Joe Rogan Experience #2186 - Ari Matti

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:00 (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (energetic music)

Jamie Vernon 0:12 Okay, we're up now.

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:13 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:14 So what, what were you guys, um, talking shop about?

Jamie Vernon 0:16 Want to explain.

Joe Rogan 0:17 What did (laughs) what did you ask?

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:18 Well...

Joe Rogan 0:18 What was the question you asked Jamie?

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:18 Okay, well Jai- well, yeah. Jamie's gonna fucking...

Joe Rogan 0:22 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:22 ... run a train on me.

Jamie Vernon 0:23 Ah.

Joe Rogan 0:23 I felt that there was some controversy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:25 There was some tension. There was some-

Joe Rogan 0:26 There was a little tension in the room.

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:26 We had, when we had a lovely dinner after your show, uh, we, we went at it a little bit. And we had a little disagreement about compression technologies, pre-amps.

Joe Rogan 0:36 Really?

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:36 Cloudlifters, you know.

Joe Rogan 0:38 What is your position?

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:39 Well, my position is... Well, okay.

Joe Rogan 0:41 (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 0:42 Go ahead.

Joe Rogan 0:42 Hold on. Okay, okay.

Jamie Vernon 0:43 He's coming from a different place, though, also, so go ahead.

Joe Rogan 0:45 Okay.

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:45 Yeah, very different. Let's just say, financially, we're coming from a different, very different place.

Joe Rogan 0:49 Okay.

Ari Matti Mustonen 0:49 But I try to use the Shure SM7B. We actually got, uh, for my podcast, uh, Tussisööd, shout out, here we are, um... It's Estonian, you're not gonna... Well, AI maybe.

Joe Rogan 0:59 What did you just shout out?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01 Tussisööd. It means, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:02 What?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02 Um, it means, uh, direct, uh, translation is, uh, Pussy Munchers. It's my podcast.

Joe Rogan 1:07 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09 So you have... Is it in Estonian?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:11 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:11 Wow.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:12 And it's the-

Joe Rogan 1:12 Do you think Spotify will translate it to English?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:14 Dude.

Joe Rogan 1:14 Maybe you'll be the first that goes the opposite way.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:16 Bro, if AI f- translate this podcast, I'm fucked, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:20 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:20 Yeah, yeah, like-

Joe Rogan 1:21 Oh, take it down.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:22 See, this is the thing. They're gonna do that.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:24 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Spotify is going to do that with-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:26 But they don't get my charisma and timing down, though.

Joe Rogan 1:28 No. Also, sense of humor, sarcasm, and when you translate that to English, they-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:32 I'm just gonna say...

Joe Rogan 1:33 ... you sound like a Nazi. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:35 I will be a Nazi.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Dude, it's gonna be.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:37 I'm so scared.

Joe Rogan 1:37 That's the problem with satire and, and humor and what is, for lack of a better term, it's called talking shit, okay? And this is what we do on podcasts, this is what we do in the green room, this is what me and my friends love to do all the time, right? We do that all the time. We say things we don't mean 'cause it's funny. We s- th- say things that are inappropriate because it's funny.

Ari Matti Mustonen 2:03 Enough.

Joe Rogan 2:03 And it is 100% done with fun. And the problem is today, people like to take things and pretend you're saying something when that's not what you're saying.

Ari Matti Mustonen 2:14 Yeah, there's a funny comedian in, uh, in Canada. He's an American dude who moved to Vancouver. He's Dino Archie. He used to ha- say, "Off the record talk." You know?

Joe Rogan 2:23 Right. It's, it's shit talk.

Ari Matti Mustonen 2:25 It's like... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:25 We're talk... We d- we're not saying things that we mean. We're saying things that are fun to say. But what I was gonna get to before we did is that, the thing that Jamie told me about MS... Well, Tulsi Gabbard was the first person to tell me about it. So, I was talking about how great Tulsi Gabbard is, about if, uh, you know, you really wanted a great Democratic candidate that was a woman, woman of color, congresswoman for eight years, served overseas in a medical unit twice. It's where she got that gray streak in her hair. She's like a- an exemplary human being.

Ari Matti Mustonen 2:54 She likes my Kill Tony bits on Instagram, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:57 And they tried to say that I was talking about Kamala Harris, so they edited it out of context.

Ari Matti Mustonen 3:02 (gasps) Dude, I've seen your edited videos with ads because, see-

Joe Rogan 3:06 Yeah, there's a lot of AI ads that aren't really me.

Ari Matti Mustonen 3:08 Because, because Estonia is in Eastern Europe and the Russian bot system-

Joe Rogan 3:13 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 3:13 ... in that country...

Joe Rogan 3:14 It's crazy, right? Bro.

Ari Matti Mustonen 3:16 It's crazy. I've seen fake podcasts where there's a guy on your podcast-

Joe Rogan 3:21 Uh-huh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 3:21 ... which never has happened.

Joe Rogan 3:22 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 3:23 And the guy has a Shure SM7B, not this mic stand, let's be honest. (laughs) It's some shittier version and the backdrop is similar, but you can tell it's not that podcast.

Joe Rogan 3:32 Right. But you can do amazing things now with AI, you know? J- you could do it with video editing, for sure. Like you could just have a guy splice in, him being in this chair and me being in that chair, and if you did it right and you spent your time on it, you could make it very convincing. And that's just the beginning, man. I- there's a podcast with me and Steve Jobs. I never met Steve Jobs. There's like a, I think it's 40 minutes long. How long is the podcast with me and Steve Jobs? But it's a completely AI generated podcast.

Ari Matti Mustonen 4:00 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:00 It's just audio. But from what I've heard, it's... You can kinda tell, but it's getting close. It's getting to the point where you're not gonna be able to tell. Y- you know when you- you hear enough computer generated sentences, you're gonna catch little glitches in the matrix, you know? It's gonna sound a little off.

Ari Matti Mustonen 4:19 But you can only catch those g- uh, glitches in the matrix because you're a person who's also around technology, internet, so you kinda, kinda see the scam going on.

Joe Rogan 4:29 It's not a super visible scam. It's like a, "Oh, I see it" scam.

Ari Matti Mustonen 4:33 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 4:33 Yeah. So how long is it, J-

Jamie Vernon 4:35 20 minutes.

Joe Rogan 4:35 20 minutes, okay. So it's just me... Let me hear some of it. ... personality. They seem to have a soul in a way, and some people almost get religious about this stuff because it's so powerful and it means so much. Is that good?

Narrator 4:50 If a company gets to the point where it's successfully doing a few things, you don't have to try and do everything. We're in the process now of trying to cut the things we're doing so that we can concentrate on the few that are really high on our priority list, because if you try to do too many things, none of them get done well.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:05 Well, that transition-

Narrator 5:06 You've gotta focus on a few and make sure those are done well.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:07 ... looks shitty.

Joe Rogan 5:07 The transition's clunky, but even more importantly, the sound is very different between where... The environment that I'm talking in, the environment he's talking about.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:15 For sure.

Joe Rogan 5:16 So either he's not in the room, which I don't do.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:18 I don't do Zoom calls.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:20 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:20 Those suck.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Or, you know, that's fake.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:23 It's only, only two options.

Jamie Vernon 5:24 If an audio engineer just tweaked it for f-

Joe Rogan 5:26 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 5:26 ... two minutes, they could make it sound so much better.

Joe Rogan 5:29 Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 5:29 Make it way more real too.

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:29 Compression. Compression.

Joe Rogan 5:30 Yeah, you could, you could 100% make it sound like-

Jamie Vernon 5:33 Make some reverb on your voice.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Yeah, you could 100% make it sound like we're in the same room, but they didn't.

Jamie Vernon 5:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:37 But this is also, like how many months old? I think that's like...

Jamie Vernon 5:40 Yeah, that was two years ago.

Joe Rogan 5:41 Oh, crazy. So, what they have now is way better. They've... It's way better. It's getting to the point where we're not gonna know, and-

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:49 For sure.

Joe Rogan 5:50 ... we're not gonna know what things are, what things are real. What you can generate... You- you- I'm sure you've seen these, uh, un- the new Unreal engine?

Ari Matti Mustonen 5:57 Mm-hmm.

Jamie Vernon 5:57 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:57 The most complicated video game engine? What is it called, Engine 5? Is that what it's called?It's like, this is spooky.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:06 Yeah, for sure, dude.

Joe Rogan 6:07 This is so good- it's so good, it's spooky. It looks like a damn movie, like a real movie.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:11 Like, in Estonia, the movie industry is moving really well and the government was financing, uh, for a while, the building of like, um, like a movie fucking, I don't know, factory, or like a whole, you know, like a v- uh, production studio-

Joe Rogan 6:27 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:27 ... so, to which could bring more revenue to the country. Great idea.

Joe Rogan 6:31 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:31 But some, uh, it's been paused now and people are all like, "Why isn't it making?" But I know exactly why it's paused-

Joe Rogan 6:37 Why?

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:37 ... because they're waiting to see how this AI thing plays out.

Joe Rogan 6:40 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:40 Because let's be honest, green screens and shit?

Joe Rogan 6:43 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:44 That might be like fax machines, bro.

Joe Rogan 6:46 Yeah. It might be like Morse code.

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:49 Yeah, exactly. And it-

Joe Rogan 6:50 You know?

Ari Matti Mustonen 6:50 ... it happens like this.

Joe Rogan 6:51 Well, you saw that Tyler Perry shut down the plans to build this enormous studio. He's gonna build an $800 million production studio and he saw Sora.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:00 Tyler Perry?

Joe Rogan 7:00 He's the guy who does-

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:01 Is that the guy who-

Joe Rogan 7:01 ... all those Maeda movies. He's got a bunch of TV series.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:04 Oh. I thought he was the Extreme Makeover guy.

Joe Rogan 7:05 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:05 Move, god bus.

Joe Rogan 7:07 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:07 Remember that guy? Dude, that was my shit.

Joe Rogan 7:09 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:10 No, he's uh, he- he plays a lady in a f- in a bunch of famous movies.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:14 Yeah, yeah. He's the guy. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Maeda?

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:17 Yeah, yeah. So anyway, Point Maeda? Madea. Madea, that's right. Sorry. Um, point is, obviously super successful dude and has this enormous... This is the Unreal Engine 5. He has this enormous production company that he's about to build, and he goes (imitates brakes screeching) . He sees Sora and he's like, "What? You guys can do this now?"

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:37 You gotta see how that plays out.

Joe Rogan 7:39 Dude, it's gonna play out real strange.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:42 Because what- what you see already, so this is the video game. This d- this is art.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:46 Yes, it is.

Joe Rogan 7:46 This- this looks pretty good.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:48 Uh, it's okay.

Joe Rogan 7:48 It's just not as convincing as some of the other footage that I saw, the- the nighttime footage. There's something about daytime footage that looks a little clunky.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:55 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:56 Or- or a little better.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:57 Well, there's more reflections and shit.

Joe Rogan 7:58 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 7:59 I went to Redman's place-

Joe Rogan 8:00 This is pretty wild, though.

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:00 ... and tried the AI for the first time in my life.

Joe Rogan 8:03 Oh, nuts.

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:04 Uh, uh, he was saying like, he has a second life and they are happy with his girlfriend there, and they're like living in a whole nother world there.

