Joe Rogan Experience #2283 - Billy Corgan

Narrator 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Billy Corgan 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) All right, we're ... What's happening, man? Good to see you.

Billy Corgan 0:14 Thank you for having me back.

Joe Rogan 0:15 My pleasure. Um, how many times a day do you get bombarded by the whole Bill Burr thing?

Billy Corgan 0:21 When it gets into the family-

Joe Rogan 0:23 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 0:23 ... and people I haven't talked to for 20 years.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Ugh, then do you have to break character and tell the truth?

Billy Corgan 0:29 No. You know, the thing is, i- i- this is what's crazy, okay? Uh, you want the whole setup story?

Joe Rogan 0:37 Sure, sure, sure.

Billy Corgan 0:37 I could be quick about it. Uh, so, uh, where I tape my podcast is in one of Howie Mandel's buildings, and he has another building in this area. So, uh, I was working on something, and, and I was supposed to go on Howie's show that day. And they said, "Howie will meet you out in the street or something, for whatever reason." So I go out in the street, and the first thing Howie says to me when he sees me, he goes, "Here comes Bill Burr." And I go, "You too?" Like, "Do you know this story?" And he said, "No, I don't know about it." And I said, "You know what? Heck with it, I'm just gonna s- tell it on your show, so don't ask me any more." And I went on the show, and I told the story about my, how 10 years ago, my stepmother came to me and said, "Do you know who Bill Burr is?" I'd never heard of Bill, didn't know who he was, 'cause I don't really consume much, you know, popular culture. I had no idea he was a famous comedian. He could've been the lawnmower guy. Looked up Bill, first thing I saw was like, oh my God, he looks just like Daddy. When I was 18 years old, at an IHOP my, on my 18th birthday, my father told me, "You have a half-brother that I sired at the same time as you whose name is Bill." So suddenly, these facts come together of my mother telling me these stories. I talked to my dad subsequently about it, and he was very cagey about it. And when I said, "Why won't you tell me where this person is or who this person is?" He said, um, "I'm trying to protect you." So when my stepmother had told me, it kinda made sense, like, well, if, if my half-brother is this super famous comedian, my dad, in a way, wouldn't want me to know, because he wouldn't want me to feel like I was number two-

Joe Rogan 2:05 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 2:05 ... because Bill's so famous. I know it sounds crazy, right?

Joe Rogan 2:08 You think that's why he was trying to protect you?

Billy Corgan 2:10 Well, I don't know. So, so fast forward to Howie saying something on the street. So I was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna say something." And I swear to God, hand on my heart, last time I was with you in California, I almost pulled you aside after we were on, and I was gonna tell you the story, 'cause I knew you knew Bill, and I was gonna back channel, see if there was anything to the story from Bill's side.

Joe Rogan 2:29 Wow!

Billy Corgan 2:29 So imagine seven, I think six or seven years since we talked on your show.

Joe Rogan 2:33 Yeah, I don't even know-

Billy Corgan 2:34 2018, 2018 somebody said to me today, but... So anyway, started talking already, but the point is, is-

Joe Rogan 2:40 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 2:40 ... so here I am, fast forward, I'm just sick of seeing memes of my face with Bills and uh, so I just decide on the spur of the moment, you know? So Howie of course loves it, but I said on, on Howie's show that first time, "I don't think Bill's my half-brother. I don't think, I don't think there's anything there other than a, like an uncanny resemblance." Fast forward, the thing comes out, it gets a little bit of social media, and then it goes away. And I think, "Good." And Bill didn't say anything, so I figured Bill was kind of like, whatever, it was a mild amusement. You know, he could've made a joke out of the whole thing, and he didn't. So then Howie calls me, and I'm in LA working recently, and Howie's like, "Will you come on the show? Bill's gonna be on." And I said, "Is Bill cool with it?" "Oh, yeah. No problem." So then I go there, and it's like, it turns into this thing that you see happening on camera. It's like, it's weirdness times... it's like a, like a sk- like a skit, but it's real. And, and Bill's on me, then Bill's on Howie, and it gets just go... Okay, so I just told you basically everything I know, okay? I have people I've known for 20, 30 years coming up to me, going, "What do you think?" And I say, "I don't, I don't, I don't think we're related. I mean, yeah, there's a resemblance, but I don't think we're related." "Well, did you get a DNA test?" And I'm like, "No, I don't... There's nothing to get a DNA test for." "Well, I think he's your brother." So people that know me, and I'm telling them I don't think he's my brother, now they want a DNA test to prove it.

Joe Rogan 4:01 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 4:02 That's how much it- it's taken on a life of its own.

Joe Rogan 4:04 Do you think it's just because they want a DNA test 'cause it's fun if he's your brother?

Billy Corgan 4:07 No, no, they're convinced-

Joe Rogan 4:09 For real, for real?

Billy Corgan 4:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 4:10 Really?

Billy Corgan 4:11 For real, I swear to God. I mean, pe- people I'm close to, people that were at my wedding, I'm like, they're like, "No, you need a DNA test."

Joe Rogan 4:18 Did Bill's dad know... well, did your dad know Bill's mom?

Billy Corgan 4:24 No, my father wouldn't talk to me about it at all. Okay, some more context.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Okay.

Billy Corgan 4:30 My stepmother in that same time, 10 years ago, when she told me that she thought Bill Burr was my half-brother-

Joe Rogan 4:35 Jesus.

Billy Corgan 4:35 ... this guy I don't know, r- right?

Joe Rogan 4:37 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 4:37 I mean, it's just imagine if like, "Hey, hey, do you know Joe Polanski?"

Joe Rogan 4:40 Right.

Billy Corgan 4:40 And you look up, and it's a famous comedian. That's, you know what I mean? That was-

Joe Rogan 4:43 Right, right, right.

Billy Corgan 4:43 So, in that same, uh, thing with my stepmother, she told me that she thought my father had sired 12 children.

Joe Rogan 4:51 Whoa.

Billy Corgan 4:51 Il- il- you know, uh-

Joe Rogan 4:53 All over the place.

Billy Corgan 4:53 All over the place. He was a traveling, uh, musician, and a whore, to his own admittance. So it kinda makes sense. He once told me he'd slept with 1,000 women, so-

Joe Rogan 5:02 Jesus.

Billy Corgan 5:02 12 out of 1,000, (laughs) you know what I mean? It's the-

Joe Rogan 5:05 Normal odds.

Billy Corgan 5:05 The ma- yeah, the math are-

Joe Rogan 5:06 It's actually pretty good.

Billy Corgan 5:07 Yeah. Um, and so, um, when I went to my father, and I told him what my stepmother had said, he got really cagey and wouldn't tell me anything. He promised me that he would write down the names of the, of the illegitimate children on a piece of paper so I could find them after he died.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Oh my God.

Billy Corgan 5:23 A- and he died, he's died, and there's no paper.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Oh my God.

Billy Corgan 5:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:27 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 5:27 So now I got people wanting DNA tests because they're convinced that Bill is my half-brother.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Is Bill willing to do a DNA test?

Billy Corgan 5:34 I think that's ridiculous, (laughs) you know what I'm saying? It's like-

Joe Rogan 5:37 No, you have to do it.

Billy Corgan 5:37 No, no, that's not-

Joe Rogan 5:39 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 5:39 That's what I'm saying. I mean, first of all, to Bill's credit, he's been... you could, ah, y- every thing you saw on camera was his, I think his general irritation on the thing, but he also kind of finds it funny 'cause he's a comedian.

Joe Rogan 5:50 I thought it was a skit. I thought you guys put together a skit.

Billy Corgan 5:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:54 I really did. I thought you got, 'cause I thought, you know, Bill does a lot of acting. I thought you guys were just fucking around. You like pro wrestling. I thought you guys just decided to f- troll the world.

Billy Corgan 6:03 Okay, let me put it to you this way-... have you ever seen it, and I- I ... Well, I'm assuming, but you tell me if I'm wrong. Two guys get in the ring to roll around a bit, right?

Joe Rogan 6:13 Okay.

Billy Corgan 6:13 They're bros, they're gonna roll around a bit.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Uh-huh.

Billy Corgan 6:15 Emotions kick in, and next thing you know, somebody's tapping somebody out.

Joe Rogan 6:19 Right.

Billy Corgan 6:19 Do you ever see that happen?

Joe Rogan 6:20 For sure.

Billy Corgan 6:20 Okay.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 6:21 So, in the, in the heat of that moment with Bill and Howie egging it on, you know, like, the emotionality of the thing came out because it's a sort of an ... It, it, it's sort of a weird thing. We're like ... We're suddenly in the middle of a situation. It's like a meta-situation.

Joe Rogan 6:37 Right.

Billy Corgan 6:37 So, yes, on some level, we were playing along. But then it starts to become like, "Wait, this is kinda weird," and then it starts to kick in. And then Billy Bush is in there, and it just-

Joe Rogan 6:46 Oh.

Billy Corgan 6:46 It took on a life of its own. So what I'm saying is, is there's enough there that people are all over me to come up with more answers, but-

Joe Rogan 6:55 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 6:55 Do you see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 6:56 I do see.

Billy Corgan 6:57 It's like it, it spun out of control into its own thing. Now it's the DNA test problem.

Joe Rogan 7:01 Oh my God.

Billy Corgan 7:02 Which is a bit on its own. Like, we gonna do like a live stream? We, uh, we'll do it here, me, you, and Bill. Like, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 7:07 Well, people would trust you if the two of you got together and just both took a DNA test and found out you were brothers.

Billy Corgan 7:13 I don't think Bill's my half-brother, but he, he looks-

Joe Rogan 7:16 Well listen, there's a simple way to find out. I'll finance it. How much is a DNA test? (laughs) How much does a DNA test cost to find out if someone's your sibling, Jamie? Let's find out. It can't be that much money. It's 2025.

Billy Corgan 7:28 We'll do it. M- We'll get it sponsored.

Joe Rogan 7:30 Yes. Maybe 23andMe. But it ... Didn't they get sell out to somebody? Somebody buy them? 200 bucks?

Narrator 7:35 200 bucks.

Joe Rogan 7:36 There we go. I'll pay 200 bucks to find out. Why wouldn't you wanna know? If I thought somebody was my half-brother, I'd be like, "For real?"

Billy Corgan 7:44 I do. I, I don't think it's necessary.

Joe Rogan 7:45 If I found out Sebastian Maniscalco was my half-brother, I'd be like, "Kinda ... I could kinda see that. Maybe."

Billy Corgan 7:53 A- a- again, all I know is I don't think, but when I look at him, he looks just like my father.

Joe Rogan 7:59 Right.

Billy Corgan 8:00 Like, he doesn't look ... We look similar-ish, but when he, when I look at him, he's got the same thing as my dad had. I don't know how to ... You would know if somebody looked like your dad.

Joe Rogan 8:07 Sure, yeah, yeah.

Billy Corgan 8:08 Right? So that's where it's freaky for me.

Joe Rogan 8:10 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 8:10 And, and, uh, you know, uh, if you wanna play the game one step further, you got two world-class communicators. People w- might argue against me calling myself a world-class communicator, but I've been doing it for over 30 years.

Joe Rogan 8:21 You're a world class communicator.

Billy Corgan 8:22 God bless. So, it, it's not too crazy that you'd have one guy go this way and one g- ... You know what I mean? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:28 Not at all, no. Especially when you consider how many different ways you've gone. Like, not just Smashing Pumpkins, but pro wrestling. You know? It's like you-

Billy Corgan 8:35 And, and now, and now I'm into your game, which is podcasting.

