Joe Rogan Experience #2246 - James Fox

1. 0:00 – 0:12

   Intro

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

2. 0:12 – 5:08

   UAP “drone wave” begins: Ryan Graves, SUV-sized craft, and ocean origins

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      It's a very good time to have a U-expo, uh- UFO expert in.

   2. JFJames Fox0:15

      A lot has been going on.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      (laughs) This is ... It, w- you know, I had, um ... I know you ran into him. Uh, I had Ryan Graves on yesterday.

   4. JFJames Fox0:23

      Oh my God, it'll tell you the funny story-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      Yeah.

   6. JFJames Fox0:25

      ... of how I ran into him.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      You ran into him in the lobby of the hotel, right?

   8. JFJames Fox0:27

      So the lobby told me, they were all like, "Don't use this one elevator. It's really rickety and it makes a lot of noise and it's just, it's not very reliable, and just don't use it." So I didn't. And then I was leaving 24 hours later to come down and get some coffee. And I was like, "Ah, fuck it. Let me take the rickety elevator." I was like, "They told me not to take it, but I'm gonna take it anyway." So I push the button, I'm standing there and I hear this (imitates door creaking open) . The door's open, I look, I see this shadowy figure in the corner. I'm like, "Ryan Graves, what are you doing?"

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:54

      (laughs)

   10. JFJames Fox0:54

       He goes, "I don't know. What are you doing?"

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       (laughs)

   12. JFJames Fox0:56

       (laughs) I was like, "Um," I was like, "Are you doing what I think you're doing?" He goes, "Yeah." (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       That's hilarious.

   14. JFJames Fox1:01

       Did he tell you that? Did he tell you that?

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Yes he did, yes he did. He told me he ran into you.

   16. JFJames Fox1:04

       Oh, that's so ...

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       He didn't tell me the whole story about the rickety elevator.

   18. JFJames Fox1:06

       Yeah, yeah. He was like this shadowy figure up against the corner, like kind of just, you know. And looking at him and he's looking at me. It was really funny.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:13

       We had a lot of ... We talked a lot of nonsense about, uh, aliens. Uh, but we also talked about the technology that he knows is state of the art when it comes to drones.

   20. JFJames Fox1:22

       Yes.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       And that some of these ones in New Jersey, they're doing things that you can't really do yet.

   22. JFJames Fox1:28

       Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Yeah, which is really fascinating.

   24. JFJames Fox1:29

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       'Cause it's like, okay-

   26. JFJames Fox1:31

       And they're the size of SUVs.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       Right. So is it ours and we somehow or another have some stuff that mainstream drone manufacturers at the highest level aren't aware of yet? Is it ours? Is it like some crazy military stuff? 'Cause if it's not and it's coming from the ocean ... Like what do you mean it's coming ... What the fuck do you-

   28. JFJames Fox1:51

       Fif- fif- 50 of them.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       What do you mean? What do you mean 50 suburban-sized (laughs) -

   30. JFJames Fox1:58

       So check this out. This is, this is really-
3. 5:08 – 6:43

   Why officials say “drones” and “UAP”: language, fear, and public reaction

   1. JFJames Fox5:08

      Guard and police department are reporting that truly remain a mystery." And then you had Schumer at a press conference, just like it was yesterday, and there he's going, he said, "We don't know what they are. We don't know what they are." And the guy goes, "Yeah, so it's a UAP." He goes, "Well, they're drones." He goes, "Well, you wrote the legislation. It's a UAP. It's unidentified anomalous phenomenon. Why don't you just use UAP?" I think they're using the word drone because UAP is almost too scary, like someone's got a ... invasion's happening.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:32

      That's what you ... UAP is unidentified anomalous phenomenon?

   3. JFJames Fox5:37

      Yeah. Yeah, so it-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:38

      So it couldn't that be kind of anything? It doesn't even mean flying.

   5. JFJames Fox5:40

      Totally. Well, that's the thing, because it used to be unidentified aerial ... Well, it was a UFO.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:44

      Right.

   7. JFJames Fox5:44

      Unidentified flying object.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:45

      Right.

   9. JFJames Fox5:45

      Then it was UAP, unidentified aerial phenomenon, but then they're coming out of the water, right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:51

       Yeah, I feel like this is nonsense.

   11. JFJames Fox5:51

       So they said anomalous.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:52

       Why don't they just keep using UFO?

