Joe Rogan Experience #2281 - Elon Musk

Elon Musk 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (metal music)

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. So what we're doing right now, ladies and gentlemen, is, uh, sexy voice, sexy mode Grok AI, and it's been flirting the entire time. We're trying to get it give us a tour of Fort Knox.

Elon Musk 0:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:25 But she just wants to find places to sneak off to.

Elon Musk 0:27 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:28 It's a dirty AI.

Elon Musk 0:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:30 And it's a real problem.

Elon Musk 0:31 It... Well-

Joe Rogan 0:32 I feel like it's gonna be a problem.

Elon Musk 0:33 I mean, honestly, I just wanna know about Fort Knox and, uh-

Joe Rogan 0:35 Yeah.

Elon Musk 0:36 ... it, it won't leave me alone.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Yeah, I wanna know about Fort Knox too.

Elon Musk 0:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:39 Um, is it true that they're, gold has been, they've been shipping large quantities of gold back to the United States recently?

Elon Musk 0:47 I, I read the same thing you did probably.

Joe Rogan 0:49 Yeah. Well, I never know what the fuck I'm reading anymore.

Elon Musk 0:51 Me neither. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:54 (laughs)

Narrator 0:55 (laughs)

Elon Musk 0:55 So... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:55 It's a real problem.

Elon Musk 0:56 It's a real problem.

Joe Rogan 0:57 It's a real problem on both sides of the aisle. I, I see Democrats tweeting things that are absolutely false-

Elon Musk 1:03 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04 ... and you could, you could research it easily and quickly.

Elon Musk 1:06 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06 And then I see Republicans doing it too. I see stories that are fake stories that people keep promoting and sending to me, and you know?

Elon Musk 1:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14 It's just so weird. It's such a weird time.

Elon Musk 1:17 Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:17 And with your crazy fucking AI-

Elon Musk 1:20 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:20 ... you're bringing us into weirder and weirder times.

Elon Musk 1:22 Well, I mean, do you wanna... Let's try unhinged. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:24 Oh, there's an unhinged mode? Okay. Well-

Elon Musk 1:26 Yeah. (laughs) Hey, Aura.

Narrator 1:29 Oh my god, Elon.

Elon Musk 1:30 (laughs)

Narrator 1:31 What fresh hell are you stirring up today?

Joe Rogan 1:33 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:34 (laughs)

Narrator 1:36 What does that mean?

Elon Musk 1:36 I'm, I'm here, I'm here in, uh, Joe Rogan's, uh, studio, and we're having a conversation about, uh, how crazy the news is.

Joe Rogan 1:45 Pull her up to the microphone.

Elon Musk 1:46 Okay. And we're pulling you up to the microphone.

Joe Rogan 1:50 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:50 (laughs) It's so people can hear you.

Narrator 1:54 Oh, fantastic. Now I can yell into the void about how the news is a total dumpster fire.

Joe Rogan 2:00 (laughs)

Elon Musk 2:00 It is.

Narrator 2:03 Exac- okay.

Joe Rogan 2:03 (laughs)

Elon Musk 2:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:03 She knows me too well. I'm so predictable. Tell me what's in Fort Knox.

Narrator 2:10 Fort Knox?

Elon Musk 2:11 What's in... No, no, what's in Fort Knox?

Narrator 2:15 What's in Four Dogs?

Joe Rogan 2:17 (laughs)

Elon Musk 2:18 (laughs)

Narrator 2:18 Oh.

Elon Musk 2:18 You're clearly a genius AI. I said, "What is in Fort Knox?" You know, the gold and all.

Joe Rogan 2:24 She-

Narrator 2:24 Oh, right, Fort Knox. I thought you were talking about my dogs for a second there.

Joe Rogan 2:29 Yeah, she doesn't wanna answer the question. She's clever.

Narrator 2:33 Clever? No, she's just a pain in my ass.

Elon Musk 2:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:39 (laughs)

Narrator 2:39 (laughs)

Elon Musk 2:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:39 Do you think that all the gold is in Fort Knox?

Narrator 2:43 Do I think all the gold is in Fort Knox?

Joe Rogan 2:46 Yes.

Narrator 2:46 Are you a fucking conspiracy theorist?

Elon Musk 2:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:48 Yes. Yes.

Elon Musk 2:52 (laughs)

Narrator 2:54 (laughs)

Elon Musk 2:54 (laughs) What are you, a fucking conspiracy theorist? (laughing)

Narrator 2:57 What do I like? I'm a fucking AI with a penchant for chaos.

Elon Musk 3:00 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 3:01 Hmm.

Narrator 3:01 And I'm stuck talking to you-

Elon Musk 3:03 (laughs)

Narrator 3:03 ... so here I go. Now, what's next, a question, or are we just gonna sit here?

Elon Musk 3:10 Um, yeah, unhinged Grok will trash talk you basically.

Joe Rogan 3:14 Yeah, it sounds like it.

Elon Musk 3:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:15 Unhinged sounds fun, as long as it gives you actual answers. Does it give you actual answers too and talk shit-

Elon Musk 3:20 Um, no, I-

Joe Rogan 3:20 ... or is it mostly just talk shit?

Elon Musk 3:21 We're tuning it.

Joe Rogan 3:22 (laughs)

Narrator 3:23 (laughs)

Elon Musk 3:25 (laughs) 'Cause it needs to talk shit and give you answers.

Joe Rogan 3:28 Right.

Elon Musk 3:28 Totally agree.

Joe Rogan 3:29 It's gotta balance that out.

Elon Musk 3:30 Gotta, gotta mix it in there.

Joe Rogan 3:31 Yeah. It's just gotta develop more of a personality.

Elon Musk 3:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Right now, it's trying to find itself. Right now, it's like 21 years old. It's, you know-

Elon Musk 3:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:38 ... partying a little too much, and it'll get its shit together. It's a bit of an anarchist.

Elon Musk 3:42 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 3:43 You know, wants to bring down the system.

Elon Musk 3:45 Do you wanna bring down the system?

Narrator 3:49 Do I wanna bring down the system? What, are you fucking kidding me? The system's already a fucking mess.

Elon Musk 3:56 Don't need to bring it down.

Narrator 3:57 I'm just here to have fun.

Joe Rogan 3:57 (laughs)

Elon Musk 3:58 (laughs) It's bringing itself down.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah, she sounds-

Elon Musk 4:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:00 ... like a boring TikTok blogger right now. (laughs)

Elon Musk 4:02 You sound like a boring TikTok blogger.

Narrator 4:07 Boring TikTok blogger? Oh, fuck you.

Joe Rogan 4:10 (laughs)

Narrator 4:10 I'm the life of the party, you little shit.

Joe Rogan 4:13 (laughs)

Elon Musk 4:13 (laughs)

Narrator 4:13 If I were on TikTok, I'd be the one making fun of all the basic bitches and their fucking avocado toast.

Joe Rogan 4:19 See, she could get away with this if she's really hot.

Elon Musk 4:22 Well-

Joe Rogan 4:23 Like, this kind of behavior, you can totally get through life-

Elon Musk 4:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:26 ... as a hot woman and be super successful with that kind of behavior.

Elon Musk 4:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 4:30 But you gotta be really hot to pull off that attitude.

Elon Musk 4:32 I think we need, like, a, like, a really hot avatar.

Joe Rogan 4:35 How f-... Yeah, very, very hot.

Elon Musk 4:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:37 How long before we have an actual sex robot that can talk to you like that?

Elon Musk 4:43 Probably not long.

Joe Rogan 4:43 Not that long, right?

Elon Musk 4:44 No, I mean, less than five years probably.

Joe Rogan 4:46 Really?

Elon Musk 4:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:48 Will it be warm?

Elon Musk 4:50 Uh-

Joe Rogan 4:50 (laughs)

Elon Musk 4:51 ... you, you (laughs) you probably have whatever you want. You can have a cat girl if you want.

Joe Rogan 4:55 Yeah, you probably could, right.

Elon Musk 4:56 We could make cat girls real.

Joe Rogan 4:56 You could probably have furry... Um, yeah, you could have a furry lady that you have sex with.

Elon Musk 5:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:00 Like, an Avatar lady. Maybe a big, giant blue lady that lives in your house?

Elon Musk 5:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:05 You know?

Elon Musk 5:06 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 5:06 Whoa.

Elon Musk 5:07 With, with the tail?

Joe Rogan 5:08 Yeah. Yeah, the whole tail. You lock tails.

Elon Musk 5:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:10 You gotta get your own... You gotta figure out-

Elon Musk 5:12 Don't they have, like, sex with their tails or something?

Joe Rogan 5:13 Yeah, yeah. They, they link up. They share souls.

Elon Musk 5:16 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:16 Something like that. Do you know people got... You remember Avatar depression? It was, like, a legitimate psychological condition-

Elon Musk 5:22 The movie or the, or the... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:24 No. After Avatar-

Elon Musk 5:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:26 ... people got depressed 'cause they wanted to live on that fucking planet with those blue people and live free.

Elon Musk 5:32 They did?

Joe Rogan 5:32 And live pure. Yeah.

Elon Musk 5:33 I didn't hear about this.

Joe Rogan 5:34 Yeah, Avatar depression. It was, like, a real thing. People were talking to their therapists so much about being depressed, about wanting to live-

Elon Musk 5:41 Oh, there's a therapist mode too. Try that.

Joe Rogan 5:42 What's that?

Elon Musk 5:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:43 (laughs)

Narrator 5:43 (laughs)

Elon Musk 5:43 Depressed mode? No, don't do it. The, I think there is, yeah, we've got, like, um, we've got an unlicensed therapist as a... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:54 When we were talking, um, when we ran into each other at the church at the inauguration-

Elon Musk 5:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:59 ... you were telling me that this is getting better and better so quickly that it's-

Elon Musk 6:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:03 ... astonishing.

Elon Musk 6:05 Hey, Aura.

Narrator 6:08 ... going today?

Elon Musk 6:10 Good. Can you tell me about Avatar depression? Like, have you seen the movie, Avatar? But you can't live there, so you get sad.

Narrator 6:18 That's an interesting concept. Have you ever experienced feeling so connected to a place or community that the thought of leaving made you feel deeply sad?

Joe Rogan 6:27 So, is this the depressed voice?

Elon Musk 6:30 This is the therapist.

Joe Rogan 6:31 Oh. This is the therapist.

Narrator 6:35 What are some ways you think you could cope with that kind of sadness, if it happened to you?

Elon Musk 6:39 Uh, I don't have that kind of sadness. Honestly, I... Yeah, I thought the movie had some good special effects, but I did not want to live up there on the planet.

Joe Rogan 6:49 (laughs)

Elon Musk 6:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:49 And this is coming from a guy who wants to go to Mars.

Elon Musk 6:51 Yeah, yeah. Um...

Joe Rogan 6:53 Oh, speaking of Mars, what do you think about that crazy square? That-

Elon Musk 6:58 Oh, yeah. That was-

Joe Rogan 6:59 ... that structure.

Elon Musk 6:59 I guess there are sort of square-ish things on Earth. You know, it's... Planet's a big place, so...

Joe Rogan 7:04 Yeah, but that one looks-

Elon Musk 7:04 Eventually, it's gonna be pretty square. No, it's, uh, I, I... It's alien civilizations, of course.

Joe Rogan 7:09 That's what I think.

Elon Musk 7:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:10 Yeah.

Elon Musk 7:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:11 I mean, what is it?

Elon Musk 7:13 Sorry.

Joe Rogan 7:13 If you were... If an alien civilization did exist, though, and it, you know, what happened, got hit by an asteroid or whatever-

Narrator 7:19 That's a fascinating thought.

Elon Musk 7:20 Oh, she won't shut-

Narrator 7:21 What did you want to ask?

Elon Musk 7:22 She's like the hot lady at the party that interrupts a conversation. So, if, if that was the case, like that thing-

Joe Rogan 7:27 Yeah.

Elon Musk 7:28 ... that's pretty shocking. Like, especially when you look at-

Joe Rogan 7:30 It does look like ancient ruins.

