Joe Rogan Experience #2238 - John McPhee

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Good to see you, brother.

John McPhee 0:12 Yeah, how are you, man?

Narrator 0:13 Great, great. It was nice meet you at, uh, F1. And, uh-

John McPhee 0:16 Yeah.

Narrator 0:16 ... I really loved your episode with Sean Ryan. I fucking love that dude.

John McPhee 0:19 Thanks, man. Yeah, Sean is-

Narrator 0:21 He's the man.

John McPhee 0:22 ... he's awesome. I love Sean.

Narrator 0:23 I'm so glad there's guys like him doing this, that there's, there's more people like him that are, like, finding new ways to, like, you know ... Media's, it's so wide open now.

John McPhee 0:35 Yeah.

Narrator 0:35 And it's not, you don't have to get hired by a television station anymore. You could just start your own shit. And Sean's show is fucking great.

John McPhee 0:42 Yeah, he's great. Sean's ... I love him as a person, so.

Narrator 0:44 Yeah, I love him too. He's great. He's an awesome dude. And I loved you on that show, but God damn, man, that show was crazy. Like, your childhood was so nuts, dude.

John McPhee 0:53 Yeah.

Narrator 0:53 Hearing about you living in a brothel when you were 12 years old.

John McPhee 0:56 Yeah, me and my brother. (laughs)

Narrator 0:57 Fuck, dude. Your whole story was so nuts, man. I was listening to it in the sauna this morning, and I was like, "Oh my God." So I'm there cooking at-

John McPhee 1:06 (laughs) Yeah.

Narrator 1:06 ... 195 degrees listening to you struggle.

John McPhee 1:08 Yeah. (laughs)

Narrator 1:09 (laughs) I was in there for half an hour.

John McPhee 1:11 Yeah.

Narrator 1:11 Which, I usually do 20 minutes-

John McPhee 1:12 Yeah.

Narrator 1:12 ... but I kept going. I'm like, his, his life was so fucked up, I feel like I shouldn't bail right now. I should keep listening.

John McPhee 1:18 I f- I feel like, like, um, but I'm not the only one. You know what I mean?

Narrator 1:21 No.

John McPhee 1:21 I f- I feel like where I was in the army is full of guys just like that.

Narrator 1:25 100%

John McPhee 1:26 Yeah.

Narrator 1:26 100%. Yeah, and I think in some ... Well, fighters as well. You know, a lot of fighters that I know, like, uh, Sean Strickland, a l- a lot of guys I know had fucked up childhoods. And I think it gives you an extra gear. I think when you can get through a childhood like that, you got an extra place that you can go to-

John McPhee 1:45 Yeah.

Narrator 1:45 ... that other dudes can't go to. And in your line of work, that comes in very handy.

John McPhee 1:49 Yeah. I, well, I think it works like this, um, I never heard it as an extra gear, but here's the way I always equated it. You know you're gonna get a beating, and it's coming at (laughs) 5:00. (laughs)

Narrator 2:02 (laughs)

John McPhee 2:02 You know, (laughs) you know after dinner, you, (laughs) -

Narrator 2:05 Yeah.

John McPhee 2:05 ... they're gonna be hammered. And this is another argument and fight, and it's a pattern, right? Uh, and you know this as a kid, right? And what happens is, you gotta take that beating and then, like, put your church clothes on, we're going to church.

Narrator 2:17 Ugh.

John McPhee 2:17 You know what I mean?

Narrator 2:18 Yeah.

John McPhee 2:18 And the truth is, is like, um, uh, I think my, my brother more than me, but, uh, I think my mom actually had them convinced that we were super bad kids. And like, you know, we were, I don't know, a couple years ago I was like, you know, like, "You ever met a actual bad, like, four or six or eight year old?"

Narrator 2:36 No. It's how they're raised.

John McPhee 2:37 Right? Right?

Narrator 2:38 It's all in how they're raised.

John McPhee 2:38 And then th- it was kind of like, uh-

Narrator 2:40 Yeah.

John McPhee 2:40 ... I think it was an eye-opener for him, but, like, it was always our fault. So-

Narrator 2:45 Well, that's the thing. You can convince kids of almost anything. You can convince them that it's their fault.

John McPhee 2:50 Yeah.

Narrator 2:50 Y- y- you can convince them that they're bad kids, and then they feel bad for the rest of their fucking life. They feel like a piece of shit.

John McPhee 2:56 Yeah.

Narrator 2:56 There's a lot of people out there that didn't do anything wrong, they were just raised by shitheads, and for their whole life they feel like garbage.

John McPhee 3:01 Yeah.

Narrator 3:02 And they don't know why.

John McPhee 3:03 Yeah, I, I agree.

Narrator 3:03 And it's so hard to snap out of that too, and it, it takes something for you to do that makes you feel valuable and worthwhile. Like, y- y- you have to kind of like relearn who you are as a person.

John McPhee 3:14 Yeah.

Narrator 3:15 And some people never do.

John McPhee 3:16 Yeah.

Narrator 3:16 And then they, you know, find meth, or heroin, or something that takes the edge away-

John McPhee 3:21 Yeah.

Narrator 3:22 ... and they, they can just exist.

John McPhee 3:23 Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, that was the army for me. Like, the first time I ever felt like, like I fit in or I was with people like me-

Narrator 3:33 Right.

John McPhee 3:33 ... was when I was, you know, in Ranger Battalion.

Narrator 3:35 Yeah. I, I think fighting is the same way.

John McPhee 3:37 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 3:37 A lot of those guys, the only time they ever feel normal is when they're in a gym with a bunch of other savages.

John McPhee 3:43 Yeah.

Narrator 3:43 It's like, it's guys who wanna do that for a living, you know, y- generally, something fucking terribly wrong happened when you were young-

John McPhee 3:51 Yeah.

Narrator 3:51 ... that put this anger, this monster inside of you.

John McPhee 3:54 Well, I tell ya, the, I tell people all the time, jujitsu's my sanity.

Narrator 3:58 Yeah. Oh, jujitsu's meditation, man. Because if you are doing jujitsu, you can't be thinking about anything else.

John McPhee 4:06 Right.

Narrator 4:06 So it cleans your mind up. You know, we were talking-

John McPhee 4:09 Yeah.

Narrator 4:09 ... about bow hunting.

John McPhee 4:09 Yeah.

Narrator 4:10 I think that's the same thing. I think in a s-

John McPhee 4:12 Agree.

Narrator 4:12 ... in a different way. It's just, y- when you're doing that, it's so difficult, you can't think about anything else.

John McPhee 4:17 Right. I, I love when I'm ... I don't even care if I get or see an elk today. The places I go to get these elk-

Narrator 4:24 Right.

John McPhee 4:24 ... I could just sit there all day anyway.

Narrator 4:26 I know.

John McPhee 4:27 You know what I mean?

Narrator 4:27 Yeah, it's amazing.

John McPhee 4:27 The fact that, like, one of these majestic beasts is gonna walk 20 yards from me, fucking bonus. You know what I mean?

Narrator 4:34 (laughs)

John McPhee 4:34 Like, I just, you know what I'm saying?

Narrator 4:36 Yeah, yeah.

John McPhee 4:36 Like, and I feel the same about jujitsu, you know? Like-

Narrator 4:38 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 4:39 ... uh, I f- I always, like, in jujitsu, when someone does, like, what you call high-level jujitsu to me as it's happening, like, couldn't ... I don't care if you're smashing my fucking face. That was amazing. Are you kidding me?

Narrator 4:53 (laughs)

John McPhee 4:53 Like, let's take a moment here. You know what I mean?

Narrator 4:56 It's amazing that someone can do that.

John McPhee 4:57 Yeah.

Narrator 4:58 You know, I remember when I was first starting jujitsu, I was, like, 30 years old and I thought I was a badass. I had kickboxed, I had won a bunch of TaeKwonDo tournaments. I thought I knew how to fight. And I remember one day when I was at white belt, this purple belt just raped me.

John McPhee 5:14 (laughs)

Narrator 5:14 I mean, he was my size. This was what drove me crazy. He wasn't bigger than me, and he just destroyed me. Just destroyed, just did whatever he wanted. Triangled me, arm barred me, choked me. And I remember walking out of there going, I can't ... First of all, what a, like, shift of, like, who you are in the world, knowing that someone can just do that to you. Not a bigger guy, like someone your size can just ... You're helpless. And then I remember thinking, I gotta get good at this. Like, that, having that as a skill-

John McPhee 5:45 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 5:45 ... that's like one of the greatest things you could ever have. Like, 'cause that's what martial arts was supposed to be when we were kids, like that the smaller person could beat the larger person just with technique.

John McPhee 5:55 Correct.

Narrator 5:56 ... until Royce Gracie came along, you never really saw that.

John McPhee 5:59 Right.

Narrator 5:59 The bigger guys always won.

John McPhee 6:00 Right.

Narrator 6:00 And then Royce Gracie, all of a sudden, he's killing people from his back and we're like, "What is going on?"

John McPhee 6:05 Yeah.

Narrator 6:06 This is crazy.

John McPhee 6:06 Yeah. He's losing. He's not losing.

Narrator 6:08 All of a sudden, he's like (choking sound)

John McPhee 6:10 Yeah.

Narrator 6:10 some guy-

John McPhee 6:10 Yeah.

Narrator 6:11 He's strangling-

John McPhee 6:11 Yeah.

Narrator 6:11 ... some guy with his legs. We're like-

John McPhee 6:13 Yeah.

Narrator 6:13 ... "What the fuck is this?"

John McPhee 6:14 Yeah, I agree. I agree. I tell you, uh, I met Royce, like, we, you know, in the early days, we'd bring Royce and Rorion was actually the first Gracie I met before Royce, right? But we'd bring Royce in, and, like, watching these guys, like, you know, we'd get, like, 60 guys up on the mat. And this is hard to do. And this is a lot of guys because it's Royce, you know, and he would run through every dude.

Narrator 6:38 Yeah.

John McPhee 6:39 E-ve-ry dude. And it was like, not like, not like it was a close match. It was like whatever dude from the defo stepped in front of him was the 12-year-old child against the fucking, an adult.

Narrator 6:53 Yeah.

John McPhee 6:54 You know what I mean?

Narrator 6:54 Yeah.

John McPhee 6:54 Like he just fucking handled everybody. And I remember one of those times, he just fucking, I did something and he cinched down on me like a spider and I couldn't fucking move.

Narrator 7:04 (laughs)

John McPhee 7:04 And he goes, "Yes, I did not think of this. This is good move." And I was like, "I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing." Like, you-

Narrator 7:10 (laughs)

John McPhee 7:10 You know what I mean? I, I wasn't even a white belt yet. I was just... He was just fucking me up, you know. But I knew, like right then and there, I was fucking helpless.

Narrator 7:18 Yeah. It's a weird-

John McPhee 7:19 And like-

Narrator 7:19 ... feeling.

John McPhee 7:19 And like, yo, unacceptable. You know what I mean?

Narrator 7:23 Unacceptable is the right word. (laughs)

John McPhee 7:23 Yeah, right? Unacceptable.

Narrator 7:25 That's the right word, yeah.

John McPhee 7:26 Uh-

Narrator 7:26 Like you gotta learn this.

John McPhee 7:27 You gotta know some of it. You know what I mean?

Narrator 7:29 Yeah, yeah.

John McPhee 7:29 And, and even back then, like, we would all tell Royce, you know, 'cause we were more Muay Thai, we would train a lot of Muay Thai, boxing, right, wrestling, a lot of wrestling, uh, you know, before the jits, and, like, we would tell Royce back then, "As soon as you learn to punch, you are super dangerous."

Narrator 7:46 Yeah.

John McPhee 7:46 Which is, I think, where it is now.

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Narrator 9:46 Yeah. Well, I think wrestling is kind of th- there's like so many elite wrestlers now that have learned submissions. And that extra skill of being able to throw bodies around is another level.

John McPhee 10:00 I agree.

Narrator 10:01 'Cause wrestlers can learn jujitsu pretty easy.

John McPhee 10:03 Yeah.

Narrator 10:03 An elite wrestler, you take a guy like a Bo Nickal or a Daniel Cormier, teach them jujitsu, they're gonna... Khamzat Chimaev's the best-

John McPhee 10:09 Yeah.

Narrator 10:10 ... example of that.

John McPhee 10:10 Yeah.

Narrator 10:10 You get a, you teach a guy like that submissions, he already knows how to ragdoll people. So he has this ability to take everybody down, and then on top of that, he's gonna break your neck. Like, he, it's like that extra sk- I think wrestling is like the foundation.

John McPhee 10:24 Yeah.

Narrator 10:25 That's the one thing 'Cause then you can dictate whether the fight goes to the ground or stays up, you know?

