Joe Rogan Experience #2199 - Chris Harris

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

Chris Harris 0:12 So before you press record-

Joe Rogan 0:14 Okay.

Chris Harris 0:14 ... I have, um, I'll go most places, and I'm here because I want to tell people the truth about the last eight... I've had a pretty shit two years, um, 'cause Top Gear ended in a way that most Americans won't know, but my colleague nearly died in a crash, um, and then they left us in limbo a bit. I've never told anyone, anything about it.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Oh.

Chris Harris 0:34 Largely because my, uh, friend and colleague, who was nearly killed in the accident, called Andrew Flintoff, who was a presenter on the show. Again, no Americans will know who he is, but he's a massive sports hero in the UK. He plays that weird game called cricket.

Joe Rogan 0:46 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 0:47 He was like our best cricket player.

Joe Rogan 0:49 Can we use this or it's-

Chris Harris 0:50 Yeah, no, we can.

Joe Rogan 0:50 Okay.

Chris Harris 0:50 I just want to give you a quick fore- foretaste of it. And I, I'm not... I'm here to... I'll say some things that people wouldn't have heard before, and they'll make them gasp a bit.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Ah, well, because we're recording now?

Chris Harris 0:59 Yeah, that's fine.

Joe Rogan 0:59 That's okay?

Chris Harris 0:59 Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00 All right. All right.

Narrator 1:01 I wasn't on him, though, 'cause I didn't-

Joe Rogan 1:02 What's that?

Narrator 1:03 I wasn't on him 'cause he said to...

Joe Rogan 1:04 Okay.

Chris Harris 1:04 That's fine.

Joe Rogan 1:05 Well...

Chris Harris 1:05 So, but I-

Joe Rogan 1:06 Were you on me?

Narrator 1:07 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07 All right. We're good.

Chris Harris 1:07 I'm gonna, I'm gonna go into it all.

Joe Rogan 1:09 Okay.

Chris Harris 1:09 Um, but it might be that what seems quite revelatory to me-

Joe Rogan 1:12 Anyway, good to see you-

Chris Harris 1:12 And-

Joe Rogan 1:12 ... since we're rolling. Cheers, sir.

Chris Harris 1:13 10 years.

Joe Rogan 1:14 Yeah. (glasses clink) It's been a while.

Chris Harris 1:15 And you know what? I, I don't, I don't ever listen to what I say or, or watch what I record. I don't watch my own shows.

Joe Rogan 1:21 Good for you.

Chris Harris 1:22 You probably, you probably don't either, do you?

Joe Rogan 1:23 I don't, no.

Chris Harris 1:23 No. It's good for the soul.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:25 Once it's done, it's buried.

Joe Rogan 1:26 Exactly.

Chris Harris 1:27 Uh, but I think I came to see you about a month before I received a phone call saying, "Do you want to do this television show called Top Gear?"

Joe Rogan 1:36 Yeah, it was before Top Gear, for sure.

Chris Harris 1:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:38 And I think it was then. And I, and I think at that point, I'd been fielding a lot of questions about, "Well, why, why would you follow Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear?" And I'd gone, "Eh, no one would do that. They'd be an idiot to do that."

Joe Rogan 1:49 (laughs)

Chris Harris 1:49 And then, and then I looked at (laughs) the sort of monthly payments I needed to live my life, and I got offered a bit of, not much money, but some money. I thought, "I'll give it a go." But most importantly, I thought, "The 17-year-old me, if he saw me say no to this job, would punch me in the face."

Joe Rogan 2:03 Right.

Chris Harris 2:03 'Cause it's my dream job.

Joe Rogan 2:04 Right.

Chris Harris 2:04 And I know that Top Gear is a weird thing in the US 'cause I think many US people are aware of it, that it exists, but they've never really seen it because it never was put on a big network here.

Joe Rogan 2:14 Yeah, but it became very popular on YouTube.

Chris Harris 2:17 It did.

Joe Rogan 2:17 Yeah, I mean, it's a great sh- it was a great show. Yeah.

Chris Harris 2:20 Yeah. I mean, I, I... Whether, whether my era of Top Gear will be considered great, I don't know. I had lots of fun making it, but following in Jeremy's footsteps was, on reflection, a decision I, I call... I made the wrong call. I shouldn't have done it. I really-

Joe Rogan 2:32 Really?

Chris Harris 2:32 Yeah. I had a great time. But you try following him in the UK.

Joe Rogan 2:36 Just because of how much he's loved and-

Chris Harris 2:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:38 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Harris 2:39 I just, I didn't realize how deep-rooted it was.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Yeah.

Chris Harris 2:42 I still get hate mail now. I still get hate mail now.

Joe Rogan 2:44 Yeah, you could have had the exact same show under a different name and people would've loved it.

Chris Harris 2:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:49 Yeah.

Chris Harris 2:50 And I think we made some good films, and I, and I love what I did. But even if we made a good film, it was always shit-

Joe Rogan 2:55 (laughs)

Chris Harris 2:55 ... because it wasn't Jeremy.

Joe Rogan 2:56 I really enjoyed it, though. I enjoyed you being on it, you know.

Chris Harris 2:59 Oh, that's very kind.

Joe Rogan 2:59 You're, you're great. You're my favorite automotive journalist.

Chris Harris 3:03 Well, that's very kind of you. And I've just, I've just seen what you've arrived in as well, and I thoroughly approve of your taste-

Joe Rogan 3:07 (laughs)

Chris Harris 3:07 ... in motor vehicles. Am I allowed to say what it is or not?

Joe Rogan 3:09 Yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a (laughs) Raptor R that Jon Hennessy jumps up to 1,000 horsepower. It's fucking ridiculous. (laughs)

Chris Harris 3:17 I think, I think, um... I'm often asked, "If you lived in America, what car would you drive?" And it would always be a Raptor. Comes under the heading of always drink the local beer.

Joe Rogan 3:26 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 3:26 You know, if you go to a city, don't order a Heineken or a Bud. Drink the local beer.

Joe Rogan 3:30 Yeah.

Chris Harris 3:30 And the F-150 Raptor is your local beer.

Joe Rogan 3:34 Yep. That's about as American as it gets.

Chris Harris 3:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:36 Dodge Rams and Ford F-150s. Yeah. Those are the most American of vehicles.

Chris Harris 3:41 1,000 horsepower in a truck.

Joe Rogan 3:43 It's ridiculous.

Chris Harris 3:43 We never thought it'd be possible, did we?

Joe Rogan 3:45 (laughs) No.

Chris Harris 3:45 No.

Joe Rogan 3:46 Zero to 60 in three seconds for a giant pickup truck.

Chris Harris 3:49 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 3:50 And it sounds great too. Just has this beautiful rumble.

Chris Harris 3:54 Do you think you'll be allowed to drive that in 10 years time-

Joe Rogan 3:56 No.

Chris Harris 3:57 ... in this state?

Joe Rogan 3:58 Maybe in this state, yeah, but if you leave, they'll like have people at the border waiting in the bushes to arrest you the moment you cross over if you don't have an EV. And, uh, you know, in California they have a mandate in 2035, you know, at, at, at tw- after 2035, no internal combustion engine vehicles are allowed to be sold in the state.

Chris Harris 4:17 Same in the UK, although they... No, they... It was 2035, then the last administration moved it back to 2030. Um-

Joe Rogan 4:26 Good luck.

Chris Harris 4:27 So I-

Joe Rogan 4:27 They're not even ready. They're not ready. The grid's not ready.

Chris Harris 4:30 I... I'm so torn on this 'cause everyone looks to me as the ultimate petrol head, and I'll sit there and go, "They're all shit." They're not all shit. They have a place. And the most sophisticated assessment of this that I've come across was just a, a very normal person I was talking to one day in an airport who said, "Surely the solution is that you just use what's pertinent to the energy that's easiest where you live." And I think it's the best way of explaining it. You know, if you live here, you drill a hole in the ground. There's, there's oil around here.

Joe Rogan 4:58 Yeah.

Chris Harris 4:59 If you live in Iceland, you drill a hole in the ground, there's loads of geothermal. So why wouldn't you have an EV there? It's brilliant. It's everywhere.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Right.

Chris Harris 5:05 And it's quite a small country. You don't need to travel large distances. We just-

Joe Rogan 5:08 But Iceland's cold, and the battery capacity, when it gets really cold, diminishes pretty rapidly.

Chris Harris 5:13 Yeah, but if... But also if you, if you live there and you've got loads of batteries and you have a cartridge system, you can swap them in and out, it's doable, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 5:19 Oh, okay. Yeah.

Chris Harris 5:19 I just think we need to be a bit cleverer about it.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Yeah.

Chris Harris 5:22 But at the moment, the subject's approached with, this is good, this is evil.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 5:26 At the moment, we live in a Star Wars reality. So effectively, you're either the, you're either the rebellion or the, or- or you're Darth Vader-

Joe Rogan 5:32 Right.

Chris Harris 5:33 ... and his crew.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Yeah.

Chris Harris 5:34 And I've been... And you will have as well. I've been pushed into the corner of being Darth Vader. Just don't think I am. I, I... You know, when I can, I use the train. If I'm in a city, I quite like riding a bicycle 'cause it suits me. I like it. It works.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Yeah.

Chris Harris 5:47 But when I want to go out on an open road and enjoy a 911, I want to enjoy a 911. Why can't I? I don't see... I, I find it very difficult when I'm told...... to do things that I don't think are rational or reasonable.

Joe Rogan 5:59 No. And there's this religious ideology that's attached to climate change that's, i- i- it, it has that sort of fever-pitched religious aspect to it. And most people when you corner them, if they're even the, the real zealots, most people really don't understand how much data there is on the impact that human beings have on climate change, how much is being done in China and India that will not change at all and is only gonna get more extreme. And, like, what little impact you have.

Chris Harris 6:31 Yeah. That's-

Joe Rogan 6:31 Comparatively.

Chris Harris 6:32 That's a really interesting point, because on the one, when you t- it's like being a parent. On the one hand, you can res- respond to that by saying, "Well, yeah, if I'm gonna make no difference, I'll just carry on driving around in my Raptor." But then it could be s- suggested that that means that you should make a difference. But I, I find it really difficult that we can't understand that if there, if there has to ultimately be a change at some point, if it's rational, I don't know if it's now or ... It's certainly not 2035. That's not reasonable.

Joe Rogan 6:59 No.

Chris Harris 7:00 We need to prepare ourselves to make logical and progressive changes, right?

Joe Rogan 7:04 Yeah, I don't, I don't think you can mandate those changes.

Chris Harris 7:06 No, you're quite right.

Joe Rogan 7:06 First of all, we have a long history of internal combustion engines, uh, as recreation vehicles, and we love them. And we're not, I don't, I think it's completely unfair. If you're still running coal plants that power electric vehicles, which is a fact in America, they have coal plants that power electric vehicles. They do far more damage to the environment. And if you tell me I can't have an internal combustion engine while you're doing that to power electric vehicles, I'm gonna say, "Fuck you," because "fuck you" is the right thing to say, 'cause it doesn't make any sense.

Chris Harris 7:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:37 And there's also this weird thing that is attached to this. This is a business, the green energy business. And these people that are involved in the green energy business have done a tremendous job in pushing these politicians to promote this very specific propaganda about what you can and what you can't do, and what we need to do and where we need to get to, and what bills we need to pass in order to get to this position. And they're all profitable.

