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Joe Rogan Experience #2244 - Ryan Graves

Go to https://expressvpn.com/RoganYT and find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free! Ryan Graves is a former Lt. U.S. Navy and F/A-18F pilot who was the first active duty pilot to publicly disclose regular sightings of Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. Today, Graves serves as the first Chair of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics UAP Integration & Outreach Committee, Executive Director of Americans for Safe Aerospace, and is the founder of StarSense Innovations. http://www.safeaerospace.org

Joe RoganhostRyan Gravesguest
Dec 17, 20242h 48mWatch on YouTube ↗

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  1. 0:0015:00

    (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. NA

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

    4. RG

      Hello.

    5. JR

      Good to see you again.

    6. RG

      Nice to see you.

    7. JR

      What is the latest in the world of Ryan?

    8. RG

      (laughs)

    9. JR

      (laughs) Other than the fact that you're about to have a child, which congratulations on that, but-

    10. RG

      Thank you.

    11. JR

      What, uh, we want- you wanted to talk to me about this drone situation, and I've become very concerned. I don't understand what's going on. I think there's a bunch of different narratives. Some of them are very scary. The scariest one that I've heard is that they're, the drones are looking for gamma radiation because there's a missing nuke.

    12. RG

      Yeah. Let's address that first.

    13. JR

      Please.

    14. RG

      So, there has been a lot going on. I- I- I made a- a- an X post about this yesterday-

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. RG

      ... to try to assuage some fears, so.

    17. JR

      I saw it, but I purposely didn't read it 'cause I wanted to-

    18. RG

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      I wanted to get it from you.

    20. RG

      Yeah. So, you know, I've had the, the privilege of interacting with a lot of government organizations over the past few years as I've been digging down this rabbit hole. Um, law enforcement at a federal level, DOD, executive branch, legislative branch, and some of the folks that I've come in contact worth- with, they specifically work on weapons of mass destructions. Right? So that's- that's their job. So if there's a loose nuke in the United States, among other agencies, they would be some of the people that would be sitting in a skiff for 24 hours a day trying to figure out where it is and to go get it. Right? So, um, you can imagine that would be their number one priority. Right? So I engage with these folks. I ask them, you know, "What's the sense here?" You know, people are kind of starting to panic a little bit and this message is getting out there more and more broadly. Um, and they assured me that's not the case, that there is not a loose nuke or other type of weapon of mass destruction that these objects, whatever they are, are pursuing right now. Otherwise, they would be working in a skiff non-stop to make- to make that go away, that problem go away. So, you know, that's part of why I have a- a high confidence level that this is not a response to an- a massive imminent, you know, weapons of mass destruction threat on the eastern seaboard. Uh, so I- I just wanna try to dispel that rumor right now. I've seen a lot of talk of that online, uh, and I don't... You know, although this is a, you know, I think a dangerous and- and scary situation that's going on right now, at least from that particular angle, um, that's not the indications I'm receiving.

    21. JR

      So, how would they have persuaded you? Just by saying, "That's not the case," or have they given you any information that leads to this conclusion? Like...

    22. RG

      They would be the people actively working it, essentially, right? So-

    23. JR

      And they're not.

    24. RG

      They're not working it. Right? So either the government is holding back that secret from the direct resources within the government that are responsible for finding these systems-

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. RG

      ... or they're not working the issue because there isn't an issue there to work.

    27. JR

      So the- the thing that I had heard was that it was a missing nuke from Ukraine, and if that was the case, w- they... So what- what could they do? Is- is any, is there any truth to this idea that we have the type of drone capability that we could send these things out and they would search for gamma radiation and they'd be able to find a nuke? Is that...

    28. RG

      So there are teams that respond to those types of potential emergencies, typically within the Department of Energy. Um, having, you know, potentially hundreds of drones flying around trying to identify these isn't necessarily the best way. Gamma radiation is typically well-shielded in weapons, uh, and at very high altitudes or even moderate altitudes, like we're seeing these objects, it would be pretty difficult to detect them. And the way that NIST, uh, DOE typically operates in this environment is ground-based teams searching for radiation itself. So it's not necessarily consistent with how they would do it to begin with, um, and then based off of that other information, that's what leads me to believe that's not- not the case.

    29. JR

      Well, that makes me feel better 'cause I was freaking out this weekend. (laughs)

    30. RG

      (laughs) I think a lot of people were.

  2. 15:0030:00

    Yeah. Yeah, I've, you…

    1. JR

      on people.

