Joe Rogan Experience #2332 - Oz Pearlman

Oz Pearlman 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music)

Joe Rogan 0:13 Are we up? Are we?

Oz Pearlman 0:15 Surreal.

Joe Rogan 0:16 Dude, you've only been here for 20 minutes, you already freaked me out.

Oz Pearlman 0:19 (laughs) Joe, Joe's freaked out.

Joe Rogan 0:21 (laughs) And I'm freaked out by the fact that you're the first guy that's ever come here that ran a marathon-

Oz Pearlman 0:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:26 ... before you got here.

Oz Pearlman 0:27 You know, wanted to clear my mind.

Joe Rogan 0:29 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 0:29 It's a big day.

Joe Rogan 0:30 How long did it take you to run it?

Oz Pearlman 0:32 You gotta check online, I don't know, I think it was, like, three hours 25 minutes, 3:30, something like that.

Joe Rogan 0:36 Wow, that's a good time for a-

Oz Pearlman 0:38 Went kind of southeast.

Joe Rogan 0:40 ... casual-

Oz Pearlman 0:40 Thunderstorming in Austin, Texas, and then, uh, looped around, went back, got some work done. I always do phone calls while I'm running.

Joe Rogan 0:46 How often do you run? Twen- you said you ran 27 miles this morning?

Oz Pearlman 0:49 I think so. I, I don't know. I just, I, I turned around, I got it done, I need to get ready for this shower, but yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:54 Is that a normal thing for you to do?

Oz Pearlman 0:56 Very normal.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Wow.

Oz Pearlman 0:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:58 That's crazy.

Oz Pearlman 0:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00 That's a lot of distance, man.

Oz Pearlman 1:02 You know, I, there was, like, a sweet spot pre-having as many kids and more family constraints and, and work and now life is busy, but where I do 20 miles every day.

Joe Rogan 1:10 Br- that's crazy.

Oz Pearlman 1:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Like, what's the longest you've run? You do, I know you do-

Oz Pearlman 1:13 153 miles.

Joe Rogan 1:14 Wow. How lo- how long did it take you to do that?

Oz Pearlman 1:16 Ugh. 33 hours. Spartathlon in Greece. Epic. Epic.

Joe Rogan 1:20 It's in Greece?

Oz Pearlman 1:21 Oh, it's crazy, man. You run from Athens to Sparta. This race is amazing. You ever see the movie 300 with Gerard Butler?

Joe Rogan 1:27 Sure.

Oz Pearlman 1:28 So that's the story. Uh, a couple of crazy dudes in the '80s decided that they're gonna recreate where he ran, Pheidippides, to deliver the message. 'Cause in that movie, you remember, 300 Spartans defended against the Persian masses, and they frame it as the difference between us having civilization and not. Had those 300 guys not died while they assembled an army and he delivered that message to King Leonidas... So when you finish this race, if you finish, it's one of the hardest races in the world. Like, there's bad water. You know Goggins.

Joe Rogan 1:57 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 1:57 Mutual buddy of ours. But, uh, there's races they say are the hardest, this one kicked my butt. First year I wasn't-

Joe Rogan 2:02 Is it because of the elevation? What is it?

Oz Pearlman 2:04 It's 'cause Europe does not believe in ice, so there's nothing cold for the first 50 miles.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Oh.

Oz Pearlman 2:10 You're hot and then the, the cutoffs are much stricter. So at 50 miles you have to be done, you gotta fact check this, but nine or 10 hours. So you have to finish 153 miles in under 36 hours. You need to be running at all times.

Joe Rogan 2:23 Oh, wow.

Oz Pearlman 2:23 You can't walk for two hours and start throwing up, which I, I was puking for eight hours straight the first time I did it. Still, excuses, this is me just bitching, I should've finished that year. I wasn't mentally tough. But 100%, that year, I just didn't have it mentally, and the next year I came back ready to die. I was like, "I'm gonna finish this race."

Joe Rogan 2:40 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 2:41 Yeah. There was a guy in the middle of the night, I won't kid you, who looked at me, and he says to me-

Joe Rogan 2:46 There it is.

Oz Pearlman 2:46 There it is. He goes to me with, like, crazy eyes, and I've already given up in my mind.

Joe Rogan 2:50 Right.

Oz Pearlman 2:50 You know, i- i- you know, you know, like, they call it DNFing, Did Not Finish-

Joe Rogan 2:54 Right.

Oz Pearlman 2:54 ... in ultras? I already wrote the speech of, like, "I'm gonna tell my friends I learned from this." You know, all that-

Joe Rogan 2:59 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 2:59 ... all that stuff of, like, I already gave up in my mind. And I saw this guy at mile, I don't know, 72, middle of the night, who looks at me with these crazy eyes. I'll never forget his looks, crazy eyes. Like that but 100 times more. And he goes, "You're gonna give up?" He goes, "If you can't run, you walk. You can't walk, you crawl. You never, ever..." And I was like, "Yo, man, this guy needs to chill out right now, 'cause I've already quit in my mind." But I channeled that guy when I came back the next year, and it was that. It was, "I'm going to the hospital, and you're not putting an IV, I'm gonna finish this race." And I came back the next year mentally like, "There's no way I'm not finishing."

Joe Rogan 3:33 Did you do anything different in preparation?

Oz Pearlman 3:36 Listen, it, it, that-

Joe Rogan 3:37 It's, is all mental?

Oz Pearlman 3:37 ... that game, it's all mental. Anyone who tells you otherwise, physical is meaningless at that point. Physical is meaningless in most points, to be honest. There were guys who I saw when I quit, it was, you know, 2:00 AM, who were slower than me, they were older than me. Every objective measure I should've beat them, but they mentally finished. The next morning, I got a, a night's sleep, woke up, watched them eat lunch, and saw them finish. I was like, I was crying. I, I couldn't believe the emotions of this guy finished who was two hours behind me when I quit. And I learned that day it's mental, 100%. The mindset is when you get there, you know if you're finishing at the start.

Joe Rogan 4:10 So did it haunt you that you didn't finish?

Oz Pearlman 4:12 Oh, haunted me every day.

Joe Rogan 4:14 Isn't that crazy?

Oz Pearlman 4:14 Haunted.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Like, what you did was really hard, but you didn't-

Oz Pearlman 4:17 No, that's bullshit hard. It was-

Joe Rogan 4:18 No.

Oz Pearlman 4:18 I should've finished.

Joe Rogan 4:19 How far did you get?

Oz Pearlman 4:21 Uh, I, I got halfway.

Joe Rogan 4:22 So that's pretty hard.

Oz Pearlman 4:23 No, I got as far-

Joe Rogan 4:24 75 miles?

Oz Pearlman 4:25 This, I quit when it was convenient, 'cause I got to an aid station, and I'm like, "Oh, you know, I got 30 minutes on the..." I already decided in my mind I was quitting.

Joe Rogan 4:32 Ah.

Oz Pearlman 4:32 But hold on. I gotta pause, 'cause I walked in here and I told you-

Joe Rogan 4:35 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 4:35 ... before we start, I have something for you.

Joe Rogan 4:37 Right.

Oz Pearlman 4:37 Right? People always say, "Can I read minds?" I can't read minds. I read people.

Joe Rogan 4:40 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 4:41 This envelope, if they can't see it and they're listening, your logo, sealed.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Right.

Oz Pearlman 4:45 This is your future.

Joe Rogan 4:47 My future?

Oz Pearlman 4:47 This is your future. I'm not psychic, I'm not supernatural, but I assure you, I want you to hold this from now until the end of the episode.

Joe Rogan 4:54 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 4:54 That's when we open it.

Joe Rogan 4:55 I don't even know if I wanna know my future.

Oz Pearlman 4:57 No, no, this is all good stuff. Live to 120.

Narrator 5:00 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 5:00 Joe's gonna be a two-term president. You know, you know, it's all... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:02 Shut the fuck up. That's not good. I don't want that job.

Oz Pearlman 5:05 Uh, you take it-

Joe Rogan 5:06 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 5:06 ... before we even start.

Joe Rogan 5:07 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 5:07 And at the end we open it.

Joe Rogan 5:08 Got it.

Oz Pearlman 5:08 So nobody skips this episode.

Joe Rogan 5:10 Got it.

Oz Pearlman 5:10 You buckle up for the ending.

Joe Rogan 5:11 I'm, I'm here. People will just fast-forward.

Oz Pearlman 5:14 They'll fast-forward? They'll miss-

Joe Rogan 5:15 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 5:15 ... all the good stuff in the middle.

Joe Rogan 5:16 The quitters. The quitters.

Oz Pearlman 5:17 The quitters.

Joe Rogan 5:17 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 5:17 The people who did not finish the spartathlon.

Joe Rogan 5:21 (laughs) That's s- so that's insanely impressive, though-

Oz Pearlman 5:24 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 5:24 ... that you can run that much. When did you start doing this?

Oz Pearlman 5:27 My sister ran a marathon. Shout-out to my older sister. And there's a little bit of sibling rivalry. She's eight years older, I have twin sisters, and do you remember when marathoning became, like, commonplace?

Joe Rogan 5:37 Before you say anything, I have to shout-out to my sister. She, 'cause she got upset that I didn't shout her out before-

Oz Pearlman 5:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:42 ... 'cause she ran Bert Kreischer's 5K. She's like, "I can't believe you didn't shout me out." Sorry, sweetie. Love you.

Oz Pearlman 5:48 Well played. Well played.

Joe Rogan 5:48 Love you. Yeah. She's the best.

Oz Pearlman 5:51 They all are, right? So, so my sister ran it, and, and everyone at a certain point, marathoning became, like, a thing. Do you remember when Oprah ran one, and then everyone's like, "I'm running a marathon."

Joe Rogan 5:59 I didn't pay attention.

Oz Pearlman 6:01 Yeah, but there was, like, a moment where the zeitgeist, everyone started running marathons. This was before that.

Joe Rogan 6:05 I believe you.

Oz Pearlman 6:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:06 But, uh, I wasn't tuned into that frequency.

Oz Pearlman 6:08 I was, I wa- when my sister said she was running 26.2 miles, if she had told me... This is not that she's not fit. She was, like, a collegiate D, D1 athlete swimmer. I'm like, "What are you..." If she had said, "I'm going to the moon," it would've been equal of, like, "What do you mean you're running a marathon?"

Joe Rogan 6:21 Hmm.

Oz Pearlman 6:21 And so when she did it, I immediately that day signed up for a marathon just to be like, "No, screw that. I'm not...I'm not not doing this.

Joe Rogan 6:28 Right.

Oz Pearlman 6:28 And I was working on Wall Street. I was kinda getting fat and lazy, happy hours. And I, I, I go, "This is all there is?" Like, I'm just gonna keep... I'm making money, don't get me wrong. I'm blessed, but I got, I gotta have something that fires me up. That's my instinct. And so I sign up for a marathon.

Joe Rogan 6:42 What year was this?

Oz Pearlman 6:44 2004.

Joe Rogan 6:45 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 6:46 And then I did one. Philly Marathon, you know, the Rocky, the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 6:50 Da, da, da.

Oz Pearlman 6:51 And at mile 23, I start, I stop and I, I'm like crying. I, again, this is a common theme. I've cried like twice in my life. My wife will ask, say, but I was wrecked. I was gonna quit. I see two dudes walking, because I'm going decently fast at this point. I've trained terribly. I see two dudes walking about 100 yards ahead of me, and I go, misery loves company. I'm gonna walk up and I'm gonna, I'm gonna catch them. But they're walking the same speed as me, so I decide, "Screw it. I'm gonna run to them." I run. I get about halfway there. Do you know what they do? They looked at each other and they started running.

