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Joe Rogan Experience #2296 - Big Jay Oakerson

Big Jay Oakerson is a stand-up comedian, podcaster, and on-air personality. He co-hosts "The Legion of Skanks," "Story Warz," and "The Bonfire." The first installment of his new crowd work special, "Them," is now available on YouTube. The second part, "They," premieres April 20. https://www.bigjaycomedy.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12MMZ69Z2Y Visit https://blackriflecoffee.com/joe-rogan and use code ROGAN for 30% Off Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit https://gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit https://ccpg.org (CT), or visit https://www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: https://dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 3/30/25 at 11:59 PM ET.

Big Jay OakersonguestJoe Roganhost
Mar 28, 20252h 50mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:26

    Big Jay’s new piercings and the “fighting age” look

    1. BO

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

    4. JR

      Big J.

    5. BO

      ... over here, buddy.

    6. JR

      Rock and roll. What's happening?

    7. BO

      Hell yeah.

    8. JR

      You went with the three nose rings now. You're getting crazy.

    9. BO

      Yeah. It's getting carried away. I went to go... I had a cold, and I think I blew my nose, one of them out.

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. BO

      So then I went to go get it re-put back in, and then I was like, "Throw another one in there while you're at it."

    12. JR

      Fuck it.

    13. BO

      Um, just me fighting age, I think.

    14. JR

      Is that what it is?

    15. BO

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. JR

      There's something weird when you're fighting age. Like, you know you're doing it, but you can't help it. (laughs)

    17. BO

      Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like, when people make fun of m- just the way I dress or whatever, coloring my hair, my piercings, t- And they're always like, it's like, "Is it gonna change at some point?" And I am hitting an age where I'm like, I can't just do a (laughs) hard shift one day. But it is funny to think, like, I can't see myself at 65-

    18. JR

      With painted nails.

    19. BO

      ... doing some of this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. BO

      I don't know.

    22. JR

      Why not? Who gives a shit?

    23. BO

      You can't, but it's also like, I feel if I saw it, I'd have a million and one jokes about it.

    24. JR

      Right.

    25. BO

      But it's still, at the end of the day, you're like... You know, I'd walk out, I'd go, "Oh, I forgot my pocket scarf. I gotta go back upstairs."

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. BO

      (laughs) I forgot my Gouachemals.

    28. JR

      As long as you're still funny, you can pull it off. But when you're bombing with red hair and three nose rings-

    29. BO

      Shit. That's true.

    30. JR

      ... it becomes an issue.

  2. 1:26 – 2:46

    Early standup “costumes” and the sitcom-era comedy mindset

    1. BO

      That's why I think when I first started, I tried to blend in, whatever I was. I started in that black circuit, so like, I had so much Fubu shit on.

    2. JR

      Oh, there you go.

    3. BO

      And just like, yeah, jerseys and stuff, so I definitely played it up. The funniest was having a big silver chain with a cross that I'm Jewish. (laughs)

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. BO

      But I just really was like, "I think they'll like me more if I have a cross."

    6. JR

      When I first started, I thought you had to dress like those guys on Evening at the Improv, so I got a blazer-

    7. BO

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      ... and I rolled the sleeves up. And I had like a wacky T-shirt that I wore.

    9. BO

      (laughs) The costume?

    10. JR

      Yeah, the costume. They have a button on your blazer, some s- wacky button.

    11. BO

      I watched all those shows growing up, Evening at the Improv, Caroline's Comedy Hour. It, the evolution of comedy is insane.

    12. JR

      It's pretty insane. Yeah.

    13. BO

      The evolution of, just like the fact that, uh, these guys... I've watched, uh, like We'll Always Laugh and go back, you know. Check out Bill Kirchenbauer. Do you know that? That was the guy-

    14. JR

      I don't remember him.

    15. BO

      ... he played, uh, he was the coach on a sitcom. He had a sitcom called Just the Ten of Us, where he had like eight kids-

    16. JR

      Oh.

    17. BO

      ... or something, and he was like a coach. It was a spinoff show of some sort. But he was just like a, a zany comic. You know, he just would go on stage, and he was just loud and weird and d- Yeah.

    18. JR

      Oh, yeah. I remember him.

    19. BO

      But these were the guys who made the rounds.

    20. JR

      Right.

    21. BO

      Uh, monologists.

    22. JR

      Yeah. Well, it's almost like their act just got them to a sitcom, like that was a, a real strategy back then. You had an act that could get you to a sitcom. That's all everybody wanted.

  3. 2:46 – 3:45

    Montreal New Faces: forced polish, pressure rituals, and anticlimactic outcomes

    1. BO

      When I did New Faces at Montreal, uh, (laughs) my manager, at the time terrible, uh, just gave me... I mean, he was just pushing the old advice. He was like, everything was like, "Don't be yourself at all." Like, "Write, write a set that's gonna be what's your sitcom, basically, and, uh, and dress, uh, you know, a certain kind of a... Dress like for stage." And I don't know what I was... I didn't know how to like, what he meant in nice clothes, so I had like black loafers and straight-leg, like, dark blue dungarees.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. BO

      (laughs) And like a, and like a short-sleeve, button-down shirt.

    4. JR

      I'm just picturing you with black loafers on.

    5. BO

      And, and, and a, and a short-sleeve, like blue, button-down shirt. It looked ridiculous.

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. BO

      And it was so dramatic. That's also funny too, doing it as long as I have now. 27 years, I think I'm doing it. Like, the, the hilarious, like, fake emotion you put into things. I remember having... My daughter was a baby when I did New Faces, and talking to the picture backstage (laughs) before I went on stage, like-

    8. JR

      Oh, wow.

  4. 3:45 – 4:41

    MTV2 talking-head gigs, censorship lines, and the Fiona Apple joke that stuck

    1. BO

      ... "All right, we're gonna go do it," and then had a mediocre set. And all I got from New Faces was like a MTV2 Talking Head-

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. BO

      ... one-off. Like, "What Were They Thinking?"

