Joe Rogan Experience #2284 - Ian Carroll

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Welcome.

Ian Carroll 0:13 Dude.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Very nice to meet you.

Ian Carroll 0:14 Yeah, good to be here, man.

Joe Rogan 0:15 So, uh, let's take... First of all, why do we love conspiracy so much? 'Cause I fucking love them.

Ian Carroll 0:21 Dude.

Joe Rogan 0:21 I love them. I love finding out the dirty little tactics-

Ian Carroll 0:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 0:25 ... and secrets and how the government does things and what the fuck's really going on.

Ian Carroll 0:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:29 Why is it so exciting?

Ian Carroll 0:31 I think it's something, like, deep down in humanity, is, like, we love storytelling.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 0:35 And, and these days, conspiracy theories are, like... We, we... I mean, 10 years ago, conspiracy theories were fringe and they were problematic.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Tell me about it.

Ian Carroll 0:44 Right? Like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:44 I was a conspiracy theorist way back in the day-

Ian Carroll 0:47 You're the hard head.

Joe Rogan 0:47 ... when you were a fucking nut.

Ian Carroll 0:48 Dude, you were-

Joe Rogan 0:48 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 0:48 ... a conspiracy theorist when I was not even here yet.

Joe Rogan 0:51 I was arguing with people about the moon landing-

Ian Carroll 0:53 Right?

Joe Rogan 0:53 ... on the radio before the fucking, before there was any podcasts.

Ian Carroll 0:56 I mean, I, maybe there's some of the mystery element, ma- but the thing is that so many of them are, it- it's, it's a knowledge, it's a thirst for knowledge because some of them are total bullshit.

Joe Rogan 1:05 Yes.

Ian Carroll 1:05 But some of them are, clearly there's something there.

Joe Rogan 1:08 Clearly.

Ian Carroll 1:08 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:09 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 1:09 And realistically, if you had, like, the journalists of integrity from 1960s era alive today and they hadn't been bought out and shot in the head and whatever else happened-

Joe Rogan 1:18 Dude, I think even in the '60s-

Ian Carroll 1:19 ... they would be conspiracy theorists.

Joe Rogan 1:20 ... they were compromised.

Ian Carroll 1:21 Well, they were getting bought out.

Joe Rogan 1:22 The big one, the big one, um, is Woodward with the Watergate story.

Ian Carroll 1:26 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27 Did you see Bill Murray when I had Bill Murray in here the other day?

Ian Carroll 1:30 I haven't watched it yet, no.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Bob Woodward wrote Wired, which is about-

Ian Carroll 1:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:33 John Belushi. Bill Murray read five pages of it and he said, "Holy shit, they framed Nixon." He said the Bob Woodward story about Belushi was so-

Ian Carroll 1:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44 ... full of shit, it was so exaggerated and fake and just filled with nonsense. He's like, "John Belushi was a lightweight." He goes, "John Belushi would drink three beers and he'd be drunk." He goes, he is the... Probably the first speed ball he ever took and he died from it. Like this whole thing about him-

Ian Carroll 2:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:02 ... being this raving, drug-fueled maniac was totally fabricated.

Ian Carroll 2:07 I just... It, like, it's a good example of how the mainstream narrative had Nixon as a, as a crook-

Joe Rogan 2:13 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 2:13 ... a- a- and he's just one of many examples, right? And-

Joe Rogan 2:16 Yes.

Ian Carroll 2:16 ... when you really start to look into it, you realize, I mean, probably not the greatest guy, but what was the real story there? What were they-

Joe Rogan 2:23 Right.

Ian Carroll 2:23 ... framing? Who are, why were they trying to get him out?

Joe Rogan 2:25 Yeah. No, this is not a defense of Nixon.

Ian Carroll 2:27 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 2:27 Nixon was not a great guy. But Tucker thinks that Nixon knew about, too much about the JFK assassination and wouldn't talk about it.

Ian Carroll 2:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:35 And he started saying, "I know who killed JFK."

Ian Carroll 2:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:38 And he started, he started yapping-

Ian Carroll 2:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:40 ... and they were like, "Let's get this motherfucker out of here."

Ian Carroll 2:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:42 And also one of the, uh, terms that he had agreed to to run for president was G- Gerald Ford, who was on the fucking Warren Commission.

Ian Carroll 2:50 Bingo.

Joe Rogan 2:51 Gerald Ford as his-

Ian Carroll 2:52 No.

Joe Rogan 2:52 ... VP.

Ian Carroll 2:53 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:53 So Gerald Ford becomes the first ever non-elected president. He slips in, he becomes president for kind of a bullshit term.

Ian Carroll 3:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 3:02 And-

Ian Carroll 3:02 Does a whole bunch of War Party things.

Joe Rogan 3:04 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 3:04 And just a whole bunch of bullshit.

Joe Rogan 3:05 And we decide that Nixon was the real problem with the country.

Ian Carroll 3:08 I mean, how often is it that they're allowing someone that they aren't sure about to get to president and they're b- putting, they're sticking them with a VP-

Joe Rogan 3:15 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 3:16 ... that is their guy, right?

Joe Rogan 3:17 Oh, yeah.

Ian Carroll 3:17 Like-

Joe Rogan 3:17 Dick Cheney.

Ian Carroll 3:18 ... L- LBJ with JFK.

Joe Rogan 3:20 Dick Cheney.

Ian Carroll 3:20 Dick Cheney.

Joe Rogan 3:21 D- t- everybody was-

Ian Carroll 3:22 Mike Pence, like...

Joe Rogan 3:23 ... the hidden secret that... Well, Pence was a, I don't think-

Ian Carroll 3:25 I don't know what the hell to think about Mike Pence.

Joe Rogan 3:26 Pence is, like, a preacher.

Ian Carroll 3:27 I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 3:27 I think he was good to get the fucking, the religious people on.

Ian Carroll 3:30 He's super RINO, super, like-

Joe Rogan 3:31 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 3:32 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:32 Weird guy.

Ian Carroll 3:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:33 Odd guy.

Ian Carroll 3:33 But I mean, Trump is a weird guy too. Like, who knows what's going on with Trump right now, so-

Joe Rogan 3:36 He's an animal.

Ian Carroll 3:37 Yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 3:37 He's the most fun ever.

Ian Carroll 3:39 I, I love Trump conspiracy theories-

Joe Rogan 3:41 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 3:41 ... because people get so riled up and it's so partisan and political, but within it, there's all this, like, juicy, like, meat for, for thinking about wha- it's like not even conspiracy theories, it's just like-

Joe Rogan 3:52 Right.

Ian Carroll 3:52 ... his history.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Right.

Ian Carroll 3:54 And especially with the Epstein stuff now and his history with Epstein, it just gets me so interested in... You'll, you'll never know the real story, but-

Joe Rogan 4:01 The, but here's the thing about-

Ian Carroll 4:02 ... but.

Joe Rogan 4:02 ... theories and stuff, there's so many things that are so weird that you would think, "Wait a minute, well, this can't be real. This is fake."

Ian Carroll 4:12 Yup.

Joe Rogan 4:12 And, and then it's connected to real life events in some sort of a way that you would think there's a conspiracy. Like here's the, one of my favorites is Little Baron Trumps-

Ian Carroll 4:22 Yeah, dude, I just got the book.

Joe Rogan 4:23 ... the fucking book.

Ian Carroll 4:23 It just came in the mail.

Joe Rogan 4:25 Insane.

Ian Carroll 4:25 Have you read it?

Joe Rogan 4:26 No.

Ian Carroll 4:26 Dude, I'm gonna read it.

Joe Rogan 4:27 I-

Ian Carroll 4:27 I just got it.

Joe Rogan 4:28 I should buy it.

Ian Carroll 4:28 That's dope.

Joe Rogan 4:28 I should buy the book before it gets bought out.

Ian Carroll 4:29 It's, it, I got it in a three-part series that has the, the Baron Trump one and then the last president and there's one other one.

Joe Rogan 4:35 And then how about the Wernher von Braun one about a guy named Elon that takes us to Mars? He wr- Wernher von Braun-

Ian Carroll 4:41 I haven't read that one yet.

Joe Rogan 4:41 ... the fucking Nazi who ran, you know-

Ian Carroll 4:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:44 ... Operation Paperclip and became the head of NASA.

Ian Carroll 4:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:47 That-

Ian Carroll 4:47 Super occultist kind of stuff in there, like-

Joe Rogan 4:49 Written, writes a novel about a guy named Elon that takes us to Mars, and even Elon saw that and he's like-

Ian Carroll 4:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:56 ... "Is this real?" Like, like you would think there's no way.

Ian Carroll 4:59 I mean, simultaneous to us kinda getting, like, some version of UAP disclosure that implies time travel-

Joe Rogan 5:05 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 5:05 ... which is like Lord knows what that is.

Joe Rogan 5:07 Right.

Ian Carroll 5:07 But it's just so fun to speculate-

Joe Rogan 5:10 Right.

Ian Carroll 5:10 ... because it's like how would we know?

Joe Rogan 5:12 Yeah. How would we know? And the, the whole UAP thing, boy, you wanna find a cauldron of bullshit-

Ian Carroll 5:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:19 ... that's the cauldron.

Ian Carroll 5:20 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:20 Do you know who's got the best take on it? Is Jacques Vallée. I'm in the middle of-

Ian Carroll 5:26 I've not seen a lot of his stuff.

Joe Rogan 5:27 ... my third book of his right now and it's, uh, I'll tell you what it's called. He's got-

Ian Carroll 5:31 Yeah, I should read some.

Joe Rogan 5:33 I- he's the best. I mean-

Ian Carroll 5:35 Why, why do you say he's the best? Like what's your qualifier then?

Joe Rogan 5:38 He, because he's, uh, this, I'm on, uh, this one, Confrontations-

Ian Carroll 5:40 Word.

Joe Rogan 5:40 ... which is one of a three-part series of, uh, human interactions that have been documented with some sort of, uh, an in- an invader from some other dimension or planet or whatever the fuck it is. He...... is the most rational. He's the most analytical. He's the least likely to buy into horse shit, but not dismissive-

Ian Carroll 6:02 That's like the critical balance, right?

Joe Rogan 6:04 ... of strange since... Yes. Well, he's the guy that they modeled the French scientist in Close Encounters of the Third Kind after.

Ian Carroll 6:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:10 So, he's been in this game since the '60s-

Ian Carroll 6:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:13 ... investigating these things.

Ian Carroll 6:14 And time in the game counts for a ton. It counts for so-

Joe Rogan 6:17 Oh, yeah.

Ian Carroll 6:18 ... m- and that's my greatest weakness in a lot of ways, among several, is that I'm just really new to the game. And so, I'm constantly, like, catching up on shit, and as stuff breaks-

Joe Rogan 6:25 Right.

Ian Carroll 6:26 ... like, like Pam Bondi, for example, I have no history on who Pam Bondi is, because I wasn't paying attention when Pam Bondi was in Florida. And so, I'm having to, like, play catch-up on what was going on.

Joe Rogan 6:36 Right.

Ian Carroll 6:36 And the people that have been here for forever, like the Alex Joneses of this world, the Jacques Vallées, the people that, like, watch things break live, you just get a different level of context. And then you get, like, the David Ikes that are like, "It's fucking reptiles, dude."

Joe Rogan 6:50 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 6:50 "They're all reptiles." David, have you seen David Ike coming after me on Twitter recently?

Joe Rogan 6:54 He came after you, me too-

Ian Carroll 6:55 Dude, it's so good. I love him.

Joe Rogan 6:56 ... 'cause I, I make fun of the reptile thing. And he's like, "Why won't you have me on?"

Ian Carroll 7:00 I genuinely really appreciate it.

Joe Rogan 7:02 "Why won't..."

Ian Carroll 7:02 It's, like, a good time.

Joe Rogan 7:03 But he's d-

Ian Carroll 7:03 And it's, like, maybe there are reptiles.

Joe Rogan 7:04 I think-

Ian Carroll 7:05 I don't know, man.

Joe Rogan 7:05 ... he went too far in time where there was no internet.

Ian Carroll 7:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:08 You know, he went too far.

Ian Carroll 7:09 It's, you get too certain of yourself, right? You think you have the answers-

Joe Rogan 7:13 It's a l-

Ian Carroll 7:13 ... and you just keep going.