   13. JFJames Fox5:54

       Because it has ... 'Cause people associate UFO with otherworldly and they, they wanted to take that ... Remove that baggage and make it a little less scary. That's my personal opinion.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:03

       I kind of get that, but also it's just un- unidentified flying object. If we find out what it is, then it becomes an identified flying object. It doesn't necessarily mean it's alien.

   15. JFJames Fox6:14

       True, but-

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:14

       Right? Like think, think of the stealth bombers.

   17. JFJames Fox6:15

       People would probably be jumping, jumping out of their windows right now if they said UFOs were invading the East Coast. You remember World of World back in ...

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:22

       Right, that's true.

   19. JFJames Fox6:22

       People were like jumping out of their windows. (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan6:25

       That's true. That's a good point. That's actually a very good point.

   21. JFJames Fox6:26

       So I think they toned it down. I think they're using the word drone even though they're unidentified just because of the fear factor. I think the fear factor is real.

   22. JRJoe Rogan6:33

       Yeah.I- I can't help but cringe when I hear that word.

   23. JFJames Fox6:36

       Oh, sorry.

   24. JRJoe Rogan6:37

       (laughs)

   25. JFJames Fox6:37

       I didn't ... The- the- the fear element.

   26. JRJoe Rogan6:39

       It's so funny.

   27. JFJames Fox6:40

       Sorry.

   28. JRJoe Rogan6:40

       It's just too- it was too much of a part of my life.

   29. JFJames Fox6:42

       Too close to home.

4. 6:43 – 7:21

   When it started and what’s official: mid-November and the uncertainty gap

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:43

      Um, so when did they start? Like, what was, uh ... When was it acknowledged that this was an issue that was reoccurring recently? Like, you know, o- obviously there's always been something in the sky.

   2. JFJames Fox6:54

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:54

      People have always seen things. Who knows what they are, whether or not they're ... You know, a lot of people see Starlink and they think it's UFOs, right?

   4. JFJames Fox6:59

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Of course.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:00

      But when did this drone thing that we're currently experiencing basically every day, when did it start?

   6. JFJames Fox7:06

      Couple weeks ago. Maybe a mon-

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:08

      Just- just a few weeks ago?

   8. JFJames Fox7:08

      Maybe a few mon- maybe a month ago. That's when I started really hearing about it. But-

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:11

      Jamie, is there like, um-

   10. JFJames Fox7:13

       I have-

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:13

       ... any sort of official answer to that?

   12. JFJames Fox7:16

       I have something that-

   13. NANarrator7:17

       20th, 19th, something like that.

   14. JFJames Fox7:19

       Is-

   15. NANarrator7:19

       Mid-nov- mid-November.

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       Mid-November?

   17. JFJames Fox7:21

       I-

5. 7:21 – 8:24

   Sponsor break (Gopuff)

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:21

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6. 8:24 – 12:23

   Vandenberg ‘Red Square’ and massive base incursions (2003–2005)

   1. JFJames Fox8:24

      I have something that, uh ... This is a, about an air base in Vandenberg Air Force Base in 2003, and this is not an anonymous, but this is about incursions over ... Listen to this. I promised this individual that I met at Soul Conference. He's a witness. He's a military guy. "My name is Jeffrey Nucitelli. I served 16 years in the United States Air Force as a technical sergeant and a military police officer. In October 2003, my coworkers and I witnessed a series of extraordinary UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The initial event is known as the Vandenberg Red Square, and it was first mentioned during the historic UAP hearing, UAP hearing held in 2023. The case involved Boeing contractors who witnessed a huge red square-shaped object roughly the size of a football field hovering over a missile defense system. The object was silent and had no visible means of propulsion. The contractors watched in amazement as the massive object slowly drifted east and vanished over the hills. I retained official Air Force records of the event, including the blotter form entry, which includes the names and contact information of all the witnesses and provided it to select members of Congress, AARO, and the FBI." AARO's the new UAP task force, um, All-domain Anomalous Resolution Office. "After the initial event, several other UAP incursions took place at Vandenberg. I was on duty during many of the encounters, and I investigated the incidents as they unfolded." Now remember, this is not anonymous reporting here. "They include a football f- football field-sized craft that terrified security guards as it silently hovered over a bunch ... a launch facility be- before flying off at an unbelievable rate of speed, a brightly illuminated silent object that landed on the base flight line before accelerating s- instantaneously and disappearing into space, a huge triangle-shaped craft larger than a C-130 that hovered 50 feet over a police officer before it drifted slowly over the base, a blue-white liquid orb roughly the size of his house that hovered over his house on the base. The objects made no sound and had zero obvious means of propulsion." And he says, "My experiences with UAP were awe-inspiring, exciting, and terrifying. I don't know why UAP are flying over our bases and our neighborhoods, but I do know the UAP phenomenon is of the utmost importance to all of humanity. I currently have five other military witnesses to the Vandenberg incursions that are all willing to testify tomorrow under oath that these statements are true. We need answers to this mystery and better government transparency. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story. Former United States Air Force Technical Sergeant and witness, Jeff Nucitelli."

