Joe Rogan Experience #2341 - Bernie Sanders

1. 0:00 – 2:26

   America at a pivotal moment: crises, inequality, and a “broken” system

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. NANarrator0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music) Mr. Sanders, it's great to see you.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Good to be with you, Joe.

   5. NANarrator0:14

      (laughs) Great to be... you've got a bunch of notes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      Not all that much. No.

   7. NANarrator0:18

      Have you prepared for this?

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      I am well prepared.

   9. NANarrator0:21

      Well, it's a good time for you to be in here 'cause the, the world's gone haywire.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Yes.

   11. NANarrator0:25

       Yeah. What are your thoughts on this?

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       I think, (sighs) I start off with, Joe, trying to take a deep breath and doing what is not often done, where are we as a country today? What's going well? What's not going well? And I don't think... we don't have, we don't have that kind of basic discussion and, and to my mind, I think in America today, we are facing more serious crises than we have in the modern history of our country. This is a pivotal moment in American history and what happens now will depend, determine the lives of our kids and future generations.

   13. NANarrator1:01

       (smacks lips) What specifically concerns you?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       I'll tell you what concerns me, the issue of wealth and power. All right. I'm kind of old-fashioned and I believe in democracy, and I believe that everybody should have a, a good shot at living a decent life. And what I worry about right now, and this is an issue, Joe, and it's part of the problem, that it just ain't talked about very much. And I, and I applaud, by the way, you and the other podcasters who give people the time to really seriously discuss things rather than seven-second sound bites, you know? But if you take a look at where we are as a nation today, the system is not working. It's broken. It ain't working for ordinary human beings. See, you have an America today where we have more income and wealth inequality than we've ever had in the history of this country. That's just the fact. Uh, you have, um, one man, uh, Mr. Musk, uh, owning more wealth than the bottom 52% of American families. One man, 52% of the American families. You got the top 1% owning more wealth than the bottom 93%. You got CEOs of large corporations making 350 times what their workers make. And meanwhile, in this richest country in the history of the world, working class people are getting decimated. Today... and again, we don't talk about it in Congress for reasons that I'm hope I can get into.

   15. NANarrator2:26

       Yeah.

2. 2:26 – 3:42

   Paycheck-to-paycheck reality and why it’s worse now

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:26

      We don't talk about it in the corporate media. 60%, six, zero percent of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Now, I grew up in a family... I don't know your background, but I grew up in a family lived paycheck to paycheck. And anyone who lives paycheck to paycheck understands that every single day is a struggle, you know? You gotta figure out how you feed the kids, rents, cost of housing in America off the charts, healthcare off the charts. So right now, as we talk, there are people worrying, "My landlord, you know, is gonna raise my rent by 20%. What the hell do I do? Where do I go? How do I... what, what schools do my kid go to? How do I buy decent food for my kids? My mother is ill. How do I afford prescription drugs for my mother? Uh, my car breaks down." You know? So you, you know, if you have money, no one thinks of it. Your car breaks down, go to the mechanic, get it fixed. You know what? A lot of people don't have a thousand bucks in the bank right now. If you don't have a thousand bucks, your car breaks down, how do you get to work? If you don't get to work, you get fired. If you get fired, your whole life is disrupted. 60% of American-

   2. NANarrator3:29

      How much different is that than past generations?

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:32

      It's the... we've always had rich and poor. No question about it. It's worse now, Joe. Uh, it's-

   4. NANarrator3:38

      What do you attribute that to?

3. 3:42 – 6:06

   How policy choices rigged the economy: trade, wages, pensions, and corporate impunity

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:42

      I attribute it to decades old attacks on the working class of this country. I attribute it to horrific trade agreements which have allowed corporate America to throw millions of workers out on the street and move to China, Mexico, and other low wage countries. I attribute it to a corrupt political system in which billionaires have significant control over both political parties. So that, for example, right now in Washington, the national minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. So you got millions of workers today, you know, making 10, 12, 13 bucks an hour. You tell me, how do people survive on 13 bucks an hour? When we were kids, or at least when I was a kid, you worked for a large company that had something called a defined benefit pension plan. You know what that means? That means you work for me for 30 years, when you retire, you're gonna get X hundreds of dollars a week. That's long gone. Corporations have gotten rid of that. So you got something like half of all the workers in America have nothing in the bank when they face retirement. So I think, to answer your question, I think you got a rigged system controlled economically and politically by very, very wealthy and powerful people who could care less for working families. Now, I don't want to romanticize the old days, 'cause that would not be true, but there used to be a kind of a culture of, "I was a boss and I ran a factory." Had a little bit of concern for you. Right?

