Joe Rogan Experience #2290 - Michael Kosta

Narrator 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Yes, sir, Michael. Good to see you-

Michael Kosta 0:13 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:14 ... my friend.

Michael Kosta 0:15 Thanks for having me, and really appreciate you showing me around. Wow, what a space you, you've created, man.

Joe Rogan 0:19 Thank you. Thank you.

Michael Kosta 0:21 That's so cool. Keeps going. I was excited to show you the picture of my sauna.

Joe Rogan 0:25 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 0:26 And then you show me-

Joe Rogan 0:27 (laughs) .

Michael Kosta 0:27 ... (laughs) you got an archery. Uh, it's so cool, man.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Thank you, thank you. It's fun.

Michael Kosta 0:31 That's so cool, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:31 So we were just singing Jon Stewart's praises, uh, before this started. But I'm-

Michael Kosta 0:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:35 ... so happy he's back at The Daily Show.

Michael Kosta 0:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:37 And I'm so happy he makes fun of everything, and I'm so happy he still makes dick jokes.

Michael Kosta 0:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:42 You know, it's fun. It's like The Daily Show seems like The Daily Show again. Like, that guy's a very unique dude, very unique person. And one of the most important, like, pieces to, like, unify everybody. He's, uh, is reasonable.

Michael Kosta 0:54 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:54 Like, he gets the whole-

Michael Kosta 0:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:56 ... big picture. Like, let's stop being so fucking ridiculously tribal.

Michael Kosta 1:00 In the morning meeting, he'll come in, and we're all sitting there, the writers. And he just kind of shuts the door behind him, and we start talking. But it's, it's like a, it's like a conversation with a college professor, but he's in charge. And it's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:16 Mm-hmm.

Michael Kosta 1:17 All sides. This, I disagree with that, what about this? And it's like, oh, w- it's, it's really fun to be a part of. And then someone will yell out a dick joke, and then that joke will make it to the show too, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:26 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:26 It's like smart things and dumb things. That's, that's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:28 Well, he's never abandoned being a real comic.

Michael Kosta 1:31 Correct, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31 You know, which is what got him to the dance in the first place. So he's always ha- he always has tha- those instincts. And he's the very best at, like, holding a line-

Michael Kosta 1:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:41 ... and, like, making something, like-

Michael Kosta 1:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42 ... even more preposterous just with the facial expression.

Michael Kosta 1:45 Correct, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46 And pointing out, like, these fucking unbelievably ridiculous in-your-face hypocrisies that you see-

Michael Kosta 1:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52 ... every day from both sides.

Michael Kosta 1:54 Yeah, from both sides. Have you, have you ever done standup with him?

Joe Rogan 1:57 Oh, yeah, we've done stuff together.

Michael Kosta 1:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58 Like back in the day, yeah. God, I can't remember the last time. I was supposed to do something with him at one of Dave's things that we, that he was doing-

Michael Kosta 2:07 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:07 ... outside back in the day, but I never wound up doing it. But I definitely did standup with him in the clubs back in New York. And I knew him way, way back in the day when he was on MTV.

Michael Kosta 2:18 Yeah, I remember that. And I think, I remember-

Joe Rogan 2:20 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 2:20 ... one of his books was called Naked Pictures of Famous People.

Joe Rogan 2:25 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 2:25 (laughs) Which, which was great.

Joe Rogan 2:26 He's a solid guy.

Michael Kosta 2:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:28 Like, he's a solid guy.

Michael Kosta 2:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29 I don't always agree with him, but I don't always agree with everybody. I don't even agree with me.

Michael Kosta 2:33 Isn't that good?

Joe Rogan 2:34 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 2:34 I mean, isn't, isn't that the point of this? It's like you want a l- a couple people to be mad sometimes.

Joe Rogan 2:38 I also think we all-

Michael Kosta 2:39 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 2:39 ... as human beings need to be divorced from our ideas.

Michael Kosta 2:42 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:42 Your ideas are not you.

Michael Kosta 2:44 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:44 You are you. And ideas are things that you should consider.

Michael Kosta 2:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Uh, ideas are something that you should ... I mean, if it's gonna have some sort of a real physical impact on your life and your family and your family's life-

Michael Kosta 2:55 Right, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:56 ... and people you care about, I understand. I understand why you get connected to things like that.

Michael Kosta 2:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:59 But for the most part, most of these i- ideas don't affect you. A lot of them don't. And yet we're so ideologically captured that we fight for these ideas as if it's our very nature.

Michael Kosta 3:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:11 And so you're, you're talking about your essence as a human being. And it's stupid.

Michael Kosta 3:16 This reminds me of a time I left my joke book on a train in New York. And, uh, in the joke book I have, "This book is important to me. Call me if you get this." You know? And this guy texts me and he says, "I have this joke book." And, you know, talk about your ideas.

Joe Rogan 3:34 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 3:34 The joke book is the most unfiltered dumb idea ever.

Joe Rogan 3:38 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 3:39 That's the beauty of it.

Joe Rogan 3:40 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 3:41 And I th- I said, "Man, I'm sure he's reading it." Why, you know, if you're gonna read it-

Joe Rogan 3:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael Kosta 3:45 ... you're gonna read a stranger's joke book. And I connected with him. He was very kind. He gave it to me, but he kind of looked at me like, "Are, are you a comedian type thing?" And I said, "Yeah." But it's terrifying when that idea gets attached to you when it was just a fleeting idea.

Joe Rogan 4:00 Right. Yeah. The, the joke book idea is the best example of that, right, because most of what you write is shit. Which took me forever-

Michael Kosta 4:07 Oh my God. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:07 ... to figure out. I was like, "God, I just write shit."

Michael Kosta 4:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:10 And then every now and then, a gem.

Michael Kosta 4:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Like, ooh, and then you extract the gem.

Michael Kosta 4:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:13 But I've realized afterwards, you, it's basically like gold mining. Most of the time you're not finding gold. You're finding garbage.

Michael Kosta 4:20 And you only get to gold by going through garbage.

Joe Rogan 4:23 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 4:23 Sometimes I'll do a show and it's terrible, new joke show, but then the next day the thing happens. And I think, "Oh, that's because-

Joe Rogan 4:31 Yes.

Michael Kosta 4:31 ... I was digging all day yesterday."

Joe Rogan 4:33 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 4:34 Uh-

Joe Rogan 4:34 It's the muse, right?

Michael Kosta 4:35 The muse, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:35 You have to show up and, and request the muse's love.

Michael Kosta 4:40 I like that.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Yeah. I mean, do you ever read, uh, Pressfield's War of Art?

Michael Kosta 4:43 No.

Joe Rogan 4:43 It's really ... We have a stack of him out there.

Michael Kosta 4:45 Ah.

Joe Rogan 4:45 I'll get you a copy of it. It's a small book, easy read.

Michael Kosta 4:48 Jay Larsen, comedian in LA, recommended that book to me 10 years ago.

Joe Rogan 4:52 Mm-hmm.

Michael Kosta 4:52 And, and I never tackled it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:54 It's really good.

Michael Kosta 4:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:55 I used to ge- I used to have a stack of them in the studio where I'd give out to guests, 'cause so-

Michael Kosta 4:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:58 ... so many comics, I was like, "This is what you need."

Michael Kosta 5:00 What's the essence? I will read it. What's the ... Also, you know what keeps freaking me out? If there's a shooting star above my head. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:05 Yes, there is. Yeah, there is. Yeah. Every now and then one will fly above your head.

Michael Kosta 5:08 (laughs) That's so cool.

Joe Rogan 5:10 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 5:10 Uh, what's the essence? The, the, the War of Art. That makes it sound like it's a struggle to create art.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Yeah, it's the struggle against resistance.

Michael Kosta 5:18 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:18 Which is procrastination-

Michael Kosta 5:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:19 ... which is this thing that we all do before we actually write. Which is so weird, because I love when I'm actually locked in and great ideas are coming.

Michael Kosta 5:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:28 It's one of the best feelings in the world. Like, it's like somehow or another you're pulling these ideas out of nowhere.

Michael Kosta 5:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:34 And then it's your job to take this seed and try to go plant it on stage.

Michael Kosta 5:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:38 And try to water it-

Michael Kosta 5:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:39 ... and try to, uh, over the course of many months y- it'll become a great bit.

Michael Kosta 5:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:43 And they just only come if you sit there. They only come if you sit there. And what he is saying is that you have to treat it like you're a professional.

Michael Kosta 5:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:51 And you have to decide at 8:00 AM I will show up-

Michael Kosta 5:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:54 ... and I will be there for three hours.

Michael Kosta 5:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:56 I will shut my phone off, I will lock in.

Michael Kosta 5:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:58 This is what I do because I am a professional.

Michael Kosta 6:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:01 And you literally make a prayer to the muse. You, you offer-

Michael Kosta 6:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:06 ... yourself to the muse. You say, "I'm here to work. I'm here to gather ideas."

Michael Kosta 6:11 To be open.

Joe Rogan 6:11 "I'm here to be creative and be open."

Michael Kosta 6:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:14 And you treat it that way. Whether or not the muse is real or not.

Michael Kosta 6:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:17 That's kind of-

Michael Kosta 6:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:19 You can get hung up on that. But if you treat it like it's real-

Michael Kosta 6:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:22 ... it works.... which is really crazy.

Michael Kosta 6:25 I love, I love that and I don't do that. And early in my comedy career, I would go to the coffee shop at this time and start typing. And I have all these bit... And I remember Tommy at the Comedy Store, he would say, "Every time I see you, you have new bits." And I would go, "Yeah, 'cause I'm go..." And now, what's crazy, life has gotten crazier, I don't make time for myself to do that, but I need to honor the muse, man.

Joe Rogan 6:47 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 6:47 I like that.

Joe Rogan 6:48 I'm, my move is when everyone's asleep in my house-

Michael Kosta 6:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 6:52 ... 'cause-

Michael Kosta 6:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:53 ... I still, I get up pretty early for a comic.

Michael Kosta 6:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:56 You know, I'm up by 8:00-

Michael Kosta 6:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:58 ... al- almost every day.

Michael Kosta 6:59 Comics are u- unreal with that.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Right.

Michael Kosta 7:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:01 But that means that I can go to bed at 1:00 and still get seven hours of sleep.

Michael Kosta 7:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:05 So, that's what I do.

Michael Kosta 7:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:06 So, when... Everybody in my house kinda goes to bed early. My kids go to school.

Michael Kosta 7:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:10 My wife goes to bed early.

Michael Kosta 7:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:11 So, when everyone's asleep, it's just me and the dog.

Michael Kosta 7:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:14 You know, and either we're watching YouTube or I'm writing. And I, that's when I get my best work done. So-

Michael Kosta 7:19 Do you write by hand or you type?

Joe Rogan 7:20 ... everyone's asleep. No, I w- I type.

Michael Kosta 7:22 You type.

Joe Rogan 7:22 Yeah. I feel like, uh, I can't write fast enough by hand. I need-

Michael Kosta 7:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:26 What I like about, uh, typing is that I don't have to look at the keys. I know how to type. So, I can make a letter, I can make a word very quickly. I can-

Michael Kosta 7:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:36 ... like, and I can, like, zone in to it. But what I really like is a keyboard that I can feel.

Michael Kosta 7:43 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Like, I need travel in my keys.

Michael Kosta 7:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:46 You know, and these clickety, clickety, clickety little-

Michael Kosta 7:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:48 ... MacBook key-

Michael Kosta 7:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:49 ... those are bullshit.

Michael Kosta 7:49 Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:50 What you want is a keyboard that you don't have to look at-

Michael Kosta 7:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:52 ... because it's got, like, little divots-

Michael Kosta 7:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:54 ... where your finger sits. So I use a ThinkPad. And ThinkPads have the best keyboards. They have travel. Each one has, like-

Michael Kosta 8:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 8:01 ... a couple of millimeters of travel. So it's a clickety, clickety, clickety.

Michael Kosta 8:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:04 So my fingers know exactly where to go, and I could just get into the zone.

Michael Kosta 8:07 You're zoning right now.

Joe Rogan 8:08 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 8:09 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:09 So, that's how I do it. Like, the, I have, like, a whole thing.

Michael Kosta 8:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 8:13 Like, the laptop that I write on, it's not connect- it has no apps. It never goes anywhere.

Michael Kosta 8:17 That's-

Joe Rogan 8:17 It doesn't get-

Michael Kosta 8:18 ... that is smart.

Joe Rogan 8:19 ... email.

Michael Kosta 8:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:19 It does... I only allow myself to use the Bing search engine-

Michael Kosta 8:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:24 ... to find out if s- what, what the... 'Cause most of the time, if I'm writing about something, like, you know, when was this discovered?

Michael Kosta 8:29 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:29 What, what happened here?

