Joe Rogan Experience #2293 - Chris Williamson

1. 0:00 – 0:44

   Cold open banter: tinted glasses, “Instagram filter” view of the world

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Man, whatever. You took the glasses off. I was hoping you were gonna keep them on.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:15

      You want me to keep them on?

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You can pull them off.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:17

      Let me try them on.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Some dudes can't pull off douchey glasses, you know?

   7. CWChris Williamson0:19

      You think these are douchey?

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      A little bit if I didn't know you, but I know you.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:23

      All right, well-

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       You're not douchey at all, so you can wear cool glasses.

   11. CWChris Williamson0:25

       Well, these were requests by you-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson0:26

       ... so I can wear what I want.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       You've been wearing them a lot. I like them.

   15. CWChris Williamson0:30

       Yeah, yeah, I do. They're kind of... It's like w- having an Instagram filter for the entire world.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Right.

   17. CWChris Williamson0:34

       So everything feels just-

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Just a little rosy. I had a, I had a pair of rose-colored glasses before, and I got it. I was like, "Oh, I get it."

   19. CWChris Williamson0:39

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       It is better this way.

   21. CWChris Williamson0:40

       It is nicer.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson0:41

       Yeah, yeah, it's like a full-on... Dude, I got... I, I need to show you this, so...

2. 0:44 – 3:04

   An Antarctica lighter, “weed on the ice,” and the flat-Earth “Final Experiment” setup

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:44

      Okay. What is this?

   2. CWChris Williamson0:45

      Have a little open of that. So you'll remember that I sent you a photo on iMessage a couple of months ago of a friend of mine who was in Antarctica?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:55

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:56

      And he flew a Comedy Mothership lighter out to Antarctica.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00

      (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson1:01

      I've been reliably told that that lighter was used to smoke weed in Antarctica.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:06

      In Antarctica? Wow.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:06

      Yeah, and it's touched... It was dropped a number of times, so it's touched ancient permafrost.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:10

      Fuck yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:11

       Uh, so-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       What kind of, uh, laws do they have in Antarctica?

   12. CWChris Williamson1:14

       I don't know. Apparently they're liberal.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       Do they have any laws?

   14. CWChris Williamson1:16

       Uh, fuck knows. I don't know. I don't know if it's-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       There's nobody there. Have they established laws?

   16. CWChris Williamson1:19

       They were 400 miles in.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Whoa.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:22

       Uh, so this was part of the final experiment, which was this attempt to try and disprove flat Earth.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       Oh. (laughs)

   20. CWChris Williamson1:30

       He went as a part of that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       Did he bring flat-Earthers? Is that the deal?

   22. CWChris Williamson1:34

       So-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:35

       Four flat-Earthers, four globeies, globe-Earthers get flown to Antarctica. It's $35,000 per person.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:42

       Oh, my God.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:43

       And it was a- this guy called Will Duffy put the project together, flew everybody down there.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       Did he pay for each person?

   28. CWChris Williamson1:49

       Yep, yep. So-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:50

       Wow.

   30. CWChris Williamson1:50

       Uh, I think it... Maybe a couple of people chose to go self-funded, but they were trying to get... They open-offered to all of the biggest flat Earth influencers, commentators-
3. 3:04 – 5:50

   Drone footage, “Antarctic pyramids,” and conspiracy-adjacent curiosity

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:04

      (laughs) It's so... 'Cause, you know, there's a bunch of things up there that look like pyramids, and what it really is, is just an unusual peak of an enormous mountain. Have you seen the Antarctic pyramids? Yeah, you gotta go all in on that.

   2. CWChris Williamson3:17

      Okay.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      (laughs)

   4. CWChris Williamson3:18

      Jamie fucking-

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:19

      There's, there's people that believe-

   6. CWChris Williamson3:19

      We have hard launched, hard launched this episode.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:22

      ... people that believe wild shit about Antarctica. So you know about the direct energy weapon theory, right?

   8. CWChris Williamson3:28

      Yes, I did see that on Shawn Ryan's show.

   9. JRJoe Rogan3:30

      Yes, I did as well. I was like, "Okay."

   10. CWChris Williamson3:32

       That guy's fucking really interesting.

   11. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       Yeah. It's like, uh, g- w- he sounds really interesting, but if... I once sit him next to Eric Weinstein.

   12. CWChris Williamson3:41

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       You know what I'm saying? Like, is there anyth- is, is anything this guy's saying make any sense? 'Cause I've, I've done that before with Eric, with one guy who was a fraudster. I sent him a video and I said, "Tell me if this is gobbledygook or if this is-"

   14. CWChris Williamson3:53

       You use-

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       "... like, real physics."