   2. NANarrator5:07

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:08

      You know, in general, I would say, "I know your wife. How's the how's your mom doing?" And all that stuff. That's gone. You got these companies that are owned by other companies that are owned by super national... you know, we got involved in my office, I used to be the chairman of the labor committee, health, education, labor. So I got involved in a lot of stuff. And when workers went on strike, we would call up and see what was going on, see how we can help. So we'd call up to the company and we'd say, you know, "Why are you cutting back on healthcare for your workers?" "Well, we don't make that decision. It's owned by somebody else." Call up somebody else. "Well, we're owned by somebody..." You know how it is. It's just huge-

   4. NANarrator5:39

      Uh-huh.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:39

      ... these huge conglomerates own the bloody world. And these guys don't give a damn about the needs of working people. So I would say that the economy becomes less and less personal. "I have no res- you're my worker. I have no care about you 'cause right now I'm owned by an international who doesn't know that you exist." And there's-

   6. NANarrator5:56

      And there's also a diffusion of responsibility.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:58

      Absolutely.

   8. NANarrator5:58

      Just it's not even in your hands.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:59

      Exactly. So the b- local boss might say, "Hey, listen, I'm really sorry, but I didn't have any decision in here."

   10. NANarrator6:04

       Right. Right, right. "There's nothing I can do."

4. 6:06 – 7:12

   Healthcare as a profit engine: denial incentives and public outrage

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:06

      "Nothing I can do."Um, so I add all of that up and you have a ... And then just look at other things. I mean, you tell me, tell me about the healthcare system. Does anybody in America think this healthcare system is working?

   2. BSBernie Sanders6:19

      Well, you could tell by the assassination, when the assassination of the United Healthcare guy.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:25

      Yeah.

   4. BSBernie Sanders6:25

      When that- when that happened, there, there was people celebrating. When is there ever someone gets assassinated-

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:31

      Right.

   6. BSBernie Sanders6:32

      ... on the streets of New York City and people celebrate?

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:34

      Right. That's terrible. It's terrible. But it does speak to how people feel about insurance companies.

   8. BSBernie Sanders6:39

      Right. Well, and I think rightly so-

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:41

      Right.

   10. BSBernie Sanders6:42

       ... because it's not what you're paying for. What you're paying for is you're hoping that you never get sick, but if you pay your insurance, you will be covered. What they're trying to do is make it as difficult as possible for you to get money from them.

   11. JRJoe Rogan6:56

       You got it. That's ... The more money, the more I can deny you-

   12. BSBernie Sanders6:59

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:59

       ... the more money I make.

   14. BSBernie Sanders7:00

       Right. And that's the bottom line. And when you're dealing with these enormous corporations, like we're talking about, this diffusion of responsibility, the people that are doing it, it's like, "This is what I have to do. This is my job." And they don't even think about it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:11

       Right. Exactly.

5. 7:12 – 10:54

   Deindustrialization and the Detroit warning: what corporate flight destroys

   1. BSBernie Sanders7:12

      And this all started when? Like when d- So Michael Moore had that brilliant documentary, Roger and Me.

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:19

      Yeah. Yeah.

   3. BSBernie Sanders7:19

      Love that documentary.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:19

      I know Mike. Michael's a good friend. Yeah.

   5. BSBernie Sanders7:21

      Uh, he's a great guy. That- that documentary is fantastic. And it, it shows the impact of a corporation taking all their factories, moving them away (snaps fingers) like that with no warning, no recourse, nothing anybody can do. Decimates, uh, the- the- i- d- basically all of Detroit.

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:41

      That's right. D- People don't know this.