Joe Rogan 8:13 Well, Redman's slightly insane, so... (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:15 I know, but that's i- the way he was ex- des- describing to me, I imagined it's like the Neo where I put the thing in my back-

Joe Rogan 8:21 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:21 ... and then, and I'm happy now. Uh, but it was, dog, it was literally PlayStation 2 graphics.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Whenever I wanna nerd out about electronics, it's always Redman. We- we always talk. We always talk about the newest phones or the newest this, or this does that, that does this.

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:36 Like, he's just a techno nerd.

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:39 He loves that shit, so he-

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:40 And he's already giving up on this life 'cause he knows VR is here.

Joe Rogan 8:43 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:45 That's a, such a Redman move, "I'm just gonna go and die."

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:47 Every time I tell him to eat something healthy... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:48 "But you know what?"

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:50 "AI is taking over, I'm just gonna get, my brain teleported."

Ari Matti Mustonen 8:53 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 8:53 I mean, that's the ultimate leap, right? Imagine if they get to a point where they say, "We can download your brain into a computer, but you will cease to exist right here, right now, and you just have to assume that it's, whatever consciousness is in your head is your life."

Ari Matti Mustonen 9:07 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 9:07 And it's not just a faction of that consciousness being in a very particular state in time.

Ari Matti Mustonen 9:13 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:14 That consciousness being attached to this particular biological body in this particular place. Like, what makes you you? And if you take that shit out and stick it in a machine, what kind of horrific existence is that? What's screaming into the abyss-

Ari Matti Mustonen 9:30 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:31 ... unattached from a body, but trapped, trapped in a newly created computer-

Ari Matti Mustonen 9:36 Oh, Matrix.

Joe Rogan 9:36 ... dimension because you didn't- you didn't get to go to heaven 'cause you got trapped in a metal box. And maybe that's how the aliens contain souls. Maybe that's how they get them.

Ari Matti Mustonen 9:46 Matrix was basically that whole...

Joe Rogan 9:48 Yeah. That's the thing, make, get you to think that you can download your soul-

Ari Matti Mustonen 9:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:51 ... into a computer, like, "Well, I'm gonna live forever. Gonna download my soul into a computer." And what all you're doing is you're so smart that you're stupid enough to think that technology is capable of recreating you as a whole.

Ari Matti Mustonen 10:06 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Not just your consciousness, but what, what if your fingernails have memories, motherfucker?

Ari Matti Mustonen 10:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:12 What if your whole...

Ari Matti Mustonen 10:13 Oh.

Joe Rogan 10:13 What if it all is a part of a system, and disconnected from that system, your soul is just like, (screams) just separated from love forever?

Ari Matti Mustonen 10:26 That was what I really liked in The Matrix franchise. Remember when they got out of the matrix, they went to Zion? There was that scene where they were fucking, and then there was that scene where they were dancing, and the whole thing, um, who was the fucking... Mor- Morpheus was explaining that, yeah, you're not feeling the things with your physical body in this matrix world, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:47 Mm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 10:47 You're going through, it's just the synapses are firing in the machine.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Mm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 10:51 And I remember, 'cause I was like, a teenager when I saw that movie, and I remember that scene when they were fucking, and I was like, "Oh, shit." See, that's the thing if you download your brain-

Joe Rogan 11:00 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:00 ... into a system and then they came back. The world was shitty. Remember how shitty-

Joe Rogan 11:05 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:05 ... Zion looked? Like race c-

Joe Rogan 11:07 Terrible.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:08 Terrible. No beaches.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Like us in 50 years.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:10 And then they were eating rem- remember that food, everything the body needs?

Joe Rogan 11:13 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:13 Remember that gulp?

Joe Rogan 11:14 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:15 But I remember when they did that dancing scene, I remember that like, uh, like inspiring a thought where I'm like, "Huh, maybe even if there is a secondary fucking-"

Joe Rogan 11:24 There it is.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:25 "... AI world that comes." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:27 There'll be rebellion.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:28 See, that's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 11:29 No, no question whatsoever.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:30 That's why I love when people go, "Is AI gonna destroy standup comedy?" I always love to say that standup, luckily, is the art form that can comment on its own demise, kinda, you know?

Joe Rogan 11:42 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:43 Like even if AI-

Joe Rogan 11:44 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:44 ... creates the perfect act, the perfect ha-ha-ha laughs per minute-

Joe Rogan 11:47 Right, right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:48 ... there's gonna be... You're gonna be able to comment on how fucked that is-

Joe Rogan 11:52 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 11:52 ... you know? So...

Joe Rogan 11:53 Yeah, 100%. And then on top of that, the, what really, what we're really doing is we're performing for live audiences.

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:03 And so how's AI gonna do that?

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:05 Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 12:06 Like, there's a thing that happens when you see a singer on stage, when someone's got an incredible voice and you see them sing, and that- that voice just echoes. Or someone like Gary Clark Jr.'s playing guitar, where you're in the room while they're hitting those keys, you're like, "Goddamn."

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:20 And then there's the story... It's not even only the technique and the incredible voice. It's also-

Joe Rogan 12:26 It's the human experience.

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:26 ... the- the history of his experience.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:29 I remember when I was like, uh, when I was like 19, I worked at a jazz bar. Didn't know shit about jazz. I don't know shit about music, I don't know how to play. Do you know how to play anything?

Joe Rogan 12:36 No, I don't know how to play anything.

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:37 Literally, I don't know how to draw or play any... Like, my hands just don't work like that.

Joe Rogan 12:43 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:43 I tried guitar, it just doesn't happen. Dudes are just... And they're like, "Feel the..." Uh- uh, nothing, this connection, nothing's happening.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Interesting.

Ari Matti Mustonen 12:52 But I remember working at that bar. There was like, um, there was a famous Estonian guy, uh, who was, uh, performing like an unplugged... He was like a rock star. And he was performing an unplugged version on the weekends, you know? And technically, he sounded amazing. He was an amazing guitar player. But he was a young guy, maybe only five years older than me. Technically perfect from the traditional training, the school, he had all the things. And for me, that sounds amazing, right? But then I remember we started having, uh, 'cause he was turning, uh, we had blues nights on Tuesdays, and the owner would fly out from America, like New Orleans, these 65-year-old Black dudes that live a rough life. You can see from their face, from the way they move, it's been a rough life. And the way they would sing, maybe technically it wouldn't be, sound as clean, but what you would feel... 'Cause I was bartending and I would look at the audiences and I would see them also, you feel it.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 13:55 You can't explai- uh, dude, I don't know. Of course, later when I got to be friends with musicians there, they would explain, they would be like, "No, no, no, that guy, the other guy was doing the basic A, B, C, D, D, D."

Joe Rogan 14:06 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:06 "He's doing a whole different shit right now."

Joe Rogan 14:08 Right. So it's something that only the people that really know how to play recognize.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:13 Like standup.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:14 But I feel it.

Joe Rogan 14:16 I think that's the case with everything, man. I really do. I think that's the case with everything.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:21 Everything.

Joe Rogan 14:21 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:22 Especially art.

Joe Rogan 14:23 I think everything with, that, it's a true form of expression. You know, even like ga- chess, I think games people play. I think it's, I think, I think it exists in everything, you know?

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:34 'Cause I remember, I even, uh, remember, uh, when there was... Remember peer-to-peer before torrents?

Joe Rogan 14:39 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:39 It was peer-to-peer.

Joe Rogan 14:40 Sure.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:41 What did you guys have? Kazaa, iMesh.

Joe Rogan 14:43 What did we have? What was that one?

Jamie Vernon 14:45 They mem- they mem- we had 'em all, for sure.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:46 Kazaa, iMesh-

Joe Rogan 14:46 But what was the one that everybody used?

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:48 ... LimeWire.

Joe Rogan 14:48 What was the one that everybody used?

Jamie Vernon 14:50 We started off with Napster, and then we went into Kazaa-

Joe Rogan 14:52 Metallica sued Napster.

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:53 Oh, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 14:53 ... LimeWire and Morpheus.

Joe Rogan 14:54 Yeah, Na- I remember the Napster days, but like-

Ari Matti Mustonen 14:56 Metallica sued Napster, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:57 Then... Oh, yeah, yeah. Lars Ulrich was very upset.

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:01 And- and so it was-

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:02 He was-

Joe Rogan 15:02 Um, uh, I had, um, Paul Stanley from KISS on the podcast.

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:05 Wow.

Joe Rogan 15:06 And he's just flat out saying, "Those people are stealing. They're stealing money." And, you know, my position, it was very... I was like, okay, a bomb just went off. And you could either recognize you have a hole in the ship or you can go full steam ahead with the original plan and this motherfucker's gonna sink. Okay?

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:22 It's like the cartoon when Tom and Jerry, when he's trying to- the ship is sinking.

Joe Rogan 15:26 The moment music becomes a digital piece of information that can be uploaded to a hard drive. The moment that happens, it's over.

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:37 So if you don't realize that the war has been lost and devise some sort of monetization of streaming platform, make it simpler, quicker-

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:46 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 15:46 ... faster than anybody else's, and then get it up there quick... Because (laughs) like, that's, they should have done that the moment Napster came out.

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:54 They should have hired like the best coders.

Ari Matti Mustonen 15:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:56 And said, "Okay, there is no way you're stopping this." Like, we did... The- the- the dam broke, water's coming through, and record sales-

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:05 Build boats.

Joe Rogan 16:06 ... are gone.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:06 Build boats. The dam-

Joe Rogan 16:06 Record sales just went away.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:08 So quickly.

Joe Rogan 16:10 Guys were making millions and millions of dollars from record sales, and then they'd go on tour. And they'd make-

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:17 But even live touring was on a down slope because you didn't need to do that that much. Record sales was the bag.

Joe Rogan 16:24 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:24 That's why Madonna went back on tour. I mean-

Joe Rogan 16:26 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:26 I don't- I don't know this, but that's probably-

Joe Rogan 16:28 She probably also wanted to say what's up. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:30 For sure.

Joe Rogan 16:31 Let bitches know.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:32 For sure.

Joe Rogan 16:32 She's still around.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:33 For sure.

Joe Rogan 16:33 You know?

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:34 But there's a lot of bands that went back on tour for that very reason.

Joe Rogan 16:37 Uh-huh. Yeah, for sure, definitely. Yeah, they- their- their revenue dried up.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:42 Which is crazy that one of the biggest entertainment businesses in the world lost all of its sales revenue from recordings. I mean, I don't know. It didn't lose all of it. I'm sure some people still buy some of them, but like, the drop off must have been crazy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 16:58 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Crazy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:00 'Cause it was... Remember, it was all like, it was like, uh, you guys had not cassettes. What did you guys have? Uh, H- A- A-track. H-

Joe Rogan 17:06 We had A-tracks first.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:07 A-tracks.

Joe Rogan 17:07 And then we had cassettes-

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:09 ... and then we had compact discs.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:10 Yeah, we only got cassettes. Then it was CDs. So the format was always changing.

Joe Rogan 17:15 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:15 And then it was the Blu-ray and the Microsoft-

Joe Rogan 17:18 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:18 ... whatever format they had, battle. So there's always that battle of data. Then for a while, like USBs were tried, you know-

Joe Rogan 17:25 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:25 ... when they would sell small USBs.

Joe Rogan 17:27 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:27 But then just the internet was like, hmm, physical-

Joe Rogan 17:31 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:31 ... it was over.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Isn't that crazy? And not only that, it's way better.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:35 Way better.

