Joe Rogan Experience #2199 - Chris Harris

Chris Harris is an automotive journalist, racing driver, and television presenter. He's also the author of "Variable Valve Timings: Memoirs of a Car Tragic." www.youtube.com/c/chrisharrisoncars

Chris HarrisguestJoe RoganhostGuest (secondary clip reader)guest

Sep 5, 20242h 57mWatch on YouTube ↗

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150 min read · 30,033 words

0:00 – 3:03
Chris Harris returns: why he wants to speak openly now
1. NANarrator
  (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)
2. CHChris Harris
  So before you press record-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
4. CHChris Harris
  ... I have, um, I'll go most places, and I'm here because I want to tell people the truth about the last eight... I've had a pretty shit two years, um, 'cause Top Gear ended in a way that most Americans won't know, but my colleague nearly died in a crash, um, and then they left us in limbo a bit. I've never told anyone, anything about it.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
6. CHChris Harris
  Largely because my, uh, friend and colleague, who was nearly killed in the accident, called Andrew Flintoff, who was a presenter on the show. Again, no Americans will know who he is, but he's a massive sports hero in the UK. He plays that weird game called cricket.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
8. CHChris Harris
  He was like our best cricket player.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Can we use this or it's-
10. CHChris Harris
  Yeah, no, we can.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
12. CHChris Harris
  I just want to give you a quick fore- foretaste of it. And I, I'm not... I'm here to... I'll say some things that people wouldn't have heard before, and they'll make them gasp a bit.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Ah, well, because we're recording now?
14. CHChris Harris
  Yeah, that's fine.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  That's okay?
16. CHChris Harris
  Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  All right. All right.
18. NANarrator
  I wasn't on him, though, 'cause I didn't-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  What's that?
20. NANarrator
  I wasn't on him 'cause he said to...
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
22. CHChris Harris
  That's fine.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Well...
24. CHChris Harris
  So, but I-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Were you on me?
26. NANarrator
  Yeah, yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  All right. We're good.
28. CHChris Harris
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna go into it all.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
30. CHChris Harris
  Um, but it might be that what seems quite revelatory to me-
3:03 – 4:30
American trucks, big horsepower, and looming ICE bans
1. CHChris Harris
  Well, that's very kind of you. And I've just, I've just seen what you've arrived in as well, and I thoroughly approve of your taste-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
3. CHChris Harris
  ... in motor vehicles. Am I allowed to say what it is or not?
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a (laughs) Raptor R that Jon Hennessy jumps up to 1,000 horsepower. It's fucking ridiculous. (laughs)
5. CHChris Harris
  I think, I think, um... I'm often asked, "If you lived in America, what car would you drive?" And it would always be a Raptor. Comes under the heading of always drink the local beer.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
7. CHChris Harris
  You know, if you go to a city, don't order a Heineken or a Bud. Drink the local beer.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
9. CHChris Harris
  And the F-150 Raptor is your local beer.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yep. That's about as American as it gets.
11. CHChris Harris
  (laughs)
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Dodge Rams and Ford F-150s. Yeah. Those are the most American of vehicles.
13. CHChris Harris
  1,000 horsepower in a truck.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  It's ridiculous.
15. CHChris Harris
  We never thought it'd be possible, did we?
16. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs) No.
17. CHChris Harris
  No.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Zero to 60 in three seconds for a giant pickup truck.
19. CHChris Harris
  It's awesome.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  And it sounds great too. Just has this beautiful rumble.
21. CHChris Harris
  Do you think you'll be allowed to drive that in 10 years time-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  No.
23. CHChris Harris
  ... in this state?
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Maybe in this state, yeah, but if you leave, they'll like have people at the border waiting in the bushes to arrest you the moment you cross over if you don't have an EV. And, uh, you know, in California they have a mandate in 2035, you know, at, at, at tw- after 2035, no internal combustion engine vehicles are allowed to be sold in the state.
25. CHChris Harris
  Same in the UK, although they... No, they... It was 2035, then the last administration moved it back to 2030. Um-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Good luck.