   16. CWChris Williamson3:54

       ... Eric to stress test some guy's ideas.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:56

       Oh yeah, of course. He loves it. He lo- he loves any sort of intellectual stimulation-

   18. CWChris Williamson4:00

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:01

       ... and especially if it's, like, mathematics or physics or something where it's his wheelhouse and, you know, his gr- 'cause you can s- someone can sound really good to me, you know? Like, they could start quoting thermal dynamics-

   20. CWChris Williamson4:14

       Finessing you through whatever the problem is.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:16

       Li- like chiropractors do. You know chiropractors use all these crazy, weird terms for musculature and d- and different insertion points? It's to let you know that they have a comprehensive understanding of the body that's far beyond yours, Chris. And this is the same thing, like, a lot of fraudsters do. Th- they'll use enormous language and very verbose, you know, phrases and-

   22. CWChris Williamson4:41

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan4:41

       ... it's like they're just trying to get you to think that they're smarter than they are.

   24. CWChris Williamson4:47

       Yeah, I think people use sort of complex language and fluency as a proxy for truthfulness and insight.

   25. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       Yes, yes. And especially when... If you're dealing with a truly brilliant person, they can't... That's why the pyramids-

   26. CWChris Williamson4:58

       Oh, holy fuck.

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson4:58

       Oh, this is just on Google Maps.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:00

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson5:00

       Jamie, you've just gone to Google Maps to find this?
4. 5:50 – 10:47

   Giza “new pyramid” claims: underground structures, LiDAR/SAR hype, and instant pushback

   1. CWChris Williamson5:50

      I don't know. I don't know. They had a bad time. Um, but yeah, it's, it's... That's been pretty wild. Talking of pyramids, dude, this new pyramid shit that's just come out?

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:00

      Oh, this is insane. Yeah, I was gonna send this to you as well, Jamie. I'll send you one of the most comprehensive breakdowns of it on X because it's quite stunning. So apparently, through the use of LiDAR, they have discovered that there are enormous structures underneath the Great Pyramid that go...... kilometers deep into the earth with coils, so enormous pillars and then these coils. They don't understand what it is, 'cause they're all looking, they're just looking at LiDAR images. But whatever this is, is a uniform structure. There's several pillars and, uh, all of this is, like, very, very, very weird.

   3. CWChris Williamson6:41

      Yeah. 600 meters descending down those cylinders, and then there's more stuff below it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:46

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson6:46

      And then there's additional structures inside of it. Yeah. That was crazy.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:50

      It's really crazy. There's a guy, Jay Anderson, and he did, uh, a breakdown of it. Maybe this would be good. We could play this. Um, it makes a little more sense, when someone's explaining it to you.

   7. CWChris Williamson7:03

      Well, yeah. I mean, we need-

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:04

      (clears throat) But it's-

   9. CWChris Williamson7:04

      ... somebody that's an expert here, not me and you.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:06

       Zawi Hawass, by the way, has said it's nonsense, so I'm gonna play it.

   11. CWChris Williamson7:09

       Already?

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:10

       Yes. According to Graham Hancock. This is the wonderful thing about having Graham Hancock ...

   13. CWChris Williamson7:13

       I texted Graham yesterday.

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson7:14

       I was like, "Yo, what, what's going on with this?"

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:16

       Yeah. So click on that and go full screen, please. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. There are times in life when it's better to make that big purchase, like buying a car for job opportunities or a home to build equity. I- if you're smart with your money, it could pay off big time in the long run. Those aren't the only things you should be investing in, though. It's just as important that you take care of you and your health. That includes your mental health, and you could be smart with your money here too. Use BetterHelp. Traditional in-person therapy can cost between $100 to $250 a month, but BetterHelp online therapy can help you save an average of up to 50% per session. Plus, this March, they're giving you an even bigger discount on starting therapy, one of the biggest I've offered on this show with 90% off your first week. Therapy can help with a lot of different things. It can help you work through trauma, develop positive coping skills, mindfulness, and more. Everyone can benefit from it. Whatever you wanna work on, BetterHelp has you covered. They have a network of over 30,000 therapists, one of the largest online therapy platforms in the world. And since everything is online, it's easy to work it into your schedule. With just a few clicks, you can start a session. Your wellbeing is worth it. For a limited time, visit betterhelp.com/jre to get 90% off your first week. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, .com/jre.

   17. NANarrator8:49

       How significant of a discovery this is. (dramatic music)

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       Dun, dun, dun. I love the music. And geometry, so you know it's real.

   19. CWChris Williamson8:59

       Got to appreciate the dramatic intro.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:01

       Project Unity.

   21. NANarrator9:05

       What has just been announced in relation to the pyramids at the Giza Plateau and the plateau itself is so incredible, so awe-inspiring and narrative-shattering that I have been sitting here for the last hour trying to wrap my head around the implications of what we were just told. So, this is pretty much breaking news because the new findings were announced on the 16th of March at a press conference held by the team who were studying the Great Pyramid of Giza with a non-invasive technology that was first developed by, uh, Filippo Biondi and Corrado Malanga called synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography.

   22. CWChris Williamson9:43

       Fuck, that's a mouthful.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       Whoo.

