Joe Rogan Experience #2290 - Michael Kosta

1. 0:00 – 0:31

   Studio hang, big-picture comedy tone

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Yes, sir, Michael. Good to see you-

   3. MKMichael Kosta0:13

      Thank you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      ... my friend.

   5. MKMichael Kosta0:15

      Thanks for having me, and really appreciate you showing me around. Wow, what a space you, you've created, man.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      Thank you. Thank you.

   7. MKMichael Kosta0:21

      That's so cool. Keeps going. I was excited to show you the picture of my sauna.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      (laughs)

   9. MKMichael Kosta0:26

      And then you show me-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       (laughs) .

   11. MKMichael Kosta0:27

       ... (laughs) you got an archery. Uh, it's so cool, man.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Thank you, thank you. It's fun.

   13. MKMichael Kosta0:31

       That's so cool, yeah.

2. 0:31 – 2:38

   Jon Stewart’s return and why balanced satire matters

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      So we were just singing Jon Stewart's praises, uh, before this started. But I'm-

   2. MKMichael Kosta0:35

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      ... so happy he's back at The Daily Show.

   4. MKMichael Kosta0:37

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:37

      And I'm so happy he makes fun of everything, and I'm so happy he still makes dick jokes.

   6. MKMichael Kosta0:41

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:42

      You know, it's fun. It's like The Daily Show seems like The Daily Show again. Like, that guy's a very unique dude, very unique person. And one of the most important, like, pieces to, like, unify everybody. He's, uh, is reasonable.

   8. MKMichael Kosta0:54

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:54

      Like, he gets the whole-

   10. MKMichael Kosta0:56

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       ... big picture. Like, let's stop being so fucking ridiculously tribal.

   12. MKMichael Kosta1:00

       In the morning meeting, he'll come in, and we're all sitting there, the writers. And he just kind of shuts the door behind him, and we start talking. But it's, it's like a, it's like a conversation with a college professor, but he's in charge. And it's beautiful.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:16

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MKMichael Kosta1:17

       All sides. This, I disagree with that, what about this? And it's like, oh, w- it's, it's really fun to be a part of. And then someone will yell out a dick joke, and then that joke will make it to the show too, you know?

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Yeah.

   16. MKMichael Kosta1:26

       It's like smart things and dumb things. That's, that's beautiful.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       Well, he's never abandoned being a real comic.

   18. MKMichael Kosta1:31

       Correct, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       You know, which is what got him to the dance in the first place. So he's always ha- he always has tha- those instincts. And he's the very best at, like, holding a line-

   20. MKMichael Kosta1:41

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:41

       ... and, like, making something, like-

   22. MKMichael Kosta1:42

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:42

       ... even more preposterous just with the facial expression.

   24. MKMichael Kosta1:45

       Correct, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:46

       And pointing out, like, these fucking unbelievably ridiculous in-your-face hypocrisies that you see-

   26. MKMichael Kosta1:52

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       ... every day from both sides.

   28. MKMichael Kosta1:54

       Yeah, from both sides. Have you, have you ever done standup with him?

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       Oh, yeah, we've done stuff together.

   30. MKMichael Kosta1:58

       Yeah, yeah.
3. 2:38 – 4:40

   Detach from your ideas: joke books, ego, and creative humility

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:38

      I also think we all-

   2. MKMichael Kosta2:39

      (laughs) .

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:39

      ... as human beings need to be divorced from our ideas.

   4. MKMichael Kosta2:42

      Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:42

      Your ideas are not you.

   6. MKMichael Kosta2:44

      Okay.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:44

      You are you. And ideas are things that you should consider.

   8. MKMichael Kosta2:48

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:48

      Uh, ideas are something that you should ... I mean, if it's gonna have some sort of a real physical impact on your life and your family and your family's life-

   10. MKMichael Kosta2:55

       Right, right. (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:56

       ... and people you care about, I understand. I understand why you get connected to things like that.