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. BO

      Or something. Or, "What Were They Wearing? MTV2 Presents."

    6. JR

      You remember those things?

    7. BO

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JR

      Where you would just start talking shit about people?

    9. BO

      That's it.

    10. JR

      Yeah, and they would, they'd just clip it up.

    11. BO

      They took, uh, they wouldn't... I did a, a couple of them. They didn't air most of it. Uh, and the one I always remember, because when I would go back to MTV for anything, they would always be like, "We still pass the, like the segment around of you doing the What Were They Thinking?"

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. BO

      And it was Fiona Apple on an award show years ago. To accept her award, she got there and started quoting. She said, "The great Maya Angelou," or something.

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. BO

      And I was like, "Maya Angelou?" I was like, "What is she talking about Maya Angelou for?" They're, "Look, we all loved her as Wheezy Jefferson, and I enjoyed her pancake syrup, but..."

    16. JR

      (laughs)

    17. BO

      And then they were like, "Yo." (laughs)

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. BO

      Like, "You can't call Maya Angelou Aunt Jemima." I'm like, "But I'm kidding."

    20. JR

      Oh, yeah, yeah.

    21. BO

      I'm like, "But I'm kidding, though. I know who Maya Angelou is."

  5. 4:41 – 6:21

    Aunt Jemima, brand cleanups, and seeing the actual old racist ad copy

    1. JR

      Wasn't it funny that they, they took Aunt Jemima off of Aunt Jemima?

    2. BO

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      But that was a actual lady who was an entrepreneur.

    4. BO

      Wait, right, yeah, and they just could get rid of it because no one's paying attention to why?

    5. JR

      No.

    6. BO

      They just go-

    7. JR

      They, they just decided it was racist.

    8. BO

      "Black people don't dress like that anymore."

    9. JR

      They just decided that Aunt Jemima was racist.

    10. BO

      Uncle Ben?

    11. JR

      But, uh, but that's true, right? I mean, this, this is not a TikTok myth, is it? Make sure that's true.

    12. NA

      Brought to you by-

    13. JR

      Am I, I might've, uh, I got, my, might've got fooled by TikTok.

    14. NA

      Which part?

    15. JR

      Oh, I should say Reels, 'cause I'm not really on TikTok.

    16. NA

      Which, which part though?

    17. JR

      Uh, whether or not Aunt Jemima was, uh, a real entrepreneur. I'm pretty sure it's true. I think, I think it's based on a real woman.

    18. BO

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      And I think she just was like an awesome cook, and put together some fucking pancake shit.

    20. BO

      Some great pancakes?

    21. NA

      Yeah, there's a lady. The, the, Nancy Green, it says.

    22. JR

      Oh, so her name wasn't Jemima?

    23. NA

      Right there.

    24. JR

      That's the real lady?

    25. NA

      I mean, I, this is the first ads, I guess. So-

    26. BO

      You could tell me that's-

    27. JR

      Oh, boy.

    28. NA

      ... you could tell me that's a news feature.

    29. JR

      Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up.

    30. BO

      That looks like racist propaganda. (laughs)

  6. 6:21 – 8:14

    Racist art in context: Dr. Seuss, R. Crumb, and ‘that was a different time’

    1. BO

      I was looking at an art gallery in Philly recently that had like a Dr. Seuss, uh, exhibit at it. And I forgot that Dr. Seuss had all those like crazy racist drawings and stuff.

    2. JR

      Right. What were they? What were they?

    3. BO

      It was just like, you know, a, a hunter, like with like a savage-

    4. JR

      Oh, that's right.

    5. BO

      ... with like giant lips and stuff like that.

    6. JR

      That's right. You know what's like the most crazy racist shit that caught me off guard was R. Crumb.

    7. BO

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      You know R. Crumb, the like '70s-

    9. BO

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... sort of psychedelic comic book guy? Um, he was very popular when I was a kid living in San Francisco. Um, and when I was an artist, and I was like, I used to love his stuff 'cause they're like, "God, this guy is so weird." And then I saw some of the, like the super racist ones, and you're like, "Yo."

    11. BO

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      "What the fuck?" Like-

    13. BO

      It's, it really is, the ex- explanation is like, "That was a different time." (laughs)

    14. JR

      So he had some just weird shit, man. Like he liked riding on giant women. You ever see the, um, documentary they did on him?

    15. BO

      No, but I know what it is. Yeah. No, I've never seen it though.

    16. JR

      It's very interesting. It's like-

    17. BO

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      ... he, 'cause his brother is super weird, and his mother is super weird. And, you know, here's this guy like wearing a tie, and he's a real pervert. And he's like openly a pervert, but like a brilliant artist.

    19. BO

      That's great, yeah, R. Crumb.

    20. JR

      Really fascinating.

    21. BO

      I've heard of it before. It is amazing though the st- I was, I went to a, uh, a musician, a musician's house for New Year's Eve when I first moved to New York, so 20 some years ago. And then he just invited me and Kurt Metzger, and we went to his, uh, apartment, and it was s- covered in like Sambo paintings, like real s-

    22. JR

      Oh, geez.

    23. BO

      But there was like Black people at the party. It was just like, "Yeah, it's art." And I'm like, "F-"

    24. JR

      Kinda.

    25. BO

      I don't know if I'd cover my house and something I had to explain every one of them to people. I go, "No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no."

    26. JR

      (laughs) yeah, you have a lot of choices. You could have puppies, flowers. (laughs)

  7. 8:14 – 9:42

    Swastika tattoos, bad youthful choices, and the ‘wait…they still wear short sleeves?’ problem

    1. BO

      I just think it's so funny when someone makes, uh, strong decisions if they like change their ways. I, I used to drive, uh, strippers to bachelor parties to be the bouncer with zero skills to handle that whatsoever. I took the job as like fat kid that wanted to see naked girls for free.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. BO

      And I ended up at a bachelor party with two brothers. It was one of the brother's thing, and he was covered in like swastika tattoos-

    4. JR

      Oh.

