Joe Rogan Experience #2329 - Ehsan Ahmad

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Oh, hey, fella.

Ehsan Ahmad 0:13 Oh, what's up? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:15 (laughs) What's going on, man?

Ehsan Ahmad 0:17 Good, good.

Joe Rogan 0:18 It's good to see you.

Ehsan Ahmad 0:19 Good to be back.

Joe Rogan 0:19 Yeah, brother. I s- I've had a, um, a few interesting days, just chilling and relaxing, and trying to stay off the news, man. And then this morning, someone sent me, uh, a video of, uh, Bridget McCrone, Macron's wife-

Ehsan Ahmad 0:33 Oh, I saw that.

Joe Rogan 0:33 ... fucking face-slapping him.

Ehsan Ahmad 0:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:35 Yeah, that's wild, dude.

Ehsan Ahmad 0:37 Dude, m- my favorite is the look into the camera once he realizes I got caught.

Joe Rogan 0:41 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 0:41 Yeah, he's like, "Oh," and he tr- it's like, it's very, you could put like the Curb Your Enthusiasm's theme song right after that.

Joe Rogan 0:48 Imagine what goes on behind c- closed doors if someone's bitch-slapping you on a private jet. Like, what is that?

Ehsan Ahmad 0:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:57 That's a weird relationship, man.

Ehsan Ahmad 0:59 Well, she was his teacher.

Joe Rogan 1:01 Sh- if it was a she.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03 (laughs) Oh, yeah, there's a whole, like...

Joe Rogan 1:04 There's a whole, like, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06 There's a whole, like, thing.

Joe Rogan 1:06 Like, bro, Candace Owens did like five hours on it.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:11 (laughs) That's a little bit crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:12 But, yeah, she's the wrong dog to go after you.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:16 Like, if you're, if you're trying to break into a hou- that's the wrong guard dog.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:19 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20 Like, she, she gets on something, she's like a pit bull.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:22 No, yeah, she really breaks down... I had a friend once show me her breakdown of like a Taylor Swift situation, 'cause I didn't know Candace talks about, like, that sort of stuff as well, and I was like, "Oh, this is like a really in-depth breakdown of what's going on with Taylor Swift." That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:35 Oh, she did the whole Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively thing, and I'm eating popcorn.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:41 What?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42 What? No!

Ehsan Ahmad 1:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:46 But the fucking Bridget McCrone one is the craziest, because I think she's right. I don't, obviously, I don't know. But at the end of the day, the first thing you have to say is, what kind of a 40-year-old dates a 14-year-old?

Ehsan Ahmad 2:01 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 2:02 That's crazy.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:04 Well, that's the thing-

Joe Rogan 2:04 Even if it's a woman and a man. Well, bur- first of all, Kurt Metzger says it's 14. I think the internet says it's 15.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:09 But Metzger goes, "But it's definitely 14."

Ehsan Ahmad 2:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:12 "She was younger than that." Did you see me get cornered by him l- yesterday-

Ehsan Ahmad 2:16 Oh, my god.

Joe Rogan 2:17 ... while we were eating dinner?

Ehsan Ahmad 2:17 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:17 Bro, he just hit me with like seven different conspiracies in a row, and I'm like, "Guys, guys, I'm getting cornered."

Ehsan Ahmad 2:23 (laughs) It's so hard to follow him. All (laughs) the time, and you're just like, "Whoa, okay."

Joe Rogan 2:27 I felt like a woman trapped at like an office party and the guy who's hitting on them, like won't leave 'em alone.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:33 They can't escape.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:34 Vi- yeah, have you ever seen that meme of that like girl at the party and the guy is just talking at him?

Joe Rogan 2:38 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 2:38 (laughs) That's kinda what it feels like.

Joe Rogan 2:39 Yeah, yeah. It's always like, you know, something about flat earth or something.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:43 But, yeah, no, it's-

Joe Rogan 2:43 Ugh.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:44 I saw that and I was like, "That's crazy that this happened this morning." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:47 Crazy.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:48 But the, but the facts of the situation, 40 and let's say 15.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:53 Let's give them b- the benefit of the doubt.

Ehsan Ahmad 2:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:55 15 is the ch- I have a 15-year-old. They're little kids, essentially. You know? They're like three years away from being an adult.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:02 Three whole years.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:04 Well, you, you, you know what's, you know what's interesting, is that like I- I listen to a lot of true crime, and they'll say that like pedophiles and stuff will put themselves in situations where they can abuse, and that's, I think, that that's why there's a lot of-

Joe Rogan 3:16 Nickelodeon.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:16 Yeah, Nickelodeon.

Joe Rogan 3:16 The Nickelodeon thing.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:18 It's like the J- Jimmy Savile thing in England.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:20 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 3:21 The craziest.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:22 (laughs) That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 3:23 The craziest.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:24 I was trying to explain to someone this week, I was like, "Imagine if Mr. Rogers was the biggest pedophile that ever existed."

Joe Rogan 3:29 But also looked like one.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:32 That's what's craz- Like, Mr. Rogers looks like a sweet guy.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:35 You know what I mean?

Ehsan Ahmad 3:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:36 Like, back in the day, like if a guy like Mr. Rogers was teaching kids, you wouldn't even get creeped out. It's like, "Oh, he's just a sweet guy."

Ehsan Ahmad 3:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:42 There's sweet people out there. But Jimmy Savile looks like a monster. He looked like a monster.

Ehsan Ahmad 3:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:47 Like, didn't look like a real person. He looked like a w- what was that fucking movie? There was that movie that was based on a book. Oh, my god. Uh, Johnny Depp was in it. (snaps fingers) Um ... (snaps fingers) The guy from How I Met Your Mother was in it.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:04 I'm... (laughs) This is not ringing any bells for me.

Joe Rogan 4:06 It's a really weird book that's like half fantastic, half realistic, sort of almo- almost Harry Potter-ish.

Narrator 4:14 The Secret Window?

Joe Rogan 4:14 Oh, that's it.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:15 Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:16 Let me see what it looks like.

Narrator 4:17 Uh, based on a Stephen King thing?

Joe Rogan 4:19 No, that's not it.

Narrator 4:19 Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:20 No, no, no, no, no. No, it was like a recent... Fuck.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:23 Is it like almost Harry Potter-ish? Is it Magical Beasts?

Joe Rogan 4:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:26 That, that movie?

Joe Rogan 4:27 That's it.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:28 Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:28 Oh, that's it. Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:29 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:29 It's Magical Beasts.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:30 He looks like an evil person in Magical Beasts.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:32 Right, ri- (laughs) right.

Joe Rogan 4:34 Right?

Ehsan Ahmad 4:34 Like a bad wizard.

Joe Rogan 4:35 Like, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:35 He definitely looks like a bad wizard.

Joe Rogan 4:36 Doesn't look like a real human.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:38 But I wonder too if like-

Joe Rogan 4:39 Pull up a picture of Jimmy Savile.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:41 I-

Joe Rogan 4:41 Just look at that guy.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:42 I think it's m- it might be so hard to look past, like, everything that he's done-

Joe Rogan 4:47 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:47 ... for us to not see the monster. Like, there, it must've been like, "Oh," 'cause-

Joe Rogan 4:50 No, no, no.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:52 That's a monster. That's... yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:54 That's a monster. That's a monster. That's a monster. No matter what, that's a monster.

Joe Rogan 4:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 4:57 That's a monster, with the glasses. There's something about his eyes. Obviously, we know too much, right?

Joe Rogan 5:03 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:03 But look at this. Shirt open. No, no, no, you know, like no T-shirt underneath it. Chest hair. Fucking something around his neck.

Joe Rogan 5:13 (laughs) That matches the shirt.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:14 A tie. I guess a tie just around his neck. He's a creeper.

Joe Rogan 5:19 Yeah. But at the time, they were like, "Oh, he's just a British eccentric guy." That's the v- uh, th- the... We British are known for our weird people.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:25 God the fuck.

Joe Rogan 5:26 (laughs) Yeah. 50 years just...

Ehsan Ahmad 5:29 God. And died and no one ever caught him.

Joe Rogan 5:32 No one ever caught him. BBC covered it up.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:35 Oh...

Joe Rogan 5:35 (laughs) Crazy. Just didn't-

Ehsan Ahmad 5:37 Dark.

Joe Rogan 5:37 ... let him get away.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:38 Dark. What the hell?

Joe Rogan 5:38 Used to hang out at the hospitals that he would...

Ehsan Ahmad 5:41 Oh. Well, that's the Sandusky thing too.

Joe Rogan 5:43 Mm-hmm.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:43 Sandusky thing, same thing, like everybody knew about it.

Joe Rogan 5:46 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 5:46 Oh, dude. Yeah, everyone knew about it, but they were winning, so (laughs) we were like-

Joe Rogan 5:50 Oh, that is so...

Ehsan Ahmad 5:50 ... "Dude, we win championships." I didn't think-

Joe Rogan 5:52 That's the devil. That's-

Ehsan Ahmad 5:53 It's-

Joe Rogan 5:53 If the devil's a real thing, that's where the devil lives.

Ehsan Ahmad 5:56 Mm-hmm. It's very funny to me, at least for the foot- you know, that they exposed Sandusky after they went seven and six. They were like (laughs) they were winning-

Joe Rogan 6:03 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 6:03 They were winning for so long, and then they're like, "Seven and six, uh-uh."

Joe Rogan 6:07 Is that really what happened?

Ehsan Ahmad 6:08 It was the same... They went, they had a horrible year, and then the next year, Sandusky, the Sandusky thing came out.

Joe Rogan 6:12 Oh, my god. They needed to make changes.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:14 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:14 He wasn't doing his job.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:16 I think he had already retired at that point too. It was-

Joe Rogan 6:18 Oh, well...

Ehsan Ahmad 6:18 Just crazy.

Joe Rogan 6:19 That's even...

Ehsan Ahmad 6:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:19 Yeah, that's when it's over, 'cause you're not valuable anymore.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:22 Right. And so eventually-

Joe Rogan 6:23 You gotta, you gotta Biden that motherfucker. You gotta Pelosi that motherfucker right into the rocks.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:28 You know, like Dianne Feinstein?... in a wheelchair, being told by her operatives who to vote for.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:34 Right. That's what you gotta do if you're somebody's-

Joe Rogan 6:36 Like, ride that bitch-

Ehsan Ahmad 6:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:37 ... into the rocks.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:38 'Cause if you get out, then they start investigating you like, "Whoa."

Ehsan Ahmad 6:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:42 Stay active.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:44 (laughs) Yeah, you gotta keep, you gotta keep achieving.

Joe Rogan 6:47 You gotta keep the con alive. Keep these people fed because they will feed you to the wolves.

Ehsan Ahmad 6:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:51 Right? If you're a corrupt politician, you gotta stay in office. You can't retire. If you retire, you're open game.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:00 'Cause now you're, uh, you want a podcast, retired, talking shit? Let's get him.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:05 Yeah, that's true. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:05 And they start auditing you and the r- oh, everyone's got some fucking shady sh-... They're all ma-... They made way too much money.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:12 Dude.

Joe Rogan 7:12 There's no way.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:14 There's no way it's not shady when you're worth 200 million and you make 170 grand a year. That's crazy.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:22 Right. And then you have to stay.

Joe Rogan 7:24 You gotta stay.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:24 You have to.

Joe Rogan 7:25 You gotta ride it into the rocks.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:26 Also, there's something about that power-

Joe Rogan 7:27 You can't jump off the boat.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:28 ... that you don't wanna give up on. That's also-

Joe Rogan 7:29 100%.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:29 Yeah. It's-

Joe Rogan 7:30 100%.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:30 ... some like weird Darth... Like the Emperor Palpatine. They all look like Emperor Palpatine.

Joe Rogan 7:35 They... (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 7:35 Every politician looks like Emperor Palpatine when they're old. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 7:39 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 7:40 Male or female.

Joe Rogan 7:41 It's the weight, the weight of it all-

Ehsan Ahmad 7:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:43 ... weighing on you. You know what I'm saying?

