EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,166 words- 0:00 – 15:00
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…
- NANarrator
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right. Joe, what's happening?
- MWMatt Walsh
Hey. Great to be back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to-
- MWMatt Walsh
Thanks for having me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Your movie is really funny. It's really-
- MWMatt Walsh
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
... funny. By myself, laughing out loud hysterically today. Had, m- I watched it-
- MWMatt Walsh
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
... in the sauna, I watched it in the gym, I watched it, uh... It, it was... It's one of the best comedies I've seen in a long time (laughs) 'cause there's so many moments in it that are so uncomfortable.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, that means a lot. I appreciate that. Yeah. That's what we're, what we're hoping for.
- JRJoe Rogan
The Robin D... (laughs) The Robin DiAngelo one, where you gave that guy money for reparations and you got her-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and she thought it was uncomfortable. (laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. That was kind of a-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
... we got... When we-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
When we had the idea for the, for the film, to talk about race, we knew we needed to get Robin DiAngelo. I didn't think we'd get her, 'cause I figured she'd be a lot more-
- JRJoe Rogan
Savvy?
- MWMatt Walsh
... cautious.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah, savvy and cautious. Uh, but apparently she doesn't, she has no idea what's happening outside of her bubble at all. So, she didn't know who I was. I mean, I gave her my name and she had no clue. So...
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, so, but we, we kinda went into that knowing wha- what the end was supposed to be. If we could get her... We came up with that idea, we went to a bar, uh, the night before the interview, and we came up with this idea, could we get her to actually pay reparations to Ben, our Black producer?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
And, uh, we had to kinda talk him into it.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
And, you know, it was really just like, in real time, I was there for about two hours, and it was an hour and a half of the most mind-numbing conversation where I'm just... None of that's in the movie, 'cause it's just me, like, fluff questions, and I, and I'm, and I'm repeating back to her own ideas so she knows that I'm a safe person.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you remember that?
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
B- because, like, they could... Like, they destroyed things that were a part of human history that we would have studied for thousands of years.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they destroyed them because they didn't go along with their religious ideology. And I think part of the woke thing is this religious ideology that has to be followed, and you, you cannot stray from the lines, you have to stay inside whatever this ideology is promoting and telling you what to do. And one of the things was that you had to take down all these statues of terrible people, and I remember Trump saying at the time, "Well, the problem with that is, like, eventually they're gonna take down George Washington." And everybody thought he was crazy. Like, that's a crazy thing to say. But once they got past Civil War people, then they got to who owned slaves, and then they got to taking down... They wanted to take down statues of Thomas Jefferson and eventually did get to George Washington.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. And that was always, it was always gonna go that way, because George Washington... The Founding Fathers owned slaves. Uh, not only that, but they were rebels, you know, rebelling against a governmental authority, and if they had lost then they all would have been, uh, hanged as traitors and that's how they'd be remembered. Thankfully they didn't, but... So there's a... It's actually, there's a, there's a... It's not that far of a leap to go from, from one to the other, and of course the issue is that everybody who lived on Earth prior to about, certainly prior to 100 years ago, is racist by our standards today. Every single one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
There was no one who lived on Earth 100 years ago who w- we would not consider racist. Anywhere, of any race. Um, if you go back 200 years or, or earlier than that, almost everybody either owned slaves or was okay with slavery as an institution. You go back 500 years, and there was nobody on the planet who, who considered slavery to be wrong fundamentally. They might have had issues with how slaves are treated in some contexts, but it took, like, thousands of years for it to ever even occur to a single human on Earth that slavery is actually fundamentally wrong. Uh, which is a crazy thing, and that's actually an interesting thing we could, you could talk about and, and think about, like, why is that? How could it be that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
... it's so obvious to us, but the, some of the greatest minds of history, they never thought of it? Uh, but we can't talk about that because we have to talk about slavery and racism as if they're exclusively white Western phenomena.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, v- I've had friends that have a different perspective on the Obama situation, and, uh, my friend Willie was talking to me about this, and he was saying that what happened was when you... Look, one thing that we can be sure of is that racists are real. There are real racists in this country. There's real anti-Black racists, anti-Asian racists, there's certain people that have hateful ideology in this country, just in, a certain percentage of them in the world, so th- those are real. And when Obama became president, those people became more emboldened, and he said that he saw a lot more of that online and a lot more attacks and, especially in uncensored online forums like 4Chan and places where you can kind of get away with saying whatever the fuck you want. He said he saw a lot more of that on the streets, and he said this is probably why he believed Michelle Obama didn't want to run for president, because she experienced so much of that hate while they were in the White House. Forget about hate for their...... their policies and w- what you think about them as president and vice- and- and first lady. But the- the racism hate. So, his perspective as a Black guy was like, you had to be a Black person to realize how angry people were that there was a Black guy who was president, because