   12. MKMichael Kosta2:59

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       But for the most part, most of these i- ideas don't affect you. A lot of them don't. And yet we're so ideologically captured that we fight for these ideas as if it's our very nature.

   14. MKMichael Kosta3:11

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:11

       And so you're, you're talking about your essence as a human being. And it's stupid.

   16. MKMichael Kosta3:16

       This reminds me of a time I left my joke book on a train in New York. And, uh, in the joke book I have, "This book is important to me. Call me if you get this." You know? And this guy texts me and he says, "I have this joke book." And, you know, talk about your ideas.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       Yeah.

   18. MKMichael Kosta3:34

       The joke book is the most unfiltered dumb idea ever.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:38

       Oh, yeah.

   20. MKMichael Kosta3:39

       That's the beauty of it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       Yeah.

   22. MKMichael Kosta3:41

       And I th- I said, "Man, I'm sure he's reading it." Why, you know, if you're gonna read it-

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:45

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   24. MKMichael Kosta3:45

       ... you're gonna read a stranger's joke book. And I connected with him. He was very kind. He gave it to me, but he kind of looked at me like, "Are, are you a comedian type thing?" And I said, "Yeah." But it's terrifying when that idea gets attached to you when it was just a fleeting idea.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:00

       Right. Yeah. The, the joke book idea is the best example of that, right, because most of what you write is shit. Which took me forever-

   26. MKMichael Kosta4:07

       Oh my God. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:07

       ... to figure out. I was like, "God, I just write shit."

   28. MKMichael Kosta4:10

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       And then every now and then, a gem.

   30. MKMichael Kosta4:11

       Yeah.
4. 4:40 – 6:48

   The War of Art and building a professional writing ritual

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:40

      Yeah. I mean, do you ever read, uh, Pressfield's War of Art?

   2. MKMichael Kosta4:43

      No.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:43

      It's really ... We have a stack of him out there.

   4. MKMichael Kosta4:45

      Ah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:45

      I'll get you a copy of it. It's a small book, easy read.

   6. MKMichael Kosta4:48

      Jay Larsen, comedian in LA, recommended that book to me 10 years ago.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:52

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MKMichael Kosta4:52

      And, and I never tackled it. Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:54

      It's really good.

   10. MKMichael Kosta4:55

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       I used to ge- I used to have a stack of them in the studio where I'd give out to guests, 'cause so-

   12. MKMichael Kosta4:58

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       ... so many comics, I was like, "This is what you need."

   14. MKMichael Kosta5:00

       What's the essence? I will read it. What's the ... Also, you know what keeps freaking me out? If there's a shooting star above my head. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       Yes, there is. Yeah, there is. Yeah. Every now and then one will fly above your head.

   16. MKMichael Kosta5:08

       (laughs) That's so cool.

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:10

       (laughs)

   18. MKMichael Kosta5:10

       Uh, what's the essence? The, the, the War of Art. That makes it sound like it's a struggle to create art.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:15

       Yeah, it's the struggle against resistance.

   20. MKMichael Kosta5:18

       Okay.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:18

       Which is procrastination-

   22. MKMichael Kosta5:19

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:19

       ... which is this thing that we all do before we actually write. Which is so weird, because I love when I'm actually locked in and great ideas are coming.

   24. MKMichael Kosta5:28

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:28

       It's one of the best feelings in the world. Like, it's like somehow or another you're pulling these ideas out of nowhere.

   26. MKMichael Kosta5:33

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:34

       And then it's your job to take this seed and try to go plant it on stage.

   28. MKMichael Kosta5:38

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       And try to water it-

   30. MKMichael Kosta5:39

       Mm-hmm.
5. 6:48 – 11:12

   Writing logistics: typing vs handwriting, distraction-proof devices, and rabbit holes

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:48

      I'm, my move is when everyone's asleep in my house-

   2. MKMichael Kosta6:51

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:52

      ... 'cause-

   4. MKMichael Kosta6:53

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:53

      ... I still, I get up pretty early for a comic.

   6. MKMichael Kosta6:56

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:56

      You know, I'm up by 8:00-

   8. MKMichael Kosta6:57

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:58

      ... al- almost every day.

