Joe Rogan Experience #2220 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

1. 0:00 – 1:57

   Kamala Harris invite, campaign control, and why Rogan won’t “do it on their turf”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music plays) Oh, well. Boy, I wish there was something to talk about. (laughs)

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin0:15

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs)

   6. FFFrancis Foster0:15

      (Laughs) You guys are coming here, I'm like, "I love these guys so much, too bad it's just there's nothing going on."

   7. KKKonstantin Kisin0:22

      Well, I heard you, you might have needed to cancel on us to get, uh, Kamala Harris on.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:27

      I was not gonna do that. Um, I would've had to ... I knew you guys flew from England and I wasn't gonna cancel on you because I ... She had an opportunity to come in. It's almost, it's ... You could look at this and you could say, "Oh, you're being a diva." But she had an opportunity to come here when she was in Texas, and I, I literally gave them an open invitation. I said, "Anytime." I said, "If she's done at 10 o'clock, I'll, we'll come back here at 10 o'clock."

   9. KKKonstantin Kisin0:49

      Mm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       I go, "I'll do it at 9:00 in the morning, I'll do it at 10:00 PM. I'll do it at midnight if she's up, she wants to, you know, drink a Red Bull, fucking party on."

   11. KKKonstantin Kisin0:57

       Yeah, but I think this idea that you're being a diva is silly, 'cause you were asking her, you're offering her the opportunity to do exactly what the other candidate did, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Well, she actually reached out when she found out that he was coming on. So their camp reached out to me. So I said, "Great, I would love to talk to her."

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin1:12

       Mm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       But it was very difficult to tie it down and a lot of them wanted to travel. And see, the, the thing is, like, you can't ... If, if I go somewhere then there's gonna be other people in the room, and they want to control a lot of things, I'm sure, according to the Brett Breier interview on Fox-

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin1:31

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       ... like people were waving him off.

   17. KKKonstantin Kisin1:33

       (clears throat)

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       That's a distraction.

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin1:34

       Mm. Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:34

       People in the room ... Like, my whole goal with her and with him is just talk, just s- have a conversation like a human being. You, you find out things about people, you get a sense of them at least, a real sense. That was it. I don't give a fuck what we talk about, I really don't.

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin1:49

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       I just, I just wanna talk to you. Who the fuck are you?

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin1:53

       Do they-

   24. FFFrancis Foster1:53

       (laughs)

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin1:53

       Do you think they think that you're on his side and they're more wary of you?

2. 1:57 – 8:53

   From ‘left vs right’ to tribes: culture shift, free speech, and institutional capture

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:57

      I don't know. I mean, there's, uh ... Just because of my appearance there's always been this assumption that I'm some right-wing MAGA guy. Just, I was a Bernie supporter.

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin2:07

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:07

      You know, I, I am, um, not ... I'm a politically homeless person-

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin2:11

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:11

      ... for sure. You know, I always considered myself a, a left-wing person. I never thought I would ever vote right wing. But then the f- the tides of culture shifted in a very bizarre way, and it just made me, o- over time, much more aware of what this stuff is really all about. 'Cause what this stuff is really all about is just these natural human behavior patterns and these tribal instincts that we have, and it overpowers all discussions. It overpowers what's good for the collective group, it overpowers everything. It's just people pick a fucking team and then whatever that team says, it, they can do no harm, they will do their best to marginalize the horrible effects of the furthest-

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin2:59

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:00

      ... extreme version of that, whether it's ANTIFA or the Proud Boys, they'll minimalize the ... (sighs) It's the same thing, man. It's the same thing. If you look at what's going on with the Liberals right now ... So progressives are, w- they want the war in Ukraine to be funded, they want to censor speech online, and they want to give the World Health Organization, which is deeply influenced by big pharma, including the FDA, deeply influenced, the revolving door between the FDA and pharmaceutical drug companies is legendary. And they wanna give them control over what we take and what we don't take-

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin3:33

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      ... and that's crazy. And that doesn't make sense, 'cause that's not what the Liberals were when I was a kid.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin3:39

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       My parents were hippies, you know, we lived, we lived in San Francisco during the Vietnam War. My parents were, like, straight up hippies. That's how I was raised. And so for me it was always like the Liberals were the ones who wanted education and open-mindedness. The Liberals who were the ones with the ACLU let the Nazis-

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin3:59

       Mm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:59

       ... talk and w- let them have a rally. They said, "You can't infringe on people's free speech, because if you infringe on the speech of people that you disagree with, you're being a fucking hypocrite." You gotta ... The, the only solution to bad speech is better speech. We've always known that.

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin4:14

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:14

       But when they had the power over social media and these collective groups of people that all had the same ideology, and then that tribal mentality kicks in and you lose the perspective that you should have as an education- e- educated person that recognizes that everyone has to be able to talk and we have to figure out who's right, and you might be wrong, you might be wrong, and you might be clinging-

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin4:37

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:37

       ... to this idea that you're right, and you're gonna do the whole thing a terrible disservice.