John McPhee 10:30 Yes.

Narrator 10:30 And then once you learn submissions, which is pretty easy for a wrestler to learn-

John McPhee 10:35 Yeah.

Narrator 10:35 ... it's pretty similar.

John McPhee 10:36 It's the same sport.

Narrator 10:37 Yeah.

John McPhee 10:37 I used to wrestle and it's like the cradle for the pin-

Narrator 10:40 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 10:40 ... versus an arm bar, right?

Narrator 10:42 Sure.

John McPhee 10:42 In my opinion.

Narrator 10:42 Darce chokes.

John McPhee 10:43 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 10:43 All these different things come from similar positions. But then standup. You know, you have to have standup today because every-

John McPhee 10:49 Have to.

Narrator 10:50 ... I think, you know, I've been talking about this a lot. I don't think... I think whe- when you have a fight and it's five rounds, let's say you have a fight, if a guy's mounted on top of a guy at the end of the first round, I think the second round should start with that guy mounted on top-

John McPhee 11:04 Yeah.

Narrator 11:05 ... of you. I don't think they should start standing up 'cause it doesn't make any sense. Like you didn't earn that standup.

John McPhee 11:09 Yeah.

Narrator 11:09 That guy took you down, he got on top of you, he's mounted on you, you're about to get fucked up, and then all of a sudden you have a reprieve from the governor-

John McPhee 11:17 Yeah. Reset.

Narrator 11:17 ... 'cause the round is over-

John McPhee 11:18 Yeah.

Narrator 11:18 ... and now you're standing up again. And if you're a striker, that's your world, but you didn't earn that position.

John McPhee 11:23 Right.

Narrator 11:24 It's one fight. It's not five fights. It's one fight.

John McPhee 11:27 Right.

Narrator 11:27 So why should you have a beginning of every round where you're standing up?

John McPhee 11:31 Yeah, I agree. I agree with that.

Narrator 11:32 If I could change the rules, that's the first rule that I would change. I would say y- whatever position you are in at the end of the round, that's where you start.

John McPhee 11:39 I completely agree with that. And I always feel like that it just fucks shit up.

Narrator 11:44 Yeah.

John McPhee 11:44 You know what I mean? And then, you know this doing jujitsu is like seconds matter.

Narrator 11:49 Oh, yeah.

John McPhee 11:49 And this fight could turn around in seconds, but those seconds can't happen if we stop this early.

Narrator 11:55 100%. Yeah.

John McPhee 11:56 Yeah, I agree with that.

Narrator 11:57 Well, the early days were wild, right, because there was no time limit.

John McPhee 12:00 That, hey, that's when I watched. The early days is my heyday. Like I could not get enough. I was f- you know, a fight dummy (laughs) for Royce for, uh...... Sakuraba, uh, who else? Oh, Hoist, so- okay, I'll tell you a quick story about Hoist. He, uh, he comes out, we're doing jits with him and, uh, h- I'm a new guy, so I'm like, "Hey, you could share my wall locker, right?" And you got a wall locker, and you got, like, your towel 'cause the shower's down the hallway. You know what I mean?

Narrator 12:28 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 12:28 Like, uh, I have my clothes, right, and then- so Hoist put his family pictures- and I didn't notice this, but they slowly did this, him and my team, re-tagged everything with, like, my last name and team numbers with Hoist, right? So they re-tagged all my gear as Hoist, right? They, uh- Hoist put his kids' pictures up over mine, right? And one day I'm in the- I'm in my locker like, "Is this my locker?"

Narrator 12:54 (laughs)

John McPhee 12:54 Like, "What the fuck? What the fuck is going on?" And I'm like, "Whose kids are these?" Like, th- and then, uh, Hoist is like, you know, "Yes, you like my kids?" And I'm like, "Oh, those are your kids?" Like, "No, that's cool," right?

Narrator 13:06 (laughs)

John McPhee 13:06 Like, years later I'm in Iraq and I'm like, "I gotta go for, like, one of these surges into Fallujah with another squadron," and, like, their OPSR major calling me by name, and it's like, "I've been in Iraq, like, 30 seconds. These guys are calling me by name. Like, what the fuck?" You know? And then he was like, "We're getting your stuff. Uh, it's on, uh, it's on the helicopter. You need to get on this little bird. We're leaving in, like, 20 minutes," and literally I got on the little bird. They bring my kit over. I get my shit on, right, and they're like, "Yo, whose shit is- hey, Royce? Is there a Royce? Royce?"

Narrator 13:40 (laughs)

John McPhee 13:40 You know what I mean? And then, like, my bag is- was one- it's fucking still tagged with Hoist's name on it.

Narrator 13:45 That's hilarious.

John McPhee 13:45 Like, years later, yeah.

Narrator 13:46 That's hilarious.

John McPhee 13:48 Yeah.

Narrator 13:48 So you started training martial arts in- when you were in the military?

John McPhee 13:53 In the unit, yeah.

Narrator 13:53 In the unit.

John McPhee 13:54 Yeah.

Narrator 13:54 So did they have- like, was it, like, technical training? Did they-

John McPhee 13:59 Yeah.

Narrator 13:59 ... teach you- did you- did they have, like, real instructors or was-

John McPhee 14:03 Yeah.

Narrator 14:03 How does it work?

John McPhee 14:03 Yeah, so, uh, in training when you kind of make it to the unit, there's a hand-to-hand program. A lot of the hand-to-hand program is, like, traditionally, like, you gotta cuff people. You know what I mean?

Narrator 14:14 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 14:15 Like, which is all Japanese wrist locks, which is a foundation for a lot of shit, right? But, uh, you know, you learn that stuff, like, how- if you have a weapon, how to, like, approach somebody. If they grab your weapon, what to do. So it was all, like, uh, weapon focused, like, more like self-defense. But I think back then in my day, right, in the '90s, it was still, "Bro, come at me like this." You know what I mean?

Narrator 14:39 (laughs)

John McPhee 14:39 And you're like, "Why the fuck would I stand like this, ever? Like, what the fuck was I doing that got me here?" You know what I mean?

Narrator 14:45 Right.

John McPhee 14:45 Like, so it was always some- back then there was a lot of hocus pocus.

Narrator 14:50 Ah.

John McPhee 14:50 So we kind of had our own training program, and then as my years, the training program got better because we started getting hoist. We started ground fighting, you know? I think the- the premise for everything they taught in my day when I was a student was, like, uh, you know, weapons retention, Japanese wrist lock to get someone cuffed, you know, two-man cuffing procedures, searching, and then, like, how to defend yourself if someone grabbed your weapon or if you went to the ground, right? But-

Narrator 15:20 Right. Which is all stuff you have to know.

John McPhee 15:21 Right.

Narrator 15:22 But there wasn't a lot of, like, just-

John McPhee 15:24 No.

Narrator 15:24 ... one-on-one.

John McPhee 15:25 No. No. It's like, you know, you're in the- (laughs) you're in the gym, they roll out the wrestling mat, and it's like, "Okay, come at the guy, like, with your rifle, ah."

Narrator 15:35 Ah.

John McPhee 15:35 You know- you know, a bunch of fucking white belts basically, like, out there fucking around basically.

Narrator 15:39 W- did- does it- wasn't, like, uh, there- was there a system, like, a training system?

John McPhee 15:44 Yeah.

Narrator 15:44 Was there like a- a-

John McPhee 15:44 Yeah. There was a- there was a system back then, and the system was really, um, I c- I think kind of four things without, uh, really knowing what they did back then. I went through the training, but I don't really know what the hand-to-hand was back then until later when I was, like, in the hand-to-hand program or fighting with guys, you know what I mean?

Narrator 16:05 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 16:05 But, um, I would say this. Back then, I'd say it was wrestling, it was, uh, Muay Thai, right? It was, uh, a little bit of Japanese wrist locks and some, uh, Filipino martial arts.

Narrator 16:19 Oh, like Kali, escrima.

John McPhee 16:20 Kali, yeah. We had guys that would do the sticks. I know a little bit of the sticks.

Narrator 16:24 Ah.

John McPhee 16:24 You know, like first time I got smacked 37 fucking times around the head with another- (laughs)

Narrator 16:29 (laughs)

John McPhee 16:29 ... another guy with his sticks. It was like, "What the fuck was that?" Like, "How do these sticks move so fucking fast?" You know?

Narrator 16:35 Yeah, dudes who are good with that are very impressive.

John McPhee 16:37 Yeah, super impressive. So I think that was really the foundation, like- and, you know, maybe, like, some- I don't know, like, dirty boxing I would kind of imagine. You know what I mean?

Narrator 16:47 Like clinching and punching-

John McPhee 16:48 Yeah.

Narrator 16:48 ... the clinch.

John McPhee 16:48 Clinching, punching, stuff like that.

Narrator 16:51 D- how did the Filipinos develop that stick fighting? Like, where'd that come from?

John McPhee 16:54 I don't know, man. Like-

Narrator 16:55 Isn't it weird, weird that, like, one culture's known for their stick fighting?

John McPhee 16:58 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 16:59 Kinda odd, right?

John McPhee 17:00 Yeah. But hey, I love all that, uh, that- the stick fighting. What do they call it? Panutukan or whatever, the dirty boxing they do, like, all very make your opponent off balance at the same time you can strike.

Narrator 17:14 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 17:15 Or if they are trying to strike you, knock them off balance. Stuff like that.

Narrator 17:19 I'm just- I've always been so fascinated how different cultures have a completely-

John McPhee 17:23 Yeah.

Narrator 17:23 ... different approach to fighting. Like, the Thais figured out the best way to fight stand up.

John McPhee 17:29 Yeah.

Narrator 17:30 Kick the shit out of the legs.

John McPhee 17:31 Yeah, fucking kick his legs.

Narrator 17:32 Elbow the fuck out of people in the clinch or-

John McPhee 17:34 Yeah.

Narrator 17:34 ... plong, knees.

John McPhee 17:35 Yeah, the clinch.

Narrator 17:36 Knees to the body, knees to the face. They figured out striking in a way that nobody else had.

John McPhee 17:41 Right.

Narrator 17:41 It's weird that they did it.

John McPhee 17:43 Yeah.

Narrator 17:43 And I think it's just because of the competition all the time and the betting.

John McPhee 17:46 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 17:47 Because, like, they were fighting so often and they had so much money on the line for fighting that they developed a very pragmatic way of fight- 'cause they were fighting all the time.

John McPhee 17:57 Yeah.

Narrator 17:58 As opposed to, like, karate or any of these-

John McPhee 18:00 Right.

Narrator 18:00 ... other things. I don't think they were really fighting as much.

John McPhee 18:02 Well, we don't- I mean, think about America, like, prior to Mike Tyson, boxing was kind of like Americans... If they would have seen, like, Rickson Gracie. You know, if Rickson Gracie would have been popular in, like, the '70s or '60s, people would have been like...... well, that's not civilized fighting. You know what I mean?

Narrator 18:21 (laughs) Right, right.

John McPhee 18:21 Like, get your dukes up, this has gotta be fair.

Narrator 18:23 Right.

John McPhee 18:23 You know what I mean? Americans have a, a very fair sense of what fighting should be like. Americans hate, like, dirty fighting, and-

Narrator 18:31 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 18:31 But, you know, all the, all the Muay Thai and, and the Kali and all that, they, that was all seen... You know, those guys would come from Asia, fight around the States here, fucking kick everyone's ass, and people still weren't attracted to it. It's kinda weird.

Narrator 18:45 Did you ever see... There's one fight that's like one of the most important fights in kickboxing where Rick Rufus, who is like the king of American style kickboxing, like above-the-waist kickboxing, fought this Thai guy. I forget how to... I can't pronounce the guy's name correctly, so I don't wanna butcher it, but this... And Rick Rufus was fucking him up in the beginning. He dropped him, he had him in real trouble. Rick Rufus was really good. But this dude just kept chopping at the legs, chopping at the legs.

John McPhee 19:10 Fuck.

Narrator 19:10 And by the end of the fight, Rick's in a heap on the ground. And his own brother, Duke Rufus, who became a world Muay Thai champion himself later, and became one of the best trainers in MMA. This is, so this is the fight. What happened?

19:22 Oh, I'll show you the name.

19:23 Oh, that's how, his name?

John McPhee 19:24 Oh.

Narrator 19:25 Oh, good luck saying that one.

John McPhee 19:27 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Narrator 19:29 But... Oh, this is not, this is a different... This is like a compilation of a bunch of different-

John McPhee 19:34 Yeah.

Narrator 19:34 ... people fighting. That's not...

19:37 No, uh, that was it.

19:37 This is it, the fight that changed, uh, kickboxing. So this, this fight... Well, this isn't it, this is a bunch of other shit. Go, go into the fight itself.