Joe Rogan 17:35 Like the... Imagine if YouTube was just a bunch of discs that you had to get. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:40 Dude.

Joe Rogan 17:41 How stupid that would be.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:42 I would ne- But then again-

Joe Rogan 17:43 But that's a good example of how much things have changed.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:46 Is the fact that YouTube exists, and that YouTube is not a stack of discs that you have to go to a library or a bookstore to get.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:55 YouTube just exists instantaneously.

Ari Matti Mustonen 17:58 But then again, there was that magic of like... I feel lucky at least to have that childhood where I remember-

Joe Rogan 18:04 Oh, yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 18:04 ... that my attention was actually not raped by technology that much. But I had to actually look forward to consuming something and work physical exertion to get it, go to the DVD thing. You would read the back, you would look at the-

Joe Rogan 18:20 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 18:20 You would put... It's- it's, there's a more maybe commitment to consumption.

Joe Rogan 18:26 I think it's gonna be very interesting when we look back on human beings in-... I think we're in the middle of it right now, so we probably don't really objectively understand how much of an impact it's had on us, 'cause it's sort of trickled in slowly with just regular cell phones, and then, like, remember those Sidekicks? People had the Sidekicks so you could send texts on? Where it would go sideways, remember? We were like, "Wow, that's crazy." That was, like, next level. And then BlackBerrys, if you were fucking serious, if you're really getting some shit done-

Ari Matti Mustonen 18:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:54 ... answering some emails-

Ari Matti Mustonen 18:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:54 ... you had a BlackBerry. And then when the iPhone came out, the whole game just fucking flipped on its head, and now all the sudden everyone's connected to everyone everywhere and everyone's anxious and freaking out. And I think that we grew up before that. And I, I'm older than you by far, so I grew up way before.

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:11 How old are you now? 32.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Yeah, so I'm 57... no, almost 57. I'll be 57-

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:15 And you're also like-

Joe Rogan 19:16 ... in a few days.

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:17 ... yeah, those very important years of life.

Joe Rogan 19:20 That's the big, the big transition years, because it was a, uh, uh, a series of factors that happened in my lifetime. Number one, answering machines. Like, what the fuck? You could-

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:28 I never had that.

Joe Rogan 19:28 ... call someone and leave a message?

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:30 I never had that.

Joe Rogan 19:30 And you would come home and your answering machine light would be like a little dog. Like, if the red light was going on like, "Oh, somebody loves me."

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:36 How exciting.

Joe Rogan 19:36 "Someone loves me, someone loves me." And you'd go listen to your messages.

Ari Matti Mustonen 19:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:39 And then it got to a point where you could call your own phone and get your answering machine to play you your messages. That was next level shit. Okay? Crazy technology. We couldn't believe it. You got to see caller ID, who's calling you. (gasps) And then you get to call them back, "Star69 what's up?" You know, and then VHS tapes come along.

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:00 Maybe, maybe not even and then. It was kind of along the same soup, 'cause it all happened while I was in high school. So while I was in high school, there was probably answering machines before I was in high school, but I was aware of them in high school, then caller ID, and then VHS tapes, all that happened. So now all of a sudden you could just get, get stuff and play it any time you wanted to.

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:19 So it changed, like, watching movies. You could pause it if you had to take a leak. The whole thing changed. People started watching movies at home. Blockbuster-

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:26 ... became a giant thing. Nobody would've imagined Blockbuster's gonna go bye-bye. Nobody. It was the thing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:32 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 20:32 You go to Blockbuster on Friday night, you see what's the fucking latest movies. "Oh great, there's one left."

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:37 Yeah. We had, like, a Video Planet. It was like the top five most making money fucking companies of-

Joe Rogan 20:42 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:42 ... in the country.

Joe Rogan 20:43 Imagine. They just, they were, they were on an ice cube. They were on an ice cube and a hot piece of tea.

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:48 That's what I'm always wondering is what is the industry right now that doesn't even know?

Joe Rogan 20:52 I think there's a lot of them.

Ari Matti Mustonen 20:53 Oh, oh, lot of.

Joe Rogan 20:53 I think there's a lot of them. I think there's... I don't think it's a. I think AI is gonna fuck up this system that we have going for us.

Ari Matti Mustonen 21:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:01 I think that's why, that's part of the reason why there's a lot of sc- sc- scrambling and, and clamoring for power right now.

Ari Matti Mustonen 21:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Because I think people have a real understanding at the highest level that it's only... we only have so much more time before this AI thing becomes one of the most enormous aspects of society. And the, the power consumption that it's gonna need is astronomical. It's cra-

Ari Matti Mustonen 21:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:29 They're literally building nuclear power plants for these fucking things, and they're going full throttle. Duh! And we're headed towards whatever this is and no one knows. And I think that's one of the reasons why governments are trying to crack down on social media and trying to, you know-

Ari Matti Mustonen 21:44 Control it.

Joe Rogan 21:45 ... control it and stop people from saying things.

Ari Matti Mustonen 21:47 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 21:48 And in the UK they're arresting people for saying certain things, like-

Ari Matti Mustonen 21:51 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:51 They're trying to, like, stop this thing from overwhelming them, and you can't. It's gonna overwhelm all of us. It's not just gonna overwhelm government. It's gonna overwhelm civilization, and it's gonna happen in a bunch of stages, just like it happened with us, where we got caller ID, we got answering machines, we got VHS tapes, then we got computers, then we got online, and then we got 14.4, then we got 56K, and then, then you started seeing pictures show up, like they-

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:21 Da- da- da- da- da-

Joe Rogan 22:21 ... they download them nice and slow. And then people got cable. "Oh my God, you get cable internet?" So people had cable internet where you could just, like-

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:28 Remember how many pixels porn used to have? Like, how ma- how low-

Joe Rogan 22:31 Oh, it was blurry as fuck.

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:33 I remember I had a point when I was, like, par- like, mom goes to store and you know how... you ask which store so you know how much time you got in the bank.

Joe Rogan 22:40 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:41 And I remember, like, jacking off and just halfway through the video it's two dudes. I just didn't... the pixels, it was just such shitty quality.

Joe Rogan 22:49 That's uncomfortable.

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:50 It was just very... well-

Joe Rogan 22:51 Didn't you know when they were both sucking each other's dicks that something was up?

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:54 Yeah, when there was... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:56 (laughs) And he's going, "Where is the girl?" (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 22:59 Yeah. (laughs) When is she coming in?

Joe Rogan 23:01 (claps hands) Ah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:03 But it was, like, in a sauna in the dark, and I saw the dude's, like, h- hog hanging.

Joe Rogan 23:08 Whoa.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:08 But he had a nice butt and it all looked legit.

Joe Rogan 23:10 Do you ever get flashed in the sauna by a dude?

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:12 Uh, well, flash, we only go naked. You know that, right?

Joe Rogan 23:15 Oh, in your country?

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:16 Of course.

Joe Rogan 23:16 That's why you guys-

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:16 And if you have pants on, that's creepy and that's weird. If you come with pants-

Joe Rogan 23:20 Interesting.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:20 ... we would have an issue.

Joe Rogan 23:21 Really?

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:21 Because it's weird. What are you hiding? What's the thing? You have a boner?

Joe Rogan 23:24 My dick.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:24 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 23:24 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:25 What's going on?

Joe Rogan 23:25 Dude's just staring at my dick. I'd rather just put my underwear on.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:27 We all stare at each other's dicks. I've seen-

Joe Rogan 23:29 Good luck with that.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:30 Like, in the green room-

Joe Rogan 23:31 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:31 In the green room, comedians were talking about how many dicks they've seen in their lifetime, and I remember they were lay- saying, like, numbers. "Bro, I've seen thou- 10-"

Joe Rogan 23:40 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:40 "I've seen 16 to 22,000 dicks."

Joe Rogan 23:42 Do you think that's healthy?

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:47 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:47 Yeah, it's normal, you know.

Joe Rogan 23:48 Normal shit.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:49 Normal shit.

Joe Rogan 23:50 Just looking at dicks.

Ari Matti Mustonen 23:51 And then sometimes I remember in high school we all showered together. There was always one weird kid that would not shower with us, and you make fun of him. Show me, uh, "What are you... what's going on? Why didn't you show us your dick?" You know.

Joe Rogan 24:01 (laughs) That's funny.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:02 And then sometimes the showe- shower would be a bit warm and you would get a little bit of a vein going there, you know, you get a little bit-

Joe Rogan 24:07 Not good.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:08 ... of 25%. Dude, ooh-wee, boy.

Joe Rogan 24:10 Not good. And then you're lathering it down?

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:12 Yeah. Oh yeah. Trying to just fucking mentally just make it-

Joe Rogan 24:16 Uh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:17 ... go away.

Joe Rogan 24:19 Yeah. Naked dudes in sho- in saunas is an odd thing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:23 I only feel comfortable when it's naked.

Joe Rogan 24:24 There was a, um... (laughs) I used to, I used to be a member of 24 Hour Fitness in Woodland Hills, California, and the guy was the manager there. He was this cool guy, I used to talk to him all the time-

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:34 ... my friend Eddie.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:35 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:35 And I used to lift there, and he was, uh, the former manager of the West Hollywood one, so he said... he goes, "Bro, the West Hollywood 24 Hour Fitness..."... he goes, "It was basically like a gay hookup spot." That's all it was. Like these guys would just go HAM.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Just get after each other.

Ari Matti Mustonen 24:54 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:54 And like you'd have to say, "Hey, don't do that." But it's like you've got guys who wanna fuck guys hanging out, all working out together and getting sweaty-

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:03 ... with like guy mentality.

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:06 You know, like, "Come on, let's do it here." Like, yeah, and they're doing it there and they're-

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:09 Fuck it.

Joe Rogan 25:09 ... and there's all guys that are gay there, so they're like-

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:12 ... "What are you gonna do?" (laughs) And he was like, "Dude, it was crazy." He goes, "I used to have to stop people from fucking in the sauna."

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:18 The smell in the sa-

Joe Rogan 25:19 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:19 ... in the showers must have been.

Joe Rogan 25:20 I'm sure they don't do that anymore, folks.

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:22 I'm sure that's all been cleaned up. But back then, he was telling me it was bananas.

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:26 I can imagine that 24 Play- uh, Pla- the Fitness still existing, and then this podcast coming out and there's just 800 gay dudes waiting.

Joe Rogan 25:33 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:33 Fuck. They're like, "Joe Rogan, can you stop saying this is the suck and fuck spot?"

Joe Rogan 25:38 G- make sure there is a... Make sure it's the right gym. I don't wanna...

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:42 Oh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:43 I don't want to, uh, slander anyone.

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:45 But, um...

Joe Rogan 25:46 There is a 24 Hour Fitness, right? 'Cause I know there's another one. There's another gym like that. And I used to actually work out at a, a gym that was in a gay neighborhood. I used to have a bit about it. I used to work out at Gold's Gym-

Ari Matti Mustonen 25:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:57 ... on Cole. And, uh, it was in full on West Hollywood, like super gay (laughs) super gay gym. But it was really close to the studio where we filmed Newsradio, so I just got a membership there. So I'd get off work and I'd go lift. And I'd just go lift with these like hungry gay dudes. These dudes were hungry, man. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:15 It was-

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:15 And they like look at you and...

Joe Rogan 26:17 They're friendly. Nobody fucked with me.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Nobody like... No, uh, unwanted attention or anything like that. But, uh, I didn't take a lot of showers there.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:25 I remember there was an old guy at the gym.