   24. NANarrator9:44

       This was used to explore the internal structure-

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       Chiropractor talk. (laughs)

   26. NANarrator9:46

       ... of the Great Pyramid of Giza. And this method leverages the analysis of-

   27. CWChris Williamson9:51

       (laughs)

   28. NANarrator9:51

       ... micro-movements typically generated by background seismic activity to achieve a high-resolution, full 3D tomographic imagery of the pyramid's interior and subsurface components. The recent findings from deploying this technology are nothing short of mind-blowing because what's been discovered is that there are huge structures coming down from the base-

   29. CWChris Williamson10:16

       Whoa.

   30. NANarrator10:16

       ... of the pyramid, deep into the bedrock. In fact, over 600 meters deep, which then connects to structures that extend up to two kilometers below the surface of the ground.
5. 10:47 – 18:14

   Graham Hancock, Atlantis smears, and the politics of academic gatekeeping

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:47

      Zawi Hawass is the head of antiquities in, in Egypt. He's, like, the head guy that talks to the archeologists and gives the official narrative. In the pr- in the past, he's been extremely hostile to Graham Hancock, but Graham Hancock and him n- have now become friends.

   2. CWChris Williamson11:04

      Oh, yes. I do know this guy.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:05

      And they're coor- coordinating. Graham is a lovely guy. Uh, people that, like, uh, are enemies with him just need to get to know him and hang out with him. He's a genuine, r- real human being who's trying to find the truth. He's, he doesn't have fake narratives. And he's so sensitive, too. Like, he's so upset, like, when, when people smeared him. Like, the Atlantis thing, they were trying to say it's a white supremacist idea to look for Atlantis. He's like, "What are you talking about?"

   4. CWChris Williamson11:32

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:32

      Like, "What are you talking about?" Like, we had this guy, Flint Dibble, on, who, uh, in an article, and he was d- talking about Graham, and he's connecting Graham to white supremacy and all, all this l- crazy shit because of the Atlantis theory. It's wha- the way they dismiss Atlantis-

   6. CWChris Williamson11:47

      Because it pedestalizes white heritage.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:50

      Because some people in the past, some people in the past who have theorized about Atlantis had white supremacist ideas, but also, most people didn't. Like, Plato didn't. Like, the people that talked about this place, it's in Subsaharan Africa. I mean, it's like, the least white supremacist discovery of all time, as are the pyramids. This is Africa. It's the least white supremacist notion of all time that this inc- incredibly advanced ancient civilization had reached some sort of proficiency that's above and beyond what we, we attribute to them.

   8. CWChris Williamson12:26

      Hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:26

      And I think Graham is right.

   10. CWChris Williamson12:28

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:28

       And I think, uh, there's a lot of other people that are right, too, that are, uh, chasing this down. And, um...... Christopher Dunn, uh, had long ago theorized and wrote a book that he believes that the Great Pyramid of Giza is a gigantic power plant. He thinks it generates power and he has an, uh, a very, l- like an, like a working theory of why it's built the way it's built that totally coincides with the ability to produce hydrogen, the ability to utilize the, the rays of space and, and, and try to find some way to generate el- electricity through this.

   12. CWChris Williamson13:06

       Yeah. I th- the association of other people that we don't like talked about this thing-

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:12

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson13:12

       ... therefore anybody else that talks about this thing-

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:14

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson13:14

       ... is immediately attached to them just seems like a very lazy way to sort of smear people. Uh, it's j- it's a, it's lazy thinking.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:21

       It is, it's gross. It's, it's beyond lazy. It's not lazy. It's really cheap. It's like they're cheap insults. And it's also from academia, which is so disappointing. You know, I mean, academia has been so captured by this mind virus of leftism that it's just, it's so bizarre to watch the brightest minds and the people that we lean on for rational, reasonable thinking and, uh, an objective understanding of the world, w- we lean on the experts. And when they're calling someone a white supremacist for talking about an advanced society that lived in Africa ... (laughs)

   18. CWChris Williamson13:58

       There's a lot of ways that you can put your foot in it. There's this woman, Corey Clark, who sent a survey to every psychology professor in the US and asked them questions like, "What is more important? Uh, the truth? Or ensuring that, uh, equity is, is promoted?" And a lot of professors basically said, "I self-censor. I would prioritize making people feel good over necessarily telling them the truth."

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:26

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson14:26

       "There are certain, uh, opinions that people should be reported for. There are certain, uh, topics that basically shouldn't be discussed." The, the usual suspect stuff like behavioral genetics, so heritability-

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:36

       Right.

   22. CWChris Williamson14:36

       ... uh, evolutionary psychology as in, uh, anything that kinda relates to sex differences. And, uh, yeah, it really is retarding the progress-

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:45

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson14:46

       ... of every ... And you think, well, trickling down from this, what sort of educated society are you gonna have in future? It's not gonna be particularly good.

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:55

       Well, I think it's gonna encourage independent education. I think you're gonna en- encourage people like, uh, University of Austin, which is, uh, they're aiming to do just that and to d- kind of bypass all this nonsense and just teach people reality. Um, and I also think that it's most likely ... I mean, I don't even wanna say most likely. It's most certainly influenced by other countries that wanna degrade our ability to develop meaningful minds that come out of universities, like i- intelligent, useful people.

   26. CWChris Williamson15:30

       Distract them with social justice.

