Joe Rogan Experience #2186 - Ari Matti

Ari Matti Mustonen is an international touring stand-up comic, fight commentator, and native of Estonia. www.arimatti.com

Ari Matti MustonenguestJoe RoganhostJamie Vernonguest

Aug 9, 20242h 43mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,010 words

0:00 – 1:12
Pre-show banter: audio gear debate, podcast shout-out, and the perils of translation
1. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (energetic music)
3. JVJamie Vernon
  Okay, we're up now.
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Oh, yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  So what, what were you guys, um, talking shop about?
6. JVJamie Vernon
  Want to explain.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  What did (laughs) what did you ask?
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Well...
9. JRJoe Rogan
  What was the question you asked Jamie?
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Okay, well Jai- well, yeah. Jamie's gonna fucking...
11. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... run a train on me.
13. JVJamie Vernon
  Ah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  I felt that there was some controversy.
15. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  There was some tension. There was some-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  There was a little tension in the room.
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  We had, when we had a lovely dinner after your show, uh, we, we went at it a little bit. And we had a little disagreement about compression technologies, pre-amps.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Cloudlifters, you know.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  What is your position?
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Well, my position is... Well, okay.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
23. JVJamie Vernon
  Go ahead.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Hold on. Okay, okay.
25. JVJamie Vernon
  He's coming from a different place, though, also, so go ahead.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
27. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, very different. Let's just say, financially, we're coming from a different, very different place.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But I try to use the Shure SM7B. We actually got, uh, for my podcast, uh, Tussisööd, shout out, here we are, um... It's Estonian, you're not gonna... Well, AI maybe.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  What did you just shout out?
1:12 – 3:32
Out-of-context clips, satire, and deepfake ads: why comedians are easy targets
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you think Spotify will translate it to English?
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Dude.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Maybe you'll be the first that goes the opposite way.
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Bro, if AI f- translate this podcast, I'm fucked, you know?
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, yeah, like-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, take it down.
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (laughs)
9. JRJoe Rogan
  See, this is the thing. They're gonna do that.
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I know.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Spotify is going to do that with-
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But they don't get my charisma and timing down, though.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  No. Also, sense of humor, sarcasm, and when you translate that to English, they-
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I'm just gonna say...
15. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you sound like a Nazi. (laughs)
16. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I will be a Nazi.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Dude, it's gonna be.
18. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I'm so scared.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the problem with satire and, and humor and what is, for lack of a better term, it's called talking shit, okay? And this is what we do on podcasts, this is what we do in the green room, this is what me and my friends love to do all the time, right? We do that all the time. We say things we don't mean 'cause it's funny. We s- th- say things that are inappropriate because it's funny.
20. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Enough.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  And it is 100% done with fun. And the problem is today, people like to take things and pretend you're saying something when that's not what you're saying.
22. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, there's a funny comedian in, uh, in Canada. He's an American dude who moved to Vancouver. He's Dino Archie. He used to ha- say, "Off the record talk." You know?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. It's, it's shit talk.
24. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  It's like... Yeah.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  We're talk... We d- we're not saying things that we mean. We're saying things that are fun to say. But what I was gonna get to before we did is that, the thing that Jamie told me about MS... Well, Tulsi Gabbard was the first person to tell me about it. So, I was talking about how great Tulsi Gabbard is, about if, uh, you know, you really wanted a great Democratic candidate that was a woman, woman of color, congresswoman for eight years, served overseas in a medical unit twice. It's where she got that gray streak in her hair. She's like a- an exemplary human being.
26. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  She likes my Kill Tony bits on Instagram, so... (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  And they tried to say that I was talking about Kamala Harris, so they edited it out of context.
28. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (gasps) Dude, I've seen your edited videos with ads because, see-
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, there's a lot of AI ads that aren't really me.
30. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Because, because Estonia is in Eastern Europe and the Russian bot system-
3:32 – 8:00
AI-generated “podcasts,” audio forensics, and the coming realism of synthetic media
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. But you can do amazing things now with AI, you know? J- you could do it with video editing, for sure. Like you could just have a guy splice in, him being in this chair and me being in that chair, and if you did it right and you spent your time on it, you could make it very convincing. And that's just the beginning, man. I- there's a podcast with me and Steve Jobs. I never met Steve Jobs. There's like a, I think it's 40 minutes long. How long is the podcast with me and Steve Jobs? But it's a completely AI generated podcast.