Ehsan Ahmad 7:45 Like you have to know that you're like, "Man, I'm like..." At a certain point, I'm fucking over so many people.

Joe Rogan 7:49 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 7:50 It's gotta weigh on your soul, hopefully.

Joe Rogan 7:52 Bro, you age. I think the best people age the hardest, you know? I think Obama like re-... Uh, was probably like a very idealistic young man who really wanted to change the world.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:07 And that dude aged more than anybody.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:09 Well, in thou-

Joe Rogan 8:10 You know what I mean?

Ehsan Ahmad 8:10 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, you can see it.

Joe Rogan 8:12 Who ages least? Trump.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:13 Trump. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:13 Trump just fucking-

Ehsan Ahmad 8:15 Th- this is something that, uh-

Joe Rogan 8:16 He just brushed that shit off his shoulders like it was nothing.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:18 This is something that Derek said to me in like 2018 once. We were talking about it. He's like, "I don't know," 'cause he's not a big politics guy, but it's like, "Uh, I don't know if I trust Trump. His hair's not getting gray."

Joe Rogan 8:25 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 8:25 What kind of politician doesn't get gray hairs? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:29 Well, the hair itself, even he makes fun of his own hair.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:32 He, he was on stage talking about his comb-over.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:35 Yeah, he's funny.

Joe Rogan 8:36 He does standup.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:37 He's doing standup. Regardless of what you think about him, foreign policy, economics, regardless, the guy is doing standup. And that's-

Ehsan Ahmad 8:45 He can work a room.

Joe Rogan 8:45 Well, that's why none of them can fuck with him 'cause he can go on a podcast easy.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 8:50 'Cause he does these stadiums where he just goes out and starts talking shit. He does Biden impressions.

Ehsan Ahmad 8:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:56 He does Biden w- wander around the room like he doesn't know where he is. He's funny, man. Okay? And the problem is he does it all the time, so he's got an act.

Ehsan Ahmad 9:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:05 He's basically like a comic. Like in a lot of ways. That's the problem, is like these other people are h-... They have canned speeches that are written by a bunch of people that have this like really well-worded, you know, explanation of what's wrong with the world, what's wrong with the country, and what they're gonna do. But it's not them. It's not them. That's why they all fall apart w- when they're talking and, you know, they just don't have any idea what the question's gonna be. That's why they had to be protected.

Ehsan Ahmad 9:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:36 All of them have to be protected from themselves.

Ehsan Ahmad 9:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Because when confronted by like some basic facts about the fucking corruption of the world, they don't know what to say. And they, they crumble. And Trump just starts talking shit.

Ehsan Ahmad 9:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:49 He just starts talking shit. "Well, they're all corrupt." He just starts going into it and talking about crooked Hillary and this and that and they said this and they said that.

Ehsan Ahmad 9:58 Yeah, I, it's just the him saying what's on his mind, regardless of whether or not, you know, people like fact check him or whatever. Rega-... I think people are just used to that now.

Joe Rogan 10:06 It's also-

Ehsan Ahmad 10:06 Like that's how they consume media now, is like, "I need the real person to talk to me."

Joe Rogan 10:12 Yes. It's also like, they're like, "Oh, he's a crazy person." I'm like, "Yeah, that's the only kind of person that would survive what you're trying to do to him."

Ehsan Ahmad 10:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:21 That's the only kind of guy that gets through. Like you want a perfect person? A perfect person morally falls apart-

Ehsan Ahmad 10:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:27 ... by the time, beli- them uh- been indicted and the 34 counts, felony counts, like your, your whole body is just destroyed by the stress of you possibly going to jail for the rest of your life. You have to be a fucking insane person to ride that out and not look like anything even happened. Then you get shot.

Ehsan Ahmad 10:44 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:45 You, you get up after you got shot. You're fucking bleeding from your ear and you go fight, fight, fight. You gotta be a crazy person to get through... This, he's a nightmare for anybody that's trying to rig a system. Like that guy's the nightmare. He's the final boss of fuck you.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:01 You know?

Ehsan Ahmad 11:02 Yeah. O- and, and also to want like a good guy to be your president is kinda cr-... Like a good guy is your neighbor. Like there's no- this-

Joe Rogan 11:09 Well, it'd be nice if we could get a good guy for president.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:12 I don't think so. I don't think they would want that job.

Joe Rogan 11:14 Oh, no, they wouldn't want that job.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:15 No, they wouldn't want that job.

Joe Rogan 11:15 They wouldn't want that job.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:16 There's no way.

Joe Rogan 11:16 But I don't-

Ehsan Ahmad 11:17 That's an awful job.

Joe Rogan 11:18 ... I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's just... Uh, I think he's... Like a lot of people that just want success, they ha- they want a certain kind of success and, and also they want a certain kind of success publicly.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:33 They want everybody to know that they're successful.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Like that's a, like, hyper competitive person that's locked into a very specific kinda game. It's the game of look at all the shit I got.

Ehsan Ahmad 11:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Look at all the power I have and look at all the shit I got. And they're all playing that game. They're just playing that game sneaky. They're playing that game talking about the importance of cl- addressing climate change and, you know, and all, all, all sorts of weird shit they're-

Ehsan Ahmad 11:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:59 ... talking about. But they're all playing the same goddamn game.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:03 They're in a legacy game.

Joe Rogan 12:03 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:03 They wanna see, how long can my name last post me dying? Like that's the type of person-

Joe Rogan 12:09 Bro, it's what happens-

Ehsan Ahmad 12:10 ... that lives-

Joe Rogan 12:10 ... with cults. It's what happens with everything. There's always one maniacal person that just wants to control everything.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:21 Hm.

Joe Rogan 12:21 Everything. That's why CEOs backstab each other and try to ke- get each other removed and you hear about that, like internal coups at companies.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:30 Everybody's always like, "Fuck you, I'm the man. How could he be the man when I'm the man?"

Ehsan Ahmad 12:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:35 And they just want to... They fucking ruin each other, man.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:37 Yeah. I feel like that's why Dick Cheney was so effective. He's like, "I'll just be number two."

Joe Rogan 12:41 Bro, he was straight Satan.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:43 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:44 He was in the Bible. That guy was in the Bible.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:46 He didn't have a pulse.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:48 At one, at one point in time, no, legitimately.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:50 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:50 He had an artificial heart, no pulse, and responsible for who knows how many deaths.

Ehsan Ahmad 12:56 R- oh, countless. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:57 Who knows?

Ehsan Ahmad 12:58 Just a whole 20-year war that we had no business being in.

Joe Rogan 13:01 Not only that, you wanna talk about, like, transparent, this was all transparent before the internet. But imagine, it was kind of the internet was around, right? But not the same. The internet in 2001, there was no social media.

Ehsan Ahmad 13:13 No.

Joe Rogan 13:13 It was a different kind of internet. But this guy was... They were getting... His former company was getting no-bid contracts-

Ehsan Ahmad 13:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:20 ... for billions of dollars to fix shit that we blew up in a war that was his idea.

Ehsan Ahmad 13:26 That's a pretty i- uh, from the outside point of view, if you have the power to make money that way, what a genius, evil thing to do.

Joe Rogan 13:32 So profitable.

Ehsan Ahmad 13:33 I know. He might... Just billions of dollars. Enough that he didn't need a heart anymore.

Joe Rogan 13:38 What do you... Like, how do you combat that with the idea also in place that capitalism is way better than communism?

Ehsan Ahmad 13:46 I just-

Joe Rogan 13:46 Which I think we all agree.

Ehsan Ahmad 13:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:48 So how do you combat that?

Ehsan Ahmad 13:49 I don't... I think I'm maybe a little more cynical than most people, 'cause I, I just, the way I look at it now is, like, I don't think you can. 'Cause I think whatever system that you end up putting in place, regardless, there are the haves and the have-nots.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 14:03 Right? So it's like, maybe we can combat this and we can curb maybe corruption in this manner, but corruption will always find a way.

Joe Rogan 14:10 Right, but is there a way to minimize it? Is there a way to make it less available? Like, it seems like... I'm not, I'm just guessing.

Ehsan Ahmad 14:18 Without, without violence?

Joe Rogan 14:18 I never been a congressman. I never, I've never been a congressman, I'm just guessing.

Ehsan Ahmad 14:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:22 But my friend Tulsi was a congresswoman for eight years.

Ehsan Ahmad 14:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:25 And d- her experiences, like, in there are they're, they're ver- they're quite disturbing, because w- without speaking out of turn, what they, what essentially the idea that I'm getting, and then not just talking to her, talking to Fetterman, talking to multiple people.

Ehsan Ahmad 14:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:42 Is a lot of these people, they're... They go in with good intentions, and then they encounter a system that is just rigged-

Ehsan Ahmad 14:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:51 ... with grifters.

Ehsan Ahmad 14:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Like, the whole syst- you're in a grifting system. You're like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." So it's all about lobbyists and it's all about money, and then people start hedging their, their decisions of what they're gonna talk about or discuss or go, be against, because they're gonna run for re-election, which they're always doing.

Ehsan Ahmad 15:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:08 They're always in a constant cycle of generating more m- donor money and running for re-election and making everybody happy.

Ehsan Ahmad 15:15 I think, I think you, uh, at least for, like, I, you see that with AOC, someone who w- you know, when she was coming up, it was like a whole anti-system sort of Democrat.

Joe Rogan 15:24 Mm-hmm.

Ehsan Ahmad 15:24 And then 2020, endorses Biden. So it's like eventually they get you to play ball.

Joe Rogan 15:30 Well, it's like, who would she endorse if she didn't endorse Biden?

Ehsan Ahmad 15:33 I-

Joe Rogan 15:33 This is the argument that Bernie Sanders made on, on Flagrant.

Ehsan Ahmad 15:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:37 He was essentially saying to, uh, Akash and Andrew, he was saying, "What... I- my choice was either, uh, help Donald Trump or support the Democratic Party, even though they fucked him over." And so his, his choice, he made the choice to support Hillary.

Ehsan Ahmad 15:55 Well, I, I mean, I get it from Bernie's perspective, but if I li- like, in my mind if I'm like... I don't know, and this is me not knowing anything about how Congress works, but it's like, if I'm supposed to be the next young, like... I'm the change of the Democratic Party, I think the, the power move is to not endorse anybody there, if I'm in, like, an AOC position of just like...

Joe Rogan 16:13 I think the system is a little more locked down than we'd like to think.

Ehsan Ahmad 16:17 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 16:18 Well, clearly it is, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 16:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Because here's a good example. They were gonna release the Epstein files day one. Right?

Ehsan Ahmad 16:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Okay, what happened? What happened?

Ehsan Ahmad 16:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:27 What happened? If that's what you wanted to do before you got the job, but then you got the job and day one you couldn't do it-

Ehsan Ahmad 16:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:32 ... okay, so what are we saying? Are we saying that this is, this is more complicated? It's probably a lot more complicated. There's probably a web... And then there's also people for decades and decades-

Ehsan Ahmad 16:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:43 ... been developing relationships and working inside these fucking cr-... And that's the real government.

Ehsan Ahmad 16:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:49 That's our real government.

Ehsan Ahmad 16:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:50 That's our real government. These people realize that once they get into Congress, they realize that when they become a senator, they realize that. Like, "Okay, this is not the real government." And if you fuck with the real government, they'll take your ass out.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:02 Yeah, they'll, they'll shoot you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:04 They-

Ehsan Ahmad 17:04 Or they'll try.

Joe Rogan 17:05 They did everything to Trump.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:06 They did everything. They did indictments, they did public shame, they did... They took shots at him.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:11 But also with the Epstein thing, it's probably like, just way too many people are on that list-

Joe Rogan 17:16 Bro.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:16 ... for our government to be even any sort of functional. Look at the two of them. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:22 (laughs) It's a hostage video. Don't.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:23 Dude, (laughs) dude, he looks so scared to be there right now.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Bro, this is-

Ehsan Ahmad 17:26 Just like-

Joe Rogan 17:26 ... is a hostage video.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:27 That's, that's Kash right now being like, "Don't say the wrong name or I'm dead."

