Joe Rogan Experience #2275 - Magnus Carlsen

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast.…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) All right, we're up and rolling. Magnets crossed, ladies and gentlemen. You want some coffee?

   4. MCMagnus Carlsen0:16

      No. Oh, this is water. Yeah, excellent.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      We, uh, tell Jeff we're bringing the coffee. Forgot to bring in the coffee.

   6. MCMagnus Carlsen0:20

      No, no, I'm good with water.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Well, I need coffee. I wanna keep up with you, buddy. (laughs)

   8. MCMagnus Carlsen0:25

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      And of course, Tony Hinchcliffe is here, who's a, a gigantic chess fan, and d- just creamed his pants yesterday when I told him you were coming in. And then immediately, I said, "You gotta come with me." And so-

   10. MCMagnus Carlsen0:34

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       ... Tony's here as well. It's an honor to meet you, man. Um, I, I, I'm always fascinated by people that are at the top of something that's insanely difficult, like chess. And I'm always wondering, like, how much time is involved? How much, how often do you play? And whe- when did you start? How old were you when you first started playing?

   12. MCMagnus Carlsen0:55

       I think my dad... My dad is an avid chess player, so I think he, uh, t- thought that I might have some talent, so he thought... He taught me pretty early, at r- around five years old. But at that time, I wasn't that interested. Uh, I was mostly into LEGOs and I was into maths and, like, sports stats, and I had my little flag book with all, um, all the countries in the world, their flags and their inhabitants and area and everything. And I sort of... That w- that's what I did (laughs) uh, generally, just, um, taking in all the s- all the stats that I could also with, with sports, reading the sports section every day. And I didn't find chess that fun. Uh, a couple of years later, uh, my older sister is a year and a half older than me. She had a... She did a lot of chess with, with my dad. I started sitting in on them a bit, and, um, I, I started liking it. I really, really wanted to beat my sister as well at generally everything.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:56

       (laughs)

   14. MCMagnus Carlsen1:56

       And, uh, yeah, from there on, it really just became, um, became my thing, and it's, you know, been my main hobby and, uh, eventually work as well since.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Yeah, obviously. (laughs)

   16. MCMagnus Carlsen2:08

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:09

       It's fu- It's so funny though. A spark, a competitive spark with your sister is really what ignited you to get going with it.

   18. MCMagnus Carlsen2:16

       Yeah, the, the funny thing is, like, she's not competitive at all.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:19

       (laughs)

   20. MCMagnus Carlsen2:19

       So she hated the fact that I, like... I wanted to play, especially when I, I, I realized that I could beat her. Uh, and she, she, she liked chess, but she stopped for, for a while and only started when I had become, like, good enough that there wasn't a competition. So it turned like, like... My dad was right after all. I just needed, um, I just needed that, um, that extra push.

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:41

       Yeah, what a, what a call. "I think you've got some talent." What a call. (laughs)

   22. NANarrator2:46

       Grandmaster at 12, was it?

   23. MCMagnus Carlsen2:49

       Um, 13. So actually the, um, the record is, um, the record is 12, but, uh, most kids these days, honestly, they, they start so early. Uh, I was at a tournament in India a few months ago, and there's this guy who's like a 1600 rated player, and he's three years old.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:08

       (laughs)

   25. MCMagnus Carlsen3:08

       And like I, I'm seeing...

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:12

       (laughs)

   27. MCMagnus Carlsen3:12

       I'm seeing the, I'm seeing the games, like they are actually, they're actually decent. Um, and yeah, now they're... There's this one kid from Argentina, like, they call him the Messi of chess, who's g- gonna become a grandmaster soon. I think he's, he's only 10. So they're-

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       (exhales)

   29. MCMagnus Carlsen3:28

       ... they're really, really, uh, playing early these days. But it's, it's, it's good to see though, because, like, information is so easily accessible these days. Like, it takes a lot shorter time to, to get, to get good at something.

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:42

       Well, it seems like now, uh, chess, because of social media and bec-... It's like everything else. It's kind of exploding 'cause there's so many fascinating videos out. And then, of course, there was like the big controversy with that, uh, young man who you believe is a, a big old cheater. That guy. I, I, I need to know, the anal beads thing. Is that a legitimate theory?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Other than cheating. …

   1. MCMagnus Carlsen15:00

      that sort of is what sets the, really the best players apart from merely good players. But I feel like anybody could come, become quite decent at, um, at the game. But I do love the fact that, you know, there are no coincidences, like there are no outside factors. Well, if you, uh, if you don't-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      Other than cheating.