Michael Kosta 8:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:30 Who figured that out? It's normal facts. Daylight savings is coming, so we're about to lose an hour and that means trying to speed up your morning. But if you drink AG1, maybe you're fine with it. It's that quick and easy to help your body feel great every day. Starting your day with AG1 can help you shake off the grogginess, get back into your rhythm, and even give you the boost you need to make the most of that extra hour of sunlight, maybe even turning you into the morning person you've always wanted to be. AG1 rules. I drank it for a long time now. And seriously, it's as easy as I say every month. You just take one scoop, put it in some cold water, shake it up, and you're ready to go. Honestly, it tastes pretty good too. I'm not complaining. It's never too late to create a new healthy habit for 2025, so try AG1 for yourself. It's easy to stay consistent with, and that's why I've been partnering with AG1 for so long. And AG1 is offering new customers a free gift when you subscribe. You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3+K2 and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure you check out drinkag1.com/joerogan. That's drinkag1.com/joerogan.

Michael Kosta 9:42 That's a trap for me frequently. I'll start typing, I was working on a bit recently that all of these amazing men, these explorers, these achievers, the idea was 'cause I found out that Sir Edmund Hillary, the Mount Everest's, uh, first man to climb Everest, he had like, nine kids or something. And the i- idea, the joke was, I don't even think he likes climbing mountains. I don't even think he enjoys outdoors. It's that he's trying to get away from his family. So then I looked up Roger Bannister, the guy who, who, uh, broke the four-minute mile. He had like seven kids.

Joe Rogan 10:15 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 10:15 I'm like, "I don't even think he likes running. He's just trying to run away from his family." But I remember writing that bit and it's a funny bit. There might-

Joe Rogan 10:21 It's a great bit.

Michael Kosta 10:22 There might have been an Elon thing there. He has a lot of kids, going to Mars, whatever. There was-

Joe Rogan 10:25 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 10:25 ... there was other stuff. Um, but I would keep getting sidetracked by these Googles, right? I'd start typing a bit, now I'm on Sir Edmund Hillary's Wikipedia page. Now, I'm click- and I'm-

Joe Rogan 10:33 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 10:34 ... and I'm gone. And that's a trap.

Joe Rogan 10:35 Yeah. You can-

Michael Kosta 10:35 That's tricky.

Joe Rogan 10:36 It's procrastination.

Michael Kosta 10:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:37 It really is. And you can get locked in. And the w-

Michael Kosta 10:40 So, the discipline is to s- is to keep it stay on the bit constant.

Joe Rogan 10:44 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 10:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:44 I would play this stupid game with myself. I was like, "I'll just go on YouTube real quick and see if I get inspired by anything-"

Michael Kosta 10:49 Right, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:50 "... before I write." And then-

Michael Kosta 10:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:51 ... m- I'm watching two hours of muscle car builds.

Michael Kosta 10:54 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 10:55 (laughs) Just f- k- fucking-

Michael Kosta 10:57 Oh, dude, it's wild.

Joe Rogan 10:58 ... watching people turn their Land Cruiser into an off-road-

Michael Kosta 11:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:01 ... vehicle. Like, come on.

Michael Kosta 11:02 I would do, I would do motorcycle handlebars, you know?

Joe Rogan 11:05 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 11:06 I w- I would, I would find my motorcycle and then there'd be like, that's ama- it's 20 different handlebar builds and stuff.

Joe Rogan 11:12 What kind of motorcycle do you drive?

Michael Kosta 11:13 I have a, uh, Triumph Bonneville 2011. It's in a, it's in storage in Pennsylvania now. I take it out in the summer a lot, but-

Joe Rogan 11:22 Where do you drive it?

Michael Kosta 11:23 ... in, in LA, that's all, that was what I used all the time.

Joe Rogan 11:26 You ride a motorcycle in LA?

Michael Kosta 11:28 I did forever. It's-

Joe Rogan 11:29 Holy shit, dude.

Michael Kosta 11:29 ... you know, my wife doesn't really, you know, we have a family now, but-

Joe Rogan 11:32 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 11:32 ... in PA, I, I ride it a lot. Um, and there, it's deer, man, they're very, you know, that's the scary thing there.

Joe Rogan 11:39 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 11:39 They get very close. They're not afraid of cars or motor vehicles at this point.

Joe Rogan 11:43 Well, there's a time between like September-ish to like December-ish where they're retarded-

Michael Kosta 11:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:48 ... because they're horny, you know?

Michael Kosta 11:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:51 Once it starts getting warm out, they start getting-

Michael Kosta 11:53 Retarded deer.

Joe Rogan 11:53 ... goofy.

Michael Kosta 11:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:53 And then when you get cold, like around November-

Michael Kosta 11:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:56 ... that's when it really kicks in. Like if you're in Pennsylvania or Iowa-

Michael Kosta 11:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:00 Oh my God, I visited my friend John in Iowa and I'm driving down the road and every 15 seconds, you're slamming on your brakes.

Michael Kosta 12:06 You're slamming... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:06 Because something's darting near the road.

Michael Kosta 12:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:09 They're all over the place.

Michael Kosta 12:09 So they're horny and looking.

Joe Rogan 12:11 Yes.

Michael Kosta 12:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:11 They're also getting chased.

Michael Kosta 12:13 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 12:13 So the bucks are chasing the females and the females are just running out into traffic-

Michael Kosta 12:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:17 ... and the bucks are following them, which bang, bang.

Michael Kosta 12:19 I mean, this is like men...... at night.

Narrator 12:22 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 12:22 Yeah, sa- mu- n-

Joe Rogan 12:23 Sixth Street, where are my closest?

Michael Kosta 12:25 (laughs)

Narrator 12:25 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 12:26 Same thing.

Joe Rogan 12:26 Don't drive fast-

Michael Kosta 12:27 But, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:27 That's why the road is closed on the weekends. They don't want people driving-

Michael Kosta 12:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:30 ... down Sixth Street with all these horny i- idiots.

Michael Kosta 12:32 I love that they closed that, though. That's good. I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 12:35 It is great.

Michael Kosta 12:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:36 Um, but it, what scares me is, like, what happened in New Orleans-

Michael Kosta 12:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 12:40 ... where they, they have these roads where only people-

Michael Kosta 12:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:44 ... walk down and everyone knows it, and this psycho decides to kill a bunch of people. It's crazy that you have to think that way, but, I mean, there should be some sort of retractable post that they can pull up.

Michael Kosta 12:55 Wasn't there for that one, and it didn't-

Joe Rogan 12:57 It wasn't up.

Michael Kosta 12:57 ... it wasn't up.

Joe Rogan 12:58 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 12:58 In New York, you know, it's a big concrete slab. I was in France last year, uh, and they had these huge flower pots with beautiful flowers in it. And I said, "You know, this is the New York version, is a huge concrete slab that says NYPD on it."

Joe Rogan 13:14 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 13:14 And this is the French version, which was this enormous, beautiful flower pot. I go, that's, now that's serving a function and also beautiful.

Joe Rogan 13:21 Yeah. Well, the French know how to do things right.

Michael Kosta 13:22 They know how to do it. They know how to do it.

Joe Rogan 13:23 Yeah, they, they party. They know how to party.

Michael Kosta 13:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:26 They drink a lot of wine. They stay thin somehow or another, which is odd. Like, I hope RFK Jr. figures that out.

Michael Kosta 13:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:32 How the fuck-

Michael Kosta 13:33 It seems to be full butter all, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:33 ... I wanna know how the Italians are so thin.

Michael Kosta 13:36 All the time.

Joe Rogan 13:36 I go to Italy, and-

Michael Kosta 13:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:38 ... it d- it's also, like, it's the cl- the standard cliche, but it is true. You go there, you can eat the food, and it doesn't affect you the same way. It's like, what-

Michael Kosta 13:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:44 And we don't even think twice about it. We come back here and still order pizza and still feel like shit. If I eat a pizza here, I feel so bloated. I ate a pizza in Italy last summer, and I, I ate the whole pizza too.

Michael Kosta 13:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:55 The whole margherita pizza. I ate the whole fucking thing. And I was like, I just would j- just resign myself to, like, the thud of it hitting-

Michael Kosta 14:03 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 14:03 ... my digestive tract-

Michael Kosta 14:05 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 14:05 ... and, like, the, feeling like I'm on Dramamine just, like uh.

Michael Kosta 14:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:08 I have resigned myself. I'm like, "I'm eating pizza. Fucking I'm, I'm in Italy."

Michael Kosta 14:11 This is what's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 14:12 "Let's just do it." Nothing. Never came.

Michael Kosta 14:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Never came. Ate a whole pizza. I was like this the rest of the day. I was like, "This is crazy." I'm not even, like-

Michael Kosta 14:18 Brisket.

Joe Rogan 14:19 ... sludgy.

Michael Kosta 14:19 Brisket crushes me.

Joe Rogan 14:21 Oh, Terry Black's will put you down, son.

Michael Kosta 14:23 I mean (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 14:24 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 14:24 I mean, I had, uh, I, I was in Houston. Steve Byrne was at the other club. He went to get lunch. Yeah, of course, we go get brisket. I went back to hotel. I slept for, like, three and a half hours.

Joe Rogan 14:34 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 14:34 I mean, it is very delicious.

Joe Rogan 14:35 Did you have sides, though?

Michael Kosta 14:36 I don't, I don't remember what we were doing.

Joe Rogan 14:37 I bet you did. I bet you had sides.

Michael Kosta 14:38 You think it was the sides that did it?

Joe Rogan 14:39 Yeah, I think it's mostly, um, the starches and, you know, uh, the, the-

Michael Kosta 14:44 Yeah, okay.

Joe Rogan 14:45 ... the carbs. It's mostly like macaroni salad.

Michael Kosta 14:47 It's fatty, delicious meat.

Joe Rogan 14:49 So good.

Michael Kosta 14:49 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:50 Te- Terry Black's in town is my favorite.

Michael Kosta 14:53 Okay, that's the spot? Okay.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Oh, my good- they have a beef rib that is the most preposterous thing.

Michael Kosta 14:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:56 You pick the bone up, and the rib slides off the bone.

Michael Kosta 15:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:00 I mean, and when you slice into it, it's just juicy, fatty, smoky. (smacks lips)

Michael Kosta 15:06 Why is the meat falling off the bone such an important des-

Joe Rogan 15:09 'Cause it's so tender.

Michael Kosta 15:09 ... okay, copy that.

Joe Rogan 15:09 It means it's been slow cooked perfectly. They have a thing where you want your brisket to fold but not break.

Michael Kosta 15:16 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:16 So, they take a slice of brisket and they put it over their hand and if it breaks off-

Michael Kosta 15:20 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:20 ... you fucked up.

Michael Kosta 15:21 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:21 You've made your, a mushy brisket. But you want it where it's just folding-

Michael Kosta 15:25 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 15:25 ... you know, like a thick cloth. And then-

Michael Kosta 15:27 There's, there's a life metaphor there too.

Joe Rogan 15:29 Brisket, you want it right out too. You want it, like, right after they slice it. You don't wanna wait on brisket.

Michael Kosta 15:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:34 You wanna eat it right... You don't wanna eat it before it's w- well, you wanna eat it while it's still warm. Look at that. See the fold?

Michael Kosta 15:39 Oh, there's the fold.

Joe Rogan 15:39 That guy's got his finger.

Michael Kosta 15:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:41 That's a, that's a perfectly cooked brisket right there. That's it.

Michael Kosta 15:44 Dude, I learn-

Joe Rogan 15:45 Oh.

Michael Kosta 15:45 Every time I'm here, I learn. I remember the last time, dude, we, w- we were talking Italian billiards, and I didn't even realize it was a different billiards.

Joe Rogan 15:53 Oh, they have a bunch of different billiards.

Michael Kosta 15:54 Yeah, but, I mean, uh, that's funny. I never had any idea about that brisket, but...

Joe Rogan 15:59 You know, it was all originally Germans.

Michael Kosta 16:02 (sighs) That, that would do the brisket stuff?

Joe Rogan 16:04 Germans who came over through Texas.

Michael Kosta 16:05 Okay.

Joe Rogan 16:05 Like, Fredericksburg is one of the hubs of it. It's all a bunch of Germans-

Michael Kosta 16:09 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:09 ... who came over here, and they made smoked sausages and so they came over here, and the brisket became a thing because brisket was not a choice cut. It was a, a thing that they would throw away.

Michael Kosta 16:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 16:19 Like, you wanted the steaks.

Michael Kosta 16:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:20 You wanted a T-bone.

Michael Kosta 16:21 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:21 You want... So, they would take the brisket, and they just figured out, like, if you just slowly cook it, you render it down and break down all the toughness of it, and at the end, you have this delicious, tender, smoked (smacks lips) perfection.

Michael Kosta 16:36 It puts me to sleep, but it's, it's delicious.

Joe Rogan 16:37 They know how to do it here, man.

Michael Kosta 16:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:39 They, they make the best fucking brisket on Earth right here. Uh, Terry Black's, Franklin's, La Barbecue, there's, like, a bunch of spots in town.

Michael Kosta 16:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:46 What's it, QB Barbecues? That's the Egyptian joint that I went to with, um, with, uh, Action Bronson. That place is insane.

Michael Kosta 16:52 Oh, man. Having a meal with him would be super fun.

