Joe Rogan Experience #2351 - James McCann

Narrator 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) John, John, John McHarg, my man.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:13 Hey, thank you for having me here.

Joe Rogan 0:15 My pleasure.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:16 It's a joy.

Joe Rogan 0:17 It's a joy to have you, sir. I've been having a good time hanging out with you at the club, so...

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:21 It's been great.

Joe Rogan 0:22 Felt like we gotta do that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:23 This is very... Ah, man, I'm trying not to spin out.

Joe Rogan 0:26 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:27 This is... I have watched this on a phone before. This is great.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Well, it's weird for me that it's weird for people, because to me, it's still the same thing. It's just sitting down and talking to people.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:36 I've gotten so used to it, even when it's like Trump, or Elon, or some fucking huge cultural figure, it's still just like very...

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:44 You must have spun out at least one time.

Joe Rogan 0:46 I spun out a bunch of times in the early days. I still spin out every now and then, like, uh, you know, like, you, like Mel Gibson's on the podcast-

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:55 ... you're like, "Oh, that's really Mel Gibson." Mike Tyson, that's another one. Um, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:59 Yeah, he was... Was this where he said he became erect when he wanted to beat people up?

Joe Rogan 1:04 That was in, uh, California.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:06 Yeah. That was... (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:07 That's a classic.

Joe Rogan 1:08 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:08 That's a classic, all-time great moment.

Joe Rogan 1:12 He was, he was scaring the shit out of me. Whew.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:16 Man, I spin out... When I first got to the club, I was going, it was every week I would, uh...

Joe Rogan 1:20 It's weird, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:21 When I first met Adam Egert, I went... I, I, I... You know, it's, "Hello, Mr. Egert. H- I've seen you. You denied the Holocaust." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:31 (laughs) Not really. We should be real clear.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:33 No, he was not jerking off-

Joe Rogan 1:34 It was a Norm MacDonald-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:34 ... punks under a bridge.

Joe Rogan 1:35 It was a Norm MacDonald bit.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:37 He features in that book a lot.

Joe Rogan 1:39 Well, Adam's an amazing guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41 He's the reason... He's one of the reasons why I went back to the store. When I was banned from the store for seven years, Adam came to visit-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:48 That's seven years?

Joe Rogan 1:49 Yeah. Well, I banned myself for seven years. They banned me, they were gonna ban me for like a few weeks, I'm like, "Fuck you."

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55 Like, "Nay."

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:57 What did you do?

Joe Rogan 1:58 There's the whole Carlos Mencia thing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:59 They banned you for that?

Joe Rogan 2:00 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:01 You won the court of public opinion on that, I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 2:03 Well, not only did I not really get banned, the guy who banned me was eventually fired. He was the manager there. But Mitzi, uh, gave me a spot that night. It's like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13 ... before they called me to tell me I was banned, Mitzi was going through a lot of health problems, right? And, you know, Mitzi was... I was very close with her. So, I called her when the whole Mencia thing happened and I said, "Listen, this is, this guy's been a problem. It's a, it's a real issue. People are worried about doi- doing material in front of him."

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:31 It's like, this is a giant problem. And, you know, I told her the whole thing with the video, and she's like, "All right, well, just keep away from him."

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:39 "What time do you wanna go up tonight?" And I said, "When do you want me to go up?" And she said, "How about 10:30?" Or whatever it was. And I said, "Thank you. Okay, I love you, bye." We said bye. And then, uh, like, fucking hour, two hours later, I get a call from this manager telling me that I'm, uh, banned from the store for two weeks. And I was like, "What?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:01 I go, "For two weeks? For w- for w-..." I go, "Listen to me right now, I'm not coming back." I go, "I'm not coming back. And you're making a decision that's gonna fuck this club up because you're choosing to take the side of plagiarism-

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 3:15 ... over someone who's exposing it." Like, the, the agents won't expose it, they're making a shit ton of money, and if The Comedy Store's not gonna side with the artists? I'm like, "Listen," oh, this is the same conversation I had with my agent, I lost my agent too for that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:31 I feel like th- those are both important moments in a... Like-

Joe Rogan 3:35 The agents that-

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:35 I just thought that everybody seems to have a problem with their agent firing them, but also the number of people who have been banned from comedy clubs. I was, Brian Simpson has told me about how he got banned for ages when he was homeless. Uh, who el- there was like five-

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah, he got, he got banned-

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:48 ... people who were all doing bans from comedy club stories.

Joe Rogan 3:50 But he was, uh... (sighs) He-

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:52 He just didn't show up.

Joe Rogan 3:52 ... he had some sort of an issue with someone there. And this was like when Brian wasn't Brian Simpson from Netflix, you know?

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:00 It's like Brian Simpson up and coming door guy that people go, "Oh, that guy's funny." But like if you get a f- run afoul with certain people-

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:08 This is what I'm trying to avoid. I did this in Australia a lot.

Joe Rogan 4:11 You ran afoul?

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:11 I was a problem.

Joe Rogan 4:13 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:13 And, uh, I couldn't work in certain cities for some time just 'cause I was, I think, unpleasant.

Joe Rogan 4:20 What were you doing wrong?

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:21 I, you know, I started comedy, I would go around telling people that they sucked-

Joe Rogan 4:24 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:24 ... and they should quit. And I went to like the head of the Melbourne Comedy Festival. I was in, I was in the comedy competition, it was like my fourth gig. And I was like, "You're picking all the wrong people to win these awards. These guys are better." And it just, uh...

Joe Rogan 4:36 Ah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:36 Anyway, I'm l- we grow older. I was also 18, and I was-

Joe Rogan 4:40 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:40 ... um-

Joe Rogan 4:40 Oh, I get it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:41 ... very-

Joe Rogan 4:42 No, it's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:42 Yeah, a lot of feuds, a lot of telling people that they sucked.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Well, when you enter into comedy, you know, a lot of times people treat it weirdly like sports. You know, like they talk shit playing basketball, so they try to talk shit doing comedy, and it's like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:56 ... it's weird.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:57 I'm get- I've gotten better at it. I think I've purged it for- but sometimes.

Joe Rogan 5:01 Well, it depends on the-

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:01 Oh.

Joe Rogan 5:01 ... environment you're in. If you're in an envi-

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:03 ... in an environment where a lot of people are doing that, it's not fun.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:06 But this is... I find it easy here 'cause people are... I don't wanna, I don't wanna say that everyone in Australia is bad at comedy. There are many great comics. But I could not for the life of... Like, there, there were times where it's like, "Oh, this could be helpful for your career to get in with someone and have them guide you." And it's like, I just hated everybody's comedy-

Joe Rogan 5:24 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:24 ... that I met and hung out with. And people who were great would often leave or not be around.

Joe Rogan 5:30 Australia's kind of a different...

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:31 We've got great people out there, but-

Joe Rogan 5:32 Well, listen, you got Jim Jefferies-

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:34 Yes.

Joe Rogan 5:35 ... you, I think you're the funniest guy that's ever come out of Australia.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:37 Well-

Joe Rogan 5:37 I believe that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:38 No, we have Barry Humphries, he'll never be better.

Joe Rogan 5:40 Okay, well the same-

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:40 Do you know Barry Humphries?

Joe Rogan 5:41 No.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:42 The first big drag act-

Joe Rogan 5:43 You tried to make me... Well, y- I think we watched a clip once in the green room, but, you know, the problem was the green room is so loud and-

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:51 ... it's... Yeah, I'll watch it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:52 No, Bar-

Joe Rogan 5:52 I'll watch it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:52 ... Barry Humphries was the man, he would dress up like, uh, Dame Edna, this was in the '70s, he's a conservative man.

Joe Rogan 5:56 No.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:56 He'd dress up like a housewife, like a very dowdy drag act. And, uh, it was like super funny, really broke through in the UK. And then the festival turned their back on him. He started the Melbourne Comedy Festival, and then he made some like trans remark, and Hannah Gadsby, I think-... it was like, "I'm not taking this award in his name."

Joe Rogan 6:13 Okay, you're the second funniest Australian. I forgot about Hannah Gadsby.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:16 And then they changed the award. I, I lose that to Hannah as well. You forget about Hannah. Hannah was a great club act.

Joe Rogan 6:19 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:19 I tell this to people all the time.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Ugh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:21 No one in a ... No one wants to believe it.

Joe Rogan 6:23 Well, listen, man. It's just, she did a different thing. A lot of people got mad at that, but I don't get mad at things that are not for me. It's not-

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:31 Ah.

Joe Rogan 6:31 It's pointless.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:32 It ... I think it was-

Joe Rogan 6:32 Took me a while.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:33 ... it was like a revolutionary act for Americans 'cause I, you don't have comedy festivals in the same way here. But like, e- everyone in Australia was doing the I Got Raped show or the I Wanted to Commit Suicide show.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Oh, really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:44 Yeah. Your show, it, you know, everyone does an hour. That's the only way you can ... There's only five cities, so the comedy festivals are the only way you can really break through and make money. There's five clubs, and once you're done touring them, you got nothing.

Joe Rogan 6:53 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:53 So every, you had to have a new hour every year. There was the-

Joe Rogan 6:56 Ooh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:57 Oh, man. There have been some great I Was Molested shows.

Joe Rogan 7:00 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:00 Shout out Corey White for one of the greatest I Was Molested shows ever. Uh, who, Dave Quirk had the I Had an Affair show that was great. Uh, Dad's Got Cancer, big show.

Joe Rogan 7:10 Oh, no.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:10 Big show. Mom Died When I Was Young.

Joe Rogan 7:12 So was it-

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:12 Shout out, Eve.

Joe Rogan 7:12 ... sort of like more like, um, a spoken word thing than you would say standup comedy?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:17 You have your st- You, if you just, no one's even ... People do all the jokes they wrote that year, which gets you like 35 minutes.

Joe Rogan 7:24 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:24 Then you tell a 10-minute very sad story about-

Joe Rogan 7:27 (laughs) Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:28 "I am thin, and then I-"

Joe Rogan 7:29 No.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:29 "... I finished my chicken curry, and I thought, 'I'm ready to die.'" And then, uh-

Joe Rogan 7:33 Oh, God.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:33 ... then you bring it back with a gag at the end and ... Yeah, I w- I, I-

Joe Rogan 7:36 And that was like standard?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:38 Yeah. It's still going on to this day. There's a lot of that-

Joe Rogan 7:40 That's so weird.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:41 And I could never do it.

Joe Rogan 7:43 Y- yeah. You're, I don't ... I couldn't imagine you doing that. You're so like funny heavy. Like your, your comedy's very funny heavy, you know?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:52 It feels important for comedy.