   7. BSBernie Sanders7:44

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:44

      But if my memory is correct, Detroit used to be, in the '50s-

   9. BSBernie Sanders7:48

      Third richest city in the world.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:50

       You got it.

   11. BSBernie Sanders7:50

       Yes. Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:51

       And now-

   13. BSBernie Sanders7:52

       We've talked about it multiple times.

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:53

       Yeah.

   15. BSBernie Sanders7:53

       It's disgusting.

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:54

       Right.

   17. BSBernie Sanders7:55

       And especially me, as someone who loves American automobiles, I'm a, I'm a big fan of what Detroit made during that time. And to see what happened to Detroit now. The last time I was in Detroit, it actually seems to be picking up. There's a lot of, uh, small businesses-

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:11

       Yup.

   19. BSBernie Sanders8:11

       ... and a lot of artists and a lot of people that are proud to ... Like Shinola, companies like that. Proud to be in Detroit. But there's just so many abandoned buildings, it's- it's insane. You can buy a house there for 500 bucks.

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       That's right.

   21. BSBernie Sanders8:24

       It's really crazy. Like, s- uh, giant factories where every window is smashed, all the pipes have been torn out, and it's just this hulking monument.

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:32

       And it's not just Detroit.

   23. BSBernie Sanders8:34

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       I mean, there are other communities, corporations say, "Hey." I mean, and it- it's-

   25. BSBernie Sanders8:39

       That path is unsustainable, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:41

       I think so.

   27. BSBernie Sanders8:42

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       I mean, and I ... Look, if we are ... A- and again, gets back to what we want as a nation, but you had corporations saying, "Hey." Back then, not now, "I could pay workers in China 25 cents an hour. Why the hell do I want to hire you for," what it was then, "five bucks an hour?" Or whatever was then.

   29. BSBernie Sanders8:56

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:57

       And I'll never forget, Joe, uh, early on when I was elected to Congress, this was when we had the NAFTA agreement, I went to, uh, the Maquiladora area. You know what that is? In, uh-
6. 10:54 – 12:21

   Concentrated ownership and Wall Street’s grip: BlackRock/Vanguard/State Street

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:54

      You do the right thing by workers, all right? That's a perfect example. So, you know, you got Wall Street. Here's a- here's a fact. When we talk about ... It- it's not only income and wealth inequality that bothers me, it's concentration of ownership. So right now in America, in virtually every sector of our economy, whether it's agriculture, transportation, financial services, whatever, you got a handful of giant multinationals controlling that sector. But here's another amazing fact. Who do you think owns these corporations? You know, you remember there was a day where somebody actually owned General Motors or they owned Ford.

   2. BSBernie Sanders11:31

      Hm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:32

      They're now owned by Wall Street firms. You got three Wall Street investment firms, BlackRock. You're familiar with BlackRock, they're giant.

   4. BSBernie Sanders11:39

      Vanguard and State Street.

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:40

      Exactly.

   6. BSBernie Sanders11:40

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:41

      Check it out on Google. They are-

   8. BSBernie Sanders11:43

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:43

      ... combined, the three of them combined are the major stockholders of 95% of American corporations. How's that?

   10. BSBernie Sanders11:49

       That's not good.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:50

       That's power.

   12. BSBernie Sanders11:51

       Right. How did that start and what could have been done to stop that from happening?

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:56

       Well, I think it's, it- it's, again, it's greed. These guys are smart, they're hardworking, they're motivated. They want more and more. So if I can buy this, I can buy this, I can sell this, I can-

   14. BSBernie Sanders12:06

       Right. But they're all doing it within the law, right?

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:08

       Yeah. Yeah. But-

   16. BSBernie Sanders12:09

       Right. Which is, is that the problem?

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:11

       Yeah. But who makes that law?

   18. BSBernie Sanders12:13

       They do.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:14

       Now, I want to go to another issue-

   20. BSBernie Sanders12:15

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:16

       ... which is very rarely discussed. All right?

   22. BSBernie Sanders12:19

       Okay.

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:19

       You ready for it?

   24. BSBernie Sanders12:19

       I'm ready.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:20

       All right. Hang on.

