EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,041 words- 0:00 – 0:57
Lukas Nelson earns his own spotlight: legacy, skepticism, and proving it live
- NANarrator
(drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (rock music plays) We're up. Lucas, what's up?
- LNLukas Nelson
Hey, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to talk to you, man. Thanks for being here.
- LNLukas Nelson
Good to be here. Yeah, I appreciate you having me.
- JRJoe Rogan
I gotta tell you, you know, when I heard Willie Nelson's kid-
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... plays music, there's a thing that you always do, and I, I have to admit it. You do it, like, when the son of a great man, you always assume, "Well-"
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... he's probably mediocre." You know what I mean? And then you performed at McConaughey's ... that charity function thing, and you fucking killed it, man. You blew me away.
- LNLukas Nelson
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was incredible, and I was like, "Wow." It was really cool to see, man. It was really exciting. It was really fun.
- LNLukas Nelson
Well, I appreciate that, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
You were the highlight of the night, man. You really were.
- 0:57 – 2:32
Learning music to get closer to Willie: first song at 11 and early mentorship
- LNLukas Nelson
It's moments like those where I started to gain confidence, you know. I'd have, over the years, I'd go out and play, and I'd play my songs that I've written, and, I mean, I'd get crowds that would do that, you know. And so that gave me the confidence to keep going. And it ... and, and, I first started playing music in order to get closer to my father.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- LNLukas Nelson
You know what I mean? So I, I, I ... he would be gone all the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LNLukas Nelson
And I'd be missing him. And, uh, and so, in order to get close to him, I figured I, I need to speak the same musical language. And, uh, and so I learned young, and I wrote a song young, uh, that's on the new album, actually, I got. It's called You Were It. It's the first song I ever wrote when I was 11.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- LNLukas Nelson
And my dad loved it so much that he covered it at the time, and he put it out on his album back in 2004, called It Always Will Be. The, the album was called It Always Will Be, and that gave me the confidence at a young age. Kris Kristofferson came up to me, and he's like, "Man, you don't have a choice but to be a songwriter."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- LNLukas Nelson
And so I had all this inspiration at a young age. Kind of like an athlete at a certain point, you kind of have to look at, like, oh, well, if I have a talent at this, I have opp- like, I have connections in the industry, I need to work like I was gonna go to the Olympics on this, because it's something that I can do that will make it so that I never have to rely on my family or my father for anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LNLukas Nelson
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 2:32 – 4:27
Identity, meaning, and the burden/blessing of a famous parent
- LNLukas Nelson
I w- My whole goal in life is to discover who I am as an individual, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that, uh, part of the difficulty of growing up with an incredibly famous father?
- LNLukas Nelson
I think the ... You know, Viktor Frankl has a, um, a book, a very famous book called Man's Search for Meaning.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- LNLukas Nelson
And it's about Auschwitz, and he was an Auschwitz survivor, and he wrote about what was the common denominator in terms of people who persevered and survived in these camps, and dignity and meaning were the common denominators, generally. And so finding who you ... what you mean in this life, to yourself, it doesn't have to mean anything to anyone else, and I think that's where, for me, I've lived my whole life trying to discover who I meant to myself so that, at the moment of my death, I can look back and say, "I did something that I enjoyed, that was meaningful, that gave me a sense of purpose."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm. Yeah, the, the ... There's a ... both a blessing and a burden to, uh, being the child of someone-
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... who's incredibly famous at a thing that you're trying to do.
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm. Sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? Like, there's, there's a lot of sons of athletes, for instance-
- LNLukas Nelson
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that, uh, live in their father's shadow, and very few of them ever rise to the level that their father was at.
- LNLukas Nelson
Sure. I think, for me, I was never trying to be as great as him. I was only trying to be close to him, because more than anything, my father's a great human being. He's a well-rounded, kind, empathetic human, and, uh, I am ... I, I, I'm truly grateful to be his and my mother's son. Uh, you know, because I have a good family, I'm lucky, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome.