   3. MCMagnus Carlsen15:23

      Other than cheating, of course. Um, but it's just, um, yeah, you're either outsmarting your opponent or you're getting outsmarted.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:32

      So, for a guy like you that excels above all, what is the difference in your preparation? Is it just simply who you are as a person, you think? Or is it something about the difference in your preparation without giving away any secrets, obviously?

   5. MCMagnus Carlsen15:48

      (laughs) Um, y- I'm like known in the chess world for being like a little bit lazy, I think. Uh, the thing is that I, um...

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:01

      Can I pause you there?

   7. MCMagnus Carlsen16:02

      Wha- wha- what? Yeah, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:03

      What do you mean lazy? Like, how is that possible?

   9. MCMagnus Carlsen16:05

      No, the thing is like, I've never been the kind of person who wakes up in the morning, works six, seven hours in, in chess like a normal, a normal job. And then, um...

   10. NANarrator16:18

       Because a lot of them study computers and stuff.

   11. MCMagnus Carlsen16:20

       Yeah. E- e- exactly. Like I've, I think about the game all the time, like I play online. I, I look at, I look at games. I may read some-

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Do you ever play anonymously?

   13. MCMagnus Carlsen16:31

       I used to do that all the time. Um...

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       What a bloodbath that must be. (laughs)

   15. NANarrator16:36

       (laughs)

   16. MCMagnus Carlsen16:37

       But, but I think I got humbled, um, one time by this Russian Grand Master who, um, asked, somebody else asked me, like if a certain account on a certain website was me. And I was like, "Yeah, um, I don't know. Like, I don't know who that is." And this guy went like, "Yes, that is you." And he listed off like five other accounts that I thought nobody knew about. (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:03

       Oh, wow.

   18. MCMagnus Carlsen17:04

       That were, that were-

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       How did they know?

   20. MCMagnus Carlsen17:05

       ... also me.

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:05

       By the way you play?

   22. MCMagnus Carlsen17:06

       Yeah, I think it's, it's playing strength, playing style, because I, I tried to switch up my openings on different accounts to not make it obvious that it's, it's me. And I have like a style where I switch that up a lot, so it makes it a bit easier. But I think you could just tell by, um, by the playing style, so.

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:26

       That is crazy.

   24. MCMagnus Carlsen17:27

       These, these days, I just, I play with my, um, my own name. Um, I like, I'm, I don't really care about that anymore.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:36

       Yeah. Um, so do most professional players study chess all day long at the highest level?

   26. MCMagnus Carlsen17:45

       I think, um, I think quite a few do. Uh, I, I mean, I don't know, like people's day-to-day activities. So-

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:55

       You guys don't talk about it?

   28. MCMagnus Carlsen17:56

       Not that much. Um, the people that I've worked with, they certainly study chess a lot. Uh, but others, I'm, I'm not quite sure. Um, the thing is that chess has always like still been a bit of a hobby for me, that once it start, starts to feel like work, then...... it, it's, it's, it's harder for me. I had a, I had a chess coach when I was, uh, when I was little. I, I went to have sessions once a week, which I loved, and then he started giving me homework and I, yeah, I, I, I told him, like quickly, like, "I, yeah, I don't, I don't like, I don't like homework."

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:34

       (laughs)

   30. MCMagnus Carlsen18:34

       But I would s-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   (dramatic music) Thousands died on…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      a devastating cyberattack that downs America's infrastructure. Take a listen.

   2. NANarrator30:05

      (dramatic music) Thousands died on Zero Day.

   3. NANarrator30:09

      Congress is authorizing a special Zero Day commission.

   4. NANarrator30:13

      You're just gonna grab people off the streets without warrants?

   5. NANarrator30:15

      Actually, you are.

   6. NANarrator30:18

      I run this investigation. Not the White House, not the CIA.

   7. NANarrator30:22

      If the public finds out how deep this really is, I don't think we survive.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:34

      Robert De Niro is absolutely legendary in his first TV series, and you don't really know if he's the good guy or the bad guy till the end. Zero Day has an incredible supporting cast, including Angela Bassett, Jesse Plemons, Lizzy Caplan, and Connie Britton. Zero Day is now playing only on Netflix. Yeah, that would be, like, psychologically torturous, right?