    5. BO

      ... and all kinds of crazy shit. And the, the strippers were not both white for sure, but there's also Black people at this party and stuff like that. And I don't know the explanation these guys have to give, but I talked to one of their Black friends and was like, "Hey, is it weird to ask? But like these guys are all covered in like swastika and racist tattoos." And they're like, "Oh yeah, they just got caught up in some bullshit when they were teenagers. They're good dudes."

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. BO

      I'm like, "Wow. And they're still wearing short sleeve shirts, huh? That seems strange." (laughs) Like you think these guys would be in like, uh, wearing Terrell Owens body suits like to cover that up.

    8. JR

      It's like one of the arguments why you shouldn't be able to get a tattoo until you're 25. Like when you're-

    9. BO

      Is that when the brain's fully formed?

    10. JR

      Yeah, when you're a boy your brain's f- women mature younger, but when you're a boy your brain is fully formed at 25 when you're able to make solid decisions.

    11. BO

      What decisions do girls make for tattoos that are that great though?

    12. JR

      Very few swastikas.

    13. BO

      Very few swastikas probably.

    14. JR

      Like what are the numbers of swastikas on girls versus on dudes.

    15. BO

      Uh.

    16. JR

      Like if we could Google that please. (laughs)

    17. BO

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      What percentage, like what percentage-

    19. BO

      I think it's just that one girl, the character that Fairuza Balk played in American History X.

    20. JR

      (laughs)

  8. 9:42 – 15:06

    American History X and Higher Learning: extreme arcs, alternate endings, and 90s provocation

    1. BO

      Did you... I just read a thing recently, this made me laugh so hard. You know this movie American History X?

    2. JR

      Yes. I remember that movie.

    3. BO

      Uh, some-

    4. JR

      That movie was crazy.

    5. BO

      Great movie, crazy movie. Ending is such a question mark on it.

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. BO

      Um, and if you recall like, you know, he goes to prison, he reforms himself. He comes out, he tries to get his brother-

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. BO

      ... out of that mindset of being a white supremacist. And then he succeeds basically in telling him the story of what happened to him in jail. And then the next day he walks his brother to school, the brother gets killed by a Black kid who shoots him in the chest, and he dies. And then, uh, he goes in to save him, or he goes in there and just cries, screaming like, "What have I done?" You know-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. BO

      ... his brother's dead now. And then they, they end the movie. The director, who apparently was a lunatic, him and Edward Norton like fought the whole time-

    12. JR

      Oh, really?

    13. BO

      ... over like how the movie should go. But the director's ending he wanted to do (laughs) was, uh, after the brother gets shot by the, by the Black kid, they were gonna show Edward Norton in the mirror and then with the big swastika tattoo on him, and then he was gonna smirk in the mirror and walk off. And I was like, "They should have played Back in Black after that."

    14. JR

      (singing) He's back.

    15. BO

      I'm back.

    16. JR

      And he's racister than ever.

    17. BO

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      I was almost gonna get it removed.

    19. BO

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      Just imagine being-

    21. BO

      He's smiling in a... Can you imagine?

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. BO

      Having a Schwarzenegger movie ending to American History X. (laughs)

    24. JR

      That is so crazy that he wanted to do that.

    25. BO

      I mean, not the song, but that is-

    26. JR

      Yeah, but the image.

    27. BO

      ... they, they should have played the song. Yeah.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. BO

      The image of smirking.

    30. JR

      (laughs) The, the song would've been... Everybody would've been so mad. Can you imagine if he cheesed it up just at the end? Like you have this brilliant movie and at the end just total cheese ball, curveball ending.

  9. 15:06 – 17:41

    Modern ‘message’ TV vs. plausibility: Netflix’s Adolescence and radicalization narratives

    1. BO

      I just watched that Adolescence thing, which I thought was a-

    2. JR

      What is Adolescence?

    3. BO

      It's this, uh, new... It's a four-part, like, miniseries on Netflix. It's British. I'm like... I watch things so open-minded and just looking to be entertained that I miss messages a lot. But by the third episode, I realized w-... It's about a little boy gets immediately accused of, uh, that's how it starts, of killing a classmate and he's getting arrested. Each episode is one shot. To me it's like a play and the acting is unbelievable. But the... what it whittles down to, it's apparently like a, uh... from the, the videos I watched beyond, like, this show explained, 'cause I look at all those, and it was like an anti, like, toxic masculinity, like, message.

    4. JR

      Oh.

    5. BO

      And the idea was just, like, the kid's watched porn and his dad's a tough guy, so that's why-

    6. JR

      So he thought about it-

    7. BO

      ... he thought he can kill a woman or why he can kill a girl.

    8. JR

      Wow.

    9. BO

      And they shout out, uh... And, again, this... I don't know a lot of this guy's stuff other than the basic idea, but they shout out Andrew Tate in it. When I heard that name, I was like, "Oh, that's what this is." This is going back there.

    10. JR

      But here's the thing. There is... That could be a real guy. Like, that's less preposterous than the white power group on campus.

    11. BO

      Oh, yeah, yeah, no doubt.

    12. JR

      Like, like, there's kids that get radicalized. They get a, uh, an evil parent who, you know, who fucking-

    13. BO

      But they, they didn't really make it that the dad was evil. They were making it more like the porn and, like, the idea that, like-

    14. JR

      Well, that too.

    15. BO

      ... that mom should be in line and cooking.

    16. JR

      There's these guys who grow up without a mom. Those guys can def-... If they have a shitty dad and no mom, those guys could definitely be s-... And if you have psycho in your DNA.

    17. BO

      I had too much mom. (laughs)

    18. JR

      (laughs) No, you didn't. No, you had the perfect amount to make you.