   10. MKMichael Kosta6:59

       Comics are u- unreal with that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       Right.

   12. MKMichael Kosta7:00

       (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:01

       But that means that I can go to bed at 1:00 and still get seven hours of sleep.

   14. MKMichael Kosta7:05

       Yeah, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       So, that's what I do.

   16. MKMichael Kosta7:06

       Okay.

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:06

       So, when... Everybody in my house kinda goes to bed early. My kids go to school.

   18. MKMichael Kosta7:10

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:10

       My wife goes to bed early.

   20. MKMichael Kosta7:11

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan7:11

       So, when everyone's asleep, it's just me and the dog.

   22. MKMichael Kosta7:14

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       You know, and either we're watching YouTube or I'm writing. And I, that's when I get my best work done. So-

   24. MKMichael Kosta7:19

       Do you write by hand or you type?

   25. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       ... everyone's asleep. No, I w- I type.

   26. MKMichael Kosta7:22

       You type.

   27. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       Yeah. I feel like, uh, I can't write fast enough by hand. I need-

   28. MKMichael Kosta7:26

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan7:26

       What I like about, uh, typing is that I don't have to look at the keys. I know how to type. So, I can make a letter, I can make a word very quickly. I can-

   30. MKMichael Kosta7:36

       Yeah.
6. 11:12 – 13:26

   Motorcycles, deer season chaos, and city safety design

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:12

      What kind of motorcycle do you drive?

   2. MKMichael Kosta11:13

      I have a, uh, Triumph Bonneville 2011. It's in a, it's in storage in Pennsylvania now. I take it out in the summer a lot, but-

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:22

      Where do you drive it?

   4. MKMichael Kosta11:23

      ... in, in LA, that's all, that was what I used all the time.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:26

      You ride a motorcycle in LA?

   6. MKMichael Kosta11:28

      I did forever. It's-

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:29

      Holy shit, dude.

   8. MKMichael Kosta11:29

      ... you know, my wife doesn't really, you know, we have a family now, but-

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:32

      Yeah.

   10. MKMichael Kosta11:32

       ... in PA, I, I ride it a lot. Um, and there, it's deer, man, they're very, you know, that's the scary thing there.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:39

       Oh, yeah.

   12. MKMichael Kosta11:39

       They get very close. They're not afraid of cars or motor vehicles at this point.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:43

       Well, there's a time between like September-ish to like December-ish where they're retarded-

   14. MKMichael Kosta11:48

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:48

       ... because they're horny, you know?

   16. MKMichael Kosta11:50

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan11:51

       Once it starts getting warm out, they start getting-

   18. MKMichael Kosta11:53

       Retarded deer.

   19. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       ... goofy.

   20. MKMichael Kosta11:53

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan11:53

       And then when you get cold, like around November-

   22. MKMichael Kosta11:56

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan11:56

       ... that's when it really kicks in. Like if you're in Pennsylvania or Iowa-

   24. MKMichael Kosta11:59

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:00

       Oh my God, I visited my friend John in Iowa and I'm driving down the road and every 15 seconds, you're slamming on your brakes.

   26. MKMichael Kosta12:06

       You're slamming... Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:06

       Because something's darting near the road.

   28. MKMichael Kosta12:08

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:09

       They're all over the place.

   30. MKMichael Kosta12:09

       So they're horny and looking.
7. 13:26 – 18:55

   Italy pizza vs US pizza, Texas brisket science, and chasing your calling

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:26

      They drink a lot of wine. They stay thin somehow or another, which is odd. Like, I hope RFK Jr. figures that out.

   2. MKMichael Kosta13:32

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:32

      How the fuck-

   4. MKMichael Kosta13:33

      It seems to be full butter all, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:33

      ... I wanna know how the Italians are so thin.