   9. MCMagnus Carlsen30:59

      Um, yeah, especially if it's- if- especially if I'm playing somebody whom I'm- who is a little bit of a rival, but it's like, yeah, no.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       Right.

   11. MCMagnus Carlsen31:08

       That's not gonna- that's not gonna happen.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:09

       No chance.

   13. MCMagnus Carlsen31:10

       I mean, because, like, every time, like, I lose games, it's- it's a little bit of a story, right-

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:15

       Yeah.

   15. MCMagnus Carlsen31:15

       ... in the chess world, so I prefer (laughs) it to happen as- as seldom as- as possible.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       I played a little bit of chess when I was young but I- I never really got into it, but my real introduction where I got fascinated with chess was actually at a pool hall, because people in the pool hall would play chess sometimes. But there was this one guy who went to jail, and, uh, in jail he learned how to play chess with his head, in his- in his mind. And then there was a young kid who was a grandmaster, who was, like, 16, 17 years old, somewhere around that, really, really good chess player who kind of, like, lost his way and started hanging around in pool halls and gambling and being a weirdo. And I watched these two guys play chess with just words, and I was like, "What are you doing?"

   17. MCMagnus Carlsen32:02

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       Like, what are- I was like- I think I was 22 or 23 at the time, and I was like, "What are you doing?" And they were explaining to me that they're playing chess, memorizing the board in their head. And I'm like, "That's fucking crazy." And then I saw a video of you blindfolded playing how many people? How many- how many people did you play? What was the most people you've ever played blindfolded?

   19. MCMagnus Carlsen32:22

       I think I've played 12, uh, but the world record is something like 50.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:26

       (laughs)

   21. MCMagnus Carlsen32:26

       It's- that's- that's- that's crazy. Like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:30

       12? You've played 12 people blindfolded?

   23. MCMagnus Carlsen32:33

       Yeah, um, uh, for me that's... Uh, as long as people are, uh, the people I'm playing are kind of decent at chess, that actually kind of make- that makes it easier because it's easier to store the games when I recognize the patterns and so on. When people start making weird moves that I cannot really recognize-

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:53

       So, here you are.

   25. MCMagnus Carlsen32:53

       Oh, so this- this is another one, actually. This is a blindfold timed simul, like there are fewer games, but what's difficult about these is that the moves do not come to me in a sequence. So, like, uh, the presenter will tell me, "On boo- on board, um, two, E takes D5." And then all of a sudden, "On board one, E6."

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:16

       Oh, right.

   27. MCMagnus Carlsen33:16

       And then on board- on board two again, and so on. So that- that makes a bit, um...

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:21

       Oh, so you have to jump back and forth. So in the other games there's a sequence where the player, even though if they know what move they're going to take, they must wait until their turn.

   29. MCMagnus Carlsen33:29

       Ex- exactly.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:30

       Yeah.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MCMagnus Carlsen45:00

      I, I always thought that I would get into golf later in life, and then I decided more or less a year ago that I was gonna start, and now I am obsessed, and it's all I want to do. (laughs) So-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:10

      Yeah.

   3. MCMagnus Carlsen45:11

      ... I can, I can, I can-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:12

      See, that's the problem.

   5. MCMagnus Carlsen45:12

      ... 100%, I can 100% relate, but my wife knows that I'm so happy when I come back from golf that it's, like, better if I get to do it, uh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:22

      Mmm.

   7. MCMagnus Carlsen45:22

      ... quite often.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:23

      Yeah. Even as you fake being happy so you can keep doing it. (laughs)

   9. NANarrator45:28

      (laughs)

   10. MCMagnus Carlsen45:28

       No, no, no. Like, s- s- ... Yeah, um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:31

       They say that's ruining Canelo Alvarez, you know? There's been a lot of criticism in the boxing world, and particularly, in like, you know, some of his promoters and things along those lines where they've criticized his, his ... He's obsessive. He plays every day, even when he's in camp.

   12. NANarrator45:46

       Yeah, it's a tricky thing. If they do that with him, and I s- I s- obviously see them do it with Trump, but they're ... To ... Uh, you have to golf to understand what golfing does to you. It appears from the outside that people are drinking and smoking pot and having a good old time out there and giggling around, farting around with their friends, but the touch grass, meditative element, it truly is, like he was saying, like, I'm in such a crazy good mood after golf. Everybody at the comedy club can notice it. Like, it's like an upper ... It gives you a m- massive burst of energy. So like, the, the ... What am I thinking of? The, uh, you know, just the bad reputation that golf has-

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:32

       Mm-hmm.

