Joe Rogan Experience #2361 - Graham Linehan

1. 0:00 – 3:21

   Scooter crash scar, broken nose, and why breathing matters

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music)

   2. GLGraham Linehan0:12

      Yeah. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Yeah. (laughs) So you were telling me about the scar you got on your forehead recently.

   4. GLGraham Linehan0:17

      Yeah, I, uh, I got into a bar fight with some, some guys were insulting a woman.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      You had to take care of business, right?

   6. GLGraham Linehan0:23

      I had to take care of a bit of business.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      (laughs)

   8. GLGraham Linehan0:24

      No, I, I fell off a scooter. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      (laughs)

   10. GLGraham Linehan0:26

       I fell off a scooter. I was riding around Scottsdale, uh, feeling great and free because I'd never ridden a scooter before, because I always thought they ... We called them scooter nonces in, in the UK. And, and because there was no one around to see me, I just thought, "Oh, this is great. I can do this all the time." (laughs) But I just immediately fell flat on my face. But ...

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       Did you hit something or did-

   12. GLGraham Linehan0:48

       No, I saw-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       ... how did you fall?

   14. GLGraham Linehan0:49

       I saw what looked like a ramp.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Ah.

   16. GLGraham Linehan0:51

       But it was a single step down.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       (sucks in breath)

   18. GLGraham Linehan0:54

       So I went flying through the air. And I remember when I landed, there was a weird moment when I landed, where I thought, "Oh, that wasn't so bad. I didn't, I didn't screw myself up too badly." But then there was a second crunch, and I remember thinking, "Oh, I'm dead." (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       What was the second crunch?

   20. GLGraham Linehan1:11

       I don't know. Some- somehow I fell and it went boom, boom.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       Double, so you double fell. Oh.

   22. GLGraham Linehan1:15

       Yeah, yeah. And you know, I kind of like it, 'cause it makes me f- it, it makes me look how I feel internally.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:22

       (laughs)

   24. GLGraham Linehan1:24

       (laughs) You know?

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Busted up and changed.

   26. GLGraham Linehan1:25

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been eight, eight-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       So did it break your nose?

   28. GLGraham Linehan1:28

       No. Oh, I did break my nose, yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       Yeah.

   30. GLGraham Linehan1:30

       Yeah. But, uh, you know. But you know, it's one of those things. I, again, as I say, I quite like it. I think it gives me some character.
2. 3:21 – 6:17

   Functional heroin users, brutal jobs, and “hard times vs soft times”

   1. GLGraham Linehan3:21

      No. There was a, there's a punk poet in the UK named, uh, John Cooper Clarke, who is a bit of a genius, and, uh, he was taking it recreationally for years. And he only gave it up because he said, "So many people were worried about me."

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:33

      (laughs)

   3. GLGraham Linehan3:33

      "I just couldn't, I couldn't deal with it." (laughs) They were just worried about me. But he was one of these guys, I guess like Burroughs, William Burroughs, that he was able to just-

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:40

      Mm-hmm.

   5. GLGraham Linehan3:40

      ... you know, imple- implement it in his life. But, uh ...

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:44

      Well, I worked, well, I worked out with a guy who was a longshoreman and, uh, he had this guy that he worked with that would shoot heroin at lunch every day.

   7. GLGraham Linehan3:54

      Wow.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      And he was fine. He worked fine on the job. He was totally functional.

   9. GLGraham Linehan3:58

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       He would take his hour lunch break, he would go sit in his truck, he'd get a bag from some guy-

   11. GLGraham Linehan4:04

       (sniffs) Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:04

       ... and then he'd sit in his truck and shoot up.

   13. GLGraham Linehan4:06

       Wow. Wow.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:06

       Yeah, like real heroin, like shooting heroin.

   15. GLGraham Linehan4:09

       What, what was his job?

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       He was a longshoreman.

   17. GLGraham Linehan4:11

       Oh, right. Wow.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       So he worked on the docks.

   19. GLGraham Linehan4:13

       (laughs) Holy cow, you'd think he'd have to have your wits about you.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:15

       Well, some of those longs, they did different jobs. Like my buddy was a fish filleting for a long time. So what would happen is you would get these huge trucks filled with fish and they would just fillet fish all day long. And he was a boxing trainer, and so he would rub like Vaseline on your face before you sparred. You just smelled fish.

   21. GLGraham Linehan4:32

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:32

       'Cause he was just, he just smelled like fish all the time. You couldn't get it off of him.

   23. GLGraham Linehan4:37

       Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:37

       It was just a part of his odor.

   25. GLGraham Linehan4:40

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:40

       Forever.

   27. GLGraham Linehan4:41

       Right, right. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:41

       And he'd cut like thousands of fish a day probably.