Joe Rogan 7:22 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 7:22 And I literally screamed at them, like fuck you. Like I, and I got-

Joe Rogan 7:25 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 7:25 ... fired up, and I learned that day anger is a great like in- incentive. It's like something to fire you up. And I got so pissed off that my blood pressure, that I ran the rest of the race.

Joe Rogan 7:35 You know Goggins takes all of his haters' comments-

Oz Pearlman 7:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:38 ... and he records them, and then plays it back to him while he runs.

Oz Pearlman 7:42 Oh, I know David well.

Joe Rogan 7:43 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 7:43 I've known David going on like 15 years, man.

Joe Rogan 7:45 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 7:45 Before Goggins became Goggins. I've seen the whole come up. It's been-

Joe Rogan 7:49 How'd you meet him?

Oz Pearlman 7:49 So we trained for ultra-marathons together.

Joe Rogan 7:52 Oh.

Oz Pearlman 7:52 He used to live in New York City.

Joe Rogan 7:53 Oh, wow.

Oz Pearlman 7:54 And we'd go out there and, you know, he's shirtless. And this is before... Now, man, he can't go anywhere. He's just... It's like next level.

Joe Rogan 8:00 He still runs on the street?

Oz Pearlman 8:02 He runs, but man, he's, he's like that's such a fame that's, you know, we've talked about. But it's, he's, he's, I mean he's inspired countless millions.

Joe Rogan 8:09 Oh, for sure.

Oz Pearlman 8:10 But you see-

Joe Rogan 8:10 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 8:11 ... I don't know what your version is, but like if somebody sees me, I just get like a, "Oh, hey, love what you do." That's it.

Joe Rogan 8:16 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 8:16 You know, maybe a selfie. That's it.

Joe Rogan 8:18 Right.

Oz Pearlman 8:18 Occasionally some drunk asshole's like, "Read my mind right now."

Joe Rogan 8:21 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 8:21 And I'm like, "All right, all right, all right, buddy. I'll do it. I'll do it."

Joe Rogan 8:23 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 8:23 You know, I don't wanna leave somebody behind.

Joe Rogan 8:25 Ugh.

Oz Pearlman 8:25 But his is someone comes up and you have to, "You changed my life." Like, "I didn't kill myself or my brother."

Joe Rogan 8:30 Right.

Oz Pearlman 8:30 Like that's, that's a religious-level fervor.

Joe Rogan 8:32 Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, for sure.

Oz Pearlman 8:34 And much deserved.

Joe Rogan 8:34 I've been a- I've been around him when I've seen it happen.

Oz Pearlman 8:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:37 Yeah. Yeah, he runs on the street. He was running on the street in Vegas. My wife w- was in the car and she rolled down the window and yelled out, "Stay hard!"

Oz Pearlman 8:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:44 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 8:44 Second time he's ever heard that, right? "Who's gonna carry the boats?"

Joe Rogan 8:47 That's all he hears all day long is people yelling, "Stay hard."

Oz Pearlman 8:52 Oh. Stay hard.

Joe Rogan 8:52 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 8:52 The memes that people have put together are just those videos.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Ugh.

Oz Pearlman 8:56 And he's got a great sense of humor, which people-

Joe Rogan 8:58 Oh, he's got a great-

Oz Pearlman 8:58 ... don't realize. He's got a great sense of humor.

Joe Rogan 8:59 He's a fun dude.

Oz Pearlman 9:00 He's a really fun guy, man. Love that guy.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Yeah, he's, he's a fun dude. He's just very fucking serious-

Oz Pearlman 9:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:05 ... about, about pushing himself. Did you see the video of him and Israel Adesanya?

Oz Pearlman 9:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:11 Yeah, it was crazy.

Oz Pearlman 9:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:12 Like Israel Adesanya, world-class athlete, world championship fighter.

Oz Pearlman 9:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:16 Cannot comp- can't keep up with this 50-year-old man.

Oz Pearlman 9:18 Who was the other one? Was it, was it, was it Jon Jones? Who was the other one he trained?

Joe Rogan 9:22 Tony Ferguson?

Oz Pearlman 9:22 Tony, Tony.

Joe Rogan 9:23 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 9:23 His like cardio is through the roof.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Through the roof.

Oz Pearlman 9:25 I mean, Tony was like-

Joe Rogan 9:25 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 9:26 ... that guy, five rounds, it's just insane.

Joe Rogan 9:28 Yep, yep.

Oz Pearlman 9:28 Never, never gasses out.

Joe Rogan 9:30 Yep.

Oz Pearlman 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:31 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 9:31 He might have over-trained. He got-

Joe Rogan 9:32 He might have.

Oz Pearlman 9:32 Goggins, Goggins run, ran through, uh, the washer right there.

Joe Rogan 9:35 Well, it would've been interesting if he got a hold of Tony when Tony was in his prime. You know? He got a hold of Tony when Tony was at the end of his career, essentially.

Oz Pearlman 9:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:43 You know?

Oz Pearlman 9:44 Well, I mean that's always it, right?

Joe Rogan 9:45 It is.

Oz Pearlman 9:45 Judge a fighter at the prime.

Joe Rogan 9:46 Well, yeah, and absolutely. And with fighters, you know, there's just, especially natural fighters that aren't taking any steroids or anything, when, when it gets to a certain point in time, the game is over. Just, that's just how it is.

Oz Pearlman 9:58 Right. Time is undefeated.

Joe Rogan 9:59 Yeah. Time is undefeated. But fucking Goggins, almost 50, still out there doing it. He's just-

Oz Pearlman 10:05 And he's been injured so many times. Like he's-

Joe Rogan 10:07 Not just injured.

Oz Pearlman 10:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:08 People need to understand the mental strength, and we've talked about it on the podcast before, we showed his X-rays.

Oz Pearlman 10:13 Yep.

Joe Rogan 10:13 The work that he's had done on his knees. I mean, it's all insane. It's insane. They do experimental stuff on his knees.

Oz Pearlman 10:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:19 His knees are destroyed.

Oz Pearlman 10:21 I mean, they must be.

Joe Rogan 10:21 Yeah, they're destroyed. They're c- complete bone on bone, and he just keeps running on them. (laughs) Just like okay.

Oz Pearlman 10:28 He cross-trains though. I mean, the dude, like the pull-up record-

Joe Rogan 10:31 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 10:31 ... his hands.

Joe Rogan 10:32 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 10:32 Cam Haneson, right, true?

Joe Rogan 10:33 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 10:33 I just saw that. Man, what a stud that kid is. I've been watching. I, I, I follow him.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Chip off the old block.

Oz Pearlman 10:38 He is... I've never met him, but man, he's-

Joe Rogan 10:40 He's great.

Oz Pearlman 10:41 ... that consistency and that, putting that together, and, uh, yeah. Very impressive. I don't know. Like I...

Joe Rogan 10:46 I've known him since he was a kid, so to me it's fun-

Oz Pearlman 10:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:49 ... to watch him become a man and then bec- become this beast.

Oz Pearlman 10:52 Beast.

Joe Rogan 10:52 Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, he did... I think it was... Was it 9,000 chin-ups in 24 hours or 10,000?

Oz Pearlman 10:59 I think it was more. I think it was 10,000.

Joe Rogan 10:59 9,000 was the record.

Narrator 11:00 I think he stopped at 10,001 and just went-

Joe Rogan 11:01 Right.

Narrator 11:02 ... "I'm good."

Joe Rogan 11:03 9,000 was the record and he got to 10,000. So he broke the record first, and then some cat in Australia broke the record, beat his record, and then he just demolished that guy's record.

Oz Pearlman 11:12 And then I saw his thing, which was a flex, which reminded me of something I did which was like one of the highlight moments in my running career, which is he goes, "I got another personal best in the same week at a marathon."

Joe Rogan 11:21 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 11:22 And so he ran... So I one time did two marathons, uh, a week apart, like six days apart. I did a New Jersey marathon, I won it. And then the next week I did a Long Island marathon and I got clipped by some college runner who beat me in the last like quarter of a mile.

Joe Rogan 11:35 Damn, you won a marathon?

Oz Pearlman 11:36 I, I won that one four times in a row, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:38 That's insane. What, what's the time?

Oz Pearlman 11:40 Uh, my fast time's a 2:23.

Joe Rogan 11:42 Two hours and 23 minutes-

Oz Pearlman 11:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:44 ... for a fucking marathon?

Oz Pearlman 11:45 Yeah, I love Goggins, but every race we've run against each other, I beat him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:49 (laughs)

Narrator 11:49 Well, you have two knees.

Joe Rogan 11:52 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 11:52 But, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:52 That's insane. That's, that's world-class, man.

Oz Pearlman 11:55 I mean, it's like-

Joe Rogan 11:56 Isn't it?

Oz Pearlman 11:56 ... it's like, uh, fast for a weekend warrior. My claim to fame-

Joe Rogan 11:59 Two hours and 23 minutes?

Oz Pearlman 12:00 ... one year at the New York City marathon, I wanna f- I wanna remember this.

Joe Rogan 12:03 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 12:03 I- I got 30th place, but at my shows I tell people I was the fastest Jew. That's all that mattered.

Joe Rogan 12:08 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 12:08 That's all. The fastest Jew.

Narrator 12:09 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 12:09 All that mattered.

Joe Rogan 12:10 (laughs) That's super impressive that you win marathons. Like that-

Oz Pearlman 12:14 Well, I won that one, and then six days later, six or seven, I did this other one and I got beat by this kid who was like 22. I don't care how old I was, 30s. And he beat me and he fell and collapsed at the finish. And I'm like, uh, again, I'm pretty fresh. And he goes, "Oh my God, man." He goes, he goes, "Is that your personal best?" And I'll never forget looking in his eyes and this guy's wrecked, and I go, "Bro, that's not my personal best this week." And it was just, it was just the most fulfilling thing to say for not having won. But I'd run literally a, a week earlier faster, so I, ugh, that was a great moment.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Yeah, but he beat you.

Oz Pearlman 12:44 He did beat me. True. First loser.

Joe Rogan 12:45 That's a weird flex.

Oz Pearlman 12:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:47 It's a weird flex.

Oz Pearlman 12:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:48 So you were a stockbroker?

Oz Pearlman 12:51 I wasn't technically a stockbroker. I worked on Wall Street, but I did-

Joe Rogan 12:53 What'd you do on Wall Street?

Oz Pearlman 12:54 ... tech. So I, I went to school for electrical engineering, and then worked like, I don't know, the tech guys who supported the ibankers.

Joe Rogan 13:00 Okay. And then, how did you get involved in this mentalist thing?

Oz Pearlman 13:04 This mentalist thing, right. What a weird thing. So when I was a teenager, I started doing magic tricks. So I saw a guy on a cruise ship, and I, I'd never seen really a magician. I'd never re- I wasn't into it, didn't know about it, didn't have a kid's party magician when I was a kid. And I was obsessed. Literally, I was on a cruise, I followed this guy around the cruise ship. It was a little bit stalker-esque, and there's not that many places to hide if you're a grown man. So I was finding this guy everywhere to just see more tricks. And I got back home, and I bought every book I could at Borders. I went to the library. I was obsessive.

Joe Rogan 13:35 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 13:35 I'm kind of those types of people who, I don't do anything 80%, 90%. Given the running today, it's like 120%.

Joe Rogan 13:42 Wow.