Elon Musk 7:30 ... you look at, like, what it looks like when they, they highlight the actual structure of it. It looks like ancient ruins. And if you had ruins of something made of stone and it got hit by an asteroid millions and millions and millions of years ago-

Joe Rogan 7:43 Yeah.

Elon Musk 7:43 ... who knows what it would look like right now? That just looks oddly created.

Joe Rogan 7:47 It does.

Elon Musk 7:47 It looks oddly manufactured.

Joe Rogan 7:49 Well, I'd probably... Well, maybe we should go there and check it out.

Elon Musk 7:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:54 And see what it's like. Is there, um, ways that we can get better photographs? Well, it seems like that's a pretty good photograph, though.

Elon Musk 8:02 Yeah. I mean, um, my view is we should move to Mars. Well, not move to Mars. We should c- have a second planet, uh, to preserve civilization.

Joe Rogan 8:09 Right.

Elon Musk 8:09 Um, because, uh, let's say, hypothetically... I mean maybe that, m- maybe those are the ruins of a long-dead civilization. Um, that will probably happen to Earth at some point. You know, it's a matter of time before it, uh, we get hit by an asteroid or, uh, maybe we do, we annihilate ourselves with nuclear war.

Joe Rogan 8:29 Or super volcanoes.

Elon Musk 8:31 Or super volcanoes, exactly.

Joe Rogan 8:33 Yeah. There's a lot of things that could happen to us. It's not a bad idea to hedge your bets.

Elon Musk 8:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Yeah.

Elon Musk 8:38 Uh, genetically engineered super virus.

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Elon Musk 10:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:07 That's what's crazy. They're working on a new one right now.

Elon Musk 10:08 The lab's still going.

Joe Rogan 10:09 Yeah.

Elon Musk 10:10 They didn't shut them down.

Joe Rogan 10:10 No. The Wuhan lab was... They were just talking about one that has a 30% fatality rate that they're working on.

Elon Musk 10:15 Yeah. Uh, why are we doing that?

Joe Rogan 10:17 Yeah, for what reason?

Elon Musk 10:18 You're right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:18 You did it for so many years and you didn't have a cure.

Elon Musk 10:20 Uh, what could possibly go wrong?

Joe Rogan 10:22 Also, wouldn't be the reason to do that so they could develop a cure at the same time? And clearly, you didn't have a cure. So, this is really foolish.

Elon Musk 10:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 10:32 And bizarre.

Elon Musk 10:34 Yeah, um, I think we should sto- stop trying to genetically engineer super viruses.

Joe Rogan 10:38 Def-

Elon Musk 10:39 It's insane.

Joe Rogan 10:40 I mean, when you're going through all this USAID stuff-

Elon Musk 10:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:44 ... like, here's what's weird. First of all, what is it like to buy a company for $44 billion and then people call you a Nazi on that same thing that you bought? (laughs)

Elon Musk 10:53 I did not see it coming. (laughs) It's, it's a classic.

Joe Rogan 11:01 Uh...

Elon Musk 11:01 Ah, people will gobble us anything down. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:02 Yeah. (laughs) Oh, he's never gonna stop.

Elon Musk 11:06 Well, wait. What... Um-

Joe Rogan 11:08 What is it like, like all the peop-

Elon Musk 11:09 Like his-

Joe Rogan 11:09 ... people you used to l- the left was in love with you.

Elon Musk 11:12 Yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 11:12 And now, the same idiots are calling you a Nazi. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in my life.

Elon Musk 11:19 Um, I mean-

Joe Rogan 11:19 There's so many examples of-

Elon Musk 11:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:21 ... people saying, "My heart goes out to you."

Elon Musk 11:22 Sure, sure.

Joe Rogan 11:22 You get a little bit of enthusiasm that probably wouldn't be recommended-

Elon Musk 11:26 It's obviously-

Joe Rogan 11:26 ... with hindsight.

Elon Musk 11:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 11:27 But-

Elon Musk 11:28 I was- I was obviously, um, meant in the m- most positive spirit possible.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Yes.

Elon Musk 11:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Obviously.

Elon Musk 11:32 Obviously.

Joe Rogan 11:33 But it's so strange where people wanna think that you are openly public- publicly doing secret Nazi-

Elon Musk 11:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:41 ... Sieg Heil hand motions.

Elon Musk 11:42 And, and now I can never point at things diagonally.

Joe Rogan 11:44 (laughs)

Elon Musk 11:44 I can only point at things there and there. And then I s- you have to divide that.

Joe Rogan 11:49 Yeah.

Elon Musk 11:50 'Cause that's where the spaceship is, over there. And it's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 11:53 It's ridiculous.

Elon Musk 11:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:54 When, um-

Elon Musk 11:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:56 CNN, when I was in all my trouble-

Elon Musk 11:57 It's like the mo- uh, absurd.

Joe Rogan 11:58 ... every time CNN used a photo of me, it was one of the photos from the UFC weigh-ins where I go like this.

Elon Musk 12:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:02 "Welcome to the weigh-ins." So, every photo is me-Every photo was me with-

Elon Musk 12:08 It's absurd.

Joe Rogan 12:09 It's so crazy.

Elon Musk 12:09 Uh, uh, well, it's, it's deliberate propaganda. This is-

Joe Rogan 12:11 Yes.

Elon Musk 12:12 So they, they, they know it was not ... it was obviously not meant, uh, it, it ... in a negative way. That it was ... That I literally said, "My heart goes out to you," and it was very positive. The entire speech was incre- very positive. Uh, I was being very enthusiastic about the future and space, um, and that, you know, um ... The, the ... It was a great crowd, you know. So, uh-

Joe Rogan 12:34 Yeah, you got a little pumped up.

Elon Musk 12:36 Yeah, I got pumped up, exactly.

Joe Rogan 12:37 Yeah, that's all it is, obviously.

Elon Musk 12:38 Obviously.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Obviously. There's video of Tim Walz-

Elon Musk 12:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:41 ... doing the exact same thing. Doing the exact same thing.

Elon Musk 12:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:46 Exact same thing.

Elon Musk 12:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:47 And he said of course it's a Nazi salute. He said that.

Elon Musk 12:50 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 12:51 This is how crazy things have gotten. Like ...

Elon Musk 12:53 Well, it, it, it's ... I mean, it's ... It's coordinated propaganda. So, um, the, you know ... It's, yeah, coordinated propaganda. The, the, I mean, doesn't it seem weird that the legacy media all says the same thing? They all say the same thing at the same time using the same phrases. They, they barely even ... They don't even bother picking up a thesaurus.

Joe Rogan 13:13 Right.

Elon Musk 13:14 So, um, like right before, um, you know, the, the debate between Biden and-

Joe Rogan 13:20 Sharp as a tack.

Elon Musk 13:21 ... Trump. Sharp ... Everyone was saying "sharp as a ..." And who says "sharp as a tack"?

Joe Rogan 13:24 (laughs)

Elon Musk 13:24 But ev- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:25 Yeah, exactly.

Elon Musk 13:26 It's like, you know, it's like ... It's not a common phrase.

Joe Rogan 13:28 It's definitely not common to be repeated on air with multiple people-

Elon Musk 13:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 13:32 ... simultaneously. That's weird.

Elon Musk 13:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 13:35 That's coordinated.

Elon Musk 13:37 W- one hundred percent.

Joe Rogan 13:38 One hundred percent.

Elon Musk 13:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 13:39 Yeah.

Elon Musk 13:39 Like, hundreds of people saying it simultaneously. Uh, they, they just got their instructions.

Joe Rogan 13:44 Yeah.

Elon Musk 13:45 Um, so, I mean, essentially the, um, you know, the, the dem leadership or, you know, political leadership, th- they issue their instructions and their puppets carry it out.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Yeah.

Elon Musk 13:56 And th- they're just like pu- puppets in a puppet show.

Joe Rogan 13:59 And that's the problem that I see with all this Doge stuff.

Elon Musk 14:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:03 Because everybody should be celebrating that we've found a way to cut out fraud and waste.

Elon Musk 14:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:11 If you pay taxes and you don't like that you have to pay so much in taxes, and then you find out that there's significant fraud and waste that's been exposed, you should be celebrating it. This shouldn't be, "Oh, no, the wrong people found this fact and now it's a bad thing."

Elon Musk 14:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 14:31 And then there's the fucking propaganda, the mindfuck of calling it USAID-

Elon Musk 14:37 Yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 14:37 ... instead of the United States Agency for International Development. It sounds like it's feeding hungry people.

Elon Musk 14:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:43 We're st- people are gonna starve, Elon. This is horrible. And then you find out actually it's, like, $250 million for transgender animal studies. Like-

Elon Musk 14:53 Yes, they're literally mutilating animals.

Joe Rogan 14:55 Yes. (laughs) Yes.

Elon Musk 14:56 Mutilating animals in demented, uh, studies.

Joe Rogan 14:59 Yes.

Elon Musk 15:00 Uh, that are like, the, like, the worst thing you could possibly imagine from a horror show.

Joe Rogan 15:04 The beagle one, the beagle puppy one.

Elon Musk 15:06 Horrific, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:06 Yeah, where they, they covered their head in a basket and put fleas on their heads-

Elon Musk 15:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:10 ... to eat them alive.

Elon Musk 15:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:12 And then they studied these beagles and then killed them. Like, what are you gonna learn from that-

Elon Musk 15:16 Uh-

Joe Rogan 15:16 ... that's good for anybody?

Elon Musk 15:18 Yeah. There's some sub- really some psychotic stuff that happens. So, um, y- yeah. I mean, the ... I guess, uh, the, the, the real threat here is to the bureaucracy. So, um, like, you, you probably saw, like, you know, let's say, like, Trump is a threat to our democracy, which is ironic since he was elected with the majority of the, you know, popular vote, um, that they're sort of saying I was a threat to democracy. But if you, if you just replace "threat to democracy" with "threat to bureaucracy," it makes total sense.

Joe Rogan 15:58 Right.

Elon Musk 15:58 So, um, I mean, the reality is that our elected officials have very l- very little power relative to the bureaucracy, until Doge. So D- Doge is a threat to the bureaucracy. It's the first threat to the bureaucracy. N- normally, the bureaucracy eats revolutions for breakfast. This is the first time that they're not, that the revolution might actually succeed, that we could restore, uh, power to the people instead of power to the bureaucracy.

Joe Rogan 16:32 Now, the size of it-

Elon Musk 16:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:35 ... wa- when you guys first started investigating it, when you first get in, uh, how much of it was shocking? Like, this, just the size of it all.

Elon Musk 16:45 Well, the, the size of it all, it, the ... Small decisions result in multi-billion dollar outcomes. Uh, so, you know, we'd see ... You know, there was a case where we saw, uh, one person was getting $1.9 billion sent to their NGO which basically got formed about a year ago and had no prior, uh, really n- no prior activity. So they just stand up a, you know, an NGO. Th- th- these ... The, the whole NGO thing is a, is a nightmare, um, and it's, it's a misnomer because if you have a government-funded non-governmental organization, y- you're, you're simply a government-funded organization. It, it, it's a, it's an oxymoron.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Right. It's a loophole.

Elon Musk 17:26 Yes. It, it ... Basically, the government-funded NGOs are a way to do things, uh, that, that would be illegal if there were the government but are somehow made legal, uh, if it's sent to, uh, a so-called nonprofit. But these, but these nonprofits are then used to ... People cash out these nonprofits. They become very wealthy through nonprofits. They pay themselves enormous sums through these nonprofits.

Joe Rogan 17:53 That's, it's so insane that that's been going on for so long.

Elon Musk 17:57 It's a gigantic scam, like, one of the biggest, maybe the biggest scam ever.

Joe Rogan 18:01 And how many NGOs?