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  It's just audio. But from what I've heard, it's... You can kinda tell, but it's getting close. It's getting to the point where you're not gonna be able to tell. Y- you know when you- you hear enough computer generated sentences, you're gonna catch little glitches in the matrix, you know? It's gonna sound a little off.
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But you can only catch those g- uh, glitches in the matrix because you're a person who's also around technology, internet, so you kinda, kinda see the scam going on.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  It's not a super visible scam. It's like a, "Oh, I see it" scam.
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Exactly.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. So how long is it, J-
8. JVJamie Vernon
  20 minutes.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  20 minutes, okay. So it's just me... Let me hear some of it. ... personality. They seem to have a soul in a way, and some people almost get religious about this stuff because it's so powerful and it means so much. Is that good?
10. NANarrator
  If a company gets to the point where it's successfully doing a few things, you don't have to try and do everything. We're in the process now of trying to cut the things we're doing so that we can concentrate on the few that are really high on our priority list, because if you try to do too many things, none of them get done well.
11. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Well, that transition-
12. NANarrator
  You've gotta focus on a few and make sure those are done well.
13. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... looks shitty.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  The transition's clunky, but even more importantly, the sound is very different between where... The environment that I'm talking in, the environment he's talking about.
15. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  For sure.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  So either he's not in the room, which I don't do.
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't do Zoom calls.
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Those suck.
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Or, you know, that's fake.
23. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's only, only two options.
25. JVJamie Vernon
  If an audio engineer just tweaked it for f-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
27. JVJamie Vernon
  ... two minutes, they could make it sound so much better.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
29. JVJamie Vernon
  Make it way more real too.
30. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Compression. Compression.
8:00 – 12:29
VR reality checks and existential dread: brain uploads, souls, and Matrix nightmares
1. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... and tried the AI for the first time in my life.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, nuts.
3. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Uh, uh, he was saying like, he has a second life and they are happy with his girlfriend there, and they're like living in a whole nother world there.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, Redman's slightly insane, so... (laughs)
5. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I know, but that's i- the way he was ex- des- describing to me, I imagined it's like the Neo where I put the thing in my back-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
7. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... and then, and I'm happy now. Uh, but it was, dog, it was literally PlayStation 2 graphics.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Whenever I wanna nerd out about electronics, it's always Redman. We- we always talk. We always talk about the newest phones or the newest this, or this does that, that does this.
9. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, he's just a techno nerd.
11. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  He loves that shit, so he-
13. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And he's already giving up on this life 'cause he knows VR is here.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
15. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (laughs)
16. JRJoe Rogan
  That's a, such a Redman move, "I'm just gonna go and die."
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Every time I tell him to eat something healthy... (laughs)
18. JRJoe Rogan
  "But you know what?"
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  "AI is taking over, I'm just gonna get, my brain teleported."
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Exactly.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, that's the ultimate leap, right? Imagine if they get to a point where they say, "We can download your brain into a computer, but you will cease to exist right here, right now, and you just have to assume that it's, whatever consciousness is in your head is your life."
23. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (coughs)
24. JRJoe Rogan
  And it's not just a faction of that consciousness being in a very particular state in time.
25. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  That consciousness being attached to this particular biological body in this particular place. Like, what makes you you? And if you take that shit out and stick it in a machine, what kind of horrific existence is that? What's screaming into the abyss-
27. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  ... unattached from a body, but trapped, trapped in a newly created computer-
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Oh, Matrix.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  ... dimension because you didn't- you didn't get to go to heaven 'cause you got trapped in a metal box. And maybe that's how the aliens contain souls. Maybe that's how they get them.
12:29 – 14:34
Why live art still matters: standup, music, and the ‘human experience’ in performance
1. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I remember when I was like, uh, when I was like 19, I worked at a jazz bar. Didn't know shit about jazz. I don't know shit about music, I don't know how to play. Do you know how to play anything?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  No, I don't know how to play anything.
3. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Literally, I don't know how to draw or play any... Like, my hands just don't work like that.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
5. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I tried guitar, it just doesn't happen. Dudes are just... And they're like, "Feel the..." Uh- uh, nothing, this connection, nothing's happening.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Interesting.
7. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But I remember working at that bar. There was like, um, there was a famous Estonian guy, uh, who was, uh, performing like an unplugged... He was like a rock star. And he was performing an unplugged version on the weekends, you know? And technically, he sounded amazing. He was an amazing guitar player. But he was a young guy, maybe only five years older than me. Technically perfect from the traditional training, the school, he had all the things. And for me, that sounds amazing, right? But then I remember we started having, uh, 'cause he was turning, uh, we had blues nights on Tuesdays, and the owner would fly out from America, like New Orleans, these 65-year-old Black dudes that live a rough life. You can see from their face, from the way they move, it's been a rough life. And the way they would sing, maybe technically it wouldn't be, sound as clean, but what you would feel... 'Cause I was bartending and I would look at the audiences and I would see them also, you feel it.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
9. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  You can't explai- uh, dude, I don't know. Of course, later when I got to be friends with musicians there, they would explain, they would be like, "No, no, no, that guy, the other guy was doing the basic A, B, C, D, D, D."
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
11. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  "He's doing a whole different shit right now."
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. So it's something that only the people that really know how to play recognize.
13. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Like standup.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
15. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But I feel it.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  I think that's the case with everything, man. I really do. I think that's the case with everything.
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Everything.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Especially art.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  I think everything with, that, it's a true form of expression. You know, even like ga- chess, I think games people play. I think it's, I think, I think it exists in everything, you know?
14:34 – 17:10
Napster to streaming: the music industry’s missed pivot and the death of physical media
1. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  'Cause I remember, I even, uh, remember, uh, when there was... Remember peer-to-peer before torrents?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
3. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  It was peer-to-peer.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Sure.
5. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  What did you guys have? Kazaa, iMesh.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  What did we have? What was that one?
7. JVJamie Vernon
  They mem- they mem- we had 'em all, for sure.
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Kazaa, iMesh-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  But what was the one that everybody used?
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... LimeWire.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  What was the one that everybody used?
12. JVJamie Vernon
  We started off with Napster, and then we went into Kazaa-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Metallica sued Napster.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Oh, yeah.
15. JVJamie Vernon
  ... LimeWire and Morpheus.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, Na- I remember the Napster days, but like-
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Metallica sued Napster, you know?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Then... Oh, yeah, yeah. Lars Ulrich was very upset.
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  And- and so it was-
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  He was-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Um, uh, I had, um, Paul Stanley from KISS on the podcast.
23. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Wow.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  And he's just flat out saying, "Those people are stealing. They're stealing money." And, you know, my position, it was very... I was like, okay, a bomb just went off. And you could either recognize you have a hole in the ship or you can go full steam ahead with the original plan and this motherfucker's gonna sink. Okay?
25. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  It's like the cartoon when Tom and Jerry, when he's trying to- the ship is sinking.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  The moment music becomes a digital piece of information that can be uploaded to a hard drive. The moment that happens, it's over.
27. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  So if you don't realize that the war has been lost and devise some sort of monetization of streaming platform, make it simpler, quicker-
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (clears throat)
30. JRJoe Rogan
  ... faster than anybody else's, and then get it up there quick... Because (laughs) like, that's, they should have done that the moment Napster came out.
17:10 – 23:10
Tech acceleration and attention: from Blockbuster to smartphones to an AI-driven power grab
1. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, we only got cassettes. Then it was CDs. So the format was always changing.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
3. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And then it was the Blu-ray and the Microsoft-
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
5. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... whatever format they had, battle. So there's always that battle of data. Then for a while, like USBs were tried, you know-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
7. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... when they would sell small USBs.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
9. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But then just the internet was like, hmm, physical-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
11. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... it was over.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Isn't that crazy? And not only that, it's way better.
13. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Way better.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Like the... Imagine if YouTube was just a bunch of discs that you had to get. (laughs)
15. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Dude.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  How stupid that would be.
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I would ne- But then again-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  But that's a good example of how much things have changed.
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Is the fact that YouTube exists, and that YouTube is not a stack of discs that you have to go to a library or a bookstore to get.
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  YouTube just exists instantaneously.
23. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But then again, there was that magic of like... I feel lucky at least to have that childhood where I remember-
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah.
25. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... that my attention was actually not raped by technology that much. But I had to actually look forward to consuming something and work physical exertion to get it, go to the DVD thing. You would read the back, you would look at the-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
27. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  You would put... It's- it's, there's a more maybe commitment to consumption.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  I think it's gonna be very interesting when we look back on human beings in-... I think we're in the middle of it right now, so we probably don't really objectively understand how much of an impact it's had on us, 'cause it's sort of trickled in slowly with just regular cell phones, and then, like, remember those Sidekicks? People had the Sidekicks so you could send texts on? Where it would go sideways, remember? We were like, "Wow, that's crazy." That was, like, next level. And then BlackBerrys, if you were fucking serious, if you're really getting some shit done-
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  ... answering some emails-
23:10 – 32:10
Saunas, nudity norms, and gym stories: cultural clashes and uncomfortable attention
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you ever get flashed in the sauna by a dude?
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Uh, well, flash, we only go naked. You know that, right?
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, in your country?
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Of course.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  That's why you guys-
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And if you have pants on, that's creepy and that's weird. If you come with pants-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Interesting.
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... we would have an issue.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Because it's weird. What are you hiding? What's the thing? You have a boner?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  My dick.
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Exactly.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  What's going on?
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Dude's just staring at my dick. I'd rather just put my underwear on.
16. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  We all stare at each other's dicks. I've seen-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Good luck with that.
18. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Like, in the green room-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
20. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  In the green room, comedians were talking about how many dicks they've seen in their lifetime, and I remember they were lay- saying, like, numbers. "Bro, I've seen thou- 10-"
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
22. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  "I've seen 16 to 22,000 dicks."
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Do you think that's healthy?
24. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah. (laughs)
25. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
26. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, it's normal, you know.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Normal shit.
28. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Normal shit.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Just looking at dicks.
30. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And then sometimes I remember in high school we all showered together. There was always one weird kid that would not shower with us, and you make fun of him. Show me, uh, "What are you... what's going on? Why didn't you show us your dick?" You know.
32:10 – 37:07
Sex, clothing double standards, and ‘formal’ TV outfits—then a wild nightclub story
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, I, I wouldn't do that if I was you. You know, if you wanna wear a bikini, great, everything's covered. Which is like, how funny is that? The bikini thing is hilarious, you know? That there's this little tiny little piece of cloth, little tiny little piece.
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  You know on Instagram, they have that little-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Little, little Dorito.
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And you see-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  It's-
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  All I don't see is the actual episi- but...
7. JRJoe Rogan
  By the way, I like it. (laughs) I'm not, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, please don't stop wearing them, I think they're great.
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  I like G-strings, I like girls with beautiful bodies expressing themselves-
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... wearing whatever they wanna wear. (laughs) I'm just saying, it's so different than shorts. (laughs) Like, if a dude wears Speedos, he's a freak. Right? A dude in Speedos, unless you're in your fucking country.
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Exactly.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  But a dude in America in Speedos is a weirdo. Or Speedo Nation, baby. Some dude in Speedos, that guy's a weirdo. (laughs) If you don't have goggles on, if you didn't come from a long-ass swim, you fucking weirdo. Why are you wearing Speedos? Everybody wears shorts.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  But ladies, Desperate Crisis, Speedo.
16. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  That's Estonia every, every stepdad, every, every man I've ever seen growing up, I've seen their dick.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  That's inflammation in its human form.
18. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Like that. That is true, that is an inflamed body.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) That's an inflamed body.
20. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  That's, I wouldn't recommend that. Um, but... (laughs) ... the, that, that's what makes the G-string funnier, right? The Speedos, that's what makes all of it funnier. But it's just, it's funny, the difference between, like, okay, f- women's formerel- formal attire, right? So, not even formal but like, say, a woman who's a presenter on television.
22. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Right? Skirt, no problem. Bare toes, open, open-toed shoes, no problem at all. Have one of them ones that dangles off your foot a little bit-
24. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... not all the way on.
26. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  No one cares. Vagina curtain that covers about 12 inches from your waist down, that's fine.
28. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Boobs...
30. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  All out.
37:07 – 47:05
Kangaroos, predators, and extinct mysteries—plus why zoos feel like moral failure
1. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, yeah.And this was like when I visited Australia, and in my head, I was like, "Kangaroos are like cutie patooties." But when you go to Australia, they'll tell them like, "We hate them 'cause they just keep jumping in front of cars."
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, they're everywhere now, too.
3. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  They're fucking everywhere.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  They have a lot of kangaroos. They- it's a weird animal, man.
5. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a marsupial? Like, it's so strange. They have a pouch, they keep their babies in their skin. How'd they develop a backpack? Like how did-
7. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I-i-i-it is the insanest evolutionary-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  How?
9. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... a little pouch.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  How?
11. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  A bag.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  How does that... Ho- I mean, how does nature make you get a bag?
13. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (laughs)
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, that's so crazy.
15. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like one of the we- like, o- out of all the animals that like, where the fuck did that come from? Like, if you look at a deer and then you look at a elk, you can go, "Oh, I kind of see." You look at a moose, you look at a caribou, you're like, "Uh, I can kind of see." And then like, "What's that? And why is it only in this one spot?"
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And why does it jump like-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yo, is that an alien? What is that thing?
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Why did it develop on Australia and nowhere else? What the fuck is that thing? And how come there's nothing that can kill it?
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And how come you stand on your tail and do like a Steve-O kick?
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, they kick you hard.
23. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And do like a Steve-O kick.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  They kick you hard.
25. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  They fuck you up. They disembowel people, man. You gotta be really careful with those fuckers.
27. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Oh, and they're-
28. JRJoe Rogan
  People die from the big ones. Are the big ones the gray ones? The- the gray ones are the big one or the red one?
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And then-
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Eddie, Eddie Ift went over there, he said he was walking through a backyard and there was like a six-foot tall kangaroo.
47:05 – 51:48
Media distrust and corporate influence: campaigns, narratives, and the ‘nothing is real’ era
1. JRJoe Rogan
  That's, that's what we have to look forward to. The way this fucking goofy place is being run.
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Uh-huh, uh-huh.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  They're pushing us closer and closer to, like, something real.
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  So, so my luck that as soon as I come to America, the fucking country collapses, huh?
5. JRJoe Rogan
  It's not collapsing.
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (laughs)
7. JRJoe Rogan
  But boy, it's in a weird state of this strange struggle where people f- kind of forgot we're all supposed to be united, and that's our strength, and being divided the way we're being divided, especially being divided by bullshit. You know? Like, you shouldn't be allowed to lie, and you shouldn't be allowed to lie in a campaign ad, and you shouldn't (laughs) you shouldn't, you shouldn't be allowed to use CGI to make your crowds look bigger. Like, you shouldn't be allowed.
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  You shouldn't be allowed to do any of these things.
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  A- and we're allowing it, and it's having this tremendous impact on the way people see the news. The news is so filtered. Everything in this country that's in mainstream news, it's, uh, you have to follow a certain set of rules in order to be able to get information out. And if you wanna talk about the campaigns and if you wanna talk about the war and if you wanna talk about what's going on in Ukraine or what's going on in Gaza, you have to have, like, very specific narratives.
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  And you're not allowed to deviate from that at all. And then that's what's giving you the news. And so we're all like, "What the fuck is real?" And so anytime anything happens, even when the president gets shot, we're like, "Was that even real?" Like, we don't think anything's real anymore.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Absolutely.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  And that's what primes us.
16. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  For the Matrix. But no one knows if anything's real anymore.
18. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  It's so much easier to just slide right in, Ari.
20. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Slide right in, Ari, and ah, we're in. Fuck the world, dude. I'm in a secure apartment complex. It's level five security. There's bank vault doors that lock to make sure the marauders don't get in while you're connected.
22. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  And you can just be free in this other world and ride around on your dragon on Pandora.
24. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  (exhales) You know, you're fucking that blue lady with the hair. (exhales)
26. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (laughs)
27. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) Remember they connected hairs with the dragon?
28. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
30. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Wow.
51:48 – 59:20
Alcohol, addiction, and trauma: Ari’s stepdad story and why people don’t stop
1. JRJoe Rogan
  It's a little, little bit of, uh, let's have fun. Yeah. And, you know, it's a good feeling. When you're with friends and you have a couple of cocktails and you're laughing your ass off, like, (sighs) dude, it's a good feeling. But you shouldn't do it every goddamn day. Shouldn't- shouldn't be your whole life.
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  It should, you shouldn't be drinking 12 hours a day, every day.
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But that's why it's so exciting, is that life is not infinite. And you do take those small risks, and that's what's, that's what's so exciting, you know?
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Also, people that do drink 20 hours a day, those people in, for, in your life, in your journey, those people are examples where you can learn something without having to actually do it yourself. Like, you don't have to become an alcoholic and ruin your life.
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  But you can see someone do it and say, (inhales deeply) "Okay, that-"
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  My stepdad was a bad one.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Ooh.
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Bad. One of those where in the mornings, he's... Because your system is, you know, your system-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... is done. In the mornings, in the bathroom, he would take two to three hours of like shitting, the shitting, and then just heaving, you know?
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  'Cause your body's just rejecting all this poison.
15. JVJamie Vernon
  God, damn it.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, God. So you hear him throw up every day?
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But then... Every day.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, my God.
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And the violent... You know, there's no throw up left, but it's just the heaving. It's, it's-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh. Goddamn.
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And then put on a suit, put on a suit, bloated as fuck. Put on a suit, all happy puppy, survive for eight hours, and then he would... I remember he would come home. And as a child, um, he would come home and he would be in the car, and just sit there in his car. And I would see him sit there. And as a child-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, my God.
23. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, as a child, you're like, "Oh, he was just, he's just taking a moment, maybe." You don't understand that this guy is-
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
25. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... barely keeping it together.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
27. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  'Cause he's about to go down a rabbit... And he's fighting the rabbit hole. Every, every day-
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... he's, he's just, like, "I don't want to." And he would-
30. JRJoe Rogan
  And then if you're drinking all the time-
59:20 – 1:00:36
Hitler’s drugs, Nazi meth, and the chemistry of war—plus tanks as a terrifying job
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Um, do you know that in, um... Was it Iraq or Afghanistan where soldiers were listening to, like, death metal while they were, uh, operating tanks?
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  (laughs)
3. JRJoe Rogan
  If you see (laughs) ... Have you ever seen videos of dudes, like, operating from inside of tanks?
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. It's death metal.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  That's gonna be the craziest job the world has ever known. You're in a giant metal box-
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  ... and you're moving it towards war and you're hoping that thing doesn't break. You hope it doesn't break and leave you out there. You're hoping that when it gets shot at or, who knows, the transmission fails, and then you're out there. (gasps)
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  In enemy territory.
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  While they're shooting missiles at you.
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I've always thought, like... 'Cause the Germans were the first ones with a, uh, tank, with a Panzer, right? That was correct, right?
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't know.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I think so.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  I think so. I think the Panzer was the first.
16. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And I remember always thinking like, imagine like being like a Russian, Russian soldier or something and you're with a, like, a bolt-action rifle in a ditch.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  And you see that fucking tank.
18. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But you hear a krack, krack, krack. You don't even know what the fuck that is.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And you're like, "A car?" But then you s-... And dude, that feel... Clunk. Nothing. Clack, clack. Clunk.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh my god.
22. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Oh my god.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh my god. A tank.
24. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  A tank.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  What an insane idea.
1:00:36 – 1:06:43
War movies vs war reality: propaganda, Vietnam, and why false flags matter
1. JVJamie Vernon
  It's basically what the scene is from All Quiet on the Western Front. It's pretty-
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Oh.
3. JVJamie Vernon
  Pretty fucking badass.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5. JVJamie Vernon