    19. BO

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      This episode is brought to you by my friends at Black Rifle Coffee. That's all I drink, folks. If you see me drinking coffee in the studio, it's Black Rifle Coffee. It's 'cause of my friend Evan Hafer wh- who owns the company. I love him to death. And they make the best coffee in the world. They put together the best energy drink in America. Made with 200 milligrams of naturally sourced caffeine, low calories, and absolutely zero sugar. It's available in four new delicious flavors: Project Mango, Ranger Berry, Freedom Punch, and White Frost. Veteran-founded and veteran-led, each Black Rifle Coffee purchase you make helps them give back to those who serve our nation. Shop now at blackriflecoffee.com/joerogan with the code ROGAN for 30% off. Or visit your local grocery and convenience stores. Black Rifle Coffee, America's coffee. (clears throat)

  10. 17:41 – 19:34

    Nostalgia TV, celebrity glow, and the slippery slope of cosmetic surgery

    1. BO

      I had a... I had little dad, lots of mom, just tendencies when I... And my step-pop, man, he swooped in and saved my ass from really being as, as twirly as possible without being into cocks.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. BO

      (laughs) I mean, I was right-

    4. JR

      That's hilarious.

    5. BO

      ... there primed for the take and I'm sitting there laying on my tummy as a kid watching Falcon Crest in Dallas with my mom.

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. BO

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      Oh my God. I can see it.

    9. BO

      That's what I know Lorenzo Lamas from-

    10. JR

      I can see it.

    11. BO

      ... Falcon Crest, not Renegade like everybody else.

    12. JR

      Was Renegade the one where he was the karate guy?

    13. BO

      He was the karate guy, uh, but he was, uh, sent... He was a bounty hunter-

    14. JR

      That's right.

    15. BO

      ... on a motorcycle.

    16. JR

      But wasn't he, like, a karate guy too?

    17. BO

      Oh, yeah.

    18. JR

      Am I make... I'm not making that up, right?

    19. BO

      Well, no, no. He would fight his fights with karate.

    20. JR

      That guy was so-

    21. BO

      But Steven-

    22. JR

      ... beautiful.

    23. BO

      He was gorgeous.

    24. JR

      So handsome.

    25. BO

      I know. It really is the, the sadness of a guy that handsome 'cause he got a girl that was smoking hot and then, uh, was it Shauna Sand?

    26. JR

      Look at him.

    27. BO

      ... yeah. Look, he married-

    28. JR

      Look at that hair.

    29. BO

      ... I think he married Shauna Sands, who was like a Playboy girl, and then they break up and she gets crazy surgery. She looks like a lunatic.

    30. JR

      Oh, no.

  11. 19:34 – 28:01

    BBLs, butt implants, and why dick surgery still isn’t ‘solved’

    1. JR

      That cr- surgery is a crazy way to go because you can't see what you look like, it's like anorexics or bodybuilders. You get dysmorphia. You, your brain starts playing tricks on you and you think your lips aren't big enough, and your tits aren't big enough, and your face is... You know, like there's some skin on the side of your ears. You could pull it back, and you tuck this and pull that-

    2. BO

      Sure.

    3. JR

      ... and my ass would stick out more if they put the implants in, and that would probably get me a better, a better guy.

    4. BO

      I'd get a fat ass. I always say it-

    5. JR

      Would you?

    6. BO

      ... I'd crowd-source it. If the audience will pay for it, I'll get a fat ass. (laughs)

    7. JR

      Let's find out what they do 'cause I'm bewildered. So I know that there's an operation where they take fat out of other parts of your body and they stuff it in your ass, and then it l- your ass looks like a bag of cheese.

    8. BO

      (laughs)

    9. JR

      Which is... (laughs)

    10. BO

      There's bad ones.

    11. JR

      I mean, maybe there's good ones. Maybe there's good ones. Maybe I'm being judgemental. There's probably a doctor out there, "Hey, I do it under the surface of the fat so that there's-"

    12. BO

      I know there is.

    13. JR

      "... always a smooth area on top." Some wizard with a BMW. Um, how do they do-

    14. BO

      But at this point, there are good breast implants. At this point, there are.

    15. JR

      (clears throat)

    16. BO

      They exist.

    17. JR

      The- yes. They feel real, but here's the-

    18. BO

      But also, they look real, and they don't have like the, where you have like the, you know, you see ribcage between them?

    19. JR

      Yes. But here's the thing, you are, um, putting something that s- similar to breast tissue where breast tissue would be. So with this, your butt is a muscle.

    20. BO

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      You know? It's like muscle and fat. A male? Why'd you say male, Jamie?

    22. NA

      He's a male.

    23. JR

      How dare you?

    24. NA

      What do you mean? (laughs)

    25. JR

      "Can expect to retain anywhere from 60 to 80% of the fat that is initially transferred into the butt." I like when they say butt like that, I really think they're, you know, professional. (laughs)

    26. BO

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      The fuck are you talking about surgery?

    28. BO

      Into the glutes.

    29. JR

      You're calling s- butt surgery?

    30. BO

      Yeah.

  12. 28:01 – 37:02

    Can you trust professionals? Fertility-clinic scandals and undercover FBI realities

    1. BO

      I don't know. At this point, they expose so many people. Do you believe anybody's r- genuine goodness anymore?

    2. JR

      It's hard to believe. You know, I went down a deep dive looking at, uh, doctors who use their own sperm in, uh, fertility clinics.

    3. BO

      Yeah.

    4. JR

      Because I was, I was researching one, this one case. I was just, you know, I just wanted to find out, like, "God, how did this guy... How'd they catch him? What happened?" And then I found there's, like, hundreds of cases.

    5. BO

      Oh, it's... Yeah, it's got to.

    6. JR

      There's hundreds of cases. There's hundreds of cases of doctors doing this. There's doctors using their own sperm and then people finding out on 23andMe because there's like-

    7. BO

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      ... fucking everybody in the neighborhood's related. They just want-

    9. BO

      It's just their kink just to, like, jerk off in the vials.

