this guy is pulling in a tuna, and as he's pulling in a tuna, this great white cuts the tuna in half. Have you seen that?

Bob Gymlan 28:59 I have seen that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:02 (gasps)

Bob Gymlan 29:02 And, you know, there have been people swallowed alive by great sh- white sharks.

Joe Rogan 29:05 Geez.

Bob Gymlan 29:06 No?

Joe Rogan 29:07 Look, they're, they're real, and if they weren't, they would be the craziest monster ever. We have this very bizarre thing with the human mind where we become accustomed to things.

Bob Gymlan 29:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:17 You know, we're accustomed to cellphones. You show a cellphone to a guy in 1400s, he thinks you're a wizard, you know?

Bob Gymlan 29:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:22 And with us, it's like, "Oh, that one sucks. You got a small phone." (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 29:26 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:26 You know? But there's, there's something bizarre where we get accustomed to these insane creatures, like sharks.

Bob Gymlan 29:33 I often think that, that 'cause, you know, there are so many creatures right now that I would give anything to be able to see that are, you know, that are extinct.

Joe Rogan 29:40 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 29:41 And ... But there are probably so many alive right now that if they were extinct, I would wish I could see them, but I take them for granted that they're not extinct.

Joe Rogan 29:48 Oh, yeah, for sure.

Bob Gymlan 29:49 The giraffe-

Joe Rogan 29:50 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 29:50 ... I think is one of them.

Joe Rogan 29:51 Right.

Bob Gymlan 29:51 If I, if I saw a giraffe, I'd be ... Or like the s- the fossil or skeleton of one, I'd be like, "I wonder what that thing looked like."

Joe Rogan 29:56 Well, I found out about your page because, uh, I saw the video about the 50-foot crocodile in the Congo. And, um, as a person who's ... I've always been obsessed with crocodiles.

Bob Gymlan 30:08 Okay.

Joe Rogan 30:09 I, I think they're ... You know, one of-... one of the coolest animals that ever has existed, and the fact that they're with us right now. And you get to see this insane creature that can go without eating for a year.

Bob Gymlan 30:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:22 Lays completely still in six inches of water and then explodes and pulls a zebra into the water.

Bob Gymlan 30:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:28 They're just amazing. They're amazing, and they're, they're so fucking big, man.

Bob Gymlan 30:34 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:35 They're s- like that alligator that we have out there that you saw in the lobby.

Bob Gymlan 30:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:38 That's, uh, 14 feet.

Bob Gymlan 30:39 Yeah, that's not even a big alli- I mean, it's a big alligator, but it's not a-

Joe Rogan 30:42 It's a big alligator. But it's not a big crocodile.

Bob Gymlan 30:44 No.

Joe Rogan 30:44 It's a little baby crocodile.

Bob Gymlan 30:46 It's not a huge alligator.

Joe Rogan 30:47 No.

Bob Gymlan 30:47 No.

Joe Rogan 30:48 No, like what is the biggest alligator that have ever g- I think it's 20 feet, right?

Bob Gymlan 30:52 19 f- 19 feet, nine inches.

Joe Rogan 30:53 Oh, okay. Where, is that a Florida alligator?

Bob Gymlan 30:56 I wanna say it was Alabama.

Joe Rogan 30:58 Really?

Bob Gymlan 30:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:58 No shit. Alabama, that's interesting. Yeah, like, um, it's all up in that whole area.

Bob Gymlan 31:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:05 Like Louisiana has a bunch of 'em. Texas has a bunch of 'em. Northern Texas has started to show alligators. There was a sighting yesterday actually. Th- there was a video that these guys took of these two alligators swimming in a lake in northern Texas. People are like, "What the fuck are they doing up here?"

Bob Gymlan 31:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:21 They're expanding. When I was a kid, I lived in Gainesville, Florida from when I was 11 till I was 13. And, uh, Gainesville had a lot of alligators. Uh, it's like where the University of Florida is.

Bob Gymlan 31:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:32 And, uh, there's a place called, um ... God, what is it called? Lake Alice I think it is. And that's where the alligators used to be. And I remember when I was there, this lady, she got her, her little dog got eaten. She's walking her little dog by the water, and it just jumped out of the water and snatched her dog, and everybody was freaked out. Like, "What the fuck? It ate her dog."

Bob Gymlan 31:51 Mm-hmm. Have you seen that footage of the alligator that grabs that woman's dog, and then she tries to go in after it and it gives up the dog and takes her?

Joe Rogan 31:58 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 31:58 Yeah, that's pretty brutal.

Joe Rogan 32:00 Very brutal, yeah. They target people.

Bob Gymlan 32:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:03 Yeah, they don't target people as much as crocodiles do, but they definitely do. They eat people. And they're everywhere.

Bob Gymlan 32:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:09 There's, there's so many of 'em in Florida. They're just infested. And they were protected when I was a kid.

Bob Gymlan 32:15 I know, that's th- uh, there's, there's this great clip I found a long time ago online about ... It's like from the '70s, and it's this woman talking about, like, how this might be the last alligator we ever see.

Joe Rogan 32:26 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 32:27 'Cause, like, they're, they're trying to make it seem so endangered, and it's like, "I don't think so."

Joe Rogan 32:30 They thought they were, and I wonder why. I wonder why they thought they were, and I wonder what kind of an accurate accounting of the animals in the Everglades they had.

Bob Gymlan 32:40 I don't think we could. I mean, with poison we probably could, but I don't think there's any feasible way to exterminate alligators even if we tried, which we weren't.

Joe Rogan 32:47 Well, certainly not now. Um, I wonder if maybe the ecosystem was better in check before people came along. Like, you know, when you think about Florida, so, right, Florida, I think, was the first ever city in the country. Is that correct?

Bob Gymlan 33:04 I believe it's Saint Augustine maybe.

Joe Rogan 33:06 Yeah, I think you're right. So, that's where, you know, that's where, uh, la ba- uh, Cabeza de Vaca landed. He landed in Florida, right? It was when he made his trek across the country. And so it's a, a long ... I mean, it's, there's hundreds of years of people living there. But cities don't really emerge. Like, that kind of Florida life, when does that?

Bob Gymlan 33:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:31 Like, when does Miami emerge? You know, when does, uh, when, when do, when do you start seeing cities? Like the early 1900s?

Bob Gymlan 33:38 What? I mean, no.

Joe Rogan 33:40 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 33:40 It's gotta be-

Joe Rogan 33:41 Earlier than that?

Bob Gymlan 33:41 ... earlier than that, yeah. Well depend, I mean, modern-

Joe Rogan 33:43 Yeah, but what does it look like? You know what I'm saying? Like, when does it start fucking with the habitat of-

Bob Gymlan 33:47 Oh.

Joe Rogan 33:48 ... of the alligators. 'Cause a lot of Miami they actually filled in.

Bob Gymlan 33:52 Right. 'Cause they-

Joe Rogan 33:52 Yeah, a lot-

Bob Gymlan 33:53 ... they gotta drain the swamps.

Joe Rogan 33:54 Right. (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 33:56 Yeah. Said the thing.

Joe Rogan 33:56 Legitimately. And, uh, they had to, I don't know how the fuck they even did it, but that's the real concern about if the ocean level rises. Like, a lot of stuff's super porous. It's just gonna flood all that area.

