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Joe Rogan Experience #2321 - Dr. Zahi Hawass

Dr. Zahi Hawass is an archaeologist, Egyptologist, lecturer, and former Egyptian Minister of Antiquities. See him live during his Grand Lecture Tour across North America as he presents the latest groundbreaking discoveries made in Egypt. To check all 33 dates and locations and to register, visit ⁠https://www.ZahiLectures.com⁠ 50% off your first box at ⁠https://www.thefarmersdog.com/rogan⁠! This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://www.betterhelp.com/jre

Joe RoganhostDr. Zahi Hawassguest
May 14, 20251h 58mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:57

    Art Bell feud and a quarry demo: “Egyptians use their brain”

    1. JR

      (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) We can talk as long as you want.

    4. ZH

      No, it's up to you this time. (laughs)

    5. JR

      It's up to you.

    6. ZH

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      I'll talk to you forever, I have so many questions.

    8. ZH

      (clears throat)

    9. JR

      I'm s- very excited to meet you.

    10. ZH

      Same.

    11. JR

      I've seen you in documentaries for decades.

    12. ZH

      Mm-mm.

    13. JR

      So many document- I've watched so many things about Egypt. I'm completely fascinated by you.

    14. ZH

      You know, I will tell you something. Do you know this guy used to do-

    15. JR

      (clears throat)

    16. ZH

      ... who used to do a radio show late evening?

    17. JR

      Art Bell?

    18. ZH

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      The best. He was the best. (laughs)

    20. ZH

      Can I- I need to say this on air.

    21. JR

      Okay.

    22. ZH

      I need to say this story on air.

    23. JR

      Okay.

    24. ZH

      Now, are we on air now?

    25. JR

      Yeah, we're on air.

    26. ZH

      (clears throat) Art Bell used every, everything (snaps fingers) to attack me.

    27. JR

      He did?

    28. ZH

      Badly. Yes.

    29. JR

      Oh.

    30. ZH

      How the Hawassa, how the Egyptian can move stones.

  2. 2:57 – 6:31

    How heavy stones get moved today: wooden stages, sledges, and “The Devil” tool

    1. ZH

      (clears throat) Listen, two examples I will tell you. The first example happened few years ago. I discovered a tomb in a site called Abusir. In the top of the tomb, there was a huge granite sarcophagus. 20 tons weight. Okay?

    2. JR

      Okay.

    3. ZH

      If you come to Egypt, have you been to Egypt?

    4. JR

      No, I haven't.

    5. ZH

      You have to. If you talk about Egypt-

    6. JR

      I know I have to.

    7. ZH

      ... you have to come.

    8. JR

      I know, I know.

    9. ZH

      But you have to tell me before you come.

    10. JR

      I'll come. I will tell you.

    11. ZH

      Now-

    12. JR

      I promise.

    13. ZH

      ... I brought only 10 people, because I called the Minister of Culture (bell dings) ... and I told him, "We found an intact tomb." And the minister said, "Wait, I will bring the reporter, the press, and we'll do it live." I said, "Okay." But I hate to do anything live. (clears throat) Then I came to the site. I brought my workmen. 10 workmen only moved the 20 tons only by wooden stages. We found underneath, another sarcophagus. 10 s- 10 tons weight of granite. We took the third one and we found underneath another, a third one, five tons weight. We took the five tons out and we found underneath, a coffin with a mummy. And I told the workmen, "Put everything back." And I called the minister, I said, "You can bring the press. We'll open it live." I never told him that I cheated him. But only (sniffs) in a site that I'm excavating right now, we do discover 60 feet under the ground, we discover sealed sarcophagus. The lid is about 10 tons weight. Two workmen only opened the lid for me. We have a machine called The Devil. I don't know why they called it The Devil.

    14. JR

      Devil?

    15. ZH

      Devil.

    16. JR

      Okay.

    17. ZH

      Why? I don't know. I asked them. They said, "Our grandfathers called it like that." Then they brought-

    18. JR

      Oh, so this is an ancient machine?

    19. ZH

      It, it is an ancient machine.

    20. JR

      Jamie could probably pull it up.

    21. NA

      I can.

    22. JR

      It's probably online.

    23. ZH

      Then they, then they, they put this machine under, under the lid and they come, doing like this, and they raise the lid little bit.