    10. JR

      It's just such a crazy thing. There's so many fucking psychos out there. I had this guy on yesterday-

    11. BO

      What are they gonna giggle at while you're injecting a girl with your jizz? Like... (laughs)

    12. JR

      I had this guy on yesterday that spent 25 years as an undercover, uh, FBI guy that infiltrated biker gangs and neo-Nazis. And bro, like, you talk to a guy like that and you start re- like, really wondering like, "What... Where, where's the good in the world?" Like, "How m- how many creeps are there?" Like, how many really fucking psychotic people are out there organizing right now in the world?

    13. BO

      It's a wild thing to go with, like, different groups undercover though too, if they ever overlap someday.

    14. JR

      Bro.

    15. BO

      Like... And you go, "Hey, you were a skinhead two months ago. When'd you become a biker?"

    16. JR

      Yeah, exactly. And this guy is... (clears throat) Look at him. Let me show you a picture of him. Just a big fucking giant dude-

    17. BO

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      ... with a goatee and pulled back hair and tattoos all over his arms. So he, like, blended right in with all these psychos.

    19. BO

      Thank God I used to have a... When I was young, I had a joke about the concept of, like, with the hookers where you have to... They go... Well, if you ask them if they're a cop-

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. BO

      They, they'll tell you.

    22. JR

      You have to tell you.

    23. BO

      They tell you. They go, "They have to tell you or it's entrapment." And I was like, "Then what the fuck is undercover work?"

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. BO

      You guys are doing to sit through, like, five years with the mob. And then one day they go, "Hey, you know, I never even asked you. This is stupid, but are you a cop?" He's like, "Shit, man. Yeah."

    26. JR

      I, I think that was like a-

    27. BO

      "You were at my kid's christening."

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. BO

      "Ah, I know, man. You never asked. I swore at this point, I thought you were never gonna ask."

    30. JR

      I think that was, like, a dumb thing they made up for TV shows.

  13. 37:02 – 39:36

    Great directors, ‘movies with balls,’ and the appeal of disturbing cinema

    1. BO

      You can't make a movie like that with a budget anymore.

    2. JR

      Well, you can't make a movie-

    3. BO

      Every, every movie with balls, it has to be an indie flick. (laughs)

    4. JR

      100%, yeah. Or you have to be some beyond reproach director that they just let do whatever they want, like a Tarantino. Like, there's-

    5. BO

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... no way, uh, Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood went through some sort of an executive focus group.

    7. BO

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      There's no fucking way. He's killing women, smashing their head on a-

    9. BO

      (laughs)

    10. JR

      ... mantle. Spoiler alert. I mean-

    11. BO

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      ... dogs are eating dicks, you know?

    13. BO

      What a brilliant, what a brilliant ending, though.

    14. JR

      Oh, that movie's great.

    15. BO

      It's so good.

    16. JR

      It's so good. I love that movie.

    17. BO

      It's... I don't know if I've seen that final scene where they flip history. Um, I've never had an audience in a movie theater, like, communally laugh like that since the Jackass movies.

    18. JR

      Right, right.

    19. BO

      Like, with Jackass 2. (laughs)

    20. JR

      It was a cheering moment, too. That was a fucking great movie. He's got all bangers. He's the only guy that I could say, as a dir-... Well, there's a few others that you probably could put in that argument that have zero movies where I'm like, "Eh."

    21. BO

      Oh, that have no... Like, everything's good?

    22. JR

      Tarantino? There's not one that I can think of that wasn't-

    23. BO

      I love David Lynch-

    24. JR

      ... fucking awesome.

    25. BO

      ... but he's made some crap. (laughs)

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. BO

      I like a movie that you have to try to figure out, but when you can't figure it out and other people can't figure it out, you're like, "This is just a hunk of shit then." (laughs)

    28. JR

      Right.

    29. BO

      Like, you can't be so artistic that no- nothing makes sense.

    30. JR

      James Cameron done some fucking bangers.

  14. 39:36 – 42:16

    Revenge-movie psychology: John Wick, Sisu, and aging action heroes

    1. JR

      Revenge movies are the fucking best. Why is that? We're so dumb. We like to just sit there and watch this guy kick everybody's ass. "Yeah, fuck him up." (laughs)

    2. BO

      Yeah, it's RoboCop.

    3. JR

      Love it, yeah.

    4. BO

      It's a fantasy.

    5. JR

      Did you ever see Sisu?

    6. BO

      No.

    7. JR

      I think it's my fav-... It's next to John Wick. It's my fav-... It's probably right up there with John Wick as my favorite revenge movie of all time. It's about a guy... And the whole movie has no English in it. It's in World War II. Is it Finland?

    8. NA

      I think so.

    9. JR

      And this dude is a soldier who, uh, retired from the war and became a gold miner and g-... And made a little score and was trying to get to the town with his score, and he runs into the Nazis. And it's so fun. It's so fun because you could tell this guy does not wanna do this, but he's gotta kill everybody.

    10. BO

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      (laughs) And they all get cocky with him.

    12. NA

      (laughs)

    13. BO

      What do you think the mindset is-

    14. NA

      We got gold.

    15. NA

      (grunts) (head thuds)

    16. BO

      Noice.

    17. NA

      Ah. (grunts) (head thuds)

    18. JR

      So, it turns out this guy was, like, famous in the war for being impossible to kill. He has scars all over his body. He's, like, the absolute worst guy, and they found him and he kills everybody. Spoiler alert.

    19. BO

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      And it's fucking great. It's just fun.

    21. BO

      What do you think the mindset is between... bo-... behind, like, a Liam Neeson, who... I mean, there's... A movie comes out almost bimonthly-

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. BO

      ... of him getting revenge for something.

    24. JR

      Hey, it's a living.

    25. BO

      I get... But Bruce Willis started-

    26. JR

      It's better than community theater.

    27. BO

      ... doing that towards the end. Bruce Willis at the end started doing that.

    28. JR

      Did he?

    29. BO

      Yeah, just movies that were just, like, two words or something.