   29. GLGraham Linehan4:45

       That's like the old dye pits I read in Toronto, in, uh, the job that you didn't want was to work in the dye pits. Because guys, what they'd have to do is they'd have to get into these like human-sized pits filled with dye and wrestle the dye into mater- ... I'm not sure which material it was.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       Oh, Jesus Christ.
3. 6:17 – 7:06

   Social media confession culture and everything becoming political

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:17

      Yeah, man. There's jobs out there that fucking suck. I was watching this video today-

   2. GLGraham Linehan6:21

      (sighs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:21

      ... where this young lady was complaining about her job and that it just consumes her entire life and she doesn't want to do it anymore. And then, like, people were complaining in the comments that she's lazy. I'm like, "No, like, she hates her job." It's entirely reasonable. It's a little kinda crazy that everybody wants to declare to the whole world what their personal issues are, about their opp-... Uh, I mean, th- social media has made it very weird-

   4. GLGraham Linehan6:43

      Hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:43

      ... that all these people just get attention for something that you essentially used to just talk about with friends.

   6. GLGraham Linehan6:50

      Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of the problem, isn't it?

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:52

      Yeah.

   8. GLGraham Linehan6:53

      I mean, I mean, every time we, we make these statements, we make it to a public, so everything becomes political.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:58

      Yes.

   10. GLGraham Linehan6:59

       You know? And s-

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       (sighs)

   12. GLGraham Linehan7:00

       And suddenly everyone's, you know, moaning at you 'cause you say you hate your job. It's such a weird-

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:05

       Such a weird time.

4. 7:06 – 9:50

   Who Graham Linehan is: legendary UK sitcom writer

   1. GLGraham Linehan7:06

      ... time. And th- and this is one of my things, this is one of the things I'm obsessed about. By the way, we better tell people (laughs) who I don't know what this actually is.

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:12

      Yeah, well, Graham, you have a, an inte-... Uh, well, I found out about you from our talent coordinator at the Mothership, who's my good friend, Adam Eggett, who loves you to death. And he loves your work and he loves the shows that you've created, and he's a huge, huge fan.

   3. GLGraham Linehan7:23

      Hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:23

      So this was, uh, all because of Adam.

   5. GLGraham Linehan7:26

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:26

      This all came about because of Adam.

   7. GLGraham Linehan7:28

      Sure.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:28

      And, um, then I heard the story, and I was like, "Oh, my God. They did that guy, that guy dirty. They did him so dirty." And it was one of the exam-... Why don't you tell the story of how it went down, so everybody can kinda get it from your words, which I'm sure will be better than me-

   9. GLGraham Linehan7:42

      Okay.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:43

       ... fucking it up.

   11. GLGraham Linehan7:44

       I'm, I'm, I'm not really good. I've never been good. I spent the last, uh, y- you know, most of my life, I'm 50, 57 now, and I spent most of my life forming a sort of, uh, uh, a sort of... What's the word? Um, m- m-... You know. What's that word? Self-deprecating, humorous personality. So I would come out and I would make fun of myself. I can't do that anymore (laughs) because my situation is so bizarre that anything I say that's self-deprecating will just get reported as truth and all sorts of things. You can't make jokes in my situation, you know? It's so weird. Like-

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:17

       So let's explain your situation-

   13. GLGraham Linehan8:19

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:19

       ... how it started.

   15. GLGraham Linehan8:20

       Well, well, I was a comedy writer. Um, I started writing journalism in, in Ireland when I was very young, about 19 years old. And I, uh, was hanging around with some funny people. We were writing sketches and stuff like that. So I went over to UK, and I got in... I w- w-... I, I was just very... We, we sent our sketches to producers, and we just... We worked very hard to, to get on TV. That succeeded, and then I kept having early success. I had a sitcom called Father Ted, which was about some Irish priests who were so bad that they'd been banished to a tiny island in the middle of nowhere. Um, that was a huge success, probably my biggest success. Um, then I went onto a sitcom, uh, IT Crowd. Black Books was a big one of here. But all of them, I co-wrote or wrote on my own.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:07

       And people have to understand that pe- for people that are fan of English comedy, like, your shows were legendary. These were amazing shows.

   17. GLGraham Linehan9:14

       Thank you. That's really kind of you to say. Um, yeah, they're really big. They're big over there, you know? I mean, some-

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:19

       Yeah, huge.

   19. GLGraham Linehan9:19

       Some of them, some of them travel over here. Black Books did very well over here. And IT Crowd, I think is probably the second most known one over here.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:26

       I think we're suffering a bit from content fatigue.

   21. GLGraham Linehan9:29

       Absolutely. That-

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       It's, there's almost too much to choose from.

   23. GLGraham Linehan9:32

       Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, there's no real reason to... I mean, you know, uh, the only reason I would say to watch them is, is, you know, some of them are... some of them are really, really hit the target, you know? Like-

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:41

       Yeah, some of them are great. L- uh, watch them 'cause they're great, but I'm just saying-

   25. GLGraham Linehan9:44

       (sighs) .