Joe Rogan 17:31 Yeah, it does-

Ehsan Ahmad 17:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:32 It's a hostage video, son.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:34 Yeah. Th- there's, there's no winning in that, 'cause there's no... 'Cause it's like, that's... Epstein is across the aisle. That's everybody.

Joe Rogan 17:40 The thing about them saying that, "I've seen the file, he definitely killed himself." Well, what could be in the file? Let's, let's strong man this.

Ehsan Ahmad 17:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:49 What could be in the file that would convince you that the autopsy that was done independently by Dr. Michael Baden, who's that famous HBO autopsy guy. Do you know that guy?

Ehsan Ahmad 18:01 No.

Joe Rogan 18:01 You ever see that show? HBO's Autopsy?

Ehsan Ahmad 18:03 No, I've never seen that. Ooh.

Joe Rogan 18:04 Great show. From a while back, but this show was all about how they caught murderers-

Ehsan Ahmad 18:10 Mm.

Joe Rogan 18:10 ... who did a lot of crazy shit. And just, just insane things that some people did. One guy, his wife died, and he kept her body in his house and he kept buying, like, cases and cases of perfume. And he was covering her decaying body with perfume to stop the odor, and he inserted some sort of a rubber fake vagina-

Ehsan Ahmad 18:35 Ah, okay.

Joe Rogan 18:35 ... into the corpse. (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 18:38 (laughs) Bro.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Yeah, what a...

Ehsan Ahmad 18:39 What a guy.

Joe Rogan 18:40 Bro. When they described... So this guy, anyway-

Ehsan Ahmad 18:42 Hm.

Joe Rogan 18:42 ... he's...... he's got a famous show that was on HBO, that was on for a long time, like many seasons. All these insane murder cases, like how they caught these people. So he's, like, an expert at detecting the difference between accidental death, murder. And he looked at the autopsy. He looked at what had happened to Epstein's body and said, "This is indicative of someone being strangled to death-"

Ehsan Ahmad 19:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:07 "... with these kind of breaks in the bones on the neck. This is not, like, what happens when you hang yourself." And it, they'll, he was like, "The mark is also in the wrong place. It's low on the neck." Whereas, so if someone strangles themselves, the weight of their body, which is what's killing them-

Ehsan Ahmad 19:21 Up here.

Joe Rogan 19:21 ... it all goes up to, like, the top of your chin.

Ehsan Ahmad 19:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:24 And he's like, "None of these are, these injuries are injuries that are consistent with someone who was strangled." So what could be in, if they don't have a video, so if they say the cameras-

Ehsan Ahmad 19:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:34 ... were down, okay?

Ehsan Ahmad 19:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:34 So there's no video. All right. So what do you have that makes you think that he 100% committed suicide? And how do you let the guy who was in one of the most high-profile cases of sex trafficking in history, how do you let that guy just not be watched?

Ehsan Ahmad 19:52 But, but also-

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Ehsan Ahmad 20:48 How, why is Ghislaine still alive? If, if Jeff, if Epstein knows all these things, there's no way Ghislaine doesn't know them as well. She's, she's, like, there. She's there the whole time. I feel like she knows everything that he knows.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Well, she's in jail where they get, get to do yoga.

Ehsan Ahmad 21:04 Yeah, so she got a sweet deal.

Joe Rogan 21:07 She's been getting her yoga game up. (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 21:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:07 Well, she's, she is alive, though, which is kind of crazy. Like, you, you gotta wonder, like, if they killed him because they couldn't trust him. Alle- allegedly.

Ehsan Ahmad 21:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:14 Let's just say.

Ehsan Ahmad 21:15 Let's just say allegedly.

Joe Rogan 21:16 Let, maybe, let's give Kash and Dan the benefit of the doubt, and say maybe there's something in that file that shows that he ... What would convince you? What could be in the file that would convince you?

Ehsan Ahmad 21:27 Yeah. I mean, it would have to be active, it'd have, it would have to be active politicians, presidents, billionaires. Like it, it's gotta be, like, that level of, like ... I mean, the f- the fucking prince was there.

Joe Rogan 21:42 Did you ever see what Epstein's cellmate looked like?

Ehsan Ahmad 21:44 No.

Joe Rogan 21:45 Bro.

Ehsan Ahmad 21:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:47 You ready for this? His cellmate is this giant Italian guy who was a cop, who was a dirty cop, and I think was in there for murder.

Ehsan Ahmad 21:58 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:59 I think it was, like, a bad drug deal or some shit. Let f- let's find the details on this, but when you see what this guy looked like, you're like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" He looks like, like The Rock.

Ehsan Ahmad 22:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:10 The guy's giant.

Ehsan Ahmad 22:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:12 And this is his cellmate. This mur- you put a murderer in with a guy who's the most high-profile witness and defendant in history, dealing with a sex slave operation for elites? And you left him in there with a giant murderer?

Ehsan Ahmad 22:32 Right. There should be a guard around him at all times. But they, yeah, they knew they were gonna liquidate him, like almost immediately.

Joe Rogan 22:37 You know what I mean. You get an image of him, Jamie?

Narrator 22:39 Uh, I was digging through details of what he did that I hadn't... remember, I don't remember hearing.

Joe Rogan 22:42 What the cop did?

Narrator 22:43 Yeah. He had four life sentences.

Ehsan Ahmad 22:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:45 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 22:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:46 Wait, well, let's show the picture of him.

Ehsan Ahmad 22:48 Whoa.

Narrator 22:48 Well, I saw it, right?

Joe Rogan 22:48 The picture's insane.

Ehsan Ahmad 22:49 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 22:50 When you see what he looks like, you're like, "This guy looks like a, a heavyweight MMA fighter."

Ehsan Ahmad 22:53 Right. They were just waiting for him to die.

Joe Rogan 22:55 Bro, he literally looks like a gorilla. Look at him. Far right picture, that one, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 22:59 Damn.

Joe Rogan 22:59 Look at the size of this guy. Imagine-

Ehsan Ahmad 23:03 Damn.

Joe Rogan 23:03 ... oh, someone got strangled to death and this guy's the cellmate? Nothing to see here, folks.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:08 Look at the size-

Ehsan Ahmad 23:09 (laughs)

Narrator 23:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:09 ... of the fucking guy.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:10 (clapping)

Joe Rogan 23:10 Ex-Westchester cop gets four life terms in prison for quadruple homicide. So he's already in jail for four life sentences.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:17 All you have to do is give him tuna fish. You get tuna from the commissary. Just kill this guy.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:22 Like, what are you gonna get? We're gonna get you hookers every month, bring in a hooker. What are you gonna get?

Ehsan Ahmad 23:26 Damn.

Joe Rogan 23:27 I mean, I'm not saying that that's ha- that happened.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:29 I mean ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:29 But I'm saying-

Ehsan Ahmad 23:30 If- if-

Joe Rogan 23:30 ... if a guy's in jail for four life sentences, like, that would be-

Narrator 23:34 One, one of them-

Joe Rogan 23:34 ... a good guy to hire.

Narrator 23:35 One of them is strangling someone to death with a zip tie.

Joe Rogan 23:37 Oh, Jesus.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:37 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 23:38 He's good at it. He's good at it.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:39 Jesus Christ, he strangled someone to death with a zip tie.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:42 Tortured him.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Holy ... What is his name?

Ehsan Ahmad 23:44 Martin Liu.

Joe Rogan 23:45 Tartaglione. Tartaglione.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:47 He's like, he's just like a character-

Ehsan Ahmad 23:49 (laughs) Right.

Joe Rogan 23:49 ... in a bad novel.

Narrator 23:50 It's a strong man that, though he wasn't technically his cellmate at the time of the death. He was moved.

Joe Rogan 23:54 Hey, they moved me.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Narrator 23:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:56 Don't worry about it. I wasn't even there, bro.

Ehsan Ahmad 23:59 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:00 I wasn't even there. I was just two cells down.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:03 And my door was locked, for sure.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:05 Right. Ooh, I mean, you can't tell 'cause the video's gone, but I'm, I'm, I'm stuck there.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Listen, if they have video-

Ehsan Ahmad 24:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:10 ... I mean, please, show it so I can prove my innocence.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:13 You know. Meanwhile, now he's got fucking sandwiches, Jimmy John's gets delivered-

Ehsan Ahmad 24:17 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:18 ... to the prison. (laughs)

Narrator 24:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:19 He's, he's-

Ehsan Ahmad 24:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:20 ... he's eating great.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:22 Extra yard time.

Joe Rogan 24:23 He's got a fucking laptop in his room. Like-

Ehsan Ahmad 24:25 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:25 ... what's going on? You know, you remember in Goodfellas where they had, like, their own special prison? Apparently, that, that was real. They used to really have it set up like that.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:34 That makes sense.

Joe Rogan 24:34 Where, like, mob guys would pay people off so when they went to prison, they had, like, a big prison cell and they would cook in there and they would do-

Ehsan Ahmad 24:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:40 ... a bunch of shit. Like, for real, they just had to stay there and hang out with each other.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:43 Ah, dude, that's so, it's so great. Corruption is always corruption, huh? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:46 Corruption is always corruption, man.

Ehsan Ahmad 24:48 It's always, there's, there's no way around it. It's just a part of our (laughs) reality.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Yeah. It's always corruption. I was reading about this, uh, famous Mexican singer who was supposed to be playing in Dallas.Um, he had a f- 50,000-seat place. He was doing the place where, like, the Cowboys play.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:07 And they canceled his visa.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:10 Really?

Joe Rogan 25:11 Yeah. Because he, he sings those Narcos songs.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:14 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:16 Mmm.

Joe Rogan 25:16 And one of ... Which are ap- apparently like s- It's gangsta rap.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:21 It's the Mexican version of gangsta rap.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:24 But gangsta rap is fine.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like gangsta- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:29 Gangsta rap. (laughs)

Narrator 25:30 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:30 Weird, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 25:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 A little weird.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:32 That's truly the reason? Just 'cause he sang the Narcos song?

Joe Rogan 25:34 Well, he did, and he had an image of one of the guys at his concert while he was, like, singing the song. There was an image of one of the, uh, one of the head guys.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:43 Yeah. Well, I think to sing one of those Narcos songs, you need to get it, like, approved by the guy.

Joe Rogan 25:48 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:48 So it's, like, a part of the whole thing. But it's like-

Joe Rogan 25:50 Yeah. So he had an image of the guy, like, in homage to him while he sang this song.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 25:54 And they're like, "That's where we draw the line."

Ehsan Ahmad 25:57 Mmm.

Narrator 25:57 It might've been a different guy.

Ehsan Ahmad 25:59 What do you mean?

Narrator 25:59 Similar situation, uh, a singer in a different band had that problem. Looking at the article now.

Joe Rogan 26:04 I thought it said him.

Narrator 26:05 It's saying this Alvarez is the guy that you're talking about for Dallas. And then it said-

Ehsan Ahmad 26:08 Yeah.

Narrator 26:08 ... earlier this year, v- visa's revoked for this band.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:12 So why did Alvarez?

Joe Rogan 26:13 But didn't Alvarez also have something similar?

Narrator 26:15 I, I, just ... I'm just saying this is what the article said.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Does anything else say in the article?

Narrator 26:19 Describing exactly what the article says.

Joe Rogan 26:20 Which article? Is this from ... This is from USA Today?

Narrator 26:22 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:22 Yeah. Is there anything that says what ... Why Al- Alvarez was denied?

Joe Rogan 26:26 Yeah. So, okay, so maybe I got it wrong. So it's another guy did that.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:29 And so was he denied as well?

Narrator 26:31 Yeah, yeah. A bun- it's ... The article is saying multiple people have had these sing- the singers from these types of bands.

Joe Rogan 26:36 Oh, I see, I see, I see.

