Joe Rogan Experience #2214 - Shane Smith

1. 0:00 – 2:37

   Why Shane Smith started a new podcast: chasing truth in the social-media fog

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music plays)

   4. SSShane Smith0:11

      Joe Fast.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      What's up?

   6. SSShane Smith0:13

      How are you?

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you.

   8. SSShane Smith0:14

      Good to see you.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      What you been up to, man? (laughs)

   10. SSShane Smith0:17

       (inhales deeply) That's a loaded question. I'm doing a, I'm doing a podcast now.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       You are doing a podcast?

   12. SSShane Smith0:23

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       When'd you start?

   14. SSShane Smith0:24

       Yeah, yeah. Uh, f- couple months ago, um-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       What made you wanna do that? Just got tired of being on the outside looking in?

   16. SSShane Smith0:30

       That's a good... So, that's it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       Yeah?

   18. SSShane Smith0:32

       You know what's... You, actually, I- I'm gonna, I'm gonna paraphrase you, so you gotta tell me the exact quote.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       Okay.

   20. SSShane Smith0:38

       But you said, um, uh, "COVID was a fucked up time, and I went in thinking that vaccines were the- the pinnacle of human technology and came out thinking that the moon landing wasn't real and Michelle Obama's got a dick and da-da-da-da."

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Yeah. (laughs)

   22. SSShane Smith0:54

       And I was like, "Ah, it was me."

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       Yeah.

   24. SSShane Smith0:57

       Like during COVID, I was like... I became obsessed with social media and- and X and, like, just looking at shit and whatever. And I'm like, you know, "What's true? What's not true?" Like, "What's... What..." Like, because everybody's speaking so forcibly. This is one, one question I wanted to ask you is, you talk to all these dudes all the time. One of the things I miss, like, I would be, I would be talking to people and be like, they'd, "Oh, this is going on with gas now," and I'd be like, "Oh, I was just there. That's not what's happening," or, you know, "This is happening. It was in Iraq. Oh, I was just there." I love talking to people, I love meeting people, and I love sort of knowing stuff.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:30

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SSShane Smith1:30

       Like, you can just say, "Well, I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna figure it out."

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Right.

   28. SSShane Smith1:33

       So, I saw all this stuff on social media and I was like, "Wow," you know? There's all this stuff, like, but no one's really going after it and saying, like, as an investigative journalist, saying what's real, what's not real, what's true, what's not true.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       Right.

   30. SSShane Smith1:46

       You are. You're getting in there.
2. 2:37 – 7:41

   RFK Jr., assassinations, and defining the “deep state” without internet caricatures

   1. SSShane Smith2:37

      Bobby Kennedy seems to be, like, so... Like, he- like, so fast. Like you- I remember-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:43

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SSShane Smith2:43

      ... I used to watch Tony Blair during question period and he'd, like, leap up and he'd be like, "Blah, blah, blah," and he was so... Like, he knew everything and facts and stuff.

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:50

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SSShane Smith2:50

      Like, you've interviewed him a bunch of times or...

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:53

      I- I've talked to him many times. I interviewed him once.

   7. SSShane Smith2:56

      Is he that good in person?

   8. JRJoe Rogan2:57

      Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's legit. I mean, he was an environmental attorney.

   9. SSShane Smith3:01

      Yeah, no, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       That's... That was his background and, you know, he's had a, I mean, a crazy life. Imagine you're 14 years old and your-

   11. SSShane Smith3:08

       Yeah, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       ... your dad gets killed by...

   13. SSShane Smith3:11

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       Who knows?

   15. SSShane Smith3:11

       Who knows?

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       But it might be the government, you know?

   17. SSShane Smith3:13

       That's- that's my first episode.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:15

       Yeah.

   19. SSShane Smith3:16

       Assassinations, deep state.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:17

       Hmm.

   21. SSShane Smith3:18

       Getting into it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:19

       Well, it's a real thing, you know? I don't know who's doing it or what faction or how small the amount of people are-

   23. SSShane Smith3:26

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       ... that are involved in it. I- I mean, imagine if you're like a legitimate person working for the CIA and you think that the CIA is trying to assassinate Trump and you're like, "What the fuck?" You know?

   25. SSShane Smith3:34

       That's, uh-

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       Or- or whoever.

