Joe Rogan Experience #2246 - James Fox

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      It's a very good time to have a U-expo, uh- UFO expert in.

   5. JFJames Fox0:15

      A lot has been going on.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      (laughs) This is ... It, w- you know, I had, um ... I know you ran into him. Uh, I had Ryan Graves on yesterday.

   7. JFJames Fox0:23

      Oh my God, it'll tell you the funny story-

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      Yeah.

   9. JFJames Fox0:25

      ... of how I ran into him.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       You ran into him in the lobby of the hotel, right?

   11. JFJames Fox0:27

       So the lobby told me, they were all like, "Don't use this one elevator. It's really rickety and it makes a lot of noise and it's just, it's not very reliable, and just don't use it." So I didn't. And then I was leaving 24 hours later to come down and get some coffee. And I was like, "Ah, fuck it. Let me take the rickety elevator." I was like, "They told me not to take it, but I'm gonna take it anyway." So I push the button, I'm standing there and I hear this (imitates door creaking open) . The door's open, I look, I see this shadowy figure in the corner. I'm like, "Ryan Graves, what are you doing?"

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       (laughs)

   13. JFJames Fox0:54

       He goes, "I don't know. What are you doing?"

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       (laughs)

   15. JFJames Fox0:56

       (laughs) I was like, "Um," I was like, "Are you doing what I think you're doing?" He goes, "Yeah." (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       That's hilarious.

   17. JFJames Fox1:01

       Did he tell you that? Did he tell you that?

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Yes he did, yes he did. He told me he ran into you.

   19. JFJames Fox1:04

       Oh, that's so ...

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       He didn't tell me the whole story about the rickety elevator.

   21. JFJames Fox1:06

       Yeah, yeah. He was like this shadowy figure up against the corner, like kind of just, you know. And looking at him and he's looking at me. It was really funny.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       We had a lot of ... We talked a lot of nonsense about, uh, aliens. Uh, but we also talked about the technology that he knows is state of the art when it comes to drones.

   23. JFJames Fox1:22

       Yes.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       And that some of these ones in New Jersey, they're doing things that you can't really do yet.

   25. JFJames Fox1:28

       Yes.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Yeah, which is really fascinating.

   27. JFJames Fox1:29

       Yes.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       'Cause it's like, okay-

   29. JFJames Fox1:31

       And they're the size of SUVs.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       Right. So is it ours and we somehow or another have some stuff that mainstream drone manufacturers at the highest level aren't aware of yet? Is it ours? Is it like some crazy military stuff? 'Cause if it's not and it's coming from the ocean ... Like what do you mean it's coming ... What the fuck do you-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   That's all you'd have…

   1. JFJames Fox15:00

      let's do it.

   2. NANarrator15:00

      That's all you'd have to do, is just say some bullshit like that.

   3. JFJames Fox15:01

      And then someone probably bends his ear when he gets into office and is like, "Yeah."

   4. NANarrator15:04

      A good speaker, like-

   5. JFJames Fox15:05

      About that disclosure-

   6. NANarrator15:06

      ... like a JD Vance, like a guy like that.

   7. JFJames Fox15:09

      Yeah.

   8. NANarrator15:09

      Very bright, young, energetic speaker, he could convince people he could talk to the aliens.

   9. JFJames Fox15:13

      (laughs)

   10. NANarrator15:13

       He could convince people (laughs) ... He could convince people that he can unite us all.

   11. JFJames Fox15:18

       I mean, have you, have you seen The Program?

   12. NANarrator15:21

       No, I have not.

   13. JFJames Fox15:21

       Okay, so there is-

   14. NANarrator15:23

       Explain it to everybody.

   15. JFJames Fox15:24

       Okay, so The Program, basically... It's funny, 'cause the last time I was on the show, we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Varginha, Brazil-

   16. NANarrator15:33

       Yes.

   17. JFJames Fox15:33

       ... in 1996.

   18. NANarrator15:34

       And your documentary on it, which is f-

   19. JFJames Fox15:36

       Yeah, Moment of Contact.

   20. NANarrator15:37

       Amazing. Amazing documentary.

   21. JFJames Fox15:38

       And so we're talking about that and I, I, I came off the heels of doing The Phenomenon, which touched a little bit on the potential crash retrieval program. But then it was like, uh, then it was the crash retrieval over in Varginha, Brazil. And then, um, I got hyperfocused on that. And then I had, sort of it was a personal journey for me was, okay, the elected officials, what do they know and when did they know it? Do we have a crash retrieval program? That's what I set out to do. And then three months after I was on your show, in April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grusch, testifies under oath that there is a crash retrieval program-

   22. NANarrator16:16

       (sighs)

   23. JFJames Fox16:16

       ... and that government does have definitive proof that we're not alone. So, he kind of opened the door for me. And a lot had happened since the release of the, of The Phenomenon and Moment of Contact. There was all this legislation, there was the first congressional hearing, there was, um, uh, behind closed doors meetings with a number of, of intel officers and witnesses. And, um, and then you had the second congressional hearing, which was David Grusch, which was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure you saw that.