    2. RG

      Yeah. Yeah, I've, you know, I've heard multiple people, representative officials saying like, "Hey, government needs to step in and start being more clear, 'cause people are just gonna take matters into their own hands."

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. RG

      That's where people get hurt.

    5. JR

      Well, there's also been downed ones, right?

    6. RG

      I've heard rumors of downed ones, but I haven't-

    7. JR

      There's video footage and there's, there's people driving in their car and there, cop cars are surrounding this thing.

    8. NA

      That was a plane.

    9. JR

      It was a plane?

    10. NA

      I think that was a plane crash.

    11. JR

      Oh.

    12. RG

      Yeah, I think, if that's the one you're referring to, there happened to be a, like, a small plane crash.

    13. JR

      Can you find that one, Jamie?

    14. NA

      Yep, yep, yep.

    15. JR

      Okay. But again, this is the problem with social media, especially with someone like me who's just kind of scrolling for five minutes and going, "What the fuck?" And then, like, you know, my kids ask me something, and I gotta get out of the house. All right, let me put my phone down. You know, so I'm, I haven't done any kind of a deep dive. And I did that purposely, just to try to pick your brain. It's this one?

    16. NA

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Oh, yeah. That's definitely a plane.

    18. NA

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Is that the one? Yeah, but he made-

    20. NA

      Yeah, when they were, when they were driving by, they were like, "Look, it's a drone shot down," and-

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. NA

      But ...

    23. JR

      That might be the one that I saw. I did watch a video. Did you see the video of the plane that crashed in, uh, Texas?

    24. NA

      I don't know.

    25. JR

      Pretty crazy. I'll send you that. But it's unrelated, but the video crashed in the water.

    26. RG

      We need to get Elon Musk to have, like, a special UAP taskforce within the community knows-

    27. JR

      Elon is ... Look, he's oddly sly about this stuff. He, you know, outwardly dismisses UFOs. You know, he said, "Well, if they're there, they're very subtle." (laughs)

    28. RG

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      That, that's just (laughs) I'm like, "Okay."

    30. RG

      One might expect that, but okay.

  3. 30:0045:00

    And would this be…

    1. RG

      ... this is showing us that it's hotter than the surrounding areas right now.

    2. JR

      And would this be similar to what you would see if you saw a jet that was flying?

    3. RG

      No.

    4. JR

      No?

    5. RG

      I mean, we've seen thousands of aircraft like that.

    6. JR

      But I mean, in terms of the signature that it gives off with the temperature, or would you be able to see a visible means of propulsion that would be, uh, accentuated?

    7. RG

      Yeah. You would see the exhaust coming out of the back.

    8. JR

      Uh-huh.

    9. RG

      You'd be able to see the skin of th- of the aircraft itself. So, the sensor's not great, but it's good enough where you can break out some pretty good detail on a jet. I mean, it looks like a jet.

    10. JR

      Right. Well, this definitely doesn't look like a jet, y- you know, it kind of looks like a flying saucer, and then it turns sideways, which is really weird. Um, what, do we-

    11. RG

      And-

    12. JR

      D- Is there anything on that that shows the speed?

    13. RG

      The, on the bottom left, you see 242 knots. That's how fast the aircraft that is recording it is going. Uh, the pilots do talk about how it's going 120 knots against the wind. Um, and in my recollection, it was going at a relatively slow speed for a fight aircraft, around 100 knots or so at those speeds, uh, from looking at the radar data itself.

    14. JR

      So, as far as you know, we don't have anything that moves like that?

    15. RG

      No.

    16. JR

      And we don't have anything that gives off a signature like that?

    17. RG

      No. No.

    18. JR

      And were they able to figure out where this is going, or keep a- an eye on it, or, uh, do we have sensors that can detect this for any length of time?

    19. RG

      You would assume that the sensors on the ships themselves, if they were looking there, would be able to detect these objects, but we're not really linked into those people that are doing that on the boat. The pilots essentially took this upon themselves to go investigate this, and they reported to intel when they came back. And that's where I saw the tapes. Um, whether they, whether, like, the air traffic management guys in the, on the boat themselves then took it upon themselves to go try to detect these objects, I don't have that information. I was never in that information stream.

    20. JR

      I-

    21. RG

      But presumably, they would.

    22. JR

      Is, is there capability where ... So if a fighter jet locks in on something like that, is there an additional source of s- some sort of satellite that they can t- team into or tune into where they can give them the coordinates and say, "Hey, this is at this exact coordinate, and it's moving at this speed." Can you guys lock into that?