   18. FFFrancis Foster4:42

       You know, the thing that I loved about the left, Joe, was the anti-establishment left.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:47

       (inhales) Yeah.

   20. FFFrancis Foster4:47

       The left that were like, "You know, we're gonna challenge authority, we're gonna, we're, we're not gonna listen-

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:51

       Yeah.

   22. FFFrancis Foster4:51

       ... to w- you know, what the party's in charge may be saying." You know, the, what I l- used to listen to Bill Hicks when I was a kid-

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin4:58

       Mm-hmm.

   24. FFFrancis Foster4:58

       ... when I was 19 and go, "Oh." You know, that's, to me, was like a totem of the left.

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin5:04

       Mm-hmm.

   26. FFFrancis Foster5:04

       But you just look at, you know, what happened to the left and w- and what I saw b- in my own country and here, and it, and it just seemed like this herd mentality came in. And the moment you stopped, you, you started questioning or pushing back, it was the moment you just found yourself exiled from the group. And it, it just seemed that what I fell in love with at one point in my life no longer existed.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:30

       Yeah, because it's bullshit. And I think we should even stop calling it the left and the right-

   28. FFFrancis Foster5:35

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:35

       ... 'cause it's just tribes.

   30. KKKonstantin Kisin5:36

       Mm.
3. 8:53 – 12:30

   ‘Misinformation’ as power: accountability gaps and the tech-platform information monopoly

   1. KKKonstantin Kisin8:53

      I think the concern about inaccurate information is perfectly valid and a legitimate thing for us to worry about in an ecosystem where information travels so quickly. It's not an illegitimate thing to, to be-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:05

      Absolutely.

   3. KKKonstantin Kisin9:05

      ... concerned about. But you can't have one side lie, call the other side out for its lies, and then go, "Only that is misinformation." What we say, that's, "Oh, oh, yeah, we said it, but we forgot about it, it's fine."

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:18

      This-

   5. KKKonstantin Kisin9:19

      You can't do that.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:19

      Also, this is, this is inherent problem with business being entangled in information. And that's what happened when these tech companies exploded.

   7. KKKonstantin Kisin9:28

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:29

      So, business, an enormous business, not small business, business like Google, and Facebook, and Apple, and these are huge businesses. And all of a sudden, they are in charge of information. Not necessarily Apple, but in a way-

   9. KKKonstantin Kisin9:44

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       ... 'cause they, they have, like banned people from the Apple Store and banned people from ... But it's, they're, they're businesses, an enor- enormous businesses, but they're super left wing.

   11. KKKonstantin Kisin9:54

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:54

       Not just super left wing, but like super woke left wing.

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin9:57

       Mm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:57

       Which is like kind of the craziest version of it, where it just n- there's no room for negotiation. There's n- anybody who disagrees is a fascist. It gets, like real weird. It gets real weird with ideas. So, you have for the first time ever, human beings are capable of, just with a device they carry around with them that has unbelievable amounts of power. That device has ... First of all, you can be on it for, like what? 20 hours now, the new ones?

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin10:25

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:25

       They're, like 20-hour battery life of just you staring at a fucking screen all day. And you're ge- getting connected with an infinite number of ideas that are constantly coming your way.

   17. KKKonstantin Kisin10:37

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:37

       And it's almost all in the hands of left wing.

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin10:42

       Mm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       The left wing party is, uh, Google, it's Facebook, it's all these companies that have massive power. And until Elon stepped in and bought Twitter, there was no counter to that.

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin10:53

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:54

       It was just one side, and that's where things get really weird 'cause businesses like to have monopolies, they like to crush things. And if you have the monopoly of information, you get essentially Microsoft in information form.

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin11:07

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:08

       You know? When they had the antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft, and people worried that it's a monopoly. And there's, uh, people think that about Google now. And there's even conversations about Apple being a monopoly. Businesses love that. They love to kick ass.

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin11:20

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:20

       You know? They love to fucking dominate the business. Your, your goal, if you run a business, you literally have a, uh, you have a obligation to your shareholders that you continually grow the business.

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin11:29

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:30

       There's only one way to do that, kids.

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin11:31

       (laughs) Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:31

       You gotta kick some fucking ass. And, and, if, if you, if you're the biggest thing, and what, what is in your interest? Well, definitely controlling the information.
4. 12:30 – 13:56

   Long-form podcasts as a new political filter—and candidates Rogan wants to see rise

   1. KKKonstantin Kisin12:30

      ... it becomes like that. But I am hopeful. This election, I think there is one thing going on, which I'm actually really hopeful about, which is-

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:37

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KKKonstantin Kisin12:37

      ... w- you know, you had Trump on, on Friday. Like, the conversation is moving from the clickbait, five-second mainstream media, journalist will tell you what to think, to a three-hour conversation, you get to see the real person. If that continues, which it will, and by the time of the next election, this format will be the dominant format, I think, the type of person who is going to be selected for positions of leadership will be a different type of person than the type of person who's selected on 10-second sound bites on mainstream media.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:11

      Well, you certainly have a way better grasp of who they are.