Joe Rogan 26:27 (coughs)

Jamie Vernon 26:27 It was, it was right in the middle of Santa Monica Boulevard.

Joe Rogan 26:29 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 26:29 It's closed now.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:30 Good.

Jamie Vernon 26:30 As of probably last year or two.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Oh, good. Okay, good, good, good. It's closed. Okay.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:33 So Gold's is, uh... The Gold's on Cole is the one I'm talking about.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:37 Yeah, that's the one that's not West Hollywood. That's like East Hollywood-

Joe Rogan 26:40 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:41 ... or whatever, technically.

Joe Rogan 26:41 Whatever it was, it was gay. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 26:44 But like men, you know? Like big, hairy, muscular gay dudes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:50 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Looking for more of that.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:52 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:52 So it's like yikes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:53 Men fucking men.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Yeah. It's like a, a wounded gazelle-

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:57 ... running through a pack of hyenas.

Ari Matti Mustonen 26:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Like, "Excuse me, pardon me, just wanna get to the river." (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:02 I remember there was an older guy in my gym and, uh, that was the first time I also experienced where it's like... It's an old guy, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:12 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:12 I could fucking... I'm not threatened, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:14 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:14 I'm not threatened. But the look he had in his eyes just made me feel vulnerable for s-... You know? It's weird.

Joe Rogan 27:23 Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 27:23 God.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:23 'Cause he wanted to penetrate you. 'Cause men have a certain... And I remember then I started thinking-

Joe Rogan 27:27 Hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:27 ... and this was when I was like younger and I... That was the first time I started thinking and, "Oh, shit, that's how women feel." Plus the physical.

Joe Rogan 27:35 Oh, yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:36 Like, that's like Brock Lesnar-

Joe Rogan 27:38 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:38 ... looking at you like... You know, that's like, uh, you know.

Joe Rogan 27:42 Dude, I-

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:43 I-

Joe Rogan 27:43 ... I have had gay guys hit on me that I could kill.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:46 Uh-

Joe Rogan 27:46 And it made me uncomfortable.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:48 That guy-

Joe Rogan 27:48 Like, it just, it just gets to this like, "Hey, you know I'm not gay, so what are you doing?"

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:53 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 27:53 "Like this is... You're just trying to make me uncomfortable."

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:54 Exactly. And he would-

Joe Rogan 27:55 And then you would get nervous.

Ari Matti Mustonen 27:56 And this old guy would give me looks and I would just feel... And it was the first time in my life. I'm just like, "Dude, I'm jacked, I'm doing fucking MMA, but I'm feeling vulnerable."

Joe Rogan 28:06 Weird.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:06 And then at one point in the shower, this was like, um... You know when showers have the booths, you know, the separation booths?

Joe Rogan 28:13 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:13 And it was me and him. So I go in the sauna. It- it's, it... The gym is empty. I go in the sauna, I'm alone and Dick's up... It's Dick Nation, you know?

Joe Rogan 28:22 Dick Nation.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:22 It's Estonia. So I'm in the sauna. I hear the shower door open. And in my head, I know... You know in your head, you're like-

Joe Rogan 28:31 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:31 ... "There's other people at this gym, but let me bet." 'Cause I saw him-

Joe Rogan 28:35 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:35 ... looking at me. I go, "Let me bet."

Jamie Vernon 28:38 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:38 And you know it. He comes in, he sees one towel up, you know, so there's somebody in the sauna.

Joe Rogan 28:43 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 28:43 He comes to the sauna. I wait for him to go to the showers first, because I know if I go, the next booth over, this guy's joining. So he goes into the corner. I pick the opposite corner. And then at one point, I'm showering and I just... It's that human thing. It's that human thing where you feel something is watch-... Or something...

Joe Rogan 29:06 Hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:07 There's a tension.

Joe Rogan 29:08 Tension.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:08 And I look through the fucking, uh, all the, all the separation booths. They had a small gap, uh, that you can see through all of them. And in the-

Joe Rogan 29:15 And he's got shampoo-

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:17 And in the-

Joe Rogan 29:17 ... and he's going knuckles up.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:18 ... other end, I just see his one eye like this.

Joe Rogan 29:23 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:23 And his dick in his hand.

Joe Rogan 29:24 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:25 He's not jacking off.

Joe Rogan 29:26 He's just holding onto it.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:27 But something's going on.

Joe Rogan 29:28 He's getting ready. He's warming up.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:31 He's showing you that he's got a, he's got a dick.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:33 But then, and he, and he had this look.

Joe Rogan 29:36 Serious.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:37 Angry.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:38 And I'm leaving the gym and I'm passing... And I know the administrator girls working at the gym. I pass them and in my head, I'm thinking, "I just got like sexually assaulted, actually." Right?

Joe Rogan 29:51 No, that's not assault.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:52 Two-

Joe Rogan 29:52 Don't be a baby.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:53 Yeah, exact-... See-

Joe Rogan 29:54 No, he, he made you feel creepy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:56 Made me feel creepy.

Joe Rogan 29:57 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 29:57 So I feel, "I can't keep this in." I turn around, I go to the administrator, I go, "Hey..." And we're laughing about it. I go, "This fucking old guy..." And then we wait. And he takes like 40 to 50 minutes to come out of that shower. But see, what I think is he's shameful 'cause-

Joe Rogan 30:13 Oh, yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:13 And he comes out. Uh, his face is red, he has a hoodie on, and he's just ran out of the gym. Never came back.

Joe Rogan 30:20 Oh, wow.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:20 I think he just... That's that post nut-

Joe Rogan 30:22 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:23 You know?

Joe Rogan 30:24 Well, he probably is embarrassed that he did it-

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:26 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 30:26 ... again.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:28 You know?

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:28 It's probably one of those things. He's probably been kicked out of gyms before.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:31 Like he's like got a exit strategy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:34 That's what he does. He's a shower jerker.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:36 Those exist. That's why I don't like walking around naked. Okay? Like if you were a woman (laughs) and, uh, you have your beautiful vagina, uh, and there are co-ed showers, would you be... really be comfortable washing your butthole and your vagina in front of a bunch of men? No, of course not.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:51 We, we, we are.

Joe Rogan 30:52 Right? So gay guys are real.

Ari Matti Mustonen 30:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:54 And, uh, if your little booty hole and your little dick is out flopping around in front of them, um...... to me, as a person who d- doesn't want any of that, I would have- I would imagine that I would not enjoy watching someone stare a- at my Johnson...

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:13 ... who wants a...

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:15 ... (slurring words) wants to take a piece and suck on it.

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:18 (laughs) And they, no, you know what I'm saying? Like, okay, that's, uh, we don't need to think about that.

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:23 But I think we have just, uh, culturally-

Joe Rogan 31:24 Men think that way. That's why you can't have men in a room with naked girls.

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:29 We, we did that as though, uh, b- in our culture, we all, uh, uh, when I was a little kid, I saw grown pussy all the time in saunas.

Joe Rogan 31:35 This is, this is why your country's so fucked up. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:38 'Cause you, you guys, you, you barely survived Viking wars, and then what's left over, you know, you're just a bunch of fucking maniacal crazy people-

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:47 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 31:47 ... showing each other's pussies and dicks to each other.

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:49 Do it.

Joe Rogan 31:49 I feel like some things should be sacred. That's what I'm saying. Like, I have no problem with being around gay guys, but I don't think I should be showing them my cock.

Ari Matti Mustonen 31:57 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 31:57 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I don't think that's the right move. Uh-huh. (laughs) I also don't think ladies- Uh-huh. ... as comfortable as you are naked, should be in a room full of men and just show your bare pussy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:05 That seems problematic.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:07 It seems like it's gonna cause issues for you.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Like, I, I wouldn't do that if I was you. You know, if you wanna wear a bikini, great, everything's covered. Which is like, how funny is that? The bikini thing is hilarious, you know? That there's this little tiny little piece of cloth, little tiny little piece.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:24 You know on Instagram, they have that little-

Joe Rogan 32:26 Little, little Dorito.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:28 And you see-

Joe Rogan 32:28 It's-

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:29 All I don't see is the actual episi- but...

Joe Rogan 32:33 By the way, I like it. (laughs) I'm not, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, please don't stop wearing them, I think they're great.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:40 I like G-strings, I like girls with beautiful bodies expressing themselves-

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:46 ... wearing whatever they wanna wear. (laughs) I'm just saying, it's so different than shorts. (laughs) Like, if a dude wears Speedos, he's a freak. Right? A dude in Speedos, unless you're in your fucking country.

Ari Matti Mustonen 32:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 32:57 But a dude in America in Speedos is a weirdo. Or Speedo Nation, baby. Some dude in Speedos, that guy's a weirdo. (laughs) If you don't have goggles on, if you didn't come from a long-ass swim, you fucking weirdo. Why are you wearing Speedos? Everybody wears shorts.

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:10 But ladies, Desperate Crisis, Speedo.

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:12 That's Estonia every, every stepdad, every, every man I've ever seen growing up, I've seen their dick.

Joe Rogan 33:18 That's inflammation in its human form.

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:21 Like that. That is true, that is an inflamed body.

Joe Rogan 33:22 (laughs) That's an inflamed body.

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:24 That's, I wouldn't recommend that. Um, but... (laughs) ... the, that, that's what makes the G-string funnier, right? The Speedos, that's what makes all of it funnier. But it's just, it's funny, the difference between, like, okay, f- women's formerel- formal attire, right? So, not even formal but like, say, a woman who's a presenter on television.

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:44 Right? Skirt, no problem. Bare toes, open, open-toed shoes, no problem at all. Have one of them ones that dangles off your foot a little bit-

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:54 ... not all the way on.

Ari Matti Mustonen 33:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:55 No one cares. Vagina curtain that covers about 12 inches from your waist down, that's fine.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:03 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:04 Boobs...

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:04 All out.

Joe Rogan 34:05 ... pressed out together and pushed up and forward.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:09 I love how that's formal.

Joe Rogan 34:10 No sleeves. No sleeves.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:13 Bare arms, as much skin as you could possibly get without being naked.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:19 And to be dressed on television.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:21 And that's formal.

Joe Rogan 34:21 Lipstick. Mm. (kissing sounds)

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:25 Yeah. They're always hot.

Joe Rogan 34:26 (sighs) Painted nails.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:28 Painted toenails.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:30 Everything smoothed and polished and shaved. That's fine. That's the news.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:36 This is totally fine. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:37 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And that's formal, you know?

Joe Rogan 34:40 Imagine if men, uh, i- imagine if men in gym shorts and tank tops were giving the news, how fucking stupid it would look. Imagine if, like, all these people that you see on the news, or like, imagine Don Lemon in his boxer shorts with a tank top on-

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:58 ... giving the news.

Ari Matti Mustonen 34:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:59 Well, that's kind of what, like, a dress is.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:01 For sure.

Joe Rogan 35:02 A sh- a dress with a skirt for those Fox News ladies, how is that different than me in, like, these shorts that I'm wearing right now and a tank top?

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:10 How is-

Joe Rogan 35:11 How is it different?

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:11 It's just less threatening maybe, and it's nice.

Joe Rogan 35:14 It's, it's nice.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:15 It's nice.

Joe Rogan 35:15 I don't wanna discourage it. I just think, how crazy is the difference between what men wear versus what women wear?