Joe Rogan 7:54 Pfft, fucking most important thing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:56 It feels ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:56 It's fun to get interesting ideas out there. It really is.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:59 Sure.

Joe Rogan 7:59 It's fun to talk about interesting subjects, but it's gotta be funny.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:05 I mean, I l- when see, people have a theme.

Joe Rogan 8:06 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:07 I love ... Like Colin Quinn does this in, all the time, and it's great. He does like the-

Joe Rogan 8:10 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:10 ... the Going to Therapy show.

Joe Rogan 8:11 The-

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:11 Rich State Blue State thing.

Joe Rogan 8:13 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:13 The history of America in New York is great.

Joe Rogan 8:15 That's, uh, he's a genius at it. He's probably the best at it about like telling interesting subject matter, using inter- interesting subject matter, telling you things you didn't know with comedy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:25 He, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:26 And highlighting the ridiculousness of it all.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:28 He was at the club, and that was, that was crazy.

Joe Rogan 8:31 He's great. He's such a good guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:32 I used to, time is usually like you, time is dragging on when people are on stage, and you check how long it's gone. Even if it's great, and you go, "I thought we were at the 20-minute mark. It's been six minutes or something."

Joe Rogan 8:41 Do you know-

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:41 Time just disappears for him.

Joe Rogan 8:42 ... who really blew me away is Jimmy Carr.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:45 Oh my God, he was so on when he was here. He was doing new stuff that he had-

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:50 I saw him run in the new with the pages, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:52 Yeah, with the pages, but the polish, like while he's doing the new stuff, he's so good off the cuff that even if the new stuff was going sideways-

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:02 People love him.

Joe Rogan 9:03 ... he figured out a way to turn it around and, and-

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:04 I wish I could do that.

Joe Rogan 9:05 ... would address it. And like, oh, he was so good.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:07 But he, he just sits and writes apparently. He's an animal.

Joe Rogan 9:10 He's just like ... And he teaches it too. He teaches it. He has a program that they actually ran at the Mothership for up-and-coming comics.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:16 Can you teach it?

Joe Rogan 9:17 I think-

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:17 I'm always wary of that.

Joe Rogan 9:18 W- I don't think you could teach comedy necessarily, but I think you could teach ... You could learn how he does it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:25 Mm.

Joe Rogan 9:25 And you can learn how certain people do it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:27 And I think some of that you can apply. Um, and I think-

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:30 The Mitch Hedberg School of Comedy? You've gotta take a lot of heroin.

Joe Rogan 9:33 Impossible. Yeah. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:33 And put your hair right over your face.

Joe Rogan 9:35 I think you can, what you can do though is teach work ethic.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:39 And I think that's half the battle. Half the battle is just sitting down and, and actually writing. And no, everyone comes up with an excuse. It's like a cold plunge. Everybody comes up with an excuse-

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:51 ... why they don't want a cold plunge, and everybody comes up with an excuse why they don't write in front of a computer or on a piece of paper. They always write only on stage.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:59 Well, so, I mean, go, it's, doing the same thing over and over again was, I, for, I don't know, seven, eight years at the start, I struggled to do it. I had no ... I had like five bad hours of comedy.

Joe Rogan 10:09 Mm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:09 And it wasn't until I probably impregnated my wife, it was like, "I should, I should make sure there's a good five."

Joe Rogan 10:17 Really take it seriously. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:17 "I should really boil this down to a good five minutes, or I'm in real trouble."

Joe Rogan 10:20 Well, sometimes it's something like that has to happen in your life where you really take it seriously 'cause we all know comics that like we started with. We're like, "Oh my God, this guy's gonna be huge."

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:30 And for whatever reason, they didn't put in the work. They fucked off. They self-sabotaged.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:36 Every town you go to, there's the guy who-

Joe Rogan 10:39 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:39 ... who's gonna be big.

Joe Rogan 10:40 I think if we can encourage more people, uh, we can make less of that, and I think we can give more people a chance 'cause I, I think we all could have been that person who quit.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:51 And I know in the beginning, I thought about quit a bunch of times. One of the things that helped me f- not quit is I tore my ACL.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:58 Okay.

Joe Rogan 10:59 So, uh, I couldn't train or compete anymore.

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:02 'Cause I was still like kind of on the fence of whether I'd go back to fighting or, 'cause I was terrible at comedy. I was d- I was like good every now and again.

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:11 And the ACL took that away from you.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Uh-huh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:12 You've got one option now.

Joe Rogan 11:13 I was like, "Okay, I can't fight anymore. I need to get surgery. Um, I gotta take this seriously, and I gotta really pick one thing." And I completely stopped competing. So it was like a year into comedy. So that was an important thing. Like I needed a thing where I was like, "Okay, I've got no options now. Like I can't just enter into a kickboxing tournament and say, 'Fuck comedy.' This is too hard.'"

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:36 And I, it is just, there was a, it was a weird thing. It was like a, I had to make a complete mind shift from someone who didn't care at all about other people's opinions, w- someone who was like, "I will show you. I will show you. Like I don't give a fuck what you think. I will show you."

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:52 To, "I have to get you to like me."

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:55 "I have to be fun- not just funny with my friends, but I have to figure out how to make these people my friends," where I was always very standoffish with new people. It was a weird thing to try to adjust to comedy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:05 Well, also if you can't make it work, you have to stop at some point.

Joe Rogan 12:08 Y- Oh, you have to.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:09 Ah.

Joe Rogan 12:09 If you can't make it work, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:11 But you have to manage.

Joe Rogan 12:11 But I did make it work some times. I just had to figure out what i- what was consistent when I was making it work versus not. Yeah, that's a bitch. That's a real ...

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:18 Yeah. I don't know how, I mean, so few people get past at a-... club.

Joe Rogan 12:23 I know, it's hard.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:23 Uh, 'cause you, you have to come back and do it a couple times and people seem to be-

Joe Rogan 12:26 You have to suffer.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:27 But I see people have a gre- like, a one-off great one, and then you go, "Where did that go?"

Joe Rogan 12:31 Oh, dude. There's a girl that I saw once in 1990.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:36 No, 1995 or 6, that's what it was. 1995 or 6, she, she did a set in the Belly Room and it was one of the funniest sets I've ever seen in my life. It was like I was watching a female Sam Kinnison. I was like, "This girl is on fire." Like, "This is insane."

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:55 And then, never happened. I don't know what happened. You know? I don't know. People just never really get it together. They, they, whatever the fuck they pulled off that time, they can't do again.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:08 Lightning in a bottle. But it was in there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:11 Oh, and I saw-

Joe Rogan 13:11 Like, it's in there. That comedy was in there. It was like, if this person with the right encouragement could've been fucking huge, man.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:18 Yeah. I remember, I saw my friend Amos on a day his girlfriend broke up with him and he went and did... He was meant, he was booked for 10 and he did, like, 25. Uh, and he was just heartbroken. He was just complaining about being devastated. And it was all the things that were wrong with his comedy beforehand were, like, gone. He was used to be, like, unpleasant in people's face and then he was, like, free and likable and good. It's like, oh-

Joe Rogan 13:40 Oh, wow.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:40 ... you can't engineer to be broken up with every show. You can't-

Joe Rogan 13:45 Right. You can't engineer that, right. Y-

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:47 You shouldn't.

Joe Rogan 13:48 Well, that was Kinnison in the early days, right? Curly... Kinnison in the early days was all about, like, how y- you know, like meeting the devil and the devil's like, "Oh, you've been married?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:56 That was all fucking nudie, y- you know, it was all old hat to you. "Oh, this is where we torture the souls." (imitates ghost laughing) Like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:02 I never had it-

Joe Rogan 14:03 "Oh, you were married twice?" Like, remember that bit?

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:05 (laughs) I, I, I'd nev... Kinnison, the first time I realized that he was a big thing was when that poster went up backstage at the Mothership.

Joe Rogan 14:11 Oh, really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:12 Yeah, we didn't, we didn't get him.

Joe Rogan 14:13 Wow.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:14 We didn't get him, we didn't get, uh... I mean, maybe some people got them. We got Ron White 'cause he was on Comedy Central, so I had seen his special, like, a bunch of times.

Joe Rogan 14:22 But that's crazy you never got Kinnison.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:23 But in terms of American comics, I didn't get Kinnison, I didn't get, uh... Who all? We got Chappelle, 'cause we got Chappelle's Show.

Joe Rogan 14:29 You must've got Hicks.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:31 People around me had Hicks, but, uh, I was late to Hicks because the men who loved Hicks were, uh, nuts.

Joe Rogan 14:38 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:39 Do you know what I mean? Like, you go-

Joe Rogan 14:40 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:40 ... "There's something good here but it's gonna, I'm gonna have to come back to it, where they're going."

Joe Rogan 14:42 Well, he was so good and so unique in the kinda comedy that he did, and so smart that it made a bunch of guys try to be like him.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:53 There's many such cases-

Joe Rogan 14:54 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:55 ... of guys who are great but they destroy-

Joe Rogan 14:57 Dude, wh-

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:57 There's a lot of little Casey Rockets running around-

Joe Rogan 14:59 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:59 ... that think they don't have to write anything and they're... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:02 One of the all-time grea... I mean, if you... One of the all-time greats is Richard Jeni. I mean, he's an all-time great. And, um, when I saw him in, like, the 1980s, he did a club... I guess it was probably '90, '91 maybe? East Side Comedy Club. He did four different hours and-

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:23 ... the emcee wanted to quit comedy after he emceed for him that weekend. He said, "He did four different hours, a different hour on, uh, Friday night, first show, different hour, second show, different hour, first show Saturday night-

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:34 ... different hour..." And all of them murdered, and he said, "It was insane," and he goes, "I wanted to quit comedy." He saw Hicks and he said to me, like, we were hanging out together. He was like, "God, I gotta, I wish I... Makes me wanna do more of that, you know? I feel like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:49 ... sometimes I'm not doing enough of that." I was like, "Wow, that's crazy."

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:52 Do you know a Ken Dodd? Do you know the... He was a Liverpudlian comedian, I think, but he would come out and he would do his new hour and people would, like, clap and say thank you, and then he would, he would say, "Right, I'm gonna do the hour I did last time I was in town. You can leave if you want, but I'll do..." And the second hour is the hour he did the year before. And then he'd do the hour that he did the year before that, and he'd just do hour after hour until the whole, until... Like, as people had enough, they could get up and walk away-

Joe Rogan 16:15 Wow.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:16 ... but he'd be there for, like, seven hours.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:19 You know who used to do that?