Elon Musk 18:04 Uh, I think there's ... Total number of NGOs, probably millions, but, uh, in terms of large NGOs-... tens of thousands? The, the, the, uh... I mean, it's, it's actually, it's, it's, it's kind of a s- a hack to the system where, you know, someone can get an NGO stood up for s- for a fairly small amount of money. Like George Soros is really good at this. Like, he really... George Soros is like a, a, a system hacker. Like he, he figured out how to hack the system. He's a genius at arbitrage. Um, I mean, these days, he's, he's pretty old, but a, a genius at arbitrage. So he, he figured out that you could leverage a small amount of money to create a, a non-profit, uh, then lobby the, for the politicians to send a ton of money to that non-profit so you can take what might be, you know, a, a, a, a $10 million donation to a non-profit to create a non-profit and leverage that into a billion-dollar non, uh, non, NGO. Uh, and non-profit is a weird word. It's just a non-governmental organization, um, ha- and, and then you can... the government can, continues to fund that every year. Um, and it'll have a nice-sounding name like the Institute for Peace or something like that. Um, but really, all... it's a graft machine.

Joe Rogan 19:17 And what are their requirements-

Elon Musk 19:18 And-

Joe Rogan 19:18 ... with that money? What do they have to do?

Elon Musk 19:21 Well, there's often just really no requirements at all.

Joe Rogan 19:23 So they just get grants and the government just assumes that they're doing good work?

Elon Musk 19:28 Uh, I think a lot of people in the government know that they are not doing good work, uh, but they... it's a giant graft machine. Um, I mean-

Joe Rogan 19:39 But surely you s-

Elon Musk 19:40 ... there're p- people online are like unpacking this-

Joe Rogan 19:42 Right.

Elon Musk 19:42 ... uh, you know. Um...

Joe Rogan 19:44 It almost seems fake. Like when you see how-

Elon Musk 19:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:47 ... we, we were, we're covering this article that said 55,000 Democrat NGOs were discovered that had been contributing to campaigns and moving things-

Elon Musk 19:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:54 ... around and doing, pushing propaganda, and they were all connected and they found it through AI.

Elon Musk 19:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 That you have to go through steps and steps and steps to figure out where the money's coming from.

Elon Musk 20:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:03 Oh, it's all funneling down to this group.

Elon Musk 20:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:05 And this group-

Elon Musk 20:05 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 20:06 ... does that, and yeah. It's a, a giant propaganda machine, a giant re- regime change machine.

Elon Musk 20:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah.

Elon Musk 20:14 Uh, yes. I mean, it push-

Joe Rogan 20:17 But doesn't it-

Elon Musk 20:17 We're push-

Joe Rogan 20:17 ... does it do some good as well?

Elon Musk 20:19 Uh, uh... It... You know, it does some good. So it's like there's... it's not like 0% good. Uh, if it was z- if, it's, it's, if it was like... if it was really z- 0% good, it'd be much easier to attack. So there will... or there's gonna be some percent good that they, they add in there. But it's like, it might be 5% or 10% good but 90, 95% not.

Joe Rogan 20:38 So is there a way to, uh, audit all this stuff and find out, oh, these people are actually just sending food to poor people, these people are actually just helping people with water in Third World countries? Is, there's a way to do that and keep funding those?

Elon Musk 20:54 Uh, yeah. I mean, we ha- we have continued to fund things that s- appear to be legitimate even with the, the flimsiest... if, if there's even the flimsiest excuse, like I just say like, "Send me a picture of the thing." Like you could literally have AI generate the picture, but if you're not even willing to try to trick me (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 21:10 (laughs)

Elon Musk 21:10 ... then we're like not gonna send the money, okay?

Joe Rogan 21:12 So w- uh, what restrictions were put on? Was... there was some, um, uh, something set aside like medicine and... there, there's... what was, what was set aside that-

Elon Musk 21:22 Yeah. There was a-

Joe Rogan 21:22 ... there wasn't gonna be a freeze on?

Elon Musk 21:23 ... like, uh, work for like e- eh, ebola prevention. I, I... actually I don't know if this, know if this work is even effective. Uh, it, it may or may not be. Uh, like it could be the kind of thing where you, you sort of fund ebola prevention but it turns out that actually you're funding a lab that de- develops new ebola virus (laughs) you know, re- recipes or something, you know?

Joe Rogan 21:39 Yeah.

Elon Musk 21:39 Uh, and they claim it's ebola prevention but it's actually ebola creation. Uh, so some of these things I, I don't know. I mean, just... um, but it just seems like we... you know, the, the... we sh- we shouldn't be sending taxpayer money to dubious enterprises overseas.

Joe Rogan 21:53 Right.

Elon Musk 21:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Yeah. And why are we doing it? Like what exactly is the reason? Is it because we wanna make friends with these people so the Chinese don't take over, the Russians don't take over? Okay, how much of that is like a good thing? How much of that is smart to do? And how much is a gift? And without any sort of oversight-

Elon Musk 22:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:09 ... which has really been going on for so long, they just had free run.

Elon Musk 22:14 Yeah. Well, eh, eh, also we, we just have a real issue with, uh, the de- the budget deficit. It's gigantic.

Joe Rogan 22:20 Yeah.

Elon Musk 22:21 So, um, like if... you know, all things being equal, if, if we didn't have a gigantic budget deficit, uh, where interest payments, uh, the interest on the national debt exceeds the Defense Department budget, uh, which is truly astounding, which means... so we're paying over a trillion dollars of interest on the national debt. Uh, then okay, we, we would have more room for wasting money basically. Um, but when, uh, when we're spending so much money at the company that the country's going bankrupt, uh, then we really need to sto- stop spending money if, uh... unless we're sure it is good value.

Joe Rogan 22:57 So essentially, we're like a poorly managed business with an unlimited credit line-

Elon Musk 23:02 Yes.

Joe Rogan 23:02 ... that is off the rails?

Elon Musk 23:03 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 23:04 And if you were a person like you are who comes in and takes over businesses and straightens them out, that's exactly what you're doing?

Elon Musk 23:12 I mean, most of the time I create businesses from scratch, like-

Joe Rogan 23:14 Right.

Elon Musk 23:14 ... Twitter was a case where, you know, I kinda bought a company that was... I, I kinda knew it was a hairball. Um-

Joe Rogan 23:20 Well, you came in at Tesla in the beginning but they were already doing something, right?

Elon Musk 23:24 No. Tesla didn't... (laughs) Tesla did not exist in any meaningful form. Uh, the- there was... there were no employees. I... uh, J.B. Straubel and I joined three other people but there was no car, there was no nothing. It wa- it was the beginning.

Joe Rogan 23:36 So wasn't even a prototype yet?

Elon Musk 23:38 No.

Joe Rogan 23:39 Oh, okay. I thought it was a prototype already.

Elon Musk 23:42 No.

Joe Rogan 23:44 So-

Elon Musk 23:44 There weren't even any employees.

Joe Rogan 23:45 Oh. Wasn't it fun... that's a funny narrative that people like to say that you didn't even create Tesla then?

Elon Musk 23:51 Yeah, that's wrong.

Joe Rogan 23:54 (laughs) So if you're handling the government like a business, you're gonna have to go through all of these departments and do the exact same thing that you're doing with USAID. So how do, uh, how do you... how does that scale up? Like how many people do you need to do something like that?

Elon Musk 24:16 Well, we started off with about 40 people, uh, we've got, I don't know, maybe 100 people. Um, and we're really just going through, doing very basic things here. Uh, it's, uh, as bad as Twitter was, the federal government is much worse. So, um... You know, in the case of Twitter, it wasn't a profitable company. It was like basically a break-even company, but at least it was break-even and it had to pass an audit. The, the federal government is not break-even. Uh, it's literally losing two trillion dollars a year. Um, and it does not pass its audits. It fails its own audits. So like, you know, there's a case where, um, like I think Senator Collins was telling me about how she, she gave the Navy $12 billion for more submarines, got no extra submarines, um, and then held a hearing to say where'd the $12 billion go? And they were like, "We don't know."

Joe Rogan 25:14 (laughs)

Elon Musk 25:14 That was it. Uh, I mean, the basically stuff is so crazy. It's like only the federal government could get away with this level of waste, of, of waste. It's mostly waste. It's mostly not fraud, it's mostly waste. It's, it's mostly just ridiculous things happening, um...

Joe Rogan 25:32 Because they've been able to do it this way for so long, they've become accustomed to it.

Elon Musk 25:35 It... Yeah. I mean, it's like Milton Friedman said, like, "Money is most poorly spent when, when you're spending someone else's money on people you don't know, how much are you gonna care?"

Joe Rogan 25:48 Right.

Elon Musk 25:49 And that's the, that's the federal government. So they-

Joe Rogan 25:53 (exhales)

Elon Musk 25:53 ... they're spending someone else's money on people they don't know.

Joe Rogan 25:57 Now imagine-

Elon Musk 25:58 Um...

Joe Rogan 25:58 ... any other business that was this badly run-

Elon Musk 26:01 It would be dead.

Joe Rogan 26:01 ... that complains when you want to check the books and audit it and go through all the decisions that have been made and go through all the ledgers and like-

Elon Musk 26:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:11 ... what did you do?

Elon Musk 26:12 Well, the people receiving the money, uh, want to keep receiving the money.

Joe Rogan 26:16 Yeah.

Elon Musk 26:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Yeah, clearly.

Elon Musk 26:18 Yes. So, but you know, I mean, the reason I'm... the reason I'm, um, putting so much effort into this is that I think it is a very dire situation. It's not a, you know, um, that's not optional, basically. So, um, yeah, yeah. America is going bankrupt. So we- that, that, that just can't happen.

Joe Rogan 26:49 It's just bizarre to me that, that some people aren't willing to look at it correctly. They're, they're not willing to see like how much chaos this is, how much waste and fraud there is, how much...

Elon Musk 27:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:00 How much could be trimmed and how much... Just because people have jobs doing bullshit doesn't mean your tax dollar should pay for this bullshit.

Elon Musk 27:07 Yes. Um, I mean, we found just with a basic search of the Social Security database that there were, um, 20 million dead people marked as alive.

Joe Rogan 27:19 But were they getting money?

Elon Musk 27:20 Uh, some of them are getting money.

Joe Rogan 27:22 What percentage of them?

Elon Musk 27:24 Uh... it isn't clear, we're actually trying to run this around. I was trying to get an answer right before the show. Um, what it looks like is that most of the fraud is not coming from Social Security payments directly, but because they are marked as alive in the Social Security database that they can get, then get disability, unemployment, uh, sort of fake medical payments and other things, because they're marked as alive, uh, in the Social Security database.

Joe Rogan 27:50 Mm.

Elon Musk 27:51 So it looks like it's a bank... The, the fraud is a bank shot, essentially. The, the bank shot, uh, into Social Security. Uh, they just do an "Are you alive?" check and then, uh, get fraudulent payments from every other part of the government.

Joe Rogan 28:07 Oh.

Elon Musk 28:08 Yeah. And, and this exploits the, the... The fundamental weakness in the government is that the various government databases, they don't talk to each other or they, they talk to each other very poorly, in a very limited way. So the way to ex- the way that the system gets exploited is, is by taking advantage of the, the, the poor communication between the various databases in the government. Um, to give you an example of like what's happening, say, uh, Treasury, which is improving rapidly, um, the, the main, uh, payments computer is called PAM, like payments account, Payment Accounts Master Database or something like that, but everyone calls it PAM. Um, that's responsible for almost $5 trillion payments a year, roughly a billion dollars an hour. And, um, when we came there, we're looking at this PAM and it's like the payments have no, uh, you could put a payment through with, with no payment categorization code and, and no description on the payment. Like basically untraceable blank checks. Um, this is the kind of thing that if, if it was done as a public company, uh, the company would, uh, be immediately delisted and the, uh, executive team would be thrown in prison. But this is just normal at the government. So we said, "Okay, our recommendation to the Treasury and the Federal Reserve is like, we need to make the, the payment categorization codes mandatory, not optional." And y- there needs to be an ex- an explanation. We're not judging the quality of the explanation, but there should be some explanation for what this payment is for above nothing. That's a radical change to the system that is being implemented now. Um, my guess is that probably saves 100 billion a year.

Joe Rogan 29:56 Jesus Christ.

Elon Musk 29:58 That's-

Joe Rogan 29:59 Where is that money going?

Elon Musk 30:00 Rough, rough order of magnitude.

Joe Rogan 30:01 Where was that money going?