John McPhee 19:46 That's fucking Chuck-

Narrator 19:47 No, just go, just forward it.

John McPhee 19:48 Chuck Norris?

Narrator 19:49 I know.

John McPhee 19:49 I've seen Chuck in there.

Narrator 19:50 Chuck was legit.

John McPhee 19:51 Chuck was legit.

Narrator 19:52 So this is the fight. So in the beginning, Rick Rufus, who's like this above-the-weight kicker, see, he drops him with a left hand. Rick was really fucking good, man. He was really good, but they just didn't know anything about the leg kicks. And after the fight, like, his brother Duke was like, "Well, I don't think there's any skill involved in kicking the legs." And he was saying that, look, he drops him again. So he dropped him two times. Looked like Rick is fucking him up, but this Thai guy just ki... He's probably had 200 fights.

John McPhee 20:16 Yeah.

Narrator 20:17 And he just keeps kicking at the legs. And after a while, Rick's legs are just dead. I mean, the Thai guy's getting lit up. But Rick became, uh, an unbelievable leg kicker himself after this.

John McPhee 20:30 Yeah.

Narrator 20:30 But no one knew. They just, they just didn't know. So as the fight goes on, and this is like a huge, like, challenge match. You see, look, he drops him with this leg kick. After a while, Rick just can't move anymore.

John McPhee 20:44 Yeah.

Narrator 20:44 And this dude, I don't want to-

John McPhee 20:45 He ain't even running away well.

Narrator 20:47 No, he's, his legs are dead right now.

John McPhee 20:49 Yeah.

Narrator 20:49 And he's just getting-

John McPhee 20:50 Yeah.

Narrator 20:50 Every time this Thai's kicking him, he can barely walk. And then at the end of the fight, he winds up in a heap, because he just doesn't know.

John McPhee 20:57 Yeah.

Narrator 20:57 You know, he doesn't know yet. And he's getting dumped too. Like, look at these fucking low kicks.

John McPhee 21:02 Ah. Yeah.

Narrator 21:02 Devastating low kicks. And at the end of the fight, he's just, uh, in a heap on the ground.

John McPhee 21:08 Yeah. His kick had no power there.

Narrator 21:10 But the thing is like, Rick was really fucking good-

John McPhee 21:13 Yeah.

Narrator 21:13 ... back in the day. So when you w... That, that didn't show the end of the fight, but at the end of the fight, he just, he brutalized him with just low kicks. The Thais had figured something out that nobody-

John McPhee 21:22 Yeah.

Narrator 21:22 ... had figured out, and it's kind of shocking that this one area of the world, like this one small island-

John McPhee 21:29 Yeah.

Narrator 21:29 ... that they figured it out.

John McPhee 21:30 Yeah.

Narrator 21:30 Kind of crazy.

John McPhee 21:31 I love it.

Narrator 21:32 Yeah. I, I love it too. It's just... And then Brazilian jiu-jitsu, right?

John McPhee 21:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 21:36 Until, you know, Maeda comes to Brazil in like the 1930s or some shit.

John McPhee 21:41 Whenever that was.

Narrator 21:42 Whenever that was. And then they go... The Brazilians are like, "Huh, I think we can fix this."

John McPhee 21:47 Yeah.

Narrator 21:47 And then they start like... You know, because Helio was a small guy, and Helio was like going, "Well, what about if we just did it this way?"

John McPhee 21:53 Yeah.

Narrator 21:53 "We fought with leverage, and just instead of using strength, we used technique," and changed everything.

John McPhee 21:59 Yeah.

Narrator 21:59 Changed martial arts forever.

John McPhee 22:01 Yeah. I love it.

Narrator 22:02 It's wild.

John McPhee 22:02 I love all of it.

Narrator 22:03 It's wild.

John McPhee 22:03 Yeah. I'll tell you, that leg kick is my go-to in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know what I mean? Like, I get about this far from you. This is good distance for me. You can't grab my weapons, but-

Narrator 22:14 Right.

John McPhee 22:15 ... what I would do is I'd throw the Thai leg kick, but I wouldn't aim for the middle of the thigh. I don't care about your pain. I'd hit your knee, and either it's gonna break your knee or it's gonna knock you out of your little fucking slippers.

Narrator 22:27 (laughs)

John McPhee 22:29 And then I just stand on your neck.

Narrator 22:31 Yeah. It's, it's one of the most effective things you could do. You take away-

John McPhee 22:35 Yeah.

Narrator 22:35 ... someone's base.

John McPhee 22:36 Yeah.

Narrator 22:36 And, you know-

John McPhee 22:36 Yeah.

Narrator 22:37 ... that's the crazy thing about MMA is now we're learning that kicking in the calf is actually even more effective than kicking in the thigh.

John McPhee 22:44 Fuck, yeah.

Narrator 22:44 Because there's no meat there.

John McPhee 22:46 Yeah, it fucking hurts.

Narrator 22:47 And you slam a shin into that, and then all of a sudden your foot goes floppy.

John McPhee 22:50 Fuck, yeah.

Narrator 22:50 It doesn't work anymore, your leg's useless. It's crazy. And we've figured that out over the last five or six years, which is really nuts. Like Michael Bisping, who was a world champion, told me he went his whole career without ever getting kicked in the calf.

John McPhee 23:03 Wow.

Narrator 23:04 And that was like, you know, four, four or five years ago, he was a world champion.

John McPhee 23:09 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 23:09 And went his entire career without getting kicked in the calf. Nuts. It's nuts. It's like it's constantly changing and evolving.

John McPhee 23:15 Yeah.

Narrator 23:16 Like people find something that works and they're like, "Oh, what about this?"

John McPhee 23:19 I love that it's always evolving too.

Narrator 23:21 Well, martial arts have evolved more in the last 30 years than they have in the last 30,000 years.

John McPhee 23:26 I agree.

Narrator 23:26 That's, that's a fact.

John McPhee 23:27 Yeah.

Narrator 23:28 That's a fact.

John McPhee 23:29 Yeah.

Narrator 23:29 And that's kind of shocking. You think about how long people have been fighting.

John McPhee 23:33 I don't know. You know, I see this... You know, I shoot every day, I teach people to shoot all over the country all the time, right? And it, it's kind of interesting to me that, um, I don't think it works like that. You know what I mean? Like you would, you would think people would have been doing this right the whole time, but there's like a lot of myth involved, and, and it gets watered down over time, I think a lot of times.

Narrator 23:58 Even in shooting?

John McPhee 23:58 Even in shooting, yeah.

Narrator 23:59 Like what are the myths in shooting?

John McPhee 24:01 Oh, so fucking many, man.

Narrator 24:03 Really?

John McPhee 24:03 Like, do we got the time? I just-

Narrator 24:04 We got time.

John McPhee 24:05 I'll fucking shred that shit. The NRA...

Narrator 24:07 Let's shred.

John McPhee 24:07 I go to all... I speak at the NRA shows. Like, the NRA hires me, I speak at all, uh, the NRA show this year. I actually got roofied in fucking Dallas-

Narrator 24:16 What?

John McPhee 24:16 ... at the NRA show. Yeah, no shit.

Narrator 24:18 Do you know who did it?

John McPhee 24:19 Uh, so...... is fucking- this is crazy, right? But, uh, okay, I have an assistant, right? Um, I don't know, she's like 30, blonde girl, pretty girl. Her and her husband are, are with me and I'm with, like, this Surefire representative. Like, "Yo, sorry we got you roofied, by the way." Uh, and then, like, some other guys, right? And we get done with the show and we just go have a drink or two, and we're going into, like, the hotel restaurant to eat a nice steak dinner. You know what I mean? So we get a round of drinks and it was, uh, like, well old-fashioned, is what it was. Well old-fashioned. And my assistant's like- I was sitting next to her, she's like, "I just can't drink anymore." You know what I mean? Like, "These are horrible old-fashioned. I just can't- I just can't drink these anymore." And I was like, "Hey, we'll be at dinner in a minute. They got good booze at the good restaurant. We'll get anything you want," right? So she's like, "Okay." So I was like, "Here, I'll take it." So I held my cup up, and then I kinda held my cup up, the Surefire guy, her husband, and she kind of fills us all up equally. And so...

Narrator 25:24 So somebody was trying to roofie her?

John McPhee 25:25 Her, right? So, yeah. This is in Dallas, right? So, okay. So we go to dinner. I don't know, I get this Wagyu burger, it's fucking delicious. I'm kinda buzzed. I'm drinking good whiskey, you know what I mean? We're having a good time, right? I love good food, right? So, uh, I'm having a great time. Her husband's at the end of the table and all of a sudden, and now this is, like, within 45 minutes of that drink, which I also didn't know, right? So, uh, his head hits the table, bump, and I look at him and I'm like, like, like, "Is he okay?" And then, like, uh, hey, you know how, like, uh, you know them blow up pools where you pull down the side and the water just kinda-

Narrator 26:08 Yeah.

John McPhee 26:08 ... glides over the top? Yo, his mouth opens and it was just like, whoa, across the table.

Narrator 26:15 (laughs)

John McPhee 26:15 You know what I mean? And I was like, I pushed away from the table, like, so it didn't leak on me and I was like, "We gotta go." You know what I mean? "It's time to leave." You know what I mean? "I'll get the check by the front door or something." You know what I mean? But it's-

Narrator 26:27 Right.

John McPhee 26:27 We'd definitely, it's time for us, like...

Narrator 26:28 And you weren't feeling it yet?

John McPhee 26:29 No. I wasn't f- I didn't, I didn't feel anything yet, right? So, okay. So it was like, I never seen this happen to this guy, ever, right? So he, this isn't him, like, so it's kinda weird, right? So my assistant's like, "Hey, I'll take him up to the room." I was like, "Okay, well, we're gonna go have a few more drinks at the bar, right?" So me and the other guy go to the bar. She goes up to her room, right? I don't know any of this is happening, but as soon as they get to the room, the head of security's knocking on the door. So my assistant answers and then I guess the guy was like, "Is, is there a guy that threw up in the restaurant here?" And she's like, "He's in the bathtub naked right now," like, and then the head of security, like, "Hey, we watched the tapes." Ton of info comes out. Right? So, so-

Narrator 27:14 I don't know who did it?

John McPhee 27:16 I think so. But, like, uh, and then-

Narrator 27:18 Did it tell you?

John McPhee 27:19 No. No, no. They, they talked to my assistant and then her husband, right? Like, so, uh, I go down to the bar, right? I put my credit card on the bar and, like, I fucking partied till all hours of the night, yo. What did I learn? If you roofie me, like, you're gonna wait six hours to get that booty, 'cause once you give me drugs, I wanna party, baby.

Narrator 27:40 (laughs)

John McPhee 27:40 You know what I mean? Like... So I'm out, like, I don't know what the fuck that, the Surefire guy fucking petered out on me and I'm probably just in the lobby alone, like, uhnth, uhnth, uhnth fucked up. I don't know what the fuck-

Narrator 27:51 Do you know what was in it?

John McPhee 27:53 Fuck no.

Narrator 27:54 So it was just something? It wasn't-

John McPhee 27:56 (coughs)

Narrator 27:56 ... it wasn't necessarily roofie, Roofenol.

John McPhee 27:58 Yeah. I-

Narrator 27:58 It was probably something...

John McPhee 27:59 I don't know what it was.

Narrator 28:00 Yeah.

John McPhee 28:01 Uh, so, uh, the next day we check out, right? Show's over, we check out. So, uh, my assistant's knocking on my door, right? And I'm a get-up-early guy, I do my cardio, you know. So I'm normally up early and she's knocking on my door, right? So I answer my door and I'm, like, thinking, "The fuck is she doing here so early," right? Both of them, her and her husband. And she's like, "You know, I'm glad you're okay." And I'm like, "Uh, what?" You know what I mean? And she's like, "What? What?" And she looks, she's looking at me, she's like, "Not you too?" And I'm like, "Me too what?" (laughs) You know what I mean? I'm kinda foggy, right? Uh, it was, like, fucking w- it was checkout, it was after checkout time. I slept till, like, fucking 1:00 in the afternoon the next day. I had the worst fucking hangover ever. Like, if that what roofies do, the hangover, I understand why people don't do them recreationally.

Narrator 28:54 (laughs)

John McPhee 28:54 You know what I mean? (laughs) Like, I had the worst fucking hangover. So she's like, "Let's-"

Narrator 28:59 Did anybody get tested to find out what it is?

John McPhee 29:01 Mm-mm. No, they had to fly home that afternoon. They got me in my Sprinter van. I had to go do a class, like, somewhere else. I was on the fucking road. So, like, she got me, they drove me to breakfast, got me something to eat, kinda sobered me up a little bit, right? And then, um, they went to the airport, dropped me off and I drove somewhere else in Texas. I was working here. Um, and then, uh, you know, the, the head of security talked to her and her husband, called them a couple of days later, check on them, make sure they were okay. But long story short is, we had a round of drinks that none of us ordered come to our table.

