Joe Rogan Experience #2316 - Cameron Hanes

1. 0:00 – 4:06

   Broken foot vs. 250-mile ultra: Rogan tries to talk Hanes out of Cocodona

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What's going on? (laughs)

   4. CHCameron Hanes0:14

      Not much. Hello, Joe Rogan.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Hello, Cameron Hanes.

   6. CHCameron Hanes0:17

      Welcome to the podcast.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Thank you. Uh, this is my first time trying one of these, uh, new energy drinks that Black Rifle came out. Have you tried them? They're good?

   8. CHCameron Hanes0:24

      I have.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      They're legit?

   10. NANarrator0:25

       Really good.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Everything they do is legit.

   12. NANarrator0:26

       Yeah, really good.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       Has to be legit. Ah, mango.

   14. CHCameron Hanes0:31

       What do you think?

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       So, this is the part of the podcast where I try to talk you out of running a 250-mile race with a broken foot, you fucking maniac. (laughs)

   16. CHCameron Hanes0:38

       We're talking about my book.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       (laughs)

   18. CHCameron Hanes0:41

       This is, the whole point of this was, undeniable now.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       (laughs) Well, you'll definitely be undeniable when you run 250 miles with a broken foot.

   20. CHCameron Hanes0:50

       Yeah, it's, uh...

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       Why are you doing that? That's seems like a not a good idea. But what am I, a doctor?

   22. CHCameron Hanes0:56

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       (laughs)

   24. CHCameron Hanes0:57

       Okay. So, so real talk, let's just, we'll break it down. So, if I was a professional athlete in my prime-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       (clicks tongue) Right.

   26. CHCameron Hanes1:05

       ... right, it would obviously make sense to say, and I need to get surgery, my foot's broke, I can't perform, whatever. But since I'm, we know how old I am, almost 60, it's just like, there's no guarantees. And I'm like, if I can fight this off and still whatever, still perform, then I'm going to do that.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       Wow. Um, I don't-

   28. CHCameron Hanes1:27

       I can't afford to play the long game. Can I?

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       (sighs) Fix your foot. It's like, I don't understand. Like, this is what I've always said with people with jujitsu injuries, 'cause I've had a bunch of surgeries.

   30. CHCameron Hanes1:37

       Yeah.
2. 4:06 – 5:51

   What Cocodona 250 actually is: elevation, terrain, and the absurdity of the goal

   1. CHCameron Hanes4:06

      Next Monday at 5:00 AM, 250 miles.

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:09

      Oh. Which one is that? What's the race called?

   3. CHCameron Hanes4:11

      On your mark, get set, go. Uh, Cocodona 250.

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:14

      Where is it? Is it elevation?

   5. CHCameron Hanes4:16

      It's Arizona. So, it goes from, I think Black Canyon City to Flagstaff.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:21

      Is it flat the whole way?

   7. CHCameron Hanes4:23

      No.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:23

      Or is it... No.

   9. CHCameron Hanes4:24

      40,000, I think.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:24

       Oh, 40,000 feet.

   11. CHCameron Hanes4:26

       Or wait.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:26

       Nothing. (laughs)

   13. CHCameron Hanes4:26

       Or maybe 30,000. I don't know. A lot of-

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       Oh.

   15. CHCameron Hanes4:28

       ... a lot of, a lot of climbing.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:29

       Just a tiny amount.

   17. CHCameron Hanes4:30

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:30

       Oh, look, fucking mountains.

   19. CHCameron Hanes4:32

       We could...

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:33

       (laughs)

   21. CHCameron Hanes4:34

       No, there's lots of mountains. Is that the Co-

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:36

       (laughs)

   23. CHCameron Hanes4:36

       Yeah, it's right there. Cocodona 250.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:37

       Bro, that's so ridiculous.

   25. CHCameron Hanes4:39

       Yeah, it's, looks beautiful though.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       That's so ridiculous you're gonna do that with a broken foot.

   27. CHCameron Hanes4:43

       Yeah. Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:43

       So, after you do that, here's the next logic. "Well, if I can do 250 miles, I can make it through elk season." And then, yeah, you're not gonna get it fixed.