Joe Rogan 8:38 Yeah. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Being independent is good, but you should never be afraid to ask for help when you need it. After all, we're only human. We can't know everything. That's why it's crucial to have a support system, people you can go to when it gets rough. Think of friends, family members, your partner, hell, even your dog. When you're feeling down, spending time with a furry friend can be a good pick-me-up. But I get it. Sometimes you don't want to or can't go to them for help. For these moments, try therapy. It can be a good source of support in any area of your life, whether you're working on personal relationships, job stress, or something else. Therapy can teach you a multitude of different things to help you be your best self, like how to set boundaries, when to let go of toxic relationships, and what to do when you feel overwhelmed. And even more importantly, you can do it in a safe space. If you think therapy might be a good option for you, a good place to start is BetterHelp. They have a diverse network of therapists and everything is online, which can be very convenient if you need a last-minute session. It's also very easy to switch therapists if it's not working out. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/jre to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, .com/jre. So you're in all kinds of stuff.

Billy Corgan 10:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:07 And you easily could've been a comedian as well. Just-

Billy Corgan 10:09 I, I don't think I'm that funny, but-

Joe Rogan 10:10 You're funny. There's a lot of people-

Billy Corgan 10:12 See, see-

Joe Rogan 10:12 ... that are professional comedians-

Billy Corgan 10:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 10:13 ... that aren't as funny as you.

Billy Corgan 10:14 Okay. Uh, I assume you know Carrot Top.

Joe Rogan 10:17 Sure, very well.

Billy Corgan 10:17 Okay, okay. So Carrot Top and I have become friends recently.

Joe Rogan 10:20 He's great.

Billy Corgan 10:20 Love him. This ... Total sweetheart.

Joe Rogan 10:22 Sweetheart of a guy.

Billy Corgan 10:23 And really moused-

Joe Rogan 10:24 Genuine.

Billy Corgan 10:25 E- eh, just a great guy to know.

Joe Rogan 10:26 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 10:27 But as you know, because you do this for a living, suddenly everybody wants to start pitching you bits.

Joe Rogan 10:33 Mm.

Billy Corgan 10:33 So I made the mistake-

Joe Rogan 10:35 Ah!

Billy Corgan 10:35 ... of pitching Carrot Top a bit. I thought I had a good bit for him, and he didn't respond. Do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 10:41 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 10:41 And then I texted him, uh, like an hour later and said, "Hey, did you get that bit I sent?" He goes, "Yeah, that's why I didn't respond."

Joe Rogan 10:46 (laughs) Yeah, people get tired of that. Also, it's like most comics, they want it to be their idea. Like, the whole idea you're ... What you're doing on stage is essentially like, "Here's the world through my eyes."

Billy Corgan 10:58 Ah, I see, I see. Yeah, it's like somebody telling me how to write a song. I get that.

Joe Rogan 11:00 Right.

Billy Corgan 11:00 Um-

Joe Rogan 11:00 I- It's one thing for another c- ... Like, comics give each ... We give each other tags. Like if someone says something, I said, "You know what else you can add to that? Add this."

Billy Corgan 11:08 Oh, I see.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Like, we were ... A buddy of mine was doing this bit on the, uh, the guy who tried to shoot Trump, and we were bantering back and forth.

Billy Corgan 11:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:15 And we came up with like the per- perfect line, like, "Oh!"

Billy Corgan 11:18 There it is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:18 But it was already his premise and his bit. Comics add to stuff for each other for fun.

Billy Corgan 11:24 Oh, I see.

Joe Rogan 11:24 It's like we, we just ... We, we sort of ... You're tossing the ball-

Billy Corgan 11:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:28 ... around in the green room, and then someone will come up with a new line for you. We'll do that, but no one ever says, "Hey, you should go on stage and talk about this."

Billy Corgan 11:36 Yeah. So that's I, I ... So I, I've, I've, I've had a couple professional comedians, Carrot Top preem- preeminent among them, kind of let me know, "You're not that funny."

Joe Rogan 11:44 (laughs) It's probably not that you're not that funny. It's just first of all, you sent a text. Premises in texts are terrible.

Billy Corgan 11:51 Oh, right, okay.

Joe Rogan 11:52 Like, you really have to be-

Billy Corgan 11:52 Yeah, tone, tone is very-

Joe Rogan 11:53 Yeah, it's everything. And you really have to be there with the person and you really have to like say it the way you thought it and then they get it.

Billy Corgan 12:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:01 'Cause then the text is just ... Unless it's just genius, unless it's just like rock solid structure, like, "Oh my God, this joke can't fail."

Billy Corgan 12:08 Well, we do have a movie idea that we're working on.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Oh, yeah?

Billy Corgan 12:11 And it's a good one.

Joe Rogan 12:12 What is it?

Billy Corgan 12:12 I can't give it away. I'll tell you privately.

Joe Rogan 12:14 Oh, okay.

Billy Corgan 12:15 But, uh, it's a good one. It's ab-

Joe Rogan 12:15 You and Carrot Top?

Billy Corgan 12:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:17 Oh, nice.

Billy Corgan 12:18 That he likes.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Okay.

Billy Corgan 12:19 He likes my, my movie idea.

Joe Rogan 12:21 Yeah. I'm telling you a lot of it is that comics don't like people coming to them with a, with a premise. They don't ... They, they, they only want ... And they only want help from other comics generally.

Billy Corgan 12:32 Okay, I get that.

Joe Rogan 12:33 Yeah.It's just one of those things. And even then, it's touchy. Like, I would never help somebody I don't know. I would never go up to them, "Hey, you should say this." Like, never, never, never, never, ever.

Billy Corgan 12:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:42 It's gotta be like your friend. They know you love them. You're fucking around-

Billy Corgan 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:46 ... and you could talk and you could say, "Did you ever try," and say that, you know? "You know what you left out? Like, you forgot..." And they're like, "Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah."

Billy Corgan 12:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:52 "That's a big part of the bit."

Billy Corgan 12:54 Yeah. I never tried standup, so that's, that-

Joe Rogan 12:56 You could do it.

Billy Corgan 12:56 It seems terrifying to me, but-

Joe Rogan 12:58 Eh, so does singing on stage. You could do it.

Billy Corgan 13:01 It's a lot easier to scream with, you know-

Joe Rogan 13:03 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 13:03 ... 50,000 watts behind your voice, you know, than, than tell a joke and bomb and bomb.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Is it though? 'Cause you could suck at that, and then it's terrifying too.

Billy Corgan 13:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Yeah. I mean, it's all hard to do. Anything at a- the highest level-

Billy Corgan 13:14 That's true.

Joe Rogan 13:14 ... is hard to do.

Billy Corgan 13:15 That's true.

Joe Rogan 13:16 You're doing arena shows. I've watched a lot of people perform in front of arenas, uh, singing. It's hard. That's a hard thing to do. Most people freak the fuck out.

Billy Corgan 13:24 Yeah, I don't know. Some- that, that part doesn't bother me, strangely.

Joe Rogan 13:27 Well, that's why you're good at it. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 13:29 (laughs) Right? I feel like I'm o- I, I kind of know what I'm doing up there for some reason.

Joe Rogan 13:33 Well, also I think it's, like, there's a build-up, right? You start working small clubs. You make your way to larger places, and then e-

Billy Corgan 13:38 That's true.

Joe Rogan 13:39 ... eventually you sell more-

Billy Corgan 13:40 That's true.

Joe Rogan 13:40 ... and more records. Like, Smashing Pumpkins is like, they burst on the scene and sort of keep ge- you guys kept getting more-

Billy Corgan 13:48 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:48 ... and more popular. So you kinda got accustomed to it.

Billy Corgan 13:51 Yeah, you do normalize to the-

Joe Rogan 13:52 Yeah, you normalize.

Billy Corgan 13:53 ... the insanity of standing in front of 10,000 people.

Joe Rogan 13:54 Same as comedy. You normalize.

Billy Corgan 13:56 What's the biggest, uh, show you've ever done, comedy?

Joe Rogan 14:00 25,000.

Billy Corgan 14:01 That's a lot of people.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Yeah, me and Chappelle, we sold out the Tacoma Dome.

Billy Corgan 14:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:05 And we were, we were standing backstage. I'll never forget it. He l- he looked at me, like right before he goes on stage, he goes, "Not a lot of motherfuckers get to do this." (laughs)

Billy Corgan 14:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:14 We were just laughing at fun, much fun we were having.

Billy Corgan 14:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:18 25,000 people, it was crazy.

Billy Corgan 14:20 For comics.

Joe Rogan 14:20 In the round too, in the round.

Billy Corgan 14:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:22 It was very fun though. It was very fun.

Billy Corgan 14:25 I actually know Dave from way back in the day.

Joe Rogan 14:27 He's the best.

Billy Corgan 14:28 When he first, first kind of burst on the scene, we used to hang out a little bit. So I feel like it's cool that I knew him.

Joe Rogan 14:33 Like what year is this?

Billy Corgan 14:34 Like earl- like w- remember he did s- like a couple things on SNL, like really early on? Or he was kind of around TV. It was like when he f-

Joe Rogan 14:41 Mm-hmm.

Billy Corgan 14:41 The first year he was on television, I remember I'd see him in New York and he was hanging out with some other... Maybe it was 'cause he was hanging out with SNL people.

Joe Rogan 14:48 Oh.

Billy Corgan 14:48 And I'd see him out in New York back as guests with like na- late 90s?

Joe Rogan 14:52 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 14:52 Early 2000s. And so-

Joe Rogan 14:53 Okay.

Billy Corgan 14:54 ... I knew him when, I don't wanna say he was a nobody, but I, like-

Joe Rogan 14:56 He wasn't famous yet.

Billy Corgan 14:57 ... he was, he wasn't a known... I, I, I'd seen him on TV but he wasn't like a household name like he is now.

Joe Rogan 15:01 Right, right, right.

Billy Corgan 15:02 And so it's... So there w- there was this one night where I was out... I did a benefit for Roger Waters and, uh, and military vets. It was amazing, in New York. It was all these guys who were like single, double and triple amputees playing Pink Floyd music. And so I did this concert with them, with, um, Roger. So afterwards, somebody came and said, "Oh, Chappelle's in this hotel," you know? And I hadn't seen him for a few years and I said, "Oh, I, I know him." And, and you could see people think like, "You don't know him."

Joe Rogan 15:28 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 15:28 You know what I mean? So when he came by, I was like, "Oh," you know? It was like that moment, like, "See, motherfuckers? I do know him."

Joe Rogan 15:33 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 15:34 So, what a great guy though. Such a, what a-

Joe Rogan 15:35 He's a genuine person, yeah.

Billy Corgan 15:36 What a... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:37 He's another sweetheart. Just a sweet, sweet guy. Easy to hang out with, very fun.

Billy Corgan 15:42 Oh, yeah. I mean, the guy, like guys with that kind of mind is just, it's just, it blows my mind 'cause they just... I mean, you could, I, I just, I don't know. I could sit and listen to for hours.

Joe Rogan 15:50 He's also, he's kind of a legend for what he did. You know, he left-

Billy Corgan 15:53 Oh, walked away?

Joe Rogan 15:54 ... left Comedy Central in the height of Chappelle's Show, passed up on a $50 million deal, went to Africa, hung out there, and then came back and didn't do standup for 10 years. Didn't do standup.

Billy Corgan 16:05 I didn't know that... I didn't know that he didn't do standup for 10 years part.