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:25

      Whoa.

   3. JFJames Fox11:26

      Crazy, right? I mean, we're talking objects-

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:28

      That's bananas.

   5. JFJames Fox11:28

      ... the size of a football field.

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:29

      That's bananas. And then they take off in- insanely fast, just like the Tic Tac.

   7. JFJames Fox11:35

      Straight up into space.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:36

      So, this was at ... What- what was the exact date of this?

   9. JFJames Fox11:39

      This was 2003. There was a number of incursions during that year, up all the way to 2005. And he has the names, and they submitted it to the new head of AARO.

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:48

       That's interesting, 'cause that- that coincides with the Tic Tac.

   11. JFJames Fox11:51

       It does coincide with the Tic Tac.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:51

       I wonder if there's like, you know, vacation season.

   13. JFJames Fox11:55

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       You know? (laughs) It's like every few years.

   15. JFJames Fox11:58

       Let's go check out what those guys are up to.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:59

       You- you know what I mean? Maybe it's like a real pain in the ass to get here. Maybe it's one of those things like you can go to Australia, but it's ... Dude, it's a pain in the ass.

   17. JFJames Fox12:06

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:06

       It's 16 fucking hours on a plane. It's a long flight.

   19. JFJames Fox12:09

       Oh my gosh.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:10

       You know what I mean?

   21. JFJames Fox12:10

       I went to South Africa one time, and that was like 22 hours.

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:13

       Yeah.

   23. JFJames Fox12:13

       I was like, "The plane's gonna run out of gas."

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:15

       That's exactly what I'm saying.

   25. JFJames Fox12:16

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:16

       It's like one of those things. It's like you can do it, but it's a pain in the ass. So, maybe they only travel to Earth every now and again.

7. 12:23 – 15:18

   Why secrecy persists: credibility, defense posture, and political survival

   1. JFJames Fox12:23

      How could these incursions have been taking place and like, here we are 20 years later, and we're only now really starting to talk about them?

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:30

      I think ...

   3. JFJames Fox12:31

      ... the reason being is if you don't understand it and you can't protect people from it, because it's so beyond our capabilities, that if just describing it accurately l- removes all confidence that our government has everything under control. That's one, one reason why. And also, if you have no answers, you don't know what the hell it is. Like, if-

   4. NANarrator12:49

      That's a very good point, yes.

   5. JFJames Fox12:50

      ... if you don't know what the hell it is, what are you even gonna say? "Hey, there's something that came. We don't know what the fuck it is. It's as big as a football field-"

   6. NANarrator12:56

      Yeah.

   7. JFJames Fox12:56

      "... shot off into the sky. We have no idea." Joe Rogan- They'd, they'd be like, "What do you mean, we, we have no idea?"

   8. NANarrator13:00

      Yeah.

   9. JFJames Fox13:00

      "Hire someone who understands this."

   10. NANarrator13:02

       That's-

   11. JFJames Fox13:02

       And then, they'd be like-

   12. NANarrator13:03

       That's exactly-

   13. JFJames Fox13:03

       ..." Fire him, get him out of office."

   14. NANarrator13:05

       I remember, like 20 years ago, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, totally naïve, still bri- I mean, still, still naïve. But I was meeting with a general, and I said, "God, it'd be so amazing. You know, this story is, like, s- so unifying, and we ha- had this Kumbaya moment, and we discovery that, you know, we're not alone in the universe, and wouldn't that be amazing? And blah, blah, blah, the implications for all of humanity." And he sat there almost chuckling at me.

   15. JFJames Fox13:29

       (laughs)

   16. NANarrator13:30

       And he goes... He looked at me and he goes, "You, you got it all wrong, man. You don't... You gotta see this through our lens." And I was like, "Through your lens?" He goes, "Yeah, the military's perspective." I was like, "Okay, tell me." And I never thought about this before, you just mentioned it. He goes, "Okay, imagine this scenario. We sit there and we say, 'You know, my fellow Americans, it has been-"

   17. JFJames Fox13:50

       (laughs)

   18. NANarrator13:50

       "... brought to our attention that there are craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity in our airspace. They exhibit a technology that's lightyears advanced from anything that we have. We don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want. Shall they turn to be hostile, we have no visible means of defense against them.'"