Joe Rogan 7:14 ... a little bit of a grift-

Ian Carroll 7:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:15 ... with some of these folks.

Ian Carroll 7:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 I'm not saying necessarily him, but it's a little bit of a grift.

Ian Carroll 7:19 Yeah. Well, it's, it's an easy temptation to fall into, especially-

Joe Rogan 7:22 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 7:22 ... with the internet. Like, every single day, people in my position, I mean, people in your position too, like, we have the ability to just, like, "I'm gonna get views and money if I drop deep down this grift."

Joe Rogan 7:32 Yes.

Ian Carroll 7:32 But a lot of them are not, like, a lot of them, when you look into them, you realize, "Oh, there's, like, literally nothing there."

Joe Rogan 7:37 R- there's a bunch of stuff that's clickbait horse shit, for sure.

Ian Carroll 7:40 Yeah, or at least-

Joe Rogan 7:40 And-

Ian Carroll 7:41 ... there's probably nothing there, right?

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Ian Carroll 9:27 The one that I just recently kind of was reminded of is, you know the, the story that they, that, uh, Disney sent kids to Epstein Island?

Joe Rogan 9:34 Yeah, I did hear that.

Ian Carroll 9:36 That's, like, a perfect, like, "Oh, it's not."

Joe Rogan 9:36 But it's not.

Ian Carroll 9:36 Such a money conspiracy theory.

Joe Rogan 9:38 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 9:38 It's not true.

Joe Rogan 9:39 That's not true.

Ian Carroll 9:39 It's when you look it up, you realize that, that, I mean, a lot of the information is kinda gone. It's hard to even tell if it's legitimate websites and information, which is already a red flag. But the ones that are still up, they just sent them into, like, the ocea- like, they were going on cruises that happened to be in the vicinity of the island.

Joe Rogan 9:54 Right.

Ian Carroll 9:54 That's totally different than sending kids to the island.

Joe Rogan 9:55 Which is a very popular vacation destination.

Ian Carroll 9:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 9:58 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 9:58 And so, it's, uh, it becomes this, like... And, and that's kind of the, I think that's the fun part of the game.

Joe Rogan 10:02 We, we thought about buying the island.

Ian Carroll 10:03 Dude.

Joe Rogan 10:05 (laughs) When the island was for sale, we talked about it for a second. We were like, "Let's put some of that Spotify money-"

Ian Carroll 10:09 Why not?

Joe Rogan 10:10 "... money to use. That would be funny."

Ian Carroll 10:11 I think they would've stopped you.

Joe Rogan 10:13 But it's just too evil. Oh, yeah.

Ian Carroll 10:13 Dude, I think someone would have stopped you.

Joe Rogan 10:15 100%.

Ian Carroll 10:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:16 Me?

Ian Carroll 10:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:17 I can't shut the fuck up.

Ian Carroll 10:18 'Cause there's shit underneath that island-

Joe Rogan 10:19 No doubt.

Ian Carroll 10:19 ... for sure, dude.

Joe Rogan 10:20 There's gotta be something on that island that's incriminating.

Ian Carroll 10:22 Yeah, that temple.

Joe Rogan 10:22 And also, what's in the walls?

Ian Carroll 10:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:25 What's in the walls of the buildings? Like, I would get into the wiring. I'd bring in pros.

Ian Carroll 10:30 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:30 I'd be like, "Tell me what the fuck's going on."

Ian Carroll 10:32 What's under the dirt.

Joe Rogan 10:33 I'd scan the fucking floors. I would... Yeah.

Ian Carroll 10:35 Yeah. LiDAR the ocean floor and the surrounding miles.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Also, he's dead, so if he ever fucking hid some shit in there, no one knows where it is.

Ian Carroll 10:42 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:43 They prob-

Ian Carroll 10:43 Well, he's probably dead.

Joe Rogan 10:43 They're gonna raise that building.

Ian Carroll 10:45 I assume he's dead.

Joe Rogan 10:46 But he-

Ian Carroll 10:46 But there was so much, like, so much shit around it-

Joe Rogan 10:49 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 10:49 ... that, like, I don't feel 100% sure. I feel like 95% sure that he's dead, 98% sure that he's dead.

Joe Rogan 10:54 Right, I wouldn't go 100% either, right?

Ian Carroll 10:56 Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? It's like, there's very few things I feel 100% sure about.

Joe Rogan 10:58 But they did do an autopsy. You'd have to kill the-

Ian Carroll 11:00 But they did an autopsy on JFK too, and it was not his body.

Joe Rogan 11:03 Well-

Ian Carroll 11:04 Probably.

Joe Rogan 11:04 ... sort of. They did two autopsies.

Ian Carroll 11:06 Right?

Joe Rogan 11:07 They, they, well, they did, uh, th- the initial examination of the body-

Ian Carroll 11:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:11 ... was in Dallas, and then they flew it to Bethesda.

Ian Carroll 11:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:14 The thing about that is, and this is, uh, part of David Lifton's book, Best Evidence, which b- made, made me become a conspiracy theorist.

Ian Carroll 11:23 Mm-hmm. I've never read it.

Joe Rogan 11:24 It's fucking great. And, uh, David Lifton, who was an accountant, they gave him, uh, I forget what the project was, but it was something to do with the Warren Commission report. So, this guy's, like, a serious bookworm. He read the entire Warren Commission-

Ian Carroll 11:39 He did.

Joe Rogan 11:39 ... which fucking nobody does.

Ian Carroll 11:40 Yep.

Joe Rogan 11:41 And it's, like, m- 9,000 pages or something like that.

Ian Carroll 11:42 That's a superpower-

Joe Rogan 11:43 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 11:43 ... being able to read like that.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Exactly, and find contradictions over and over-

Ian Carroll 11:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:47 ... and over again. He's like, "This is horse shit. This whole thing's horse shit."

Ian Carroll 11:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:50 And then he found out that Kennedy's brain was missing when it got all the way to-

Ian Carroll 11:54 Yep.

Joe Rogan 11:55 ... Bethesda. He found out that the Dallas doctors said that the neck wound was an entry wound, and then the ones in Bethesda-

Ian Carroll 12:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:03 ... turned it in a tracheotomy hole. It was a bullet hole. He got shot.

Ian Carroll 12:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:06 You could see him go like that.

Ian Carroll 12:08 Garbage all over the place. And then-

Joe Rogan 12:09 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 12:09 ... you could also see his h- face get blown off, and they published photos of him from the official autopsy where his face was visible.

Joe Rogan 12:15 I have a theory, and this is just mine.

Ian Carroll 12:17 Yeah, I'm really curious to hear yours.

Joe Rogan 12:18 And I'm, I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think he got shot in the head at the same time from two different directions.

Ian Carroll 12:23 That's a good theory, honestly.

Joe Rogan 12:24 Because there's a bit of s- spray that goes forward which is not...... gen- like, things are weird when you hit them-

Ian Carroll 12:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:32 ... with bullets. Like, people have shot people in the head and the bullets come out their eye.

Ian Carroll 12:36 Yeah. Like, right around back of the skull.

Joe Rogan 12:37 Like, it ricochets around, like a .22 or something like that.

Ian Carroll 12:40 Yep.

Joe Rogan 12:40 But weird things happen when you shoot things. But some things are super consistent. And one thing that's super consistent is when you hit something, it goes in the direction-

Ian Carroll 12:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:49 ... that you hit it, right? So, back and to the left. Hick- Hicks used to talk about that all the time.

Ian Carroll 12:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:54 Back and to the left.

Ian Carroll 12:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:55 When making fun of the-

Ian Carroll 12:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:56 ... fact that the Zapruder film sh-

Ian Carroll 12:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:58 ... clearly showed that it wasn't a shot from the back. But if the head goes spray, too. It goes spray like this, back and to the left. Can we see it? Let's see it real quick.

Ian Carroll 13:07 Yeah, something I love about the JFK th- story is that there are so many deep experts that have really done the dig, and they don't all come to the same conclusions.

Joe Rogan 13:15 Well, here's the thing about Lifton's book. He also documents how many witnesses were murdered. And it's astounding.

Ian Carroll 13:20 That's the- that's the part that often gets left off, too.

Joe Rogan 13:23 All these witnesses, their cars got parked on railroad tracks and they died-

Ian Carroll 13:26 Weird.

Joe Rogan 13:26 ... of heart attacks when they were 30 and they got fucking shot in a robbery-

Ian Carroll 13:30 Funny coincidences.

Joe Rogan 13:30 ... and they committed suicide. They're gassed. They fell asleep in their car.

Ian Carroll 13:34 Man, Hillary Clinton sure got started early.

Joe Rogan 13:35 Yeah. (laughs) I think they ... Back and to the left. Watch this. Watch this, the explosion.

Ian Carroll 13:44 Yeah, 'cause he's already hit in the neck. You're totally right.

Joe Rogan 13:47 See? See?

Ian Carroll 13:47 It's like a cloud in the front, right?

Joe Rogan 13:49 Right? I mean, it could be that the top of his head exploded right there and the force drives him back. It also could ... There is- there's another possibility and the- the possibility is spontaneous, uh, nerve reaction of your body shutting down-

Ian Carroll 14:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:08 ... which could cause you to go back and to the left even if you get shot in the front.

Ian Carroll 14:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:12 But the thing is, the- the spray ... The spr- or if you get shot in the back, rather. The spray looks like it's going forward. Like watch, we'll watch when he gets hit. See that?

Ian Carroll 14:24 Yup. It's just weird.

Joe Rogan 14:26 But that could be ... But the thing is, there's not a bullet hole in the other side. So that could be just a opening of the head and it's an explosion of blood that comes out.

Ian Carroll 14:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:37 Also, you have to realize, he's probably bleeding internally already. He got shot in the neck.

Ian Carroll 14:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:43 So he gets shot here, there's probably blood spraying all over the place inside of his head. And then boom, he gets shot in the front of his head. But his head clearly goes back and to the left.

Ian Carroll 14:52 Yep.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Like almost instantaneously.

Ian Carroll 14:55 I mean-

Joe Rogan 14:55 In- in a way that you would imagine if you got, if someone got hit like that. Watch this again. Boom, he gets hit.

Ian Carroll 15:03 Ooh, good catch on that frame.

Joe Rogan 15:05 And then back.

Ian Carroll 15:05 And it's all gone, like his face is just clearly open right there.

Joe Rogan 15:08 Uh, he's gone. Gone. Right.

Ian Carroll 15:09 And it's clearly not a shot from behind. I mean, like ...

Joe Rogan 15:12 It's definitely not a, it's definitely not a shot from behind because there's no entry wound at the back of his head.

Ian Carroll 15:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:16 And if you're saying that that thing hit the front of his head or the side of his head from behind like that, mm ...

Ian Carroll 15:23 I- I feel like if there was a conspiracy theorist training course, the JFK assassination would be like the perfect like, dry run training course to like build it around because you have all the pieces. You have like, you have a complex conspiracy with unknown actors from intelligence agencies and organized crime and maybe multiple governments. It's like, and we don't know all that. Then you have a complex coverup that evolved over time. You have like researchers, you have, uh, bad information being fed in from outside.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 15:50 You have conspiracy theorists that are taking it in directions that are un- un- like, corroborable.

Joe Rogan 15:54 Right.

Ian Carroll 15:54 It's got all the things that you need to both learn how to dig into and learn how to watch out for. It's a lot of fun.

Joe Rogan 15:59 Well, and also, people didn't really get serious about it until about 12 years after the assassination.

Ian Carroll 16:05 Yep, yep.

Joe Rogan 16:05 So when Geraldo Rivera has Dick Gregory on his show... Oh, what is this?

Narrator 16:09 It's on a re- it's restored in some way.

Joe Rogan 16:11 Ooh.

Ian Carroll 16:11 Whoa. Have you guys ever heard the theory that frames were taken out of the Zapruder film-

Joe Rogan 16:15 Yeah. Ooh, that one's crazy.

Ian Carroll 16:16 ... to make it look like the car never slowed down?

Joe Rogan 16:18 That's crazy.

Ian Carroll 16:20 That's bizarre. The thing is, I don't know how to trust things like AI reconstructions of videos.