   27. SSShane Smith3:36

       That's our first episode.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:38

       It's gotta be... I mean, it's gotta be a small faction of intelligence agencies that wanna do things. Like, how many people do you think were involved in the Kennedy assassination?

   29. SSShane Smith3:50

       So, there's a guy named Peter Dale Scott who actually wrote the book on the deep state and brought, like, the concept over from Turkey to here and broke it. And if you talk to him... So, he was really involved or wrote about or covered the... They tried to assassinate Castro. That was the first American deep state thing, which is, like... By the way, it's- that's- that's factual. That's, like-

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       Oh, yeah.
3. 7:41 – 8:57

   Remembering early VICE: “normal people” journalism and the magic of field stories

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:41

      Yeah, it's nonsense. Well, Vice... When you started Vice, it was one of the most refreshing news sources, because it was like these intelligent people that didn't seem like regular journalists. They seemed like just people that you knew.

   2. SSShane Smith7:58

      Yeah, 'cause they weren't... Yeah, they were just people we knew, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:00

      Right. They seem like normal people.

   4. SSShane Smith8:02

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:02

      And yet all of a sudden they're wearing a flak jacket in a war zone.

   6. SSShane Smith8:04

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:05

      They seem like normal people and they're hanging out in a hot tub in Thailand.

   8. SSShane Smith8:07

      That was it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:08

      Y- it's like, it was normal people that were interested, like-

   10. SSShane Smith8:11

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:12

       Vice guy to travel, that one with, uh, Heinemo's Arctic Adventures.

   12. SSShane Smith8:16

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:16

       That is still today one of my favorite videos you guys ever did.

   14. SSShane Smith8:19

       Awesome. Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:19

       I fucking love that story because it's amazing. You've got this guy that lives in, uh, you know-

   16. SSShane Smith8:26

       The most remote human.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:27

       Yeah.

   18. SSShane Smith8:27

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:28

       Like in, uh, this tiny cabin. He's been there since the 1970s.

   20. SSShane Smith8:31

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:32

       He doesn't even... He saw 9/11 in a photograph.

   22. SSShane Smith8:34

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       That's all he knows about it.

   24. SSShane Smith8:35

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       He doesn't have any television up there.

   26. SSShane Smith8:37

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:37

       He gets VHS tapes occasionally and watches them on a tiny TV.

   28. SSShane Smith8:41

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:41

       And he just lives in this subsistence lifestyle.

   30. SSShane Smith8:44

       Yeah.
4. 8:57 – 11:31

   Sponsor break: ZipRecruiter

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:57

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   2. SSShane Smith10:16

      Yeah, he was the most remote human until we found those people in Russia and in, like, Siberia, who had run from Stalin, and this family who had gone up into the mountains and just lived there for like 80 years.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:29

      Whoa.

   4. SSShane Smith10:30

      By themselves, like made shoes out of bark and, like, totally self-sustaining up in the mountains of Siberia. Like, they thought that... You know, they didn't know about the moon landing. They didn't know about, like-

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:40

      What- what kind of gene pool do they have going on?

   6. SSShane Smith10:42

      Not a lot.

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:43

      Like-

   8. SSShane Smith10:43

      I think there was a lot of-

   9. JRJoe Rogan10:44

      ... inbreeding?

   10. SSShane Smith10:44

       Yeah. (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       Oh, God.

   12. SSShane Smith10:46

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       How many people were there?

   14. SSShane Smith10:47

       I don't know. You could look. I don't know, it's like, uh, there was six when they found him, I think, and one was like 80 who was the youngest or something.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:55

       Oh, God.

   16. SSShane Smith10:56

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy story though.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:59

       Yeah, so they ran from Stalin just and just stayed alive?

   18. SSShane Smith11:01

       They thought Stalin was, like, you know, still there, I think.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:04

       Oh, my God.

   20. SSShane Smith11:05

       Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:06

       Isn't it funny? You can't name a kid Adolf, but you can name a kid Joseph?

   22. SSShane Smith11:09

       There you go.

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       Isn't that weird?

   24. SSShane Smith11:11

       No.

   25. JRJoe Rogan11:12

       It's a little weird.

   26. SSShane Smith11:13

       Joseph-

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:13

       Joseph was too common.

   28. SSShane Smith11:14

       Yeah, Joseph's very common.

   29. JRJoe Rogan11:15

       But wasn't Adolf really common with the- the Germans?