Oz Pearlman 13:42 And that was the thing for about, I don't know, 20 years is more I was doing magic. I was always doing magic on the side. I paid for college doing magic.

Joe Rogan 13:50 Really?

Oz Pearlman 13:50 Had to run a couple businesses, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:51 What did you do, like do shows?

Oz Pearlman 13:53 So I graduate high school when I was 16. Um, I like skipped a grade, all this, and then my folks got divorced, long story, and, uh, they moved back to Israel. I was born in Israel, so they separately moved back to Israel. So I was a bit of a, I, I guess, I don't know, an adult. Like I had nobody supporting me. So when I went to college, I turned 17, I had to, I had to pay all the bills.

Joe Rogan 14:11 Whoa.

Oz Pearlman 14:11 Yeah. (laughs) So I, I had, I was doing magic at restaurants. I've been doing magic at restaurants for like 30 years. And that's where I learned how to read people, just how to go up to a table of people who are like, "Who's this twerp?" Like, "Who's this nerdy kid with braces?" Like, "What are you doing here? Get outta here."

Joe Rogan 14:25 Right.

Oz Pearlman 14:25 And how do you win them over quickly?

Joe Rogan 14:26 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 14:27 And that's honestly the biggest skill, is how do you in sales read people effectively?

Joe Rogan 14:32 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 14:33 Right? That, that's what I'm selling.

Joe Rogan 14:34 Right.

Oz Pearlman 14:34 I'm selling the thought of reading your mind.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Now, did you learn the techniques from books? Did you take classes? Like what did-

Oz Pearlman 14:40 No classes. Books and videos. Did magic. And so mentalism is kind of a field. Uh, y- like you had David Blaine in here, right?

Joe Rogan 14:49 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 14:49 Legend.

Joe Rogan 14:50 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 14:50 Man, growing up, like icon. So magic tricks are different, because magic is there's sleight of hand, right? So you're deceiving your eye by making you look at the wrong place at the right time when I do a move. And I can practice that move over and over and over until I get it perfect, so that when I perform it for you, it works, right?

Joe Rogan 15:10 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 15:11 Stand-up comedy, the most pure art form, right? You and a mic, that's it. Mine is the closest. Magic, you have props. Mentalism, there's no props.

Joe Rogan 15:19 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 15:19 Like, I don't need you to pick a card anymore. I don't need it.

Joe Rogan 15:22 Right.

Oz Pearlman 15:22 I can just tell you, "Think of a card."

Joe Rogan 15:24 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 15:24 And that's where I go with it. So now, you start knowing how people think. And you, in essence, reverse engineer the human mind.

Joe Rogan 15:30 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 15:30 It's kinda like magic of the mind. And so that's where it kinda went from magic, and I kept doing more of the mentalism, more of it. But mentalism has a very steep learning curve. If you go do an open mic and you suck, how many people get to the level of getting better, getting better, putting in the work? Takes 10 years to be funny for most people, right?

Joe Rogan 15:49 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 15:49 There's a couple phenoms, but that's a different story. So most mentalists, they drop off, 'cause I'm just gonna go back to magic tricks.

Joe Rogan 15:56 Hmm.

Oz Pearlman 15:56 This works every time.

Joe Rogan 15:58 Hmm. So it's more difficult to learn?

Oz Pearlman 16:01 Way more difficult.

Joe Rogan 16:02 Is it, uh, sheltered? Like, is the, the material on it difficult to find? Is like-

Oz Pearlman 16:06 It's, it's, I think it's more that people don't have the, the thick skin. Like, the same way you said the quitting mentality, where I came back the year later, most people won't improve, because you can't practice mentalism in front of a mirror. You can practice magic. So when I do the trick on you, and it's a card trick, no, no offense to magic, it's great, but what we're talking about's a much higher level. I can't get it right, and the first few times you do it, the first 100 times, you eat, you know, you eat shit. Like, you're gonna get it wrong. And most people don't wanna do that.

Joe Rogan 16:33 Oh.

Oz Pearlman 16:34 Watch, watch. Let's try something fun.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 16:36 Okay? How about this? If I were to ask you, how long you been married?

Joe Rogan 16:42 16 years.

Oz Pearlman 16:43 Okay, nailed that question. Well, well played.

Joe Rogan 16:45 Thank you.

Oz Pearlman 16:45 You got hit. Your sister's happy, your wife's happy. If I asked you, would your wife know your Social Security number?

Joe Rogan 16:51 No.

Oz Pearlman 16:51 She doesn't know it?

Joe Rogan 16:52 No.

Oz Pearlman 16:53 So is there any way in the world I could know your Social Security number?

Joe Rogan 16:55 I don't think so.

Oz Pearlman 16:56 Right? You say, "I'm a stalker." Who knows, yeah. Also-

Joe Rogan 16:57 Yeah, you could've got the information-

Oz Pearlman 16:59 Maybe.

Joe Rogan 17:00 ... online.

Oz Pearlman 17:00 Agreed, agreed.

Joe Rogan 17:01 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 17:01 I'm skeptical, you're skeptical.

Joe Rogan 17:03 Well, especially someone famous.

Oz Pearlman 17:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 17:05 Fully. Plus, you can't change that, so I'm not gonna do that to you.

Joe Rogan 17:07 Is it data dumps? Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 17:08 You know, if I told you right now to make up a random number, I'd say, "Get out your calculator." I'd love that, and you add it up and you do a random number. You know, I'm, screw calculator, I want it to be spontaneous. Would your wife know your ATM PIN code? No?

Joe Rogan 17:20 No.

Oz Pearlman 17:22 Lie to me. Do not tell me your real ATM PIN code.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 17:25 Obviously, unless you want to. (laughs) Make up a fake four-digit number off the top of your head. What feels to you utterly spontaneous.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 17:32 And when I say go, one, two, three, four-digit code, f- random, go. (snaps fingers)

Joe Rogan 17:37 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 17:37 Say it.

Joe Rogan 17:38 2020.

Oz Pearlman 17:39 2020, okay. So you ask me how do I do what I do?

Joe Rogan 17:42 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 17:42 Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna write down 2020.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 17:48 It's weird, but statistically, men will lie bigger, women smaller. Men like to lie by saying things are bigger, right? No shocker.

Joe Rogan 17:55 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 17:55 So I don't think I would tell you right off the jump for me that that means that your first number, you don't have to say anything yet, I wrote 2020, is smaller. That's what most people do when they're rushed. If I had given you five minutes, you would've done this different. And-

Joe Rogan 18:08 No, I wouldn't have.

Oz Pearlman 18:08 No, you would've. Try, uh, uh, try do it.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Why would I have?

Oz Pearlman 18:10 You, because you would've thought about it, and then people-

Joe Rogan 18:12 No.

Oz Pearlman 18:12 ... go down a different path.

Joe Rogan 18:13 Nope.

Oz Pearlman 18:14 No?

Joe Rogan 18:14 Nope.

Oz Pearlman 18:14 Okay. Worked out for me either way.

Joe Rogan 18:16 Nope.

Oz Pearlman 18:16 You'll be honest if I'm right.

Joe Rogan 18:18 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 18:20 I got a hit, which means it's a zero or a one. I think the first number of your code's a one, isn't it? Your real PIN code?

Joe Rogan 18:28 My ATM PIN code?

Oz Pearlman 18:29 ATM PIN code.

Joe Rogan 18:30 Why would I tell you that on the air?

Oz Pearlman 18:31 C- should I, should I only show this to you?

Joe Rogan 18:33 Sure.

Oz Pearlman 18:34 Only show it to you?

Joe Rogan 18:35 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 18:35 Can we acquiesce that the first number I got was correct?

Joe Rogan 18:37 Yes.

Oz Pearlman 18:38 Okay. Now, you did repetition. So yeah (laughs) , I like the fact when people always say to me it's fake when they watch the videos. They're like, "You must've set up." Joe doesn't even want this to happen right now. He had no idea this was gonna happen. You used two numbers in repeats. What that means is you probably did the same thing. You also didn't use any of the same numbers. I know there's not a two, a zero, or a two in it. I don't think so either.

Joe Rogan 18:57 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 18:58 So...And I'm watching you while I say it. You put the hand up, you might as well have said yes to me out loud, so now I know. Think of the second number-

Joe Rogan 19:05 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 19:06 ... third number, fourth number.

Joe Rogan 19:07 Got it.

Oz Pearlman 19:07 Every time you did it, it's a data point.

Joe Rogan 19:10 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 19:13 I'm only gonna ask you one more question. I'm not looking for answers. The last number's the biggest, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 19:18 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 19:18 Yeah. I'm showing this to you. Is there a camera behind me? I don't wanna make sure. I'm only gonna show it to you.

Narrator 19:25 I have this one on.

Oz Pearlman 19:26 It's not 2020. How'd I do, Joe? Is that your ATM PIN code?

Joe Rogan 19:30 Yeah. (laughs) That's weird. I'm skeptical because I've got that PIN code in the mail.

Oz Pearlman 19:40 (laughs)

Narrator 19:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:41 You know?

Oz Pearlman 19:43 He's calling his bank right now and being like, "Yo, do you know this? Has this guy been playing the long game?"

Joe Rogan 19:46 Yeah, I don't like that. It's not 1950 anymore, people. We know our food is different. Highly processed and less nutritious. Industrial farming practices often strip nutrients from the soil and can deplete the nutrients available for us from food. Even the healthiest diets can have nutrient gaps, but AG1 Next Gen helps fill those gaps. It's a more-in-one daily health drink to give your body the nutrients that you can't get from food alone, especially in today's day and age. AG1 Next Gen is clinically backed, rigorously tested, and trusted by athletes and experts. I've been partnering with AG1 for so long because they really do the work to help you feel a difference in your health. If you wanna feel a difference and fill your nutrient gaps, subscribe today to try their newest clinically backed formula, AG1 Next Gen. You'll also get a bunch of other free stuff like a bottle of D3+K2 and five of the upgraded travel packs with your first subscription. Just go to drinkag1.com/jorogan. One scoop a day, your body will thank you. Again, that's drinkag1.com/jorogan. Have you ever done that to people and then t- withdrawed money?

Oz Pearlman 21:01 No comment. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:02 Interesting. Interesting. That's weird.

Oz Pearlman 21:04 I'm trying to avoid criminal... Yeah, so I want everyone to know that was correct, right?

Joe Rogan 21:07 Yes.

Oz Pearlman 21:07 That is, you went 2020.

Joe Rogan 21:09 Yeah, that was correct.

Oz Pearlman 21:10 Your wife of 16 years doesn't know it, and now I do.

Joe Rogan 21:12 But, but it's only, it's 2020 not... It's just 'cause that's the year I moved here. It wasn't like-

Oz Pearlman 21:17 Hmm, I think, I know you think that's the case.

Joe Rogan 21:18 No, that's 100% the case.

Oz Pearlman 21:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:20 That's exactly what it is. What do you mean, you know, I think that's the case?

Narrator 21:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:25 You said a four-digit number, and I was like, "Oh, the date I moved here."

Oz Pearlman 21:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:29 2020, perfect.

Oz Pearlman 21:32 I hear you.

Joe Rogan 21:33 You don't believe me?

Narrator 21:33 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 21:33 It's not that I don't believe you. It's that we got layers. So like, we're peeling through, and I know why you think you picked it. And I know that you think you gave me no information.

Joe Rogan 21:42 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 21:42 But I'm telling you that, good luck finding out how in the world could I have found out your ATM PIN code. You said nobody knows this. That informed what I did. So, had you thought of a different number, your Social Security, you wouldn't have said 2020.

