Joe Rogan Experience #2262 - Dr. Mark Gordon

1. 0:00 – 3:34

   Four-year catch-up: expanding TBI/PTSD work and a stronger inflammation-first approach

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays) Rob Doc Lord, good to see you again, my friend.

   3. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:14

      Hey. It's always great to be here.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      It's been a while. It's been a while.

   5. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:17

      (clears throat) Uh, four years. January 8th, I ... No, January 15th.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      Was it really?

   7. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:22

      Yeah, not long ago.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:23

      Four years, geez.

   9. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:24

      Yeah. It's been four years.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       The last time, you were here, right?

   11. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:27

       Uh, correct.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Yeah.

   13. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:28

       I think the last tour was here.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       That was, so that was, like, right after ... A couple of months after I moved here.

   15. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:31

       Moved here, yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       Yeah, so almost exactly four years.

   17. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:35

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Crazy.

   19. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:36

       Well, waiting was great.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Waiting?

   21. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:40

       Because I ... Waiting. I mean, the time, four years-

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       Mm-hmm.

   23. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:42

       ... waiting to have another chat with you 'cause so much has gone on since, uh, last we met.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Wh- Well, tell me. What's gone on?

   25. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:50

       Well, uh, (laughs) where do you want to start? A? Z? (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Anywhere.

   27. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:54

       Anywhere. Uh, let's see. You know, the family's expanding.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Yeah.

   29. MGDr. Mark Gordon0:59

       You know, that which is great. All three daughters have, uh, been married and each has a grandchild, which is making me feel old, so I've ramped up, stepped up my hormonal treatment to keep me on edge because I wanna be a lot ... around a lot longer to take care of these kids or to be with the kids. They're just 16 months, but they're still fantastic, unbelievable.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       That's awesome.
2. 3:34 – 4:41

   Inflammation vs. “normal scans”: why TBI/PTSD can be missed by conventional imaging

   1. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:34

      But I think o- one of the, um, misperceptions is, as you said, and I apologize for that, is that we think it's all due to pituitary gland, but it isn't. In the work that we've been doing, it shows that when you have inflammation in the brain, regardless of how it's developed, whether or not it's a IED or a slip and fall or, as we've talked in the past, even wave runners-

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:54

      ... ski- Ski-Doos-

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:55

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:55

      ... or skiing or water skiing, snow skiing-

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:58

      Right.

   7. MGDr. Mark Gordon3:58

      ... uh, or going to the range, uh, 50-caliber gun- gunners, what happens is, it creates this inflammation that shuts off the ability of the brain to regulate the pituitary gland. So, you can do all the MRIs, as they do at the VA, and they see a normal pituitary gland and says, "Oh, pituitary's normal, you've got PTSD."

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:18

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:18

      But there's no radiological or neuro-radiological procedure that'll allow you to look at inflammation in the brain.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:26

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:26

       So, they assume-

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       Right.

   13. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:28

       ... they can't find any structural damage, that it has to be all psychiatric.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:33

       Sort of like when they used to have to diagnose CTE after you were already dead.

   15. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:37

       (laughs) Correct.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:38

       Right?

   17. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:38

       Is- Isn't that how they're doing it now?

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       No, I think they can scan for it now, right?

3. 4:41 – 5:53

   Shared biochemistry across CTE, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, MS: beta-amyloid, tau, and vascular inflammation

   1. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:41

      Uh, there's a PET scan that can look for the tau protein that creates-

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:45

      Is that what it is?

   3. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:45

      Yeah. So it's, uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:46

      Yeah.

   5. MGDr. Mark Gordon4:46

      Yeah. Tau proteins, uh, hyperphosphorylated, uh, tau becomes these NFTs, these neurofibril tangles, which is an interesting issue. It's been part of my last year of deep dive, trying to find out, why is it that you develop CTE or the symptoms relative to CTE? Why is it that you develop the symptoms relative to Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or multiple sclerosis? Well, it turns out that the biochemistry is all the same. Something called beta amyloid, which is the hallmark for someone with Alzheimer's disease, and then, these tau proteins, hyperphosphorylated tau proteins that they call NFTs, that they circulate around the blood vessels and they create this intense inflammation. And that intense inflammation causes loss of blood supply, damage to neurons-

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:36

      Hmm.