   6. MKMichael Kosta13:36

      All the time.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:36

      I go to Italy, and-

   8. MKMichael Kosta13:38

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:38

      ... it d- it's also, like, it's the cl- the standard cliche, but it is true. You go there, you can eat the food, and it doesn't affect you the same way. It's like, what-

   10. MKMichael Kosta13:44

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:44

       And we don't even think twice about it. We come back here and still order pizza and still feel like shit. If I eat a pizza here, I feel so bloated. I ate a pizza in Italy last summer, and I, I ate the whole pizza too.

   12. MKMichael Kosta13:55

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:55

       The whole margherita pizza. I ate the whole fucking thing. And I was like, I just would j- just resign myself to, like, the thud of it hitting-

   14. MKMichael Kosta14:03

       Right, right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       ... my digestive tract-

   16. MKMichael Kosta14:05

       Right, right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:05

       ... and, like, the, feeling like I'm on Dramamine just, like uh.

   18. MKMichael Kosta14:08

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:08

       I have resigned myself. I'm like, "I'm eating pizza. Fucking I'm, I'm in Italy."

   20. MKMichael Kosta14:11

       This is what's gonna happen.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:12

       "Let's just do it." Nothing. Never came.

   22. MKMichael Kosta14:13

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:14

       Never came. Ate a whole pizza. I was like this the rest of the day. I was like, "This is crazy." I'm not even, like-

   24. MKMichael Kosta14:18

       Brisket.

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:19

       ... sludgy.

   26. MKMichael Kosta14:19

       Brisket crushes me.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       Oh, Terry Black's will put you down, son.

   28. MKMichael Kosta14:23

       I mean (laughs) -

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       (laughs)

   30. MKMichael Kosta14:24

       I mean, I had, uh, I, I was in Houston. Steve Byrne was at the other club. He went to get lunch. Yeah, of course, we go get brisket. I went back to hotel. I slept for, like, three and a half hours.
8. 18:55 – 26:29

   Comedy careers: starting late, Boston’s killer scene, and social media acceleration

   1. MKMichael Kosta18:55

      I remember I was coaching tennis at University of Michigan. I was making $31,000 a year and I go, "I think I can make this in comedy. If I'm gonna get paid like shit, let me at least do what I want."

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:07

      Yeah.

   3. MKMichael Kosta19:07

      So of course, the first year I did comedy, I made whatever, $6,000 or whatever. But I think often how much harder that would have been if I was making $100,000.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:16

      Right.

   5. MKMichael Kosta19:17

      You know, it's, it's... Because I was poor, let's be poor and pick the thing I wanna be doing.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:22

      Oh, 100%.

   7. MKMichael Kosta19:23

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:23

      But that's the thing about youth.

   9. MKMichael Kosta19:25

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:25

       Youth is filled with... If you're 47 years old and you decide that you need to change careers-

   11. MKMichael Kosta19:30

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:31

       ... and you're gonna be a folk singer and you have a family-

   13. MKMichael Kosta19:33

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:33

       ... like what are you talking about?

   15. MKMichael Kosta19:34

       Yeah, I mean... (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:35

       You have a Volvo, you have a fucking mortgage, you idiot.

   17. MKMichael Kosta19:37

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:37

       Like, you have to go to work. You have to go to work. If you're gonna make folk songs, you're gonna make them on the two hours you have for yourself on the weekend-

   19. MKMichael Kosta19:45

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan19:45

       ... when everybody else is out of the house.

   21. MKMichael Kosta19:47

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan19:48

       You don't have any time for that.

   23. MKMichael Kosta19:49

       What, is it true that Rodney Dangerfield found comedy so late like that?

   24. JRJoe Rogan19:53

       Yeah.

   25. MKMichael Kosta19:53

       That's nuts.

   26. JRJoe Rogan19:53

       Well, Rodney did comedy and then quit, but kept writing-

   27. MKMichael Kosta19:56

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:56

       ... and was selling aluminum siding.

   29. MKMichael Kosta19:58

       Right, that's what I remember of that story.

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:00

       And then remade it when he was like 46.
9. 26:29 – 38:34

   Tennis as identity: speaking the sport’s language and embracing the ‘athlete’ background

   1. MKMichael Kosta26:29

      It is very beautiful to watch, um, people get better at stuff.