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:20 He was still the best, I've hated it.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Chappelle used to do that. He used to pull up to the Laugh Factory and do, like, a nine-hour set.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:26 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:26 He's still doing it, I think.

Joe Rogan 16:28 I think him and Dane Cook had, like, a battle to see, like, who, who could do the longest set. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:33 I mean, I saw, I got to go to-

Joe Rogan 16:35 I don't think Dave was, like, trying to battle but I think Dade, like, took the title.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:39 Shane took me to his, the, the YS Firehouse, the club that Dave has set up in, uh...

Joe Rogan 16:43 Mm-hmm. Yellow Springs.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:45 Yeah, and it was on his birthday and he did three hours and he bombed at his own birthday.

Joe Rogan 16:50 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:50 And he kept saying, "I can't believe I'm bombing at my own club on my birthday."

Joe Rogan 16:55 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:55 But then in the middle, there was a guy with a coat and he just did maybe 45 minutes about this guy's coat of crowd work on hi... Just a... It was magical. The whole thing flew. He could release an hour on this guy's coat.

Joe Rogan 17:07 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:07 I think he's recording everything though. He's building a vault, I think. I think he's got a Prince vault.

Joe Rogan 17:12 A Prince vault?

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:13 Yeah, like, how Prince... I think every second album-

Joe Rogan 17:15 Oh, of his... his episodes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:15 ... Prince would just put it away. And I think he's got... He must have hours in the vault.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Yeah, he's got a whole system for how he creates comedy. It's very unique. He goes on stage and he has some subjects and he just fucks around and he gets a little drunk-

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:30 ... gets a little high, and he's so funny that some of those things will wind up being bits.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 17:36 And then he takes those bits and then he, like, he has all of them recorded, so he's just constantly sto... And he goes on stage, like, almost every night.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:44 I can't. I... There's nothing in my vault. Everything I've got (laughs) , I've gotten, I've got, like...

Joe Rogan 17:49 I mean, that's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:49 Every time I go out there, I go, "I've got nothing."

Joe Rogan 17:52 Isn't that a great example? Like, not everybody has the option to just go on stage and rant for three hours.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:57 But isn't it educational to any young comics? It, it says, okay, who do people consider to be the gres- greatest comic alive? Most people would say Dave Chappelle, and Dave Chappelle is working harder than anybody.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 18:10 It's not a coincidence. Like, he's effortlessly funny, yes, for sure. Brilliant, yes, for sure, but also works every night. Like, there's something to that. And works every night and does long sets.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:22 Like, every night. Like, he's always-

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:24 He's always there, he's always down there.

Joe Rogan 18:25 ... grinding. He's always getting better, he's always covering new subjects.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:28 I dr- I thought I didn't have to do it before I came to America. I would do, like...I would do a- an hour a month and be very happy with that.

Joe Rogan 18:33 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:33 And I thought this was enough to get me where I needed to go. And, uh, no, going every night is... It's also hard to go every night. Like, you don't... You have a good time once you're out.

Joe Rogan 18:42 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:43 But then you're... You wake up in the morning-

Joe Rogan 18:44 You gotta avoid-

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:45 ... to comedy.

Joe Rogan 18:45 You gotta avoid that feeling, right? So it's a, it's a mental collapse. It's, you know, familiarity breeds contempt. It's not just in relationships. It's in anything you do.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:57 And that's where you have to re- reset your mind, right? So, like, when you start to feel that coming on, like, "I can't believe I have to do another set. Fuck, I don't wanna do a second show," you have to remember what it was like when you had nothing. And you have to remember what it was like when you would go to open mic night and just, you wouldn't on the, weren't on the list, you didn't make the list, but you just wanted to go on stage so bad.

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:20 You wanted to go on stage so bad, and you wanted it f- You're like, "I gotta figure this thing out."

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:25 You gotta have your Johnny Cash moment, sitting backstage at the Folsom Prison-

Joe Rogan 19:28 Yeah, and now-

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:28 ... looking at the water, thinking about your brother.

Joe Rogan 19:29 ... here you are about to go do a second sold-out show.

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:33 No, it's silly.

Joe Rogan 19:34 You should be so pumped. It's just a familiarity thing. It's just a mindfuck, but you can get over mind fucks, man. You can get over them if you understand what they are and just recalibrate the way you engage with it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:47 Uh, figuring out a way to recalibrate that doesn't kill you in the long run is a good... Like I know some pe- You know?

Joe Rogan 19:52 Well, you mean cocaine? (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:54 Either the cocaine, people get like fucked up, or just play a video game or-

Joe Rogan 19:57 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:57 ... all week, and then they can get back and do it.

Joe Rogan 19:59 You don't have to, though. You don't have to do those things.

James Donald Forbes McCann 20:01 I think you gotta do something.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 20:02 You gotta go for a nice walk.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 20:04 I started swimming.

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James Donald Forbes McCann 21:19 I love to swim.

Joe Rogan 21:20 Oh, you were telling me that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:21 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:22 I'm all about... I've got nothing... I go on stage now and try and talk about how much I love the pool. I got nothing.

Joe Rogan 21:26 You might figure something out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:26 I've done, like, three sets where I stand there and go-

Joe Rogan 21:28 You might figure it out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:28 ... "Isn't swimming beautiful?"

Joe Rogan 21:29 You'll figure it out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:30 And then I say nothing-

Joe Rogan 21:31 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:31 ... and I wait for something to happen after that.

Joe Rogan 21:33 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:33 And I go and talk about the next thing.

Joe Rogan 21:35 Uh, well, it's... You know, one of those exercises that, because you're moving against the resistance of the water, it doesn't damage your joints.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:44 And it's like... It feels, like, therapeutic, y- even though it feels like exercise.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:49 You can get yourself tired if you want. You can slow it down.

Joe Rogan 21:51 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:52 You can.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Yeah, and it's fun. I swim with my dog.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:56 In a lake? In a pool?

Joe Rogan 21:57 No, in a pool. Me and the dog swim in the pool. He's the f-

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:01 He's the funniest... He's such a great dog. But-

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:03 I did find your dog Instagram account. Are you running the dog Instagram account?

Joe Rogan 22:07 No, my wife runs it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:07 Okay.

Joe Rogan 22:08 But he's, um, he's so great that, like, he won't swim unless you're swimming. Like, he knows he's not supposed to just randomly jump in the pool, because then he comes in the house-

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:17 Yes.

Joe Rogan 22:17 ... and fucks everything up. So, he only is allowed to swim when we tell him to swim. And so, he sits there like, "Are we fucking swimming today?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:24 And then when he finds out we're swimming, we're like, "Oh, shit, we're swimming!"

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:28 And he just jumps off the fucking side of the pool into the pool.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:31 Do you know the chlorinated pool? Is it salt pool?

Joe Rogan 22:33 Salt pool.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:33 I think it's salt pool. If it's not, it's supposed to be.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:36 It's not. I can float in that. I cannot float in the chlorine pool, and that brings me great-

Joe Rogan 22:40 Why not?

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:40 ... distress. I... My legs sink down.

Joe Rogan 22:43 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:43 I have no bum. I haven't got any bum.

Joe Rogan 22:44 Have you ever done a float tank?

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:46 Never.

Joe Rogan 22:46 Oh, my God. We have one-

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:47 I'm afraid of what would be in my brain.

Joe Rogan 22:49 You need to find out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:50 No.

Joe Rogan 22:50 Go dig around.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:51 We need to close this door.

Joe Rogan 22:51 Let's go dig around, dog.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:53 Keep that closed forever.

Joe Rogan 22:53 Let's go d-

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:53 Repression is so beautiful.

Joe Rogan 22:55 Let's dig around, dog. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:58 I've been there five minutes off your back and they're, "Get me. Ah! Ah!"

Joe Rogan 23:01 Just push it down and get back to work at the factory.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:05 It really doe- I'm a big believer in push it down and keep moving.

Joe Rogan 23:08 A, there's something to be said for that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:09 That's... I mean, you explode at some point.

Joe Rogan 23:10 Well, the opposite is not good, right? If you're constantly dwelling on your problems-

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:15 ... all the time, that's, that's worse.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:17 I was d- Someone was... I got f- I got circumcised at, like, 32 because I had a-

Joe Rogan 23:23 Jesus Christ, son.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:24 ... problem. Lord's name. But it was a beautiful experience. I enjoyed it. I had a nice time.

Joe Rogan 23:27 Woo! Did you get a rabbi to suck your dick?

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:29 I thought about it. I thought I could leave that in as an option.

Joe Rogan 23:32 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:32 But also, it's fine. No different.

Joe Rogan 23:35 I'm not making a joke.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:36 They do suck the... Sometimes they have a tube. Sometimes they have a special tube with a-

Joe Rogan 23:40 Yeah, and sometimes they don't.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:41 You know, sometimes they just get the whole dick removed.

Joe Rogan 23:42 And, uh, they've given kids herpes and babies have died from it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:44 Children do die of the... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:47 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:47 Yeah, it's grim. But circumcision in general, I'm in favor.

Joe Rogan 23:50 Why?

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:51 Because I had... I know what it was like before, I know what it was like after, it's not a big deal.

Joe Rogan 23:54 This is, uh-

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:55 But there are people... What I'm saying, people make it their whole life.

Joe Rogan 23:57 ... one of one study.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:58 Yeah, I've experienced both as an adult. People go-

Joe Rogan 24:00 I think most people would not want their dick to be cut for no real reason other than aesthetics. And people are like, "Oh, it prevents AIDS." (laughs) It's like, shut the fuck up.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:09 (laughs) I got to go to the AIDS Memorial Garden in San Francisco.

Joe Rogan 24:12 Yeah, and did you show them your new dick?

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:14 Uh, well, people definitely would.

Joe Rogan 24:15 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:15 It's a lot of nooks and crannies in the AIDS Memorial. Like, they built the perfect place to have sex with a man in the AIDS park.

Joe Rogan 24:21 Wow. It's perfect, like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:22 Someone's definitely gotten AIDS at the AIDS Memorial Garden.

Joe Rogan 24:24 You think so?

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:25 I'm... They're fucking away and they're going, "Ah, I knew there was something I was supposed to remember."

Joe Rogan 24:28 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:29 "Shit, now I have AIDS." It was very good. It was a beautiful park. San Francisco is-... lovely.

Joe Rogan 24:34 Have you ever, uh, listened to people like, um... What is that guy's name, the guy that we had on the podcast a long time ago? Peter Duesberg?

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:43 No.

Joe Rogan 24:44 (sighs) If you wanna go down the ultimate rabbit hole.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:46 Why, what was he doing? Was he in a pod?