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       Yeah. Not just distract them, but destroy society with them. It's Yuri Bezmenov's prediction from 1984. It's like you could pass that off as a ridiculous conspiracy theory i- if, if it wasn't totally accurate. (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson15:44

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       It's like-

   30. CWChris Williamson15:46

       How-
6. 18:14 – 24:07

   John Cleese on extremism: enemies, moral licensing, and why moderates get targeted

   1. NANarrator18:14

      We've heard a lot about extremism recently, a nastier, harsher atmosphere everywhere, more abuse and bovverboy behavior, less friendliness and tolerance and respect for opponents. All right, but what we never hear about extremism is its advantages. Well, the biggest advantage of extremism is that it makes you feel good because it provides you with enemies.

   2. CWChris Williamson18:37

      Mm.

   3. NANarrator18:37

      Let me explain.

   4. CWChris Williamson18:38

      Mm.

   5. NANarrator18:38

      The great thing about having enemies is that you can pretend that all the badness in the whole world is in your enemies, and all the goodness in the whole world is in you. Attractive, isn't it? So, if you have a lot of anger and resentment in you anyway, and you therefore enjoy abusing people, then you can pretend that you're only doing it because these enemies of yours are such very bad persons. And that if it wasn't for them, you'd actually be good-natured and courteous and rational all the time. So, if you want to feel good, become an extremist. Okay. Now you have a choice. If you join the hard left, they'll give you their list of authorized enemies. Almost all kinds of authority, especially the police, the city, Americans, judges, multinational corporations, public schools, furriers, newspaper owners, fox hunters, generals, class traitors, and, of course, moderates.

   6. CWChris Williamson19:35

      (laughs)

   7. NANarrator19:36

      Or, if you'd rather be an extremist on the hard right-

   8. CWChris Williamson19:39

      I bet the moderates are in there again (laughs) .

   9. NANarrator19:40

      ... no problem, fine, you still get a lovely list of enemies, only they're different ones. Noisy minority groups, unions, Russia, weirdos, demonstrators, welfare spongers, meddlesome clergy, peaceniks, the BBC, strikers, social workers, communists, and, of course-

   10. CWChris Williamson19:58

       (laughs)

   11. NANarrator19:58

       ... moderates.

   12. JRJoe Rogan20:00

       (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson20:00

       (laughs)

   14. NANarrator20:00

       And upstart actors. Now, once you're armed with one of these super lists of enemies, you can be as nasty as you like, and yet feel your behaviors morally justified. So, you can strut around, a- abusing people and telling them you could eat them for breakfast, and still think of yourself as a champion of the truth. A- a- a fighter for the greater good, and not the rather sad, paranoid schizoid that you really are.

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:24

       (laughs)

   16. NANarrator20:24

       Seriously.

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:24

       Brilliant. Brilliant.

   18. CWChris Williamson20:25

       That's so good.

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:26

       Brilliant.

   20. CWChris Williamson20:27

       Yeah, I remember-

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:28

       Pre-social media.

   22. CWChris Williamson20:30

       But the dynamic is still the same, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:31

       Right, it's just amplified now, so much so that it's a part of everyone's life.

   24. CWChris Williamson20:35

       So many people's morality stands on the shoulders of somebody that's fallen behind. Right? It's, "Look at how much- Look at how bad that person is."

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:43

       Uh-huh.

   26. CWChris Williamson20:43

       "Don't- you don't need to look at me." And I think that if people start pointing at out-groups, and they bind their group together over the mutual hatred of an out-group, that's usually an indication, and like, I should look a little bit closer at you. Like, who might be a good e- example? Lizzo.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:00

       (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson21:02

       Didn't think I was gonna go there (laughs) .

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:03

       (laughs)

   30. CWChris Williamson21:04

       Lizzo, um, talking about how she was in support of these bigger girls-
7. 24:07 – 36:27

   Online pile-ons, “criticism capture,” and why outrage reshapes creators and audiences

   1. CWChris Williamson24:07

      You know what I don't like about that sort of level of aggressive criticism? I think I'm, uh, you could describe me as a criticism hyper-responder. I'm someone for whom it, it probably impacts me more than it should do, certainly more than it should do for someone who gets as- the level of attention that I've managed to get myself to now.

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:22

      Right.

   3. CWChris Williamson24:23

      Um, and what I don't like about it is, it causes people like me to be way less confident in their own positions. Because you think, "Oh, well, most people..." If- if it was me, I would only give feedback if I was really certain, and if I had this person's best interests at heart, and if I wanted them to do better and if I actually knew what I was talking about.... then I would tell this person what I think about them-

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:44

      Right.

   5. CWChris Williamson24:44

      ... and what I think about what they're saying.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:45

      Right.

   7. CWChris Williamson24:45

      And if you apply that rubric to everybody else that gives you criticism, you give, uh, undue, unfair expertise and, uh, legitimacy to people who don't have your best interests at heart. They don't understand what you're trying to do, they don't care about you, they don't get it, and, uh, it causes a lot of people... Basically, I think that, uh, criticism killed more dreams than a lack of competence ever did-

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:08

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson25:08

      ... because people are just, "I- I- I'm worried about pushing these boundaries too much."