Joe Rogan 16:26 Let's just trust it, bro. It's fine.

Ian Carroll 16:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:28 Boom! Oh my goodness. That is so crazy.

Ian Carroll 16:30 Dude, poor Jackie, man. So the-

Joe Rogan 16:34 Oh my God, that's so crazy.

Ian Carroll 16:35 The theory about the driver shooting him? That's the one I've never bought, honestly.

Joe Rogan 16:40 No, no. That's, that's hard, stupid.

Ian Carroll 16:40 People always say the driver turned around and shot him. It's like, no.

Joe Rogan 16:42 I think that's one of those theories that probably the government created.

Ian Carroll 16:46 Yeah. There's an open piece of evidence-

Joe Rogan 16:49 That's one of those theories to make people look stupid.

Ian Carroll 16:50 There's an open piece of evidence of some kids that showed up covered in mud at a, at a car shop that they worked at, that it was like a dry day, they showed up covered in mud. And uh, this, there's a certain guy that theorized that they were hiding in a manhole and shot up at him out of the manhole, and that they, the car slows down in real, in real life and that witnesses saw the car slow down and that there's dropped frames from the Zapruder film. And it's like, these are these kind of theories where it's like, it's like how do you dig into that and like prove that? And the answer is you have to get to primary sources. You have to get to like, is there a police report for that kid showing up? Like, is there, is that location real? Like can you corroborate any of this?

Joe Rogan 17:27 Right.

Ian Carroll 17:27 And the unfortunate truth is, you could if you could fucking see the files that our government was hiding from us.

Joe Rogan 17:33 Right. Well-

Ian Carroll 17:34 Theoretically, anyways.

Joe Rogan 17:35 W- they're supposed to be released soon, Ian.

Ian Carroll 17:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:37 Have some patience.

Ian Carroll 17:38 Dude, they're releasing tomorrow, Joe.

Joe Rogan 17:39 Can you ... Is that real?

Ian Carroll 17:40 No.

Joe Rogan 17:41 Um, can you ...

Ian Carroll 17:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:43 It's like every day is Christmas.

Ian Carroll 17:44 Yeah, for real.

Joe Rogan 17:45 Can you Google "David Lifton witnesses of the JFK assassination odds"? Because he did some sort of a calculation of the odds of all these people dying the way they died.

Ian Carroll 18:03 Yeah, dude.

Joe Rogan 18:03 And it's cra- it's millions to one.

Ian Carroll 18:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 18:06 It's nuts. So I think-

Ian Carroll 18:07 That's a big part of what I do is, is it, how likely is it that this is a coincidence? Is it even possible?

Joe Rogan 18:12 Right.

Ian Carroll 18:12 Right?

Joe Rogan 18:13 It, that one's very unlikely. Which means they were killing witnesses. Someone was killing witnesses. I think there was people shooting from the back and the front.

Ian Carroll 18:21 Oh yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:21 I think Lee Harvey Oswald... People wanna say it's one or zero. I think Lee Harvey Oswald was in on it. I think Lee Harvey Oswald probably didn't shoot the president, though.... uh, but he might have. He might have hit him in the back because there was a shot in the back too. You know, the whole reason why they had to call this a tracheotomy is the same reason why they had to come up with the single-bullet theory.

Ian Carroll 18:39 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 18:40 Yeah, so you're deep on this.

Ian Carroll 18:41 So you gotta explain it-

Joe Rogan 18:41 You know that.

Ian Carroll 18:41 Well, I'm not... I'm, I'm as deep as-

Joe Rogan 18:43 You know about the ricochet underneath the overpass?

Ian Carroll 18:45 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:46 Yeah. So-

Ian Carroll 18:46 Yeah, like, I'm deep enough to know the basics, but there's so many layers and you have to read the books, you have to watch the films, you have to, like see the interviews.

Joe Rogan 18:54 You gotta talk to Oliver Stone.

Ian Carroll 18:54 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 18:55 Oliver Stone just goes off.

Ian Carroll 18:56 And that's why I was curious to hear your takes, because you've actually talked to these people.

Joe Rogan 18:59 Oliver Stone's the best, because he's been studying this for fucking ever.

Ian Carroll 19:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:04 And he can tell you exactly what's going on with Dulles and with-

Ian Carroll 19:08 And he's not just been studying it forever-

Joe Rogan 19:09 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 19:09 ... he's been studying the actual primary source documents themselves.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 19:12 And like reading the real archives that are released.

Joe Rogan 19:14 And then there's a wild connection between Jolly West and Jack Ruby.

Ian Carroll 19:19 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:21 But-

Ian Carroll 19:21 Jolly West is crazy. Have you read Chaos yet?

Joe Rogan 19:23 Yes.

Ian Carroll 19:24 Dude.

Joe Rogan 19:25 So I had Tom O'Neil on the podcast.

Ian Carroll 19:26 I didn't know about Jolly until I read Chaos.

Joe Rogan 19:28 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 19:28 And then I started digging in... 'cause I knew about MKUltra. I'm like, I've been learning about MKUltra when I was a kid, like doing psychedelics. But I didn't really understand anything about that history or anything around the CIA back then.

Joe Rogan 19:39 They ran the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.

Ian Carroll 19:41 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:42 And they closed it down after Chaos came out.

Ian Carroll 19:45 No way.

Joe Rogan 19:46 Yes way.

Ian Carroll 19:47 So just recently, huh?

Joe Rogan 19:48 The entire time they had been running-

Ian Carroll 19:52 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:52 ... this clinic. It's not like they were running the clinic and they said, "You know what, let's not run the clinic anymore."

Ian Carroll 19:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:56 "Let's just give it to regular doctors."

Ian Carroll 19:56 '70s are over, like whatever.

Joe Rogan 19:58 It's over. The peace and war bullshit or peace and love bullshit, that's over.

Ian Carroll 20:01 Yeah, one of the conspiracy theories- ... that comes out this week.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Yes. It's coming out this week. Yeah.

Ian Carroll 20:05 Really? This week?

Joe Rogan 20:06 Yes. Tom O'Neil-

Ian Carroll 20:07 Finally.

Joe Rogan 20:08 ... is my friend Greg's, uh, longtime friend and former neigh- b- well, I think they're still neighbors, but they were neighbors in New York and then they were neighbors in, in California.

Ian Carroll 20:17 That's a pretty cool neighbor.

Joe Rogan 20:18 This guy been... Yeah, very cool neighbor. But this guy's been working on this one fucking story-

Ian Carroll 20:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:22 ... for 20 years. You imagine just like-

Ian Carroll 20:25 I don't understand people like that.

Joe Rogan 20:26 ... pulling your hair out, just going crazy for 20 years?

Ian Carroll 20:28 No, I'm a generalist and I, I rely on people like that because I could never stay with something-

Joe Rogan 20:32 Right.

Ian Carroll 20:32 ... for that long.

Joe Rogan 20:33 No, he, he could have wroten- written many other books-

Ian Carroll 20:36 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:37 ... on the exact same subject.

Ian Carroll 20:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:38 He can keep going, like part two, more I know-

Ian Carroll 20:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:40 Part three, more I know.

Ian Carroll 20:41 He could have written a book about each of those, like each of those sketchy dudes that he had questions about.

Joe Rogan 20:45 Right.

Ian Carroll 20:45 Like each of those CIA guys, each of those weird doctors.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Well, each of those times-

Ian Carroll 20:49 There's whole rabbit holes.

Joe Rogan 20:50 How about each time that Manson got away with like committing crimes?

Ian Carroll 20:53 Oh, yeah. And the girls too.

Joe Rogan 20:54 And they just... Yeah, and they're like, "Oh, it's above our pay grade."

Ian Carroll 20:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:56 So they were paying people to do this. They were giving the Manson family LSD and money. They were allowing them to commit crimes and the whole idea was just to change the idea what people thought of as hippies.

Ian Carroll 21:10 Well-

Joe Rogan 21:10 And to stop the anti-war movement.

Ian Carroll 21:12 Do-

Joe Rogan 21:12 And also to see what they can get away, we can- they could do with this acid.

Ian Carroll 21:15 I suspect there... I mean, t- to me the big question is, that seems like the first like d- like, for sure that's going on, right?

Joe Rogan 21:20 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 21:21 Is to co-opt the hippie m- I mean, first, the hippie movement probably was to co-opt the anti-war movement. There was pretty buttoned up.

Joe Rogan 21:26 Yes.

Ian Carroll 21:26 Like I suspect that LSD did not just escape the lab. I suspect they were like, "Quick, turn all these kids into crazy hippies." Like, "Try this out, try this out, try this out."

Joe Rogan 21:35 Really?

Ian Carroll 21:36 'Cause... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:36 Why do you think that?

Ian Carroll 21:36 So check this out. Have you read, um, Strange Scenes Inside Laurel Canyon?

Joe Rogan 21:40 I started to read it, I have not finished it.

Ian Carroll 21:42 It's... So y- I mean, even if it's the first chapter-

Joe Rogan 21:44 But it's nuts.

Ian Carroll 21:44 Right? So if you take that book's premise, it's basically that before the hippie movement, there was a very powerful organized anti-war movement led by a bunch of Quakers, a bunch of Black activists, a bunch of... Like, my dad was one of them. And it was not this hippie fringe thing. It was a very powerful anti-Vietnam protest. And the moment that LSD gets introduced, it becomes all peace and love. And he points out in that book how all of these pe- like Frank Zappa, like m- lead members of The Doors, people who organized the Monterey Pop Festival over and over and over, like he probably has two to three dozen examples specifically he goes deep into. They all just happened to move from wherever they are all over the world into this area in LA that is not a hotbed for music. And they all just start making music about peace and love and doing LSD. And all of them have parents that are from Special Forces, intelligence operations, Pentagon. Like some of the, some of the musicians themselves have backgrounds that look exactly like CIA operatives that were doing like revolutions in Cuba and overseas.

Joe Rogan 22:43 Like who in specific? That's-

Ian Carroll 22:44 Um, like the, uh, lead singer of the B- of The Doors, uh, Jim Morrison, for example.

Joe Rogan 22:49 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 22:49 Frank Zappa for... So Frank Zappa is one where his dad and his mom were both... Frank Zappa's dad worked at, uh, the base that i- that was like the chemical weapons, like where they did their chemical weapons research. His dad was a chemical weapons specialist in a- with like top secret clearances. Which is basically like when you read about what his dad was, it sounds a lot like what MKUltra would be. It sounds a lot like what you would... Like drug, they're drug experiments. And-

Joe Rogan 23:16 Chemical weapons is drug experiments? It's not-

Ian Carroll 23:17 Well, chemical, chemical is the wrong word. Um, psychological operations. Um, but it's right there, like it's on his Wikipedia page. It's not hard to find these things. What, what that guy did that I've forgotten who wrote the book, but what he did was not like find uncover- evidence that had never been uncovered. He just looked at all these different people whose histories were very public. But he put it all together and realized like that's a lot of people that all moved to this one place and all started producing music that was like all within this one thing. Like Jim Morrison, his dad was the lead commander of the boat that was in the Gulf of Tonkin that started the Vietnam War. That's like kind of a weird coincidence.

Joe Rogan 23:57 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 23:58 And you could definitely make the explanation that kids often rebel against their parents, right?

Joe Rogan 24:02 Right. Right.

Ian Carroll 24:03 Kids often step out of line and are like, like, "Fuck the old way."

Joe Rogan 24:06 Right, right.

Ian Carroll 24:06 But a lot of them were ex-military.

Joe Rogan 24:10 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 24:10 Like directly ex-suits and ex-CIA. They-

Joe Rogan 24:12 Was, was Morrison an ex-military guy?

Ian Carroll 24:15 No. Morrison, I don't believe he was.

Joe Rogan 24:16 Why, why do you think that he looks like a CIA operative then?

Ian Carroll 24:19 No, no, not Morrison. It's the... I was saying Frank Zappa. It's, uh...

Joe Rogan 24:22 But you said lead singer of The Doors too.

Ian Carroll 24:24 No, that was just me giving examples. The guy specifically that he said that had the history that was, um, that looked... He was doing, uh, what looked like color revolutions in Cuba. Um, because I'm not super familiar with the music of that time, I might forget what band he was in. It might have been The Mamas & The Papas.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Okay.