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:34

      Yeah.

   3. MKMichael Kosta26:35

      There's a, a female tennis player right now named, uh, Andreeva. I forget how to pronounce her first name. But I just watched her at Indian Wells. And I saw her four years ago at the French Open. Everyone was saying, watching, "Uh, did you wanna watch Andreeva?" And I'm like, "This is a child that doesn't know how to play the sport. Why are we talking about her?" I watched her last week, an, uh, absolute nightmare of a beast, you know, hitting the ball, the movement, her shape. And it was like, oh, every day she got better-

   4. JRJoe Rogan27:03

      Mm.

   5. MKMichael Kosta27:04

      ... for four... And to see that was nuts. And I always go back and watch old, oh my God, Novak Djokovic's first Grand Slam when he's got like the worst haircut in the baggy shirt and the backhand was looking different. Now just it's just amazing to see how these athletes evolve. And I'm sure it's the same for fighters, and you mentioned it was.

   6. JRJoe Rogan27:20

      Sure, yeah.

   7. MKMichael Kosta27:21

      Yeah, I love seeing that, love seeing that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan27:22

      Yeah, well, tennis is like all things, right? It's you-

   9. MKMichael Kosta27:26

      Yes.

   10. JRJoe Rogan27:26

       ... when you really do it, then you can truly appreciate people who are great.

   11. MKMichael Kosta27:31

       Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan27:31

       Y- like there's, there's so many things that are like, like in martial arts, it's a big, like, especially when things go to the ground. A lot of times people don't understand how difficult a specific maneuver is.

   13. MKMichael Kosta27:41

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan27:41

       Like how he did that-

   15. MKMichael Kosta27:42

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan27:43

       ... how he baited him with that.

   17. MKMichael Kosta27:44

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan27:44

       And then, uh, you have to like... Well, uh, there's certain things I watch and I'm like, "Oh my God, does everybody appreciate this?"

   19. MKMichael Kosta27:49

       Right.

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:49

       That was insane. That was insane.

   21. MKMichael Kosta27:51

       It's a language.

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:51

       Yeah.

   23. MKMichael Kosta27:52

       It's a language. And if you don't speak the lang-... I mean, when-

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:54

       Right.

   25. MKMichael Kosta27:54

       I don't speak MMA language, but that's where good commentators come in. You... Oh, they're excited for a reason.

   26. JRJoe Rogan28:01

       Yeah.

   27. MKMichael Kosta28:01

       That, that was something that we don't see very often, and that helps me. I assume that's how it works for tennis people that aren't... or for non-tennis people when they're watching tennis, 'cause it's-

   28. JRJoe Rogan28:09

       Oh, I'm sure. But I think only a person like you who is a professional could appreciate the technique involved-

   29. MKMichael Kosta28:14

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan28:14

       ... and like the changing of Djokovic's back string.
10. 38:34 – 47:13

    Combat sports awe: one-punch power, knockouts, and why timing beats ‘boxing’

    1. JRJoe Rogan38:34

       Those long, tall guys, when you have this torque... Like you ever see Deontay Wilder?

    2. MKMichael Kosta38:40

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan38:40

       He's arguably the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the-

    4. MKMichael Kosta38:45

       Jesus.

    5. JRJoe Rogan38:45

       ... history of the heavyweight division. At one point in time, he was like... What is Deontay's record? I think it's like 40 and he's had a few losses recently, but at one point in time, he had like 39 knockouts out of 40 fights.

    6. MKMichael Kosta39:01

       Jesus. (laughs)

    7. JRJoe Rogan39:01

       Which is insane.

    8. MKMichael Kosta39:04

       And these are professional fighters he's knocking out.

    9. JRJoe Rogan39:06

       And-

    10. MKMichael Kosta39:06

        It's not me.

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:07

        ... he's undersized for the heavyweight division.