Joe Rogan 16:08 He would do standup occasionally for free.

Billy Corgan 16:11 Okay.

Joe Rogan 16:11 So what he would do is he'd bring like a speaker to the park and like set up a mic in the park in Seattle and just start doing standup and everybody would be like, "Holy shit, is Dave Chappelle-"

Billy Corgan 16:18 Was he making any money or was he just-

Joe Rogan 16:21 Nope. Nope. Just living off of his Chappelle's Show money.

Billy Corgan 16:23 Wow.

Joe Rogan 16:23 He had a, a ton of money.

Billy Corgan 16:24 I didn't know that part.

Joe Rogan 16:25 He made millions of dollars from the show, passed up on 50 but probably made-

Billy Corgan 16:28 I remember that.

Joe Rogan 16:29 And, you know, but it's-

Billy Corgan 16:30 Remember it became a big conspiracy thing?

Joe Rogan 16:32 Yes.

Billy Corgan 16:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:32 It became a conspiracy why he left.

Billy Corgan 16:34 That he was, he was saying no to the Illuminati-

Joe Rogan 16:35 Right.

Billy Corgan 16:36 ... and all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 16:37 Right, right, right. (laughs) Those are always fun.

Billy Corgan 16:39 That was some Alex stuff, right?

Joe Rogan 16:40 Yeah. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 16:40 You know what I mean? It's like, you're like, "What?"

Joe Rogan 16:42 Are you sure that's what happened? I, I kinda know what happened because the, the, the people that were running Comedy Central back then, I had dealt with. There were... It was, it was a re- nice folks, shouldn't have been running comedy. They shouldn't have been telling comedians what to do. And they wanted to-

Billy Corgan 16:57 See, we're back to telling comedians what to do.

Joe Rogan 16:59 It was, well it was a situation where a bunch of non-creatives had gotten involved in the process. I'm sure you're familiar how that happens.

Billy Corgan 17:06 This, this is so, so dear to my heart.

Joe Rogan 17:08 It's disgusting. It's the worst, the worst aspect of show business. You, you start dealing with money people and then they start doing something that they're not supposed to be doing, which was like adding, changing, directing-

Billy Corgan 17:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:19 ... moving ideas. And then you're dealing with literal morons that somehow or another got this job and they're telling you how to do what you're doing, which is what is the best sketch show in the world. And so you don't-

Billy Corgan 17:31 And still, still popular.

Joe Rogan 17:33 It's as good as any sketch show that's ever existed and they only did two seasons. So, he just decides, "I'm just gonna be a artist. I'm just gonna hang out."

Billy Corgan 17:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:42 "I'm no- not gonna make any money." He would do like, show up at open mic nights. So they'd have open mic nights for like musicians, play folk songs. And at the end of that, like midnight, he would pull up and start talking. And by 15 minutes into his set, everybody had told everybody that Dave Chappelle's there. So then the place is packed.

Billy Corgan 17:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:58 And he did this for like 10 years, man.

Billy Corgan 17:59 Oh, I didn't know that part.

Joe Rogan 18:00 Yeah, he just fucked around. We'd, you'd hear about him just showing up places and fucking around.

Billy Corgan 18:04 I love that.

Joe Rogan 18:05 And then somewhere, I think it was like 2000- 13, 14, starts doing standup again.

Billy Corgan 18:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:11 And then boom.

Billy Corgan 18:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:14 That's, that's really how it all went down.

Billy Corgan 18:17 It's, it's really a testament to his pow- the power of his talent because my wife, who's 32, she loves him. And it's so cool because like, we went to see him, I think, at, uh, Radio City Music Hall. And it's so cool 'cause it's like, you know, I'm 57, she's 32. It's like, that he can-... speak to both of us-

Joe Rogan 18:35 Right.

Billy Corgan 18:36 … so-

Joe Rogan 18:36 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 18:37 … right, right to the heart. It's, it's really a, a rare gift. I mean, he, he, I, you know, you got a picture out there of Richard Pryor, who was, you know, from Illinois like myself. And my father loved Richard Pryor, and so because of my father's love for Richard Pryor, I paid a lot of attention to Richard when I was, when I was a kid. And he strikes me, he's got that, that transcendent ability-

Joe Rogan 18:54 Mm-hmm.

Billy Corgan 18:54 ... to somehow almost heal the country-

Joe Rogan 18:57 Right.

Billy Corgan 18:57 ... with his messaging.

Joe Rogan 18:58 Yes. The bits aren't just bits.

Billy Corgan 18:59 Eddie Murphy had that too in his own way, but, uh, b- but to me, Chappelle is more in the p- the Pryor mode of like, somehow he can address issues that are uncomfortable.

Joe Rogan 19:08 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 19:08 And, and, and, and I know a lot of people have issues with what he says, but I, I, I ultimately see what he's trying to do is heal things.

Joe Rogan 19:15 Yeah. Eh, mu- very much like Pryor. Whereas Eddie Murphy was just really, really funny.

Billy Corgan 19:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:21 You know, just really, really funny. And he's still to this day, I always, to this day, I'm like, "Why doesn't that guy come back?" He, he did this one thing when he got the Mark Twain Award where he did this whole impression of Bill Cosby finding out they had to give away one of his awards because of, he was caught up in the scandal, and so he's doing a Cosby impression, and it's fucking genius. It's dead-on. He's doing like brilliant standup and he hasn't touched standup in 25, 30 years.

Billy Corgan 19:46 Y- I mean, you would think he would just do one victory lap tour. I mean-

Joe Rogan 19:48 If he wanted to, it would be sold out-

Billy Corgan 19:50 Talk about stadiums.

Joe Rogan 19:51 ... every... Oh my God. And I guarantee you that guy would be the best. He, he was so fucking talented, but just decided it was just too much, "I'd rather just do movies."

Billy Corgan 20:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:01 Which is kinda crazy. But Ch- Pryor never did, obviously. Pryor kept doing standup the entire time.

Billy Corgan 20:05 Has anyone ever tried to pull you in the movie, movie orbit?

Joe Rogan 20:08 Yeah. Yeah. I'm not-

Billy Corgan 20:10 Like action hero, or-

Joe Rogan 20:11 Yeah, I'm not interested. I'm not interested.

Billy Corgan 20:13 They only offer me parts like s- a serial killer, so-

Joe Rogan 20:15 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 20:16 ... I always turn it down.

Joe Rogan 20:17 Yeah. I've, there's been a few tempting ones. But, um, no. I don't have that kind of time. And I, I also don't have the desire to do it. It's not something I enjoyed. Like-

Billy Corgan 20:26 Sitting on that set all day seems like a-

Joe Rogan 20:28 It's a lot of work. It's hard. And to be a real good actor, like a really good actor, you know, the, the rehearsing and the, the practicing and the going over the character, it's like, I couldn't do it because I don't have the time. I, it would require everything I have.

Billy Corgan 20:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:41 If you really wanted to do it right, if I really wanted to do a role in a movie where I p- I played somebody, I would have to fucking really spend time not doing anything but that. You know?

Billy Corgan 20:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:54 It's just not ... That's not my jam. There's people out there that do it. I'm glad they do it, because I love movies.

Billy Corgan 21:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:00 But I don't wanna do it.

Billy Corgan 21:01 Did you watch the, uh, Oscars?

Joe Rogan 21:03 I did not.

Billy Corgan 21:04 Me neither.

Joe Rogan 21:04 I never watch award shows. I don't think you should give away awards for art. I think it's silly. I don't get it, I think it's dumb. I think it's all, uh, r- th- really who's making money is the people that are putting it on television. I mean, that's really what it is. It's just a big money grab. They're all just selling advertising and everybody's wearing a tux, and it's like ...

Billy Corgan 21:23 Well, certainly the public's growing disinterest in awards-

Joe Rogan 21:27 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 21:27 ... shows, is some indication that people no longer believe in either the integrity of the process or the, or the in- maybe the intent of the process?

Joe Rogan 21:36 Right. Well, the integrity of the process-

Billy Corgan 21:38 Which is, which-

Joe Rogan 21:38 ... and the intent are both compromised, right? Because there's, there's people that y- uh, th- like you could kinda guess just by the subject of some movies whether or not they're gonna win an award.

Billy Corgan 21:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:47 Because, you know, people feel obligated to address this very important message.

Billy Corgan 21:51 Yeah. The guy who won, uh, best picture, um, I was actually in talks with about five years ago, because he had made some really cool movies. He made one on, on a s- on cell phones called, I think it was called Tangerine, about prostitutes working the streets in LA, and he got two p- street workers, I believe, and then he cast them. So it was a movie, it wasn't-

Joe Rogan 22:10 Oh, wow.

Billy Corgan 22:10 ... a documentary. It was a really beautiful movie.

Joe Rogan 22:12 Wow.

Billy Corgan 22:12 And then he did that movie called The Florida Project, um, where he, at the end of the movie, they actually snuck into Disney World and shot stuff, and s- somehow Disney let it go.

Joe Rogan 22:22 Really?

Billy Corgan 22:22 Yeah. Um, but it was all kind of about the social milieu around a place like Disney World, like what goes on outside the gates.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Ah.

Billy Corgan 22:29 People living in motels and kind of perpetual tourist economy, kind of living hand to mouth and kinda using the tours- the white whale of tourism to just get enough money, because there's always some turnover, you know-

Joe Rogan 22:41 Uh-huh.

Billy Corgan 22:41 ... whether it's running scams and stuff. So he made a really beautiful movie about that as well. So I, I was in talks with him for a while about doing something and then it just didn't go anywhere, but-

Joe Rogan 22:47 Like what kind of scams?

Billy Corgan 22:49 I can't remember because it's been a few years since the movie, but y- it's just the idea that anywhere there's a tourist economy, there's money to be made.

Joe Rogan 22:56 Right.

Billy Corgan 22:56 You know, there's the guy standing on the corner selling brochures or-

Joe Rogan 22:59 Right.

Billy Corgan 22:59 ... hustling you into a van to see where the stars live.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Oh.

Billy Corgan 23:03 It was kind of about that.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Right, right, right.

Billy Corgan 23:04 It was about a cast of characters living in the shadow of, of this idealistic place.

Joe Rogan 23:10 Right, just like those Hollywood tour people that you would get in LA.

Billy Corgan 23:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Yeah. Those were the, the weirdest fucking people.

Billy Corgan 23:17 Well, I always get offended when I walk down Hollywood Boulevard and they, they think I wanna go on it, you know what I mean? It's like I don't know what it is they, I feel like, "I don't wanna go on your tour."

Joe Rogan 23:25 You look like a guy ...

Billy Corgan 23:27 Totally, I get offended like, "I don't wanna go on your tour."

Joe Rogan 23:28 Who, who'd get on a tour, just got off the boat.

Billy Corgan 23:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:30 Just came here from Nebraska.

Billy Corgan 23:31 Totally, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:33 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 23:33 Like, "Gee, I wonder where the stars live," you know?

Joe Rogan 23:35 That's such a creepy thing to do. Just drive around and point, "That's where Ben Affleck sleeps."

Billy Corgan 23:39 But they've been doing it since the '30s.

Joe Rogan 23:41 Yeah, forever, yeah.

Billy Corgan 23:42 I mean, I, I have some of the old brochures, you know, see where Greta Garbo lives and all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 23:47 It's just always been weird. Well, back then it was even weirder because those were the first stars.

Billy Corgan 23:54 Well, back then, I mean, they, they, they went way out of their way to turn them into gods, you know, the, they airbrushed the shit out of every photo and, and they-

Joe Rogan 24:02 Right.