Chris Harris 8:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:05 And that's the problem that nobody wants to talk about. This is all business. And like most businesses, like the business of vaccines or the businesses of, of infrastructure, there's, or military, there's a lot of money being exchanged, and that's why it's being promoted. It's not ... Th- this isn't some completely altruistic, we-need-to-save-the-world and this-is-what's-wrong ... That's not true. It's not true.

Chris Harris 8:29 I think I, I think I agree. And I, and I, and I ... There are some basic tests you can apply to it. If you gave most people that are, that are, that love the internal combustion engine an electric vehicle that could do exactly the same thing as well but be electric, they'd take it. But they can't. We, we cannot. There, the technology doesn't work at the moment. You know, it w-

Joe Rogan 8:48 It just doesn't sound the same. It doesn't feel the same, but they are-

Chris Harris 8:51 But, but, but that's, that's, that's the non- I'm talking about the non-enthusiast, the non-enthusiast, the people like you and I that don't care about that.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Right. Okay.

Chris Harris 8:56 If you gave them an electric vehicle that did exactly the same job, that could do it as well and could be as flexible to their needs, they'd take it-

Joe Rogan 9:03 Yeah.

Chris Harris 9:03 ... because it's as good. But-

Joe Rogan 9:04 Right.

Chris Harris 9:04 But no one can do that at the moment. They don't exist.

Joe Rogan 9:07 They don't ex- it takes too long to charge.

Chris Harris 9:09 Uh-

Joe Rogan 9:09 You can't just pull over and charge. It takes hours.

Chris Harris 9:11 And also, there are so many other industries that pollute so heavily. Why aren't they the subject of so much sort of pernicious legislation? I mean, you talk-

Joe Rogan 9:18 Right.

Chris Harris 9:19 We talk about shipping.

Joe Rogan 9:20 Right.

Chris Harris 9:20 If you start to look into, to cargo ships-

Joe Rogan 9:23 Yeah.

Chris Harris 9:23 ... what they emit is extraordinary.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Extraordinary.

Chris Harris 9:25 Absolutely extraordinary.

Joe Rogan 9:27 Well, do you know that they, the, I believe it was the UN, passed some sort of regulations on cargo ships, and because of these regulations to make them more, uh, uh, p- pollute less, the, the side effect, the unintended consequences were the ocean got warmer. The surface of the ocean where it was measured got warmer because there's no longer a pollution layer over the ocean where these things are traveling.

Chris Harris 9:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:53 Which is so crazy. So ... (laughs) I know. Do you know that there's more green on earth today than there was in the last 100 years?

Chris Harris 10:06 No, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 10:07 It's because of the carbon dioxide, because trees eat carbon dioxide. And-

Chris Harris 10:12 I'm, I have to say, I'm-

Joe Rogan 10:14 (laughs)

Chris Harris 10:14 ... I'm completely torn on it all, 'cause I ... Some, some days par- ... You don't have so many diesel vehicles here, but some days I, I drive around in, in, in the UK and I see a diesel throwing some shit out the back of it.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Yeah.

Chris Harris 10:25 And I'm like, "That's not good."

Joe Rogan 10:27 Yeah.

Chris Harris 10:27 If I can see it, I don't like it.

Joe Rogan 10:29 We have a lot of diesel trucks here.

Chris Harris 10:30 Yeah, and I don't like it.

Joe Rogan 10:31 They hit the gas on the highway and you see black smoke.

Chris Harris 10:33 And I, and I do want, I want things to be different over time. And I can see that, that, that, that's the way that we might be heading. But I hate, I hate the fact that the timeline is determined by politicians-

Joe Rogan 10:45 Exactly.

Chris Harris 10:45 ... rather than scientists.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Exactly.

Chris Harris 10:47 And I-

Joe Rogan 10:47 And even the scientists are all bought and paid for. That's part of the problem too.

Chris Harris 10:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Scientists aren't just scientists. They're scientists that are influenced by the university. They're ins- influenced by whatever research group they're a part of. Th- there's a lot of shenanigans going on.

Chris Harris 11:01 And the internal combustion engine has ironically reached a point where it's really quite efficient. You know, it's-

Joe Rogan 11:06 Yes.

Chris Harris 11:06 ... it's quite a clever thing. I- I- if you were to invite an alien down in that vehicle there and try and show off what we're capable of, you might show them a Raptor R and go, "We did that."

Joe Rogan 11:16 Yeah.

Chris Harris 11:17 "We're quite clever." You know?

Joe Rogan 11:18 But I think they'd be like, "You're not using gravity?"

Chris Harris 11:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:21 "Why don't you guys just go use gravity, manipulate gravity? This is so stupid." I have a Tesla. I have a Model S Plaid, and it's fantastic.

Chris Harris 11:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:28 It is so fast. It's like a time machine.

Chris Harris 11:31 Has it got the not-real steering wheel?

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yes. I don't like that.

Chris Harris 11:34 Hm.

Joe Rogan 11:34 I don't like the yoke. Uh, I ordered a new one. I get it in October. No yoke, regular wheel.

Chris Harris 11:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Wheel's better. I like a wheel better. But I get it. There's some benefits to the yoke. It's like you get a clear view of the dash. You basically put your hands on there. And he's moving towards, like, completely automated. You know, you can press, doot-doot. You press a button, it'll drive you just by, based on the navigation.

Chris Harris 11:54 Where, where do you stand on that?

Joe Rogan 11:56 I don't trust it.

Chris Harris 11:57 No, nor do I.

Joe Rogan 11:58 I mean, it just doesn't feel right. It doesn't-

Chris Harris 11:59 The few times I've been in one of those things with the most advanced ... They've all got levels now, haven't they?

Joe Rogan 12:04 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 12:04 And I've let it drive me. I'm there thinking I'm hovering. I don't like it.

Joe Rogan 12:09 It's the exact same feeling that I got when Joe Biden was the president.

Chris Harris 12:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:13 Like, "Uh, is this okay?"

Chris Harris 12:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:15 "Are we..." (laughs)

Chris Harris 12:17 I, I just-

Joe Rogan 12:18 (laughs)

Chris Harris 12:19 I have to say, I don't ... And, and in this city-

Joe Rogan 12:22 (laughs)

Chris Harris 12:22 ... there are a lot of Jaguars with sort of radar-y things on them.

Joe Rogan 12:27 Yes, yes, yes.

Chris Harris 12:28 That ... And, and I presume they're driverless, are they?

Joe Rogan 12:29 Yes, they're driverless. Uh, uh, well, I don't know what they're called. Wayvo? Waymo. Waymo? Waymo?

Chris Harris 12:35 So, I, I view those like I do that sort of bloke in the corner of the bar that's just a bit shuffle-y, gets up, does the one-legged walk-

Joe Rogan 12:42 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 12:42 ... comes back from the urinal with a bit of piss down his leg.

Joe Rogan 12:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Harris 12:44 I'm like, "I'm giving you a wide berth, mate."

Joe Rogan 12:47 Well, there was a bunch of them that got into a, um, sort of a, a situation where they created a traffic jam, 'cause they all came into an intersection together and no one wanted to move.

Chris Harris 12:59 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 12:59 And there was a bunch of them. 'Cause there's quite a few of them in this city. You'll see-

Chris Harris 13:03 I've seen several today.

Joe Rogan 13:04 ... shit ton of them. Yes, they cause a traffic jam.

Chris Harris 13:07 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Yeah, I, I don't ... I'm not ... I mean, probably one day it's gonna be the way to do it, the way to get around. But, I think you can't deny people the joy of driving, just like you can't deny people their ability to ride horses. If someone wants to ride a horse, they should be able to ride a horse. People have a long history of enjoying horse riding. Okay? Let them ride horses. And, uh, I have a nine- um, 1990 ... I guess it's a '93 RS America. And it-

Chris Harris 13:39 That's a rare car.

Joe Rogan 13:40 Oh, I love it. It's so beautiful. It has no power steering-

Chris Harris 13:43 'Cause that was the car they made 'cause you weren't allowed the real 94 RS, were you?

Joe Rogan 13:46 Yes.

Chris Harris 13:46 They did a special one.

Joe Rogan 13:47 Yes.

Chris Harris 13:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:48 So this one, uh, I had ... I sent it to Sharkwerks and they juiced it up to somewhere around 300 horsepower. Nothing crazy. Um, but, oh my god, it's so tactile and it's alive. And it just ... When you- when I drive it, I just ... I'm smiling. I have this big smile on my face, like, "I'm on a fucking ride." I was gonna bring, um, my Gunther works here today, but it's raining.

Chris Harris 14:11 Have you got one of those?

Joe Rogan 14:12 Yeah.

Chris Harris 14:12 Has it got a roof or not?

Joe Rogan 14:13 Yeah, it's got a roof.

Chris Harris 14:15 I mean, so where do we stand on the restomod scene? Do we think it's gone too far? Or, or, do we believe it's the way forward?

Joe Rogan 14:22 Well, I like the ones that look old but drive new.

Chris Harris 14:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:26 Because they're less dangerous.

Chris Harris 14:28 That's the h- that's the whole idea, isn't it, really?

Joe Rogan 14:30 Yeah, but I don't think there's anything dangerous in that 9, 9 th- uh, uh, the 964. That's mine.

Chris Harris 14:36 That's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 14:37 Oh, it's so good.

Chris Harris 14:38 How much power has that got?

Joe Rogan 14:40 460, and it's, you know, 2,000 pounds.

Chris Harris 14:42 I've got to r- I've also got to raise my hand here and say that I work for Singer, so I've got to be very careful.

Joe Rogan 14:47 Bro, I love those too.

Chris Harris 14:47 But I, I actually have a li- a little contract with them, so I've got to ... I've actually professionally got to say I ignore that vehicle.

Joe Rogan 14:53 (laughs)

Chris Harris 14:54 But, uh, but actually, I, I, I think ... I, I love the restomod thing. I think it, it mi- we might be at peak restomod-

Joe Rogan 15:01 Yeah.

Chris Harris 15:01 ... 'cause so much of it going on. But it does ... It segues into a point I wanted to make about the, the way we're traveling. One of the ways I find to appease myself, if I do wake up some days and think, "I'm a pretty wasteful individual," or whatever it is, you know, even I have moments where I think, "Just have a look at yourself in the mirror," just buy a used car. Then you don't- you're not having another one built.

Joe Rogan 15:21 Right.

Chris Harris 15:21 There are so many great old cars out there.

Joe Rogan 15:23 Right.

Chris Harris 15:24 I just go out and buy something that's 10 years old. Go and look at a 10-year-old AMG.

Joe Rogan 15:27 Right.

Chris Harris 15:27 What a machine.

Joe Rogan 15:28 Yeah.

Chris Harris 15:28 And if you d- that's a vehicle that's already been built.

Joe Rogan 15:30 Right.

Chris Harris 15:31 It's, it's, it's wastefulness has already been absorbed into this weird world we live in.

Joe Rogan 15:35 Yeah.

Chris Harris 15:35 Go and buy it.

Joe Rogan 15:36 Yeah.

Chris Harris 15:36 It's there for you, with its 500 horsepower. It's ready to go.

Joe Rogan 15:40 Yeah.

Chris Harris 15:40 That's th- the greenest thing you can do is to go and buy an old Ferrari.

Joe Rogan 15:44 Right.

Chris Harris 15:44 You'll do no miles in it-

Joe Rogan 15:46 (laughs)

Chris Harris 15:46 ... 'cause you'll never use it-

Joe Rogan 15:47 Right.

Chris Harris 15:47 ... 'cause it might work now and again.

Joe Rogan 15:49 (laughs)

Chris Harris 15:49 It's the greenest thing you can do in your life, is buy a used Ferrari or a Lamborghini.

Joe Rogan 15:53 Right.