   5. KKKonstantin Kisin13:14

      But w- the, the medium is the message. It will change the type of person that succeeds-

   6. FFFrancis Foster13:20

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:20

      Right.

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin13:20

      ... in that format.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:21

      Right. The Viveks will rise.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin13:22

       Right.

   11. FFFrancis Foster13:23

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       Yeah.

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin13:23

       And, and that gives us a chance, actually, to change the political leadership in Western elites, which is ... it, it's badly needed. And we've been talking about it for God knows how many years now, that the caliber of people coming through is not high enough. Right?

   14. FFFrancis Foster13:37

       Right.

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin13:39

       If this format takes over, that will change. And I don't know, g- it might just be b- a small blip on the road down to oblivion, but it might just be actually the thing that changes the type of leaders we elect.

   16. FFFrancis Foster13:49

       Okay.

   17. KKKonstantin Kisin13:49

       And that's exciting.

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:49

       There's a bunch of people that are out there now that I'm very excited about. One of them is Vivek.

   19. FFFrancis Foster13:54

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:54

       A big one is Tulsi Gabbard.

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin13:55

       Mm.

5. 13:56 – 21:49

   Psychedelics, veterans’ trauma, and the ‘Schedule I’ paradox (plus LD50 rabbit hole)

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:56

      And RFK Jr., of course. Um, I love that guy. I love what he's done his entire career, and I love what he's trying to do with health. I mean, this is a real issue that we all face and we're all being poisoned and-

   2. FFFrancis Foster14:09

      Mm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:09

      ... they're profiting off of it and we're not doing shit about it. Meanwhile, you stop psychedelics from being given to veterans to help them with PTSD. It doesn't make any sense.

   4. FFFrancis Foster14:19

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:19

      This makes zero fucking sense. And s- they have so much control over what you say and do, because if you can decide that something is n- it's unsuitable for the population, like, like the drug schedule program they have in the United States, right? They have schedule one, two, and three-

   6. FFFrancis Foster14:38

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan14:38

      ... depending upon if there's any medicinal use for it. And psychedelics were all on schedule one. That is crazy. If you're telling me there's no medicinal use, you, you could get thousands of people to testify in Congress about soldiers, in particular. I know so many-

   8. FFFrancis Foster14:53

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan14:53

      ... soldiers. No one prepares them for that. They go over there when they're 19 years old and they see people get blown up. They lose their friends. They come back and then they're supposed to just integrate and there's no fucking program that can help you do that. There's ... You're on your own and you've got to sort through what you've seen-

   10. FFFrancis Foster15:12

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       ... that's so different than all these people around you. You have to sort through seeing your friends die. You have to sort through c- having to kill people.

   12. FFFrancis Foster15:20

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       You have to sort through that and just exist. And then there's a tremendous amount of veterans who commit suicide. It's a crazy number. And psychedelics are proven to help that. So the fact that there's s- some sort of an organization that thinks that somehow or another that is bad, that this thing that doesn't kill anybody, literally, like the LD50 rate for psilocybin is something insane. It's like you have to take ... Well, it's like 100 pounds of it or something. I don't know what it is. Like let's find out what's the LD50 rate, which means lethal dose at 50% of the population.

   14. FFFrancis Foster15:53

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:53

       Like w- what kills half the people. It's like you can't do it.

   16. FFFrancis Foster15:56

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:56

       It's not ... That's not what the concern is. Are there concerns about people losing their marbles when they do it? Yeah. Yeah, there is concerns.

   18. FFFrancis Foster16:03

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       It ain't ... It's not a fucking free ride, you know? There's some people that are mentally fragile and they have mental issues already. They shouldn't be doing that. But for everybody else, there should be a conversation where we figure out how to make the world a better place. And one of the ways to make the world a better place is to make people more kind, more compassionate-

   20. FFFrancis Foster16:24

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       ... and more understanding. And that's something that psychedelics provides. And the fact that that is somehow or another listed by a country that is the leader of the free world in the most information-rich time alive. There's so much access to information. We all know what they really are and what they're not, and yet this organization that somehow or another, this shadow organization that controls what we do, tells you you can't have that. If you have it, you go to jail. That's bananas. That doesn't make any sense. And as long as we keep stupid shit like that, people will never have hope that there's going to be s- a better horizon, a better future. They would think that all these things are so ... It takes so long. Just for marijuana. Look, marijuana's still not federally legal-

   22. FFFrancis Foster17:12

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       ... but it's legal in like half the states. It took so long for people ... Where they're drinking whiskey on every fucking corner.

   24. FFFrancis Foster17:19

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:20

       People are just doing shots and drinking tequila, and marijuana's something that gets you locked in a cage. As long as something like that exists that's preposterous and b- completely illogical, the good that it serves is the ruling class gets to rule without logic.