Joe Rogan 24:48 No. Peter Duesberg doesn't believe that HIV cau- causes AIDS.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:52 I've heard about this.

Joe Rogan 24:53 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:53 It's the treatment.

Joe Rogan 24:54 Peter Duesberg is, uh, he's a professional of... Professor of Biology, University of California, Berkeley, um, tenured. And he's, uh, he's done, like, groundbreaking work on cancer. It's like c- considered to be a brilliant guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:09 He's got numbers on the board.

Joe Rogan 25:09 Considered to be a brilliant guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:10 So, in the '80s when all this was going on with AIDS, his assertion was that there was a thing that people were not factoring in, is that almost all, all of the people who developed AIDS-

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:22 ... were hardcore partiers, hardcore drug users, in the gay community. And no one wanted to address that. And he was saying, "No, this is destroying their immune system-"

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:33 ... "and then HIV shows up." He goes, "HIV is a weak virus." He goes, "In most people and in..." Th- when I read what he said, and I don't know if this is true, maybe we could find out, that babies, if they're born, they test positive for HIV without any treatment at all, are HIV negative within a certain amount of time.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:51 And so, it all sounds nuts, right? Because you go, there's no way-

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:56 Uh, you can, you can marshal evidence for that, 'cause like African-

Joe Rogan 25:58 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:58 ... countries, you would go healthcare would be bad, malnutrition would be rife.

Joe Rogan 26:01 Well, this is the thing. Are they really testing for HIV when they say these people have AIDS? And is there other possible factors that could cause this immune thing? And if you're dealing with like, it's all coming out of this gay community where there are a lot of partying, there's a lot of drug use-

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:15 ... and a lot of wild fucking. And these guys are burning it at both ends.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:20 And when you do that, sometimes you fucking die. Sometimes your immune system gets crashed. Now, clearly, I'm not fucking smart enough to know if he's right or if everyone else in the world is right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:32 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:32 Because it's literally that, right? It's like, he's a few-

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:34 I always want that guy to be right, though.

Joe Rogan 26:36 Well, there's a bunch of people that agree with him.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:38 And qu- silently agree with him. There's a, a bunch of people. It's actually covered in RFK Jr.'s book on Fauci, because it has to do with Fauci.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:47 Fauci was in charge then, right?

Joe Rogan 26:49 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:49 Like he was-

Joe Rogan 26:50 Yes. He was the one that was giving people AZT, right? So, AZT was a cancer medication that was killing people quicker than cancer was. It was a chemotherapy. And it, not only is it a chemotherapy, this is the only time during the AIDS crisis where a chemotherapy was prescribed permanently.

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:06 Well, it seems-

Joe Rogan 27:06 'Cause chemotherapy, the, the, the agreement is, like, "I'm gonna take this poison that's gonna destroy-"

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:15 For a while.

Joe Rogan 27:15 ... "my body, but it's gonna kill the cancer."

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:16 "And then when the cancer's dead, I'm gonna get healthy again." Right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:19 Yeah, no one gets hooked on chemotherapy.

Joe Rogan 27:21 You don't stay on it. You don't stay on it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:22 No one's getting an extra prescription for chemo.

Joe Rogan 27:23 And it's a super strong one. And, you know, there was a lot of people that took AZT when they were asymptomatic. Like, they didn't even have any of the symptoms.

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:32 They just tested positive for HIV. And this was back when Kary Mullis, the guy who invented the PCR test, he, he's like famously on record saying like, "This is no way to test for diseases and Fauci doesn't know what the fuck he's doing." And it's the same guy that was in charge during the whole COVID thing. And you're like, that is the craziest conspiracy that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. But what he's saying is HIV is president, is, is present in people with already compromised immune systems. And that this unique factor, that they're all hardcore drug users-

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:05 ... was never taken into consideration.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:08 Well, they s- I mean, certainly with COVID, they didn't take it into account that it was-

Joe Rogan 28:11 Well, they-

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:11 ... fat people and weak people, and-

Joe Rogan 28:12 The thing is, you gotta look at it from a profitability standpoint. And I know this is super cynical and sounds disgusting. But if you have a actual disease that you can prescribe medication for-

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:24 ... that's valuable.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:25 Yes.

Joe Rogan 28:26 If you have a bunch of people that are doing something that's super healthy that's killing them, and you don't have a solution, that's not valuable.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:33 Well, they figured it out with fat people. They got the Ozempic.

Joe Rogan 28:36 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:36 And people are just on the Ozempic forever.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Bro, did you know Ozempic is like num- number one most profitable medication in the country?

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:42 I, I believe it, but-

Joe Rogan 28:43 What, is that true? Did I make that up? I think that's true. I forget.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:46 They're all doing it.

Joe Rogan 28:46 Sometimes I see things on TikTok and I'm just like, "Is this China fucking-"

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:49 Also, some of them look great.

Joe Rogan 28:50 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:51 I mean, I know people on Ozempic who are, they're spry-looking. They're bouncing around.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Are you thinking about doing it?

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:55 No.

Joe Rogan 28:55 Thinking about it?

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:56 Never.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Nope?

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:58 Nah.

Joe Rogan 28:58 No way?

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:58 I'm a comfortable level of fat. In America, no one has ever called me fat.

Joe Rogan 29:03 No, you fit right in.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:03 In Australia at this body, all the time.

Joe Rogan 29:06 Really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:06 They're all fucking healthy over there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:08 You guys get to hike everywhere.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:09 I think the food is better.

Joe Rogan 29:11 For sure.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:11 I think the food, I think I've-

Joe Rogan 29:12 For sure.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:13 ... I became lactose intolerant when I came to America, uh, 'cause I had raw milk, and then I vomited green bile for a couple of days.

Joe Rogan 29:21 You ate raw milk here?

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:22 I had like a gallon of raw milk in a day, 'cause it was great.

Joe Rogan 29:26 So, raw milk, not, um, pasteurized, not homogenized?

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:28 It was, I got it from the farmer's market. The guy looked really strong and healthy-

Joe Rogan 29:31 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:31 ... and I was like, "I want that cool right-wing milk."

Joe Rogan 29:33 And that gave you lactose intolerance?

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:34 I don't know. I liked the milk so much, I like to believe it wasn't that. But it was-

Joe Rogan 29:37 Maybe you just drank-

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:38 But it was the next day.

Joe Rogan 29:39 ... too much of it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:40 I think I got some sort of weird bacteria. But I was, yeah, I've... Oh, green bile, both ends.

Joe Rogan 29:45 Really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:45 Yes. Lost a lot of weight.

Joe Rogan 29:47 I mean, you're gonna, right now, you're destroying the raw milk industry-

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:49 I'm still-

Joe Rogan 29:50 ... single-handedly.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:50 I would li- It also, it was the most beautiful milk I've ever had.

Joe Rogan 29:54 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:54 I don't wanna be negative about raw milk. If you can have it and it doesn't do that to you, whew.

Joe Rogan 29:59 I think raw-

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:59 Have you had the raw milk?

Joe Rogan 30:00 I have.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:00 It's like drinking a secret.

Joe Rogan 30:01 I think raw milk should be like raw meat. Leave me alone.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:05 Leave me alone. I know how to cook a steak, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:07 You don't, you don't tell me how to cook a steak. You let me buy raw milk. Let me buy it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:12 If you let me buy raw meat, let me buy raw milk. Shut the fuck up. Now, are you saying that it's killing people? Okay, where's your evidence? And is pasteurization and homogenization, which does make it more shelf-stable and it make it so that you could, you know, you can keep it in the refrigerator for a long time and it's still fine, you know, it has a expired by date.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:33 Raw milk goes bad quick. So, should you drink the bad raw milk? No, definitely not. But is there anything probably-

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:39 There's probably a limit on how much you should have.

Joe Rogan 30:40 ... super beneficial about drinking the raw milk? Well, there seems to be a lot of evidence, as long as it doesn't have bacteria in it. Okay, well, how do you prevent that? Well, I feel like we can do that.See, this ... I don't think the solution is-

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:52 It doesn't feel especially well-regulated at the moment.

Joe Rogan 30:53 That's the problem.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:54 I bought it from a guy's muddy van.

Joe Rogan 30:56 Oh. Yeah, that's the problem.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:57 And then as I was vomiting and shitting, I was like, "This doesn't feel natural."

Joe Rogan 30:59 You gotta get it-

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:00 I'm not a cow.

Joe Rogan 31:00 ... from a reputable farmer. But if you do get it-

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:02 I don't know where that guy is.

Joe Rogan 31:02 ... from a reputable farm ... They exist. There's, like, a whole-

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:05 Can I hit up Sye's list?

Joe Rogan 31:06 ... website where you can find raw milk, 'cause people are raw milk nuts.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:09 Which is also what turns me off to raw milk, the raw milk crazies.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:12 I mean, I got it. I... With... For about six hours, I thought I had-

Joe Rogan 31:16 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:16 ... the greatest insight anybody had ever had. This is the special milk, we should all be having it.

Joe Rogan 31:20 Until it started blowing out your body.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:22 Oh.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Maybe you just drank too much.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:23 I did... Everyone else in the family was fine. My wife, my kids-

Joe Rogan 31:26 They all drank it?

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:27 ... they had a little bit, they had a little bit.

Joe Rogan 31:28 Yeah, you probably drank too much.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:29 And they were fine.

Joe Rogan 31:29 I mean, if you drink too much of anything, you'll get diarrhea. And think about, like, how much you're, you're dealing with how much, like, milk fat and how much liquid.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:38 It was too good.

Joe Rogan 31:39 You can get diarrhea just from that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:40 I overdosed on the milk.

Joe Rogan 31:42 Yeah. That's ... I wouldn't blame the milk.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:43 I never had a milk problem before then, though. And the pasteurized milk?

Joe Rogan 31:45 So, now you have a milk problem with cow's milk?

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:46 Now I-

Joe Rogan 31:47 How so?

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:47 I shit, uh-

Joe Rogan 31:49 Every time?

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:49 ... immediately. Oh, a big, heavy, weird ...

Joe Rogan 31:51 So, it gave you lactose intolerance?

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:53 It happ- ... I liked the milk so much, I don't wanna blame the milk. But I will say-

Joe Rogan 31:57 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:57 ... it happened at the same time.

Joe Rogan 31:58 Okay. So, is-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:00 (laughs) It's correlative.

Joe Rogan 32:01 But from then on, are you getting lactose intolerance every time you drink raw milk or regular milk?