   30. SSShane Smith11:18

       I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. I mean, Joseph-
5. 11:31 – 16:41

   How VICE changed: consolidation, traffic incentives, and the “too big” trap

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:31

      But when you guys were... You know, when it was young, it was like, it was new internet.

   2. SSShane Smith11:36

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:36

      Right? Because internet opened up a bunch of different possibilities.

   4. SSShane Smith11:39

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:39

      And it opened up possibilities for legitimate independent journalism and legitimate independent thinkers-

   6. SSShane Smith11:45

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:45

      ... who were really disconnected from the sort of stiff, stuffy, mainstream perspective-

   8. SSShane Smith11:53

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:53

      ... of what's going on in life. And you guys gave... You gu- you guys gave a- a completely unfiltered perspective as a normal human who's experiencing these bizarre circumstances in these exotic lands. And it was awesome, man. It was awesome.

   10. SSShane Smith12:10

       Thank you.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:10

       And then-... now it's this bizarre propaganda machine that's ideologically captured to the point where it's preposterous. Like, they say things that are just so outlandish and so not in tune with logic or objectivity. It's, it's so strange to see-

   12. SSShane Smith12:32

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:32

       ... going from what you made to what it is now.

   14. SSShane Smith12:36

       Yeah, look, I mean, I could get into the, (clears throat) the nuances which are many and, and, and boring. But basically what happens is, you know, y- and I, I actually called it from the beginning, I said, "Look, we're gonna get too big, and at that point, we're gonna become the thing that we were. We were like we were a challenger brand, and we're gonna become the status quo, and then we're gonna get our asses kicked," A. B, I said, "Look, all internet is now consolidating, and, and media is consolidating, and everybody's consolidating 'cause they have to, because there's the big five are taking all the money." And we knew it was coming, but it came... Like, look, I'll tell you another thing. In media, you know, there's not a lot of people picking shit. Like, you get to pick shit 'cause you run your own shop. You're, you're the man. But, like, when you run media, it's like people put on what people watch. That's the rule. Like, you just put on shit, and people watch it. And then, like, if you say, "I wanna do this," and nobody watches it, then you don't get to say, "I wanna do this" that often. So, and w- we always had a thing where we gave the company over to the interns. If we just stayed a Gen X free giveaway, we woulda never gotten into video. In fact, when we got into video, we were derided by the old guys f- for big, for selling out because going to online video was seen as a sellout 'cause we were, shoulda stayed a magazine. So we used to give it over to the interns, and then the interns just, they had a different fucking everything. They had a different philosophy. They had a different s- subject. They had different fucking everything, and they were going, and by the way, the traffic was still there, and I was the same. I was looking at it, said, "Well, what the fuck is this?"

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:18

       Right.

   16. SSShane Smith14:18

       "What the fuck is going on?" And, you know, they're like, "Well, that's the traffic, and you're fucking things that you like gets no traffic 'cause you're an old man." So anyway, I was semi-retired for a number of years, and, uh, you know, look, the-

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:31

       When did you get out?

   18. SSShane Smith14:35

       I moved to LA, uh, I'm just trying to remember now, '15, '15, '16, around there. So I moved to LA because our biggest, uh, clients were there, the biggest platforms were there, no one was out there, and, you know, I had kids, and I was like, "Okay, like I'm gonna move to the country and commute into New York, or I can move to LA." So I moved to LA, and, and that started a whole... That wa- You know, that was not smart in retrospect (laughs) because you leave, and it starts, like, Game of Thrones shit, and-

   19. JRJoe Rogan15:06

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SSShane Smith15:07

       And then, also, quite frankly, if you wanna know the metaphysical fucking reasons why, I can get into it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:13

       Okay.

   22. SSShane Smith15:14

       All right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan15:15

       I love metaphysical reasons.

   24. SSShane Smith15:16

       There you go. Um, o- one, the best time for Vice, the time that you're talking about, the time that I loved was, you know, you would go, before all the big investors and everything, you would go to, like, Italy, right?