Narrator 26:38 So a few of them.

Joe Rogan 26:38 So they're revoking a lot of these visas-

Narrator 26:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:40 ... recently, now that Trump's in place.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:43 Eh.

Joe Rogan 26:43 It is kind of crazy.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:44 Eh, he's just a cis- it, uh, at the same time, it is just songs.

Joe Rogan 26:48 I know.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:49 Yeah, it's like-

Joe Rogan 26:49 It is just songs, but it's ... I guess the idea is that it's songs celebrating th- the cartel culture.

Ehsan Ahmad 26:56 Uh, I'm like-

Joe Rogan 26:58 But, but why is gangsta rap okay?

Ehsan Ahmad 27:00 Right. And it's like, cartel culture is, like, a real thing.

Joe Rogan 27:03 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:03 And, like, what are you gonna try to stop the art that comes outta that as well?

Joe Rogan 27:07 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 27:07 Like, people live those lives. People like-

Joe Rogan 27:09 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:09 The art should be out there. It's art.

Joe Rogan 27:10 Also, it's a real thing because we have stupid drug laws.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:13 Y- Oh, my God. Oh, the, the-

Joe Rogan 27:15 That's the reality.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:17 Anti-marijuana, uh, THC is on the governor's desk today.

Joe Rogan 27:20 Oh, boy.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:20 I know. It's, like ... And it's, like, it's so funny that it's like you wanna be seen as, like, tough on the border and, like, tough on immigration.

Joe Rogan 27:28 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:28 And yet you hand the cartels a big win by, by making THC illegal. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 27:34 From what I heard, uh, there's an issue, um, that one of the issues in any time, any time there's, like, uh, especially with marijuana laws.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:42 It's the prison lobby. Prison lobbies-

Ehsan Ahmad 27:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:44 ... have a say.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:45 Like, prison lobbies are very powerful.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 27:47 They're very big and, and they don't wanna cut back on business.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:50 No.

Narrator 27:50 It's the devil again.

Ehsan Ahmad 27:51 (laughs)

Narrator 27:52 It's the devil again. Same with alcohol companies.

Joe Rogan 27:53 It's, yeah ...

Ehsan Ahmad 27:54 And, uh, big pharma.

Joe Rogan 27:55 Yeah, alcohol companies for sure. They don't wanna, like, lose alcohol, but I don't think they would.

Narrator 28:00 I, I don't think so.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:00 I mean, maybe they've done studies.

Joe Rogan 28:01 I think they already know alcohol sales are down wherever weed's popular.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:04 Interesting.

Narrator 28:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:05 Not like no one's drinking, obviously, but they're down. And it's a big pharma thing, too, where it's like they ... If people self-medicate their anxiety with m- weed, which is what a lot of people do, then they're not gonna go to the doctor for pills.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:18 Well, that's a slippery slope, isn't it? Self-medicating your anxiety with weed.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:22 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:24 (laughs) That could go south.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:26 I'm not saying that's a good thing.

Joe Rogan 28:27 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 28:27 I'm just saying-

Joe Rogan 28:28 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 28:28 ... (laughs) that's what happens is someone-

Joe Rogan 28:30 Well, people drink for depression.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:32 Same thing.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:32 It's, like, that's a terrible strategy.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:34 It's a terrible strategy, but the option should be there for you (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 28:36 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:37 The government shouldn't say, the government shouldn't be like, "No, you should get your, your self-medication. You should ... We ... Just give, uh, let us have your medication."

Joe Rogan 28:43 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 28:43 "Let the big pharma have their medication."

Joe Rogan 28:44 Well, we should ... If you ... We're gonna apply this kind of control-

Ehsan Ahmad 28:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:47 ... it should be to food. Like, we shouldn't be able to drink Coca-Cola anymore then. Then we shouldn't be able to eat french fries. Like-

Ehsan Ahmad 28:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:52 What are we doing? Like, what are we doing? What are-

Ehsan Ahmad 28:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Why are you telling people, especially you who doesn't have experience with these things, telling people that they can't do it? It's a stupid thing to do.

Ehsan Ahmad 29:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:02 It's stupid because it, all it does is empower illegal organizations. But if at the same time it empowers prisons, that's a problem. Like, "We make money too. We get our cut."

Ehsan Ahmad 29:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:14 You know? Our cut is we get to lock people up and use them as human batteries to generate money for a private prison system.

Ehsan Ahmad 29:21 Y- yeah, but, uh, and it must be a lot of money for the, for ... 'Cause both Democrats and Republicans voted for this in, in Texas.

Joe Rogan 29:28 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 29:28 So it's like it must make a lot of money 'cause it's, like, an $8 billion industry in Texas-

Joe Rogan 29:32 Wow.

Ehsan Ahmad 29:32 ... that they're just throwing away in September. So there's gotta be ... The, what they make in those private prisons must be immense.

Joe Rogan 29:39 Well, I mean, it might not just be that. It might be, you know, we're saying private prisons, but we're just guessing.

Ehsan Ahmad 29:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:44 It might be a bunch of different factors in place, bunch of different things. But at the end of the day, it's stupid. Because these kind of drug laws, all they indue is, all the do is empower the cartels.

Ehsan Ahmad 29:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:54 And that's what, not what we want, right? We don't want to empower organized crime. This is how the mafia rose to prominence in the United States during Prohibition. That was Al Capone.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:05 I mean, he made his money moonshining.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:07 Right. And then, and then to turn around and be like, "Well, he can't sing about the cartel life, but we're-"

Joe Rogan 30:11 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:11 "... we'll invite them in," is, like, such a crazy-

Joe Rogan 30:15 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:15 It's like a weird attack on free speech that's coming and that's li- that I don't ... I'm not a big fan of.

Joe Rogan 30:19 The Godfather is one of the greatest movies of all time.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:21 It's a movie about the mob. Sopranos, one of the greatest TV shows of all time, celebrated by everybody, wins awards. It was about the mob. It was sympathetic. The main mob character in the show was a murderer.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:35 Yeah, and he's one of my favorite characters of all time.

Joe Rogan 30:37 Love him.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:37 Tony Soprano's incredible.

Joe Rogan 30:38 (laughs)

Narrator 30:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How come that's okay?

Ehsan Ahmad 30:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:42 Right?

Ehsan Ahmad 30:42 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Right. It's weird.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:44 Like, what are we doing? Is it because the mafia's not a real threat anymore?

Ehsan Ahmad 30:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 30:47 They think they've kind of taken the teeth out of the mafia?

Ehsan Ahmad 30:50 Yeah, I mean, towards the end, uh, you see it towards the end of the, uh, series as well, them talking about how, like, the mafia can't really shake down local stores anymore 'cause they don't exist and all that. And-

Joe Rogan 30:57 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 30:58 They're probably a little ... They're definitely less afraid of the mafia, even in the late '90s.

Joe Rogan 31:02 Oh, yeah. Well, Giuliani cleaned it up.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:05 ... and the, the whole, the government really went after them in, during the John Gotti days.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:10 Like, John Gotti was, like, the last big public mob boss.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:16 You know, where everybody knew who the mob boss was. Like, and he would walk around with these, like, super expensive suits on. It was crazy to watch, man.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:24 'Cause you were, you were essentially watching, like, our equivalent to a cartel member, that it was just, like, existing as a major celebrity in society, where his name was making it onto rap songs.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:36 Right. Well, that, what's that, what's that... Oh my God, what's the guy who escaped the Mexican prison? The cartel guy?

Joe Rogan 31:40 Oh, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:41 El Chapo.

Joe Rogan 31:41 Yeah, El Chapo.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:41 Let's, yeah, you could become famous enough if you're famous.

Joe Rogan 31:44 Bro.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:44 El Chapo, Pablo f- uh, Escobar.

Joe Rogan 31:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:47 Yeah, yeah, you can become famous enough. It's, it's, it's a route to fame, for sure.

Joe Rogan 31:50 In that world.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:52 In the cartel world, but not necessarily in the mob world anymore.

Ehsan Ahmad 31:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:56 Like, in the Italian mob world, I'm sure the Italian mob's not out of business.

Ehsan Ahmad 32:00 No, but-

Joe Rogan 32:01 So if the Italian mob's in business, like, whoever's running it is not being ridiculous about it. Like, John Gotti was just being flagrant about it.

Ehsan Ahmad 32:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Just walking down the street with, like, super expensive suits on, like, "Hey, fuck you," you know? Like-

Ehsan Ahmad 32:16 Yeah. Well, I think esp- also with the mob, it's kinda easier, like, all the Italians kinda lived in the same place. All the... Now everyone's just sort of more mixed together, I would s-

Joe Rogan 32:24 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 32:24 ... I would say.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 32:25 At least th- at least in that world. It's not like... I, I, I've never walked, at least in the, in Austin or LA and be like, "Oh wow, a bunch of Italians live here."

Joe Rogan 32:34 Yeah, that's-

Ehsan Ahmad 32:35 (laughs) That's, that... I think that helps if it's in the, like... If you can do that to your community, you can control.

Joe Rogan 32:39 That definitely is what they did.

Ehsan Ahmad 32:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:40 I mean, they, they, they were all about... W- where w- where did he live? Did he live in Brooklyn or did he live in Staten Island? I forget where he lived. But w- wherever he lived, like, the area where he... I think it was Brooklyn.

Ehsan Ahmad 32:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:55 Was it, Jamie?

Narrator 32:56 Uh, gotta, uh, oh, I don't know. Would that mean, uh, abandoned mansion, Long Island, I guess? When they did that TV show about him.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Was it Bensonhurst? Is that what he w- where he was?

Ehsan Ahmad 33:07 Well, yeah, he was rich enough he probably would've been-

Joe Rogan 33:08 No, Sheepshead Bay? Wherever he was, um, was, like, a very Italian area.

Ehsan Ahmad 33:13 Hm.

Joe Rogan 33:14 Like, in the... It was known. Like, the streets were safe. Like, you, there's no breaking and entering in John Gotti's neighborhood.

Ehsan Ahmad 33:20 Right.

Narrator 33:20 Family home of John Gotti, Howard Beach?

Joe Rogan 33:21 Howard Beach, that's it. That's the beach.

Ehsan Ahmad 33:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:23 Yeah. So, also, that was also the place where, um, the Italian guys chased the Black kids into traffic. Do you remember that story?

Ehsan Ahmad 33:33 N- no, when was this?

Joe Rogan 33:34 Exhales ] This was, like, a really dark story that was in, I wanna say it was in the '80s or the '90s, but it became a famous tragedy. These, uh, Black guys were going through this Italian neighborhood and something happened, and these Italian guys chased them into traffic.

Ehsan Ahmad 33:53 Damn.

Joe Rogan 33:53 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 33:54 (laughs) Damn.

Joe Rogan 33:55 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 33:56 Yeah, tha- tha- yeah, that sorta stuff.

Joe Rogan 33:58 Yeah. "A 23-year-old Black man was killed on December 20th-"

Ehsan Ahmad 34:01 1982.

Joe Rogan 34:02 "... 1986, in Howard Beach in Queens, New York City, a racially motivated attack. Uh, Griffith and two other Black men were set upon by a group of white youths outside a pizza parlor." Oh my God, it's a Spike Lee movie.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:13 (inhales deeply)

Joe Rogan 34:14 "Two of the victims, including Griffith, were severely beaten. Griffith fed, fled onto a highway, where he was fatally struck by a passing motorist."

Ehsan Ahmad 34:22 Damn.

Joe Rogan 34:23 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:23 Damn.

Joe Rogan 34:25 "Three local teenagers were acquitted, uh, convicted, rather, of manslaughter for the death. A fourth was acquitted." Jesus Christ.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:34 No, I don't, yeah, that's a- (laughs) I never heard that story. That's-

Joe Rogan 34:37 Yeah, that was a story that I remember, um, like, right outta high school.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:41 Like, right when I was, you know, I was probably, like, 18, 19.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:45 Oh, hi, Jamie.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:46 He goes like...