   26. BSBernie Sanders12:20

       Okay.

7. 12:21 – 19:06

   Money in politics: Citizens United, billionaires, and primary threats (both parties)

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:21

      Here we go. And is, the, the problem I think that we face as a country is not just economic disparities and all the stuff that we're talking about, rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, it is political power. Right now, and I doubt that there are many Americans, whether you're a progressive as I am or a right-wing Republican, I don't think people can disagree that we have a corrupt campaign finance system. Argue with me. You agree?

   2. BSBernie Sanders12:47

      No, I agree with you. Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:49

      Okay. All right. So let me talk about what it means.

   4. BSBernie Sanders12:51

      Okay.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:53

      As a result of the Citizens United Supreme Court decision, I think that's 15, 16 years old, what it says is: you're a billionaire, you have now the constitutional right because your money is your freedom of expression. Right? So you don't like Bernie Sanders? You can put millions or hundreds of millions of dollars into a campaign and express your view about how terrible Bernie Sanders is-

   6. BSBernie Sanders13:19

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:19

      ... and you can buy that election, right?

   8. BSBernie Sanders13:20

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:20

      That's your constitutional right. I think that's probably the worst decision that the Supreme Court has ever made. So what is the result of that decision? The result of that decision, let's take us to where we are today, is that Elon Musk, and I know Elon was on your show, and he's here at Austin, huh?

   10. BSBernie Sanders13:38

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:38

       Okay. And I've, we could talk about Elon, but he spent $270 million to elect Trump as president. Okay? I think that's absurd, that any one person-

   12. BSBernie Sanders13:49

       What's the most someone donated towards the Harris campaign?

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:53

       Mm, they spent a lot of money on Harris as well.

   14. BSBernie Sanders13:55

       They spent $1.5 billion-

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:57

       Combined.

   16. BSBernie Sanders13:57

       ... just over the course of a couple of months.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:59

       You got it. All right. Let me talk about it. So-

   18. BSBernie Sanders14:00

       Yeah, let's please talk about that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:00

       ... I'm not here just to say it's Republican. That's my point here.

   20. BSBernie Sanders14:03

       Right.

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       Okay. So Musk spends that money, and what's his reward? He becomes the most powerful person in government for three or four months. Okay, fine. But what you have right now, and I just saw this the other day. You are a Republican member of Congress, okay? And you say, you know, there's a reconciliation bill, which we can talk about in a minute, that this is Trump's big, bad, big, beautiful bill that's coming up. We're literally on the floor of the Senate s- very shortly. So let's say you're a Republican representing a low income district, and you say, "You know, you know, I g- I got a lot of people on Medicaid in my district, and kids can't get to college, and I worry about food programs. I don't think it's a good idea to give tax breaks to billionaires and cut back on Medicaid." You make that announcement today. What happens to you? Wh-

   22. BSBernie Sanders14:51

       It's over. You get attacked.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:53

       (laughs) You're finished.

   24. BSBernie Sanders14:54

       The swarm comes for you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan14:55

       You got it.

   26. BSBernie Sanders14:56

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:56

       It's not a swarm. It's, it's-

   28. BSBernie Sanders14:57

       It's, the problem is it's already been established, right? That these laws have been established. The power has been given to these people. The money has started flowing, and it's been flowing for a long time now. And this is the, the issue with starting something that you can't stop.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       Well, you can stop it.

   30. BSBernie Sanders15:12

       You can stop it.
8. 19:06 – 21:24

   Gaza, U.S. military aid, and the political cost of dissent

   1. BSBernie Sanders19:06

      Okay.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:06

      And I don't, I don't even know your views on this, so you may disagree with me. You know, Israel was attacked by Hamas, and Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization. They killed 1,200 people, which in a small country like Israel is a lot of people. Terrible, terrible attack. It's a war crime. Israel had a right, in my view, to defend itself. But the Netanyahu government did not have a right to kill 52,000 people in Gaza, wound over, uh, well over 100,000, and right now as we speak, Joe, children are starving to death because of Israel's-

   3. BSBernie Sanders19:43

      Blockades.

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:44

      Blockades, yeah.