Joe Rogan 16:55 KB?

Narrator 16:56 KG.

Joe Rogan 16:57 KG, KG Barbecue. So, this gentleman came from Egypt and, uh, he was, uh, like a finance guy, I think, in Egypt. He was just working a regular job, came over here, fell in love with brisket. Decided to just-

Michael Kosta 17:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:08 ... open up his own barbecue shop. And so this guy makes these incredible recipes with, like, Egyptian and, and Middle Eastern spices.

Michael Kosta 17:18 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 17:18 But with Texas barbecue. Oh my God, it was so good. It was so good, and he-

Michael Kosta 17:24 Cool story.

Joe Rogan 17:24 ... he's blowing up now. And he's just a super nice guy too.

Michael Kosta 17:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:28 Just, like, I love when someone does that. It's like, "Fuck this job." I'm, I'm, I'm doing, I'm want... Well, you know what I wanna do? I wanna, I wanna feed people. I wanna make brisket, awesome brisket. I wanna make a food truck. And this guy, it becomes so popular so quickly that this guy has, like, a real business now, and he's got a, a restaurant. He's opening up a second one, I believe.

Michael Kosta 17:46 That was my favorite part of living in Los Angeles. It's easy to make fun of LA for good reason, but for the most part, a lot of people were betting on themselves-

Joe Rogan 17:56 Right.

Michael Kosta 17:56 ... and the talent they had.

Joe Rogan 17:57 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 17:58 Not everyone's... But I do love that. I always appreciated that.

Joe Rogan 18:00 Yeah, I like living in a place where people are definitely going for something-

Michael Kosta 18:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:04 ... and taking chances.

Michael Kosta 18:04 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:05 The problem with LA is that it also becomes attached with, uh, what is the engine that gets you to where you wanna go? And sometimes that engine is, like, pure narcissism.

Michael Kosta 18:15 Yeah, or fame.

Joe Rogan 18:16 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 18:16 Like, that's the goal.

Joe Rogan 18:17 Fame.

Michael Kosta 18:17 Most of the time-

Joe Rogan 18:17 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 18:17 ... it's fame.

Joe Rogan 18:19 Which fuels the narcissism.

Michael Kosta 18:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:20 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 18:20 But, um, I think a more interesting question is-... how do we find the thing that we're meant to do? That E- Egyptian Finance Man found that brisket is his calling. That's fascinating.

Joe Rogan 18:33 In his 30s.

Michael Kosta 18:34 In his 30s, right.

Joe Rogan 18:34 You know, with a career.

Michael Kosta 18:35 Right, right. With a career. Making money, having healthcare.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 18:38 Still decided to give it up.

Joe Rogan 18:39 Living in Egypt, by the way.

Michael Kosta 18:41 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:41 It's not even close to Austin, Texas. And he comes here not... He doesn't just decide to make barbecue, he decides to make barbecue in the home of barbecue.

Michael Kosta 18:48 I mean, the place, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:50 Yeah. He's like, "Fuck it, if you wanna learn jujitsu, go to Brazil."

Michael Kosta 18:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:53 He just, he went right to the heart of it all.

Michael Kosta 18:55 I remember I was coaching tennis at University of Michigan. I was making $31,000 a year and I go, "I think I can make this in comedy. If I'm gonna get paid like shit, let me at least do what I want."

Joe Rogan 19:07 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 19:07 So of course, the first year I did comedy, I made whatever, $6,000 or whatever. But I think often how much harder that would have been if I was making $100,000.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Right.

Michael Kosta 19:17 You know, it's, it's... Because I was poor, let's be poor and pick the thing I wanna be doing.

Joe Rogan 19:22 Oh, 100%.

Michael Kosta 19:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:23 But that's the thing about youth.

Michael Kosta 19:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:25 Youth is filled with... If you're 47 years old and you decide that you need to change careers-

Michael Kosta 19:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:31 ... and you're gonna be a folk singer and you have a family-

Michael Kosta 19:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:33 ... like what are you talking about?

Michael Kosta 19:34 Yeah, I mean... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:35 You have a Volvo, you have a fucking mortgage, you idiot.

Michael Kosta 19:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:37 Like, you have to go to work. You have to go to work. If you're gonna make folk songs, you're gonna make them on the two hours you have for yourself on the weekend-

Michael Kosta 19:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:45 ... when everybody else is out of the house.

Michael Kosta 19:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:48 You don't have any time for that.

Michael Kosta 19:49 What, is it true that Rodney Dangerfield found comedy so late like that?

Joe Rogan 19:53 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 19:53 That's nuts.

Joe Rogan 19:53 Well, Rodney did comedy and then quit, but kept writing-

Michael Kosta 19:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:56 ... and was selling aluminum siding.

Michael Kosta 19:58 Right, that's what I remember of that story.

Joe Rogan 20:00 And then remade it when he was like 46.

Michael Kosta 20:02 That's fucking awesome story.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Yeah. How about Schimmel? Schimmel didn't even start till he was 36...

Michael Kosta 20:08 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:08 ... which I thought was crazy.

Michael Kosta 20:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:09 I remember when I heard, 'cause I was a giant Schimmel fan.

Michael Kosta 20:11 Okay.

Joe Rogan 20:12 And then, when I had heard that he started when he was 36-

Michael Kosta 20:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:14 ... I was like, "What?" I didn't think you could do that.

Michael Kosta 20:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:17 I thought you had to start when you were like 21.

Michael Kosta 20:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Or you had no chance.

Michael Kosta 20:21 Yeah. I remember starting at 27 and wondering if it was too late. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:24 Right, isn't that crazy?

Michael Kosta 20:26 Is that, is that... Or maybe it was 25, I forget about-

Joe Rogan 20:28 I wish I started at 27.

Michael Kosta 20:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:29 Because when I was 21, I was such a moron.

Michael Kosta 20:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:32 I just, I had no opinions on anything.

Michael Kosta 20:34 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 20:34 So all my jokes were basically about sex, it was like sex-

Michael Kosta 20:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:37 ... and relationships.

Michael Kosta 20:38 Where were you at age 21?

Joe Rogan 20:39 Boston.

Michael Kosta 20:40 Boston, okay.

Joe Rogan 20:41 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 20:41 That's right, you were in... I was gonna say, 'cause you were at least in a good comedy scene.

Joe Rogan 20:45 Oh.

Michael Kosta 20:45 You could see good comedy.

Joe Rogan 20:46 It was a great comedy scene.

Michael Kosta 20:47 Yes, yes, yeah, you've talked about that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:49 It was the best comedy scene. It was the best comedy scene, because it was a comedy scene that had world-class comedians-

Michael Kosta 20:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:56 ... that the rest of the country didn't know about.

Michael Kosta 20:58 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 20:58 So it was a cheat code. It was like you're in a gym and you're sparring with world-class fighters, like world championship caliber fighters that the rest of the world hasn't seen yet.

Michael Kosta 21:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:06 And that emerges sometimes in fight gyms.

Michael Kosta 21:08 For sure.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Like you have a bunch of like elite fighters and then all of a sudden there's three world champions in this gym like two years later.

Michael Kosta 21:13 Yep, yep.

Joe Rogan 21:14 Like, that's what it was like in Boston because there was these guys that were... The Steve Sweeneys and the Don Gavins, who are as good as anybody that's ever done comedy.

Michael Kosta 21:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:23 And no one knew who they were-

Michael Kosta 21:24 Yep.

Joe Rogan 21:24 ... outside of Boston.

Michael Kosta 21:25 Yep.

Joe Rogan 21:25 And you get to see them every night just murdering.

Michael Kosta 21:28 Were... Was their drive to get out?

Joe Rogan 21:31 No.

Michael Kosta 21:31 It was to make money, stay there, um-

Joe Rogan 21:34 Do coke and play golf. (laughs)

Michael Kosta 21:35 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:38 Those guys were partying.

Michael Kosta 21:39 Well, they probably, they probably figured... I mean, I remember the documentary about Boston comedy where they said they would pay comics in coke, uh-

Joe Rogan 21:45 They were, it was a totally different kind of comedian.

Michael Kosta 21:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:47 There were these big football player-looking men-

Michael Kosta 21:50 (laughs) Right.

Joe Rogan 21:51 ... who were rowdy, who partied all the time.

Michael Kosta 21:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:53 They were all heavy drinkers.

Michael Kosta 21:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:55 They all played golf. They were all animals.

Michael Kosta 21:57 Everyone.

Joe Rogan 21:57 They would go on stage and obliterate.

Michael Kosta 22:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:00 When I say obliterate-

Michael Kosta 22:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:01 ... I mean, these guys would go on stage with a drink in their hand-

Michael Kosta 22:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:04 ... and they had a fucking act that was as hammered as a samurai sword.

Michael Kosta 22:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:08 It was polished and they would just fucking-

Michael Kosta 22:10 From the pause they would take to the eyebrow raise, all that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:13 Ugh, everything. And a lot of it was like local references.

Michael Kosta 22:16 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:17 Like local Boston stuff and these... They would bury these out-of-town comedians.

Michael Kosta 22:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:22 I saw them bury B- Billy Crystal one night.

Michael Kosta 22:24 Oh, my god. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:25 Bury him, bury. Death, death. Satan was nipping at his heels and dragging him down into the netherworld. It was horrible. He was in hell.

Michael Kosta 22:33 Uh, I feel like when I started comedy, drinking was still big, it was big. Now, I meet all the young comics and everybody's sober or they're thinking more about all the different facets. But when I started, there wasn't YouTube yet.

Joe Rogan 22:47 Right.

Michael Kosta 22:47 Comics talked shit in the green room a lot, terrible.

Joe Rogan 22:50 Yep.

Michael Kosta 22:51 Uh, I went and did Yuck Yucks in Vancouver recently. In the green room, there's a sign up that says, "We don't harass people in the green room." We-

Joe Rogan 22:58 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 22:58 And I'm like, "This is different. This is different," you know.

Joe Rogan 23:02 Well, Canada's just on another level with their wokeness.

Michael Kosta 23:05 Canada's on, Ca- Canada's on another level, but, um, I remember-

Joe Rogan 23:08 Come back to us, Canada.

Michael Kosta 23:10 I, (laughs) I remember-

Joe Rogan 23:11 Come back.

Michael Kosta 23:11 ... driving down the road in Vancouver and there's all these people just lining up. And I go, "What's going on?" And they said, "Oh, well, th- they're lining up for the bus that's about to come." And I'm like, now, that's, that is, that's Canadian. I mean it, like-

Joe Rogan 23:25 They're so polite.

Michael Kosta 23:25 They're waiting, they know where the bus will be and they're lining up. That is not how it works in Brooklyn.

Joe Rogan 23:29 And then before they get on the bus, they give their land acknowledgement.

Michael Kosta 23:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:34 (laughs) Before they step on the bus.

Michael Kosta 23:35 Uh, do you think that comedy with the polish, the local r- I mean, it feels like comedy's taken a different turn now.

Joe Rogan 23:44 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 23:44 Now it's if a bit is kind of working, we post it. It's up, it's not polished.

Joe Rogan 23:48 Yeah. Well, there's some of that.

Michael Kosta 23:49 And I miss some of that. I miss some of that.

Joe Rogan 23:51 There's some of that, but there's still guys, you know, like Louie who don't do that.

Michael Kosta 23:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:56 And Attell doesn't do that.

Michael Kosta 23:57 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:58 It's like I get for young guys coming up, it's a very good way to develop an audience. Like there's guys that have a clip, the clip goes viral on TikTok, all of a sudden they're selling out shows everywhere. Like a guy like Ralph Barboza.

Michael Kosta 24:09 Yep, yep.

Joe Rogan 24:09 He's a funny guy. Gets a funny bit, it gets put up, bam, all of a sudden he's headlining all over the country and it happened to him like that.

Michael Kosta 24:16 He was opening for me in Dallas.... before any of that. And, you know, y- you always watch the opener. And normally, I watch the opener like this, (muted) like, "God, this is just... This is just-"

Joe Rogan 24:26 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 24:26 "... Is this what I have to go up after?"

Narrator 24:28 (laughs) Be cleaned up.

Michael Kosta 24:28 "Why didn't I bring my own guy?" You know, whatever.

Joe Rogan 24:30 Right.

Michael Kosta 24:30 And I'm sitting in the green room and I'm going, "Oh, that's a good bit. Oh, that's a fun... Oh, the crowd's going da, da, da." And I'm going, "This, this guy's got it."

Joe Rogan 24:37 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 24:37 And then six months later, I was, like, watching his special, right? Or it wasn't, maybe n- a year later. But yeah, I mean, that's, that, that's a great example. He's, he's a funny dude. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:46 Yeah. It's a great example of what can be done with social media today. You know, and then there's these guys-

Michael Kosta 24:52 There's a lot of bad ones too.

Joe Rogan 24:52 ... like from Kill Tony where they do one minute. And a lot of these one-minute clips get put into reels, and then these guys are getting huge responses for this. And now they're doing the Killers of Kill Tony where they're selling out these huge places. So it's, it's amazing what can be done. But-

Michael Kosta 25:11 But they don't have an act.