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:21 We have a jacket on, like it's cold out.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:24 We have a, a fucking vest and a tie and a shirt and all this shit, and women can essentially be almost naked.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:33 And you only assume they have underwear on.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:37 That might be a thrill, if you don't have underwear on the news.

Joe Rogan 35:40 Yeah. Well, if she had underwear on, maybe you'd be able to see it through the garments on the outside, that would be terrible.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:44 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 35:45 That would ruin the look.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:46 Ruin the look.

Joe Rogan 35:47 That would, uh, yeah, uh, no one's gonna look at my pussy. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:54 Have, have you ever had a girl like that? Did you go to a nightclub and they are not wearing underwear?

Joe Rogan 35:58 (clicks tongue) I have not.

Ari Matti Mustonen 35:59 And then they tell you.

Joe Rogan 35:59 I would imagine that's a wild lady.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:00 It's hot.

Joe Rogan 36:01 That's, yes. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:02 I was one time dancing with a girl.

Joe Rogan 36:04 And she told you?

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:05 No, she grabbed my hand, we were holding-

Joe Rogan 36:07 Whoa.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:07 And she went, you know, walking to the dance floor, you know how-

Joe Rogan 36:09 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:09 ... chicks just fucking push people out of the way and pull you.

Joe Rogan 36:12 Right?

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:12 Um, and then we get to the dance floor and she just pulls me by my, uh, huh, what is this? And it's all soaking.

Joe Rogan 36:18 Damn.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:19 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:20 She's a wild one.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:21 Wild one.

Joe Rogan 36:21 Viking babies. That's what that is, that's what it is.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:24 She is-

Joe Rogan 36:24 The, the survivors...

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:25 And she was-

Joe Rogan 36:26 Uh-huh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:26 ... uh, strong out there, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:27 Survivors...

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:28 She was really strong out there.

Joe Rogan 36:29 ... of the massacres.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:30 And she had, she was living in Australia, she had one of those Jeeps that has one of those fucking things up front that kills the kangaroos, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:36 Whoa.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:37 Just 'cause-

Joe Rogan 36:38 We saw one of those in, uh, San Antonio, right in front of the truck-

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:41 Or in front of the, the, uh, production trucks. Did you see that fucking crazy thing that guy had?

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:44 But the kangaroo ones are super, uh, tall-

Joe Rogan 36:46 Over the top?

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:46 ... because-

Joe Rogan 36:46 Oh, 'cause they're big.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:47 'Cause they're big.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Oh, right, right, right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:48 And it's just fucking, it looks Mad Max, it looks like I'm up front there, but...

Joe Rogan 36:52 (laughs) Dude, dude.

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:53 It looks crazy. And she had that Jeep, she had, like, horns.

Joe Rogan 36:56 Oh. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 36:56 And then the balls hanging from the back, you know, the ball- the soft balls that they put-

Joe Rogan 36:59 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:00 ... in the back, they had that. And she was just a fucking wild one.

Joe Rogan 37:03 Wow.

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:03 And... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:04 And they had a kangaroo shield in the front of her vehicle.

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:07 Yeah, yeah.And this was like when I visited Australia, and in my head, I was like, "Kangaroos are like cutie patooties." But when you go to Australia, they'll tell them like, "We hate them 'cause they just keep jumping in front of cars."

Joe Rogan 37:19 Well, they're everywhere now, too.

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:20 They're fucking everywhere.

Joe Rogan 37:21 They have a lot of kangaroos. They- it's a weird animal, man.

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:25 It's a marsupial? Like, it's so strange. They have a pouch, they keep their babies in their skin. How'd they develop a backpack? Like how did-

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:33 I-i-i-it is the insanest evolutionary-

Joe Rogan 37:35 How?

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:35 ... a little pouch.

Joe Rogan 37:36 How?

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:36 A bag.

Joe Rogan 37:37 How does that... Ho- I mean, how does nature make you get a bag?

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:42 Like, that's so crazy.

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:44 It's like one of the we- like, o- out of all the animals that like, where the fuck did that come from? Like, if you look at a deer and then you look at a elk, you can go, "Oh, I kind of see." You look at a moose, you look at a caribou, you're like, "Uh, I can kind of see." And then like, "What's that? And why is it only in this one spot?"

Ari Matti Mustonen 37:59 And why does it jump like-

Joe Rogan 38:00 Yo, is that an alien? What is that thing?

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:02 Why did it develop on Australia and nowhere else? What the fuck is that thing? And how come there's nothing that can kill it?

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:10 And how come you stand on your tail and do like a Steve-O kick?

Joe Rogan 38:14 Yeah, they kick you hard.

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:14 And do like a Steve-O kick.

Joe Rogan 38:15 They kick you hard.

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 They fuck you up. They disembowel people, man. You gotta be really careful with those fuckers.

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:21 Oh, and they're-

Joe Rogan 38:21 People die from the big ones. Are the big ones the gray ones? The- the gray ones are the big one or the red one?

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:27 And then-

Joe Rogan 38:27 Eddie, Eddie Ift went over there, he said he was walking through a backyard and there was like a six-foot tall kangaroo.

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:32 Jesus fucking Christ.

Joe Rogan 38:32 He thought it was fake. He thought it was fake. He didn't know what it was. And his friend was screaming at him, "Get... Turn around. Get the fuck away from it."

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:40 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 38:41 The red kangaroo. That's the big one?

Jamie Vernon 38:44 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:44 Dude, marsupial. That sounds like a fucking alien too.

Joe Rogan 38:47 100 pounds. So you gotta think, 100-pound thing that can run 43 miles an hour and could probably strangle you. Like those ones that are jacked. You ever see them when they-

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:57 Yeah, yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 38:58 ... like choke out dogs and shit?

Ari Matti Mustonen 38:59 Of course, dude.

Joe Rogan 38:59 Look at the fucking muscles in that thing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:01 Of course, dude.

Joe Rogan 39:02 What a freaky animal to have all over the place. But it just looks... Look at that one. (laughs) Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:07 I've seen all those pictures, by the way.

Joe Rogan 39:08 That's, that's one that went to my gym. That's Gold's Gym.

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:12 (laughs) Look at that dude.

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:14 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:14 That dude.

Joe Rogan 39:14 This guy is... (laughs) Yeah, he's just chilling, flaunting giant muscles just like... Look at the fucking guns on that dude. What's up, player. What's up. What's up, player. Do you imagine getting in a, a scratching match with that thing, with his giant claws?

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:26 What's up, player. No, no, you're done. I mean...

Joe Rogan 39:27 But they'll fuck you up, man. They're dangerous. And they're all over the place. But that was my question, like, what was supposed to be killing them? 'Cause there's no like infestations of wild animals like that unless something disrupts the ecosystem.

Ari Matti Mustonen 39:41 Huh.

Joe Rogan 39:42 You know, because you don't... Us- usually there's a balance, right? Like there's always gonna be a balance between wolves and antelope, or wolves and bears, wolves and deer, because they're gonna figure out who wins. And if the wolves kill off too many of the deer, then their population is gonna drop, they're gonna run out of food. And there's gonna be like some sort of consequences, and then their population drops down, and then the deer population comes back a little bit. Nature has a way of balancing itself out in most environments until human beings step in and start fucking with things.

Ari Matti Mustonen 40:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:15 So my question is like, what happened over in Australia that that thing, that one crazy animal becomes like hordes of them, swarms of them?

Ari Matti Mustonen 40:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:25 Like, you've seen... Sho- show some of those videos of the swarms of kangaroos just running. So these people are in their car and you see just like... I don't even know what the number is.

Ari Matti Mustonen 40:34 They, uh... And they're fast.

Joe Rogan 40:35 They're fast, but it's also like why are there so many of them? In any environment where there's something like this, there'd be something bigger that eats it. In every environment-

Ari Matti Mustonen 40:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:44 ... there'd be a bear, there'd be something. I guess Australia has crocodiles, but I don't think they're doing such a good job of killing these things.

Ari Matti Mustonen 40:51 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 40:51 Their natural predators are just like doglike animals. They're more like-

Joe Rogan 40:54 Oh, maybe the thylacine.

Ari Matti Mustonen 40:57 What the fuck is that?

Joe Rogan 40:58 Okay.

Jamie Vernon 40:58 Something.

Joe Rogan 40:59 The Tasmanian tiger that went extinct.

Ari Matti Mustonen 41:01 Oh.

Joe Rogan 41:01 That's, that's a, a native of Australia as well. That, they have that in Australia.

Ari Matti Mustonen 41:05 But they used to have to shoot so many kangaroos now.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Where is that, Jamie?

Jamie Vernon 41:08 Tasmanian wolf and a dingo and a wedge-tailed eagle.

Joe Rogan 41:12 Okay. So the humans probably killed all those animals. The humans probably killed all the dingoes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 41:18 And that, they had to kill...

Joe Rogan 41:18 And what was the other animal?

Jamie Vernon 41:20 Wedge-tailed eagle.

Joe Rogan 41:22 Makes sense. That's probably exactly what it is. So I bet... So the thylacine was Australian though, right?

Jamie Vernon 41:29 I mean, it says Tasmanian. I just typed in marsupial natural predators and mar- Tasmanian wolf is the first one listed.

Ari Matti Mustonen 41:34 Thylacine?

Joe Rogan 41:35 Tasmanian wolf. Yeah, but the thylacine, the, uh, Tasmanian tiger.

Jamie Vernon 41:39 And then yeah, it says Tasmanian tiger before they were extinct, and also humans.

Joe Rogan 41:43 Was that ever in Australia or am I making that up? I feel like that's in Australia.

Jamie Vernon 41:48 I mean, it definitely was in the movies as far as I know.

Ari Matti Mustonen 41:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:50 Right, that movie with the... There's a good movie about a guy who goes to kill it because they're trying to find it, the last thylacine.

Ari Matti Mustonen 41:57 Huh.

Joe Rogan 41:57 The... What the fuck is his... Willem Dafoe.

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:00 Huh.

Joe Rogan 42:00 Yeah, Willem Da... It's a good movie.

Jamie Vernon 42:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:02 So it, it is in Australia.

Jamie Vernon 42:03 Native, native to Australian land.

Joe Rogan 42:04 Right. Okay. So that, there was that thing. They, the l- you ever seen one? They're freaky looking. Sh- show the video of the last known living thylacine.

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:13 I thought thylacine was in Alpha Paratus.

Joe Rogan 42:13 That's a thylacine. Look at the mouth on that fucking thing. Look how big its mouth is. Isn't that insane? It's like a horror movie. Look at its fucking mouth. Have you saw that thing opening its face at you?

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:24 Wait, wait, wait, wait. It's a dog with a stripe and shit?

Joe Rogan 42:25 Yeah. It looks like a tiger. It's, it's a weird marsupial in fact.

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:29 Rare photos of the last...

Joe Rogan 42:31 Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're marsupial as well. So they think that thing might be still alive. Uh, there might be limited numbers of them. Oh, this isn't a Tasmanian.

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:39 No, this is-

Joe Rogan 42:40 That's not real.

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:41 Somebody stole it. Somebody paid-

Joe Rogan 42:41 Oh, this is in color. Oh, they colorized it. Okay.

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:44 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 42:44 It's an old video.

Joe Rogan 42:45 Because I think the film is from like the 1930s. But this is the last one. And look, they have it in a fucking box, man. Ugh. God, zoos creep me out. We just get so comfortable with torturing-

Ari Matti Mustonen 42:57 Well, that's the last one. That's probably... That's why, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:58 ... some animal mentally. I understand, but can you bitches afford a larger piece of land, goddammit?