   24. NANarrator16:45

       Yeah.

   25. JFJames Fox16:45

       Right? And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing, which I actually, funny enough, got to attend. So, it was the first time in my 30 years investigating I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of The Phenomenon as well as there's a crash retrieval program. I mean, people have to understand that... Feel like maybe this, things aren't happening fast enough. Just a couple years ago, they didn't even admit that The Phenomenon is real. Now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program. So, drip, drip, drip, things are happening, they're not putting the genie back in the bottle. Do you wonder at all that you're being mind-fucked? Do you wonder at all that this is a massive psyop and this is all just to cover up some very advanced American- I think- ... weapons technology? ... I think it's a very good question, and here's why I don't believe that. Because I have done 30 years of field research, right? So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia, I've been to Australia, and Africa, and South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, United States. And I've investigated close encounters of the third kind. And I'm gonna ask your audience, don't take it from me.... but, but the United States Air Force investigated and categorized close encounters of the first, second, and third kind, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:03

       Right.

   27. JFJames Fox18:03

       During their official capacity, Project Blue- Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Bluebook-

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:06

       Great fucking movie, by the way. If you haven't seen it, folks, Close Encounters-

   29. JFJames Fox18:10

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:10

       ... of the Third Kind, probably the best alien invasion movie of all time.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Oh, no. …

   1. JFJames Fox30:00

      and round, and I can't quite tell how close my drone is to them.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      Oh, no.

   3. JFJames Fox30:04

      So I'm paying really good attention, and I'm getting close to these big turbines. And all of a sudden, my phone's ringing, and it's you. (laughs) I'm like, "Oh my God. I can't not answer this. I gotta answer." So I answered it (laughs) while my drone was up there.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:16

      Oh, no.

   5. JFJames Fox30:17

      And we talked briefly, and you said, "Hey, can you get me in touch with, with David Grusch?" I said, "Yeah, I got a guy that can put you in touch with him," and that was Jason Sands. And I guess you and Jason Sands talked about this alleged encounter in 1994 with this entity, alien, whatever you wanna call him-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:30

      Yes.

   7. JFJames Fox30:30

      ... in the desert.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:31

      Yes.

   9. JFJames Fox30:32

      So that was a crazy story.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       Crazy story.

   11. JFJames Fox30:34

       But, but in any case, so when you watch the movie in the program, you'll see the drone flying dangerously close to these... And that's a funny little inside thing that I was-

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       So it didn't crash?

   13. JFJames Fox30:42

       ... I was on the phone. It didn't crash.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:44

       Okay.

   15. JFJames Fox30:44

       But I was on the phone with you when it happened. But when you watch the footage, it's like, "Wow, that's really close."

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       Is that guy public with that story?

   17. JFJames Fox30:50

       He... Well, so-

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       'Cause otherwise I would discuss it.

   19. JFJames Fox30:53

       Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       'Cause it sounded so nutty.

   21. JFJames Fox30:55

       No, no. Yeah. Okay, so here's what happened. This, this is funny because, um, when I was in Washington DC with Mellon and, and this gentleman, uh, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now, and Mellon looked at me and he goes, "This guy's story is pretty wild." I was like, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Really wild." And we're sitting down having dinner, and Chris Mellon orders, he orders a, uh, uh, he orders a drink. He had, he had a, um, tequila, so whatever. Anyway, and we were all having dinner, and, and, uh, Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994. And it's one of the craziest stories, and I've been doing this for 30 years, and this story is nuts, okay? You remember.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:35

       Oh, yeah.

   23. JFJames Fox31:36

       So-

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       Yeah. He... I went like this to my phone when he was telling it, I went like this one.

   25. JFJames Fox31:39

       Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me too. So, uh, I'll get-

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       It was one of those, "Wait, wait."

   27. JFJames Fox31:44

       No.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       "What the fuck did you just say?"

   29. JFJames Fox31:46

       In- Insane. Okay.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       Yeah. Tell everybody what, what he said.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Really? …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      skunk.

   2. JFJames Fox45:01

      Really?

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      Yes.