Narrator 29:37 Ah.

John McPhee 29:37 And they came to our table from the same waitress that we had. You know what I mean? So somehow, we got a round of drinks, and we even paid for them. And when I got the bill, like, I don't know, we had two drinks and we were getting ready to go, and then, uh, a third one came and I just figured, well, someone, one of these, someone ordered it. You know what I mean? It'll be fine.

Narrator 29:56 Right.

John McPhee 29:56 And then I just paid for it all. Didn't, not even think of it.

Narrator 29:59 And so did the security know who roofied you?

John McPhee 30:01 Uh, I think so. I think so.

Narrator 30:03 And they didn't tell you?

John McPhee 30:04 Uh, I think they told my assistant. I think they-

Narrator 30:06 And you didn't ask her?

John McPhee 30:07 No.

Narrator 30:08 Really?

John McPhee 30:08 I didn't care. Yeah.

Narrator 30:09 Oh, I'd wanna know.

John McPhee 30:10 I think it was, like, a targeted thing, where they just fucking rob ya.

Narrator 30:14 Oh.

John McPhee 30:15 You know what I'm saying? And I, like-

Narrator 30:16 Oh.

John McPhee 30:16 ... I don't think, I mean, all right, first and foremost, I think everyone's trying to burgle booty holes this day and age, and you gotta keep your safe. So there's that, right? But, uh, I also think, like, uh, I think it was, like, he-... they know all these people are in for these conventions, so they try to drug somebody and just-

Narrator 30:35 Just rob them.

John McPhee 30:35 ... (laughs) just fucking... He coulda just took my... (laughs) I'd have handed you my wallet. I'd have been like-

Narrator 30:38 (laughs)

John McPhee 30:39 ... "You know what I mean? Fuck it." It wouldn't have-

Narrator 30:40 Yeah.

John McPhee 30:40 It's not a crime. You hand it to-

Narrator 30:42 It happened to a buddy of mine recently.

John McPhee 30:43 Oh, yeah?

Narrator 30:43 Yeah. He met this girl and they go back to his place. And then he wakes up the next day and he's robbed.

John McPhee 30:49 Ugh.

Narrator 30:49 Stole his Rolex, stole $25,000 in cash-

John McPhee 30:52 Ugh.

Narrator 30:52 ... from him, but he got tested and he had, um... I think it was Xanax. She piled a bunch of Xanax into his drink and he was just out.

John McPhee 31:01 Does-

Narrator 31:01 Didn't know what the fuck happened.

John McPhee 31:03 Fuck.

Narrator 31:03 Came to the club afterwards. He was like all fucked up. Came to the comedy club. He's a comedian. Hans Kim. Shout-out to Hans.

John McPhee 31:10 (laughs)

Narrator 31:10 Hilarious guy. So he's like, "Something happened. I don't know what happened." We were like, "Hey, man. Go to fucking... Go get tested right now while it's still in your system." So he goes and gets his hair tested and they, they found that there was roofies in him.

John McPhee 31:23 Damn.

Narrator 31:24 But it was Xanax.

John McPhee 31:24 Well, I didn't even know you could be tested.

Narrator 31:26 Yeah, you can be tested. Yeah.

John McPhee 31:27 Oh, shit.

Narrator 31:28 But you... There's like a time period. They... If you test hair-

John McPhee 31:31 Yeah.

Narrator 31:31 ... it'll like last a little longer.

John McPhee 31:33 Yeah.

Narrator 31:33 And I think he laid... Waited a day, so they had to test hair. But within a certain time period, they can test you and find out-

John McPhee 31:38 Wow.

Narrator 31:38 ... what it is. And they said, "Did you take any Xanax?" He's like, "No." They're like, "You have a lot of Xanax in your system." And apparently that's one of the things that they give people to rob them.

John McPhee 31:46 Dang.

Narrator 31:47 'Cause-

John McPhee 31:47 Does it cause a hangover?

Narrator 31:48 I'm sure.

John McPhee 31:49 Fuck.

Narrator 31:49 It's got to. I mean-

John McPhee 31:50 Fuck, if you're gonna drug me, I-

Narrator 31:51 Anything that's gonna whack you out is gonna cause-

John McPhee 31:52 Yo, drug me... Yo, if you're gonna rob me... Like, I just wanna say this to the world. If you're gonna fucking rob me, like give me the non-hangover shit.

Narrator 31:59 What is-

John McPhee 31:59 You're getting my shit anyway. I don't-

Narrator 32:00 But what is the non-hangover shit?

John McPhee 32:02 Fuck, I don't know. Whatever that shit is.

Narrator 32:03 I don't think-

John McPhee 32:04 You know more about drugs than me.

Narrator 32:05 I don't think it exists.

John McPhee 32:05 I was in the army my whole life, man.

Narrator 32:06 I don't think it exists.

John McPhee 32:07 Damn it, Joe.

Narrator 32:08 I think it's prescription stuff or GHB. I know a lot of people give people GHB.

John McPhee 32:12 I've heard of that.

Narrator 32:13 And that just gets you like... You don't know what the fuck's going on.

John McPhee 32:15 I've heard of that.

Narrator 32:16 I've heard of people getting roofied that way. If I was a woman, I'd be fucking terrified to accept a drink from anybody.

John McPhee 32:21 Fuck.

Narrator 32:22 Dudes are all... I've talked to so many ladies that have had their, their alcohol drugged by someone. When we go to bars, they keep their fucking hand over their drink all the time, even when they're turning around and looking away-

John McPhee 32:32 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 32:32 ... 'cause they just never know. Some guy just dropped something in there real quick.

John McPhee 32:35 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 32:35 Next thing you know, you're going home with 'em. You don't even know where you are.

John McPhee 32:38 I had a buddy, uh... He doesn't even drink. Like, someone convinced him to have like a gr- a glass of wine in a small town in North Carolina. And like, the cops pulled him over, like n- you know, not far down the road. And he was like, "I don't know what's going on, but I can't feel my hands." You know what I mean? (laughs)

Narrator 32:55 (laughs)

John McPhee 32:55 Like, and he's like... He's just a regular guy, you know? And, um, they brought him back to the station and someone had put, I think it was f- a little bit of fentanyl or some other shit-

Narrator 33:04 Jesus Christ.

John McPhee 33:04 ... in his, in the wine. And like, he, he left and he said he felt fine. And he was driving and he said like, "I don't feel right." Even though like, he doesn't really... He had one glass of wine. Like, he might... He doesn't even drink. You know what I mean? I don't even know why he had a glass of wine. Someone probably talked him into it. You know what I mean? He probably didn't even finish it, but he's like... He, you know, he said he was lucky.

Narrator 33:23 There's some-

John McPhee 33:23 He felt lucky.

Narrator 33:24 ... fucking non-human people out there in this world.

John McPhee 33:26 I'm telling you, that's one of the things I wanted to talk about today is like, there's fucking real evil in the world and in Iraq or in A- Afghanistan. You go into these fucked up places where they've been like, I don't know, fucking raping, beheading people, fucking-

Narrator 33:41 Forever.

John McPhee 33:41 ... tribal shit forever.

Narrator 33:43 Forever.

John McPhee 33:43 Like, there was buildings I didn't even wanna fucking go in. Like, you'd, you'd go and you'd be like... Every fucking hair on my body'd just be standing up. And I mean, at the doorway. I'd be like, "I don't even wanna clear this fucking building." You know what I mean? And I don't know fucking why, but uh, I know there's fucking old evil in this world, man.

Narrator 34:00 Evil's real.

John McPhee 34:01 It's fucking real.

Narrator 34:02 And if you've never experienced it, you could walk around delusional and think, "Oh, come on."

John McPhee 34:05 It's real.

Narrator 34:06 It's real.

John McPhee 34:06 You can feel it like... When I'm around real evil shit... Only two places I've felt real evil shit in my life is Gettysburg and fucking in Iraq and-

Narrator 34:17 Gettysburg?

John McPhee 34:17 ... Afghanistan. Yeah. I f- I felt that like... I did... Because I've felt evil before and it like, makes me wanna throw up. It hurts my stomach. Like-

Narrator 34:25 You mean, in the area of Gettysburg?

John McPhee 34:28 Yeah. Yeah, on the battlefield.

Narrator 34:29 My, my stepfather felt the same thing. And he's not woo-woo at all.

John McPhee 34:33 Fuck.

Narrator 34:33 He's like a real straight edge guy.

John McPhee 34:34 Fuck, man. And then-

Narrator 34:35 And he said it felt so creepy.

John McPhee 34:37 I was almost gonna... Me and, uh... Me and my, my son were out there ghost hunting, right? And we were both gonna throw up and I didn't tell him, but like, I had felt that feeling before.

Narrator 34:47 It's crazy that you said that-

John McPhee 34:48 Yeah.

Narrator 34:48 ... about Gettysburg 'cause my stepdad's never said anything like that before. And he said just the feeling. It was so sad and creepy and you just wanted to get out of there immediately.

John McPhee 34:58 Makes me wanna throw up, that feeling.

Narrator 35:00 I think places have memory. I really believe that.

John McPhee 35:02 Well, it's e-

Narrator 35:03 I-

John McPhee 35:03 I think it's energy and I don't think it-

Narrator 35:05 Yeah.

John McPhee 35:05 ... can be created or fucking... You, you talk to science guys, right?

Narrator 35:08 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 35:08 Energy don't go away, right?

Narrator 35:10 Well, there's... I think you just don't see it and you can't measure it, so you assume it's not there. But I think that's one of the reasons why when someone gets murdered in a house, they have to tell you about it.

John McPhee 35:19 Right?

Narrator 35:20 They have to.

John McPhee 35:21 (laughs)

Narrator 35:21 Because like, people, they, they know. Like, there was JonBenét Ramsey's house. When I lived in Boulder, I lived in Boulder for a while and we were, we were looking at houses to buy. And there was this one house, it was like really cheap for the house. I was like, "This is a nice fucking house." They had changed the name of the street so they could try to sell this house, because everybody knew that it was the house that JonBenét Ramsey had been killed in.

John McPhee 35:41 Oh, fuck that house.

Narrator 35:42 They, they couldn't fucking sell the house. And we were lo-

John McPhee 35:44 Fuck that house. (laughs)

Narrator 35:45 Yeah, fuck that house. We were looking at the house on like Zillow and we're like, "Oh, this is a beautiful house. Maybe we should go check out this house." And then we found out and we're like, "Oh, that's why they can't sell it." Like, oh man. Like, they changed the name of the street to try to sell this house.

John McPhee 35:58 It's fucked up.

Narrator 35:59 Yeah.

John McPhee 35:59 They should've just bulldozed it.

Narrator 36:01 They should've bulldozed it and then... What do you do about the ground? It's still there.

John McPhee 36:05 Fuck. Bring it.

Narrator 36:05 You still would... Would you wanna live in a place where they bulldozed the house, where a little girl was getting killed? Fuck that.

John McPhee 36:10 Not, not even, not even joking about it.

Narrator 36:12 No. No.

John McPhee 36:12 I don't wanna live there. (laughs)

Narrator 36:13 No, no one wants to live there. I don't even know what it, what it is now. I mean-

John McPhee 36:16 Yeah.

Narrator 36:16 ... I don't think... know if anybody ever bought it, but...

John McPhee 36:18 Yeah. I grew up in old houses in the Chicago area, you know what I mean? And like some of them houses were creepy for no reason and some weren't.

Narrator 36:25 Right.

John McPhee 36:25 You know what I'm saying? Like...

Narrator 36:27 Yeah. Yeah.

John McPhee 36:28 Uh-

Narrator 36:28 Oh, there's something... There's something to that.

John McPhee 36:30 Yeah. But uh, hey, I was, I was in Iraq and I was in one of them like, you know, Udayin Qusay like, fucking raped people. Them guys were evil, like-

Narrator 36:38 You went to like their, like their palace?

John McPhee 36:40 All of them.

Narrator 36:41 And that kind of shit?

John McPhee 36:41 All of them.... my w- yeah.

Narrator 36:43 Those guys were evil.

John McPhee 36:44 I carried th- I carried their bodies off an airplane and had to guard them until they got cleaned up by the morgue and DNA tested.

Narrator 36:53 Whoa.

John McPhee 36:54 But, uh, them fucking guys, them palaces, like, they would pick up, like, fucking 12-year-olds off the street. They didn't give a fuck.

Narrator 37:02 They'd feed them to dogs.