   29. CHCameron Hanes4:51

       I just, I just did it with a broken foot in elk season.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       I know. That's what I'm saying.
3. 5:51 – 9:44

   Why podcasts beat legacy media: authenticity, fewer gatekeepers, and ad trust

   1. CHCameron Hanes5:51

      Oh, you say that all the time. But man, you, you have so many good conversations and it's like, it's definitely changed... Here's what's crazy, is-... you know, mainstream media, with all the money that the advertisers had to pay or whatever-

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:04

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CHCameron Hanes6:05

      ... it's like that was, that was their thing. Now, that, it feels like that money's coming to the podcast realm because of you. I mean, you've shown the power of podcasts, and I think all the podcast hosts are benefiting from that. What do you think?

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:16

      Well, I think we are all benefiting from all of our work. I mean, I don't think it's me. Um, you know, I just have been doing it longer than most. You know, but there's guys like Carolla and a few other guys that have been doing it longer than me. You know? It's just, uh, podcasting is just better because there's less people involved. It's really that simple. The problem with stuff like Fox News and CNN is there's too many people involved and too many interests, right? You have the interests of the network, you have the interests of the censors. You have a bunch of people that, you know, don't want you talking about certain things, or want you talking about certain other things. Like, they want you to push certain narratives. There's too many people. And so it feels curated, and so when you're listening, it doesn't resonate. But when you're listening to two people just shoot the shit, you're like, "Oh, I know what that's like." Like, that make, that's, like if someone came over to your house and started talking like a CNN anchor, you'd be like, "What the fuck is this guy doing in my house?"

   5. CHCameron Hanes7:09

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:09

      "Get him out of here."

   7. CHCameron Hanes7:10

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:10

      "I can't relax. You're trying to have a class I want."

   9. CHCameron Hanes7:12

      Like, how would he talk? How would he talk?

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       "What we, what we've learned today is that climate change is the most important..."

   11. CHCameron Hanes7:19

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:19

       And you'd be like, "Oh, God."

   13. CHCameron Hanes7:20

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       "Get this guy out of the fucking house."

   15. CHCameron Hanes7:21

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       Like, "What are you saying? Why do you talk like that?"

   17. CHCameron Hanes7:22

       So Douglas Murray's gonna come over to my house, it sounds like?

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:25

       Have you ever been...

   19. CHCameron Hanes7:27

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:28

       Yeah, I mean, it's just, there's people that are professional talking heads.

   21. CHCameron Hanes7:32

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:32

       Do you know, like, there's, there's people that are professional sportscasters. You know, they talk like a sportscaster voice.

   23. CHCameron Hanes7:38

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:38

       Like Howard Cosell. Why know-

   25. CHCameron Hanes7:39

       Radio DJ voice.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:40

       Yeah, radio DJ voice.

   27. CHCameron Hanes7:41

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:42

       Exactly. Top 40 DJ voices. Like, they're all the same.

   29. CHCameron Hanes7:45

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:45

       "Coming up next." "All right."
4. 9:44 – 13:09

   Social media backlash, self-censorship, and the fight over speech online

   1. CHCameron Hanes9:44

      Yeah, I wonder if, uh, I, I don't even know how to word it, but people are so used to, like, the fake stuff. Like, even, even if somebody says, if you talk about being transgender and say, "Oh, well, you know, this boy felt like a girl," whatever, it's like you're almost programmed to be like, "Oh, oh, hmm, okay." Just like-

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:03

      Yeah, you're programmed to not have an opinion about it. Yeah.

   3. CHCameron Hanes10:05

      Right, and so, and that, and, 'cause normally how, as guys work, you talk, we talk about radio DJ voice or the fake or whatever, like, that's not how people talk. But guys can be around a certain group of people, and there'll be, like, one guy. You'd be like, "That guy seemed off."

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:22

      (laughs) Yes. Yes.

   5. CHCameron Hanes10:23

      "What the fuck's wrong with that guy?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:24

      Right, some guy will infiltrate your group.

   7. CHCameron Hanes10:26

      And that's like, that's like, that's like a subtle little thing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:27

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CHCameron Hanes10:28

      That's not like the things we're talking about, (clicks fingers) like the big things.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:30

       Right.