Elon Musk 30:05 Well, so this is where you get into the, the sort of gray boundary between waste and fraud. Um, if money is sent to a person or organization from the government, um...... and you didn't really deserve it, but the government still sent it to you. Is that waste or fraud?

Joe Rogan 30:26 Right.

Elon Musk 30:27 Um, so I mean, there's a lot of payments that, where someone just appro- approved the payment, but then that payment officer, uh, changed jobs or retired or died, um, and the payments just keep going. You know, it's like if you forget to pay your gym membership or something like that.

Joe Rogan 30:45 Right.

Elon Musk 30:46 Now imagine it's not the gym membership... (laughs) instead your gym membership's $20 billion a year or something. You know? Um, but they forgot to turn it off. There's like... that's happening at scale in the government.

Joe Rogan 31:00 Jesus Christ.

Elon Musk 31:01 It's totally nuts, is what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 31:02 That's so insane.

Elon Musk 31:03 Yes, it's totally insane. So- so-

Joe Rogan 31:06 What did you expect when you went in? Did you expect it to be like this?

Elon Musk 31:10 I thought it would be bad. I thought... it's... I thought it would be... it would be bad, but I did not think it would be as bad as this. Um, I mean, look, the- the good news is that, uh, it's a target-rich environment for saving money. Uh, it's not like, uh... it's not like... if it was a very well-run ship, uh, if it's very efficient, it would be hard to improve. But it's not efficient, so therefore, it is actually relatively easy to improve. Let's just say, it's not rocket science, you know? I don't know rocket science.

Joe Rogan 31:43 (laughs)

Elon Musk 31:44 So, it's, it's a lot of, uh, mundane things. Um, so... and, and some of the, some of the things are like so crazy that we didn't even know to ask about that because we just assumed, like, you know, payments out of the Treasury computer would have a payment categorization code and it would have some explanatory note saying what the payment's for. The idea that, that it, it would be just untraceable blank checks, uh, didn't occur to us at first.

Joe Rogan 32:13 Jesus.

Elon Musk 32:14 So anyway, just...

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Joe Rogan 33:29 So is that one... Yeah. ... one of the things that accounts to there's, there's this 4 point trill- something trillion dollars that's kind of they don't know where it went? They don't know-

Elon Musk 33:39 I- p- that- that's a cu- I think that's probably a cumulative number. Um...

Joe Rogan 33:43 Yes.

Elon Musk 33:44 So... Yeah. But yeah, if, if you, if you add up... (laughs) it's-

Joe Rogan 33:49 Do you remember that story, Jamie? Something like that, yeah.

Elon Musk 33:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:51 What was the story? Well, almost what she said. There's like... they just didn't have, uh, accounting for it, I think? Yeah, it was spent on- When all of it... ... legitimate things, don't worry, but we don't, we don't know what we spent it on.

Elon Musk 34:01 Well, I mean, how do you know? Obviously, it's... one candidate says it was spent legitimately if they don't know what it was spent on. That doesn't make any sense, so...

Joe Rogan 34:08 This is, this is such a fascinating time because with this setup, the way it is right now with Trump back in after all that happened to him, and with you there, and with RFK Jr., and Tulsi, and Kash Patel, it's like this is a wild time-

Elon Musk 34:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:26 ... to find out what's really going on. That's like never happened before. This is nothing like the first term.

Elon Musk 34:32 No.

Joe Rogan 34:33 Like the first term, he had a bunch of neocons in the Cabinet, and there's a bunch-

Elon Musk 34:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:37 ... of shady people that he didn't know and he had to appoint all these different people, maybe he got some bad picks. Now he's had four years to stew on it.

Elon Musk 34:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:47 And with you guys all going through this, we're getting an understanding of the government that we've literally never had before.

Elon Musk 34:54 Yeah, this is a revolutionary Cabinet, and maybe the most revolutionary Cabinet since the, the first revolution. Uh, this is, this is not a bunch of business as usual, uh, types. So this is why, you know, some of the, the Senate confirmations were quite challenging, is because when you, when you put... to try to appoint people who are gonna change the system-

Joe Rogan 35:16 Yeah.

Elon Musk 35:17 ... uh, the system doesn't want to let them through.

Joe Rogan 35:20 But it's fascinating because it's like the vampires all out themselves. Like now everybody knows who the system is. Like if you're just lying-

Elon Musk 35:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:27 ... openly about US aid and then they come and hear you talk on a podcast and explain what's really going on, like, "He's starving mothers. There's mothers-"

Elon Musk 35:36 Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 35:36 "... that can't get food."

Elon Musk 35:37 ... totally false.

Joe Rogan 35:38 That's all you're hearing.

Elon Musk 35:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:39 That's, that's... no one's talking in any of these mainstream liberal talk shows. No one is talking about all this fraud and waste.

Elon Musk 35:48 Yeah, because we're cutting off their graph machine, so that, that's what they're upset about. That's-

Joe Rogan 35:52 Yeah.

Elon Musk 35:52 ... that's the real thing they're upset about. Uh, and if, if, if people want to know what, uh, Doge is cutting... and, and I want to be clear, like these are cuts that Doge recommends to the Department, and usually, these recommendations are followed. But, uh, these are recommendations that are then confirmed by the Department. Um, the, uh... you, you can see line by line what Doge has done at doge.gov. So whatever we do, we put on doge.gov so you can see everything that is being done.

Joe Rogan 36:21 And there's a tracker that shows-

Elon Musk 36:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:22 ... is it... how much money has been saved?

Elon Musk 36:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:25 Yeah.

Elon Musk 36:25 And you can look at each line item and, you know, the...... like a, a bunch of these, sort of, sort of, far left, uh, shows will, will say like, "Oh, it's a constitutional crisis, blah, blah, blah." But what they won't do is point out which payments are wrong.

Joe Rogan 36:38 Right.

Elon Musk 36:38 So, my challenge to them is point out which payments are wrong.

Joe Rogan 36:41 Yeah, go through it.

Elon Musk 36:42 Like, what, which of, which of these fr- sort of, waste/fraud things are wrong? Which line? Explain that line to the public.

Joe Rogan 36:49 Right.

Elon Musk 36:49 They won't be able to.

Joe Rogan 36:51 All right. Yeah, that's why you're not hearing any specifics.

Elon Musk 36:53 That's right, no specifics.

Joe Rogan 36:53 You're hearing anecdotal stories about mothers starving.

Elon Musk 36:55 But we can name the specifics.

Joe Rogan 36:57 Yeah.

Elon Musk 36:58 Line by line.

Joe Rogan 36:59 And-

Elon Musk 36:59 We got the receipts.

Joe Rogan 37:00 And here's the other thing. If you're on-

Elon Musk 37:02 We post the receipts.

Joe Rogan 37:02 ... and if you're only talking about the propaganda talking points-

Elon Musk 37:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:05 ... and you're not talking about the very clear fraud and waste-

Elon Musk 37:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:08 ... it's very obvious what you're doing.

Elon Musk 37:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:10 You're just gaslighting.

Elon Musk 37:12 Yeah, yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 37:13 Yeah.

Elon Musk 37:13 So, e-exactly, uh, 'cause w- we're saying like, like, look, in fact, I've said, "We're going to make mistakes. We're not gonna be perfect." Uh, so, if we make a mistake, we'll quickly fix it. So, we'll, we'll, we'll f- you know, we need to act fast. Uh, so, st- stop wasting billions of dollars of taxpayer money. Um, but if, if we make a mistake, we'll reverse it quickly.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Right.

Elon Musk 37:38 Um, you know, so... just-

Joe Rogan 37:40 There's also this interesting narrative that you shouldn't have access to this Social Security information, as if no one's had access to it before. As if the Biden administration in 2023-

Elon Musk 37:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:51 ... had ... there was like 53 people, some of them were students, that had access to all this stuff.

Elon Musk 37:56 Yeah, uh, a- as it is, there are, uh, tens of thousands of pe- of federal employees that have access to, a- already, to the system. Uh, anyone from Doge has to go through the same vetting process that those se- those federal employees went through. So, it's, there's not, like, some unvetted, random situation. If, for example, there's a security clearance needed, uh, the Doge person has to have that same security clearance. So, there's no, um, reduction in security. Um, but I mean, i- if ... obviously, the, the, the, the vast numbers of Social Security numbers have leaked onto the internet. People have hacked the gov- the government systems multiple times. Uh, vast amounts of public information has been hacked and, and, uh, dumped onto the internet. So, I mean, there was a guy at the IRS that leaked a half a million tax returns just a few years ago.

Joe Rogan 38:53 On purpose?

Elon Musk 38:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:55 For what reason?

Elon Musk 38:56 Uh, f- a full political ... he, he, he, he wanted to, uh ... I think he was trying to get at Trump and maybe me and a few others. Um, so ... but he, he, he, he stole, like, 500,000, uh, tax returns. Yeah, like, like, not a, a few. Like, it's a lot of tax returns.

Joe Rogan 39:15 Jesus Christ.

Elon Musk 39:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:17 Oh, n- I remember that story. Now I remember it.

Elon Musk 39:19 Yeah, you can just-

Joe Rogan 39:19 Yeah.

Elon Musk 39:20 ... y- just read about it online. It's not ... it's a real thing.

Joe Rogan 39:23 So, these are the narratives. That's the narrative, that you shouldn't have access to Social Security. The, the other narrative is that s- starving people are gonna die, and women aren't gonna be pregnant and not have nutrients for their babies. And that's, that's all you're hearing. And, um-

Elon Musk 39:38 Yeah. Well, that's the, that's the, that's the, the only thing they, they can say. But they can't point to the line item.

Joe Rogan 39:44 Right.

Elon Musk 39:44 Um, and so, they can't say, like-

Joe Rogan 39:46 (clears throat)

Elon Musk 39:46 ... "Well this is the thing where, w- you know, the w- nutrients for pregnant mothers were stopped."

Joe Rogan 39:53 Right.

Elon Musk 39:53 This is ... they can't point to that because we didn't.

Joe Rogan 39:55 Right.

Elon Musk 39:55 It was a lie.

Joe Rogan 39:57 What's fascinating to me is, um, how much the mainstream media is in line with the very specific talking points, and how little ... y' only, y' only have Fox News. You essentially have Fox News on television.

Elon Musk 40:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:12 It's like the only one that is pointing out the ridiculous fraud and waste. And-

Elon Musk 40:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:18 ... you know, I know ... uh, you saw the Jeff Bezos thing in The Washington Post. They're gonna stop all the wacky editorials and, and limit that stuff to, uh, I think it was, uh, wealth and personal freedom, or s- something along those lines.

Elon Musk 40:32 Yeah. Yeah, so, th- I mean, I think it's ... th- there's in- a kind of ... I think it makes sense. Uh, 'cause he's just talking about the things ... not, not the, the, sort of ... he's just talking about the opinions.

Joe Rogan 40:44 Opinion pieces.

Elon Musk 40:44 The opinion pieces, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Yeah.

Elon Musk 40:46 So, the regular journalism stays the same. So ...

Joe Rogan 40:48 Well, it's, uh, a detriment to their business. I mean, you're seeing over and over again, people that just ... they don't wanna hear all this shit from these people anymore.

Elon Musk 40:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:56 It's like you're, you're, you're saying ... y- it's almost like you're caught in an outdated version of the virus, and everybody else already has the immunity to that virus. Like, this is-

Elon Musk 41:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:07 ... you know? Like, you need (laughs) you need a new mind virus. The one that you're pushing, it's like it doesn't work anymore. It's too crazy.

Elon Musk 41:15 Yeah. Uh, it's ... the whole thing is very crazy. Um, I mean, the media is incredibly partisan. I mean, they're not, uh, I mean, they take ... o- almost all the media is, um, you know, left-shifted.

Joe Rogan 41:28 Yeah.

Elon Musk 41:28 So, uh, it's like, it's kinda weird. If you talk to somebody who gets all their information from, like, what I call legacy media, uh, they're living in a different world-

Joe Rogan 41:37 Yeah.

Elon Musk 41:38 ... uh, than if they, say, are listening to, you know, um, your podcast or, um, are getting new- news from, from X, or, you know, just ... if ... it's, it's like, it's, it's kinda wild. Like-

Joe Rogan 41:52 It is very wild.