    24. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. ZH

      When the lid, the lid is raised, they put a piece of wood, another piece of wood-

    26. JR

      Okay.

    27. ZH

      ... another, until there is a half a feet that I can put-

    28. JR

      (clears throat) Right.

    29. ZH

      ... my face inside with the sarcoph- with the flashlight to see what's inside the coffin. That's what we... Because the people today are the descendants of the ancient Egyptian. There is a c- a village located north of Luxor, and this village, all the people work in antiquities. And they know, if you look at their faces, exactly like the ancient Egyptian people. And all the people working with me. I'm excavating right now in Giza. We're going to tell you good news-... inside the Great Pyramid that we found. And also, in Saqqara and Luxor. And this why in my lecture tour now, I'm making major important announcement that we'll talk about it with you today.

    30. JR

      Okay. What, what'd you find?

  3. 6:31 – 8:52

    Conspiracy theories and the ‘bathroom tunnel’ joke: why Hawass says he can’t hide evidence

    1. ZH

      Now... You know I do receive fan emails.

    2. JR

      You receive emails?

    3. ZH

      Fan.

    4. JR

      Fan emails?

    5. ZH

      About 50 a week. Some of them, bad ones. Some people think that I discovered evidence to prove that pyramids built by aliens or lost civilization and I hide them. I never answer these questions. But to you, I tell you, how do I... How can I hide anything? I'm not working alone. I'm working with people. You, you cannot hide anything because people will see you. And I will tell you a joke (sniffs) . It happened, but it's a joke. A reporter came to see me from California, to my office, and my office was located next to Great Pyramid of Khufu. And he said to me, "People say at 12 noon, you leave your office and you go to the bathroom, and you open a tunnel from your bathroom."

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. ZH

      So, really it's what he said. "And you go from the tunnel to the Great Pyramid-"

    8. JR

      Oh.

    9. ZH

      "... and you hide things and you come back." I said, "Okay, what do you need from me now?" He said, "I want to see your bathroom."

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. ZH

      This really happened. He went to my bathroom.

    12. JR

      Did he check all the panels?

    13. ZH

      And he came back. I said, "Have you seen any tunnels in my bathroom?" He said, "No." I said, "What are we going to do now?" He said, "I will publish your bathroom in the internet, and therefore if you want to see my bathroom, write www.hawassbathroom.com."

    14. JR

      It's that much of an issue, that people really believe it-

    15. ZH

      They do.

    16. JR

      ... that you had to make a website for it?

    17. ZH

      They, they do. They do believe in this.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. ZH

      And, and some of them attack me badly.

    20. JR

      Well, that's part of the problem, right, is that the Egyptian pyramids and just Egypt in general is so spectacular. The accomplishments of the ancient Egyptians were so monumental and so above anything that anybody had ever achieved. And since, you know, what they've done thousands and thousands of years ago still to this day puzzles people when they try to figure out how it was built.

    21. ZH

      I will tell you.

    22. JR

      You will tell me how it was built?

    23. ZH

      Of course.

    24. JR

      Okay.

    25. ZH

      I...

    26. JR

      How do you know?

    27. ZH

      How do you know? We-

    28. JR

      How, how do you know?

  4. 8:52 – 10:24

    What Egyptology ‘gets wrong’: workers’ schedule, stone sources, Khufu’s reign, and block counts

    1. ZH

      Well, I found all the evidence of building the pyramid. I, we pa-... We published a book, 1,000 pages. This book is a bible of the pyramids of Giza Plateau.

    2. JR

      Okay. Tell me how they did it.

    3. ZH

      Now, what we found out, the major problem that people think about pyramids... Because most of the information that's written on pyramids are wrong.

    4. JR

      Most of it?

    5. ZH

      Most of it.

    6. JR

      In archeology books?

    7. ZH

      In archeology books.

    8. JR

      Really?

    9. ZH

      Except me and Mark Lehner, who has-

    10. JR

      You guys are the only ones that have it right?

    11. ZH

      Because we, um, have been working in Giza for the last 57 years of my life. I excavated every bit of sand.

    12. JR

      Okay. Well, let's t-... What do, what do the archeologists have wrong in these archeologist books?