   11. CHCameron Hanes10:31

       That's like, this, guys have these, this radar, and you're just like, "Who the fuck is this guy?"

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       Right, right, right, right.

   13. CHCameron Hanes10:37

       But, and then you go to the complete other realm, where it's so pres- preposterous.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       Yeah.

   15. CHCameron Hanes10:42

       And we're supposed to be like, "Oh, okay."

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       Yeah.

   17. CHCameron Hanes10:45

       "Hm, that makes sense."

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       I actually heard a psychologist discussing this, and he said that there's an issue with talking about things publicly, especially with social media, because there's so much backlash on social media whenever you hit any hot button topic. Immigration, politics, anything that's like a real highly, hotly contended topic. People will say things just so they don't get attacked, and they, they distort their opinions based on how much they think they're going to get attacked.

   19. CHCameron Hanes11:19

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:20

       So all that social media stuff is super effective. People attacking people is super effective for people to, like... This is how transgender people in sports got through.

   21. CHCameron Hanes11:31

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:31

       The only way it got through is 'cause people were calling people bigots.

   23. CHCameron Hanes11:34

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:34

       Every parent, every fucking parent who's not a complete psychopath-

   25. CHCameron Hanes11:40

       (laughs) Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:40

       ... doesn't want their daughter wrestling with some boy who thinks he's a girl.

   27. CHCameron Hanes11:44

       Right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       That's crazy. Playing rugby with some boy who thinks he's a girl. That's crazy. Have a six-foot-six, 50-year-old man who identifies as being 17-year-old girl. That's fucking crazy.

   29. CHCameron Hanes11:57

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:58

       But you can't say that's crazy, or your feed will be bombarded with a bunch of sociopaths attacking you-
5. 13:09 – 17:51

   Elon, Twitter/X, and government influence: from censorship claims to ‘debanking’ fears

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:09

      ... is 'cause Twitter was complete nonsense. It was just a psyop. The whole thing was just a psyop. We all owe Elon Musk a huge debt. When he bought Twitter, he changed the conversations in the country.

   2. CHCameron Hanes13:22

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:22

      Because all of a sudden, people were free. They were-

   4. CHCameron Hanes13:24

      Could say what you want.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:25

      You were free to say whatever you wanted.

   6. CHCameron Hanes13:27

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:27

      Before, you couldn't say anything bad about Biden, or the liberals, or COVID vaccines, or anything.

   8. CHCameron Hanes13:36

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:36

      You would be banned.

   10. CHCameron Hanes13:37

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:37

       You'd be banned.

   12. CHCameron Hanes13:39

       Yeah, that's... You know, that Elon coming, doing what he's done, has cha- has definitely changed the world, right?

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:46

       Without a doubt.

   14. CHCameron Hanes13:46

       I mean, has to. And how much credit does he deserve? Because he did not des- have to do that. I mean, he had s- more money than anybody. Why would he do... Why would he put himself out there like that, other than to make a positive change for humanity, essentially?

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:00

       Well, in talking with him both publicly and privately, he was genuinely concerned that we were losing free speech. He was genuinely concerned that it was being hijacked. It was being hijacked under the guise of safety. Safety. Like, "We have to, we have to protect people. We have to protect marginalized people."

   16. CHCameron Hanes14:17

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:17

       Like marginalized male perverts who want to wear dresses and pretend-

   18. CHCameron Hanes14:22

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:22

       ... they're a girl and go to the bathroom.

   20. CHCameron Hanes14:23

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:23

       Literally.

   22. CHCameron Hanes14:24

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       Literally.

   24. CHCameron Hanes14:24

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:25

       You know? And that's, that's dangerous with that, but it's also dangerous with everything else. It's also dangerous, like if you're a person who's a progressive person who believes in gay rights or, you know, f- any of, anything... Welfare, universal basic... Whatever it is. Imagine living in a world where there's no free speech, but the Republicans are in control. Or like super religious conservative people are in control, or Muslims are in control.

   26. CHCameron Hanes14:57

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:58

       Let's imagine, like the, the Muslim population in this country is expanding all the time. They've got Muslim-run cities now. They have call to prayer in certain cities in this country. Imagine that goes everywhere. They're in control of social media, and they institute Sharia law on social media, and they want to throw gay people off the roof.