   7. MGDr. Mark Gordon5:36

      ... and you develop it. So, we've had ... Uh, using our protocol, we have our sixth case of multiple sclerosis that was totally put into remission. It took 90 days to put him in r- remission. It was a, uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:51

      Really?

   9. MGDr. Mark Gordon5:51

      ... lieutenant. Yeah. It's a video up on, uh-

4. 5:53 – 9:09

   Gordon’s updated protocol: nutraceutical stack + hormone replacement to protect the brain

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:53

      And what's the protocol that did that?

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon5:55

      The protocol is the nutraceutical that drops the inflammation and replacing the hormones that are deficient that protect the brain.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:03

      What is in the nutraceutical?

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:05

      In the nutraceuticals, there is, uh, quercetin. You know about quercetin.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:10

      Mm-hmm.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:11

      Uh, it's got, uh, EP- EDA, uh, ED-... DHA from, uh, omegas. It has in it glutathione and acetylcysteine. It's got B12, um, that's on one component of it. The other component has B1, B2, which deals with neural communication. And then it's got PQQ and CoQ10. PQQ is a form of CoQ10, it's the sister.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:36

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:36

      And it's 100 to 1000 times stronger, but it's, what it does, it increases mitochondrial function. I know you've had a lot of people here talking about mitochondrial function.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:46

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:46

       And that's a major piece in how to reverse things like neurodegenerative diseases and improve mental functioning.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:53

       Mm.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon6:54

       I mean, products like you have, like, uh, Alpha Brain, you know, has a, an effect on improving mitochondrial function, and that's what you wanna do. That's a key. So you have to drop the inflammation, because inflammation causes mitochondria that produce ATP, it causes mitochondrial dysfunction. So in all those neurodegenerative diseases, mitochondrial dysfunction has been ignored in the past, and you need to address it. So PQQ and CoQ10 are two very, very potent, when added together, they stimulate mitochondrial ATP production and replication of mitochondria. Quercetin does the same thing, that's why it's so important. So-

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:37

       Quercetin, you were, you were explaining to me before that it's an ionophore.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon7:41

       Correct.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:41

       And that it, it, it gets ions into the bloodstream better.

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon7:44

       Correct.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       So it's when you consume it with zinc.

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon7:46

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:47

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5. 9:09 – 11:32

   Quercetin + zinc deep dive: ionophore effects, antiviral claims, and broader metabolic roles

   1. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:09

      But, but that's one, that's one of its functions, but there are five functions that it has. Quercetin's amazing. It's an ionophore, which is when we talked about COVID and zinc, it carries zinc into the cell to shut down the ability of the COVID, SARS, from replicating.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:26

      Or any virus, essentially, right?

   3. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:27

      Well, it works with SARS and it works with influenza A and B, works with rhinovirus and enterovirus, gut viruses that you can get during, uh, summertime.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:37

      So what I was just getting at is, is it's beneficial for people all year round, not just-

   5. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:41

      Absolutely.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:42

      ... people that think they might be getting COVID?

   7. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:43

      Absolutely. So I take 500, uh, milligrams twice a day.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:47

      Of quercetin?

   9. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:48

      Of quercetin.

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:48

       And how much zinc with that?

   11. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:50

       30 milligrams.

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:51

       Okay.

   13. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:51

       I take 30, and I-

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:52

       And you do that twice a day?

   15. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:53

       I do that, uh, the quercetin twice a day, but zinc, because my levels are where they're at-

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:58

       Mm-hmm.