Billy Corgan 24:02 ... they'd cover up scandals. There's that one famous scandal where one of the top male stars, maybe it was Gary Cooper or Cary Grant, ran somebody over in a car.

Joe Rogan 24:10 Really?

Billy Corgan 24:10 You don't know about that?

Joe Rogan 24:11 No.

Billy Corgan 24:11 You might wanna look that one up.

Joe Rogan 24:13 I know the Fatty Arbuckle one.

Billy Corgan 24:14 It was, w- w- w- w- it w- no. It was a top A-level star-... I think he was drunk, ran over somebody in a car, and somebody from the studio went to jail for, like, seven years and took the wrap.

Joe Rogan 24:23 Whoa.

Billy Corgan 24:24 So that the star could stay out, and the studio paid the guy, like, a stipend to go to jail.

Joe Rogan 24:28 Wow.

Billy Corgan 24:28 It's a very famous story. So some guy did seven years or something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:33 That's crazy. You know, there's a similar story about that in China, with, uh, the bodies exhibit. You know the, uh-

Billy Corgan 24:40 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:41 There was a woman who was married to a mayor of, uh, one of the cities in China. And this woman who was married to this mayor, the, the mayor was having an affair with a TV newscaster, and she got the TV... He got the TV newscaster pregnant. And apparently there was a confrontation between the woman and the wife, and the lady winds up missing. She gets scrubbed from the internet. I mean, she's scrubbed. There's only, like, a photo of her on the internet.

Billy Corgan 25:12 Wow.

Joe Rogan 25:12 And then all the sudden, in the body works exhibit-

Billy Corgan 25:15 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 25:15 ... there's an eight-month pregnant woman-

Billy Corgan 25:17 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 25:18 ... who they believe is this newscaster. Here's the other part. The woman who's the, the mayor's wife is also the manager of the local plastination factory, where they take the bodies and they, um, imerge them, they, they i-immerse them in these solvents and turn them into statues. This woman was the manager of the place that produced the woman with the eight-month fetus in her body. And you can still see it, like, it's on tour. You can go see this lady who was most likely murdered. So, then, she didn't just kill that lady. She poisoned some, uh, British, uh, businessman. So she poisons this guy and she has to go to trial. Well, she doesn't go to trial, some other woman goes to trial who doesn't look anything like her, raises her right hand, the whole thing, goes to jail. So she probably paid some family off, some poor family. "I'll give you $1 million. Give up your daughter." She goes to jail. Everybody's ri... It's not a bad jail. She's gonna do yoga, play checkers.

Billy Corgan 26:24 Have you heard the ones where, like, um, 'cause there's so much plastic surgery in Asia, where guys are suing their wives because they marry some woman-

Joe Rogan 26:31 Oh, yeah.

Billy Corgan 26:31 ... that they think is hot, and then the kid comes out and the kid's not very good-looking.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Jawline's totally different, different nose. Yeah, there's a lot of plastic surgery over there. In Korea, it's nuts. They do their eyes in this, like, strange doorway.

Billy Corgan 26:41 Somebody told me as much as 75% of the women in South Korea have-

Joe Rogan 26:44 What?

Billy Corgan 26:44 ... surgery. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:45 Is it really?

Billy Corgan 26:46 Somebody who's Korean told me that. I don't know if that's true.

Joe Rogan 26:47 Google that, Jamie. We need to find this out. This is important information.

Billy Corgan 26:51 'Cause last time I was in Korea I was like, "Wow, these women here are really hot." Like, this was, like, woman after woman after woman, and somebody pulled me aside and said, "Bro, that's, like, that's just all plastic surgery. That's not real."

Joe Rogan 27:02 Wow. Wow.

Narrator 27:03 One third as many, as up to 50% or higher, maybe. Some people have said.

Joe Rogan 27:07 A lot of liars. A lot of them ladies are lying about it.

Narrator 27:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:11 Up to 50% or higher. Well, higher could be like 75%. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 27:15 I like, I like this whole new business of, um, like, plastic surgery tourism, where it's, like, cheaper to get on a plane and go somewhere-

Joe Rogan 27:21 Oh, like, go to Turkey and get your hair transplanted.

Billy Corgan 27:22 Yeah, somebody was recently trying to talk me into going to South Korea to get some work done on my face.

Joe Rogan 27:26 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 27:26 (laughs) It's, like, so, like, what?

Joe Rogan 27:29 I guess the idea would be you could go recover over there. Your neighbors don't have to see you with bandages over your head.

Billy Corgan 27:34 No, I think it's the idea-

Joe Rogan 27:35 Your face all swollen.

Billy Corgan 27:35 ... it's cheap... it's cheaper.

Joe Rogan 27:36 Yeah, cheaper.

Billy Corgan 27:37 Cheaper and better, because they can do stuff there that we c- we can't do here yet.

Joe Rogan 27:40 Oh, really? What can they do there that we, we, if we can't do here?

Billy Corgan 27:43 Apparently they have, apparently they have some new thing that's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 27:47 What is it?

Billy Corgan 27:48 Uh, it's something... It, it's... I don't... They try to explain it to me. It doesn't make any sense. Some kind of new facelift that's not a facelift or something.

Joe Rogan 27:56 A facelift that's not-

Billy Corgan 27:56 A fac-... A non, like a non-invasive facelift.

Joe Rogan 27:58 Oh.

Billy Corgan 27:58 The guy, it's a, a relative of mine through marriage, uh, a Chinese relative, and, uh, he's in that business and knows the Koreans over there in LA and all this. And he was saying, he was saying, "In five years, this will be the number one thing, so you might as well get to Korea now." I, I... (laughs) This is, this is the stuff I hear when I'm sitting around the hot pot dinner, you know?

Joe Rogan 28:18 Non-invasive facelift. Isn't that weird that, like, that one of our biggest fears is that your face sags?

Billy Corgan 28:26 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how I would feel if I wasn't in the entertainment business, right? I mean, I mean, you're in the cosmetic business-

Joe Rogan 28:32 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 28:32 ... on some level. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 28:33 On some level, I guess.

Billy Corgan 28:34 I g- I know it's not just, like, your, your brain.

Joe Rogan 28:36 It kinda helps be a little bit uglier.

Billy Corgan 28:37 Uh, I never-

Joe Rogan 28:37 Being ugly makes you funnier.

Billy Corgan 28:38 I never, I never thought of you as ugly. I'm not, I'm not attracted to men per se-

Joe Rogan 28:40 Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Billy Corgan 28:41 ... but I never thought you were unattractive. Um-

Joe Rogan 28:43 I'm definitely less attractive than I used to be. That's just time and booze and-

Billy Corgan 28:48 I, I, I don't know. Success-

Joe Rogan 28:49 ... not so much sleep.

Billy Corgan 28:49 ... su- success creates a glow around a man.

Joe Rogan 28:51 It does a little bit of a glow.

Billy Corgan 28:52 Right?

Joe Rogan 28:52 Yeah, it can.

Billy Corgan 28:53 A little, a little bit of a, a little swagger.

Joe Rogan 28:55 Well, just age beats us all. You don't win. Nobody wins. Everybody looks worse at 80 than they do at 20.

Billy Corgan 29:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:02 It's just how it goes.

Billy Corgan 29:04 Yeah. I'm 57, so you kinda look down-

Joe Rogan 29:06 I'm 57 too.

Billy Corgan 29:07 Oh, are you?

Joe Rogan 29:07 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 29:07 When's your birthday?

Joe Rogan 29:08 August.

Billy Corgan 29:08 Okay, I'm older than you. I'm March.

Joe Rogan 29:10 Nice.

Billy Corgan 29:10 But, you know, you look down that h- that, that road-

Joe Rogan 29:12 Yep.

Billy Corgan 29:12 ... and you're like, like... (laughs) Like, "Am I gonna be all right when I get to 80?" You know?

Joe Rogan 29:17 Exhales very few people are. You know, there's a few people at 80 like, "Wow."

Billy Corgan 29:20 When you're call- when you're calling UFC, like, 972 or, like, I don't... You know, I don't know what the number would be, but-

Joe Rogan 29:26 Yeah, I'm worried about Bruce Buffer 'cause Bruc- Bruce Buffer, he puts out so much energy. Well, I was telling the guys the other day, one day he's just gonna be in the middle screaming someone's name and he's just gonna fucking check out, like, right in the middle. "It's time!" Boom. His eyes will roll back.

Billy Corgan 29:43 But that's, for any performer, that's the way you go out.

Joe Rogan 29:45 Oh.

Billy Corgan 29:45 You, you go out on your shield, right?

Joe Rogan 29:47 That would be amazing. I don't want him to die, I love him, but if he did die that way, I'd be like, "What a legend. What a legend."

Billy Corgan 29:54 ... the Buffers, right? Both of them.

Joe Rogan 29:55 Oh, yeah. Isn't it crazy that they didn't know each other until they were like 30?

Billy Corgan 29:58 I only have, I-

Joe Rogan 29:59 He didn't even know he had a brother.

Billy Corgan 30:00 I only have-

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Billy Corgan 31:27 I only have one Michael Buffer story, if you wanna hear it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:29 Sure.

Billy Corgan 31:30 So I went to see, uh, uh, Holyfield-Lennox Lewis at Madison Square Garden.

Joe Rogan 31:35 Oh, wow.

Billy Corgan 31:36 And I was hanging out with all the, all the cool people at the time. So I'm in the fourth row, and it was infamously a draw. It was almost all English tourists that had come in for the fight. They were booing the national anthem. I mean, it was a pretty riotous-

Joe Rogan 31:48 Whoa.

Billy Corgan 31:48 ... at- atmosphere. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't know anything about fights, but it was a pretty boring fight, and it, I, I, it ... Lewis seemed to be a little bit more agile 'cause of youth and all that. Anyway, so right when I, uh, you know, they're, they're in ... Whatever they're doing, HBO, if they're over there in the corner, they're doing their bit. You know what I mean? They're talking before they go to the scorecards. And a guy leans forward, the, the ref, to tell someone in the second row, might have been Don King, and I hear 'em go, "It's a draw." Right? So I, I knew it was a draw like 60 seconds before they announced it.

Joe Rogan 32:27 Whoa.

Billy Corgan 32:27 And I was with a lot of well-known people, and I said, "Run." And they're like, "What do you mean?" I said, "We gotta run." Like, and I started grabbing people and we ran out of Madison Square Garden. And we're almost totally out the building, you know, kind of where you get to the concourse part? And you hear the decision and it's like brr, and people start, like here comes the riot vibe.

Joe Rogan 32:49 Really?

Billy Corgan 32:49 So somehow we ended up, because it got so-

Joe Rogan 32:51 Was it because the decision was bad?

Billy Corgan 32:53 Well, the English people didn't like that it was a draw.

Joe Rogan 32:55 Oh.

Billy Corgan 32:56 'Cause Holyfield was on the older side and ...

Joe Rogan 32:58 Right.

Billy Corgan 32:59 I don't know, it's not a well-renowned fight, it just-

Joe Rogan 33:01 I g- I can't remember it.

Billy Corgan 33:02 It was just a draw. It was a stone-cold boring fight, but because it was a draw and all these English people were mad and Don King was involved, so it was like all that typical brouhaha that was going on in boxing at the time.

Joe Rogan 33:12 Right.