   28. CHCameron Hanes15:16

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:16

       This is where it goes.

   30. CHCameron Hanes15:18

       Yeah, right.
6. 17:51 – 20:51

   Why politicians avoid long-form podcasts: Pierre Poilievre invite, Kamala hypothetical, and ‘gotcha’ culture

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:51

      ... I offered to have that Pierre guy come on the podcast.

   2. CHCameron Hanes17:53

      Really?

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:54

      And he didn't do it, wouldn't do it. Thought it was too problematic.

   4. CHCameron Hanes17:57

      Hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:57

      Or whatever. Jordan told me. I forget what he said. But they, they were telling him not to do it. Like his advisors were telling him not to do it.

   6. CHCameron Hanes18:04

      What did... Which-

   7. JRJoe Rogan18:05

      Like, "Hey-

   8. CHCameron Hanes18:05

      "Hey."

   9. JRJoe Rogan18:05

      ... hey, dumbass." (laughs)

   10. CHCameron Hanes18:06

       If they can't talk to you and have a conversation hold up, it's not... You're not grilling pe- you're not attacking people.

   11. JRJoe Rogan18:11

       Of course not.

   12. CHCameron Hanes18:12

       This is like a safe s- you know, the friend zone type thing. It's like no. And I heard you talk about Kamala, saying just want to get to know her, just want to talk to her.

   13. JRJoe Rogan18:20

       100%. I said if there's certain things they didn't want to talk about, I don't need to talk about them.

   14. CHCameron Hanes18:25

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan18:25

       I don't care. I'm like, "I could talk to you about fucking AI."

   16. CHCameron Hanes18:28

       You've never been the gotcha guy.

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:30

       This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. It's important that you take care of yourself, physically and mentally. Because if you refuse to get help, you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting the people around you. It can impact your family, friends, even your colleagues. And you know, mental health has come a long way. Despite all our progress, though, there's still a stigma. In a recent survey, 26% say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. This Mental Health Awareness Month, let's change that. I'm encouraging everyone to take care of their wellbeing, and you should too. Therapy is an excellent tool that everyone can benefit from. It teaches valuable skills, from how to be more self-aware, to healthier ways you can express emotions, and more. If you want to be a better version of yourself, therapy is where it starts, and BetterHelp is a great way to get the therapy that you need. They have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist. Everything is also entirely online, so it's more affordable and convenient. And if that's still not enough to convince you, maybe this will. Over five million people worldwide use BetterHelp, so you're not alone when it comes to seeking support. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com/jre to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, .com/jre. I don't, I'm not interested in that.

   18. CHCameron Hanes19:57

       No.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:58

       I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. If like, if someone, if I disagree with someone, I just say I disagree with them. I'm not, I don't attack people. As I've gotten older and wiser in life, I want less conflict. I mean, sometimes you have to be able to disagree in a way that's forceful, but I don't want, I'm never insulting or attack people.

   20. CHCameron Hanes20:20

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       And I, especially this Pierre Poilievre guy, 'cause he, I don't know how to say his name. How do you say it?

   22. NANarrator20:24

       No idea.

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:25

       It's a weird way of saying it.

   24. CHCameron Hanes20:27

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:27

       Poilievre. Um, I would just ask him questions, like, "What's wrong? What's wrong with Canada? Like, how did this happen? Why did it go this way?"

   26. CHCameron Hanes20:35

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:35

       "Uh, what can be done to reverse some of these things that have been put into place? Like, how did you feel about this? What did, what would you have done differently?"

   28. CHCameron Hanes20:43

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:43

       Real simple stuff.

   30. CHCameron Hanes20:44

       Yeah.
7. 20:51 – 42:42

   Gatekeeping ‘experts’ and the Douglas Murray clash: tactics vs. issues

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:51

      Uh, but what it, but, you know, people are just, and this is also why the attacking of people on social media is effective. Like, the same thing that keeps people from saying things 'cause they're worried that they're gonna be attacked, also keeps people from talking to certain people 'cause they're worried about be- they're being attacked.