   17. MGDr. Mark Gordon9:59

       ... I don't put a lot of, uh, zinc in, because zinc's involved in about 300 processes in the body. It's antiviral, that we just talked about, it's anti-Alzheimer's, because it turns out that the production of the chemical called beta amyloid, there's an enzyme that regulates it, and it's zinc dependent. So if it's working, it's called a secretase, it's called alpha-secretase, it's zinc dependent. Beta-secretase is not. So beta-secretase takes and makes the beta amyloid that causes the Alzheimer's, the inflammation. And with that inflammation, you then start getting the same thing in CTE. So in all these inflammatory conditions, they have the same beta amyloid and cause for CTE, the hyperphosphorylated tau protein that we call no- uh, NFTs.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:50

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MGDr. Mark Gordon10:50

       Neurofibril tangles. So they're all related. So what quercetin does is it increases mitochondrial replication in about, uh, s- seven days, doubles the amount of mitochondria intracellularly. Uh, it helps increase in the liver something called IGF-binding protein 3, insulin-like binding protein 3. Binding protein 3 is always looked at as being the carrier for IGF-1, insulin-like growth factor, growth hormone, turns on in the liver the production of insulin-like growth factor, which is the main below-the-neck growth factor for our body. Improves, uh, protein synthesis, uh, decreases inflammation too.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:31

       Wow, okay.

   21. MGDr. Mark Gordon11:32

       Yeah.

6. 11:32 – 20:29

   Alzheimer’s research scandal and the reproducibility crisis: when incentives distort science

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:32

      Um, a sidetrack. When you're talking about beta amyloid and Alzheimer's-

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon11:36

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:36

      ... wasn't there a, a significant amount of fraud that was exposed about, uh, Alzheimer's studies that put into question a lot of the, uh, ideas that people had about Alzheimer's? Wasn't that, something that happened recently?

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon11:51

      Uh, well, um, in the train of, uh, thought on Alzheimer's, you know, they're saying that it's due to the recessive genes. Well, if you look at the real s- the studies recently-

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:03

      Mm-hmm.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:03

      ... 95% of the cases of Alzheimer's disease appear to be due to trauma and aging. Trauma and aging. Only 5%-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:13

      So trauma, like, f- head trauma?

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:15

      Head trauma.... because what happens is trauma stimulates the brain because of inflammation-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:21

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon12:21

       ... to increase the production of beta amyloid, and it's because there's, they found recently another secretase. What secretases are, are the enzymes that convert a protein called APP, um, Alzheimer's precursor protein, and it's a long protein, and two enzymes go in and clip it here and clip it here, and that piece is beta amyloid. That's the bad stuff. That's a beta secretase and a gamma secretase. But they also have something called alpha secretase. So if alpha secretase and gamma secretase cut this APP, it generates alpha amyloid, which is inert, not inflammatory.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Mm.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:05

       And so what did they find recently? Something called delta secretase. Delta secretase and gamma gives you beta amyloid. So how do you generate delta secretase in the body? Trauma, aging. So that's why most of the cases of, um, of Alzheimer's disease are inflammatory-based. So one of the things that-

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:30

       Um, um, I'm sorry, but, um-

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:31

       Go ahead.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:31

       ... most cases, is there a certain age where people start to develop it? Or, and has there been any cases of very young people to get Alzheimer's?

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon13:38

       Yes. There's a young form of Alzheimer's, and that might be directly due to having had head trauma and developing this delta amyloid or, uh, delta secretase, generating amyl- uh, amyloid, beta amyloid that creates the Alzheimer's disease. As you get older, 65 years of age and above, that is, could be 5% genetic, but I think what the literature is really speaking towards is that it all has an inflammatory basis. Remember, trauma in the brain equates out to inflammatory processes.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:11

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:11

       It's part of the brain's ability to try and protect us.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:14

       Right.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:15

       Okay? Remove junk, uh, bacteria, mold, viruses from the brain.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       Mm-hmm.