   19. JFJames Fox14:06

       (laughs)

   20. NANarrator14:06

       "Thank you and goodnight."

   21. JFJames Fox14:07

       (laughs) You're fired.

   22. NANarrator14:09

       You're fired.

   23. JFJames Fox14:09

       You're fired. And, and, and he'll be like, "Aah!"

   24. NANarrator14:11

       And someone like Trump will come along, "I'll help make a deal with the aliens."

   25. JFJames Fox14:14

       Yeah, but-

   26. NANarrator14:15

       (laughs)

   27. JFJames Fox14:15

       ... do, do you see that predicament?

   28. NANarrator14:16

       Yeah.

   29. JFJames Fox14:16

       Like people always go, "Why the secrecy?" Duh.

   30. NANarrator14:19

       Yeah, you have to have secrecy because you gotta imagine the job of a politician in general, right? Like, you have to pretend that you're gonna be able to handle situations that you well know you're not gonna be able to handle.
8. 15:18 – 30:48

   James Fox’s new documentary: what “The Program” covers and why now

   1. JFJames Fox15:18

      I mean, have you, have you seen The Program?

   2. NANarrator15:21

      No, I have not.

   3. JFJames Fox15:21

      Okay, so there is-

   4. NANarrator15:23

      Explain it to everybody.

   5. JFJames Fox15:24

      Okay, so The Program, basically... It's funny, 'cause the last time I was on the show, we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Varginha, Brazil-

   6. NANarrator15:33

      Yes.

   7. JFJames Fox15:33

      ... in 1996.

   8. NANarrator15:34

      And your documentary on it, which is f-

   9. JFJames Fox15:36

      Yeah, Moment of Contact.

   10. NANarrator15:37

       Amazing. Amazing documentary.

   11. JFJames Fox15:38

       And so we're talking about that and I, I, I came off the heels of doing The Phenomenon, which touched a little bit on the potential crash retrieval program. But then it was like, uh, then it was the crash retrieval over in Varginha, Brazil. And then, um, I got hyperfocused on that. And then I had, sort of it was a personal journey for me was, okay, the elected officials, what do they know and when did they know it? Do we have a crash retrieval program? That's what I set out to do. And then three months after I was on your show, in April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grusch, testifies under oath that there is a crash retrieval program-

   12. NANarrator16:16

       (sighs)

   13. JFJames Fox16:16

       ... and that government does have definitive proof that we're not alone. So, he kind of opened the door for me. And a lot had happened since the release of the, of The Phenomenon and Moment of Contact. There was all this legislation, there was the first congressional hearing, there was, um, uh, behind closed doors meetings with a number of, of intel officers and witnesses. And, um, and then you had the second congressional hearing, which was David Grusch, which was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure you saw that.

   14. NANarrator16:45

       Yeah.

   15. JFJames Fox16:45

       Right? And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing, which I actually, funny enough, got to attend. So, it was the first time in my 30 years investigating I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of The Phenomenon as well as there's a crash retrieval program. I mean, people have to understand that... Feel like maybe this, things aren't happening fast enough. Just a couple years ago, they didn't even admit that The Phenomenon is real. Now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program. So, drip, drip, drip, things are happening, they're not putting the genie back in the bottle. Do you wonder at all that you're being mind-fucked? Do you wonder at all that this is a massive psyop and this is all just to cover up some very advanced American- I think- ... weapons technology? ... I think it's a very good question, and here's why I don't believe that. Because I have done 30 years of field research, right? So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia, I've been to Australia, and Africa, and South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, United States. And I've investigated close encounters of the third kind. And I'm gonna ask your audience, don't take it from me.... but, but the United States Air Force investigated and categorized close encounters of the first, second, and third kind, right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan18:03

       Right.

   17. JFJames Fox18:03

       During their official capacity, Project Blue- Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Bluebook-

   18. JRJoe Rogan18:06

       Great fucking movie, by the way. If you haven't seen it, folks, Close Encounters-

   19. JFJames Fox18:10

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:10

       ... of the Third Kind, probably the best alien invasion movie of all time.

   21. JFJames Fox18:14

       Dr. Hynek has a cameo appearance in that film. Did you know that?

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:17

       I had heard that.