   5. BSBernie Sanders19:44

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:45

      Starving to death. And I brought forth, uh, two resolutions, uh, which basically were very simple. A- and they said, uh, no more US military aid, uh, to, uh, Israel under these conditions. One vote got 15 votes in the Senate and w- the other one got 16. Do you think that members of the Senate do not know what's going on in Gaza? The kids are starving to death. The innocent people are being shot down right and left. They know it. Why do you think I couldn't get more votes?

   7. BSBernie Sanders20:17

      They wouldn't vote against Israel.

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:18

      Right. And why-

   9. BSBernie Sanders20:19

      It's political suicide.

   10. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       That... Now you're talking.

   11. BSBernie Sanders20:21

       Right.

   12. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       All right. So y- in the Republican side, you have moneyed interests saying, "You speak up against Trump, you're outta here." In the Democratic side, "You speak up against the Netanyahu government, you're outta here as well." And they have been successful. You have super PACs like APAC spending a fortune. You stand d- and they have already knocked off a number of members of Con- good members of Congress, and they will do it again. So, all I'm saying is, you got a corrupt campaign finance system on both sides, which is rejecting the will of the American people and end up supporting powerful special interests. And if we do not get a handle on that issue, I worry very much about the future of American democracy.

   13. BSBernie Sanders21:03

       Are you gonna run for president again?

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:05

       I am 83 years of age.

   15. BSBernie Sanders21:07

       That's what I'm saying. (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan21:09

       Yeah, well, you know, I'm not sure the American people will be too enthusiastic on somebody who's 180-

   17. BSBernie Sanders21:12

       You're still very with it.

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:14

       Thank you. (laughs)

   19. BSBernie Sanders21:16

       You are.

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:17

       Well, you know.

   21. BSBernie Sanders21:17

       I mean, you're a couple years older than Biden.

   22. JRJoe Rogan21:20

       Yeah.

   23. BSBernie Sanders21:20

       Right? Think of that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       Yeah.

   25. BSBernie Sanders21:22

       You could be off a lot worse.

   26. JRJoe Rogan21:23

       Yes, yes.

   27. BSBernie Sanders21:24

       Yeah.

9. 21:24 – 29:41

   Fighting Oligarchy Tour and the policy vision: healthcare, education, childcare, and debt

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:24

      All right. Um, so, uh, we have been running around the country doing what we call a Fighting Oligarchy Tour, which is like why I'm here in Texas. We were in Fort Worth last night and had good turnout. And I think, interestingly enough, Joe, i- it's not most of the people. We know the people who come out to our rallies, you know, we have a big list of millions of people. But a lot of people are coming to our rallies that we don't know. And I think we know that some of them are Republicans and some of them are independents. Many of them are independents. Because I think across the board, uh, there is growing dissatisfaction with the current politics in America, both parties. And people want a new vision for America, which is also something we don't talk a whole lot about. So, you know, the issues that we talk about is, in the richest country on Earth, why don't we have the best healthcare system in the world? Why do we have 85 million people who are uninsured or underinsured? And as you were mentioning a moment ago, I mean, it deals with the insurance companies and the drug companies. And the function of the current healthcare system is to make these guys very rich. And, and it works. They make zillions of dollars. And every place you go, in my state the cost of healthcare has gone up this year like 10, 15%. People can't afford it. Uh, and we lose thousands of people every year. People get sick. They can't afford to go to the doctor, they die. Uh, so, you know, one of the fights that I hope we can win is to have the United States join every other major country on Earth and guarantee healthcare to all people, uh, as a human right.

   2. BSBernie Sanders23:07

      Well, we've talked about that a lot on this show, that if you view this country as a community, most important thing is to protect the most vulnerable members of your community. Period, right?

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:18

      I agree.

   4. BSBernie Sanders23:18

      And if we, uh, we spend insane amounts of money on all sorts of things that people don't agree with. And I think generally most people would agree on some sort of a national healthcare system.

   5. JRJoe Rogan23:29

      They do.

   6. BSBernie Sanders23:30

      Most people. Like, there's, there's, there's concepts of socialism that everyone agrees with. One of them is the fire department.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:37

      Right.