- 4:27 – 7:29
Family perspective, loss, and a mother’s lesson on letting Willie go to work
- LNLukas Nelson
I have ... You know, I have a good, good parents. So what I was trying to do was just be closer to him, and, you know, as a little kid, you know, the, the best thing my mom ever did was, when I was like ... Earlier, I was probably five or six years old and my brother had just passed away, not too, uh, long before this, actually, and I would cry every time my dad would leave, you know? And my mom sat me down one time и said, "It tears him apart when you cry like this, because he doesn't want to leave. He's going out there, he's making people happy, he's giving people joy, and he's doing what he came here on this earth to do, and he's supporting this family." And so the support that my mother had for him, at that moment, I never cried again. I was able to let go of that idea and then, just from that point on, work towards creating what would make me happy in my life and give me the same joy, and then-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
... give ... and be able to take care of a family, hopefully. You know, my ... one of my greatest sources of pride is that I haven't had to ask my parents for anything. I bought my own house. I bought my ... You know, I, I went and did Star Is Born, and I got ... You know, I mean, I, I've been able to make myself a living, and I think that makes my parents proud, it makes my dad proud, and that's what I've always wanted to do. That's been my whole ... My whole life is wanting to make them proud. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome. Well, it's a great motivation, you know, for sure, when, especially when you have great parents that, that try to make them proud of you.
- LNLukas Nelson
I'm lucky in that way, you know? I know a lot of people who have broken homes and grew up ... And, and even-I caught Dad at a good time. I mean, my dad was 55 or so when he had me, you know, and so he had already been through a lot of his demons and gotten through them and faced them, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
... and was still going through them at the time that I was born. But he had come out of, you know, a life of habit and sort of formed the ones that would take him at that point to where he is now at 92 years old, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- LNLukas Nelson
And so I got a good version of Dad, uh, you know, who had grown since, you know. And so, man, I, you know, I'm the luckiest guy in the world. I feel like, uh, I, you know, I was able to be exposed to a lot of great music, a lot of great mentors, you know, in my life. And, uh, and I'm also lucky, uh, that I, at, at a young age, I'm grateful to my younger child, to the, myself as a young child, for having the wisdom to say, "All right, work hard now. Forget about parties. Forget about hanging out. Work hard eight hours, 10 hours a day. Practice your guitar. Write all the time. Sing all the time so that when you get to a certain point in life, you'll have something to show for it, you know, something that you-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
"... can leave behind that's yours." Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That's awesome, man. That, you know, that's what most people in this life want. They want a purpose.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, they want something that means something both to them and to other people.
- LNLukas Nelson
Exactly. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's hard to find.
- 7:29 – 9:48
Sobriety, meditation, and mushrooms as a “check-in” tool
- LNLukas Nelson
It's hard to find a purpose, you know. I, I, that is something that I've always had growing up, and I think it's because I was, you know, again, I'm grateful to that younger kid. Sometimes I, I feel like he's wiser than I am now, (laughs) you know. That younger self is, like, uh, almost, um, you know, I, I... Now, and now that I'm sober, I mean, I quit smoking weed. I quit drinking, and, and, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
When did you do all that?
- LNLukas Nelson
Really? Around the pandemic.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- LNLukas Nelson
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's usually when a lot of people started.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, I went-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- LNLukas Nelson
... the opposite way. I started meditating twice a day, you know. The only thing I'll do now is mushrooms every once in a while to check in with myself and, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
... just kind of make sure that I'm... You know, I feel like mushrooms is like taking a nice good ho- hose to your soul and just kind of like, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Clean out all the bullshit.
- LNLukas Nelson
Clean out all the bullshit, and like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
... you know, I feel like, you know. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
They shou- they should be legal.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, 100%.
- JRJoe Rogan
I really, if I could talk Trump into one thing, (laughs) that might be the one thing. I've, uh, you know, I had this conversation with Paul Stamets the other day.
- LNLukas Nelson
I love Paul Stamets.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's amazing.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, he's great. I just saw him at the, uh, Dead show, uh, the Sphere show-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah?
- LNLukas Nelson
... about a month or so ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
Have you been to his place? He invited me to his-
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- LNLukas Nelson
... place up there. It's s- supposed to be amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was just reading an email from him today, inviting me-
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... to his place.