   4. JFJames Fox45:01

      Oh my God.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:02

      So think about that. So-

   6. JFJames Fox45:04

      So-

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      ... if a skunk gets hit by a car, like a mile away, you can smell it. Have you ever driven your car-

   8. JFJames Fox45:10

      Yes, yes.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      I don't know if it's a mile, but-

   10. JFJames Fox45:11

       I could drive over it and then my car smells like it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       Yeah, if you're in the n- but if you're in the neighborhood where a skunk got something, you could smell it.

   12. JFJames Fox45:17

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:18

       For some strange reason, it permeates. It like, it carries more than any other smell. With dogs, that's how they smell everything. They're like, "Oh, Roscoe's home." You know like they can smell-

   14. JFJames Fox45:28

       Uh-huh.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:28

       ... things that you can't even imagine they could smell, especially like a bloodhound. And then a bear can smell like... What is a bear's like ability to smell above a bloodhound? It's some, something, something crazy. My friend was, uh-

   16. JFJames Fox45:42

       Sharks in the, in the ocean can sense blood from miles away, right?

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:45

       Miles. Miles.

   18. JFJames Fox45:45

       It's incredible.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:46

       Incredible. Insane. Miles away. They can smell blood miles away. (laughs)

   20. JFJames Fox45:51

       God, something... I, I remember-

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       Look at this. 300 times... Look at this. This is crazy.

   22. JFJames Fox45:56

       Wow, bears-

   23. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       Bears have the best sense of smell of any animal on earth. For example, average dog's sense of smell is 100 times better than a human's. A bloodhound's is 300 times better. A bear's sense of smell is seven times than a bloodhound's, or 2,100 times better than a human's.

   24. JFJames Fox46:12

       (Whistling)

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       Unbelievable.

   26. JFJames Fox46:13

       That's why they say when you go camping, put your food up in a tree or something, right?

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:16

       Oh, 100%, you have to.

   28. JFJames Fox46:17

       Yeah, you can't have it-

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:18

       Yeah.

   30. JFJames Fox46:18

       ... in the tent at all.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:07:08

   Ah. …

   1. JFJames Fox1:00:00

      film footage. Right? And, uh...And they're gonna go public with their story. Two witnesses, broad daylight, a- a- a UFO, points of reference, with a military jet flying around, five or six prints? That's pretty solid evidence, right? So, uh, the local newspaper was like, uh, they're about to go public with it. Print- print the story, and they were like, "Well, we need a statement from the RAF." So they contact the press officer, Craig Lindsay, and they were like, "Hey, what do you make of this UFO these guys took?" And the guy, C- Craig Lindsay goes, "I don't know what you're talking about. I- I haven't seen the picture." They're like, "You haven't seen it? Well, let me send you a print." This is the new- the newspaper. Sends him a print, big- big print like this. It was the one you see today, and uh, he's like, "Holy shit. The hell is this?" He's the RAF Press Officer, Craig Lindsay, and he's like a ... So he starts getting in touch with the MOD and he goes out and he- he investigates this, go talk to the witnesses, talk to the witnesses and they were telling him. And he goes, well, they tell him what happened and he goes, "Well what kind of noise did it make?" And they said, "It didn't make any noise." No, he goes, "No noise? That's impossible." You know, an object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time, we're talking 34 years ago, didn't make any noise? And uh, the- the witness said no. So he was like, "Holy sh- this is crazy." So he takes a color Xeroxing machine and he sends it to the MOD in London and he says, uh, "Hey there's a case that you might wanna ch- you know, you might wanna look into and here's a Xerox." Which is really crappy, it's just a- it's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine over to MOD. He said he went from the office where the Xerox machine was, and before he can get back to his office his phone was ringing off the hook, MOD. And the MOD basically stepped in, took over the- the investigation. They said, "You can step down," to Craig Lindsay. He steps down, he keeps the print, right? He steps down, they take over, witness is gone, five or six prints gone, story killed, right? So 30 o- a- and we'd rumored about it because Nick Pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called, um, Open Skies, Closed Minds. And then I talked to him about it in late- late 90s, then I talked to him about it again in the early 2000s and I was like, "Nick," especially in 2007, I was like, "Tell me about this photograph." And he's like, "Oh it was incredible. We had a big poster of it on the wall at the MOD and da da da." And I was like, "Well where is it?" He goes, "Well I don't know. I- I stepped down. I'm no longer at the- at the UFO desk." And I said, "Well they didn't just throw that away. Why don't you get in touch with the people that were there and find out?" He's like, "Uh, you know James, I can't just make those inquiries." They- we- we killed the story. It was like, you know, so I was incredibly frustrated so- so discretely for over a 20 year period I was making inquiries 'cause I don't like letting things go, right? It was like this picture exists and bloody hell let's get this one out there, but the story went dark. So David Clarke found Craig Lindsay, and the way he found Craig Lindsay, the guy that kept one of the prints, is that he got a- he got a- a- a- a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it. And one of the things it said was, 19- it was 1990 and they said, "RAF press officer in Scotland," blacked out, you know, said that blah blah blah blah blah and he's like, "Huh. (mouth sputtering) Who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland? Craig Lindsay." Boom, contacts Craig Lindsay.