Billy Corgan 33:12 Anyway, so because of the, suddenly the riotous or po- potentially riotous s- situation, the police started like making people go different ways, like funneling traffic or something. And it was almost like they got like code red or something, 'cause it like suddenly got really weird. So then we couldn't get out of the building. So somebody was like, somebody recognized somebody in our party said, "F- c- follow me." And so then next thing we know, you know, we get, we end up like in the VIP backstage part where it's safe.

Joe Rogan 33:38 (sighs)

Billy Corgan 33:38 And, and there's, and there's, you know, uh, Michael Buffer on a chair. And he wasn't talking to me, but he's talking to somebody, and I heard him just go, "That's bullshit."

Joe Rogan 33:47 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 33:47 Like in that voice, that's all I remember. "That's bullshit."

Joe Rogan 33:51 That's f- ... So was he talking about the decision?

Billy Corgan 33:53 He thought the decision was, was bullshit, you know?

Narrator 33:55 Because the Letterman's card was heavy for Lewis.

Joe Rogan 33:57 Wow, 117-111, Harold Letterman who's always dead on the money. Harold Letterman was always right.

Narrator 34:04 Yeah, so they were saying as it got called, they're like, "This is a travesty."

Billy Corgan 34:06 Yeah, I mean, uh, I mean, again, I'm not a f- ... I mean, I'm not a fight aficionado but I, I thought Lewis was slightly better.

Joe Rogan 34:13 Wow, I forgot about this fight. I completely forgot about this fight. There's so many fights from this era that were incredible. That was an amazing era for heavyweights.

Billy Corgan 34:25 And this is when Don King was still running everything.

Joe Rogan 34:28 Did they have a rematch?

Billy Corgan 34:29 I don't, I honestly don't remember.

Narrator 34:32 I think so.

Joe Rogan 34:32 You don't think so?

Narrator 34:32 No, I think so. When I was typing in, it said two. Let me see.

Billy Corgan 34:35 "That's bullshit."

Joe Rogan 34:36 There's a lot ... (laughs) There was fight with that voice.

Billy Corgan 34:37 (laughs) With that, with that great voice.

Joe Rogan 34:39 He's still trucking. He's still trucking. He still announces huge boxing fights.

Billy Corgan 34:44 I wonder what he, like, like, like ... 'Cause do you ever get that? Like, like, like somebody wants you to do their bar mitzvah or anything? You ever get those requests?

Joe Rogan 34:51 (laughs) No, those don't make it to me.

Billy Corgan 34:52 Like those requests? "Will you come do my bar mitzvah?"

Joe Rogan 34:55 Who won this one?

Billy Corgan 34:57 Is that the rematch? Had to be Lewis, right?

Joe Rogan 35:00 I would imagine.

Narrator 35:02 Oh, similar Letterman card.

Joe Rogan 35:04 Simal- similar card. Let's see if they robbed him twice that they gave it to him.

Narrator 35:07 Yeah, I think it's, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:07 Sorry about that.

Billy Corgan 35:09 Yeah. Well, they got their, got their rematch. Um, now you get this thing like, "Hey, will you come do my ..." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:14 Right, right, right.

Billy Corgan 35:15 Like, like, I wonder what Michael Buffer gets to show up somewhere? You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 35:18 Yeah, it's probably like Saudi Arabia, they have him come over there and introduce someone's birthday.

Billy Corgan 35:22 Like is it, is it like half a, half a milli- half a million thing?

Joe Rogan 35:24 Probably more. Depends, you know? I mean, like very famous people-

Billy Corgan 35:28 You know, in, in my business we call them privates.

Joe Rogan 35:31 Right. I saw Stone Temple Pilots, they played, uh, Dana White's 40th birthday party.

Billy Corgan 35:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:37 And, uh, there was no one in the room other than UFC employees, and they put on a show like it was a fucking sold-out arena. I mean, full-blast, went ... They didn't go through the motions at all. It was a phenomenal show.

Billy Corgan 35:51 Well, that means, that means Dana paid 'em.

Joe Rogan 35:53 Yeah, yeah, it was a lot of money.

Billy Corgan 35:54 Great band, I mean, totally. I love, I love those guys.

Joe Rogan 35:56 But they were so professional. It was like, it was so impressive. And because they were so like powerful on stage, everybody just started paying attention.

Billy Corgan 36:04 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:04 Because it kinda broke out in the middle of this party.

Billy Corgan 36:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:06 We're at this birthday party, we're all standing around tables, eating food, having fun.

Billy Corgan 36:10 It's, it's, it's ... I've done a few things and it's always a bit awkward.

Joe Rogan 36:13 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 36:13 Which is weird 'cause they're all paid gigs.

Joe Rogan 36:15 Right.

Billy Corgan 36:16 But something about a paid-paid gig feels different.

Joe Rogan 36:19 Yeah, it's, there's a lot of entitlement that's attached to like someone's paying you to come perform at their birthday party.

Billy Corgan 36:25 Well, and then you see the guy's wife going, "Who, who's this?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:28 Right, there's that, too. The people that aren't fans, they're like, "Oh, no."... yeah. Yeah, those are weird gigs, 'cause then you go, "How much? (sighs) I could have a one shitty night for $1 million." (laughs)

Billy Corgan 36:45 I mean, I, I'd like to tell you I haven't been there, but I've been there.

Joe Rogan 36:49 Ron White did one last year in Vegas, and he was talking about it. He's like, "I don't, I didn't wanna do it. I kept saying no, and they kept going higher and higher, and eventually it got to a point where I'm like, 'Oh, fuck it, I'll do it.'" And he goes, "It wasn't worth it." He, he goes, "It was one of the worst fucking nights of my life." (laughs) He goes, "All the time I'm doing it, I'm thinking, 'I shouldn't have fucking done this.'" He said, "They didn't laugh, they barely paid attention." It's like, "Why am I here?" But if, like, you're a giant fan, like say if you're a giant Ron White fan and you hire Ron White, but your, like, office doesn't give a shit about comedy and they just wanna, like, have fun and drink-

Billy Corgan 37:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:25 ... and eat hot dogs.

Billy Corgan 37:26 Yeah, I went to a billionaire thing once where the guy had hired Diana Ross.

Joe Rogan 37:30 Whoa.

Billy Corgan 37:31 It had to at least be a million dollar gig for her.

Joe Rogan 37:33 Hmm.

Billy Corgan 37:34 And maybe 700, 800 people.

Joe Rogan 37:36 Wow.

Billy Corgan 37:38 You know? And you're like, "Wow," I mean, basically a private concert with Diana Ross. I mean, that's-

Joe Rogan 37:42 That's pretty dope. If you were really into it and people paid attention, it'd probably be fun. Small, intimate concerts-

Billy Corgan 37:48 I've gotten 'em where they're fun.

Joe Rogan 37:49 Yeah?

Billy Corgan 37:49 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:50 What percentage?

Billy Corgan 37:52 Less than 50.

Joe Rogan 37:54 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 37:54 We don't get a-... To be fair, or, or not fair, we don't get asked to do it a lot. I don't think we're on most people's bingo card for a private event.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Yeah. Who-

Billy Corgan 38:02 I think, I think my, my, my rep precedes me, you know?

Joe Rogan 38:04 It's like a Beyonce thing.

Billy Corgan 38:07 Although, I mean-

Joe Rogan 38:08 She does, like, giant ones in front of-

Billy Corgan 38:08 You, have you ever heard some of the numbers that the, some of those pop people get, get, coming out of Saudi Arabia?

Joe Rogan 38:12 Yeah. I haven't, but-

Billy Corgan 38:13 Like 14 mil, and-

Joe Rogan 38:14 Yeah, for one show.

Billy Corgan 38:14 ... and nobody calling us for... (laughs) You know what I mean? Like-

Joe Rogan 38:17 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 38:18 ... (laughs) I'd take that phone call.

Joe Rogan 38:19 Well, that's one of those things. If, like... Who was that, um, the richest man in India, his son-

Billy Corgan 38:24 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:24 ... had a birthday and it was, like, the most extravagant birthday of all time?

Billy Corgan 38:27 I think they spent 50, 50 mil on entertainment alone.

Joe Rogan 38:30 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 38:30 Something crazy like that.

Joe Rogan 38:31 Oh. God, it's so crazy. That's so much money. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 38:38 Yeah. I mean, I wish there was a perfect formula for it, but there isn't. 'Cause that's what I mean, I, I mean, we, we play... Every time we play, we basically get paid, so-

Joe Rogan 38:47 I think it was a wedding, not a birthday party, right?

Billy Corgan 38:49 It was, uh-

Joe Rogan 38:49 It was a wedding.

Billy Corgan 38:50 Yeah, he got, like, Rihanna to perform. And Lennox Lewis was there. (laughs) Right?

Joe Rogan 38:53 Uh, huh. Yeah. Lennox Lewis was the announcer. Yeah, it's just, that's the weird world of, uh, s- extravagant amounts of money. Like, unbelievable amounts of money, where you wanna hire comedy to come to your house, yeah.

Billy Corgan 39:06 There you go. Previous wedding was 100 million. That's where Beyonce performed.

Joe Rogan 39:08 They, per- spent over 100 million for Anant's sister Isha's wedding in 2018. The ceremony featured a performance by Beyonce.

Billy Corgan 39:15 I mean-

Joe Rogan 39:16 Woo.

Billy Corgan 39:16 ... if I'm Beyonce's manager, she's not going over there for less than 20, 25.

Joe Rogan 39:20 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 39:21 Easy.

Joe Rogan 39:21 Why not? They have so much money. They don't, they won't even notice it. They'll make it back tomorrow in the stock market.

Billy Corgan 39:26 I don't know. I'm saying that they still would get-

Joe Rogan 39:29 Once you get to that goofy hun-... That was 100 and how many million? 190?

Billy Corgan 39:33 It was, uh... It was the previous one was 100-

Joe Rogan 39:33 How much does that cr-... No, I'm sorry, um, how ma- billion.

Billy Corgan 39:37 Yeah, worth 116 billion.

Joe Rogan 39:37 How much is he worth? 116. Yeah. He making $20 million every day, probably. It's, like, rolling in constantly.

Billy Corgan 39:47 I mean, you've, you've met sh-... I mean, you just had a billionaire here, in here-

Joe Rogan 39:50 A couple days ago.

Billy Corgan 39:50 Yeah. I mean, you've met your share of billionaires. It's always an interesting thing how they, how they, how they spend or don't spend their money.

Joe Rogan 39:57 Mm-hmm.

Billy Corgan 39:58 It's, there's no consistent guide for billionaires.

Joe Rogan 40:00 No. I like the Jeff Bezos way. Wear tight shirts, get a yacht, have a hot girlfriend.

Billy Corgan 40:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:05 Let's fucking go. That's what you're supposed to do when you've got $250 billion. You're not supposed to be a fucking weirdo and wear a sweater and go visit Haiti. No, you're supposed to be balling, go to the Mediterranean, popping corks with models. Let's go. You're sup-... (laughs) Get a, get a million dollar watch.

Billy Corgan 40:24 Well, I, I'd like to have a billion dollars-

Joe Rogan 40:25 Who gives a fuck?

Billy Corgan 40:25 ... to, to, to make that decision, see.

Joe Rogan 40:27 Right.

Billy Corgan 40:27 I'm not there yet.

Joe Rogan 40:28 Well, the weirdest one is billionaires that compare themselves to super billionaires and they feel poor. Like, Brian Callen was telling me about his buddy who's worth, I think, $3 billion, and he's like, "I really need to fucking up my game." 'Cause he's friends with a guy who's worth $80 billion, so he feels poor compared to his $80 billion friend. Boy.

