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Joe Rogan Experience #2321 - Dr. Zahi Hawass

Dr. Zahi Hawass is an archaeologist, Egyptologist, lecturer, and former Egyptian Minister of Antiquities. See him live during his Grand Lecture Tour across North America as he presents the latest groundbreaking discoveries made in Egypt. To check all 33 dates and locations and to register, visit ⁠https://www.ZahiLectures.com⁠ 50% off your first box at ⁠https://www.thefarmersdog.com/rogan⁠! This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://www.betterhelp.com/jre

Joe RoganhostDr. Zahi Hawassguest
May 14, 20251h 58mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 15:00

    (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast,…

    1. JR

      (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music) We can talk as long as you want.

    4. ZH

      No, it's up to you this time. (laughs)

    5. JR

      It's up to you.

    6. ZH

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      I'll talk to you forever, I have so many questions.

    8. ZH

      (clears throat)

    9. JR

      I'm s- very excited to meet you.

    10. ZH

      Same.

    11. JR

      I've seen you in documentaries for decades.

    12. ZH

      Mm-mm.

    13. JR

      So many document- I've watched so many things about Egypt. I'm completely fascinated by you.

    14. ZH

      You know, I will tell you something. Do you know this guy used to do-

    15. JR

      (clears throat)

    16. ZH

      ... who used to do a radio show late evening?

    17. JR

      Art Bell?

    18. ZH

      (laughs)

    19. JR

      The best. He was the best. (laughs)

    20. ZH

      Can I- I need to say this on air.

    21. JR

      Okay.

    22. ZH

      I need to say this story on air.

    23. JR

      Okay.

    24. ZH

      Now, are we on air now?

    25. JR

      Yeah, we're on air.

    26. ZH

      (clears throat) Art Bell used every, everything (snaps fingers) to attack me.

    27. JR

      He did?

    28. ZH

      Badly. Yes.

    29. JR

      Oh.

    30. ZH

      How the Hawassa, how the Egyptian can move stones.

  2. 15:00 – 30:00

    Even the ch- king's…

    1. ZH

      in the site itself.

    2. JR

      Even the ch- king's chamber?

    3. ZH

      No, except, except the granite in the king's chamber and...

    4. JR

      And where'd that come from?

    5. ZH

      From Aswan.

    6. JR

      And that's 500 miles away, right?

    7. ZH

      Yes, by the flood. The flood was-

    8. JR

      And those were 50 to 80 tons?

    9. ZH

      It doesn't matter.

    10. JR

      It doesn't?

    11. ZH

      Yes.

    12. JR

      I would... If I was working there, it would matter. I mean-

    13. ZH

      No, no because-

    14. JR

      ... I really don't care what-

    15. ZH

      ... I showed to you, I showed to you.

    16. JR

      Okay.

    17. ZH

      Not only 50 tons. It's 20 tons. Now, what we found out, first, how the Egyptian built the pyramid.

    18. JR

      Okay.

    19. ZH

      They make on the ground a square base. Okay?

    20. JR

      Okay.

    21. ZH

      And after that, they cut in the solid rock in the four sides. You know, I'm going to tell you one thing.

    22. JR

      Okay.

    23. ZH

      If you tell me that pyramids built by giants, okay? I will say, "Okay. Come to the excavation." All the skeleton that we discover are five to six feet high. Nothing about giants.

    24. JR

      Who's saying they were built by giants?

    25. ZH

      Some people say that.

    26. JR

      Oh, okay.

    27. ZH

      The second-

    28. JR

      I've heard aliens.

    29. ZH

      Okay. The second, aliens.

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  3. 30:00 – 45:00

    And I discovered all…

    1. JR

      move the stones to where they wanted them.

    2. ZH

      And I discovered all of this, and this is published. If you write Zahi Hawass-

    3. JR

      Mm-hmm. And so this was all the casing stones.

    4. ZH

      Exactly.

    5. JR

      Right. Is it possible that the casing stones were put on later?

    6. ZH

      Yeah, after they finished building the pyramid.

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. ZH

      They put the... There is two important things when they finished building the pyramid.

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. ZH

      I discovered in a site called Abusir, I discovered two scenes. One scene, workmen dragging a capstone. Above the capstone is a hieroglyphic word called pshj.

    11. JR

      So where is this?

    12. ZH

      Where is this?

    13. JR

      This, there's... This is in hieroglyphs? Them dragging the capstone?

    14. ZH

      Yes. Yes, yes.

    15. JR

      Could we see this?

    16. ZH

      I- find out, I don't know if it's internet or not, but they-

    17. NA

      What would, uh, Jimmy, what would Jimmy look for?