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:44

       ... that the problem with anybody finding out about a new show-

   27. GLGraham Linehan9:47

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:47

       ... today, they're like, "Oh, jeez. Another one I have to pay attention to? How?"

5. 9:50 – 13:38

   AI filmmaking, uncanny valley, and where creativity may shift

   1. GLGraham Linehan9:50

      Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's gotta burst soon. I think we're... I mean, AI means the whole... Who knows what the landscape will be like next year, you know? Of-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:59

      It's weird.

   3. GLGraham Linehan9:59

      Yeah, it really is.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:00

      It's really weird. I watched an amazing video that someone put out today of, uh, a small film that they made just with prompts, and it was some, um, w- cyberpunk thing.

   5. GLGraham Linehan10:12

      Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:13

      Did you see that?

   7. GLGraham Linehan10:14

      I know. It's, it's insane.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:15

      It is the next level.

   9. GLGraham Linehan10:16

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:17

       It's so good (laughs) . It's like, I'd watch that movie.

   11. GLGraham Linehan10:20

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       I mean, and they just made it in a few moments with prompts.

   13. GLGraham Linehan10:23

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:24

       Like, it's over.

   15. GLGraham Linehan10:25

       Yeah, except... I mean, the, the interesting thing though is, I think... I better get back to my story 'cause I, 'cause it's gonna-

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:30

       Oh, we'll, we'll get to it.

   17. GLGraham Linehan10:31

       I've been wor-

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:31

       Don't worry. This is how we do things.

   19. GLGraham Linehan10:33

       But, but the interesting thing is that, um, uh, I think personally, there might be a revolution in those kinda smaller films that just need a few people. Uh, you know. L- what's a good example? Steven Soderbergh's early movies, Tarantino with, uh, with Reservoir Dogs.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       Right.

   21. GLGraham Linehan10:48

       You might find people actually returning to human beings and... 'Cause I don't know. I mean, maybe it'll... I'm sure it will change, but at the moment, there's a real uncanny valley feeling from all of these AI videos, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:58

       Well, this one has an uncanny valley for sure. See if you can find it, Jamie. Uh, cyberpunk. Somebody released it on X. It is w-... I forget which engine use- it, they used.

   23. GLGraham Linehan11:07

       It's extraordinary.

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:07

       You know, there's a battle with all these engines, you know?

   25. GLGraham Linehan11:10

       Yes, I'm-

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       See who's got the best.

   27. GLGraham Linehan11:12

       I'm waiting it out, you know? I mean, w-... I mean-

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:14

       (laughs)

   29. GLGraham Linehan11:15

       ... i- it's just like, uh, like, uh, just tell me what tools I can use to tell stories, and then I'll do them. I, I'm ke-

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:20

       While people are... This is it.
6. 13:38 – 21:41

   From success to exile: “the moment I talked about women’s rights, they took everything”

   1. GLGraham Linehan13:38

      But ba- basically, I was, like, a- a- a very successful comedy writer, probably about as successful as a non-on-screen comedy writer can get in the UK. I won something like six BAFTAs, I think, in the end, five or six BAFTAs. I'm not being stupid, I just gen- genuinely can't remember. And one of them, they didn't give me the plaque for (laughs) , I must tell you that, at some point.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:56

      (laughs)

   3. GLGraham Linehan13:56

      But like, um, but I won them, got a standing ovation at The Comedy Awards, and then the moment I started talking about women's rights, they took everything, absolutely everything away from me. Oh, my-

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      And, so that's your d- this is your version of it.

   5. GLGraham Linehan14:12

      Yes.

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:13

      That w- woman's rights.

   7. GLGraham Linehan14:15

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:15

      And this is a version... This is why it gets real weird. You know? Because w- as soon as you say there are some men that are gonna use this, as soon as you say there are some men who we've known forever have been sexual deviants and perverts and psychotic creeps-

   9. GLGraham Linehan14:35

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:35

       ... and you're giving them an out-

   11. GLGraham Linehan14:37

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:37

       ... instantaneously, you're letting them wear dresses, and now they can't be touched, that is a crazy thing to do.

   13. GLGraham Linehan14:43

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:43

       And that doesn't deny the existence of trans people or in any way be transphobic. It's not saying that a person can't choose to be whoever the fuck they essentially feel they are, their true self.

   15. GLGraham Linehan14:53

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:54

       Well, I don't know how you feel.

   17. GLGraham Linehan14:55

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:55

       I'm not- I don't wanna, in- restrict you, but as soon as you start allowing men in dresses to get into women's spaces, and you frame it that way, you say this is about women's rights, then it's chaos.

   19. GLGraham Linehan15:08

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:08

       Then there's no rational conversation when it should be totally rational.