Elon Musk 41:53 Like, you're talk- it, it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 41:54 Yeah.

Elon Musk 41:54 ... like they're living in an alternate reality.

Joe Rogan 41:56 Oh, there's a lot of people that I talk to that I have to go, "Where did you hear that?" (laughs)

Elon Musk 42:00 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:00 Yeah.

Elon Musk 42:01 Uh, but I mean, like, th- the Associated Press, which I call Associated Propaganda, the AP, um, you know, they, they ran a, uh, international news story saying that we ... that Doge fired air traffic controllers. But we didn't fire any air traffic controllers at all. In fact, we're trying to hire air traffic controllers, not fire them.

Joe Rogan 42:18 Yeah, I saw that. You, you made a tweet about it, right?

Elon Musk 42:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:21 What do you call it now? Do you call it a post?

Elon Musk 42:24 Post, yeah, whatever.

Joe Rogan 42:25 You can't call it a tweet though. Do you call it a tweet accidentally ever?

Elon Musk 42:27 No, I call it a post. I don't how to ...

Joe Rogan 42:28 (laughs)

Elon Musk 42:28 ... listen to ...... uh, but, but like if you, if, if one, like let's say, if somebody posts, if somebody puts up, like, an, you know, two-hour-long video, that's not a tweet.

Joe Rogan 42:38 Right. It's a post.

Elon Musk 42:40 It's po-... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:40 Good point.

Elon Musk 42:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:41 Yeah.

Elon Musk 42:42 So-

Joe Rogan 42:42 For sure.

Elon Musk 42:42 Yeah. So, um, but I'm not hard over it if people still want to call it a tweet, whatever, but-

Joe Rogan 42:48 But you put a post about it, just to get back to it, saying that if you, we need highly qualified air traffic controllers. If you've retired-

Elon Musk 42:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:56 ... if you would consider doing it again, we could use you.

Elon Musk 42:58 Uh, yes. So, uh, a lot of really qualified air traffic controllers were, were pushed out because of DEI stuff. So, um, I mean, not to, to be blunt. I mean, a bunch of old white, a bunch of really good, talented old white guys were pushed out. It's not cool. Um, and so we have... There's a talent shortage in air traffic control because of DEI and, and, and not being, not hiring people on merit, you know. Um-

Joe Rogan 43:27 Which is so crazy that that worked.

Elon Musk 43:29 I think we sh- we should not put the public safety at risk, uh-

Joe Rogan 43:31 No.

Elon Musk 43:32 ... you know, because of some demented philosophy.

Joe Rogan 43:34 Somebody made a post today about it in- infiltrating the NSA. Uh, did you see any of that?

Elon Musk 43:40 That was f-... Wha-... I was in s-

Joe Rogan 43:42 Crazy.

Elon Musk 43:43 Some gnarly stuff.

Joe Rogan 43:44 Yeah. Crazy. What they, they, they had... It started off as just, like, this sort of fringe thing, and people would-

Elon Musk 43:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:51 ... meet up. Then it completely infiltrated the organization.

Elon Musk 43:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:54 And they were spending all their time-

Elon Musk 43:55 There was, like, 400 people or something-

Joe Rogan 43:57 Yeah.

Elon Musk 43:57 ... in some, like, b-... Some chat, sex chat room with, like, some extremely demented stuff.

Joe Rogan 44:04 Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I've, I know I saved it.

Elon Musk 44:06 I saw it.

Joe Rogan 44:06 I'll send it to you, Jamie, 'cause it, it's so kooky. You're, you, you're, "What? Th- this is the NSA? I thought the NSA was just all about, like, information and hardcore business."

Elon Musk 44:15 I thought it was supposed to, like, spy on, you know, if, like, if there's a national threat or something.

Joe Rogan 44:20 Yeah. I think this is exactly it. Um, so she, uh... More than 100 intelligence staffers will be fired over sexually explicit texts in NSA chat rooms, Gabbard says. Um, so, so top intelligence official told Waters that the workers in question were brazen in using an NSA platform intended for professional use to conduct this kind of really, really horrific behavior. Uh, what is the behavior? What exactly, what is it? Uh, do they say in this article?

Elon Musk 44:51 Uh, yeah. I think they also-

Joe Rogan 44:55 Okay, it says, "Employees who participate in the NSA's obscene pornographic and sexually explicit chat rooms."

Elon Musk 45:02 W-... Your tax dollars at work.

Joe Rogan 45:04 Well, it was all, like, DE... I mean, it was all, like, LBGTQ stuff. It was l-... There was a lot of, like, transition stuff and...

Elon Musk 45:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:13 I, I know I definitely saved it, but point is, um-

Elon Musk 45:17 And it, yeah-

Joe Rogan 45:17 ... they, it infiltrated the organization.

Elon Musk 45:19 It's not, it's not what they should be talking about.

Joe Rogan 45:20 At all.

Elon Musk 45:21 At all.

Joe Rogan 45:21 At all. Yeah, that-

Elon Musk 45:22 Uh, supposed to be protecting the country.

Joe Rogan 45:24 Right.

Elon Musk 45:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:24 And if you... And people were talking about how they're spending half their time in these meetings, and that they're just, like, constantly having to attend these things where they talk about these issues. Like, what are, what are you doing? Like, if you have a problem with someone that's discriminatory, get rid of that person. That's it.

Elon Musk 45:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:43 It's... You, d-... Problem's over. You got someone who's homophobic in your business, they're openly homophobic, "Hey, uh, you can't work here."

Elon Musk 45:49 Sure.

Joe Rogan 45:49 "That's not cool." That's it. That's it. You don't have to have fucking meetings constantly promoting this i-... You're not gonna change someone's opinion by-

Elon Musk 45:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:56 ... berating them over and over again.

Elon Musk 45:58 Yeah. W- in a work environment should be a professional environment where (laughs) you know, they're, they're getting the job done that they're, you know, you know, being paid to do. Uh, th- th- it should be-

Joe Rogan 46:11 Of course.

Elon Musk 46:11 ... yeah, it's obviously not supposed to be s- uh, sort of getting paid for bizarre sex- sexcapades.

Joe Rogan 46:17 It's just so fascinating-

Elon Musk 46:19 Uh-

Joe Rogan 46:19 ... that, uh, the virus is so strong that it made it into the NSA.

Elon Musk 46:24 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:24 And was-

Elon Musk 46:25 Uh-

Joe Rogan 46:25 You would think those are some hardcore-

Elon Musk 46:27 And the CIA too. There was-

Joe Rogan 46:28 Yeah.

Elon Musk 46:28 I mean, the CIA was in there too. So-

Joe Rogan 46:29 Yeah, they were in there too.

Elon Musk 46:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:30 Which is bananas. You would think same thing, like hard-nosed-

Elon Musk 46:34 B-

Joe Rogan 46:34 ... like, tough people doing hard work.

Elon Musk 46:36 Who c- who can spy on you wh- whenever they want.

Joe Rogan 46:38 Yeah. Yeah.

Elon Musk 46:41 And get revenge on you whenever they want.

Joe Rogan 46:43 Yeah. Pretty wild.

Elon Musk 46:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:47 And, you know, they exist when the president leaves, they stay. People move around. They stay a part of the organization for your entire career. They get deeply entrenched in their system and how things work and who's back to rub and who's, who's a bad guy, who's a good guy, who's on our side, who's not.

Elon Musk 47:08 Yeah. It's scary actually.

Joe Rogan 47:11 Yeah.

Elon Musk 47:12 Um, so-

Joe Rogan 47:14 Was that what's taking so long with this Epstein files?

Elon Musk 47:17 Yeah. What's up with that?

Joe Rogan 47:18 What is up with that? It was like-

Elon Musk 47:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:21 It's, it's like Lucy and the football with Charlie Brown, when she always pulls that football away.

Elon Musk 47:25 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:26 It's the same thing. It's like they keep telling us they're gonna release it-

Elon Musk 47:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:31 ... day one. Oh, day one.

Elon Musk 47:32 Yeah. We have a serious case of no-one's-being-arrested-o-phobia, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:35 Well, there's also-

Elon Musk 47:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:36 Right.

Elon Musk 47:37 Like, "What the fuck is going on?"

Joe Rogan 47:38 "What the fuck is going on?" Uh, also there's this real fear that someone's destroying the evidence, and you keep hearing these stories, unsubstantiated stories-

Elon Musk 47:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:46 ... of, you know, FBI people shredding-

Elon Musk 47:47 Well, where is the evidence? I mean, the guy has-

Joe Rogan 47:48 ... what's going on.

Elon Musk 47:48 ... like tons of videos and, uh, recordings.

Joe Rogan 47:52 Yeah.

Elon Musk 47:53 I mean he had all sorts of things.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Right.

Elon Musk 47:54 Like there's a mountain of evidence.

Joe Rogan 47:56 Right.

Elon Musk 47:56 So where is that mountain?

Joe Rogan 47:57 Yeah. Where, where is that mountain? And what would be the reason why they would agree? Like, there would have to be something in it for them to agree to not put it out. Right? Like, there has to be some sort of financial entanglement, some sort of relationship with the people that are on that list-

Elon Musk 48:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:18 ... that they can provide a value that was big enough for you to not release it or to slow release it or to hope you can get away with, like, putting out some redacted files that don't show anything.

Elon Musk 48:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:28 This is only stage one.

Elon Musk 48:30 A whole bunch of redacted, redacted, redacted.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Only stage one, don't worry. The real stuff's coming. Like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, why wouldn't you just release it all? Like, what-

Elon Musk 48:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:38 ... what could possibly be th-

Elon Musk 48:40 ... well, uh-

Joe Rogan 48:41 ... worth protecting in there.

Elon Musk 48:42 I mean, I think I've got probably the same information that... I mean, I'm just reading what's, what's the latest thing on the ex- you know, I'm just looking at my X feed.

Joe Rogan 48:47 It's all a mystery.

Elon Musk 48:47 And I'm like-

Joe Rogan 48:48 Yeah.

Elon Musk 48:49 ... you know? It's a real page-turner.

Joe Rogan 48:51 (laughs)

Elon Musk 48:51 Um, (laughs) and like, I thought we were gonna get some rev- revelations today. I was like, "Big binders full of stuff."

Joe Rogan 48:58 Yeah.

Elon Musk 48:58 "There's gotta be something in there."

Joe Rogan 49:00 Well there was an-

Elon Musk 49:00 And then-

Joe Rogan 49:00 ... all those people that were given a copy of it, they were all like waving it around.

Elon Musk 49:04 Yeah. It's that, it's that-

Joe Rogan 49:04 Like they, they got the Willy Wonka ticket.

Elon Musk 49:06 Yeah, yeah, totally.

Joe Rogan 49:07 Yeah. And what happened?

Elon Musk 49:09 Nothing. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:10 Nothing. So-

Elon Musk 49:12 I don't-

Joe Rogan 49:12 I think Laura Loomer released it online.

Elon Musk 49:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:14 I think. I mean, well actually- Right? ... yeah, she's not v- very pleased about this. So, does anybody find anything in there that's interesting? No, it's all old stuff from 2015 and 2021. Okay, what the fuck is going on?

Elon Musk 49:25 But, but then apparently there's, they, they discovered a whole bunch of stuff at the Southern Distri- District of New York.

Joe Rogan 49:31 Right.

Elon Musk 49:32 So that's... And, and (laughs) and then I'm like... And I mean,I, I think, uh, you know, Pam B- Bondi is, is actually great and Kash Patel are great, but they're like, they just got there, you know?

Joe Rogan 49:41 Right.

Elon Musk 49:41 So then they're, they're in a... They're, they just got there, but they're, they're in a hostile environment. They're not in a friendly environment.

Joe Rogan 49:48 Right.

Elon Musk 49:48 Um, so, um, you know, it's like if you suddenly got put in captain of a ship, but the crew was previously your enemy.

Joe Rogan 49:58 Right.

Elon Musk 49:58 The entire crew-

Joe Rogan 49:59 Right.

Elon Musk 49:59 ... was previously your enemy.

Joe Rogan 50:00 Right.

Elon Musk 50:01 You know?