Ian Carroll 24:41 There was a couple of guys in The Mamas & Papas that he did deep dives in.

Joe Rogan 24:44 (laughs) But here's the question. You can't...You can't, like, fake talent. You know what I'm saying? Like, you, you can't-

Ian Carroll 24:53 Well, a lot of them didn't write their own songs.

Joe Rogan 24:55 Yeah, but-

Ian Carroll 24:55 And, uh, I mean, like, you can't fake talent.

Joe Rogan 24:57 Jim Morrison was fucking good.

Ian Carroll 24:57 Look at Diddy, bro. Oh, no. Jim, yeah, some of them were great.

Joe Rogan 25:01 Jim Morrison was fucking good.

Ian Carroll 25:01 Some of them were great and Frank Zappa, crazy great.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Frank Zappa was great. But this is the thing.

Ian Carroll 25:05 100%.

Joe Rogan 25:05 It's like you can't, like-

Ian Carroll 25:07 100%.

Joe Rogan 25:08 I, I don't think... But here's the thing. They could push people with talent that they also could use to further their agenda.

Ian Carroll 25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:16 And make those people more popular than they would be organically.

Ian Carroll 25:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:19 And put a lot of emphasis behind it. Look, and the reason why this, this tracks is because what Nixon did. So, with, with the Sweeping Psychedelic Act of 1970-

Ian Carroll 25:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 ... they passed this, they made mushrooms and all these different things illegal so that they could go after the civil rights activists-

Ian Carroll 25:38 Yep.

Joe Rogan 25:38 ... and the anti-war activists.

Ian Carroll 25:40 Yep, and they shut them all down.

Joe Rogan 25:40 And the Black Panthers. They shut them all down. Go after them for having these things that were societal disruptors.

Ian Carroll 25:47 It also makes fertile ground for COINTELPRO. When you have things like drugs-

Joe Rogan 25:51 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 25:51 ... and drug culture, like fertile ground for COINTELPRO.

Joe Rogan 25:54 Well, this is the big thing about Jolly West and Manson, is that Jolly West allegedly taught Manson how to-

Ian Carroll 26:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:00 ... use psychedelics and manipulate people. And oftentimes when Manson was with The Family, apparently, he pretended to take LSD. And they all took it.

Ian Carroll 26:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:10 And then he would manipulate them.

Ian Carroll 26:11 And then he did, like, hypnotism.

Joe Rogan 26:12 Yes.

Ian Carroll 26:12 And, like, weird speeches and, like-

Joe Rogan 26:14 Yes.

Ian Carroll 26:15 It really does look like... And the thing is that I respect Tom O'Neill so much 'cause he didn't try to claim things he couldn't prove.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Right.

Ian Carroll 26:21 But he just put it all out there and was like, "This is what I'm seeing and say, think what you think." And it looks to me like, like you're saying, that Manson was either directly trained to practice these things and carry them out, or he was sort of like a patsy in the operation, that they kind of, like, gave him the, the setting within which to just go along his megalomaniacal impulses and just kind of kept tabs on him and kept him safe and just kept him going.

Joe Rogan 26:44 Mm.

Ian Carroll 26:44 I think it's, I think he wasn't a part of it.

Joe Rogan 26:47 I think he was a part of it.

Ian Carroll 26:47 Because of how effective he was, like, he got-

Joe Rogan 26:48 They visited him in prison.

Ian Carroll 26:50 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:50 This is why I think he's a part of it. I think they recognized in prison, like, "Look, you got two choices. You could be in jail for the rest of your fucking life or we can work for you. We think you're brilliant."

Ian Carroll 27:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:00 "We think you're an amazing mind of untapped talent." And, you know, you pre- you prey to this narcissist ego-

Ian Carroll 27:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:06 ... and you start telling him things, and the next thing you know, he's out there in the street working for you like a little hoe. (laughs)

Ian Carroll 27:11 Yep. It's crazy how many people that wind up in these weird positions came out of, like, you were in prison, then you got released.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Right, right, right.

Ian Carroll 27:17 Or you were in, like, trouble and then you got... And the girls, like, the girls... It's crazy. Those girls, like, some of them had committed some minor crimes, but a lot of them were just regular people.

Joe Rogan 27:25 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 27:25 And then suddenly they become, like, absolute d- like, murderers, like dark, dark murders.

Joe Rogan 27:31 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 27:31 Those were gross.

Joe Rogan 27:32 Well, I think mind control is real. Right?

Ian Carroll 27:35 100%.

Joe Rogan 27:35 And I think, I think hypnosis is real, acid is real. And then the techniques that they've developed over decades of fucking with people with these drugs-

Ian Carroll 27:44 Yup.

Joe Rogan 27:44 ... they know what to do.

Ian Carroll 27:46 Yeah. I mean, the dark thing that... I mean, we don't need to go into it because it's real dark. But the... I think that when you study the MKUltra files, and this is where there's a lot of conspiracy theories that are hard to prove, there's a bunch of witness victim testimony but it's hard to prove, is the Monarch programs are an alleged program that never got disclosed. And that's all the programs that are hidden behind child sexual abuse being a part of mind control. Because a lot of the drugs, like, they can break people's minds and they can be involved in mind control. But a lot of those papers talk about dissociative identities- identity disorder as like the Holy Grail of that Manchurian Candidate concept. And it makes a lot of sense if you know what dis- how dissociative identity disorder works.

Joe Rogan 28:23 Right.

Ian Carroll 28:24 And that is most commonly associated with dark, grim childhood sexual abuse.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Mm.

Ian Carroll 28:28 And then you get all these victim testimonies, hundreds and hundreds of people these days talking about how they are- were a part of these programs. Like, people that were on Epstein Island that claim to have been victimized as children and, and put, subjected to mind control experiments paired with childhood sexual abuse.

Joe Rogan 28:45 It's just so hard to believe that people are that evil, but they have been-

Ian Carroll 28:49 They are.

Joe Rogan 28:49 ... throughout history.

Ian Carroll 28:50 They are.

Joe Rogan 28:50 This is why it's weird. It's like we'll look back on the Victorian era-

Ian Carroll 28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Or we'll look back on the, the, you know, the, the man boy love of the, you know-

Ian Carroll 28:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:59 ... Socrates era and we'll go, "That's just back then. Back then."

Ian Carroll 29:02 We've evolved now.

Joe Rogan 29:03 We, we don't do that anymore. Yeah.

Ian Carroll 29:05 We're more cultured. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:05 But when the, when they've identified specific aspects of traumatic past that they can use these particular victims-

Ian Carroll 29:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:15 ... of trauma, of childhood trauma, and take them and turn them into weapons.

Ian Carroll 29:19 Yup.

Joe Rogan 29:20 That's so wild.

Ian Carroll 29:22 Yeah, and there's-

Joe Rogan 29:22 But, but that's... That is an asset, right? If you got someone-

Ian Carroll 29:25 100%.

Joe Rogan 29:25 ... who's so fucking crazy you could talk to them and get them to do things and give them acid and get them to Sirhan Sirhan levels-

Ian Carroll 29:33 Yeah, yeah.

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Ian Carroll 31:03 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 31:04 You can get people to do things.

Ian Carroll 31:05 ... break Jack Ruby's mind in an instant, like-

Joe Rogan 31:07 In jail, yeah.

Ian Carroll 31:08 And- and the craziest thing is that we've been living in a world where for- for all of our history until the internet, and really until recent internet history, they could do those things and just not have anyone report on it.

Joe Rogan 31:18 Exactly.

Ian Carroll 31:18 And so no one would ever even know, and I think that there's this feeling that the world is so dark right now because we're learning everything.

Joe Rogan 31:25 Exactly.

Ian Carroll 31:25 And I actually take the opposite view. I think that we're- the light is being shown, and the world is super dark. There's all kinds of crazy, horrible people, but there's all kinds of crazy good people, everything in between.

Joe Rogan 31:34 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 31:35 And by- you have to shine the light on it all before you can fix it. Um, right?

Joe Rogan 31:38 Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's one of the more fascinating things about the fact that this is a weird time for uncovering federal corruption, right?

Ian Carroll 31:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:49 And I think they're in real trouble because I don't think they can use their phones. I don't think they can do the things that they used to be able to do.

Ian Carroll 31:57 That's a good point.

Joe Rogan 31:58 And I don't think they're united.

Ian Carroll 31:59 I hadn't thought about that.

Joe Rogan 32:00 This is what I- I think-

Ian Carroll 32:00 They're definitely not united.

Joe Rogan 32:01 Right, so-

Ian Carroll 32:02 100%

Joe Rogan 32:03 ... there's rats in that ship.

Ian Carroll 32:04 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:04 There's rats in that ship.

Ian Carroll 32:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:05 And wha- and, uh, I think everybody's scared and so everybody's worried that people are wearing camera buttons and-

Ian Carroll 32:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:11 ... and y- so-

Ian Carroll 32:12 It is the era of secret cameras too.

Joe Rogan 32:13 And they're all selfish fucks, so they're all-

Ian Carroll 32:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:15 ... out for themselves, so they probably demonstrated that all throughout these relationships they've had with other people, so nobody trusts anybody.

Ian Carroll 32:21 Yep.

Joe Rogan 32:22 And-

Ian Carroll 32:22 I mean, that's the nature of politics.

Joe Rogan 32:23 And you can't use your phone.

Ian Carroll 32:24 Nope.

Joe Rogan 32:25 You can't use your email. You can't, you- you probably can't even talk with Alexa in the house.

Ian Carroll 32:30 Oh, no.

Joe Rogan 32:30 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 32:30 No, no, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 32:32 You can't, yeah.

Ian Carroll 32:32 I mean, I'm at the point where I'm starting to get, like, I'm not literally that paranoid, but there are, I've had some conversations in terms of, like, people that wanna leak a story.

Joe Rogan 32:38 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 32:39 Which I totally, I normally just avoid 'cause I don't wanna touch it, but every now and then I'm like, "Let's go on a walk 'cause I don't wanna hear what you have to say around any of this shit."

Joe Rogan 32:46 Exactly.

Ian Carroll 32:46 'Cause I know it's being recorded, I know-

Joe Rogan 32:47 100%.

Ian Carroll 32:48 ... it can be listened to.

Joe Rogan 32:48 Do you have a crazy phone or you use your regular phone?

Ian Carroll 32:50 No, it's just an iPhone, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:51 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 32:51 I- I'm aspiring to get one of those, like-

Joe Rogan 32:53 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 32:53 ... one of the Erik Prince phones or something like that, but like-

Joe Rogan 32:54 That's when you've reached the next level-

Ian Carroll 32:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:57 ... of conspiracy, when you get a de-Googled phone-

Ian Carroll 32:59 Yeah, and I don't-

Joe Rogan 33:00 ... that doesn't have 5G, you only use 4. (laughs)

Ian Carroll 33:02 Yeah, but the way I look at it is, so I intentionally do all of my stuff, I basically do open source j- investigations. I don't try to, like, break news stories-

Joe Rogan 33:11 Right.

Ian Carroll 33:11 ... because it's way safer and it's way more interesting. And I don't, my goal is not to, like, to like, know everything or to be some great journalist. My goal is to inspire everybody el- like to inspire the world to think a little more and to be more critical and to look it up for yourself.

Joe Rogan 33:24 Well, you're also serving a function, uh, the, like, a service for people because what you're doing is you're taking all the time-

Ian Carroll 33:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:31 ... to find all this open source stuff and then putting it out there.

Ian Carroll 33:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:33 And you're really thorough about it. You say, "This is what I know." This is what-

Ian Carroll 33:36 I try to be.

Joe Rogan 33:36 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 33:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:37 You've also done-

Ian Carroll 33:38 I mean, I get shit wrong all the time, but-

Joe Rogan 33:38 ... you started doing this thing with your hand above your head. People steal that now.

Ian Carroll 33:42 Yeah, they take this act-

Joe Rogan 33:42 Have you noticed that?

Ian Carroll 33:43 Well, it's because TikTok's green screen-

Joe Rogan 33:44 Well, y- it's your hand, the way you do it though with your hand-

Ian Carroll 33:46 ... the one finger gets taken away. TikTok will delete one finger if I'm pointing with one finger-

Joe Rogan 33:50 Why?