   23. JFJames Fox18:18

       Yeah, so-

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:18

       I don't remember who he was though, but wasn't-

   25. JFJames Fox18:20

       Dr.-

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:20

       ... the French guy, didn't he-

   27. JFJames Fox18:21

       Yeah, Jacques Vallée.

   28. JRJoe Rogan18:22

       He's supposed to be Jacques Vallée.

   29. JFJames Fox18:23

       Jacques Vallée has a cameo... Well, there's a guy acting his part, but actually, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who is the scientific advisor to Project Bluebook all those years for the Air Force, actually has a cameo appearance smoking a cigar during the encounter. And-

   30. JRJoe Rogan18:36

       That's inc-... Oh, that's right.
9. 30:48 – 41:56

   Nellis Test Range 1994: leaked footage and Jason Sands’ close-encounter claim

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:48

      Is that guy public with that story?

   2. JFJames Fox30:50

      He... Well, so-

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      'Cause otherwise I would discuss it.

   4. JFJames Fox30:53

      Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:54

      'Cause it sounded so nutty.

   6. JFJames Fox30:55

      No, no. Yeah. Okay, so here's what happened. This, this is funny because, um, when I was in Washington DC with Mellon and, and this gentleman, uh, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now, and Mellon looked at me and he goes, "This guy's story is pretty wild." I was like, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Really wild." And we're sitting down having dinner, and Chris Mellon orders, he orders a, uh, uh, he orders a drink. He had, he had a, um, tequila, so whatever. Anyway, and we were all having dinner, and, and, uh, Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994. And it's one of the craziest stories, and I've been doing this for 30 years, and this story is nuts, okay? You remember.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:35

      Oh, yeah.

   8. JFJames Fox31:36

      So-

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:36

      Yeah. He... I went like this to my phone when he was telling it, I went like this one.

   10. JFJames Fox31:39

       Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me too. So, uh, I'll get-

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       It was one of those, "Wait, wait."

   12. JFJames Fox31:44

       No.

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       "What the fuck did you just say?"

   14. JFJames Fox31:46

       In- Insane. Okay.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       Yeah. Tell everybody what, what he said.

   16. JFJames Fox31:49

       I'll, I'll, I'll, I will. I'll get to that in one second. This is the reason why I can-

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:51

       Don't cheat, son.

   18. JFJames Fox31:52

       Well, no, this is the reason why I can discuss it publicly.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:54

       (laughs)

   20. JFJames Fox31:54

       I know. The reason why I can discuss it publicly is because he was gonna appear anonymously in the movie. And I was debating on exactly how to go about doing this because I was torn, because you got a statement from an individual, you don't have his identity, but, hey, uh, I was in DC, I put the whole thing down, and I said, "Look, if anything..." He was worried about his security. He was a whistleblower. He'd al- already testified to a number of, of, um, Senate Intel committees, Senate Armed Service Committee, and, um-

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:20

       All about the UFO phenomena?

   22. JFJames Fox32:21

       Yeah, about the UFO phenomena. They've, they're part of the UFO, uh, UAP task force. They found him, and they, he was giving them information and-

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:28

       Right.

   24. JFJames Fox32:28

       ... reporting on things. And, um, so, uh, he l- he goes, "I'm really fearful. I don't know if this witness protection program is gonna be that helpful. I'm just, I'm worried." I said, "Look, if you're concerned about this story getting out or not getting out, if you want, I'm here. You can come to our studio and we could film you on camera. And if anything happens to you, it could be released, and it could be a little insurance policy for yourself." He goes, "That sounds great. Let's do it." So I did a whole film about it. And then I'm periodically posting clips, or, or just still frames and updates on the movie as I'm making it, as I do on social media. And I posted this one scene, and it had a clipboard on, in the scene. And on that clipboard, if you zoomed right in, it had his name. So I posted the... Uh, by accident, I posted the damn thing, and, um, my phone starts blowing up 10 minutes later. "You just revealed this, this guy. What are you doing?"

   25. JRJoe Rogan33:13

       How dare you, James Fox.

   26. JFJames Fox33:13

       "Take it down, take it down, take it down." Too late. Too late. So it was out there, and he's getting all kinds of heat. So as a result of it, I'm giving the truncated version, he basically had to go through the DOPSR process, which is basically pre-publication of authorization of what you can and cannot say. Excuse me. So he basically could talk about a number of cases that were in the film. We had to blurp out one particular word which is in the movie. It's blurred out. We had to do that. That was, that was DOPSR. So it was the winter of 1994. There was, uh, a y- unidentified flying object that was picked up on the base.