   2. NANarrator1:03:22

      Ah.

   3. JFJames Fox1:03:22

      They started communication going and then after like-

   4. NANarrator1:03:25

      So much for redaction.

   5. JFJames Fox1:03:27

      Yeah, so much for redactions, right? And so this whole dialogue starts going and they're, you know, developing a ... and- and then, um, he goes, "Well gosh, I might- I guess I might have one." Turns out he- he ended up keeping one of those prints which he had and that story broke probably two years ago. David Clarke, again, I can't thank you enough, you deserve accolades for this. And so I flew to England, I met with David Clarke and his crew, the people that did the analysis work, then I went up to Scotland, I met with Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, gave me the first and only on-camera interview about it, what astonished him about it, the analysis work they did on it, what the witnesses said. But we didn't have the witnesses, the people that took the photograph. We didn't have them, but I was gonna report on this anyway just because wow, this is the picture that we've all been waiting for. This picture's phenomenal. But if you don't have provenance and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI, it could be, right? It could be a hoax, some people call it a reflection. Not a reflection, not a hoax. So I'm ending production of the program and I get a text from David Clarke and he goes, "Something big's about to happen." And I said, "What?" He goes, "Just sit tight. I can't go public right now but something big's gonna happen."

   6. NANarrator1:04:37

      (sniffs)

   7. JFJames Fox1:04:37

      "There's- there's a new development." And this is just-

   8. NANarrator1:04:39

      I hate teases.

   9. JFJames Fox1:04:39

      Well I'm coming out with it, I promise. (laughs) So-

   10. NANarrator1:04:42

       But he teased you.

   11. JFJames Fox1:04:42

       He did tease me.

   12. NANarrator1:04:43

       I hate it.

   13. JFJames Fox1:04:43

       He did tease me but I was like, "Well I'm almost done with the movie and if this is something I include in the movie about the case, please let me know." So long story short, this guy Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph. And Richard Greaves, uh, came forward on print, but I contacted David Clarke and I was like, "Hey can this- can I- can you get me an interview with this guy?" So, uh, he kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off and then finally I was like I didn't wanna be ... I wanted to be persistent but I didn't wanna annoy the guy to the point where he's gonna be like, "Hey, you know what? Fuck you." Like-

   14. NANarrator1:05:20

       Right.

   15. JFJames Fox1:05:20

       ... you're- you're being annoying.

   16. NANarrator1:05:22

       Yeah. Yeah.

   17. JFJames Fox1:05:22

       You know? But I- I got it right up to that point, right? When I was like, ah, I was wrapping the movie. The movie's done and I wanna get this movie out 'cause all the people that participated wanted it out. And then I finally send him one final text and I was like, "Look, I'm really sorry to pester you and I know you're probably really busy and I really appreciate the fact that you even said that you'll meet with me but- that you'll give me an interview." And then probably about 10:00 that night when I'm in the edit room buttoning the film up and all of a sudden I get a phone call and he's like, "I've just come out the pub and I'm ready to go." I was like, "Okay. Grab a camera. Roll it. Let's record this." And he reveals that he knew the- the witnesses, he worked with them in the kitchen, he gave all the specifics, he provided their names and then he said that two or three nights after-... two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel, early evening, pissing rain. He said a car rolled up. There were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back. They roll up, they come out. They say, "Cigarette break's over." They pull the two witnesses aside, and they grill him. And you gotta hear it directly from the horse's mouth, Richard Greves said that when they were all... The people that were not involved with the incident were told to go back inside the hotel, which they did, but they looked through the window and they saw, in the pissing rain... He said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain, and that these guys, uh, they came back inside and they were white as a... He said, he, he, he literally goes, um, "They, uh, they came back inside and they were white as a fucking ghost." And, uh, which we all got a good laugh out of, but, uh... And then, they started drinking heavily and within a couple of weeks, they vanished without a trace and they've been gone ever since. So we report on this. And yeah, that's a, that's a repli-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:07:06

       Okay.

   19. JFJames Fox1:07:06

       ... that's a replica-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:07:07

       I was gonna say, it's way too clear.

   21. JFJames Fox1:07:08

       ... that was-

Episode duration: 2:43:57