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SSShane Smith15:30

       And you would get a apartment, and, you know, you'd get a girlfriend, and you find an office, and you hire people that look like you or hang out like you or just are cool or whatever, and you would build it. You would buy the fucking computers on your credit card, and you would fucking go to the grandmother's place for fucking lunch in Cinque Terre. You would, like, fucking, you know, figure out all the cool places to hang out with, with your friends and stuff, and then you'd have a big party, and everyone would come, and then Vice would be launched. Then you'd get on a train and go to Sweden and do the same thing. You'd live there for six months. You'd build something. It was tangible. The mag would come out. You'd start shooting stuff, and it would be fucking awesome. And then, when it got to be, like, you fly in and you meet with lawyers and accountants, and it's shit, and then you fly out again the next day, it's terrible, right?

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       Right.

   28. SSShane Smith16:19

       And so when that happened, I was like, "Um, I won't do this anymore, and I'm not good at it." Like, I was good at building. I'm good at building. I'm good at... Like, founders are not necessarily operators, you know?

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       Right, right.

   30. SSShane Smith16:33

       One of the smart things you've done is, like, just keep your own shit your own shit. And I got, you know, my eyes were too big for my stomach in a way 'cause you're just like, "Let's keep going, fucking build, fucking go."

6. 16:41 – 22:16

   Running lean vs. building empires: staff bloat, resentment, and operational misery

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:41

      The big thing too is keep it small.

   2. SSShane Smith16:43

      Keep it small, dude. Keep it small. Keep it small.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:44

      Keep it small. Like, it's just me and Jamie, and we have a video editor that's not even local. He just gets it on the internet and helps.

   4. SSShane Smith16:50

      And also Jamie has super good vibes, which is (laughs) helps.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:52

      Yeah, no, he's the best, but it's, it's the most important. I have friends that have big podcasts-

   6. SSShane Smith16:57

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:57

      ... and they have, like, this huge staff-

   8. SSShane Smith16:59

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:00

      ... and they have all these people running around. I'm like, "What do all these people do?" And it's like they want this feeling of they're the boss of a bunch of employees-

   10. SSShane Smith17:09

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:09

       ... for some reason.

   12. SSShane Smith17:10

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       Like, they want all these production people that are creating content.

   14. SSShane Smith17:14

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       But then you have interoffice conflicts, and they're always putting out fires, and people are complaining, and then people leave and make videos talking about what a piece of shit boss you were. And it's like, hey man, you're, you're dealing in this thing where there's currency in that information. There's currency for these, these mediocre people. So you-

   16. SSShane Smith17:33

       Hundred of them.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       You hire these mediocre people, and these mediocre people attack you 'cause there's currency in attacking you, but you didn't need them in the first place. This whole thing was stupid. Like, you're making a little bit more money, but you have more problems, but you don't notice that money. Like, you have to pay attention to what you notice, right? What, uh, uh, whatever the fuck you have in your bank account, if you're, if you're a fairly wealthy person, and you have $100 more or $100 less or $1,000 more or $1,000 less, you don't notice it. But I'll tell you what you do notice. You notice hassle. You notice problems. Those problems are worth a lot of money to get rid of. Like, if you had a bunch of employees, like, "Fuck, what can I do? There's so many people. It's so annoying. God, I wish we were small again." Getting back to small again is a grind. You gotta fire people. It's a, you gotta downsize. You gotta figure out how to do it.That's a mess, man. You don't want that mess. So that extra money that you got by making things too big, you fucked yourself. You got greedy. You, you looked at it the wrong... Like someone said to me, like, uh, I was in the parking lot at The Comedy Store, and this friend of mine who's not even very successful-

   18. SSShane Smith18:37

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:38

       ... was like, um, "I'm, uh, trying to find a new assistant." I go, "Why do you need a new assistant?" He goes, "You don't have an assistant?" I go, "No." I go, "This is what you do. Do less shit. If you need an assistant, you're doing too many things. Do less shit. Don't get a fucking assistant. If you have an assistant, you have... What happens to David Spade? The guy shows up with duct tape and a taser and tries to kill you."

   20. SSShane Smith18:58

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:59

       Remember that?

   22. SSShane Smith18:59

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:00

       'Cause they wind up resenting you.

   24. SSShane Smith19:01

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:01

       'Cause if you got some person who's working for you, he's making $50,000 a year and you're making... You have $50 million, they wanna kill you.

   26. SSShane Smith19:07

       Yeah, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:07

       After a while, they're like, "I'm a part of this too."

   28. SSShane Smith19:09

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:10

       You know, like, they don't think of it as, "This is a great job."