   27. JRJoe Rogan33:55

       Old school UFO.

   28. JFJames Fox33:56

       Oh, yes, sir.

   29. JRJoe Rogan33:57

       Not UFO.

   30. JFJames Fox33:57

       Old school.
10. 41:56 – 57:09

    Detour into nature and danger: skunks, bears, and mountain lions (and why fear is rational)

    1. JRJoe Rogan41:56

       Wouldn't that be the best protection from an alien planet's bacteria, if you had the most vicious bacteria on the surface of your skin? Right? Like imagine, like if you go to another planet, and the way to mitigate the effects of viruses and bacteria on that planet is to have skin fluid that's like unbelievably-

    2. JFJames Fox42:15

       A protective membrane.

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:16

       ... toxic, like anything that comes near you just gets cooked.

    4. JFJames Fox42:18

       Oh my gosh. Yeah, like a skunk.

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:19

       Right. But like-

    6. JFJames Fox42:19

       Have y- have you ever had a skunk?

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:21

       Oh, yeah. I had a skunk-

    8. JFJames Fox42:22

       Like-

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:22

       ... at my dog once.

    10. JFJames Fox42:23

        I, I took out this guy's garbage one time and he's like, "Hey."

    11. JRJoe Rogan42:26

        (laughs)

    12. JFJames Fox42:26

        "I think it's in my, it's in my garage." So he flipped up the thing and drop it in there. So I like, I was like kind of hungover. I was at, we had a party the night before and I went out to the garbage can. And I kind of heard like some rustling in the garbage can, but I didn't really think anything of it, and I like lifted up the thing, and then I heard some rustling again. So I reached around and I put my head down inside and the skunk just turned and got me right in the face. Now, I held-

    13. JRJoe Rogan42:47

        Oh my God. (laughs)

    14. JFJames Fox42:48

        ... my breath, I held my breath, and I closed my eyes-

    15. JRJoe Rogan42:50

        Oh my God.

    16. JFJames Fox42:50

        ... at the last second and it went right through me. It penetrated my molecules. It was so powerful that it was paralyzing.

    17. JRJoe Rogan42:57

        Hmm.

    18. JFJames Fox42:58

        Absolutely paralyzing. Can you imagine? Just the smell that's, that's, that's their way of defense, is just the stench that just goes through your, goes through your body. Like just paralyzes you.

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:08

        That's crazy.

    20. JFJames Fox43:09

        It's really... Anyway, it was weird.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:10

        You got it in the mug, huh?

    22. JFJames Fox43:11

        I got right in the face.

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:12

        Wow, how long did it take before you didn't stink? 'Cause you smell normal now.

    24. JFJames Fox43:14

        Probably two weeks.

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:15

        (laughs)

    26. JFJames Fox43:16

        (laughs)

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:16

        I was, I was wondering like how long would that wait.

    28. JFJames Fox43:18

        It was, it was several weeks. Yeah, and I tried the, I tried the tomato, and I tried-

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:22

        Yeah.

    30. JFJames Fox43:22

        ... the baking soda, and I tried-
11. 57:09 – 1:12:56

    Calvine photo (1990): provenance, MOD suppression, and ‘men in suits’ intimidation

    1. JFJames Fox57:09

       But, so, well, I was gonna tell you. There's a photograph of a jet circulating... Can, can I, can I go into a little bit of detail?

    2. NANarrator57:15

       Yes. Please. Please.

    3. JFJames Fox57:15

       'Cause everyone's always worried about like, "Where's the good evidence? Where's the good photograph?"

    4. NANarrator57:18

       Right.

    5. JFJames Fox57:18

       They're real.

    6. NANarrator57:19

       Show me that photograph again.

    7. JFJames Fox57:19

       Yeah. So it's, uh, yeah. There we go. Now this was a-

    8. NANarrator57:22

       Now-

    9. JFJames Fox57:22

       ... lost photograph that was recovered, correct?

    10. NANarrator57:25

        Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know about this? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I heard about this in the late '90s. Tell everybody about it.

    11. JFJames Fox57:29

        Okay. So there was a guy, Nick Pope, who investigated, who was part of the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defense of England in the late '90s. Mid to late '90s. Maybe even as late as early 2000s. But in any case. And I was inva- I was interviewing him for a number of my films. I did a film called Out of the Blue, I Know What I Saw, um, before I did The Phenomenon. And I, uh, I asked him like, "Hey, man. You were part of the UFO desk at the MOD. Um, what was the best case you ever saw?" And he goes, "Oh, man. 1990." He didn't give me this, the, the town. It was Calvine. But he said Scotland, there were two poachers. They called them hikers, but they were actually poaching. And so it's made me think about this-

    12. NANarrator58:09

        Hmm.