Joe Rogan 21:54 But that ATM PIN code is one that was assigned to me by the bank and I never changed it.

Oz Pearlman 21:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:00 So no, I didn't pick it.

Oz Pearlman 22:01 That's even better, isn't it? Had you picked it, I could've looked this up. That's actually, to me, more of a gold standard.

Joe Rogan 22:07 No, because you could get it from the bank, 'cause the bank is the one that fucking sent it to me.

Oz Pearlman 22:11 I, I guess, man. If I have broken into your bank account, there are bigger things at play than this podcast, I feel.

Joe Rogan 22:18 I'm kidding. I don't keep a lot of money in that account.

Narrator 22:21 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 22:21 (laughs) Watch this. Watch this. How many UFC fights do you think you've seen in person or commentated?

Joe Rogan 22:26 Boy, I don't even know. I really don't know.

Oz Pearlman 22:30 Well, what you've seen, I'm gonna be honest.

Joe Rogan 22:32 It's gotta be worth UFC two thou- two hou- what is it?

Narrator 22:36 Uh, 200... 234 or something.

Joe Rogan 22:41 What is it at now? 235 is the next one?

Oz Pearlman 22:43 But each fight has an undercard, you got the-

Joe Rogan 22:45 Yep.

Oz Pearlman 22:45 ... you got the title fight, you got em-, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:46 Sometimes as many as 15 fights.

Oz Pearlman 22:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:49 Or as few as-

Narrator 22:50 Three, three. 316.

Joe Rogan 22:52 What is it?

Narrator 22:52 316.

Joe Rogan 22:54 UFC 316 is now?

Narrator 22:55 And coming up on June 7th.

Joe Rogan 22:56 What did I say? Two?

Narrator 22:57 Yeah, I was thinking two's, for a second too. I was like, "Didn't we have 300 already?"

Joe Rogan 23:00 Why did I say two? Oh, you know what I'm thinking? I'm confusing podcast numbers. We're in the 2000s, so that's what it is.

Oz Pearlman 23:04 Oh, yeah, you're a lot of podcasts.

Joe Rogan 23:05 UFC, yeah, that's, so it's UFC three what?

Narrator 23:08 316.

Joe Rogan 23:09 316.

Narrator 23:09 With 10 fights per gen, 12.

Joe Rogan 23:10 So, I haven't been on all of those cards. Um, but I started commentary-wise in 2021. And, uh, just as a post-fight interviewer in '97. So '97, I did it for two years, not as many shows. And then, from 2001, (sighs) I used to do 20 a year. I used to do a lot. I was doing most of them. I would say thousands of fights.

Oz Pearlman 23:40 Thousands, right?

Joe Rogan 23:41 Probably.

Oz Pearlman 23:41 So watch this, 'cause I-

Joe Rogan 23:42 I guess.

Oz Pearlman 23:42 ... love that, I like the way you think and I like that you're skeptical, 'cause I'm a huge skeptic.

Joe Rogan 23:46 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 23:47 I'm always the one calling BS on this.

Joe Rogan 23:48 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 23:49 Right? That's how I be- that's how I started doing it. If you think through all your fights and you go back in time, and they need to know, this is spontaneous. This is impulsive. You have not thought of this before this moment, have you?

Joe Rogan 23:58 Right.

Oz Pearlman 24:00 I want you to stop and start thinking of different fighters. Past or present.

Joe Rogan 24:04 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 24:05 Could be somebody huge. Could be a legendary figure. Could be somebody more under the radar.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 24:10 Maybe you've had them on the podcast, maybe you haven't. Watch.

Joe Rogan 24:13 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 24:13 Make sure you think I'm not guiding you. The same with you, you said 2020, you go, "I said that. I would've said it no matter what." Let someone jump into your mind-

Joe Rogan 24:20 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 24:20 ... right now, that you've definitely seen one of his, I guess, or her fights.

Joe Rogan 24:25 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 24:26 Bam. I'm not guessing it. I don't care.

Joe Rogan 24:27 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 24:27 Tell us. Was it a specific fight you saw this person in? Or are you just seeing the fighter?

Joe Rogan 24:32 Just seeing the fighter.

Oz Pearlman 24:33 No, no. Go to a specific fight of that person. Try to like, contextualize it.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Oh. Huh.

Oz Pearlman 24:45 Or change to a different fighter right now if you feel like you need to.

Joe Rogan 24:48 Maybe. Let me think, let me think.

Oz Pearlman 24:51 See, Joe's not gonna wanna change.

Joe Rogan 24:52 I am trying not to.

Oz Pearlman 24:52 But now that I have said that...

Joe Rogan 24:53 I'm trying to get it crafty.

Oz Pearlman 24:55 Yeah, get crafty.

Joe Rogan 24:55 I'm trying to move along here. Are you gonna c- come up with the name of the fighter?

Oz Pearlman 24:59 I'm not coming up with anything.

Joe Rogan 25:00 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 25:00 I wanna see how your mind works. I'm only doing this because you told me, "I would've said 2020 no matter what."You think that you had the thought regardless of what I did, and I want you to see that there's causality. Boom, do it now. Who just came into your head?

Joe Rogan 25:14 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 25:14 Tell us. I'm not guessing.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Anderson Silva.

Oz Pearlman 25:16 Anderson Si- legendary, right?

Joe Rogan 25:18 Yes.

Oz Pearlman 25:18 Did he win or lose that fight?

Joe Rogan 25:19 He won.

Oz Pearlman 25:20 He won that fight.

Joe Rogan 25:21 Yes.

Oz Pearlman 25:22 How many people did you go to- so funny you said Anderson Silva, legendary guy. How many people did you think of before you landed on him?

Joe Rogan 25:29 Oh, I don't know. I just-

Oz Pearlman 25:30 Guess.

Joe Rogan 25:30 ... scrolled Rolodex. They just all went flying through my mind.

Oz Pearlman 25:34 Just give me a guess. How many times do you-

Joe Rogan 25:36 Dozens.

Oz Pearlman 25:36 Dozens?

Joe Rogan 25:37 Yeah, they just all went flying through my head.

Oz Pearlman 25:39 Dozens?

Joe Rogan 25:39 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 25:40 If you had to put a number on it, and you actually counted them, how many do you think you went through? Guess.

Joe Rogan 25:48 (sighs) I mean, let's be conservative and say like 14. Let's not even say dozens. Let's say-

Oz Pearlman 25:51 He was the 14th fighter that popped into your head?

Joe Rogan 25:54 No. No. He was in there. He was in the mix.

Oz Pearlman 25:56 He was in the mix.

Joe Rogan 25:57 I was just sh- I was just trying to figure out which one to pick. I was gonna get one with a crafty Russian name.

Oz Pearlman 26:01 Should've. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:01 Uh. (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 26:03 Some of those Chechens.

Joe Rogan 26:04 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 26:05 All right, no. 14 people went through your head. Anderson Silva. Uh, it's... Do you think that at some point in this week, you heard something that got that in the back of your head that made you say that now? Do you think there's any way that that could've happened?

Joe Rogan 26:20 No, I don't believe so. No.

Oz Pearlman 26:22 You don't, right?

Joe Rogan 26:22 No, I don't believe so.

Oz Pearlman 26:23 Okay.

Joe Rogan 26:23 I've just been a huge fan of his forever. I, I don't think something popped up that made me think about him.

Oz Pearlman 26:29 All right. I'm just curious.

Joe Rogan 26:30 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 26:31 No trick. I'm just curious why that happened. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:34 Okay. Yeah. (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 26:36 Where do we go from here?

Joe Rogan 26:36 Where you going with this?

Narrator 26:37 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 26:37 Where are you going with this?

Joe Rogan 26:38 I don't know where I'm going.

Oz Pearlman 26:39 You don't know?

Joe Rogan 26:40 I do.

Oz Pearlman 26:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 26:41 But I'm not telling you yet.

Oz Pearlman 26:42 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 26:46 (sips)

Oz Pearlman 26:46 Now Joe's flummoxed. He's like, "Where do we go?"

Joe Rogan 26:48 No, I mean, like-

Oz Pearlman 26:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:49 ... I don't know why you asked me the question if you don't have a resolution.

Oz Pearlman 26:52 Oh, I'm not guessing it. I wanted to see where you thought of, why it came to your mind. There, there will be a reason. I don't wanna explain it yet, but you'll see.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Oh. Okay.

Oz Pearlman 26:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:59 There'll be a reason why it came into my mind?

Oz Pearlman 27:00 I think so. I think there is.

Joe Rogan 27:02 Really?

Oz Pearlman 27:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:02 What's the reason?

Oz Pearlman 27:03 Well, I don't, I don't wanna tell you yet.

Joe Rogan 27:04 Why?

Oz Pearlman 27:04 I'm selling the sizzle, not the steak.

Narrator 27:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:09 So these techniques that you use...

Oz Pearlman 27:12 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 27:12 I- are these ones that you've invented or are these ones that-

Oz Pearlman 27:15 A lot of them.

Joe Rogan 27:15 A lot of them.

Oz Pearlman 27:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Yeah. And how did you invent them? How did they come to you?

Oz Pearlman 27:19 You know what? I think, uh, m- my favorite form of entertainment by far is standup comedy. Like straight up, I'm a fanboy of comedians. Like not the people that do what I do, because that's, I just love watching how you can take any premise, and stuff that's not funny, right? The people that really go, you know, you just... Like Andrew Schulz, the, you, Life, did you watch his?

Joe Rogan 27:39 I haven't seen it yet. No.

Oz Pearlman 27:40 You haven't seen it?

Joe Rogan 27:41 No.

Oz Pearlman 27:41 So how do you take infertility, right, and just, it's not really a very funny subject, and make an inc- it was incredible. One of the best specials.

Joe Rogan 27:48 No, he's amazing. He's amazing.

Oz Pearlman 27:48 He's so good. He's so good. And so I like the fact that how you invent that. So I design with an end in sight. I say, "What do I want people to remember about what I do?"

Joe Rogan 27:59 Hmm.

Oz Pearlman 28:00 Because I'm not really in the business of fooling you, honestly, and like entertaining you. All of those are side effects. What do I think I do for a living? I create memorable moments, which is very definable because if you go see a movie, let's say you see a popcorn flick. You walk out of the movie theater 10 minutes later, "Wh- wh- what happened in the movie?" "I don't know. I don't know. It was fun. I don't know." That, to me, is 100% like the death of my show. You leave and you will remember things, hopefully for years to come. And that's because I can rework your memory. That's really a lot of the techniques I do. People think that your memory is infallible, that what you see is some sort of blueprint, like a video.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 28:38 And it's not. It, it, it has to do with how you feel in the moment, the emotions, the things you can position, the same way hypnosis works. So I can kind of engineer memories in a certain way, the way people remember things, the way they think, and create those moments that people talk about hopefully for years. And that's what's been, you know, I guess, that's what's been the driver of my business and what's helped, helped lead to my success.

Joe Rogan 28:58 Engineering memories.

Oz Pearlman 28:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:59 And when you first started getting into mentalism, is that the word you used for it?

Oz Pearlman 29:03 Yeah, men- yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:03 Mentalism.

Oz Pearlman 29:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:04 You're a mentalist, but do you call it mentalism?

Oz Pearlman 29:06 (laughs) I guess so. Yeah, mentalism.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Did you know that or is it something that-

Oz Pearlman 29:10 No.

Joe Rogan 29:10 ... no.