Ian Carroll 33:50 ... because it's a green screen app, and so I'm like using the camera and it's got, in- in my camera it's putting the thing behind me-

Joe Rogan 33:56 Uh-huh.

Ian Carroll 33:56 ... but it's cutting out me, and if I only use one finger it cuts my whole hand away, so I started doing this, so-

Joe Rogan 34:01 Why is it a-

Ian Carroll 34:02 Just because the green screen, when it's like trying to AI analyze what is a body and what is the background-

Joe Rogan 34:07 Oh.

Ian Carroll 34:07 ... it'll take away my hand as though it's the background.

Joe Rogan 34:09 Oh, how weird.

Ian Carroll 34:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:10 So you started pointing out doing this at the screen yet, but- (laughs)

Ian Carroll 34:14 ... you know, I'm leading the way on that.

Joe Rogan 34:15 But I see a lot of people that are doing e- exactly your way, so that's why they're doing it.

Ian Carroll 34:20 I mean, to be fair I've- I've had a level of success that is unprecedented, and people call me a con- a controlled opposition because of it, and it's like fair.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Ah!

Ian Carroll 34:27 Like, it's like whatever, dude.

Joe Rogan 34:28 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 34:28 Like, if I was in all of their seats I would probably be like-

Joe Rogan 34:31 (moans)

Ian Carroll 34:31 ... "Where did this dude come from?" But at a certain point-

Joe Rogan 34:33 People uh, th-

Ian Carroll 34:33 ... it's like an intense level of like suspicion-

Joe Rogan 34:35 Listen, you're talking to captain controlled opposition over here.

Ian Carroll 34:37 I know, dude.

Joe Rogan 34:38 People think that I'm controlled opposition.

Ian Carroll 34:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 It's, that whole t- term is funny because there's gotta be real controlled opposition. That's why it's r-, that's why it's a term, because it's a-

Ian Carroll 34:47 At InfoWars, dude. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:48 Yeah, well it's a r-, it's-

Ian Carroll 34:48 It's crazy out here.

Joe Rogan 34:49 ... it's a valid strategy.

Ian Carroll 34:50 Yep, and-

Joe Rogan 34:51 But I think you could figure it out after a while.

Ian Carroll 34:53 Yeah, and it's, for me, I, for me it's really interesting because, and you know this too, you've been in this game for forever, is when you actually get to meet people in real life, you learn things about them. You get that vibe of them that-

Joe Rogan 35:02 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 35:02 ... is not in, it's not impenetrable. You can be fooled.

Joe Rogan 35:05 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 35:05 But like, y- how much can you fool, and can you fool all your employees all the time?

Joe Rogan 35:09 Right.

Ian Carroll 35:09 Like Alex Jones is a great example. People call him controlled opposi-, like, he's bought by the Jews, he's bought by the commies-

Joe Rogan 35:14 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 35:14 ... he's bought by the ... and it's like, cool, but I know all of his staff and I've hung out with them and like you've known him over years and years. Like, is he faking his entire life? Like, I've been on his show, I've seen what prep they do, like-

Joe Rogan 35:25 Bro, he was doing the exact same thing when no one was listening.

Ian Carroll 35:28 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 35:29 He was on public radio.

Ian Carroll 35:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:31 Alex has been saying, he's been d- talking about this stuff since the '90s, and I've known him since '90, I guess I met him in '99?

Ian Carroll 35:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:43 Yeah, so-

Ian Carroll 35:44 Yeah, I learned the other day that he started InfoWars, like he officially founded InfoWars like when I was two years old or something like that.

Joe Rogan 35:50 That's amazing.

Ian Carroll 35:50 It blew my brains. It was like, "What?"

Joe Rogan 35:52 The first video of his that really woke me up was the video he did on the World Trade Organization protests in Seattle.

Ian Carroll 36:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:00 When he showed that there was these groups of masked men who dressed in military uniforms with military gr-, military issue shoes. They all had the same shit on, and they all ran around-

Ian Carroll 36:12 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 36:12 ... in this peaceful protest for the World Trade Organization and started smashing things and lighting things on fire and creating chaos, which allowed the police to then move in. Then these people all holed up in one house, they negotiate with the police and they were all released.

Ian Carroll 36:29 Weird.

Joe Rogan 36:30 Yeah, so this is the '90s.

Ian Carroll 36:30 Almost sounds like a few events of the last couple years, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:34 Yeah. Well, it sounds like-

Ian Carroll 36:35 Funny how that works.

Joe Rogan 36:36 ... Patriot Front, which just went under.

Ian Carroll 36:38 Yep.

Joe Rogan 36:38 They went under the day after-

Ian Carroll 36:40 For real.

Joe Rogan 36:40 Yeah, you didn't know?

Ian Carroll 36:40 After USAID was cut?

Joe Rogan 36:41 No, right after Kash Patel gets in.

Ian Carroll 36:43 (laughs) Okay.

Joe Rogan 36:44 When Kash Patel got ...

Ian Carroll 36:45 Let's go.

Joe Rogan 36:45 Pull that up. Pull that up, 'cause-

Ian Carroll 36:46 Let's go.

Joe Rogan 36:47 ... 'cause there's a video of Patriot Front and me and Matt Taibbi, I go, "They're feds!"

Ian Carroll 36:51 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 36:51 I go, I'm a, it's me yelling, "Where's the fat people?"

Ian Carroll 36:53 Yep.

Joe Rogan 36:53 They're all, they're all wearing the same uniform.

Ian Carroll 36:55 I saw that clip. I saw that clip.

Joe Rogan 36:56 One guy's got a fucking drum.

Ian Carroll 36:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:57 Get the fuck out of here. These are feds!

Ian Carroll 36:59 Yep.

Joe Rogan 37:00 These are feds. The day after Kash Patel gets in, they disband.

Ian Carroll 37:06 Funny how that, I mean, that's like, I'm-

Joe Rogan 37:08 Do you have that article?

Ian Carroll 37:08 ... I'm really interested in like looking for like, right now with all these new people coming in, Kash and Pam and all, like all the picks, RFK, I'm really enjoying the process of just trying to watch their actions and trying to figure out who's doing what and how much are they gonna play to the money and play to the people. And it's just such a fascinating exercise in journalism of where you kinda-

Joe Rogan 37:26 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 37:26 And w- how much leeway do you give them? How much grace do you give them?

Joe Rogan 37:29 Uh-huh.

Ian Carroll 37:30 Um, especially with the Epstein blackmail o- hanging as a cloud over the entire federal government of, I don't think that any of those three are blackmailed, but I don't...... feel confident that I know they're not.

Joe Rogan 37:41 Let's look at some, here's a possibility other than blackmail. Negotiation.

Ian Carroll 37:46 Well, that's always a factor.

Narrator 37:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:47 But, uh, in- instead of blackmail, y- if you are a government and you have information on someone who is an asset, or someone who is very wealthy, and this person is, "Hey, (laughs) motherfucker." Like, "What are you doing?"

Ian Carroll 38:04 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 38:04 "You're in 26 times?"

Ian Carroll 38:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 38:06 "How about you shut the fuck up from here out."

Ian Carroll 38:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:09 "No more 'Trump's Hitler.'"

Ian Carroll 38:11 Well, that's the definition of blackmail.

Joe Rogan 38:12 "Cut it out. How about you say that we did a good job every now and again."

Ian Carroll 38:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:15 "Give us a little credit."

Ian Carroll 38:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 "Let's work something out here." It's not necessarily blackmail as much as its negotiation.

Ian Carroll 38:22 I would argue that that's indistinguishable.

Joe Rogan 38:24 Blackmail is I want some... Right. Unless you're getting money too. Like, you know I know what you mean.

Ian Carroll 38:28 No, blackmail is just I-

Joe Rogan 38:30 Right, right. You need to get-

Ian Carroll 38:30 ... I know something that you don't want out. And-

Joe Rogan 38:32 Right.

Ian Carroll 38:32 And any level of threatening that it'll get out, or, you know-

Joe Rogan 38:35 Okay, but what if it goes the other way? What if the wealthy person contacts them and says, "Listen, I can make things very good for you. I can do this, I can do that. If I go to jail, this is not helping anybody."

Ian Carroll 38:45 Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah, reverse, abso- I mean, I think-

Joe Rogan 38:48 Yeah. That's the opposite. That, so that's bribery, I guess?

Ian Carroll 38:51 Kind of, it's just-

Joe Rogan 38:51 Kind of.

Ian Carroll 38:51 Yeah, that's bri- that's deal-making.

Joe Rogan 38:53 Right.

Ian Carroll 38:53 But I think that a lot of Epstein's targets were willing. I think that a lot of them, 'c- 'cause I think that we're talking, it's not just Jeffrey Epstein, it's organized crime as a network.

Joe Rogan 39:04 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 39:04 Like, he's just an employee of organized crime.

Joe Rogan 39:06 Right.

Ian Carroll 39:06 And I think that a lot of those people are basically saying, "Yeah, I want into the club." Because if you are like a Reid Hoffman or, a- allegedly, if you're one of those guys and you want more contracts-

Joe Rogan 39:18 I like that, allegedly.

Ian Carroll 39:18 ... or you want more deals, like allegedly. And like, let's be clear, just 'cause I say something on Joe's podcast does not mean that Joe fucking agrees with me, CNN, thank you.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Yah!

Ian Carroll 39:26 Because like, I'm a crazy fucker, um, and I got all kinds of theories about Epstein. But like, I think that a lot of them were willing because I think a lot of them are... I mean, if you're sick enough to rape a child, like on Jeffrey Epstein's island, you're sick enough to want into that club.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Well, for sure, throughout history, there have been pedophiles.

Ian Carroll 39:45 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:45 That's a fact. For sure, some pedophiles get to prominent positions of power. That's a fact, right?

Ian Carroll 39:52 Yep. And the traits that-

Joe Rogan 39:53 Jimmy Savile.

Ian Carroll 39:53 The traits that do the same, like-

Joe Rogan 39:55 Jimmy Savile-

Ian Carroll 39:56 E- exactly.

Joe Rogan 39:56 ... in fucking England. Like, that would-

Ian Carroll 39:57 Yep.

Joe Rogan 39:57 ... eh, that should put it out to bed for anybody.

Ian Carroll 39:59 Prince Andrew.

Joe Rogan 40:00 Um-

Ian Carroll 40:00 Bill Gates.

Joe Rogan 40:00 ... Sandusky.

Ian Carroll 40:01 Allegedly.

Joe Rogan 40:02 I don't know about him. I'd never heard that. But the Sandusky I've heard.

Ian Carroll 40:05 You've never heard about Bill Gates?

Joe Rogan 40:06 I didn't know he was into kids.

Ian Carroll 40:08 Oh, dude. I mean, he's one of Epstein's closest confidants and-

Joe Rogan 40:11 Here's the thing about the Epstein thing. W- weren't they w- a lot, were they all underage? Were some of them-

Ian Carroll 40:19 No, not at all. No, it's very complex.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Right. Right.

Ian Carroll 40:21 And so some of them were-

Joe Rogan 40:22 And some of them were in their 20s.

Ian Carroll 40:23 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 40:23 Like, one girl was complaining, or I shouldn't say complaining, that's very mild.

Ian Carroll 40:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:28 One girl who, uh-

Ian Carroll 40:29 Alleging?

Joe Rogan 40:30 ... alleging that she was, uh, she was 20 at the time, she was saying.

Ian Carroll 40:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:34 So, just because someone has been to the island and has been compromised, right? Doesn't necessarily-

Ian Carroll 40:41 Oh, just 'cause they've been to the island?

Joe Rogan 40:42 ... mean that they've been compromised with underage people. But I think there's a specific group that wants underage people.

Ian Carroll 40:48 Oh, 100%.

Joe Rogan 40:49 Right.

Ian Carroll 40:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:49 And the c- and the reason why I say this, it's not a conspiracy theory, it has been that way throughout history. There are-

Ian Carroll 40:54 All of history.

Joe Rogan 40:55 ... many, many, many conspiracies that have been uncovered and criminal investigations have found that people were trafficking children.

Ian Carroll 41:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:03 It's been done. So this is not like vampires.

Ian Carroll 41:06 No, no.

Joe Rogan 41:06 We're not talking about werewolves.