Chris Harris 15:54 It's the best thing. So, but no one seems to express it this way. And the other way is to restomod.

Joe Rogan 15:59 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 16:00 Is to, you know, buy something and make it ... Make the car that you wish new car makers built now, but they can't, because they've all been drawn into this need-

Joe Rogan 16:08 Right.

Chris Harris 16:09 ... to, to spend mon- billions on, on these electric SUVs. There's the other thing that's ironic. They're all SUVs! So you're telling me we gotta have these efficient new EVs, but you're gonna make them three tons. Shouldn't they be that big?

Joe Rogan 16:22 Not only that, there's a problem with guard rails.

Chris Harris 16:24 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 16:25 They're too heavy.

Chris Harris 16:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:26 They go right through the guard rails like butter.

Chris Harris 16:28 I saw that. I, I saw that on Instagram too.

Joe Rogan 16:30 Yeah.

Chris Harris 16:30 It just goes straight through it.

Joe Rogan 16:32 Right through. (laughs)

Chris Harris 16:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:33 They're twice as wi- they're twice the weight.

Chris Harris 16:34 But, but I s- I do think that, that, that people love cars. Just look to old stuff.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah.

Chris Harris 16:39 There's so much of it out there.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Yeah. And they're so ... And they're so good. I have a, um, 2005 M3. It's an E46. Oh.

Chris Harris 16:47 Peak car. Peak car.

Joe Rogan 16:49 Such a great car.

Chris Harris 16:50 I know.

Joe Rogan 16:50 It's not too powerful, but it's so delightful. Like as you ... It doesn't have a radio. It's got cloth seats. I fucking love it.

Chris Harris 16:58 Cloth seats? That is rare.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Yeah, yeah, cloth seats. Yeah.

Chris Harris 17:01 I just bought the V10 ... So you had the E60 V10 M5 over here. Crazy machine.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Yes.

Chris Harris 17:05 We had the Touring in the UK. They built a Touring, which is a, a cre- a state car. Or, sorry, uh, station wagon. Um, and I've got one of those-

Joe Rogan 17:13 Ah.

Chris Harris 17:13 ... that I bought earlier in the year. And I'm just ... Do you know what? I've s- I paid £27,000 for it. I probably spent more than that on it already doing ... Just making it right. But actually, the journey of, of just reconditioning and renewing something like that-

Joe Rogan 17:27 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 17:28 ... to use for the next five years I find more interesting than most new performance cars now.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Yeah.

Chris Harris 17:32 Is that, is that a sad statement or not?

Joe Rogan 17:34 No, no, because there's something about, uh, like, uh, seeing the improvement on a vehicle. Like, getting a vehicle and going, "Yeah, you know, this suspension is okay, but these shocks are like ... I could adjust this and maybe this, and maybe I can get a little wider wheel in this, and hmm, what else can I do?"

Chris Harris 17:50 You remind me so much of one of my favorite colleagues, Mr. LeBlanc, 'cause Matt is a much bigger car guy than anyone realizes. And that's-

Joe Rogan 17:57 We actually grew up in the same town.

Chris Harris 17:59 Did you?

Joe Rogan 18:00 Yeah.

Chris Harris 18:00 D-

Joe Rogan 18:00 I had friends that knew him, uh, but I never met him. I've still never met him.

Chris Harris 18:04 He's a, he's a wonderful man, and he, he's a brilliant car guy. He, he would, he would agree with you. He's, he's like that. He can never quite leave something alone.

Joe Rogan 18:12 Yeah.

Chris Harris 18:12 If I, I ... And he ... And with motorcycles as well.... motorcycles. He, um, had a bizarre ... Working with him was wonderful, by the way. I, I loved him to bits. I'd like to make another TV show with him. I, um, I got, uh, one of these gangs that steals motorcycles, uh, in the UK. Got me. So I was-

Joe Rogan 18:29 Really?

Chris Harris 18:30 ... I was doing a voiceover in the center of London. I probably told ... I might've written this story. I don't know if I've told it or not. Um, and I had a new Ducati I'd bought. I like bikes. I'm not very good on them, but I like bikes, and I was trying to get better. And Matt's a very good rider, and I had this Ducati Panigale anniversary with all the-

Joe Rogan 18:47 Ooh.

Chris Harris 18:47 It's the kinda shit you buy when you're just got a TV job, you know, and you think you're the dog's bollocks.

Joe Rogan 18:51 (laughs)

Chris Harris 18:51 Looking back, it's fucking embarrassing. So I've parked it up in Soho, in, right in the center of London by the, uh, where the voiceover studio was. And I, I was, I was a bit early, so I was milling about wearing my leather still, and I saw this bike moving past me and I thought, "That's a nice bike. Oh shit, that's my bike." And I saw these gu- these, these guys all in black with, um, stuff. Uh, sort of, uh, tinted visors, black everything. What they do is they, they basically angle-grind off the, um, the steering lock, the male part that goes into the headstock. Just, they angle-grind that off, break the steering, and then they have a moped behind or something quite powerful with a leg out and another guy, and push your bike away in neutral. And they get it round the corner into a van, and away it goes.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Wow.

Chris Harris 19:34 Um, and they did it right in front of me. And I, so I walked up and I was like, "This is my bike." I'm not a, you know, I'm small. Not a very big guy. I'm, you know, I don't present any kind of a threat. And there was three of them. And I challenged them, and I said, "This is not on." You know, and I started swearing. And one of them had a hammer, claw hammer, and, um, we had a tussle and the bike fell over. And as the bike fell o- over, I'm like, "Well, that's wrecked that then, hasn't it?" 'Cause I could just see the fairing squashed. And then the guy tried to hit me with the hammer, and I was like ... I remember screaming, "You, you're trying to steal my bike and now you're trying to hit me with the hammer." And then they were like, "Ugh," and then they left. And I was really shocked. I'd never had anything like that happen to me. So I picked the bike up and I walked it down to the, um, voiceover studio. And I rolled it up and I walked in, and Matt was there. It's a long story. And I said, um, "Well." He went, "How are you?" I said, "Well, uh, someone's just tried to steal my bike, and they tried to hit me with a hammer." And he came outside, and he looked at the bike. He's got the most lovely deadpan voice. And he goes, "You wanna get those Ducati performance levers, those are too long."

Joe Rogan 20:38 (laughs)

Chris Harris 20:38 Looking- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:43 (laughs) He was trying to mod it. He didn't even care.

Chris Harris 20:45 I was like-

Joe Rogan 20:45 You almost got killed by a hammer.

Chris Harris 20:46 'Cause he's like you. He's like obviously, you know, tough. He's, he's a big boy. And he's like, he's, he's like, he's fine. But those levers are too long. They don't suit that bike. He's like-

Joe Rogan 20:54 Oh, that's hilarious.

Chris Harris 20:54 ... "Those levers are too long." Uh, yeah, I, I th- this, the mod thing is, is really important to me. I love it.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah.

Chris Harris 21:01 I can't, I cannot leave stuff alone. I th-

Joe Rogan 21:03 Yeah, I, I enjoy messing around with stuff too. It's, it's, it's, it's part of the fun of the older cars, you know? Particularly like car ... Like I have a, um, uh, a Nissan GTR. And that is like-

Chris Harris 21:19 35.

Joe Rogan 21:20 Yeah. That is the ultimate mod car. Because they've been around for so long in exactly the same form, and there's such an after-market, and everybody just goes crazy.

Chris Harris 21:28 Find me a standard one. They don't exist.

Joe Rogan 21:30 Yeah, it's very hard to find.

Chris Harris 21:31 A stock R35.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Yeah.

Chris Harris 21:32 The unicorn.

Joe Rogan 21:33 Yeah. Very hard to find.

Chris Harris 21:35 How much power does yours have?

Joe Rogan 21:36 Well, I got a Nismo. I got, uh, last year's model. The Nismo. So I got it new. It was still laying around. And, but I got it because I know you can fuck around with them.

Chris Harris 21:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:44 So I'm, I'm never gonna get rid of it.

Chris Harris 21:45 No.

Joe Rogan 21:45 I'm gonna keep it forever, and I'm gonna juice it up to probably 1,000 horsepower, something stupid.

Chris Harris 21:50 And if they make another one, it'll have to be a hybrid. It'll have to be-

Joe Rogan 21:53 Yeah. Yeah, it'll never be the same. There, there's, there's ... I mean, they're about to do that to Porsches probably. They're about to do that ... They're already doing that with the M5, right? The new M5 is a hybrid.

Chris Harris 22:03 I've driven that.

Joe Rogan 22:04 The new one?

Chris Harris 22:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:05 Yeah?

Chris Harris 22:06 I'm not sure whether I can say I've driven it or not.

Joe Rogan 22:08 Say it. (laughs)

Chris Harris 22:09 Um, I'll probably get... Well, I think I signed a piece of paper saying I'd get sued for €60,000 if I said anything. It's, um, yeah. Uh, there's a point in this, in this process where you have to acknowledge that the, the main criticism of hybridity in cars is mass, is weight.

Joe Rogan 22:26 Right.

Chris Harris 22:27 So everyone says it's too heavy. But for me, mass is just a number unless you can feel it. Okay?

Joe Rogan 22:33 Right.

Chris Harris 22:33 It's really important. You can't just criticize something 'cause it's heavy.

Joe Rogan 22:36 Right.

Chris Harris 22:36 You can't. Because actually it might, it might affect the way the car drives. But you have to drive it to tell that first. That's where I have a job. Um, so there's ... And I, I won't talk about the M5 'cause I think I might get sued.

Joe Rogan 22:49 (laughs)

Chris Harris 22:49 But, but, but I can tell you now the BMW M2 is, is a, a small performance car that came out. 1750 kilograms.

Joe Rogan 22:56 My friend Tom Segura had one of those that he sent off to get juiced up.

Chris Harris 23:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:00 I forget, Dinan did it or ...

Chris Harris 23:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:02 I forget who did it.

Chris Harris 23:03 Well, the new one came out and it was 300 kilograms heavier than the last one and the-

Joe Rogan 23:06 Oh no.

Chris Harris 23:06 ... and the whole, the internet had a massive collective baby and went, "Oh, it's fucking ruined." I ran one for six months. It was better than the last M2. Of course it was.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Really?

Chris Harris 23:15 Yes, because someone German with a massive forehead and a white coat-

Joe Rogan 23:19 (laughs)

Chris Harris 23:19 ... made it that way. 'Cause these are-

Joe Rogan 23:21 Right.

Chris Harris 23:21 ... really clever people.

Joe Rogan 23:22 Right.

Chris Harris 23:23 And, and actually mass only matters if you can feel it.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Right.

Chris Harris 23:26 So if you drive a car and you can feel it's too heavy, fine, I'm with you. But that's, and that's the clewest of what I think about the new M5.

Joe Rogan 23:33 Mm.

Chris Harris 23:33 Judge it. Get in it and judge it before you, before you actually ... Or drive it before you judge it.

Joe Rogan 23:38 And that's what it looks like.

Chris Harris 23:39 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 23:40 God, it looks good.

Chris Harris 23:41 It's a 700 and something horsepower-

Joe Rogan 23:44 Oh.

Chris Harris 23:44 ... sedan with a BMW badge. Look- 727. 1000-

Joe Rogan 23:47 When is that coming out?

Chris Harris 23:49 Uh, the launch is at the end of this year.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Mm.

Chris Harris 23:52 It is ... It's a beast.

Joe Rogan 23:55 I can only imagine. I had an M5. I miss it. I had one o-

Chris Harris 23:58 Was it the V10 or the V8 one?