   8. BSBernie Sanders23:38

      Right? Everyone thinks that everyone, every citizen should have access, the same equal access to the fire department, and we all pay into that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:46

      That's right.

   10. BSBernie Sanders23:47

       And we all believe in education. We all believe that there should be free public education.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:53

       That's right.

   12. BSBernie Sanders23:53

       And most people believe that the university system should also be funded. It would b- benefit everyone.

   13. JRJoe Rogan24:00

       You got it.

   14. BSBernie Sanders24:00

       It would benefit everyone to have more educated people that are doing better in the world. You'd have better GDP, you'd have more-

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:06

       Sure, that is-

   16. BSBernie Sanders24:06

       ... more successful people.

   17. JRJoe Rogan24:07

       ... absolutely right.

   18. BSBernie Sanders24:08

       If you wanna make America great again, less losers.

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:10

       (laughs)

   20. BSBernie Sanders24:10

       How do you make less losers? Don't stack the deck against them. You know, one of the first things that you'd have to do is figure out why these communities and these cities have been the exact same way for decade after decade.... back to Jim Crow and the red line laws and all these diff- Why is nothing being done to fix that or to, to correct that problem? And it becomes this political beach ball that they just bounce around the air at a concert, you know? And everybody... It's like there's certain things that just keep coming up that make you just, just go, "Well, how are we still talking about gay marriage?" How, how is that still coming up? And it's like, poof, throw it up in the air.

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:46

       Okay. All right. Let me get back to that. But I wanna say-

   22. BSBernie Sanders24:48

       There's a bunch of these things, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan24:49

       Yeah. All right. The first point you made, you wanna make America great, right, you have the best-

   24. BSBernie Sanders24:53

       Yeah, less losers.

   25. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       ... have, have the best-educated workforce in the world. How's that?

   26. BSBernie Sanders24:56

       Yes. Yes.

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:56

       Radical idea?

   28. BSBernie Sanders24:57

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:57

       I don't think so.

   30. BSBernie Sanders24:58

       Right.
10. 29:41 – 41:14

    If Sanders had won: public election funding, taxing the ultra-wealthy, and climate disagreement

    1. BSBernie Sanders29:41

       Right. Of course. Yeah. But there's, there's... There's so many different... What would you have done... Like, imagine that you hadn't gotten derailed and they hadn't, uh, conspired against you and y- you actually became the Democratic candidate for president and you won. What would you have done differently?

    2. JRJoe Rogan30:02

       Okay. How many hours do we have? (laughs)

    3. BSBernie Sanders30:04

       We got all the time in the world, Bernie.

    4. JRJoe Rogan30:07

       I know. I know.

    5. BSBernie Sanders30:09

       What would you have done first day in office?

    6. JRJoe Rogan30:11

       Well, it's not just the first day in office. I would have dealt with this campaign finance reform issue.

    7. BSBernie Sanders30:16

       Right.

    8. JRJoe Rogan30:16

       Uh, and there are ways that you can get around that Supreme Court decision.

    9. BSBernie Sanders30:20

       How do you do that?

    10. JRJoe Rogan30:21

        Uh, you move toward public funding of elections, which says...... that, "Joe, you wanna run against me? That's great. Uh, but you're not gonna get Super PAC money. Uh, we're gonna publicly fund you. You know, you, you, uh, get 1,500 signatures that says you're a serious candidate, you'll get a certain amount of money to run for office." So you and I would be on-

    11. BSBernie Sanders30:45

        So funded by the government?

    12. JRJoe Rogan30:46

        Yes, absolutely. Rather than-

    13. BSBernie Sanders30:47

        So someone running for president funded by the current president? (laughs)

    14. JRJoe Rogan30:53

        (laughs) Well, not the current president.

    15. BSBernie Sanders30:54

        No, but the current government.

    16. JRJoe Rogan30:56

        Funded by Congress. And people say-

    17. BSBernie Sanders30:56

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan30:57

        ... "Oh, taxpayer dollars are going to..." But that makes a lot more sense than having billionaires fund elections, which is what you got right now. So that's the more you got-

    19. BSBernie Sanders31:03

        So you think there should be one, you get a certain number, you just get a certain allotted amount of money that you could use for your campaign?