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:20

       And also metabolites of, uh, abnormal, uh, metabolism in the brain.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:25

       Well, what was the scandal? The-

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:27

       I don't remem-

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:28

       ... Alzheimer's research scandal 'cause it was pretty significant, and they were saying that it, it throws into question all of these, uh, previous assumptions and therapies that they were providing for Alzheimer's disease, and this-

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:40

       Oh.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:40

       ... person had, uh, made a significant amount of money.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:43

       Yeah. It's the antibodies, it's the treatment protocols, the antibodies against beta amyloid, and they found that even though you're against beta amyloid, you were still progressing on to develop symptoms of, uh, Alzheimer's disease.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:58

       But they were talking about fraud.

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon14:59

       Uh-
7. 20:29 – 23:37

   Inflammation in modern life: diet, exercise, BDNF, and a boxer’s recovery story

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:29

      I was just reading an article about Alzheimer's that was claiming that Alzheimer's didn't even exist until m- modern times.

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:35

      Statins.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:37

      Statins cause Alzheimer's?

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:38

      Well-

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:38

      Is that what you're saying? This, this article was connecting it to our diet, the standard American diet. And they were saying that all the bullshit food that people eat is contributing to-

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:47

      Yep.

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:47

      ... this, uh, this condition. And I was, what I was gonna get to you is that would lead to in- inflammation, correct?

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:53

      You got it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan20:53

      'Cause the bullshit American diet filled with crap is terrible for you-

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon20:58

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:58

       ... and that leads to inflammation.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:00

       You look at the inflammatory neurodegenerative diseases. What does everyone have now? It's as a low inflammatory diet.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:08

       Right. Right.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:08

       That's what it talks about. Also, in HIT, in high-impact, uh, interval training and high-impact aerobics, what happens is you can increase a chemical in the brain called brain-derived neurotrophic factor-

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:20

       Mm-hmm.

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:20

       ... which is something that helps to improve neuron-to-neuron communication and neurology of your brain. And I don't know if you saw, we have, uh, one of your favorite guys, Gerald McClellan. I don't know if you've seen some of the papers that have come out. He had a stroke in '95, uh, fighting, um, uh, Nigel Benn in London.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:42

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:42

       And during that fight, it was a horrible fight if you've ever seen the, uh-

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:46

       It's a crazy fight.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:47

       It's, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:47

       Yeah.

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:48

       So anyway, he had a stroke-

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:51

       Mm-hmm.

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:51

       ... from that-

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:51

       Right.

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon21:51

       ... and was hospitalized for 11 days in a coma in ICU in London. Gets out. His sister, Lisa McClelland, refuses to put him into a nursing home, into a hospice health, takes him into the house in Chicago, and for 29 years dealt with him. She develops a organization called, um, Ring of Brotherhood, where Muhammad Ali's niece and son, I think, are part of it, and they take care of, um, boxers who are leaving the ring who have symptoms, punch drunk, or whatever they call it, uh, precogs or pugilistic, uh, dementia pugilistic.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:27

       Pugilistic, yeah. Yeah.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon22:27

       Yeah. And she contacted me and, uh, told me about her brother, and I looked at stuff, and what we did was we set up a fund and we paid for his laboratory work and his initial assessment, and we found he was hormonally deficient. So, what we ended up doing is putting him onto the hormone replacement and to, um, one of the peptides that we use, uh, which is called N-acetyl. Cmax, uh, which stimulates the brain to produce more brain-derived neurotrophic factor. He's in Chicago. I'm in Ca- in California, or here in Texas, in Magnolia, and one of our docs in Chicago took the lead. I just gave her what to do. He's 20% better in four months on the protocol. He's now remembering things. He's communicating. He's on the phone and, uh, uh, a boxing journalist, uh, Oliver Fennell came from London to Chicago and wrote a paper which is called A Day in the Life of Gerald McClellan, and talks about how, what happened-

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:31

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon23:31

       ... and where he's gone. And he's had some improvement. Uh-
8. 23:37 – 31:06

   Ibogaine and psychedelic-assisted therapy: policy barriers, compassionate use, and safety concerns

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:37

      Yeah, um, I'm sure y- we talked about Rick Perry before-

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon23:41

      Sure.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:41

      ... the podcast started, so I'm sure you, you're aware of his, um, push to, uh, legalize ibogaine and start using ibogain for, uh-

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon23:49

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:49

      ... people with traumatic brain injuries. And he was talking about how it regenerates neural tissue and, and, and helps people significantly. And then, and then on top of that, the addiction-

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:00

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:00

      ... uh, issue, where people have addictions and ibogaine is incredible for, for curing those.