    13. ZH

      For example, number one, they say that the workmen who built the pyramids worked only four months a year. When the flood covered the whole country, the king hire the workmen to work on this pyramid. This is wrong. And I will tell you what's correct. Number Two: that the stones used in building the Great Pyramid came from Torah, and Torah is at 25 miles to the east from Giza. And number three, that Khufu ruled for 23 years. And number four, that the stones of the Great Pyramid are 2,300,000 blocks.

    14. JR

      How many blocks are there?

    15. ZH

      Now, let us talk about number one.

    16. JR

      Okay.

  5. 10:24 – 13:30

    Tombs of the pyramid builders: proof of skilled Egyptian labor, not slaves

    1. ZH

      The workmen.

    2. JR

      The workmen.

    3. ZH

      I found the tombs of the pyramid builders only one mile south of the Sphinx, a major important discovery that can tell everyone, number one, that pyramids built by Egyptians because of the names that we found inside the cemetery. And they were not slaves, because (phone ringing)

    4. JR

      Is that your phone? You phone going off?

    5. ZH

      Yes, I have to, I have to...

    6. JR

      Yeah, kill that thing.

    7. ZH

      Kill it. You are right. I always... Because I do lots of interviews, I always close it.

    8. JR

      Oh, I get it.

    9. ZH

      Except today (laughs) .

    10. JR

      No worries. Nobody knows how to shut these things off anymore.

    11. ZH

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. ZH

      Then now, this discovery-

    14. JR

      Okay. So explain. So you found the pyramids. Excuse me, you found the workers' pyramids graves a mile away.

    15. ZH

      Mm-hmm. Away, one mile south-

    16. JR

      Okay.

    17. ZH

      ... of the pyramids.

    18. JR

      And-

    19. ZH

      I-

    20. JR

      ... by their names, you think-

    21. ZH

      And then, then I found names of the workmen.

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. ZH

      I found the lower cemetery, the lower cemetery were for the burial of the workmen who moved the stones. And the upper cemetery was for the technicians.

    24. JR

      Right. And how do you know this?

    25. ZH

      I will tell you.

    26. JR

      Okay.

    27. ZH

      Now, the tombs down there are very primitive tombs, built from mudbrick, cost nothing. Underneath is a skeleton. And if the skeleton is for a man, he's holding a beer jar. He want to drink beer in the afterlife. If the skeleton is for a woman, she has a perfume vessels. She wants to have perfume in the afterlife. Inside the upper cemetery, I found 21 titles in hieroglyphic.... for example, the overseer in hieroglyphic of the side of the pyramid.

    28. JR

      Oh, it says that?

    29. ZH

      And, and, yeah.

    30. JR

      The overseer of the side of the pyramid?

  6. 13:30 – 14:33

    Feeding and staffing the ‘national project’: animal bones, shifts, and logistics

    1. ZH

      But let me continue about the workmen.

    2. JR

      Okay.

    3. ZH

      To the east of the tombs, we found an area for sorting salted fish. We found an area for the bakery, making bread. We found the workmen barracks for the workmen who moved the stones to live. We found a whole city for the technicians, for the artisans. And we discovered thousands of animal bones. Because people always say that the workmen who built the pyramid, they ate only garlic and bread and drink beer. And I thought if they do that, they will die. But now we discovered that they slaughter 11 cows and 33 goats every day, and this can feed 10,000 workmen a day. Then we believe now, and I published, that the workmen who built the pyramids were 10,000 workmen, and they worked every day, and they took one day off every 10 days. Joe, I want to tell you, the pyramid was a national project. The three millions

  7. 14:33 – 23:27

    Stone sources, base carved from bedrock, and the ramp evidence at the southwest corner

    1. ZH

      who lived in Egypt had to build the pyramid for the king to be a god. And therefore, the households in the south and the north of Egypt participated in building the pyramid by sending workforce and food to help build the king. Now, we come to the second point, the stones. We discovered that all the stones of the three pyramids, at Giza, the stones came from quarries in the site itself.

    2. JR

      Even the ch- king's chamber?

    3. ZH

      No, except, except the granite in the king's chamber and...

    4. JR

      And where'd that come from?

    5. ZH

      From Aswan.

    6. JR

      And that's 500 miles away, right?