Joe Rogan 23:59 (inhales) It was a V8. I had a-

Chris Harris 24:00 E39.

Joe Rogan 24:01 Yeah. I had it in, um, what year was it? 2015 or something? What was that? Which, which one would that be?

Chris Harris 24:09 That would've been the V10.

Joe Rogan 24:10 It wasn't a V10.

Chris Harris 24:11 Was it not?

Joe Rogan 24:11 It was the one after the V10.

Chris Harris 24:12 Oh, that would be the F10.

Joe Rogan 24:14 Yeah.

Chris Harris 24:15 The F10 M.

Joe Rogan 24:16 Yeah.

Chris Harris 24:17 I'm a real nerd.

Joe Rogan 24:18 I loved it. I loved it.

Chris Harris 24:19 It's a good car.

Joe Rogan 24:20 It was great.

Chris Harris 24:20 And actually it, an M car ...... should be. And your E46 is the, is the definition of this. An M car should be a, a car that the non-car nerd can't spot it from the normal one.

Joe Rogan 24:30 Right.

Chris Harris 24:30 But the car nerd can spot it just for the camber, little bit of ride-

Joe Rogan 24:34 Yeah.

Chris Harris 24:34 ... height, little bit of shoulder.

Joe Rogan 24:35 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 24:35 You can see an M car. You and I can see an M car-

Joe Rogan 24:37 Yeah.

Chris Harris 24:37 ... from a mile.

Joe Rogan 24:38 Little hips.

Chris Harris 24:39 But a civilian-

Joe Rogan 24:40 Yeah.

Chris Harris 24:40 ... cannot see-

Joe Rogan 24:41 Right.

Chris Harris 24:41 ... an M car from a mile away.

Joe Rogan 24:42 Especially an E46, 'cause it's such a plain-looking car.

Chris Harris 24:45 Oh, it's a gorgeous car.

Joe Rogan 24:46 We actually had someone reach out to Jamie, that's how I bought it, 'cause we were talking about how great they are. I was like, "I'd love to find a low-mile one." And this one has super-low miles. I forget what it is, but it's really low miles.

Chris Harris 24:56 M Tech cloth is rare.

Joe Rogan 24:58 Yeah.

Chris Harris 24:58 I look at the cars I missed out on. There was a white manual M Tech on 18-inch wheels E46 M3. And I... Why I didn't buy it, I don't know. But then, I suppose I could say that about 1000 cars (laughs) that I wish I'd bought or I hadn't s- or I hadn't sold.

Joe Rogan 25:12 I wish you never sold that green Porsche.

Chris Harris 25:15 Do you know what? That... I know who owns it.

Joe Rogan 25:17 Yeah?

Chris Harris 25:18 It a- it appears in the UK now and again, and I see it. It was a cool thing. A- and... But I had to realize early on that I couldn't afford to keep all these things.

Joe Rogan 25:26 But that thing was a masterpiece.

Chris Harris 25:27 It was lovely. But, but look where... That was done by Tuthill.

Joe Rogan 25:30 Yeah.

Chris Harris 25:30 Right? And look where they are now.

Joe Rogan 25:32 Right.

Chris Harris 25:32 You know, he's come back from Pebble Beach with this GT1 amazing-looking thing, which you might have seen. If you Google GT1 Tuthill.

Joe Rogan 25:38 W- doesn't, doesn't he have a car that goes to 10,000-

Chris Harris 25:40 11. 11.

Joe Rogan 25:41 ... 11?

Chris Harris 25:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:41 11,000 RPMs?

Chris Harris 25:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:42 That's so nuts.

Chris Harris 25:43 Yeah. It's a, it's a lovely thing that he developed with a friend of ours called Philippe Kadouri, who, uh, obviously runs The Quail. And it's... A K... So K has... It's a very good name, isn't it? It's a 911K developed by a guy called Kadouri, K for Kadouri, and it revs to 11,000 re- 11,000 RPM. 911K. It's my favorite car name ever. I've driven it. There's a video on- online of that, in this gold thing.

Joe Rogan 26:06 How is it?

Chris Harris 26:07 You need to sit down after driving it.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Yeah?

Chris Harris 26:09 'Cause it's just, it's just so visceral. You're... It's one of the few cars that you're aware of just how fast that crank is spinning, and you have to keep it revving, and it just keeps going. O- And your eye says, "It's gone to eight, you've gotta stop now, or you're gonna have bits of metal coming out the side of the engine," but it, it never does.

Joe Rogan 26:25 Wow.

Chris Harris 26:26 And it's so light. Everything's carbon, so it's, it's about 900 kilograms.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Wow.

Chris Harris 26:30 Yeah, you'd love that. That's really... That's very basic intravenous performance, that is.

Joe Rogan 26:36 How light did you get your green card down to? Is that it? What is that?

Chris Harris 26:39 No, that's the... So that's what they've just done.

Joe Rogan 26:40 The GT1?

Chris Harris 26:40 So Tuthill did the GT1. That... He's just launched that at Pebble Beach.

Joe Rogan 26:43 Wow.

Chris Harris 26:44 Look at that.

Joe Rogan 26:45 That looks... I hate the wheels. But God, that looks amazing.

Chris Harris 26:47 But again, I've got to be careful. I work for Singer. I love Singer.

Joe Rogan 26:50 I love Singer too.

Chris Harris 26:51 Singer are amazing. But that's... My friend Richard's just done that.

Joe Rogan 26:53 Can y-

Chris Harris 26:53 Can you get me a picture of a Singer so I don't get in trouble, please?

Joe Rogan 26:54 Why are the wheels so gross? Um, those are gross.

Chris Harris 26:57 Because they're supposed to look like '80s wheels from Le Mans.

Joe Rogan 27:01 Yeah, let that go.

Chris Harris 27:02 Yeah, I think you might be right. But, um-

Joe Rogan 27:04 I'm 100% right. (laughs)

Chris Harris 27:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:05 Those wheels are disgusting.

Chris Harris 27:06 The, um, the 911K is a, is an amazing thing. And maybe if I was Porsche or another car maker, I'd be starting to cry foul.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Hmm.

Chris Harris 27:16 Because what's happened is, the resto mod thing is actually a movement that reminds car makers that they're not being given, or being offered, a fair crack at the whip now.

Joe Rogan 27:27 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 27:27 'Cause they... 'Cause, uh, uh, you can come along. You and I could establish the Monkey & Joe Car Company tomorrow.

Joe Rogan 27:33 Right.

Chris Harris 27:34 And we could find a car... We could say, "Right, we're gonna make an E46 M3. We're gonna get... We're gonna buy 100 good E46 M3s, and we're gonna turn them into the Joe & Monkey M3, and we're gonna sell them for $300,000. They're gonna have a nice new interior. They're not gonna stray too far from the original philosophy of the car. Everyone's gonna love them. And we wouldn't have to meet any kind of crash legislation." Smog would be according to the vehicle age. In the, in Europe there's even less to do. It's... Comes under very low volume approval. You don't have to do anything.

Joe Rogan 28:04 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 28:04 We don't have to meet any emissions regs, really, in Europe. You can do what you want. But if you're a co-... If you're called v-... If you're called BMW, you cannot make that car.

Joe Rogan 28:12 Right.

Chris Harris 28:13 And I'm not sure that's fair.

Joe Rogan 28:15 Right. Like what RUF does?

Chris Harris 28:17 Yeah. You... So, it doesn't-

Joe Rogan 28:17 They don't even... That's not even really a Porsche.

Chris Harris 28:19 Well, it has its own chassis plate. It's-

Joe Rogan 28:21 Yeah.

Chris Harris 28:21 It's a really gray area. But I think it's unfair on the car companies in many ways, because they can't go out and do that.

Joe Rogan 28:27 Right.

Chris Harris 28:27 But-

Joe Rogan 28:27 They can't make a resto mod.

Chris Harris 28:29 But-

Joe Rogan 28:29 They can't... C- Porsche could not make a Singer.

Chris Harris 28:31 Well, they could, but they'd have to establish-

Joe Rogan 28:35 They couldn't sell it?

Chris Harris 28:35 They'd have to establish a new co-, or they'd have to buy a company.

Joe Rogan 28:40 But could Porsche make resto mods of their vehicles?

Chris Harris 28:44 I think they potentially could, but they'd be terrified, I suspect, of the potential litigation.

Joe Rogan 28:52 Right.

Chris Harris 28:52 You know? 'Cause if one of them went into a wall-

Joe Rogan 28:54 Right.

Chris Harris 28:55 ... you know, you're suddenly... You get to sue Porsche.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Right. Also, uh, especially if you're selling something like one of those old mid- widowmakers, where... And people don't understand that if it... I mean, I have a 2007 GT3 RS, and, uh, it's still... Like, around corners, you let off, off the gas, it'll whip around on you.

Chris Harris 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:16 The new ones don't really do that that much. The new ones are much better.

Chris Harris 29:19 They've got... Well, they've got this rear steer on them, which definitely helps.

Joe Rogan 29:23 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 29:23 But they'll still rotate.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Yeah.

Chris Harris 29:25 The-

Joe Rogan 29:25 Just the engine out the back.

Chris Harris 29:27 I, I th-

Joe Rogan 29:27 But if you add that to an old, like, design.

Chris Harris 29:31 It's, it's, it's less prominent now, 'cause tire technology's moved on so much.

Joe Rogan 29:35 Right.

Chris Harris 29:35 Remember the first time I got to drive a lot of these things? I didn't quite understand the widowmaker, uh, tag. Because-

Joe Rogan 29:44 They had new tires.

Chris Harris 29:45 They had these new tire... Tires are everything.

Joe Rogan 29:48 Yeah.

Chris Harris 29:48 I'll tell you a Top Gear story. It's fairly, uh, interesting. My colleague who... Called Paddy McGuinness, who was one of the co-hosts, uh, uh, who's, who's claim to fame for me in America is he had to be subtitled in America for Top Gear because his accent-

Joe Rogan 30:03 (laughs)

Chris Harris 30:03 ... is so broad from the north of England, he had subtitles. Because also-

Joe Rogan 30:06 It's like watching Peaky Blinders.

Chris Harris 30:08 Yeah. No, it's worse than that.

Joe Rogan 30:10 (laughs)

Chris Harris 30:10 Anyhow, uh, he, he, he crashed a Lamborghini when we were filming, and it went... It was all over the press in the UK.

Joe Rogan 30:14 Oh.

Chris Harris 30:15 It helped it was red, like proper dog knob red, Lamborghini goes off the road. Anyhow, at the end of it all, um, the car's on a low loader, and I look at the tires.... they're 20 years old.

Joe Rogan 30:26 Oh, God. Yeah. Well, that's the-

Chris Harris 30:28 Because they'd have been borrowed for the job. Y- you know, y- you s- old tire technology matched with age as well is terrible.

Joe Rogan 30:35 That's the story with, uh, the guy from Fast and the Furious. What's his name?

Chris Harris 30:40 Paul Walker.

Joe Rogan 30:40 Paul Walker. Paul Walker. That's the story with him. They had old tires on that car.

Chris Harris 30:44 Well, Paddy get... So, Paddy gets eviscerated in the press 'cause he can't drive and everything else. If I could have been in that car, I'd have crashed it-

Joe Rogan 30:50 Hmm.

Chris Harris 30:50 ... if I could drive a bit.

Joe Rogan 30:51 Yeah.

Chris Harris 30:51 Anyone, y- y- y- you cannot... And that's that... If you get in these old cars with old tires on them-

Joe Rogan 30:56 Yes.