   2. CHCameron Hanes21:08

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan21:09

      You know? They'll try to like, this is one of the things that I felt like Douglas Murray was doing when he was on the podcast, was like trying to gatekeep who I have on. Like, "Why would you have this person on? Why would you like..." He never even listened to that guy, Darrell Cooper's podcast.

   4. CHCameron Hanes21:23

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:23

      Like, I would tell everybody, "Forget about the politics stuff. Listen to his stuff on Guyana. Listen to his stuff on Jim Jones." The Jim Jones series-

   6. CHCameron Hanes21:33

      And this is in hours.

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:34

      Fucking incredible.

   8. CHCameron Hanes21:35

      Doesn't he do like hours-long discussions?

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:38

      Hours.

   10. CHCameron Hanes21:38

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:38

       Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem is something like 30 hours long.

   12. CHCameron Hanes21:41

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:42

       Insane stuff. But he's a really thoughtful person, and he delves into all the areas. "Let's, you know, look at this from the, of, of the perspective of the people who were in the cult. Look at it from Jim Jones' perspect. Look at it from the nation of Guyana, where he moves there with his fucking cult and then kills everybody with Kool-Aid."

   14. CHCameron Hanes22:02

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:03

       I don't think it was Kool-Aid. I think it was like a bargain name.

   16. CHCameron Hanes22:06

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:06

       It was like some fake Kool-Aid.

   18. CHCameron Hanes22:08

       Yeah, we don't want Kool-Aid to sue us.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:09

       But they call it j- People always say, "Drink the Kool-Aid." But I do, google that, 'cause I'm pretty sure it wasn't really Kool-Aid. It was something else. It was some cheap-

   20. CHCameron Hanes22:17

       Grape Crush.

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:17

       Too expensive to kill everybody with top-shelf Kool-Aid.

   22. CHCameron Hanes22:20

       Yeah, that's a lot of sugar you gotta put in Kool-Aid.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:22

       By the way-

   24. CHCameron Hanes22:22

       Remember when we used to make Kool-Aid? And it was like, what was it, like a cup of sugar?

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:26

       Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you throw the stuff in there.

   26. CHCameron Hanes22:29

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:29

       Bernt Kreischer drinks that all day long.

   28. CHCameron Hanes22:31

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:31

       It was like a 64-ounce jug of Kool-Aid.

   30. CHCameron Hanes22:34

       He was shredded.
8. 42:42 – 1:00:31

   Hard-work mythology in combat sports: Marciano, Hagler, and what discipline really costs

   1. JRJoe Rogan42:42

      So I put the mask on. I'm sitting here with you, we're talking about Rocky Marciano. (laughs)

   2. CHCameron Hanes42:46

      Oh, man.

   3. JRJoe Rogan42:48

      Where I got into these old, uh, videos on YouTube of fighters training. And I got into this, uh, one video that I sent you about Rocky Marciano and how insane his training was. And it was seven days a week. He would spar sometimes 30, 40 rounds in a day. He would run ten miles in the morning and then five more miles at night, and then he would swim two miles in the lake.

   4. CHCameron Hanes43:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan43:14

      He would swim across the lake and then back. And then-

   6. CHCameron Hanes43:18

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan43:18

      ... he would get up in the morning and do it all over again, and he never took days off. (laughs)

   8. CHCameron Hanes43:23

      No, and a- another thing, he was like focused on recovery and sleep.

   9. JRJoe Rogan43:27

      Yep.

   10. CHCameron Hanes43:27

       Like he would be in bed like at 9:00, I think I said, every night.

   11. JRJoe Rogan43:30

       Yep.

   12. CHCameron Hanes43:30

       And get his sleep in, but worked so hard. And w- why do we love stories like that?

   13. JRJoe Rogan43:36

       'Cause you know how hard it is to do.

   14. CHCameron Hanes43:38

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan43:39

       You know?

   16. CHCameron Hanes43:40

       But it's...

   17. JRJoe Rogan43:41

       It's impossible. I mean, it's possible, but it's im- impossible for most. It's like it- it requires a mind that is just fortified through will and discipline to this strange hardness that's just different than everybody else's.