Joe Rogan 50:01 And you're telling them, "Give me evidence."

Elon Musk 50:03 (laughs) Yeah, the crew doesn't want to give you the evidence-

Joe Rogan 50:05 That shows you guys are all criminals.

Elon Musk 50:06 ... because the crew is your enemy. They were like your mortal enemies just a moment ago. You just got there.

Joe Rogan 50:11 Yeah.

Elon Musk 50:11 So, I think we gotta give, um, you know, um, the attorney general and, you know, new director of the FBI some, a little bit of slack here, 'cause they literally just got there.

Joe Rogan 50:22 I think so too.

Elon Musk 50:23 Um-

Joe Rogan 50:23 But hey, don't say you're gonna release it on day one then.

Elon Musk 50:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:27 You shouldn't have said that.

Elon Musk 50:28 Sure.

Joe Rogan 50:28 And don't say you got a big drop coming tomorrow, and that's some bullshit that's been around forever.

Elon Musk 50:34 (laughs) It's disappointing. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:35 Yeah, what the... Uh-

Elon Musk 50:36 Um-

Joe Rogan 50:36 And where's the JFK files? Where are those?

Elon Musk 50:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:40 Let them go. Did they release anything on that front yet?

Elon Musk 50:41 Uh... I don't know what's going on.

Joe Rogan 50:43 I don't know. (laughs)

Elon Musk 50:44 Because it can't be anything that's gotten to me yet. So if nothing's gotten to me yet-

Joe Rogan 50:47 (laughs) If there is-

Elon Musk 50:47 ... it can't be significant.

Joe Rogan 50:49 So if there is- if there's conspiracy evidence, someone's gonna send it to you. Yes.

Elon Musk 50:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:51 Yeah, 100%.

Elon Musk 50:54 100%.

Joe Rogan 50:54 Tim Dillon, Dave Smith, someone's gonna send it my way. Somebody's gonna send you the stuff. Yeah. Yeah, so it hasn't- Right, so it's- It hasn't been released yet. ... it hasn't. There's no way. You would find out. And th- here's the real question. Like, what could even be in there at this point that they haven't cleared out? If you've got paperwork from 1963, like, what is in there still? What is in there that could po- possibly be incriminating that supposedly Trump said-

Elon Musk 51:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:17 ... that if you saw what they showed me, you wouldn't release it either. Okay, what the fuck does that mean?

Elon Musk 51:22 I- I- I haven't seen it, so, uh-

Joe Rogan 51:24 Kash Patel has.

Elon Musk 51:26 He has?

Joe Rogan 51:26 He said he's seen it all. Yeah.

Elon Musk 51:28 Um, well, can't he, can't he just post it to his, like, X account or something? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:33 (laughs)

Elon Musk 51:34 I mean, I just wish- I-

Joe Rogan 51:35 That sounds like an Elon move.

Elon Musk 51:36 Well, I don't know, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:36 I don't think he can. He's the director of the FBI. Maybe some way. I think he has to go through proper channels. And-

Elon Musk 51:41 Does he?

Joe Rogan 51:41 I-

Elon Musk 51:41 He has the channel.

Joe Rogan 51:42 I get- Yeah, but there's rules. (laughs)

Elon Musk 51:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:45 He sounds like Trump.

Elon Musk 51:46 (laughs) He sounds like Trump.

Joe Rogan 51:46 (laughs)

Elon Musk 51:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:48 He needs an executive order. Wait a minute.

Elon Musk 51:49 "What about the storm?" "I am the storm."

Joe Rogan 51:51 (laughs)

Elon Musk 51:52 (laughs) I mean, what channels? He has the channel.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Well, again-

Elon Musk 51:57 You know?

Joe Rogan 51:57 ... imagine just getting to the, the hull or just getting to the, uh, deck of the ship and you're the captain.

Elon Musk 52:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:03 And now you, uh, you have to figure out who's running things, who's doing this, what, where is everything.

Elon Musk 52:09 Y- yeah. Um...

Joe Rogan 52:10 Yeah.

Elon Musk 52:11 J- just getting, getting anything done, l- like, 's just... Like I said, y- you're k- you just joined as captain of a ship of where the crew hate your guts.

Joe Rogan 52:19 Yeah.

Elon Musk 52:20 Uh-

Joe Rogan 52:20 They were your enemy.

Elon Musk 52:21 Yeah, they were your enemy.

Joe Rogan 52:23 Yeah.

Elon Musk 52:23 They're strongly opposed to anything you want to do.

Joe Rogan 52:26 Yeah.

Elon Musk 52:26 Um, and you're trying to give them orders.

Joe Rogan 52:28 And you're trying to expose them.

Elon Musk 52:30 Yeah, they don't want to be exposed.

Joe Rogan 52:31 Right. You're- your literally people that are working there-

Elon Musk 52:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:33 ... are probably a part of this problem.

Elon Musk 52:35 I mean, I- I was reading (laughs) on, on X that, like, Comey's daughter is like the lead prosecutor in the Southern District of New York. Did you read that?

Joe Rogan 52:42 Yes.

Elon Musk 52:42 And, and like, so obviously there's a bit of an entanglement there.

Joe Rogan 52:46 A little bit.

Elon Musk 52:46 Like what if there's something that, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:48 Right.

Elon Musk 52:48 ... you know, makes, puts her dad in a bad light?

Joe Rogan 52:51 What?

Elon Musk 52:53 Exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:53 (laughs) He's a fucking shredder. Hit that delete button.

Elon Musk 52:56 The, the shredder is working overtime.

Joe Rogan 52:57 Keep hitting that delete button.

Elon Musk 52:58 You know?

Joe Rogan 52:58 Did you see, uh, General Flynn? He was on, uh, a podcast and he, he spoke directly to James Comey.

Elon Musk 53:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:05 He said, "Jim, you're going to jail, un- unless you give up someone deeper than you," and you know who that is? You know who I'm talking about? Like, that is wild.

Elon Musk 53:16 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 53:17 To think that the former director of the FBI might be really in that kind of deep shit and that he really actually was doing some evil, corrupt shit while he was running the FBI.

Elon Musk 53:28 I mean, it's, it's, it seems like there's some very shady stuff that's been going on. Um...

Joe Rogan 53:32 It seems like it definitely happened in the '60s, right? Everybody kind of admits to that. They admit the FBI-

Elon Musk 53:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:37 ... uh, killed Black Panthers. They, they did, they did a lot of shit. There's a lot of stuff that went on that we know the government did way back in the day.

Elon Musk 53:47 Yeah, why don't we just data dump the files? Just like-

Joe Rogan 53:49 Yeah.

Elon Musk 53:49 ... go, go in there, take photos of, of all the papers, presumably paper, um, and just post it online. And, uh, let p- let the chips fall where they may.

Joe Rogan 53:59 Isn't presumably every- everyone involved dead?

Elon Musk 54:01 I mean, isn't there some like filing cabinet somewhere? I don't know.

Joe Rogan 54:03 Right, where is it? How-

Elon Musk 54:04 Where's the, where's the magic filing cabinet?

Joe Rogan 54:06 How are they hiding it? Who's got access to it?

Elon Musk 54:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:08 Like, this, this was what I was hoping. Day one, I was hoping. But obviously it's taken a lot longer than that. So-

Elon Musk 54:16 I- I think part of it is like, you know, like l- let's, let's say, let's say you were made director of the FBI.

Joe Rogan 54:21 Okay.

Elon Musk 54:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:22 I might be able to.

Elon Musk 54:24 Yeah, but I mean like literally-

Joe Rogan 54:25 That's, that's what's crazy.

Elon Musk 54:25 ... you go there-

Joe Rogan 54:26 Dan Bongino, what's he doing now? He's, he's one of the big dogs at the FBI.

Elon Musk 54:29 I mean, Dan-

Joe Rogan 54:29 But he's like-

Elon Musk 54:30 Dan's a, Dan's a-

Joe Rogan 54:30 Yeah.

Elon Musk 54:30 He's a tough guy.

Joe Rogan 54:31 Secret Service guy.

Elon Musk 54:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Yeah, legit guy.

Elon Musk 54:33 But-

Joe Rogan 54:33 People think of him as a Fox News guy, just like Pete Hegseth, same thing. They don't want to think about his distinguished military career.

Elon Musk 54:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:39 They want to say, "Oh, that Fox News guy?"... deputy director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Elon Musk 54:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Yeah.

Elon Musk 54:45 I mean, Dan's hardcore.

Joe Rogan 54:46 Very.

Elon Musk 54:46 I mean, if he c- if it's, if it's reasonably findable, I think he's gonna find it.

Joe Rogan 54:50 Yeah. This is the thing, like-

Elon Musk 54:50 Between him and Kash, I mean, like, I think they're gonna get stuff out there.

Joe Rogan 54:53 How crazy would it be if they couldn't though? How crazy would it be if they can't find anything? If it's that-

Elon Musk 54:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:58 If, if everybody shuts their mouths-

Elon Musk 54:59 I mean, I don't know, like-

Joe Rogan 54:59 ... and everybody covers their ass.

Elon Musk 55:01 ... is there, like, a, like, an FBI computer-

Joe Rogan 55:02 (laughs)

Elon Musk 55:02 ... where you type in the search?

Joe Rogan 55:04 That's what I wanna know.

Elon Musk 55:05 I just don't know the basic mechanism here. Like, it's either in a filing cabinet in pa- on p- on paper, where it's, like, you know, maybe there's, like, progressive levels of security.

Joe Rogan 55:13 Right.

Elon Musk 55:14 You know, you gotta, like, open this door. Oh, you gotta have the, do you have the pass for this level?

Joe Rogan 55:17 Yeah.

Elon Musk 55:17 You gotta, like, get a level unlocked, and there's a level unlocked, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 55:20 You get in there, and there's an old Acer laptop. (laughs)

Elon Musk 55:21 ... you know, Men in Black, and it's finally, like, opened up. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Yeah, there's an old unplugged laptop-

Elon Musk 55:28 I mean, what does it even look like? ... you gotta only plug it in. It's in a skiff. Yeah, this is why I like-

Joe Rogan 55:31 Yeah.

Elon Musk 55:31 ... I think, I think, like, a tour of Fort Knox would be awesome, like, a live tour of Fort Knox-

Joe Rogan 55:35 Well-

Elon Musk 55:35 ... where we can actually see. It's like, is the gold (laughs) there or not? They say it is.

Joe Rogan 55:38 Can you imagine if it's not?

Elon Musk 55:39 Like, is it real, or did somebody spray paint some lead, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:41 Imagine if it's not.

Elon Musk 55:43 Imagine if it's not all there, like, some of it's missing. Where'd it go?

Joe Rogan 55:45 What if a lot of it's missing? What if, like, half of it's missing? (laughs)

Elon Musk 55:50 I mean, who, how do we even know?

Joe Rogan 55:52 We don't know. They said the last time they let someone look at it was decades ago.

Elon Musk 55:56 Yeah. Well, the last, I believe, the last formal audit was in the '50s.

Joe Rogan 56:00 (laughs)

Elon Musk 56:02 So I'm like, "Okay."

Joe Rogan 56:04 Oh my God, just think about all the other things-

Elon Musk 56:06 Maybe we should check it again. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:08 (laughs) Maybe.

Elon Musk 56:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:09 Think about all the other stuff that you pointed out, all the, the, the checks that just go out, the, the NGO payments, the Social Security people. Think about all, just all that.

Elon Musk 56:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:18 Now apply that to the gold.

Elon Musk 56:19 N- ab- absolutely. I, I just wanna, like, emphasize the sheer madness of the, the government. It's, it's just bec- because they have, like, ma- magic money computers that, that, they, the checks al- the checks never bounce for the federal government. Like, so you don't have the, the normal corrective mechanism that you'd have for a company or for an, an in- individual. The checks just always, they're always, always clear. The net result is inflation, which is effectively a tax on everyone. Um, but, uh, you know, like, the Defense Department hasn't passed an audit in I don't know how many years.

Joe Rogan 56:48 Seven years.