Bob Gymlan 34:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:09 But, I wonder, like, how much of an impact human beings had. Like, maybe there was the Florida panther. There was a lot of d- ... And then also back then, there was no snakes, right? So right now, not n- ... No snakes, but no pythons.

Bob Gymlan 34:22 Oh.

Joe Rogan 34:23 Burmese pythons.

Bob Gymlan 34:24 Correct, yep.

Joe Rogan 34:24 Which are, uh-

Bob Gymlan 34:25 Invasive.

Joe Rogan 34:25 ... invasive species that ... Apparently there's two sources. One of them is pets, and the other one was there was a research center that got hit by a storm and they, they lost a bunch of pythons.

Bob Gymlan 34:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:36 Which is kind of hilarious.

Bob Gymlan 34:37 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:38 And also, um, Nile crocodiles. There's Nile crocodiles in the Everglades now.

Bob Gymlan 34:42 Really? I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 34:43 Yeah, there's a breeding population, they think.

Bob Gymlan 34:44 Wow.

Joe Rogan 34:46 They think they ... Well, they've, they've already found several, and they have shoot on sight orders for, for Nile crocodiles.

Bob Gymlan 34:52 Sure.

Joe Rogan 34:52 I've seen reports online, but unreliable, guys saying, "Well, they took our cattle."

Bob Gymlan 34:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:57 "They're stealing cows."

Bob Gymlan 34:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:59 I don't know if that's true. Like, a 16-foot Nile crocodile stealing cattle is what I'm saying.

Bob Gymlan 35:03 Could.

Joe Rogan 35:03 It could, certainly could. But I don't know if they ever got to be that big. And I do know that two that they captured shared the same genetics. Um, so they, they were from very close, uh, genetic line, so they think they were related.

Bob Gymlan 35:17 This is the first n- (clears throat) first number I could find about extinction in the '50s.

Joe Rogan 35:21 Serious threat? Oh, come on.

Bob Gymlan 35:24 100,000.

Joe Rogan 35:25 Endocrine-disrupting pesticides like DDT.

Bob Gymlan 35:28 Hm, of course.

Joe Rogan 35:28 That kinda makes sense.

Bob Gymlan 35:29 The other thing I read was more about hunting for leather.

Joe Rogan 35:32 Oh, okay.

Bob Gymlan 35:33 And meat.

Joe Rogan 35:34 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 35:34 But it's up to five million now.

Joe Rogan 35:36 Doggie, that's so crazy. (laughs) Five million. They say if there is a pond in Florida, there is likely an alligator in that pond.

Bob Gymlan 35:44 Sure.

Joe Rogan 35:44 Likely. More likely than not, there's, there's a, there's a giant reptile that's swimming around in the bottom-

Bob Gymlan 35:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:49 ... of that thing and occasionally poking its eyeballs up and then dropping back down.

Bob Gymlan 35:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:54 There is now, um, because of the pythons, 90-plus percent of all mammals in the Everglades are missing.

Bob Gymlan 36:03 Really?

Joe Rogan 36:04 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 36:04 Wow.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Find out what the actual number is. I think it's higher than 90%. I think it might be 99%. Like the sightings, and the accounts of animals, and the record of animals, and when they, when wildlife biologists g- go do a, an account and they try to, like, get an accurate assessment of, like, what the population numbers are.... it's down in some preposterous number. And then snakes are everywhere. It's the number one place for Burmese pythons on earth-

Bob Gymlan 36:31 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 36:32 ... is the Everglades.

Bob Gymlan 36:33 Invasive species have such an advantage, 'cause no one knows how to deal with them.

Joe Rogan 36:36 Yeah. And these fuckers are huge.

Bob Gymlan 36:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:40 And you see how they're eating alligators now too?

Bob Gymlan 36:42 Um, yes. I mean, that would make sense. But I'm sure there's plenty of them are getting eaten too.

Joe Rogan 36:47 90% decline of animals in the area due to pythons.

Bob Gymlan 36:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 36:52 Nuts. Um, yeah, they're eating alligators. There's like a, a famous photograph of a, an alligator that's inside a python's body, and it burst.

Bob Gymlan 37:00 Yeah, I have seen that.

Joe Rogan 37:00 So it burst out, yeah.

Bob Gymlan 37:02 Yeah. Isn't that a caiman though?

Joe Rogan 37:04 Uh, do not know. Are there caimans in, um, the Everglades?

Bob Gymlan 37:07 Ah. No, I'm, I think just the picture I'm thinking of. No, there aren't, but there's a picture I'm thinking of.

Joe Rogan 37:11 There might be actually caimans in the Everglades, even though they're South American-

Bob Gymlan 37:14 Yeah. I should've-

Joe Rogan 37:14 ... some asshole might have let them go.

Bob Gymlan 37:16 I should have said that to me.

Joe Rogan 37:17 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 37:17 Not to you.

Joe Rogan 37:18 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 37:18 That, that, that picture I was thinking of is an ana- a caiman that busted out of an anaconda.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Oh, okay.

Bob Gymlan 37:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:23 Yeah, I'm sure that happens too.

Bob Gymlan 37:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:24 I think this one is different. This is in the Everglades, and it's, um, a python and a smaller alligator. I think it's like a ... Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 37:31 Yeah, I think-

Joe Rogan 37:32 There it is.

Bob Gymlan 37:33 Oh, no, that's, that's the one I was thinking of.

Narrator 37:35 I don't know. There's a couple different ones, unless they're all the same. Then there's the-

Joe Rogan 37:37 Oh, yeah, I'm sure there's a bunch. There's one up top that's eating one. Look at that one. The one, the, the image. Oh, that's a alligator eating a python. So they eat each other. (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 37:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:47 Depending on who's bigger.

Narrator 37:48 Circle of life, circle of life.

Bob Gymlan 37:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:49 Yeah, depending on who's bigger. Jesus Christ. Just the idea that that thing could swallow a fucking alligator is so bizan- just so bizarre. Yeah, that, that's another animal that if it didn't exist, like a crocodile, if it didn't exist, you'd be like there's ... What are, what are you talking about?

Bob Gymlan 38:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:05 Like that's, there's a 50-foot giant reptile that's hiding in the water, and if you go out there, it eats you.

Bob Gymlan 38:12 So I'm also a dinosaur nerd.

Joe Rogan 38:15 Hmm.

Bob Gymlan 38:16 And are you familiar with the updated Quetzalcoatl?

Joe Rogan 38:20 No.

Bob Gymlan 38:21 So they found this trackway of now we know that they were competent quadrupeds, but this trackway abruptly-

Joe Rogan 38:29 So Quetzalcoatl was a real thing?

Bob Gymlan 38:31 The giant pterosaurs?

Joe Rogan 38:33 Quetzalcoatl is the Aztec god. You know, that's the-

Bob Gymlan 38:38 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 38:38 ... the winged serpent.

Bob Gymlan 38:39 I, I think that that's where they named the flying reptile off of.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Oh, okay. I didn't even know that there was a, an actual dinosaur named Quetzalcoatl.

Bob Gymlan 38:46 Well, now you're making me nervous. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:48 (laughs) Well, we don't ... Well, the good thing is we have Jamie.

Bob Gymlan 38:50 No, um-

Joe Rogan 38:51 I- I'm no expert. But, uh, I r- remember Quetzalcoatl was the, this insane Aztec f- serpent. Oh, okay, here it is.

Bob Gymlan 39:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:01 Look at that thing.