John McPhee 37:03 The lions, we found them fucking... So, Uday had lions and the lions were (laughs) ... It's not funny, but I mean, it's kinda humorous, but I think it's funny, but, uh, the lions were, like, on the, the army side, the big army side, and they were inside this fence, right? And then the lions were like just lazy as fuck. Didn't care about no army guys, and then one day I seen a lady and kids walk by, and they're just behind chain link. And them fucking lions went nuts, and I knew, like only...

Narrator 37:34 They'd be feeding the ladies and kids.

John McPhee 37:35 That... Fuck, yeah. Fuck, yeah.

Narrator 37:38 (sighs)

John McPhee 37:38 They were fucking evil, man.

Narrator 37:39 I have read so many horrible stories about those guys, that they would find a woman who was getting married, and, uh, they would rape her and then feed her to their dogs.

John McPhee 37:47 Yeah. Or the fucking carp outside the palaces, you know, them big lakes? Full of these giant carps that just love gonna eat bodies like you read about.

Narrator 37:57 (sighs)

John McPhee 37:57 Yeah, but, uh... So, I was down-

Narrator 37:59 (sniffs)

John McPhee 37:59 ... in one of those one night just 'cause, like, I could be, and I had my flashlight. Always been fascinated by ghost hunting, by the way. Uh, so I'm down there by myself just exploring, you know what I mean? And, like, this fucking door slammed on me, you know what I mean? I was freaked the fuck out.

Narrator 38:15 (laughs) .

John McPhee 38:15 And I'm the only one down there, you know what I mean? Like, freaked me the fuck out, man.

Narrator 38:21 Yeah.

John McPhee 38:22 And the energy down in those fucking, like, rape rooms or whatever the f- I don't know what the fuck you call it. Like, they, they... Fucking bad shit there. It's just like... I don't know. Like, it, it, it like... You ever ride like a rollercoaster and it like turns your, turns your stomach?

Narrator 38:38 Yeah.

John McPhee 38:39 That's how it feels to me in them rooms. I don't know what that is. But it makes me almost wanna throw up. And the stronger it is, the more I feel like I'm gonna throw up.

Narrator 38:47 (sighs)

John McPhee 38:47 But, um, yeah.

Narrator 38:48 Those guys were such fucking monsters. It's just so crazy that, that, that story repeats itself over and over again, like the sons of kings-

John McPhee 38:58 Yeah.

Narrator 38:58 ... that grow up that way-

John McPhee 39:00 Yeah.

Narrator 39:00 ... are always like-

John McPhee 39:00 Yeah.

Narrator 39:00 ... just super fucking evil, 'cause they have unchecked power from the time-

John McPhee 39:04 Yeah.

Narrator 39:04 ... they're a child.

John McPhee 39:05 Yeah. Yeah, I got- I gotta be honest, if I could clone myself and I'd had like a mini me right now, I would abuse him just to make sure he grows up right. I would raise him right. You know what I mean?

Narrator 39:17 Yeah.

John McPhee 39:17 Like, uh, I don't... And I, when I say abuse him, I mean like-

Narrator 39:20 Force him to work hard.

John McPhee 39:21 Yeah.

Narrator 39:22 Yeah.

John McPhee 39:22 Fucking earn his shit-

Narrator 39:23 Get up.

John McPhee 39:23 ... his whole fucking life.

Narrator 39:24 Yeah, yeah.

John McPhee 39:24 I mean, like, you know, I had a guy, like I had a (laughs) ... Uh, I don't know what he was. I was in the Middle East somewhere and I, uh, one of the guys asked me, like, "Are American babies stupid?" And I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "Are American babies stupid?" And I'm like, "Why?" And he's like, "Well, in America, like, there would be a fence at the edge of the cliff so the baby can't go over. In my country, like, the baby knows don't go by the cliff." (laughs) And I'm like, "Uh, I don't know."

Narrator 39:51 (laughs) .

John McPhee 39:51 Like, fuck if I... What the fuck?

Narrator 39:53 Well, I bet they don't. I bet the babies that don't know go off the cliff and their, those genes never propagate.

John McPhee 39:58 Again.

Narrator 39:59 Yeah.

John McPhee 39:59 Yeah.

Narrator 40:00 That's the most harsh form of natural selection.

John McPhee 40:02 Darwinism right there.

Narrator 40:04 Yeah, the most harsh form of it.

John McPhee 40:05 Yeah.

Narrator 40:05 Yeah. Yeah, d- no fucking... I mean, kids that grow up outside, lockkey kids, like when I was a kid.

John McPhee 40:11 Yeah.

Narrator 40:12 You just got-

John McPhee 40:12 Same.

Narrator 40:12 ... left out of the house. "Bye."

John McPhee 40:14 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 40:14 "Have fun." And you figure out who's the child molester.

John McPhee 40:16 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 40:17 You figure, you figure out who's a creep, who's... What's dangerous. Don't d- don't go near the train tracks.

John McPhee 40:21 (sighs) .

Narrator 40:21 You can't hear the train till it's too late.

John McPhee 40:22 Yeah, stay away from the drunks-

Narrator 40:23 'Cause you hear about the kid that gets hit. Yeah, yeah.

John McPhee 40:24 ... at the liquor store.

Narrator 40:25 Exactly, yeah.

John McPhee 40:27 Yeah. I did the same thing.

Narrator 40:28 You learn about danger.

John McPhee 40:29 Yeah. I tell you, my, uh, I lo-... I got my first key, I was six. I fucking lost it, like, the same day. (laughs)

Narrator 40:36 (laughs) .

John McPhee 40:36 My mom's yelling at me and she's like, you know, "What do you got to say for yourself?" I was like... I still reme- it's like one of my oldest memories. I was like, "I'm six?"

Narrator 40:45 Yeah.

John McPhee 40:45 And she was just kinda like, (sighs) "Yeah." (laughs)

Narrator 40:49 (laughs)

John McPhee 40:49 You know, "I'm six." Like, "I had it one fucking day."

Narrator 40:52 Yeah.

John McPhee 40:52 Like, "I never carried a key in my life."

Narrator 40:54 Yeah.

John McPhee 40:54 Like, "Of course-

Narrator 40:54 Right.

John McPhee 40:54 ... I'm gonna fuck this up." You know, and she was like, "We can't afford all these keys." You know what I mean?

Narrator 40:59 Right.

John McPhee 41:00 Like, uh, but at the same time, like, "I'm fucking six," you know? So, we ended up-

Narrator 41:03 Yeah.

John McPhee 41:03 ... having to hide it somewhere, and then... You know, 'cause my brother wasn't good at fucking keys either, like...

Narrator 41:08 You know, it's fucked up that I don't want that to happen to my kids. Like, I don't want my k-... I mean, my life was nothing like your life, but I was definitely, like, let loose in the world, you know?

John McPhee 41:18 Yeah.

Narrator 41:18 And not really given any guidance.

John McPhee 41:20 Tona- (laughs) -tona let loose with no guidance.

Narrator 41:23 But that's how you make a person like you. Like, a person like you doesn't come from a home that has, like-

John McPhee 41:30 Right.

Narrator 41:30 ... you know, you're coddled, you're taken care of, you're always protected.

John McPhee 41:34 Yeah.

Narrator 41:34 Like, the only way you make like a legit beast of a man is that that man has to go through a lot of shit through their life-

John McPhee 41:41 Yeah.

Narrator 41:41 ... and then they come out on the other end hard.

John McPhee 41:43 Right.

Narrator 41:43 It's the only way.

John McPhee 41:44 Right.

Narrator 41:45 Like, you don't... You know, I've never met, like, a world champion fighter that came from, like, the happiest of childhoods.

John McPhee 41:51 Yeah.

Narrator 41:51 It's just doesn't exist.

John McPhee 41:52 Yeah, but I don't... A lot of, a lot of unit or special forces or ranger guys, like, uh, I used to call it the fatherless, you know what I mean? And it, it works kinda two ways. Either you had a dad, but he worked and he came home and he passed out and he woke up and he was gone before you got up. And when you got home, he was asleep on the couch or already out for the night 'cause he fucking works, fucking, a lot of hours. Or you kinda just didn't have a dad, you know what I mean?

Narrator 42:20 Right.

John McPhee 42:20 Those people make special forces soldiers. Just like, you know, dad issues for a chick will put her on a pole.

Narrator 42:26 Right.

John McPhee 42:26 Those same issues in a dude puts him in special forces, I think.

Narrator 42:30 Yeah. Yeah.

John McPhee 42:30 And I'll take the fatherless all day long.

Narrator 42:33 ... yeah.

John McPhee 42:33 You know?

Narrator 42:34 Yeah.

John McPhee 42:34 For sure.

Narrator 42:35 Well, those are the world champions. I mean, that's Mike Tyson, right?

John McPhee 42:39 Yeah.

Narrator 42:39 You know, he was 13 years old, no family.

John McPhee 42:41 Yeah.

Narrator 42:42 Gets adopted by a guy who's a psychologist, who's a, you know, a hypnotist.

John McPhee 42:46 Yeah.

Narrator 42:46 And is a great boxing coach, and teaches him to become this elite fighter. And you- I kinda think that you don't become that guy unless you're dealing with all sorts of unspeakable tragedy and horrors-

John McPhee 42:58 Right.

Narrator 42:58 ... when you're a child.

John McPhee 42:59 Well, you wouldn't have that kind of focus without that.

Narrator 43:02 Right. You wouldn't have that monster inside you.

John McPhee 43:04 Right. Right.

Narrator 43:04 Like, you have to- that monster has to grow because it needs to be there.

John McPhee 43:07 Right.

Narrator 43:08 Yeah.

John McPhee 43:08 Yeah. I would say, like... And I don't know what the ratio is, but I would say, like, one outta every fucking 100 or even 300 is, like, the fucking high school quarterback who married the fucking prom king, for-

Narrator 43:20 Very rare.

John McPhee 43:20 Yeah. Like-

Narrator 43:21 Very rare. Very rare.

John McPhee 43:22 I think I only knew one of those guys.

Narrator 43:24 Yeah.

John McPhee 43:24 You know what I mean?

Narrator 43:24 And those guys, I bet if you dig into their childhood, their dad was probably a little abusive.

John McPhee 43:28 Yeah. Or their mom or w- this-

Narrator 43:29 Or a brother.

John McPhee 43:30 Yeah. Something.

Narrator 43:31 There's another thing. It's, uh, older brothers. It's like, you wanna find the young brother.

John McPhee 43:35 Yeah.

Narrator 43:35 The young brother's the beast.

John McPhee 43:37 I'm the little brother. (laughs)

Narrator 43:38 (laughs) Yeah, that's it. The young brother gets beat up by the older brother and just constantly in battle his whole life. Like, so many fighters-

John McPhee 43:46 Yep.

Narrator 43:46 ... the- the best fighters have, like... Like, Chris Weidman's g- got a great story like that.

John McPhee 43:50 Well, I mean, think about this. If you had to fight your bigger brother off your whole life, you would be good at jujitsu.

Narrator 43:55 Yeah.

John McPhee 43:55 Why? 'Cause you understand leverage, you understand patience, wait for the move.

Narrator 43:59 Yeah.

John McPhee 44:00 Take some punishment, move later. You know the deal, right?

Narrator 44:02 You're also accustomed to being in battle all the time-

John McPhee 44:06 Right. Right.

Narrator 44:06 ... with your brother.

John McPhee 44:07 Right.

Narrator 44:08 Yeah. Because-

John McPhee 44:08 Hixon was a little brother to Rolls.

Narrator 44:10 Yeah.

John McPhee 44:11 Yeah.

Narrator 44:11 Yeah.

John McPhee 44:11 Same thing.

Narrator 44:12 Yeah, and Rorion. Yeah.

John McPhee 44:14 Yeah.

Narrator 44:14 Hixon is a... He's such a unique guy, because he was, like, the first guy that figured out, like, that physical strength, yoga, all the gymnastic, uh, natural stuff that he did, flexibility.

John McPhee 44:28 Breathing.

Narrator 44:29 Like, yeah. He was, like, a physical specimen on top of being super technical.

John McPhee 44:33 Yeah.

Narrator 44:34 So he had, like, both things.

John McPhee 44:35 Yeah. He had it all, I think-

Narrator 44:37 Yeah.

John McPhee 44:37 ... way before people knew.

Narrator 44:38 Way before.

John McPhee 44:39 Like, he, he knew the winning mindset and how to keep that mental edge-

Narrator 44:47 Yeah.

John McPhee 44:47 ... with all the other things. And the fighting was just something that he grew up to do, I think, in my opinion.

Narrator 44:53 Yeah.

John McPhee 44:53 You know what I mean?

Narrator 44:53 Yeah. He had that samurai mindset.