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:12

       Sure.

   11. CWChris Williamson25:12

       "This person, all of my friends tell me the truth, why isn't this person on the internet?" Uh, there's this idea from Ethan Kross called criticism capture. So you'll have heard of audience capture, right?

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:21

       Yes.

   13. CWChris Williamson25:21

       Where a, a creator starts feeding red meat to the audience, it becomes very predictable.

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       Yes.

   15. CWChris Williamson25:25

       Criticism capture basically says it's not the compliments, but the criticisms that are more warping, that over time what you end up doing is changing the way that you speak, you become a flame sword, flaming sword wielding, card carrying member that's as aggressive as possible to push back against it. Or you go the other way and you begin to caveat very aggressively. You start to dampen down all of your opinions so that nobody can take offense to them. You have these unnecessarily long, uh, sort of diatribes, this sort of weird land acknowledgement, "Well, we must remember that women are struggling with the thing and we have to do memories."

   16. JRJoe Rogan26:02

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson26:02

       "But now we've got that outta the way, let's talk about men's problems," or whatever it might be.

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:05

       Yes.

   19. CWChris Williamson26:05

       And, uh-

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:06

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson26:06

       ... yeah, I think... I, I just wish that the internet was a little bit more positive sum as opposed to negative sum. And I understand that people bind together over mutual hatreds of out groups. Like, the oldest story in human history is, "That group of people are different to us."

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:20

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson26:21

       "Let's get 'em."

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:22

       The oldest story in history. I mean, it's, uh, it's tribal genetics. It's, like, baked into our DNA, literally. And y- it can be manipulated. And when people are doing it and they're doing it w- with a very obvious distortion of your actual position just to label you as the worst possible, least charitable version of you that could ever be remotely considered. You see that all the time, where people are just trying to distort a narrative. You're seeing that right now with Elon, right? You're, you're seeing people justify violence and extreme vandalism, and you're seeing people cheer it on, and it's very strange. There was a, a thing on The Daily Show where the host was talking about the attacks on Tesla, and people keying people's... And the audience starts clapping and cheering. It's so strange. It's so fucking strange. And it's also just shows you how positions just completely flip-flop. Like, the Tesla used to be the car that you drove to let everybody know that you were environmentally conscious and you were a good leftist.

   25. CWChris Williamson27:33

       Yeah, it's a good question. Do we care about the environment or not? Because those fumes that are being kicked out of that-

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:37

       (laughs) It's like a-

   27. CWChris Williamson27:38

       ... are not good.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:38

       ... a thousand jet airplanes flying overhead for a year.

   29. CWChris Williamson27:42

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:44

       (laughs)
8. 36:27 – 39:56

   Tesla backlash, NGO funding claims, and the politics of protest narratives

   1. CWChris Williamson36:27

      That was something that I noticed, a trend that I've noticed over the last couple of years. Um, legacy media is really struggling to garner attention itself. It seems like fewer and fewer people are listening to it. We saw that over the last election. You know, it seems to me like the best way that legacy media ...... can gain traffic is to talk about independent media.

   2. JRJoe Rogan36:49

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson36:49

      How many times-

   4. JRJoe Rogan36:51

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson36:51

      ... are we seeing headlines about Andrew Huberman or about the right wing manosphere pipeline and how it's getting people to do this? Or the other side, like, why is there not a Joe Rogan of the left ... Like, you know, whatever the, whatever the headline is, more and more, the way that legacy media is able to achieve traffic is only in reference to independent media.

   6. JRJoe Rogan37:10

      Yes.

   7. CWChris Williamson37:11

      So then, a- as opposed to us being downstream from them, they're now downstream from us.

   8. JRJoe Rogan37:15

      Yeah. And anything masculine is right wing. Anything. You cannot be masculine. Like, you cannot be interested in physical fitness, anything-

   9. CWChris Williamson37:25

      It's a pipeline to being right wing.

   10. JRJoe Rogan37:26

       Yes. Uh, you can't like fast cars.

   11. CWChris Williamson37:29

       Nope.

   12. JRJoe Rogan37:30

       You're, you're not allowed to... You're not even allowed to like Teslas anymore-

   13. CWChris Williamson37:33

       Misogynist.

   14. JRJoe Rogan37:33

       ... which are the fastest cars.

   15. CWChris Williamson37:35

       Yep.

   16. JRJoe Rogan37:35

       Yeah. You're a misogynist. You're probably racist. Maybe a Nazi.

   17. CWChris Williamson37:38

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan37:39

       I'm gonna put a swastika on your car just to let everybody know. (laughs)

   19. CWChris Williamson37:43

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan37:44

       It's... There was some really fucking stupid graph that someone put up of how right wing, uh, social media and new media people dominate-

   21. CWChris Williamson37:53

       That was the Media Matters study.

   22. JRJoe Rogan37:55

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson37:55

       Yeah. This is interesting.