    12. MKMichael Kosta39:09

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan39:09

        When he fought Tyson Fury, Tyson Fury is like 260. He was 209. 209.

    14. MKMichael Kosta39:15

        And he made it to 40 and 0.

    15. JRJoe Rogan39:16

        40 and 0-

    16. MKMichael Kosta39:17

        Jesus.

    17. JRJoe Rogan39:17

        ... and th- 39 of those 40 were knockouts.

    18. MKMichael Kosta39:21

        Were knockouts.

    19. JRJoe Rogan39:21

        Look it, everybody, knockout, TKO, m- TKO, KO. He knocked out everybody. And he knock... G- get the v- Luis Ortiz fight. Show them-

    20. MKMichael Kosta39:31

        For-

    21. JRJoe Rogan39:31

        ... the Luis Ortiz fight.

    22. MKMichael Kosta39:32

        Forgive, forgive this extremely ignorant question. When you say knockout, that means like-

    23. JRJoe Rogan39:36

        Flatline.

    24. MKMichael Kosta39:37

        ... the guy's done.

    25. JRJoe Rogan39:38

        Like, yeah.

    26. MKMichael Kosta39:38

        That's, that's not like the ref calls it. That's a, that's a-

    27. JRJoe Rogan39:40

        So TKO is what-

    28. MKMichael Kosta39:41

        TKO.

    29. JRJoe Rogan39:41

        ... the ref calls it.

    30. MKMichael Kosta39:42

        Okay.
11. 47:13 – 1:07:04

    Flying knees, taps, and the ethics of damage in MMA vs boxing

    1. JRJoe Rogan47:13

       Let me show you o- one of the greatest examples of that.

    2. MKMichael Kosta47:16

       Yes, please.

    3. JRJoe Rogan47:16

       Alex Pereira, who was, uh, a two-division glory world champion. Pull up Alex Pereira KO's Jason Wilnis. So, he-

    4. MKMichael Kosta47:26

       (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan47:26

       He's like the most destructive kickboxer in the history of the sport.

    6. MKMichael Kosta47:29

       Okay.

    7. JRJoe Rogan47:30

       And he went over to the UFC, became a two-division UFC champion, just lost his title last weekend in a really close fight, great fight. But he hits this guy with a head kick and drops him. And you can tell this guy's fucked.

    8. MKMichael Kosta47:43

       Right.

    9. JRJoe Rogan47:44

       But they give him the standing eight 'cause it's in kickboxing-

    10. MKMichael Kosta47:45

        Right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan47:45

        ... not in MMA.

    12. MKMichael Kosta47:46

        Okay.

    13. JRJoe Rogan47:46

        They give him the standing eight count, dust his gloves off, "You okay? Come forward." And then he gets hit with a flying knee on the chin.

    14. MKMichael Kosta47:53

        Oh.

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:53

        And just sent into the shadow realm.

    16. MKMichael Kosta47:55

        Right. (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan47:56

        And it didn't, didn't need to happen this way. And this is what happens when you take a guy who's, like, really-

    18. MKMichael Kosta48:02

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan48:02

        ... rocked and kinda fucked, so watch this. So, he catches him with a head kick. So, he's ... By the way, uh, Jason Wilnis had beaten him twice before, so he drops him with the left hand.

    20. MKMichael Kosta48:12

        Okay, okay.

    21. JRJoe Rogan48:12

        Is this the first fight?

    22. NANarrator48:14

        Yep, I don't know.

    23. JRJoe Rogan48:15

        Or is this the, the head kick?

    24. NANarrator48:16

        I think it's the first one.

    25. JRJoe Rogan48:18

        I don't know.

    26. NANarrator48:18

        I don't know if this is the full fight.

    27. MKMichael Kosta48:19

        Yeah. I'm not sure.

    28. JRJoe Rogan48:20

        I don't know if this is the one. I think this is the one when they went back and forth.

    29. NANarrator48:22

        Okay.

    30. JRJoe Rogan48:22

        I don't think this is the one where he KO's him. I think this is the one where he drops him.

Episode duration: 2:41:35