Oz Pearlman 29:10 I learned it. I lear- you know what? I learned certain things and I observed them, and I didn't understand why they happened. Do you ever have that? You ever have a moment in a set where you say something that you didn't think was funny, but got a huge laugh?

Joe Rogan 29:20 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 29:21 Do you, do you have that?

Joe Rogan 29:22 Sure.

Oz Pearlman 29:22 Or do you always know-

Joe Rogan 29:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oz Pearlman 29:23 'Cause it's, it's usually not the punch. It's like, "I didn't know that would be funny right then."

Joe Rogan 29:26 Oftentimes with a new bit, yeah.

Oz Pearlman 29:28 Right?

Joe Rogan 29:28 You don't, you don't exactly know where it's funny.

Oz Pearlman 29:30 Where the beats are.

Joe Rogan 29:31 Right.

Oz Pearlman 29:31 What was the word I said in this way? What was that inflection point?

Joe Rogan 29:33 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 29:33 So when I was, uh, doing restaurants, I had this trick where I would have somebody pick a card out of a deck of cards, right? They would put the card back in the deck. They sign it with their name. And I used to do this at a bunch of restaurants. They would shuffle up the deck. I give them a rubber band. I say, "Rubber band that bad boy." And I would take the deck and I would throw it at the ceiling. It's kind of a famous trick. And then boom, the ceilings were really high at all the restaurants I worked at, so nobody could peel them down. Their s- card would be stay stuck to the ceiling. And this was great for multiple ways. One, everybody talks about it. They're like, "Dude, this guy stuck my card to the ceiling."

Joe Rogan 30:03 Right.

Oz Pearlman 30:03 "How the hell did he do that?" They would also bring people back to the restaurant, right? Cha-ching, cha-ching. My, the managers loved me 'cause we'd bring more people back to see it and point at where their card was.

Joe Rogan 30:12 Ah.

Oz Pearlman 30:13 Right? Business 101. And so I created a great value proposition to the manager. Why am I there? I'm, you know, getting you guys more customers.

Joe Rogan 30:19 Right.

Oz Pearlman 30:19 But one time I'm listening to people that came back in and they're talking about the trick. And they go, "Yo, man. I, I picked a card. I, I put it back in the deck and, and I shuffled it up. And next thing I know, I look at the ceiling and my card's on the ceiling." And I'm like, "Yo, that's not what happened." I threw the deck up, the deck fell down, and then the card was on the ceiling. So I go, "Why did that guy misremember it?" Right? Maybe he's just drunk, maybe whatever, but I'm trying to understand, why did he have a different memory of the same event?

Joe Rogan 30:47 Oh.

Oz Pearlman 30:48 And what I realized is that people observe what you have them focus on. Right? Tony Robbins has a great bit where he goes, "Right now, close your eyes, tell me everything that's green in this room." And you're like, "Green? I don't..." You know. But then when you open your eyes, "I see that the UFO lights are green instantly." But I say, "Close your eyes again. What's purple in this room?" I'm like, "I didn't look for purple."You find what you're looking for. So, if I-

Joe Rogan 31:10 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 31:10 ... didn't say, it, it took me a while to, like, iterate and figure it out. But if I don't look up when I throw the cards, when I would throw the cards up and let them fall back down on my hand and not look up, the percentage would go 80%, 90% that afterwards, people, when they told the story, they edited, they clipped out the part of me throwing the, the, the deck. And now it becomes a miracle. How the hell is that card on the ceiling stuck? You mean you shuffled it, it was signed, it's on the ceiling? That went from being a good trick to a miracle. And I kinda learned that at about age 15, and I started to realize, how do I do that with everything I do? Because that's a life hack for everything you do. That's not magic. That's life. How do you get people to remember what you want, and forget the things you don't want?

Joe Rogan 31:52 Wow.

Oz Pearlman 31:53 That's how you achieve success. You start to highlight your strengths. You, you find ways, and that's a learnable skill. That's not something for magic, that's something in all of life.

Joe Rogan 32:02 Well, and what is it like when you're thinking this, when you're thinking, "I'm gonna get people to remember something."

Oz Pearlman 32:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:07 What, how, how do you, how are you doing this? Like, what's your intention when you're trying to devise, like, what to, what to do?

Oz Pearlman 32:13 Well, I guess, I guess my intention, well, at the end of the day, I'm a competitive SOB. I wanna be the best in the world at what I do. Like, I'm driven by that.

Joe Rogan 32:19 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 32:19 It's like, Olympic gold medalist, like, I wanna do the best things possible. Most people don't know what a mentalist is. You go on the street, 100 people, how many people are gonna say yeah?

Joe Rogan 32:27 I have a second, um, ATM card.

Oz Pearlman 32:31 (laughs) Leave that for the end, huh?

Joe Rogan 32:32 You wanna try it again?

Oz Pearlman 32:33 Not yet. No- I don't like to do the same thing. I gotta do better stuff.

Joe Rogan 32:35 I wanna see it again, though. I wanna see if you can do it again.

Oz Pearlman 32:38 All right, before we go, how about that? Not right now. We're, we're, we're in flow.

Joe Rogan 32:42 Okay, okay.

Oz Pearlman 32:43 Uh, but-

Joe Rogan 32:44 I'm trying to throw you off.

Oz Pearlman 32:45 Pfft, you could. Listen, I don't get it right every time, that's the other part. A magic trick works every time, this doesn't. I've eaten it on live national TV-

Joe Rogan 32:53 Really?

Oz Pearlman 32:53 ... with millions of people watching. Yeah, man. There's, there's no safety net. Like, it's not a trick. There's not a card trick where you put it in, I find it, there's not like that.

Joe Rogan 33:00 So, how are you doing it?

Oz Pearlman 33:01 Well, I mean, I'm telling you, I don't read minds, I read people. I've got a whole host of different skills, algorithms, you name it. Like misdirection, it's all a wheelhouse of skills that I'm using to create the impression that I can read your mind.

Joe Rogan 33:14 But this has gotta be a weird thing to know how to do.

Oz Pearlman 33:18 Weird like in a bad way or a good way?

Joe Rogan 33:21 Uh, definitely a good way.

Oz Pearlman 33:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:22 But weird till like, you have, like, an extra frequency-

Oz Pearlman 33:26 I agree.

Joe Rogan 33:26 ... that you're tuning into with humans.

Oz Pearlman 33:29 The-

Joe Rogan 33:29 Like you're experiencing life in a different way 'cause you're experiencing life through this understanding of, like, thought patterns in a way that other people don't have.

Oz Pearlman 33:36 It's, you know, what the best way ... Do you remember in Bourne Identity, the first scene, like, one of the scenes where he loses memory and he walks in the restaurant? Do you remember that scene? And he's sitting at a diner. Do you remember that one?

Joe Rogan 33:45 I don't.

Oz Pearlman 33:46 He sits there and he turns, and he goes, he doesn't remember who he is. And he goes, "Why do I know ..." And I'm gonna massacre this quote, but, "I, why do I know that guy's 250, can handle himself in a fight? Why do I know this? Why do I know that, right now, I could run for two and a half miles before my core temperature goes down to this?" Like, he, it's like this amazing superhero spy moment of like, "How the hell does he know all that stuff?" So he's observing life at a much more hyper-focused level than most people are. Most people are dialed in at autopilot. If you could-

Joe Rogan 34:16 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 34:16 ... set a speaker to autopilot and here's what you're observing, I don't do it in my day-to-day life. It requires focus. It's not the same, it's kinda like, I guess, I don't know, I don't lift weights, I just run. But how much focus is required to try do, you know, the largest bench press you've ever done? I assume that you have to get psyched up, you have to focus, you have to do everything right for that to work.

Joe Rogan 34:35 Hm.

Oz Pearlman 34:35 It's just analogy, but for me, when I'm performing, you asked me why did I run 27 miles this morning? That dial's in my mind.

Joe Rogan 34:41 Hmm.

Oz Pearlman 34:41 Like, I'm focused or I thought through everything I'm gonna do today. I'm, it's, it's a laser focus. That got me kind of in tune. I could also have not run, but I, that, that's, that's, I'm also away from home, so that was like my joy. (laughs)

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Joe Rogan 36:35 Um, so, when you're, like, putting together a show, when you're gonna do a show-

Oz Pearlman 36:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:40 ... how do you structure it? Like, how do you, like, like, day one, you're like, "Okay, I'm getting ready to do a show."

Oz Pearlman 36:46 You mean something on TV or like-

Joe Rogan 36:48 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 36:48 ... what I do for a living, like, like events?

Joe Rogan 36:49 Or either one, any kind of show you're doing.

Oz Pearlman 36:52 So, for my day-to-day living, which is, I do a lot of, like, really big corporate events, and then I do, uh, you know, I guess, a lot of private parties, things of that sort, performances, like live performances.

Joe Rogan 37:01 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 37:02 Uh, typically, I, I structure it the same way I think anybody would. I wanna go out the gate very strong. I want to-It very instantly (snaps fingers) established credibility. Who am I? What do I do? Am I any good at it? Uh, and why should you be paying attention to me? 'Cause all those questions off the jump is like, who the hell cares? I always go into it, "Who cares-"

Joe Rogan 37:20 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 37:20 "... what you can do? You're special. I don't care." I like the thought of, "I'm gonna prove to you that this is something incredible, and that it's something you're interested in emotionally." Right? If I told you just p- make a random number up, who cares? But now it's gonna haunt you that that's your freaking ATM PIN code. So-

Joe Rogan 37:35 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 37:35 ... I prefer that. So I do something very quick that freaks you out, and then every single thing needs to have a very clear premise. Like, I call it clarity of effect. I don't like a trick where I'm like, "Get a book, get a Rubik's Cube, get this." Like, it's too confusing. You need to be able to explain to a six-year-old what I did in one sentence for it-

Joe Rogan 37:54 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 37:54 ... to be memorable. That's the key. The best things you've ever seen are typically stuff you can describe in one, max two sentences.

Joe Rogan 38:02 Hmm.

Oz Pearlman 38:05 And for TV, for TV it's the same, same exact thing, but I always like to do new stuff. So I've done a lot of TV appearances, and I always structure it based on who's watching. So rather than it being about me, and me saying, "Oh, look what I can do, and look how cool this is," right? You do a card trick... Again, I'm not saying that's not amazing, but the card trick's about you, typically. If I'm on ESPN, and I've, you know, done hundreds of millions of views doing stuff for football players, you're watching this, you're a football fan, you're like, "Who cares about this guy?" I'm gonna do stuff about football players and about what interests you if you're a fan. I don't know if you've ever seen, I did a ch- a clip with Joe Burrow from the Bengals where I said, "Joe, I ever spoken to you a word in my life?" He goes, "No." (laughs) Like I, honestly, the funny thing about that is I wasn't even supposed to use him in the show. They told me he's shy, he doesn't wanna e- like, don't use him in the show. And they said, "If you can avoid him." And I got in there, I tried to rile up the gang, you know, kind of peer pressure. And I'm like, "Should we get Joe in here?" And they're like, "Yeah, get him up." Haven't spoken a word to this guy in my life. There's no access. I mean, I went in with ESPN. Shout out to Adam Schefter, who I love, who set all these wheels in motion. But Joe stands up, doesn't know me from anyone, and I say, "Every wide receiver and tight end in the room, stand up." And I go, "What if I could tell you who you're gonna throw that ball to? What's that worth?" Right? That's the Holy Grail if you're in football. I go, "Catch the ball, quarterback." I go, "Look at everyone in this room, and now look at me." And I wrote on a huge, huge thing, showed the camera, "Throw it to anybody you want." Throws it, got the first one right. I go, "Let's do it again." (laughs) I go, "Throw it to anyone you want." He goes, "Anyone?" I go, "Anyone." Throws it, got the second one right. Everyone's freaking out. I go, "One last play. One la- Two is luck." And I write, "Fakes to Ja'Marr." You can watch the clip. It, it's most viral thing I've ever done. And he fakes it to Ja'Marr, turns around, throws it to another guy. Nailed it exactly. Just, and you just see his face. And so I was thinking about how I would do that for two years, two years of thinking of every single way that could work, not work, go wrong. Everything about it was, you know, he thought I went in the room, and it's so simple. Uh, that was two years of me thinking about it during every run.