Ian Carroll 41:08 Child trafficking, like, child trafficking rings get exposed and brought down around the world relatively frequently, like at least once a year.

Joe Rogan 41:14 So-

Ian Carroll 41:14 But they usually don't make big news, 'cause they're usually not like Epstein.

Joe Rogan 41:16 We know there are pedophiles. That's a real thing.

Ian Carroll 41:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:19 We know there are psychos who get very wealthy-

Ian Carroll 41:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:22 ... and want specific things.

Ian Carroll 41:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:25 Look, there's people that drink rhino horn tea.

Ian Carroll 41:29 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 41:29 Right? Why do they drink rhino horn tea? Because the rhino is so endangered, it's so gangster to have rhino horn-

Ian Carroll 41:35 It's just the elite experience.

Joe Rogan 41:36 Exactly, the elite experience.

Ian Carroll 41:37 You want... And what you're talking about is this, it's, uh, such an important concept, is that some people, like, if you wanted to pay for an underage prostitute, people can, you can pay for that. There are people, there are women that would be prostitutes underage. The people that, that we're talking about in the Epstein files that were, that wanted underage girls specifically, 'cause they weren't all underage. Some of them wanted overage girls, some of them were just scientists. They weren't all compromised. But the ones that wanted underage girls, they specifically want what they couldn't have. Because if you wanted sex that you're allowed to have, you just wanted a young girl, you could just go pay for that. What Epstein was doing is he was recruiting girls that were from like American families and kind of tricking them and coercing them. Like, they wanted a girl that, they wanted the experience of coercing. Some of these people, not all of them, want the experience of, "I'm- I am doing this to a girl that I am coercing, I am, I am manipulating, or I'm just straight up being physically violent to, to get this thing." Because if you wanted a willing 16-year-old, those do exist. And what-

Joe Rogan 42:35 But the thing about these really wealthy, high-profile people, and you know, Eric Weinstein was highlighting this to me once. He was saying-

Ian Carroll 42:45 Smart dude. I like him.

Joe Rogan 42:46 I th- very smart dude.

Ian Carroll 42:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:47 He go, an- and he wasn't making any accusations at all, but he was just talking overall. He goes, "I think there are people out there that can facilitate experiences-

Ian Carroll 42:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 42:58 ... for discreet clients."

Ian Carroll 43:00 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:01 And that it, it, it's very valuable.

Ian Carroll 43:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:03 Like, look at the guy who gave Epstein that house in Manhattan. He gave him the, the guy from-

Ian Carroll 43:08 You mean Leslie Wexner?

Joe Rogan 43:09 Yeah, the guy from Victoria's Secret.

Ian Carroll 43:10 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 43:11 He gave him a $60 million mansion.

Ian Carroll 43:15 He did way more than that.

Joe Rogan 43:16 "You're so cool."

Ian Carroll 43:16 He assigned his entire power of attorney to him.

Joe Rogan 43:18 "You're so cool, I'm gonna give you a house."

Ian Carroll 43:20 No, he gave him the, he gave him the keys to the entire castle-

Joe Rogan 43:23 Right.

Ian Carroll 43:23 ... of all of Victoria's Secret and Abercrombie & Fitch and all of L Brands.

Joe Rogan 43:27 When you find out that people who worked at Nick- Nickelodeon are pedophiles-

Ian Carroll 43:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:31 ... you go, "Oh, well, if-"

Ian Carroll 43:33 Foot fetish- foot fetishists, no less. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:34 Right. If you're gonna be a pedophile, wouldn't you go be around kids? Like, if you could be, and sneak around?Okay. Wouldn't you think that here, Sacha Baron Cohen thought he had exposed pedophile ring while filming who was America? Oh, that's right. You know that story? That's right. I forgot about that.

Ian Carroll 43:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:50 The concierge said they can- They could do something. ... "If you want that, we can help you." Yeah.

Ian Carroll 43:54 Yeah. Things happen out at, uh, like, it's kinda-

Joe Rogan 43:57 That's right.

Ian Carroll 43:58 ... crazy. Do you remember Andrew Breitbart got killed?

Joe Rogan 44:00 I do remember that.

Ian Carroll 44:00 And he got, he was exposing-

Joe Rogan 44:02 But he had a heart attack, right?

Ian Carroll 44:03 Exactly. He was exposing ACORN because so, how, um... Oh, man, I'm totally blanking on our, our boy these days that does all the un-, the, uh-

Joe Rogan 44:11 O'Keefe? James O'Keefe?

Ian Carroll 44:11 Yeah, O'Keefe. You know that James O'Keefe got his start with, with Breitbart on that story exposing ACORN? And what they did is they sent James O'Keefe and this other female reporter into ACORN and which is a-

Joe Rogan 44:21 And O'Keefe pretended to be a pimp.

Ian Carroll 44:22 He, uh, well, they pre, they asked them for help setting up an underage sex trafficking ring. And the people at ACORN-

Joe Rogan 44:28 I didn't know it was underage.

Ian Carroll 44:29 Yeah, yeah. That was the, they wanted to, they, they wanted help setting up an underage sex trafficking ring using children from Guatemala or from, uh, Central America, I think.

Joe Rogan 44:37 Did they say that in the meeting?

Ian Carroll 44:39 They, yeah, yeah. They, the p- it's on, that was what was on tape.

Joe Rogan 44:42 What?

Ian Carroll 44:43 Yeah. It's a cra... It blew my mind when I read it. I was like, "What are we talking about right now?" 'Cause I didn't know that history because I w- had no-, I wasn't paying attention back then. And that's, that is the story, is that he went in and asked for help setting up a under... I don't think he was, like, I don't think he was probably using the words like five-year-olds, 10-year-olds. I assumed that he was, like, implying, like, 16-year-olds, but I don't know. But that's the story, is that-

Joe Rogan 45:05 Well, how did he, how did he phrase it?

Ian Carroll 45:06 I, I don't know. It's not, you can't f-, I mean, I can't find those videos anymore. I've looked. Um-

Joe Rogan 45:11 Really?

Ian Carroll 45:11 ... yeah, I'm sure they're somewhere, and I'm sure that James O'Keefe could tell the story.

Joe Rogan 45:13 What happened with him and Project Veritas?

Ian Carroll 45:16 I don't know. I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 45:18 That-

Ian Carroll 45:18 And it's a whole drama fest. And I try to stay, I mean-

Joe Rogan 45:21 There's probably a lot of NDAs.

Ian Carroll 45:21 ... s-, I usually try to stay out of the drama in the modern industry 'cause it's like, it'll just waste your time and-

Joe Rogan 45:27 The conspiracy drama.

Ian Carroll 45:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:28 This drama inside the drama industry (laughs) .

Ian Carroll 45:30 There's drama in every industry, dude.

Joe Rogan 45:31 There's drama in the drama class (laughs) .

Ian Carroll 45:33 But yeah, they, like, like, they, he went in and asked for help setting up this ring and they allegedly h- said, "Yeah, here's how you do it. We'll help you, we'll help you, we'll help you." And that's what the case they brought against ACORN was-

Joe Rogan 45:42 Right.

Ian Carroll 45:42 ... before Andrew Breitbart mysteriously died. And then the coroner that did his aut- autopsy mysteriously died. It's like such a, that was such a weird one to stumble upon 'cause I didn't know I was about to stumble upon it.

Joe Rogan 45:53 (groans)

Ian Carroll 45:54 Um, yeah. And people can look, I mean-

Joe Rogan 45:55 Ugh.

Ian Carroll 45:55 ... everyone should look up, anything that I say always-

Joe Rogan 45:58 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 45:58 ... people should always just look it up and just start typing things in that I'm saying and, and see if what, if you can figure it out and what you think.

Joe Rogan 46:03 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 46:03 'Cause I am not an expert. I'm just a dude that, like, is looking things up. And I try to be really thorough but, like...

Joe Rogan 46:08 Wasn't Breitbart, was it Breitbart or Drudge that was the first victim of these coordinated anti-advertising campaigns? I think-

Ian Carroll 46:18 I'm not sure I know what you mean by that.

Joe Rogan 46:19 Is, um, so-

Ian Carroll 46:20 Oh, like where advertisers all pull out to try to tank you?

Joe Rogan 46:22 Yes. Exactly.

Ian Carroll 46:22 Like what they tried to do to Elon?

Joe Rogan 46:23 Exactly.

Ian Carroll 46:24 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 46:24 They, they do it strategically. They-

Ian Carroll 46:26 I think it was done to both probably, but I don't know.

Joe Rogan 46:29 But the, I think the first one, the first one that they did it on, I think it was Breitbart. I think Breitbart was on this, like, super rapid, uh, upward trajectory.

Ian Carroll 46:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:39 And they just completely tanked their revenue.

Ian Carroll 46:41 Yep (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 46:41 I think, was it Breitbart or was it, do you remember, Jamie? Who was talking to us about that the other day? Was it Chase Hughes? Who was it? Not on call. It might've been (sighs) .

Ian Carroll 46:51 It is interesting how you can watch how over history, the more history you learn, the more you get to see where certain strategies, like, kinda like deep state strategies, so to speak, or intelligence agency strategies get invented, and then they start using 'em. Like if-

Joe Rogan 47:02 Might've been Mike Benz. Might've been Mike-

Ian Carroll 47:04 That would be a Mike Benz thing to say, for sure.

Joe Rogan 47:05 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 47:05 Yeah. I can see that.

Joe Rogan 47:05 It sounds like Mike Benz.

Ian Carroll 47:07 He knows his shit. Yeah. Yeah, he knows a lot of shit.

Joe Rogan 47:09 That was from 2017. Okay. Breitbart paused, lost-

Ian Carroll 47:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... 90% of its advertisers in two months. That's what it is.

Ian Carroll 47:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Who's still there? So this was, so this is The Washington Post making it seem like this is a normal thing.

Ian Carroll 47:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:22 "Oh, look, they lost all their advertising."

Ian Carroll 47:23 Media frame jobs.

Joe Rogan 47:24 "People pulled out because they're full of shit."

Ian Carroll 47:26 It's just another frame game.

Joe Rogan 47:27 No. They all coordinated to try to boycott them and-

Ian Carroll 47:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:32 ... and kill them.

Ian Carroll 47:33 It's so crazy to have all of these, these tactics exposed in plain view now, and they still keep trying them. Did you see the thing that's going around today of, of the 22 different mainstream news sites all parroting the exact same, uh-

Joe Rogan 47:45 Yes.

Ian Carroll 47:45 ... thing and-

Joe Rogan 47:46 Well, not just that. All the congress people.

Ian Carroll 47:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:49 Did you see that? They're all saying the exact same thing and it's-

Ian Carroll 47:51 Yeah, that's, yeah, I guess it's congress people, not news anchors.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Yes.

Ian Carroll 47:53 It's just that now everyone is a-

Joe Rogan 47:55 No. No, no. It's, it's fucking Pelosi and Schumer-

Ian Carroll 47:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:58 ... and all these different people. There's 12 of them now they've got saying the exact same script.

Ian Carroll 48:04 Oh, it's more than 12. Alex Jones had a, had a full 22 on his show.

Joe Rogan 48:07 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 48:07 So, they kept adding to it. At first, it was two of them.

Joe Rogan 48:09 They're so dumb.

Ian Carroll 48:09 Early in the morning, and then it was 12, and then it was...

Joe Rogan 48:11 They all read the same script.

Ian Carroll 48:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:13 They're so dumb.

Ian Carroll 48:14 But they use a different tone of voice. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:16 But they give their own spin on it.

Ian Carroll 48:17 It's wild.

Joe Rogan 48:17 Because they're performers.

Ian Carroll 48:18 It's wild.

Joe Rogan 48:20 I've gotta have my own creative control.

Ian Carroll 48:21 Yeah. But then you get into the people that are like, "The whole world's a stage. Trust the plan. Q is in control." And it's like, "Whoa, dude. Calm down." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:27 Yeah. You've, you've gone too far. Well, then when you see-

Ian Carroll 48:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:30 ... that documentary on Q, you realize what kind of people you're dealing with.

Ian Carroll 48:33 Uh, which documentary? Did you see Into the Storm?

Joe Rogan 48:34 The ones that have the really cool, like, Q thing? The HBO one?