   21. GLGraham Linehan15:12

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:12

       With those factors, knowing that some men are creeps, knowing that women are more vulnerable, and you're gonna allow these potential creeps to have carte blanche and just go into the women's spaces. Like...

   23. GLGraham Linehan15:22

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:23

       That is an- that you, th- screaming at me-

   25. GLGraham Linehan15:25

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:25

       ... and the calling me a Nazi makes me think I'm over the target.

   27. GLGraham Linehan15:29

       Well, you know, I think, I could be wrong here, this is a theory. You m- you obviously know more about it than me. But, like, I think that when they tried to get you for COVID, I actually think that that was sort of left over from you interviewing Meghan Murphy and Abigail Shrier. I think they really hated that you were giving them a platform. 'Cause when you think of it, no one else did. No one else did. If you look back at Meghan Murphy and Abigail Shrier's appearances, and Abigail Shrier wrote the most important book about transitioning, uh, d- the transitioning of young women, Irreversible Damage, and she's had a terrible time as well. She has-

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:03

       She has had a terrible time.

   29. GLGraham Linehan16:04

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:04

       And- and unfairly because it's a real issue. But this is the thing about a real issue. When real issues come up, the, when there's a real, like, ideological b- debate going on, like, "Hey, what is actually really going on?" That's when things get the most hostile.
7. 21:41 – 22:37

   The first online pile-on: cancer surgery, vicious replies, and friends disappearing

   1. GLGraham Linehan21:41

      My original offense was I think sharing a piece by a feminist named Heather Brunskill-Evans that said exactly what you said just at the begin- uh, you know, a few minutes ago where you said, "Yeah, people have, have things going on in their head. They need to be respected, and they, they need to be helped." I ... and then someone wrote back immediately. (laughs) I w- I was actually, uh, I was actually getting, uh, surgery for cancer at the time, and, uh, someone wrote back and said, "I wish the cancer had won." Right?

   2. JRJoe Rogan22:07

      Jesus.

   3. GLGraham Linehan22:07

      And this was like sharing a very, very mild piece that just basically said women deserve rights. Okay? So that reaction, I thought, "Holy cow." And, and, and, and then ... but the strangest thing was all my friends and colleagues. They just, they just completely ignored what was happening to me. Uh, not a single person stood up to say, "Hey, I know Graeme, I know Graeme Linehan, and he's not a bigot." And I'd made lots of these people famous, you know? Not a single person stood up for me. And, um, the next

8. 22:37 – 26:16

   Police complaints, The Guardian framing, and escalating legal harassment

   1. GLGraham Linehan22:37

      thing that happened was that a, a, a, a sex offender ... we found this out later, but a sex offender and kind of serial litigant in the UK, um, he reported me to the police, sued me on the same weekend, and, uh, and the police, uh, uh, came to my home, uh, or no, they pho- they phoned me that time. Um, and since then, I've been basically ... the police just visit every so often on the orders of these ... and this guy was a sexy- he sexually assaulted a 14-year-old boy, you know? And basically, the police i- in the UK are working for these men.... you know? So, uh-

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:16

      So, he can complain any time he wants and they just visit you?

   3. GLGraham Linehan23:19

      Yeah. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:19

      And there's no repercussions?

   5. GLGraham Linehan23:21

      No. Not so far. He's been doing it for eight years.

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:23

      Geez.

   7. GLGraham Linehan23:23

      And, and he's had women in prison cells overnight. You know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:27

      (sighs)

   9. GLGraham Linehan23:28

      I mean, it's his h- it's, it's his hobby, you know? So, um, this guy was the guy who reported me to police, and then The Guardian reported that as, "Graham Linehan, uh, uh, is, is warned by police for, uh, harassing a trans woman."

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:41

       Jesus Christ.

   11. GLGraham Linehan23:43

       So now everybody is looking at this and they're thinking, "Oh, a trans woman, a transsexual, poor trans sexual." Not a trans ... again, just a bloke who's put on a dress and is, and is taking the piss, you know? So, um, so that, that destroyed my name (laughs) thanks to The Guardian. And then after that, I couldn't get anyone to speak to me. Like, you know, I mean (sighs) , i- i- y- d- did... Father Ted might be big in the UK, but in Ireland it's a bit of a national institution, you know? It, it, it allowed the Irish to laugh at the Catholic Church, which for years had had a sort of a oppressive effect over the Irish. So, they weren't able to laugh at it. And suddenly Father Ted came out and was a great kind of release to be able to laugh at silly things. We weren't really attacking the church, we were just making silly jokes. Very surreal show, you know? Um, and, um, uh, but, but nonetheless, it kind of, uh, it kind of chipped away at, um, at the Catholic Church. And, uh, and the Catholic Church just kind of lost a lot of power in, in, in Ireland. So I thought in Ireland it would be at l- I would be at least understood and, and listened out. People would listen, listen to me, listen me out. Is that the phrase?