    23. RG

      No. Um, not within the jet itself. We can share the data amongst jets. So if you were flying out there and the aircraft that recorded that video was getting that on the radar, that information be get, would be getting sent to other jets in the area. There was a large training mission going on, and I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, was paying attention to those contacts that were, say, 50 miles away from where they were doing this flight. Uh, but it shouldn't have been just self-contained into the aircraft itself. And additionally, that information should have also been received by the ship itself, right? They should have access to that same information that's being shared.

    24. JR

      Right. That's what I was getting to. Like, can the ship itself then lock in the coordinates with a satellite, or do we have that kind of capability?

    25. RG

      We don't ... A- as pilots, we don't really get into the satellite game, if you will, you know?

    26. JR

      Right.

    27. RG

      That's kind of like a different level than how we operate. So it's, it's feasible that a ship might call in other national assets to investigate, but we operate as like a self-contained expeditionary group.

    28. JR

      Right.

    29. RG

      So I don't know if that's part of their protocol.

    30. JR

      So they wouldn't even refer to you or discuss it with you?

  4. 45:001:00:00

    Should we keep going?…

    1. NA

      so I spoke to a gentleman, uh, a few months ago who was trying to raise an alarm to the highest levels of our government, which, they had their ears closed, um, about this one particular nuclear warhead that he physically put his hands on. He physically touched this warhead that was left over from Ukraine, and he knew that that thing was headed towards the United States. Okay? Um, that is a very serious deal, and everyone knows that the United States government, this administration is pushing to get into a war with Russia. Uh, we all know that. We all feel it. We all see it. Okay? We'll back up a few years. Do y'all remember when those drones were mysteriously flying across the Interstate 70 corridor from Colorado up into Nebraska, down here into Kansas and out into Missouri? Well, it was believed that those drones were looking for radioactive material, because there had been some material that come up missing here in the United States. And they felt like it was, uh, high probability that it would- the nuclear or the radioactive material would be taken along the Interstate 70 corridor, heading east or west or south. So, I- from what we understand, they were out there trying to find this radioactive material. Now, drones, they have no reason to be in the air at night. Unless you're doing some type of ISR work, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, you know, looking for bad guys, or looking for, uh, um, a victim, a search and rescue victim, or law enforcement, or some type of military, um, project, right? There's no reason for a drone to be flying at night, really. Okay? Because they don't see shit. (laughs) So, you know, unless you have thermal optics, drones really don't see stuff. You need to do mapping during the day. If you're gonna do farming stuff, mostly do it during the day. The only reason why you would ever fly an aircraft, a- an unmanned aircraft at night is if you're looking for something, whether it be a person or trying to smell gas. We have methane gas detecting- de- detection systems, um, uh, that can- that can detect gas leaks in pipelines. You really wouldn't use thermal optics for trying to find gas leaks, just simply because the only way you're actually gonna find a gas leak with thermal optics is if the gas leak is aggressive enough that it has a difference in temperature. Because radio- uh, thermal imaging, it- it creates a digital image based off of the temperature variance. So whatever's different in temperature, it creates an image. Gas, usually gas leaks so slow-... that it goes quickly into ambient bef- you know, before you can even see it. So, we have special sensors that can detect gas leaks. We also have special sensors that can detect radioactive material. So, um, with this gentleman that I had, uh, spoken with, who was trying to raise the alarm to try to get somebody in the government to say, "Hey, we need to work together to go try to find this nuclear warhead," none of that ever happened. They knew that warhead was on its way to the United States. That's all that ever came of it. Nothing ever happened. This government did not do anything at all to help this gentleman raise the alarm and raise awareness that there is a very, um, deadly weapon on its way to the United States.

    2. RG

      Should we keep going?

    3. JR

      No. Well, go ahead, unless maybe he's got something else to say.

    4. RG

      Uh, when I was looking this up, we have six nuclear heads that we've lost, the United States has.

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. RG

      One of them's been gone for, like, 71 years or something like that.

    7. JR

      Oh, wonderful.

    8. RG

      Didn't know that. (laughs)

    9. JR

      Wonderful. Yeah. Maybe they'll find them. I mean, there should, probably a couple in the bottom of the ocean somewhere someone's gonna find.

    10. RG

      Yeah. I'm sure they're sitting there.

    11. JR

      I mean, wasn't there, like, a Russian submarine that sank and they lied to us about it and... Wasn't that, "Can neither confirm nor deny," isn't that where that came from?