    18. ZH

      Look for Zahi Hawass discovery in Abusir.

    19. NA

      How much do you think was lost during the burning of the Library of Alexandria?

    20. ZH

      A lot, of course.

    21. NA

      Everything, right?

    22. ZH

      Everything. And this why what I am telling you, based, I have been excavating in Giza, Joe, for the last, uh, 57 years.

    23. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    24. ZH

      I know every piece of sand in the site. And I will tell you one thing also.

    25. NA

      Okay.

    26. ZH

      I am the only egyptologist who have an open mind.

    27. NA

      Really?

    28. ZH

      That I rev-... I always look-

    29. NA

      You're the only one?

    30. ZH

      I al- yes. I always look at what the public say. And I will tell you about this later.

  4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

    Right. …

    1. ZH

      the quarries, the granite quarry is in Aswan, and we have cutting of the obelisks and cutting of the stones-

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. ZH

      ... and cut of everything in the site. And they brought in... When the flood comes in July, they bring boats. Through the flood, they bring us all the stones to give us a plateau.

    4. JR

      So, they- they plan things for the floods, and then they would figure out some sort of a raft system to get them on and then move them that way?

    5. ZH

      Now, if we now do not believe that this cannot be moved by human being, okay? But on the other side, what I can tell you, inside above these blocks, written the names of the gangs who built the pyramid above the king's chamber. One of the names, friends of Khufu. I did a 3D few months ago, and we recorded in the five chambers that has this huge blocks. We found two more names of the gangs. One name called Those Who Are Connected With The Goddess Wadjet. And written year 13 of Khufu's reign on the third chamber. I took Mr. Beast with me two months ago.

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. ZH

      I took him and I showed him how these blocks, they were written by the workmen before they move these stones.

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. ZH

      And in- in the fourth room, we have the Good God. Another name was year 13 of Khufu's reign. This is when they move the stones.

    10. JR

      So I understand what you're saying. So you're saying that they took these stones, they waited for the flood season, they got the stones on rafts, they moved them down the river, they got them to the site. How did they get them 120 feet in the air?

    11. ZH

      You know, again, this is the most important thing. This is the national project.

    12. JR

      Oh, I understand.

    13. ZH

      When- when the boats-

    14. JR

      It was very valuable to them.

    15. ZH

      The boats, the boats-

    16. JR

      I just wondered what technology was used.

    17. ZH

      The boats, the b- No technology.

    18. JR

      Well, technology is tools.

    19. ZH

      Exactly.

    20. JR

      Technology is levers. Technol-

    21. ZH

      Okay, the- the technology that-

    22. JR

      Whatever- whatever they had at the time was their current technology.

    23. ZH

      ... the- the- the huge- the huge wooden sledges.

    24. JR

      Huge wooden sledges?

    25. ZH

      This is the only way that today we move huge stones. This how my workmen moved 20 tons sarcophagus in a tomb.

    26. JR

      How far did they move it?

    27. ZH

      They moved it just few feet away.

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. ZH

      But we have scenes of how workmen move 60 tons statue, how they move with the sledges.

    30. JR

      Right.

  5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

    The Egyptian... The, the…

    1. JR

    2. ZH

      The Egyptian... The, the team are using a very sophisticated techniques like ultrasound, infrared. With these techniques, you do not need any more to drill. You can really see what's behind the door. And this really what I'm using right now. Then they came to me and they said, "Behind the main entrance of the pyramid, there is a corridor." And they showed to me this corridor clear in the five techniques that they're using. But they told me, "Why I have to see it? Let's go up there." We went up there and they sent an, an optic camera through the f- the stones. And they found... I could look at the corridor, 30 feet long, eight feet wide, topped with chevron shape. I think you can see that in the internet, the corridor behind the main entrance of the pyramid. Can you get it? It's in the internet, I'm sure.

    3. JR

      This void above the Grand Gallery?

    4. ZH

      The size of two trucks.

    5. JR

      What do you think that is?

    6. ZH

      I have no idea.

    7. JR

      Fascinating.

    8. ZH

      I'm just telling you what I found.

    9. JR

      And, um, have-

    10. ZH

      This was the Great Pyramid. I did more work on the third pyramid-

    11. JR

      Right.

    12. ZH

      ... it was the same techniques, and the second pyramid. This is the void.

    13. JR

      Okay, that's-

    14. ZH

      Can you see it?

    15. JR

      Wow, that's incredible.

    16. ZH

      And I think... And bring the other big void above the Grand Gallery. I think you will see it also.

    17. JR

      So find the void above the Grand Gallery, Jamie. Um, so this, it's two trucks?

    18. ZH

      The size of two trucks.