   14. NANarrator46:33

       ... like I would want my president golfing a couple times a week knowing the effects that it gives you, a much clearer mind, a big burst of energy. You would think it would be exhausting walking around the woods or grass for four hours, but for some reason, it's totally the opposite. It's, it's ... Whether it's the sun, the grass, the this, the that, the differential going from a powerful thing to a mid-range thing to the delicate touch and accuracy of putting, these repetitive things, for some reason, it, it's a mind clearer and kind of an energy giver-

   15. JRJoe Rogan47:09

       Mmm.

   16. NANarrator47:09

       ... whereas video games and other things make you depressed. N- I don't ... You know, it's almost impossible to be down or depressed after golfing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan47:17

       Mmm. Well, it's, it's certainly a stimulating game, right? 'Cause you're ... It's hand-eye coordination, calculation, you know, managing the, the lay of the land, the way the rolls of the hills are-

   18. NANarrator47:31

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan47:31

       ... and all those factors. I think, like, this is something that I think people genuinely need in life.

   20. NANarrator47:37

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan47:37

       And I think it's one of the reasons why people respect chess so much, is because they know how difficult it is, and they know that all this is going on and that they see you two just staring at the board, looking at these pieces and, and calculating this insane number of possibilities that could emit from each individual move. It's like, that stimulation w- when, when someone gets good at a game, I think it's very valuable for you, and I think that can apply to all sorts of things in life. So I agree with you. I would want the president to play golf too.

   22. NANarrator48:09

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan48:09

       I'd want him to find something, whatever it is. Find a thing that you can excel at other than just being the president.

   24. NANarrator48:15

       Yeah.

   25. MCMagnus Carlsen48:16

       Yeah, even if it was Call of Duty.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:17

       Yeah.

   27. MCMagnus Carlsen48:18

       Like, if-

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:18

       That would be wild.

   29. MCMagnus Carlsen48:18

       If it m-

   30. NANarrator48:19

       (laughs)
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Wow. …

   1. MCMagnus Carlsen1:00:00

      like, just a couple pawns, one square forward, and then he started developing his pieces very slowly. So, at fir- at first I thought this guy has no idea what he- he's doing. Then it turned out, like, he actually had a system. So, after, like, 10, 15 moves, I was in a lot of trouble. Uh, and then l- and then, like, the game became super, uh, concrete and tactical and- and- and I- uh, and I won. Um, but it... Yeah, it struck me that this guy, like, had... It just... I think he just played in a park all his life, so he had developed a certain system-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

      Wow.

   3. MCMagnus Carlsen1:00:36

      ... that was actually, like, kind of effective if you don't know what you're doing, uh, against him. So that was- that was kind of- kind of interesting. I- I'm like... He was fairly old, so I'm sure he'd played chess his whole life without ever learning any kind of opening theory or- or something like that. He just had... Yeah, he was doing his own thing.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

      That's fascinating. Did- c- can you ever learn something from people that have an un- unorthodox approach like that?

   5. MCMagnus Carlsen1:01:00

      Oh yeah, for sure.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

      Yeah.

   7. MCMagnus Carlsen1:01:01

      Um, it's- it's happened several times. Um, there was, um... There was... Like, my dad used to play a ton of chess at home. Like, he used to have a home office and then certain times he'd appear to be, um, focused on his- in his work, but I knew, like, a certain look in his eye which told me that (laughs) he was actually playing chess. So, I would go over and- and watch. He'd be like, "Yeah."And, and then at some point where I was already a lot better than him, um, he played a certain opening as, as white. And I told him, like, "What, what is this opening? Like, where did you learn this?" And he said, "Well, you taught me the very same opening, but with the black pieces. So I thought I was gonna play it as white, like, with, with, um, one tempo more, right? Because you're playing your moving first." I was like, "I n- like, I never, like ... I'm one of the best players in the world and I never thought of that." So I actually took up that line and I, (laughs) and I used it, uh, I used it with success against some of the best players in the world.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:02:05

      Wow.

   9. MCMagnus Carlsen1:02:06

      So I've ... Like, I've ... I don't know if that variation has a name. Like, I've seen some other players play it afterwards as well. Uh, but I just call it the, um, the Henry Carlson variation.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

       (laughs)

   11. (laughs)

   12. That's really interesting.

   13. MCMagnus Carlsen1:02:19

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:19

       Your dad must be pretty proud of that.