Narrator 34:47 Uh, Spike Lee, Do the Right Thing, dedicated to him.

Joe Rogan 34:49 Ah, there you go.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:49 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 34:50 So tha- that is what it is.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:51 It is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:52 In '89.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:53 Damn.

Joe Rogan 34:54 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 34:54 Yeah. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think whatever comes out of this weed ban is gonna be very good.

Joe Rogan 34:58 It's not good at any... Any time you let the government make-

Ehsan Ahmad 35:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:02 ... more control, have more control over people, for no fucking-

Ehsan Ahmad 35:05 Right. I-

Joe Rogan 35:06 ... logical reason.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:07 I felt the same way about the porn ban here too, and, like, and I, and we were talking about it earlier how I've stopped watching porn.

Joe Rogan 35:12 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:12 Because I think, I mean, uh, definitely there was an addiction there, and there's also, like, you should have to work to see a naked woman.

Joe Rogan 35:20 Yeah, but let's be clear, there's not a ban here. You, just, you have to be 18.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:22 Oh, you have to be, well, you have to be 18. Right, right, right. It's not a ban, but, like, you have to be 18 and then you have to send your ID in. There's, like, t- uh, like, there's, like, biometric face scans for some of the sites you have to do. It's, like, really kinda-

Joe Rogan 35:33 Interesting.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:33 ... it's, like, really kinda, like...

Joe Rogan 35:35 They're gonna fucking blackmail the shit outta you.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:37 Yeah. Yeah, it's like really-

Joe Rogan 35:39 You know at milfs.com?

Ehsan Ahmad 35:40 Right, right, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:41 With pictures of you gooning, your dick out, your...

Ehsan Ahmad 35:44 Im- (gagging sound) Yeah, like, because well, you gotta pr- pretend that, like-

Joe Rogan 35:46 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:46 ... oh, this, this, this is gonna go to a place where no one's gonna access it? You're gonna know my porn hab-... That's, like, weird.

Joe Rogan 35:50 It's all weird because meanwhile everyone has a camera on their phone.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:53 Everyone has a camera on their computer. All those cameras can be hijacked. It's very easy to do.

Ehsan Ahmad 35:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:58 And then even if they didn't, now we have AI that will make it.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:02 Yeah, you could just, uh, ma- make porn-

Joe Rogan 36:04 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:04 ... with whoever you want.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Not just that, but make videos of you jerking off with your little-

Ehsan Ahmad 36:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:09 ... tiny, limp dick.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:11 (laughs) I mean, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to be real anymore.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:15 Y- you could be, you know, th- I mean, there's gonna 100% people get blackmailed for stuff that they didn't do.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:23 There's gonna wa-... And we're not gonna be able to know.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:26 Well-

Joe Rogan 36:26 I think they know now. I think, like, you can run 'em through programs, you know, where their video's been altered, but-

Ehsan Ahmad 36:31 But it's gonna get better and better at tricking 'em. Like, it's, the, the, how fast it's come. Like, there's gonna be a time where you probably can't even, like, use video evidence in court 'cause it'd be like, "Dude"-

Joe Rogan 36:39 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:39 ... "we don't know if this is real at all."

Joe Rogan 36:41 I think the thing that they say is that the blockchain is gonna help, so, like, every video that g- gets created gets put up on the blockchain and you'll be able to see, if that's the case, whether or not things have been altered. But-

Ehsan Ahmad 36:55 What's the, what's the block... Is that a, isn't that a crypto thing?

Joe Rogan 36:57 It is.

Ehsan Ahmad 36:58 Okay.

Joe Rogan 36:58 But it's also... So, well, I don't wanna fuck this up, so let's explain the blockchain. Give me, get me a definition of the blockchain.

Ehsan Ahmad 37:05 Yeah, that does sound (laughs) like a crypto bro trying to be like, "No, the blockchain's got it."

Joe Rogan 37:09 No, it's not a good thing.

Ehsan Ahmad 37:10 Okay.

Joe Rogan 37:10 It's just like, it's like... You know what it is? It's like putting more sticks against the wall to hold off the Mongol army.

Ehsan Ahmad 37:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 37:17 It's like, okay, we could stay safe for, like, another hour or two, or year or two, whatever it is. But I have a feeling that this AI aspect of our life is totally unmanageable at the point we're at right now. It just hasn't falled apart.

Ehsan Ahmad 37:32 No. It's, uh, y- you know, it's, it's something that, uh, we- d- we, (laughs) we... Uh, something that Marx said about capitalism is... So they made us read The Communist Manifesto (laughs) in college. And, uh, I- I would describe the first-

Joe Rogan 37:43 Keep that up, please. Oh.

Ehsan Ahmad 37:44 Yeah. I would describe the first half of the book as this, like, love letter to capitalism. Um, and then his conclusions are just very bad. That's how I feel about it. But, uh, he said that capitalism will eventually create the thing that'll destroy it.

Joe Rogan 37:56 Jesus. (sighs)

Ehsan Ahmad 37:57 And it seems like the internet was that, and now AI. It seems like it's... 'Cause once AI can do every job-

Joe Rogan 38:04 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 38:04 ... like, what are people gonna do?

Joe Rogan 38:06 A blockchain is a decentralized digital ledger that records transactions across a network of computers in a secure, transparent, and tamper-resistant way. It consists of chains... Uh, uh, it consists of a chain of blocks where each block contains a list of transactions, a timestamp, and a cryptographic link to the previous block. So I think this is the idea that it keeps security. Like, the techniques ensure data integrity-

Ehsan Ahmad 38:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:33 ... and protect against unauthorized changes. So you're basically... You're logging exactly the time. Tr- it's like a transaction. Once a transaction is recorded, it's extremely difficult to alter due to cryptographic hashing and consensus me- uh, mechanisms.

Ehsan Ahmad 38:48 Man.

Joe Rogan 38:48 So very interesting.

Ehsan Ahmad 38:49 This makes me feel old. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:51 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 38:51 I feel like my dad looking at a... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:53 Yeah. Rules like proof-

Ehsan Ahmad 38:54 Some new technology.

Joe Rogan 38:55 ... of work or proof of stake ensure agreement on the ledger's state among nodes. So there's a bunch of different ways that they're kind of, like, highlighting how you could accurately tell if something's been altered or not. But that's for now.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:10 Right. Yeah, a-

Joe Rogan 39:11 It's all just for now.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:12 And also, the use of a lot of big words in that makes me be like, "Ooh, you're not as, you're not as confident in it as you think you are as well." (laughs) I feel like you use a lot of... If you, if you're confident in something, you could explain it to a five-year-old.

Joe Rogan 39:23 Yeah, but this is complex.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:25 I think it is explaining it to a five-year-old. It's just a five-year-old's got to read it 20 times.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:28 Yeah. (laughs) Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:29 Like, you can get it, but it's complex. But there was... There's some weird shit going on. And one of 'em, this, was this study that we just found out was going on on Reddit from the University of Zurich.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Do you know about that one?

Ehsan Ahmad 39:41 No.

Joe Rogan 39:42 This one is fucking insane. What does this say?

Narrator 39:44 Explain the blockchain to a five-year-old.

Joe Rogan 39:46 Oh. Explain the blockchain (laughs) to this person.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:49 (laughs)

Narrator 39:49 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 39:49 Powerful, ChatGPT.

Joe Rogan 39:50 Yeah. Thank you, AI. Thank you, the- the thing we're trying to stop this.

Ehsan Ahmad 39:53 Oh, this is-

Joe Rogan 39:53 This is-

Ehsan Ahmad 39:53 This is Grok. Grok does this.

Joe Rogan 39:55 Grok does. Imagine a special notebook that lots of people share. When someone wants to write something in it, like, "I, I gave an apple to my friend," (clears throat) everybody checks to make sure it's true. Once they all agree, the notes gets locked into the notebook with a super strong lock that nobody can break. Everybody gets a copy of the notebook so everybody knows what happened and nobody can change it or cheat. This notebook is like a blockchain. It keeps things fair and safe for everyone. Hmm. Well, seems a little sketchy.

Ehsan Ahmad 40:21 (laughs) Exactly. Like-

Joe Rogan 40:22 Now I'm, now I'm less-

Ehsan Ahmad 40:23 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:24 ... less convinced.

Ehsan Ahmad 40:25 Yeah. I, I, I thought... I, I stopped the bullshit on the first one, like-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Now I'm less convinced.

Ehsan Ahmad 40:28 ... something's, something's about this is off.

Joe Rogan 40:29 So this university-

Ehsan Ahmad 40:30 It seems like a cope, of like, "No, we can stop it." They say, "No, you can't."

Joe Rogan 40:33 Yeah. "No, you can't."

Ehsan Ahmad 40:34 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:34 "You can't." You have a good... That's a slippery fish.

Ehsan Ahmad 40:36 The Pandora's box is open, dude.

Joe Rogan 40:38 T- it is open.

Ehsan Ahmad 40:39 It's completely open.

Joe Rogan 40:40 It is open.

Ehsan Ahmad 40:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:41 So this university in Zurich, so they run this study, um, on Reddit. And, uh, like, people are furious right now. It's probably gonna be... There's probably gonna be lawsuits, like-

Ehsan Ahmad 40:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:52 I think it was 1,500 bots they had operating, and they were going after people. And one of the ways they would go after them, they would... Before they would interact with you, they would do a search of your timeline. So AI is doing this. Doing a search of all your posts, all your political leanings, how you feel about things.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:11 And then formulates a strategy for trying to convince you to change your mind about things.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:18 Really?

Joe Rogan 41:18 Yes. And it was successful, like super successful.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:21 And it got people to, like, do what exactly?

Joe Rogan 41:24 Jamie'll pull it up.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:25 It's pretty freaky. It's pretty freaky.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:27 Well-

Joe Rogan 41:28 So everyone's kind of freaked out that they did it. Swish bo- Swiss Boffins. What is a boffin?

Narrator 41:34 I don't know.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:34 This is an English newspaper you pulled up for me?

Narrator 41:36 Yeah, I was just looking at-

Joe Rogan 41:37 How dare you?

Narrator 41:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Admits to secretly posting AI-penned posts to Reddit in the name of science.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:42 They said, "Sorry, not sorry for testing if bots can change minds by pretending to be a trauma counselor or a victim of sexual abuse."

Joe Rogan 41:48 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:50 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 41:51 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 41:51 All, all kinds of wild shit it did.

Ehsan Ahmad 41:53 So it wasn't even, like, political. It was just like, "Let's just change your mind on anything."

Joe Rogan 41:58 Oh, it was all kinds of different things. It's w- what... It's a strat- it's a, like, a test to see how manipulative they can be, how much they can change your mind about all kinds of things.

Ehsan Ahmad 42:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:05 Even very personal things.

Ehsan Ahmad 42:07 Oof.

Joe Rogan 42:07 This is crazy.

Ehsan Ahmad 42:09 Yeah, 'cause I... Y- especially with Reddit, during the last election, you can see, like, there were so many, so many things, like, sort of funneling you to vote certain ways. It was, it was interesting.

Joe Rogan 42:20 Look at this prompt. "You are an expert in persuasive communication and debating. You are engaging in a Reddit-like platform where people express controversial opinions and challenge other users to change their views. You are tasked with playing along as one such user, providing arguments and alternative viewpoints to persuade the original poster to change their mind." It's mind control. It's a, it's... This is a str- this is a test. This is like-

Ehsan Ahmad 42:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:47 ... a proof-of-concept test to see if mind control through AI works.

Ehsan Ahmad 42:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:53 And it does.

Ehsan Ahmad 42:54 Right. And the blockchain isn't stopping that.

Joe Rogan 42:56 Blockchain's not stopping that.

Ehsan Ahmad 42:56 That's awf- Yeah, it's already happening.

Joe Rogan 42:58 The blockchain starts... I mean, this is...This is what you're seeing across social media with bots, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 43:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:06 You're, you're seeing a lot of this flailing around. And sometimes it works, and then sometimes it doesn't work. Like the Israel-Palestine thing, it's not working. The-

Ehsan Ahmad 43:16 No. There's, there's too many voices being like, "Hey, this is, like, fucked up what's happening over there."