   26. FFFrancis Foster17:36

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:36

       'Cause it ... They don't have to ... It doesn't have to make sense. Fuck you, you're going to jail. (laughs)

   28. FFFrancis Foster17:41

       (laughs)

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin17:41

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:41

       You know? And it's ... As long as they say that, you're like, "Ah!" We raise your taxes, you gotta pay them. Fuck you, you're going to jail. But the fucking Constitution ... Shut up.
6. 21:49 – 28:46

   Trump’s energy in person: charm, retaliation instincts, and the ‘always hit back’ persona

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:49

      They're just constantly embroiled in hate and anger and trying to get people back. And, uh, I think people ... that's the negative thing that people associate with Trump.

   2. JVJamie Vernon21:59

      Hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:59

      The negative thing that people associate with Trump is if, like, you hit him, he's hitting you back harder. Like, he's got this thing, you know? Like, (laughs) he called some lady that, uh ... y- you know, one of the ladies that he allegedly had an affair with, he called her horse face on Twitter while he's a sitting president. That is so crazy. So that bothers people 'cause it's like that kinda energy, you know? We don't like that kinda energy, and I think that's something that people are very apprehensive about for a leader.

   4. KKKonstantin Kisin22:27

      Sure. What was your sense of his energy when he was here?

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:30

      It's ... he's very charming, right? So he's very friendly to me, and, uh, he ... also, we have a very good mutual friend, Dana White.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin22:38

      Mm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:38

      Dana White loves him. He stuck up for Dana when MMA was a- a banned sport, and he let them put on his events in, uh, in Trump, uh, Trump Casino in Atlantic City. And so Dana loves the guy, and they've always had a good friendship, you know? Um, he got mad at me one time because I said that RFK Jr. was the only, uh, guy that makes sense. But I was essentially saying it the same way I'm saying it here.

   8. JVJamie Vernon23:04

      Mm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:04

      It's like with RFK Jr., is he talks about facts and talks about reality and he talks about issues and he talks about, like, studies and what we know about things. He's just brilliant with his recall. And he doesn't attack people, and I think we could all use more of that.

   10. JVJamie Vernon23:19

       Mm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:19

       Even if he's writing something about something, like in that book, The Real Anthony Fauci, it's because it's true, and it's- it's not good information, and it affects all of us. It's not- he's not, like, personally attacking someone. And I think th- that personal attack stuff is what bothers people. And so what did he do? He just attacked me. (laughs)

   12. JVJamie Vernon23:39

       (laughs)

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin23:39

       (laughs)

   14. FFFrancis Foster23:39

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       But he attacked me in the craziest way. He said, uh, "W- I wonder how loud Joe Rogan's gonna get booed at the next time he goes to the UFC." I'm like, "Hey, bro, like, outta all the places."

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin23:49

       That's kinda your home court, right there. (laughs)

   17. FFFrancis Foster23:51

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:51

       Outta all the places where you think I'm gonna get booed. Come on, man.

   19. JVJamie Vernon23:55

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:55

       Those fucking people ... I've been working for that company for 27 years.

   21. FFFrancis Foster23:58

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:58

       Like, whatever it's been. I mean, ni- yeah, when did I start? I started in '97. That was the first time I worked for the UFC. Like, come on.

   23. FFFrancis Foster24:05

       I-

   24. JRJoe Rogan24:05

       That's a crazy thing to say.

   25. JVJamie Vernon24:06

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:06

       Or how about, "I hate Taylor Swift"?

   27. FFFrancis Foster24:08

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:08

       I forgot to ask him about that one. Did he really tweet that? I think he put it on Truth Social when she endorsed Kamala Harris, if you-

   29. JVJamie Vernon24:15

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:15

       ... all capital letters, "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT."
7. 28:46 – 38:01

   The Tony Hinchcliffe rally joke controversy: comedy context, weaponization, and media incentives

   1. FFFrancis Foster28:46

      Yeah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan28:46

      Why did you do that? I tell, I tell all comedians, don't ever do comedy at something that's not a comedy event.

   3. FFFrancis Foster28:51

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan28:52

      Don't do it.

   5. FFFrancis Foster28:53

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan28:53

      Don't ever do comedy at a place that's doing also.

   7. FFFrancis Foster28:56

      Mm-hmm.

   8. KKKonstantin Kisin28:57

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:57

      He's doing... Uh, you know, you're gonna s- Is, is he gonna have a bunch of speakers and you're gonna go up and do 10 minutes? Don't ever do that. It's a terrible setup. It's a terrible setup. And it's a political rally and you're doing jokes like you're in a comedy club. It doesn't... You can't... Eh, eh. Don't do it.

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin29:13

       I don't really blame Tony, though, 'cause Tony is what Tony is, right?

   11. JRJoe Rogan29:16

       Yeah.

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin29:16

       Like, if you want an insult comic, Tony is the best in the world.

   13. FFFrancis Foster29:19

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan29:19

       There's literally... His, his, his great specialty is roasting.

   15. KKKonstantin Kisin29:23

       Right. So-

   16. JRJoe Rogan29:24

       He's the best roaster ever.

   17. FFFrancis Foster29:25

       Yeah.