   15. MCMagnus Carlsen1:02:21

       He, he is very proud. Yeah. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:23

       (laughs)

   17. (laughs)

   18. MCMagnus Carlsen1:02:23

       It, it's funny though that my, my, my dad and my, my sisters. My, m- two of my sisters, they, they played a bit of competitive, um, chess as well. Um, I think at some point in time, like, I, uh, they wanted to learn a couple of openings, so I taught them a couple of openings. And I think all of them just never played anything (laughs) anything else, uh, basically. So they, they certainly didn't have the same kind of passion to, um, uh, to study, but I'm glad I was able to, um, to push them into, um, to some, some decent lines at the very least.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:57

       How do you decide what opening to choose?

   20. MCMagnus Carlsen1:03:01

       Um ...

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:03:03

       (sighs)

   22. And do you ever decide an opening and go, "Fuck, I shouldn't done that one"?

   23. MCMagnus Carlsen1:03:06

       Yeah, yeah, sometimes. Honestly, uh, sometimes I, I don't know what to do, so I just randomize because I think, um, a- a- at a certain time, like, you might think that against this opponent, you should play a little bit of a m- more of an aggressive opening. But then maybe I feel good about my tournament standings, I don't wanna mess that up. So it's easier to go for a safer approach when, like, the optimal approach would be a bit more aggressive. And then, like, if you randomize it, then you will occasionally go for the, for the more aggressive r- approach. So that's what I sometimes do, is just I randomize it and then I just sort of accept the, the outcome. And it makes me more, um, more unpredictable. It makes me harder to, um, to prepare against, um, as well. So that's what I sometimes do. It's not like ... It's not gonna be out there.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:03

       Mm-hmm.

   25. MCMagnus Carlsen1:04:04

       But it's gonna be between, like, two or three options that I, I think are roughly equivalent. They're just sty- stylistically different.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:12

       So when you say randomize, like, how many openings do you have that you pursue on a regular basis?

   27. MCMagnus Carlsen1:04:19

       Oh, it's n- it's hard to ... That's hard to say. Um, probably, probably with white I have, like, uh, five or six options that I can, that I can go to, but only, like, two or three that I, I feel really good about. And I think similarly, um, similarly w- with black.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:04:39

       So, and then when you randomize, you just go in your head and one of 'em stands out for you and you say, "Okay, this is it"?

   29. MCMagnus Carlsen1:04:45

       No, uh, no, I just, like, have an app on my phone and I, I just-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:04:47

       Oh, really? That's a real ...
6. 1:15:00 – 1:23:05

   Yeah, I think so.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      And that you've just had a more healthy approach?

   2. MCMagnus Carlsen1:15:02

      Yeah, I think so. Um, uh, it, it just makes everything a bit, bit easier. Um, also, honestly, like, the randomizing opening choices has made, uh, has made things easier as, um, as well. Uh, everything just to, to sort of, yeah, lower the pressure a bit.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:20

      Have you ever consulted a mental coach or, uh, you know, someone who, uh, w- works with people on mindsets to try to capture what is happening when you are in that complete total flow state of laser focusedness, and try to recreate that? Because there's a bunch of different mind coaches that will tell you for a bunch of different pursuits that... What you have to do is when you get to that state, whatever that state is, recognize that you're there and then try to m- get a map of the territory and try to will yourself back into that thing. But then there's another school of thought that says, "No, it just has to happen organically," and that you just have- you just need to be obsessed and focused and take care of yourself and meditate. And just when it comes, it's going to come, but it just- you have to accept that it's a gift and it's just not always gonna be there.

   4. MCMagnus Carlsen1:16:22

      Yeah, I'm definitely the- in the latter camp. Um, I've talked to people who have suggested mental coaches, like, plenty of, plenty of times, um, both in, in the past and, and more recently as well. I've just, like, always been worried that somebody's gonna mess something up in, in, in my head.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:16:42

      Mm.

   6. MCMagnus Carlsen1:16:42

      Perhaps-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:16:43

      Analysis by analysis.