- 9:48 – 11:13
Buddhist temple upbringing and staying present amid modern manipulation
- LNLukas Nelson
You know, and it's just a matter of, yeah, I mean, it is sort of a cliché. Um, I s- I read the, uh, The Power of Now, which is Eckhart Tolle-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
... when I was like 13. I used... I, I went to school next to a Buddhist temple, and so I grew up with my dad teaching me the Lord's Prayer that I'd say every night, and then I'd go to this Buddhist temple and hang with these monks, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, yeah, in, in-
- JRJoe Rogan
Where was that?
- LNLukas Nelson
... Maui. I grew up part time in Austin. I was born in Austin, and I was in Maui, and so I-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a Buddhist temple in Maui?
- LNLukas Nelson
There was a Buddhist temple right near where I was going to school at the time, so after school every day I'd sit with these monks. And just the vibe of that is, is powerful, the chanting, the energy around that, you know, the presence though that they have are just, you know, their whole goal obviously is to just, you know, be purely present.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
And, uh, and so while that sounds like a cliché, I, I truly believe that that's an important thing, you know, to, to let go of the, the, the battle of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
... positive and negative that in the mental space that's all that exists is duality, you know. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, to find the, a true path, you have to avoid being pushed and pulled in a bunch of directions that are-
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... totally unnecessary.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And sometimes you get sort of preoccupied or captivated-
- LNLukas Nelson
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
... by the push and the pull of bullshit.
- 11:13 – 15:57
Live performance: “Turn Off the News and Build a Garden” + local community focus
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm. Well, and we're, we're, we, there is a manipulation that happens, um, on purpose. I have a song called Turn Off the News and Build a Garden.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
You ever, did you ever hear that song?
- JRJoe Rogan
It's good advice. No, I haven't heard that one.
- LNLukas Nelson
You want me to play it for you?
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck yeah. Yeah, play it.
- LNLukas Nelson
All right. This is a song called Turn Off the News and Build a Garden.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- LNLukas Nelson
And I wrote it because-
- JRJoe Rogan
Because it's great advice.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, and I just, I was just... The, the news cycle, I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- LNLukas Nelson
... there's just, there's a difference between being informed and being constantly captured by this cycle.
- JRJoe Rogan
Overwhelmed.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yes. Let me see. Got to tune for all you listeners here. << I believe that every heart is kind.Some are just a little underused. Hatred is a symptom of the times. Lost in these uneducated blues. I just wanna love you while I can. All these other thoughts have me confused. I don't need to try to understand. Maybe I'll turn off the fucking news. Turn off the news and build a garden, just my neighborhood and me. We might feel a bit less hardened. We might feel a bit more free. Turn off the news and raise the kids. Give them something to believe in. Teach them how to be good people. Give them hope that they can see. Hope that they can see. Turn off the news and build a garden with me.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, so I- I- you know, I- I've always felt that way, and I think that there's... Action is so important, being a part of your community, being a part of decisions that are made. I think that's huge. I think local communities are really important. I think local town meetings, understanding where you're going in this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
... you know, and, and, and understanding where your neighborhood is going, and getting to know your neighbors, because it's really hard to... It's hard to have any hatred when you understand and know your neighbor, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
And you know the people that are around you, and know, uh, you know? And so I think that, yeah, that's kinda where I come from. I just think, like, (sighs) you know, it's important to, to get out there and, and I put my... I usually try not to stand on soapboxes though, you know, man. I put... If I have something to say, I'll put it in my music, you know, and I'll, and I'll put it out there, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's the best way to get it to people anyway.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know?
- LNLukas Nelson
Look at Bob Dylan-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
... Masters of War. I mean, that's the military industrial complex right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
It's an incredible song. Pawn, only a pawn in their game-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 15:57 – 23:54
Social media toxicity, misinformation, and staying flexible in opinions
- JRJoe Rogan
But now, I think the, the real problem that people have today is social media. And, uh-
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, I never... Uh, I very r- if I post things, I just post them and then get out of there. I don't read anything, and I very rarely read social media anymore. And since making that decision to kind of stay away from it, I think occasionally I have to dip in just to see what, what's... 'Cause I'm a comedian, it's part of the problem.
- LNLukas Nelson
Sure, you gotta know what's going on.
- JRJoe Rogan
I, I need to know what people are doing, w- why everyone's so mad, what's happening.