Chris Harris 30:56 ... they have nothing.

Joe Rogan 30:57 Yeah.

Chris Harris 30:58 Absolutely nothing.

Joe Rogan 30:59 It's incredible how much the technology has come along in that regard.

Chris Harris 31:03 I'd say Michelin, at its best, is, you know... It's... Some of it's like witchcraft.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Hmm.

Chris Harris 31:09 If y- if you go... If you get in a new Porsche GT3 RS now, the tire they've developed for that probably has four compounds across it, you know, t- so the, the high-wear stuff, where it needs the grip. They're so clever.

Joe Rogan 31:24 Hmm.

Chris Harris 31:24 They, they, they really are. The performance they add to the vehicle, no one knows.

Joe Rogan 31:28 How come no one can figure out how to make a tire without air?

Chris Harris 31:32 S- (sighs) it's a really, really interesting point. They must have done. It must... For me, it comes under the same heading as, someone must have made a light bulb that you never need to replace. But why would they make it?

Joe Rogan 31:44 Well, the tire without air thing, for safety purposes. There's a lot of reasons why you would want a tire that... I mean, th- I know they did make them. They do have them.

Chris Harris 31:52 There's this tire that looks like a s-

Joe Rogan 31:54 (laughs)

Chris Harris 31:54 ... looks like a sort of spring. You know that Adidas-

Joe Rogan 31:55 Right.

Chris Harris 31:56 ... shoe that has this sort of lattice?

Joe Rogan 31:57 Yes. Yeah. You can see through it.

Chris Harris 31:58 It looks a bit like that.

Joe Rogan 31:59 Yeah. I have seen those.

Chris Harris 32:01 But I s- I suppose you're still dealing with a... At that point, it's a sprung mass, which would interfere with suspension. I don't have an answer for you.

Joe Rogan 32:08 You think that's what it is? It's like, it's heavier?

Chris Harris 32:11 I don't know. I wo-

Joe Rogan 32:11 Because there's no air in it? That makes sense 'cause-

Chris Harris 32:13 Can-

Joe Rogan 32:13 ... you'd have so much more rubber. But th- I think they tried to mitigate that by having it clear, so you see through it. You know?

Chris Harris 32:19 There were some shots of one recently. I have to assume the only reason you would... There's only two reasons you wouldn't make it. One, it doesn't work. Two, it, it gets in the way of your ability to make money. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:31 Right.

Chris Harris 32:32 Normally, the latter.

Joe Rogan 32:34 Yeah. I don't know. It's probably a performance issue, too.

Chris Harris 32:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:37 Because y- by manipulating the tire pressure, you can get it just right. Whereas, you're not gonna be able to manipulate anything once the compound is-

Chris Harris 32:46 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Yeah.

Chris Harris 32:47 Yeah. T- tires are a... The f- the more you get into cars, tires are a fascinating subject.

Joe Rogan 32:52 Hmm.

Chris Harris 32:52 That's, that's a good opener when you meet a, somebody of the opposite sex.

Joe Rogan 32:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Chris Harris 32:56 Um, but, but, uh, I... Has never worked for me. Uh, but, but actually, they are, because they're the only contact you have with, with the f- with the ground.

Joe Rogan 33:03 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 33:03 So it stands to reason, they're the most important part of the performance package.

Joe Rogan 33:06 Yeah.

Chris Harris 33:07 F1 commentators, and I'm, and actually, probab- slightly less so in the US. But in Formula 1, the commentators spend most of their time talking about tires.

Joe Rogan 33:13 Hmm.

Chris Harris 33:14 'Cause it's what... It's the main factor. But they're not sexy. Tires are not sexy, by definition.

Joe Rogan 33:19 Right.

Chris Harris 33:19 So, you know, car makers will tell you, "I've got... We've got a new damper system that's got eight settings, and we've got this, and this, and this." They can't tell you that they've spent five years developing a tire-

Joe Rogan 33:29 Right.

Chris Harris 33:29 ... that's revolutionary.

Joe Rogan 33:30 Nobody cares-

Chris Harris 33:31 No one's-

Joe Rogan 33:31 ... 'cause it just looks like a tire.

Chris Harris 33:32 Yeah, it just look- it just looks terrible.

Joe Rogan 33:33 Yeah. Like, "What are you showing me?"

Chris Harris 33:34 And when... And when they come to replace th- that tire, they'll just, "Just give me the cheap one. I don't, I don't want to spend that money on that one."

Joe Rogan 33:40 Right, right, right. So, um, your experience at Top Gear.

Chris Harris 33:47 Yeah, that's interesting. So I've, I've never really spoken about it, 'cause I'm a... Uh, I keep my mouth shut. I like to, uh, remain dignified. It's been... It was quite a journey. It's come to an end now. I really feel it's a full stop. Uh, the show has been, uh, put on hold in the UK indefinitely, is the, is the terminology from the BBC. That means it's an end. But strangely, it exists in other formats around the world. So there's, there's, there's been an American one. There's one in Finland, there's one in Australia, there's one in France. So the, so the f- the, the license and the brand exists elsewhere-

Joe Rogan 34:21 Hmm.

Chris Harris 34:22 ... but not at its home in the UK. And it came to an end for me one day in December, uh, 2022, uh, in a way that I'd like to say I hadn't expected, but, but I had. And I think that's the bit that I've found very difficult to deal with over the last, uh, couple of years. Fundamentally, I'm quite a happy-go-lucky person, I'm very privileged with the life I've had. And I love the fact that I earn a living doing what I love. You must have the same thing. To wake up-

Joe Rogan 34:50 Yeah, for sure.

Chris Harris 34:51 ... what a joy. I don't push a desk.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Yeah.

Chris Harris 34:53 I get to, I get to wreck other people's tires. And, and also, my subject is one that is surrounded by joy. No one wants to hear... The last person you wanna hear from is the miserable car road tester.

Joe Rogan 35:03 Right.

Chris Harris 35:03 He can fuck off.

Joe Rogan 35:04 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Harris 35:04 'Cause he... (laughs) You know, he can f-

Joe Rogan 35:06 He can fuck off. (laughs)

Chris Harris 35:06 And I don't wanna be that guy.

Joe Rogan 35:08 I hate those guys.

Chris Harris 35:08 Yeah. But actually, I l- that is- th- I'd be lying if I said I've... You know, I'm feel good today. I've, I've had a good few months. But it's the last 18 months I've, I've been bad, because I just didn't... I didn't know what to do 'cause, 'cause I'd like to sit here and say, "I never saw it coming," but I did.

Joe Rogan 35:26 So what happened?

Chris Harris 35:27 Um, the, the accident that, that my friend Andrew had, known as Fred, I won't go into too much 'cause it's, it's sort of out there what happened. He rolled a Morgan three-wheeler. Um, uh, he wasn't wearing a crash helmet, and if you do that at, even at 25, 30 miles an hour, the injuries that you sustain are profound. Uh, I was there on the day. I was the only presenter with Fred that day. I wasn't actually right by him, um, but I was close by. I remember the radio message that I heard. I always used to have a radio in my little room at the test track where I was sitting inside so I could hear what was going on. Uh, and I heard someone say, "There's, there's been a real accident here. The car's upside down." Um, so I ran to the window, looked out, and he wasn't moving, so I thought he was d- I thought he was dead. I assumed he was. Then he moved. Um, I can tell you now that he, if it... Unless... H- he's a physical specimen, Fred. He's a big guy.... six-foot-five, six-foot-six, strong. And he, and he, if he wasn't so strong, he wouldn't have survived. He's a, he's a great advert for, um, physical strength and conditioning, 'cause if he, if he hadn't been that strong, it'd have just snapped his neck, he'd be dead. So I can't believe he's, I couldn't believe he survived. And that sort of, that m- that moment of realization that he'd survives has kind of defined my thoughts on the subject since, 'cause I believe that anything after that is a bit of a bonus, you know? He should be dead, really. Um, and the fact that he survived it is remarkable, and it's given him and his family a, a chance to move on w- under very difficult circumstances. So that day was very difficult. Um, made even more difficult by the fact that the buildup to that particular shoot, I knew that we were, at the last minute I knew we were using a Morgan Three Wheeler. It's a very, it's a difficult car, you know? It's by, just the name tells you its physics is complicated. It doesn't mean it's inherently dangerous. You just drive it according to what it is. You have to be aware of its limitations. And I think that, that really was difficult. There were, and you need experience. There were two people that had driven a Morgan Three Wheeler before present that day, me and someone else, a pro driver. And we were sitting inside at that time. No one had asked us anything about the car. They'd just gone on and shot it without us. And I think, um, if I'm looking in the mirror, I find it very difficult even now that Andrew, who I, who I loved a bit, he's a, a lovely man. He, um, he was a cr- pro cricket player. He wasn't a automotive guy. Uh, and he'd, but he was a real enthusiast. He was great. Much like you, he loved cars. And he, he would always come up to me before a shoot and say, "Tell me how it is. You know, I've, I've, I've got all the advice. Give me the last bit of advice on what I should do, what I should expect." And that was the first, because of the call times that day, that was the first time we'd never had the chance to talk about how he might approach a difficult vehicle, and that was the one day that it went wrong. I find that very difficult to live with, and I feel partly responsible because I didn't get the chance to talk to him. Um, but, but my situation's nothing compared to his. Anyhow, um, the bit that I find really difficult is that in the aftermath of that accident, the show was put on hold. Andrew had to recover from frankly awful injuries and has done so, um, but uh, profound injuries. We all kept quiet. We said nothing, and I, I said nothing because I wanted to look after him. It wasn't my story, was it? I was, I was caught up in the collateral damage. I lost my job immediately 'cause, um, they canceled the show and my contract was up, so suddenly I haven't got a job. But again, you look in the mirror and think, "I'm alive. I've got three beautiful children. I'm not in Fred's position." Andrew and Fred are the same person. Sorry, that's his nickname. Um, and I just sort of got my head down. But I had seen this coming. There was a big, there was a big inquiry, a lot of soul searching. The BBC's good at that. But what was never spoken about was that three months before the accident, I'd gone to the BBC and said, um, "Unless you change something, someone's gonna die on this show." So I went to them, I went to the BBC, and I told them of my concerns from what I'd seen. As someo- as the most experienced driver on the show by a mile, I said, "If we carry on, at the very least, we're gonna have a serious injury, at the very worst, we're gonna have a fatality."

Joe Rogan 40:01 Let's explain to people that aren't aware of what Top Gear is and how Top Gear works, because, uh, I know there's a lot of Americans-

Chris Harris 40:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:08 ... that, uh, never watch the show. You guys do a lot of really crazy stunts with automobiles. Not necessarily just cars, but big trucks and all, all kinds of crazy things, and some of them are quite ridiculous.

Chris Harris 40:21 Yeah, it, there was a bit of a arms race b- between us and maybe the other big car show, The Grand Tour at the time, to go ever more stupid. And we did some, we did do some big stunts. And a lot of the time there w-

Joe Rogan 40:33 And The Grand Tour is the original cast-

Chris Harris 40:35 It's the original cast.

Joe Rogan 40:35 ... of Top Gear.

Chris Harris 40:36 In their Amazon show.

Joe Rogan 40:36 Jeremy Clarkson and Richard May.

Chris Harris 40:37 In their Amazon show.

Joe Rogan 40:38 Yeah.

Chris Harris 40:38 Which sadly they've just ended. It was a great show. Um, so, and I, and I also, I'm-

Joe Rogan 40:44 James May, I'm sorry.