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:04 Dude, this concrete fucking... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:05 That's crazy. You got the last of these things alive and you make it suffer in a small box-

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:11 Wow.

Joe Rogan 43:11 ... with no pillow. There's nothing in there.

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:12 I'm not a big zoo guy either.

Joe Rogan 43:14 I hate those.

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:14 Even as a kid, I remember like I just didn't...

Joe Rogan 43:18 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:18 I remember like, yeah, even just seeing, uh... I remember seeing like a hippo in a zoo and all he has is a small... It's an Estonian zoo too, so-

Joe Rogan 43:27 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:28 And it's a small like, uh, just a, just a dribble of water on his head and he would just...... just 'cause they're all drugged out.

Joe Rogan 43:35 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:36 And they, and they would just do this, "Ah." Like, just ...

Joe Rogan 43:40 (sighs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 43:41 Because also, you know, the animal doesn't know.

Joe Rogan 43:44 Dude, I was in Massachusetts once, and I was on my way home from a ... It was when I was driving limos, and I was coming down this highway, and I saw this really rinky-dink zoo, and I was like ... I think I was coming from New Hampshire. I don't really remember, but I remember it was a long drive, and I had the, the rest of the day off, so I said, "Fuck it, I'm gonna go in this zoo and see what the fuck is going on in this zoo," just for f- for funsies-

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:06 ... 'cause I was out there. And I saw this polar bear.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:09 Oh.

Joe Rogan 44:09 I'll never forget this dude just pacing, just pacing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:14 Yeah, yeah, they pace-

Joe Rogan 44:14 Just pacing, and I was like, "Oh, my God. He's in hell."

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:19 (inhales deeply) It's a horrible thing to watch, man. It's a horrible thing to watch, because like, that's a sentient being that's experiencing a very bizarre and prolonged suffering-

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:31 Very.

Joe Rogan 44:31 ... and a disconnection from, uh, it's kind. There's no other bear with it. It's just by itself, by itself in this cement thing, and while people stare at it, something that would never happen in the real, in the real world.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:42 And also, he doesn't know what the fuck is hap- ... 'Cause it's the wrong climate.

Joe Rogan 44:46 Everything's wrong.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:46 And, and he's like-

Joe Rogan 44:47 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:47 ... "Why is my shit all so shitty?"

Joe Rogan 44:50 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:50 But then he doesn't even know-

Joe Rogan 44:51 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 44:52 ... that he's in a totally wrong ...

Joe Rogan 44:53 He probably is happy in Boston for, like, five months a year or four months a year, but even then, it's probably not cold enough for him. I mean, those fuckers, they're used to living in places where there's nothing but ice.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:04 But it's also like that thing of-

Joe Rogan 45:05 That's why they thrive.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:05 ... like, they say that, uh, "Oh, yeah, but if you let him go, he would die." But that's also because you just ... That's the ma-

Joe Rogan 45:11 Well, you shouldn't have them in the first place.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:12 That's the Matrix, the real world thing again-

Joe Rogan 45:14 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:14 ... that animals also will have that thing where they're ... If they're in the wild, I'm sure it's exactly like being in that Matrix, where in the zoo, yeah, you have all your food, all the stimulus. You're alive.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:25 But it's that you gotta get that stimulus. You're created-

Joe Rogan 45:30 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:30 ... to struggle, to hunt, to fucking ...

Joe Rogan 45:32 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:34 Which is the d- I mean, there's a lot of similarities in human beings.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:37 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 45:38 There's a lot of people that are zoo animals.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:39 (inhales deeply) It's like when you go to nature.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:41 Like, in Austin, because I do so much comedy, I've, uh, I'm also ... I'm into cycling now. And sometimes I'll cycle out of the city, but every two weeks I, uh, have enough energy to do, like, a long cycle, and when I get to complete ... That's why I love Estonia too, that it's silence in the woods that you have.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Mm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 45:58 And you just feel (inhales deeply) ... 'Cause that's where for thousands of years, we've been there, you know?

Joe Rogan 46:04 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:04 That's where we've been, in that silence.

Joe Rogan 46:06 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:07 With no ... And then you just feel rejuvenated immediately, you know? I love the sea. I love the ocean. I love woods. I've always been a big ... And that's, that's, that's the same feeling you get, you know? It's just, you feel it in your blood.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Mm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:20 You know? Something's fucking ... It's raw.

Joe Rogan 46:22 Mm. Yeah. You're alive.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:23 It's uncomfortable, but it's raw.

Joe Rogan 46:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:26 Of course I wanna be on Twitter and my farting and ordering Uber Eats. Of course I want to do that. That's the ste- that's the Matrix.

Joe Rogan 46:32 That's the zoo.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:32 That's the Matrix.

Joe Rogan 46:33 It's the human zoo animal.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:35 And of course outside it's unco- ... A fucking mosquito, there's a guy-

Joe Rogan 46:39 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:39 ... there's whatever, you know? There's fucking, you hear some fucking animal you don't know. I'm scared of fucking spiders, everything. That's-

Joe Rogan 46:46 When a bomb goes off, you hear the first recoil.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:48 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:50 You're out there when you hear it.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:52 (imitates explosion)

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:55 Then your feet start vibrating.

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:57 (imitates explosion)

Ari Matti Mustonen 46:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:00 And you hear that they took Chicago. (imitates explosion) Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 47:05 So-

Joe Rogan 47:05 That's, that's what we have to look forward to. The way this fucking goofy place is being run.

Ari Matti Mustonen 47:10 Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 47:12 They're pushing us closer and closer to, like, something real.

Ari Matti Mustonen 47:15 So, so my luck that as soon as I come to America, the fucking country collapses, huh?

Joe Rogan 47:20 It's not collapsing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 47:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:21 But boy, it's in a weird state of this strange struggle where people f- kind of forgot we're all supposed to be united, and that's our strength, and being divided the way we're being divided, especially being divided by bullshit. You know? Like, you shouldn't be allowed to lie, and you shouldn't be allowed to lie in a campaign ad, and you shouldn't (laughs) you shouldn't, you shouldn't be allowed to use CGI to make your crowds look bigger. Like, you shouldn't be allowed.

Ari Matti Mustonen 47:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:48 You shouldn't be allowed to do any of these things.

Ari Matti Mustonen 47:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:50 A- and we're allowing it, and it's having this tremendous impact on the way people see the news. The news is so filtered. Everything in this country that's in mainstream news, it's, uh, you have to follow a certain set of rules in order to be able to get information out. And if you wanna talk about the campaigns and if you wanna talk about the war and if you wanna talk about what's going on in Ukraine or what's going on in Gaza, you have to have, like, very specific narratives.

Ari Matti Mustonen 48:20 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:20 And you're not allowed to deviate from that at all. And then that's what's giving you the news. And so we're all like, "What the fuck is real?" And so anytime anything happens, even when the president gets shot, we're like, "Was that even real?" Like, we don't think anything's real anymore.

Ari Matti Mustonen 48:33 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 48:33 And that's what primes us.

Ari Matti Mustonen 48:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:35 For the Matrix. But no one knows if anything's real anymore.

Ari Matti Mustonen 48:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:39 It's so much easier to just slide right in, Ari.

Ari Matti Mustonen 48:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:43 Slide right in, Ari, and ah, we're in. Fuck the world, dude. I'm in a secure apartment complex. It's level five security. There's bank vault doors that lock to make sure the marauders don't get in while you're connected.

Ari Matti Mustonen 48:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:58 And you can just be free in this other world and ride around on your dragon on Pandora.

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:03 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:05 (exhales) You know, you're fucking that blue lady with the hair. (exhales)

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:10 (laughs) Remember they connected hairs with the dragon?

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:14 Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Yeah. That's what's gonna happen, and we're gonna give into it because we're making this world such a goddamn mess by not paying attention to what we're doing, not paying attention to the really important things. Like, don't let corporations tell you what's true.

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:28 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 49:28 They- they're not gonna tell you what's true if they don't have to.

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:31 If they can get away with not telling, if they make more money if they don't tell you, you can't have that. That's not-

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:36 ... how you get your news.

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:37 You can't have that 'cause it's just too easy to manipulate.

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:41 ... so easy to manipulate them.

Joe Rogan 49:42 You know, insider's trading is illegal, but that's legal? That's legal? You can manipulate the news? Like, what? You could have, uh, certain companies can advertise on the news, and then you'll never criticize those companies? That seems weird. Yeah, it seems weird. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 49:58 That's true. Yeah, somebody was e- explaining how isn't it crazy that how, how any, uh, politician that wants to get elected never mentions tobacco, alcohol. Like, never the-

Joe Rogan 50:11 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:11 ... because of the back.

Joe Rogan 50:13 Yeah. You don't, you can't mention that shit.

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:15 Which is crazy.

Joe Rogan 50:16 You can kinda mention cigarettes because it's f-

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:18 Nah.

Joe Rogan 50:18 People are so stupid, they're gonna smoke them anyway. Like, y- it's just like, you can kinda get away with, oh, "We should, cigarettes should, they're terrible. No one should smoke." (clapping)

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:27 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:30 As soon as they can figure out, like, a spray-

Jamie Vernon 50:31 They did.

Joe Rogan 50:31 ... like an inhaler, they're completely clean, too.

Jamie Vernon 50:34 They did outlaw those, though.

Joe Rogan 50:34 Excuse me?

Jamie Vernon 50:34 They outlawed those a long time ago, which is weird.

Joe Rogan 50:36 Outlawed what?

Jamie Vernon 50:37 Cigarette ads. Or, like, sorry-

Joe Rogan 50:39 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 50:39 ... commercials.

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:39 Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 50:40 On TV and radio.

Joe Rogan 50:41 Do they still have them on the internet?

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:43 We've had, we haven't had tobacco or alcohol-

Joe Rogan 50:45 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:45 ... commercials for, like, 10 years now.

Joe Rogan 50:47 Yeah, I don't think we-

Jamie Vernon 50:47 They used to only be in magazines for the longest time.

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:48 And then your cigarette packs are so cool. It's like a throwback to my childhood 'cause it's like the red, beautiful marble design.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Mm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 50:57 Uh, in Europe and, uh, Australia, they were... You know, they have, like, the cancer on it.

Joe Rogan 51:01 And you have photos of, like, tumors and shit.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:02 The baby, the dead baby. Oh, all the photos. Dead baby.

Joe Rogan 51:04 Premature babies, yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:05 Uh, lung, black lung.

Joe Rogan 51:07 I'd like to see what else those people were doing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:10 100%.

Joe Rogan 51:11 (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:12 100%.

Joe Rogan 51:12 (laughs) Those pe- they're blaming it on cigarettes. That guy was probably all fucked up in a lot of different ways.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:17 Yeah, 100%.

Joe Rogan 51:18 But, eh, I mean, you can criticize tobacco and no one really cares 'cause people are gonna keep smoking, as long as it's legal. It's like alcohol. People are not gonna stop drinking. Shut up. They're not gonna. They wanna drink.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:30 That's what happens.

Joe Rogan 51:30 They're hanging out with friends, have a cocktail, clink, salud.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:33 Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 51:33 You know?

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:34 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Congratulations, yay, clink glasses. They're not... People like doing that. They're not gonna stop.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:38 And part of the-

Joe Rogan 51:39 Talk all the shit you want.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:40 Part of the excitement of the clink is the fact that it's bad.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Little bit.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:43 Come on.