Ian Carroll 48:37 Yeah. But I don't, like, trust a documentary like that either 'cause, like, HBO is, like, that's the definition of mainstream media. So, I try to stay somewhere in the middle of that, of, like, right?

Joe Rogan 48:45 That is true, but I think HBO let this guy uncover this story accurately, I think.

Ian Carroll 48:51 I believe it.

Joe Rogan 48:51 They had him in and he explained it.

Ian Carroll 48:52 I'm pretty sure that I saw, I'm pretty sure that I did see the documentary.

Joe Rogan 48:55 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 48:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:56 It's, it's, like, a m- multipart, uh, and, and it shows all the people that were involved in it. And it kinda highlights a guy-

Ian Carroll 49:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:02 ... who seems to be Q, who is, like, kind of a internet shitposter fucking around. And-

Ian Carroll 49:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:08 ... when 4chan was in its heyday, back when all that shit was going down, like, it's ripe for that kinda nonsense.

Ian Carroll 49:14 Oh, yeah. Perfect, perfect fertile ground for that kinda, uh, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 49:17 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 49:18 ... ref- controlled reverse opposition, whatever bullshit psyops.

Joe Rogan 49:21 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 49:21 And that's where, for me, the bottom line is can I corroborate it with primary sources? And Q is the definition of no. Of course I can't.

Joe Rogan 49:28 Right.

Ian Carroll 49:28 It's like what is it? A time traveler that's coming back that's telling us how to save the world or something? Like, I don't under-, it's like...

Joe Rogan 49:33 Do you think stuff like Pizzagate, like, when they, when they, uh, had that guy come in and, and-

Ian Carroll 49:40 I already know where you're going with it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:41 ... and fire off that shot. I felt like that was a great way to put a halt to all the looking into the Podesta emails.

Ian Carroll 49:49 Exactly what that was.

Joe Rogan 49:50 'Cause then all of a sudden it's a kook thing.

Ian Carroll 49:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:52 Now it's a crazy person and a dangerous person 'cause he's got a gun. You're causing dangerous people to take their guns-

Ian Carroll 49:58 Just like with the vaccines, it's like you're, it's a dan-, they always have to make it dangerous, right?

Joe Rogan 50:02 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 50:03 It's dangerous to say that this might have side effects, right?

Joe Rogan 50:06 Right.

Ian Carroll 50:06 And in that case-

Joe Rogan 50:06 Because if you read those emails-

Ian Carroll 50:08 Exactly right.

Joe Rogan 50:09 ... those emails are bananas. They are talking-

Ian Carroll 50:12 And they are not explained.

Joe Rogan 50:13 They're talking about young kids who are going to be coming to a party to have fun. They're talking about pizza and hot dogs.

Ian Carroll 50:18 They'll be in the pool, and they will be there for sure.

Joe Rogan 50:21 They'll-

Ian Carroll 50:21 $65,000 worth of hot dogs flown from Chicago for a White House party.

Joe Rogan 50:25 This, it, the whole thing is, like, very weird.

Ian Carroll 50:28 Did you ever see the archived Instagram post from James Alefantis' Instagram?

Joe Rogan 50:33 No.

Ian Carroll 50:33 'Cause that's a dark place. So, that, there's so many layers to Pizzagate that they tried to cover up intentionally for very good reason.

Joe Rogan 50:38 Well, how about the logos?

Ian Carroll 50:40 Well, the thing is I, I avoid, and the way, and way I've talked about it, I've avoided all the symbols and logos, and even some of the pizza stuff, because I think there's so much more ripe, clear evidence-

Joe Rogan 50:51 Okay.

Ian Carroll 50:51 ... that is way more powerful. And James Alaphonts' Instagram account is a great example, where-

Joe Rogan 50:55 Wait, can you find it online?

Ian Carroll 50:57 So, you cannot find it on Instagram anymore. It's only been archived onto other sites, which is kinda sketchy 'cause it's like, how do I know you're not adding photos and stuff. So, I-

Joe Rogan 51:05 Right.

Ian Carroll 51:05 ... you kinda have to dig and dig and dig and cross-reference over and over and over to make sure that you're getting, sort of, like, the consensus, 'cause everyone watched as it happened.

Joe Rogan 51:13 Right.

Ian Carroll 51:13 So, people like Liz Croken, people like Alex Jo- ... Like, they saw these things come out and they ... You can find plenty of different archives of all of James Alaphonts' Instagram posts. And there are things like photos of children with their arms taped to tables and the-

Joe Rogan 51:24 Oh, I have seen those.

Ian Carroll 51:24 ... and the caption is, "Looks like a fun time." And then, people that have always been commenting on his posts, like the people that are interacting with his posts all the time, have even weirder Instagrams, where it's like, "Kill room," and there's a coffin that's open and things like that. There's, like, a pho- a photo of, like, a walk-in freezer and it's like, "Man, looks like you've been having a fun weekend." Things like that, that are just super dark. And a bunch of babies and a bunch of symbolism, a bunch of children, and it's all photos on their Instagram in plain day- ... Like, daylight. And they all got scrubbed, obviously.

Joe Rogan 51:55 Jesus Christ.

Ian Carroll 51:56 And that's not to mention Podesta's art collection and the Marina Abramovich connections. It goes on and on and on and on and on.

Joe Rogan 52:02 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 52:02 And we're talking about the Clintons with the Haiti scandals, with the cocaine in Arkansas. It's like the, the thing is that we sound crazy, I sound crazy to someone that doesn't do their own research, because you just start... There's so many layers of, like, crazy shit that's happened with some of these people-

Joe Rogan 52:18 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 52:18 ... that if you don't know the history of a person like Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, it's really easy to think, "Oh, that's just so insane that you would think that they'd be involved in a ..." And first of all, they frame it. In the articles about Pizzagate, they say, "Hillary Clinton was the mastermind of a global pedophile sex-trafficking ring, all headquartered in this pizza shop," which is not what anyone ever claimed.

Joe Rogan 52:40 Right. So, as soon as you can discredit that, you discredit the whole thing.

Ian Carroll 52:44 Classic frame job, which Nancy Pelosi explains very well, where you make a false-

Joe Rogan 52:48 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 52:48 ... claim and you say that's what they're saying, and then you discredit the false claim. But if you li- really learn the history of the Clinton family, just as one example, um, Bill Cl-

Joe Rogan 52:56 Did you ever read The Strange Death, De- Death of Vince Foster?

Ian Carroll 52:59 No.

Joe Rogan 53:00 You should read that.

Ian Carroll 53:00 But I know a little bit about the Foster situation and a couple of those weird deaths earlier on.

Joe Rogan 53:05 I read that book-

Ian Carroll 53:05 I should read that.

Joe Rogan 53:06 ... back in the dizay, and that's what got me into, uh, wondering about the Clintons.

Ian Carroll 53:11 Of Vince Foster.

Joe Rogan 53:11 Because that guy died. They found his body where there was less blood at the scene than was missing from his body and the gun-

Ian Carroll 53:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:19 ... was still in his hand.

Ian Carroll 53:20 I was actually just reading about that specific murder in Whitney Webb's books, like, two nights ago.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 53:25 'Cause she goes over that too, 'cause it's a huge question mark.

Joe Rogan 53:28 The gun was in his hand. The gun's never in your hand.

Ian Carroll 53:30 And his family claimed that that wasn't the right gun. He, he was ... He had a black gun and his family's like, "No, he owned a silver gun." All these weird things. They never found the bullet. Like, all sorts of things that just don't add up. And that was right after Epstein had first walked into Bill Clinton's life. That was between White House visit number one and White House visit number two, while Epstein was funding the refurbishing of the entire, uh, west wing of the White House.

Joe Rogan 53:52 I'm glad, I'm glad you brought up Epstein 'cause there was a point that I was gonna make earlier that I forgot. The Epstein situation is identical to the Manson situation.

Ian Carroll 54:00 You think so?

Joe Rogan 54:01 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 54:01 Explain, explain what you mean.

Joe Rogan 54:02 This is why-

Ian Carroll 54:03 I mean-

Joe Rogan 54:03 ... if, if-

Ian Carroll 54:03 ... I think you don't mean that literally.

Joe Rogan 54:04 No, no, no.

Ian Carroll 54:04 I think you mean that in a more-

Joe Rogan 54:05 I mean-

Ian Carroll 54:06 ... metaphorical way, right?

Joe Rogan 54:06 ... the structure. The structure of how you would pu- ... Like, if you were gonna use an intelligence asset to do something evil, to do something where you can get dirt on people or compromise people or, or accomplish an objective, you would get someone who's already fucked up.

Ian Carroll 54:26 Oh, 100%.

Joe Rogan 54:27 And then you get that fucked-up person and you help them, you know, run this cult, or you help them get girls and you-

Ian Carroll 54:35 But you intentionally keep them separate.

Joe Rogan 54:37 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 54:37 You don't ... You're, you're not hiring them. They don't work for you.

Joe Rogan 54:40 Right.

Ian Carroll 54:40 They're a private entity.

Joe Rogan 54:41 If he wasn't-

Ian Carroll 54:41 It's like layers of obfuscation.

Joe Rogan 54:43 Like, if he wasn't personally a pervert, it wouldn't work.

Ian Carroll 54:46 Oh, not a chance. No.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Like, think about, like, the guy gets arrested for having sex with underage girls, or getting them to do-

Ian Carroll 54:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:53 ... happy endings or whatever he, wherever he did. So, he gets arrested and then the real weird thing is that he just get, gets out and gets, like, house arrest.

Ian Carroll 55:01 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:02 And he gets, like, a little slap on the wrist and then he's back in action with all these rich people again.

Ian Carroll 55:06 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:06 Like, really rich influential people. Like, Bill Gates is hanging out with him after-

Ian Carroll 55:10 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:10 ... he's already been arrested and convicted. Like, that's bananas.

Ian Carroll 55:16 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:16 But to your-

Ian Carroll 55:16 But-

Joe Rogan 55:16 ... point about them-

Ian Carroll 55:17 ... he's gotta already be fucked up. He can't be- 100%.

Joe Rogan 55:19 ... like, a straight-edge, regular guy with a family and children that is just evil.

Ian Carroll 55:24 No.

Joe Rogan 55:24 No, you gotta have him in on the thing. So, if you got a guy you know is already a freak, you, you know he's already a nut and he's already, like, doing-

Ian Carroll 55:32 That's how you recruit him.

Joe Rogan 55:33 ... blow and fucking hookers-

Ian Carroll 55:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:34 ... all the time and maybe he's been caught with a few underage girls. You-

Ian Carroll 55:39 Well, when you study where he came from and how he got plucked from the Dalton School and then got put into Bear Stearns, and then got put through Bear Stearns, and then got put into money management. Like-

Joe Rogan 55:47 And was teaching at one point in time.

Ian Carroll 55:49 And was teaching at the Dalton School and then he was a, a banker at Bear Stearns, which he conveniently left when this big scandal broke that impli- that implicated him and the director, Goldstein, that had hired him and had been helping him up. And then, he left and kinda took the fall and took the dirt with him. And then, he went into the arms-running businesses, wh- which is where he went ... met Maxwell, uh, daddy Maxwell, not, not daughter Maxwell, and Adnan Khashoggi and Leese and all these other arms traffickers. And that's where he got into those ... So, it's like he walked slowly into these worlds and as they're doing that, I'm imagining they're taking tabs on him, like, "What kinda guy is this? And what's he into?" And he's working with arms traffickers, and some of those arms traffickers were famous for blackmail.

Joe Rogan 56:26 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 56:26 Like Adnan Khashoggi, he was famous for having his yacht filled up with cameras and giving his arms deals-... everything they could ever want while he's selling weapons to them, and he's got his whole yacht wired up with cameras. Trump later bought that yacht, which is super interesting.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Whoa.

Ian Carroll 56:41 Do you know about that?

Joe Rogan 56:42 No.

Ian Carroll 56:42 So Trump, g- c- check this out, and I'm not claiming that Trump is in on everything, it's a very complex thing here, but Trump's history is pretty weird. He bought the Plaza Hotel, which is where the Blue Suite parties that blackmailed J. Edgar Hoover happened. You remem- do you know about those?

Joe Rogan 56:57 No.