    30. JR

      Well, I think he was suffering from that, um, illness for quite a while. You know what it is? It's called aphasia.

  15. 42:16 – 45:58

    AI fake casting rumors and Big Jay’s Rob Zombie ‘you’ll be fine’ disaster story

    1. JR

      (laughs) It's, um... What was that that you just pulled up, Jamie? That you were showing me?

    2. NA

      They're remaking The Naked Gun.

    3. JR

      They are? With Liam Neeson?

    4. NA

      I guess. I don't know.

    5. JR

      Well-

    6. BO

      They're remaking it?

    7. JR

      There's a few movies that they've... People have gotten a few AI things passed through and everyone takes as real. Like, I've seen a-...

    8. NA

      Oh.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. NA

      I can't even check who's (...)

    11. BO

      I believe those every day.

    12. JR

      Yeah, I saw Keanu Reeves as Dracula. And I was like-

    13. NA

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      ... "Really?"

    15. BO

      (laughs)

    16. JR

      God, they stuck me right in. Like, "Keanu Reeves is gonna be Dracula now?" That's crazy because he was in the Dracula movie back in the day, and he was Dracula's girlfriend's boyfriend.

    17. BO

      They always get me with, like, a, "Rob Zombie is remaking something you love."

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. NA

      (laughs)

    20. BO

      They're always listening.

    21. JR

      Rob Zombie's cool.

    22. BO

      Have you had him on?

    23. JR

      Yeah. He was a cool guy to talk to.

    24. BO

      He was... I toured with him.... I've met him a handful of times. He's good friends with Tom Papa. We've been introduced in that regard. And whenever I see him, it's the blank of, like, "Nope." (laughs) I went on stage right before him the entire tour, and he has no recollection.

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. BO

      One time, um... This is a great story. I was, uh... We had tickets, uh, to go... Sorry, passes to go see Rob Zombie's, I think it was the Halloween, the original Halloween remake he did.

    27. JR

      Oh, yeah.

    28. BO

      And, uh, comedian Julian McCullough had these passes, four of us. It was gonna be me, uh, Nate Bargatze. I'm trying to remember all... Dave Smith (laughs) . Yeah, it was Dave Smith and Julian McCullough. And I'd auditioned for a TV show the morning of that, and it was the first audition I ever did that it went well (laughs) , went really well. And I got it. I got the, uh, the part. It was on... The show was on for two years called Z Rock. But they go... And this is how much acting is not my passion. It was stuff like that. They go, uh, "We need you to come back in at, like, 4:00 for a table read we're gonna do." And all I thought was... I was like, "Shit, that Rob Zombie movie starts at, like, 6:00." I'm like, "How long are we gonna be here for?" They're like, "It should only take an hour or so if... When will you get back here?" And it was going... It was running late when we got back there. So I told Nate Bargatze to go... I'm like, "Hey, go down there and get in line, you know, to make sure we get into this thing. I don't know if they're overselling it or not." And he goes, "All right." So I get out of this thing, and we're... I'm rushing down. We're walking to this movie theater. And I call Nate. Uh, this is (laughs) so defeating. I go, "Hey, are you down there?" He goes, "I don't know if I'm at the right theater." And I went, "Well, what do you mean?" He goes, "I mean, there's a big line for something." And I was like, (sighs) "Go get in that line, Nate." (laughs) And he was like, "Oh, that's it?"

    29. JR

      (laughs)

    30. BO

      So we get there. We're so far back in line, there's no way we're getting into this movie. And I'm like, "Shit." Julian's very handsome, so we sent him up to kind of schmooze the girl up front. No dice. And then I see Rob Zombie walk into the diner next door, and I go, "This might be our chance." I... We just are loosely connected and, you know, maybe I can get him to remember. And we go in there. It's my best interaction with him ever. I, I go up, I go, "Hey, Rob." I go, "Jay Oakerson." I go, "We met through Tom Papa before and blah, blah, blah." And he's like, "Oh, yeah." And he shoots the shit with us for, like, five minutes. And then I go, "Well, anyway, man, I'm really excited for the movie. I hope we get in. You know, we're, like, super far back in line." He goes, "You'll be fine." (laughs) Just so-

  16. 45:58 – 49:48

    Celebrity encounters, shutting down socially, and early radio-era star moments

    1. BO

      There's some people you just don't resonate with in the world, I think-

    2. JR

      Well-

    3. BO

      ... at that time. I don't know. Dave Chappelle's another one. Uh, Dave Chappelle, I've met over the last 25 years a dozen times. I did some punch-ups on season one of, uh, Chappelle's Show. He bumped me and Kurt Metzger off a weekend, uh, in the thing, and we... But we were there, and we hung out with him there. And every time I see him still, it's just completely unfamiliar.

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. BO

      Chris Rock, same thing. I do not make an impression with these people.

    6. JR

      (laughs) That's so weird.

    7. BO

      I also shut down around celebrity.

    8. JR

      Oh, maybe that's it. Maybe you need to-

    9. BO

      So I don't... I'm not a... I, I can't inject, uh, my personality out of the gates, uh, in a situation where I'm, like, intimidated by, like, someone. I'm like, I'm like... Where I go... Not intimidated, but I go, "Man, I really want them to like me."

    10. JR

      Is... Uh, isn't that weird? Because you know so many famous people.

    11. BO

      But, uh... But you know what I mean by, "Want them to li- not like me," but I go-

    12. JR

      I know.

    13. BO

      If I try to be funny and I whiff-

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. BO

      This sucks.

    16. JR

      You just feel nervous.

    17. BO

      Right. So I'm like-

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. BO

      I could just lay low and not take the risk of being not funny by accident. (laughs)

    20. JR

      (laughs) That's hilarious. It's hard to feel like-

    21. BO

      There's no one who intimidates you anymore? I mean, the people you have in here and just strike a conversation with is unbelievable.

    22. JR

      No, people don't intimidate me anymore. They, uh, inspire me. Some people are fascinating. They inspire me.