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But, um, there's too many people that are on it all day long, and I think it's poison, I really do. I think it's bad for your mind. I think it, it, it, uh, generally attracts negativity. I think most of the stuff that people post is negative.
- LNLukas Nelson
Hm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're complaining all the time, and, and, and then that gets into your mind and that gets into your, whatever, you know, your, your headset is, your headspace. And then you start thinking the way these people are thinking, and...
- LNLukas Nelson
I, I like to be informed on what I'm talking about, you know, I really do, and that takes a lot of time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
It's not something that I can look at something online that comes up and just have an immediate opinion on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- LNLukas Nelson
And I think that really I'm just... Like, I, I don't know where I stand on half the issues that are out there because I'm s- I'm v- I- You know, I see a lot of... I have to sift through most of the bullshit-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
... to find, like... So really, where it ends up happening is, is that by the time I get to the voting booth, I'm hoping that I'm properly informed, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's hard to be properly informed-
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause it's hard to know who's telling the truth.
- LNLukas Nelson
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, if you pay attention to this big, beautiful bill that just got passed, um, I've been tr- part- trying to sort out what's real and what's not.
- LNLukas Nelson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, and the real fear that people have is Medicaid, right? The real fear is that people are gonna lose access to healthcare. And, um, it's so... But th- but then there was this just giant arrest where, uh, they found billions of dollars in f- of fraud and, uh, hundreds of people were arrested. Doctors, healthcare providers. You know about all that, right, Jamey? You saw that big arrest? It's, uh... (sighs) You know, so it's like-
- LNLukas Nelson
I, I saw something, but I, you know, I just, I just don't know enough.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I don't know enough- enough either.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So they're trying to eliminate fraud as a part of this.
- LNLukas Nelson
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But the consequences to that is, like, well, okay, but...... is this gonna affect poor people? Is this gonna affect legitimate poor people that just need help?
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- 23:54 – 42:56
Empathy, character over policy, and Daryl Davis as a model for change
- LNLukas Nelson
That's why I do what I do here, 'cause I... You know, all I do is, you know, I- I err on the side of compassion, and I think, you know, I'm compassionate for people who are suffering. I, you know, I have compassion for suffering. I- I believe that-I believe that empathy can be manipulated, but I don't believe that it's... I think it's a necessary emotion-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- LNLukas Nelson
... for cooperation and human condition.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a br- a great way to put it.
- LNLukas Nelson
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause empathy can be manipulated.
- LNLukas Nelson
It can be manipulated through-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
... psychological warfare, but I also believe that it's an... it's never a good idea to then-
- JRJoe Rogan
Shut it off.
- LNLukas Nelson
... shut it off.
- JRJoe Rogan
100%.
- LNLukas Nelson
Right on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well said.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's a really good perspective.
- LNLukas Nelson
And I also... I will say this, like, I think throughout history, there have been examples where people have put their faith in policy over character.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
And I think that's a mistake.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
I think the character of the person implementing the policy is just as important as the policy they represent.
- JRJoe Rogan
It will... You know, and today, nothing gets implemented... No- there's no policy that gets drafted or implemented without a lot of weird influence-
- LNLukas Nelson
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and influence from money. It's always money.
- LNLukas Nelson
And I have no idea the depth of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right?
- LNLukas Nelson
So- so, where my (laughs) -
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LNLukas Nelson
... where my... (laughs) you know, where my, uh, where my... My truth lies in compassion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 42:56 – 50:06
Ego, discipline, and the brain: Ren’s “Hi Ren,” Huberman’s willpower cortex, and exercise
- LNLukas Nelson
... Ren? There's an artist named Ren?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- LNLukas Nelson
Oh, man, you'd love h- you'd love his work. He's like a ... He plays guitar and he sings amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Spell it? W-
- LNLukas Nelson
R-E-N.
- JRJoe Rogan
R-E-N? Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
He's from Engla- ... Or, he's from Wales. He's Welsh.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- LNLukas Nelson
And he's ... Yeah, this guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
That dude.
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, so he's got a, a song called-
- JRJoe Rogan
Let's listen to some of this.
- LNLukas Nelson
High Ren. Listen to High Ren.
- NANarrator
Yeah, this is the one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Here, put, put the headphones on.