Joe Rogan 40:08 So for two years, you knew you were gonna do this, or-

Oz Pearlman 40:12 Uh-

Joe Rogan 40:12 ... you knew that you were-

Oz Pearlman 40:13 ... I, I, I started with the end. You asked me the same way I don't know how you, like, form a set. But you asked me, how do I design? I was designing with the story people would tell. And so people that don't know who I am, don't know anything, go, "Yo, we saw this guy. Did you see this guy on ESPN? He just told Joe Burrow to throw the ball to any people." Throws it, gets it right. Throws it... Like, the story is I told the quarterback anybody he would throw the ball to.

Joe Rogan 40:32 So it was any quarterback. It wasn't Joe Burrow in your head.

Oz Pearlman 40:36 Well, uh, well, I didn't know who it would be.

Joe Rogan 40:37 But he said you could do it for two years.

Oz Pearlman 40:38 Well-

Joe Rogan 40:38 So for two years, you thought you were gonna be on ESPN, and with a quarterback?

Oz Pearlman 40:42 Well, no. So I had... He was the second season. So when I first started it-

Joe Rogan 40:45 Uh-huh.

Oz Pearlman 40:45 ... I, I start brainstorming. I'm like, I can't control what thoughts come in. I'm constantly thinking about what I'm gonna do. And I, I just do notes apps. I write stuff down in the shower. Like, when I run is when I come up with stuff, and in the shower. Sometimes on airplanes, but I sleep on planes. But that's when it hits me.

Joe Rogan 41:00 Hmm.

Oz Pearlman 41:00 Like, where are your, where are your bursts? You must have, like, where are you getting material?

Joe Rogan 41:05 Mostly late at night-

Oz Pearlman 41:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:06 ... when I write. Yeah, but sometimes driving.

Oz Pearlman 41:08 Driving?

Joe Rogan 41:09 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 41:09 You don't do phone calls or anything?

Joe Rogan 41:11 Yeah, driving or... I mean, uh, (sighs) phone calls, I'm usually concentrated on talking to people.

Oz Pearlman 41:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:15 Th- they're, they're not the times where ideas come to me. A lot of times, it's driving with no music on.

Oz Pearlman 41:21 Wow, yeah. I- I'm never in the car by myself-

Joe Rogan 41:24 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 41:24 ... ever.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Oh, really?

Oz Pearlman 41:25 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 41:25 (smacks lips) Family, but, yeah.

Oz Pearlman 41:26 Five kids. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:27 Oh, wow. (coughs) Yeah, um, d- driving to work.

Oz Pearlman 41:31 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:31 You know? Usually that's when it comes to me.

Oz Pearlman 41:34 Yeah, and I'm in New York City, so there's no-

Joe Rogan 41:37 Or the sauna. Sauna.

Oz Pearlman 41:37 Sauna's good-

Joe Rogan 41:38 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 41:38 ... 'cause you can't be on electronics.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Right. Uh, yeah.

Oz Pearlman 41:41 Yeah, the phones are a killer. The phone's-

Joe Rogan 41:42 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 41:42 ... like, you zap any creativity or boredom. You need boredom.

Joe Rogan 41:45 Yeah, you do need boredom. Yeah, you need boredom for ideas to come to you, for sure.

Oz Pearlman 41:49 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:50 Yeah, that's the problem, uh, essentially with social media is, like, it's a boredom... It, it, you are still bored, but you are occupied.

Oz Pearlman 41:57 Right. You don't get to sit with it.

Joe Rogan 41:59 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oz Pearlman 42:00 Which I think is key-

Joe Rogan 42:02 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 42:02 ... because that's when they kind of fire off.

Joe Rogan 42:04 Yep.

Oz Pearlman 42:04 And I think that's, you know, not to get into it, but, like, so many kids now have no way to deal with boredom.

Joe Rogan 42:11 Yep.

Oz Pearlman 42:11 Like, it's like, "Ah, panic. I gotta get my phone, I gotta-"

Joe Rogan 42:13 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 42:13 You know, that whole feeling of, I wish there was a way to do that, you know?

Joe Rogan 42:17 Yeah, they're just completely unaccustomed to not being constantly entertained-

Oz Pearlman 42:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:21 ... and even entertained by nonsense that's not even really entertaining. It's just distracting-

Oz Pearlman 42:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:26 ... which is a, a big part of it.

Oz Pearlman 42:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 So you sat out for two years prepping this thing. Like-

Oz Pearlman 42:32 No, but I didn't sit out. I was just always thinking. It's like a-

Joe Rogan 42:35 Right, I mean-

Oz Pearlman 42:35 But-

Joe Rogan 42:36 You know, you set out, I should say.

Oz Pearlman 42:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:37 Set out in your mind. You had this idea in your head-

Oz Pearlman 42:40 Yep.

Joe Rogan 42:40 ... for two years.

Oz Pearlman 42:40 How do I do it?

Joe Rogan 42:41 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 42:41 How do you do it?

Joe Rogan 42:42 How do you do it?

Oz Pearlman 42:43 Like, that's, that, that was the question 'cause I didn't know how to do it at first.

Joe Rogan 42:45 Well, how did you do it?

Oz Pearlman 42:46 (laughs) That's the million-dollar question, right? I wouldn't be in business if everybody knew. That's kinda...

Joe Rogan 42:52 Well, okay, even better. How did you learn how to do this kinda thing?

Oz Pearlman 42:56 So I, I started with books, and then there's some videos, but it's a very esoteric-

Joe Rogan 43:01 And what does the books tell you that's applicable?

Oz Pearlman 43:02 They give you a, a series of foundational things. Like, right? Eh, almost everybody who becomes a mentalist starts as a magician. It's kinda like if you're a doctor, you gotta be a doctor before you become a plastic surgeon.

Joe Rogan 43:11 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 43:12 So there's this core set of skills that you utilize.... to, to know how to fool people, right? To know how people think.

Joe Rogan 43:18 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 43:19 Right? Think about it, you- if I taught you a card trick right now, there's always a level of deception. We go, "Oh, that's-"

Joe Rogan 43:25 Sleight of hand.

Oz Pearlman 43:25 Well, not even s- there's tricks called self-working tricks, where you don't need to do any sleight of hand.

Joe Rogan 43:30 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 43:30 They work by themselves as long as you follow the instructions. Like Ikea furniture, like step one, step two, step three.

Joe Rogan 43:35 Got it.

Oz Pearlman 43:35 As long as you can work people in a certain way to do the right things, versus somebody being like, "I'm not doing that," you're like, "Oh, shit. What do I do right now?" Right?

Joe Rogan 43:42 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 43:42 You have to know how to finesse people. You have to influence people effectively. And so, that same stuff within magic almost always applies to props. You need a thing to do the trick.

Joe Rogan 43:54 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 43:55 Now, it could be a regular deck of cards, in which case you're learning sleights, but also there's gimmicks. Right? There's tricks you can buy at stores. Which, when I was a kid, I'm like, "Oh," teenager, I'm like, "Get me the next gimmick." But then to get better, you start being able to do stuff impromptu. Right? That's when you kinda hit another level where I don't need stuff. I can do stuff with anything. You know, I could do stuff, it's like a (laughs) it was a, a good story for my book that I'm writing right now, but it's like where, where, uh, I- I just n- needed anything around. I was like, I end up in jail for a weekend. This is a long story. But like, in jail, one weekend, stupid weekend, but I walk in there by myself, and I, I should've been out that day. But anyway, I got stuck all weekend, and I watched them with cards, and it was like I had trained my whole life for this moment, where I walked up, record scratch, to like 40 dudes, and I go, "Can I see those cards?" And it was like everyone looked at me like, "What's this guy about to do?" And I just did card tricks for the next eight hours.

Joe Rogan 44:46 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 44:46 When I went to take a shower, I'm like, "Am I," I'm like thinking of the show Oz, I'm like, "Oh, my God. Right now, I take a..." I had protection. I went to the shower, Mecosta County Jail, in, in Michigan, and literally I had people being like, "Go take a shower. We got you, bro."

Joe Rogan 44:58 Uh, what did you go to jail for?

Oz Pearlman 45:00 Ugh. So stupid. So we had ... This is so dumb. This almost derailed my whole career. Drunken idiots, I go up to visit a buddy in college, and we steal from a Papa John's, gu- don't ask me why, a broken phone at a college Papa John's. Just being idiots. I paid for the pizza! But there was a broken phone on the counter. And you know, this is like me sleight of hand style. I'm like, "I'm stealing this thing." Just gone. And it was in my jacket. (laughs) And then I told my buddies, "You guys gotta get something too." So they go in the bathroom, which doubles up as the employee locker room, and they take three dirty shirts, dirty shirts from a laundry bin. And we bring them back to my buddy's house, like idiots. We wear them, and we at the party, I barely remember this, I was like blackout drunk, are like, "Papa John's. Who wants a pizza? Who wants a pizza?" I end up going to sleep, uh, on- on his futon, right, at like 2:00 AM, and at 4:00 AM someone comes in and they're like, "Yo, the cops are here." I'm like, "Dude, it's not my house. What do you want from me?"

Joe Rogan 45:52 Did you guys post the videos of the

Oz Pearlman 45:54 No! This is pre-social media, man.

Joe Rogan 45:55 ... talking about Papa John's?

Oz Pearlman 45:56 No, no. Somebody ratted us out. Somebody's roommate, I found this out way later-

Joe Rogan 46:00 Oh.

Oz Pearlman 46:00 ... called and goes, "Yo, bro, there's a bunch of dudes here with a broken phone from Papa John's." I didn't know any of this. But somebody comes in, they're like, "Yo, the cops are here." And are like, "They're here for you." And I'm like, "Here for me? What do you mean they're here for me? I don't live here." And cops come in the room, and I'm wearing, like, aggressively small underwear at this point.

Joe Rogan 46:16 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 46:16 This is like tidy whities. This couldn't have been more of like a bad perp walk. And I, they go, "Yo, you're under arrest." And I'm like, "For what?" And they're like, "For stealing from Papa John's." And what am I gonna say? I'm wearing the shirt. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:29 Oh, my God.

Oz Pearlman 46:31 This is on a Friday night.

Joe Rogan 46:32 How old were you?

Oz Pearlman 46:33 I was 20 years old. And I was just about to get an internship-

Joe Rogan 46:36 (exhales)

Oz Pearlman 46:36 ... for Merrill Lynch. And while this story is hilarious now, and it's like a funny chapter in my book, it was like, God help me, did I avoid everything. Be- and then when I went to jail, yo, scariest, one of the scariest days of my life, 'cause it's-

Joe Rogan 46:49 How- how'd you get out of everything?