27. CHChris Harris
  So I-
28. JRJoe Rogan
  They're not even ready. They're not ready. The grid's not ready.
4:30 – 11:21
EVs, energy realism, and why the debate feels like religion
1. CHChris Harris
  I... I'm so torn on this 'cause everyone looks to me as the ultimate petrol head, and I'll sit there and go, "They're all shit." They're not all shit. They have a place. And the most sophisticated assessment of this that I've come across was just a, a very normal person I was talking to one day in an airport who said, "Surely the solution is that you just use what's pertinent to the energy that's easiest where you live." And I think it's the best way of explaining it. You know, if you live here, you drill a hole in the ground. There's, there's oil around here.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
3. CHChris Harris
  If you live in Iceland, you drill a hole in the ground, there's loads of geothermal. So why wouldn't you have an EV there? It's brilliant. It's everywhere.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
5. CHChris Harris
  And it's quite a small country. You don't need to travel large distances. We just-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  But Iceland's cold, and the battery capacity, when it gets really cold, diminishes pretty rapidly.
7. CHChris Harris
  Yeah, but if... But also if you, if you live there and you've got loads of batteries and you have a cartridge system, you can swap them in and out, it's doable, isn't it?
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, okay. Yeah.
9. CHChris Harris
  I just think we need to be a bit cleverer about it.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
11. CHChris Harris
  But at the moment, the subject's approached with, this is good, this is evil.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
13. CHChris Harris
  At the moment, we live in a Star Wars reality. So effectively, you're either the, you're either the rebellion or the, or- or you're Darth Vader-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
15. CHChris Harris
  ... and his crew.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
17. CHChris Harris
  And I've been... And you will have as well. I've been pushed into the corner of being Darth Vader. Just don't think I am. I, I... You know, when I can, I use the train. If I'm in a city, I quite like riding a bicycle 'cause it suits me. I like it. It works.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
19. CHChris Harris
  But when I want to go out on an open road and enjoy a 911, I want to enjoy a 911. Why can't I? I don't see... I, I find it very difficult when I'm told...... to do things that I don't think are rational or reasonable.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  No. And there's this religious ideology that's attached to climate change that's, i- i- it, it has that sort of fever-pitched religious aspect to it. And most people when you corner them, if they're even the, the real zealots, most people really don't understand how much data there is on the impact that human beings have on climate change, how much is being done in China and India that will not change at all and is only gonna get more extreme. And, like, what little impact you have.
21. CHChris Harris
  Yeah. That's-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Comparatively.
23. CHChris Harris
  That's a really interesting point, because on the one, when you t- it's like being a parent. On the one hand, you can res- respond to that by saying, "Well, yeah, if I'm gonna make no difference, I'll just carry on driving around in my Raptor." But then it could be s- suggested that that means that you should make a difference. But I, I find it really difficult that we can't understand that if there, if there has to ultimately be a change at some point, if it's rational, I don't know if it's now or ... It's certainly not 2035. That's not reasonable.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  No.
25. CHChris Harris
  We need to prepare ourselves to make logical and progressive changes, right?
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, I don't, I don't think you can mandate those changes.
27. CHChris Harris
  No, you're quite right.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  First of all, we have a long history of internal combustion engines, uh, as recreation vehicles, and we love them. And we're not, I don't, I think it's completely unfair. If you're still running coal plants that power electric vehicles, which is a fact in America, they have coal plants that power electric vehicles. They do far more damage to the environment. And if you tell me I can't have an internal combustion engine while you're doing that to power electric vehicles, I'm gonna say, "Fuck you," because "fuck you" is the right thing to say, 'cause it doesn't make any sense.
29. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  And there's also this weird thing that is attached to this. This is a business, the green energy business. And these people that are involved in the green energy business have done a tremendous job in pushing these politicians to promote this very specific propaganda about what you can and what you can't do, and what we need to do and where we need to get to, and what bills we need to pass in order to get to this position. And they're all profitable.
11:21 – 14:15
Self-driving distrust and preserving the joy of driving
1. JRJoe Rogan
  "Why don't you guys just go use gravity, manipulate gravity? This is so stupid." I have a Tesla. I have a Model S Plaid, and it's fantastic.
2. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  It is so fast. It's like a time machine.
4. CHChris Harris
  Has it got the not-real steering wheel?
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes. I don't like that.
6. CHChris Harris
  Hm.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't like the yoke. Uh, I ordered a new one. I get it in October. No yoke, regular wheel.
8. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Wheel's better. I like a wheel better. But I get it. There's some benefits to the yoke. It's like you get a clear view of the dash. You basically put your hands on there. And he's moving towards, like, completely automated. You know, you can press, doot-doot. You press a button, it'll drive you just by, based on the navigation.
10. CHChris Harris
  Where, where do you stand on that?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't trust it.
12. CHChris Harris
  No, nor do I.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, it just doesn't feel right. It doesn't-
14. CHChris Harris
  The few times I've been in one of those things with the most advanced ... They've all got levels now, haven't they?
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
16. CHChris Harris
  And I've let it drive me. I'm there thinking I'm hovering. I don't like it.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  It's the exact same feeling that I got when Joe Biden was the president.
18. CHChris Harris
  (laughs)
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, "Uh, is this okay?"
20. CHChris Harris
  (laughs)
21. JRJoe Rogan
  "Are we..." (laughs)
22. CHChris Harris
  I, I just-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
24. CHChris Harris
  I have to say, I don't ... And, and in this city-
25. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
26. CHChris Harris
  ... there are a lot of Jaguars with sort of radar-y things on them.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes, yes, yes.
28. CHChris Harris
  That ... And, and I presume they're driverless, are they?
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes, they're driverless. Uh, uh, well, I don't know what they're called. Wayvo? Waymo. Waymo? Waymo?
30. CHChris Harris
  So, I, I view those like I do that sort of bloke in the corner of the bar that's just a bit shuffle-y, gets up, does the one-legged walk-
14:15 – 21:03
Restomods, used cars as “green,” and the weight problem
1. CHChris Harris
  I mean, so where do we stand on the restomod scene? Do we think it's gone too far? Or, or, do we believe it's the way forward?
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I like the ones that look old but drive new.
3. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Because they're less dangerous.
5. CHChris Harris
  That's the h- that's the whole idea, isn't it, really?
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, but I don't think there's anything dangerous in that 9, 9 th- uh, uh, the 964. That's mine.
7. CHChris Harris
  That's beautiful.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, it's so good.
9. CHChris Harris
  How much power has that got?
10. JRJoe Rogan
  460, and it's, you know, 2,000 pounds.
11. CHChris Harris
  I've got to r- I've also got to raise my hand here and say that I work for Singer, so I've got to be very careful.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Bro, I love those too.
13. CHChris Harris
  But I, I actually have a li- a little contract with them, so I've got to ... I've actually professionally got to say I ignore that vehicle.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
15. CHChris Harris
  But, uh, but actually, I, I, I think ... I, I love the restomod thing. I think it, it mi- we might be at peak restomod-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
17. CHChris Harris
  ... 'cause so much of it going on. But it does ... It segues into a point I wanted to make about the, the way we're traveling. One of the ways I find to appease myself, if I do wake up some days and think, "I'm a pretty wasteful individual," or whatever it is, you know, even I have moments where I think, "Just have a look at yourself in the mirror," just buy a used car. Then you don't- you're not having another one built.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
19. CHChris Harris
  There are so many great old cars out there.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
21. CHChris Harris
  I just go out and buy something that's 10 years old. Go and look at a 10-year-old AMG.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
23. CHChris Harris
  What a machine.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
25. CHChris Harris
  And if you d- that's a vehicle that's already been built.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
27. CHChris Harris
  It's, it's, it's wastefulness has already been absorbed into this weird world we live in.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
29. CHChris Harris
  Go and buy it.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
21:03 – 29:48
Mod culture, BMW M cars, and why weight isn’t everything
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, I, I enjoy messing around with stuff too. It's, it's, it's, it's part of the fun of the older cars, you know? Particularly like car ... Like I have a, um, uh, a Nissan GTR. And that is like-
2. CHChris Harris
  35.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. That is the ultimate mod car. Because they've been around for so long in exactly the same form, and there's such an after-market, and everybody just goes crazy.