Bob Gymlan 39:02 Oh.

Joe Rogan 39:02 So it's a winged reptile-like bird.

Bob Gymlan 39:06 Uh, and, uh, but they found this trackway that suddenly became much, uh, longer stride, which means it started sprinting.

Joe Rogan 39:16 Whoa.

Bob Gymlan 39:16 And if you look up, um, Quetzalcoatl compared to a giraffe, they were like sprinting around. So it, they thought forever that they had to jump off something to, to make flight. But now we know that they were able to go fast enough to make their own flight. So this thing is ... They're as big as giraffes.

Joe Rogan 39:33 They're as big as giraffes, and they can fly, and they're predatory.

Bob Gymlan 39:36 And it's believed that they're probably the only thing around that would have given Tyrannosaurus rex pause.

Joe Rogan 39:42 Whoa.

Bob Gymlan 39:43 N- in a fight, T. rex could obviously win, but imagine being able to sprint, 'cause that spear would do some damage.

Joe Rogan 39:49 Wow. Wow. I didn't know that they called them Quetzalcoatl.

Bob Gymlan 39:54 Well, wingspan of 40 feet.

Joe Rogan 39:56 Yeah. Quetzalcoatlus, the largest known animal to take the sky. Few fossilized, but known from only a few fossilized bones from West Texas. Just, uh, how mass- how such a massive animal got airborne has been mostly a matter of speculation. Some think it rocked forward on its wing tips like a vampire bat, or that it built up speed by running and flapping like an albatross, or that it didn't fly at all. But according to new research, the mammoth creature probably leaped, jumping at least eight feet into the air before lifting off by sweeping its wings. Whoa.

Bob Gymlan 40:29 Yeah. So imagine like you're driving at that thing in a car. It could take off before you hit it, uh, you know. I don't, I don't know. It's just nuts. Like just-

Joe Rogan 40:38 I'm sure you know about terror birds.

Bob Gymlan 40:39 Of course.

Joe Rogan 40:40 Yes.

Bob Gymlan 40:41 You know?

Joe Rogan 40:42 (laughs) Those were here.

Bob Gymlan 40:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:44 Right? And don't- didn't they exist ... Like, what was the most recent ... When did ... How long ago did terror birds exist? They existed with people.

Bob Gymlan 40:53 No, I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 40:54 No?

Bob Gymlan 40:54 No. I don't believe so. I think they-

Joe Rogan 40:58 I think, I think it's millions.

Bob Gymlan 40:58 ... they were like 5 million. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:59 Right?

Bob Gymlan 41:00 No.

Narrator 41:00 Yeah. It says no.

Joe Rogan 41:02 It says didn't exist with people?

Narrator 41:03 The last, the last sets of terror birds extinct over 10,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 41:07 Oh.

Narrator 41:07 So possible for that one.

Joe Rogan 41:08 Okay.

Narrator 41:08 But this says there's no way humans could have ever met the terror birds.

Joe Rogan 41:12 Why is that?

Bob Gymlan 41:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:13 If it's 10,000 years ago, how come they say that?

Narrator 41:14 It says that research regarding the possibility of humans living aside them says that there are no way. So I don't know.

Joe Rogan 41:19 Oh, I don't believe that.

Bob Gymlan 41:20 A researcher said that.

Joe Rogan 41:21 Yeah. You don't know it, bitch.

Bob Gymlan 41:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:22 There's no way you know what happened 10,000 years ago. If they lived 10,000 years ago and we lived 10,000 years ago ... It's open to speculation.

Bob Gymlan 41:30 For sure.

Joe Rogan 41:31 It's open.

Bob Gymlan 41:31 Well-

Narrator 41:31 There's, uh, this one says between 53 million and 18,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 41:36 Oh, how weird.

Narrator 41:37 So it's a huge window.

Joe Rogan 41:37 What a fucking window, like they don't know. (laughs)

Narrator 41:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:39 Hey, man, you guys need to do some more work. Don't be making me fucking look stupid from a Google search. That's crazy.

Bob Gymlan 41:47 Oh.

Joe Rogan 41:47 That's such a wide stretch, 53 million to 18,000. Well, if it is 18,000, people were here.

Bob Gymlan 41:55 For sure.

Joe Rogan 41:55 I mean, they, they found footprints that are, I think, they're in the 22,000 years range.

Bob Gymlan 42:00 Yeah, I thought it went up even more recently than that.

Joe Rogan 42:02 I think you're right.

Bob Gymlan 42:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:03 Yeah. I think you're right. And this is like what's thrown that Clovis first, um, hypothesis into a, uh, sort of a tailspin.

Bob Gymlan 42:11 Yeah, uh, I, I, I suspect that there was a lot more civilization than we know about going on in North America particularly, but everywhere else too.

Joe Rogan 42:19 I think you're right. I think you're definitely right. And I think, um, a lot of Native American people, um, take offense to the, uh, Bering Strait, uh, hypothesis-... you know, that people all came over here from Asia into the North American land mass through the, the Bering Land Bridge.

Bob Gymlan 42:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 42:36 A lot of Native Americans say that's a crock of shit.

Bob Gymlan 42:39 Really?

Joe Rogan 42:39 Yeah. They think that people were always here. They think people had come from South America, they existed in South America before, they made it up through here, that people lived here, and that we really don't have an accurate account. I like to say that... I think the idea behind it is Native Americans, if they really did come from Asia, well, they're just immigrants too.

Bob Gymlan 43:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:03 Right? And what they're saying is there's no real evidence of that, and in fact, the evidence of human beings being here is so far back before that, before even the Ice Age, that... And the- and this is pretty clear with the footprints that they found, that there's- that... There's other explanations to how humans got here, and perhaps, even though... The problem is there's no other primates here, right? Like North America-

Bob Gymlan 43:28 Yeah. The humans didn't, uh, as far as I know, I don't-

Joe Rogan 43:31 Didn't evolve here.

Bob Gymlan 43:32 No.

Joe Rogan 43:33 Right.

Bob Gymlan 43:33 Because wasn't it only the Caucasus and Africa, I believe?

Joe Rogan 43:36 Mm-hmm.

Bob Gymlan 43:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:37 And then also primates in South America. That, that gets weird because you have different monkeys.

Bob Gymlan 43:43 That, that's a big mystery, in my opinion.

Joe Rogan 43:45 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 43:45 Yeah. I mean, right now, the best hypothesis is that primates came over on floating vegetation.

Joe Rogan 43:51 What?

Bob Gymlan 43:51 Well, it made... So the distance was less, but not by a lot.

Joe Rogan 43:55 Oh, so this is Pangaea times?

Bob Gymlan 43:56 No. Oh, it... I mean, there are still continents, but it was-

Joe Rogan 43:59 But I mean, as it's, like, separating?

Bob Gymlan 44:01 Correct. And, uh, I don't know. That seems weird to me.

Joe Rogan 44:04 How many monkeys are gonna get on a raft? (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 44:06 I mean, like, if there's a hurricane and it's a-

Joe Rogan 44:09 Right.

Bob Gymlan 44:09 ... bunch of them, but-

Joe Rogan 44:10 How many? Th- how?

Bob Gymlan 44:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:12 What?

Bob Gymlan 44:12 That would be nuts.

Joe Rogan 44:13 That's crazy.

Bob Gymlan 44:14 I think North America only has one primate that was not, um, believed to be invasive, which was smilodectus, I think.