Oz Pearlman 46:51 So I got outta everything 'cause I had a clean record. I was a pretty upstanding citizen. And, um, you know, not to get in the weeds, there's something called Holmes Youthful Trainee Act, I wonder if they still have it, where I was expunged from my record, didn't have to report it to like the Wall Street firm, and they also said they were charging me, they put us in like a drunk tank, me and two buddies. And they said they're charging us with felony larceny. And I'm- I- I've seen some s- like Law & Order, I'm like, "Felony?" What, it's like ... What did we steal, like 20 bucks worth of stuff? They go, "But you stole things they don't sell. Had you stolen $999 of pizza, it would've been a misdemeanor." And I know they're lying to me. I'm not a mentalist then, and I'm inebriated, but I can read the room. Didn't say a word. Knew this was BS. And then they separate us when we went to general population.

Joe Rogan 47:32 Uh-huh.

Oz Pearlman 47:33 And it's not like the movies.

Joe Rogan 47:34 Right.

Oz Pearlman 47:34 You know, it's- it's like, it was- it was wild. It was wild when I went in there. And I just knew, this is my cheat code. It was like everything in life had prepared me for this moment. And the jail was also, again, I- I didn't know this, but it was very segregated. Like, the white dudes are here, the Black dudes are here. And I didn't know what ... What do you do when you go in? Like, what do you do? I'm five foot nothing. I'm like a buck 40, dripping wet. What do I do? Who- how do you make friends right now? And- and I see the Black guys playing spades, and I just walk up and it's like, "You make your move." And I'm like, "Let me see those cards." And it was just- it's- it's like a moment I have ... And I didn't stop for hours. And I didn't repeat a trick. Like, I know tricks encyclopedically. I just go all day. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:14 Wow.

Oz Pearlman 48:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:16 What an experience.

Oz Pearlman 48:17 It was crazy.

Joe Rogan 48:17 That's wild.

Oz Pearlman 48:18 And then it was all thrown out, and, uh, cost me some money. It was definitely a very, very stressful few weeks. And I never stole anything since. Honestly, that was Scared Straight, that was very, very smart. Like I ... you prefer to learn a lesson like that, for my kids especially, without being stupid. But so many of us have to be stupid to internalize a lesson of touching the stove, and I had to burn my hands. But ...

Joe Rogan 48:38 Did you always talk this way, the way you talk? You talk very fast-

Oz Pearlman 48:41 I know.

Joe Rogan 48:42 ... with a lot of energy. Is this your whole life?

Oz Pearlman 48:44 I think so.

Joe Rogan 48:45 Yeah?

Oz Pearlman 48:45 Even though man, anyone on 1.5x, the way I listen to podcasts is gonna be miserable with me. But yeah, I talk fast.

Joe Rogan 48:49 Maybe that's it. Like, you're listening to podcasts at that speed, you're communicating at that speed.

Oz Pearlman 48:55 (laughs) Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:55 It's like you're on, you know?

Oz Pearlman 48:57 I'm on.

Joe Rogan 48:58 And you ran 27 fucking miles already today.

Oz Pearlman 49:00 That's true. No caffeine. So I'm not a caffeine guy.

Joe Rogan 49:02 You don't drink caffeine at all?

Oz Pearlman 49:04 I try to avoid it. Like, I'm not a coffee guy. I missed the boat on coffee. I honestly wish I did. It probably wouldn't be good for me, given how dialed in I am. But like, I just never started drinking caffeine, so I never got into it.

Joe Rogan 49:15 Do you ever mess with any stimulants?

Oz Pearlman 49:17 Not really.

Joe Rogan 49:18 No, not really? What does that mean?

Oz Pearlman 49:19 Like, what do you mean by stim- like, I'll have-

Joe Rogan 49:21 Like, anything.

Oz Pearlman 49:21 If I don't sleep-

Joe Rogan 49:23 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 49:23 ... A- and that happens a lot, so if I'm not, like, getting enough sleep, and I've done a red eye, and I'm this and that, I will occasionally do, like, a Celsius or a Red Bull, but I don't really like it. I do it kind of as medicine, because I have to be alive-

Joe Rogan 49:34 Right.

Oz Pearlman 49:34 ... and function, but I really try to avoid it, 'cause I-

Joe Rogan 49:36 What is it like when you get hit with a Celsius and you haven't been drinking any caffeine?

Oz Pearlman 49:41 So I only drink about a third of it, and then I pour it out. Um, and, and my kids are always like, "Why are you pouring that out?" And they call everything a brewski, which is a weird thing to call-

Joe Rogan 49:50 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 49:50 ... just 'cause (laughs) before, I'd always, like, it was always like a brewski is what they, they've, they've extrapolated to every beverage in a can being a brewski.

Joe Rogan 49:57 That's hilarious.

Oz Pearlman 49:58 It's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 49:59 That's funny.

Oz Pearlman 50:00 And so, uh-

Joe Rogan 50:00 But one-third just, like, must jolt you-

Oz Pearlman 50:02 I can't do more than that.

Joe Rogan 50:03 ... to the roof.

Oz Pearlman 50:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:04 Yeah. Like if you drink a Four Loko.

Oz Pearlman 50:06 I did-

Joe Rogan 50:07 Does Four Loko have booze in it?

Oz Pearlman 50:08 Yo, Four Lokos are like-

Joe Rogan 50:10 Does it? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Narrator 50:11 Yeah, it was like booze with caffeine.

Joe Rogan 50:12 But it has, like, caffeine too, right?

Oz Pearlman 50:13 That's like bad decisions in a can right there.

Narrator 50:15 Yeah, that's right. They take it, uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:15 Yeah, like, what am I thinking of? Oh, a Redline. Is that the one?

Oz Pearlman 50:18 No, I think it's Four Loko. It's caffeine mixed with alcohol.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Yeah, but there's, there's one that's like was just caffeine. It was fucking crazy.

Narrator 50:23 Oh, that was the stuff to take like pre-workout. That was fucking people up, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:25 Was it a Redline?

Narrator 50:26 Something like that. There's a few-

Joe Rogan 50:27 Oh, there was that o- that was the other one. That was, uh, RipFuel.

Narrator 50:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:31 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 50:32 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:32 Yeah. So you've always been like this?

Oz Pearlman 50:36 Gotta ask my wife. I think so. But w- I'm more on now, because we're doing something. But if I go on certain platforms or TV and I know I wanna be slow, then I'll just calibrate down.

Joe Rogan 50:45 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 50:46 But I'm getting fired up.

Joe Rogan 50:47 Do you, when you plan out a show, whether it's a corporate show or a television show, do you have like a whiteboard? Do you, like, put your ideas on? Like, how do you, how do you do it?

Oz Pearlman 50:55 Boy, I, it's like I take meticulous notes about everything. Everyone I meet, everything. At the end of a show, immediately, if, as quickly as I can afterwards, probably some people record shows. I hate rewatching myself-

Joe Rogan 51:07 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 51:07 ... on corporate shows and, like, live shows.

Joe Rogan 51:09 Sure.

Oz Pearlman 51:10 I don't mind TV stuff, but for some reason those, if I've repeated material, 'cause I've, you know, it's like muscle memory, you've done this before, it irks me to watch again. But I write down everything that happened, every s- nuance, like paragraphs about everything that happened, which is a useful li- life hack, 'cause I remember it all, but also, I get repeat bookings a lot. So if somebody brings me back, now it's like a real magic trick where I know everything about what happened. And if you even just recount stuff from two years ago, people think you have superhuman memory. Or, what are they like? People's number one subjects are themselves.

Joe Rogan 51:42 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 51:42 Their family, and their friends.

Joe Rogan 51:44 Right.

Oz Pearlman 51:44 The more you can do that-

Joe Rogan 51:45 Right.

Oz Pearlman 51:45 ... and give them back stuff about them, the more, uh, they're like, "Wow, what a caring individual," right? Being a good listener, a lot of times just repeating back to people what they just said.

Joe Rogan 51:53 Right. Right. When you do these corporate shows, and you do these television shows, when it w- goes great, do you have this idea in your head, like, "Now I've gotta ramp it up. Now I've gotta push it even further. Now I've gotta make it even more difficult for me"?

Oz Pearlman 52:11 For sure. For TV, more than corporate, because corporate's not as big of a deal, because, uh, th- what does somebody want there? They want a defined quantity, right?

Joe Rogan 52:20 Right.

Oz Pearlman 52:20 They don't want somebody ... You don't want to work out new material if you're being paid a lot. It just, it's at a stadium.

Joe Rogan 52:25 Right.

Oz Pearlman 52:25 Are you doing new ones? Eh.

Joe Rogan 52:26 Right.

Oz Pearlman 52:27 Like, you're gonna do-

Joe Rogan 52:28 Right.

Oz Pearlman 52:28 ... your hour. You're gonna do what's solid.

Joe Rogan 52:30 Right.

Oz Pearlman 52:30 So I do a lot of that. And the problem is I don't really have a lot of places where I can do new material, because I'm, I'm, I'm just so busy. So I have so many events that I'm, I, I don't really have, like, anything that I could-

Joe Rogan 52:41 Yeah, there are like open mics for mentalists where you can go and practice?

Oz Pearlman 52:44 No. (laughs) There might've been in the past, but right now it's not, uh, it's just not where I'm at. So I-

Joe Rogan 52:47 Do you just practice on friends sometimes, people you know?

Oz Pearlman 52:50 I, everything's in my head.

Joe Rogan 52:51 Everything?

Oz Pearlman 52:51 So, yeah, so I, I, a lot of the things I'll, I'll do on TV, I've never done before ever.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Really?

Oz Pearlman 52:57 Yeah. So I'm just thinking through everything that could go wrong, and I go through kinda like a list of, "What could go wrong here? What could go wrong here? What if they think this right there? What if we change this?" So I have like plan A, B, C, D, E, I have just a long list of what everything will go, like a pick your own adventure. And typically, I know where to go with it, and then controlling your body and your tension is everything, right? So you're a hunter. You step on a branch. Animal hears it. What happens, right? Gone. Right? It's a, it's a, it's a sense that we can feel. We have the same thing. We're animals. If I get tense when something's going wrong, you can sense it. Even if you don't know it on a conscious level, you can sense it.

Joe Rogan 53:38 Right.

Oz Pearlman 53:39 And now we have a cascade. So my job is, is based upon me being somewhat of the alpha and being in control of a situation. And so if I k- right, think about it. If I just said, "Think of your PIN code," you're like, "I don't want to." Right? "I don't want to. I'm gonna do this instead. I'm gonna do this instead." Right? How did you acquiesce to my will? You did what I wanted, in essence. Right? We could manipulate it any way, but at the end of the day, you did what I wanted.

Joe Rogan 54:01 Right.

Oz Pearlman 54:02 And in my show, I am the one pointing the camera. I'm always the director. You don't get to point where you want. I'm kind of in charge. And even if I let you think you're in charge, I'm still in charge at the end of the day.

Joe Rogan 54:12 Right.

Oz Pearlman 54:12 Right? I come to my kids. I want them to eat veggies. I don't say, "You gotta eat your veggies." They'll say no. I go, "You're so lucky right now. Carrots, cucumbers, or peppers. Which one? You're so lucky. You get to choose first before your brother or sister." Now, I've framed it differently.

Joe Rogan 54:26 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 54:27 Right? Anybody who has toddlers knows, that's the best way to do it.

Joe Rogan 54:29 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 54:29 Don't go straight on. That's not gonna work.

Joe Rogan 54:31 Right.