   18. KKKonstantin Kisin29:25

       ... if you book Tony Hinchcliffe, Tony Hinchcliffe is gonna be Tony Hinchcliffe.

   19. JRJoe Rogan29:29

       Exactly.

   20. KKKonstantin Kisin29:29

       So whoever fucking booked him, that's the person that's, that's made the mistake.

   21. JRJoe Rogan29:33

       Not just booked him, but apparently went over his material.

   22. FFFrancis Foster29:36

       Did they go over his material?

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin29:38

       No. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan29:38

       (laughs)

   25. FFFrancis Foster29:39

       Oh, my...

   26. JRJoe Rogan29:41

       This is what I've read on the internet, so it must be true.

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin29:44

       (laughs)

   28. FFFrancis Foster29:44

       In the words of Donald Trump, someone's getting fired, man.

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin29:47

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan29:47

       I gotta tell you, that joke kills at comedy clubs. I don't like the joke. It kills. And I said to him, I don't... It's just like... If you're Puerto Rican and you hear that in the audience, you're like, "Oh." But it's a funny joke.
8. 38:01 – 42:06

   Immigration rhetoric vs reality: ‘America is for Americans only’ and what a practical message looks like

   1. JRJoe Rogan38:01

      Right. But there were some other things at the rally that people got offended by and one of them, what's that guy's name? Stephen Miller? Was that his name?

   2. KKKonstantin Kisin38:07

      Yeah.

   3. FFFrancis Foster38:07

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan38:07

      He, he, he yelled something like, "America is for Americans." Like, some- something like that.

   5. KKKonstantin Kisin38:14

      Did he?

   6. JRJoe Rogan38:14

      Let's see what he said. See what he said.

   7. KKKonstantin Kisin38:15

      I don't remember that part.

   8. JRJoe Rogan38:16

      That was a weird one, I thought, 'cause I'm like, okay, what's an American? What... They're all immigrants. The... It's a literal country full of immigrants.

   9. KKKonstantin Kisin38:23

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan38:23

       So what... You know, it's not like saying German, Germany is for Germans, right? 'Cause, you know-

   11. FFFrancis Foster38:28

       That has a different vibe to it.

   12. JRJoe Rogan38:30

       (laughing)

   13. KKKonstantin Kisin38:31

       It does, it does. A bad example. I, I should've said like, uh-

   14. FFFrancis Foster38:35

       But they got-

   15. JRJoe Rogan38:35

       Portugal is for Portuguese.

   16. KKKonstantin Kisin38:37

       Right, right.

   17. FFFrancis Foster38:37

       When they got Germany's for the Germans, you're like, "Oh, my..."

   18. JRJoe Rogan38:40

       Yeah, yeah.

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin38:40

       Chill out, chill out.

   20. JRJoe Rogan38:41

       But it's, but it's that same kind of rhetoric to get people like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa."

   21. KKKonstantin Kisin38:45

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan38:45

       "Why you yelling that?"

   23. KKKonstantin Kisin38:47

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan38:47

       Like, "What he's saying?" Like, I really like the way JD Vance talks.

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin38:50

       Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan38:50

       He's not screamy, yelly. He's like very smooth and he's very coordinated. Very good at be-

   27. KKKonstantin Kisin38:57

       He's su- sharp guy.

   28. JRJoe Rogan38:58

       Very good at being... Very intelligent guy, very good at being a politician.

   29. FFFrancis Foster39:01

       Mm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan39:01

       And he does these interviews, which is interesting too, 'cause they'll talk to all these people. They'll talk to CNN, always trying to corner them. They're trying to corner him on stuff. It's interesting what people admit to and what they won't admit to, what they won't talk about. You know, like did you see Jake, Jake Tapper and him got at it?
9. 42:06 – 45:42

   UK hate-speech laws and the criminalization of comedy: Scotland, Canada comparisons, and ‘Best of Enemies’

   1. FFFrancis Foster42:06

      Yeah. Which leads, what we're seeing in the UK, as far as I'm concerned, and I, I, I'm sure Konstant has his own view on this, is we're seeing, for me, the slow creep of, I would say soft authoritarianism, but not even that. You look at Scotland. So Scotland, on April the 1st, ironically enough, brought in hate speech, this Hate Speech Bill they called it. It, it came into law, and that has now criminalized public performance, so, which includes stand-up comedy.

   2. JRJoe Rogan42:33

      Uh, yeah, I've heard that, but the problem is they have that enormous festival there every year.

   3. KKKonstantin Kisin42:37

      Yeah.

   4. FFFrancis Foster42:37

      Yeah, the, yeah, the Edinburgh Comedy Festival.

   5. JRJoe Rogan42:38

      Yeah, Edinburgh is like famous worldwide.

   6. KKKonstantin Kisin42:41

      It's the biggest comedy... It's the biggest arts festival in the world.

   7. JRJoe Rogan42:43

      Yeah, Ari Shaffir has done it like multiple times. He raves about it. He's like, "You have to go, you have to go to Edinburgh."