Joe Rogan 51:44 Little bit.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:45 That's the-

Joe Rogan 51:45 It's part of the fun.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:46 Yeah, it's part of the fun.

Joe Rogan 51:46 Just a little bit. Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 51:47 Absolutely, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 51:48 It's a little, little bit of, uh, let's have fun. Yeah. And, you know, it's a good feeling. When you're with friends and you have a couple of cocktails and you're laughing your ass off, like, (sighs) dude, it's a good feeling. But you shouldn't do it every goddamn day. Shouldn't- shouldn't be your whole life.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:03 It should, you shouldn't be drinking 12 hours a day, every day.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:06 But that's why it's so exciting, is that life is not infinite. And you do take those small risks, and that's what's, that's what's so exciting, you know?

Joe Rogan 52:16 Also, people that do drink 20 hours a day, those people in, for, in your life, in your journey, those people are examples where you can learn something without having to actually do it yourself. Like, you don't have to become an alcoholic and ruin your life.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:32 But you can see someone do it and say, (inhales deeply) "Okay, that-"

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:36 My stepdad was a bad one.

Joe Rogan 52:38 Ooh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:38 Bad. One of those where in the mornings, he's... Because your system is, you know, your system-

Joe Rogan 52:44 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:44 ... is done. In the mornings, in the bathroom, he would take two to three hours of like shitting, the shitting, and then just heaving, you know?

Joe Rogan 52:54 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:54 'Cause your body's just rejecting all this poison.

Jamie Vernon 52:56 God, damn it.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Oh, God. So you hear him throw up every day?

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:59 But then... Every day.

Joe Rogan 52:59 Oh, my God.

Ari Matti Mustonen 52:59 And the violent... You know, there's no throw up left, but it's just the heaving. It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 53:04 Oh. Goddamn.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:04 And then put on a suit, put on a suit, bloated as fuck. Put on a suit, all happy puppy, survive for eight hours, and then he would... I remember he would come home. And as a child, um, he would come home and he would be in the car, and just sit there in his car. And I would see him sit there. And as a child-

Joe Rogan 53:23 Oh, my God.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:23 Yeah, as a child, you're like, "Oh, he was just, he's just taking a moment, maybe." You don't understand that this guy is-

Joe Rogan 53:28 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:29 ... barely keeping it together.

Joe Rogan 53:30 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:30 'Cause he's about to go down a rabbit... And he's fighting the rabbit hole. Every, every day-

Joe Rogan 53:34 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:34 ... he's, he's just, like, "I don't want to." And he would-

Joe Rogan 53:37 And then if you're drinking all the time-

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:39 All the time.

Joe Rogan 53:39 ... you're always tired.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:40 Small vodka bottles, small vodka bottles all the time.

Joe Rogan 53:43 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:43 Get them quick.

Jamie Vernon 53:43 Like little airline ones?

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:45 Yeah. And, uh, the, his hands, you know?

Joe Rogan 53:48 Oh, the shakes?

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:48 When the sobriety starts coming.

Joe Rogan 53:50 (inhales deeply) Ooh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:51 And he-

Joe Rogan 53:52 It's a sketchy disease.

Ari Matti Mustonen 53:53 It was bad. It was bad, yeah. And, and, but, but (sighs) as a child, yeah, you're like, "Oh my God, I never wanna do that." But, you know, when you start getting older-

Joe Rogan 54:01 Was he ever happy when he was drunk?

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:05 There was a tipping point.

Joe Rogan 54:07 When did he become happy?

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:08 Mm, no, it was like, the first drink is always happy because your addiction is giving you all green lights.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:16 When you have an addiction, the first hit of that substance-

Joe Rogan 54:19 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:19 ... all your body's saying is, "Let's all-"

Joe Rogan 54:22 Let's fucking go.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:23 It's, it's all green lights, baby.

Joe Rogan 54:24 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:24 This is the night.

Jamie Vernon 54:26 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:26 This is the night.

Joe Rogan 54:27 Yes.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:28 Let's fucking go. Because it's your addic-

Jamie Vernon 54:30 Straight whiskey.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:30 It's your addiction.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Oh.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:32 Yeah, let's fucking rock and roll.

Joe Rogan 54:33 Big glass of whiskey.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:34 But then, you know, as a child growing up in that environment, there would always be that point where you see him on the couch, and that look, you know. An alcoholic's look is, you know, the detachment of the soul.

Joe Rogan 54:46 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:46 It's-

Jamie Vernon 54:47 Dangerous look.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:48 It's, then it's time f- for you to go to your room, you know, and just fucking-

Joe Rogan 54:51 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:51 ... hang out there and wait for the storm to pass, you know?

Joe Rogan 54:54 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 54:55 And it's like, um... And it was like, yeah, there was always that point of, like...

Jamie Vernon 55:00 It's such a creepy fucking...

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:02 And when you're a child, you're like, "Oh, don't do that." But when you start getting older, you also feel like, start feeling empathetic of, like, you know, I don't know the life he lived as well, you know. Substance abuse always works with trauma really well. They go hand in hand. So this guy's childhood, you know, the more I found out-

Joe Rogan 55:17 Which is true, which is true, for sure.

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:18 'Cause I hated him. I fucking ha- he was a, you know...

Joe Rogan 55:22 If, if he's dr- um, drinking heavily, it also could be, like, family influenced. Like, sometimes you, you learn behavior-

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:29 See, that's what I found out later.

Joe Rogan 55:29 ... when you're young.

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:30 Absolutely, that's what I found out later, that he was in a... I thought, I'm in a dark spot when, when he's home, you know? But-

Joe Rogan 55:36 I had friends that became alcoholics that...... didn't necessarily have childhood trauma as much as they had childhood influence. And then friends that kind of all went down a bad road.

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:48 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 55:48 And they were all, like, doing hard drugs and drinking a lot.

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:51 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:51 And, you know, it just becomes a part of the culture of your little community if you're hanging with a, a group of people that just likes to get fucked up all the time. (electronic sound effect)

Ari Matti Mustonen 55:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:00 It, it can... I've seen it suck good people in. Like everybody wants to say that there's, like, some sort of a reason why you get sucked into it. I have had friends that have nothing wrong in their life. They're happy people and they take Oxys and they don't want to stop taking them.

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:15 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 56:15 They get injured, something happens, they take 'em, they don't wanna stop. They feel good.

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:21 They don't wanna stop.

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:22 And essentially, oxycodone, we, we, we were in- learned this recently, is, uh, what Hitler was taking during the war.

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:30 That's video.

Joe Rogan 56:30 They were giving him a form of oxycodone.

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:31 That's these videos.

Joe Rogan 56:32 He t-... I, I... We had this gentleman on the, uh, podcast the other day that, uh... What was his name again?

Jamie Vernon 56:38 Norman Oehler. It's, uh, book's on the- right in front of you. Book, right hand-

Joe Rogan 56:42 Oh, here it is.

Jamie Vernon 56:43 Norman Oehler.

Joe Rogan 56:43 Thank you. Der. Uh, Norma-

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:44 Next.

Joe Rogan 56:44 Norman, sorry, Norman. Norman Oehler. Um, and this is all about, uh, Hitler's drug use-

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:49 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 56:50 ... uh, during, um, World War II. But he was talking about that video and he didn't think that video was real.

Ari Matti Mustonen 56:56 Oh.

Joe Rogan 56:57 And I was like, "Why, why do you think that?" And he ex-... 'cause he had a, a direct, uh, like a line of history between when Hitler gets introduced to this one doctor-

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:06 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 57:06 ... and the drugs this doctor is giving him.

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:08 And that's the Olympic Games one.

Joe Rogan 57:09 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:10 That-

Joe Rogan 57:10 So that's '36, that should be before all that stuff happened in his mind. But I'm, I'm, uh, I'm of the opinion then that Hitler, if you can get him to go on oxycodone a year from now, he's probably trying some shit that he didn't tell you about. That's what I would imagine. So the doctor... He's getting notes from the doctor who treated Hitler. How the fuck do we know how honest Hitler was with that doctor? He was probably already taking a bunch of shit. They already knew this stuff was real.

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:34 100%. And when you're a leader you don't want any of that information out there, you know? That you're a fucking-

Joe Rogan 57:38 Well, also there was n- zero stigma when they first created meth.

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:42 Oh, amphetamines.

Joe Rogan 57:42 When there are... Yeah, and he, w- he, he, um... Norman was showing us this... What was it called? Pervitin?

Jamie Vernon 57:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:48 Per-

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:48 Gret-

Joe Rogan 57:49 Is that the right name? So they had a f- a literal brand-

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:53 ... of methamphetamine that they would sell in, in Germany.

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:55 There's those commercials, you know?

Joe Rogan 57:56 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 57:56 There's those commer- those German commercials, I've seen those.

Joe Rogan 57:58 It's fucking crazy. They were all taking meth for productivity.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:01 I remember my history teacher showing me those. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:01 They were taking a low dose of meth and they were giving it to the soldiers. So his-... This Blitz book is insane, because it's a story about how the Nazis were jacked up on meth and they just went all the way through Poland in three days. And that they just never... they never slept, they just kept marching.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:17 I used to have a bet that, you know, while, uh, Germany was testing with meth, you guys in America were testing with LSD and I would've loved to see those two armies meet. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:26 By the way, no, that's another part of this thing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:28 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 58:28 The, the Nazis were testing with LSD as well.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:30 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 58:30 They were running tests on the prisoners. They were running tests on concentration camp prisoners.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:36 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 58:37 Yeah. They were, yeah. Their, the test never came to fulfillment because the, the prison camps got liberated, but they were doing it. So they had record of them doing that with LSD.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:45 But meth is the perfect war drug if you think of it. You just fucking get amped up-

Joe Rogan 58:50 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:50 ... and jump into a ditch with a bayonet.

Joe Rogan 58:52 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:53 You're gonna go, "You need some meth-"

Joe Rogan 58:54 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:54 "... to have a bayonet."

Joe Rogan 58:56 100%.

Ari Matti Mustonen 58:57 Do it.

Joe Rogan 58:57 100%. That's the right drug for a good soldier (laughs) .

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:01 At the front of the line they g-... And they had different dosages for different people. So if someone was in a tank, they get the most, they get the most meth, 'cause they're fucking, "Let's fucking go!" That's the front of the line, you know?

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:12 And they're the ones that are gonna get attacked first. So they have to be-

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:14 But then-

Joe Rogan 59:14 ... the most meth'd up.

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:16 And who will you put on LSD, the guy who plans the attack or something? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:20 Um, do you know that in, um... Was it Iraq or Afghanistan where soldiers were listening to, like, death metal while they were, uh, operating tanks?

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:28 If you see (laughs) ... Have you ever seen videos of dudes, like, operating from inside of tanks?

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:32 Mm-hmm. It's death metal.

Joe Rogan 59:34 That's gonna be the craziest job the world has ever known. You're in a giant metal box-

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:40 Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack.

Joe Rogan 59:41 ... and you're moving it towards war and you're hoping that thing doesn't break. You hope it doesn't break and leave you out there. You're hoping that when it gets shot at or, who knows, the transmission fails, and then you're out there. (gasps)

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:55 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:55 In enemy territory.

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:56 While they're shooting missiles at you.

Ari Matti Mustonen 59:58 I've always thought, like... 'Cause the Germans were the first ones with a, uh, tank, with a Panzer, right? That was correct, right?