    20. JRJoe Rogan31:09

        Right. And-

    21. BSBernie Sanders31:09

        And everybody gets the same amount?

    22. JRJoe Rogan31:10

        That exists in some places right now.

    23. BSBernie Sanders31:12

        Does it? Where?

    24. JRJoe Rogan31:12

        Yeah. In New York City right now.

    25. BSBernie Sanders31:13

        Oh, in New York City. Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan31:15

        And other places as well.

    27. BSBernie Sanders31:16

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan31:16

        So if you agree, you know, you're gonna raise y- y- y- y- y- you're on- you're not gonna raise private money, you go the public route, uh, it exists in a number of communities. And I think that is-

    29. BSBernie Sanders31:26

        Did you watch the New York City, uh, debates? The mayor debates?

    30. JRJoe Rogan31:29

        I heard 'em. I'm in-
11. 41:14 – 1:01:23

    AI/robotics and the future of work: 32-hour week, displacement, and human meaning

    1. JRJoe Rogan41:14

       And that is artificial intelligence and robotics.

    2. BSBernie Sanders41:18

       Automation.

    3. JRJoe Rogan41:18

       Automation.

    4. BSBernie Sanders41:19

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan41:19

       Okay. So-

    6. BSBernie Sanders41:20

       Giant issue.

    7. JRJoe Rogan41:21

       Huge issue. All right. So let's back it up. Um, Americans are angry, and one of the reasons they are angry is that over the last, uh... I'll just give you one fact here. The last 52 years, you and I understand, everybody in the world understands, there's been a huge explosion in technology, correct?

    8. BSBernie Sanders41:45

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan41:46

       What we're doing today never could have happened 50 years ago. Factories far more automated, offices far more automated. I became mayor of Burlington, Vermont, in 1981. There was not a computer in the building, okay? So that's-

    10. BSBernie Sanders42:01

        By the way, great town.

    11. JRJoe Rogan42:02

        It is a great town. Uh, in any case, an explosion of technology, significant increase in worker productivity, right? We're talking to millions of people now. Never could have happened before, right? That's true. Workers are producing a lot more. Tell me, how are real inflation accounted for wages been over the last 52 years with all of that increase in worker productivity? Workers doing a lot better?

    12. BSBernie Sanders42:26

        Not so good.

    13. JRJoe Rogan42:27

        Not so good, no.

    14. BSBernie Sanders42:28

        No.

    15. JRJoe Rogan42:28

        In fact, there are studies out there that suggest in real inflation accounted for dollars, wages are actually lower now than they were 52 years ago, okay? And during that same period is a massive transfer of wealth from the bottom 90% to the top 1%. So, that's what technology has done over the last 50 years. That does not...I d- there was a study, I don't know if you saw this, blew me away. (smacks lips) I can't remember who did it, Kaiser? Some reputable guy, people did it. (smacks lips) This is what they said. They do a poll to the American people and they say, "Uh, Americans, do you think you are better off today than somebody in your situation," you know, middle class, upper, whatever you may be, "was, uh, 40 years ago?" Okay? "Are you better off today than somebody in your circumstance would have been 40 years ago?" What was the answer? What do you think?

    16. BSBernie Sanders43:20

        No. Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan43:21

        And what the answer was... And this is, uh... And we got to deal with this one. This is big. The answer was, you know, there were a number of people who said, "Hey, look, I got a cellphone. It's great. I got a big screen TV."

    18. BSBernie Sanders43:30

        Right.

    19. JRJoe Rogan43:30

        "It's great. I can fly all over the world. It's great. I l- I get sick, I get treatment now that I never could have had 40 years ago." Right?

    20. BSBernie Sanders43:37

        Those are facts.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:38

        All really positive developments. But on average, most people said, "I th- I, I think the situation is worse today than it was 40 years ago." And that is what we got to deal with. So you can have all the technology in the world-

    22. BSBernie Sanders43:51

        Right.

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:51

        ... what the hell does it mean if your life is not improving? In fact, in many ways, getting worse.