   8. FFFrancis Foster42:48

      (laughing)

   9. JRJoe Rogan42:48

      Like, "No, I don't. Shut up."

   10. KKKonstantin Kisin42:50

       No, you don't. You don't have to go.

   11. JRJoe Rogan42:51

       But he said it's like you should go there and do American stand-up 'cause th- they're basically like, a lot of them are telling stories and they have a theme every year. But he goes, "It's really cool though. It's a cool like art, art environment." So if they come along and say that all that stuff's hate speech now, you've, you've killed the whole thing.

   12. KKKonstantin Kisin43:07

       Well, Tony would be in be... If he'd done that joke there, he would be in, be, being investigated by the police right now.

   13. JRJoe Rogan43:12

       Well, he'd probably be in jail if he was in Canada, legitimately.

   14. KKKonstantin Kisin43:15

       Not, not exaggerating. This is not an exaggeration.

   15. FFFrancis Foster43:16

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan43:17

       Yeah, yeah. No, I'm sure he would be.

   17. FFFrancis Foster43:18

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan43:19

       Yeah. Yeah, that's danger. That's the whole thing we're talking about. It's like left-wing ideas used to be free speech is important. I mean, that's why if you go back and, like even in, like left-wing magazines, and... Like, remember when Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley had that debate?

   19. KKKonstantin Kisin43:39

       Mm.

   20. FFFrancis Foster43:40

       Mm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan43:41

       That was a- a brilliant moment, right? Because that was kind of like one of the first podcasts.

   22. KKKonstantin Kisin43:45

       Mm.

   23. FFFrancis Foster43:46

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan43:46

       'Cause they played it on... If you haven't seen that, what is the, uh, documentary about? Something Best- Something Enemies. It's a great documentary.

   25. KKKonstantin Kisin43:55

       Mm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan43:56

       But it shows that the network that put it on, I think it was ABC, was getting killed in the ratings.

   27. FFFrancis Foster44:01

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JRJoe Rogan44:02

       And... Otherwise, they would have never done this. And so they just decided to, like, "Let's just take a chance." And it became this enormous success.

   29. KKKonstantin Kisin44:08

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       'Cause everybody was on the Best of Enemies.
10. 45:42 – 51:53

    Cultural time-travel: ‘Brown Sugar,’ Friends, Tropic Thunder—and why comedy is the last rebellion outlet

    1. FFFrancis Foster45:42

       It's, it's so interesting, like, the way that we... You know, things were seeded at one point in culture, and now they've become mainstream. Now, I was, uh... I was at the gym, and then the, the words... Uh, the, the, the song Lola by The Kinks came on.

    2. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       Yeah. Yeah.

    3. FFFrancis Foster45:56

       Yeah.

    4. KKKonstantin Kisin45:56

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       Transgender song.

    6. FFFrancis Foster45:57

       Yeah. "I'm not dumb but I can't understand/ Why she walks like a woman and talks like a man, La Lola."

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       Yeah. (laughs)

    8. FFFrancis Foster46:03

       (singing) La Lola, Lola.

    9. KKKonstantin Kisin46:04

       (singing) La Lola, Lola.

    10. JRJoe Rogan46:05

        Yeah. Yeah. It's a great fucking song.

    11. FFFrancis Foster46:07

        Yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan46:08

        Yeah.

    13. FFFrancis Foster46:08

        And then you listen to it, and you go, "This is really progressive." And then it ends with, um, "I know what she is, she's a man." So... And then I'm like, "Well, you'd get canceled for this bit now."

    14. JRJoe Rogan46:17

        Bro, you know the craziest song? The craziest song is Brown Sugar.

    15. KKKonstantin Kisin46:21

        Oh, yeah.

    16. FFFrancis Foster46:21

        Oh, yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:21

        You know Rolling Stone doesn't even play Brown Sugar anymore? I went to see them in concert, and they- they said they would not pl- play... I mean, they've already said it in interviews. They was like, "It's too controversial a song." And then I saw the lyrics. Like, I had only heard the song. I had never, like, read the lyrics.

    18. FFFrancis Foster46:37

        Yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:37

        And so, you know, when T. Mick Jagger's singing, it's hard to understand-

    20. FFFrancis Foster46:40

        Mm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan46:40

        ... what the fuck he's saying. You know?

    22. FFFrancis Foster46:42

        (laughs)

    23. JRJoe Rogan46:42

        'Cause it's like he's singing. Like, he's making sounds out of the words-

    24. KKKonstantin Kisin46:46

        Mm. Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:46

        That's... Are pleasing.

    26. FFFrancis Foster46:47

        Mm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan46:47

        More than he's communicating, like, really clearly. Pull up the lyrics to Brown Sugar. Wait till you read this. Have you read it?

    28. FFFrancis Foster46:56

        Yeah.

    29. KKKonstantin Kisin46:56

        I- I've... I remember some lines.

    30. FFFrancis Foster46:58

        Mm-hmm.
11. 51:53 – 56:31

    Platform suppression claims: YouTube search issues, mass-reporting, X distribution, and the Streisand effect

    1. JRJoe Rogan51:53

       Well, what's interesting is, uh, something happened, I'm sure it was a mistake, at YouTube where you couldn't search for it.