   24. JRJoe Rogan37:56

       And-

   25. CWChris Williamson37:56

       Jim, can you try and find that?

   26. JRJoe Rogan37:56

       ... I was at the top of the list. I was at the top of the list and I was like, I feel like the way Caitlyn Jenner must have felt like when she won Woman of the Year. Like (laughs) -

   27. CWChris Williamson38:06

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan38:06

       ... it's so quick, I got to the top of the list. (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson38:09

       (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan38:09

       I'm not even right wing. Just 'cause I support Trump, I supported him over the rest of the fucking nonsense that was going on when you're trying to push through someone without even a primary.
9. 39:56 – 45:36

   Independent media vs. legacy media: attention economics and “right-wing dominance” charts

   1. CWChris Williamson39:56

      What are the left wing positions that you still hold?

   2. JRJoe Rogan39:58

      Uh, well, the big one is having some sort of a social safety net. I was on welfare when I was a kid. My family was on food stamps. We were fucking poor as shit, and I remember that helping us a lot. We had food, where I don't know what we would be doing if we didn't... I mean, we, we were in a bad place, and there's social safety nets for people. My f- my family got out of that, and my stepfather and my mother wound up doing well. They did, they did really great, and they, they got out of debt and bought a house and great job and the whole deal. But when I was a little boy, we were fucked. And I think social safety nets are very important for people. It's very, it's very important for society. If you care about people, you care about the whole of society. You don't want people starving when there's ways to develop government programs to make sure people have food. And I think that's... Th- this idea of pull them up by their bootstraps is horseshit. Some people don't have boots.

   3. CWChris Williamson40:59

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan40:59

      They don't have straps. They don't have nothing. They're, they're fucked. They're fucked from the moment they were born. They were born into a bad family environment, in a bad neighborhood, and crime and gangs and drugs, and it's not even playing field.

   5. CWChris Williamson41:14

      Where are you at with healthcare?

   6. JRJoe Rogan41:16

      I think healthcare, 100%, should be socially funded. Um, I think that Medicare and Medicaid, having programs where people who are hurt can get an operation and it's not gonna bankrupt them for the, the rest of their life is another thing that I think society should be... It should be a part of our agreement to take care of each other as a community, that we chip in money for what people would think of as socialist positions. And I always bring up the fire department, because the fire department's one of the best examples that everybody sort of agrees, it's a socialist sort of thing. You give your tax dollars, the tax dollar supports the fire department.

   7. CWChris Williamson41:55

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan41:55

      The fire department fairly puts out fires for everybody.

   9. CWChris Williamson41:57

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan41:58

       They don't not put out your fire-

   11. CWChris Williamson42:00

       They don't discriminate.

   12. JRJoe Rogan42:00

       ... if you don't have any money.

   13. CWChris Williamson42:01

       Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan42:01

       It's not like they don't... The, the fires don't-

   15. CWChris Williamson42:03

       That's such a good example, but when you compare that to the way that medical access is done-

   16. JRJoe Rogan42:07

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson42:07

       ... at least in this country.

   18. JRJoe Rogan42:08

       But, I also believe in competition. I've said this before, I'll say it again. I want my doctor to be a bad motherfucker who drives a Mercedes. I want my doctor to, like, be really good... I want him to be an artist. You know, I wanna go to the guy who fixes the Lakers' knees. You know? That's the guy you want. You want that guy who j- has a nice watch and he lives in a nice house and he kicks ass and he knows how to fucking fix people really well. He's the best at it. And you go to him and you get an operation, and you're fucking golden. That's what you want. When... You, you want competition because competition inspires excellence. You know, being rewarded for your hard work is a, a giant incentive for people to get amazing at things. And you need that. You need that too. But there's also a lot of very-... good doctors who would be very happy to do something that helps the overall greater good of the community. Just like you have really good criminal defense attorneys that are, you know, assigned to you if your, uh, you know, if you're getting unjustly tried and you want a really good one that can help you. You know, there's, there's state-appointed attorneys that are just good people that want to help people. You know, Bill Murray was talking about his daughter, his daughter does that. There's, y- you know, there's room for that with the amount of money that we spend on so many things that we all agree are fucked. And maybe some of that could be freed up with some of this USAID money that they're pulling. I mean, there's nothing wrong with giving people healthcare. Like, if you know anybody that's been injured and was bankrupt because they didn't have insurance and then they had to get some crazy operation, and now they have this enormous debt and they wind up going bankrupt or they're getting chased down for the money for the rest of their life, it's horrible.

   19. CWChris Williamson43:53

       It's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America-

   20. JRJoe Rogan43:55

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson43:56

       ... medical debt.

   22. JRJoe Rogan43:56

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson43:56

       I mean, coming from the UK where we've got the NHS, it feels fucking barbaric.

   24. JRJoe Rogan44:00

       It is a little barbaric.

   25. CWChris Williamson44:00

       It really does feel barbaric. I remember I went to New Orleans and I was getting, uh, this great ghost tour on an evening time, it's like fun tourist shit to do in New Orleans.

   26. JRJoe Rogan44:09

       I do those.