    13. JFJames Fox58:09

        ... when we were talking about animals earlier. And he said, uh, it was, it was late in the afternoon. We went to a place, uh, I now know it's called Calvine. And, uh, they came upon, uh, in this relatively remote area, I know 'cause I hiked out to the exact spot, and it's in the movie, but, and they came upon this diamond-shaped or disc-shaped object that was quite large that was hovering silently really close. I mean, close. And they were scared to death, and they were kinda, uh, hiding out underneath this tree. And they're looking at this thing going, "What the are we looking at?" And they're just looking at this thing as it's silently hovering. Remember, this is 1990. Okay? And one of them had a camera. And just as he was considering taking his camera out, a military jet came in. Turns out it was one of those, uh, Harrier jet. They think it was a Harrier jet. And it came out into the scene, and it flew all the way around the disc. And as it did so, the guy mustered up the courage, came out from under the tree, and he snapped five or six photographs of this object suspended in the air. And it went cha, cha, ch- So the disc is here, and the plane is flying around just click, click, click, click, click, click. And the reason why I know this is because the individual who kept one of the prints, thank you very much, Craig Lindsay, RAF press officer, and thank you, David Clark, for uncovering this, because it's the most amazing picture ever. And the two hotel workers in, just outside the town of Calvine, Scotland, came back and they were like telling their coworkers, "Oh my God. We encountered this thing. We don't know what it was." So they go to the local newspaper, and they were like, "Hey, man. We just filmed something in the sky. We got six prints of it." They, it was, that was, it was 35 millimeter film footage. Right? And, uh...And they're gonna go public with their story. Two witnesses, broad daylight, a- a- a UFO, points of reference, with a military jet flying around, five or six prints? That's pretty solid evidence, right? So, uh, the local newspaper was like, uh, they're about to go public with it. Print- print the story, and they were like, "Well, we need a statement from the RAF." So they contact the press officer, Craig Lindsay, and they were like, "Hey, what do you make of this UFO these guys took?" And the guy, C- Craig Lindsay goes, "I don't know what you're talking about. I- I haven't seen the picture." They're like, "You haven't seen it? Well, let me send you a print." This is the new- the newspaper. Sends him a print, big- big print like this. It was the one you see today, and uh, he's like, "Holy shit. The hell is this?" He's the RAF Press Officer, Craig Lindsay, and he's like a ... So he starts getting in touch with the MOD and he goes out and he- he investigates this, go talk to the witnesses, talk to the witnesses and they were telling him. And he goes, well, they tell him what happened and he goes, "Well what kind of noise did it make?" And they said, "It didn't make any noise." No, he goes, "No noise? That's impossible." You know, an object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time, we're talking 34 years ago, didn't make any noise? And uh, the- the witness said no. So he was like, "Holy sh- this is crazy." So he takes a color Xeroxing machine and he sends it to the MOD in London and he says, uh, "Hey there's a case that you might wanna ch- you know, you might wanna look into and here's a Xerox." Which is really crappy, it's just a- it's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine over to MOD. He said he went from the office where the Xerox machine was, and before he can get back to his office his phone was ringing off the hook, MOD. And the MOD basically stepped in, took over the- the investigation. They said, "You can step down," to Craig Lindsay. He steps down, he keeps the print, right? He steps down, they take over, witness is gone, five or six prints gone, story killed, right? So 30 o- a- and we'd rumored about it because Nick Pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called, um, Open Skies, Closed Minds. And then I talked to him about it in late- late 90s, then I talked to him about it again in the early 2000s and I was like, "Nick," especially in 2007, I was like, "Tell me about this photograph." And he's like, "Oh it was incredible. We had a big poster of it on the wall at the MOD and da da da." And I was like, "Well where is it?" He goes, "Well I don't know. I- I stepped down. I'm no longer at the- at the UFO desk." And I said, "Well they didn't just throw that away. Why don't you get in touch with the people that were there and find out?" He's like, "Uh, you know James, I can't just make those inquiries." They- we- we killed the story. It was like, you know, so I was incredibly frustrated so- so discretely for over a 20 year period I was making inquiries 'cause I don't like letting things go, right? It was like this picture exists and bloody hell let's get this one out there, but the story went dark. So David Clarke found Craig Lindsay, and the way he found Craig Lindsay, the guy that kept one of the prints, is that he got a- he got a- a- a- a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it. And one of the things it said was, 19- it was 1990 and they said, "RAF press officer in Scotland," blacked out, you know, said that blah blah blah blah blah and he's like, "Huh. (mouth sputtering) Who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland? Craig Lindsay." Boom, contacts Craig Lindsay.