  It's not a great time to watch it 'cause we're doing a podcast, but...
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, exactly.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, this is the first time they see the tanks.
8. JVJamie Vernon
  Yeah. Oh, fuck. (laughs)
9. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Look at this. Look at this. Imagine.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  They just do... You can't stop them.
11. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  It's literally like seeing a Transformer right now. Like if you would see...
12. JRJoe Rogan
  They have no idea what to do.
13. JVJamie Vernon
  This is nuts. Yeah.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  And nobody told you.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
16. JVJamie Vernon
  It's a good movie to watch.
17. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  No-... Yeah, nobody-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay. I'll watch it.
19. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  It's an amazing movie, yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  I heard it's awesome. I heard it's-
21. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Sad.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the new one, right?
23. JVJamie Vernon
  Yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Sad.
25. JVJamie Vernon
  It's different from the book slightly, but it's still-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Sad.
27. JVJamie Vernon
  It's a diff-... It's a good story.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, I'm sure. There's no happy war movies.
29. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  That's how you know that movie's bullshit.
1:06:43 – 1:16:42
Sex testing in women’s boxing and testosterone loopholes across combat sports
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, with that female boxer, like, tha- that was a big one, right, where everybody's like, "Okay, what is going on?"
2. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Is that a, a female? Is that a male? Is it someone has XY chromosomes?
4. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  I saw that information that it was the XY thing early, but it was just a levying of, of that, that it's a man just came a bit too strong, 'cause the both information came out pretty much... I, I would, in my sources, I would say I saw in similar time, where it was like, "Oh, it's a man," but then you just open another, scroll a bit more, and then you see the XY chromosome thingy, and then you're like, "Okay." But just the levying of that it's a dude came on a bit strong.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, the XY chromosome is male.
6. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, yeah, it's the male, yeah, but-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
8. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  ... the definition of, like, was, because, uh, I think, uh, the first, uh, the first reaction was that it's a man transitioning to a woman.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, that's-
10. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Right.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... what people thought initially, and then they realized, no, this is someone who has, uh, a genetic issue.
12. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Um, but the, the, uh, there was another, there's a boxing committee that had infor- uh, I'm gonna send you this, Jamie.... because this kind of makes it all make like a little bit more sense. But it was essentially that, um, there's, there's different versions of these kinds of diseases that people have, and depending on those versions, some of them ar- they're just, they're- they go through male puberty, and they have male frames and they're male.
14. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  But when they're born, they have, like, some-
16. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Agender, yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  ... significant issues. Okay, so here it is. I found it, and I'll send it to you, Jamie. But it's a European vice president of the World Boxing Organization has come forward to confirm that Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is male. Uh, this person said, uh, "He warned the Olympic Committee about several male boxers in the women's category, but nothing was done." Um, who knows? You know, I don't, I, I don't have any direct-
18. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  ... information about whether that is a male or female. And-
20. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Let's just say that one-two slaps. (laughs)
21. JRJoe Rogan
  The one-two's not bad, but also, that person's lost before.
22. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Um, to, to female boxers. But here's the thing.
24. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  But that doesn't-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  That doesn't mean that-
26. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Yeah, it doesn't mean...
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, there's a lot of girls out there, boys, that can kick your ass.
28. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Exactly.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  They are.
30. AMAri Matti Mustonen
  Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 2:43:53

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Pre-show banter: audio gear debate, podcast shout-out, and the perils of translation

Out-of-context clips, satire, and deepfake ads: why comedians are easy targets

AI-generated “podcasts,” audio forensics, and the coming realism of synthetic media

VR reality checks and existential dread: brain uploads, souls, and Matrix nightmares

Why live art still matters: standup, music, and the ‘human experience’ in performance

Napster to streaming: the music industry’s missed pivot and the death of physical media

Tech acceleration and attention: from Blockbuster to smartphones to an AI-driven power grab

Saunas, nudity norms, and gym stories: cultural clashes and uncomfortable attention

Sex, clothing double standards, and ‘formal’ TV outfits—then a wild nightclub story

Kangaroos, predators, and extinct mysteries—plus why zoos feel like moral failure

Media distrust and corporate influence: campaigns, narratives, and the ‘nothing is real’ era

Alcohol, addiction, and trauma: Ari’s stepdad story and why people don’t stop

Hitler’s drugs, Nazi meth, and the chemistry of war—plus tanks as a terrifying job

War movies vs war reality: propaganda, Vietnam, and why false flags matter

Sex testing in women’s boxing and testosterone loopholes across combat sports

Get more out of YouTube videos.