    23. BO

      Every time I have, like, a big guest coming in that I don't know on, uh... Me and Bobby Kelly on the radio show, and someone's coming in, I get, like... When they're like, "All right, we're gonna go get them now," I'm always like, "Wait. All right, wait. Okay, go get them."

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. BO

      'Cause I'm like, "Shit. Like, what do we even start with?"

    26. JR

      I used to be like that on Opie & Anthony.

    27. BO

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      Yeah. When I'd go on Opie & Anthony and, like, they'd have famous guests there, I'd be like, "Holy shit. You know, that's this guy."

    29. BO

      Oh, yeah.

    30. JR

      "Holy shit. That's that guy."

  17. 49:48 – 53:22

    Why bands can’t recreate classics: Guns N’ Roses, time-travel songs, and iconic riffs

    1. BO

      Do you have any theories on why people can't... Like, classic, amazing bands can't make a classic again? Comedians can still write their best joke.

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. BO

      And it, and it will be accepted.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. BO

      Everyone's looking for that, what's the new thing?

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. BO

      But, like, if Guns N' Roses got everybody back together again and sat in a room for three months, they can't make Welcome to the Jungle again.

    8. JR

      They're not the same guys. You know, that's part of the problem. And then also part of the problem is, I went to see Guns N' Roses in Athens, so I'm in Greece. It was just a total coincidence. I was there with my family and I ran into Axl Rose at a restaurant.

    9. BO

      This is more recent?

    10. JR

      Real recent.

    11. BO

      Okay.

    12. JR

      Like last summer. Or is it z-... Yeah, like last summer? The summer before last? Summer before last, I guess. And, uh, you know, it's one of those weird moments like, "God, I hope he knows who I am."

    13. BO

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      You know what I mean? (laughs) You're like, "I'm gonna go say hi. I'm gonna be a dick." And this is after my friend tried to say hi to him and he got shooed away. So-

    15. BO

      Oh.

    16. JR

      Uh, so I went over to his table and he was like, "Oh, hey man, what's up?" I'm like, "Phew."

    17. BO

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      I go, "R- really nice to meet you. I'm a huge fan." This and that. He goes, "We're doing a concert here tomorrow night. You wanna see 'em?" Like, "Fuck yeah." And so my whole family went to see Guns N' Roses. We were backstage watching. It was amazing. Three-hour performance. These guys are in their 60s.

    19. BO

      Yeah, yeah.

    20. JR

      They're fucking rocking hard for-

    21. BO

      I saw 'em on the New Tour.

    22. JR

      ... three hours. But the thing is, they have so many hits. If, if you want 'em to do all the, the w-... Songs you love, it's gonna take a long time. And if they're gonna add new songs.

    23. BO

      Isn't it crazy too that it's essentially four albums?

    24. JR

      Crazy.

    25. BO

      (laughs) All of that from four albums.

    26. JR

      Bangers.

    27. BO

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      You know?

    29. BO

      But they did great. I was like-

    30. JR

      Oh, my God.

  18. 53:22 – 56:22

    Method acting, Jim Carrey’s extremes, and imagining how bad the past smelled

    1. NA

      (laughs)

    2. JR

      Like again. Right. But like, again, you don't get to be Jim Carrey unless you're outta your fucking mind.

    3. BO

      No. No, he's showing that now too. (laughs)

    4. JR

      You don't, you don't get to be that guy. You don't get to be F- Fire Marshall Bill unless you're outta your fucking mind.

    5. BO

      I'll make a lot of concession for someone's process, but when I watched that documentary about him doing the Andy Kaufman movie and him coming into the makeup thing every day and really, like, screaming and bothering the shit out of everybody. As you see, almost... You see Judd Hirsch's face in the documentary, like, "That's plenty."

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. BO

      "We're good."

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. BO

      "I get it, you have to get into your mode or whatever, but, like, come on."

    10. JR

      Apparently, he would go nutty if he fucked a scene up and, like, smash things.

    11. BO

      Yeah. Exactly.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. BO

      And it's like, this is not the... That was not his personality when he was talking out of his ass cheeks.

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. BO

      You know what I mean? Or when he was doing Vanilla Ice on In Living Color. You know what I mean? Like, that's-

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. BO

      What's that personality shift where you become a guy who's kinda, like, rude to interviewers and stuff like that? Like, it's strange.

    18. JR

      Well, I think when you're trying to get into a character, there's, like, a thing that the, some of these guys do, where they are just that guy the whole time. Like when, when Da-... W- who was it that played Lincoln?

    19. BO

      Daniel Day-Lewis.

    20. JR

      Daniel Day-Lewis, right? Yeah. So when Daniel Day-Lewis was playing Lincoln, he was apparently Lincoln.

    21. BO

      Yeah, they said all day.

    22. JR

      All day long, all the time.

    23. BO

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      So if you're playing Andy Kaufman-

    25. BO

      You shouldn't let him eat, you shouldn't let him eat modern foods then that's catering.

    26. JR

      (laughs) Right.

    27. BO

      "Here's your mutton, Mr. Lincoln."

    28. JR

      Right. You gotta go full old school-

    29. BO

      Shit-

    30. JR

      ... Shit in a hole in the ground, sir.

  19. 56:22 – 59:55

    70s fantasies, cocaine signals, and a wild West Palm comedy afterparty with a narcoleptic driver

    1. JR

      That's why anybody talking about the good old days, shut your stupid mouth. This is the good old days. With th-

    2. BO

      With basic hygiene?

    3. JR

      Yeah, b- books and medicine and shit. What the fuck are you talking about? Oh, I wish I lived back in the 1600s when I died if I broke my ankle.

    4. BO

      No, but if I could have picked a, uh ... Uh, again, for the, it's so hard because, like, moving backwards, you're like, "Well, I would take all the technology of now, of course."

    5. JR

      Well, you can't go anywhere. Then, then you can't make it, like, a hybrid deal.