Joe Rogan 44:24 So all the primates in South America are believed to be invasive?

Bob Gymlan 44:28 Well, I mean, depends on how you define invasive, but for, from the Old World. It's what they're called, Old World, Old World versus New World monkeys.

Joe Rogan 44:35 Wow. There are so many mysteries, right?

Bob Gymlan 44:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:38 There are so many mysteries with the, the, with human beings, like when they settled here. Have you... Are you aware of, uh... There's a guy who's done a lot of research on that wall in Montana? Do you know that wall in Montana?

Bob Gymlan 44:50 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 44:50 So there's a, there's an ancient wall in Montana that some people have tried to say is a natural rock formation and almost anybody who looks at it goes, "You're out of your fucking mind."

Bob Gymlan 45:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:02 That's 100% placed and stacked stones. But the problem is this, this ancient wall... Look at that. I mean, shut the fuck up. How is that...

Bob Gymlan 45:11 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:12 Shut, just shut the fuck up. Can I see the other, the original picture, Jamie? That one, where... Yeah. I mean, shut the fuck up. Someone stacked that, for sure. It's in a, a straight line. They're stacked on top of each other. They form fit together. They're, they're placed, you know, the same height.

Bob Gymlan 45:30 They're carved and transported.

Joe Rogan 45:32 Yeah, something was going on, right? So some ancient, ancient civilization had this, and I think it's several football fields long. I think it's really long. Like, I think what they, what they've discovered versus, uh, how much more of it could be, because also, a lot of it is covered in dirt. And if it, this thing is, you know, 25, 30,000 years old, who knows how long it is, how long it's been there. Like, who knows how deep it even goes? The Sage Wall, that's what it is.

Bob Gymlan 46:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:04 So what is that all about? Like, that was on private land, and apparently, originally, it was covered in trees and, and they cleared the area.

Bob Gymlan 46:13 Sure.

Joe Rogan 46:14 And, uh, and so initially, people were thinking that it was some sort of a natural formation, but as they cleared the area, they're like, "Wait a minute."

Bob Gymlan 46:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:20 "What is this?" So no explanation, no civilization tied to that area, especially one that's capable of moving monolithic stones.

Bob Gymlan 46:30 But then-

Joe Rogan 46:30 1996, they found it.

Bob Gymlan 46:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:32 "While hiking around the property one day, we discovered the Sage Wall. The Wall is 275 feet long and 24 feet high, a jaw-dropping marvel. In order to make these bolder areas more accessible and highlight their beauty, we created a moderate two-trail, uh, two-mile trail system. Additional features of the trail include 400-year-old Douglas fir trees, the spectacular views of the Ruby Valley 20 miles away, and the Highland Mountain Range sitting at 10,000 feet in elevation." So this is at, this is, like, high elevation, covered in trees, on a piece of private land that these people just hadn't noticed that they had this thing on there. You know, it's probably some massive ranch-

Bob Gymlan 47:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:13 ... in Montana. And then, they go, "Okay, what's, what's this?" No explanations.

Bob Gymlan 47:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:19 No one knows what it is. And I love how people try to write things like that off. "Oh, that's just a natural formation." Well, fuck you it is.

Bob Gymlan 47:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:26 You, you know it's not. I know you don't have an explanation, and this throws your whole understanding of human civilization in North America into the garbage bin, but it really does throw it in the garbage bin.

Bob Gymlan 47:36 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 47:36 Because, like, what do you... What, what happened?

Bob Gymlan 47:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:38 What was going on there? Was this Vikings? Who fucking did this? Who did it and when?

Bob Gymlan 47:42 Well, I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking of Native Americans as, like, one group.

Joe Rogan 47:48 Right.

Bob Gymlan 47:49 Like people, I'm sure different groups came over many times, and probably a lot longer than 20,000 years ago, or before 20,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 47:55 Well, we're not exactly sure when people started traveling across the oceans.

Bob Gymlan 47:58 Yup, oh.

Joe Rogan 47:58 Like when did the Polynesians make it to Hawaii?

Bob Gymlan 48:02 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 48:02 We really don't know.

Bob Gymlan 48:03 No.

Joe Rogan 48:04 It's just guessing.

Bob Gymlan 48:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:05 You know, it's kind of guessing. What, what is the... Do they have any sort of, uh, carbon dating on any of the material that's related to that stone wall where they have a, some sort of a rough estimation of its construction time?

Narrator 48:17 I'll look up more on... I was just trying to figure out where it was.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Um, but, you know, just out... One, one of the things that's interesting about the Bigfoot thing is that, for whatever reason-... Native American tribes don't have a bunch of fake animals.

Bob Gymlan 48:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:35 They don't have a bunch of, you know, they don't have dragons and werewolves and shit. But they do have Bigfoot-

Bob Gymlan 48:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:42 ... in not just one tribe but many, many, many tribes has a story of this, this sort of man that lives in the woods.

Bob Gymlan 48:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Which makes you wonder.

Bob Gymlan 48:54 It sure does.

Joe Rogan 48:55 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 48:55 That, like I said, uh, there's ... Excuse me. There's way too much going on here that, to me ... 'C-'cause it's so easy to laugh at i- ... Like, how long have we been here? Europeans, you know?

Joe Rogan 49:06 Right.

Bob Gymlan 49:06 And how long have we had the equipment to even find it? And I do think that if it is real, which is a big if, I do think it's being, um, suppressed.

Joe Rogan 49:16 Really?

Bob Gymlan 49:16 I do. So it-

Joe Rogan 49:17 So the government's hiding Bigfoot?

Bob Gymlan 49:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:19 Really?

Bob Gymlan 49:20 Would that surprise you?

Joe Rogan 49:21 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 49:21 It would?

Joe Rogan 49:22 Yeah. The- I think they're too stupid to hide Bigfoot.

Bob Gymlan 49:24 They're too stupid to do it well, which is why so many people believe in Bigfoot.

Joe Rogan 49:28 Why would, why would the government hide Bigfoot?

Bob Gymlan 49:31 Um ...

Joe Rogan 49:32 What would be the motivation? If you were the government and you found Bigfoot and you go, "You know what? We gotta keep this from people."

Bob Gymlan 49:38 I think there might be something about them that ... Well, I th- ... I ... For the same reason I think the wall is collapsing with UFO disclosure. Um, I think they ... People only recently are starting to believe that people can handle things. Or the government is only recently starting to believe that people can handle things.

Joe Rogan 50:01 That's why you think UFO disclosure is going on?

Bob Gymlan 50:04 Well, that, and they can't contain it anymore.

Joe Rogan 50:07 Um, I don't share that opinion.

Bob Gymlan 50:10 Really?

Joe Rogan 50:10 Yeah. I think, um, they're covering for some very sophisticated drone technology. That's what I think. I think-

Bob Gymlan 50:18 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 50:18 Yeah. Either-

Bob Gymlan 50:19 Well, that's boring.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Maybe. Um, but I think it doesn't exclude UFOs.

Bob Gymlan 50:25 No.

Joe Rogan 50:25 This is my re- my perspective. This is ... And again, I'm not married to this at all. This is just something that I have in my head. Um, but I believe that human beings right now are capable of propulsions. We, we ... I think we have drones that operate on a completely different propulsion system than standard, you know, rocket fuel, push ... you know, fire pushes-

Bob Gymlan 50:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:49 ... out the back and the thing goes forward very fast, like a jet engine.