   8. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:05

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan24:06

      Like, literally curing them.

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:07

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan24:07

       In one, in one, with one session, it's in the 80% range. With two sessions, it's in the, it's somewhere around 97%, which is just crazy.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:16

       It's f-

   13. JRJoe Rogan24:16

       93% to 97%.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:17

       It's phenomenal. I, I give a lot of, uh, credit to Rick Perry. In, uh, 2022, they had HB1802, which is the first bill in any state where the state...... put money into a research project at Baylor for, um, it was for, uh, psilocybin, is where he started. So it was Rick Perry, Andrew Marr-

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:39

       Mm-hmm.

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:39

       ... was part of it-

   17. JRJoe Rogan24:40

       Yeah.

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:40

       ... along with Dr., uh, Martin.

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:42

       Shout out to our friend Andrew.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:44

       Yeah. Hello, Andrew.

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:47

       (laughs)

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon24:48

       (laughs) Um, and, uh, let's see, uh, Dr. Martin Polanco, who I'll cycle back to, because the ibogaine issue was what he helped to develop. So, uh, it was also, uh, Representative Alex Dominguez who helped to push it through to get the funding for it. And it's at Baylor with, uh, a doctor by the name of, um, Lynette Averill, PhD. She's th- I believe the one who's in charge of it. But recently, you know, we have ayahuasca, we've got ibogaine, we got, uh, LSD, we've got MMTA. Uh, the ibogaine seems to be really good for addiction-

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       Hmm.

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon25:23

       ... and for neural regeneration, which is what you were, uh, talking about-

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:27

       Right.

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon25:27

       ... to improvement in the neural function. Uh, downside is the cardiovascular, so it has to always be under-

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:33

       Right.

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon25:33

       ... a very strict, very close observation.

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:36

       Right.

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon25:37

       (smacks lips) And the, uh, doctor that I talked about, the MD, uh, Martin, uh, Polanco, who has clinics in Mexico, uses ibogaine. And, uh, one of our new vets who came on board in, uh, one of the other states, uh, set up a 508 charitable organization. The eight is a religious organization.
9. 31:06 – 35:21

   Supplements, glutathione, and “optimization”: why most doctors don’t major in nutrition

   1. JRJoe Rogan31:06

      L'chaim.

   2. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:07

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan31:07

      But we are...... responsible adults.

   4. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:09

      Am I entitled to a refill?

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:11

      Yes, sir. Yeah.

   6. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:12

      Okay.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:12

      There you go. Get in there you fucking drunk.

   8. NANarrator31:15

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:15

      (laughs)

   10. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:15

       I took my glutathione.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:16

       I know you did. I know you did.

   12. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:18

       You know-

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       Psh.

   14. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:18

       I, I apologize. I finally went back and listened to our first podcast, 438, from August 8th, 2012.

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       Mm. Damn, that long ago?

   16. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:30

       Wild. Wild.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:31

       13 years ago?

   18. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:32

       Wild. It was wild. And the thing that stuck out was the glutathione. So, I started this morning with my glutathione.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:39

       Mm-hmm.

   20. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:40

       'Cause I knew we were gonna finish this bottle. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       Oh, well, I'm not finishing that bottle. There's not a chance in hell. I have stuff to do.

   22. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:46

       Oh. We all do.

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       And I, and I just worked out. Um-

   24. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:48

       Did you take glutathione?

   25. JRJoe Rogan31:49

       Uh, I haven't taken it yet, no.

   26. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:50

       Okay. You want some?

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:51

       I take it every night. Sure. If you got some, go get me some. I take it, uh, every night. I take liposomal-

   28. MGDr. Mark Gordon31:58

       This is nano like... That's what that is.