that was real too. It was real that racism in America and racial relations in America had changed radically since the 1960s, certainly since the 1920s and '30s, and- and over the years, just kept getting better. But i- in his mind, there was something that happened where when, uh, Barack Obama got into the White House that the real hardcore racists got very vocal. And he experienced it. And I think this is akin, in some ways, to what's going on with antisemitism online because, uh, I think there's always been a certain amount of people in this country and in the world that are like, deeply antisemitic and, uh, they just don't like Jews. And when something happens where all of a sudden now it's okay to criticize Jews because of Israel's position in Gaza and what they've done, now you see antisemitism just pop out of the woodwork. I think there's- there's something like that where people feel emboldened to talk about things. So- so like, maybe we just don't have an accurate account of how fucked up some people are. But the general population, and whether you're conservative or whether you're a l- liberal, everybody kind of agrees that racism is a stupid thing. There's amazing people of all ethnicities and colors and you should judge people, like Martin Luther King said, by the content of their character. We all agree with that. But there's a certain amount of people that are always going to be racist. But when you start looking for it everywhere and saying everything is racist, first of all, you are... It's an insult to real racism. It's an insult to the people that are the victims of real racism when you consider microaggressions or cutting in line in front of you to get ice cream. That's a vic- there's people that are real victims of racism. And pretending that everything is racist just minimizes that and in fact makes, probably makes more people racist. It's gonna make a bunch of dumb liberals like- like- drop to their knees or give you money for reparations. But it's gonna make a bunch of other people really resentful and it just polarizes us and- and drives people further and further apart.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just genuinely stupid.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and I- I think that's- that's true, um, uh, what- what he said about... I'm sure that when there's a Black president that... We know there are real racists out there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
There are anti-Black racists, there are anti-white racists, but they're out there and social media was also really coming online around that time so people had a- a forum to express this kind of stuff and-
- JRJoe Rogan
And anonymously.
- MWMatt Walsh
Anonymously. And so yeah, those people come out of the woodwork. I'm sure... That did happen, I don't deny that. The difference though is that, uh, that kind of racism is personal and individual. It's not systemic. It's not in the system.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
And also, it's absolutely rejected, uh, by society. It's absolutely rejected by polite society. So, there's a reason why they had to go to 4chan or whatever to express those views 'cause you can't come out in public and say it. Uh, with... And if you do, it'll be like the end of your- whatever your career is. It's probably the end of it. Uh, and that's kind of... That's the most you're gonna... When it comes... As you said, there's never gonna be a time when there's no racists in the world so the most you can do is, "Okay, we're not gonna have this stuff systemically. We're gonna- the system's gonna treat everybody equally, great. We've crossed that off the list, we've already done that. Um, actually we've gone too far because you have affirmative action where now you're discriminating against white and Asian people but... So anti-Black racism is out of the system. Fantastic, that's good. Uh, it's not accepted by mainstream society. Great." And then... So that's kind of it. I mean, what else can we do with this? Uh, you can't- you can't get inside people's hearts and make them not feel things. Those people are gonna be out there. They know that it's not accepted in mainstream society and uh, and I- I kind of think y- you- you could sort of move on from it culturally to other issues. It's not a major issue anymore. Um, but they won't allow it, and you're right that then it's got this pendulum thing where okay, well if you go after white people and you demonize them relentlessly, and you do it practically from birth now through the school system, some of those white people are gonna end up being s- stricken by guilt or they're gonna walk around feeling like they're guilty for something. That's the- the white guilt liberal thing. But then you're gonna have others who, uh, kind of become exactly what you accuse them of being because they're like, "Oh, you know what? If you're gonna call me racist anyway then you know what? Fine." Um, and there's been a resentment that builds up and- and you actually create more of it, which I think they're happy about. If- if actual racism i- is increasing in society, I don't know if it is or not, but I think the people that call themselves anti-racists are quite happy about that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, business is booming, but the other thing is like, think about Robin DiAngelo who you said l- just lives in her own bubble and really doesn't- didn't know who you were and didn't catch on at any point in time that-
- MWMatt Walsh
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... n- any of this stuff was ridiculous. Like these people that this... If that's all you think about and that's all you kind of... Like I have friends that, uh, live in California and every now and then I'll talk to them and w- some politics issue will come up and they give me this fucking CNBC, they give me this MSNBC, this fucking propaganda viewpoint on something that's so wrong which is so... And I just go, "Okay. I- I can't." Like you're- you're in. You're- in your bubble, there's no... there's no real discourse.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's no real disc- there's no discussions about whether or not what these people are saying is correct. It's just you're part of this tribe and this is what you believe.And I think that's the case with these anti-racist people too. They might not... Some of 'em might be, like, just hardcore grifters. Like, they could be playing three-card monty, or they could just get corporations to give them money by, by saying that everybody's racist. There's some people that are definitely like that. But there's other people that are just, that's their friend group. Like, that's their social circle. Their social circles, all people believe this stupid shit, and they all yap it to each other and they, they say it like it's a mantra and they pray five times a day with it. You know, it's really like a religious thing.