    12. RG

      I'm not familiar. Is that-

    13. JR

      Yeah. That was from a Radiolab podcast. The term neither, "can neither confirm nor deny" was one of those things where they had to answer a question, but they didn't want to answer it, so they said, "We can neither confirm nor deny."

    14. RG

      That's the answer, yeah.

    15. JR

      And so that has become a way. Yeah. The Glomar response refers to a covert CIA operation where a ship named the Hughes Glomar Explorer was used to recover a sunken Soviet submarine. When questioned about the operation, the agency responded with, "Can neither confirm nor deny." Implication, when someone says, "Can neither confirm nor deny," they're essentially saying they cannot provide any information on the matter, leaving the question unanswered. So, they answered it without answering it, 'cause they were compelled to answer, and they said, "We can neither confirm nor deny."

    16. RG

      Hmm.

    17. JR

      Which is interesting 'cause, like, if you're in a Senate hearing and someone says something like that, like, like what do you-

    18. RG

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. RG

      Now I know you're being sneaky.

    21. JR

      What did he, what did you say? What did you just say? What do you mean you can neither confirm nor deny? Shut the fuck up with all those words.

    22. RG

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      You can't use all those words anymore. You're being tricky. So, I want you to tell me what you know. Say it like that, you know? Tell me what you know.

    24. RG

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      What you know.

    26. RG

      Well, I mean, watching that video, uh, uh, no, I think there's a few pieces that are still outstanding, connections that are outstanding for me. Um, a supposed US citizen physically touched a nuclear weapon that was then lost, and he, he knew exactly where it was going somehow.

    27. JR

      H- why was he there? Why was he touching it?

    28. RG

      Why was he touching it was he-

    29. JR

      Why would you touch it?

    30. RG

      Was he amongst enemies and they were carting the weapon off, he just got his fingers on it, or-

  5. 1:00:001:15:00

    Mm. …

    1. RG

      forward. It could be strategically misaligned. But if China is having the same issues with UAP that we are having, then you could imagine them putting a lot of resources into better understanding that situation in a way that we're just not equipped to do.

    2. JR

      Mm.

    3. RG

      And the fact that they, this conversation has grown more, that their advancements have been getting better, I think there is this pressure right now within the US government that if we do not further invest, somehow bring in, you know, the primary innovation makers within our economy, within the startup community, within the scientific community into this problem, if it's still just buried in a classified area-

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. RG

      ... then we're gonna get out-competed by China that is able to dump all these resources into it.

    6. JR

      Well, how do you do that, though, if you're, you're... if these people that create these things are motivated by money, right? If they're motivated by profits, if they run major corporations, like, how can you convince them to invest in something that is ultimately not gonna pay off like it would if you were investing in a consumer product?

    7. RG

      Yeah. I think it can. I mean, we have a model for that in United States with deep technology and eg- edge technology. You know, these are capabilities that, that don't fit into a normal VC's lifecycle of five or six years before you're seeing returns. It might take 10 years before you have a product, right? And there's a lot of risk that they could fail along the way. But that's, you know, that's, uh, that's where we get a lot of our major innovations from. That's where we see very exotic technology being worked on, like advanced propulsion, communication systems, energy production. And every one of these has huge potential a- added value to our economy. I mean, to the level that AI has, right? Um, so, uh, you know, there's a couple ways you can go about it. You know, you can either create a new investment cycle or, or structure that is more tolerant to the risk and more tolerant to, uh, extended time to returns, which, you know, you gotta fight mi- market forces with that. You could have the government step in, perhaps through the Office of Strategic Capital and others, to be able to support venture capitalists that are looking to make investments in these longer term technologies, uh, perhaps in concert with the National Science Foundation that does a lot of work in this area. Or you can try to structure your technologies such that they provide value to existing capabilities during the research and development process. So, what I mean by that... And, you know, this... I've been working this problem for 10 years, Joe. Like-

    8. JR

      Sounds like it.

    9. RG

      ... I've thrown my entire self into this. I've approached it, you know, with my nonprofit, Americans For Safe Aerospace. I've been working in it in the private sector, I've been collaborating with government and others. Um, and there is a path where the capabilities to better understand this topic are aligned with our defensive needs, right? If we had total situational awareness of our airspace, that's a very valuable thing to the Department of Defense, and those are contracts you can win, those are reasonable investments you can make through normal market forces. And then you keep working to be able to use those existing products in those markets to bring out technology that is related to the UAP topic, whether that be detection, perhaps propulsion, energy, things of that nature. So, you have to find these core technologies that the government wants that is also aligned with the better understanding of UAP.