    7. ZH

      Yes, by the flood. The flood was-

    8. JR

      And those were 50 to 80 tons?

    9. ZH

      It doesn't matter.

    10. JR

      It doesn't?

    11. ZH

      Yes.

    12. JR

      I would... If I was working there, it would matter. I mean-

    13. ZH

      No, no because-

    14. JR

      ... I really don't care what-

    15. ZH

      ... I showed to you, I showed to you.

    16. JR

      Okay.

    17. ZH

      Not only 50 tons. It's 20 tons. Now, what we found out, first, how the Egyptian built the pyramid.

    18. JR

      Okay.

    19. ZH

      They make on the ground a square base. Okay?

    20. JR

      Okay.

    21. ZH

      And after that, they cut in the solid rock in the four sides. You know, I'm going to tell you one thing.

    22. JR

      Okay.

    23. ZH

      If you tell me that pyramids built by giants, okay? I will say, "Okay. Come to the excavation." All the skeleton that we discover are five to six feet high. Nothing about giants.

    24. JR

      Who's saying they were built by giants?

    25. ZH

      Some people say that.

    26. JR

      Oh, okay.

    27. ZH

      The second-

    28. JR

      I've heard aliens.

    29. ZH

      Okay. The second, aliens.

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  8. 23:27 – 32:11

    Written evidence appears: Wadi el-Jarf papyri and Merer’s diary of casing-stone transport

    1. ZH

      Now, few years ago, a major discovery happened for the first time. It is the first time that we have written evidence about building the pyramid of Khufu.

    2. NA

      When did this happen?

    3. ZH

      Three years ago.

    4. NA

      Really?

    5. ZH

      It's called the Wadi el-Jarf Papyri.

    6. NA

      Oh.

    7. ZH

      Do you want to know what's in this papyri?

    8. NA

      I do.

    9. ZH

      This papyri was found in Sinai, in a port belongs to Khufu. And inside this port there was caves. And inside the caves found remains of boat, and this big papyri. It's large, huge.

    10. NA

      There it is.

    11. ZH

      That's it. Exactly. Okay.

    12. NA

      And what does this say?

    13. ZH

      Now...

    14. NA

      First of all, how old is that?

    15. ZH

      4,600 years ago.

    16. NA

      Isn't that amazing?

    17. ZH

      And listen-

    18. NA

      That you could find writing 4,600 years-

    19. ZH

      In this...

    20. NA

      So papyrus was made with animal skin, correct?

    21. ZH

      No, papyrus was, uh, of, uh, of, of papyrus, from the papyri.

    22. NA

      Right. What is, what is...

    23. ZH

      The papyri is just like leaves.

    24. JR

      Okay.

    25. ZH

      Now, but listen to the papyri. It is a diary of, of an overseer of the workmen. His name is Merer, M-E-R-E-R. Okay? Merer is saying, "I am Sahj," in hieroglyphic, means inspector. "Under me, working 40 workmans. I was hired by Khufu to work in his pyramid." This is in hieroglyphic.

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. ZH

      And he said, "My big... My im- my immediate boss, his name is Didi."

    28. JR

      Like P Diddy?

    29. ZH

      Didi, yes. Now-

    30. JR

      Okay.

  9. 32:11 – 37:18

    Khufu’s reign revised to 28 years and a ‘Giza palace’ capital theory

    1. ZH

      that the architect who designed the Great Pyramid was Khufu's cousin. His name was Hemiuno. Then actually, it seems now that Hemiuno died and Ankhkaf completed the Great Pyramid and built the second pyramid of his son, Khufu.

    2. NA

      Mm.

    3. ZH

      Then he said, "I'm working in year 27 of Khufu's reign." He mentioned that Khufu was alive in year 27.

    4. NA

      How long do you think he reigned for?

    5. ZH

      28 years. W- I, I published an article.

    6. NA

      Ah.

    7. ZH

      I published an article about... You can find this article, Zahi-

    8. NA

      Why was, why was the age 23, 23 years, why was that attributed to them?

    9. ZH

      Now, this a good question.