Billy Corgan 40:51 I'd like to be poor like that.

Joe Rogan 40:52 The forest for the trees.

Billy Corgan 40:57 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 40:58 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 40:58 Not, not this lifetime, I don't think.

Joe Rogan 41:00 It doesn't seem like fun. It seems like the amount of, uh, stress and energy that must be required to acquire that much fucking money.

Billy Corgan 41:11 Yeah, um, uh, Jimmy Chamberlain of the Pumpkins, the drummer, uh, is friends with Jimmy John, s- the sub, the sub king.

Joe Rogan 41:17 Ah, okay.

Billy Corgan 41:18 So I know Jimmy John a little bit. And we were at dinner one night in Nashville at a, at a place he owns, or with other people, and one of my buddies started pitching him on a, like some kind of money thing. And I just saw his face change, 'cause everybody in the world wants to pi-... We're back to pitching ideas, right?

Joe Rogan 41:34 Of course.

Billy Corgan 41:35 And, uh, and, and, and Jimmy John knows this mutual friend, so i- i- it's not as rude as it might sound coming out of my mouth. But at some point, i- i- he looks at him, he goes, "Tommy, you know how I got that money? I made a lot of fucking sandwiches."

Joe Rogan 41:52 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 41:52 That was the way he shut him down.

Joe Rogan 41:53 The...

Billy Corgan 41:55 Like, like-

Joe Rogan 41:56 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 41:57 ... I know how... I know what I had to go through to make that money. Like, you just-

Joe Rogan 42:00 Right.

Billy Corgan 42:00 You just see me as a walking ATM.

Joe Rogan 42:03 Yeah. Well, it just changes the dynamic of the friendship now, too. Now he's not gonna be able to trust your friend.

Billy Corgan 42:09 Well, nobody, nobody trusts-

Joe Rogan 42:10 'Cause he's always gonna think-

Billy Corgan 42:10 Nobody trusts Tommy.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Tom's a mess?

Billy Corgan 42:12 Tom, Tommy's infamous, actually.

Joe Rogan 42:14 Infamous.

Billy Corgan 42:15 Yes, man. Everybody-

Joe Rogan 42:16 Infa-dash-mess. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 42:18 Um, I've literally been walking down the street in foreign countries and strangers will come up to me and say, "Oh, you know Tommy?" It's like he's just a legendary character in the entertainment business.

Joe Rogan 42:27 What was he trying to pitch Jimmy John on?

Billy Corgan 42:29 Uh, some kind of investment scheme, or something.

Joe Rogan 42:32 Ooh.

Billy Corgan 42:32 Because, uh, uh, my friend Tommy collects billionaires.

Joe Rogan 42:36 Oh, boy.

Billy Corgan 42:37 I c- I c- I call it, uh, he plays billionaire lotto.

Narrator 42:40 Mm.

Billy Corgan 42:40 He's hoping that when one of 'em knocks over, they'll leave him, you know-

Narrator 42:45 Really?

Billy Corgan 42:45 ... a taste. Yeah.

Narrator 42:46 How bizarre. He's like a vampire familiar.

Billy Corgan 42:49 Well, what's interesting about Tommy is his uncle was the, the founder of Hard Rock Café.

Narrator 42:54 Oh.

Billy Corgan 42:54 So he grew up in a family with money, so, uh, in- instead of somebody who you figure was poor and aspirational and wanna hang out with billionaires, he actually came from money.

Narrator 43:03 Right.

Billy Corgan 43:03 So he knows how to speak the language of wealthy people, and so he's kind of generally welcome in those circles, where I, you know, I grew up in the s- poor in the suburbs. I don't know how to roll in that world. And so, yeah... But, uh, yeah, Tommy, I think he's probably up to about seven or eight billionaires that he counts as friends.

Narrator 43:19 And what does he do for a living, this Tommy?

Billy Corgan 43:20 He does... No one knows.

Narrator 43:21 No one knows?

Billy Corgan 43:22 That's the legend of Tommy.

Narrator 43:23 Really?

Billy Corgan 43:23 Yeah, and in fact, I pitched Tommy once on making a documentary called Who the Fuck is Tommy Litnick?

Narrator 43:28 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 43:29 That's his name, Tommy Litnick. And, uh, and he doesn't like the idea.

Narrator 43:33 Yeah, I wonder why. You just outted him.

Billy Corgan 43:35 But, I mean, uh, uh, we don't have time for it, but I could make you a list of 50 people that are super famous, f- like Bono on down, who have pulled me aside and go, "What's the deal with Tommy?"

Narrator 43:46 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 43:47 Right? (laughs)

Narrator 43:48 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 43:48 And just the fact that we're talking about Tommy will really please Tommy, but he'll, he'll take umbrage. In fact, I have to tell you a story about my father too, but, uh, he'll take umbrage with, with the, the, the way I'm portraying him.

Narrator 43:58 I'm sure he will.

Billy Corgan 43:59 The story I wanted to tell you about my father was when I was on your show, um, I told you a story about how I found a, uh, uh, dub- a double-barreled sawed-off shotgun under my father's bed. It was in a guitar case.

Narrator 44:09 Right.

Billy Corgan 44:09 Well, my father heard the show about a month after I told the story on your show. And so I get this text from my father. This is when he's still alive, obviously, and, and, and he goes, "Yeah, I heard what you said on, on Joe's show." (laughs) And I'm like, you know, you're looking at your phone like, "Here it comes," you know, 'cause I thought he was gonna be pissed at me. He goes, "There's one thing you left out of the story." Waiting, text. "Th- the shotgun wasn't loaded." (laughs) That's all he wanted me to know. Like somehow I made it better. (laughs)

Narrator 44:36 How bizarre. Your f- your father sounds like a fucking character.

Billy Corgan 44:39 He was unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Narrator 44:42 What, what did he play?

Billy Corgan 44:44 Guitar.

Narrator 44:45 Wow.

Billy Corgan 44:45 Great, great, great musician. Really, truly great musician. He's the, he's the classic guy that shoulda made it and didn't.

Narrator 44:51 Wow.

Billy Corgan 44:51 So when I made it, it made the whole thing really weird.

Narrator 44:55 Oh.

Billy Corgan 44:56 Because he looked at me and said, "How did my schlubby kid make it and I didn't?"

Narrator 45:01 Wow.

Billy Corgan 45:02 "He must've got lucky. He must've done something."

Narrator 45:05 Wow.

Billy Corgan 45:05 "'Cause if it didn't work for me, how could it work for him?" So that was a weird, a weird thing. But he was talented. I mean, he really was talented.

Narrator 45:12 That's great. Did he... Did you get a l- did you feel resentment? Did you get along with him after that? Or was it weird?

Billy Corgan 45:17 It was a, uh... My father had a lot of issues with drugs, so it was always kind of like it can be with addicts. It was like-

Narrator 45:22 Mm.

Billy Corgan 45:22 ... depending on the day.

Narrator 45:24 Mm.

Billy Corgan 45:24 One day, he would tell me I was the greatest thing that ever happened to him, and I was the number one son and da da da, and two weeks later, he's telling me he wished I'd never been born and I should've been aborted.

Narrator 45:33 Ah.

Billy Corgan 45:33 So it was a weird... It was weird. It was a weird thing. So that's why, that's why that story's funny to me, because he didn't mind that I told you about finding a sawed-off shotgun. He minded that I implied it was dangerous when he made sure that it wasn't loaded, so it was okay. (laughs)

Narrator 45:47 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 45:47 That's the way his brain worked.

Narrator 45:49 Do you believe him that it wasn't loaded?

Billy Corgan 45:50 Yeah, yeah.

Narrator 45:50 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 45:51 Yeah. He was, um... He should've been an arch criminal or something, but he didn't have the nerve.

Narrator 45:59 So he just became a guitarist.

Billy Corgan 46:00 No, he was, he was a drug dealer and, uh, he, he, he used to run drug- drugs and guns for the mob. I mean-

Narrator 46:06 Really?

Billy Corgan 46:07 Oh, he, he would do stuff like... Uh, Melrose Park is kind of an infamous city just outside the S- Chicago city limits, where a lot of the mob wiseguys lived. And he was friends with the kid of a wiseguy, and the kid would dabble because he was protected because his father was a made man. So we go over to that guy's house for hours and just hear these crazy stories about the mob, and my dad would pick up something in a satchel and deliver it, you know? Like, it was all... I- that's still- that's the- I was eight years old going through all this shit.

Narrator 46:35 Wow.

Billy Corgan 46:35 Yeah.

Narrator 46:37 What a crazy environment.

Billy Corgan 46:38 Yeah.

Narrator 46:39 So you're eight years old. He's running drugs and guns.

Billy Corgan 46:41 Oh, yeah.

Narrator 46:43 Wow.

Billy Corgan 46:43 Yeah.

Narrator 46:44 Did you see, like, a lot of shit?

Billy Corgan 46:45 I- I saw a lot of stuff, but it was like, you know when, when adults are trying to hide stuff from you but not really?

Narrator 46:52 Uh-huh.

Billy Corgan 46:53 You know? So like, for example, they would stay in the basement all night and party, whoever he was with. Musicians, whatever.

Narrator 46:58 Right.

Billy Corgan 46:58 So I'd come down at night and there'd be coke everywhere.

Narrator 47:01 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 47:01 In rolled-up 20s.

Narrator 47:02 How old were you?

Billy Corgan 47:02 On Black Sabbath mirrors. I was like 7, 10.

Narrator 47:05 Oh, my God.

Billy Corgan 47:07 So I had a feeling, call it intuition, I had a feeling that he, he wanted me to clean up but not the mirrors. And he was... And I was like, "What's on the mirror that, you know, that you left behind?" He was like, "Oh, that's uh... We have a cold or something, but yeah, it's good you didn't get rid of it."

Narrator 47:24 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 47:24 And then I'm like, "Why do you need the rolled-up 20?" "Oh, I- it's just easier to..." You know? It was like... So it was... You knew it was bullshit, but you d- you're 10, you don't know what coke is. You know?

Narrator 47:33 Right, right, right.

Billy Corgan 47:33 You don't have any concept of what they're doing, but you know something's going on.

Narrator 47:36 And this is constant? This was going on-

Billy Corgan 47:38 Yeah, my dad would do stuff like he'd take me to lunch with his mistresses and stuff and introduce 'em as his friends and...

Narrator 47:43 Wow.

Billy Corgan 47:43 So it was all kind of in-plain-sight weirdness, but you know, you'd be driving down the street and suddenly you were in a drug deal and it was...

Narrator 47:51 Whoa.

Billy Corgan 47:52 He told me, he told me he was shot at nine times and stabbed three times.

Narrator 47:57 Holy shit.

Billy Corgan 48:00 Yeah. You wanna hear a f- a f- it was one of my favorite stories?

Narrator 48:03 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 48:04 So, um, uh, the band had a van. Um, he had a van and we bought it off him and it was our band van for a while. And then after we were... We didn't need it anymore 'cause we got too big, he wanted to buy it back, so we sold it to him. So one day I went over to his house and, uh, if... You know, if this is the driver's thing, well, right behind the driver's, where the driver's head would be but in the middle of the car was a bullet hole. So I said, "Did somebody shoot at you?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."