   12. JRJoe Rogan24:53

       Yeah. Hear me out.

   13. GLGraham Linehan24:54

       Hear me out. And, um, and no. Like, there's a show in Ireland called The Late Late Show, and like, I brought out my biography (laughs) a few years ago, uh, called Tough Crowd, which I should p- p- uh, uh, I should plug. And The Late Late Show, which interviews every single person who's, who's, who's got a, a, a, the letter O apostrophe in their name, w- hasn't interviewed me. And all of the Irish, Irish media has just pretend I've, I've died. They just pretend I've died, um-

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       All because of that Guardian article?

   15. GLGraham Linehan25:24

       Not just because of that, because I just wouldn't, wouldn't... I refused to back down. They were saying, you know, I was, I was constantly being told to apologize, and I hadn't done anything. I would have people, uh, uh, people online would, would do fake screenshots of me apologizing for sending my, pictures of my genitalia to women on a forum.

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:44

       Jesus.

   17. GLGraham Linehan25:44

       And they spread that. You know, and, and rather than my friends standing up for me (laughs) , people would approach them on Twitter and say, "Why are you following Graham Linehan? He's a bigot." And they would just go, "Oh, sorry." And just unfollow me. And so I lost 300,000, 400,000 followers in a, in, in a few months. Uh, uh, and, uh, and then we went into COVID, and Twitter banned me for two years. So then that became Graham Linehan-

   18. JRJoe Rogan26:11

       Did you had, had... Was there a specific post or was it just because-

   19. GLGraham Linehan26:15

       They, they-

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:15

       ... your reputation?

9. 26:16 – 35:37

   The Alex Jones ‘lesbian app’ episode and how narratives get weaponized

   1. GLGraham Linehan26:16

      N- uh, it was a combination of things. I was g- I was causing more trouble for them by, uh, I don't know. I... What did I do? I went onto the webs- (laughs) This is a funny... This connects me with Alex Jones. Do you know this?

   2. JRJoe Rogan26:28

      (laughs) No.

   3. GLGraham Linehan26:29

      Did, did he... Did Adam not send you this?

   4. JRJoe Rogan26:31

      No, no, no.

   5. GLGraham Linehan26:32

      Oh my God.

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:33

      (laughs)

   7. GLGraham Linehan26:34

      So o- so one of the things I did was I went on an app called Her Social, which is a lesbian app. And I did it to show that men were joining these apps and they weren't... They would... You know, some of them would put on a bit of lipstick, but most of them were just... They would look like you or me (laughs) , you know?

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:49

      Jesus Christ. (laughs)

   9. GLGraham Linehan26:50

      Yeah. And they go onto this app and they say they're... They, they put down their pronouns as she/her.

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:54

       Oh boy.

   11. GLGraham Linehan26:55

       And they call themselves lesbians. Unless... If a lesbian complains about this, they're booted off the site. Okay? So I decided (laughs) -

   12. JRJoe Rogan27:04

       (laughs) .

   13. GLGraham Linehan27:04

       ... I would g- I would go on and, and call myself she/her and go on this site. So I did it. And then I had some friends who put me in Photoshop and did me in different, uh, in different outfits. In one of them, I look like my mother in the '60s, just wearing kind of Jackie Kennedy, uh, pink beret.

   14. JRJoe Rogan27:20

       (laughs)

   15. GLGraham Linehan27:20

       And Alex Jones was interested in the same story. And he might... I s-

   16. JRJoe Rogan27:24

       Oh (laughs) .

   17. GLGraham Linehan27:24

       I think I sent the link to you, Jamie. But like... Oh yeah, here it is.

   18. JRJoe Rogan27:28

       Alex Jones finds Graham Linehan on a lesbian app.

   19. GLGraham Linehan27:29

       (laughs) That's, that's me.

   20. NANarrator27:30

       I'm gonna be honest with you.

   21. GLGraham Linehan27:32

       (laughs)

   22. NANarrator27:32

       I'm not usually for transvestites and stuff.

   23. GLGraham Linehan27:36

       (laughs)

   24. NANarrator27:36

       But this one here, this is a...

   25. GLGraham Linehan27:38

       (laughs)

   26. NANarrator27:38

       Oh, and you see the symbol they've got here? You s- you know what that symbol is right there? Yeah.

   27. GLGraham Linehan27:43

       Uh-

   28. NANarrator27:44

       The symbols all mean something.

   29. JRJoe Rogan27:45

       What does that symbol mean?

   30. GLGraham Linehan27:46

       I don't know (laughs) .
10. 35:37 – 47:15

    Why debate feels impossible: language games, press complicity, and fear dynamics

    1. GLGraham Linehan35:37

       One of the main reasons is that the language of this movement is so deliberately obscure. Like, they did a poll recently, they found out that when people were talking about trans women in- in women's sports, a lot of people, I- I think the majority of people, I'm not sure what the percentages were, but the majority of people thought they were talking about trans identified females in women's sports.