   18. CHCameron Hanes43:58

       Well, but- but why would... Okay, so he retired a 49 and 0.

   19. JRJoe Rogan44:02

       Yeah.

   20. CHCameron Hanes44:03

       Heavyweight, obv- everybody knows him in fighting. Maybe not everybody in the world, obviously. He died a while ago, but-

   21. JRJoe Rogan44:09

       By the way, small heavyweight. We were talking about that too. I think in his prime, he was 190 pounds or 189 pounds.

   22. CHCameron Hanes44:16

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan44:16

       Something like, something crazy like... What did Rocky Marciano weigh while he was fighting? I think he was 5'10" and he weighed like a 189 pounds, which is insane.

   24. CHCameron Hanes44:23

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan44:23

       Like, 188.

   26. CHCameron Hanes44:26

       188.

   27. JRJoe Rogan44:26

       That's so crazy, dude. So he weighed 12 pounds less than me. Think about that.

   28. CHCameron Hanes44:32

       5'10" and a quarter. Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan44:33

       He weighs 12... He's two inches taller than me and a little more, and then he weighs-

   30. CHCameron Hanes44:37

       And did-
9. 1:00:31 – 1:12:42

   UFC excellence and gas tanks: BJ Penn peak years, grappling strength, and technique talk

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

      You know, and I was telling you about, uh, when we were getting our infusions when we were vaping stem cells today.

   2. CHCameron Hanes1:00:37

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

      I was telling you about BJ Penn when he was in his prime. When BJ Penn was in his prime, he was training with, uh, Marv Marinovici. And Marv Marinovici had very unorthodox training methods where it was all plyometrics, explosive drills, sprints, box jumps, all this crazy stuff, and he believed, and I'm, I'm hope... I'm not quoting him incorrectly, but he believed that...... fight training was of secondary importance when you're in camp and really what was important is to just have a fucking insane gas tank. Like, BJ Penn knows how to fight. He's a world champ-

   4. CHCameron Hanes1:01:10

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:01:11

      ... and he's not gonna forget how to fight, but you could get him training this way, where you have this gas tank that's just insane. And when BJ Penn was training with him, he was unstoppable, man.

   6. CHCameron Hanes1:01:23

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

      He was like... I s- always say this. Like, people talk about Khabib being the greatest lightweight of all time, and maybe he is. It's very possible he is. But I would put the BJ Penn that fought Joe "Daddy" Stevenson, the BJ Penn that fought Sean Sherk, the BJ Penn that was like, in that peak when he was training with- I would put him against anybody.

   8. CHCameron Hanes1:01:45

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:01:45

      Against anybody. Against Die- when he fought Diego Sanchez. He couldn't be stopped and if you got him to the ground, his fucking submission game was insane.

   10. CHCameron Hanes1:01:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:52

       It was insane off of his back. He would take your back, you were dead. He would knock you out standing up. His kickboxing was elite and he-

   12. CHCameron Hanes1:01:59

       How do you think Khabib would fight him?

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:02:01

       Take him down, for sure.

   14. CHCameron Hanes1:02:03

       But y-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:02:03

       He'd probably fight him the same way Georges St-Pierre did. You know?

   16. CHCameron Hanes1:02:05

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:06

       But, the difference in size between BJ Penn and Georges St-Pierre is pretty significant.

   18. CHCameron Hanes1:02:11

       Right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:02:11

       BJ Penn was really a 155-pound guy who actually, later in his career, fought 145.

   20. CHCameron Hanes1:02:16

       Hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

       When he... Later. You know, which was, you know, when he was kind of at the end of his career. But the- but, you know, Georges is way bigger. Like, Georges was the big 170.

   22. CHCameron Hanes1:02:28

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

       Big, muscular 170 with great wrestling-

   24. CHCameron Hanes1:02:30

       Wide shoulders.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       ... nasty ground and pound, and a black belt in jiu-jitsu himself.

   26. CHCameron Hanes1:02:34

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:34

       And also, a really good striker. And just, you know, in his prime, when he was so well-rounded.

   28. CHCameron Hanes1:02:40

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:40

       And there was also accusations of greasing.

   30. CHCameron Hanes1:02:43

       Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 3:10:28