    10. NA

      This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. It's important that you take care of yourself, physically and mentally. Because if you refuse to get help, you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting the people around you. It can impact your family, friends, even your colleagues. And you know, mental health has come a long way. Despite all our progress though, there's still a stigma. In a recent survey, 26% say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. This Mental Health Awareness Month, let's change that. I'm encouraging everyone to take care of their wellbeing, and you should too. Therapy is an excellent tool that everyone can benefit from. It teaches valuable skills from how to be more self-aware, to healthier ways you can express emotions, and more. If you want to be a better version of yourself, therapy is where it starts, and BetterHelp is a great way to get the therapy that you need. They have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist. Everything is also entirely online, so it's more affordable and convenient. And if that's still not enough to convince you, maybe this will. Over five million people worldwide use BetterHelp, so you're not alone when it comes to seeking support. We're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com/jre to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com/jre.

    11. ZH

      Egyptologists has a problem when they count the name of the king, because when the ancient Egyptian counted the cattle, they counted the reign of the king. Sometime they count the cattle every year, sometime they counted the cattle every two years.

    12. NA

      Ah.

    13. ZH

      Then we make mistakes.

    14. NA

      Got it.

    15. ZH

      But now, we have year 27 of Khufu's reign, and we have on the second boat bit that the Japanese are restoring now, we know when the king die, his son bury him. Then Khufu's son, his name is Djedefre, who did not respect his father, and I will tell you why. He buried his father in year 28. Then we know now for sure that Khufu ruled for 28 years.

    16. NA

      Mm.

    17. ZH

      Now, Merer said something that made me very happy, because 25 years ago, I wrote an article to say that Memphis was not the capital of Egypt. I said that the king ruled Egypt from the pyramid. If the pyramids in Abrawash, the king ruled Egypt from Abrawash. If the pyramids in Giza, Giza, Abusir, Saqqara. Then Merer said something, many people did not believe me when I wrote this article. But Merer said, "Khufu lived in his palace at Giza." If he lived in a palace at Giza, means with the royal family, the public, and the government. And he said that the area that Khufu lived in it, in the pyramid called Ankhkafu in hieroglyphic, means that Khufu lives.

    18. NA

      Mm.

    19. ZH

      This is the name of the city that Khufu lived in it.

    20. NA

      Wow.

    21. ZH

      And he c- and Merer said, "We came to Giza in an area in hieroglyphic called Rashi." And Rashi means, literally, mouth of the lake. This could be the entrance of Giza Plateau. But what's really strange, he said, "It took me almost one day for me and my workmen to up, to come to the pyramid." Why? Because Giza entrance was busy.Every stone coming in has to be counted. Every workman has to sign the first letter of his name. And this why it, if you go today to the port of New York, it will take you five hours to enter, because it's busy. And this what happened at Giza Plateau. This papyri, in my opinion, is really one of the most important discovery, that tells us for the first time about building the pyramid. And now, we come to the reign of Khufu, 28 years, and now the stones

  10. 37:18 – 48:06

    Recounting the blocks: bedrock base and ~1 million blocks, plus capstone celebration scenes

    1. ZH

      of the Great Pyramid. I looked everywhere to find out how they counted the stones.

    2. JR

      Okay.

    3. ZH

      That people said it's 2,300,000 blocks.

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. ZH

      I found no evidence. It's only when the Arabs came. You know all the theories that the new age people say now, it came from the Arabs. When the Arabs came and they entered the pyramid, they said all this nonsense stories about the pyramids. Then I never found any place to tell me how they cut the stones. But now, we have evidence that the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high of solid rock, no stones. In 2010, I brought a team, scientist, from every field. And we recounted the stones based on the new evidence and we found out that the stones of the pyramid are only no more, more than one million. And the average height of the limestone is half a ton to two and a half tons.

    6. JR

      So, the base of the pyramid is 20 feet high, carved into solid stone?

    7. ZH

      Yes.

    8. JR

      And then the other rocks were placed on top of it. Now, when-

    9. ZH

      No, I come, I, I want to come to when you told me about this, uh, capstone.

    10. JR

      Uh-huh.

    11. ZH

      Because they did not complete the capstone.

    12. JR

      Right. But let's, let's, we'll start off with this, though. The base is 20 feet high, and then there w- the estimation was 2,300,000, but you think it's far less than that-

    13. ZH

      Because of-

    14. JR

      ... because it's-

    15. ZH

      ... because of the new discovery that we found that the base is made of the solid rock.