   27. CWChris Williamson44:09

       And, uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan44:10

       (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson44:10

       ... the guy, the guide was so good. My mother was a Wiccan. And I, I don't know if that was true, but this, the tale was lovely. Anyway, and, uh, he was telling me, I've got a, a, a chipped wisdom tooth and my girlfriend, uh, got into a car wreck the other day, and he basically said, he was explaining to me about how you can get bankrupted by this stuff. He's like, "If you get hit by a car and you don't have insurance, you better fucking walk it off. Because if you don't, that could be the end of, essentially, the beginning of the end of your life."

   30. JRJoe Rogan44:36

       Oi.
10. 45:36 – 49:42

    Rogan’s “left-leaning” basics: welfare, social safety nets, and socially funded healthcare

    1. JRJoe Rogan45:36

       But then you see the, the fucking revolving door between the FDA and the pharmaceutical drug corporations, where these people leave and then all of a sudden they have these amazing jobs at pharmaceutical drug companies, they're making millions of dollars. Like, how is that legal? How is this whole thing legal? Like, e- when you realize that doctors are incentivized to medicate people, they're financially incentivized to give people certain medications, whether it's vaccines, they get bonuses if they vaccinate more than 60% of their clients and they lose those bonuses if people don't get vaccinated. There's like, a lot of creepy shit that's involved in medicine.

    2. CWChris Williamson46:14

       The FDA ban on compounded Ozempic started yesterday.

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       Oh.

    4. CWChris Williamson46:20

       So-

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       It's a ban?

    6. CWChris Williamson46:21

       So-

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:22

       So you have to get it from the big, big companies.

    8. CWChris Williamson46:24

       Correct. I, Brigham taught me about this-

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:26

       Mm-hmm.

    10. CWChris Williamson46:26

        I didn't understand how it works. If there's a shortage of a drug, compounding pharmacies are, kind of, allowed to just bypass patents in some way. It's like, you can produce it and you can make it cheaper and more widely available because the supply chain's fucked-

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:37

        Oh.

    12. CWChris Williamson46:37

        ... or something like that. And, uh, yesterday-

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:40

        That would be a good thing for society.

    14. CWChris Williamson46:42

        What? To make more drugs more widely available for cheaper?

    15. JRJoe Rogan46:44

        If it's, if it's good, if it's a very important pharmaceutical drug that can save people's lives-

    16. CWChris Williamson46:48

        Of course.

    17. JRJoe Rogan46:48

        ... imagine, imagine not letting compound pharmacies make it for people that can't get it.

    18. CWChris Williamson46:54

        Yeah, or can't afford it, or don't have the insurance for it.

    19. JRJoe Rogan46:56

        Yeah.

    20. CWChris Williamson46:56

        So yeah, I mean, that, that came into effect, I think Tirzepatide got popped yesterday-

    21. JRJoe Rogan47:00

        (laughs)

    22. CWChris Williamson47:00

        ... and then, uh, partway through April, uh, Semaglutide is gonna go as well.

    23. JRJoe Rogan47:05

        Yeah, that's all just eliminating competition, right?

    24. CWChris Williamson47:08

        Mm-hmm. Well, we need to think, you know, all of the people that are using these drugs, that are, uh, uh, are losing weight with them, whatever, we need to think about who the real, uh, sort of people suffering from this situation are, who are the stock owners of telehealth companies.

    25. JRJoe Rogan47:21

        (laughs)

    26. CWChris Williamson47:21

        (laughs) It's the, if you own Hims or whatever-

    27. JRJoe Rogan47:25

        Yeah.

    28. CWChris Williamson47:25

        ... uh, the stock's declined by a lot. But, uh, dude, I've been thinking so much about Ozempic recently and, um, I think the introduction of Ozempic proves how much of a scam the body positivity movement was all along.

    29. JRJoe Rogan47:36

        Mm-hmm.

    30. CWChris Williamson47:37

        You look at the Golden Globes and all of the women that were supporting their bigger sisters-
11. 49:42 – 1:10:12

    Ozempic access, compounding bans, and the backlash to Hollywood “body positivity”

    1. JRJoe Rogan49:42

       Yeah. I'm in favor of Ozempic for people that are morbidly- morbidly obese. I think anything that can get you on the path, and I think if you can combine that, if you can say, "Okay, this is what I'm doing, so I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna start an exercise program." And then you wind up losing 30, 40 pounds, you feel better, you look better.

    2. CWChris Williamson50:02

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan50:03

       If you can continue this exercise program, you've at least put a healthy thing in your life along with Ozempic. I think that's critical 'cause also that's can, that can mitigate some of the negative effects of... One of the things that we're seeing is that people are losing a lot of muscle mass and a lot of bone mass.

    4. CWChris Williamson50:20

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan50:20

       As much as 30% of the weight that people are losing is muscle and bone.

    6. CWChris Williamson50:23

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan50:24

       And, um, that, I think, could probably be mitigated with regular strength training. You know, you're only hearing about this from people that aren't strength training.