Narrator 48:32 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 48:32 I said, "Well, what happened?" Exactly. He's like, "Yeah, I- I was, I was stopped over there on, you know, Narragansett and, and some guy came up and I thought he needed something, like a dollar or something, so I rolled down the window. As soon as I did, he put a gun through the... Put a gun through the window at my head."... and then, you know, I hit the gas and sped off. And so, as I went ... He tried to shoot me, but then he missed and the bullet went in behind my head and I got away. That's the story he told me at the time. So years later, the story came back up somehow and he goes, "Oh, that wasn't the real story. Here's the real story." (laughs) So same set-up. He's sitting somewhere, but it was a drug deal. He rolls down the window to make the drug deal. Guy puts a gun to his head. He does hit the gas. The guy does try to shoot him, but because my father's mad now, he spins the van around and he tries to run the guy over. And the guy's trucking down the street and the guy ran into a gas station. So my dad came barreling into the gas station at full speed in this van and he was gonna run the guy over. And he said he reached a point where the guy was gonna ... uh, if, if the guy stopped, he would run him over. But the guy lept a fence and the only way to kill the guy was to have to run the fence and ram into a house that was next to the gas station. So he hit the, hit the brakes and didn't run the guy over.

Joe Rogan 49:44 (exhales)

Billy Corgan 49:45 So that was the real story. So back to the kid thing. (clears throat) Excuse me. That's why it's so hard to pin this whole thing down, because there's so much smoke, you know?

Joe Rogan 49:56 Right.

Billy Corgan 49:56 Like, he did tell me there was another kid named Bill. That's a real thing.

Joe Rogan 50:00 Wow.

Billy Corgan 50:01 And, and when he told me when I was 18, he lied and said he didn't know where the kid was. Well, when my stepmother brought up the whole Bill Burr thing later and I asked him, he admitted that he did know where the kid was, but he didn't wanna tell me.

Joe Rogan 50:13 What did Bill think about this? Like, the possibility that his mother had an affair with your dad?

Billy Corgan 50:18 I, I don't, I don't think Bill gives it any credence. I mean, that's my sense of it.

Joe Rogan 50:22 Okay. He just thinks it's bullshit.

Billy Corgan 50:26 I, I don't know. I don't ... Honestly, I don't know what Bill thinks. You know what I mean? 'Cause, because-

Joe Rogan 50:29 I could see how you would think it'd be possible, 'cause your dad was insane. Your dad sounds like a fucking maniac. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 50:34 I mean, the only, the only way-

Joe Rogan 50:36 Like a Scorsese movie maniac.

Billy Corgan 50:38 Well, uh, put it this way. If a person doesn't believe that somebody is their father, not their real father that they grew up with ... And I do know people who've had that. They grew up with somebody and they f- ... In fact, it just happened to my family.

Joe Rogan 50:50 Right.

Billy Corgan 50:50 That a cousin of mine found out that her father was not her father, and she's in her 60s, 'cause of a DNA test.

Joe Rogan 50:55 Oh, my God.

Billy Corgan 50:56 So, uh, it is possible that people can find out later in life, "Oh, by the way, that guy that you thought was your dad? He ain't your dad. Here's your real dad." Right?

Joe Rogan 51:04 Right.

Billy Corgan 51:05 So it does happen, but I don't get any sense from Bill that he believes that's possible.

Joe Rogan 51:09 Got it.

Billy Corgan 51:10 So the only way it would be possible, if, if Bill grew up in some kinda weird lie, you see what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 51:16 Right.

Billy Corgan 51:16 And I don't believe that, you know?

Joe Rogan 51:18 Right, right.

Billy Corgan 51:18 So-

Joe Rogan 51:18 Well, I don't know he's ... I don't know how much he's talked about his family. But that's ... I just can't imagine a kid coming downstairs and seeing coke all over the mirrors and Black Sabbath albums and people blacked out and empty booze everywhere.

Billy Corgan 51:35 Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:36 Like, like this was a normal thing-

Billy Corgan 51:38 Totally normal.

Joe Rogan 51:38 ... at your house-

Billy Corgan 51:39 Totally normal.

Joe Rogan 51:39 ... to have these wild parties.

Billy Corgan 51:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:40 And you're a little kid.

Billy Corgan 51:41 But I think a lot ... Uh, uh, to be fair, I think a lot of people grew up in that atmosphere. I think we just don't hear about it.

Joe Rogan 51:45 Yeah, but not a lot of people grow up with a dad that running guns and drugs for the mob.

Billy Corgan 51:48 That's true.

Joe Rogan 51:49 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 51:49 That's true. That is true.

Joe Rogan 51:51 That's so insane. That's such a crazy way-

Billy Corgan 51:56 Like, we would have conversations-

Joe Rogan 51:57 ... to grow up.

Billy Corgan 51:57 Like, we would have conversations 'cause, you know, as you get older, you start to ask questions, right?

Joe Rogan 52:02 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 52:02 So I'd say, "Dad, aren't you worried, like, if you get pulled over?" You know, 'cause he would carry, like, a lot of fucking weed in the car just for his own personal use. He smoked constantly, like, my whole childhood. Like, I mean, I just remember l- joint after joint all day.

Joe Rogan 52:15 Jesus Christ.

Billy Corgan 52:16 At the dinner table, in the car, I'd contact high and the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 52:18 Ugh.

Billy Corgan 52:19 So finally at some point, I said, "Are ... Daddy, aren't you worried about if you get pulled over?" And he, he, like, popped the, the, the, the engine. You know old cars, you know, when you pop the trunk? Now what is it called? The hood.

Joe Rogan 52:31 The hood.

Billy Corgan 52:31 Um, he had figured out some system where you could ... if you put w- ... if you put weed in a, in a, in a thing full of whiskey, he said the, the dogs couldn't pick up on the scent.

Joe Rogan 52:42 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 52:44 So there was, like, a compartment in the engine compartment, like a thing, that was full of whiskey, and then he would put a, uh, a waterproof baggie with the weed in the whiskey, and so that if the dog came around the car, it would never, never smell it.

Joe Rogan 52:55 That's hilarious.

Billy Corgan 52:57 So it was, like, life lessons, you know, from pop, you know?

Joe Rogan 52:59 How many ... But dogs can only smell one thing. They're only looking for one thing. When you train a dog, you train a dog either for a bomb or you train him for heroin. You don't train a dog for everything. Like, what do you got? Three barks for coke. The, the way they train dogs is-

Billy Corgan 53:12 Oh, I've seen.

Joe Rogan 53:12 ... it's one thing that they're trained to smell.

Billy Corgan 53:14 Oh, right. They have one, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:15 Yeah. They're good ... If they're looking for bombs, they're only looking for bombs. They're not gonna stop you for weed.

Billy Corgan 53:21 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 53:21 Which is, like, the dumbest thing to train a dog for, to train a dog for weed. I mean-

Billy Corgan 53:25 Well, now, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:26 Now, it's the dumbest, but they still do.

Billy Corgan 53:28 Really?

Joe Rogan 53:28 They still have weed dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Billy Corgan 53:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 53:30 If they smell weed, they'll call the weed dog. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 53:33 Is weed legal in Texas? I don't think it was.

Joe Rogan 53:35 It's not. It's weird. It's decriminalized. There was actually a lawsuit that Ken Paxton tried to stop Dallas from decriminalizing weed, and they just lost in court. So Dallas now, marijuana is decriminalized for personal use. It's stupid. It should be the whole country. It should be legal, just like whiskey is. Don't do it if you don't wanna do it, but, you know, you should probably know what the effects are and we should probably study what the actual correct dose is per person, like we know with drinks. Like, one drink is one drink, right? You know what it is.

Billy Corgan 54:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:08 You, you go to the, the bar, you get a shot of tequila. That's what it is. It's one shot of tequila. Everybody's pretty much ... It's standard. With weed, you don't know what the-

Billy Corgan 54:16 Oh, I see. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:17 You don't know what's the right amount. Like, should I take two hits or three hits? What ... You can build up a tolerance, like your dad. You're smoking weed ... Like, if I smoked weed all day long, I'd be a fucking mess. I'd be paranoid and freaked out. I'd be like, "Everyone's out to get me."

Billy Corgan 54:31 He, he was. But he was.

Joe Rogan 54:31 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 54:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:33 And he just kept doing it. That's what's even crazier. And weed back then was not weed today. It's ... You probably could get some weed that's commensurate with weed today, Acapulco Gold or something wacky, but generally-

Billy Corgan 54:47 They have all these crazy strains now, right? Isn't that the ...

Joe Rogan 54:49 Now they have scientists, botanists got involved in the game.

Billy Corgan 54:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:54 And they, they're, they're making super weed.

Billy Corgan 54:56 I noticed one thing 'cause I was in LA for a couple months this winter, and ...... when they first, whatever, decriminalized in LA, it seemed like everywhere you went, everybody was smoking weed. It became like a thing.

Joe Rogan 55:05 Mm-hmm.

Billy Corgan 55:06 You couldn't go anywhere without smelling, you know, the telltale smoke. And now it seems to have calmed down-

Joe Rogan 55:11 Mm-hmm.

Billy Corgan 55:11 ... and I think it's almost like now it's like Holland back in the day-

Joe Rogan 55:14 Yeah, normalized.

Billy Corgan 55:15 ... where it's, like, so normal-

Joe Rogan 55:16 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 55:16 ... that it's no longer a thing to, like, openly smoke weed. Like-

Joe Rogan 55:19 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 55:19 ... so I think it's gone back to a, "Oh, it's not that big a deal," which I think is probably best. Because there was a year there where you would go there and everybody was stoned.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Mm-hmm.

Billy Corgan 55:27 You couldn't get service at a restaurant.

Joe Rogan 55:28 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 55:28 Like, I mean, it was like people were staring off into space and-

Joe Rogan 55:32 Edibles. Yeah. Well, for sure you're gonna have, like, a normalization period after a while, where it's like weed's normal. It's just like everyone's not drunk all the time, even though you can get liquor everywhere.

Billy Corgan 55:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:45 You choose when to imbibe and when not to, or not to at all. That's... You're supposed to have choices. You're an adult. You're an adult human being. The, the analogy I always make is imagine if it was the three of us in a room, just, just us three, and we were the only people on Earth. We lived on an island and, uh, Jamie just decided he doesn't want us smoking weed. And so, uh, Jamie passed a law and he wants to lock us up if we smoke weed.

Billy Corgan 56:07 Oh, I see.

Joe Rogan 56:08 That's just as ridiculous as 300 million people and one adult decides that the other 300 million people shouldn't be allowed to smoke weed. Like, do it if you wanna do it, don't do it if you don't wanna do it, but you can't... Putting people in a fucking cage for doing something that they want to do that harms no one, but you don't want them to do, is fucking insane. It's just insane.

Billy Corgan 56:30 Well, I, I, I grew up because of my, my father's life... I mean, I don't know what age I became conscious of my dauc- my father doing drugs constantly, but, uh, let's say I was five years old, so that's 1972. So I've been in weed culture since 1972.

Joe Rogan 56:44 Jesus.

Billy Corgan 56:45 So I always thought it was like-

Joe Rogan 56:46 Old Vietnam War days.

Billy Corgan 56:48 Yeah, yeah. And I met all those guys, too, you know, these guys with PTSD and all that stuff. Um...

Joe Rogan 56:52 Wow.

Billy Corgan 56:53 So I guess what I'm after is... I, I never understood what the big deal was, and the only thing that freaks me out are people that are really into weed. Like, you know what I mean? Like the 4/20 crowd.

Joe Rogan 57:05 With their whole identity? Yeah.