4. CHChris Harris
  Find me a standard one. They don't exist.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it's very hard to find.
6. CHChris Harris
  A stock R35.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. CHChris Harris
  The unicorn.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Very hard to find.
10. CHChris Harris
  How much power does yours have?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I got a Nismo. I got, uh, last year's model. The Nismo. So I got it new. It was still laying around. And, but I got it because I know you can fuck around with them.
12. CHChris Harris
  Mm-hmm.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  So I'm, I'm never gonna get rid of it.
14. CHChris Harris
  No.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  I'm gonna keep it forever, and I'm gonna juice it up to probably 1,000 horsepower, something stupid.
16. CHChris Harris
  And if they make another one, it'll have to be a hybrid. It'll have to be-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Yeah, it'll never be the same. There, there's, there's ... I mean, they're about to do that to Porsches probably. They're about to do that ... They're already doing that with the M5, right? The new M5 is a hybrid.
18. CHChris Harris
  I've driven that.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  The new one?
20. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah?
22. CHChris Harris
  I'm not sure whether I can say I've driven it or not.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Say it. (laughs)
24. CHChris Harris
  Um, I'll probably get... Well, I think I signed a piece of paper saying I'd get sued for €60,000 if I said anything. It's, um, yeah. Uh, there's a point in this, in this process where you have to acknowledge that the, the main criticism of hybridity in cars is mass, is weight.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
26. CHChris Harris
  So everyone says it's too heavy. But for me, mass is just a number unless you can feel it. Okay?
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
28. CHChris Harris
  It's really important. You can't just criticize something 'cause it's heavy.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
30. CHChris Harris
  You can't. Because actually it might, it might affect the way the car drives. But you have to drive it to tell that first. That's where I have a job. Um, so there's ... And I, I won't talk about the M5 'cause I think I might get sued.
29:48 – 33:40
Tires: the hidden superpower (and why old tires are deadly)
1. CHChris Harris
  I'll tell you a Top Gear story. It's fairly, uh, interesting. My colleague who... Called Paddy McGuinness, who was one of the co-hosts, uh, uh, who's, who's claim to fame for me in America is he had to be subtitled in America for Top Gear because his accent-
2. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
3. CHChris Harris
  ... is so broad from the north of England, he had subtitles. Because also-
4. JRJoe Rogan
  It's like watching Peaky Blinders.
5. CHChris Harris
  Yeah. No, it's worse than that.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  (laughs)
7. CHChris Harris
  Anyhow, uh, he, he, he crashed a Lamborghini when we were filming, and it went... It was all over the press in the UK.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
9. CHChris Harris
  It helped it was red, like proper dog knob red, Lamborghini goes off the road. Anyhow, at the end of it all, um, the car's on a low loader, and I look at the tires.... they're 20 years old.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, God. Yeah. Well, that's the-
11. CHChris Harris
  Because they'd have been borrowed for the job. Y- you know, y- you s- old tire technology matched with age as well is terrible.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  That's the story with, uh, the guy from Fast and the Furious. What's his name?
13. CHChris Harris
  Paul Walker.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Paul Walker. Paul Walker. That's the story with him. They had old tires on that car.
15. CHChris Harris
  Well, Paddy get... So, Paddy gets eviscerated in the press 'cause he can't drive and everything else. If I could have been in that car, I'd have crashed it-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
17. CHChris Harris
  ... if I could drive a bit.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
19. CHChris Harris
  Anyone, y- y- y- you cannot... And that's that... If you get in these old cars with old tires on them-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
21. CHChris Harris
  ... they have nothing.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. CHChris Harris
  Absolutely nothing.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  It's incredible how much the technology has come along in that regard.
25. CHChris Harris
  I'd say Michelin, at its best, is, you know... It's... Some of it's like witchcraft.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
27. CHChris Harris
  If y- if you go... If you get in a new Porsche GT3 RS now, the tire they've developed for that probably has four compounds across it, you know, t- so the, the high-wear stuff, where it needs the grip. They're so clever.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
29. CHChris Harris
  They, they, they really are. The performance they add to the vehicle, no one knows.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  How come no one can figure out how to make a tire without air?