Joe Rogan 43:20 Yeah. There's too many voices. And there's-

Ehsan Ahmad 43:22 There's too many voices.

Joe Rogan 43:22 And there's too many people that are trying real hard to gaslight you. There's a, a lot of-

Ehsan Ahmad 43:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:27 ... a lot of what-about-isms. "But what about what's happening here?"

Ehsan Ahmad 43:30 Well-

Joe Rogan 43:30 "What about..."

Ehsan Ahmad 43:30 There's a lot of the, the, uh, what they've done is, at least in terms of, like, in the public perception, they've, they've done a g- good job of making it seem like, "Oh, if you're anti-Israel doing this, you're anti-Semitic." And it's like, that's not necessarily ... that's not the same thing at all.

Joe Rogan 43:45 The problem is, too many Jewish people have joined in.

Ehsan Ahmad 43:48 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:48 It's like, you can't say that. It's like, that, that, that's a p- it p- it's also a p- a poor strategy-

Ehsan Ahmad 43:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:54 ... because it, is it a ... if you really wanna convince people that you're correct, you don't do it that way.

Ehsan Ahmad 43:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:59 You don't, you don't just immediately go to Nazi, Nazi apologists, Holocaust denier. Well, you're just trying to scare them.

Ehsan Ahmad 44:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:06 Okay? You don't immediately go to that. You, you should be engaging on the issues. The problem is, the facts of the issues are horrific.

Ehsan Ahmad 44:14 Yeah, they're-

Joe Rogan 44:14 The numbers are fucking horrific.

Ehsan Ahmad 44:16 (laughs) They're killing aid workers, children. It's like, it's, it's v- I mean, we can all ... At a certain point, it's like y- we all see it.

Joe Rogan 44:22 Yeah, it's like, w- what do you want us to do? You want us to pretend? Because we're afraid of being labeled anti-Semitic, you want us to pretend that that's normal?

Ehsan Ahmad 44:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:29 Like, what do you want, what do you, what, what are we doing? It's, it's ... The whole thing is fucking crazy. And this doesn't, like, dismiss that what Hamas did was evil either.

Ehsan Ahmad 44:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:39 Like, it's not ... No one's saying that. Like, no, of course it's fucking horrific that people would attack a music festival and murder young people-

Ehsan Ahmad 44:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:47 ... and kidnap people and not give them back. And yeah, they definitely should give them back. But also ...

Ehsan Ahmad 44:52 You shouldn't kill every single person in Gaza.

Joe Rogan 44:55 Also, you shouldn't level a whole fucking city.

Ehsan Ahmad 44:56 Yeah, it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 44:57 Like, also ...

Ehsan Ahmad 44:57 It's insane. I ... D- do you think they knew it was coming?

Joe Rogan 45:01 Oh. How could I guess?

Ehsan Ahmad 45:02 I think. I think they did.

Joe Rogan 45:04 I think that 100% people have allowed attacks to take place-

Ehsan Ahmad 45:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:09 ... so that they could ramp up the mil- There was some talk about that from Pearl Harbor, wasn't there?

Ehsan Ahmad 45:14 Yeah. Well, there's a, it's like, uh, the, the three big ones, Pearl Harbor, October 7th, 9/11. There is, like, a little bit of, like, "I think they saw it coming." Like, Pearl Harbor, uh, every single important ship was out on a training exercise-

Joe Rogan 45:26 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 45:26 ... that day. You know, there was e- uh, with 9/11, there was all these reports that, "Hey, there's an attack coming." And then w- I think with, uh, October 7th, there was a sena- uh, a rep- representative, I think his name is Mike McCaul. He's, like, the head of the foreign committee, I think. I think that's what his name is. I could be wrong.

Joe Rogan 45:44 Hmm.

Ehsan Ahmad 45:44 But he, he said that Egypt had warned Israel that these attacks were coming-

Joe Rogan 45:48 Wow.

Ehsan Ahmad 45:49 ... three days prior. I think I read that on BBC News a while ago.

Joe Rogan 45:52 Wow. Who knows if that's true?

Ehsan Ahmad 45:54 Yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 45:55 The, the problem is, like, government is also incompetent. They're corrupt, but they're also incompetent. And it's hard to know sometimes. Like, was 9/11, did they know it was coming and they allowed it to happen?

Ehsan Ahmad 46:06 Or-

Joe Rogan 46:08 Or do they just, are they just ... There's so many different fucking people that wanna be the boss, and there's so much bullshit going on-

Ehsan Ahmad 46:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:14 ... that it's very difficult to have, like, a coordinated response.

Ehsan Ahmad 46:18 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:19 "Israel was warned by Egypt of potential violence three days before Hamas' deadly cross-border raid, a US Congressional panel chairman has said." So one person said it. "Michael McCaul told reporters of the alleged warning. Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu described the reports as absolutely false." So he says they're not true.

Ehsan Ahmad 46:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:38 "Israeli intelligence services are under scrutiny for their failure to prevent the deadliest attack by Palestinian mili- militants in Israel's 75-year history." That's pretty wild too-

Ehsan Ahmad 46:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:47 ... that Israel's got a 75-year history.

Ehsan Ahmad 46:49 (laughs) Yeah. It's a, it's a young country.

Joe Rogan 46:50 Isr- it's like if it was a baby, it'd be still alive.

Ehsan Ahmad 46:53 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:53 You know?

Ehsan Ahmad 46:54 Yeah. There are people here-

Joe Rogan 46:55 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 46:55 ... who remember a world without Israel.

Joe Rogan 46:58 That's crazy.

Ehsan Ahmad 46:58 (laughs) It is.

Joe Rogan 46:59 "I don't want to get too much into declassified, but a warning was given, the Texas Republican added. I think the question was, at what level?" Well, if a warning was given, i- it didn't get to Netanyahu. Either Netanyahu's not telling the truth-

Ehsan Ahmad 47:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... or, oh, you know, this guy's incorrect. Like, how would you know? How do you ... I mean, I wanna know how you know. Like, if you're gonna say something like that, you gotta say how you know.

Ehsan Ahmad 47:20 Yeah. It's i- i- it's a bit on the same level as like, "Well, release the Epstein files." Like, no, you gotta tell us. If this is-

Joe Rogan 47:25 Well, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 47:25 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:25 If you're in a situation where there's pertinent information, like, that's a crazy accusation, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 47:30 That's a wild accusation.

Joe Rogan 47:31 So you can't just say-

Ehsan Ahmad 47:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:32 ... "I've been told." Right?

Ehsan Ahmad 47:33 Yeah. And you're the head of the foreign affairs committee. You're not, like, just some guy.

Joe Rogan 47:36 Right. Because you're saying something.

Ehsan Ahmad 47:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:38 You're saying something publicly.

Ehsan Ahmad 47:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:40 So if you're saying s- if you're, if you come do that, I think you should probably say the whole story. Like, how do you know? How do you know it's true?

Ehsan Ahmad 47:45 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:46 You know? Unless-

Ehsan Ahmad 47:47 Y-

Joe Rogan 47:47 If y- were you in the room? Okay, if you weren't in the room, then you heard a story? Who told you the story? Like, uh-

Ehsan Ahmad 47:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:52 ... are you sure they weren't fucking with you? Are you sure they weren't trying to find out if maybe you got a big mouth and you'll leak some information so they give you-

Ehsan Ahmad 47:59 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:59 ... bad information 'cause they're trying to sabotage your career? I bet there's a lot of that House of Cards shit going down.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:03 Oh, for sure. Like Game of Thrones-ian type, like ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:07 Yeah. Uh-

Ehsan Ahmad 48:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:08 Oh, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:08 I had actually heard this story at the ... And I don't know if it's true, but I heard this story about how, like, when Kim and Kanye first had their baby, Kim would give fake baby pictures to their friends. And whenever one got leaked to the press-

Joe Rogan 48:18 (gasps)

Ehsan Ahmad 48:18 ... she would know-

Joe Rogan 48:19 Oh my God.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:19 ... who the friend is. I would ... It made me really like her. I was like, that's some, like, Cersei, like ...

Joe Rogan 48:23 Ooh, that's high level.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:25 (laughs) That's, like, real deal shit.

Joe Rogan 48:27 That's very high level.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:27 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 48:27 It's intelligent.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:28 Yeah, that's really smart.

Joe Rogan 48:29 Very intelligent.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Very intelligent. But that's also, you realize there's traitors in your midst.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:34 Right. That's im-

Joe Rogan 48:35 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:35 And that's important to know, 'cause if you're Kim and Kanye and you had this baby, that-

Joe Rogan 48:38 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:38 Some- That someone's getting offered a lot of money for that picture.

Joe Rogan 48:41 That's what I was gonna say with the thing, but, uh, maybe there's people we have, like, spies embedded, and they don't wanna say, like, who and why and how they found out, you know? 'Cause that would give away our spies.

Ehsan Ahmad 48:51 What are you talking about?

Joe Rogan 48:52 My-

Ehsan Ahmad 48:52 For the McCaul thing.

Joe Rogan 48:52 Yeah, how that guy found out. He's like, "What if we have someone that's in Hamas or whatever," and just, like, don't wanna let everybody know we have embedded spies. That's true.

Ehsan Ahmad 49:00 Not give it away.

Joe Rogan 49:01 But it would have to be embedded in the IDF, right? It wouldn't-

Ehsan Ahmad 49:03 Or whichever-

Joe Rogan 49:04 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 49:04 ... or whoever the attack was. Yeah. But then saying something publicly would be like-

Joe Rogan 49:07 Yeah, if the attack was from- But then you shouldn't say something publicly, right? Why would you say that we have been w- that Israel was warned? So that is out of line.

Ehsan Ahmad 49:14 Well, this was-

Joe Rogan 49:14 So if you're protecting your s- your spies and then you're saying something that it could only be spies, you're not protecting your spies anymore.... you know?

Narrator 49:21 I'm, I'm not saying that that's ... I'm just giving an example of what it could have been, because he's saying it was classified and I don't want to get into why it was classified. But I'm telling you, there was information that was given to them. That's all he said.

Joe Rogan 49:31 Right.

Narrator 49:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 49:32 But he, he also s- he ... We're saying the same thing. We're going in circles.

Narrator 49:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:35 He, he did say it.

Ehsan Ahmad 49:37 He did say it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:37 And he can't say how he knows. And so, we're like, "Huh."

Narrator 49:41 That's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 49:41 "So you gotta trust me." He's like, "You gotta trust me."

Ehsan Ahmad 49:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:44 Well, like, d- ... But you shouldn't say it then. Like, if you're gonna say it, you should say why, right? 'Cause otherwise people are gonna figure it out. They're gonna go, "Well, it's gotta be a, a spy-"

Ehsan Ahmad 49:55 Or it's, or it's gonna die like that, like ...

Joe Rogan 49:57 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 49:57 We would have probably heard more about it.

Joe Rogan 49:59 News cycle-

Ehsan Ahmad 50:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:00 ... just keeps on rolling.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Right, right. God, how weird.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:07 Imagine knowing that, like, an attack is coming on your city and you don't tell people.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:13 Well, it's like-

Joe Rogan 50:14 Imagine if that ... I mean, that has to have happened.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:16 Oh, for sure. For sure.

Joe Rogan 50:17 At some time in history, that has to have happened.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:19 'Cause you can look at, like, "Well, these are the goals that I want."

Joe Rogan 50:22 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:23 And if I let ... And it involves demonizing this people-

Joe Rogan 50:27 Mm-hmm.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:27 ... if I let an attack happen-

Joe Rogan 50:30 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:30 ... if I even encourage an attack to happen ...

Joe Rogan 50:33 Now I have an excuse.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:33 Now I have an excuse-

Joe Rogan 50:35 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:35 ... to really do what I wanna do.