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 I don't know.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:05 I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 I think so. I think the Panzer was the first.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:06 And I remember always thinking like, imagine like being like a Russian, Russian soldier or something and you're with a, like, a bolt-action rifle in a ditch.

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 And you see that fucking tank.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:15 But you hear a krack, krack, krack. You don't even know what the fuck that is.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:19 And you're like, "A car?" But then you s-... And dude, that feel... Clunk. Nothing. Clack, clack. Clunk.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 Oh my god.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:30 Oh my god.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Oh my god. A tank.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:34 A tank.

Joe Rogan 1:00:34 What an insane idea.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:36 It's basically what the scene is from All Quiet on the Western Front. It's pretty-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:38 Oh.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:39 Pretty fucking badass.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:40 It's not a great time to watch it 'cause we're doing a podcast, but...

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Oh, this is the first time they see the tanks.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:45 Yeah. Oh, fuck. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:47 Look at this. Look at this. Imagine.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 They just do... You can't stop them.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:51 It's literally like seeing a Transformer right now. Like if you would see...

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 They have no idea what to do.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:56 This is nuts. Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:00:57 And nobody told you.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Right.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:59 It's a good movie to watch.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:00 No-... Yeah, nobody-

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 Okay. I'll watch it.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:02 It's an amazing movie, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 I heard it's awesome. I heard it's-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:04 Sad.

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 That's the new one, right?

Jamie Vernon 1:01:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Sad.

Jamie Vernon 1:01:05 It's different from the book slightly, but it's still-

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Sad.

Jamie Vernon 1:01:08 It's a diff-... It's a good story.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 Yeah. Well, I'm sure. There's no happy war movies.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 That's how you know that movie's bullshit.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:13 Well, some American ones are fucking awesome. Black Hawk down-

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 Chuck Norris.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:17 ... Jarhead.

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:18 Those are all fucking amazing, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 Mm...

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:19 The Pink Mist.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Missing in Action.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:22 I don't know this one.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Chuck Norris.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:23 Oh. Really?

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Yeah. He goes back to Vietnam-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:24 Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. That, that's right. Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 ... to bring people back. Pow.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:29 But America made, made-

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 He throws some karate kicks in the jungle with cowboy boots on. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:32 American movies made war seem the coolest shit ever-

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 (sighs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:35 ... you know?

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Um, not always. Uh, Saving Private Ryan certainly didn't.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:39 Yeah. Fair. That was, that could...

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 Full Metal Jacket certainly didn't.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:44 That's my favorite.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:45 That is a good-

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 That's my favorite-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:46 I haven't watched that in a while.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 ... out of all the war movies.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:47 I was too young when I saw it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 But Apocalypse Now, there, here he is, he's missing in action, Chuck Norris just fucks everybody up. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:52 Aah. What is he?

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 He's riding around on a, on an inflatable boat and thing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:56 See, this is the America I grew up in.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Yeah. Look, they're all shooting at him.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:01:59 Cool, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 Bitch, you can't hit him, he's Chuck Norris.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 And so he's just spinning around.

Narrator 1:02:02 They never-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:02 And then it's a boat, and they're shooting at a boat and nothing happens. No, they have their boats.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 It's the harbor, dude. They can't even come close to hitting him, and then they go chase after him. Guess what's gonna happen? Well, g- I'll tell you right now. Chuck Norris is going to fuck them up, 'cause he's Chuck Norris. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:16 So fun- oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 He jumps in, (laughs) he jumps in the water.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:18 He jumps in like Aquaman.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 With the fucking machine gun.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:20 Oh, loo- look at him, look at him, look at him, look at him.

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 He think they got him. Bitch, you didn't get Chuck Norris. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 I mean, these movies are amazing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:28 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 They're amazing, because they're like, almost like you're watching a cartoon, you know. But then you can get, like, Full Metal Jacket, which is, that's an intense, that's a totally different experience. Like, that's, that's war, I think, in a much more realistic s- light.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:43 For sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 What, what those people experienced. Yeah, yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:46 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 Could you imagine being a fucking kid back in the '60s when you didn't really have any way of knowing what the fuck was actually going on in Vietnam?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:02:54 And also, yeah, they're saying that the fucking, uh, end of the world's coming and you're the last frontier.

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:00 You know, you have no way to check it, and even questioning it would be in bad taste, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 Yeah, you're not supposed to, and the people are labeled traitors, like Muhammad Ali. And then-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:09 That is true that-

Joe Rogan 1:03:10 ... they send you over there.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:11 ... that the American troop...

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 Yeah, bro.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:12 Oh, yeah, that's a crazy s-

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 Bro, De Niro felt killed this.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:14 I saw this too young, I saw this too young, 'cause I didn't quite get it, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 Uh, you should watch it again.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:19 Yeah, I have to.

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 It's fucking great, man.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:20 Fucking dark.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 It's fucking great.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:21 I remember that scene when he was in the bathroom before he shot himself in the face-

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:24 ... with the- and he put this-

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 Oh, my God.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:25 ... toe through the fucking-

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:27 ... rifle.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 Oh my god.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Yeah.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:29 Hoo. That is true that the American troops were much more... Because you've never been invaded, so-

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:39 ... at, at least our trauma that we heard from grandfathers and shit which was always about, like, it was a, almost a heroic thing of standing up for your country. Whereas an American maybe, yeah, it's kinda like, why are you going there? You know. And that trauma must be bad when you're coming back.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 Mm-hmm.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:03:54 'Cause they told you that it's, you're the fucking... you have to save the world, basically.

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 Well, they were telling them that they had to s- to fight the communists.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:04 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 Right? And they told them that the communist North Korea had attacked, um, a boat, the American boat, that never happened, the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:14 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 They just made up this story. So they, they made up this propaganda bullshit-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 ... and they created a false flag, and through that, they, they justified us going into war. And it went on for a long fucking time, and it didn't make any sense, and no one today thinks it made any sense. No one today thinks it makes a good idea, or it was a good idea, rather. Unless you, you're some insane war lover. (laughs) You, anybody look at Vietnam, "Oh, Vietnam overall is a net positive."

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 Because here's what we got outta Vietnam.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 This is what, this what came out of that war, okay? First of all, the culture shifted. There's, it's, it's how it needed to happen.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Like, you can't even come up with justifications.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:04:50 No.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Why would we go into this country and firebomb them, and, and spray Agent Orange, and who knows how many people come home f- with fucking cancer for, 'cause you used a deforestation, uh, technique-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:05:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 ... that's, like, this horrific chemical that kills people.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:05:05 Mm-hmm. Crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:05:07 It's nuts. It's nuts, and they did it because people back then didn't have any access to information. We, there was no way to know. There was no exposes showing that, you know, th- this is not a real attack, there's no reason for us to be over there. There's other things involved here that's causing people to want to send US troops to Vietnam, and probably none of them good for you. Like, you really, as a United States citizen-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:05:33 That's what I, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 ... you'd be best served, the, the world would be best served with you right here.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:05:37 Oh, 100%.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 100%. You don't need to go over there-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:05:40 Just-

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 ... and firebomb a village because someone told you to. You don't need to go over there and fucking climb into a, a tunnel and go and try to fight some Viet Cong guy in there. This is insane. Why are you there? Makes no sense.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:05:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 But they trick people, and they did it for a long-ass time. It went on for years. And so, the fact that they can still pull it off today, that they can still... I mean, who knows today, like, what we're gonna look back on like we look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident, or what we're gonna look back on and realize that it had been manipulated, so-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:06:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 ... the event was real, but the event was caused by a series of moves behind the scenes to ensure that war takes place, and there's so much complication when it comes to these things, 'cause there's so much money being thrown around.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:06:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 And then, at least today, we have other outlets for information. At least today, you can kinda se- get a sense of how things are true or not true based on really intelligent people that you know that are online that are talking about them, and you go, "No, it's actually this."

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:06:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 Like, with that female boxer, like, tha- that was a big one, right, where everybody's like, "Okay, what is going on?"

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:06:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:49 Is that a, a female? Is that a male? Is it someone has XY chromosomes?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:06:54 I saw that information that it was the XY thing early, but it was just a levying of, of that, that it's a man just came a bit too strong, 'cause the both information came out pretty much... I, I would, in my sources, I would say I saw in similar time, where it was like, "Oh, it's a man," but then you just open another, scroll a bit more, and then you see the XY chromosome thingy, and then you're like, "Okay." But just the levying of that it's a dude came on a bit strong.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 Well, the XY chromosome is male.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:07:22 Yeah, yeah, it's the male, yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 Right.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:07:24 ... the definition of, like, was, because, uh, I think, uh, the first, uh, the first reaction was that it's a man transitioning to a woman.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 Right, that's-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:07:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 ... what people thought initially, and then they realized, no, this is someone who has, uh, a genetic issue.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:07:39 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 Um, but the, the, uh, there was another, there's a boxing committee that had infor- uh, I'm gonna send you this, Jamie.... because this kind of makes it all make like a little bit more sense. But it was essentially that, um, there's, there's different versions of these kinds of diseases that people have, and depending on those versions, some of them ar- they're just, they're- they go through male puberty, and they have male frames and they're male.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:10 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 But when they're born, they have, like, some-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:14 Agender, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 ... significant issues. Okay, so here it is. I found it, and I'll send it to you, Jamie. But it's a European vice president of the World Boxing Organization has come forward to confirm that Algerian boxer Imane Khelif is male. Uh, this person said, uh, "He warned the Olympic Committee about several male boxers in the women's category, but nothing was done." Um, who knows? You know, I don't, I, I don't have any direct-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 ... information about whether that is a male or female. And-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:45 Let's just say that one-two slaps. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 The one-two's not bad, but also, that person's lost before.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 Um, to, to female boxers. But here's the thing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:54 But that doesn't-

Joe Rogan 1:08:55 That doesn't mean that-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:56 Yeah, it doesn't mean...

Joe Rogan 1:08:56 Like, there's a lot of girls out there, boys, that can kick your ass.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:08:59 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:08:59 They are.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 You know? G- get in the ring with Amanda Nunes. Good luck, bitch. She'll fuck you up. (laughs)

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 And she's a woman, right?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:06 There's women that are really, really good, and this person might not be that good.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:09 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 But it seems like they went through male puberty, which should exclude you from competing as a woman. They look male, they have a male frame, they have XY chromosome. Like-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 ... you're being told that you're a bigot for looking at very obvious-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:24 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 ... what we, we have always considered biological representations, right? So like, what, what is it, what is it in biology when something is a male human being?

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Do they have an XX chromosome or do they have an XY? They say, "Well, they have an XY." Well, we know that, but saying that-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 ... makes you a bigot-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 ... which is insanity.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:44 As a, as a sport, as a sports commissioner, uh, that's very black and white for me, at least a chromosomal issue, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 But that's what the enhanced games is thinking about doing.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:09:52 As a human, I do, I do feel em- empathetic towards her, you know? As a, it's just, it's a bit of a pickle. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 Yeah, but I don't necessarily know if that's a her. This is the problem. What they're saying, it's a male with a sexually, some developmental disease-

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:10:08 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 ... that they, or developmental, uh, issue, some genetic anomaly, something that happens to them.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:10:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 But they're going, they have testes, and they go through male puberty, and they don't have the ability to get pregnant.

Ari Matti Mustonen 1:10:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 I don't even