    2. KKKonstantin Kisin52:00

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan52:01

       I'm sure it was a mistake.

    4. FFFrancis Foster52:02

       It has to be a mistake, Joe.

    5. JRJoe Rogan52:03

       There's no way that was on purpose. And so, if you googled, uh, Rogan Trump-

    6. KKKonstantin Kisin52:07

       They got to Joe. They got to Joe.

    7. FFFrancis Foster52:08

       (laughs)

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:09

       You could only get-

    9. KKKonstantin Kisin52:09

       He's apologizing.

    10. FFFrancis Foster52:09

        (laughs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:10

        You could only get clips. You couldn't watch the whole episode.

    12. KKKonstantin Kisin52:12

        Yeah. Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan52:13

        You couldn't find it.

    14. FFFrancis Foster52:13

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan52:14

        And so we reached out to them a couple of times and they fixed it, to their credit, so now you can find it.

    16. KKKonstantin Kisin52:19

        Oh, good.

    17. JRJoe Rogan52:20

        But so, in the meantime, Elon was furious, and so Elon contacted Daniel Ek at Spotify, and they put it on X as well. So, now it's on X, the full-

    18. FFFrancis Foster52:29

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JRJoe Rogan52:29

        And so it's ... So now it has way more views. 'Cause I think on Elon's alone ... What is it on Elon's alone? 'Cause Elon posted it, and I posted it. This morning, like right ... I posted it last night, I woke up, it was like six and a half million views on mine and eight-plus million on his. So, it's just- it's a r- you can't suppress shit. It doesn't work. This is the internet. This is 2024. People are gonna realize what you're doing.

    20. FFFrancis Foster52:53

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan52:53

        If you try to make it so that something can't come up in a search engine because it's too popular, first of all, if that's not trending, you tell me what the fuck is.

    22. KKKonstantin Kisin53:02

        Whoa.

    23. JRJoe Rogan53:02

        Okay? So, what's it at now? 8.6 million on mine, and what's it on on Elon's?

    24. FFFrancis Foster53:07

        Wow.

    25. JRJoe Rogan53:07

        'Cause he has a lot more people on his than me. So, that's just from last night. S- but you- you can't fucking suppress shit anymore. Like, when you're saying that that's ... Why is that not in the trending? You have a trending thing? What's your trending thing, really, then? If one show has 36 million downloads in two days, like that's not trending?

    26. FFFrancis Foster53:29

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan53:29

        Like, what's trending for you? Mr. Beast?

    28. KKKonstantin Kisin53:31

        (laughs)

    29. JRJoe Rogan53:31

        Like, I know he gets a little more than that, but ...

    30. KKKonstantin Kisin53:33

        12 million for Elon, no?
12. 56:31 – 1:10:51

    DNC primaries, manufactured candidates, voter ID fights, and border policy as class politics

    1. FFFrancis Foster56:31

       So I just don't understand. And this is me being a little bit naive and whatever else, and go, why not, for the Democratic Party, why don't you do this? I know it's gonna blow everyone's mind. Why don't you get the best possible candidate that you can and just go in on Trump?

    2. JRJoe Rogan56:48

       Well, that's, that's-

    3. FFFrancis Foster56:49

       He's got flaws.

    4. JRJoe Rogan56:49

       ... why this election is so dangerous. The reason why this election is so dangerous is we've accepted that someone could be the representative without going through a primary. So because we had to get rid of Joe Biden-

    5. JVJamie Vernon57:02

       Mm-hmm.

    6. JRJoe Rogan57:02

       ... and everybody kind of agreed after the debate, like, "Oh my God, he's literally falling apart," and they decided not to have a primary. And so once they do that, then, then you have the whole machine behind it because there's a desperate attempt to redefine who this person is in front of everybody's eyes. This person that everybody thought, like, uses word salad, and all of a sudden, now they're the number one person. This is the... This is our, our savior. Barack Obama's behind her. Everybody's behind her. Like, it has to happen like that. And that's kind of crazy because they don't have much time and they're kind of manufacturing a thing. So, like, they're gonna try everything. It's like a desperado time. This is part of the problem with right now, because they-

    7. KKKonstantin Kisin57:46

       I would have thought they would have learned that lesson the last election 'cause they tried this shit and it backfired massively. That's why Zuckerberg is now stepping back from it. I don't know if you saw Jeff Bezos' article in The Washington Post.

    8. JRJoe Rogan57:57

       Yes. Yeah, I did.

    9. KKKonstantin Kisin57:58

       It, it feels to me like at least, a- among those guys, the tide is turning, man. They're, they, they don't seem to be keen to interfere in anything like the way that they did before.

    10. FFFrancis Foster58:07

        I think- And also as well, just a final point, it's not like the Dems don't have form for this as well. Look what they did to Bernie in 2016.

    11. JRJoe Rogan58:13

        Right, right.