    2. JRJoe Rogan35:59

       Oh, boy.

    3. GLGraham Linehan36:00

       Yeah. And in fact, even now, when you say trans women, some people are thinking trans men. You know, and I have to tell p- I h- I have to sometimes tell people the way to do it is think trans means opposite. So, if it's trans man, it's a woman. If it's a trans woman, it's a man. That's all it means. It just means opposite. And so, this language, which is- is constantly being used, if you see a press report about a, a, you know, this happens all the time. You see a press report that says something like ... I saw a great one that said something like, "Woman, uh, takes cocaine and then kills Alsatian," or something like this. And i- i- i- it's only that we know, it's only that me and the feminists who are fighting this know that it's a man, that tell me it's a man. Every other, every other person reading that newspaper thinks they're talking about a woman.

    4. JRJoe Rogan36:44

       It happens all the time. It's happened here.

    5. GLGraham Linehan36:46

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan36:46

       It's h- it's happened here when a trans person has done something, they call it a she-

    7. GLGraham Linehan36:49

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan36:49

       ... but it's a man that did it.

    9. GLGraham Linehan36:51

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan36:52

        Yeah. It's- it's very strange. It's just-

    11. GLGraham Linehan36:54

        And it's the press. It's the press are, uh, I mean, really the, when you say, "Why isn't it possible to be talked about?" It's because the press are helping confuse people, you know? The press are actually aiding ... Like, if you get a pedophile and you report him to be a man, oh, sorry, a woman, when he's actually a man, then i- i- i- i- it's even harder to- to step back and go, "We shouldn't have done that." Because you've actually, you've actually already committed a terrible sin against journalism.

    12. JRJoe Rogan37:23

        Right.

    13. GLGraham Linehan37:23

        You know? You're not telling the truth.

    14. JRJoe Rogan37:25

        You're not being accurate. Yeah.

    15. GLGraham Linehan37:26

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan37:27

        And it, it's just so strange that this is so potent that it allows people to give up those, th- give up their journalistic integrity.

    17. GLGraham Linehan37:34

        Yeah. It's- it's extraordi- uh, but some of them don't even have any t- f- for the first, uh, in the first place. A lot of ... Like, one of the things that happened when I was, uh, started talking about this, is I started noticing, like, there was a magazine in Eng- England called Total Film, and that was calling me a bigot. And all these different ... And my old magazines that I worked for were calling me a bigot. And then you see photographs with the guys, and it's always, you know, they've always got black fingernail polish and they think they're a new kind of human.

    18. JRJoe Rogan37:59

        (laughs)

    19. GLGraham Linehan37:59

        You know? It's like, "You're not a new type of human being. If you were-"

    20. JRJoe Rogan38:02

        And the thing about the internet is it allowed them to all group up.

    21. GLGraham Linehan38:05

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan38:06

        Whereas before the internet, th- it's a very small percentage of people that have autogynephilia or that, you know-

    23. GLGraham Linehan38:12

        Sure.

    24. JRJoe Rogan38:13

        ... fall into those categories, and we've always kicked those people out of women's rooms. And this is one of the really important things when you're talking about like, trans bigotry. Um, it's only about men. It's not about trans men.

    25. GLGraham Linehan38:27

        Oh.

    26. JRJoe Rogan38:27

        No, no one cares.

    27. GLGraham Linehan38:28

        Well, here's the thing, right? Joe-

    28. JRJoe Rogan38:29

        Trans men going into the men's room, who cares?

    29. GLGraham Linehan38:31

        First of all, first of all, right? This, that's one of the earliest, kind of, um, smears against the feminists fighting this. Who are all in the UK by the way, left-wing women. Classic left-wing, environmental, environmentalist-

    30. JRJoe Rogan38:44

        Kook.
11. 47:15 – 1:03:27

    Medical stakes and institutional failures: WPATH, puberty blockers, and detransitioners

    1. GLGraham Linehan47:15

       that this has been going on for years. That's the second-most shocking story I know in this...... fight. Uh, will I just tell you this first one?

    2. JRJoe Rogan47:23

       Sure.

    3. GLGraham Linehan47:24

       Okay. You know WPATH?

    4. JRJoe Rogan47:26

       WPATH. What is that?

    5. GLGraham Linehan47:27

       WPATH is meant to be the world leader for trans healthcare. It is where the whole world gets their orders for how to treat trans people. Okay? It is- (laughs) I, I, I- this is going to blow you away, Joe. So, there's a, there's a woman named Mia Hughes, and she published a piece called, uh, she published a study called, uh, The WPATH Files. It hasn't been reported on anywhere. No one is talking about it. It's not a, it's, it, it came and went without, without causing barely a ripple. She found out that WPATH, which briefly tried to make eunuch a gender identity, right? She found out that they were linking to a website called the Eunuch Archives. And the Eunuch Archives is mainly a repository of about, I don't know, I don't have it written down, but it's something like 8,000 short stories, something like that. And they're just pornography about people cutting their dicks off.