   30. SSShane Smith19:13

       Yeah.
7. 22:16 – 38:39

   Stuff, status, and the psychic burden: cars, watches, and what actually feels good

   1. SSShane Smith22:16

      I'll go a step further than that, is you've... You... I don't know about you, but you accumulate shit, right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan22:22

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SSShane Smith22:22

      And I... 'Cause I never had anything. I was like, like, ah, fucking... I got into watches, you know, I got into shit, I got into art, and then I got... Like I don't even fucking drive, and I got, like I got Johnny Cash's fucking car from 1969.

   4. JRJoe Rogan22:33

      What kind of car is that?

   5. SSShane Smith22:34

      So in 1969 Johnny Cash had a, had, uh, the number one show in America, and ABC got him a one-of-a-kind Rolls-Royce, extra long body, all, all black, black mahogany interior.

   6. JRJoe Rogan22:46

      Ooh.

   7. SSShane Smith22:46

      And check this out, so (clears throat) uh, I got it... Uh, so it was me and Wayne Newton bid... Remember I used to gamble. So I was in Vegas, won a bunch of money. I was... Actually had to fly to China and my buddy stayed there, and he was... Me and, me and Wayne Newton, uh, uh, bidding against, uh, each other for, for Johnny Cash's car. And, uh, and when we got it, you know, it... It just was like burning fucking fuel oils, just black smoke coming out.

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:10

      Right, it looked terrible.

   9. SSShane Smith23:11

      So I got... I turned it into a Tesla, and-

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:14

       No.

   11. SSShane Smith23:14

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fucking awesome, dude. It's awesome. We chopped it down. Just turned it... We kept everything. We fucking-

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:19

       Where is this? Is it online? Can I see this thing?

   13. SSShane Smith23:21

       You can see... Yeah, yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:22

       Did you put it online?

   15. SSShane Smith23:23

       No, but there-

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:24

       No?

   17. SSShane Smith23:24

       There's a pic... There's pictures. Here, I'll just show it to you.

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       Can you send it to Jamie so we can see it? Everybody can see it?

   19. SSShane Smith23:29

       Just pull up Johnny Cash's Rolls-Royce, 1969. It's a black, all-black Rolls-Royce. So I turned it into a Tesla, redid the whole interior, fucking r- uh...

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:40

       Who did that for you?

   21. SSShane Smith23:41

       I'd have to get the fucking, the name, uh...

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       That's it. Oh, look at that. (laughs)

   23. SSShane Smith23:45

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:46

       What would Johnny Cash feel- (laughs)

   25. SSShane Smith23:48

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan23:48

       ... about his Rolls-Royce getting Tesla power?

   27. SSShane Smith23:50

       I think he'd fucking love it, 'cause I was out with Rick Rubin in that car yesterday.

   28. JRJoe Rogan23:53

       But that's Johnny Cash, not Johnny Carson.

   29. SSShane Smith23:55

       Johnny Cash.

   30. JRJoe Rogan23:56

       Right. Didn't you say Johnny Carson?
8. 38:39 – 49:13

   Gen X perspective: the best historical window—plus social media’s mental toll

   1. SSShane Smith38:39

      You don't have that much time. I was talking to somebody. You're Gen X? You're Gen X.

   2. JRJoe Rogan38:43

      Yeah, yeah, '67. What's that?

   3. SSShane Smith38:44

      Yeah, you're Gen, you're Gen X.

   4. JRJoe Rogan38:45

      Yeah.

   5. SSShane Smith38:46

      I was saying to someone, 'cause we were the forgotten generation, and everyone, like everyone was shitting on us (laughs) but like ... And I was saying to someone, if you look at, you know, the Carl Sagan thing of like, we live in the greatest envelope of history ever, like of the billions of planets and the billions of years of this planet, like, we live in this final time when there's oxygen and there's water, and you can fucking eat, and you can fucking, you know. And then I'm like, okay, if you look at that and then go, the best ever time has been like our little window.

   6. JRJoe Rogan39:15

      Mm.

   7. SSShane Smith39:15

      Like, born in the '60s, grew up in the '70s, fucking free to go play in the crick and fucking-

   8. JRJoe Rogan39:19

      Yeah.

   9. SSShane Smith39:19

      ... you know, go hunting and fishing and all that shit. And then, you know, no parental supervision. Then you ... But there's never been a, like a major fucking war, and we, we're not getting pitchforked in the stomach. You know, food has been like ... For the first time really in history, food is now, e- everywhere is good for every kinda, you know, like quality wise, you know?