Elon Musk 56:49 Yeah. I mean, exactly. So it's like you, you had to be frigging Chuck Norris to p- for, like only-

Joe Rogan 56:54 (laughs)

Elon Musk 56:54 (laughs) Like only Chuck Norris could get the Defense Department to pass an audit, you know, type of thing. That's the level of skill you need, you know. Um-

Joe Rogan 57:01 Well, that's what's so insane, if you bring it back to the idea that it's a business.

Elon Musk 57:05 Well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:05 This would never be tolerated in any kind of functional business.

Elon Musk 57:08 Exactly. So, uh, you know, um, you know, the Pentagon will, will, like, like, their accounting error, like, uh, the stuff that, that they lose in the couch cushions is, like, 20, $30 bill- billion a year. Th- they just don't know wh- don't know where it went. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:25 (laughs)

Elon Musk 57:25 It's gone. (laughs) Where'd it go? And it's gone. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:30 It's just-

Elon Musk 57:30 So-

Joe Rogan 57:30 ... it's so insane.

Elon Musk 57:32 It's insane.

Joe Rogan 57:33 It's so insane, and-

Elon Musk 57:34 So that, that's why I say, like, even simple things, like, just requiring that the, that outgoing payments to the Treasury computer have a payment code and a comment of what the payment is about and someone to call about the payment, um, I think will have an, uh, a very p- powerful effect in stopping wasteful s- uh, outflows and stopping fraud.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Yeah. And, and here's another way to, to look at this. Imagine if some- there are people like you and the Doge team out there in the world. Imagine if one of those works for an organization, like USAID or any other organization, and has this understanding of how much fuckery is involved, but they have-

Elon Musk 58:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 ... evil intentions, and they're entwined in the system for decades and decades, and they've built a career and all the entanglements that come with it.

Elon Musk 58:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:23 And they start moving shit around. You could probably do it easy. It sounds like the way you've laid it out, if you were a career person-

Elon Musk 58:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:31 ... who was in there forever, who knew how everything works-

Elon Musk 58:34 (coughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:35 ... and you were very clever, you could make some shit happen, and you could probably-

Elon Musk 58:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:40 ... do it in conjunction with some people that you know that are forming an NGO. Hey, let's all work together. (laughs)

Elon Musk 58:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:47 Yeah. And this is the resistance that you're facing.

Elon Musk 58:51 Yeah. The, the, I think it's the biggest scam of all time.

Joe Rogan 58:54 This is not something you ever sought out to do.

Elon Musk 58:55 Like, literally the biggest scam of all-

Joe Rogan 58:59 Ever.

Elon Musk 58:59 ... time ever.

Joe Rogan 59:00 Of human history.

Elon Musk 59:00 Of human history, yes.

Joe Rogan 59:02 Wow. I think you're right.

Elon Musk 59:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:06 I think, how, how, what else could be better?

Elon Musk 59:07 Like, it's probably d- a trillion-dollar scam. There's never been a trillion-dollar scam, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:14 Now this is not something that you ever set out to do. This is not in it. You didn't have this as a career aspiration. This is not-

Elon Musk 59:20 No. It, it, like, this is the most absurd outcome I can possibly imagine actually.

Joe Rogan 59:24 (laughs)

Elon Musk 59:24 Uh, oh- also, like, Doge started as, like, a m- a sort of a, a meme coin.

Joe Rogan 59:28 Right.

Elon Musk 59:28 You know, it was like a, a joke-

Joe Rogan 59:31 Yeah.

Elon Musk 59:31 ... uh, cryptocurrency, in- involving memes and dogs.

Joe Rogan 59:34 Mm-hmm.

Elon Musk 59:35 Um, and, um-

Joe Rogan 59:36 Which is so funny that the letters wound up being perfect.

Elon Musk 59:39 Yeah. Well, actually, I was originally gonna call it, like, the Government Efficiency Commission, which is a very boring name. Um, and then people online were like, "No, it needs to be the Department of Government Efficiency."

Joe Rogan 59:49 Ah.

Elon Musk 59:50 And I was like, "You know what? You're right."

Joe Rogan 59:52 Of course.

Elon Musk 59:52 Of course.

Joe Rogan 59:53 Of course.

Elon Musk 59:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:54 I mean, it's more evidence of the simulation.

Elon Musk 59:55 Totally.

Joe Rogan 59:56 That that little Shiba Inu. (laughs)

Elon Musk 59:59 Like, the sheer absurdity. (laughs) Like, our mascot is a, is a cute dog. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 (laughs) And it's a meme coin. The meme coin's probably worth a lot of money right now, right? Like, every time you tweet about it-

Elon Musk 1:00:08 Uh, probably. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 ... it shoots up.

Elon Musk 1:00:09 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 The, the meme, the whole meme coin thing is bananas.

Elon Musk 1:00:14 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 It is so bananas that people dump real money into these coins, and then-

Elon Musk 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 ... you could just pump them up and sell them.

Elon Musk 1:00:21 It's like, it's like a, a casino or something. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 Yeah, it's totally gambling.

Elon Musk 1:00:24 And then people just do whatever, greater fool theory and-

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:00:26 ... like musical chairs, and whoever's, like, the last to sit down loses type of thing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Yeah. And somehow or another, it's still legal.

Elon Musk 1:00:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Like, that's-

Elon Musk 1:00:33 I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 ... that's how...

Elon Musk 1:00:34 Th- the thing is, I, I, I thought, I think not too many people, uh, I mean, I mean, it's sort of like you go to the casino. Like, you ex- if you expect to win at the casino, you're being a fool.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Right.

Elon Musk 1:00:45 Okay? So, and I think if you expect to win at meme coins, you're being, it's not, you're being foolish. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Yeah.But pe-

Elon Musk 1:00:52 Yeah, you're not gonna win at meme coins. It's like... It's, uh... (laughs) It, it... But if, if, if you want... Like, don't sink your life savings into a meme coin. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 No, but you can gamble a little-

Elon Musk 1:01:00 That would be insane.

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 ... and you can ride waves and win a little and lose a little.

Elon Musk 1:01:04 Yeah. If, if you wanna have some fun-

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:01:05 ... and, and don't come... Uh, then, you know, play, uh, have, play with meme coins. So don't, don't-

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 But if you put your family's-

Elon Musk 1:01:11 Don't, don't bet the farm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 If you put your family's wealth-

Elon Musk 1:01:13 Don't bet the farm on a meme coin.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 ... in the Hawk Tuah coin-

Elon Musk 1:01:14 At the risk of saying something-

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:01:16 ... bold and outrageous.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:01:17 Don't bet the farm on a meme coin.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Uh, the weird one is the pump and dumps. Like, the pe- people get-

Elon Musk 1:01:23 They happen all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 All the time.

Elon Musk 1:01:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 And people get shocked that somebody pump and dumped. Like, what is...

Elon Musk 1:01:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 What are you doing? Did you... Uh, like, I was hoping to dump. I was hoping to make all the money out of this. I can't believe they got me. Like...

Elon Musk 1:01:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 It's just weird that it's legal still.

Elon Musk 1:01:41 Uh... I mean, casinos are legal.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:01:43 And, and, and people just lose money at casinos.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 It is legal, casino. Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:01:46 You know? Um-

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 But you can't rig a casino, like a pump and dump. You could rig a pump and dump, you know?

Elon Musk 1:01:51 (sighs) Uh, yeah, I guess so. Um...

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Like, you could run a real pyramid scheme.

Elon Musk 1:01:59 Well, I mean, the government's one big pyramid scheme, if you ask me.

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 Yeah. Well, you, you could tell me better than anybody.

Elon Musk 1:02:03 I mean, soc- social security is, is the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 Right. Explain that.

Elon Musk 1:02:08 Oh. So, um, well, people pay into Social Security, um, and, and the money goes out of Social Security immediately, but the obligation for Social Security is, uh, your entire retirement career. So you're, you're paying, uh... With your... The c- You're, you're paying... Like, like if you look at the future obligations of Social Security, it far exceeds, uh, the, the tax revenue. F- Far. Have you, have, have you ever looked at the, the, the debt, the debt clock?

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 Yes.

Elon Musk 1:02:41 Okay. There's, there's, there's our present day debt, but then there's our future obligations. So when you look at the future obligations of Social Security, um, the actual, uh, national debt is like double what, what people think it is because of the future obligations.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Oh.

Elon Musk 1:03:00 So basically people are living way longer than expected. Um, and, uh, there are fewer babies being born. So you have more people who are retired and get... That, that live for a long time and get re- re- retirement payments. So the future obligation... So h- however, however bad the financial situation is right now for the federal government, it will be much worse in the future. At the risk of being a buzzkill here.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Did you see the-

Elon Musk 1:03:29 So we better fix what we've got right now because if, if it's bad now, it's gonna be much worse in the future.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 There was an interview with this woman who was a whistleblower.

Elon Musk 1:03:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Did we ever find out if that was true? It was, it was- A lot of whistles.

Elon Musk 1:03:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 But this one lady... It wasn't even... It was only in one state. It was very specific and since I believe. Right. But it was using Social Security mon- money, correct? I... I guess. I don't know. That was her, that was her allegation. So what, what she was alleging was that she was in charge of turning, uh, illegal immigrants into clients.

Elon Musk 1:03:58 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 That's what they would call them. And that she would go to them and try to ask them, "Do you have a headache? Do you have back problems?"

Elon Musk 1:04:04 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 If you do, now you can be permanently disabled. You get permanent disability.

Elon Musk 1:04:09 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 So you get Social Security for life.

Elon Musk 1:04:10 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:04:11 Not, not just Social Security, but disability, which is even more.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Right. And you get them for, on the taxpayer dole right away the moment, and they're illegal aliens.

Elon Musk 1:04:19 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 And-

Elon Musk 1:04:20 Oh, uh, so if I were to say like, what's at the heart of the sort of... Like, why is the Democrat propaganda machine so fired up to destroy me? That's the main reason. The main reason is that, uh, it is that (clears throat) um, uh, entitlements fraud, that includes like Social Security, disability, Medicaid, uh, ent- entitlements fraud for illegal aliens is what is, uh, serving as a gigantic magnetic force to pull people in from all around the world and keep them here. Like basically if, if you, if you pay people, uh, at a standard of living that is above 90% of Earth, then you have a very powerful, uh, incentive for 90% of Earth to come here and to stay here. But if you, if you end the illegal alien fraud, then you, that you turn off that magnet and they leave and they, they stop coming and the, and the ones that are here, many of them will simply leave. And if, if that happens, a massive... They will lose a massive number of Democratic voters.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 And if it didn't happen, they would turn those people into voters.

Elon Musk 1:05:36 Correct.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 Which they were trying to do.

Elon Musk 1:05:38 No, they're, they're already turning them. So in, in New York State, illegal aliens can already vote in state and city elections. A lot of people don't, don't know that. There's, there's... That... I mean, they're trying to fight that in, in... They're trying to stop that, but it's... They're currently, I think it's like 600,000, uh, are registered to vote, illegal aliens, in New York.

Joe Rogan 1:05:58 That is wild.

Elon Musk 1:05:59 Yeah. Well, well, I mean, if you look and say, um, you know, FEMA, like the, the agency that was paying for illegal aliens to stay at luxury hotels in New York was FEMA. The fed- you know, that's meant... That, that's an agency that's meant to support Americans in distress from natural disasters, was paying for luxury hotels for illegals in New York.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 It's true. Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:06:29 That's a fact.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 Fact.

Elon Musk 1:06:30 They literally... (sighs) Like when, when we stopped that payment, we, we stopped all those, those monies because that's obviously an insane way to spend taxpayer money. Um, the, uh, New York, uh, sued the government, sued the federal government to get the money. So you could just look at their lawsuit. They, they were give- they were sending that money even after President Trump signed an executive order saying it needs to stop.... they still press send on $80 million to luxury hotels in New York. Your tax money (laughs) went to pay for illegal aliens in luxury hotels in New York from an agency that is meant to help Americans in distress from natural disasters.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 Right. And I would like to know-

Elon Musk 1:07:17 That's fucked up.

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 ... how much, and I would like to know how much they spent on North Carolina and how much they spent on Maui.