Joe Rogan 25:13 They don't... Some of them do.

Michael Kosta 25:14 Some of them don't.

Joe Rogan 25:14 Like Ari Matti is 12 years in.

Michael Kosta 25:16 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 25:16 You know, he was doing standup in Australia.

Michael Kosta 25:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:18 I actually worked with him in Australia-

Michael Kosta 25:20 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:20 ... in like 2016-

Michael Kosta 25:23 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:23 ... I think.

Michael Kosta 25:24 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Somewhere around then, 2015, somewhere around then. Um, so Ari's been at it for a long time, so he's really good. He's a really solid comic. So he's like headlining now because of this, and like-

Michael Kosta 25:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:35 But there's guys that are in it four or five years, and they don't really have an act yet, but they have a couple of good jokes. But they'll figure it out.

Michael Kosta 25:42 They'll figure it out.

Joe Rogan 25:42 They'll figure it out. But you don't wanna figure all of it out on video in front of the whole world.

Michael Kosta 25:47 That's what it is now.

Joe Rogan 25:48 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 25:48 I'm so thankful that as soon as I could, I posted my first set on the internet, but that, that was seven years in. It didn't even, you couldn't even do it.

Joe Rogan 25:57 Right, right, right.

Michael Kosta 25:58 I would have done it too soon. I mean, it still was too soon, but...

Joe Rogan 26:01 But it's okay.

Michael Kosta 26:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:02 You know, look, you go back and watch my first episodes of this podcast, they were fucking terrible.

Michael Kosta 26:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:06 I encourage everybody to go back and watch them.

Michael Kosta 26:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:08 They're dog shit. You wouldn't, nobody would watch them.

Michael Kosta 26:09 Where, where does one watch the first...

Joe Rogan 26:11 Oh, I bet they're on YouTube.

Michael Kosta 26:12 They're on somewhere, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:12 They're on everywhere. They're somewhere, it's everywhere. But like, when we first started doing it, I mean, there was no production value.

Michael Kosta 26:19 No.

Joe Rogan 26:19 It suc-... I was boring, you know? And then you figure out-

Michael Kosta 26:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:21 ... how to do it. It's like standup.

Michael Kosta 26:22 It is.

Joe Rogan 26:23 It's everything else. Go back and watch someone's first amateur fight. They, they looked-

Michael Kosta 26:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:26 ... terrible.

Michael Kosta 26:28 It is-

Joe Rogan 26:28 You know, they make mistakes.

Michael Kosta 26:29 It is very beautiful to watch, um, people get better at stuff.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 26:35 There's a, a female tennis player right now named, uh, Andreeva. I forget how to pronounce her first name. But I just watched her at Indian Wells. And I saw her four years ago at the French Open. Everyone was saying, watching, "Uh, did you wanna watch Andreeva?" And I'm like, "This is a child that doesn't know how to play the sport. Why are we talking about her?" I watched her last week, an, uh, absolute nightmare of a beast, you know, hitting the ball, the movement, her shape. And it was like, oh, every day she got better-

Joe Rogan 27:03 Mm.

Michael Kosta 27:04 ... for four... And to see that was nuts. And I always go back and watch old, oh my God, Novak Djokovic's first Grand Slam when he's got like the worst haircut in the baggy shirt and the backhand was looking different. Now just it's just amazing to see how these athletes evolve. And I'm sure it's the same for fighters, and you mentioned it was.

Joe Rogan 27:20 Sure, yeah.

Michael Kosta 27:21 Yeah, I love seeing that, love seeing that.

Joe Rogan 27:22 Yeah, well, tennis is like all things, right? It's you-

Michael Kosta 27:26 Yes.

Joe Rogan 27:26 ... when you really do it, then you can truly appreciate people who are great.

Michael Kosta 27:31 Yes.

Joe Rogan 27:31 Y- like there's, there's so many things that are like, like in martial arts, it's a big, like, especially when things go to the ground. A lot of times people don't understand how difficult a specific maneuver is.

Michael Kosta 27:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:41 Like how he did that-

Michael Kosta 27:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:43 ... how he baited him with that.

Michael Kosta 27:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:44 And then, uh, you have to like... Well, uh, there's certain things I watch and I'm like, "Oh my God, does everybody appreciate this?"

Michael Kosta 27:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:49 That was insane. That was insane.

Michael Kosta 27:51 It's a language.

Joe Rogan 27:51 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 27:52 It's a language. And if you don't speak the lang-... I mean, when-

Joe Rogan 27:54 Right.

Michael Kosta 27:54 I don't speak MMA language, but that's where good commentators come in. You... Oh, they're excited for a reason.

Joe Rogan 28:01 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 28:01 That, that was something that we don't see very often, and that helps me. I assume that's how it works for tennis people that aren't... or for non-tennis people when they're watching tennis, 'cause it's-

Joe Rogan 28:09 Oh, I'm sure. But I think only a person like you who is a professional could appreciate the technique involved-

Michael Kosta 28:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:14 ... and like the changing of Djokovic's back string.

Michael Kosta 28:17 Yep, yep.

Joe Rogan 28:17 All that.

Michael Kosta 28:17 I mean, I, I pause it. I make my wife come into the living room and I say, "Watch this." And she'll watch and she'll go, "Th- that was good."

Joe Rogan 28:24 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 28:24 And I go, "Are you even seeing what he did? He did a short slice to pull him in," and then he went... And it's like, but it's a language that I speak.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Uh-huh.

Michael Kosta 28:32 And this is life, man. Picking these little things we have that we get passionate about is just-

Joe Rogan 28:37 Yes.

Michael Kosta 28:37 ... awesome.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Yes.

Michael Kosta 28:38 And as I've gotten older, I've, I used to shy away from tennis a little bit. It's an elite sport. It's got its own history. And now I'm just like, I fucking love it. I love that I'm good at it. I love that I know it. It's fun to-

Joe Rogan 28:48 The wokies pushed you away from tennis? (laughs)

Michael Kosta 28:50 No, no, the wookies have pushed me away from... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:51 It sounds like it did. (laughs)

Michael Kosta 28:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:52 It sounds like it was a little too elite. It was a little too, uh-

Michael Kosta 28:55 Uh-

Joe Rogan 28:55 ... country club.

Michael Kosta 28:57 It definitely-

Joe Rogan 28:57 A little too segregated.

Michael Kosta 28:58 It definitely is, is those things. Um, no, I think what happens-

Joe Rogan 29:02 It doesn't have to be.

Michael Kosta 29:03 It doesn't have to be. And that's why-

Joe Rogan 29:04 Yeah, it's just a sport.

Michael Kosta 29:05 ... Serena, Serena and Venus were such a, a, a fun, uh, fuck up to the sport.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Do you know the Freeway Ricky Ross story?

Michael Kosta 29:11 No.

Joe Rogan 29:12 Freeway Ricky Ross was a guy-

Michael Kosta 29:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:15 ... who... You know Rick Ross, the rapper?

Michael Kosta 29:16 Yes.

Joe Rogan 29:16 He named himself after a famous cocaine dealer-

Michael Kosta 29:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:19 ... in, in Los Angeles.

Michael Kosta 29:20 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:20 Called Freeway Ricky Ross.

Michael Kosta 29:21 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:22 Freeway Ricky Ross was selling cocaine unbeknownst to him for the CIA-

Michael Kosta 29:26 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:26 ... to fund the Contras versus Sandinistas.

Michael Kosta 29:28 Okay. Yeah, so this is the Cocaine Cowboy type stuff, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 29:31 Type stuff.

Michael Kosta 29:32 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:32 But this was about Oliver North.

Michael Kosta 29:34 Okay.

Joe Rogan 29:34 This was all about funneling money-

Michael Kosta 29:36 Yep.

Joe Rogan 29:36 ... into the, the war.

Michael Kosta 29:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:38 Um, he was a tennis player, like an elite tennis player.

Michael Kosta 29:41 That's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 29:41 Couldn't even read.

Michael Kosta 29:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:43 Couldn't read.

Michael Kosta 29:43 Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:44 And was, uh, uh, this really good tennis player-

Michael Kosta 29:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:46 ... who, uh, that was like what he was... his hope for a scholarship-

Michael Kosta 29:50 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 29:51 And gets involved, starts selling cocaine, starts selling a lot of cocaine.

Michael Kosta 29:54 I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 29:54 Doesn't know wh- how he's so successful-

Michael Kosta 29:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:55 ... because he's worked with the CIA.

Michael Kosta 29:57 CIA is helping him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:58 Goes to jail, learns how to read when he's in jail-

Michael Kosta 30:01 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 30:01 ... becomes a lawyer in jail. Gets himself off because they tried him on three strikes-

Michael Kosta 30:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:06 ... but they did it for one incident. So they did it incorrectly. And so he gets out of jail.

Michael Kosta 30:11 So incarceration educated him-

Joe Rogan 30:13 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 30:14 ... to the point where he got himself out.

Joe Rogan 30:15 But his origins are as a tennis player.

Michael Kosta 30:17 As a tennis player.

Joe Rogan 30:18 He's a tennis player, like a really good tennis player.

Michael Kosta 30:20 ... you know, Menéndez brothers, excellent tennis players. Th- one of 'em played at UCLA, I-

Joe Rogan 30:24 Maybe not the best example.

Michael Kosta 30:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:27 (laughs) One guy's just-

Michael Kosta 30:27 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 30:28 I'm talking about a guy from South Central LA who can't read.

Michael Kosta 30:30 True, true. Uh-

Joe Rogan 30:31 To s- just to say it's not a, necessarily an elite sport.

Michael Kosta 30:34 (laughs) An elite sport, that's what you're saying. I-

Joe Rogan 30:35 It doesn't have to be. It's just a sport.

Michael Kosta 30:37 I agree.

Joe Rogan 30:37 And all you need is a court. You mean, it seems pretty cheap.

Michael Kosta 30:40 On-

Joe Rogan 30:40 You need a flat surface, a tennis racket, and a ball. Like, let's go.

Michael Kosta 30:43 The kids that were beating me when I was a pro played on a dirt court with a rope tied between two sticks.

Joe Rogan 30:51 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 30:51 These, these South American and Russian player, is n- it was not a money sport. It was not a sport of money. It was a sport of movement and com- competition. And because there's no clock, you can have as much time as you want to figure out and beat down your opponent. So, that gets a certain type of athlete. You know?

Joe Rogan 31:11 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 31:11 I, I, I think it was Jimmy Connors who said, "I didn't lose, I just, I just ran out of time in that match."

Joe Rogan 31:16 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 31:16 "I would've, I would've figured it out."

Joe Rogan 31:18 Right.

Michael Kosta 31:18 But unfortunately, he beat me. Um, yeah, what happened with me, I was, I was t- was trying to be a standup comic that I was trying to, uh, so badly that I was trying to remove the athletic stigma. Even now, you sometimes say tennis and people kinda back up. But as I got better at comedy and more confident in my abilities, I said, "Why am I shying away from the sport that I love and that is such a foundational part of me?"

Joe Rogan 31:45 Isn't that weird that you felt like you had to move away from athletics in order to fit in in comedy?

Michael Kosta 31:50 That's probably a, a more succinct way to say it.

Joe Rogan 31:52 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 31:52 And the new book that's out right now, Lucky Loser, is all about how I'm now embracing this tennis because it gave me all the skills to actually be good in comedy.

Joe Rogan 32:02 Of course.

Michael Kosta 32:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:03 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 32:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:03 Discipline, realizing like the tennis player that you're talking about, that if you do put in the work over time, the results will pay off and you'll see it.

Michael Kosta 32:11 And you're alone.

Joe Rogan 32:13 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 32:13 Figure that shit out-

Joe Rogan 32:14 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 32:14 ... by yourself.

Joe Rogan 32:15 Yep.

Michael Kosta 32:15 You're alone, and you're gonna have-

Joe Rogan 32:16 No teammates.

Michael Kosta 32:17 ... success and failure.

Joe Rogan 32:19 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 32:19 When I was n-, when I was eight years old, I lost in the finals of the Ann Arbor Junior Open, and I realized I was gonna lose, and I started crying on the court. And my older brother runs on the court and holds me like a child.

Joe Rogan 32:33 Aw.

Michael Kosta 32:33 I'm, I'm, I'm crying. There's a picture of that in the book. Now, as a parent, I'm going, "Who the fuck took that picture?" Right? I'm just a kid crying and my brother's holding me-

Joe Rogan 32:42 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 32:43 ... as my parents taking that picture. But-

Joe Rogan 32:44 They did it for the Gram. (laughs)

Michael Kosta 32:46 (laughs) They did it for the Gram. But man, as a comic, holy shit, we've all felt like that.

Joe Rogan 32:51 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 32:51 Oh, man, it's so personal when you, when you-

Joe Rogan 32:53 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 32:53 ... fail as a comic, so.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Well, it's important to learn how to lose at things-

Michael Kosta 32:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:57 ... at everything.