    12. FFFrancis Foster58:14

        So you've just got, what? Again and again and again you're gonna do it? How are people gonna have faith in your party?

    13. JRJoe Rogan58:21

        Yeah, but people don't look at that. Isn't that wild? They don't look at the idea that they... Bernie was getting too popular, and that was the first experience that I really had with, like, getting attacked by the mainstream news. Like CNN was, uh, saying that Bernie was on my show, that my show is, uh, sexist and racist or whatever the fuck it was. And, you know, that Bernie was doing a terrible thing by coming on my show. And that was when I, I saw. I was like, "Oh, they're trying to get rid of Bernie." Like, this is really interesting. Like, why would they turn... Like, the... You have the most popular podcast in the country. Why wouldn't he want to express his ideas, uh, out to the world? Because they didn't want him, and he was appealing after that kind of a conversation. And you're like, "Oh, so you're just going to take a fraction of a penny off of speculative trades and you'll be able to fund all these things like education and... Really? Can you really do that?" And I was like, "Okay, tell me what you can do." Like, you're, you've been around this fucking rodeo for a long-ass time. Maybe this guy's got a way of looking at things that is, uh... May- maybe it's... Maybe it'll work. And then I saw the machine, and then they got him out of the primaries. I was like, "Whoa, this is kind of crazy." And they're willing to do that. They did it with RFK, right? The- they, they would not let him have a primary. They wouldn't allow him to compete against Joe Biden. No fucking way. They, they had one guy, and that was Joe Biden, until it wasn't. And then when it wasn't, it was like, "Okay. Kamala, you got to be it." And then they just went hard pushing her through, and it worked really good until some of these interviews.

    14. KKKonstantin Kisin59:59

        Right.

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:59

        'Cause that, those interview things are just a super unnatural way to talk. You know, you have live cameras in front of you and all these people, and already she's got to be aware of how many people are hating on her. She has to be aware. She has to be aware of how many people don't think she deserves a spot, she just got in.

    16. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:18

        Joe, can I ask you something? Who's the "they," right? Th- this is the thing I'm genuinely wondering. Who's the "they" that's trying to get Bernie not to run? Who's the "they"?

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

        Well, first of all, it's the DNC, clearly, if you read Donna Rice's book, the DNC clearly-

    18. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:34

        But there's got to be, like, one guy or one gal at the top of that, right?

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

        I don't think so. I think there's an organization. I think, you know, you, you got your Nancy Pelosis and all the people that are in power. And one thing to consider if you're, you're thinking about, like, well, like, why would they want Kamala Harris over anybody else? Because first of all, everybody who works in the administration right now is in the Biden-Harris administration. They'd like to keep those jobs.

    20. FFFrancis Foster1:00:55

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

        "I like to keep this job."

    22. KKKonstantin Kisin1:00:57

        That makes sense, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:58

        "What do I have to do to keep this job?" And those are essentially the people that are running the show because-

    24. FFFrancis Foster1:01:02

        Mm-hmm.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

        ... she's busy and he's not there. So, like, those people want to keep their jobs. So that's what you're experiencing right now.

    26. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:09

        But, man, you know... Sorry, Francis, just to finish something-

    27. JVJamie Vernon1:01:11

        No, it's fine. Yeah.

    28. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:12

        Like, it sounds like a trite and rather obvious thing to say, but you're running to be the leader of the most powerful country in the world.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

        Right.

    30. KKKonstantin Kisin1:01:22

        You got to be able to fucking talk, man.
13. 1:10:51 – 1:27:41

    Border mechanics and unintended consequences: asylum apps, swing states, gangs, trafficking, and missing kids

    1. FFFrancis Foster1:10:51

       Yeah, and it's also as well, look, uh ... My mum's, my mum's Venezuelan, so w- ... And I ov- ... I've got family in this country, I know a lot of Venezuelan people in this country, and then I see what illegal Venezuelans are doing, like El Tren de Aragua-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:11:06

       Yeah.

    3. FFFrancis Foster1:11:06

       ... that gang, and-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:11:06

       I like how you rolled your-

    5. FFFrancis Foster1:11:07

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:11:08

       ... R's and the T's-

    7. FFFrancis Foster1:11:08

       Well, it's j-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:11:08

       ... pretty good.

    9. FFFrancis Foster1:11:09

       (laughs)

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:11:09

        (laughs)

    11. FFFrancis Foster1:11:10

        You know, I'm just sk- ... just trying to, you know-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:11:13

        He goes, "I'm, I'm Latina."

    13. FFFrancis Foster1:11:14

        You know, yeah, in a-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:11:15

        You did a good job. You nailed it. (laughs)

    15. FFFrancis Foster1:11:17

        Yeah. (laughs) I need to do it, otherwise no one believes me, Joe. But, um, you know, uh, I can tell you e- th- this for a fact, every single Venezuelan who came here legally, works hard, went through the hoops to escape Venezuela to create a better life for themselves and their family are utterly mortified and horrified at the actions of those criminals and what is happening in this country s-

Episode duration: 3:29:55