    6. JRJoe Rogan48:26

       Geez.

    7. GLGraham Linehan48:26

       WPATH linked to this site. Not only that, but f- something like 40% of the stories are tagged minor. Okay? So, these are the people who are cutting off k- young men's dicks, and they are sharing erotic pornography about cutting off young men's dicks. And, and I, uh, Jamie has all the links. This may sound that I'm pulling it out of my ass because it's so hard to believe. That's another problem we have. Some of these stories are so hard to believe that it's-

    8. JRJoe Rogan48:58

       And it's so hard to inform people, because you're only gonna hear about something like this on a podcast.

    9. GLGraham Linehan49:02

       Yeah. Exactly. The, the press won't report on it. And when you think about ... And BBC, the BBC deliberately ignores, ignores this. The BBC is outrageous on this issue. But, um, but-

    10. JRJoe Rogan49:13

        But look what they did with Jimmy Savile.

    11. GLGraham Linehan49:15

        Oh, yeah, yeah. But this is like-

    12. JRJoe Rogan49:16

        Forever.

    13. GLGraham Linehan49:17

        But this is almost worse than Jimmy Savile because there's more kids being hurt. You know?

    14. JRJoe Rogan49:21

        Ugh.

    15. GLGraham Linehan49:21

        And, and the U- UK is addicted to ignoring scandals and to hurting, you know, to allowing children to be hurt. You know, what, what's his name? Keir Starmer, the, our, our, the, the UK Prime Minister. When he came in, he said he would end the culture wars. He hasn't ended the culture wars. He hides from them while ordinary people still have to fight in court, people like me and, and, and various women who are fighting this nonsense. He's an absolute coward on this issue. But the thing about the WPATH Files, is WPATH, this place that's sharing paedophilic castration pornography, is, is, is the world leader on trans healthcare. Okay? They're the ones that are bowed to on everything in this, and they're the reason why doctors all over the world are giving these, uh, protocols to kids, because there's a thing called the chain of trust that Mia Hughes writes about, which is an ear, nose, and throat specialist has to, has to believe that other doctors know what they're doing. And they have to believe that the, the head of, uh, any particular discipline knows what they're saying. And what's happening with WPATH is they're issuing all this stuff, and it's all just crazy nonsense. One, one thing in the WPATH, uh, files they found out was, there was one letter from, I think, uh, one of the doctors associated with WPATH. And she said, "I've only ever refused a, a transition, a transition diagnosis once, and that's when the patient was having a ... That's because the patient had a psychotic episode in my office." That's the only reason she didn't say, "Yeah, you're a man," because she was having a psychotic episode. They were try-

    16. JRJoe Rogan50:58

        (laughs)

    17. GLGraham Linehan50:58

        They, they tried to transition a homeless guy. So, when you think about it, he has the surgery, and the next day he's back in the streets with a wound that needs to be cleaned. They tried to transition a homeless guy. That's the WPATH Files. And b- it's the root-

    18. JRJoe Rogan51:12

        So, what does ... Is it their goal to just transition anybody?

    19. GLGraham Linehan51:15

        (laughs) It is, it's purely a kind of ideological insanity. Like, one of the, one of the people who, who is involved in this, I can't ... uh, her name always jumps out of my head. S- I can't remember her name, but, but she suggested that a baby who fiddles with the buttons on their baby grow is trans, because they're, they're indicating they don't like this baby grow (laughs) . They want to wear a male or whatever, you know?

    20. JRJoe Rogan51:40

        Oh, my God.

    21. GLGraham Linehan51:40

        That woman was involved in the Satanic Panic scandal. So, she's moved from one insane, um, uh, uh, you know, mass delusion to another.

    22. JRJoe Rogan51:50

        What was the Satanic Panic scandal?

    23. GLGraham Linehan51:52

        Oh, do you not know this? This was like '80s, I think, in the middle of, in kind of Midwestern America. Uh, there was a lot of, um, places that suddenly, suddenly started believing in, in cults that were worshipping the devil and having sex with children. And the thing about it was it was before the internet, so it didn't actually spread that far. You know? There were a few towns where it broke out. Do you remember that three kids who were in jail for years for something they didn't do, and they nearly tried to kill them, and it was found, and they were just goths, you know? Stuff like that. And it didn't break out of Middle America because the internet wasn't there.

    24. JRJoe Rogan52:25

        Mm-hmm.

    25. GLGraham Linehan52:26

        But I have to think now, if you had, if the Satanic sp- scandal broke out again, you would certainly know about it-

    26. JRJoe Rogan52:31

        And-

    27. GLGraham Linehan52:31

        ... because it would be all over the world.