- MWMatt Walsh
I think it is like a re- yeah, I think you're exactly right about that. I, that's, that's why for me, the more... So, the grifters that are getting paid, that's not that complicated to figure out why they're doing it. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
... they're getting, they're getting paid.
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of 'em.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, a lot of them are. And, and even when they're not, there's pow- there's still power and influence, and they're being consulted as kind of these moral gurus, which is v- which is very, it strokes the egos. So, they-
- 30:00 – 45:00
It's a death sentence.…
- MWMatt Walsh
but for a lot of j- nor- normal people, especially-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a death sentence.
- MWMatt Walsh
Right, to be called that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Socially.
- MWMatt Walsh
It's like the worst thing in the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
They're terrified of it. Uh, they'd rather, they'd literally rather be called anything than racist.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
Um, and then f- so for them, once you... Those kinds of people, when that's the threat, ra- when being called racist is a threat, you can get them to do anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
And, um, we've... I mean, I don't... Spoilers or whatever, but the, in the movie at the... uh, the last thing in the movie when I do my own anti-racist workshop-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
... with these people, and they're all real people.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
And we, we get them to join in on some things that are really, like, morally repugnant.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh-... be- because they, they're terrified of being called racist publicly. They, they, they can't stand that thought.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the other thing that happens with kids is if you have a thing, like, you're telling the kid they have to be anti-racist, well some kids are gonna use that as a, a platform to increase, you know, what- whatever social cred that they have and they get feedback from it, it's positive feedback, and they, they, they get very vocal. And the more vocal, the more people are impressed and the more work they do, the more people are going, "You're doing great work." And then you get what's essentially, like, the racial version of Greta Thunberg. Like, what i- what is that lady? That lady's moral outrage and, "What have you done? How dare you?" And everybody's like, "Yes." (claps)
- MWMatt Walsh
(claps)
- JRJoe Rogan
"We like what you just did." And so now you do it all the time. And so now, somehow or another, a 16-year-old kid travels all over the world telling everybody they're bad, flying around in jets telling everybody they're bad for ruining the environment. Like-
- MWMatt Walsh
And, and she gets to feel-
- JRJoe Rogan
Morally superior.
- MWMatt Walsh
... super- Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Morally superior. Virtuous. And, e- for a child to be in a position where they become virtuous is ... you know, they love that. They love that.
- MWMatt Walsh
To be in a position where they can lecture adults.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Lecture-
- MWMatt Walsh
Where adults are looking to them as l- as authorities.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Um, k- college kids love to do that. The moment they're out of their house, the moment they don't have their parents telling 'em what to do anymore, now they can tell other people what to do. And it's just like ... It's ... One thing that you see online (clears throat) from people who have been bullied in the past, um, people that have been picked on and fucked with, boy they like to do it to people, like o- online, on Twitter mobs. They like to jump in. And I know a lot of people that have, that I've, I've known a lot of people that have engaged in these things. I've, I've known them personally. These feeble, weak, terrified men and they say the most heinous things about people. Like, uncharitable, not knowing, you, y- like, what, what kind of response these words are gonna have in that person. And they, they bully these people because they've been hurt. You know? It's that hurt people hurt people thing. That's what it is. But they don't think it's a violent ... They don't think it's as bad as bullying, like, in real, real life bullying's terrible. You're gonna hit somebody? How dare you, you fucking monster. Well, you're emotionally scarring people online every day and you think you're doing it through this ... When y- it's like, one of the things ... Elon's talked about this, that one of the things that woke does i- it allows really mean people, this ideology allows really mean, shitty people to have a, a virtuous way of expressing that.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. I think that's, that's right. And, and also the internet ... I mean, the whole idea that the internet isn't real, we hear it all the time. That's why I hate it when people say, uh, "Well, Twitter isn't real life." But ... And I understand what's meant by that when people say that, but it actually is real life because these are, these are human beings who are communicating with each other. Now, there are bots too, but if you're a human being on Twitter saying something, that's real life. It's not, it's not fake. This isn't happening in some kind of dream world.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
80%? …
- JRJoe Rogan
doing it. And at this point in time, we have to accept the reality of propaganda, and that there ... You know, we've talked about this ad nauseum, but I'll say it again. There was a, an FBI, uh, former analyst did, um, some sort of a study on Twitter where he was, uh, estimating the amount of bots versus ... This is be- like right around the time when Elon was saying that it's more than 5%. He said he thinks it's about 80%. He thinks 80%-
- MWMatt Walsh
80%?