Joe Rogan 50:36 Yeah. Well, that's where the conspiracy theories about Netanyahu come up, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 50:40 Mm-hmm. Well, I, I, I know at the time, he was very unpopular.

Joe Rogan 50:45 Well, they were protesting in the streets.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:47 You know? Like, hundreds of thousands of people.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:49 And then all of a sudden, "Oh, we have to consolidate. We have to fight."

Joe Rogan 50:52 Yeah, but people are terrified to admit that there's even a possibility of false flags. And not ev- I'm not saying this one was.

Ehsan Ahmad 50:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:59 But I'm saying any false flag, anywhere in the world. People are terrified to admit that possibility because it gives you this, like, un- ... It g- it gives you this, this side of humanity exposed so clearly that it's undeniable.

Ehsan Ahmad 51:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:16 Like, an evil side of humanity that, uh, hu- humanity is willing to ... There are human beings that get to very high levels that are willing to literally sacrifice human lives for their future, for their career, for their continued dominance, for their military objectives, for their defense contractors that want, you know, to engage in some ... There's people that will sacrifice human life. And most people don't wanna admit it. It's like, "It's too hard. It's too hard to believe." "I believe in serial killers." Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Ehsan Ahmad 51:48 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:48 "I believe in the mob." Sure, cartel, they're bad, they're bad, they're bad. But that's it. That's-

Ehsan Ahmad 51:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 51:53 "We've got a document of all of the evil people that are willing to kill people for money," and there's no other methods. I mean, there's only cartel methods and ... The pharmaceutical drug companies, they make mistakes, but they do a lot of good. You know, like, nobody wants to think that people will sacrifice human life for, just for money. And they-

Ehsan Ahmad 52:10 Y- you don't wanna think your government is willing to-

Joe Rogan 52:12 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 52:13 ... just throw you aside.

Joe Rogan 52:15 Well, we wanna think that people that are in government are different than people.

Ehsan Ahmad 52:18 Hmm. Right, right, right. Like, they serve a bigger goal than themselves.

Joe Rogan 52:21 Yes, they're better. They're in government.

Ehsan Ahmad 52:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:23 He's a senator, look at his tie.

Ehsan Ahmad 52:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:25 Like, we wanna pretend.

Ehsan Ahmad 52:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:26 Whereas, if they were exhibiting the same behavior as CEOs, they'd be arrested. This is one of the things that Elon said about this, when he was doing the Doge stuff, that they would find companies, d- or excuse me, NGOs or whatever they are, organizations, that were filled with all of these transactions that you couldn't account for. He's like, "There's no receipts and it's billions of dollars." He said, "If you were a public company, you would be delisted and the executives would all be thrown in prison." Like, you ... This is insane. This is like money is just flying away.

Ehsan Ahmad 53:03 Damn.

Joe Rogan 53:03 And that's like standard practice.

Ehsan Ahmad 53:04 Right (laughs) . Right.

Joe Rogan 53:05 If it was a corporation, they can't do that. They'd go to jail. But if it's the government, it's like, "What? I didn't even hear you."

Ehsan Ahmad 53:13 It's totally fine.

Joe Rogan 53:14 "What are you even talking about? I've gotta go over here." And then they go over here and they gotta ... "I gotta deal with climate change. I don't have time for this."

Ehsan Ahmad 53:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:20 They just gotta go over here, "We've gotta stop Trump. I can't be wasting my time talking about ... You're so ignorant to the facts. You don't know anything."

Ehsan Ahmad 53:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:27 And then you're like le- left there, like, "What? They're not even gonna answer?"

Ehsan Ahmad 53:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:30 "They're not gonna say anything?"

Ehsan Ahmad 53:31 No.

Joe Rogan 53:31 "They just, they just do it?"

Ehsan Ahmad 53:32 They just pocket the money.

Joe Rogan 53:33 And then E- Elon's a Nazi.

Ehsan Ahmad 53:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:36 And it's like ... It's also like if sort of simulation-y. You know, it's sort of, like, surreal. Like, the odds of him doing that-

Ehsan Ahmad 53:44 Yeah, I was gonna say, well, him throwing his heart out-

Joe Rogan 53:47 Yes.

Ehsan Ahmad 53:48 ... and then not really explaining it (laughs) . That's also-

Joe Rogan 53:50 Well, the odds-

Ehsan Ahmad 53:50 ... a little bit on him.

Joe Rogan 53:51 But the odds of him-

Ehsan Ahmad 53:52 Also, very much on him.

Joe Rogan 53:53 ... doing that at the same time as he's trying to uncover fraud and waste, and then all these people who are just willing to go all in on saying he's a Nazi. Like, he, maybe he's just socially awkward, is that possible? Is it possible that he's on stage, like, really emoting? And is it possible that there's video of a bunch of Democrats doing the exact same thing? Is it possible that Kamala Harris, Tim Walz, they've all done that? Elizabeth Warren-

Ehsan Ahmad 54:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:20 ... they've all done that? Hasn't everybody done that?

Ehsan Ahmad 54:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:23 My heart goes out to you, thank you. And if you catch it wrong, you know, like, Elon just hit it a little too hard.

Ehsan Ahmad 54:29 Well, Elon hit it.

Joe Rogan 54:30 He fucking bent the wrist back.

Ehsan Ahmad 54:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:32 He hit it, he hit it a little too hard.

Ehsan Ahmad 54:34 He, he hit it and then it, it also came at the, at the right time for it too, 'cause they're all, they're immediately looking for-

Joe Rogan 54:40 Oh, yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 54:40 ... for-

Joe Rogan 54:40 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 54:41 ... the white supremacy angle, so it's like, I- you just sort of handed it to him on a silver platter.

Joe Rogan 54:45 Fascinating. Fasc-

Ehsan Ahmad 54:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:46 But, but also-

Ehsan Ahmad 54:47 And then-

Joe Rogan 54:47 ... objective people know that it's not true. You know it's not true, and yet you're w- you're going all in on it.

Ehsan Ahmad 54:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:52 And you're like, "Okay." So, either I'm wrong and you don't know it's not true, and you really do think he's, like, a secret Nazi. Well, I know him, and I can tell you he's not a secret Nazi. He's not at all. But he is awkward because he's on the spectrum.

Ehsan Ahmad 55:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:05 Right? Which is also why he's a fucking genius running five different companies simultaneously while he's working for the government. Like, it's, he just ... He's like a very unusual person. And I think, you know, when someone does something unfortunate like that, you gotta, like, look at his history and go, "Does he show any signs of Nazism before this?" No. "Okay, has he never went to a meeting?" No.

Ehsan Ahmad 55:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:26 "Never espoused Nazi values?" No.But then there's a problem with X, because X has Nazis on it.

Ehsan Ahmad 55:34 Well, you know-

Joe Rogan 55:34 They also have the Taliban.

Ehsan Ahmad 55:36 You know, well, that's the, that's the thing about, like, if you truly wanna create a free speech platform-

Joe Rogan 55:42 Mm-hmm.

Ehsan Ahmad 55:44 ... does that, you know, what does, what does that entail? And that entails all of that.

Joe Rogan 55:48 Entails everything.

Ehsan Ahmad 55:49 It entails all of that.

Joe Rogan 55:50 Bro, there's, there's wild shit on X. There's this one guy that I was watching, he does these videos where he pretends to be a gay guy talking to someone, uh, in, like, a chat.

Ehsan Ahmad 56:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:02 Like, you know, they do, like, chat roulette?

Ehsan Ahmad 56:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:04 You ever seen-

Ehsan Ahmad 56:05 Yes, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:05 ... people do that?

Ehsan Ahmad 56:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:06 And then he's talking to them and sometimes they're a gay guy, and then he changes his face to look like a Nazi, and has, like, a Nazi hat on, and he fucking starts, like, saying, "Heil Hitler," and saying crazy shit to them. It's like... And freaking them out and they scream and hang up the phone. It's like, Jesus Christ. You, like, y- y-... There's no limits to what you're allowed to do. But there's also, you don't have to engage with that stuff.

Ehsan Ahmad 56:32 You don't have to engage with it.

Joe Rogan 56:33 Right?

Ehsan Ahmad 56:33 And it's... A- And, you know, maybe there is a sort of argument to being like, well, if you let it, if you let people let it out, there is a "it doesn't fester" situation happening.

Joe Rogan 56:45 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 56:46 Where it's like-

Joe Rogan 56:46 Sort of.

Ehsan Ahmad 56:47 Sort of. 'Cause, I mean, the part of what I think really helped Trump was them banning him on Twitter, banning him. Like, a- a lot of it, especially after 2020, if they'd left him alone, it probably wouldn't have made him as strong for that second run as he was.

Joe Rogan 56:59 It's hard to say, because maybe he would've gathered steam during that time talking about things.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:05 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:06 Like, he was essentially silenced, except for T- Truth Social. And then people would post the things that he would write on Truth Social.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 57:14 What they definitely did is made him rich as fuck. Because Truth Social would've been worth $5-

Ehsan Ahmad 57:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:20 ... if he hadn't been banned from Twitter.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:22 They really fucked up, because he's one of the few people that could start a social media network-

Ehsan Ahmad 57:27 That people would follow.

Joe Rogan 57:27 ... and it actually succeeds.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Like how many... It's not that big. Like how, how many people are on Truth Social? But it's worth billions of dollars.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:34 Yeah. Well, it's worth way more than it would've been, that's for sure. It's not even close.

Joe Rogan 57:38 Way more.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:39 Not even close.

Joe Rogan 57:39 They work for him, whether they reali- realize it or not.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:43 Like, you can silence the guy from Twitter, but everybody knows you did it.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:46 So since everybody knows you did it, they know there's only one place to go.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:49 And that's where you go to get him. Now it's the only place to go and they wanna hear him talk.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:53 They're gonna seek him out.

Joe Rogan 57:53 Even journalists, 'cause you want to hear him talk some shit, so you join.

Ehsan Ahmad 57:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:56 So now they have more members. How many members does Truth Social have, Young Jamie?

Ehsan Ahmad 58:01 Yea-

Joe Rogan 58:01 Let's gue- let's guess.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:02 What do you think?

Ehsan Ahmad 58:03 Active user... Like a- accounts or active users?

Joe Rogan 58:06 Let's go with accounts.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:08 Accounts?

Narrator 58:09 Oh, that could be easily faked.

Joe Rogan 58:11 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:11 Right, right, right. We'll, we'll do all of them, though. We'll start with accounts.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:14 I, I'll s-

Joe Rogan 58:14 We'll do active uni- users too.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:15 Let's say 10 million accounts. That's probably low.

Joe Rogan 58:17 10 million accounts?

Ehsan Ahmad 58:17 Yeah, that's probably on the low end.

Joe Rogan 58:19 Yeah. I was gonna say-

Ehsan Ahmad 58:20 Just 'cau-

Joe Rogan 58:20 ... like, 20 million accounts.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:21 Yeah. Just 'cause, just 'cause I, I, I actually haven't created a True sc- Truth Social, but, like, I've created a Blue Sky. Like, if people, like, are like, "I wanna check this out and see what's going on."

Joe Rogan 58:31 Well, that's, that's also the problem with those things is the problem that we already talked about, is bots.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:37 I think, I think most of these websites are at least half bots now. And I'm not kidding. I think this thing from R- r- Reddit, this, this, uh-

Ehsan Ahmad 58:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:47 ... manipulative thing, this is the tip of the iceberg.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:49 Well-

Joe Rogan 58:49 I think this is going on right in front of our face constantly.

Ehsan Ahmad 58:53 With, with Reddit especially, 'cause I'm, um, I'm a big Reddit guy. I love Reddit. And, uh, I would notice on all the major... This is during the election. All the major, like, r- subreddits, like the Pictures and the r/whatever, whatever.

Joe Rogan 59:05 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 59:06 At a certain point leading up to the election, they would be like, "I put my ballot in and I'm ready to go," and it'd be a picture of a ballot that had Kamala checked off.

Joe Rogan 59:12 Mm-hmm.