33:40 – 45:28
Top Gear ends: Flintoff’s crash, Harris’s warning, and the BBC fallout
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right, right. So, um, your experience at Top Gear.
2. CHChris Harris
  Yeah, that's interesting. So I've, I've never really spoken about it, 'cause I'm a... Uh, I keep my mouth shut. I like to, uh, remain dignified. It's been... It was quite a journey. It's come to an end now. I really feel it's a full stop. Uh, the show has been, uh, put on hold in the UK indefinitely, is the, is the terminology from the BBC. That means it's an end. But strangely, it exists in other formats around the world. So there's, there's, there's been an American one. There's one in Finland, there's one in Australia, there's one in France. So the, so the f- the, the license and the brand exists elsewhere-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
4. CHChris Harris
  ... but not at its home in the UK. And it came to an end for me one day in December, uh, 2022, uh, in a way that I'd like to say I hadn't expected, but, but I had. And I think that's the bit that I've found very difficult to deal with over the last, uh, couple of years. Fundamentally, I'm quite a happy-go-lucky person, I'm very privileged with the life I've had. And I love the fact that I earn a living doing what I love. You must have the same thing. To wake up-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, for sure.
6. CHChris Harris
  ... what a joy. I don't push a desk.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. CHChris Harris
  I get to, I get to wreck other people's tires. And, and also, my subject is one that is surrounded by joy. No one wants to hear... The last person you wanna hear from is the miserable car road tester.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
10. CHChris Harris
  He can fuck off.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. (laughs)
12. CHChris Harris
  'Cause he... (laughs) You know, he can f-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  He can fuck off. (laughs)
14. CHChris Harris
  And I don't wanna be that guy.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  I hate those guys.
16. CHChris Harris
  Yeah. But actually, I l- that is- th- I'd be lying if I said I've... You know, I'm feel good today. I've, I've had a good few months. But it's the last 18 months I've, I've been bad, because I just didn't... I didn't know what to do 'cause, 'cause I'd like to sit here and say, "I never saw it coming," but I did.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  So what happened?
18. CHChris Harris
  Um, the, the accident that, that my friend Andrew had, known as Fred, I won't go into too much 'cause it's, it's sort of out there what happened. He rolled a Morgan three-wheeler. Um, uh, he wasn't wearing a crash helmet, and if you do that at, even at 25, 30 miles an hour, the injuries that you sustain are profound. Uh, I was there on the day. I was the only presenter with Fred that day. I wasn't actually right by him, um, but I was close by. I remember the radio message that I heard. I always used to have a radio in my little room at the test track where I was sitting inside so I could hear what was going on. Uh, and I heard someone say, "There's, there's been a real accident here. The car's upside down." Um, so I ran to the window, looked out, and he wasn't moving, so I thought he was d- I thought he was dead. I assumed he was. Then he moved. Um, I can tell you now that he, if it... Unless... H- he's a physical specimen, Fred. He's a big guy.... six-foot-five, six-foot-six, strong. And he, and he, if he wasn't so strong, he wouldn't have survived. He's a, he's a great advert for, um, physical strength and conditioning, 'cause if he, if he hadn't been that strong, it'd have just snapped his neck, he'd be dead. So I can't believe he's, I couldn't believe he survived. And that sort of, that m- that moment of realization that he'd survives has kind of defined my thoughts on the subject since, 'cause I believe that anything after that is a bit of a bonus, you know? He should be dead, really. Um, and the fact that he survived it is remarkable, and it's given him and his family a, a chance to move on w- under very difficult circumstances. So that day was very difficult. Um, made even more difficult by the fact that the buildup to that particular shoot, I knew that we were, at the last minute I knew we were using a Morgan Three Wheeler. It's a very, it's a difficult car, you know? It's by, just the name tells you its physics is complicated. It doesn't mean it's inherently dangerous. You just drive it according to what it is. You have to be aware of its limitations. And I think that, that really was difficult. There were, and you need experience. There were two people that had driven a Morgan Three Wheeler before present that day, me and someone else, a pro driver. And we were sitting inside at that time. No one had asked us anything about the car. They'd just gone on and shot it without us. And I think, um, if I'm looking in the mirror, I find it very difficult even now that Andrew, who I, who I loved a bit, he's a, a lovely man. He, um, he was a cr- pro