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       ... yeah, that's it. There you go. Oh, this, I have to suck on this, right? It tastes like shit.

   30. MGDr. Mark Gordon32:02

       Hey, no.
10. 35:21 – 42:55

    From chicken manure to terra preta: fertilizers, guano wars, and engineered Amazon soil

    1. JRJoe Rogan35:21

       What about folks that are getting their food organically? They're getting like, like they go to a farmer's market, they get really good organic groceries?

    2. MGDr. Mark Gordon35:27

       Uh, most of the organic people, uh, supplement the animals with quality supplementation food.

    3. JRJoe Rogan35:35

       But I mean organic vegetables.

    4. MGDr. Mark Gordon35:37

       Organic vegetables. Uh, you know, org- to be organic, you can't have pesticides on it, you can't have heavy metals. So it has to be, uh, nutritionally enriched with positive, um, uh, soil, uh, they might put at-

    5. JRJoe Rogan35:53

       Compost.

    6. MGDr. Mark Gordon35:53

       ... they might put additives in it which are-

    7. JRJoe Rogan35:54

       Ideally you'd like just a natural process-

    8. MGDr. Mark Gordon35:57

       Right.

    9. JRJoe Rogan35:57

       ... of like compost and manure and stuff like that.

    10. MGDr. Mark Gordon35:59

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan35:59

        And that's where-

    12. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:00

        I, I use chicken shit on, uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan36:02

        Perfect.

    14. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:02

        ... in my-

    15. JRJoe Rogan36:02

        Chicken shit's great, right?

    16. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:04

        (laughs) It works, yeah. I've got some great, uh, lemons and vegetables.

    17. JRJoe Rogan36:07

        Do you know that people used to go to war over bat shit?

    18. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:10

        Oh, guano. Yes.

    19. JRJoe Rogan36:12

        Yeah.

    20. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:12

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan36:12

        Isn't that nuts?

    22. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:13

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan36:13

        Like guano was so important for fertilizer, for-

    24. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:16

        Not only fertilize, then it became, uh, the k- the base foundation for lipstick and eyeliner.

    25. JRJoe Rogan36:22

        What?

    26. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:22

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan36:23

        Bat shit was the foundation for lips?

    28. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:26

        Uh, gua- look up guano.

    29. JRJoe Rogan36:26

        Ew.

    30. MGDr. Mark Gordon36:26

        Guano.
11. 42:55 – 52:20

    Uncontacted tribes and rainforest protection: the ethics of discovery and exposure

    1. JRJoe Rogan42:55

       In fact, my friend Paul Rosolie... Do you know who Paul Rosolie is?

    2. MGDr. Mark Gordon42:58

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:59

       Is he the one-

    4. MGDr. Mark Gordon42:59

       Any... Archeology?

    5. JRJoe Rogan43:00

       No. Um-... he's essentially working to save the rainforests. And what he does is he goes down there, and he hires these people that were loggers to have a new job, and the new job is to protect the forest instead. And they've saved, like, shit ton ... I don't know what-

    6. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:17

       Hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan43:17

       ... the number is, but in- an incredible large number of acres they've saved this way.

    8. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:22

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan43:22

       And they continue to do this, and they're trying to work with these people and try to stop them from just-

    10. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:26

        Destroying the desolate-

    11. JRJoe Rogan43:27

        ... destroying the Amazon.

    12. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:28

        Yeah. I think Sting, uh, donated a large amount of money to the Brazilian Amazon.

    13. JRJoe Rogan43:32

        Hmm.

    14. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:32

        And a lot of, um, entertainers who have donated a lot of money to protect it.

    15. JRJoe Rogan43:37

        So my friend, Paul, he runs into uncontacted tribes all the time.

    16. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:40

        Really?

    17. JRJoe Rogan43:41

        It's- uh, many times.

    18. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:41

        Love to go there.

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:42

        He sent me a video the other day-

    20. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:43

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:43

        ... that I can't share, but it's crazy.