Ian Carroll 56:58 So-

Joe Rogan 56:58 What year was that?

Ian Carroll 56:58 Oh, dude, so J. Edgar Hoover, the founder of the FBI... This is where I thought I was starting this fucking job to talk about GameStop-

Joe Rogan 57:05 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 57:05 ... and to talk about, like, the financial markets and shit, and then I realized how important intelligence agencies and organized crime are to how the world works, and I just got deeper-

Joe Rogan 57:13 Woo.

Ian Carroll 57:13 ... and deeper and deeper and deeper into, like, the history.

Joe Rogan 57:14 I don't wanna miss out on some of the Epstein stuff.

Ian Carroll 57:17 Oh, we gotta, yeah. We-

Joe Rogan 57:17 Should we come back to that?

Ian Carroll 57:18 W- w- well, we'll get there. This is all connected.

Joe Rogan 57:20 Oh, it's all connected. Okay.

Ian Carroll 57:21 I could talk about the Epstein stuff for fucking days and start all kinds of trouble for your podcast and shit, but, um... (Joe coughs)

Joe Rogan 57:28 Well, I think-

Ian Carroll 57:28 But-

Joe Rogan 57:28 ... that trouble's supposed to be coming out publicly.

Ian Carroll 57:31 I don't think it's gonna.

Joe Rogan 57:32 Wasn't there the, uh, so the, the-

Ian Carroll 57:33 It's not gonna come out.

Joe Rogan 57:33 ... the FBI in New York guy had to step down, right?

Ian Carroll 57:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:37 They w- they were saying that they're withholding files.

Ian Carroll 57:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:39 So, the Pam Bondi's office said that they just got thousands of files.

Ian Carroll 57:43 Allegedly, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Allegedly.

Ian Carroll 57:44 We'll see what happens.

Joe Rogan 57:45 Right.

Ian Carroll 57:45 We'll see what happens.

Joe Rogan 57:46 I've been saying that I'm like Charlie Brown with Lucy and the football.

Ian Carroll 57:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:49 You know, when she pulls the football away every time he thinks he's gonna get to kick it and he goes falling on his ass.

Ian Carroll 57:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:53 That's how it feels.

Ian Carroll 57:54 Because, like, the... Have you... You haven't read Whitney Webb's books, have you?

Joe Rogan 57:56 No.

Ian Carroll 57:57 You really should. Because-

Joe Rogan 57:58 I've watched a lot of her stuff online though.

Ian Carroll 57:59 So the thi- the thing about her stuff online is that she comes off as way more unhinged on- 'cause now she's-

Joe Rogan 58:03 (coughs) .

Ian Carroll 58:04 And she's very smart. She's very smart.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Clear.

Ian Carroll 58:05 And she's on it.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Clear.

Ian Carroll 58:06 But she's now very concerned, rightly so, about the sort of technocratic nature of what might be to come. But her research on Jeffrey Epstein is looking backwards at the history of organized crime and the history of Epstein and it paints a very, like, we know very well who he worked for and we know who he was associated with. She has primary sources with pages of sources cited about who put him where, who he interacted with, who said what about him, who claimed what about his life, and it's, like, it's two full books and it's very well-sourced with primary sources cited all the way throughout. And so it's like, we don't actually really need the Epstein files to know what was going on. They might... They'll pro- hopefully include a lot of new details, but we have-

Joe Rogan 58:42 But don't we need it for, for rock solid proof? Like don't we-

Ian Carroll 58:46 Sort of.

Joe Rogan 58:46 Don't we need the, the f-

Ian Carroll 58:48 So take, take Leslie Wexner-

Joe Rogan 58:49 The flight logs.

Ian Carroll 58:49 ... that we were talking about earlier. No, we already have the flight logs.

Joe Rogan 58:51 Do we have all of them?

Ian Carroll 58:52 Unredacted. All of them.

Joe Rogan 58:53 Really?

Ian Carroll 58:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:53 All of them. So do we know-

Ian Carroll 58:54 Well, theoretically. The ones we know of.

Joe Rogan 58:56 And do we have flight logs with destinations?

Ian Carroll 58:59 Yes. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:59 So we know, so we know who went to the islands?

Ian Carroll 59:01 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:02 Okay.

Ian Carroll 59:02 Yeah. They're all there and you can read them online. They're on archive.org, um, as well as other places. But Leslie Wexner's a great example here. Um, Leslie Wexner owns Victoria's Secret and L Brands, right? He's the bank that bankrolled Jeffrey Epstein and he- I was saying earlier that he signed the power of attorney over to Jeffrey Epstein so that Jeffrey Epstein was able to sell his assets, manage his assets, buy on his behalf. He could sell Victoria's Secret without Leslie Wexner in the room or even his knowledge if he wanted to because that's the level of power of attorney that he signed over to Jeffrey Epstein when he was his money manager. And the reason why you do that is so that you can claim that you don't know about his operation. "I, he was just my money manager. I didn't know he was running this thing 'cause I wasn't involved in any of those transactions." But what that meant is that Leslie Wexner damn well knew. There's a wh- I, we could go into the mega group and we could go into his connections to Charles Bronfman, all these other things, but-

Joe Rogan 59:49 But I was saying about L- the Vo- Victoria's Secrets, if you're a pedophile, you wanna work with kids-

Ian Carroll 59:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:54 ... and Nickelodeon. If you're a freak, what do you do? You get in the underwear business.

Ian Carroll 59:58 That's how they were recruiting, is they were recruiting from the Victoria's Secret modeling-

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 Right.

Ian Carroll 1:00:00 ... and Jeffrey Epstein was claiming that he was a rep, but do you know about the, the CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch that went down for running a sex trafficking ring?

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 1:00:08 He, so he was Leslie Wexner's guy. When Leslie Wexner, he bought Abercrombie & Fitch in, like, 1990, maybe '91, '89, and then one of the first things he did was he put that dude into s- position as CEO. That was Leslie Wexner's dude and he becomes the CEO and he's gay and he likes really hot young male models and he started running a male sex trafficking ring out of Abercrombie & Fitch. So Leslie Wexner, this dude who is a self-proclaimed possessed by a demon, like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 What?

Ian Carroll 1:00:38 Yeah, yeah. Whitney has a whole chapter where she goes into this article that was done by a mainstream news source, um, like, 10, 20 years ago where they're interviewing Leslie Wexner and asking him about how he came to power and what's his secret. It's called his dybbuk, D-Y-B-B-U-K, and you can read about this on Wikipedia as well and he describes in his own words that he's possessed by a dybbuk, which is, like, a Yiddish word for a in- for a evil demon that drives him for more and more and more and more. This is in his own words.

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 Is this... Is he being hyperbolic?

Ian Carroll 1:01:07 A little bit.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 Is he joking around? Like-

Ian Carroll 1:01:08 No.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 ... "Oh, I'm possessed by a demon that just wants more and more. I just wanna be successful."

Ian Carroll 1:01:14 No, I mean, I, I mean, I wasn't in the room, but I assume, based upon the wording and how it's put, I assume-

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 Let's, let's find it.

Ian Carroll 1:01:19 ... it's like, yeah, it's like a-

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 We'll find it. I want to read that.

Ian Carroll 1:01:21 It's like a billionaire... I mean, it's in the text, it's directly quoted in the text in One Nation Under Blackmail, actually, which is in that backpack. Um, and-

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 One Nation Under Blackmail?

Ian Carroll 1:01:30 One Nation Under Blackmail by Whitney Webb.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Is that what he's called?

Ian Carroll 1:01:32 Highly recommend, but it's super dense. It's a hard read. It, I've read it three times now and I still am taking notes and trying to look things up to understand it because she's just so researched. And it's things like this where she's gone back to the original, like, article where they were interviewing him and he's just like a CEO. So they're just asking him, "What's your secret to success?" And he's like, "I'm, I'm possessed by... I n- I have a drive for more." And he chose the word dybbuk, which is a Yiddish word.

Narrator 1:01:57 So this is from a-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 (clears throat) Yeah.

Narrator 1:01:58 ... New York Magazine interview he gave to-

Ian Carroll 1:02:00 That's exactly the source.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 ... MTV. He says, uh, "And now perhaps it's time to reintroduce Leslie Wexner's dybbuk, the demon that always wakes up in the morning with Wexner and tweaks and pulls at him. When he was a boy, his father called it tummel, a churning, so he feels molten and unformed, pricked by these spiritual pins and needles. He met the de- this demon again when he was 40 and already worth half a billion, when he climbed the mountain in front of the house in Vail and almost froze to death and decided to change his life."This demon call, he calls terminal-

Ian Carroll 1:02:36 Schwukis.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... fu-

Ian Carroll 1:02:37 Schwukis.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 ... -schfilkes.

Ian Carroll 1:02:38 Schwukis.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 Which makes him wander from the house, from house to house, repeating this pa- the pattern of his childhood on a luxurious scale, wanting more, swallowing companies larger than his own is precisely the reason that Wexner has, uh, has a billion and doesn't stop at, say, five million and a new Mercedes every other year, in what he calls normal life, Bridge on Wednesdays and Bar Mitzvahs on Saturdays and the Winding Hollow Country Club in Columbus, which is like Buckingham Palace to him when he was 15.

Ian Carroll 1:03:09 Yeah. He's-

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 Yeah.

Ian Carroll 1:03:09 So, that's just to point out that like, A, he's a fucking weird dude.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 Mm-hmm.

Ian Carroll 1:03:13 Um, he's a sketchy dude. He's running two sex trafficking rings out of his companies that he doesn't know anything about and simultaneously, he founded, I mean, the Wexner Foundations and the Les- Le- Leslie Wexner Heritage Foundation, those are also very interesting and controversial. They're very tied to Israel because he is one of the foremost Israeli philanthropists, despite being an American. Um, but he founded what was called the Mega Group, which is a, essentially a... I mean, it was not disclosed for a long time. It was secret. And it is a group of Jewish billionaires that get together on behalf of global Judaism, which is not uncommon and there's nothing wrong with that if they're not committing crimes.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 (sniffs)

Ian Carroll 1:03:54 Um, but they would get together and meet, and it's people like Leslie Wexner, Charles Bronfman, the list is... We, we could look it up. Um, and that group s-... It is unclear if we have proof that they were conducting espionage, but there are s- there are, uh... All of them have ties to organized crime through various elements, like the Bronfmans were liquor, were, were rum-runners, as one example that were then involved in the mob. Leslie Wexner's involved in these trafficking rings, et cetera. And that group seems to have been directly associated with Jeffrey Epstein. And she's, again, she's one that she shows all the primary sources and, like, lays it all out. "This is what we know, and this is where the source came from, and this is what it said, and these are possible explanations for it. Here's one or two or three explanations of what it might be, but we don't really know because this is as far as the evidence goes." Um, and so Leslie Wexner is just one where there's all this swirling evidence all around him that the, in order for him to not be aware of what's going on and to not have been a active part of this, is damn near unbelievable in my eyes, allegedly. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 That's well-covered. You did a good job of covering your bases there. (laughs)

Ian Carroll 1:05:04 Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, I've learned to do.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 (laughs)

Ian Carroll 1:05:06 Because, I mean, I started on TikTok where you can't even say certain words or you'll get, you'll get taken off of TikTok, so...

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 Right. Right.

Ian Carroll 1:05:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Which is also fascinating.

Ian Carroll 1:05:13 Yeah. But like, the f- so the files getting released, I am not expecting them to come out in any complete form because the, the mainstream understanding is that Jeffrey Epstein was the guy. Jeffrey Epstein was just an employee of these organized crime rings that work on behalf of, like, the CIA and Israeli Mossad and British Intelligence and the whole... 'Cause organized crime is the black markets, the dark things, the sex, the drugs, the rock and roll, the child trafficking. And intelligence agencies were designed to be legitimate governments', uh, point of access to organized crime. I mean, theoretically, intelligence agencies were supposed to be, Truman wanted the intelligence agencies to be a newspaper about what's going on in the world, for the president to know, right? But Allen Dulles was not about that. Allen Dulles, founder of the CIA, was like, "I wanna do covert operations." And very, immediately, covert operations were, like, overthrowing the government of Guatemala, Iran, uh, buying the elections in Italy. They bought the elections in Italy by just passing giant bags of cash to the mafia