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:06 Regular milk. Maybe-

Joe Rogan 32:07 Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:08 Maybe my body got used to the beautiful raw milk and it would only happen again.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Then you get a little diarrhea, mate.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:11 Think I'm gonna have a hard time selling that to the wife. We're getting the raw milk back in the house.

Joe Rogan 32:15 Yeah, that might be it, dude. I know that sounds crazy, but that might be it. Like, your body might prefer real milk, and now that it knows what real milk-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:24 It's in protest.

Joe Rogan 32:24 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:24 It's like, "Fuck you with this boiled damn shit."

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:27 What has happened with the bread? But I think this happened-

Joe Rogan 32:29 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:29 I mean, something, something's happening with the bread in America-

Joe Rogan 32:32 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:32 ... that's like-

Joe Rogan 32:33 Like, I don't-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:33 My hands feel swollen.

Joe Rogan 32:34 I don't personally have any problem with homogenized and pasteurized milk. Like, when I drink it, it doesn't make me feel bad. I don't feel great, but I, I'll ... will do it if I have, like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:42 ... cookies and milk. But-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:44 Oh, cookies and milk?

Joe Rogan 32:45 Yeah. But I don't think that you should be able to tell people that they can't sell raw milk. I think you should tell people, "If you're gonna sell raw milk, it has to meet some certain standards."

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:55 Sure.

Joe Rogan 32:56 You have to have certain standards of how you cool it, what you're doing, making sure everything's clean, everything has to be inspected. But they do that with other stuff. That's what the USDA inspection on meat is.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:05 But also, those standards are definitely put together by big business-

Joe Rogan 33:07 But that's th-

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:07 ... to crush small people.

Joe Rogan 33:08 But they do it that way anyway with meat.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:11 This is my point.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:12 They d- ... There's USDA inspections. They have to make sure that the processing place is clean, everything's supposed to be u- uh, under-

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:18 But then even then, they still do the, like, you know, for a ... Like, a burger used to be one cow, and they'd grind that bit up.

Joe Rogan 33:23 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:23 And now it's, like, a thousand cows coming together.

Joe Rogan 33:25 Right, I don't think there's laws against that. Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:27 I think ... I don't ... I think that if you ... The, the cow thing is a weird thing, like, when ... And you're getting burgers that have, like, a thousand cows DNA in it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:35 It is a weird thing. But I mean, it is just meat. Right? It's like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:40 But I think those standards are put there by the big corpo- ... Like, I, I was thinking about, uh, like housing zones and districting. Like, in Australia, the median house price is $1 million. It's ... You just ... you can't buy ... No one in my generation is buying a home. It's a weird-

Joe Rogan 33:54 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:55 S- ... There's so much land, there's a lot of stuff. You should just be able to, like, whip up a slum with the, with your bros. You go to a valley where no one is and you all live in a ... That would be better to some extent, rather than, like, renting in a horrible thing forever. You go ... You used to be able to just, like, build a horrible thing. You know? There was no building regulations. Sometimes the ceiling would collapse and people would die, but-

Joe Rogan 34:16 So, you think that's better, to have no regulations?

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:19 I th- ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:20 Really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 34:21 But that's how, like, stadiums collapse on people in third world countries.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:25 No doubt bad things will also happen.

Joe Rogan 34:27 No, that's a dumb idea.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:28 I-

Joe Rogan 34:28 Yeah, d-

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:28 ... I'm not saying no regulation.

Joe Rogan 34:29 D-

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:29 All right? I'm gonna walk back no regulation.

Joe Rogan 34:31 Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:31 But it would be nice if the regulation was somehow written just with the safety in mind, and not so that ... I mean, there are insane re- ... Like, there are buildings up now that are perfectly safe that wouldn't pass code if they were built today. You couldn't build them again now.

Joe Rogan 34:44 Why wouldn't they pass code?

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:45 'Cause they do things like, you know, the door has to be this far away from the stairs, the ceiling has to be this height-

Joe Rogan 34:51 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:51 Th- th- ... It, it needs eight fire beeping detectors.

Joe Rogan 34:56 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:56 And the same way that ... You know, like, you can't cut hair without getting a degree. You need, like, a certificate to be a hairdresser. And they go, "This is to make haircutting safer." But, like, people were cutting hair without-

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Joe Rogan 36:40 Okay, cutting hair is not as big an issue. I think we should go back to the houses.

James Donald Forbes McCann 36:43 All right, go ahead.

Joe Rogan 36:44 Like-... if you want to save lives, you, you want houses that you can escape in a, in the case of a fire. And if you don't hold-

James Donald Forbes McCann 36:53 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 36:53 ... if you don't hold the builder accountable, the person who's making that house, even if they're making it for themselves, they will then sell that house to someone else most likely. And that person will not be in a house that's necessarily the safest it could be. It just makes sense-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:09 It would result in big problems.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Yeah, it makes sense to-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:12 So I'm for it.

Joe Rogan 37:12 But it makes sense... No, no, no, no, no. It makes-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:14 I-

Joe Rogan 37:14 You, you have to be c-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:15 And-

Joe Rogan 37:15 Listen, uh, when I was a kid, I grew up in construction sites. My father was an architect. My stepdad was an architect.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:21 So when I was real young, I got to see like real shitty construction, how dangerous it is when people like fuck around, don't follow code.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:31 Yes.

Joe Rogan 37:31 Wha- How many like shady guys do a bad job, how many people try to like use lesser materials than they're supposed to be used. It's constant. And if you don't have regulation, you, you, peop- you put people's lives at stake. Because houses collapse-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:44 I don't think America has the same problem with regulation here, 'cause you guys seem to be able to build houses, like houses-

Joe Rogan 37:50 Well, we have a lot of regulations though. Like that's, it's a giant-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:52 There's a lot of regulations but they certainly want to do them wrong.

Joe Rogan 37:54 ... it's a giant point of contention with people.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:56 There's a way to do it and a way that is just to help industry make house prices stay high.

Joe Rogan 38:00 Well, that's true too. Both things could be true. I think there, there's definitely people that take advantage of regulation, and there's definitely people that most likely stifle other businesses' growth through promotion of regulation.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:15 That's probably true too. But also, like for some stuff, like for safety stuff in homes, you fucking need regulation, because if you sell it to my mom, and she doesn't know how anything works-

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:25 ... and then the house catches on fire, 'cause it fucking-

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:26 This would also be banned.

Joe Rogan 38:27 Yeah. It's just, do it the right way. They know how to do it the right way. People have established a system. Now, there's a bunch of shit that's arbitrary, that gets aesthetic, and I'm not in favor of that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:38 When people get to decide what, you know, y- the front of your house should look like or what color you paint it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:44 I mean, you can make something safer forever though, and there's no limit. There's no like, there's no-

Joe Rogan 38:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:49 ... zero that you can reach of safety.

Joe Rogan 38:50 Yeah, but you can reas-

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:51 And there comes a point where the effort goes up to the extent where it's not.

Joe Rogan 38:54 No, but you hit a reasonable level, and then you stop, and that's what the regulations are.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:57 We never stop. I mean, I think with driver's licenses, you should have some, uh, test for competency to drive a car.

Joe Rogan 39:04 100%.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:05 It should be something.

Joe Rogan 39:05 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:05 Yeah, when, I mean, when, in Australia, when I was trying to get... I didn't get my license till I was like 27, 'cause it took forev- like-

Joe Rogan 39:10 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:11 ... you gotta get 100 hours registered.

Joe Rogan 39:12 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:12 You gotta do a weird test.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:13 I got a driver's license in Ohio, where I don't think road fatalities are that much higher than the rest of the wor... And then, you know, you get in the car, you drive around the block, the guy goes, "You know how to operate this vehicle. We're gonna say it's not gonna cost, you know, $1,000." And-

Joe Rogan 39:27 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:28 ... it's more straightforward. There's like, there's a balance to be gotten, to be gotten right. And I think-

Joe Rogan 39:33 100%. I think you're 100% right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:35 ... I relish in America that you're closer to the freedom side of things-

Joe Rogan 39:39 100%.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:40 ... than the regulatory side.

Joe Rogan 39:40 Def- definitely much more than Australia is, and you got to see that during the pandemic too. But the, the thing is like, there's a difference between over-regulation and Wild West, right? There's like a fine line.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:53 There's like a, there's a comfortable middle. And I think that middle has to be fought for. Because I think it really is important to have people that are actually experts, that their job is to make sure that someone builds a house correctly, go and look and make sure you do. But then again, you open the door, the possibility that inspector guy's a douchebag.

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:12 Sure.

Joe Rogan 40:12 And that he's got a chip on his shoulder and he's got a big fucking ego and people bribe him. And, you know-

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:17 ... there's, there's always a possibility of that kind of stuff happening too. You know, where people love to have control over people, they love to tell you you can't build, they love to tell you that you got to repaint your house 'cause it's th- the color doesn't match our community.

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:31 But how do you check that? How do you, like what is the... Other than like everyone having a gun and getting ready to-

Joe Rogan 40:35 No. Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:35 ... a simmering level of violence and revolution.

Joe Rogan 40:38 You can't. You gotta fight back before they ever get to that point. It's real hard to regain ground-

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:43 ... once someone takes ground with like ridiculous legislation. Like, look, they've been trying to legalize weed in this country for fucking 50 years and it's, they barely put a dent in it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:51 I don't know how legal it is here.

Joe Rogan 40:54 They've only done it on a state level. They've only done it on a state level. But the point is, it's like once you lose rights-

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:59 ... you know, like if they tried to m- if marijuana was legal just like alcohol, and all of a sudden they tried to make it illegal, people would riot in the streets. Be like, "What are you doing?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:08 "You can't do that," because it wouldn't make sense. People would be furious. But once it's done, even if it's the same exact situation, the same exact data, the same exact safety profile, the same exact number of people using it in the country.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:22 W- It's just, it's been, it's been fucked because it got put into this weird position.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:27 But you guys, you got prohibition. Somehow you got alcohol taken off the streets for-

Joe Rogan 41:33 Yeah, but it was, it was-

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:34 It was bad.

Joe Rogan 41:35 Bad, and it lasted a long time, and it led directly into marijuana prohibition.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:40 Same exact people.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:40 But they just need to find something to have prohibition against afterwards.

Joe Rogan 41:43 How about cartel prohibition? How about that?

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:45 You know, how about fentanyl? Don- stop thinking about things that, that... But then you, you find out like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a... There's a lot tied to this. It's like the alcohol lobby doesn't want marijuana to be legalized.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:57 So they fight against it and they get politicians that are on their side. "Hey Ralph, you're gonna vote for this issue on our side, right?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:04 Th- There's no way Ralph came over.

Joe Rogan 42:05 Ralph-

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:05 Ralph Nader?