Michael Kosta 32:58 Yes.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Like, if you marry your high school sweetheart and you guys never broke up and that's the-

Michael Kosta 33:01 Yep.

Joe Rogan 33:01 Like, you probably missed at many gr- f- cr- congratulations on achieving-

Michael Kosta 33:06 (laughs) Right.

Joe Rogan 33:06 ... the most difficult thing humanly possible-

Michael Kosta 33:08 Staying together through-

Joe Rogan 33:09 ... that everybody admires. Right?

Michael Kosta 33:10 Yes, yes.

Joe Rogan 33:10 When you meet a couple in like, uh, I have two friends of mine that have actually been dating since they were like 16 years old.

Michael Kosta 33:16 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 33:16 And now they're married with kids in their 40s. Congratulations. But I think there's some value-

Michael Kosta 33:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:22 ... in getting your ass kicked.

Michael Kosta 33:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:24 I think there's some value in a girl saying, "No."

Michael Kosta 33:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:27 "I don't even like you."

Michael Kosta 33:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:28 Like, "No." (laughs)

Michael Kosta 33:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:29 "You don't like me?" You know, I think it's good, getting dumped is good. I think all that's valuable. I think you have to learn. And I don't think you learn by winning all the time, and I don't think you learn if something's easy, which is why really handsome and really beautiful people are often ridiculous in the way they behave.

Michael Kosta 33:47 That's true.

Joe Rogan 33:48 Because they have five aces.

Michael Kosta 33:50 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 33:50 And, you know, and they didn't earn them. They were just born-

Michael Kosta 33:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:52 ... with five aces.

Michael Kosta 33:53 So, how do you instill grit, toughness in a generation? As a parent, I see my five-year-old struggling.

Joe Rogan 34:02 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 34:02 I oftentimes pop in, "Let me get that for you." You know, she trying to little things, trying to do the buttons on her shirt. That's where we, we gotta ... You know, and I do it for her, and I think, "I shouldn't do it for her." She should be struggling to do this. But this is a big issue right now, right? The younger generation, you hear that word grit.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 34:16 How do we instill that?

Joe Rogan 34:17 Well, sports is a great way to do it.

Michael Kosta 34:18 It's a great way to do it.

Joe Rogan 34:18 It doesn't work with everybody because some people play sports and they come out even cuntier.

Michael Kosta 34:22 (coughs) Or, or-

Joe Rogan 34:22 Or they cut- Yeah, they come out more aggressive or-

Michael Kosta 34:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:25 ... more competitive-

Michael Kosta 34:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:26 ... or more psychotic in their pursuits, and it just like, it alienates everything else in their life.

Michael Kosta 34:30 Or it creates trauma for them. Not real tr- you know, trauma, but-

Joe Rogan 34:33 Or real trauma.

Michael Kosta 34:33 Yeah, yeah. Possibly.

Joe Rogan 34:34 Fucking head trauma-

Michael Kosta 34:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:35 ... if you're playing football.

Michael Kosta 34:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:36 Yeah, there's-

Michael Kosta 34:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:37 I think difficult things are important for kids.

Michael Kosta 34:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:40 It doesn't necessarily have to be that. It could be art, it could be music-

Michael Kosta 34:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:44 It could be something. But I think there's something when you put your attention to something and realize you can get better at this thing and you find yourself in that thing, and you find your potential in that thing that you focus on. It doesn't have to ... It's not necessarily that it has to define you, b- because oftentimes it does, unfortunately.

Michael Kosta 35:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:00 When people are really good at a thing-

Michael Kosta 35:02 True, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:02 ... it becomes the whole essence of who they are as a person.

Michael Kosta 35:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 35:05 But it's a valuable tool for elevating your human potential, and it's also a way that you can quantify effort versus results.

Michael Kosta 35:15 Yup.

Joe Rogan 35:15 And you can do that in sports and games-

Michael Kosta 35:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:18 ... and in, in things, chess and-

Michael Kosta 35:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:19 ... uh, and art, and things that are difficult. Like, you could say like, "I am so much better playing guitar now because I've been playing three hours a day-"

Michael Kosta 35:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:25 "... for six months."

Michael Kosta 35:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:27 "And look at, look what I can do now."

Michael Kosta 35:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:29 "So I know that there's a thi-" And it teaches you that if there's a thing that you really love and you focus on it, that thing, if someone does it for a living, why can't you?

Michael Kosta 35:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:39 Why can't you?

Michael Kosta 35:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:40 Why do I have to be in this fucking bullshit office, in this cubicle with these stupid papers-

Michael Kosta 35:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:45 ... that I don't give a shit about that I have to fill out for this company that I don't give a fuck about? This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry, especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control. It goes through payroll, your accountant, or your tax consultant, and countless other data centers on its way to the IRS. Any of them can expose you to identity theft because they all have the info on your W-2, just the ticket for criminals to steal your identity. It's no wonder last year, the IRS reported tax fraud due to identity theft went up 20%.You need LifeLock. They monitor millions of data points per second and alert you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's US-based restoration specialists will fix it, backed by the Million Dollar Protection Package, and restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Get LifeLock protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use the promo code JoeRogan or go to lifelock.com/joerogan for 40% off. Terms apply.

Michael Kosta 37:11 I, I agree with you. Some things we will improve upon faster based on our natural abilities. I loved the way DJs used to seamlessly transfer one song to the other, beat matching, whatever that was called. I, I got two, I asked for two turntables for Christmas. I, I obsessed over it. I fucking sucked at it, dude. I c- I couldn't do it.

Narrator 37:37 (laughs)

Michael Kosta 37:37 I st- I mean, I, I, I tried so hard, and then I'm thinking, I pick up this tennis racket and it all kind of clicks very quickly.

Joe Rogan 37:46 Well, you have a good frame for tennis, first of all.

Michael Kosta 37:47 Thank you. Uh-

Joe Rogan 37:48 So you're, you're, uh, tall and long-

Michael Kosta 37:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:50 ... which really helps. You can reach stuff that other people can't reach. Yeah.

Michael Kosta 37:53 You think I don't, you don't think I don't have a good frame for DJing?

Joe Rogan 37:55 Yeah, like you have like a foot more space.

Michael Kosta 37:58 Look at this.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Look how much wider your arm. My arms are pretty long, and y- yours are like a foot more.

Michael Kosta 38:02 Dude, if Pete Sampras did this-

Joe Rogan 38:04 You c-

Michael Kosta 38:04 ... the g- the greatest server-

Joe Rogan 38:05 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 38:05 ... I mean, his ar- I mean, he has ... Uh, uh, uh, don't they say that this is the same height?

Joe Rogan 38:10 I think so.

Michael Kosta 38:10 I think they say that this is your height also.

Joe Rogan 38:12 Oh, it is?

Michael Kosta 38:12 No, it's not really. I mean, that's your wingspan.

Joe Rogan 38:14 Well, I always heard that-

Michael Kosta 38:15 Some people are way long.

Joe Rogan 38:15 ... from here to here is your foot. I saw that on Pretty Woman.

Michael Kosta 38:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:19 From here to here is your foot. (laughs) This is so funny.

Michael Kosta 38:22 But I mean, Pete, Pete had like extra length.

Joe Rogan 38:25 Yes.

Michael Kosta 38:25 And people go, "How did he get the pop on the serve?" It's like, you know, those-

Joe Rogan 38:27 Torque.

Michael Kosta 38:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:28 Like Tommy Hearns with his punches.

Michael Kosta 38:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:30 Tommy Hearns was so long and tall. Like Deontay Wilder is another example.

Michael Kosta 38:34 Okay.

Joe Rogan 38:34 Those long, tall guys, when you have this torque... Like you ever see Deontay Wilder?

Michael Kosta 38:40 No.

Joe Rogan 38:40 He's arguably the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the-

Michael Kosta 38:45 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 38:45 ... history of the heavyweight division. At one point in time, he was like... What is Deontay's record? I think it's like 40 and he's had a few losses recently, but at one point in time, he had like 39 knockouts out of 40 fights.

Michael Kosta 39:01 Jesus. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:01 Which is insane.

Michael Kosta 39:04 And these are professional fighters he's knocking out.

Joe Rogan 39:06 And-

Michael Kosta 39:06 It's not me.

Joe Rogan 39:07 ... he's undersized for the heavyweight division.

Michael Kosta 39:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:09 When he fought Tyson Fury, Tyson Fury is like 260. He was 209. 209.

Michael Kosta 39:15 And he made it to 40 and 0.

Joe Rogan 39:16 40 and 0-

Michael Kosta 39:17 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 39:17 ... and th- 39 of those 40 were knockouts.

Michael Kosta 39:21 Were knockouts.

Joe Rogan 39:21 Look it, everybody, knockout, TKO, m- TKO, KO. He knocked out everybody. And he knock... G- get the v- Luis Ortiz fight. Show them-

Michael Kosta 39:31 For-

Joe Rogan 39:31 ... the Luis Ortiz fight.

Michael Kosta 39:32 Forgive, forgive this extremely ignorant question. When you say knockout, that means like-

Joe Rogan 39:36 Flatline.

Michael Kosta 39:37 ... the guy's done.

Joe Rogan 39:38 Like, yeah.

Michael Kosta 39:38 That's, that's not like the ref calls it. That's a, that's a-

Joe Rogan 39:40 So TKO is what-

Michael Kosta 39:41 TKO.

Joe Rogan 39:41 ... the ref calls it.

Michael Kosta 39:42 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:42 Knockout is like, "It's over." Like you got flatlined.

Michael Kosta 39:45 And these are guys that know how to take hits.

Joe Rogan 39:47 Elite guys.

Michael Kosta 39:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:48 Well, this guy-

Michael Kosta 39:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:49 ... Luis Ortiz was on the Cuban Olympic team. He's a-

Michael Kosta 39:51 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 39:51 ... fucking elite fighter, and he was really durable. And Deon- so Deontay is, you see, he's the one with his back to us.

Michael Kosta 39:57 Yeah.

Narrator 39:57 Yeah. Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 39:57 He's long and tall, but he's not giant. He's not a big guy-

Michael Kosta 40:01 He'd be a good tennis player.

Joe Rogan 40:02 ... in comparison to a lot of these guys. But he, he catches him with a right hand and flattens him. I think this is the first time they fought, Jamie.

Narrator 40:10 Oh, you want the second one?

Joe Rogan 40:11 Yeah, the second one is the KO with one punch. So he, he beat him up in the first fight too, but L- Ortiz-

Michael Kosta 40:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:17 ... is an elite boxer, and Deontay is not the best boxer.

Michael Kosta 40:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:21 He's just a hitter.

Michael Kosta 40:22 Got to hit him. Got to-

Joe Rogan 40:22 And he's just, he's just waiting, waiting, wait- blam!

Michael Kosta 40:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:26 And he hits guys-

Michael Kosta 40:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:27 ... and they're like, "What the fuck?" Here it is. Watch this.

Michael Kosta 40:31 Wow, that-

Narrator 40:32 One, two.

Michael Kosta 40:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:32 Yeah. He just collapses him.

Michael Kosta 40:33 That didn't, it didn't even seem like it was that hard of a hit and-

Joe Rogan 40:36 And this is an elite heavyweight.

Michael Kosta 40:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:38 Show it again. Show it again because it's so crazy. It's just one punch.

Narrator 40:42 ... the priority.

Joe Rogan 40:42 It's just blam.

Michael Kosta 40:42 Jeez.

Narrator 40:43 Might have Wilder hurt. A left to the body by Ortiz.

Joe Rogan 40:46 See, Wilder's just waits, waits, waits.

Narrator 40:48 Ortiz picking up the pace.

Joe Rogan 40:48 It's all waiting. It's not boxing.

Michael Kosta 40:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right, wait-

Joe Rogan 40:51 He's just waiting, waiting for his chance.

Narrator 40:54 Ortiz trying to get-

Michael Kosta 40:54 Look at that record.

Narrator 40:55 ... off the ring, overhand left. Now Wilder needs to get back in the center-

Michael Kosta 41:00 Right here.

Narrator 41:01 ... as King Kong trudges forward.

Michael Kosta 41:03 Plunk.

Narrator 41:03 A right hand-

Michael Kosta 41:03 Unbelievable.

Narrator 41:05 That goes Ortiz!

Joe Rogan 41:05 When you got that kind of power, that is so crazy.

Michael Kosta 41:08 That's crazy. That's hard for us to, uh, it's hard for me to even wrap my head around. I-

Joe Rogan 41:12 See if they show it in the replay because he hits him on the forehead, which is so crazy. Just before that. Watch this.

Michael Kosta 41:18 Right there.

Joe Rogan 41:18 Just before it, Jamie.

Narrator 41:19 Oh, it's gonna show at the-

Joe Rogan 41:20 Okay, here it is. Watch this. He hits him on the forehead, man.

Michael Kosta 41:24 Not punching, waiting, waiting.

Joe Rogan 41:25 So he's just waiting. He's just waiting. He's just pawing at him with his left hand and bang!

Michael Kosta 41:30 Bo- oh my God. Look at that.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Bro. (laughs) But it's all that torque and length and leverage and just God-given power, like nobody has.