    6. BO

      No, no, it's not a hybrid deal. But if I was saying if, if I have to just let go of that and see what, what the most fun time would have been to, to be, like, a teenager in 20s, 70s, I think.

    7. JR

      Well, um-

    8. BO

      Just listening to Ambrosia. Fucking, you could wear a silk shirt un-ironically.

    9. JR

      We were all real confused.

    10. BO

      If you were chubby, no one even cared. Chubby guys got pussy in the 70s, if you had a beard.

    11. JR

      Did they?

    12. BO

      As long as you had a beard and some long hair.

    13. JR

      And you knew how to get cocaine.

    14. BO

      Yeah. And if you knew how to get cocaine.

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. BO

      I'd grow a long pinky nail so people wouldn't know my house (laughs) was the party spot.

    17. JR

      (laughs) Yeah, that used to be a thing. You'd see a guy with a long pinky. That long pinky nail was like, "Oh, that guy parties." That was like when y- there was a bad guy in the movie, he had a long pinky.

    18. BO

      A long pinky nail.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. BO

      Which is so gross.

    21. JR

      That's so disgusting. When you think of what, what, that's how bad people want cocaine. They'll snort it off some dude's-

    22. BO

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      ... stinky fucking fingernail.

    24. BO

      Oh, yeah. I went to a, I did a gig opening for Bobby Slayton, uh, years ago at the West Palm Improv, the old West Palm Improv. And, uh-

    25. JR

      That was a great room.

    26. BO

      The guy, yeah, the wide, shallow one.

    27. JR

      Yeah, that was a great room.

    28. BO

      And, uh, I forget the name. It was Joey something was the guy who hosted. But he was, like, local, local legend, this guy. And, uh, he brought us back to his h- He was like, he took us to this strip club and it was like everyone knew him kind of thing.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. BO

      And then brought girls back to his house. And I am always impressed with the level of, like, the person who carries their morbid obesity with, like, a not give a shit. And also have no give a, like, no care that the girls are gonna suck his dick or fuck him because he's got coke.

  20. 59:55 – 1:05:36

    Pimps as pop culture, Girls Gone Wild, Columbia House scams, and how music monetization flipped

    1. JR

      Well, there was a weird time where, for whatever reason, they were kinda celebrating pimps and prostitutes. Like, do you remember Pimps Up, Hoes Down?

    2. BO

      Sure.

    3. JR

      Yeah, I mean, that was, like, a famous documentary.

    4. BO

      Mr. White Folks.

    5. JR

      Mr. White Folks, yeah.

    6. BO

      He was the best. Yeah, I watched all those. Um-

    7. JR

      But they were, like, celebrated. Like, people liked ... And then there was American Pimp. Remember that film?

    8. BO

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. BO

      No, it was-

    11. JR

      It's weird.

    12. BO

      ... it wa- Well, that was like the, the small window of like pro-sexuality and go be whores, girls. And then it immediately became Me Too. That's wh-

    13. JR

      But it was weird.

    14. BO

      What happened to me immediately.

    15. JR

      It was weird though because it was the exploiters of those women. It wasn't like it's okay to be a prostitute. It was it's cool to be the man who exploits all these women and gets them to go be prostitutes for him.

    16. BO

      Well, I think it took 20 some years for people to realize that Joe Francis was a terrible guy. You know what I mean?

    17. JR

      (laughs)

    18. BO

      He was celebrated as, as hell. I just heard a Howard Stern clip the other day where he had Joe Francis on. I'm sure if you ask him about-

    19. JR

      Wow.

    20. BO

      ... Joe Francis now, he'd be like, "What a terrible piece of shit."

    21. JR

      Yeah. Y-

    22. BO

      But when Girls Gone Wild was a thing, everyone was just like, "Who cares how it gets done?"

    23. JR

      (laughs) Yeah, that's crazy, right? Like, Girls Gone W- That's how the i- When the internet wasn't around, you could buy tapes of drunk girls at the bar flashing their boobs.

    24. BO

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      And you'd pay for it.

    26. BO

      Yep.

    27. JR

      You'd pay for it.

    28. BO

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      And it had, like, a production value.

    30. BO

      Oh. No, you'd pay, you'd pay for it, and then you were part of a subscription service (laughs) that-

  21. 1:05:36 – 1:12:04

    Building ‘networks’ to get bought out: Kevin Hart’s strategy, money instincts, and burnout risk

    1. BO

      I don't... You know, it's interesting. When I talked to, uh, Kevin Hart in Montreal some years back and he was buying up, uh... He was buying up things for, uh, the LOL Network that he was starting, which was like a... I guess an internet network. And they made all this news because when he did the pitch show where they were pitching, uh, ideas for his network, he apparently in the room bought like four or five of them. And when I saw him (laughs) that night, I was like, "Were these five... Are you had five shows you saw today that are like definite shows?" And he was like, "No, but it gets you press." You know what I mean? He was telling me kind of like the whole thing and then he goes... But the idea that he was saying he was doing with that, I'm like, "Are you gonna run a network now?" And he was like, "No, you wanna build it until it becomes competitive and then another company comes along and goes, 'Can we give you money just to go away?' Is the idea." You know? So it's like the idea is like he wants like Netflix to buy-

    2. JR

      Oh, how weird.

    3. BO

      ... LOL or something like that. So it's just building it-

    4. JR

      Probably a good business move, but I don't... Do you think like that?

    5. BO

      No, absolutely, but I think-

    6. JR

      Do you think like that?

    7. BO

      (laughs) No.

    8. JR

      Huh?

    9. BO

      I have no business acumen whatsoever.

    10. JR

      Yeah, that's a weird business acumen to have. It's interesting-

    11. BO

      But I'm also-

    12. JR

      ... but probably effective.

    13. BO

      I'm, uh, you know, blown away by... You know, I- I watch you when you talk to Bert sometimes about that, about his like employment of so many people.

Episode duration: 2:50:59

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