Chris Harris 40:45 Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm not of the health and safety, um, world. I'm not risk averse. I love a bit of risk. And I also absolutely believe that if you enter into a show like Top Gear, you know what you're taking on, you know?

Joe Rogan 40:56 Right, right.

Chris Harris 40:57 I, I believe that, that you, that there is no such thing as great risk-free television like that. It's go- you've just gotta, you know, I just turn up and I assess what I see and I do what I'm comfortable with, and, and I wanna make great television. That's it. And if I, if sometimes it got a bit sketchy, so be it. We've all done that.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Right.

Chris Harris 41:14 You know? That's, that's the way the world lives. And I think, um, (sighs) what happened with Top Gear was I saw repeatedly too many times my two co-hosts who didn't have the experience I had in cars. This is the critical thing. I'm qualified to make those decisions 'cause I've done it a long time. They weren't. They, one of them is a actor comedian. The other guy is a pro cricket player. Brilliant entertainers. They were great hosts. But their roles were to make people laugh, and my role was to tell people what cars were like. And all too often towards, towards the la- in the last year, I saw situations where it got too dangerous. And it culminated actually in us being in Thailand, myself and Paddy were in Thailand (laughs) and we went, we did a go-kart race down a hill in just compacted mud on wooden go-karts with no engines. And I just looked at him and I said, "This is just, this..." So it's not a question of whether we get injured, it's how injured we get. So just have an ambulance at the bottom 'cause something's gonna go wrong. Sure enough, I broke something in my hand, broke a finger or what have you. And I just thought, which sounds ridiculous from your background 'cause you, you're, you know, you're all super tough guys, but it hurt.

Joe Rogan 42:18 No, I don't wanna break my fingers. (laughs)

Chris Harris 42:19 I, I, I didn't, and, and also, it was a shit piece of television. So I, I, I always said, "I don't mind breaking my hand if we get a BAFTA for it."

Joe Rogan 42:26 Right.

Chris Harris 42:26 But, or an award. But this was just a shit skit.

Joe Rogan 42:29 Right.

Chris Harris 42:29 And I ended up damaged. And it went on too much. So anyhow, I went to the BBC and I said-... I wanna have a meeting with the head of health and safety 'cause this is not good. And what- what's- what's really killed me is that no one's ever really acknowledged the fact that I called it beforehand.

Joe Rogan 42:46 Mm.

Chris Harris 42:46 And I... It's very difficult to live with that for... initially for me. When I knew, I thought I'd done the right thing. I'm not very good at that. I normally just go with the flow. But I saw this coming. I thought I did the right thing. I went to the BBC, and I found out, really, that no one had taken me very seriously. You know, I did a bit of digging afterwards. The conversation I had with those people was sort of acknowledged. Then they tried to sort of shut me down a bit.

Joe Rogan 43:12 Mm.

Chris Harris 43:12 And then they didn't look after me at all. They just sort of left me to rot. And I... Even now, I'm totally perplexed by the whole thing. It's- I- I- to- to- to actually say to an organization, "This is gonna go wrong," and then be there the day that it goes wrong, is a, is a position I never expected to be in, and I never want to be in again. It's- it's strange, and- and pretty heartbreaking in many ways. I loved that show.

Joe Rogan 43:37 So, did the conversation between you and the network completely stop after the accident?

Chris Harris 43:44 Um, they just sort of left me to- to sweat, really. I just didn't really... I just sat in my... where I live and drank whiskey. I- I didn't have much contact with them at all. Everything went quiet. They had two inquiries, um, into the accident, commissioned, neither of which I had access to. I- I pushed very hard to have access to the second one and saw some of it. And I had this (laughs) ... And this is one of the most bizarre interactions I've had. I sat down with someone from the BBC who- who- who was gonna talk me through bits of the second inquiry into the accident. And I'd already been told that I no longer had a job. So I'd been told that Top Gear was done. And at the beginning of it, he said to me... I won't name him. He said, "I wanna thank you so much for taking part in this 'cause it's really gonna help us as an organization going forwards." (laughs) I said, "Well, it doesn't really help me. I've lost my job." Um, and I- I'm always reminded of that old adage from a very brilliant BBC comedy show, which was, "Never commit an inquiry that you don't know the outcome of in the first place."

Joe Rogan 44:46 (laughs)

Chris Harris 44:46 So, I don't... Uh, the whole thing, the whole situation was ridiculous. And I've never told anyone that. You know, I think... And I wanted to tell people that I did... 'Cause I... A bit of me thought, as the experienced driver, the members of the public think that I didn't do enough to protect Andrew. But I... And, and Paddy as well. They both had... They both experienced other incidents on that show that I think were unacceptable. And I... And that's coming as someone who loves a bit of risk. You know, if- if you and I went outside now and there were two quad bikes, I'd happily roll it for a laugh with you. I'm that guy. And even me, as that guy, thought Top... It had gone too far.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Mm.

Chris Harris 45:25 Which I think is important to say.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Right.

Chris Harris 45:28 Um, but-

Joe Rogan 45:28 Well, here's the problem with those shows, is they always wanna keep pushing the limit. And it's generally the producers who don't quite understand the limitations of the vehicles.

Chris Harris 45:37 And not... Yes, they don't have the experience of- of what it's like to actually be in control of that vehicle or what is possible.

Joe Rogan 45:43 Right. Right, right.

Chris Harris 45:44 So all- all too often, it's, "Could you just do that?"

Joe Rogan 45:46 Right.

Chris Harris 45:46 And, and then you wanna be a crowd pleaser. You know, you- you wanna be the guy that can do it.

Joe Rogan 45:50 We had that on Fear Factor.

Chris Harris 45:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:52 When I was hosting Fear Factor, there was a- a couple of times where I was like, "What the fuck are we doing?"

Chris Harris 45:58 Mm.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Especially the second se-... Like, Fear Factor started in 2001 and went to 2007, and then we came back again in 2011, and we only did six episodes. And they tried to make it just really ramped up. And when it was canceled, it was actually canceled because people had to drink donkey sperm. Yeah. Which was pretty minor in consider-... I mean, it's disgusting, but, uh, it wasn't anything that was gonna risk anyone's lives. But I was really feeling like if this keeps going, the stunts are so spectacular and so big, we're launching cars through moving trains. There was a moving train, and then the train had all these like cardboard boxes in it. We launch a car off a ramp, like sideways, and it goes through the train. You have to time it just right so you don't hit the car into one of the- the big metal...

Chris Harris 46:49 And someone in the car?

Joe Rogan 46:50 Yeah, driving it. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Chris Harris 46:53 I- I... My- my experience of that now is that if you establish really big stunts that have big vision and are ambitious, they tend to come with them a level of rigor that means they are executed well. The difficult area is the kind of just being at a test track with a smaller crew and someone says, "Give that a go." That's when it goes wrong.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Mm.

Chris Harris 47:16 Because no one's really thought about it. They're saying, "Well, we've done the... We've done the risk assessment, but just give that a go while you're here."

Joe Rogan 47:23 Ah.

Chris Harris 47:23 I think that goes wrong. And also, my- my experience, and this is where I'm... I... Everyone that's shot with me will- will be re-... Have been reminded of this now and again. Closer play, end of the day, that's when it goes wrong.

Joe Rogan 47:35 Mm.

Chris Harris 47:35 If you're at a test track, it's ju-... You know, the light's coming down, there's 10 minutes to go, and the director says, "Just do that." I go, "No." 'Cause everyone's tired. Someone's gonna have ignored the lockdown on the circuit. There'll be someone coming, driving the other way with the coffee cups over their heads.

Joe Rogan 47:49 Mm.

Chris Harris 47:49 Or it's the end of the day.

Joe Rogan 47:51 Right.

Chris Harris 47:52 I... If it's 6 o'clock, 5:30, I'm gone.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Right.

Chris Harris 47:54 I'm like... And not... 'Cause I'm work s-... I'll stay around and pick stuff up.

Joe Rogan 47:57 Right.

Chris Harris 47:57 But don't... Don't... The end of the day, when you start rushing. And I think there was an element of... That day at Dunsfold, that was a shoot that was rushed for me.

Joe Rogan 48:07 Mm.

Chris Harris 48:08 That was... And I- I know that that was a "We need to use this day" shoot. That's another one that's another red flag for me.

Joe Rogan 48:14 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 48:14 We've got a day at a track, we need to fill it. Well, that's... You've reversed engineered that, you know?

Joe Rogan 48:20 Right.

Chris Harris 48:21 Your- your priorities are already to fill something up. And I look back. Some of the stuff that we did on Top Gear, I look back, that was dangerous, visually dangerous, and- and definitely was in- in practical terms, I'm very proud of 'cause we executed it well.Like, Andrew f- Fred Flintoff went off a dam in a, in a metro and did a car bungee. It was extra-

Joe Rogan 48:41 Jesus.

Chris Harris 48:41 ... extraordinary piece of footage. You can see it, it's just amazing film. But it was rigorous, it was done properly, there has amazing stunt crew that did it. I mean, I, I couldn't have done it. It was, it was brave and it was a, a really memorable piece of television. That.

Joe Rogan 48:55 This is it? Oh.

Chris Harris 48:56 What a legend.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Oh. (laughs)

Chris Harris 48:58 And he's got me in his ear.

Joe Rogan 49:00 (laughs)

Chris Harris 49:00 He sat like that for 45 minutes. Look how far down that thing goes.

Joe Rogan 49:02 Oh, God.

Chris Harris 49:04 And, um, I think I'm very proud of what the team did there. And Andrew was magnificent.

Joe Rogan 49:11 Dude, fuck that.

Chris Harris 49:13 Can you imagine?

Joe Rogan 49:13 Fuck that.

Chris Harris 49:14 Look how far down that is.

Joe Rogan 49:15 'Cause if it goes wrong, you're dead.

Chris Harris 49:17 Yeah. And he's got that chirpy little shit in his ear as well.

Joe Rogan 49:20 (sighs)

Chris Harris 49:20 Uh, I, I think ... And there was, there's other stuff that we did that I can't understand what we were doing. So we also did, and I, you won't find this, I think they've removed it from YouTube (laughs) but there's a-

Joe Rogan 49:30 Oh my God.

Chris Harris 49:30 How about that?

Joe Rogan 49:32 That's so insane.

Chris Harris 49:34 How about that? Look at, when he goes, when he goes over himself like that.

Joe Rogan 49:37 Oh my God.

Chris Harris 49:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:39 That is so ridiculous.

Chris Harris 49:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:42 And then the yank. Oh.

Chris Harris 49:47 But that, do you know, I ... When I, when I said to you earlier, I, I have a bit of me regrets doing it, I look at that and I think, "What a f- what a thing to have been part of."

Joe Rogan 49:55 Yeah.

Chris Harris 49:55 Uh, it's, it's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 49:57 Yeah.

Chris Harris 49:58 And I'm, I'm proud of that stuff. One thing we did do which, again, on reflection was just madness, we ... There's this, there are these guys that go to motorcycle meets and shows in the UK that have these titanium skid plates on their boots. And they hold onto the back of the bike, you might have seen them.

Joe Rogan 50:16 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 50:16 And they go really fast, and the sp- sparks go out the back. And, um, there'll be ... We decided it'd be a good idea if we did this. So each of us had a vehicle we were using or, you know, y- you were the person that was pushing that vehicle, you were an advocate for that car in the film. And I think I had the new Land Rover Defender, you've seen those.