Joe Rogan 42:06 No, no, no, not that guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:08 He doesn't do that. But, you know, that's, that's part of the problem too, man. It's like there's a lot of money involved in keeping it illegal and shit, like Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:16 But at least you can have... I think America's one of the only countries that primaries. You can actually like get into a political party and, if there's enough will, you can do something. You can like, you can really change the party.

Joe Rogan 42:26 They, they wouldn't, they wouldn't even allow it for the Democrats.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:28 ... to primary?

Joe Rogan 42:29 For the last election. There was not even-

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:30 On a presidential level, they're more uptight. But on a, like- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:33 W- what does that mean? What does that mean?

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:34 They got the superdelegates and they got secret emails, and it's not good. But the fact that you could even have a system to fuck up-

Joe Rogan 42:41 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:42 ... is, I think, unique to Amer- Like, in, in Britain-

Joe Rogan 42:44 You gotta stick with the system, though.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:45 ... the party picks who the person is. And if you're in the party, you get a huge benefit.

Joe Rogan 42:50 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:50 That you can't have, like, a grass root... You can't have, like, the branch of the party go, "We're putting forward a guy who's... We're gonna primary somebody." You really can primary people in America.

Joe Rogan 42:58 Yes. You can, sort of, but not for president.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:01 Not la- not last time. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:03 I-

Joe Rogan 43:03 And they, they don't let certain people in the primaries. Like, they're keeping RFJ- RFK Jr. out of the primaries.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:08 Yes. And then running as an independent is-

Joe Rogan 43:09 Well, that's not, that's not doing-

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:11 ... very bad.

Joe Rogan 43:11 But that's not good. Why are you keeping-

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:12 I'm not saying you're living up to it. I'm not saying you're living up to the standards you set.

Joe Rogan 43:15 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:15 But you're also the only ones who there's even, like... People go-

Joe Rogan 43:18 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:18 ... "We should be able to do it."

Joe Rogan 43:19 People wanted Trump to lose so badly, they were willing to throw democracy out the window.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:25 That's kind of what it is. I mean, kind of what it is. If you, if that was coming from the Republican side, people would've been outraged.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:33 To do it in the name of democracy was very weird.

Joe Rogan 43:35 Wild.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:36 And then, also, I remember one of the-

Joe Rogan 43:37 It's so Orwellian.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:38 It's like my first week here. There was a Biden speech where he was talking about how, like, violence has no... It was, like, happening on about January 6th and stuff. And he was saying, "Violence has no place in the American system." But then the example he gave was the American Revolution.

Joe Rogan 43:50 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:50 Like, I think that gets w- You're meant to have... I think Benjamin Franklin wanted everyone having an armed uprising every, like, 12 years or something to wipe the slate clean.

Joe Rogan 44:00 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:00 You're meant to... That's part of democracy. Ah, do you know about Castro?

Joe Rogan 44:05 What about him?

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:05 I've just, I've... I'm, I'm in a big Wikipedia wormhole about Castro. I didn't know that he hid that he was a communist until he-

Joe Rogan 44:12 He hid it?

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:12 He wasn't a communist or he kept that quiet. He was, like, a middle-class revolutionary. And then, uh, his brother was a commie, but he was, like... He didn't come out and say he was a communist until later and the CIA helped him. I've, I've been reading Castro speeches.

Joe Rogan 44:25 CIA helped him take over Cuba?

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:25 It looks like the CIA might've been... And then towards the end, they said-

Joe Rogan 44:28 Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:28 ... "We gotta get out of this. This is no good."

Joe Rogan 44:30 (sighs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:31 They really, they changed horses.

Joe Rogan 44:33 Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:34 They were really involved on both sides, but they were, uh...

Joe Rogan 44:36 D- do we do that everywhere?

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:39 Y- there's one Aussie-

Joe Rogan 44:40 This country is so wild.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:40 There's one Aussie that you might've done. Uh, Gough Whitlam might've been taken out by the CIA.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:46 No, he was, uh... He was also a problem, and people were quite happy to have him go. But the governor general, man...

Joe Rogan 44:53 Bro.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:53 I don't have to go into too much detail. It's... Look it up, Pine Gap. You have a military base in Australia, and he wanted to, like, get rid of it or get off American energy subsidies or something.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Oh, boy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:02 And then all of a sudden he was removed.

Joe Rogan 45:05 Oh, boy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:06 And we haven't rocked that boat again.

Joe Rogan 45:08 We are so good at that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:10 Between us and the Israelis. The Israelis do the wildest assassinations. Like, did you see the one of them that they did with the Iranian generals? Let's see, make sure that this is true, Jamie.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:19 I can get my visa removed for criticizing Israel.

Joe Rogan 45:22 No, no, no. It's, this is a, this is not a criticism.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:23 So I wanna say I'm impressed by their beautiful assassinations.

Joe Rogan 45:26 This is not a, this is not a criticism.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:28 This is saying, like, "This is one of the most gangster things I've ever seen in my life." They made a fake phone call to all these military leaders and said, "Everybody's gotta meet at the bunker," and then they blew the bunker up.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:39 That's very Godfather, what they're doing.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Bro, it's gangster as fuck.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:43 And then you add that to the pagers. They, they sent-

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:46 Pagers.

Joe Rogan 45:46 ... pagers out. Like, didn't they send them out, like, a long time in advance?

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:49 Yeah. I think so. And they got in on the supply side of it.

Joe Rogan 45:54 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:54 Like, they made the pagers and managed to...

Joe Rogan 45:56 Bro. Cr- I mean, you think about how incompetent some forms of our government are.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:02 And then how good they are at killing people that they want dead. It's pretty impressive.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:07 They could do that with pot holes in the Midwest, that would be great.

Joe Rogan 46:09 I know, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:09 If we could move people out of the CIA and into there.

Joe Rogan 46:10 That same level of int- Well, that's not CIA. That's the Mossad. But that's the same level of inten- or the IDF or whoever does it over in Israel. But the same level of intensity with other things, you could dominate the world.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:22 I mean, we could get a train going.

Joe Rogan 46:24 We could fix, fix all the poverty.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:26 An actual... We could... High-speed rail in Texas. I believe in it.

Joe Rogan 46:29 Imagine if they took that same kind of ingenuity and tried to fix poverty in America.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:33 Brian Simpson said it good. He was on stage for Bottom of the Barrel, and he knocked... Like, someone knocked the barrel over and they all had to pick it up, and he goes, "That's the one thing that could go wrong. We should really fix that. We're never going to. That's like America."

Joe Rogan 46:45 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:45 "We have the resources to make sure that never happens, and we won't."

Joe Rogan 46:49 (sighs) Yeah. No, we won't, but it's... We put all of our effort into making shit that kills people quicker. That's like the most amount of money, the most amount of effort, other than, like, consumer goods.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:00 I would, I would say also sport. Is it some weird, very high level here?

Joe Rogan 47:04 Because that's war.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:06 It is tre- It is a very militarized society. Everyone's getting ready to... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:11 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:12 I, yeah, I mean, football is just military strategy.

Joe Rogan 47:15 Have you ever seen Serbians play basketball?

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:17 Uh, yes.

Joe Rogan 47:19 Bro.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:19 Yeah, I've seen clips of that.

Joe Rogan 47:20 You've seen scrips of, clips of the Serbian-

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:21 Yugoslavia stronger together.

Joe Rogan 47:23 ... Serbian crowds play basketball?

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:25 They're big.

Joe Rogan 47:25 If that shit doesn't feel like war, the way the crowd is responding-

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:28 ... the cheering, the fucking enthusiasm. Like, dude. I watch it all the time just for inspiration. It makes me goosebumps.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:33 They're also the only guys other than Black guys who can compete in... It's the only whites who are contributing to basketball at this point, is the Yugoslavian whites.

Joe Rogan 47:41 Yeah, they're giant whites from a warlike culture.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:44 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:44 No one else... Sometimes an Aussie gets through. We've had, like, two Aussies break through.

Joe Rogan 47:47 Bro, Serbian fighters are terrifying. Th- the dudes from, like, the Caucus region, like all the guys from-

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:53 ... like Dagestan-

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:54 They've been at it for-

Joe Rogan 47:55 ... Georgia. Animals.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:57 They couldn't get it to work.

Joe Rogan 47:58 Dude, s- someone just printed something or posted something about the UFC's top pound-for-pound list, and six of 'em are from the Caucus region. Six of 'em.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:09 That seems high.

Joe Rogan 48:11 That's so high. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:11 But there's also... Sometimes that's like a genetic... Like, all the r- Like, marathon runners tend to be from one mountain in Kenya, there's like-

Joe Rogan 48:20 Like, the elite of the elite?

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:21 Yeah. Like, people go, "Black people are good at marathon running." But then when you boil it down, it's like, okay, about 90% of them are from Kenya and then 90% of those people are from one mountain in Kenya, where, like, the air is very...... thin.

Joe Rogan 48:32 Oh, so they've adapted to that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:33 There's a book called Taboo, which is about race difference in the, in like all sports.

Joe Rogan 48:39 Uh-huh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:40 And they break, and they're like, "You're this likely to..." You know, "You can't be a white corner." Now there is one I think, but like-

Joe Rogan 48:46 Rare.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:47 ... but there are... It's very rare and it's very strange, and some of it's social stuff.

Joe Rogan 48:50 Mm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:50 But a lot of it is, uh, like I was reading a thing about Mexicans (laughs) can't get knocked out.

Joe Rogan 48:57 That's not true.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:58 No, there must be some, but there's like some gene that is very common in the Mexican population that makes it less likely that you'll be knocked out.

Joe Rogan 49:05 What? Really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:06 And I think that's why they have lots of boxers. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm half-remembering-

Joe Rogan 49:11 Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:11 ... something I read on Wikipedia late at night.

Joe Rogan 49:13 Wouldn't that be crazy if they have such a history of boxing that boxing has somehow or another gotten into their genes to have strong chins?

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:19 What came first?

Joe Rogan 49:21 Yeah, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:21 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:21 The chicken or the egg.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:22 Am I right?

Joe Rogan 49:23 Any connection to Mexican men and the specific gene ACTN3? Saw a video on how Mexicans are so good at boxing. Mexico's produced 209 champions. That's pretty incredible. Video explains how Mexicans supposedly have a gene that has the ACTN3, which determines endurance and/or strength, one or the other. I was wondering, is there any truth to this? What's the answer?

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:44 This is about what I need to believe something, is a Reddit post from four years ago. I don't-

Joe Rogan 49:49 Now if you, if you look down there, is this just one person's post? Did someone answer them?