John McPhee 44:55 Yeah. I'm telling you, I think he... Like, I talk to a lot of people. Uh, I know some legendary guys from the army, right? Uh, when he talks, it's like this weird time vortex. You ever talk to him, like, seriously?

Narrator 45:10 Oh, yeah. Like- Yeah, I've had a couple of podcasts with him.

John McPhee 45:12 Wow. Like, it's incredible, you know?

Narrator 45:13 I went over his house once, in like 2000, and, uh, him and, um, uh, his, his son, and we were watching Coliseum. So, Coliseum was like the last time he fought, when he fought Funaki. And, uh, we were watching all the different fights. He had a, a tape of it, and we're watching it. And he was breaking down all the things that all these guys were doing wrong. It was such a fascinating education.

John McPhee 45:40 Yeah.

Narrator 45:40 He's like, "There's too much space."

John McPhee 45:42 Yes.

Narrator 45:42 "You start here, there's too much space." And he goes... He, he had this philosophy-

John McPhee 45:45 Good, good accent, by the way.

Narrator 45:47 He goes, he goes, "We start at a neutral point. We start at a neutral point. If I get to one, I'm not going back to zero. I'm going one to two to three to checkmate." He goes, "I'm not going backwards." He goes, "These guys, they lose position, they go for here, go for there, all this extra space." And he was, like, breaking it down while we're watching the fights. It was such an education.

John McPhee 46:09 Love that, man.

Narrator 46:09 Oh, it was fucking amazing, man.

John McPhee 46:11 Yeah.

Narrator 46:11 It was amazing.

John McPhee 46:12 Yeah. He's a, he's a legend.

Narrator 46:14 Oh, man. Like, one of the great legends of martial arts. You know? If you, like, go into the history of martial arts, Rickson Gracie will go down as... You know, if there's a Mount Rushmore of martial arts legends, him and Royce are right up there.

John McPhee 46:27 Yeah, I agree with that. Agreed.

Narrator 46:28 And Royce would tell you, like, Rickson, he goes, "My brother was a 100 times better than me."

John McPhee 46:31 Yeah. Yeah. Well, when Royce used to come to us, he would tell us straight up, "I'm not the family fighter."

Narrator 46:36 Yeah.

John McPhee 46:36 Our, our, f- Uh, you know, and I think what he told us back then was like, I don't know, Rickson was Pride contracts.

Narrator 46:43 Mm-hmm.

John McPhee 46:43 UFC was different. Couldn't figure it out.

Narrator 46:45 Yeah.

John McPhee 46:46 That's why Royce even fought, right? I, I thought that was kind of the deal back then, but I don't-

Narrator 46:50 Well, I think-

John McPhee 46:50 I don't... That was a long time ago.

Narrator 46:51 Rorion... There was a, a bunch of different thoughts on it. You know, Royce jokes around and he goes-

John McPhee 46:56 Yeah.

Narrator 46:56 He goes, "Look how beautiful I am. That's why they wanted me."

John McPhee 46:59 Yeah.

Narrator 46:59 But it was also because Rickson was very physically dominant, and the idea was like, "Let's have this guy that doesn't look physically impressive-

John McPhee 47:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 47:08 ... to show jujitsu, to show the power of jujitsu. But if that doesn't work, then we bring in Rickson."

John McPhee 47:14 Uh-huh. I didn't know that.

Narrator 47:16 But obviously, Royce beat everybody.

John McPhee 47:16 Yeah.

Narrator 47:16 And then Rickson went over to do Japan Valley Judo-

John McPhee 47:19 Yeah.

Narrator 47:19 ... In like '94, I think it was.

John McPhee 47:22 I used to love all those, the Valley Judos, Pride.

Narrator 47:24 Oh, yeah, man.

John McPhee 47:24 I thought that was the best, man.

Narrator 47:25 Oh, the, the great... The golden era of martial arts.

John McPhee 47:28 Yeah.

Narrator 47:28 It's just when everybody was learning.

John McPhee 47:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 47:30 Like, "Holy shit, there's so much out there."

John McPhee 47:33 Yeah. I agree.

Narrator 47:33 I know.

John McPhee 47:34 I loved every minute of that.

Narrator 47:34 And then Fedor Emelianenko comes on the scene.

John McPhee 47:37 Oh.

Narrator 47:37 He's just like-

John McPhee 47:37 Oh.Fedor is my favorite.

Narrator 47:40 One of the all-time greats.

John McPhee 47:41 Yeah.

Narrator 47:41 He's another one. I mean-

John McPhee 47:42 Yeah.

Narrator 47:42 ... if there's an, uh, the greatest heavyweight of all time, you have to ha-

John McPhee 47:45 Yeah.

Narrator 47:45 ... he's gotta be in the conversation.

John McPhee 47:46 I feel like, uh, back in the day, we'd be like, we'd be talking about fighting, and it'd be like, "Man, I wonder if anyone's ever, like, done this from, like, the mount." Yeah, uh, Fedor won, like, six fights like that.

Narrator 47:57 Yeah.

John McPhee 47:57 And then, like, "I wonder if anyone's ever done, like, something like this?" And, like, well, Fedor won his last fight just like that.

Narrator 48:02 Yeah.

John McPhee 48:02 And you're just like, "Fucking this guy." Like, you know what I mean?

Narrator 48:06 Oh, in his prime, he was a monster.

John McPhee 48:07 Yeah, I agree.

Narrator 48:08 He was r- and so stoic.

John McPhee 48:09 Yeah.

Narrator 48:09 Like, his expression never changed.

John McPhee 48:11 Yeah.

Narrator 48:12 He gets head-kicked, he gets suplexed.

John McPhee 48:14 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 48:14 No- nothing.

John McPhee 48:15 It's like no one's home in there.

Narrator 48:16 Yeah.

John McPhee 48:16 You know what I mean?

Narrator 48:17 It just, just didn't register.

John McPhee 48:18 Yeah.

Narrator 48:18 He was just a machine.

John McPhee 48:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Narrator 48:19 Yeah.

John McPhee 48:20 I loved him. And I liked when he, uh, I seen an interview one time, remember his brother Alexander?

Narrator 48:24 Sure.

John McPhee 48:25 He was like, "Alexander is better than me if he just wouldn't party so much." (laughs)

Narrator 48:29 Yeah, he was an animal.

John McPhee 48:30 And I was just thinking, "Fucking Fedor saying his brother's better than him?" You know what I mean? What?

Narrator 48:35 Yeah. Well, his brother was bigger and taller-

John McPhee 48:37 Yeah.

Narrator 48:37 ... and was a nasty striker, man.

John McPhee 48:39 Yeah.

Narrator 48:39 His brother was a vicious striker.

John McPhee 48:40 Had good kicks too.

Narrator 48:41 Oh my God.

John McPhee 48:42 Good leg kicks.

Narrator 48:42 He was fucking good, man.

John McPhee 48:43 Yeah.

Narrator 48:44 But that was, that was the days where, you know, everyone was just kind of figuring out-

John McPhee 48:48 Yeah.

Narrator 48:48 ... what worked and what didn't work.

John McPhee 48:49 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You had, uh, Wanderlei, the ax murderer.

Narrator 48:52 Oh, man.

John McPhee 48:53 I love it.

Narrator 48:54 It was also a time where everybody was juicy.

John McPhee 48:56 Yeah.

Narrator 48:57 The, the wh-

John McPhee 48:57 Yeah.

Narrator 48:57 ... the whole organization was like, I had a friend who was gonna fight over there, and he was 170 pounds, and they said, uh, "No, we want you to fight at 185. Go do steroids."

John McPhee 49:06 (laughs)

Narrator 49:06 Like, "Go do steroids." And he's like, "What the fuck?"

John McPhee 49:09 Come back-

Narrator 49:09 He's like, "They tell us to do steroids."

John McPhee 49:11 Ah.

Narrator 49:12 And when Anson was on the podcast, he told me, in the contract, it said, like, in capital letters, "We do not test for steroids."

John McPhee 49:18 (laughs)

Narrator 49:18 They're like, "Go have fun." (laughs)

John McPhee 49:21 Yeah. Come back yoked up.

Narrator 49:22 Come back juicy.

John McPhee 49:23 Yeah.

Narrator 49:23 Everybody was juicy back then.

John McPhee 49:24 Yeah.

Narrator 49:25 Because it was the wild days. It was like-

John McPhee 49:27 Right.

Narrator 49:27 ... the Wild West.

John McPhee 49:27 Right, right.

Narrator 49:28 And they just wanted the best, most exciting fights possible.

John McPhee 49:31 I think that's what people want now.

Narrator 49:33 Oh, yeah.

John McPhee 49:33 You know what I mean? Like, I-

Narrator 49:34 There's a real argument for that.

John McPhee 49:35 ... I don't think the fans give a fuck about drug testing.

Narrator 49:37 No.

John McPhee 49:38 And you know, I don't think... Look, and I think this is for all, like, the Olympics, I get it. But the NFL, like, seriously? Why you even fucking...

Narrator 49:46 Right.

John McPhee 49:46 Why? Why?

Narrator 49:46 What are you, testing, what do you want, the sport to suck?

John McPhee 49:48 (laughs)

Narrator 49:48 Like baseball, that was the thing when they were doing, like, Mark McGwire and all that shit-

John McPhee 49:52 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 49:52 ... and Sammy Sosa.

John McPhee 49:53 Yeah.

Narrator 49:54 Like, why are you testing these guys? It's the most exciting thing, is to hit a home run. These guys are doing something that makes them better at hitting home runs. Everybody should do that thing, whatever the fuck that is.

John McPhee 50:03 I mean, think about how much more money that bring those organizations.

Narrator 50:05 Yeah, but there was this thing back then that it was cheating. But what it really is, is science. Like, they-

John McPhee 50:11 Science.

Narrator 50:11 ... figure out there's a way where you recover more, you get stronger, you get faster. Like, hey, do that, guys.

John McPhee 50:16 Uh-huh.

Narrator 50:16 And by the way, everybody else is doing it too. They're just-

John McPhee 50:19 Yeah.

Narrator 50:19 ... like, hiding it in some sort of a weird way. You know-

John McPhee 50:22 Yeah.

Narrator 50:22 ... they're just masking it and taking weird stuff. And there was, you know, that BALCO scandal where they're all taking this stuff called The Clear. So they fa-

John McPhee 50:30 Never even heard of that.

Narrator 50:31 You never heard of that?

John McPhee 50:31 No, I never heard of any of this.

Narrator 50:31 I had that guy, Victor Conte, on the podcast-

John McPhee 50:34 Oh.

Narrator 50:34 ... who created The Clear. And what he, what, he's a scientist. And what he did is he, BALCO Labs, they figured out that when they're testing, they're testing for very specific metabolites. So, they took steroids and then they changed it slightly-

John McPhee 50:47 (laughs)

Narrator 50:47 ... so that it didn't show up in the test, and they're giving 'em this stuff, and they would all pass clear. And they were all fucking (retching noise) just monsters, like Barry Bonds.

John McPhee 50:56 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 50:56 He was a monster. I met Barry Bonds in 1994. I was on this television show called Hardball. And Barry Bonds was, uh, you know, he was just still a major league player, a big time player.

John McPhee 51:08 Famous. He's famous.

Narrator 51:08 But he was, but he was a regular guy. Like, he looked like a regular athlete. And then he started getting juicy. And then years later, he gained like 60 pounds and was just fucking gigantic-

John McPhee 51:18 (laughs)

Narrator 51:18 ... and smashing home runs. Like, that would be good.

John McPhee 51:21 Yeah.

Narrator 51:21 Like, you should keep doing that-

John McPhee 51:23 Yeah.

Narrator 51:23 ... whatever you're doing.

John McPhee 51:23 I think that's all sports. Yo, jump as high as you can. Take your fucking gear, jump high, run far, smash each other.

Narrator 51:31 Yeah.

John McPhee 51:31 Let's go.

Narrator 51:31 Well, that's the Enhanced games.

John McPhee 51:33 Yeah.

Narrator 51:33 You know, the Enhanced games doing that. They're developing this whole protocol right now.

John McPhee 51:37 Yeah.

Narrator 51:37 And the Enhanced games gonna-

John McPhee 51:39 Yeah.

Narrator 51:39 ... let people do whatever the fuck they want that works.

John McPhee 51:42 Yeah.

Narrator 51:42 And their idea is, "We are gonna develop the best athletes in every discipline, and then we're gonna give them a lot of money. And we're gonna, like, fuck the Olympics." The Olympics is a giant scam.

John McPhee 51:54 Yeah, I agree.

Narrator 51:54 Because the Olympics, the athletes don't make any money. And NBC-

John McPhee 51:58 (laughs)

Narrator 51:58 ... and all these broadcast networks and the IOC, they're making billions of dollars off the backs of these athletes' hard work. And no one is going to see them. They're going to see the athletes.