Joe Rogan 50:35 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 50:36 The new ... I had a short wheel base Defender. And I had to hang off the back of it wearing these, we had to wear these shoes. The big problem with some of these ones was that Andrew was so brave, he would go first and set such a high benchmark, you'd have to go, "Shit, I need to really go here." So he went out and did like, I thought he was doing 40 miles an hour, I think he did 75 miles an hour-

Joe Rogan 50:53 (laughs)

Chris Harris 50:53 ... hanging on the back wearing these titanium shoes.

Joe Rogan 50:55 Oh.

Chris Harris 50:56 Anyhow, Paddy gets in and tries to go really fast, and he falls off. And, uh, he's okay, but he's, he could ... Someone goes, "Paddy's over." I look left, the ambulance driver was having a cigarette at our end of the runway and he was two miles down there. And I, that was the, one of those moments where I thought, "This has got a bit loose." You know?

Joe Rogan 51:15 Yeah.

Chris Harris 51:15 If you're gonna do these things-

Joe Rogan 51:17 Yeah.

Chris Harris 51:17 ... that guy should've been running parallel, 'cause those-

Joe Rogan 51:19 Right.

Chris Harris 51:19 And I didn't like that.

Joe Rogan 51:21 Right.

Chris Harris 51:21 But, uh, uh ... Although my, my-

Joe Rogan 51:22 That two minutes of two miles, it's a long time.

Chris Harris 51:24 I know. Although the end of that was quite, I can give you some levity there. I've did my run, I got ... I didn't get quite as close as you, but I think I did nearly 80 miles an hour or something.

Joe Rogan 51:33 Oof.

Chris Harris 51:33 And I, and I fell off at the end and it hurt a bit. And I got in the back of the crew car, which I think was another Land Rover, and I was sitting there thinking, "This smells terrible. Have I done something wrong here?" It had a really acrid smell. Not from the colon, but definitely I thought, "This is not a good smell."

Joe Rogan 51:48 Like a chemical smell?

Chris Harris 51:49 Yeah. And I, and then I was told to get out. What had happened was the shoes were red hot and I'd got in the car and they just melted-

Joe Rogan 51:54 Melted the ... Oh, wow.

Chris Harris 51:55 ... straight through the mat, straight through the carpet, and it was just smoldering on fire.

Joe Rogan 51:59 (laughs)

Chris Harris 51:59 I looked like a shit Marvel superhero.

Joe Rogan 52:02 (laughs)

Chris Harris 52:02 Um, yeah, I think, um, I, I'm, I'm very happy and proud to have done Top Gear, but I, I'm so sad at the way it ended.

Joe Rogan 52:14 Yeah.

Chris Harris 52:14 You know? And no one ... That's the ultimate ... No one had control of that that day. That's what the insurance industry calls an act of God, whether you believe in him or not. Um, but what happened afterwards was really sad, because I've, I've arrived here, you've got your crew, you know, you've got your people. They were my people. And from that day, I've never really spoken to them.

Joe Rogan 52:34 Oh.

Chris Harris 52:35 Their producers, everyone else, no one really. It just, it just went like that, bang, done. And that was, that was very hard.

Joe Rogan 52:43 Mm.

Chris Harris 52:43 Because I, I just couldn't believe it had happened.

Joe Rogan 52:46 Yeah.

Chris Harris 52:46 It's like, where's ... They're just gone. And you spend five, six years of your life, more, in daily contact with these people and it just stops.

Joe Rogan 52:53 I was always torn on those type of moments on Top Gear, because I just wanted to watch car reviews. I wanted to watch people have fun with cars. But then for the casual people, you have to do something stupid like bungee jump off, w- with a car off the side of a dam, and it's like, I don't, I'm not interested. Maybe it's because I hosted Fear Factor for so long, I've seen so many things like that, that they're not interesting to me. I want, I wanna hear a car enthusiast rave about the fun they're having while they're driving an automobile.

Chris Harris 53:24 Maybe you should produce a car show. I've got an idea. I'll pitch it to you afterwards.

Joe Rogan 53:28 (laughs)

Chris Harris 53:28 But, but you're quite right. Uh-

Joe Rogan 53:31 There's plenty of market for that.

Chris Harris 53:32 There is. A- and actually this is the country for it.

Joe Rogan 53:35 Yeah.

Chris Harris 53:35 You know, maybe in Europe it's less. But I know that when we did geeky car stuff that was very, you know, for you and I, the numbers did that.

Joe Rogan 53:43 Ah.

Chris Harris 53:44 And the moment you did something hyperbolic and ridiculous, the numbers did that.

Joe Rogan 53:48 But what about online? Did they put-

Chris Harris 53:50 Online is totally different.

Joe Rogan 53:51 Yes, right?

Chris Harris 53:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:52 So that's where it belongs. Like what, where I found about you was online.

Chris Harris 53:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:56 You know, and I, I don't remember what was the first video that I watched of you, but I do remember that green Porsche.

Chris Harris 54:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:01 I remember that's when I was like-

Chris Harris 54:02 That's a long time ago.

Joe Rogan 54:03 ... "Oh my God."

Chris Harris 54:03 And I, I th- I met mate ... And that's where I started out, and I suspect I'll return there, you know, I've got plans to, to relaunch the YouTube channel in the next month or two, and there's, and there's content coming. And I'm, YouTube is a very different place to when I left it.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Yeah.

Chris Harris 54:16 I mean, it's pretty surprising. There's so much motoring content out there, it's almost saturated.

Joe Rogan 54:20 It's very, very saturated. And there's so many different types of markets now too.

Chris Harris 54:24 Yeah. And the algorithm, I ... The idea of being at the behest of an algorithm-It's terrifying. If you, if you've just received, you know, check from a network for six years of your life, suddenly going, "Oh, I'll, I'll go in with the algorithm," that's quite scary.

Joe Rogan 54:37 It is, but all you need is one thing to take off, and then all of a sudden, you're being suggested to millions and millions of people.

Chris Harris 54:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Which is interesting about the algorithm. And if you just look at one type of vehicle, then you're g-... Like, um, I really just got interested really, uh, recently in the INEOS Grenadier.

Chris Harris 54:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:57 I was like, "What a fascinating idea." Take... I mean, what a limited market, by the way, too.

Chris Harris 55:02 Well, that actually, ironically, is a-

Joe Rogan 55:03 Except for posers.

Chris Harris 55:03 ... is the only example of a brand new resto mod, isn't it, really?

Joe Rogan 55:07 Yes, yes. Similar. I mean, it's essentially a new vehicle, but if you... For the casual, it looks like a, a Defender.

Chris Harris 55:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:14 It really does. But kind of better, kind of quite a bit better.

Chris Harris 55:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:18 And, you know, really interesting. BMW, six-cylinder supercharged engine. And so now when I open up YouTube, it's like all Grenadiers. It's all INEOS.

Chris Harris 55:27 You're just being pushed there.

Joe Rogan 55:28 Like, just constantly all these off-roading Australia dudes and all these different people, like, sending me these things.

Chris Harris 55:35 I, (sighs) I think you're right. It does belong on YouTube. I mean, linear tele-... I joined a TV show when linear television still survived. You know, you know, on, others on-

Joe Rogan 55:44 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 55:44 ... Destination Television.

Joe Rogan 55:46 Sure.

Chris Harris 55:46 It's gone now.

Joe Rogan 55:47 It's gone.

Chris Harris 55:47 It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 55:48 Yeah.

Chris Harris 55:48 The world's changed completely. Top Gear still has a place in it. You know, many of my previous colleagues make a lot of online content for Top Gear. They do a great job. There's some really good films. But there is a r-... There's something quite romantic for me about the sit down, squish onto the sofa-

Joe Rogan 56:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 56:02 ... with your, with your, with your... as a family and watch, 8:00 Sunday night. It was a, it was a, it was a quasi-religious experience, really.

Joe Rogan 56:09 But it was in a time where people didn't have smartphones.

Chris Harris 56:12 You're quite right.

Joe Rogan 56:12 Tha- that, that's gone. That's, that waiting for a very specific time to watch a program, no one is interested in that anymore.

Chris Harris 56:20 I know. It's, it's strange, isn't it? 'Cause I... It's logical that they wouldn't, because no one has any patience, because of the immediacy of these things.

Joe Rogan 56:26 Yes.

Chris Harris 56:27 But there's equally something quite lovely about what we used to do.

Joe Rogan 56:31 Right.

Chris Harris 56:31 I, I, I c- I can't really reconcile it. I l-... I, I totally acknowledge the excitement of the new, but I'm slightly wistful for the past. Is that fair enough?

Joe Rogan 56:40 I see what you're saying. The only thing that still exists that you have to wait for is live sports.

Chris Harris 56:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:45 So live sports where you're watching a game, the game starts at 8:00 PM.

Chris Harris 56:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:48 You have to be there at 8:00 PM. It's not going to wait for you. There it is. Okay.

Chris Harris 56:52 And the po-... The podcast is a, as a concept, is amazing as well. I've got to be a bit cheesy. I have got a podcast, which, which I don't... When is this going to go out? Is this going out a day after we record this?

Joe Rogan 57:00 Yeah, pretty soon.

Chris Harris 57:01 Well, the day after that, my new podcast launches. I didn't realize that, so.

Joe Rogan 57:04 What's it called?

Chris Harris 57:05 It's a really, really interesting name.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Chris Harris on Cars?

Chris Harris 57:08 Chris Harris and Friends Car Podcast-

Joe Rogan 57:10 (laughs)

Chris Harris 57:10 ... is what it's called. Because I just thought, "Well, he's-"

Joe Rogan 57:13 Perfect.

Chris Harris 57:13 "... Heinz tomato ketchup."

Joe Rogan 57:14 Yeah.

Chris Harris 57:15 So that, and that really is a nerd product. So one of the things I did as... by way of therapy, was I did a car podcast, uh, in the immediate aftermath of this accident, because I realized I wanted to have contact with this world. I think that the moment your life gets difficult, you regress to what is your comfort food.

Joe Rogan 57:31 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 57:31 My comfort food is cars.

Joe Rogan 57:33 Right.

Chris Harris 57:33 And I, and I, and I love cars. They make me happy.

Joe Rogan 57:36 Well, I would much prefer you without producers and network executives and all these different people telling you what to do. I like, I like... What I like about podcasts and what I like about YouTube content from people like Matt Farah is I know it's one human being. This is their perspective. This is what they enjoy. They really do love these vehicles, and they talk about it without any influence of other human beings. So you're getting this singular viewpoint, which I think is the most attractive thing about it.

Chris Harris 58:04 And, and, and w-... The thing you pointed out there, this idea of, of having to alter things or add sort of ancillary comedy to them to then make them appeal to the masses-

Joe Rogan 58:16 Yeah.

Chris Harris 58:17 ... is, is what I found very difficult on Top Gear.

Joe Rogan 58:19 Right.

Chris Harris 58:19 Because I came there as the... I arrived as the rigorous car tester. You put me with some comedians, put me with whoever. I don't need to do that. They, they'll do the heavy lifting. They'll make people laugh. But if you want to know whether the new M2 is any good or not, please give it to me and I'll tell you.

Joe Rogan 58:31 Right.

Chris Harris 58:32 And the M2 is a good example. When the first M2 came out, I was given it to review for Top Gear. And I just said, "Well, I'd like to just do a review of the car. I've got a test track. I'll slide it round and tell you what it's like, then move on. Someone else can make them laugh." But that wasn't enough. And they had, they, they had a section of this where I, I had to g-... I was given this sort of piece of testing equipment called the Pantometer 3000 or something just made up. And I had to put on these underpants which were going to tell people, you know, whether my sphincter was moving faster in this vehicle. To tell what it was.

Joe Rogan 59:04 Ugh.

Chris Harris 59:04 But it w-... I looked back.