    28. JRJoe Rogan52:33

        And this person was involved in this?

    29. GLGraham Linehan52:35

        Yeah. Yeah. Same, some per- it was something to do, she was something to do with a military base. Um, oh, I wish I could remember her name. She, she, she, as I say, she did this thing about, um, uh, babies popping their mini, their, popping the buttons on their thing, you know, which is ... And it's-

    30. JRJoe Rogan52:53

        So, this is a crazy person?
12. 1:03:27 – 1:11:20

    UK governance and enforcement: tribunals, police training, and institutional capture

    1. GLGraham Linehan1:03:27

       You know, they are, they, they are absolutely hypnotized by this, and they're fully convinced that it is just like gay rights and that it's, it, they have to be careful because... I mean, one of the things that's happened, for instance, with the police in the UK is that a few years ago, uh, there was a, a young kid murdered by some racists, Black kid ra- murdered by some racists. And I think, I think it was called the MacPherson report came out that, that described the police as institutionally racist. And they, they probably were, uh, in that way that all cops were racist at one point, you know? Or, or at least, you know, n- n- very much not, uh, right on. But anyway, it was a big scandal. The poli- it had this convulsive effect on the police. And then the police just flipped and they started putting on pride colors on their faces and, and marching with pride.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:04:14

       (laughs)

    3. GLGraham Linehan1:04:15

       And, and re- and I genuinely think that, that there are police who are complicit. I, I, uh, in fact, I sent a video, maybe Jamie can pull it up. But I sent a, a video of the police actually walking away from a group of kettled women. The, uh, trans activists had kettled them in this small space. Their back was up against a railing, and there was a huge crowd of, of ANTIFA type guys screaming at these women. And about four or five police keeping the ANTIFA guys from the women. And I, I arrived, and I saw them walking away. I saw about six, seven policemen walking away from it, you know? And I was like, "What the hell's going on?" So I think British police are using trans activists to scare women out of fighting for their rights, because they know that if women, uh, if women, uh, gather to meet, trans activists will definitely be there to, uh, hurt them or, or harass them.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:09

       You really think that? You don't think that it's just they're scared of the, the trans activists?

    5. GLGraham Linehan1:05:14

       No, because they've been advised for years by Stonewall, which was the big gay rights organization in the UK, that these women are bigots, and that these women are actually far right. And, you know, and the police believe this stuff because they've had it as training for years.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:29

       So tha- their training is that these women that are fighting for women's rights, these women are bigots.

    7. GLGraham Linehan1:05:33

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:34

       And we should let the ANTIFA people have at them?

    9. GLGraham Linehan1:05:36

       Oh, they wouldn't say that officially, but I believe that's what's happening. I believe they're basically using ANTIFA to control these women.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:42

        The, you know, the, the flip side of this is ugly.... when people rise up against something like this, it gets real ugly and real violent. And that's what scares me the most.

    11. GLGraham Linehan1:05:53

        Oh, one of the things we're, we're, we're trying to head off is the backlash against transsexuals and gay people who have nothing to do with this, you know?

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:06:00

        Gay people, in particular. There's a lot of my friends that are gay that do not like any of this movement.

    13. GLGraham Linehan1:06:05

        Yeah. No, they-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:06:06

        They don't, do not like any of it.

    15. GLGraham Linehan1:06:07

        It's a homophobic movement. Have you ever heard of anything as ho-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:06:10

        Right.

    17. GLGraham Linehan1:06:10

        ... more homophobic than a, a lesbian with a penis? It's homophobia, that's all it is. And, and for some reason, people have just been held in this kind of, (breathes deeply) you know, tractor beam where they're just kind of, like, going along with it, and they're not questioning it. I guess they're worried that what happened to people like me will happen to them, but there's increasingly less of an excuse now. I mean, J- J- John Oliver and Jon Stewart both said on their programs that puberty blockers were reversible. That is a dangerous lie, you know?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:06:42

        Well, I don't understand Jon Stewart saying that.

    19. GLGraham Linehan1:06:44

        (laughs)

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:44

        I, I have to assume that Jon Stewart was misinformed.

    21. GLGraham Linehan1:06:47

        Everyone's-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:48

        I have to s-

    23. GLGraham Linehan1:06:48

        ... misinformed because-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:48

        But I have to assume that Jon didn't look into this because he's super reasonable and very intelligent.

    25. GLGraham Linehan1:06:53

        Absolutely, and that's why it's-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:54

        That's what's scary.

    27. GLGraham Linehan1:06:55

        ... so crushing when someone like that says something like this. It is simply not true that puberty-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:07:00

        It's not true.

    29. GLGraham Linehan1:07:00

        ... blockers are reversible.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:07:00

        It has a direct impact on the development of the child's penis to the point where they might not ever-

Episode duration: 3:07:58