John McPhee 52:08 Right.

Narrator 52:08 I mean, the athletes aren't even compensated. It's a-

John McPhee 52:10 Right.

Narrator 52:11 ... crazy scam. It really is. 'Cause it's not like n- if no one made any money, including the networks, including the IOC, great, great.

John McPhee 52:20 Right, right.

Narrator 52:21 But that's not the case.

John McPhee 52:22 Yeah.

Narrator 52:22 Someone's making a fucking shit ton of money, but it's not the people that are putting in the hard work. It's the people that are pointing cameras at them.

John McPhee 52:30 Yeah.

Narrator 52:31 It's the dumbest fucking thing of all time.

John McPhee 52:33 Yeah, that's fucked up.

Narrator 52:33 And so the Enhanced Games is like, "Let's throw out the drug testing. Let's encourage people to do whatever the fuck that works, and let's give them a lot of money." So like, whoever wins, whatever they, like, give them a million dollars.

John McPhee 52:44 Yeah.

Narrator 52:44 And then you'll get, like, the elite athletes who'll be like, "Well, why am I wasting my time competing for free? Maybe I blow out an ACL or herniate a disc and my career is over, and I don't have shit to show for it. Or I can do steroids and then win and, and have money for the rest of my life."

John McPhee 53:02 Yeah. (clears throat) I wanna watch the steroid sports.

Narrator 53:05 Of course. Yeah.

John McPhee 53:06 You know what I mean? The Enhanced League or whatever it's called.

Narrator 53:09 Yeah.

John McPhee 53:09 Like, that sounds to me like the NFL's going away. (laughs)

Narrator 53:13 Yeah. I know.

John McPhee 53:14 I wanna see the mountain hit another mountain. You know what I mean? Like, let's go.

Narrator 53:17 Could you imagine if they just got, if they told the NFL, let's just say, "Everybody get juicy."

John McPhee 53:21 Fuck.

Narrator 53:22 Those guys are already freaks.

John McPhee 53:23 They're already doing it. Like-

Narrator 53:24 Probably.

John McPhee 53:25 ... you know what I mean?

Narrator 53:26 Have to be.

John McPhee 53:26 I mean, I, I only imagine. I don't know.

Narrator 53:29 Have to be. Have to be.

John McPhee 53:29 But my two cents is like, you're doing it anyway. Just fucking go with it.

Narrator 53:33 The way I understand it is-

John McPhee 53:34 Just don't talk about it.

Narrator 53:35 ... they allow, they let them know when testing is happening.And so then everybody-

John McPhee 53:39 Why even waste the fucking money?

Narrator 53:40 Yeah.

John McPhee 53:40 You know what I mean?

Narrator 53:41 Exactly.

John McPhee 53:41 Like, phone it in. Let's just phone that in.

Narrator 53:43 (laughs)

John McPhee 53:43 You know what I mean? Like, "Yo, I took that drug test."

Narrator 53:46 Yeah.

John McPhee 53:46 "Okay. Click."

Narrator 53:47 Yeah.

John McPhee 53:47 Save some money for everybody.

Narrator 53:48 The drug test should be multiple choice. That's- (laughs)

John McPhee 53:49 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 53:50 Fill it out. Nope, nothing.

John McPhee 53:52 Yeah, yeah. The, the drug test should be-

Narrator 53:54 Fed a bit.

John McPhee 53:54 ... "We're just kinda curious if you've had any success."

Narrator 53:56 Right. Right.

John McPhee 53:56 "And we wanna know what works, so we can recommend better stuff to people."

Narrator 54:00 Yes. Right. But there's this-

John McPhee 54:01 That's what I would do.

Narrator 54:01 ... weird thing about, you know, protecting the athletes' health. Like, hey, fuckface, they're playing football. If you really cared about their health, you would tell them, "Don't play football."

John McPhee 54:10 (laughs) So true. Yeah.

Narrator 54:12 You... There's no way you care about their health.

John McPhee 54:13 Yeah.

Narrator 54:14 There's no fucking way.

John McPhee 54:15 Yeah.

Narrator 54:15 You know? It just doesn't-

John McPhee 54:16 Yeah.

Narrator 54:16 ... make any sense.

John McPhee 54:17 I mean, there's inherent natures of danger there.

Narrator 54:19 Yeah.

John McPhee 54:20 Concussions, knees-

Narrator 54:21 Yeah.

John McPhee 54:21 ... shoulders. Right? Like-

Narrator 54:22 Yes. Everything gets blown out.

John McPhee 54:23 Yeah.

Narrator 54:23 How about vaccines?

John McPhee 54:25 Ugh.

Narrator 54:25 How about you make them get vaccinated and they have fucking heart attacks on the field?

John McPhee 54:28 Ugh.

Narrator 54:28 Does that make any sense? None.

John McPhee 54:30 No.

Narrator 54:30 You don't care about their health. You're full of shit.

John McPhee 54:31 Yeah.

Narrator 54:32 Those guys didn't have to worry for a second about COVID. They're elite athletes of the highest order. Do you really think that something that is ... literally only kills, like, 0.03% of the people who get it? And those people or most of them have comorbidities. Do you really think elite athletes of the highest order had to worry about that? Of course they didn't.

John McPhee 54:53 No.

Narrator 54:54 It's all bullshit.

John McPhee 54:54 Yeah.

Narrator 54:54 You don't care about them.

John McPhee 54:56 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 54:56 Let them get juicy.

John McPhee 54:57 Yeah. Fucking juice it up, boys.

Narrator 54:58 Let's go. (laughs)

John McPhee 54:59 Get that gear. You know what I mean? Hey, let's take those piss cups and turn them into fucking drink cups-

Narrator 55:05 Yeah.

John McPhee 55:05 ... and serve them some whiskey in the locker room.

Narrator 55:07 (laughs)

John McPhee 55:07 Let's get this shit going. And I want more fighting in my sports. You know what I mean? Like-

Narrator 55:11 That's why I like hockey.

John McPhee 55:12 Yeah. I love hockey.

Narrator 55:13 Hockey's the last sport that allows fistfights normally in the middle of a sport.

John McPhee 55:17 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 55:18 It's the only sport that allows-

John McPhee 55:19 Yeah.

Narrator 55:19 ... the occasional fistfight.

John McPhee 55:21 Yeah. Well-

Narrator 55:21 Which is kind of crazy.

John McPhee 55:22 I live in North Carolina and there's a, there's like a little local hockey team at Bragg (laughs) . And like every ... Like, I go to a lot of hockey games 'cause it's like, it was like seven bucks for like a long time. You know what I mean? Uh, and they'll fucking blood on the ice on the Thanksgiving game. You know, they'll throw like a ... They'll, they'll have like a non-league team come in. And it's fucking blood on the ice, man. These, like, the Southern Provisional Hockey League. Like-

Narrator 55:47 (sucks teeth)

John McPhee 55:47 I love this hockey, you know?

Narrator 55:48 It's just wild that that's the only sport where fistfighting is allowed.

John McPhee 55:52 Yeah.

Narrator 55:52 It's kinda crazy 'cause it's grandfathered in.

John McPhee 55:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 55:55 Because it's basically bare knuckle boxing in the middle of a sport.

John McPhee 55:59 Yeah.

Narrator 55:59 Which is real weird.

John McPhee 56:00 Yeah. Well, then you got soccer where like, you know, you rubbed elbows with a guy and he falls over.

Narrator 56:05 Yeah. (laughs)

John McPhee 56:05 And you're like, "What the fuck?" You're faking it. Like-

Narrator 56:08 Yeah.

John McPhee 56:09 ... I have children. I know the faker.

Narrator 56:11 (laughs)

John McPhee 56:11 Like, what the fuck? Like I'm a parent. You can't fool me.

Narrator 56:13 Exa- Well, anybody could see ... It's the-

John McPhee 56:15 Yeah.

Narrator 56:15 ... dumbest thing. Like a, a hand-

John McPhee 56:17 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 56:18 ... hits their face. They're like, "Oh."

John McPhee 56:18 Yeah, they fall on the ground.

Narrator 56:19 They fall down and they're fucking holding their side or they're holding their chest. It's so dumb. But it's also one of the reasons why it's not really accepted in America.

John McPhee 56:26 Yeah, I agree.

Narrator 56:26 'Cause you watch that flopping. We're like, "Come on. Get up. This is so crazy."

John McPhee 56:31 Yeah. I totally agree, man.

Narrator 56:32 Especially when people watch football.

John McPhee 56:34 Yeah.

Narrator 56:34 You're watching guys get fucking waylaid-

John McPhee 56:37 Yeah.

Narrator 56:37 ... by a 300-pound super athlete.

John McPhee 56:39 Yes.

Narrator 56:39 They get up and shake it off.

John McPhee 56:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 56:41 And then they're right back on the field.

John McPhee 56:42 Yeah. The guy's, like, adjusts his helmet a little bit.

Narrator 56:45 (laughs)

John McPhee 56:45 You know what I mean? Takes his mouthpiece out, you know. All right. Go- fucking move on.

Narrator 56:48 I just started watching football literally this last year. And, uh, you know, when I see guys collide, I fuck- I, I've had so many injuries, knee surgeries and shit and jujitsu injuries. I see guys get hit. I just like fucking hold my knees-

John McPhee 57:00 Yeah.

Narrator 57:00 ... I hold my back like, "Oh." (laughs) 'Cause it's the most brutal shit of all time. A guy who's 290 pounds is running-

John McPhee 57:08 Yeah.

Narrator 57:08 ... full blast and colliding with you with 100%-

John McPhee 57:11 Yeah.

Narrator 57:11 ... of his strength.

John McPhee 57:12 Yeah. Yeah. It's fucking crazy, man.

Narrator 57:15 Yeah.

John McPhee 57:15 I used to, uh ... When I was 38, I was a Sergeant Major in the army, and like, I don't know, hand-to-hand jujitsu kinda got boring for me. So like, I was looking for other hobbies. I was at the PX and I seen like the Fort Bragg rugby team practice is like Tuesday at 6:00 or something. So, I just went out there for something to do, man. And I'm gonna tell you, you think fucking jujitsu fucks people up?

Narrator 57:39 (laughs)

John McPhee 57:39 Fucking go play fucking rugby. Matter of fact, stay the fuck away from rugby.

Narrator 57:43 Yeah.

John McPhee 57:44 Like it's fucking brutal and like-

Narrator 57:45 No helmets.

John McPhee 57:46 No nothing, man. And like, uh, when I was a kid, I don't know if I can say this, but we played smear the queer all the time. Like I don't know what you call that, but that's what it was just called when we were kids. I'd come home. My shirt would be ripped. I'd get another beating 'cause like you ripped another shirt. These are expensive, you know what I mean? But like it's my brother's anyway, right? Like not like he bought me a shirt. Uh, but, uh, man, it was like crazy. My first practice, like the ball's sitting there and then one of the coaches is like, "Grab the ball and run."

Narrator 58:13 (laughs)

John McPhee 58:13 So I just fucking grabbed the ball and just ran every one of these little motherfuckers over. And then, uh, like guys were like, "Man, what college you play in?" I was like, "Uh, uh, none." And I never played a rugby a day in my li- You know, my first game, you know, was like fucking in my third practice. (laughs) You know what I mean? And like-

Narrator 58:31 That's crazy.

John McPhee 58:32 But in, in doing jujitsu and fighting people in Iraq every night, like I thought rugby was kinda easy. The guy's running at me and I just gotta take him down. Fucking double legs. And then I started getting more tackles than anyone. And my coach, you know, they used to keep stats. I mean, like he had like 80 tackles a game. How do you do that? And it's like, "Double, double, double leg takedown? Single leg?" (laughs)

Narrator 58:54 (laughs)

John McPhee 58:54 "Maybe a trip?"

Narrator 58:55 Yeah.

John McPhee 58:55 You know what I mean? And, but, uh, and then like, uh, one of the times, you know, one of the coaches was like, "Hey, will you teach us how you ... You know, how would you, how do you normally tackle? You get the most tackles." And I'm like, "Double, single legs."

Narrator 59:06 So you basically teaching them wrestling.

John McPhee 59:08 I just taught wrestling moves.

Narrator 59:09 Why don't they l- teach them that? That would seem to be like a good skill.

John McPhee 59:12 I bet the, I bet the pro-level fuckers are doing that shit.

Narrator 59:15 They have to.

John McPhee 59:16 Like have to.

Narrator 59:17 Yeah.

John McPhee 59:17 I mean, 'cause think about this. Like, um, I know a lot of linemen, um, do like Cali for hand speed and stuff like that.

Narrator 59:25 Oh.