Bob Gymlan 50:53 Bob Lazar shit?

Joe Rogan 50:53 Yeah. Bob Lazar shit. Exactly. I think they have that.

Bob Gymlan 50:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:56 And I think they've figured out a way to engineer that. The question is, where'd they get it, right? And that's where I think UFOs come into play.

Bob Gymlan 51:02 So, like, you think that what was seen by the Nimitz is all ours?

Joe Rogan 51:06 It could be. Because it's where it would be.

Bob Gymlan 51:09 But then why would they disclose themselves?

Joe Rogan 51:11 Well, I think they found it and they reported it and they did what they had to do, and they didn't really talk about it publicly for many years later. You know, there wasn't a big news story. I mean, when they ... Commander David Fravor, w- when I spoke to him and it was a f- ... First of all, the guy is as rock solid a military man as you're ever gonna talk to.

Bob Gymlan 51:33 Sure.

Joe Rogan 51:33 Just by-the-book disciplined fighter pilot. They ... Those guys are like detail-oriented. They don't fuck around. This guy's not making up stories about other shit. And when he describes this thing and what they saw, and then there's multiple pilots that see it, and then there's a visual. They have video of this thing moving off at insane rate of speed. They have radar imagery that shows it goes from above 50,000 feet above sea level to, like, 50 in a second. They don't know how the fuck it did it. It goes to their CAP point, so it leaves them once they see it, and it jets off to this point, this predetermined coordinate, where they were supposed to meet up as a part of their training run. So, how the fuck does it know their CAP point? Like, what is ... And where it is, right? It's off the coast of San Diego. San Diego's a big military area, right? It d- and it's where they do testing and it's where they were doing the training runs with those jets. That's why they saw it in the first place. If I was going to have a thing and I was going to test it and I was going to test it, I would wanna know, like, what can we s- ... How much, uh, do our equipment show? What does our equipment show? Can we see these things? You know, Ryan Graves, who is another, um, very reputable fighter jet pilot, he had his encounters when they upgraded their technology in 2014. So they upgraded the ... all the sensors that allow them to detect things in the sky. And when they did that, he started seeing these things. They're s- dead still at 120 knots. Makes no sense.

Bob Gymlan 53:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:08 They started seeing these things ... I always fuck this up. Is it a s- ... It's a s- ... It's a cube in a circle, right?

Narrator 53:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 53:15 Right. So it's a black cube inside some sort of a translucent circle that multiple fighter pilots have reported.

Bob Gymlan 53:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:23 And the idea of some sort of gravity-distorting thing. One of the, one of the features of that, they think, would be it would look very strange. Like, it would look very strange to you, like, what you see. And if we have some sort of a dr- ... gravity-distorting drone that operates on a gravity propulsion system, like some- ... it somehow manipulates gravity so it can move at insane rates of speed, I think that's where I would test it. I would test it where the military guys are. I would test it in restricted airspace. I would test it in place ... And I would say, "Okay, let's find out if these guys can see it now w- ... now we have new equipment." Put the new equipment in their jets. "Let's see if they could see these things."

Bob Gymlan 54:02 The concerning thing about that is if it was done by our own government, um, I worry that they're trying to set up for a false flag.

Joe Rogan 54:12 Like a false UFO flag?

Bob Gymlan 54:14 Yeah. Like, if-

Joe Rogan 54:15 An alien invasion to lock down our rights?

Bob Gymlan 54:17 Y-

Joe Rogan 54:17 Dun-dun-dun.

Bob Gymlan 54:18 Uh, I mean, if they could stage it.

Joe Rogan 54:20 Sure.

Bob Gymlan 54:20 'Cause n- ... I mean, with what you're describing, no one would assume that that's human.

Joe Rogan 54:24 Right.

Bob Gymlan 54:25 No one. And-

Joe Rogan 54:26 No one except for people that have followed the Bob Lazar story.

Bob Gymlan 54:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:29 'Cause if, if they were back engineering that thing in 1989, as Bob says-

Bob Gymlan 54:32 That's true. That's a long time ago.

Joe Rogan 54:33 That's a long time ago. You know, that is-... that's a long time. And for them to have 35 plus years of working on that, so you gotta go back to how long did they have it. He said they've had it for decades. So, ba- ... But I think what he was saying back then was they really weren't making any progress. They were trying to figure it out and they kept bringing in new people to try to have fresh eyes.

Bob Gymlan 54:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:58 And that's why they brought him in. But they really don't fucking know. They, they said they, they didn't understand how it worked. They ... And they were trying to get some sort of a working model of it. But they were able to operate it, and that's what he was able to observe, and that was one of the reasons got- why he got in trouble, allegedly, where, uh, when he got fired, he brought people. And he said, "Listen, I'm not crazy. Let me show you they have fucking UFOs. I'm gonna show you this thing."

Bob Gymlan 55:22 (laughs) Right, he brought the people.

Joe Rogan 55:23 Yeah, he brought people.

Bob Gymlan 55:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:24 And those people all said the same thing. They all saw it. And people have filmed it too. They actually had to increase the restricted space around Area 51 because people were going to-

Bob Gymlan 55:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:34 ... a very particular, uh, vantage point, and they were filming some of these things. So there's footage of these bizarre crafts that seem to be moving through the sky in a way that no conventional aircraft can do. We don't really know what they are, and we, we're assuming they're some kind of a drone or something. But I think if you go to 1989 and they have those things, and then if you have all the money in the world, which they essentially do. They could print money.

Bob Gymlan 55:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:00 You have black ops projects. You have things that we ... you know, because of national security interests, we have no idea what they're doing or how they're doing it. And then you get some of the best physicists in the world, some of the best propulsions experts in the world, and you throw an ungodly amount of money at this problem every year for 30 plus years. Then you develop these things. And I think that's one of the reasons why they would probably keep it secret, because I would imagine that money was moved around in probably, uh, an illegal way.

Bob Gymlan 56:36 Yeah, I mean there's ... without Congressional oversight, there's no legal way to do it.

Joe Rogan 56:39 Exactly, right? So if these guys were doing that and they were funding this secret military project that they kept from Congress, th- they kept from ... Uh, I mean, who knows who's qualified to be able to see these things? But if I had something like that, I would ... That's the best cover story in the world. "We have observed crafts that are not from this world."

Bob Gymlan 57:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:00 Like, "Oh, that explains everything."

Bob Gymlan 57:03 Uh, that's insufficient to me.

Joe Rogan 57:05 Mm. To me too.

Bob Gymlan 57:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:07 But it's fun.

Bob Gymlan 57:08 It is fun.

Joe Rogan 57:08 Both of them are fun. And I think both of them ... Listen, the universe is fucking huge. We exist. We send things to other planets. There is a rover right now on Mars, right? We send James Webb Telescope into space. We send rockets. We do that. We do that. We would assume an advanced civilization would do that as well.

Bob Gymlan 57:29 Of course.

Joe Rogan 57:30 And we would assume that if an advanced civilization was interested in studying something, we are some of the most fascinating creatures that have ever existed, in and out- uh, at least as our understanding on Earth. We're the most fascinating, by far. As weird as sharks are and all this other stuff is, we're the fucking weirdest. We're the weirdest and we're the craziest to, to study.