    24. BSBernie Sanders43:56

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:56

        All right.

    26. BSBernie Sanders43:56

        Well, I, uh, uh, again, we'll go back to polls again, because I, I don't necessarily believe that polls are totally accurate. But I, I do think that the, the, the issue with it being virtually impossible for one person to sustain the entire family these days, one worker, the father or the mother, whoever it is, to sustain the entire f- that's a, that's a giant issue. All these issues, uh, when it comes to labor, when it comes to, uh, minimum wage, I think you and I are in agreement of all the, on all these. I think, uh, the minimum wage in this country is ridiculous.

    27. JRJoe Rogan44:31

        Right.

    28. BSBernie Sanders44:31

        I mean, to... $7? What?

    29. JRJoe Rogan44:34

        It's insane.

    30. BSBernie Sanders44:34

        It's insane. How do you live off $7? You go to Jimmy John's, you get a sub.
12. 1:01:23 – 1:37:37

    Health, food systems, and corporate manipulation: labeling, dyes, and regenerative farming

    1. BSBernie Sanders1:01:23

       Also, taking toxic food, uh, out-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:01:24

       Exactly. Exactly.

    3. BSBernie Sanders1:01:26

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:01:26

       You know, I don't, uh, you know, I don't, th- ... You know, I've known, uh, uh, Bobby Kennedy for a long time. And, you know, he and I have (laughs) gone a, a, a in different directions politically. But his ... The point about health, food, food-

    5. BSBernie Sanders1:01:41

       We spend the most, and we're the sickest.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       Absolutely. Absolutely. And food is one of the... Uh, when I was chairman of the committee, we worked very hard to get serious labeling. You know, some kid drinks a ... Mom buys a bottle of Coca-Cola for the kid. There's like, what, 10 teaspoons of sugar in that, that product.

    7. BSBernie Sanders1:01:58

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:58

       You know? I don't think people know that, and we tried to get labeling. Maybe that will happen now. Uh, but-

    9. BSBernie Sanders1:02:03

       People also weren't aware until the, like the last 20 years what the consequences of that sugar is.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:09

        Abso- That's right. Absolutely. I mean-

    11. BSBernie Sanders1:02:10

        And also because of money.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:11

        You got it.

    13. BSBernie Sanders1:02:12

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:02:12

        I mean, you-

    15. BSBernie Sanders1:02:12

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:02:13

        Don't get me going on that one. I mean, you know-

    17. BSBernie Sanders1:02:14

        Let's go.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:15

        Yeah. (laughs)

    19. BSBernie Sanders1:02:15

        I'll get you going, come on. (laughs)

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:16

        All right. You know, y- you would think, how hard is it to say, if you have a bottle of soda or you have a, a food product, "Tell people in English what is in the damn product," right?

    21. BSBernie Sanders1:02:28

        Right.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:28

        Do you think anyone there, uh, right now they have any grams? Do you think anybody in America knows what the hell a gram is? I mean, it just ... That's how ridiculous it is. So I want parents to know that if they get the food that they're serving their kid could lead to obesity, which is an epidemic in America. Could lead to diabetes, which is an epidemic, a terrible illness, costing us hundreds of billions of dollars. So you're absolutely right.

    23. BSBernie Sanders1:02:54

        Right.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:55

        All right? And, and then that ties into rebuilding family-based agriculture in America. Wouldn't it be nice?

    25. BSBernie Sanders1:03:00

        Yes.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:03:01

        In my state of Vermont, all over this country, family farmers are, you know, they're just being driven off of the land. And that to me is a real tragedy, because ... And again, Vermont is one of the most rural states in America. Growing up, if you talk to people who grew up on farms, they say, "You know, Bernie, that was a pretty good way of life." And we're losing that. So how do you create an economy in which we once again put an emphasis on family-based agriculture, not corporate agriculture? Family farmers who are growing good, in many cases, organic food for our kids, rather than corporate-

    27. BSBernie Sanders1:03:35

        Regenerative.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:03:36

        Absol-

    29. BSBernie Sanders1:03:36

        Regenerative agriculture.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:36

        You got it.

Episode duration: 1:51:58