John McPhee 59:26 You know what I mean? Right?

Narrator 59:27 Okay. Yeah.

John McPhee 59:27 'Cause they gotta, they gotta win the hand fight, so.

Narrator 59:29 Right.

John McPhee 59:29 I know there's a lot of sports that use a lot of discipline, so I would imagine they would have to be s- fucking having, you know, wrestling practice or takedown tackle practice, right? I would imagine they're doing same shit as everyone else for the first 10 years.

Narrator 59:43 Well, just understanding leverage and how to manipulate a body.

John McPhee 59:46 Right.

Narrator 59:46 Yeah.

John McPhee 59:47 Right. Well, p-... there's no pads. So-

Narrator 59:50 Right.

John McPhee 59:50 ... you know, you can't come 30 miles an hour into this tackle. You might have to come in at 10 miles an hour.

Narrator 59:56 Right, right.

John McPhee 59:56 You know what I mean? 'Cause you got no pads.

Narrator 59:58 Right.

John McPhee 59:59 You know?

Narrator 59:59 Well, that's the argument against pads in football is that these guys-

John McPhee 1:00:04 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:04 ... the only reason why they can play the way they are and collide-

John McPhee 1:00:07 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:07 ... with each other full blast-

John McPhee 1:00:07 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:08 ... is 'cause they have helmets and pads on.

John McPhee 1:00:09 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 1:00:10 Which is totally true.

John McPhee 1:00:10 Yeah. I want thicker helmets and more collisions. Let's go.

Narrator 1:00:14 (laughs)

John McPhee 1:00:14 (laughs) Like, come on.

Narrator 1:00:15 It would be a wild game if you had American football and no pads. I mean, that's what they used to do.

John McPhee 1:00:20 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:20 Way back, they had those little leather head-

John McPhee 1:00:22 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:22 ... things they put on their head.

John McPhee 1:00:23 Yeah, the little leather helmet. Like, you couldn't pay me to wear one of those. Get the fuck outta here with that.

Narrator 1:00:27 I wonder how many guys died playing that.

John McPhee 1:00:29 Oh, imagine how many concussions.

Narrator 1:00:31 Oh, how many head-to-head collisions?

John McPhee 1:00:33 Oh.

Narrator 1:00:33 Running full blast. And then, you know, if you're Samoan, you're like-

John McPhee 1:00:38 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:38 ... some big giant dude.

John McPhee 1:00:39 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:39 You're gonna go head to head with guys 'cause you know you're gonna win it.

John McPhee 1:00:42 Yeah. Fuck, every time, man.

Narrator 1:00:43 So you're just fucking-

John McPhee 1:00:44 Yeah.

Narrator 1:00:44 ... headbutting everybody.

John McPhee 1:00:45 Yeah. The oth- the army team has a lotta Tongans.

Narrator 1:00:48 Oh, yeah.

John McPhee 1:00:49 There's a Fort Bragg. A, Tongans are paratroopers as people. I don't know how that works, but they are, man. They all play rugby. A buddy of mine was like ... I was like, you know, "You, how, you know, when, when did you start playing rugby?" He was like, "I was, like, three." You know?

Narrator 1:01:03 (laughs)

John McPhee 1:01:03 Huge guy, like-

Narrator 1:01:04 (laughs)

John McPhee 1:01:04 ... I knew, like, I knew I was doing pretty good at rugby when the Tongans were like ... We'd pick, they'd pick teams and all the Tongans would be like, "We want Big John."

Narrator 1:01:13 (laughs)

John McPhee 1:01:14 "You can have the rest." And I'd be like, "Yeah, me and the Tongans will get some, right? We'll fucking crush the people." But, like, they start playing with, like, a coconut.

Narrator 1:01:23 Jesus.

John McPhee 1:01:23 Imagine holding a coconut and just going down ribs on a coconut, like ... (groaning sound) And I'm like, "Why would you play with a coconut?" And he was like, "Well, there is only one rugby ball on the island and the bigger boys had it." (laughs) I'm like, "Oh, okay."

Narrator 1:01:36 Jesus.

John McPhee 1:01:36 Like ...

Narrator 1:01:37 Yeah.

John McPhee 1:01:37 But, um, yeah, I played rugby for a while. And I stopped doing MMA to play rugby, but what I realized is rugby's way more injury prone and dangerous, so I kinda went back to jujitsu.

Narrator 1:01:48 Oh, yeah. One-on-one is definitely you can control a lot more of what's going on than a bunch of dudes-

John McPhee 1:01:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 1:01:55 ... colliding into each other.

John McPhee 1:01:56 Yeah.

Narrator 1:01:56 Yeah.

John McPhee 1:01:57 I agree, man. So-

Narrator 1:01:58 It's a hard fucking sport.

John McPhee 1:01:59 I know. Rugby's awesome, man.

Narrator 1:02:00 It's, it is awesome. It's weird how it never took off in America. It's kinda strange. You know? Because we love violence.

John McPhee 1:02:06 Yeah.

Narrator 1:02:06 You would imagine that rugby would be something that we would've adopted.

John McPhee 1:02:09 I, I think the only reason it's not popular is 'cause of the time. Like, it's like soccer. Once it starts, it doesn't stop.

Narrator 1:02:17 Oh.

John McPhee 1:02:17 Americans wanna go take a piss and get another beer and come back, and then they want you-

Narrator 1:02:22 They have to have commercials.

John McPhee 1:02:23 Yeah. And, like-

Narrator 1:02:23 That's the big thing about soccer. It's tough-

John McPhee 1:02:25 And the game never stops.

Narrator 1:02:26 ... tough to sell commercials-

John McPhee 1:02:27 Right.

Narrator 1:02:27 ... 'cause you can't stop the game.

John McPhee 1:02:29 Right.

Narrator 1:02:29 Whereas football, you have a fucking ... You have graph time, bro.

John McPhee 1:02:32 Right, right.

Narrator 1:02:32 You got a whole half hour.

John McPhee 1:02:33 Well, you ever see the apps that just show you the plays of football? The whole game's, like, 12 minutes of actual work.

Narrator 1:02:39 Right. Yeah.

John McPhee 1:02:39 You know what I mean?

Narrator 1:02:39 Right.

John McPhee 1:02:39 Ten minutes. You know what I mean?

Narrator 1:02:41 Whereas soccer, those motherfuckers are running the entire time.

John McPhee 1:02:43 Yeah. 80 minutes, let's go. And it doesn't stop, you know?

Narrator 1:02:46 Yeah. You have to be in insane shape to play soccer.

John McPhee 1:02:49 (exhales)

Narrator 1:02:49 You're, the cardio is just nuts.

John McPhee 1:02:50 Fuck.

Narrator 1:02:50 You're basically sprinting for the entire game.

John McPhee 1:02:52 Yeah. I never played soccer, but ... And I don't think I would enjoy it.

Narrator 1:02:56 Well, we went to watch. They had the, they have a professional league here in Austin.

John McPhee 1:03:00 Mm-hmm.

Narrator 1:03:00 And these dudes have these fucking quarter horse legs.

John McPhee 1:03:03 Yeah, I bet.

Narrator 1:03:03 They have, like, thin upper bodies-

John McPhee 1:03:04 (laughs)

Narrator 1:03:04 ... and these fucking giganti-legs 'cause they're just constantly doing plyometrics.

John McPhee 1:03:09 Yeah. All day.

Narrator 1:03:10 They're just constantly sprinting and going side to side and left and right, and ... Fucking crazy cardio.

John McPhee 1:03:15 Yeah.

Narrator 1:03:15 But it's never gonna sell in America if you can't have commercials.

John McPhee 1:03:18 No. Yeah. I think that's why rugby's not popular also, b-

Narrator 1:03:21 Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Maybe they just change the rules a little bit.

John McPhee 1:03:25 Right?

Narrator 1:03:25 You know? Okay, give us a little break every seven minutes.

John McPhee 1:03:27 Well, it's kinda crazy. Yeah, here's what we're saying is rugby starts and stops without a time. That's the same thing we want for, you just said-

Narrator 1:03:34 Right.

John McPhee 1:03:34 ... for MMA. (laughs)

Narrator 1:03:35 Oh, yeah.

John McPhee 1:03:36 Right?

Narrator 1:03:37 Well, that's the problem with MMA too, right? You can't have a no time limit fight because-

John McPhee 1:03:41 How you gonna get the next fight at midnight?

Narrator 1:03:43 Also-

John McPhee 1:03:44 Or 10 o'clock, or-

Narrator 1:03:44 ... dudes would kind of fight to the death. Like, if you get the best of the best today, where they're so evenly matched and they're brawling for an hour-

John McPhee 1:03:52 It could go four hours, five hours.

Narrator 1:03:54 Oh.

John McPhee 1:03:54 Like s-

Narrator 1:03:55 And, and then that would probably end your career. Like, at the end of it, you might not ever be the same again.

John McPhee 1:04:00 You'd be spent.

Narrator 1:04:00 Yeah.

John McPhee 1:04:00 You'd be spent. Like, you got one of those in you.

Narrator 1:04:02 Right. 'Cause there's a lotta guys, like, there's a fight and you could point to that fight and say, "He was never the same." Like-

John McPhee 1:04:08 Yeah.

Narrator 1:04:08 ... Tony Ferguson, Justin Gaethje. A lot of people point to that fight. Justin Gaethje battered Tony Ferguson so bad. He was, he was undefeated up until that point. Or maybe he'd lost a couple times. But he was the boogeyman. Tony Ferguson was the scariest dude in the sport. And then one bad beating and he was kind of never the same again.

John McPhee 1:04:27 Yeah.

Narrator 1:04:27 'Cause one bad beating just-

John McPhee 1:04:28 Yeah.

Narrator 1:04:29 ... changes everything.

John McPhee 1:04:30 Yeah.

Narrator 1:04:30 You just never really recover.

John McPhee 1:04:31 Yeah. Well, once you lose the mental edge, right? Like ...

Narrator 1:04:35 There's a little bit of that, but there's also, like, a bad beating to the brain, like, he got just, he got hit so many times in his head. A bad beating to the brain after a certain am- ... I mean, no matter who you are, if you're sparring and if you're fighting, you're getting hit in the head, period. And so over the course of your career, you're already accumulating a certain amount of abuse. And there's one fight that could break the camel's back.

John McPhee 1:04:59 Yeah.

Narrator 1:05:00 Like, in boxing, I always point to Meldrick Taylor, Julo Cesar Chavez. Like, Meldrick Taylor was the fucking man, won the gold medal in the Olympics, and Chavez just methodically broke him down and then stopped him in the last round of their fight. Like, with l- literally two seconds to go, Richard Steele stops the fight. And from then on, he was never the same. It just, he took so much of a beating in that fight that he was ne- never the same again.

John McPhee 1:05:23 Yeah. I think that happens with soldiers too. I've seen a lot of guys who are like, "We got mortared or rocketed," and then next deployment, guy doesn't wanna ... (laughs) You know what I mean? Like ...

Narrator 1:05:33 So it's a mental thing.

John McPhee 1:05:34 Yeah.

Narrator 1:05:34 Yeah.

John McPhee 1:05:34 I think there's, uh, there's a time where everybody says enough's enough, right?

Narrator 1:05:38 Yeah.

John McPhee 1:05:38 Like-

Narrator 1:05:38 Yeah.

John McPhee 1:05:39 ... whether you want to or not. And then once you reach that point, like, coming back from that point to-

Narrator 1:05:45 Right.

John McPhee 1:05:46 ... become that mental champion again is a fucking long road.

Narrator 1:05:49 Is there anything, like, you as a leader, when you see a guy who's maybe ...... crossed over in that way. Is there anything that you would do to try to bring them back? Or is there nothing that can be done?

John McPhee 1:06:03 That's a great question. Uh, define bring him back. Define what's wrong with him.

Narrator 1:06:08 Right. I guess a confidence thing, or just-

John McPhee 1:06:11 Yeah.

Narrator 1:06:11 ... being terrified.

John McPhee 1:06:14 Yeah.

Narrator 1:06:14 So like new fear being introduct-

John McPhee 1:06:16 Yeah.

Narrator 1:06:16 You know, a lot of guys think they're indestructible-

John McPhee 1:06:19 Yeah.

Narrator 1:06:19 ... until they're not.

John McPhee 1:06:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Narrator 1:06:20 And then all of a sudden now this is a new factor.

John McPhee 1:06:23 Yeah. Uh, I used to teach, uh, tandem jumping and bundle jumping in the military, and I don't know if you've ever seen my social media but like I'm in the sky flying and there's that huge barrel under me. Uh, I used to teach that and what would happen is if you had a bad jump, a b- you know, bundle jump, um, you would have to cut away and, uh, we called it the nightmare, right? And you