Bob Gymlan 57:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:49 And we're intelligent and also stupid. You know, we're, we're capable of great things and also terrible things. Like, we're a very, very, very bizarre creature. And I think I would most certainly study us.

Bob Gymlan 58:01 Have you ever thought that maybe we were created by their specifications?

Joe Rogan 58:08 All the time.

Bob Gymlan 58:08 Me too. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:09 Yeah, all the time.

Bob Gymlan 58:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:11 Um, that's the big mystery of the human brain size, right? The human brain size doubled over a period of two million years. And there's a lot of cool s- ... Like, m- my favorite story is Terence McKenna's. He had this theory, it's called the Stoned Ape Theory, and it's about psilocybin.

Bob Gymlan 58:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:26 And that these chimpanzees and lower primates started experimenting with psilocybin, and then over the course of a couple of million years, they developed language, they developed this ability to hunt better, uh, fashion tools, more creativity, glossolalia-

Bob Gymlan 58:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:41 ... attaching sounds to objects, and that makes sense. Some sort of telepathy, uh, increased visual acuity that does come from low-dose psilocybin use. And that- that's- that seems to me like that makes a lot of sense, 'cause it coincides, um, with, uh, climate change. When, um, McKenna did this whole theory about it, one of the things he talked about is that the exact time that the rainforests recede into grasslands because of this change in the climate-

Bob Gymlan 59:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:10 ... is the time where these animals emerge, start walking on two legs, and then start eating mushrooms, he thinks, and then two million years later become people.

Bob Gymlan 59:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:20 Yeah. That's an interesting one. But the most interesting one is they came here, they saw us. We were like Australopithecus.

Bob Gymlan 59:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:29 We were some hairy creature that was kinda primate. Like, maybe we even started using tools. And they said, "Oh, let's fuck with that DNA."

Bob Gymlan 59:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:38 "Let's make a, let's make a Labradoodle." (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 59:42 Uh-huh. I- I don't think people think big enough in regards to that kind of thing, 'cause ... Like, if we had the technology to do what allegedly the aliens, alleged aliens do, we would be doing all sorts of crazy stuff all the time.

Joe Rogan 59:57 100%.

Bob Gymlan 59:58 And, and, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 If we could int- introduce intelligent life into a planet, if there was p- uh, life on a planet and we could introduce our DNA into these lower primates and make them more like us, you don't think we would do it? I ...

Bob Gymlan 1:00:13 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 100%, right?

Bob Gymlan 1:00:14 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 Yeah, I mean, we monkey with all kinds of things all the time. We're always messing around with creatures' DNA. I mean, there's a story that we talked about recently, uh, during World War I in Russia, where Russia was experimenting with, uh, hybridizing human beings and chimpanzees for soldiers.

Bob Gymlan 1:00:31 Orangutans too.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Yes.

Bob Gymlan 1:00:32 Didn't they, uh ... Ugh. They, they got ... They, they moved ... They switched brains with an orangutan and a human.... and I guess the, the, the human with the orangutan brain never regained consciousness. But evidently, the, uh, human brain in the orangutan did regain consciousness.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Really?

Bob Gymlan 1:00:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 How did they do that?

Bob Gymlan 1:00:53 I don't know. But there's, uh, I only know this from a Monster Quest. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Is that real? Monster Quest might be a little bullshit. Although, Monster Quest did, uh, bust one of the dumbest things that I used to believe, the dumbest. Um, flying rods.

Bob Gymlan 1:01:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 Oh, it was just the moths.

Bob Gymlan 1:01:13 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 You know?

Bob Gymlan 1:01:13 It's just a visual artifact of, um, cameras-

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Sure, yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:01:18 ... where the video cameras, well, they catch these things moving fast close up-

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:01:23 ... and it leaves a trail. And so, there was this famous group of people that thought that there was these things that were flying around faster than we can see.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Mm-hmm. And that they were some sort of aliens that were amongst us.

Bob Gymlan 1:01:36 That's orbs and ghost hunting to me.

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 Mm. Ghost is an interesting one. What do you think about ghosts?

Bob Gymlan 1:01:47 I would be very sur- uh, I don't know. It's a tough one 'cause-

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 You know what I think?

Bob Gymlan 1:01:51 What do you think?

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 You hear them from every culture.

Bob Gymlan 1:01:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 That's what gives me pause. This is not, like, something that's only with, like, Europeans and Christians and people that have a specific religious ideology. This seems to be in almost every culture. There's this concept of, of dead people that return-

Bob Gymlan 1:02:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 ... in some sort of a mysterious form.

Bob Gymlan 1:02:16 I mean, it would be silly for a Bigfoot person to say this, but-

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 1:02:20 ... that, that could be part of the human condition, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Certainly.

Bob Gymlan 1:02:24 Just no one wants to think that this is the end, and I don't think this is the end. But I do think ghosts are ... I mean, why wouldn't a ghost be like, "Hello."

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 'Cause I think it's a memory.

Bob Gymlan 1:02:35 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 I think when extreme things happen, you know, when we're talking about the levels of reality being s- somewhat permeable under extreme situations, what is more extreme than, like, a murder or a massacre? And those are the places where people tend to see ghosts, these horrific ... I think, I think the Earth has a memory, and I think occasionally, under the right circumstances, with the right amount of anxiety, the, the right amount of distractions and the heightened sense that you get from being in the dark and being afraid-

Bob Gymlan 1:03:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 ... you can access these memories. That's what I believe.

Bob Gymlan 1:03:12 Yeah. I see, but I mean, the opposite argument to that is pretty obvious. It's, like, just because your anxiety is up and because all those factors and because you know what's happened there, you're more jumpy.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Mm-hmm. For sure, and you see things that aren't there.

Bob Gymlan 1:03:26 Right. But that does ... But if you see something that's not there, does it really mean it's not there?

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 It doesn't necessarily, right?

Bob Gymlan 1:03:31 That ... No. I've always thought that 'cause it's, like, if I say I saw a ghost and I actually didn't see it, but in my brain I did, like, isn't that seeing a ghost?

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 Right. Right. That's the argument that a lot of people have in terms of psychedelics.

Bob Gymlan 1:03:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 Like, psychedelics, you contact God and you have this extreme spiritual experience where you're in contact with this all-knowing entity. And people say, "Oh, that's an, a hallucination." Okay. But it's the same experience as if you actually did contact God.

Bob Gymlan 1:04:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 Like, whatever that thing is that you encounter in the psychedelic realm, let's say that that is a figment of your imagination. I'm willing to say that. But whatever that figment of your imagination creates, it creates the exact same experience as if you encountered some other extremely potent life form that exists in some strange f- some strange form that it's not tangible. It's not, like, it doesn't, doesn't register with you as something that... 'Cause it's not a normal, it's not like a, a mug of water.

Bob Gymlan 1:04:40 Nuh-uh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 You know, it's a thing that doesn't exist in your reality, and it's communicating with you. It's exactly the same experience as if it's an imaginary thing or if it's a real thing.

Bob Gymlan 1:04:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 The experience is the same. I think that's what happens with people with the ghost thing. There's too many stories. There's too many stories of ghosts from rational people, and one of the places that has a crazy history of ghosts is The Comedy Store. Um, I used to try to see ghosts at The Comedy Store. I would stay there late at night when everyone was gone, and I would, like, sit in the, in the main room and just hope that a ghost would show up.