Guest 2 (unidentified) 49:53 Well, that's... I didn't want to get into the answers because you never know. That's where, like his point, you never know where this goes.

Joe Rogan 49:57 (laughs) Right.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 49:58 I was just gonna start there and then start looking around.

Joe Rogan 50:00 Uh, let's find out if there's, yeah-

Guest 2 (unidentified) 50:02 Okay.

Joe Rogan 50:02 ... anything to that. It's fascinating. But I would wonder, because if like you think about like the history of boxing-

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:09 ... boy, Mexico has such a history of boxing. And also, there's uh, high level poverty. So whenever there's a high level of poverty, there's a lot of-

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:17 Sure.

Joe Rogan 50:17 ... sports where you don't need a lot of money to play them. Soccer's one.

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:21 Um, boxing's another one. You just need gloves, and you could just fuck around, and guys can be good.

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:26 If I'm get... So there's a... I was doing a bit about this, and I could never get it to like really fly. But like Kyrgyzstan, they have a wife wrestling... You wrestle a woman into a van if you want to marry a woman in Kyrgyzstan. You like-

Joe Rogan 50:38 Today?

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:38 Yeah. They call it Ala Kachu.

Joe Rogan 50:41 Ala Kachu.

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:41 And there's a big Wikipedia page on that. But you gotta get this lady in the van against her will, and then once she gets in the van, she's so ashamed, that she marries you.

Joe Rogan 50:48 Oh, boy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:48 But like the one sport they're good at at the Olympics is women's freestyle wrestling.

Joe Rogan 50:53 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:53 They're great at that. So what came first, the medals or the van? Did they have to get good at wrestling because men kept putting them in vans, or were they so good at wrestling, the men were like, "Let's let them show off their beautiful skills"?

Joe Rogan 51:03 That's a really good question. I would imagine they were fending off men for a long time.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:08 A long time.

Joe Rogan 51:09 So they had to develop technique.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:11 I assume it was a horse before it was a van.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:14 You can wrestle... Because they only got the van quite late.

Joe Rogan 51:17 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:17 There's no way. (laughs) Anyway, that's a... One day I'm gonna make that fly as a bit.

Joe Rogan 51:20 Yeah, that's... If it's a part of your culture, I would, you know... Jesus.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:25 Yes.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Bride kidnapping. Jesus Christ.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 51:28 I think it's very traditional.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:29 Yeah, there's a lot of vice, uh... We are breaking the law, says Mediev.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 51:33 But everyone understands it's tradition and you can't change it.

Joe Rogan 51:36 Wow, member of a local government, a small village, outside of Kyrg's capital. How do you say that? Bishkek? Bishkek, you think?

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:43 Uh, your guess is-

Joe Rogan 51:43 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:43 ... as good as mine.

Joe Rogan 51:44 But everyone here understands it's a tradition, and you can't change it. Oh, okay. (laughs) Mediev kidnapped his wife, Elmira, more than 10 years ago. He is one of many Kyrgs men who have gotten married through the Central Asian practice of bride kidnapping.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:59 And they go like 80% of the time it's consensual.

Joe Rogan 52:02 Oh, no.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:02 Like they organize... But then 20% of the time, you're just wrestling a woman into a van against her will.

Joe Rogan 52:07 So there are consensual kidnappings, where two people know each other and it's kind of role-playing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:12 Then there's full-on, off-the-street abductions. Unfortunately, they both look the same.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:17 You really want a safe word for that.

Joe Rogan 52:18 Whoa. It could be hard to tell if the girl you see crying for her mom and clawing at the faces of her abductors is merely acting out her part for her boyfriend and his family's sake or is actually on her way to being married against her will. Like what the fuck?

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:32 Very important they'd be able to tell the difference-

Joe Rogan 52:35 Jesus.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:35 ... I would say. I don't want to pass judgment on the people of Kyrgyzstan.

Joe Rogan 52:38 This is, this is the thing about the world. If you go back like 6,000, 7,000 years ago, it was all like that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:47 You can go back to 100 years ago, and everyone... They were foot binding in China. They were having beautiful-

Joe Rogan 52:51 They're still doing it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:52 They're... No. They can't still be binding the feet.

Joe Rogan 52:54 There's photos of it. You can-

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:55 They're still foot binding in China?

Joe Rogan 52:57 Yes. I mean, I don't know how widely practiced it is. There are older ladies-

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:00 ... when they stopped. But I don't think it was that long ago. Like there's people that are alive right now that have those feet.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:05 Well, I'm for it. You don't want some filthy peasant foot on your wife. You want it humble, graceful. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:11 Bro, you better keep those socks on.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:13 They do. I was reading about-

Joe Rogan 53:14 But those, those feet are weird.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:16 They are. They look like they're folded in on themselves.

Joe Rogan 53:18 Oh, it looks so painful to walk on them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:20 A great one... So, I think it's Cameroon, they do chest binds. Like they, they flatten the woman's... When she starts getting breasts, they like...

Joe Rogan 53:27 (inhales deeply)

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:27 You flatten the breasts. But what's weird is that it's the Christian progressive people who are doing it. Because the culture is once a woman has breasts, she has to get married, and she has to come out of school. So because you love your daughter, you iron the boobs down so that she doesn't have to get married for a couple years. Isn't that funny?

Joe Rogan 53:45 (laughs) Jesus Christ. How about the-

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:46 They should put an end to it. Oh.

Joe Rogan 53:49 Uh, last shoe factory making Lotus shoes closed in 1999.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:53 1999.

Joe Rogan 53:53 Wow.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:54 They could be some Michael Jordan Lotus shoes out there.

Joe Rogan 53:57 (laughs) Lotus shoes. Oh my God. So when did this start?

Guest 2 (unidentified) 54:03 Well, that's the 1200s or something like... It was, uh-

Joe Rogan 54:06 Wow. The 1200s?

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:08 We gotta... Oh, we got the feet. We got the feet.

Joe Rogan 54:10 Look at that lady's foot. Look at that lady's foot.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:11 We got the feet.

Joe Rogan 54:11 Look at that. That is so crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:13 I just see, I just see beauty. I just see-

Joe Rogan 54:16 I see painful pinky toes.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 54:18 Yeah, she doesn't seem happy.

Joe Rogan 54:18 How is that lady ever gonna take like an aerobics class? Look, look how it's become a part-

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:23 That's so beautiful.

Joe Rogan 54:23 ... of the bottom of her foot. That's so-

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:25 ... crazy. How badly does that fuck with your back and-

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:28 It's so big on that screen. I'd never seen them that big before.

Joe Rogan 54:31 Oh, bro-... those feet are busted up.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:34 But, uh, commies stamped it out, mostly, I think.

Joe Rogan 54:37 The commies did? Well, it's probably-

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:38 The commies, I think Mao got rid of it.

Joe Rogan 54:39 You can't work.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:40 No, you gotta be... Yeah, you can't partake in the great glorious revolution. Oh, the lotus shoe? They are beautiful shoes.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Ugh. That's so crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:49 You can't buy them.

Joe Rogan 54:51 Yeah, why not? You ever note? (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:51 You go straight to shopping.

Joe Rogan 54:52 You never know what happens. Is that the same thing? No, that's a brand name.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 54:54 I don't know. I'd actually like to see what's happening.

Joe Rogan 54:55 That's a brand name.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:56 You walk into your house and saw O.J. Simpson merchandise-

Joe Rogan 54:58 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:59 ... and foot-bound lotus shoes?

Joe Rogan 55:00 (laughs)

Guest 2 (unidentified) 55:01 Actually, the driver is pretty good.

Joe Rogan 55:02 Oh, that's hilarious. What a fucked-up practice.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:07 Yeah, there's a lot of them.

Joe Rogan 55:08 Yeah, what about the one where women put plates in their lips?

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:11 Oh, plates in the lip, the neck extension?

Joe Rogan 55:13 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:14 I love the ring neck extension.

Joe Rogan 55:15 The ring neck extensions don't even make sense. Like, ho- how does that work? Like, if you take it off, will your head fall off? Like, uh, do you have any muscles left?

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:25 I think it just shrinks.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Do you have any muscles left to support your head?

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:28 I would doubt it.

Joe Rogan 55:29 Like, do you have to keep that on for the rest of your life?

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:30 I don't think they're meant to be that long.

Joe Rogan 55:32 No. Oh, bro-

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:32 I think that's-

Joe Rogan 55:33 Bro, that's fucking insane.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:35 That's insane.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:36 This one guy saw a giraffe-

Joe Rogan 55:38 Bro, that's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:38 ... and he was like, "Can we do that?"

Guest 2 (unidentified) 55:39 No.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:39 "That's hot."

Joe Rogan 55:41 That's so ins-... Is that a Photoshop? Is that a Photoshop?

Guest 2 (unidentified) 55:42 No, it's the same person in multiple photos.

Joe Rogan 55:44 That's, that's really legit?

Guest 2 (unidentified) 55:45 But that's not this one.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:45 But there's a young lady doing it too.

Joe Rogan 55:47 Okay, that can't be real.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:47 That's a Photoshop.

Joe Rogan 55:48 That can't be real.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:49 That can't be real. That lady's head is 15 feet high.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:51 That's like AI. That last one's like AI porno for neck guys.

Joe Rogan 55:54 Bro, that's so dark.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 55:56 It's weird.

Joe Rogan 55:56 That's so weird. Like, I don't like that at all.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:59 Yeah.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 56:00 There's video of it, so-

Joe Rogan 56:01 Oh, don't show me.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:04 Oh, they just keep piling those things on.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 56:06 It's mad.

Joe Rogan 56:06 And fitting them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:09 Yes.

Joe Rogan 56:09 What a, what a weird thing to do to your neck, man. That's gotta suck.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:13 But we do weird stuff. We inject lips.

Joe Rogan 56:15 But bro, that's crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:16 People get fake boners.

Joe Rogan 56:16 She's got a towel under her chin.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:18 No, but they could be watching it being like, "You know, in America, they chop off a little boy's penis and they turn it into a pretend vagina. Isn't that sick and wrong?"

Joe Rogan 56:25 Well, they probably do that there too. And I would agree with them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:28 That's true. That's a very important part of our culture.

Joe Rogan 56:29 I wonder if they do do it. You know, I, I... Someone in the green room was saying the other day that the reason why there's so many lady boys in Thailand was because being homosexual was illegal. Is that true?

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:43 Well, isn't it legal everywhere?

Guest 2 (unidentified) 56:44 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 56:45 This person that said it is just... They said it in passing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:48 I don't know if it was true. And I was... I meant to google it, and I totally forgot until now.