    16. JR

      So, before they thought the base was individual stones?

    17. ZH

      Yes.

    18. JR

      Okay. So, now that you know that the base is solid rock, that removes 1,300,000 stones that were necessary.

    19. ZH

      Yes, yes.

    20. JR

      Got it. So, they carved this base knowing that they were gonna put a pyramid on top of it. And what about the subterranean chambers?

    21. ZH

      Every king in Egypt is buried underneath the pyramid.

    22. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. ZH

      Every king, except Khufu, and his father, Senenkhare. The only two kings they are not buried underneath is Khufu and his father. If you look at the one chamber underneath, it was cut and built. If you go down, it's left unfinished.

    24. JR

      Left unfinished in what way?

    25. ZH

      It was planned to cut it.

    26. JR

      Go a-

    27. ZH

      But they did not complete it. You can see when you go down that the t- the burial chamber is not finished. Why?

    28. JR

      Why?

    29. ZH

      Because I found out in our research, every king is Horus on earth. When the king die, he become the sun god. Okay?

    30. JR

      Okay.

  11. 48:06 – 1:32:03

    Ventilation project turns into discovery: robots in shafts, ‘doors’ with copper handles, and new voids

    1. ZH

      But let me take you now to what I began to reveal the secret of Khufu pyramid.

    2. JR

      Okay.

    3. ZH

      As I told you, again, I always listen to what people say, and I try to prove them if they are right or not. I was interested in the Great Pyramid most of my life, because I was the inspector of the pyramid, director of... I- I spent most of my life there. Then I closed this pyramid for a year to stop humidity.

    4. JR

      To stop humidity?

    5. ZH

      Because every person-

    6. JR

      All the breathing?

    7. ZH

      In- exactly.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. ZH

      Enter inside the pyramid, gives about 20 gram of water.

    10. JR

      Ah.

    11. ZH

      And this water becomes salt. Then mechanically, I removed the salt.

    12. JR

      You gotta clean the walls.

    13. ZH

      Exactly. And after that I thought, how can I make a ventilation system of the pyramid? In the king chamber and the queen chamber, you have this tunnel.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. ZH

      20 by 20 centimeter only. Small tunnel.

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. ZH

      Then I thought I should clean these tunnels, then I can make a ventilation system. I had no idea of what I'm going to find out.

    18. JR

      What'd you find out?

    19. ZH

      That I hired a German robot, and we took the German robot to the king chamber. We are sitting in the king chamber with a TV screen and the robot entered in the shaft. We found out that the interior of the pyramid, the stones were interplacked. And this why when the Arabs came to Egypt and they said man fears time and time fears pyramids. Then we found out that this shaft went outside. Then we put a fan here and the fan suck the air and push it in the tunnel, and we made a ventilation system in the pyramid.

    20. JR

      So, this is-

    21. ZH

      Then, then-

    22. JR

      ... discovery of these stones, what was unusual about the way they were placed?

    23. ZH

      What stones?

    24. JR

      The, you said they interlocked?

    25. ZH

      Interblocked.

    26. JR

      Interblocked?

    27. ZH

      Yes, like this.

    28. JR

      What do you mean by that? Oh, like fingers?

    29. ZH

      Mm.

    30. JR

      Okay. So there's like different levels and they all slid in together?

  12. 59:20 – 1:08:28

    ScanPyramids corridor find and the ‘big void’ theory tied to “Khufu and the Magician”

    1. ZH

      We will do it live. But the s- the other thing, we have another team called Scan Pyramids Team. They are scientists from Japan, France, and Egypt.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. ZH

      I am the scientific director who really... They sh- if they discover something, they sh- they come to me. I have to discuss it with them. And they found... You know the, the pyramid?

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. ZH

      You have the entrance that the people use now is the entrance that the Arabs opened.

    6. JR

      That's in the north face, correct?

    7. ZH

      Exactly. Above that is a mini chamber.

    8. JR

      Okay.