Bob Gymlan 1:05:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:13 Nothing ever did. But maybe it was I was too needy. Maybe I was too try hard.

Bob Gymlan 1:05:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 Um, but there's something about an, like, that club itself was Ciro's Nightclub. So, that club was owned by Bugsy Siegel in, you know, in the gangster era of Los Angeles, and for sure, people were murdered there. Like, for fucking sure.

Bob Gymlan 1:05:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 I mean, those guys were killing people left and right. And if there's ever gonna be a place where you're gonna see the memory of some horrific experience that expresses itself in some sort of a spiritual form or some sort of a ghost-like wraith type form, that's the place.

Bob Gymlan 1:05:52 And you didn't see anything?

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 I didn't.

Bob Gymlan 1:05:54 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:54 But many people I know have. Many people I know have seen people walk through doors, and then they go into it and it's an empty room. They're like, "Who's that fucking guy?" And they'll see it, like, at the end of a dark hallway, and then they open the door to the room and the room is completely empty.

Bob Gymlan 1:06:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 You know, there's been a bunch of stories, bunch of stories at The Comedy Store from really, like, reputable people, people that I know that, that aren't drunks, normal folks. And they tell you, and they, they look fucking terrified. And no one wants to believe them. There's a, a guy named, uh, Carl LeBeau. Carl LeBeau was a great comic who used to tr- he used to tour around with Sam Kinison. And, um, he got kicked out of his house, and, uh, I guess he was staying with his girlfriend and, you know, he's trying to make it as a comic. And comics in the beginning, they make no money.

Bob Gymlan 1:06:42 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 A lot of them sleep in their cars. Like, my friend Tony slept in his car. Like, a lot of these, they're just, they have a dream, right?

Bob Gymlan 1:06:48 It's not like YouTubing?

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 It is, except YouTubing has a more direct path to success.

Bob Gymlan 1:06:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 With YouTube, all you have to do is be g-... Y- you have this platform that is, like, the biggest video platform on Earth, and it's available to everybody.

Bob Gymlan 1:07:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 As much as people complain about YouTube, I think YouTube is fucking amazing.

Bob Gymlan 1:07:09 I agree.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 And I think the real problems with YouTube is advertiser revenue and managing at scale. And then, woke ideological crackheads that are r- running the helm, which is real, too.

Bob Gymlan 1:07:21 They're in.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 W- people are banning people for specific content that's completely legal. But outside of that, you have a path. If you get a video and it's g-... Like your video. You're here because I saw your crocodile video, and then bam. Like, uh, "I wanna talk to that guy."

Bob Gymlan 1:07:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 "Why you doing that?" You know?

Bob Gymlan 1:07:36 I can't believe that's the video that you saw.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 Oh, yeah, man. Y-... That's how you get me, folks.

Bob Gymlan 1:07:40 No?

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Get me with a giant reptile video. (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 1:07:43 There was no 50-foot crocodile?

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 1:07:45 You don't think so?

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 No.

Bob Gymlan 1:07:46 Do y-... Do you?

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:07:48 Oh, real?

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 Yeah, I do. Yeah. Um, head transplant has been successfully done on a monkey. Maverick NeuroSurgeon. Oh, this is a head transplant. Yeah, I've heard of that.

Narrator 1:07:56 So yeah, it wasn't a brain. I watched the mar-... I went back to the Monster, uh, MonsterQuest episode.

Bob Gymlan 1:08:01 The Sov-... The one about the Soviet Union?

Narrator 1:08:03 Yeah, they were talking about, uh, a succ-... Supposedly successful test where they transplanted a head from a monkey onto another monkey. And it, according to the doctor, regained consciousness, so they said it was a succe-... Excuse me, a success.

Bob Gymlan 1:08:16 So it wasn't... They didn't say you m-...

Narrator 1:08:18 It died nine days later, and it was paralyzed the whole time.

Bob Gymlan 1:08:20 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Yeah, it d-... It has to be paralyzed, right? Because you can't reattach the spinal cord yet. Oh, that's sad.

Narrator 1:08:25 Um, cruel thing.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 They had this one-

Bob Gymlan 1:08:26 Oh, super cruel.

Narrator 1:08:27 This one, which is, they're saying successful, happened somewhere else and they killed it 20 hours later, but they said it... And look at the pictures, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:08:35 Ugh.

Narrator 1:08:37 Uh. This guy also, I found another picture, he put, uh, a rat's, or a, a mouse head on the back of a rat, and I think it was staying ali-... He's, he's trying to figure out how to do head transplants and he's testing (laughs) it on all sorts of other stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:08:50 (sighs) Yo.

Narrator 1:08:52 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:08:53 Jurassic Park comes to mind.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 Yeah.

Narrator 1:08:55 Oh, yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:08:55 Just because we can, should we? I mean, think about, like, then there will be a black market for, like, bodybuilders. Like, if I was some rich guy, I would pay money to, like, have my head put onto a nice body.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 Right, to kidnap a bodybuilder, snatch up his body.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:11 I mean, I wouldn't, but you know what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Right, but if you're like Bill Gates-

Bob Gymlan 1:09:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 ... "I'm tired of being a pregnant man, I want a-"

Bob Gymlan 1:09:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 "... I want to get a, a body of some super jacked-"

Bob Gymlan 1:09:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 "... fitness influencer on Instagram." Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:22 Or what if it was, like, a closet full of clothes, only bodies, and it's like, "What do I want to do today?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 Right. Well, one day, that's probably going to be the reality, when they have synthetic bodies. When they're... Uh, uh, th- the idea that we can't create a synthetic body, to me, seems kind of silly, because we've already created bladders. They've used stem cells to recreate a woman's bladder.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:44 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 Yeah, they took her own stem cells from her skin and constructed a bladder for her, and then installed it inside of her body.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:50 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 I think she had bladder cancer or something like that.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 And they had to remove her bladder, so they built her a bladder.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:56 That's nice.

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 Yeah. Pretty sweet.

Bob Gymlan 1:09:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:59 Right? It's also your own stem cells, so your body's not gonna reject it.

Bob Gymlan 1:10:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:02 And, you know, they're looking at, um, animals that regenerate. Like, there's certain reptiles that... You know, you... Amphibians, they chop their legs off, they grow new legs.

Bob Gymlan 1:10:12 Huh.

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Uh, lobsters. Lot of, lot of animals do that. And so, they're trying to figure out, like, what is that gene and how do we... How can we switch that on in people? So, like, people that have had their legs amputated, psht-

Bob Gymlan 1:10:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 ... grow their legs back. Which would be fucking crazy.

Bob Gymlan 1:10:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 Yeah. I think that's coming. They were saying-

Narrator 1:10:29 They were about to do it to a guy in Russia, but he backed out after he got married and had a kid.

Bob Gymlan 1:10:35 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:10:35 Oh. Good for him.

Narrator 1:10:36 They apparently had done it to corpses successfully, they say.

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 Corpses?

Narrator 1:10:41 And they were gonna... This guy was down to do it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 Well, makes sense. I mean, even though he's paralyzed. He has another option. You know? The... With, with Neurolink and a lot of these new technologies, they think that they're gonna be able to send signals to your limbs and allow your limbs to bypass the severed spinal cord.

Bob Gymlan 1:10:59 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:11:00 Which is...

Bob Gymlan 1:11:01 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 Oh, but it's crazy.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:03 But when you talk about Jurassic Park, are you aware of the, uh, mammoth project?