cricket player. He wasn't a automotive guy. Uh, and he'd, but he was a real enthusiast. He was great. Much like you, he loved cars. And he, he would always come up to me before a shoot and say, "Tell me how it is. You know, I've, I've, I've got all the advice. Give me the last bit of advice on what I should do, what I should expect." And that was the first, because of the call times that day, that was the first time we'd never had the chance to talk about how he might approach a difficult vehicle, and that was the one day that it went wrong. I find that very difficult to live with, and I feel partly responsible because I didn't get the chance to talk to him. Um, but, but my situation's nothing compared to his. Anyhow, um, the bit that I find really difficult is that in the aftermath of that accident, the show was put on hold. Andrew had to recover from frankly awful injuries and has done so, um, but uh, profound injuries. We all kept quiet. We said nothing, and I, I said nothing because I wanted to look after him. It wasn't my story, was it? I was, I was caught up in the collateral damage. I lost my job immediately 'cause, um, they canceled the show and my contract was up, so suddenly I haven't got a job. But again, you look in the mirror and think, "I'm alive. I've got three beautiful children. I'm not in Fred's position." Andrew and Fred are the same person. Sorry, that's his nickname. Um, and I just sort of got my head down. But I had seen this coming. There was a big, there was a big inquiry, a lot of soul searching. The BBC's good at that. But what was never spoken about was that three months before the accident, I'd gone to the BBC and said, um, "Unless you change something, someone's gonna die on this show." So I went to them, I went to the BBC, and I told them of my concerns from what I'd seen. As someo- as the most experienced driver on the show by a mile, I said, "If we carry on, at the very least, we're gonna have a serious injury, at the very worst, we're gonna have a fatality."
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Let's explain to people that aren't aware of what Top Gear is and how Top Gear works, because, uh, I know there's a lot of Americans-
20. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  ... that, uh, never watch the show. You guys do a lot of really crazy stunts with automobiles. Not necessarily just cars, but big trucks and all, all kinds of crazy things, and some of them are quite ridiculous.
22. CHChris Harris
  Yeah, it, there was a bit of a arms race b- between us and maybe the other big car show, The Grand Tour at the time, to go ever more stupid. And we did some, we did do some big stunts. And a lot of the time there w-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  And The Grand Tour is the original cast-
24. CHChris Harris
  It's the original cast.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  ... of Top Gear.
26. CHChris Harris
  In their Amazon show.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Jeremy Clarkson and Richard May.
28. CHChris Harris
  In their Amazon show.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
30. CHChris Harris
  Which sadly they've just ended. It was a great show. Um, so, and I, and I also, I'm-
45:28 – 53:48
When stunts go wrong: producer pressure, ‘end of day’ danger, and Fear Factor parallels
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, here's the problem with those shows, is they always wanna keep pushing the limit. And it's generally the producers who don't quite understand the limitations of the vehicles.
2. CHChris Harris
  And not... Yes, they don't have the experience of- of what it's like to actually be in control of that vehicle or what is possible.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Right. Right, right.
4. CHChris Harris
  So all- all too often, it's, "Could you just do that?"
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
6. CHChris Harris
  And, and then you wanna be a crowd pleaser. You know, you- you wanna be the guy that can do it.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  We had that on Fear Factor.
8. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  When I was hosting Fear Factor, there was a- a couple of times where I was like, "What the fuck are we doing?"
10. CHChris Harris
  Mm.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Especially the second se-... Like, Fear Factor started in 2001 and went to 2007, and then we came back again in 2011, and we only did six episodes. And they tried to make it just really ramped up. And when it was canceled, it was actually canceled because people had to drink donkey sperm. Yeah. Which was pretty minor in consider-... I mean, it's disgusting, but, uh, it wasn't anything that was gonna risk anyone's lives. But I was really feeling like if this keeps going, the stunts are so spectacular and so big, we're launching cars through moving trains. There was a moving train, and then the train had all these like cardboard boxes in it. We launch a car off a ramp, like sideways, and it goes through the train. You have to time it just right so you don't hit the car into one of the- the big metal...