- JRJoe Rogan
... of the accounts. Yeah, 80% of the accounts are fake accounts, which just stop and think about if you're in a country, okay? Let's imagine you want the politics of America to swing in a certain direction, 'cause we most certainly do this in other countries. I mean, w- we don't have to educate people on the long history of interventionist foreign policy, where we have gone in and installed new leaders of countries and organized all kinds of shit. So, we do it, and we do it, and we know they do it, but isn't it, like, the cheapest way to do it, wouldn't it be to do it on social media?
- MWMatt Walsh
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And if you did it, why would you do it with, like, one account? Why wouldn't you have a million accounts? I would have a million accounts. Like, uh, just gotta get a computer that keeps making new accounts. And you run a program. It's not the most difficult thing to do. For people that know how to actually code operating systems. You don't think there's someone out there that can code a computer program that can operate millions of different Twitter accounts, and you run it through some sort of a AI that you've developed, some large language model on things to say about MAGA, or things to say about abortion, or things to say about conservatives, or things to say about liberals, and you put a fucking American flag in your little bio and ... Or you put a pronoun thing, he/hur/zis/zir, whatever it is. And then you just flood the internet with fake anger and fake discourse, and you lie about people, and you ... A- anytime there's a post about anything controversial, you insert something in there that gets people even more riled up. You could get people ... You could swing the vote. You could swing the vote in one way or another, especially with fence-sitters, with people that are not sure, like, "I don't know. Is Trump really the answer?" And then you get online, and you see a- a- all this hateful shit, or you might get on a MAGA forum, and you go, "Oh, the, the, the ... There are, they are eating cats. He was telling the truth. ABC's biased." And you could swing it one way or the other, and I think they're all trying to manipulate it. All these foreign governments, and I think internally in the United States, I'm sure there are groups that are doing it too, that are manipulating things in one way or the other in a disingenuous way because it's available. And I don't know how to stop it. I think the only way for you to not personally be really affected by it is you have to understand that it exists, and then you have to recognize that, you know, some of these takes are not even real human beings. So, instead of saying, "Jesus Christ, people really think that way?" Go, uh, "Maybe not." Like, maybe this isn't ... Maybe there's a few people that think that way, but you're being led to believe that it's a huge movement of people when it might not be. But the problem is when it b- ... Even if it's fake, people are so stupid that even if it's a fake thing that becomes a bit of a movement online with fake, dumb people will jump in there, and then it'll become a real thing.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you aware of, uh, (laughs) the, uh, the free bleeding movement that 4chan pushed?
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah, I think I heard of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
But then it, it became kinda real, didn't it?
- JRJoe Rogan
It became real! That's what I'm saying. Or flat Earth. It's the same thing. It became a joke. Uh, people were fucking around at first. We've known the Earth has not been flat for a long-ass time-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then-
- MWMatt Walsh
But now that's totally real, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Now it's totally real. Now there's massive groups of people that think the Earth is flat.
- MWMatt Walsh
Which isn't ... I, I can't.
- JRJoe Rogan
I can. I can't-
- MWMatt Walsh
I don't know how that ... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you can't, but the thing is, that's how dumb people are, that you can have a fake thing and say it enough times and enough people jump in and be on board with it, and then it becomes a real thing. And then you don't even have to, like, uh, use propaganda anymore. These morons are doing it for you.