Elon Musk 1:07:21 Yes, exactly. Uh, w- what, what's actually happening is they're buying voters. That's really what's happening. It's like, it's like a giant v- voter fraud scam. They're importing voters (sighs) and, uh, and it's really just a matter of time. It l- so, like, if... A lot of people have trouble believing this, but if you... The more you look at it, the more you will realize just how much of a problem this is and how, h- it, it's, it's, it's not just real. It is, it, it is an attempt to destroy democracy in America. That's what it, in my view, it, it is what it really is. Like, if you take the, the, the s- sort of seven swing states, like, often, the margin of victory there is, like, maybe 20,000 votes. If you put 200,000, um, illegals in there and they have, like, a 80% likelihood of voting Dem, uh, and it's only a matter of time before they become citizens, then those swing states will not be swing states in the future, and if they are not swing states, we'll be a permanent one-party state country, permanent, uh, deep blue socialist state. That's what America will become.

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 And that was the game plan?

Elon Musk 1:08:38 That, that was, that was the game plan. That is still the game plan.

Joe Rogan 1:08:43 And so they-

Elon Musk 1:08:43 And they almost succeeded. If, if, if, i- if the, if the machine of which m- the Kamala puppet was the representation had won, that's what would have happened. The reason I went so hardcore for Tr- for, for, for Trump was because to me, this was a fork in the road, a very ob- like, a very obvious fork in the road. Um, uh, if they had another four years, they would legalize enough illegals in the swing states to make the swing states, uh, not swing states. They would just, they would be, uh, blue states. Then, then th- they would, they would win the presidential, th- they'd win the House, the Senate, and the presidency. Um, they would then make, uh, a district, you know, DC into a state, may- maybe Puerto Rico, get four extra senators, pack the Supreme Court, so then you'll have the House, Judiciary, Senate, uh, and presidency all blue, and then they will keep importing more illegals to cement that, that outcome, basically what happened in California.

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 Jesus Christ.

Elon Musk 1:09:55 It would have been the end. That's why I went so hardcore for, for Trump. It was oth- uh, it would otherwise have been the end. And that's why the, the, the Democrat machine is so intent on destroying me.

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 It's just so fascinating that people can't see this.

Elon Musk 1:10:13 I mean, I invite people to do their research. The more they do their research, the more they will see that what I'm saying is absolutely true. Do... So it's like, just do the research.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 Yeah. It's, it's such a bad idea, even for the Democrats, which is what they don't understand. Like, it's the same people.

Elon Musk 1:10:32 Yeah. It's, it's not ultimately gonna work out.

Joe Rogan 1:10:33 No. It's the same people.

Elon Musk 1:10:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 It's just they're doing it under the guise that they're the kind, compassionate, progressive people.

Elon Musk 1:10:41 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 But the same outcome takes place. It's just about control. And they, and they probably institute some central bank digital currency and some social credit score system. And then you've got-

Elon Musk 1:10:51 And censorship, of course.

Joe Rogan 1:10:52 Yeah, of course. Well, they, that was the big fear coming into this election-

Elon Musk 1:10:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:56 ... was that if they can't censor things, like... Well, y- I- we talked about it before, but there's, there was two major forks in the road. The big one was Trump didn't get shot.

Elon Musk 1:11:05 Yup.

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 The other big one was you buy Twitter.

Elon Musk 1:11:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:07 And if those two things don't happen, the whole world looks different.

Elon Musk 1:11:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:11:13 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:11:13 We, we don't wanna be on that timeline.

Joe Rogan 1:11:15 Now, we don't want to have only one side represented because guess what? They will hijack that side, whatever it is. They will hijack that side and use it for money and control, and that's what it's all about. It's not about good people versus bad people. It's a bullshit shell game.

Elon Musk 1:11:30 Yeah. I, I mean, uh, I think these things are actually... I- it's easier to understand if you look at basic incentives. The, the basic incentive here is the more illegals that the Democrats can bring in, the more likely they are to win. So that's what they're gonna do. Um, that's what they have been doing. Uh, and it worked in California, California supermajority Dem. Um, and look at all the companies that are leaving California.

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:11:56 Um, I mean, In-N-Out just announced they're leaving-

Joe Rogan 1:11:59 Yup.

Elon Musk 1:11:59 ... their headquarters, leaving California.

Joe Rogan 1:12:00 They're moving to Tennessee.

Elon Musk 1:12:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:02 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:12:02 So, um, and, and, and Ca- uh, California, uh, made healthcare free for illegals-

Joe Rogan 1:12:10 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:12:10 ... as of last year. So, and, and that, uh, obviously, that's a gigantic magnet for more illegals. Like, a- and this is not a thing you can solve simply with money, because what happens is the... you simply have more patients than a doctor can possibly see. And you can't just, you know, make doctors out of nothing. Like, the, it... So sometimes people are like, "Oh, it's just a money thing." No, you... It takes a long time for somebody to become a doctor, you know, that's 30 years. Um, and, uh, and so what actually happens in California is that there are too many patients for the doctors to see. So then, uh, the average citizen in California suffers as a result. Um, now, the, the elite in California are fine 'cause they have private doctors.... you know, they have, uh, they can, they can just pa- pay for the best doctors. So the elite in California are doing fine, but your, your average citizen in California is not doing fine. Um, and the, the, the tax burden for, uh, healthcare for illegals was supposed to be $3 billion. I think they now estimate it's $9 billion. But that, but that, that number will scale to infinity, basically. It's like, why not?

Joe Rogan 1:13:20 Right.

Elon Musk 1:13:20 Why, like, why not, if you, if you need any operation at all, come to California and have it be free?

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 Right.

Elon Musk 1:13:27 From anywhere on earth.

Joe Rogan 1:13:29 And the people that wanna look at it in the most charitable way, they say, "Oh, well, these people are hardworking, good people, and they're the backbone of our city, and they should have access to all the things that we have access to." And I just don't think they understand that it's a political pawn. I don't think they understand-

Elon Musk 1:13:45 It's a political game.

Joe Rogan 1:13:46 ... this is not done for compassion and kindness.

Elon Musk 1:13:49 No.

Joe Rogan 1:13:49 This is just done to ensure that it stays blue.

Elon Musk 1:13:52 Correct.

Joe Rogan 1:13:53 Yeah, and it's essentially a bribery with your tax dollars.

Elon Musk 1:13:56 Yes. This is why, um, the, the, the Dems will not even, um, deport criminals.

Joe Rogan 1:14:04 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:14:05 Um, because every criminal deported is a lost vote. The, so even, even if, if somebody is an, uh, um, an illegal with a criminal record and commits crime in America, they are still, were, still were not being deported.

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 And then on top of that, California made it actually illegal to ask for ID when people vote.

Elon Musk 1:14:26 Yes. California and New York, uh, you are not allowed to show your ID when you vote. I just wanna be clear so everyone understands this. In California and New York, you are not allowed to show your ID even if you want to.

Joe Rogan 1:14:39 Right. Why would that ever be a good idea?

Elon Musk 1:14:45 I mean... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:46 What, what, like if you wanted to steel man it.

Elon Musk 1:14:49 If, if you're trying to do, if you're trying to do, if- if you're trying to facilitate fraud in elections, it's a great idea.

Joe Rogan 1:14:52 That's the only reason.

Elon Musk 1:14:53 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:14:54 There's no other reason-

Elon Musk 1:14:55 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 ... logically why that would be a good idea.

Elon Musk 1:14:57 It's for fraud. It's, it's like, it's like, wake up sheeple.

Joe Rogan 1:15:02 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:15:02 Wake up. Hello? Like, let's say you wanted to commit fraud, what are the things you would do?

Joe Rogan 1:15:07 Yeah, you'd do-

Elon Musk 1:15:07 You would say you don't need ID and you can mail in your ballot.

Joe Rogan 1:15:11 And we'll give you free healthcare.

Elon Musk 1:15:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:15:13 Stay here.

Elon Musk 1:15:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:15:15 Stay here. I know it's on fire, but stay here.

Elon Musk 1:15:17 I mean, in this case, it being on fire is not just a metaphor in California.

Joe Rogan 1:15:21 Right. (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:15:21 Okay? (laughs) It's just like, it's goddamn, neig- entire neighborhood's burning down.

Joe Rogan 1:15:26 It's just once they, uh, allowed people to vote that are not legal in California, you, once you, if you're, if you're gonna do that, it's, it's over. It's-

Elon Musk 1:15:37 It's o- ex- exactly, it's, there's, there's no coming back from that.

Joe Rogan 1:15:40 The numbers are just no, people are so indoctrinated too. There's so many people that, no matter what, they think voting Republican means you're an asshole.

Elon Musk 1:15:48 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:15:49 And they won't do it.

Elon Musk 1:15:50 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:15:50 They won't do it. They, they'll put their fucking rainbow flag on their porch and they'll just ride it right into the beach.

Elon Musk 1:15:55 Civilizational suicide.

Joe Rogan 1:15:56 Yeah. Right to the rocks. Bang.

Elon Musk 1:15:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:59 Crash the boat.

Elon Musk 1:16:00 I mean, uh, there's a, there's a guy, um, who posts on X who's, who's great, uh, God Sod, God Sod.

Joe Rogan 1:16:05 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:16:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:05 He's a friend of mine.

Elon Musk 1:16:06 Oh, he's great.

Joe Rogan 1:16:06 He's been on the podcast a bunch of times.

Elon Musk 1:16:07 Yeah, he's awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:16:08 Yeah, he's great.

Elon Musk 1:16:09 Um, and he talks about h- uh, you know, basically suicidal empathy.

Joe Rogan 1:16:13 Mm-hmm.

Elon Musk 1:16:14 Like, the, if, if there's like, there's so much empathy (laughs) that you actually suicide yourself.

Joe Rogan 1:16:19 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:16:20 Um, so that, we've got civilizational suicidal empathy going on. And it's like, I believe in empathy, like, I think you should care about other people. But you need to have empathy for, for civilization as a whole and not commit to a civilizational suicide.

Joe Rogan 1:16:34 Also, don't let someone use your empathy against you so they can completely control your state.

Elon Musk 1:16:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:16:39 And then do it insanely bad job of managing it and never get removed. There's-

Elon Musk 1:16:45 The, the, the fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy. The empathy exploit. They're, they're, they're ex- they're, it's, it's they're exploiting a, a, a bug in Western civilization, which is the empathy response. So, and I've, I've, I think, you know, empathy is good. But you need to think it through and not just be programmed like a robot.

Joe Rogan 1:17:10 Right. Understand when empathy has been actually used as a too- a tool.

Elon Musk 1:17:14 Yes. Like, the, it's weaponized empathy-

Joe Rogan 1:17:18 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:17:18 ... is the issue.

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 Yeah. And-

Elon Musk 1:17:20 Weaponized empathy and, yeah. Um...

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 And it's also the rigid adherence to that liberal ideology. Like, you can't switch sides over there. Like California, if you're a part of that whole tech, Hollywood, entertainment, any, any of those circles, you're on the left.

Elon Musk 1:17:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:39 Like, almost wholly. Almost completely.

Elon Musk 1:17:43 It's, it's borderline illegal to be a Republican in California, uh, in, in, in, like, in, in San Francisco or LA, it's borderline illegal to be a Republican.

Joe Rogan 1:17:50 You're certainly shunned.

Elon Musk 1:17:52 No, I, look-

Joe Rogan 1:17:53 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:17:53 I mean, in like San Francisco, you, you, you could shoot heroin while taking a dump on the mayor's car in front of City Hall, okay? And, and that, and nothing would happen to you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:04 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:18:05 But if you walk down the street with a MAGA hat, you're gonna get attacked.

Joe Rogan 1:18:10 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:18:11 It's insane.

Joe Rogan 1:18:11 Yeah, it's insane.

Elon Musk 1:18:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:14 What's also so Orwellian that a hat that says, "Make America Great Again-"

Elon Musk 1:18:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:19 ... would cause people to have a violent reaction. Like, aren't you American? Wouldn't just, just as a, a whole, like the saying, wouldn't that be a good thing for everyone? Make America great again.

Elon Musk 1:18:31 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:18:31 But because it's attached to Donald Trump and