    22. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:45

        Okay.

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:45

        You see these uncontacted tribes, these naked people-

    24. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:48

        (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:48

        ... in the jungle in 2025.

    26. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:50

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:51

        It's really wild.

    28. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:52

        Yeah, they live in isolation.

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:53

        Yeah, but- well-

    30. MGDr. Mark Gordon43:55

        Yeah.
12. 52:20 – 1:16:51

    Bears, predators, and ‘ballot-box biology’: wildlife management, hunting, and unintended consequences

    1. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:20

       Yeah, I love that. In m- in my neighborhood, uh, the old neighborhood in Chatsworth, we had brown bears coming in.

    2. JRJoe Rogan52:26

       No, you didn't. You had black bears.

    3. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:28

       Yes.

    4. JRJoe Rogan52:28

       You had black bears.

    5. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:28

       No, brown bear of California.

    6. JRJoe Rogan52:30

       No. No, no, no, no, no.

    7. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:30

       What do you mean no, no, no, no, no?

    8. JRJoe Rogan52:32

       No, but, uh, brown bears have been extinct in California since the 1800s. The last guy to die-

    9. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:36

       So they look brown and they're black?

    10. JRJoe Rogan52:37

        Yes. The last guy to die from bear attacks, from a brown bear, was Stephen Levesque. And he died in what's now Levesque, California. They named the town after him.

    11. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:48

        Yep.

    12. JRJoe Rogan52:48

        And it's, uh, right outside of Tejon Ranch. So they-

    13. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:50

        I'll have to show you, send you the pictures.

    14. JRJoe Rogan52:52

        Well, I'll tell you what it is. It's called a color phase bear.

    15. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:55

        Color phase.

    16. JRJoe Rogan52:55

        So it's a difference... It's a different bear.

    17. MGDr. Mark Gordon52:57

        Okay.

    18. JRJoe Rogan52:57

        So there's a brown bear, which is a grizzly bear and the, the Kodiak bear-

    19. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:02

        Right.

    20. JRJoe Rogan53:02

        ... and, uh, uh, you know, those bears. These are enor- but they're all the same bear. The difference between a grizzly bear and a brown bear is just mostly what they eat. So the brown bears in, like, Alaska have so much salmon that they have immense amounts of protein and they're the, the largest of all the brown bears. They're fucking huge.

    21. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:21

        Yes.

    22. JRJoe Rogan53:21

        They're much, much, much, much bigger than a black bear.

    23. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:24

        Yeah. We had Parks and Rangers come to our house because, uh, one of our refrigerators failed. So we had all this great beef in there, so I had to throw it out. The next-

    24. JRJoe Rogan53:34

        Oh, and the bears found it. (bear growl)

    25. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:35

        The next day, the bears found it. It was in a-

    26. JRJoe Rogan53:38

        Yeah.

    27. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:38

        ... you know, canister, and they came there, so I took videos of these... what I thought were brown bears coming in.

    28. JRJoe Rogan53:44

        No.

    29. MGDr. Mark Gordon53:44

        So you're saying they're not. What's the-

    30. JRJoe Rogan53:46

        No, they're, they're brown color phase. So br- brown bears can be b- uh, b-
13. 1:16:51 – 1:24:59

    Nature’s “monsters”: owls, cassowaries, shoebills, and prehistoric terror birds

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:16:51

       Do you know owls are stupid?

    2. MGDr. Mark Gordon1:16:53

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:16:53

       Yeah, they're dumb. You know that whole thing of-

    4. MGDr. Mark Gordon1:16:55

       Uh, uh, what sense?

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:16:55

       ... wise old owl? They're one of the dumbest birds. They don't learn things. They're stupid. I talked to a lady who's a falconer, and she trains birds. And she has an owl, and she's like, "It's the dumbest bird I have." She's like, "This idea that owls are wise."

    6. MGDr. Mark Gordon1:17:09

       Oh.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:17:09

       She goes, like, "They're the second dumbest bird."

Episode duration: 2:37:23