   8. MCMagnus Carlsen1:16:43

      Yeah. That, that, that's really, that's really what it is for me. So, I feel... At some point, I'm, I'm just, like, more or less content with the way things, things are. That most days that I'm playing, I'm going to be fairly good. On some days, I'm going to be at my very best. The other days, I'm going to be very far from, from my best. And it's, it's sort of... Yeah, it's sort of the, the way it is. I, I, I'm much- definitely much more open to doing things to prevent me from having tho- those very worst days because that- those are the ones that really, um, that really hurt you. Especially now that we're playing a lot of faster tournaments, uh, where there are, where there are, um, knockouts. Where basically, like, if you have one bad day, you're, you're out and it doesn't matter. Um, like, back in the days with classical tournaments, like, you could, you could have a really bad day, uh, but then you can always bounce back. But nowadays, it's not, it's not that easy.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:17:44

      Do you ever try to map out what are the factors that lead you to hit that state, that s- that flow state? Do you ever try to think about your day? Like, what did I do? What did I eat? How, how did I sleep? Did I avoid toxic people around me? Did I stay offline? Like, what did I do that allowed me to get to that spot?

   10. MCMagnus Carlsen1:18:01

       Um, yeah. I mean, doing everything sort of right before the game (laughs) definitely helps. Like getting, um, getting, getting good s- good sleep, like reading, reading a book instead of being on, on some sort of device before I go t- go to sleep. Um, then just focusing as little as possible on, on chess before, um, before the game, definitely, um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:18:24

       Really? Little as possible?

   12. MCMagnus Carlsen1:18:26

       Yeah. Um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:18:26

       'Cause you want it to be fresh in your mind? You want it to be in s- something exciting?

   14. MCMagnus Carlsen1:18:30

       Yeah, I just, I just wanna have, like, two or three ideas of what I'm, what I'm going to play and not... Like, m- I, I, I just don't wanna, like, use mental energy that I could have used on the game (laughs) -

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:18:46

       Right.

   16. MCMagnus Carlsen1:18:46

       ... be- before.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:18:47

       Right. Right.

   18. MCMagnus Carlsen1:18:48

       So, um, uh, I think one of my better tournaments that I played, um, it's... I used to play every year at this, um, seaside resort in, in the Netherlands, and it's in the middle of winter, so it's not very resort-like. It's just, um, rainy and windy, and there's basically nothing there except this big tournament that's been there for, for 80 years. And it's for three weeks every, every January. So for me, there's not, there is not a lot to do. Uh, so what I would do, like, every day is I'd, um, I'd, um, I'd wake up, I'd go for a walk, um, and then I would watch, like, uh, 30 to 45 minutes of, um, NBA highlights from the day before-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:19:40

       (laughs)

   20. MCMagnus Carlsen1:19:40

       ... look at chess for, for 15 minutes, whatever my coach has sent me of preparation that we d- discussed the b- day before. Um, eat and then, and then go play. And, um, that worked really, really well. It's just keeping it as simple as possible, honestly.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:19:57

       So, get inspired a little bit, a little bit of energy from watching NBA highlights, right?

   22. MCMagnus Carlsen1:20:02

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:20:02

       Just a tiny amount of information from the coach, just like, get your brain locked in, but not too much energy. Don't focus too much on it.

   24. MCMagnus Carlsen1:20:11

       Yeah. Uh, a lot of people like they do, they will spend three, four hours preparing on a game on that very day. Uh, and it like, it can be beneficial like if your opponent goes into specifically the lines that you prepared and so on. But overall, I think, um, yeah. Having, having, having a fresh mind is, is so important. Um, and I'm also like even if I- I haven't had the perfect preparation like, I'm really good at just blocking everything out, forgetting everything that's happened and just focusing there and then. Uh, but it's still not as good of course as just being, um, in, in a good state of mind.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:20:57

       Do you ever get to the point where you feel burnout where you wanna just take days off, a week off, and not think about chess, not touch a chessboard? Or is it just constantly playing in the background no matter what you do?

   26. MCMagnus Carlsen1:21:10

       But I- I really love it so... (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:21:12

       (laughs) Why take time off?

   28. MCMagnus Carlsen1:21:13

       Yeah, why take...

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:21:14

       (laughs)

   30. MCMagnus Carlsen1:21:15

       No, no, no. I'm- I'm fine with taking, uh, breaks from- from tournaments and so on. Um, but having like at least days, several days in a row without like looking at a chess game, um, or... I mean, I don't have to play every day, but not- having a- having a... Yeah. Not looking at anything, like never reading some chess stuff or like... Yeah. I mean, it's- it's my favorite hobby, so I- I don't, um... Yeah. I- I don't see why I would wanna do that.

Episode duration: 2:17:37