James Donald Forbes McCann 56:51 Yeah. I mean, it could be... I'm pretty sure it was illegal all over the place, and no one else was doing that. No one else had that particular reaction.

Joe Rogan 57:00 That's true. Well, you know, that's the, the thing about, um, um... What is that fucker? Turing, Alan Turing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:07 Alan Turing was the guy who invented the Turing test.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:10 And he was gay, and they-

Joe Rogan 57:11 Yeah, and they fucking poisoned him. They gave him, like, hormone blockers.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:15 They... Was it just because he was gay?

Joe Rogan 57:16 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:17 There were so many gay British guys, though, who were-

Joe Rogan 57:20 Yeah, but he was like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:20 They had, like, a long history of... Like Oscar Wilde, everyone knew he was gay, and it was only when he went after a guy's son that I think they went.

Joe Rogan 57:26 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:27 Hey. Yeah, I think he went after a guy's young son.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Well, they could always target you for it, though, if it's, uh...

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:31 If they wanna get you for something else, they will.

Joe Rogan 57:33 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:33 They use that.

Joe Rogan 57:34 And-

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:34 But I think Byron was off.

Joe Rogan 57:35 But he was, like, hospitalized. Legality of same sex activity. Private adult consensual and non-commercial sodomy was de-... (laughs) was decriminalized in Thailand in 1956. However, same sex attraction and transgender identities were still seen as socially unacceptable in many cases. Those with gender expression or behavior falls out of social norms are less likely to be tolerated or accepted. So, wha- what happened?

Guest 2 (unidentified) 58:02 I think ju- just this year, the- they've allowed same sex marriage.

Joe Rogan 58:07 In t-... Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:08 They've allowed adoption from this year, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 58:11 Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:11 ... that's very late to it because I think a lot of gay couples have been going there to get children for a long time, and now they're saying, "You can have them here."

Joe Rogan 58:18 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:19 Like, that's a big... That's not spoken about, is the, the rent-a-womb and the...

Joe Rogan 58:25 It's kind of bizarre.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:26 I'm against it.

Joe Rogan 58:27 It's very strange. The idea of a surrogate is very odd. Like, you're having a baby, but it's not really you having the baby. Like, okay, I get it if someone can't have a baby, the couple wants to have a baby, they hire a surrogate. I get it. It's your genes, it's your baby, but it's still... It's like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:41 But also, there's... I mean, I know Elon has, like, a lot of kids with different ladies.

Joe Rogan 58:45 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:46 But then, I mean, that's the public one. He's like a- a pub-... one of the only public-facing billionaires. There's gotta be guys out there who are like, "I'm getting, I'm getting 10,000 kids. I'm like... Take my cum and move it out across... I'm gonna be Genghis Khan with science."

Joe Rogan 59:00 Well, guys have done that that are doctors.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:03 They just put their own cum in the-

Joe Rogan 59:04 Oh, yeah. You ever seen-

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:05 There's a big-

Joe Rogan 59:05 I do a bit about one of those guys.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:05 There's a big- there's a breakout case in Adelaide at the moment. There's a guy who's... There's maybe 1,000 siblings in Adelaide, my hometown, at the moment.

Joe Rogan 59:10 Oh, man. It's... E- every time guys get a chance, they do it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:14 Surrogacy has a long history dating back to ancient times, with real examples found in Babylon and the Bible. While it traditionally involved natural conception, modern surrogacy, including artificial insemination and in-vitro fertilization has been developed through scientific and legal advancements. Okay, but the thing is, it's like the- they're just playing with words. Hold on.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 59:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:32 Just go back. Because they're saying surrogacy for someone having sex with someone and getting them pregnant and having a baby.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:39 That's not surrogacy. You gotta pregnant with-

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:42 That's a mistress.

Joe Rogan 59:43 You... Yeah. You-

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:43 You got another lady pregnant, that's all that is. So what we think of as surrogacy is-

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:49 is you taking an embryo and inserting it into another woman's womb, right? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:54 That's a completely new thing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:56 And I think it's very-

Joe Rogan 59:57 That's where it's weird because-

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:59 ... it's common in, like, wives of soldiers.

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 The other one's like an agreement.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 Like, if the wife can't get pregnant, but she wants to have a baby and she says, "Listen, if you fuck my best friend, she'll have the baby."

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:08 We'll adopt a baby.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 "And then we'll, we'll take care of the baby."

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 "And I know that I can't have babies." But you, you know, if that's... If you guys were that kind of swingers and you're down with that, then that's, that's up to you.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:20 That feels different from science.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 That's not surrogacy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 You just had a baby with a different human.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:24 No, sur- surrogacy seems-

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:26 ... bad and wr-... I'm, I'm, I'm digging in.

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 Well, bro, it's gonna go to artificial wombs, all right? That's gonna be the new one. And whether that's 20 years from now or 50 years from now, th- you're gonna be able to make a baby outside of a human body. It's gonna get real freaky soon.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:42 We gotta be... We gotta draw a hot line.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 1:00:43 When you pulled this up, I was... The IVF thing-

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 1:00:46 Gave me a weird thought. I'm a little stoned thought.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:48 Well, it's not possible how Jesus was born, was it? They didn't have any sort of way to do in vitro fertilization back then- You're saying that our Lord was an IVF baby? ... and they just, like, forgot about it?

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 Could be. Could be that they had that technique.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:58 Jamie, it was the Holy Spirit. I'm just... I, I, I know what they say.

Joe Rogan 1:01:01 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:01 I'm just... But like...

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 Yeah. Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:03 Devil's advocate, obviously, but like-

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 Well, for sure they could have, um, inserted sperm into her. Without her ever-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:10 There was-

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 ... having sex they could-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:11 I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 ... have been pregnant.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:12 I think there's, like, dolphins that can do it. If dolphins are on their own for a long time, then an egg can fertilize another egg.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 What?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:19 It doesn't happen often, but there are examples of it.

Joe Rogan 1:01:21 Really?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:22 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 That's nuts.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:25 I think I believe that I've read that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 You sure?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:28 I've said that loudly-

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Dolphin mammals?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:29 ... and confidently at a party before.

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Mammals?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:31 It might have been. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 That sounds so crazy that a mammal could do that.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 1:01:35 But dolphins don't lay eggs. Oh, inside, I guess.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 Inside of them? They can inseminate their own-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:38 I'd be so happy if I was right. I think it's, like, a couple examples of autoinsemination.

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 So it's like one of the eggs has so much jizz in it that it leaks out and gets into the other eggs?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:47 You get a very, you get a very butch egg.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 Yeah, you get-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:48 You get a trans egg.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 You get... Maybe one of the eggs is male and it just jizzes on the other egg.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:53 You're not... It's an early developer.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:56 It's a... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Just, like, comes out of... Maybe jizz is, like, in some of them out of the box.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:01 I think there's virgin birth in nature. It's not common.

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 Well, there's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:04 It doesn't happen a lot, but it is possible.

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 Definitely animals switch genders. The, the animals, like, especially, like, primitive reptilian-type fucking weird animals-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 ... they can... There's ce- there's certain animals that can switch their genders.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:17 I think seahorse ladies have a penis.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 I think so.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:20 Am I getting that?

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 You know hyenas have a penis, females.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:23 No, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 Bigger than the males.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:26 Just for show? Just for-

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 No, they dominate the males. The, they're bigger than the-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:29 They peg the males with it?

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 Yes. Female t- hyenas, they're, they're one of the rare matriarchal mammals. So the females are bigger than the males-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 ... they have more testosterone than the males, and they have bigger dicks. And they hold the males down, "Look here, you want some of this pussy?" And then the male has to take his little dick and stick it inside of her big dick.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:50 Oh, but the big lady dick-

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 And that's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:52 ... just slapping against his belly?

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Yeah, you want to hear even worse? 60% of all hyenas that are born suffocate to death during childbirth coming out of that dick.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:01 Why?

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 'Cause they're coming out of the dick.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:02 They come out of the dick?

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Uh-huh. Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:04 The vagina's on the tip of the dick?

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 No, it's, it's really a vagina.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:08 Come on. Hold on.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 It's a vagina, but it's like a long dick.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:10 Can we see the hyena-

Guest 2 (unidentified) 1:03:11 Say that first, okay?

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Oh, it's, it's bananas. It's bananas.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:14 I wanna... 'Cause I-

Joe Rogan 1:03:15 It's called... They call it, like, a faux penis.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:17 Man, I think last time Shane came on here, I think you guys were talking about the trans penises, and then he just kept texting me the trans penises and I forgot about it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 Oh, he's horrible at that. He's horrible.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:25 He's like up in the middle of the night doing trans penis.

Joe Rogan 1:03:26 He shows you these skin graft scars and you're like, "What am I looking at?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:30 Why is it so much bigger than mine?

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:32 Why can't you have a humble penis? I've gotta see. Wow.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 1:03:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:36 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 So female hyenas have this giant fake dick and, um-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:41 Ah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 Yeah, it's huge.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:42 They have to put their pe- the, the-

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 That's why-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:44 ... boys have to put their dicks in?

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 Exactly, and that's how the, the babies come out of that. And a lot of the babies die on the way out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 They suffocate to death.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:50 We've gotta destroy all the hyenas.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 60%, I think. I think that's the number. Make... Let's make-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:55 Feels like 10, man.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 ... sure that that's the correct number.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 I'm, I'm pretty sure it is. I think it's six-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:58 The hyena people will be furious if that's not.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 60% suffocate during childbirth, and then on top of that, like, then they fight over who gets the nipple and some of them get killed.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:09 Well, that's why they're so unhappy all the time-

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:11 ... in The Lion King.

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 They're just in the most ruthless environment and they're not the biggest animals.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:17 All right, come in.

Guest 2 (unidentified) 1:04:17 9 to 18% mortality, uh, first time mother... That's the mother dying.

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Oh, oh, 9 to 18% the mother dies. Jesus Christ.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:27 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 That's crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:29 They got eyes out-

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 Could you imagine 80%-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:32 This... There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 ... of the women dying because they, they're giving birth? Yeah, 60% of all spotted hyena cubs, uh, die in the early stages of life, especially from the first litter. Some scientific observations-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:43 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 ... place the survival rate of firstborn cubs at around 40% or less. Wow.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:48 So siblicide is huge.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Mm-hmm. Siblicide is very huge. They f- they fight to the death over, like, little nipples.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:56 And, like, stepdads, I know, come, well, in the animal kingdom.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 Uh-huh. Well, that's also why female hyenas, I think, are bigger. I think-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:03 So they gotta protect.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 Yeah, I think