Michael Kosta 41:41 Jeez, and the fucking slow motion.

Joe Rogan 41:43 Bro, that is so crazy.

Michael Kosta 41:44 The slow motion camera.

Joe Rogan 41:45 That is so crazy. And look at the torque, look at the wide shoulders and the-

Michael Kosta 41:49 Yes. Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:49 ... timing and the speed. And watch, it just straightens out-

Michael Kosta 41:53 Right there.

Joe Rogan 41:53 ... right on his fucking noggin. Boom!

Michael Kosta 41:57 You know, in these-

Joe Rogan 41:58 And the follow through with the shoulder. Oh my goodness.

Michael Kosta 42:01 In these sports, like mixed martial arts too, i- th- these sports aren't for me because one punch, it's done.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 42:11 Meaning, meaning, I like watching that. Meaning I wouldn't have been a good, uh, uh, athlete in that sport. Tennis-

Joe Rogan 42:18 Why do you think that?

Michael Kosta 42:19 Well, like in tennis, what I love is if you're just bombing aces, after the first set, clean slate. We start all over again.

Joe Rogan 42:29 Right.

Michael Kosta 42:29 And in boxing-... you make one mistake like that, and it's done.

Joe Rogan 42:35 Well, against that guy.

Michael Kosta 42:36 Against that guy.

Joe Rogan 42:36 But that's very unusual. Most guys can't do that.

Michael Kosta 42:38 That's right. They can't do that.

Joe Rogan 42:39 Most guys can hit you pretty hard.

Michael Kosta 42:41 You would take a hard hit-

Joe Rogan 42:41 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 42:41 ... but you could recover.

Joe Rogan 42:42 That's crazy.

Michael Kosta 42:43 That's crazy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:44 That's cra- That, Deontay's like in a world of his own, and i- he's also in a world of his own, again, 'cause he's not big. Like, there's-

Michael Kosta 42:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:50 ... Daniel Dubois-

Michael Kosta 42:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:51 ... who is the, uh, he's, um, b- I forget which division he's the champion of right now, but he's a, a giant heavyweight who knocks everybody out. But he's 255, 260-

Michael Kosta 43:02 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:02 ... built like a tank. Deontay's literally 40-plus pounds lighter than that.

Michael Kosta 43:08 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 43:08 And just one punch, blah!

Michael Kosta 43:10 I liked how we watched a lot of that, and he hadn't even thrown a punch.

Joe Rogan 43:14 He d- He's a hitter.

Michael Kosta 43:14 He's not wasting ... He's a hitter.

Joe Rogan 43:15 He's a hitter.

Michael Kosta 43:16 He's, he's there, he's there to kill you.

Joe Rogan 43:17 He's not gonna outbox you-

Michael Kosta 43:18 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 43:18 ... and be slick. In fact, his movement is sometimes awkward.

Michael Kosta 43:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:22 He's criticized for-

Michael Kosta 43:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:23 ... having bad footwork. His legs looks like sticks.

Michael Kosta 43:26 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:26 He has the skinniest legs you've ever seen in your life.

Michael Kosta 43:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:29 Like, it's crazy.

Michael Kosta 43:29 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:29 Like, you look at his legs-

Michael Kosta 43:30 But he'll fuck you up.

Joe Rogan 43:30 ... and it's like, "How?"

Michael Kosta 43:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:31 How?

Michael Kosta 43:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:32 But the power this guy generates is out of this world.

Michael Kosta 43:35 So, his software during a fight is just constantly trying to find the open for one of these huge punches.

Joe Rogan 43:41 Yep.

Michael Kosta 43:41 That's, that's the whole time-

Joe Rogan 43:42 That's it.

Michael Kosta 43:43 ... he's doing.

Joe Rogan 43:43 He's not boxing you.

Michael Kosta 43:44 Yeah. Right.

Joe Rogan 43:44 I mean, he's boxing kind of-

Michael Kosta 43:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:46 ... but he's really looking for the big one.

Michael Kosta 43:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:48 And you know if that big ones lands, it's nighty-night-

Michael Kosta 43:50 That's f-

Joe Rogan 43:50 ... for everybody.

Michael Kosta 43:51 That's, that's- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:52 The only buddy who's s- able to survive it is Tyson Fury because he's a fucking animal.

Michael Kosta 43:56 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 43:56 And he rose from the dead in the 12th round of their fight, where it looked like Deontay had knocked him out cold. Deontay even went like that at the end of it-

Michael Kosta 44:03 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 44:03 ... 'cause he hit him with a right hand and then a left hook as he was going down, and he went flat on his back-

Michael Kosta 44:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:08 ... and Tyson Fury rose like the Undertaker and got right back and won the rest of the round. But that's just 'cause he's, he's a, that's another very, very rare human being, Tyson Fury, just an animal.

Michael Kosta 44:18 Jesus, that-

Joe Rogan 44:19 Just an animal. One of the greatest boxers of all time, and one of the greatest heavyweights o- without a doubt of all time.

Michael Kosta 44:24 When you get hit like that, there's gotta be an enormous physical pain, duh. But then there also is like, don't you get scared then after a big hit like that?

Joe Rogan 44:35 Well, you get super confused.

Michael Kosta 44:36 You get confused.

Joe Rogan 44:37 'Cause-

Michael Kosta 44:37 'Cause I would get scared.

Joe Rogan 44:38 ... you know, you gotta kinda shake off the cobwebs. Your ears are ringing.

Michael Kosta 44:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Your, your legs don't work right anymore. When you've get knocked down, I only got TKO'd once in a kickboxing fight-

Michael Kosta 44:48 Okay.

Joe Rogan 44:48 ... and ironically, it didn't hurt.

Michael Kosta 44:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 44:51 The punch that hit me just twisted my jaw. He hit me with a left hook-

Michael Kosta 44:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:54 ... and my legs just gave out, like, weep, like, gone.

Michael Kosta 44:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:57 It's the craziest feeling. It's like, it's, it's not like you got hurt. It's like your legs just shut off.

Michael Kosta 45:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:03 Like, he, he clipped me with a left hook that I didn't see in an exchange. And when you get hit on the jaw, something happens in the jaw, and I don't know what it is with the nerves behind your neck, but it just shuts everything off.

Michael Kosta 45:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:16 And you're conscious, which is weird. Like, so it was completely conscious-

Michael Kosta 45:19 It's like they just disconnected the-

Joe Rogan 45:20 ... but my legs just like disconnected-

Michael Kosta 45:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:22 ... and went down, but they, they reconnected right away. And I got up, and I was like, "Oh, no, I'm in trouble."

Michael Kosta 45:26 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 45:27 Like, my, they weren't working good, like everything wasn't working good. And then I got dropped again. He hit me with an uppercut and dropped me, and then the referee stopped the fight. But, uh-

Michael Kosta 45:33 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 45:33 ... totally conscious the whole time. But the feeling that you get when you get hit real hard is real weird. It's like nothing works right anymore.

Michael Kosta 45:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:42 And you gotta get on your bike and try to move around and get everything working again.

Michael Kosta 45:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:45 And it might take 30 seconds before-

Michael Kosta 45:47 And it's that 30 seconds when he's also-

Joe Rogan 45:48 Swarming you.

Michael Kosta 45:48 ... trained to kill you.

Joe Rogan 45:50 Now, in the UFC, it's way more accurate because when you get knocked down, they climb on top of you-

Michael Kosta 45:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:55 ... and beat your fucking brains in-

Michael Kosta 45:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:57 ... or strangle you.

Michael Kosta 45:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:58 Which is really what's supposed to happen.

Michael Kosta 45:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:00 The whole thing-

Michael Kosta 46:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:01 ... of letting someone get up-

Michael Kosta 46:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:02 ... what you're really doing is giving them a chance to get more damage.

Michael Kosta 46:05 That's true.

Joe Rogan 46:06 Because they can recover, but not all the way, you know, sometimes.

Michael Kosta 46:09 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 46:09 Sometimes the guy gets rocked early in a fight, and you can tell for the whole rest of the fight, they're still fucked up. And they're, they're very defensive.

Michael Kosta 46:16 So, it's safer, in your opinion, the way UFC does it, where if you start wobbling, I'm immediately on you trying to kill you. And then it's like th- As opposed to boxing-

Joe Rogan 46:27 I-

Michael Kosta 46:27 ... where they would get you up, and you maybe-

Joe Rogan 46:28 I don't think either one is safe.

Michael Kosta 46:30 Right, okay.

Joe Rogan 46:30 I think it's an unsafe sport. It's as safe as we can make it.

Michael Kosta 46:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:34 We have laws of when you can hit someone.

Michael Kosta 46:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:37 You can't hit them in the back of the head. There's-

Michael Kosta 46:38 Yep.

Joe Rogan 46:39 But it's not safe.

Michael Kosta 46:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:40 It's a very dangerous, very scary sport.

Michael Kosta 46:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:43 But I think, realistically, when someone gets hurt and someone finishes them off on the ground, that's probably less damage than they would've taken-

Michael Kosta 46:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 46:53 ... if you gave them a standing eight count-

Michael Kosta 46:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 46:55 ... dusted their gloves off, made them move forward, and let them go back again and get really mollywopped.

Michael Kosta 47:01 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 47:01 You know, 'cause a lot of times, those are when the real bad KO's come from is when a guy's hurt-

Michael Kosta 47:06 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 47:06 ... and then he stands up and ...

Michael Kosta 47:08 The only thing I can even closely compare this to is being in a car accident.

Joe Rogan 47:12 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 47:13 And I-

Joe Rogan 47:13 Let me show you o- one of the greatest examples of that.

Michael Kosta 47:16 Yes, please.

Joe Rogan 47:16 Alex Pereira, who was, uh, a two-division glory world champion. Pull up Alex Pereira KO's Jason Wilnis. So, he-

Michael Kosta 47:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:26 He's like the most destructive kickboxer in the history of the sport.

Michael Kosta 47:29 Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:30 And he went over to the UFC, became a two-division UFC champion, just lost his title last weekend in a really close fight, great fight. But he hits this guy with a head kick and drops him. And you can tell this guy's fucked.

Michael Kosta 47:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:44 But they give him the standing eight 'cause it's in kickboxing-

Michael Kosta 47:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:45 ... not in MMA.

Michael Kosta 47:46 Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:46 They give him the standing eight count, dust his gloves off, "You okay? Come forward." And then he gets hit with a flying knee on the chin.

Michael Kosta 47:53 Oh.

Joe Rogan 47:53 And just sent into the shadow realm.

Michael Kosta 47:55 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:56 And it didn't, didn't need to happen this way. And this is what happens when you take a guy who's, like, really-

Michael Kosta 48:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:02 ... rocked and kinda fucked, so watch this. So, he catches him with a head kick. So, he's ... By the way, uh, Jason Wilnis had beaten him twice before, so he drops him with the left hand.

Michael Kosta 48:12 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 48:12 Is this the first fight?

Narrator 48:14 Yep, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 48:15 Or is this the, the head kick?

Narrator 48:16 I think it's the first one.

Joe Rogan 48:18 I don't know.

Narrator 48:18 I don't know if this is the full fight.

Michael Kosta 48:19 Yeah. I'm not sure.

Joe Rogan 48:20 I don't know if this is the one. I think this is the one when they went back and forth.

Narrator 48:22 Okay.

Joe Rogan 48:22 I don't think this is the one where he KO's him. I think this is the one where he drops him.

Narrator 48:26 65, maybe? I guess that's later.

Joe Rogan 48:27 Yeah, try to find the later one. Oh, this is it. This is the one, 'cause I can tell by his haircut. So, um-... Pereira at this time was the champion and he was getting revenge on Wilnis, who had beaten him before, and stopped him with low kicks in one of their fights. So, he headkicks him. Boom!

Michael Kosta 48:41 Boom.

Joe Rogan 48:42 So, right now-

Michael Kosta 48:43 Shit.

Joe Rogan 48:43 ... he's fucked. And in MMA, he would follow up, beat him a couple times-

Michael Kosta 48:46 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 48:46 ... that would be it.

Michael Kosta 48:47 Right, that would be over.

Joe Rogan 48:47 But Wilnis is like, they're giving him a chance to clear his head-

Michael Kosta 48:50 And you're co- you're a coach to, like, get up immediately, show that you're okay.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Yes.

Michael Kosta 48:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:54 Yeah. And he's like, move forward-

Michael Kosta 48:55 Then he'll clean the blood? Then he'll-

Joe Rogan 48:55 No, watch this. Boom!

Michael Kosta 48:57 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Yeah. That's the kind of shit that happens when you're really already fucked. So, he can hit you with this flying scissor knee right on the chin.

Michael Kosta 49:07 What the fuck is that, dude?

Joe Rogan 49:08 And he's the most ferocious knockout artist-

Michael Kosta 49:10 And he-

Joe Rogan 49:10 ... literally in the history of the sport. Look at this.

Michael Kosta 49:12 Oh, my-

Joe Rogan 49:12 On the chin.