    10. JR

      Now, the way you're describing this sounds like it could be done, but China's already done that. So, like, how far behind the curve are we on the implementation of this technology?

    11. RG

      Well, that... it's an unknown how far China is. You know, there's, there are some, some rumors, and I'm, I'm not even gonna mention them because they're too low confidence, but there does seem-

    12. JR

      Come on. I love a good low confidence rumor. (laughs) Just...

    13. RG

      (laughs) There does seem to be investment that's been made. There are talk that they are having the same problems and perhaps have been better motivated than we are to investigate ones that they have been able to recover.

    14. JR

      Do you know about the antigravity lady that went missing-

    15. RG

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JR

      ... and went back to China?

    17. RG

      Ning Li?

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. RG

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      What, what's your thoughts on that, that type of technology?

    21. RG

      It's interesting. You know, I, I was mentioning this out front with some of the guys earlier, there seems to be this, these interesting technologies that were once ridiculed back in the day, whether it be antigravity-

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. RG

      ... cold fusion, others.

    24. JR

      It's a good way to get rid of stuff, ridicule it.

    25. RG

      Yeah. (laughs)

    26. JR

      That's what they did with ivermectin. (laughs)

    27. RG

      I'm very familiar with that, that strategy. Uh-

    28. JR

      Lab leak.

    29. RG

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      They did it with a lot of stuff.

  6. 1:15:001:18:51

    Hmm. Well, some politicians…

    1. JR

      It's completely normalized. If I wanted to normalize the idea of us being invaded, I'd just fucking put stuff in the sky all the time, fly around with experimental aircraft, do like a- a low trajectory over a city in some new stealth bomber, freak these fucking people out, get them used to being freaked out. And then when the real ones come, it's much less of a blow.

    2. NA

      Hmm. Well, some politicians just as soon as yesterday, uh, Chuck Schumer, Robert Garcia in the House, they've started to kind of use the whole drone and/or UAP in their messaging, right?

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. NA

      They started to change their language. Did you get that photo, Jesse?

    5. JR

      Jamie.

    6. NA

      Oh, Jamie, sorry. It's, um-

    7. JR

      Pull it up, young Jesse. (laughs)

    8. NA

      (laughs) I sent it to the wrong guy, maybe that's why.

    9. JR

      All right. You were talking about Jesse before, that's why. Um, you can AirDrop it to me, that'll probably be the fastest way.

    10. NA

      Yeah, it says it's waiting. Is it the Jamie MacBook Pro?

    11. JR

      Yeah, I have two. I'm looking at both of them. I didn't get anything. You want to just text it to me and I'll send it to him?

    12. NA

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Okay. That works too. Technology, even with this fucking high-level technology that we have.

    14. NA

      They're shutting us down.

    15. JR

      They're shutting us down, bro. Yeah, I was thinking that last night. I was like, "Why does my Bluetooth keep skipping out when I'm trying to stream music?" But I realized that there were so many people connected to the Bluetooth, and if you have that Spotify thing on where you, uh, you're sharing, it's like, uh... I forget what it's called. But like a bunch of people can contribute songs, they can all, like, add to your little playlist while it's going on.

    16. NA

      Dangerous.

    17. JR

      It fucks... Yeah, it's dangerous.

    18. NA

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      All of it's dangerous. I'm- I'm like that close to getting one of them crazy de-Googled phones.

    20. NA

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      But I'm like, "Uh, how does that even work?" Uh-

    22. NA

      They had a good one. I'd get it.

    23. JR

      I think, you know, Erik Prince apparently has a good one. He's got something called the- the unplugged phone. It actually is a physical, uh, button you can switch where it deactivates the battery as well.

    24. NA

      Oh.

    25. JR

      Like separates, like a little piece of plastic goes between where the battery connects. And so you're f-... 'Cause even if you shut your phone off, they could still listen to you.

    26. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      Like, that sounds so crazy, but it is absolutely true.

    28. NA

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      And you can't take your battery out of your phone anymore. You know, it's like a convenient thing. In order to make it waterproof, sorry, your battery... And then it's also, it's like planned obsolescence. So your battery's gonna die. You're gonna need an iPhone 17, right? Come on.

    30. NA

      (laughs) Only way they can sell new ones.

Episode duration: 2:48:42

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