Billy Corgan 57:06 Like that's their identity. That freaks me out 'cause it's-

Joe Rogan 57:08 Yeah. It's a crutch for some. It's a tool for others. You know, it's a creativity tool for a lot of people. You know, uh, Carl Sagan was one of them. Carl Sagan.

Billy Corgan 57:17 Carl Sagan was a stoner?

Joe Rogan 57:18 Oh, yeah, huge stoner. He's got one of the best quotes on states of consciousness that are, that are available to people under cannabis that are not available any other time. See if you can find that quote. It's a br- it's a brilliant quote. Yeah, Carl Sagan, I mean, he kinda had to keep it under wraps a little bit because marijuana was really illegal back then, but he still wanted to talk about it sometimes.

Billy Corgan 57:44 I just, I-

Joe Rogan 57:44 It depends on the person. It's like everything else. There's some people that should not drink. They drink and then-

Billy Corgan 57:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:51 ... their eyes turn to shark eyes. They just, they're, they're gone and they go away. Uh, that's it. "The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world." That's not the quote. That's a quote. But the, the other one had to do with states of consciousness that were... that you could achieve. See he's-

Billy Corgan 58:18 It's a very stoner-like thing to say.

Joe Rogan 58:20 Yeah. Hmm. Well, I'm sure he talked about it a bunch, but either way, he was a, a, a n- regular cannabis user. It's supposed to be like everything else. You know, like y- you can have wine in your house. It doesn't mean you're gonna drink wine all day, every day, you know? Just you should not be high all the time.

Billy Corgan 58:40 I just, I just don't want the 4/20 people to hear me that's all.

Joe Rogan 58:42 Well, it's like those, those people, like the MAGA people-

Billy Corgan 58:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:46 ... or, like, the fucking Insane Clown Posse people. Like, it's just, like, it becomes their whole thing. That's the thing. There's nothing wrong with going to an Insane Clown Posse show, but if you wanna be a Juggalo, and that's your whole identity is being a Juggalo-

Billy Corgan 58:58 Jug- Jug- Juggalo is a whole, you know...

Joe Rogan 59:00 It's a whole thing.

Billy Corgan 59:00 We- we've done bus- 'cause of the NWA, we've done business with, with the, the Juggalos, so-

Joe Rogan 59:05 They seem like fun guys.

Billy Corgan 59:06 They're great. No problem with them. Um, you know, Violent J, as he's known.

Joe Rogan 59:11 Well, have-

Billy Corgan 59:11 He was in the NWA for a hot second.

Joe Rogan 59:13 Oh, really?

Billy Corgan 59:13 And he's, and he's kind of re-fired, uh, his, his promotion now, Juggalo, I guess JCW? Juggalo Clown Promotions or something.

Joe Rogan 59:21 I'd love-

Billy Corgan 59:21 So a lot of my wrestlers wrestle for him, too, so-

Joe Rogan 59:23 Oh, okay.

Billy Corgan 59:24 ... and, uh-

Joe Rogan 59:24 I didn't even know he had a wrestling promotion.

Billy Corgan 59:26 They did back in the day. They used to wrestle... I know they wrestled for WCW and TNA, so they were, they were wrestling at the highest level for a while-

Joe Rogan 59:33 Mm.

Billy Corgan 59:34 ... when they were sort of in the '90s times, uh, um, when they were on MTV and all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 59:40 I just love that they have, like, a carnival of outcasts. You know? They... Like, all the outcasts have a home in the Juggalos, and they're all... Like, they have these gatherings of the Juggalos. They look like they're having the best fucking time. Like, they're all like-minded people all partying together.

Billy Corgan 59:58 Yeah, but it's freaky when people admit to secretly being Juggalos. Have you ever had that experience?

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 (laughs) They pull you aside? Okay. That's what I'm telling myself.

Billy Corgan 1:00:06 Uh, a friend of mine, former, former porn star, Sasha Grey, like, sent me a picture of her at, like, 17 in j- in the Juggalo makeup.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 Oh, wow. 17.

Billy Corgan 1:00:16 And you're like, "This is so out there."

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 Juggalo makeup.

Billy Corgan 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 Do they dress... Do they do, like, Insane Clown Posse?

Billy Corgan 1:00:20 'Cause they do, it's, it's a very specific... They do, they do very specific makeup, the Juggalos.

Joe Rogan 1:00:24 Oh, for... Are the Juggalos... Do they have different makeup than the Insane Clown Posse, or is it the same kind of makeup?

Billy Corgan 1:00:28 It seems to me there's this, there's this kind of a particular way they do the Juggalo makeup.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Jamie, can you please google "Juggalo makeup"?

Narrator 1:00:35 Yeah, I think it's a black and white. I don't know if there's rules, but it's, uh, yeah, clown makeup. Juggalos-

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 What does it look like?

Narrator 1:00:41 Like the guy right there.

Billy Corgan 1:00:42 Yes.

Narrator 1:00:42 This guy particularly.

Billy Corgan 1:00:43 But that's Violent J on the top there.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Oh.

Narrator 1:00:44 Yeah, th- the, he's the actual, he's Violent J.

Billy Corgan 1:00:46 That's Violent J there. But, like, they'll do their makeup kinda like how Jay is, is.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 Okay. So some of the people in the audience choose to g- to make their face up. I don't see anybody there with face makeup, though, in that picture.

Narrator 1:00:56 It's hot. It's the summer. They're-

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Oh, yeah. There you go.

Billy Corgan 1:00:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Sweating.

Narrator 1:00:59 Gettin' it washed off.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 Sweating off your makeup.

Billy Corgan 1:01:01 See, see, like, the girl there?

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 ... that split tongue, that dude in the middle, that's a fucking commitment. That's a commitment for, to never having a real job up top.

Billy Corgan 1:01:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 That's a lot. You gotta really hate your parents to split your tongue like that. (laughs)

Billy Corgan 1:01:18 How about the guys who split their cock? Have you ever seen that?

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Yes.

Billy Corgan 1:01:21 Who does that?

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Do you remember the early days of the internet? Um, I don't know how much you were on the internet in the '90s, but there was, uh, a page called The Style Project. Do you remember that?

Billy Corgan 1:01:33 I don't remember that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 It was all, like, some of the most fucked up thing- things that this dude could find on the internet.

Billy Corgan 1:01:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 And he had a whole website, and you would... You'd go to The Style Project and you'd get, like, just insane, fucked up stories about people. And one of them was Body Modification Extreme.

Billy Corgan 1:01:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 And, uh, I became friends with the guy who ran the site, who's actually... That arm wrestler, Devon Lariat, I think that was his brother or someone he's related to was Shannon Lariat. I became friends with him, and he gave me access to his website, and it was like a members only access, where you could, like-

Billy Corgan 1:02:13 So you got the- the- the VIP tier of split cocks?

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Yes. Oh, my God. It wasn't just split cocks. It was c- crazy stuff. Like, some people, they decided that they wanted to get their arm chopped off or their hand chopped off-

Billy Corgan 1:02:26 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 ... so they devised a guillotine. It was Body Modification Extreme. So it was all different people doing different things, like putting, like, uh, horns-

Billy Corgan 1:02:36 Yeah, the- yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... in their head and splitting their cock and- and put... And one of them was this horrible story about this guy whose boyfriend turned him into a eunuch, wanted him to cut his dick off for him and be a slave. And like, Oh, my God. And this... It's like detailing how this guy cut his cock off. Yeah.

Billy Corgan 1:02:56 Donnie Fargo, who was a famous wrestler, he was famous for, um, as a party trick, he would put a nail through his cock.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 Ah. That's not nice. (sighs)

Billy Corgan 1:03:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 I had, uh, David Blaine on, and he made me stick an ice pick through his arm. Yeah, he's got this trick that he does. It's not a trick, though. I really stuck an ice pick through his arm. It's like you can call it a trick, but a lot of things David does is just it freaks you out-

Billy Corgan 1:03:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 ... because, like, you should... But, you know, you can survive an ice pick through your arm. But I had to back it out because I hit a nerve, and, uh, he made me reinsert it. And so I reinserted it, and, uh, then the original one started bleeding, and it got, like, a little bit of a hematoma, started swelling up. We had to get the medics, and we had SEALs working for us. They- they checked it out.

Billy Corgan 1:03:45 Yuri, uh, uh, because of all this body talk... My wife loves all sorts of weird body talk. Um, and she- she wanted me to send you a message 'cause she's l- literally about to have a baby, like, right now.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Oh, congratulations.

Billy Corgan 1:03:56 So we were somewhat concerned coming in because it was possible I may not be able to come because of her about to have this baby. So, um, when we were talking, um, last night, I said, "Please don't have the baby today." You know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 (laughs)

Billy Corgan 1:04:07 "I wanna be on the Joe show." And she said, "You tell Joe that if I start to have the baby, um, I expect him to give you some of his NetJet points so you can get home."

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Ah.

Billy Corgan 1:04:16 It's a very, very rich person joke, but-

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 That's hilarious. Uh, what does that have to do with body modification? Nothing?

Billy Corgan 1:04:21 Because she loves talking about this type of shit.

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Why does she like talking about that stuff?

Billy Corgan 1:04:24 I don't know. It's like... But- but in my family, we didn't talk about anything. Sex, you know, was all just kind of implied.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 Oh, I see.

Billy Corgan 1:04:31 That's what I'm saying. I grew up in a family where nobody hugged, nobody kissed. Everyone hated each other, and- and nobody talked about the secrets-

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 Damn.

Billy Corgan 1:04:39 ... of life.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 Damn.

Billy Corgan 1:04:40 You know, good or bad. It was all kind of in the shadows.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 Damn.

Billy Corgan 1:04:44 You know what I mean? And she grew up in a family where it's like... 'Cause she has five brothers and a- a sister, so they talk about everything, like, to the point where you're just like... At dinner, like, you're talking about all this, like, weird body stuff. I don't wanna be graphic 'cause it turns me off, you know, but they- they seem to think it's funny.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 When did you learn to hug people and be, like, outwardly nice?

Billy Corgan 1:05:04 Um, it's funny you ask me that. My... I didn't grow up with my mother. Um, my mother went crazy when I was four, and I never lived with her again. And we started to become close again when I was in my 20s. And I d- I remember this one time where I walked through her door, and it was that thing where I wanted to hug her because I never really hugged her my whole life. And I just made this decision at 24, like, I was gonna hug my mother and give her a kiss on the cheek.

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 Yeah.

Billy Corgan 1:05:28 And it was like that was the opening of this (laughs) other life where people hug and kiss each other. You know what I mean? I mean, obviously, I had fooled around with girls-

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 Right.

Billy Corgan 1:05:37 ... but it was only within the context of- of being romantic. I had no physical affection in my life outside of that. Now, my kids are all over me, and, you know, I got a nine- and six-year-old, so it's like I'm used to kids, like, you know, rug rats cr- climbing all over you, but I didn't grow up in that at all. Like, I had no... The idea of affection was- was alien.

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Wow.

Billy Corgan 1:05:56 In fact, when I first started chasing girls at 17, 18, l- you know, girls wanna hold your hand or hug you or, you know, in the car, and I was like... It was so freaky to me.

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 When did you relax with the body? (laughs)

Billy Corgan 1:06:07 (laughs) I'm not sure I ever did.

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Well, I gave you a hug when I saw you today. It seemed pretty normal.

Billy Corgan 1:06:12 No, I- I- I'm- I- I'm- I'm actually a very naturally affectionate person, and it was... It's nice to give you a hug, and it's nice to see you, and it's nice to love on people that