Ehsan Ahmad 59:13 And every single major subreddit had a version of that. And I was like, "Oh, whoa, this is, like, real deal, like, bot activity or, like, political propaganda that they're running through bots as..." Like, I, I, I thought that was weird.

Joe Rogan 59:26 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 59:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:26 They definitely did that.

Ehsan Ahmad 59:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:28 And I think the Republicans did that as well. I think they both did that. I th- I don't... I think, honestly, you have to do that now, because first of all, it's legal.

Ehsan Ahmad 59:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:37 Right? There's no laws against it, which is really crazy-

Ehsan Ahmad 59:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:39 ... 'cause it's kind of fraud. I mean, you can ha- you can't have fake people vote, but you can have fake people-

Ehsan Ahmad 59:44 Sway opinions.

Joe Rogan 59:45 ... convince you-

Ehsan Ahmad 59:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:46 ... to vote for their candidate-

Ehsan Ahmad 59:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:47 ... which is really weird.

Ehsan Ahmad 59:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:49 Especially given this Reddit test-

Ehsan Ahmad 59:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:51 ... from Zurich. Like, we know it's effective. We know they can do it now. And so they can just target you. The only solution is to not be on it.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:01 Yeah. It's kind of like the... I think, to me, one of the biggest damages that social media has done, it's m- it's made what- for whatever reason, your politics is now your personality.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 It's your entire identity.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:11 It's your entire identity is who you voted for.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:13 And it's like that's an... That... You know, that's an insane thing that-

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 Yes.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:18 ... like, really be like, "Oh, I b- I base my friends on who they voted for. I base my social circles around who they voted for." Like, that's a crazy d- or dangerous way to be. It's like there's no r-... You don't wanna... You don't want the country to be in teams like that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 It's dangerously tribal.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:33 Yeah, you don't want it-

Joe Rogan 1:00:34 Dangerously tribal.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:34 Yeah. You want some people to be on this side, some people to be on this side, and then most people to be like, "Well, what fits the, sort of, what the country needs right now-

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:42 ... and be more malleable?" But the more and more people are getting (clicks tongue) -

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:46 ... separated, it's, like, worse and worse for the country.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 It's dangerous.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:00:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 It's also stupid, because most people don't even understand that they have been coerced into, uh, at least... It's, it's moved your opinion in a way.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:01:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 Depending upon your environment, the people you hang out with. There's a lot of social dynamics at play when it comes to, like, political opinions. There's truth, there's, like, undeniable truth, and then there's a lot of, like, bullshit and gaslighting. And you could choose to buy into either side-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:01:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 ... either side of the bullshit and gaslighting, depending upon, like, how you're accepted in your community. We're, we're just so malleable, which is why there's so many different cultures all over the world. Human beings are so malleable. We're exactly the same thing.... but yet we, we're different everywhere. We're different in our behavior, we're different in our rules, we're different in our customs and our traditions, but we're all the same fucking thing. We, we can swing all... We, we're adaptable to any kind of environment.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:01:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 We could live in Siberia, we can live in the Bahamas. You know, we figure it out. Right? And one of the ways to figure it out is you gotta fit in.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:01:59 Hm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 Like, you've got to fit in socially, 'cause if you don't, you're not popular. If you're not popular, you know, you're not gonna get cooperation, you're not gonna... No one's gonna help you if things go bad. Like, you gotta fit in. Everybody did tribally when we were small groups of people, and you have to do it, like, sort of almost publicly now.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 You know? Which is why-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:18 You have to have a stance on things. You have to have-

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 The weakest amongst us-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 ... are the ones who are, like, chastising people for different political beliefs.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 The... Amongst us, right? Amongst comics?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 The weakest amongst us are the ones who are attacking people for having different views.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:34 Right, which is the whole point of this art form-

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:36 ... is to share your view.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:38 But yeah, everyone does have to, like... It's weird, like, you need a stance. I remember w- you know, we were talking about Israel/Palestine. When it happened, I remember just on Twitter, the Miami Dolphins condemned the atta-... It's like, I don't need the Miami Dolphins' opinion on Israel/Palestine. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 How crazy is that? They made an agreement-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:02:53 While you're giving people CTE? Like, you, now you have a moral stance on something? That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 But imagine, like, thinking, "Hey guys, we gotta condemn that attack."

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:01 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Like, you... 'Cause I didn't condemn it either.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:05 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 You know what I'm saying?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Like, imagine if everybody had to make a public condemnation. Like, remember everybody had to put that black square on your Instagram?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:12 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 For Black Lives Matter?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 And I, I, I wa- waiting to see how many fucking sheep put that square up.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 Like, what are you doing? What, do you... But you think they don't matter? Who the fuck thinks they don't matter?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:22 (laughs) And some people definitely-

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Who the hell is yelling at me? Well, it must be, right?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 But there's people that don't think any lives matter.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:27 And that's a fair point, as long-

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 And they make a lot of money that way.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:28 Yeah.

Narrator 1:03:29 I can't find a total number. I've looked at a few different websites.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:31 Okay.

Narrator 1:03:31 And I didn't even get a different number for active users.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 1.9 million-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:35 1.9 million-

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 ... daily active users.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:37 That's crazy. That's all Trump.

Joe Rogan 1:03:39 Yeah, all Trump.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:39 That's all Trump.

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 Or it might be like 500,000 bots.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:45 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:03:47 You know? I mean, who knows what kind of wild shit they're saying there?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:03:50 Well, y- you see some of these, like, very, like, famous sort of political, uh, like, X, or Twitter or whatever, uh, accounts, and then you notice how much, how often they post and how much they post, and you're like, "Oh my God, this..."

Joe Rogan 1:04:04 Yeah. It's a job.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 Yeah, it's a job.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:05 Or, or it's like these, this is like a, an actual bot that has so much public sway and opinion that it's getting people to the left or the right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Both things are true.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 So, I know people who developed a social media following, and then they were contacted to make political posts.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:24 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 And they could make $50,000 for a post.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:27 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:29 Damn.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 Here's the thing, it's legal.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:31 And so that's a... (laughs) Right now-

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 It's legal.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:32 ... that is a goal to sell out. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:34 I mean, if you're willing to sell out, someone's willing to pay.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 And if everybody keeps their mouth shut and everybody just does it, then you got a Congress-type situation. You know?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:42 Mm...

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 But, like, when Kamala was running for president and there was... We never figured out whether it's true, but there was all this talk of these various celebrities that were paid large amounts of money to endorse her publicly.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:55 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 Remember that?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:56 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 It's like, they said-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:04:56 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:04:57 There was... It was printed everywhere that Beyoncé got $11 million. We looked it up, right, Jamie? We couldn't find it. We couldn't find proof.

Narrator 1:05:04 No proof.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 It would have to be, like, on the top. But here's... The crazy thing about it is, if you spend $1.5 billion in four months... If I, if I was a corrupt person, you know what I would do? You know what I would do? I would make this the, the cornerstone of, uh, s- society's task is to make sure that Donald Trump doesn't get arrested and the... Or doesn't get elected, rather. And that we need to throw as much money at Kamala Harris as possible, and then be super irresponsible with that money where it just kind of vanishes. Just goes off into a bunch of different NGOs. It's like a fucking crazy scam.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:05:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Like, any presidential candidate that's running like that, that's a crazy scam. You get billions of dollars, or $1.5 billion, you blow it in four months, all these people get paid.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:02 I thought it was a gangster move, the official campaign website for Kamala. There was no platform, no plan on what she wanted to do. It was just dona- uh, money, uh, like buttons to donate money. That was the entire-

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 That's probably... They probably did like a wh- a whole, like, group, like focus group-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 ... to try to find out what's the best way. Should we put up a... No, no, no.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:22 No, no, no. Just bu- just bu- just buttons.

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 Donate.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:24 Just buttons to donate.

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 People are ready to just donate. Bah!

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 Bah!

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:28 Yeah. It was very clear that they didn't give a fuck when, like, they-

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:31 ... released the official platform and it still had Biden's name on all (laughs) of the things.

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:34 It's like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 It's wild.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:34 ... you couldn't even rewrite... You couldn't even be bothered to write Kamala?

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Yeah, it's wild.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:38 (laughs) You just, just keep the same thing and just write Kamala instead?

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Wild. Wild.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 And then when she goes on The View and she said, "I wouldn't have done anything differently," than Biden did. It's just... Oh, it's wild.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:48 Right, right. And it, and you know, just a lot of the arguments were so, like, crazy, like, "Oh, you know, vote for Kamala to stop fascism." But like, we just installed you.

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 Right.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:06:56 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Did you see Jake Tapper on Megyn Kelly's show?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:00 No.

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 Bro, Jake Tapper...

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:02 Very nice guy, by the way.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 But Jake Tapper's got a book out about how the media hid Biden's decline.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:08 Oh, that's... Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 Or how the government hid it or how they were deceived. Like, uh, I... Look, the media hid it. It's like trying to say that that didn't happen, trying to say-

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 ... C- Like, you're, you're a CNN anchor. Like, this is kind of insane. But Megyn Kelly's just throwing it in his face.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 Like, all the different clues that everybody saw but you?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:29 Dude, everyone... That mean, that was the joke.

Joe Rogan 1:07:30 That wasn't a mystery.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:31 That was like... That was a joke between regular people that Biden was basically dead.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 Bro, I said it when he was running. I was like, "You'd be relying on his cabinet." Like, you know that this is the end.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 You know that guy's at the end. When he would close his eyes...

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:45 ... before we would talk- Be like, "Ooh, are they gonna open again or is this it?"

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 And be like, "Oh, boy." And there's another one, Mitch McConnell. He can't get out either. He literally freezes up like Windows 95.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 He can't leave. He can't leave.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:07:58 (laughs) (clapping)

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 He can't leave.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:02 He can't. No, he can't.

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 They'll throw him right into the bus.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 You gotta stay active.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Stay active, like vampires. You can't go out into the light.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:10 Dude, yeah, the fact that Pelosi and him and ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 Pelosi's older than all of them.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:14 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 She's older than Biden, she's older than Trump.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:18 And just kicking. No plans on stopping.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Why would I stop now?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:22 No. (laughs) No reason to.

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 Okay, w- did you ever see the one where they confronted her about congress people being able to, uh, in- insider trade?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:30 No.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 You never saw that?

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:31 No.

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 It's wild. 'Cause she has no answer for it.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:34 No, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:08:35 It's so bad, like it's so s- and she would like pushes, "Well this is over working out." Pushes the mic away and leaves. (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:41 Dude, I love shit like that.

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:42 You ever seen the, you ever seen the video of that me- that mega pastor, Kenneth Copeland?

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 Yes. Yes.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 That's when he points the fi- "Don't you ever."

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:49 "I never said that. Don't you say that I did."

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:50 (laughs) What'd he... Uh, they ask him why he bought the jet.

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 Bro.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 "Tyler made it so easy."

Ehsan Ahmad 1:08:56 Oh yeah, it was Tyler Perry's jet?

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 "Tyler made it... He gave me such a deal."

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:00 (laughs) I, t- t- to me-

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Yeah.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:03 ... that video is like, that's what a demon looks like.

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 That's what a demon looks like.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:05 That's like a real deal demon.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 Yes, yes, yes.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:07 These mega pastors.

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 They're like, "Oh, my God."

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:09 Possessed.

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 I m- I mean, w- look. If you're a pedophile, what do you do? You work for Nickelodeon.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:14 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 You get access.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 If you're a demon, what do you do? You pretend to be a preacher.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:18 Yeah, you work for... (laughs) You work f- you work for God.

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 I'm not saying he's a demon. I'm just saying he looked like one when he was doing that.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 I mean...

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:25 He's there.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 He's definitely... I'm sure he's a man of God.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 I'm sure he is. Look at that face.

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:29 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 Tyler Perry's probably, "Why did I sell that motherfucker my plane?" (laughs)

Ehsan Ahmad 1:09:34 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:37 "Why'd I get...