    9. ZH

      The Egyptian... The, the team are using a very sophisticated techniques like ultrasound, infrared. With these techniques, you do not need any more to drill. You can really see what's behind the door. And this really what I'm using right now. Then they came to me and they said, "Behind the main entrance of the pyramid, there is a corridor." And they showed to me this corridor clear in the five techniques that they're using. But they told me, "Why I have to see it? Let's go up there." We went up there and they sent an, an optic camera through the f- the stones. And they found... I could look at the corridor, 30 feet long, eight feet wide, topped with chevron shape. I think you can see that in the internet, the corridor behind the main entrance of the pyramid. Can you get it? It's in the internet, I'm sure.

    10. JR

      This void above the Grand Gallery?

    11. ZH

      The size of two trucks.

    12. JR

      What do you think that is?

    13. ZH

      I have no idea.

    14. JR

      Fascinating.

    15. ZH

      I'm just telling you what I found.

    16. JR

      And, um, have-

    17. ZH

      This was the Great Pyramid. I did more work on the third pyramid-

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. ZH

      ... it was the same techniques, and the second pyramid. This is the void.

    20. JR

      Okay, that's-

    21. ZH

      Can you see it?

    22. JR

      Wow, that's incredible.

    23. ZH

      And I think... And bring the other big void above the Grand Gallery. I think you will see it also.

    24. JR

      So find the void above the Grand Gallery, Jamie. Um, so this, it's two trucks?

    25. ZH

      The size of two trucks.

    26. JR

      The s- size of s- two semi-trucks. And, um, do you have an, any idea, like, what the inside-

    27. ZH

      I will tell you, I will tell you about my theory.

    28. JR

      Please do.

    29. ZH

      Uh, I think that it's here. Uh, that's it.

    30. JR

      So that's the void?

  13. 1:08:28 – 1:20:20

    Satellite tomography controversy: Hawass rejects claims of deep underground structures at Giza

    1. JR

      Um, well, I'm, I'm fascinated by a lot of aspects of Khufu's pyramid. But one of the big ones that's come up very recently that I'm sure you're aware of is, um, these satellite radar, was it called tomogr- what is it called? Tomographic? Where they think that there's these pillars underneath the structure.

    2. ZH

      Okay. I investigated this. First of all, these two scholars from Italy.

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    4. ZH

      They have never been in Egypt. They have never worked in the pyramids before.

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. ZH

      Number-

    7. JR

      But they're using satellite information now.

    8. ZH

      Listen, number two, they published their article in a journal.

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. ZH

      This journal do not send their article to the freeze. You pay a fee to publish the article and your responsibility.

    11. JR

      Okay.

    12. ZH

      Number three, I am not a scientist. I took this techniques that they used and I give it to expertise. And they said these techniques cannot show underneath a solid rock of almost 600 feet down. No way.

    13. JR

      How? Why can't they?

    14. ZH

      They said this technique cannot show that.

    15. JR

      But these scientists are saying they can. Do, do you know about the Osiris shaft? How they've got a, a scan?

    16. ZH

      I discovered it.

    17. JR

      Yeah, you did, right?

    18. ZH

      Yes.

    19. JR

      But did you know that they use this tomographic radar and they-

    20. ZH

      No. No, I am the one who found it. This is not-

    21. JR

      No, no. I understand you found it, but they also discovered it sh- they showed that it exists using the same technique.

    22. ZH

      No. No.

    23. JR

      Jamie, pull up that, that-

    24. ZH

      This is wrong.

    25. JR

      Is it?

    26. ZH

      This is not true at all. Ca- I can tell you how I found that.

    27. JR

      Um, hold on, Jamie. I'll tell you-

    28. ZH

      How can I find the Osiris shaft?

    29. JR

      No, I'm, I'm not saying that you didn't find it. It, it's, uh, under the paper's signature, aperture radar Doppler tomography by Filippo Bondi and if you scroll down, Jamie, you'll see an image. And this image is, uh, of the Osiris shaft, which shows that they got, uh, an accurate depiction of that from space.

    30. ZH

      That's not true.

  14. 1:20:20 – 1:28:25

    The Sphinx debates: tunnels, Edgar Cayce claims, erosion arguments, and restoration politics

    1. ZH

      But, but now I want to come to the Sphinx also.

    2. JR

      Okay.

    3. ZH

      Can we talk about the Sphinx?

    4. JR

      Yes, please.

    5. ZH

      Now, you know, when I was young, I was met by the Edgar Cayce-

    6. JR

      Ah.