Michael Kosta 49:13 ... God. Yeah, and that's, forg- that's, like, legal and everything.

Joe Rogan 49:15 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 49:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:17 It's encouraged. (laughs)

Michael Kosta 49:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:19 It's not just legal, that's celebrated. That's one of the greatest techniques in the history of the sport. And Alex Pereira, that's how he won his-

Michael Kosta 49:26 Dude.

Joe Rogan 49:26 ... uh, first UFC fight, he won with that.

Michael Kosta 49:28 I-

Joe Rogan 49:28 Wanna see another nasty one? Pull up, uh-

Michael Kosta 49:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:30 ... Pereira KO's Mikhaelidze.

Michael Kosta 49:33 You wanna see another nasty one?

Joe Rogan 49:34 This is, so this is Pereira's first entrance into the UFC. And, uh, I'm a giant fan of kickboxing.

Michael Kosta 49:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:41 So, I watch Muay Thai-

Michael Kosta 49:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:43 ... I watch Dutch kickboxing, I watch Glory, I watch everything I can-

Michael Kosta 49:46 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:46 ... about kickboxing, and I knew this guy was really special. So, I was completely hyping him up in the, in this first UFC fight. I'm like, "Just watch."

Michael Kosta 49:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:55 And he, he came through in flying colors and he came through with that flying knee. And it's, it's so nuts the amount of power this guy can generate, and the, with punches and with kicks, but with a flying knee. You have so much torque. You're literally throwing your body weight up into the air.

Michael Kosta 50:13 Look at the fucking... So, how do you avoid a flying knee? Just step outta the way?

Joe Rogan 50:16 So, it's in the, it's in the second round, Jamie, so it's right after this. Like, right at the beginning of the second round. Yeah. So, they start the second round and he's like, "Fuck this dude. I'm just gonna catch him coming in and flatline him." This is... Watch this. I mean, this is nutty. See if the, uh, production truck can isolate that. Here it is. But it's a nasty welt on his left cheek. Oof. Hey, Jon, honestly, that's what I was speaking to with all the clinching and grabbing- Oh, my God.

Michael Kosta 50:47 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 50:49 Alex Pereira with the knockout!

Narrator 50:50 How good is that?

Michael Kosta 50:50 That is so fast.

Joe Rogan 50:51 (laughs) He's such a fucking animal. He's such a monster, dude. He's such a monster.

Michael Kosta 50:54 So how would you even... How w- you can't block that. You just try to get outta the way of that?

Joe Rogan 50:58 Well, you have to get the fuck outta the way of that.

Michael Kosta 51:00 Outta the way.

Joe Rogan 51:00 You don't wanna block that because if you're, well-

Michael Kosta 51:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:02 ... you, you certainly should block it rather than take it on the chin. But once he's-

Michael Kosta 51:06 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 51:06 ... in the air like that-

Michael Kosta 51:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:07 ... if that catches your arms-

Michael Kosta 51:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:08 ... it could break your forearm. I mean, the amount of power that's involved in that particular technique is fucking extraordinary because it's a natural mov- movement of your hips.

Michael Kosta 51:19 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:20 It's a thing that you do your whole life, running and jumping.

Michael Kosta 51:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:24 You're, you're doing... So you can explode-

Michael Kosta 51:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:26 ... very quickly. And you're hitting someone with your knee, which is the most immobile part.

Michael Kosta 51:30 Yes. Yes.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Like, if you wanna hit someone with a joint, it's elbows and knees, but the knee's preferable.

Michael Kosta 51:36 But aren't you putting yourself in a vulnerable position to throw a flying knee?

Joe Rogan 51:39 Yeah, you gotta wait till a guy's fucked.

Michael Kosta 51:41 Right. Okay.

Joe Rogan 51:41 And that's what he does.

Michael Kosta 51:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:42 He waits till you're fucked.

Michael Kosta 51:43 Because if you... 'Cause you are jumping in the air-

Joe Rogan 51:45 Yes.

Michael Kosta 51:45 ... exposing yourself. So, what I would do is I would, I would move outta the way, Joe, and then I would pop him.

Joe Rogan 51:49 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 51:49 I would pop him.

Joe Rogan 51:50 You would... But some guys are just really g- like, Jon Jones, when he won the light heavyweight title, th- one of the craziest things that Jon did, he was 22 years old and he's fighting Mauricio "Shogun" Rua, who is a legend.

Michael Kosta 52:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 52:01 He was the light heavyweight champion, he was a legend of this organization called PRIDE in Japan, where they sold out, like, 90,000 seat arenas. I mean, he's a, a, like, a real legend of the sport. And Jon opens with a flying knee. Opens, first move, flying knee. Catches him-

Michael Kosta 52:16 Flying knee.

Joe Rogan 52:16 ... and then just beats the shit out of him and wins the title-

Michael Kosta 52:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:18 ... and becomes the youngest ever UFC champion.

Michael Kosta 52:20 That's a great name, the Flying-

Joe Rogan 52:21 Watch this, this is the beginning of the fight. Now, Shogun is, like I said-

Michael Kosta 52:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:25 ... he's a fucking legend and a knockout artist. And Jon starts right away, boom!

Michael Kosta 52:30 Bang!

Joe Rogan 52:31 Flying knee to open up the fight. Five-minute early. Red trunks for Jones and- And just put on a clinic. Put on a clinic and won the title at 22 years of age.

Michael Kosta 52:40 That's a ballsy move to start with, that.

Joe Rogan 52:42 He's a ballsy motherfucker.

Michael Kosta 52:42 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:43 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 52:43 That's a big swing right outta the gate.

Joe Rogan 52:45 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 52:45 The flying knee.

Joe Rogan 52:45 It's a crazy move.

Michael Kosta 52:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:47 But some guys can pull it off. And it helps being tall, like Alex-

Michael Kosta 52:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:50 ... is very tall.

Michael Kosta 52:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:51 Jon's tall. So, it's, it's hard to hit their chin. But, you know, it doesn't always work. Like, sometimes guys do it and they get knocked out cold.

Michael Kosta 52:59 How does your fucking kneecap not break too?

Joe Rogan 53:01 It doesn't. No, your kneecap versus chin, I'll take kneecap all day long.

Michael Kosta 53:04 Okay. All right.

Joe Rogan 53:05 Especially when your knees are bent and you're hitting them with this part right here. You can hit that pretty hard on things. You'd be surprised.

Michael Kosta 53:11 I have so much respect for these athletes. And I'm also... I can't be far enough away from it. Just to see-

Joe Rogan 53:17 Wanna see it go wrong? I wanna show you the flying knee go wrong.

Michael Kosta 53:20 Yes (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 53:20 Pull up, um, uh, Fedor Emelianenko versus, um, oh, Andrei Arlovski. I'm sorry.

Michael Kosta 53:28 You wanna see a flying knee go wrong?

Joe Rogan 53:29 Yeah, Andrei Arlovski, Fedor Emelianenko. So, this is, Andrei Arlovski was actually winning this fight, and he actually was kinda tuning Fedor up, but he was hitting him with some big shots and he got a little crazy. And he lept in with a flying knee and got flatlined.

Michael Kosta 53:42 Well, that's what I'm, that's...

Joe Rogan 53:44 This is what you would do.

Michael Kosta 53:45 That's what I was thinking, "This is what I would do."

Joe Rogan 53:46 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 53:46 No, but I was thinking, this is a vulnerable posi- you don't wanna be-

Joe Rogan 53:48 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 53:48 ... in the air.

Joe Rogan 53:50 True. So, he's fighting the guy, um, uh, with the bald head.

Michael Kosta 53:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:53 That's Fedor Emelianenko, who's a legend. So, watch Arlovski. He catches him with a kick.

Michael Kosta 53:57 Okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:57 He's feeling cocky.

Michael Kosta 53:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:58 Tries the flying knee, boom!

Michael Kosta 53:59 Right, boom. Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 54:01 Flatlined. But he's fighting, and Fedor, that's literally-

Michael Kosta 54:04 Okay.

Joe Rogan 54:04 ... the greatest heavyweight of all time. If not-

Michael Kosta 54:07 It's-

Joe Rogan 54:07 ... one of the greatest, like... There's the argument that he's the greatest. So, he catches him on the chin as he's leaping in.

Michael Kosta 54:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:13 Like, perfect punch.

Michael Kosta 54:14 So, the guy with the beard thought...

Joe Rogan 54:16 He thought he was vulnerable.

Michael Kosta 54:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:18 He was beating his ass a little bit.

Michael Kosta 54:19 And, and he made a mistake.

Joe Rogan 54:20 And he tried to come in cocky with a flying knee and he got clipped on the jaw.

Michael Kosta 54:23 Oh, my God. And as soon as he gets hit, you just see the, his flying knee, knee just drop.

Joe Rogan 54:27 Also, you gotta think where Fedor threw that punch, 'cause Fedor knew he was going in the air. This is, like, the reads this guy's able to give.

Michael Kosta 54:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:34 He sees Arlovski make a motion, like, bend at the knees-

Michael Kosta 54:38 Okay, here we go.

Joe Rogan 54:38 ... like he's gonna launch himself. So, if you look at where he punches him, he punches him so high up in the air, so he knew where his head was gonna be. Look at that, look how high he's...... see it? He's ducked down and Arlovski's-

Michael Kosta 54:50 And he read it.

Joe Rogan 54:50 ... way up in the air and he catches him perfectly on the chin.

Michael Kosta 54:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:53 Like, that is just an understanding of positioning, where a guy's gonna be and where, uh, what- the timing-

Michael Kosta 54:59 This is-

Joe Rogan 54:59 ... of your punches.

Michael Kosta 55:00 This is reminding me of the way Roger Federer would notice his opponent would quarter of an inch open up his grip on the run. And Roger would know, "Forehand slice is coming. I'll sneak in and pop." And now it's much different sport, obviously.

Joe Rogan 55:14 Really?

Michael Kosta 55:15 But it's reading-

Joe Rogan 55:15 Just the grip?

Michael Kosta 55:16 Yeah. Oh, dude, if you just... Typically, he does it like this, and this time, he's doing it tim- boom. There you go. Go on.

Joe Rogan 55:21 Wow.

Michael Kosta 55:22 What's- what's so different about tennis, obviously, is then you just volley the ball for a winner. It's 15, love.

Joe Rogan 55:27 You don't get head kicked. (laughs)

Michael Kosta 55:28 You don't get fucking knocked out. I mean, this is why this- this shit fascinates me. But, I don't know, dude.

Joe Rogan 55:34 Well, it's the consequences are so great-

Michael Kosta 55:36 The consequences are so great.

Joe Rogan 55:37 ... that people look at it as a barbaric, horrific thing-

Michael Kosta 55:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:40 ... which is valid.

Michael Kosta 55:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:41 I understand why pacifists and people who are very peaceful don't wanna have anything to do with violence.

Michael Kosta 55:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 I get it.

Michael Kosta 55:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:47 But what it is to me is the ultimate problem-solving.

Michael Kosta 55:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:52 It's- it's problem-solving.

Michael Kosta 55:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:53 You have a person in front of you that is doing all of these things to try to throw you off. They're feinting you, they're moving-

Michael Kosta 56:00 Yep, yep.

Joe Rogan 56:00 ... they're switching stances-

Michael Kosta 56:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:02 ... they're shooting it for takedowns that they don't want so they could hit- catch you with a punch-

Michael Kosta 56:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:05 ... on the way in. There's so many variables you have to think about. So it's just like high-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences.

Michael Kosta 56:12 Yeah. I love sport because it- it teaches life lessons with very low stakes.

Joe Rogan 56:20 Hmm.

Michael Kosta 56:20 But in this-

Joe Rogan 56:22 That's high stakes.

Michael Kosta 56:22 ... these sports, there's high stakes.

Joe Rogan 56:24 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 56:24 And that's very interesting for me because I would much rather my kid play soccer or tennis, learn some important lessons with low stakes. But this type of thing, uh, that is serious stakes, man.

Joe Rogan 56:35 It is serious stakes. I think kids, especially boys, should all learn how to fight so that they don't ever fight. That's what I think.

Michael Kosta 56:42 I- I, as a 45-year-old grown man, I wish I would've learned how to fight.

Joe Rogan 56:46 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 56:46 And I think it's probably not too late.

Joe Rogan 56:48 It's not too late.

Michael Kosta 56:48 I know you got a gym over here.

Joe Rogan 56:49 Yeah, I was telling you-

Michael Kosta 56:50 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:50 ... you'd get into jujitsu. You'd be great at it.

Michael Kosta 56:52 Get jujitsu?

Joe Rogan 56:52 You have long limbs-

Michael Kosta 56:53 So, all right. S-

Joe Rogan 56:53 ... you're athletic.

Michael Kosta 56:54 So that's- that's what I should be doing?

Joe Rogan 56:55 Long limbs are huge-

Michael Kosta 56:56 In jujitsu?

Joe Rogan 56:57 ... for jujitsu because there's certain things that you'll be able to catch that other people can't catch with shorter limbs-

Michael Kosta 57:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 57:02 ... like a D'Arce choke. So a D'Arce choke is-

Michael Kosta 57:04 A D'Arce choke?