    8. CWChris Williamson50:31

       Do not have a fitness regime. So-

    9. JRJoe Rogan50:33

       Right, right. Be- which is the majority of these people that need this drug in the first place.

    10. CWChris Williamson50:35

        That's how they got fat in the first place.

    11. JRJoe Rogan50:36

        Right, right.

    12. CWChris Williamson50:37

        Yeah, exactly. So, Johann Hari did a really great book on this. You've had Johann-

    13. JRJoe Rogan50:40

        Yeah.

    14. CWChris Williamson50:40

        ... on a bunch of times.

    15. JRJoe Rogan50:41

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. CWChris Williamson50:41

        He wrote this book called Magic Pill, and he's got, uh, just a really nice takeaway. He says, uh, "If you're under BMI of 30 and you're trying to lose weight, go fuck yourself."

    17. JRJoe Rogan50:50

        (laughs)

    18. CWChris Williamson50:50

        Like, if you're between 30 and 35, there's probably a value judgment you need to make.

    19. JRJoe Rogan50:55

        Mm-hmm.

    20. CWChris Williamson50:55

        And if you're over 35 BMI, the cost-benefit analysis seems to, sort of, work in your favor.

    21. JRJoe Rogan51:00

        Yeah.

    22. CWChris Williamson51:00

        Um, yeah, people are losing more, uh, muscle and bone mass from using Ozempic than you would typically if you were not using that. But I think that that's just largely a selection criteria for the sort of people that are using Ozempic to help them lose weight, that they're not having t- they, they're so heavily calorie restricted-

    23. JRJoe Rogan51:18

        Mm-hmm.

    24. CWChris Williamson51:18

        ... that they don't need to have a fitness program.

    25. JRJoe Rogan51:20

        Right.

    26. CWChris Williamson51:20

        They don't have to really change their diet. I learned this, uh, Johann taught me this thing, it's super interesting. Uh, gastric band surgery, after people have that, the suicide risk is- is pretty high. And sometimes it's because of these surgeons that leave the gauze in or, you know, like, leave a scalpel or, like, a fucking cigar end in the-

    27. JRJoe Rogan51:39

        (laughs)

    28. CWChris Williamson51:39

        There's complications that can happen physically. But the other thing that happens is these people used food as their coping mechanism-

    29. JRJoe Rogan51:48

        Right.

    30. CWChris Williamson51:48

        ... for how they would feel better.
12. 1:10:12 – 1:21:04

    Ozempic tradeoffs: muscle loss, side effects, stigma, and the “signal” of fitness

    1. CWChris Williamson1:10:12

       Um, but yeah. The- I- I decided to go and get a sperm count thing done. You know what a varicocele is?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:10:17

       No.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:10:17

       Okay. I... Dude, this is something that I think every single guy needs to know about. So, it's... Basically, when you go through puberty, the way that, uh, the veins sort of form that blow heat off from your balls-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:10:30

       (laughs)

    5. CWChris Williamson1:10:30

       ... they can form in a way where they just don't, um, get rid of the heat that efficiently.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:10:34

       Now they don't cool your balls good.

    7. NANarrator1:10:36

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson1:10:36

       Not- not enough.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:10:37

       Yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:10:37

        And it's in 15% of men, so it's super, super common. But 50% of men that go to a urologist have got this. And I go in and I've had these balls my entire life.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:10:47

        Congratulations.

    12. CWChris Williamson1:10:47

        I've had these balls. Thank you. Uh, I didn't... They're not transplants. Uh, I've had these balls since puberty. And I found out at the age of 36, "Oh. You've got a medium varicocele." So, the mad thing about this is mo- you'll know this. If you take testosterone, it plummets your sperm count. So, typically, testosterone and sperm kind of work against each other, in that kind of a direction. This is the one thing where if you get it fixed, both go up.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:11:13

        Mm.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:11:13

        So, the mean change in testosterone is 180 points.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:11:17

        How do they fix it?

    16. CWChris Williamson1:11:18

        They just, uh... It's surgery. It's a small surgery-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:11:21

        Oh.

    18. CWChris Williamson1:11:21

        ... where they do an incision in your groin, and they just, uh, fix the vasculature. So-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:11:25

        Balls and surgery are two things that I don't like together. I like both of them. I don't think they should be together.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:11:31

        They should be... Ne- never the twain shall meet.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:11:34

        (laughs)

    22. NANarrator1:11:34

        Yeah. I, uh-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:11:34

        Ball surgery is scary. Do you know that if you get your, uh, you can get a dick transplant if, like, you lose your dick, but you cannot get ball transplants. You know why?

    24. CWChris Williamson1:11:43

        No.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:11:44

        Because you will carry the DNA of the original person. So, say, if I die and you get my balls-

    26. CWChris Williamson1:11:50

        Okay.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:11:50

        ... you will have my DNA. You will have my kids.

    28. CWChris Williamson1:11:53

        So, why can't I have your balls?

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:11:54

        Well, you could if I gave you permission, maybe, but it's unethical.

    30. CWChris Williamson1:11:57

        Why don't we swap one ball each?

Episode duration: 2:51:36