    14. NANarrator1:03:22

        Ah.

    15. JFJames Fox1:03:22

        They started communication going and then after like-

    16. NANarrator1:03:25

        So much for redaction.

    17. JFJames Fox1:03:27

        Yeah, so much for redactions, right? And so this whole dialogue starts going and they're, you know, developing a ... and- and then, um, he goes, "Well gosh, I might- I guess I might have one." Turns out he- he ended up keeping one of those prints which he had and that story broke probably two years ago. David Clarke, again, I can't thank you enough, you deserve accolades for this. And so I flew to England, I met with David Clarke and his crew, the people that did the analysis work, then I went up to Scotland, I met with Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, gave me the first and only on-camera interview about it, what astonished him about it, the analysis work they did on it, what the witnesses said. But we didn't have the witnesses, the people that took the photograph. We didn't have them, but I was gonna report on this anyway just because wow, this is the picture that we've all been waiting for. This picture's phenomenal. But if you don't have provenance and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI, it could be, right? It could be a hoax, some people call it a reflection. Not a reflection, not a hoax. So I'm ending production of the program and I get a text from David Clarke and he goes, "Something big's about to happen." And I said, "What?" He goes, "Just sit tight. I can't go public right now but something big's gonna happen."

    18. NANarrator1:04:37

        (sniffs)

    19. JFJames Fox1:04:37

        "There's- there's a new development." And this is just-

    20. NANarrator1:04:39

        I hate teases.

    21. JFJames Fox1:04:39

        Well I'm coming out with it, I promise. (laughs) So-

    22. NANarrator1:04:42

        But he teased you.

    23. JFJames Fox1:04:42

        He did tease me.

    24. NANarrator1:04:43

        I hate it.

    25. JFJames Fox1:04:43

        He did tease me but I was like, "Well I'm almost done with the movie and if this is something I include in the movie about the case, please let me know." So long story short, this guy Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph. And Richard Greaves, uh, came forward on print, but I contacted David Clarke and I was like, "Hey can this- can I- can you get me an interview with this guy?" So, uh, he kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off and then finally I was like I didn't wanna be ... I wanted to be persistent but I didn't wanna annoy the guy to the point where he's gonna be like, "Hey, you know what? Fuck you." Like-

    26. NANarrator1:05:20

        Right.

    27. JFJames Fox1:05:20

        ... you're- you're being annoying.

    28. NANarrator1:05:22

        Yeah. Yeah.

    29. JFJames Fox1:05:22

        You know? But I- I got it right up to that point, right? When I was like, ah, I was wrapping the movie. The movie's done and I wanna get this movie out 'cause all the people that participated wanted it out. And then I finally send him one final text and I was like, "Look, I'm really sorry to pester you and I know you're probably really busy and I really appreciate the fact that you even said that you'll meet with me but- that you'll give me an interview." And then probably about 10:00 that night when I'm in the edit room buttoning the film up and all of a sudden I get a phone call and he's like, "I've just come out the pub and I'm ready to go." I was like, "Okay. Grab a camera. Roll it. Let's record this." And he reveals that he knew the- the witnesses, he worked with them in the kitchen, he gave all the specifics, he provided their names and then he said that two or three nights after-... two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel, early evening, pissing rain. He said a car rolled up. There were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back. They roll up, they come out. They say, "Cigarette break's over." They pull the two witnesses aside, and they grill him. And you gotta hear it directly from the horse's mouth, Richard Greves said that when they were all... The people that were not involved with the incident were told to go back inside the hotel, which they did, but they looked through the window and they saw, in the pissing rain... He said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain, and that these guys, uh, they came back inside and they were white as a... He said, he, he, he literally goes, um, "They, uh, they came back inside and they were white as a fucking ghost." And, uh, which we all got a good laugh out of, but, uh... And then, they started drinking heavily and within a couple of weeks, they vanished without a trace and they've been gone ever since. So we report on this. And yeah, that's a, that's a repli-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:07:06

        Okay.

Episode duration: 2:43:57