Joe Rogan 59:07 (laughs)

Chris Harris 59:07 And I should have just said, "Fuck off."

Joe Rogan 59:08 Yeah.

Chris Harris 59:09 But I, I don't do that. You know, it's just an embarrassing moment in my life. I... But that was exactly... It was... They had to aug-... They felt the need to augment the test with something stupid to draw in the casual viewer. And that's where YouTube is brilliant. Because YouTube doesn't feel the need to that. It can just-

Joe Rogan 59:24 Right.

Chris Harris 59:24 ... to do that. It can just cater for us nerds.

Joe Rogan 59:27 Yes.

Chris Harris 59:27 You know, whatever you're into, YouTube can g- can deliver it without someone from a network messing with it.

Joe Rogan 59:34 What's really spectacular about YouTube is there's only one YouTube.

Chris Harris 59:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:38 You think about how big the internet is.

Chris Harris 59:39 Ah, there is in China though.

Joe Rogan 59:41 Well, that's different.

Chris Harris 59:42 I'll tell you a good one-... a good story about that.

Joe Rogan 59:44 Okay.

Chris Harris 59:44 About, I don't know, eight years ago or so. I was at the Geneva Motor Show, the biggest car event in, in my world. And this, uh, Chinese guy comes up to me and he's like really, really grateful. He says, "I'm so glad to meet you. I want to say thank you." I went, "Why do you want to say thank you?" He said, "Because you've made such a difference to my life." I'm like, "I'm not the second coming. I don't know what I've done to you." He goes, "Because, you know, I host all of your videos on a channel in China and they've made me, like, loads of money."

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 (laughs)

Chris Harris 1:00:13 I just went, "Sorry."

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:00:16 So I did a bit of research. He has. He's made lots of... He just, he just took... He would just rip them all off YouTube and host them.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 Wow.

Chris Harris 1:00:22 But there's no regulation.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 Wow. So he's just telling you he ripped you off.

Chris Harris 1:00:27 But, but he had... But he thought...... he had no, it wasn't like he had no shame. He couldn't even see what he'd done wrong.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Right. Right. Right.

Chris Harris 1:00:33 He's just like, "Thanks."

Joe Rogan 1:00:34 Well, China has Apple stores that aren't even Apple.

Chris Harris 1:00:38 Does it?

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 Yes. China has full Apple stores where they're selling counterfeit laptops, phones, everything. None of it is really A- I don't even know if they'll, they do phones anymore. But, i- it was all, they had Apple stores that Apple found out about that weren't even, nothing was Apple.

Chris Harris 1:00:56 It's, it's, creating content in the last 10 years has become a really fascinating situation because, I'm sure you felt the same when you started out, w- if you produce something, you own it, by definition. Doesn't matter whether you're within a network or what have you. The intellectual property in your head is, "That's mine."

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Right.

Chris Harris 1:01:14 And content producers over the last five years have had to accept the fact that that is no longer the proposition. People can do what they want. You cannot, you can't hunt them down.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Right.

Chris Harris 1:01:24 And it, and it's shameless. And I, I still get, occasionally get engaged. I don't look at the Instagram message thing very often, but sometimes I'll just see someone saying, "I, I'm just gonna post this. Do you mind?" And sometimes I'll go, "Well, yes, I do." I, I, I went out there at 3:00 in the morning.

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 Right.

Chris Harris 1:01:40 I nearly crashed that car. I paid for those rear tires.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Right.

Chris Harris 1:01:42 Why should you get the chance to monetize that for your channel?

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Exactly.

Chris Harris 1:01:46 What are you offering me?

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Right. Nothing.

Chris Harris 1:01:48 I just find it really odd.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 It's very odd. Yeah. And it's also, they feel like they can just say a few things, you know, like, "Hey, look at Chris Harris doing this," and that's enough.

Chris Harris 1:01:57 A- a- and also, w-

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 That's enough of an alteration.

Chris Harris 1:02:00 In their professional world, could you imagine if one of them was an accountant and I walked in and said-

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 Right.

Chris Harris 1:02:04 ... "Right, I've got my books. I'm, I can't add up. I'm really dysnumeric and I'm an idiot. Just do those for free, will you? 'Cause just do them."

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:02:12 Well, no, he'll say, "I want some money for that." "No, no, no, I just, just do them. Just sh- and also, shut the fuck up and do them."

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 (laughs)

Chris Harris 1:02:18 So what f- how does that... No other world works like that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 No, the, the content world's very strange. It's very strange where people can use your stuff and they'll, and do entire shows based entirely on your stuff.

Chris Harris 1:02:31 Oh, it's just extraordinary.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:02:32 But the Ch-

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 It's interesting, and they don't-

Chris Harris 1:02:33 ... the Chinese example was the best for me, though. I love that. A guy comes up and goes-

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 Well, the best is that they didn't, he had no shame about it.

Chris Harris 1:02:38 But he, but actually-

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Felt like he was doing nothing wrong.

Chris Harris 1:02:40 ... culturally, they don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. I mean, do you remember-

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 Right.

Chris Harris 1:02:44 ... I mean, you have to take the Chinese car industry seriously now. But 15 years ago, there used to be a sort of underground recess of, uh, at Detroit Motor Show where the Chinese car companies would be. And it was a, it was a sort of, it was a grim catacomb of, of imitation.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 1:02:59 So you'd go underneath and there'd be like, their version of a BMW X5, which was literally like someone had gone with a BMW X5 t- to draw one and done their own version of it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 1:03:08 They would just shamelessly copy stuff because there was no, there were no IP laws over there. Culturally, they didn't acknowledge imitation. You just do what you want. I, I've, I reacted terribly at the time. I sort of understand now that if you don't get that from the, from the age of one, you can't learn it afterwards.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 Right.

Chris Harris 1:03:25 But they were shameless. And I can remember being, again, at the Geneva Motor Show, you'd go to the, particularly the Japanese cars, and you'd wanna sit in the back of a new one. You couldn't, 'cause there'd be Chinese engineers from car companies measuring them there.

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 Wow.

Chris Harris 1:03:40 It'd be, be like 20 minutes. They'd have these laser rules out going, just getting all the measurements of the interiors-

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 Wow.

Chris Harris 1:03:45 ... and of the engines and stuff. You go, "Can I look at that?" No, they're, they'd be there for 20 minutes shamelessly just copying, scanning the car.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 Wow.

Chris Harris 1:03:52 In broad daylight.

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 (laughs)

Chris Harris 1:03:54 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 They make incredible electric cars now, though.

Chris Harris 1:03:59 Oh, they're, they've, they've stolen a march on everyone.

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 Ch- China-

Chris Harris 1:04:02 They really have.

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 ... has made, they, they make some unbelievable cars.

Chris Harris 1:04:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:06 I've watched some of them reviewed online. You can't even get them in America, but I watched some of them reviewed online and they're just fucking fantastic.

Chris Harris 1:04:14 Th- th- they are, they've definitely had an advantage over Europe. Uh, I can't say for America 'cause you have Tesla, which is, you know, the only other global leader in that area. But the European car industry has been caught napping.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 Mm.

Chris Harris 1:04:27 And, and it's a bit of a worry for someone like me that, you know, I'm very fond of a lot of the European brands, but they're struggling.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 Mm.

Chris Harris 1:04:33 They're struggling to respond to this. There are boats full of very impressive, very good value electric cars that have landed in Europe in the last six months.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 There's also a problem with European cars in that European cars are always known for having a great resale value.

Chris Harris 1:04:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Like particularly, like, Lamborghini and Porsche and like, Ferrari. You could actually make more money off of them in a few years than... But not electric ones.

Chris Harris 1:04:59 Nope.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 That's the problem. Like electric Taycans, you know, those things are gorgeous. They're, that's an incredible vehicle. Good luck trying to sell that thing. Nobody will... I saw Lucid Airs, which is a fantastic car.

Chris Harris 1:05:12 Have you been in one of those?

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 No, I haven't.

Chris Harris 1:05:13 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 I've heard their, th- heard the Sapphire is magnificent.

Chris Harris 1:05:16 It's extraordinary.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 You can't, you, you, you're gonna get like, half the price of that thing-

Chris Harris 1:05:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 ... in a year.

Chris Harris 1:05:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 (laughs) Which is fucking nuts.

Chris Harris 1:05:25 I know. The Taycan in Amer- in, sorry, in the U- UK early one, 30,000 pounds.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Unbelievable.

Chris Harris 1:05:32 Someone paid 120 for that three years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 Crazy.

Chris Harris 1:05:35 And-

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 It's still really good.

Chris Harris 1:05:37 It is. It's a very, again, for particular people.

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 Yes.

Chris Harris 1:05:42 May- maybe the thing I, the point I didn't make earlier, I have to excuse myself a bit jet lagged for my confused thoughts sometimes, is that the electric car has one unspoken fact about it. It's for rich people.

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Mm.

Chris Harris 1:05:56 That's what I find quite difficult.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 Right.

Chris Harris 1:05:58 There's a meritocracy about the motorcar that I find appealing, is that y- you can have a Bugatti Veyron or Chiron, or you could be some guy that lives in India that's got a little thing that costs 100 quid or $100. You're ultimately getting the same thing. You have the, you have the freedom to travel, to choose where you're going. And I think in a, in a... I like you, I like to, I don't wanna be told what to do. And I think it's really important that that vehicle can take you where you want to go. But the electric vehicle is for rich people.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 Mm-hmm.

Chris Harris 1:06:28 Isn't it?

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:06:29 You think about it. You, you, you show me the, the electric vehicle for, for normal people.

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 Well, it's terrible for people that live in apartment complexes.

Chris Harris 1:06:35 It doesn't exist.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 Unless you have some sort of a charging station where you park your car and everybody has one so you could leave it charged overnight, it's rough.

Chris Harris 1:06:43 But look at the cost of them.

Joe Rogan 1:06:44 Yeah. You know-

Chris Harris 1:06:45 And you-

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 ... very expensive, terrible resale value.Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:06:48 ... you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 Yeah.

Chris Harris 1:06:48 I, I, I, it's, it's a very flawed concept at the moment. But y- but as you say, the performance of them can be ... Your, your Plaid is a great example.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 It's a time machine.

Chris Harris 1:06:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 It's a time machine.

Chris Harris 1:06:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 It really is. It merges in traffic silently, like shoo. It goes faster than anything. It doesn't seem real. It's incredible. And I'm sen- ... The new one that I'm getting, I'm sending to, uh, it's already sent to Unplugged Performance. Are you aware of those guys?

Chris Harris 1:07:15 Uh, so they tune them, do they?

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 Yes.

Chris Harris 1:07:17 'Cause it needs to be faster, doesn't it, Joe?

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 And they ... No. Well, they, they change the suspension. It, uh, it's not any faster.

Chris Harris 1:07:22 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:07:22 They, they use the same power train, but they change the suspension, they widen the front and rear, and they just m- ... They upgrade the brakes. They make it much more, just agile.

Chris Harris 1:07:34 I think the main thing it needs is some sort of, uh, jet-washable, pressure-washable floor, 'cause I think passengers will eventually shit kidneys out.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 (laughs)

Chris Harris 1:07:43 They're so fast.

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 Yeah. They're-

Chris Harris 1:07:45 They're ... Well, he, he's gonna come out with a- Actually, they're shocking.

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 ... Roadster, which is gonna be insane, which is basically vaporware now. Didn't people, like, pay full price for those things, like, five years ago? Uh-

Chris Harris 1:07:54 He, he's, he's fascinating. I know he's been on your show. Uh, I, I, I don't know what to make of