- MWMatt Walsh
The thing that gets me about the flat Earth thing is, uh-... 'cause I didn't realize that it was a real thing until, I don't know, a few years ago, I did... I wrote s-... I posted something about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
And all these comments from, from real people, that, uh, that, uh, that... Eh, what, what gets me is... Well, yeah, the people that say, "I think the Earth's flat," and that's ins-... You're just, just really stupid. But what I... I was more fascinated by the, like, 80% of people who... 80% of the f-... of the flat Earth crowd, 80% of them, their take was, "Well, I'm, I don't... I'm not saying the Earth is flat, but I'm, I'm open to it. So I'm-"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- MWMatt Walsh
"... I'm open to the possibility." How are you... I, I get it if you're just completely stupid and you got sucked into this cult thing, but what I don't get is, how can you be... (laughs) how can you be on the fence about whether... about the shape of the Earth?
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's just people that really are not educated. That's, that's number one. And people that believe that there's a collusion that's so large that all of the space agencies, from Japan, from China, from Russia, all of them are liars. That all of them are colluding together to hide the true shape of the Earth, because if we really knew the Earth was flat, then we would... it would... i- it always is connected to some sort of a Bible thing. Like, it's the firmament and they believe that, that we're, we're hiding the fact that God is real and somehow there's some mass conspiracy that all these world governments and e-... a- every person that ever was involved in the space agencies, they've all hid from us.
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah. A- and the m-... The... Your moon landing, you're not a... You, you believe in the moon landing, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
I used to believe in the moon landing.
- MWMatt Walsh
You don't anymore?
- JRJoe Rogan
I had a joke in my act about it, that before COVID, I would have told you vaccine's the most important invention in human history, and after COVID, I'm like, "I don't think we went to the moon."
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah, I know that was in your act, but do you-
- 1:00:00 – 1:12:42
Yes. …
- JRJoe Rogan
pass this off as the real thing." Which is, you know, you're also talking about the Nixon administration, where they were just f- full of shit constantly. If you remember, this is where he tried-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to claim it was from, which is f- a Russian video, and now- Yeah. So, there's different video where they, they ran it through and they said it was real, and it was the, was it the Chinese program? But when they ran the American ones, the American images, they said that they were doctored. Again, it doesn't mean that we didn't go to the moon. But it does mean, okay, there's that. That's weird. Have you ever seen the Apollo 11 post-flight press conference?
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It looks like a hostage video. It looks like a bunch of guys who don't wanna be there, they look real fucking nervous, and they look real deceptive. And if you watch that video, it's weird.
- MWMatt Walsh
Well, but I think that's just, that's the temperament it requires to do something like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Could be.
- MWMatt Walsh
'Cause it, it's basically s- it's almost suicidal to go to the moon.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, and so, you have to be, like, not, barely even a human, uh, uh, psychologically, to do it. So, I don't, so that, to me, is just like ... and they just went through this whole experience. I mean, who knows what that does to the human psyche? Um, uh, e- to even just, like, be in the vastness of space, even on the Space Station, I can't i- like, I feel like that would change me-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- MWMatt Walsh
... as a person.
- JRJoe Rogan
But d- it does.
- MWMatt Walsh
Not necessarily for the best.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's actually, like, a psychological condition that they talk about that is this sort of understanding that we're all connected, that a lot, it's like a, akin to a r- a religious experience that many astronauts get-
- MWMatt Walsh
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when they go up to the Space Station and look down at the Earth and they go, "Oh my God. What are we doing? Like, we're all together in this thing, and we're so alone in the universe. And for us to be fighting over these trivial differences and these stupid lines in the dirt that we draw, when we are, like..."... just clinging to this ball in the middle of everything.
- MWMatt Walsh
So what ... So then what would you say, or someone who is a, a full-on believer, as full-
- JRJoe Rogan
Not a full-on believer.
- MWMatt Walsh
Someone who is a full-on believer in the Moon hoax, what would they say to my other point that there is evidence we went to the moon. You can try to, uh, nitpick the evidence.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- MWMatt Walsh
There is zero evidence of a hoax, 'cause that's a whole other event that would've had to have happened. There is no evidence at all, not one sliver of evidence ever, of that hoax having ever happened.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I think that's a weird way to frame it. Right? Is there evidence of a hoax of the JFK assassination? That L- Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone? Do you think there's evidence?
- MWMatt Walsh
Well, but, but the, the event itself, being that J- JFK was killed-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- MWMatt Walsh
... happened.
- JRJoe Rogan
But, but ... Right. But that's not the conspiracy. So the, the conspiracy is, did he act alone? And is there evidence that he didn't act alone? What do you think?
- MWMatt Walsh
Uh, I'm, I'm very skeptical that he acted alone. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. But the-
- MWMatt Walsh
But I don't know-
Episode duration: 2:39:42
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