   10. JRJoe Rogan39:37

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SSShane Smith39:39

       Uh, travel, luxury, fucking international travel. Me- like being able to do freaky jobs rather than work in a factory, da-da. Like, all these fucking things happened for Gen X, and God knows if it happens again, 'cause AI is gonna be all human endeavor done by machines and environmental shit and fucking, you know, the, the world is changing in ways we can't even fucking imagine. I have young kids and, you know, my, all the parents were clucking like hens about fu- they're not learning math. They're like, "It's ... AI is gonna change fucking everything."

   12. JRJoe Rogan40:10

       Yeah.

   13. SSShane Smith40:10

       And so, so I'm like, I was talking to someone, I was saying, it's g- it's ironic but Gen X actually lived in the greatest historical window of all time potentially, and so I'm not gonna just fucking not enjoy that. I'm gonna go out there in life and just be like d- I'm literally living in the greatest single fucking window in the history of history.

   14. JRJoe Rogan40:30

       We most certainly have. And we live in the greatest time of, uh, technological change-

   15. SSShane Smith40:35

       100%, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan40:35

       ... in human history. We, we started out, like you and I can remember when phones were attached to the wall.

   17. SSShane Smith40:40

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan40:41

       I remember when it was like (imitates phone spinning) . We had to spin the wheel-

   19. SSShane Smith40:44

       It was an event.

   20. JRJoe Rogan40:44

       ... to make a phone call.

   21. SSShane Smith40:45

       You got a call.

   22. JRJoe Rogan40:46

       And if you fucked up, like, "Goddamn it."

   23. SSShane Smith40:48

       You gotta start again.

   24. JRJoe Rogan40:48

       You gotta hang up and start from scratch.

   25. SSShane Smith40:49

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan40:50

       Took a long time to make a phone call.

   27. SSShane Smith40:51

       "Joe, there's a phone call for you."

   28. JRJoe Rogan40:53

       Right, and when people would call and you were on the phone, it would just be busy.

   29. SSShane Smith40:58

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan40:59

       Eh, eh, eh, eh.
9. 49:13 – 1:12:35

   UBI, purpose, and education in an AI economy: keeping people alive vs. keeping them sane

   1. JRJoe Rogan49:13

      This is my fear with universal basic income, which I think is inevitable.

   2. SSShane Smith49:17

      Yeah. It's an ev-

   3. JRJoe Rogan49:18

      I think-

   4. SSShane Smith49:18

      It has-

   5. JRJoe Rogan49:18

      ... it's inevitable.

   6. SSShane Smith49:19

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan49:19

      Yeah, I think that's the only way we're gonna be able to keep people alive.

   8. SSShane Smith49:22

      100%.

   9. JRJoe Rogan49:22

      And my fear is that we're gonna have too much control over those people if we do that, and then peop- those people will have no purpose. And we'll have an even more disenfranchised population than we have today. And the haves and the have-nots will be even further and further apart. And y- and there's no real education that is in school today where you take a child and you say, "Hey, look, the world is going to change, and most of these jobs are gonna be useless. You're gonna have to find something that you love that resonates with people."

   10. SSShane Smith49:50

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan49:50

       And if you do that, people are gonna be willing to exchange that for money.

   12. SSShane Smith49:53

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan49:54

       Whatever it is. If you can make-

   14. SSShane Smith49:56

       Ceramics.

   15. JRJoe Rogan49:56

       ... like this, this table. A, a guy-

   16. SSShane Smith49:58

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan49:58

       ... named Drew made this table. This, I know the man who made it, he is a carpenter. He made a table-

   18. SSShane Smith50:03

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan50:03

       ... out of wood. We, we gave him the specifications. I told him I like oak.

   20. SSShane Smith50:08

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan50:08

       You're like, this is a handmade thing.

   22. SSShane Smith50:10

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan50:10

       And a handmade thing is always-

   24. SSShane Smith50:11

       Worthy.

   25. JRJoe Rogan50:11

       ... to me, is gonna be very valuable.

   26. SSShane Smith50:13

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan50:13

       I love a handmade knife.

   28. SSShane Smith50:15

       Yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan50:15

       You know? I g- I love, I love things that someone worked on.

   30. SSShane Smith50:19

       Built, yeah.

Episode duration: 2:35:41