12. CHChris Harris
  And someone in the car?
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, driving it. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
14. CHChris Harris
  I- I... My- my experience of that now is that if you establish really big stunts that have big vision and are ambitious, they tend to come with them a level of rigor that means they are executed well. The difficult area is the kind of just being at a test track with a smaller crew and someone says, "Give that a go." That's when it goes wrong.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
16. CHChris Harris
  Because no one's really thought about it. They're saying, "Well, we've done the... We've done the risk assessment, but just give that a go while you're here."
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Ah.
18. CHChris Harris
  I think that goes wrong. And also, my- my experience, and this is where I'm... I... Everyone that's shot with me will- will be re-... Have been reminded of this now and again. Closer play, end of the day, that's when it goes wrong.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
20. CHChris Harris
  If you're at a test track, it's ju-... You know, the light's coming down, there's 10 minutes to go, and the director says, "Just do that." I go, "No." 'Cause everyone's tired. Someone's gonna have ignored the lockdown on the circuit. There'll be someone coming, driving the other way with the coffee cups over their heads.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
22. CHChris Harris
  Or it's the end of the day.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
24. CHChris Harris
  I... If it's 6 o'clock, 5:30, I'm gone.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
26. CHChris Harris
  I'm like... And not... 'Cause I'm work s-... I'll stay around and pick stuff up.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
28. CHChris Harris
  But don't... Don't... The end of the day, when you start rushing. And I think there was an element of... That day at Dunsfold, that was a shoot that was rushed for me.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm.
30. CHChris Harris
  That was... And I- I know that that was a "We need to use this day" shoot. That's another one that's another red flag for me.
53:48 – 1:09:16
Life after TV: YouTube, algorithms, podcasts, and content theft
1. JRJoe Rogan
  But what about online? Did they put-
2. CHChris Harris
  Online is totally different.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes, right?
4. CHChris Harris
  Mm-hmm.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  So that's where it belongs. Like what, where I found about you was online.
6. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, and I, I don't remember what was the first video that I watched of you, but I do remember that green Porsche.
8. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  I remember that's when I was like-
10. CHChris Harris
  That's a long time ago.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... "Oh my God."
12. CHChris Harris
  And I, I th- I met mate ... And that's where I started out, and I suspect I'll return there, you know, I've got plans to, to relaunch the YouTube channel in the next month or two, and there's, and there's content coming. And I'm, YouTube is a very different place to when I left it.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
14. CHChris Harris
  I mean, it's pretty surprising. There's so much motoring content out there, it's almost saturated.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  It's very, very saturated. And there's so many different types of markets now too.
16. CHChris Harris
  Yeah. And the algorithm, I ... The idea of being at the behest of an algorithm-It's terrifying. If you, if you've just received, you know, check from a network for six years of your life, suddenly going, "Oh, I'll, I'll go in with the algorithm," that's quite scary.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  It is, but all you need is one thing to take off, and then all of a sudden, you're being suggested to millions and millions of people.
18. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Which is interesting about the algorithm. And if you just look at one type of vehicle, then you're g-... Like, um, I really just got interested really, uh, recently in the INEOS Grenadier.
20. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  I was like, "What a fascinating idea." Take... I mean, what a limited market, by the way, too.
22. CHChris Harris
  Well, that actually, ironically, is a-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Except for posers.
24. CHChris Harris
  ... is the only example of a brand new resto mod, isn't it, really?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes, yes. Similar. I mean, it's essentially a new vehicle, but if you... For the casual, it looks like a, a Defender.
26. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  It really does. But kind of better, kind of quite a bit better.
28. CHChris Harris
  Yeah.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  And, you know, really interesting. BMW, six-cylinder supercharged engine. And so now when I open up YouTube, it's like all Grenadiers. It's all INEOS.
30. CHChris Harris
  You're just being pushed there.