Bob Gymlan 1:11:09 Yeah. Did they, did they a- ... manage to get the DNA?

Joe Rogan 1:11:12 Yes.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:14 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:15 They're growing a mammoth. Like, it's actually happening. S-... And when it does happen, we're gonna-

Bob Gymlan 1:11:20 Oh, is this the Japanese one?

Joe Rogan 1:11:21 We're gonna figure out a way to visit it. No, these are American people.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:23 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:24 I believe so. I haven't met the guys yet. Um, I don't know their nationality, I'm assuming. But they're out of Dallas, right?

Bob Gymlan 1:11:29 Oh.

Narrator 1:11:30 Uh, I thought it was New York, but I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 I think the thing was in New York.

Narrator 1:11:34 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:35 Whatever. Um, whatever they're doing, they're gonna bring back a mammoth.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:38 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 That's wild.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 I mean-

Bob Gymlan 1:11:41 I would love to see a mammoth.

Joe Rogan 1:11:42 But where do they... How far do you go with that?

Bob Gymlan 1:11:44 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:11:44 Do you think they'll bring back a saber-toothed cat? What about an American lion? Which was, y-... Big as a fucking horse.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 North American lion, people... A lot of people don't know, is larger than the lions that are in Africa.

Bob Gymlan 1:11:57 Yeah, they're two thirds larger.

Joe Rogan 1:11:59 Crazy.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:00 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 1:12:00 Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:12:02 And that was right here.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:04 Yeah, it was right here. I have a... I don't know if you know this, but my... I did a, uh, a video on the lions of Tsavo. And-

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:13 And-

Joe Rogan 1:12:13 I haven't seen that.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:13 Yeah. And then, um, that's the vi- video that... The first video of mine that ever got traction of any kind.

Joe Rogan 1:12:18 That's the Ghost and the Darkness story.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:19 Gho-... Yup, Ghost and the Darkness. I thought-

Joe Rogan 1:12:22 Yeah.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:22 ... it was Ghosts in the Darkness for the longest time.

Joe Rogan 1:12:24 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 1:12:25 It's not. Um, but then I did a second video where the lions were so badass that they died and went to hell, and were really nasty in hell, and got kicked out of hell, and were plopped out, um, in dinosaur times.

Joe Rogan 1:12:38 Oh.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:38 And then, it... The video was about, um, the lions of Tsavo fighting a pack of Deinonychus.

Joe Rogan 1:12:43 Ha.

Bob Gymlan 1:12:44 Yeah. And the lions lost. But in reality, I think lions would beat a Deino-... Would beat a bunch of Deinonychus.

Joe Rogan 1:12:50 W-... Who knows? You know? But...I mean, that sounds like something the Romans probably would have put together-

Bob Gymlan 1:12:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 ... when they were doing those coliseum fights.

Bob Gymlan 1:13:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 But what, what this speaks to is what we were talking about earlier. Like that, what happened to create human beings, and what would we do if we could do those things? Well, we're showing what we would do. We're, we're, we're taking people's heads off, putting them in other bodies. We're taking monkey's heads off.

Bob Gymlan 1:13:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 We're putting over, a rat's head on the back of a mouse. Like we're doing all kinds of bizarre experiments. And if they knew how to do it, instead of like we're kind of at the rudimentary stages of this kind of stuff, if they knew how to successfully implant their genetic material and hyper advance a lower primate and make it, in a short period of time, much smarter than any other primate on earth, which is what we are.

Bob Gymlan 1:13:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:44 We're so different than everything else that's remotely related to us. The idea that somehow or another, we exist in this form, and our ancient ancestors exist in the same form. Like the really ancient ancestors, we, we, we've branched off of a, a... We're like a cousin of a chimpanzee.

Bob Gymlan 1:14:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 And we, we share a lot of their traits.

Bob Gymlan 1:14:07 Yeah, they never found our, uh, chimpanzee level ancestor.

Joe Rogan 1:14:12 Right.

Bob Gymlan 1:14:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:12 'Cause it's on a fucking spaceship somewhere, bro.

Bob Gymlan 1:14:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:15 (laughs)

Bob Gymlan 1:14:15 Would, is it... Would that be surprising? No.

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 It would be, sure. Yeah, it'd be crazy.

Bob Gymlan 1:14:21 I wouldn't be surprised by that at all.

Joe Rogan 1:14:22 I wouldn't be like, "I can't believe this."

Bob Gymlan 1:14:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 I wouldn't say that.

Bob Gymlan 1:14:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 I would say, "Wow, so that's what it was. So that's why we're so different." Well, I was, uh, having, um, a conversation with a woman yesterday, uh, Sara Amari Walker, who is a, a scientist, uh, a physicist, and she was talking about a thing called Assembly theory. And what she was, um, talking about... Did I say her last name right?

Bob Gymlan 1:14:51 Yeah, Walker.

Joe Rogan 1:14:52 Um, what she was talking about was like what are the actual steps that are necessary in order for life to, to create, to be created and evolve. And if you think about human beings, we're the one animal on this planet that seems to have the same sort of impact as invasive species do.

Bob Gymlan 1:15:13 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:15:15 We're, we're s- we swarm the whole planet, we're fucking up everything, and there's no answer to us.

Bob Gymlan 1:15:20 Ah, see, but do you think humanity's something that needs an answer?

Joe Rogan 1:15:23 Well, there's no answer to us naturally, right? Like there's nothing that keeps our population in check, other than disease.

Bob Gymlan 1:15:29 No normal population control. Like d- uh, so, a- while the left is talking about, you know, humanity, its population going out of control, like our population's crashing.

Joe Rogan 1:15:40 Sure, right.

Bob Gymlan 1:15:41 I mean, what is it? Um, Asia crashed, Europe and America are crashing now, India's next to crash, and Africa is the only one left to boom.

Joe Rogan 1:15:49 Right. In terms of like Japan, like the children that are alive today, how many of them will s- ever have grandchildren?

Bob Gymlan 1:15:55 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:15:55 A very small percentage. Yeah, that's true. Elon talks about that all the time.

Bob Gymlan 1:15:59 Yeah, I mean, 'cause it, like you can look at-

Joe Rogan 1:16:00 We need to have more kids.

Bob Gymlan 1:16:01 You can look at the charts. Like it's very clear, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:16:05 Right. But don't you think... So this is nature's balancing act, right? So...

Bob Gymlan 1:16:09 It, it has to happen. It's not, it's not a matter of like it's going to. It, it has to... Those are the rules.

Joe Rogan 1:16:16 I think nature probably balanced us out when we developed cities, right? 'Cause what's the byproduct of cil- cities? One of the byproducts of cities is it's expensive to live there, so, um, a lot of times women get jobs. And, um, women don't want to give up their career to have a family, so they hold it off until much later. And if they have a child at all, they have less kids than people who start having kids when they're 18 or 20.

Bob Gymlan 1:16:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:16:43 And so this is sort of a function of having these extremely dense environments where people are stacked up with each other, and then competition inside that city-like structure is intense, and financial competition is intense, and women engage in it as well, and it lowers the population. That happens to almost all westernized societies, first world societies. They experience a drop in birth rate.

Bob Gymlan 1:17:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:12 And it seems like that would be a natural feature of like high population areas.

Bob Gymlan 1:17:18 'Cause it doesn't even matter what it is.