    7. ZH

      ... son.

    8. JR

      The psychic guy.

    9. ZH

      Hurin-Cayce.

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. ZH

      And Hurin-Cayse was the son of Edgar Cayce. I was young. I really don't know what this case he had ba, ba, ba.

    12. JR

      Right.

    13. ZH

      When they, when he came to Egypt and talked about me, about his father, I s-... You know about Edgar Cayce?

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. ZH

      Okay. Then it is-

    16. JR

      He had a vision that there was a te- uh, a chamber underneath the Sphinx's paw.

    17. ZH

      Underneath the right paw of the Sphinx-

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. ZH

      ... there is a chamber. And-

    20. JR

      And he, he envisioned that, correct?

    21. ZH

      Yes. And this why I'm going to Virginia Beach-

    22. JR

      Oh.

    23. ZH

      ... to give a talk. One of the cities in my tour now is Virginia Beach. Why? Because when people began to tell me there is something inside the Sphinx, I really, as I told you, I have an open mind, and I did search. I found inside the Sphinx four tunnels.

    24. JR

      Mm.

    25. ZH

      One behind the stela, they call it Dreamy Stela, between the two paws of the Sphinx. And the second one behind the head in the top. Go-

    26. JR

      Wait, there's a, there's actually a door in the top of the head now, right?

    27. ZH

      No, no, no. Just a-

    28. JR

      Like because there's a lid, right?

    29. ZH

      Just a tunnel.

    30. JR

      A tunnel.

  15. 1:28:25 – 1:46:59

    Rejecting ‘Zep Tepi’ and extreme chronologies; skepticism of Carbon-14 in Egypt

    1. JR

      Just go outside, take a left. We're back. The Sphinx. Let's pick up where we left off. So, you were saying that these, uh, other experts that looked at it didn't agree that it was water erosion and said that they think that it was wind. So, what, what John Anthony West and what Graham Hancock and what Robert Shock and all these different people are trying to allude to is that perhaps there was even older stuff that was in Egypt, and that the things that you're seeing that are 2500 BC, those are even more recent than the older stuff. Tell me about Zep Tepi.

    2. ZH

      What's Zep Tepi? What's this?

    3. JR

      You, you never heard about ... Have you heard about the ... Like, you know about the King's List, right? The old King's List that goes back 30,000 whatever years?

    4. ZH

      Who said that?

    5. JR

      You never seen it in the ... It's not in hieroglyphs?

    6. ZH

      This is not true at all.

    7. JR

      It's not true?

    8. ZH

      No.

    9. JR

      No?

    10. ZH

      This is a speculation from people who knows nothing about history.

    11. JR

      So-

    12. ZH

      There is nothing King List dated back 30,000 years ago, at all.

    13. JR

      So why do people keep saying that?

    14. ZH

      The first ... Because they don't know. It's speculation. Give me one evidence of that. The only-

    15. JR

      Okay. We'll see what we can find out.

    16. ZH

      ... the first, the first King List dated back to Dynasty Five. Only-

    17. JR

      I was reading that people were saying that it was myth, that the, the King's List, even though there is, like, some hieroglyphics of ancient kings, that these are just mythical tales.

    18. ZH

      This is not true. There is no at all a name that you told me I never heard of this name. I am an Egyptologist working in Egypt for the last 57 years. I never heard of this King List at all.

    19. JR

      Never?

    20. ZH

      Never. And no-

    21. JR

      You never even heard of it?

    22. ZH

      Why I have to hear about it? Because not true. I don't want to ma- waste my time in things like this. I am a person, give me a fact.

    23. JR

      So, in, in ancient-

    24. ZH

      Tell me, what is this list?

    25. JR

      ... Egyptian, Zep Tepi refers to the first time or the first occasion-

    26. ZH

      Who said this?

    27. JR

      ... the first ... This isn't AI. It refers to a mythical golden age of Egypt where gods lived on Earth and civilization was in its infancy. This period is often associated with the beginning of creation and the establishment of societal structures. Have you n- you've never heard of that before?

    28. ZH

      No, and this is not true.

    29. JR

      What do you mean it's not true? I mean, this is-

    30. ZH

      It's just-

Episode duration: 1:58:34

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