    19. JR

      The s- size of s- two semi-trucks. And, um, do you have an, any idea, like, what the inside-

    20. ZH

      I will tell you, I will tell you about my theory.

    21. JR

      Please do.

    22. ZH

      Uh, I think that it's here. Uh, that's it.

    23. JR

      So that's the void?

    24. ZH

      Yeah. Now-

    25. JR

      And it's that sha-

    26. ZH

      You know-

    27. JR

      It's in that direction, so it's at a slope?

    28. ZH

      It's above the Grand Gallery.

    29. JR

      At an angle?

    30. ZH

      That's it.

  6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00

    Well, we'll make sure…

    1. ZH

      that anyone should-

    2. JR

      Well, we'll make sure that happens. But listen, if the, the stone is 20 feet thick, the solid stone at the base. That's correct, right? And you said Osiris shaft is 50 feet. That means it can see past 20 feet, right?

    3. ZH

      But how can I-

    4. JR

      So you could see through the stone and see-

    5. ZH

      But, p- but-

    6. JR

      I mean, what they're showing-

    7. ZH

      But the Osiris shaft-

    8. JR

      ... repeated over and over again in these images.

    9. ZH

      The Osiri- the Osiris shaft, the Osir- Osiris shaft is open.

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. ZH

      It's not covered to see.

    12. JR

      I understand.

    13. ZH

      You can go and you see the Osiris shaft down.

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. ZH

      Everyone can see it.

    16. JR

      But the interior is not open and the interior is visible-

    17. ZH

      But you can see the interior.

    18. JR

      But you can't see it to the exact dimensions the way these tomographic images show it, right?

    19. ZH

      Uh.

    20. JR

      If they're using this technology to go 50 feet under the ground-

    21. ZH

      I'm, I'm telling you-

    22. JR

      ... to get an accurate depiction of the Osiris shaft-

    23. ZH

      ... I am not, I am not a scientist.

    24. JR

      I understand.

    25. ZH

      I ask it-

    26. JR

      So, but, but this is my question.

    27. ZH

      ... all the expertise-

    28. JR

      Why would you, why, why would you dismiss it if you haven't looked under there?

    29. ZH

      I, because I, I, I told you, it is not me who can dismiss this.

    30. JR

      What does it say, Jimmy?

  7. 1:30:00 – 1:32:03

    This is not true.…

    1. JR

      that these are just mythical tales.

    2. ZH

      This is not true. There is no at all a name that you told me I never heard of this name. I am an Egyptologist working in Egypt for the last 57 years. I never heard of this King List at all.

    3. JR

      Never?

    4. ZH

      Never. And no-

    5. JR

      You never even heard of it?

    6. ZH

      Why I have to hear about it? Because not true. I don't want to ma- waste my time in things like this. I am a person, give me a fact.

    7. JR

      So, in, in ancient-

    8. ZH

      Tell me, what is this list?

    9. JR

      ... Egyptian, Zep Tepi refers to the first time or the first occasion-

    10. ZH

      Who said this?

    11. JR

      ... the first ... This isn't AI. It refers to a mythical golden age of Egypt where gods lived on Earth and civilization was in its infancy. This period is often associated with the beginning of creation and the establishment of societal structures. Have you n- you've never heard of that before?

    12. ZH

      No, and this is not true.

    13. JR

      What do you mean it's not true? I mean, this is-

    14. ZH

      It's just-

    15. JR

      ... I'm, I'm getting this off of-

    16. ZH

      It ne- it never happened at all.

    17. JR

      Okay, I'm not saying it happened, I'm just saying this is something that's referred to. It s-

    18. ZH

      It's never be ... I never heard about it. It is not true. It has not existed at all.

    19. JR

      But if it, even if it doesn't exist, the myth of it exists.

    20. ZH

      I don't ... Listen, Joe. Why do I have to go to a myth of people created stories?

    21. JR

      But this is ... If you go to Wikipedia, it says-

    22. ZH

      I don't care about Wikipedia.

    23. JR

      I understand.

    24. ZH

      I care about what I see in my eyes as an archeologist or a theologian.

    25. JR

      In the my-

    26. ZH

      Br- bring any, bring-

    27. JR

      ... in all the myths, the world was said to emerge from an infinite lifeless sea when the sea r- when the sun rose for the first time in a distant period known as Zep Tepi, the first occasion. Different myths attribute it to the creation of different gods, a set of eight primordial deities called Ogdoad, the contemplative deity, uh, Ptah, and the mysterious transcendent god, Amun.While describing these different cosmologies, completed or competed to some ex- extent. In other ways, they were complementary in different aspects of Egyptian understanding of creation. It's the Egyptian creation myth.

Episode duration: 1:58:34

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