Joe Rogan 57:04 So say if you come to grab me and you-

Michael Kosta 57:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:07 ... have your head here and your arm wraps around me like this-

Michael Kosta 57:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:10 ... I can shove my arm under like this, go off the side of your neck, and clamp it like this, and now I've got you in a wicked choke. It's called a D'Arce choke.

Michael Kosta 57:21 Oh, shit. The D'Arce choke.

Joe Rogan 57:22 You will be way better at that than me because you-

Michael Kosta 57:25 Okay.

Joe Rogan 57:25 ... have an extra six inches that you could seal this thing up.

Michael Kosta 57:28 Okay.

Joe Rogan 57:29 So your- your hand will go further than mine. You'll be able to grab it deeper than I can.

Michael Kosta 57:33 (laughs) Dude, I'm writing down D'Arce choke.

Joe Rogan 57:35 Yeah. Y- you can, you can wicked at it.

Michael Kosta 57:36 And what I'll do tonight on my YouTube is I'll watch some D'Arce chokes-

Joe Rogan 57:39 Yes.

Michael Kosta 57:39 ... and I... But th-

Joe Rogan 57:40 And then you do it the other way, it's an anaconda. So you either go-

Michael Kosta 57:43 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 57:44 ... armpit this way-

Michael Kosta 57:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:45 ... it's a D'Arce, or you go head this way, armpit that way, it's an anaconda. And with the anaconda, you roll like an anaconda and you squeeze them deeper into the choke.

Michael Kosta 57:54 And I, and I just squeeze until the referee says-

Joe Rogan 57:56 Yes.

Michael Kosta 57:56 ... it's over.

Joe Rogan 57:57 And your long legs, you could wrap around their body-

Michael Kosta 57:59 Oh, hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:59 ... to secure them in place.

Michael Kosta 58:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:01 You could grab ahold of one of their legs so they can't turn away from you.

Michael Kosta 58:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:04 You could turn into them and fucking keep the squeeze on.

Michael Kosta 58:07 And the-

Joe Rogan 58:07 Dude, you'd be wicked at it.

Michael Kosta 58:08 And in a competition, that happens until the ref calls it? Or do I go-

Joe Rogan 58:13 Or the person taps out most of the time.

Michael Kosta 58:14 They tap out.

Joe Rogan 58:14 Most of the time, you tap out-

Michael Kosta 58:15 Because they, they know it's over.

Joe Rogan 58:17 ... because you, you know it's over. You know it's over, you, if you're a psycho, you go to sleep. And there are a lot of psychos who just let-

Michael Kosta 58:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:21 ... people choke them unconscious.

Michael Kosta 58:23 They just...

Joe Rogan 58:23 That happens all the time. Guys just say, "Fuck it. I'm gonna get choked unconscious," and they just go out.

Michael Kosta 58:27 And then the ref will put-

Joe Rogan 58:28 The referee stops you.

Michael Kosta 58:29 Ah.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Hopefully.

Michael Kosta 58:30 Hopefully.

Joe Rogan 58:30 Hopefully. But sometimes the referees miss it, and sometimes someone's out for, like, seconds-

Michael Kosta 58:34 Ah, fuck.

Joe Rogan 58:34 ... while someone's still fucking squeezing the shit out of their neck. And then the referee finally figures it out.

Michael Kosta 58:39 And they fuckin'-

Joe Rogan 58:39 The person's like, like, in the shadow realm.

Michael Kosta 58:42 I do absolutely love that in the-

Joe Rogan 58:44 (sniffs) .

Michael Kosta 58:44 ... in these sports, there's this extreme violence, um, high stakes, but then also a simple tap-

Joe Rogan 58:51 Yes.

Michael Kosta 58:51 ... is a mutual agreement.

Joe Rogan 58:53 That's it. 100%.

Michael Kosta 58:54 That's fucking awesome.

Joe Rogan 58:55 Yeah. And if you don't stop when someone taps-

Michael Kosta 58:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:57 ... you will get kicked out of the sport.

Michael Kosta 58:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:59 There's a guy named-

Michael Kosta 59:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:00 ... Usamar Palhares who was one of the scariest motherfuckers to ever fight because he was a leg lock specialist.

Michael Kosta 59:05 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:06 And what he would do is rip your knees apart.

Michael Kosta 59:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:08 And he wouldn't, he wouldn't let go when you tapped. And he got kicked out of the UFC for it-

Michael Kosta 59:12 Wow.

Joe Rogan 59:12 ... 'cause he did it to so many people.

Michael Kosta 59:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:13 He was known for not letting go.

Michael Kosta 59:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:16 And he would, these guys would be screaming in-

Michael Kosta 59:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:18 ... agony and slapping and tapping-

Michael Kosta 59:20 Slapping and tapping, "I'm out."

Joe Rogan 59:21 ... and he would be still twisting.

Michael Kosta 59:22 Wow.

Joe Rogan 59:22 And he was built like a human pit bull.

Michael Kosta 59:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:25 He was like-

Michael Kosta 59:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:26 ... 5'7", 185 pounds of solid muscle, and he would just-

Michael Kosta 59:30 He would just-

Joe Rogan 59:30 ... dive on your legs and roll into these positions and rip your knees apart. Like, uh, with a heel hook, a heel hook is so terrible because your knee has a lot of strength going forward and backwards, but has almost none going-

Michael Kosta 59:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:44 ... side to side. So they isolate the top of it with their legs, they wrap the heel into the crook of their elbow, and then they wrench that motherfucker apart. It's literally twisting your knee apart, and it's terrifying.

Michael Kosta 59:58 Oh, my god.

Joe Rogan 59:59 And he cripples people. Like you are-

Michael Kosta 1:00:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 ... fucked. He'll tear your ACL, your MCL, your meniscus. You're gonna go a whole year before you can fight again. You're gonna have to get surgery to reconstruct your knee, and then your knee's never gonna be the same 'cause your meniscus is shot now, and maybe some of your cartilage. So this is him.

Michael Kosta 1:00:14 I- I- I don't know. I don't know. Ow! I don't know. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 So this is, this is-

Michael Kosta 1:00:18 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 ... a fight that he had against David Avalon. And this is fucked because they stop the motion and they put him back into the same position. And when they put him back into the same position, he- he doesn't let go. So he- he holds onto the heel hook and just wrenches the fucking shit out. Like this right here. Ah! He let go there. He let go there because I think they were, like, chastising him to make sure... Look, look at that.

Michael Kosta 1:00:40 Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 Look at what he does.

Michael Kosta 1:00:41 I don't, I- I- I don't wanna look, bro.

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 And look at the build on this guy. Palhares was a fucking specimen.

Michael Kosta 1:00:46 And he's trying to turn the knee sideways.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 He's ripping this shit apart right here, man. He's...... pulling it backwards. It's backwards and at a slight angle.

Michael Kosta 1:00:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 I mean, this is horrific. And look at the build on Pajares. Imagine the fucking force-

Michael Kosta 1:01:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 ... the size of this guy's legs, the size of his torso, and perfect technique. And he's just ripping his fucking knee apart. That's a nasty knee bar right there. That was so horrible to watch. But in, uh, in MMA, he wound up getting kicked out of the UFC. Because, uh, I think it was Mike Pierce. See if you can find the Mike Pierce fight. It might not have been Pierce that- one of these fights-

Michael Kosta 1:01:22 I, I, I love, I love that the tap...

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Generally speaking it does.

Michael Kosta 1:01:26 Yeah. Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 But in this case, the Mike Pierce one, he's screaming and tapping and Pajares is-

Michael Kosta 1:01:30 Terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:01:30 ... still ripping it apart.

Michael Kosta 1:01:31 I mean, them- my, one of my favorite parts of tennis is how they'll battle for five and a half hours, and then they qu- calmly walk-

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 So here it is. Look.

Michael Kosta 1:01:37 He's tapping so-

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 He's t- watch. So he gets it, he's turn- he's tapping, and he won't let go.

Michael Kosta 1:01:43 And he's tr- he won't let-

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 He's still, when the referee's on him, he still yanked on it. So those ex-

Michael Kosta 1:01:47 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 That extra second-

Michael Kosta 1:01:48 Yeah, that's a big-

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 ... will just rip your shit apart. So he taps immediately. See, none of this has to happen.

Michael Kosta 1:01:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 He was tapping immediately.

Michael Kosta 1:01:55 I feel like the ref was on that, but-

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 I know, but it's like Pajares-

Michael Kosta 1:01:58 It's, it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 ... doesn't give a fuck.

Michael Kosta 1:01:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 He's out for blood. I mean, he had like a crazy childhood. He grew up on a farm with, like, no food, like every-

Michael Kosta 1:02:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 It's a really, like, he's, he's feral.

Michael Kosta 1:02:08 Right, like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 He's feral.

Michael Kosta 1:02:09 Which-

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 And he's super technical.

Michael Kosta 1:02:11 Which would serve you, I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:02:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 Well, until you get kicked out of the sport, you know, unfortunately, but-

Michael Kosta 1:02:16 God, it's, it's incredibly, um, uh, violent, but also systematic in its understanding of the human body.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:02:28 We're gonna know that the knee doesn't go this way.

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 No, it's really, really technical-

Michael Kosta 1:02:31 All s- all sports are like this, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Yeah, I think all sports at the highest levels-

Michael Kosta 1:02:35 Yeah, the highest-

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 ... they have to be like that.

Michael Kosta 1:02:36 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 Because you only get so far with genetics and so far with natural speed-

Michael Kosta 1:02:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 ... and endurance.

Michael Kosta 1:02:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:41 There's certain aspects of it that require a careful, considered study.

Michael Kosta 1:02:46 And wouldn't you, if you know your opponent is a guy that likes to do the, the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:02:50 Mm-hmm.

Michael Kosta 1:02:50 ... the w- wouldn't you then in your training work on-

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Yes.

Michael Kosta 1:02:54 ... defending that and also, like, making sure your knee can withstand more of that than normal?

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 You know, you're not gonna be able to do that.

Michael Kosta 1:02:59 Nah, you can't do that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 There's only so much you-

Michael Kosta 1:03:00 There's no special knee, knee pill you can take.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 You just, you gotta tap when you get into those positions-

Michael Kosta 1:03:04 Oh, fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 ... and then you gotta make sure that you don't get in those positions, which is the most important thing.

Michael Kosta 1:03:08 The tapping must be so humbling as a fighter, because you've trained so hard.

Joe Rogan 1:03:13 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:03:13 You wanna win so badly, and yet you have to do this thing. You have to press the eject button.

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Well, hopefully you will tap, because guys haven't tapped and they've gotten their arms broken in half.

Michael Kosta 1:03:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 And I've seen quite a few of those, incuding legends like Frank Mir one time. He would tap-

Michael Kosta 1:03:26 Too much pride, you mean, to tap?

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:03:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 'Cause he fought, uh, Antonio Nogueira, who was, uh, another legend, who was former heavyweight champion at Pride. And he caught him in a Kimura and snapped his upper arm, and we watched his arm crack, and then go limp, and you could see, like, where it was cracked up here, like-

Michael Kosta 1:03:42 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 Oh, it was horrific.

Michael Kosta 1:03:43 That's terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 So hard to watch.

Michael Kosta 1:03:45 When you're commentating, um, are you present moment completely? Are-

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 Oh, yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:03:52 Yeah, like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 100%.

Michael Kosta 1:03:52 You're just-

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 Locked in.

Michael Kosta 1:03:53 You're not, you're not thinking like, uh, it's not like these baseball commentators where like, "I got a story I'll tell later in the-"

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 No.

Michael Kosta 1:03:59 No, no 'cause you're, you're, it is that-

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 No.

Michael Kosta 1:04:00 Yeah, great.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 No.

Michael Kosta 1:04:01 Great.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Especially not while the actual fight is going on.

Michael Kosta 1:04:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 The actual fight is life and death, you know. You, you have to be locked in. But Daniel Cormier, my, uh, co-u- so there's like two color commentators, me and Daniel Cormier.

Michael Kosta 1:04:12 Yup.

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 And there's Jon Anik who's the play by play guy. Me and Daniel fuck around a lot.

Michael Kosta 1:04:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 We, we joke around a lot about stuff-

Michael Kosta 1:04:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 ... during the, because he's like a fun guy.

Michael Kosta 1:04:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 But when things are serious, we're serious.

Michael Kosta 1:04:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 You, you have to be like, you know, this is like, you're representing these people's hard work. You're trying to, like, put words to-

Michael Kosta 1:04:29 I, I, I love that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:04:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 You have to be very serious about it.

Michael Kosta 1:04:32 Because the stakes are so high.

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:04:34 And it's wild though that people might know you if they're just being introduced to you as the commentator for that.

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 Yeah.

Michael Kosta 1:04:41 And maybe don't know the other stuff. And-

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 Well, it's confusing for sure. (laughs)

Michael Kosta 1:04:46 But it's also like, it's one of the things that I'm most, uh, impressed with by what you do