- LNLukas Nelson
Oh, okay.
- NANarrator
I've seen him for a while. He's like a ... He started as a busker, kind of.
- LNLukas Nelson
Right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, one of them d- dudes at the, like, subway station?
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah. This is a crazy song. (laughs) It's about communicating with your ego.
- JRJoe Rogan
What a weird fucking start to a video, a guy with a pig mask on?
- LNLukas Nelson
Oh, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
High Ren?
- NANarrator
(instrumental music) Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Hi there, Ren. It's been a little while. Did you miss me? You thought you buried me, didn't you? Risky, 'cause I always come back. Deep down, you know that. Deep down, you know I'm always in periphery. Ren, aren't you pleased to see me? It's been weeks since we spoke, bro, I know you need me. You're the sheep, I'm the shepherd, not your place to lead me. Not your place to be biting off the hand that feeds me. Hi, Ren. I've been taking some time to be distant. I've been taking some time to be still. I've been taking some time to be by myself since my therapist told me I'm ill. And I've been making some progress lately, and I learned some new coping skills. So I haven't really needed you much, man. I think we need to just step back and chill. Ren, you sound more insane than I do. You think that those doctors are really there to guide you. Been through this a million times. Your civilian mind is so perfect, they're always being lied to. Okay, take another pill, boy. Drown yourself in the sound of white noise. Follow this 10-step program, rejoice. All your problems will be gone. Fucking dumb boy. Nah, mate. This time it's different, man. Trust me. I feel like things might be falling in place.
- LNLukas Nelson
Right, and he just has a whole conversation-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
... with his own mind, you know, his own ego.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
And it, and it tries to tell him, you kn- you know, that he's not worth shit, and then he's like, "No, wait, I'm getting myself together," and, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 50:06 – 1:27:11
Impermanence and meaning: sand mandalas, Alan Watts, psychedelics, and Terence McKenna
- LNLukas Nelson
But here's the thing is that it becomes a philosophical question because when you say you have to, I'm like... You know, there are people who get by life, you know? And they... Uh, there is a Tibetan tradition in the... That the monks do where they spend months and they take these little like flute things and they, and they have colored sand, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- LNLukas Nelson
And they all sit in a circle and it takes them months sometimes to create this beautiful intricate sand art and they chant while they do it and it's just the most incredible thing. And at the end, they go (inhales and exhales deeply) and they blow it all away.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
And, and it's meant to represent the impermanence of life. But then it's meant to also pose the question, why make something so beautiful when it's going to be... When you know it's impermanent? And I believe it goes back to the first thing we started talking about today, which is that meaning is everything in life. And nothing really in life inherently has any meaning except the meaning we give it, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- LNLukas Nelson
So you could go... You could like go through life as sand on the beach that blows in the wind and you, you know, y- y- no one... You, you, you wouldn't... It wouldn't really mean much when you blow one way or another.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- LNLukas Nelson
But if you choose to give your life meaning and build a sand castle and make it as intricate and beautiful as you can and make it like, you know, as detailed as possible, knowing that one day it's gonna get washed away, o- at... I- i- the only person that it, it matters to is you and knowing that you did the best you could at that moment that the wave comes.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
If that's true, they should never let anybody film them making those things.
- LNLukas Nelson
Hmm?
- JRJoe Rogan
They should never let anyone film them making those things because then it becomes permanent. Someone can see it forever.
- LNLukas Nelson
Sure. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
You know what I'm saying?
- LNLukas Nelson
But yet again, I think it's for them anyways.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. For-
- LNLukas Nelson
It's not for-
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- LNLukas Nelson
... everyone else.
- JRJoe Rogan
But like when you let people peer into that world and you film it-
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... there's, there's something about that like, "Oh, yeah, you just cheated it." (laughs) You just hacked-
- LNLukas Nelson
Well, in a way it becomes permanent, but it also... I mean, it is... Y- you know, just because you see it happening-
- JRJoe Rogan
Let's look at it.
- LNLukas Nelson
All right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Can you find that?
- LNLukas Nelson
Yeah, sure you could find it on there.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, I'm not dismissing it. I'm just-
Episode duration: 2:24:39
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Transcript of episode LiZC7ztBC-U