Oz Pearlman 54:32 So the same thing applies. Power dynamics in relationships with people, so I- I got lost in my train of thought. But in essence, if I am messing up and you know it, it's gonna go downhill really fast.

Joe Rogan 54:44 Right.

Oz Pearlman 54:44 And so on TV, some of my biggest mess-ups, you don't know. But I am shitting my pants, flop sweat, like fully, and I can't let you see that. I need to be so calm, because if I am not calm, you can actually, you can actually tell. And it's gonna keep going worse, and I can't get you to go back to what I want, and now I've lost control of the situation.

Joe Rogan 55:03 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 55:03 So years and years were spent doing that. It's, it's, I would say it's very akin to a sniper. Um, I'm, I'm not a sniper. Don't get me wrong. I'm not military. But how do you calm your heart rate? How do you stay calm even when you're not? And I, I could have an HRM on me. I'm calm.... when things are going wrong. The-

Joe Rogan 55:19 And that must help, the running must help for that-

Oz Pearlman 55:21 I think so, 'cause I have a-

Joe Rogan 55:22 ... 'cause it controls your heart rate.

Oz Pearlman 55:23 ... low heart rate.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Uh, just, and control of it as well, right?

Oz Pearlman 55:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Like, your h- your heart muscle's very finely tuned. (tapping noise) Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 55:31 I think it helps. I mean, it can't hurt.

Joe Rogan 55:33 I think it does.

Oz Pearlman 55:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:34 My friend Cam Hanes-

Oz Pearlman 55:35 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:35 ... uh, who also runs these crazy ultra-marathons, he's also the best bow hunter in the world.

Oz Pearlman 55:40 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:40 And bow hunting is, a lot of it is controlling your anxiety at the moment of the shot execution. And I would imagine for him, his heart rate is like completely under control all the time, because he's always like very low.

Oz Pearlman 55:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:53 You know? He's... 'Cause he does so many miles, like everything... He can stay calm. It's probably a really great tool just for staying calm, right?

Oz Pearlman 56:02 I think so. I, I mean, I... The way I describe the ultra-marathons, 'cause they're silly, right? You, he just ran... I, uh, love Cam, ran 250 miles. You see that thing?

Joe Rogan 56:11 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 56:11 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 56:12 Yep.

Oz Pearlman 56:12 That's a crazy thing to do.

Joe Rogan 56:14 It's ridiculous.

Oz Pearlman 56:14 That's not healthy, and I'm a nutcase who can say that. And for most people, they're like, "I don't wanna do that."

Joe Rogan 56:18 Right.

Oz Pearlman 56:18 "And you don't need to." But what is that?

Joe Rogan 56:21 (clears throat)

Oz Pearlman 56:21 What is that, really? When you do that, (can opens) everything else in life becomes easier.

Joe Rogan 56:26 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 56:26 The lows that you experience when you do something like that is a way you cannot fake in any other way. You cannot test who you really are than putting yourself... You could be on the couch saying, "What would I do?" And be tough guy and you'll pretend to be Goggins or Hanes, but until you get in that level where you're miserable, you haven't slept in a day, you haven't... All that, there might be another way to push yourself, but that's where you learn, "Who am I really at my core?" And then when you go back to normal life, everything else, the volume is turned down. And when I come back from those races, all I do is get a mirror to put up to see, "Who am I really when things are at their lowest and when I wanna quit and I don't?"

Joe Rogan 57:04 Hmm. Yeah. I think that's, that's a very strong statement. I think one of the things that you just said there I've said a bunch of times, that if you can work out really hard and push your body and push your mind, it makes other forms of adversity that you face during the day much easier. And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people are so filled with anxiety. It seems like that's such a simple solution that most people don't wanna accept it. They're like, "Oh, there's more to that. There's a mental imbalance. There's a this, there's that." Like, perhaps, but everybody that I know that does what I'm talking about, everybody that I know that pushes themselves very hard in the gym or running or doing yoga or whatever, they're the most happy and the most relaxed, and they're the, able to face adversity throughout the day much easier than people that don't take care of their body, that don't eat well, that don't exercise, and don't experience any voluntary physical discomfort.

Oz Pearlman 57:57 I couldn't agree more. It's-

Joe Rogan 57:58 It's just that, uh, I think it's, it's... I think it's mandatory, you know? And it doesn't have to be what I do or it doesn't have to be what you do, it's... Go find... Do pickleball, okay? Go f- play s- some other sport. Tennis. Do something that's fun. Jujitsu's a great one-

Oz Pearlman 58:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 ... 'cause it's fun to do, and then you learn how to do something while you're working out. Muay Thai is another one like that. You know, there's a lot of stuff that you can do that's fun that's exercise, but, man, you should exercise. You know?

Oz Pearlman 58:26 You gotta move your body.

Joe Rogan 58:27 You gotta move your body.

Oz Pearlman 58:28 And, again, I don't wanna speak outta turn, like medical, but they've shown over and over that exercise is just, it's almost as effective in certain regards in like, like just being a certain level of healthiness than antidepressants.

Joe Rogan 58:39 No, more effective.

Oz Pearlman 58:40 At, yeah, more effective.

Joe Rogan 58:41 More effective.

Oz Pearlman 58:41 It's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 58:42 Statistically, clinically more effective.

Oz Pearlman 58:44 More effective.

Joe Rogan 58:45 Yeah. 'Cause it's... Of course it is. Of course it is. Like, this is the reason why people are so filled with anxiety is 'cause your body has certain physical requirements.

Oz Pearlman 58:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:54 Your body was designed to fight off predators and to run away from enemies and to hunt and gather food. That's the same DNA as people that lived tens of thousands of years ago, courses through your body. That's... Or it's the fabric of your body. That's you.

Oz Pearlman 59:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:09 You, like, you can't deny that, and there's a reason why this s- this sedentary sort of generation that we're experiencing right now because of phones and tablets and all the sitting in front of screens all the time, it's the most depressed.

Oz Pearlman 59:23 Right. No, for sure. Anxious too, like the Jonathan Haidt on, like it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 59:27 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 59:28 ... it's, it's wild, the correlation, and it's just so clear-cut. But yeah, social media is very, uh, it's, it's, it's one of those things, there are some benefits, but man, oh, man, you can't put that genie back in the bottle.

Joe Rogan 59:38 No.

Oz Pearlman 59:38 So you gotta find the right way to do it.

Joe Rogan 59:39 There's some benefits in that there's a lot of inspiration.

Oz Pearlman 59:42 I agree.

Joe Rogan 59:43 You know? And also information. Uh, you know, I'm not completely off of social media. I, I, uh, tap into it, but I've radically reduced it over the last month or so, and in doing that, it's really been much, much nicer. Like, life is way easier. But occasionally I'll find something really interesting on social media, so it's like, "Boy, I don't wanna not know that. I don't wanna not, like, find out about some new scientific breakthrough or some new thing that's going on." One of the things that I've found that, um, helps me though is instead of social media, I just, I just have a bunch of stuff that I curate in my Google News app. And so I'll just, like, find, like, any sort of scientific breakthrough or some weird discovery or a lot o- of really interesting things about ancient civilizations, I just have that stuff curated so it just shows up on my feed, which is so much better.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:34 Where do you get that? On your phone? Right?

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 It's just the Google News app. It's great because it's like that way I can find stuff out without having to go and just hopefully randomly run into it on X or on Instagram.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 You know? That's helped, that helps a lot.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:49 Yeah, I'm terrible with X. A lot of my friends get news on X. I'm just like, "Ugh, it's too-"

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 Just too much negativity.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:53 It's all, a lot of negativity, and for Instagram, for years, I started realizing that it just, uh, like a compare and despair is one of the... Do you know that?

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 1:01:02 Like, where I'm, I'm like, "Why am I getting off of this and feeling worse than I did getting on it?"

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 1:01:08 And so I really had to flip a switch in my brain to, to, to... I got rid of that. Anything that I don't like, I don't show, and I stopped focusing on what I don't have and w- I focus on what I do have.And so, it- it-

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 So did you, like, used to go to it and you see someone with a giant house and a Lamborghini or something like that?

Oz Pearlman 1:01:26 It w-

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Was it material possessions?

Oz Pearlman 1:01:27 It wasn't material.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 What was it?

Oz Pearlman 1:01:28 It was, "I need to use..." So I don't look at people and hope poorly upon them. I look more at it and say, "I'm not doing enough." So it's like a inferior. You're always gonna be lesser than, right? You're always gonna be... Someone's gonna be younger, richer, smarter. Y- like, every -er. But in my case, it was more of I wanted to achieve a level of success. And just seeing other people in my field or other fields, and I felt like, "I'm not doing enough."

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Mm.

Oz Pearlman 1:01:50 'Cause I'm, you know, tr- somewhat driven ambitious. So I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Right.

Oz Pearlman 1:01:53 ... "I'm just not doing enough right now." And it's that constant feeling of, "I'm not doing enough," doesn't drive you. It would be better to see, "Look at them. I'm so happy for them. I'm gonna do that too." Like, I- it should be a positive, uplifting thing, and it's a flip in your brain. It's like multiplying negative one times negative one, and much more of the inflection point of gratitude. Like, I- I- d- do you know Jay Shetty?

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 Mm. I don't know that.

Oz Pearlman 1:02:16 Jay, uh, I don't know, podcaster, really good dude.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 I've hea- uh, I definitely heard of him.

Oz Pearlman 1:02:20 Met him last year, and he told me something very stuck with me for the last year, which is million thoughts a day. We're on social media, we're all this, that. He goes, "The only two thoughts," you can't control them all, but try to control two thoughts each day: the first one when you wake up, and the last one when you go to sleep. It's that easy. Those two. Just try to have the first thing you wake up be one, and before you go to bed just have one last thought.

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 Okay.

Oz Pearlman 1:02:42 And I- it- they're always, for me, it's like, "Yo, I'm- uh, every day alive is a blessing." Like, I- I literally, I believe that in my core, you- I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. Like, a, a, a parent in my school just passed away recently. Shattered, like, young kids, cancer-

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 1:02:56 ... I've known a few people. And you see that, and you're like, "No, that's for real, though." You don't know what will happen tomorrow.

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 Right.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:02 So, I've hit the lottery. Like, I'm blessed beyond measure. Wife, way out of my league.

Joe Rogan 1:03:07 (laughs)

Oz Pearlman 1:03:07 Smart, gorgeous, sharp as a whip, five beautiful kids. Like, I try to focus on everything I have, and never on what I don't have. I get to do what I love for a living. Like, my mindset has completely evolved of, why would I think of what people don't? And everybody, if you're alive, you should be happy. You do not-

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:22 ... know what tomorrow will be. And I know that's all, like, new agey whatever, but that's... You don't know when your- y- your clock's up.

Joe Rogan 1:03:28 We were just talking about that in the green room last night at the comedy club, about gravi- the problem with gratitude is that too many people have co-opted it.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 And really annoying people-

Oz Pearlman 1:03:37 Annoying.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 ... annoying, like, wooden beads types, you know? Like gratitude.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 But, gratitude is really important. It's huge.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:43 But no, it's actually what you think, because your thoughts create a lot of your reality.

Joe Rogan 1:03:47 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:47 The same way I said looking around the room.

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 Mm-hmm.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:49 So if your mindset starts to become one more of, rather than you see someone, you're like, "Screw that guy, he's rich," right? That's how the mindset-

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 Yeah.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:56 That's easy for you to say they're rich. You see that in comments all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 Yep, yep.

Oz Pearlman 1:03:59 I'm like, "I think that person worked their butt off to get